Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're worried
Speaker 1: we might not have enough screens or subscriptions to watch
Speaker 1: all the college basketball conference tournaments this week. Why do
Speaker 1: streaming services limit the number of devices that can be
Speaker 1: logged into an account? And why do I only have
Speaker 1: one pair of eyes? It's Wednesday, March fifth, and on
Speaker 1: today's show, we'll be talking with ESPN and Anscape commentator
Speaker 1: Ari Chambers about the high quality hoops r alma mater,
Speaker 1: NC State is playing, her favorite to win this year's
Speaker 1: NCAA Championship, players who could take leaps in the WNBA
Speaker 1: thanks to their plan unrivaled, and her immense unique impact
Speaker 1: on the women's sports space. It's all coming up right
Speaker 1: after this, joining us now, she's a commentator for ESPN
Speaker 1: and Ascape covering all things women's sports. Back in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: she founded Highlight, her Bleacher reports multi channel portfolio brand
Speaker 1: focused on female athletes and teams, and she created the
Speaker 1: now ubiquitous phrase the WNBA is so important. A former
Speaker 1: Forbes Sports thirty Under thirty and an NC State grad
Speaker 1: still celebrating that big hoops win over Notre Dame, It's
Speaker 1: Ari Chambers what's up Ari?
Speaker 2: How packed first and foremost, Sarah, In case you didn't know,
Speaker 2: Conference champions, regular season, number one seed in ACC tournament,
Speaker 2: we're NC State around these parts as you can see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I figured I should start with that because we
Speaker 1: weren't going to get very far if I didn't ask
Speaker 1: you about that first. So your NC State team has
Speaker 1: this insane win over then number one Notre Dame. I
Speaker 1: believe you were in studio hosting a pregame. Someone told
Speaker 1: you to tuck away your wolf pack because you were
Speaker 1: making it so clear, which, by the way, hilarious phrase.
Speaker 1: Take us back to that, to that game and that upset.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I was like, why am I
Speaker 2: not in Raleigh? But then I thought about it, It's
Speaker 2: probably best I'm not in Raleigh. As journalists, we have
Speaker 2: to remove ourselves, right, remove our bias. But there's a
Speaker 2: certain sense of pride witnessing what Wes Moore has been
Speaker 2: able to do with this NC State team in the
Speaker 2: past decade that he's been there. I was there at
Speaker 2: the tail end of coach Kyo going into Kelly Harper
Speaker 2: days and so just to see the turnaround of the
Speaker 2: resurgence of North Carolina State has been great to witness.
Speaker 2: But going into the game pregame, talking to Sanaia Rivers,
Speaker 2: she was saying how the energy on campus was great.
Speaker 2: The students were camping out the night before, Coach West
Speaker 2: Moore is obviously up for Coach of the Year, and
Speaker 2: so outside of the basketball of it all, they were
Speaker 2: playing for something much greater. College game day doesn't come
Speaker 2: to NC State very often. It's something that they really
Speaker 2: cherished and they wanted to put on for their team.
Speaker 2: And a lot of times when we talk about collegiate basketball,
Speaker 2: pro basketball, basketball in general, urg sports in general, it
Speaker 2: goes beyond just the x's and o's and just it
Speaker 2: can be a pride thing, an ego thing, I'm going
Speaker 2: to protect my court thing, And that's what you saw
Speaker 2: with NC State going into the game. It's backcourt versus backcourt.
Speaker 2: Right it was Olivia Miles, Hannah Heldago, Sonny Sitchron, and
Speaker 2: then you have Ziah Snaya and honestly, Zoe throws at
Speaker 2: the top of Maddie Hayes. So you have those those
Speaker 2: big three versus big three within a quick conference and
Speaker 2: the pace is great. The athletes are great top to bottom,
Speaker 2: But what NC State was able to do is throw
Speaker 2: the first punch. Whenever you have a situation where two
Speaker 2: elite teams, who's said in the tempo, who was really
Speaker 2: getting out throwing that first punch. When I saw I
Speaker 2: think it was Azia Dans that three, I said, Oh,
Speaker 2: we're in for a good game. And it was one
Speaker 2: of the best games I've seen all year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a nine to zero double overtime run
Speaker 1: from NC State to hold off Notre Dame. They held
Speaker 1: the Irish scoreless for four minutes. This is just one
Speaker 1: of those games. Like you said that, it's about more
Speaker 1: than just the matchup, and it does probably help the
Speaker 1: team to learn that students are camping out and that
Speaker 1: it matters right and watching that in women's sports over
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, women's hoops in particular, where
Speaker 1: the women's games are as big of a deal on
Speaker 1: campus as the men's, where the lines are out the door.
Speaker 1: It's just such a different atmosphere than what I went
Speaker 1: to college viewing when you probably even went to college.
Speaker 2: See its true.
Speaker 1: And you know a perfect example of that is how
Speaker 1: hype the city of Los Angeles gets every time USC
Speaker 1: and UCLA meet. This is two programs on the rise,
Speaker 1: two programs full of superstars, and the city knows it.
