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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and shockingly, Jim Jordan's is embarrassing himself

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Speaker 1: as head of the Judiciary Committee. We have one hell

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Speaker 1: of a show today. MSNBC political analyst Cornell Belcher stops

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Speaker 1: by to talk about the bias the press has when

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Speaker 1: covering VP Kamala Harris. Then we'll talk to actress and

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Speaker 1: podcast host Busy Phillips about her activism and how the

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Speaker 1: world of celebrity has changed. But first we have NPRS

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Speaker 1: Robin fars Odd. Welcome to Fast Politics. Robin, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me on again. I think you

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Speaker 1: guys are making a mistake. I see Nancy Pelosi, Brian

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Speaker 1: Stelter and then wait for it or something. What happened? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a different and uh, we have all different people

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Speaker 1: talking about all different things. Sure, and you know the

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Speaker 1: truth is, we need to talk about that job's report.

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Speaker 1: And as much as I love, you know, Nancy Pelosi,

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Speaker 1: she's not well. I mean, actually should be great to

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Speaker 1: talk about it too, But I would love to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about those jobs numbers last week because they

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Speaker 1: were kind of blockbuster. It just blew everybody away. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we at all. You know, in psychological terms, the self

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Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecy of recession. It was supposed to be faded

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Speaker 1: complete and then you just have a number that just

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Speaker 1: blows all estimates out of the water. Now, obviously that's

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Speaker 1: great and the White House can run victory laps around it.

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Speaker 1: Not that you need a much lower unemployment rate than

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Speaker 1: where we are now. I mean vsa V the lowis

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Speaker 1: since ninety nine. But the flip side of that is

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Speaker 1: that you know, Jerome Powell and the Fed are going

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Speaker 1: to become much more cautious about keeping rates where they are.

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Speaker 1: They're going to go ever higher because they did a

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Speaker 1: half point. So they're still anxiety, right, I mean, the

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Speaker 1: problem is there is this push and pull, right, there's

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Speaker 1: an anxiety about the economy getting too hot and that

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Speaker 1: encouraging inflation. So the Fed, whenever they're good economic numbers,

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Speaker 1: there's immediately this anxiety that the Fed is going to

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Speaker 1: raise rates. In a perfect world, you could have a

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Speaker 1: soft landing where it's not too hot, not too cold.

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Speaker 1: I think you know, when Jerome Powell puts his head

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Speaker 1: down on the pillow at night. He imagined is as

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Speaker 1: a scenario of maybe three percent inflation and four and

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Speaker 1: a half percent unemployment if there were a knee trade off.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure it works that way. At least. We

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Speaker 1: look back to the early eighties and Paul Wolker, you

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Speaker 1: have to crash the economy and send it into a

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Speaker 1: deep procession, indeed, to kill inflation the kinds that we

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Speaker 1: saw of double digits forty years ago, and the concern

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Speaker 1: was that this FED would have to do the same thing. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: just maybe it won't have to. Oh interesting, I mean,

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Speaker 1: where do you think this goes? Now? My mind has

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Speaker 1: been on something that I think no one in either

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Speaker 1: party really wants to mention much. Is we talk about

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Speaker 1: the FED taking interest rates to zero, but how often

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Speaker 1: do we talk about p p P. And the excess

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Speaker 1: is in the profligacy of p p P. I think

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Speaker 1: that so much money was pumped into the economy with

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Speaker 1: no questions asked, and many small and medium sized businesses

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Speaker 1: still have that some of that money stockpiled in their

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Speaker 1: cash and that's why it's so hard to kill inflation.

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Speaker 1: I think that, combined with zero percent interest rate policy

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Speaker 1: and all the fear of missing out in the pandemic

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Speaker 1: has led to this just really long, deep inflation that

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Speaker 1: we're feeling. And we're still way too high for comfort.

