WEBVTT - Did Climate Cause the Collapse of the Maya? 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.920 Hello Seattle, and hello San Francisco. We are coming out 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:06.720 to do live shows in January for you guys, like 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:08.920 we seem to do every year. Now. Yeah, it's kind 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:11.360 of a pattern that's emerging. Chuck, that's right. And the 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.240 pattern is you come to see us, you laugh, we 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.279 have a good time, and everyone leaves happy. That's the pattern. 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.360 So if you want to leave happy, you can come 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:25.120 see us on Thursday, January at the More Theater in Seattle. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.319 And you can come see a Saturday January at the 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:33.159 Castro in San Francisco. Yes, part of our annual retreat 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.639 to Sketch Fest. Yes. So if you want tickets and information, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.760 go to s y s K live dot com, our 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.480 home on the web, powered by our friends at Squarespace, 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.680 and we'll see you in January. Welcome to Stuff You 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:55.800 Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:58.880 welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.200 Chuck Bryant. There's area over there, and this is Stuff 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.280 you Should Know the podcast. What else would it be? 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.080 A TV show? Not for a long time? Every funny. 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.320 I like that. I like that intro. Okay, that's good. 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.080 If I'm not mistaken. Who did I say melted many 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.080 years ago? Was it the Maya? No? Neanderthals, that's right, 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.120 or Thals? If you don't want to be a douche, 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.280 can we say that. I don't know. We'll find out. 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.039 Jerry didn't even hear it. Maybe she will in the 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.600 in the I bet she won't. Um, yeah, it was 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.759 the Neanderthals. But I'm gonna go ahead and say it again. 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.800 Maybe it's the Maya melted, sure due to climate change. Maybe, 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.800 but that's what you were talking about right then, melted 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:53.240 because the climate change, that's right. What's I thought was hilarious? 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.560 But let's talk about the Maya civilization? Oh yeah, yeah, 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.240 I meant to tell you. Let's let's kind of move 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.400 stuff around here. Do you want to? Sure? Do? I mean? 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.000 What do you mean? Well, let's talk about Charles Lindbergh first. Okay, 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.120 I think he's a better intro than just kind of 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.520 randomly in the middle. All right, So sure, And that 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.120 means we can start out in the way back machine, 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.280 which we would have been in anyway, but we'll be closer. 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:28.720 We'll save some gas. It's way closer, that's right. We're 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:34.120 going back to February, Yes, February nine, when Chuck Limburgh 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.839 was flying for pan Am and he was flying over 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.320 what is now believes and if you can believe that, 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.639 I'm so sorry. But what he would do back then, 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.320 and this is after you know, of course his the 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.840 big flight, the big one. Uh, he would get hired 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:57.480 to do the like these little exploratory routes for airlines, 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.440 in this case PanAm. He may have done that exclusive 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.600 of your paying him. I have no idea. I wasn't 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.000 in his contract business. But he would fly these routes 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.360 to sort of blaze new trails for like for flying 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.440 routes and say, hey, this is a pretty legit flying 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:17.200 route for delivering stuff or or even passenger routes, and 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.240 maybe add it to your to your docket. So he 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.120 was doing this, and he was flying over this episode 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.639 on air routes. No, it's not, because he was flying 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:32.000 over Mexico and Central America well believes, like you said, yeah, 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.040 And and it was just very dense jungle everywhere he 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.760 looked until he went over this one part where it 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.360 was described not by Charles Lindberg for some reason, but 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.520 by an Associated Press writer who apparently got into the 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.920 head of Charles Lindberg and said it looked like two 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:53.200 emerald eyes staring up out of the jungle brush, the 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.720 tangle of the jungle brush. So he went back, flew 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.360 a little lower to investigate. And what he found was 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.600 what that the that the emerald eyes were actually twin 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:10.920 reflecting pools in a massive stone temple, like reflecting the 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.760 sun into his face. And he was like, um, so 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.400 is he a stone temple pilot? I guess so, Oh, 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.080 my gosh, is that off the cuff? It was? That 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.080 was pretty good? Um, that was great? Actually, uh. And 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.479 he realized that he was looking at the ruins of 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.800 a lost city, a massive stone lost city. Actually I 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:34.080 don't think he realized that, probably, but we now know that. Well, 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.000 he he saw that it was covered in jungle and 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:42.200 overgrowth and everything. Yeah, and he so the legend goes 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:46.840 chuck that that, um, Charles Lindbergh discovered the Lost Man 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:52.520 in Civilization, right, which is not true. No, well, okay, 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:58.799 it's nuanced. That particular article is probably totally made up. Yeah, 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.440 and but even if he did find that part he 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:06.040 didn't he didn't discover and that's probably not what Evan said. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:11.200 He did not discovered the lost Maya civilization. He found 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.640 a part of it. Right, It's it's it's apocryphal. It's 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.680 an apocryphal story because by that time people were aware 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.159 that the Maya had existed, but they had kind of 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:22.120 been seen as legend for a very long time. But 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.919 starting in from what I could tell, the nineteen twenties, 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.880 they started um finding these massive, huge lost cities, just 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.719 like Limburgh supposedly found. And later on Limburgh did actually 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.960 fly over some of these lost cities and photograph him 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.800 and he got into aerial archaeology. But the point is this, 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.440 there are still are and there definitely were more lost 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:49.520 cities that were just enormous, with huge temples, some of 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.599 them pyramids that were among the tallest pyramids in the world, 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.760 completely overgrown by the jungle, just overtaken, abandoned cities. And 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.400 they started looking around and they started finding more of 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.880 these cities and more and more all over the Yucatan 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:10.039 and northern uh well actually all of Guatemala into Honduras, 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:14.640 Belize and El Salvador, a big chunk of Central America 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.720 that there's these lost cities that were found, and they 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.080 all seemed to share something in common, so much so 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.800 that they now realized that they were peopled by the 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:27.360 same cultural group, the Maya. That's right, So let's talk 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.080 about the Maya. Let's go back even further. Let's go 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:35.520 back between twenty and twelve hundred or B c D 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.400 or what we now would call ce CE or I 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.960 think people now just say, like years ago, do they 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.640 do they really? Yeah? I don't, well yeah, they're they're like, 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.719 get religion out of it entirely, just say a long 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.360 time ago. Yeah, this this many years ago. Okay, so 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.880 many many years ago, the Maya civilization um occupied this 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.880 big area that we were talking about. There's a period 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:06.120 of time known as the classic Classic Maya that's what 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.160 they call it, the classic period between double on their 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.160 way through the door, between two fifty and nine hundred, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.640 where I mean you talk about flourishing as a culture 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:21.160 like it was. It hadn't been seen since the Roman Empire. 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:29.080 Basically the cities uh sixty or more sixty seventy thousand people. Um, 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:33.160 they had sports arenas, they had pyramids, they had these 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:38.360 advanced farming practices, they made calendars, they understood math, and 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:43.400 we're really really advanced, and I believe even Um at 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.880 the time, some of these cities outnumbered the amount of 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.800 people that were in places like London in Paris at 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.960 that same time. Yeah yeah, and like something like say 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.760 eight hundred c e. If you travel over London in 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.440 Paris you find far fewer people, like double or triple 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.480 the amount in this Maya culture. The way that I 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.040 saw it put was in these in the in the 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:10.560 area of like Um, the Yucatan and Guatemala, the the 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:12.680 southern Lowlands I think is what they call it, where 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.360 like most of the great Mayan cities were. Um. The 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.800 population density is about what it is today in Los 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:25.280 Angeles County. Wow, imagine that. And now it's just overrun 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.880 jungle rainforest mostly um. But it used to be as 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.160 dense as l A County, Like people just everywhere in 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.960 this Yeah, super dense. So uh, here's the thing about 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.240 the may Empires that they were never one big group. Um. 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.280 They were never unified politically. They were just a bunch 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.800 of warring city states but really thriving. And they also 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.960 had like political alliances between city states. But that same 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.200 city state could be at like total war fifty years later, 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.280 you know, the shifting constantly, that's right, But the thing 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.200 we really need to hammer homes that they were doing 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.520 great for themselves. They were really thriving as a culture 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.360 and as a people, and then in about a hundred 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:07.559 and fifty year period between eight hundred and nine fifty, 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:13.439 they disappeared. For all intents and purposes, the classic Maya 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:18.200 culture just vanished into the jungle. And that is not 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.200 to say that the people all died. Uh, they assimilated 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.360 into other cultures. But what you were talking about, that 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.960 Maya culture and those those big cities of seventy thousand 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.560 people just went away. Yeah, it's it be kind of 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:37.560 like a good analogy is if over you know, the 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:43.440 next thirty years. Yeah, Um, the the United States just 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:49.840 suddenly reverted to sixteenth century agrarian practices. That was it. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.000 We just abandoned our cities and went and farmed, and 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:57.000 like we didn't farm with any tractors or anything like that. 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:02.959 We started using ox um oxen. Just completely abandoned our 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:07.120 culture and went back to a simple farming lifestyle. That 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.640 would basically be the closest analogy you can come up with. 