Speaker 1: And you know, we're kind of getting used to celebrities
Speaker 1: sitting front row for women's hoops, whether it's college or pros.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't make it any less cool when we
Speaker 1: see it. Let's talk about USC Ucla. Ucla looked unbeatable
Speaker 1: for such a long stretch. They were sitting at the
Speaker 1: number one spot and USC owns them. Juju Watkins owns them.
Speaker 1: What do you make of the matchups that you've seen?
Speaker 2: So it was the battle arguably of the national player
Speaker 2: of the year. You have Lauren Betts on UCLA Juju
Speaker 2: Watkins on USC, both very talented players, both very different ways,
Speaker 2: different positions. Lauren Betts draws so much defensive attention in
Speaker 2: the pancas what can you do? Triple teamer and the like,
Speaker 2: hoping the best right, she still had a good scoring night,
Speaker 2: and Kiki Rice really showed up for UCLA. But when
Speaker 2: Juju got out there, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's the cross city rivalry. Juju
Speaker 2: shows up in the biggest way against the crosstown rival
Speaker 2: She just does. And when she shows up in that way,
Speaker 2: she allows other teammates to step up. She shows them
Speaker 2: that hey, we're here, it doesn't matter if it's our
Speaker 2: court or not. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna do what
Speaker 2: I need to do with the ball. I'm gonna open
Speaker 2: it up for you and draw that attention and make
Speaker 2: sure that you get your shots off too, and then
Speaker 2: just set the standard for what USC basketball is. Juju
Speaker 2: was so effective on both ends of the floor it
Speaker 2: was nuts. I remember it was what third quarter when
Speaker 2: she was going up got blocked, Then the next two
Speaker 2: possessions got two blocks. So it's just it's effort on
Speaker 2: both sides of the court. It's having your superstar player
Speaker 2: be a superstar at the right time, and USC clicking
Speaker 2: going into March Madness saying, hey, I feel like we're
Speaker 2: a little underestimated. Even though we've been comfortably in the
Speaker 2: top ten all season, we're still underestimated because we still
Speaker 2: have a bone to pick because we're still beating UCLA, right.
Speaker 2: So that's what I think. I think that Juju on
Speaker 2: both ends doesn't get talked about enough. Like her defensive
Speaker 2: prowess is there. Yes, offensively, she can get a shot
Speaker 2: from every spot on the floor that you could possibly thinks.
Speaker 2: She's soky smooth when she's handling the ball. She can
Speaker 2: drive and get the ball in. She can you know,
Speaker 2: pull from rain, she can get the midi going. But defensively,
Speaker 2: especially if you pope them pair, she's swatting your thing.
Speaker 2: She's gonna pick your pockets. And it's exactly what we
Speaker 2: saw with going back to Notre Dame. Hannah Heldago has
Speaker 2: been historically want to do that, but Juju brought that
Speaker 2: against Ucla.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thirty points this last time out. She's put up
Speaker 1: thirty or more in all four games against UCLA, So
Speaker 1: she gets up for those matchups. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of the regular season when UCLA was winning games, the
Speaker 1: thought was there are only so many teams that have
Speaker 1: a big that can compete with Lauren Betts and that
Speaker 1: I looked ahead to the tournament and thought, Ucla is
Speaker 1: going to be tough to be because of that size
Speaker 1: and because if you decide to just keep feeding her,
Speaker 1: who's going to step up? But we've seen a couple
Speaker 1: teams figure out how to strategize to slow her down
Speaker 1: and to take out Ucla. When you look at all
Speaker 1: these teams now seasons basically, don't do this.
Speaker 2: Don't do this, team Sarah, keep going, but don't do it.
Speaker 1: Who is the real number one in the country.
Speaker 2: The parody is so prominent within the landscape right now,
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to cop out. I'm going to answer.
Speaker 2: I think the number one team right now is different
Speaker 2: from who can perform well in a final four. Right So,
Speaker 2: you look at the South Carolinas of the world. They
Speaker 2: are made for that moment. They are made for a
Speaker 2: final four, They're made for a championship game because they're
Speaker 2: accustomed to it. This is one of the winningest classes
Speaker 2: that has come through South Carolina. Don Staley knows how
Speaker 2: to coach in big moments. These players know how to
Speaker 2: play in big moments. I have them as a final fourteen,
Speaker 2: not only with what the pieces they have, but the
Speaker 2: experience they have within this type of run. Texas has
Speaker 2: been impressing me. I again, just Maddy Booker worried Harman
Speaker 2: being not injured anymore. Just the pieces that Texas has
Speaker 2: has been strong and they have kind of been flying,
Speaker 2: flying under the radar because you know, they're sharing a
Speaker 2: conference with the usc s and LSU's of the world,
Speaker 2: and so South Carolina and Texas are the ones I
Speaker 2: have my eye on and I want to see again.