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Speaker 1: I think the FED wants to get to two percent,

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Speaker 1: and we're maybe at three times that right now. And

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Speaker 1: the question is how much do we have to exact

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Speaker 1: pain on the economy in terms of interest rate hikes

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Speaker 1: until the economy cries uncle and says, all right, you've

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Speaker 1: got me, that's enough, leave me alone. Yeah, that is

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Speaker 1: really good question. I think. So it was half a million,

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Speaker 1: a little more than half a million. The expectation was

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Speaker 1: about half of that, right, I think half of that

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Speaker 1: a little less than half of that. It completely blew

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Speaker 1: everybody away, and you saw the stock market sell off

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Speaker 1: initially and afterwards like, maybe it's not bad because we

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Speaker 1: can have this idea of a soft landing. Maybe the

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Speaker 1: Fed will have one or two quarter point hikes left

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Speaker 1: in it, and then we'll get to what's called you know,

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Speaker 1: terminal interest rate level. What does that mean? That sounds

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Speaker 1: bad for you? Unhealthy? Yeah? The peak level where we

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Speaker 1: get interest rates at this time is it five and

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Speaker 1: a half percent? Is a five and a quarter percent?

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Speaker 1: I mean again, we were at zero interest rate policy,

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Speaker 1: and they had to hike by so many chunky increments

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Speaker 1: last year that I think the market just wants to

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Speaker 1: have an endgame insight. So I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about that for a second, because one of the

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Speaker 1: consequences of these higher interest rates is that it kills

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Speaker 1: the home buying market. Yes, but I guess arguably the

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Speaker 1: home buying market got so out of control and it's

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Speaker 1: still out of control for first time buyers. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there was so much speculation and FOMO and people suddenly

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Speaker 1: fetishizing housing. We were staying at home. We're like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to downsize. In fact, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: put an addition on an office in al Cove, and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy a vacation home and buy something in

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Speaker 1: Aspen in South Florida on Coral Gables, And that is

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Speaker 1: really crowded out. And this is almost sounds like a trope.

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Speaker 1: I mean millennial buyers, younger buyers who have no hope

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Speaker 1: of kind of hitting the ask. You know, housing prices

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Speaker 1: were up I think during the pandemic by and this

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Speaker 1: was supposed to buy design. I think if Powell had

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Speaker 1: a lever and he could attack housing and some of

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Speaker 1: the super hot areas of the economy. He would do it,

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Speaker 1: but as you know, it's a blunt instrument fed rate

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Speaker 1: hikes and it takes it could take everything down with it. Right,

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Speaker 1: we have these two paradoxes. We have tight employment, right

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Speaker 1: so almost full employment were you know, which drives wages higher,

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Speaker 1: which needs to happen. And then we have these higher

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Speaker 1: interest rates which drives housing costs lower, which needs to happen.

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Speaker 1: But the process of going through it is quite painful.

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Speaker 1: But you don't have unanimity out there of you know,

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Speaker 1: wages need to go higher. You might say that from

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Speaker 1: a kind of a quality and income and standard of

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Speaker 1: living perspective. But if you talk to the Chamber of Commerce,

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Speaker 1: of the Club for growth by people like you have

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Speaker 1: restaurant people, in hospitality people and and airline people complaining

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Speaker 1: that people don't even show up for job interviews, much

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Speaker 1: less take the jobs. And that is inflationary. And maybe

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Speaker 1: we were deluding ourselves for fifty years that we were

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Speaker 1: able to pay people seven dollars an hour and get

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Speaker 1: away with it and pocket the rest is profit or

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Speaker 1: reinvested back into the business. Yeah, and and maybe that's

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Speaker 1: bad not paying people living wage. It is, but what

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Speaker 1: is the equilibrium? I know, the Club for Growth might

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Speaker 1: not say that. Yeah, but you're gonna see a lot

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Speaker 1: of residue, a lot of the detritus, detritus of this

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Speaker 1: um pandemic you walk into, Like the Einstein's near me

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Speaker 1: used to be just the thriving place where all the

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Speaker 1: parents would meet after drop off or during pick up,

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Speaker 1: and they completely got rid of their interior dining room

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Speaker 1: area because it's strictly become a pickup indoor dash operation.