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.880 And it happened really fast, super fast, and as a result, 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.440 that Mayan culture, like you said, was sort of looked 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.760 at as a legend before you know, we started finding 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.320 these places again. Yeah, because you know, locals kind of 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.120 knew about they'd be like, oh, if you go into 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.920 the jungle, you you're going to find a lost city. 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.320 Explorers were like, you're we're crazy, that's not real. But 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.960 then they started to actually find these lost cities. And 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:39.400 what's really surprising to me is they're still finding lost cities. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:44.079 Every year there'll be some new study coming out that says, oh, 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:51.120 we used Leader. I think it's light Leader. Yeah. Leader. 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:55.400 It's basically a way of looking through vegetation to see 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.240 solid structures underneath. So they're looking through the jungle. It's 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.160 like a jungle X kind of. Yeah, it's actually it's perfect. Um. 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:05.079 And they're starting to find even more lost cities, and 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.720 they're also finding that the lost cities that we know about, 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.040 there's one called Elmir Door that hasn't been kind of 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.960 excavated yet, but it's the pyramid is so tall that 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.920 is sticking up out of the jungle canopy, so they 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.120 know there's a lost city there. But um, using Leader, 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.080 they've seen like, oh, it's way more extensive than we 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.960 thought before. Elmir door probably had a hundred thousand people 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.480 living in the city center at its peak. All right, 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.920 so that's a good setup. We're gonna take a break 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:35.920 and discuss the merits of Jungle X Ray as a 0:11:35.920 --> 0:12:00.720 band name and be back right after this. It's not bad. 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:06.040 What kind of band would it be? That's your specialty? 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.400 Sounds like a party band, right does. It's got a 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.760 lot of funk going on. I think seventies, sure, but 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.320 not but like a seventies throwback they like didn't exist 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:21.520 in the seventies. Oh yeah, like uh the uh like 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.840 a Ya sisters? Oh who's that? Wasn't that a band? 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.640 Jerry Scissor Sisters? That It was like a funky throwback 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.440 seventies thing? Okay, I gotta listen to them while they 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.520 were around for a minute. I think they're not around anymore, 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.840 all right, But did they leave like any kind of 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.640 documentation of their music? I seem to remember them being 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.480 like a party band. I don't know, but I mean, 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.360 did they have a record out or what? Man they 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.040 had records? It's gonna go check them out. Think I 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:54.319 just made this up, all right? So the Maya disappeared, 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.080 why would Jerry knows she hit all of a sudden. 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:03.080 I don't know, she just what she just didn't so uh. 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:09.079 Charles Lindbergh comes around, referred to previous. Uh story, we 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.640 already talked about. Lindberg referre to previous story. That's why 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.400 I said that. And he he puts this back on 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.800 the map again, and everyone is excited about discovering about 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.280 who these people were, right, But the whole thing, like 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.280 from the outset, they're like, what happened to these people? Sure? 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.360 And the more we learned about him, this is the 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.800 other thing, like the legends of this sudden civilization just vanishing, 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:37.880 Like the more we studied them, the more we realized 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.480 that's actually kind of accurate. The legends are true. There 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.800 was this amazing culture that just vanished into the forest. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.880 And um And one of the big things, one of 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:54.200 the big breakthroughs in studying my culture was cracking UM. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:14:00.400 There written alphabet, they used hire glyphs. And there's a really, 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:04.559 really good documentary called UM Cracking the Maya Coat On 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.880 I think it was a Nova episode. Dude. It is good. 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.200 It's thrilling, and it basically is them just sitting around 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:18.400 some house one summer trying to figure this out. But 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.320 they're like going back and forth and some like I 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.600 think some like twenty year old woman figured it out. Yeah, 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.240 and they now we understand a lot more. But what 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.520 we're finding is it's like, oh no, this is this 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.840 really happened. Something really weird happened here, and we still 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.920 aren't quite sure what caused it. It was a very 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.800 odd description of how they figured that out. What sitting 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.440 around a house that's what they did. I think they 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.040 had like a workshop or something. They're like, we're really 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:46.840 going to try to figure this out. We're gonna try 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:51.520 to crack this coat. And they actually did where we 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.400 could go sit in. Well, that's what they were doing. 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.240 It was a house, someone's house. I think, I love it, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.360 so that's knowing me. It was definitely not a house 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.880 by any stretch, and I'll have to do it correct. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:06.840 They're like, Josh, is your house Harvard University. So there 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.160 are some theories that have been developed over the years 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.720 that all kind of makes sense, and some of them 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.800 there that's not necessarily a binary thing that some of 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.600 them could have all contributed to the collapse of the 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.160 Maya um over farming is one which makes a lot 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.080 of sense. And that's the idea that basically they were 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.560 so successful. They had tons of food, tons of water, 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.320 and so they said, well, let's just make tons and 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.120 tons of babies, which all of a sudden, the farmers 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.600 are like, gees, we're really growing. Yeah, like I don't 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.800 know if we can grow this much corn. Um, so 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.840 let's clear some forest land and grow grow, grow, which 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.120 means they're not practicing safe and sound farming practices. All 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.560 of a sudden, they weren't practicing safe sex, and they 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.920 weren't practicing safe farming. That's right. So um, because of 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.640 this over farming, they weren't allowed to they didn't have 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.160 the opportunity let their fields lay fallow because everything was 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.760 in production, which is there's really no faster way to 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:09.280 overstretch your agricultural resources than that. That's right. What we're 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.320 here to tell you, Uh, well, warfare. We know they 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.920 were a warring people for sure, So the Maya rulers 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.280 were they did a lot of disservice to their own 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:23.280 people by kind of over inflating uh their resources, and 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:28.000 how tough they were, Um, what kind of warriors they were, 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.480 and how powerful they were. They could make it rain, 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.280 they can control the weather and thus control the crops. 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.440 And this may have backfired on them, as the theory 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.920 goes that they warred so much that they sapped their 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.560 own resources and eventually people retaliated and they were not 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.080 able to fight back. And I think the guy who 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.760 led that workshop at that dude's house where they cracked 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.880 the code, I cannot remember his name, but he's a 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.560 eminent Maya scholar. He he is of the camp. That's like, 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.200 it was warfare, that's what That's what. It was, plain 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.600 and simple. They just fought too much and they eventually 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.800 they reached some tipping point from war. And there's real 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.879 evidence about some of these cultures at least for some 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.240 of these cities going down because of warfare. Yeah, I 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.440 mean like they engaged in total war or they would 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.720 like target civilians, they would burn your whole city down. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.200 They like. It wasn't like they were a very warlike group, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.160 which is funny because for a very long time they 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:31.600 were portrayed as um one of the few Mesoamerican groups 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.399 that didn't practice human sacrifice, and then once we cracked 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.480 my code, were like, oh no, actually they were prolific 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.720 at that. Yeah, it was bad news. The other is disease, 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.879 and this is um not human disease necessarily, but like 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.920 virus from their food supply. Yeah, that's another ecological disaster. 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.359 That's right. I think mays mosaic virus was named in 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.760 the nineteen seventy nine articles. So like, there's a lot 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.199 of a lot of good theory is out there and 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.639 they aren't necessary. It's not a zero some kind of 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:08.440 thing figuring it out, but there's over the years lately, Um, 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.320 in the last decade or two, maybe people have really 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.359 started to say, you know, I think we should look 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.240 a little closer at the Royal climate change might play 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.280 in this kind of stuff. And when they look specifically 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.120 at the Maya, they said, actually, it looks a lot 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.359 like climate change played a big role in in the 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.359 decline of the classic Maya civilization. That's right. And just 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.360 because the Maya didn't burn fossil fuels to run cars 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.000 doesn't mean that the Earth wasn't affected by climate change 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.399 and that they weren't affected by climate change. Yeah, they 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.560 think that probably climate change happened on its own, but 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.159 they've also pinpointed some ways that the Maya may have 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:51.280 exacerbated it too. You mean, people can impact that some 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:55.560 foo loops say so. So they've done some studies. They 0:18:55.640 --> 0:19:00.720 studied mineral deposits um in caves left by dripping water, 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.600 and they have been able to put together a two 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:08.600 thousand year history of weather patterns based on Speelio thumbs alone. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.480 That's right, uh. And what they found out, and this 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.959 was published an article in Science, UH in two thousand 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:20.360 twelve Science magazine, the journal Science. The journal Science. It's 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:24.440 not called like Science Weekly or what the Ohio State Universe. Um. 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.280 But what they did find out was for the first 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.880 few hundred years, and this really lens UH a lot 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.639 of credence to the theory that they may have overfarmed 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.320 and stuff like that, is they really had a lot 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:39.400 of rain and they flourished as a result of that. Yeah, 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.320 which you can't really blame them. It's it's them saying, okay, 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.120 well let's thrive and we can thrive in these conditions. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.080 It's not like they were like, Okay, it's this is 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.399 a really wet period, let's take advantage of it and 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:56.120 really overstretch our ourselves. Um. They just kind of went 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.159 with it, and their population grew because it could be 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.200 supported because is there was such a large amount of rain, 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.680 their crops grew, their reservoirs were full, and this is 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.720 a few hundred years, right over the course of a 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.400 few hundred years. But from looking at the cave deposits, 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.960 they found that there was a very wet record that 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:20.040 corresponds with the classical Maya period. Wet record is a 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.480 Scissor Sisters album. I don't know, Jump, what was it? 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.080 Jungle x ray albu Jungle x ray wet record, so 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.000 that hip, that's hip. Jerry doesn't disgusted with this at 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:38.200 this point around six six d this all changed the rain. 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.520 What's that funny for? I just thought have a good analogy. 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:46.280 So Jungle x ray their album wet record is to 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:52.040 seventies funk soul throwbacks. What the darkness Permission to land 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:56.000 is the eighties hair metal throwback? That's not an s 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.240 A T question. I think I think we just get it, Chuck. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.159 Did we correctly go? Yeah, we we cracked that Jungle lectory. 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:05.800 Did you see where Motley Crue is gonna play shows 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:10.480 again after we supposedly saw their farewell to her that 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.160 they even signed a contract saying they could legally never 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.880 perform again together. And they're going on a stadium tour 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.320 with Poison and Deaf Leppard. What I know, I'll see 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.720 you there. Yeah. So remember we got invited to that 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:26.680 show by Nitas Strauss, That's right, who is like huge, Yeah, 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.720 guitar player at the time. Maybe still for Alice Cooper's Yeah, 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.359 I think she does that still, I think. But she's 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.640 like a guitar legend, not jam She's great. I hope 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:41.399 she still listens. He's probably not. But around six sixty 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.160 the weather changed, the rains did not come like they 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:49.680 used to, and they had the longest dry spell of 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.199 the last two thousand years. And this is gonna have 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.399 a real impact. When everything's flourishing and you're just planting 0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.760 and planting, all of a sudden you're a or thirsty. 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.320 That's a big one, and you're not you're hungry that 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.919 thirst thing. It's funny because like we're talking about rainforests, 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.080 but this area in northern Guatemala where the Maya will 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.000 live just called the petting or the pitten I don't know, 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.639 pet e n And it is kind of like feast 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:22.040 or famine depending on the rain cycle. So when it's dry, 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.600 it's like you're you're in trouble because the closest groundwater 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.280 is about five feet below the surface, and um, it's 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:30.840 not going to rain for a very long time. So 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.520 if you haven't prepared by building reservoirs your you might 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.600 die of thirst. So a drought in the pattern, which 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:39.639 is normally dry some parts of the year, would be 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:42.600 a real problem. If you're talking about a drought that 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.160 lasts over years or possibly decades. Now you have a 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:50.119 civilization collapsing problem. Yeah, so that's a big problem in 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.800 and of itself. You've got a big population that grew 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.600 when it was wet. Suddenly it's not wet, and you 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:59.080 still have that big population. There's a lot of internal 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:03.600 problems that can that can develop, especially between classes too. 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.680 Sure the haves and the have nuts, which existed back then, 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.480 but also the rulers who are like, you know, more 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.360 human sacrifices, We need to keep this this this thing 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:14.960 going to get the rain to come back. Well, and 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.200 the common folk being like, jeez, I don't know about this. Uh, 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:21.240 you know, I hadn't rained in a while. It was 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:23.960 my cousin before, but now I was asking for my brother, 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:27.199 yeah exactly. So that created a lot of tension. The 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.399 other thing that could have sped this whole thing up 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:31.720 was the fact that they were thriving so much that 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.520 they were expanding their territory and they were cutting down 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:38.119 and deforesting the land around them for fuel and to 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:42.000 build things. And they have found, uh, they found pollen. 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:46.080 They studied pollen and these ancient layers and lake sediment 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:50.240 in Central America, and around eight d that pollen went 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:53.159 from tree pollen to weed pollen pretty quickly. Yeah, and 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:58.520 that's about when the Maya reached their fluorescence, when they 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.800 really reached their pinnacles about eight hundred. So what that 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:04.600 suggests is they cut down all the forests and they 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:07.880 were using what used to be forest for crop land 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:11.160 because they practice slash and char where they would burn 0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:15.240 it down to introduce carbon nutrients into the ground. Um. 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.960 The problem is as if there's no force whatsoever, you've 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.320 just altered your ecosystem and by doing that, you can 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:24.640 actually alter the local climate, which they think they may have. Yeah. 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:26.359 Not only that, but it's going to have just the 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:30.360 physical effect of erosion, like a massive erosion, because those 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:33.199 tree roots are gone, and that's gonna screw up your 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:36.520