Speaker 2: This is not your question, Sarah. I'm so sorry for
Speaker 2: doing this. I hate to be this person, but I
Speaker 2: want to see how Notre Dame takes the end of
Speaker 2: what conference was and turns it around for themselves, if
Speaker 2: they can turn it around, because Neil Ivey said, this
Speaker 2: is not a chess piece thing, this is a will
Speaker 2: to win that we have lost within last week, and
Speaker 2: Sony Citron was sitting next to her at that press
Speaker 2: conference disappointed. She said that there's only so much you
Speaker 2: can do if you don't have the will to win again.
Speaker 2: They want to get back to their defensive identity. And
Speaker 2: then Hannah heldago, when you are offensively that strong and
Speaker 2: you don't see your shots dropping, you get frustrated. But
Speaker 2: that frustration is felt within your entire roster. So how
Speaker 2: can you harness that and have the maturity to go
Speaker 2: through a postseason when the end of the conference did
Speaker 2: not necessarily go your way? And so that's what I'm
Speaker 2: looking forward to in March, Madness. But to answer your question,
Speaker 2: I would not put money against South Carolina, especially with
Speaker 2: the senior class that it's going through. I have them
Speaker 2: in a championship game. I want to see Connecticut and
Speaker 2: their big three. Is there going to be justice for Paige?
Speaker 2: And this is exactly what you want in page Az
Speaker 2: and Sarah when they're all healthy, they're one of the
Speaker 2: most dominant three headed monsters that exist in college basketball.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an unfair question.
Speaker 2: There's like you didn't answer at all.
Speaker 1: I mean, you didn't answer, but it was unfair. There's
Speaker 1: so much parity. But also to your point about shots,
Speaker 1: there are players that if they get hot, that team
Speaker 1: will not lose, and that same exact team could lose
Speaker 1: by twenty if someone's Jay is off because there's that
Speaker 1: much talent out there and they're and and great coaching, right,
Speaker 1: we're talking about elite level coaching to strategize against the
Speaker 1: different strengths. And I'm more confused heading into this tournament
Speaker 1: than I've ever been in terms of trying to try
Speaker 1: to make picks. It's going to be it's going to
Speaker 1: be really difficult. I love chaos, though, I mean the
Speaker 1: chaos is fun.
Speaker 2: I think that chaos is great. I don't know the
Speaker 2: brackets I mean, is they're a brocketbuster.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like on the men's side,
Speaker 1: I like chaos because I don't care about any of them,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, this is fun. On the women's side,
Speaker 1: I invested in some of these players get getting their due,
Speaker 1: getting far enough for people to recognize how great they are,
Speaker 1: getting the benefit of what it means to go deep
Speaker 1: in a tournament and how fans start to recognize you
Speaker 1: and know you, and it helps with your sponsorships, and
Speaker 1: it helps with your you know how you're going to
Speaker 1: succeed at the pros. So it's harder for me in
Speaker 1: the women's game to embrace chaos.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but how do you choose which one, Sarah?
Speaker 2: How do you choose like this one? This one? I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: I know I turn into one of those. I hope
Speaker 1: everybody has fun people. It's a real problem.
Speaker 2: Go for.
Speaker 1: Go sports, right, Are there players you think we're not
Speaker 1: talking about enough this season?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean we have the Tonay laps into the world,
Speaker 2: who has been.
Speaker 1: She's been leading the league in scoring nuts right all
Speaker 1: season long. But her team isn't the one we talk about, ye.
Speaker 2: Even though they're like the top twenty five, which is
Speaker 2: confusing itself. Why we don't talk about anyways, but I
Speaker 2: want to shine light on somebody that transferred from NC
Speaker 2: State and took it upon herself to go to an HBCU,
Speaker 2: Diamond Johnson, and let's just talk about Norfolk State in general.
Speaker 2: They have twenty six straight home wins and that leads
Speaker 2: D one basketball. We don't talk about that. That's the
Speaker 2: longest ACTIVITY one home winning streak and the third consecutive
Speaker 2: season with twenty five wins, and so just that that
Speaker 2: excellence alone, and this is Diamond has transferred. She has
Speaker 2: really been an impact player on that program. She's the
Speaker 2: only active D one player with more than two thousand points,
Speaker 2: six hundred rebounds, three hundred niney assist and three hundred steals.
Speaker 2: So she's stacking the stat sheet. She's so impactful for
Speaker 2: that Norfolk State team and just being able to have
Speaker 2: a homecoming of sorts, right going to an HBCU, going
Speaker 2: where you feel like you're appreciated in producing the results
Speaker 2: you have. We don't talk about Diamond Johnson enough. And
Speaker 2: that's just the landscape of women's basketball, not only having Perry. Yes,
Speaker 2: we can't have your attention everywhere, but I really implore
Speaker 2: people to pay attention to HBCU sports more years ago
Speaker 2: we had somebody who was averaging a quadruple double, right,
Speaker 2: we have we have like the Angel Jackson's of the
Speaker 2: world who are playing in Athletes Unlimited. So there are
Speaker 2: players that come from that just have such rich history.