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Speaker 1: Because they just don't have the staff. There's no way

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Speaker 1: people can clean the tables, provision customers, sweep the floors,

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Speaker 1: all of that excess space, all of the Starbucks that

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Speaker 1: are contorting to move to kind of a drive through model.

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Speaker 1: How permanent is this? If businesses just try to automate

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Speaker 1: and do so much more with less. Yes, you can

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Speaker 1: only take a three and a half percent unemployment rate

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Speaker 1: for granted, for so long? Right, all right, right, I

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Speaker 1: mean it is, it's just a lot of really interested

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Speaker 1: in paradoxes. Ultimately, I just don't know, Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I was at Business Week after two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, everybody was asking about the new normal.

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Speaker 1: What is normal when we're we at an equilibrium and

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Speaker 1: when you talk to people that tell you there was

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Speaker 1: never a normal. It's not like a point in time

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Speaker 1: in history where things were not too hot, not too cold.

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Speaker 1: It was a peace time thing. There was a peace dividend.

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Speaker 1: We weren't speculating. The FED wasn't an interest rate policy,

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Speaker 1: you know, zero interest rate. There wasn't a Cuban missile crisis,

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Speaker 1: or there's always something that's kind of out of whack.

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Speaker 1: And now we're really experiencing inflation and supply chain disruption

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Speaker 1: and a reluctant workforce that is in no rush to

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Speaker 1: go back. With unemployment shoots up to eight percent, I

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Speaker 1: think that would expose very different motivations and people very

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Speaker 1: eager to go back and collect the check. But for

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Speaker 1: the time being, you know, you're seeing so many openings

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Speaker 1: for every avid job taker. It's it's pretty disconcerting even

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Speaker 1: to the feed. Interesting. Um, so what are you watching now?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean that we're we're kind of

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Speaker 1: in this. Everybody thought going into this year, if you

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Speaker 1: pulled people, uh, you know, around Christmas or Hanaker Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 1: that recession was was kind of guaranteed. I wonder where

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Speaker 1: commodity prices go. I wondered the extent to which Europe

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Speaker 1: can heal in the wake of you know, Russia, Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: emerging markets. I do watch the FED. I don't fetishize

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Speaker 1: over it. I follow the markets. I feel like um

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Speaker 1: inflation is a part of life again, at least in

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Speaker 1: my investing and and you know, business journalism career. I

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Speaker 1: have never truly experienced it. There's always been this cry

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Speaker 1: wolf of inflation. And do prices really go down again?

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Speaker 1: They say they're sticky upwards. Are you're going to see

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Speaker 1: menu prices fall? Are you going to see you know,

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Speaker 1: right now, there's a big battle for the soul of

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Speaker 1: tipping wherever you go to a cafe and they flipped

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Speaker 1: the iPad around. Is that gonna subside once you win?

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Speaker 1: And if you see unemployment go up. I just think

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of coat tails of this pandemic

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Speaker 1: and the many disruptions that we're still trying to to

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Speaker 1: separate and pick up the pieces of. And I know

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Speaker 1: I mixed three thousand metaphors there, but that's just my style.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about e VS and you

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Speaker 1: on and Twitter because we have to. That's a mandatory question.

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Speaker 1: You on has not killed Twitter, but he has not

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Speaker 1: killed it with Twitter, right, He's happy just to keep

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Speaker 1: servicing the debt on this thing. I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: you see? What do you think? How much money can

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Speaker 1: you throw at this? He already paid way too much

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Speaker 1: for it, and he fired half the staff. We saw

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Speaker 1: maybe some of the wheels come off again last night.

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Speaker 1: Did you see yesterday what was happening where you tried

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Speaker 1: to host tweets? And it said do you've tweeted too

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Speaker 1: many times? I was like, I've tweeted thrice? What he

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Speaker 1: got against me? You know, I'm afraid of these kind

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Speaker 1: of these eyes of of sa Ron looking at me

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Speaker 1: whatever I tweet. I want to say something sassy, but

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get banned because you know, I

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Speaker 1: need that nectar. So I don't know what he's doing.

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Speaker 1: I know that whatever his net worth was before he

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Speaker 1: bought this two hundred billion dollars, even if he has

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Speaker 1: to liquidate Tesla stock to do this, I think just

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Speaker 1: to prove a point, he keeps throwing good money after

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Speaker 1: bad and I just don't get it. I don't see

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Speaker 1: the business emerging out of this. I don't see the

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Speaker 1: return on investment. It's just a shiny babble for a

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Speaker 1: man with a massive ego, As if it isn't hard

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Speaker 1: enough to do Tesla and SpaceX and kind of be

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Speaker 1: the Steve Jobs of his age, he had to go

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Speaker 1: in and buy Twitter. You had to be a big shot,

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Speaker 1: did you. As long as he's happy losing money, there's

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Speaker 1: not going to be a day when the dead comes back.

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Speaker 1: I mean to consider his equity, disposure and everything else.

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Speaker 1: He can take out the debt at lower levels and

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Speaker 1: retire some of the banks and the others who were

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Speaker 1: who right now probably have remorse for putting into this

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Speaker 1: club deal, and he could take them out just for

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Speaker 1: just for the sake of saying I have it now.

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Speaker 1: If you were a true cold eyed investor, you'd want

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Speaker 1: to be taking them out at a discount so you

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Speaker 1: could sell it back at let's say a hundred percent

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is. There's no evidence that this business

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Speaker 1: has been improved. If anything, all of tech has been

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Speaker 1: impaired since he first came in and had this dance

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Speaker 1: with them I think in April of two. So I

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Speaker 1: don't see what the upshot is for him. Just to

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Speaker 1: let all these different characters back onto Twitter. Maybe, just

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Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't matter when you're that rich, if you

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Speaker 1: know you're marked down by thirty or forty billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: what does it matter to you? Are you gonna Are

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Speaker 1: you gonna eat less? Are you gonna shed any of

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Speaker 1: your homes? Are you gonna do less of this? But

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Speaker 1: for a while at least it really ticked off test

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Speaker 1: La shareholders because he was he was taking his eye

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Speaker 1: off the test le bawl. So now are Tesla share

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Speaker 1: shareholders less ad and why the stock is back up

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Speaker 1: after it created? I think it had a good report.

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Speaker 1: But again, you know how much of this stuff, how

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Speaker 1: much of it, how much of of Elon Musk is

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Speaker 1: tweeting about Twitter versus Tesla, which is his cordetting and SpaceX.

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Speaker 1: I think that is the concern. And honestly, Twitter, for

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Speaker 1: as sticky as it is for all of us, it

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Speaker 1: was never a great business. It was never making anywhere

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Speaker 1: near what meta, Facebook and Google and Apple were doing.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how you reinvent that into a

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Speaker 1: good business. There was this idea, maybe you could turn

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Speaker 1: it into a mega app and it could have payments

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Speaker 1: and photos sharing and everything into it. But I'm not

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Speaker 1: all that sure anybody could have pulled it off. But

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Speaker 1: then again, he didn't have to come in and bid

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Speaker 1: so much for it to leave him no room for maneuver.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you break it, you buy it, you

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Speaker 1: own it. But I just want to keep going with

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Speaker 1: this for a minute. Doesn't Tesla seem like largely overvalued

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Speaker 1: considering that now a lot of that ev technology is

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you could buy a Tepslo, you could

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Speaker 1: buy a Chevy Vault, right, yeah, but the Tesla is

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Speaker 1: far preferable. I mean, you know, back back, you remember

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Speaker 1: the Geo Metro, the Chevy Vault, everything. I think the

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Speaker 1: airport where I live has a little signed by the

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Speaker 1: parking garage says you are not allowed to park a