Speaker 2: When I was in college, Hampton was running things. So
Speaker 2: I just implore people to check out HBCUs a little
Speaker 2: bit more. Diamond Johnson is killing it well.
Speaker 1: There are going to be a lot of teams and
Speaker 1: players to check out and get familiar with ahead of
Speaker 1: the tournament because it's going to be absolutely wild. We
Speaker 1: had to take a quick break. When we come back
Speaker 1: more with Ari Chambers, let's talk about unrivaled because you've
Speaker 1: done some drop ins down in Miami or else we
Speaker 1: call it Tampa Bay, and you've checked in on this.
Speaker 1: What's your biggest takeaway so far from this first season,
Speaker 1: this first iteration of this thing. We didn't quite know
Speaker 1: what to expect from before it started.
Speaker 2: My biggest takeaway is people are enthusiastic to invest in
Speaker 2: women's sports. They created this league rapidly, like the most
Speaker 2: expeditioned way, but got buy in from so many people.
Speaker 2: And that shout out to Kirby Porter, Chloe Pablick, obviously
Speaker 2: Stewie and Fee, but just the out to this out
Speaker 2: the ones who were really behind this and ideated what
Speaker 2: it could be and listen to the players as they
Speaker 2: signed on, we want this. Everything that the players request
Speaker 2: from the front office of Unrivaled, it gets done. And
Speaker 2: so it's instead of a oh, we can't do this,
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, we got you. And so that's the
Speaker 2: whole theme of Unrivaled. I'm excited about the player buy
Speaker 2: in initially from it. I'm excited about the intrigue that
Speaker 2: the audience has. They're really curious about what's going on there.
Speaker 2: Three three on three is not going to be everybody's
Speaker 2: cup of tea. That's just the truth of the matter.
Speaker 2: It's and it's a very different format than FOBA three
Speaker 2: x three and so that's an adjustment. That's what I
Speaker 2: had to adjust to because it's a modified full court
Speaker 2: and it's just a very different style of play than
Speaker 2: what you would see at the Olympic years or FOBA.
Speaker 2: So just generally players are satisfied because they see their
Speaker 2: needs being met. It's a it's a great way to
Speaker 2: stay stateside during the off season and a great way
Speaker 2: to develop around other stars players so that you can
Speaker 2: keep your skill set refined and honestly more attention and detail.
Speaker 2: When it comes to three on three in the way
Speaker 2: they're doing it, there's no room for help. It's a
Speaker 2: full court situation, so you have to mock in defensively.
Speaker 2: Then you have to be in shape enough to run
Speaker 2: back and forth like that. And unfortunately, because of the
Speaker 2: structure of the game, some players have faced injuries so
Speaker 2: they're getting back. But like just in general, it keeps
Speaker 2: you in shape off season. The level competition is high,
Speaker 2: you have to sharpen your skills in order to produce.
Speaker 2: And then the camaraderie within the teams.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you talk about sharpening the skills. I think that
Speaker 1: there are players who are going to get back to
Speaker 1: the w significantly improved as a result of having this
Speaker 1: opportunity to be extremely focused on specific skill sets that
Speaker 1: aren't as important in the five on five game and
Speaker 1: or that are harder to concentrate on when you're still
Speaker 1: working on you know, going out to a foreign country,
Speaker 1: learning how to communicate, learning how to work with a
Speaker 1: whole new team, all this other stuff like this is
Speaker 1: a very constant rated opportunity, and I wonder if there's
Speaker 1: players that you think specifically you're going to notice a
Speaker 1: difference because of the work and the improvement that they
Speaker 1: did at Unrivaled.
Speaker 2: I think Ray Burrell and Aliah Edwards both really stick
Speaker 2: out to me in that way. And it's just with
Speaker 2: Ray Burrell. She has faced injuries in her first few
Speaker 2: years of like her last years of college, early years
Speaker 2: of pro and so getting the reps on court and
Speaker 2: in showcasing what you can do is great. Aliah Edwards,
Speaker 2: she's a Canadian Olympian if anything. Returning to the Mystics,
Speaker 2: she has a whole new fan base from her performances
Speaker 2: at Unrivaled. You have a Chelsea Gray who people did
Speaker 2: not recognize as the Point God, which is confusing in
Speaker 2: his own right. I employ everybody to look up their history.
Speaker 2: But she's back in full swing because she's been reading
Speaker 2: what we've been saying online by we and min y'all,
Speaker 2: because I didn't forget right. So like the Point God's
Speaker 2: back in full form, being able to find her teammates
Speaker 2: and just showing why she's the Point God. Skyler digg
Speaker 2: and Smith is another one. If anything, it just reminded
Speaker 2: us how she's a dog and she Skyler has such
Speaker 2: a way she just does not like to lose, and
Speaker 2: every possession she's locked in, every single like, no matter
Speaker 2: if it's good, bad, or ugly or pretty, she is
Speaker 2: going to be just as focused possession out the possession,
Speaker 2: which is a big factor of why the Lunar Owls
Speaker 2: are in the position that they're in. But she's going
Speaker 2: to bring that into the league and you see the
Speaker 2: expectation of excellence that can be within the WNBA because
Speaker 2: of the competition displayed at unrivaled.