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Speaker 1: Chevy Bolt in here because it's a fire risk. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the worst kind of advertising for general motors ever. Wait,

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Speaker 1: is it a fire risk? There was something that happened

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Speaker 1: with their batteries and a fire risk that they had

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Speaker 1: to have in a recall. Tesla is still worth seven

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Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars. It's perceived to have a six or

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Speaker 1: seven year head start ahead of all of the legacy

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Speaker 1: car makers. It's not like you were ever settling if

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Speaker 1: you bought a Tesla. It wasn't like a Geo Metro

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Speaker 1: or a you Go. It's an elite car, and it

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Speaker 1: feels like you're still settling with some of these other vehicles.

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Speaker 1: I think Ford has made enormous strides with its Mustang.

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Speaker 1: There's still a war for for range. You're seeing Rivan.

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Speaker 1: Some of the giant pickup trucks come out for it.

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Speaker 1: But it's still a perception of kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: Dr Pepper versus Mr pib if you will, I understand

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Speaker 1: the idea of that it's a premium product, but the

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Speaker 1: valuation is so high, and also Tesla's and its own

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Speaker 1: problems with spontaneous fires. So I mean, isn't there a

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Speaker 1: world where Mercedes just starts making e v s and

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Speaker 1: then Tesla goes away. I mean, I'm just this is

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Speaker 1: I'm just pushing because it is such an expensive company. True,

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Speaker 1: they call it the innovator's dilemma. Why didn't Microsoft invent

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Speaker 1: the first smartphone? Why didn't Microsoft ce mobile coming? Why

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Speaker 1: didn't Sony, the parent of the Walkman, invent the iPod?

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Speaker 1: And can you expect these guys who have a hundred

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Speaker 1: years of addiction to the internal combustion engine and the

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Speaker 1: fossil fuel industrial complex and their supply chains to overnight

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Speaker 1: just kind of shift to a vehicle like a Tesla,

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Speaker 1: which has far fewer parts, which is software and battery intensive.

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Speaker 1: That's culturally just not in their blood. And they can

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Speaker 1: advertise about it as much as they want on the

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Speaker 1: super Bowl, but again they're not the ones. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how many Sony products do you have in your house

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Speaker 1: right now versus Apple products right right? It's an innovator's dilemma,

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Speaker 1: and it's a self disruptor's dilemma. They can advertise about it,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure if you get a bunch of beers

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Speaker 1: into the CEOs of Ford and GM and and the

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Speaker 1: other one which is called Stalantis, is is what's left

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Speaker 1: of Chrysler, which merged with some you know, European carmakers,

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Speaker 1: they would much rather stretch out there one way by

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Speaker 1: selling as many ginormous gas guzzlers as possible. Right now.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're advertising on the Super Bowl about the

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Speaker 1: electric future, but you can't get enough of Ford f

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Speaker 1: one fifty sales or these GM super SUVs or suburbans

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Speaker 1: that are put together out of Arlington, Texas, and that's

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Speaker 1: just brutally hard to disrupt. That's your profit center, and

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Speaker 1: Wall Street is judging you heavily un quarter to quarter profitability,

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Speaker 1: where Tesla's mostly getting a pass because it has this

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Speaker 1: charismatic CEO that has what they called with with Steve Jobs,

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Speaker 1: how to reality distortion force Field. So I think there's

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Speaker 1: an asymmetry to it, to be honest, what I mean,

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Speaker 1: I I just I think you're giving a lot too

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Speaker 1: much credit. The market's giving him too much credit. Ford

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Speaker 1: plus GM combined is worth a little over a hundred

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Speaker 1: billion dollars. Tesla is worth seven hundred billion dollars. Every

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Speaker 1: short seller has been trying to short it for forever,

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Speaker 1: and the market is paying for some sort of future

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Speaker 1: that the Big three, the Big two and a half

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Speaker 1: are not able to convince the market to pay up

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Speaker 1: for right now. I agree with you. If they can