Speaker 1: Angel Reese is also an interesting one to watch because
Speaker 1: she's been working with Lisa Leslie. There in the podcast
Speaker 1: that they did where Lisa was just like flat out
Speaker 1: like I don't like how you shoot your layups, and
Speaker 1: we're going to work on that and you're going to
Speaker 1: get better. I think she clearly already has such a
Speaker 1: huge bag, but she's going to be able to refine
Speaker 1: that there.
Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing her up, because you know, I
Speaker 2: look at Angel, she has everything and I'm so proud
Speaker 2: of her. And then I'm even more proud of the
Speaker 2: fact that she wants to get better basketball wise, because
Speaker 2: Angel is making a concerted effort to sharpen those skills,
Speaker 2: like we were saying, and to recognize the Vets. Angel
Speaker 2: has always been like this. Angel has always gone up
Speaker 2: to Vets after games or during downtime saying, how can
Speaker 2: I get better? And to learn from the Lisa Leslie herself,
Speaker 2: to learn from the trainers that are made available at
Speaker 2: Unrivaled so that you can prove yourself right. I don't
Speaker 2: think Angel cares about the noise around her. Is just to
Speaker 2: prove herself right and to get sharper so that she
Speaker 2: can continue to solidify herself as a solid player within
Speaker 2: the league, not just businesswoman, but a solid athlete within
Speaker 2: this league. Is a great thing, and you can only
Speaker 2: benefit from Angel Reese playing better basketball, and she is
Speaker 2: playing better basketball.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see her come back to this guy
Speaker 1: and see what she's working with, especially with a veteran
Speaker 1: point guarden Courtney van der Slute. Watching her play an
Speaker 1: Unrivaled with someone that knows how to work with her
Speaker 1: and get the best out of her has been really cool.
Speaker 1: So I'm excited for that. Are there players who have
Speaker 1: surprised you in this format? Obviously the one v one
Speaker 1: showed us a whole lot of bigs with more handles
Speaker 1: than we expected, more endurance than we expected. I thought
Speaker 1: for sure, like obviously the size was going to help
Speaker 1: them defensively and in terms of covering court space. But
Speaker 1: I was surprised at how fit the bigs are and
Speaker 1: how difficult they made it on some of these littles
Speaker 1: with great handles that couldn't get a single shot off
Speaker 1: or couldn't get it going. And I wonder if anyone
Speaker 1: surprised you the same way, or if you think they're
Speaker 1: going to go back to their teams and it's going
Speaker 1: to be a little bit clear that we need to
Speaker 1: make some space for them on the win to get
Speaker 1: to get it done.
Speaker 2: I mean, so I think it's all of that. I
Speaker 2: think that I couldn't confidently say that they were going
Speaker 2: to be able to do that at the beginning of
Speaker 2: the season. I think the unrivaled has whipped them in
Speaker 2: a shape, okay, and like you're going with the mentality
Speaker 2: of like what you're used to in five on five,
Speaker 2: but then you've been playing three on three and knowing
Speaker 2: that you have to get your fitness there, and so
Speaker 2: when it came time for one on one, they were
Speaker 2: they were ready to do it. I'm really pleasantly surprised
Speaker 2: with I'm gonna say, Brittany Grinder. I know that she's
Speaker 2: gonna take some of the questionable shots from the three
Speaker 2: point are you know why not because it is unrivaled.
Speaker 2: But as far as shape and just really being able
Speaker 2: to continue to move, I'm proud of her for I
Speaker 2: see a week over a week improvement with that. Nefisa,
Speaker 2: I mean, she's just nuts. I anticipated her business. I
Speaker 2: mean I anticipated that like this. This is not a
Speaker 2: shock to Mefisa. It's your she founded the league. She's
Speaker 2: coming off of the finals where she doesn't like the
Speaker 2: results of it, and she has a chance to showcase
Speaker 2: her her talents on a very microscopic level, like you
Speaker 2: can hone in on these players in a way that
Speaker 2: you can't macroscopic. Bag ye period Sonfisa is the one
Speaker 2: that I'm like, oh, you wanted to prove to people
Speaker 2: you are who you say you are, and she done that.
Speaker 1: And she is, Yeah, what do you think other leagues
Speaker 1: could learn other than to your point? I obviously the
Speaker 1: investment is there. They also benefit a ton from You
Speaker 1: don't have to pay for travel, you don't have to
Speaker 1: pay for hotels you don't have to pay for, you know,
Speaker 1: facility space for each team, all that other stuff they've
Speaker 1: they've made the most out of figuring out how to
Speaker 1: create this home base that lets them spend on the
Speaker 1: other things that players want outside of maybe investment. What
Speaker 1: do you think other leagues in women's sports or otherwise
Speaker 1: could learn from Unrivaled?
Speaker 2: Well, I want to touch on what you just said
Speaker 2: about them not having to do all these extra things.
Speaker 2: That was my frustration with the general public when Unrivaled
Speaker 2: first got announced of like, hey, w NBA needs to
Speaker 2: do this. I'm like, you don't realize what the WNBA.
Speaker 2: It's a team by team basis. These are team decisions.
Speaker 2: They have to travel, they're not all one location. It's
Speaker 2: a league that started in ninety seven, so the novelty
Speaker 2: of it is not going to be the same. But
Speaker 2: what can learn is that once you get player buy in,
Speaker 2: you can create whatever content you want. What I love
Speaker 2: about Unrivaled is that marketing wise, they really make a
Speaker 2: concerted effort to do the full team, even though they
Speaker 2: do only have six on their team, a full team
Speaker 2: showcase of personalities and storytelling. They ask they let the
Speaker 2: athletes do the trends that they want, which again can
Speaker 2: be a conflict when it comes league side or team
Speaker 2: side on the w n B a perspective because of
Speaker 2: commercial use music, it's a whole different thing, but just
Speaker 2: in general, the marketing just showcasing the full scope of
Speaker 2: players social media being a little looser with that network
Speaker 2: deal negotiations, and I understand that's a very unique perspective
Speaker 2: with negotiating with WBD with that, but they really lucked out,
Speaker 2: and it's a great luckout, if you can call it that,
Speaker 2: because they were paid what their work. And I think.
Speaker 1: There's discovery for those who are unfamiliar with all talk.
Speaker 2: But just making sure that going for the leagues that
Speaker 2: are to come are the leagues that are existing. Knowing
Speaker 2: that women's sports valuation is up high, knowing that you
Speaker 2: can sell this merch you can market them well. You can.
Speaker 2: You can really lean into your player personalities, you can
Speaker 2: hype it up. Hype it up. If nothing else, HiPE
Speaker 2: it up so you can make it appealing to the audience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think their creativity was off the charts and
Speaker 1: the way that they introduced each player or each team,
Speaker 1: all that was huge. But your content point is a
Speaker 1: massive one. It's something I talked to fee about when
Speaker 1: she was on the show, which is if you get
Speaker 1: the players to believe in what you're doing and think
Speaker 1: you're doing it in a way that's good, they are
Speaker 1: more willing to give you their time and effort. And
Speaker 1: you see the way that they are having fun creating
Speaker 1: content for the GRAM for the different team sites. It
Speaker 1: feels different than in a lot of w spaces, and
Speaker 1: again there is more freedom, there is a different there's
Speaker 1: different rules, there's different sponsors, etc. But I think sometimes
Speaker 1: when there's less of a connection between ownership and players,
Speaker 1: there is less of a buying from the players to
Speaker 1: do whatever it takes to help build. And in this case,
Speaker 1: they have equity and they understand that the growth of
Speaker 1: Unrivaled is the growth of their piggy banks as well,
Speaker 1: so they feel very connected to those efforts. And you know,
Speaker 1: having been an owner of the Red Stars, I struggled
Speaker 1: sometimes with wanting the players to get more involved in
Speaker 1: helping their own cause. But I also understood that demanding
Speaker 1: of players without extra money for their time and effort
Speaker 1: is hard to do if they're not bought in on
Speaker 1: what you're doing. At the top and who you are
Speaker 1: at the top, and so it's an interesting question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been interesting to watch Unrivaled and how in sync
Speaker 1: every piece of it feels from top to bottom, which
Speaker 1: is what happens when you've got players running the show
Speaker 1: and players who know what other players want.
Speaker 2: I wonder what that looks like for the WNBA, though,
Speaker 2: like when you get back to your team, if individual
Speaker 2: games can re strategize how to do content with them,
Speaker 2: because I don't think that it's a lack of effort
Speaker 2: on the league side. I know for a fact it's
Speaker 2: not lack of effort on the league's side. And for teams,
Speaker 2: I'm sure they're doing what they can. But you do
Speaker 2: have to count in the away games. You do have
Speaker 2: to count in the fatigue. The overall it's just so much.
Speaker 2: It's so different. That's why you see an influx of
Speaker 2: content during media daytime, and then it kind of fees
Speaker 2: out because they're locked in.
Speaker 1: And they have lives, they have things to do. Right Unrivaled,
Speaker 1: I mean there are it is hard to compare in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, just because it's a very different situation.
Speaker 1: It's an eight week bubble versus this multi month thing.
Speaker 1: But there are some interesting things to look at and
Speaker 1: to learn from. You've been at this women's sports game forever,
Speaker 1: well before everybody else was on board. How does it
Speaker 1: feel for you personally to see this incredible growth in
Speaker 1: recent years. I'm curious, especially because I think it's awesome
Speaker 1: when people say to me, oh, Sarah, you were You've
Speaker 1: been doing this forever. You've been, you know, doing it
Speaker 1: at espnW for fifteen years. You were right, you were
Speaker 1: telling everybody. And it feels good, and it also feels
Speaker 1: bittersweet because it's like, yeah, if there had just been
Speaker 1: more of this investment and media attention and everything else,
Speaker 1: we could have been here so much sooner. So it's
Speaker 1: it's nice and it's also a little I.