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Speaker 1: come up, and someone could come up with a killer

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Speaker 1: app Like I got a six hundred mile range car.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna lust after it. People are gonna love it,

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Speaker 1: just gonna pull up at the Oscars and everything. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be amazing. And I could sell it for thirty

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Speaker 1: five or forty grand profitably, then you would see Tesla

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Speaker 1: stock fall. If Apple came out suddenly that that the

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Speaker 1: following morning and said we're gonna have the Apple EV

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see all these fanboys and fangirls flock into it,

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Speaker 1: and Tesla stock will fall. Until then, Tesla is the

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Speaker 1: industry standard for EV. It has at least a five

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Speaker 1: year head start, and for a while people were paying

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Speaker 1: up more than a trillion dollars in market value for that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of that sold off last year when Musk

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Speaker 1: was distracted with Twitter. Right, yeah, I mean I don't.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's where we are so interesting. Will you

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Speaker 1: please come back? I love it, and in fact I

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Speaker 1: have I have a new jingle for you if you guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, if your producer wants to excerpt and use it,

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Speaker 1: I will charge royalties or anything. So wait for it.

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Speaker 1: Three to one jong jong jong jong yo. No it's

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Speaker 1: not gonna work. No, that's going to get the cutely

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Speaker 1: getting the cut. I thought you you know what cut it? You?

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Speaker 1: You always a delight and you must come back. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Cornell Belcher as President of Brilliant Corners Research and Strategies

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Speaker 1: and an MSNBC political analyst. Welcome to Fast Politics, Cornell Belcher.

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Speaker 1: I you have to say it really fast. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to have you on for a number reasons besides being

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Speaker 1: a fan, but almosto because you did a video the

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Speaker 1: other day, which is something that's actually quite close to

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Speaker 1: my heart, which is why the media, right wing, mainstream everybody, uh,

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Speaker 1: continues to be horrendous to the first female black East

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Speaker 1: Indian vice president ever, the highest level of woman has

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Speaker 1: ever gotten in American government. Like you clearly were moved

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Speaker 1: by something, and I wanted to ask you about that.

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Speaker 1: But but you know, it's not even just the the

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Speaker 1: just the mainstream and well, and I put the right,

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Speaker 1: you know, aside, because they're a hate echo chamber, but

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Speaker 1: but it's also those on the left who are also falling,

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Speaker 1: falling into these these sexiest tropes and certainly treating the

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Speaker 1: vice president in a way the first woman vice president

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Speaker 1: away that they absolutely didn't treat any man in and

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Speaker 1: ask questions of the vice president, this vice president and

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Speaker 1: demands of this vice president that they just didn't make

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Speaker 1: of any of the the the over twenty years of

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Speaker 1: men who said in this position, no, I mean that

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Speaker 1: is the thing that I have been so shocked by.

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Speaker 1: It just strikes me. And I mean liberals, conservatives, everyone,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know what they say. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: thing that I've heard so much since I've interviewed her

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Speaker 1: and had her on this podcast and also written about

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Speaker 1: it from anyffair is that, Um, they'll say. I can't

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Speaker 1: put my finger on it. I just don't like her.

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Speaker 1: We'll see. That's the thing. Okay, Look, it is fair.

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Speaker 1: It is completely fair and inbound to question policy initiatives.

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Speaker 1: And Okay, I disagree with the Biden administration on a

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Speaker 1: policy initiative. And the vice president was out talking about

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Speaker 1: this policy initiative. But understand, she's the vice president. It's

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Speaker 1: not like these are her policy and so her job

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Speaker 1: is to support and so I talked about it and

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Speaker 1: and and my video. The job device president is to

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Speaker 1: be the man beside the man, and for unfortunately it

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Speaker 1: has been for overturning years, the man beside the man,

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Speaker 1: and to smile and to dote on and to support

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Speaker 1: and then help him try and unfortunately it has always

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Speaker 1: been at him to help him try to sell and