Speaker 2: Told you yeah. And I don't want to come off
Speaker 2: sounding like a dark cloud or like Daria or something.
Speaker 2: Daria just want to make sure. I just want to
Speaker 2: make sure that when we have this surge of I
Speaker 2: want to invest, I want to invest, I want to
Speaker 2: want to buy into this, that it's sustained. That is
Speaker 2: what the word novelty keeps coming up to me. And
Speaker 2: it's just I want to make sure that the capitalizing
Speaker 2: off the moment is beyond the moment in the movement,
Speaker 2: it's literally just the norm. I want this to be
Speaker 2: the norm, not a movement, not a moment, but the norm, because,
Speaker 2: like you said, it's been a great thing. We've been
Speaker 2: telling people it's great, and I want to make sure
Speaker 2: that it stays innovative enough, or I want people to
Speaker 2: just put it in their everyday lives enough that we
Speaker 2: don't have to push and keep fighting and keep fighting
Speaker 2: to sustain what we have right now. So I'm proud
Speaker 2: that the old ceiling is the new floor, but I
Speaker 2: can't wait to see how we continue to build in
Speaker 2: the women's sports space and allow so much more opportunity
Speaker 2: to come. That's where I'm at with it. Also, not
Speaker 2: to get to I can take this there, but I
Speaker 2: want to make sure all women are protected. All women
Speaker 2: are protected, and so that's what I'm worried about, because
Speaker 2: when when a group of people are being targeted, that
Speaker 2: puts everything in women's sports that we've been working to
Speaker 2: achieve at risk. And so that's something that I'm going
Speaker 2: to be looking at for and fighting for forever.
Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't seem to recognize that
Speaker 1: they're very shortsighted in their pursuit of certain legislative goals,
Speaker 1: completely blind to the long term effects it can have
Speaker 1: on larger things, including just the existence of Title nine altogether.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also I think it sounds like you've ended up
Speaker 1: in a place that I've ended up, Which is why
Speaker 1: this show exists, Which is the understanding that it can't
Speaker 1: constantly be a novelty and a new unicorn that arrives
Speaker 1: that gets people fired up and interested and then they
Speaker 1: go away. It's about sustained knowledge and understanding of the games, players, leagues,
Speaker 1: and events. And we've been doing that for men's sports
Speaker 1: for one hundred years, and in women's sports. We fail
Speaker 1: so much as a media to give people consistent connective
Speaker 1: tissue to tie together to care about at the largest levels,
Speaker 1: not content creators like you that have been doing it forever,
Speaker 1: but at the largest levels. We drop in for championships,
Speaker 1: and we come back for the start of the season,
Speaker 1: and we miss everything in the middle, and then we
Speaker 1: ask why people aren't invested. And you don't need a
Speaker 1: novelty of a new superstar every five months if you
Speaker 1: have existing stars and rivalries and storylines and they used
Speaker 1: to play here and now they're here and all the
Speaker 1: other things that keep us invested on the men's side.
Speaker 1: That's what we need to provide at the best and
Speaker 1: highest level in the women's sports world for people for
Speaker 1: it to be sustainable. Is there something you think people
Speaker 1: are still getting wrong about women's sports or something you
Speaker 1: wish people knew or understood.
Speaker 2: I wish people knew that Title nine is at risk
Speaker 2: and that we have to continue to fight for women's equity,
Speaker 2: equality and resources. I wish people knew that you don't
Speaker 2: have to be reliant on megastorylines to be invested. I
Speaker 2: wish the people who want to be in our spaces
Speaker 2: Sarah know that they don't have to wait for their yes.
Speaker 2: They can tell the stories on their own. We have
Speaker 2: all the tools we need with social media your phones
Speaker 2: to be able to cover the sport in the way
Speaker 2: that we want to. There's so much room in space
Speaker 2: for everybody who's enthusiastic and passionate about this to be
Speaker 2: involved and to contribute, and so your contribution isn't based
Speaker 2: on major network backing. I want people to know that
Speaker 2: these athletes are human and they're also athletes, and we
Speaker 2: don't have to coddle them, but we also should not
Speaker 2: put them in a position to lose. It's our responsibility
Speaker 2: if you assume that, to continue to do the things
Speaker 2: we're doing, and those who are overconfident in the place
Speaker 2: of women's sports right now, I just I really want
Speaker 2: you to maintain that optimism and continue to be privy
Speaker 2: to what's going on in the sports landscape.
Speaker 1: Be vigilant. If you are listening and you care about
Speaker 1: this stuff and you're like, oh, but I don't know
Speaker 1: this or that, or I'm not connected to this. That
Speaker 1: Ari is the most incredible example of someone who is
Speaker 1: just like, this is something that matters to me, This
Speaker 1: is something people should care about. So I'm just going
Speaker 1: to start showing up and doing the work. And now
Speaker 1: you're with ESPN and you're traveling all over the world
Speaker 1: and you're just killing it, and you're so a great
Speaker 1: example of putting the work behind the passion and then
Speaker 1: seeing where that takes you, and so many people could
Speaker 1: learn from from that. Before I let you go, what's next?
Speaker 1: Because we focused on basketball, But I mean, girl, you're
Speaker 1: covering gymnastics, you show up for the cheerleading stuff, you're
Speaker 1: for brands like, do you have anything cool coming up?
Speaker 2: We should know about Well, first, y'all should know that
Speaker 2: gymnastics and cheer are my first love. Anyway, She's a
Speaker 2: basketball gally, but she's also a gym and cheergirly. I'm
Speaker 2: going right back down to Unrivaled, and then obviously we
Speaker 2: have March Madness chaos, but I never miss a gymnastics championship.
Speaker 2: I have some fun things playing with cheering gymnastics in April.
Speaker 2: Two very different sports though, don't get it twisted, but
Speaker 2: get it twisted, twist, but just just I know this
Speaker 2: again was not the question, But anybody out there who's
Speaker 2: enthusiastic about women's sports, make your own content and see
Speaker 2: where it takes you. I just really get excited to
Speaker 2: see new creators every single day pushing the game for it.
Speaker 2: So yes, I'm gonna be pushing. I just finished up
Speaker 2: my sideline assignments at Athletes Unlimited, which is another greatly
Speaker 2: that serves as an opportunity for players to sharpen their game,
Speaker 2: whether it's w NBA or you know, professional basketball any
Speaker 2: other level. But I just finished that assignment, going down
Speaker 2: Unrivaled next week, and then taking a much needed vacation
Speaker 2: because we need to pour from a full cup for
Speaker 2: your saucer and then going into march madness.
Speaker 1: You say that as I'm down to my final breath
Speaker 1: and my last my last straw here on my many
Speaker 1: many many city vacation slash work trip. So pourn from
Speaker 1: a full cup is something I'm unfamiliar with, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna work on that.
Speaker 2: We'll get it together.
Speaker 1: We got this, Ari, Thank you so much for the time.
Speaker 1: We love you so much and hope to see you
Speaker 1: in Tampa.
Speaker 2: Sarah, you will see me in Tampa, and we're gonna frolic.
Speaker 2: We're gonna we.
Speaker 1: Aren't gonna follow it. Thanks so much to Ari for
Speaker 1: hopping on. We have to take another break. When we return,
Speaker 1: a wildcat joins a duck and a hawkeye. Welcome back, Slices.
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want you to
Speaker 1: get in the game every day too, So here's our
Speaker 1: good game play of the day. Follow Ari on social media.
Speaker 1: She's at ari ivory on most everything. We'll link to
Speaker 1: her profiles in our show notes. Also, Ari's right, We've
Speaker 1: told you this on the show. Title nine is at risk.
Speaker 1: We tend to talk about it a lot at a
Speaker 1: macro level, but there might be some Title nine issues
Speaker 1: happening closer to home than you think. If you live
Speaker 1: near a school, high school, college, or otherwise. If you
Speaker 1: have kids in your local schools, tap in with local groups,
Speaker 1: do a little research about how you can get involved
Speaker 1: in supporting the law and the girls and women athletes
Speaker 1: and non athletes in your area. We always love to
Speaker 1: hear from you, so hit us up on email good
Speaker 1: game at Wonderbdia network dot com or leave us a
Speaker 1: voicemail at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy,
Speaker 1: and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. It's easy
Speaker 1: watch Kentucky's Georgia Amore joining an exclusive club rating three
Speaker 1: out of three Superstars review. Heading into this season, just
Speaker 1: two Division one women's basketball players in history had scored
Speaker 1: over twenty three hundred career points and posted at least
Speaker 1: eight hundred career assists, but that number is now three.
Speaker 1: Kentucky's Georgia Amore joined Iowa's Caitlin Clark and oregon sabrinian Escu,
Speaker 1: hitting the eight hundred assist mark in late January and
Speaker 1: the twenty three hundred point mark in mid February. After
Speaker 1: Kentucky's regular season finale last weekend a lost to South Carolina.
Speaker 1: Amore sits at two thy, three hundred and seventy nine
Speaker 1: career points and eight hundred forty eight career assists. Congrats
Speaker 1: to Georgia Amore. You're in rare air with Clark and Yonescu.
Speaker 1: Now it's your turn slices, rate and review. Thanks for listening,
Speaker 1: See you tomorrow. Good a good game, NC State. You
Speaker 1: anyone who isn't loving all this parody of women's college basketball?
Speaker 1: Are you not entertained? Good Game with Sarah Spain is
Speaker 1: an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue
Speaker 1: Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez,
Speaker 1: and Grace Lynch. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and
Speaker 1: I'm your host Sarah Spain