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Speaker 1: move his policies. That's basically a job. But now in

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Speaker 1: the media, they're criticizing her for not showing leadership, you know,

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Speaker 1: in spaces that where the president isn't right. They want

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Speaker 1: her to be out in front on certain on issues,

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Speaker 1: and why isn't she out in front on this, and

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Speaker 1: why isn't she talking about this? And one of them

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Speaker 1: criticize her for not showing that the world that she

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Speaker 1: is ready to be leader of the party, much less

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Speaker 1: the United States. And I'm going, oh my god, that's

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Speaker 1: not the job of the president the vice president to

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Speaker 1: leave the administration to be a leader on any of

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Speaker 1: these things. The job is back to back up the president.

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Speaker 1: And so this criticism that's coming towards her about how

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Speaker 1: she's not out in front on X, Y and Z

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Speaker 1: sort of liberal issues that so many of them want

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Speaker 1: her so so so many of them want her to

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Speaker 1: be out in front on is you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: it's a double standard that you certainly didn't see them

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Speaker 1: calling out when Biden was president. I can't recall a

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Speaker 1: time where they were going, oh my god, I wish

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Speaker 1: Biden were out in front on X Y and Z issue,

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Speaker 1: you know, all right, that is the like the real

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Speaker 1: question here, and especially because during early days of this presidency.

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Speaker 1: She was accused of calling the strengths remember that, yes,

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Speaker 1: on the right, you know, And I understand in a

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Speaker 1: diabolical political way, I understand what the right was trying

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Speaker 1: to do when they were trying to call her sort

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Speaker 1: of the puppet master, like this old guy who's not

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Speaker 1: in control. And it's easy to vilify her because one again,

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Speaker 1: sexism is real in America. It's easy to vilify the woman,

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Speaker 1: and particularly a woman of color, right, and it is

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Speaker 1: easy to sort of vilify her and play into all

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Speaker 1: these race tropes and and sexism tropes around her. So

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Speaker 1: I get it from the right, and I understand it

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Speaker 1: from the right. I don't approve it from right, but

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Speaker 1: I do understand everyone right because that's how they rile

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Speaker 1: up their base, right. It is that it is this dark, evil, uh,

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Speaker 1: scary mean woman who we got to watch out for. Right,

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00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: this is the you know, it's the scary, scary black person.

429
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 1: I get that, that's that's historical. But what I don't

430
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: get is is it from the left and and it

431
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: and it goes to me it sort of speaks to

432
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: how even on the left there is implicit gender bias

433
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 1: that we just have to call out because there are

434
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: folks on the left who are criticizing her for things like,

435
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, not showing leader ship, not smiling enough, right,

436
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: And again those are never critiques that they've made of

437
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: men over the last two d plus years, because it's

438
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 1: not the job of the vice president to be out

439
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: in front and lead. No. I mean that is it's

440
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: such an important issue, and I think that until we

441
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: are willing to talk about it, we will continually make

442
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: this mistake as a country. And I think, like I

443
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: think about this a lot because you know, in the UK,

444
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher thirty years ago more. I mean, and we

445
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: in America just cannot break this misogyny that is preventing

446
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: us from letting female politicians really lead. No, I think

447
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: that's right, and that's such a good point. And you

448
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: point out most of the Western democracies have had and

449
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: quite frankly, any of those when when you think of India, etcetera.

450
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: I mean even in Asia. You know, most of the

451
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: modern democracies have had women leader. But why is it

452
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: that this still escapes us here? And I think when

453
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: you look at the way the double standard that applied

454
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: to the first woman to reach this high office and

455
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: the first woman of color to do it, I think

456
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: you begin to understand it. And even sort of in

457
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: Hillary's run. You know, some of the coverage of Hillary,

458
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: whether it be talking about her hair or how she

459
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: was dressed, it is such an overt double standard, and

460
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: I think we've got to call it out and we've

461
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: got to make it not okay for them to treat

462
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: women differently than how they treat men, or they're going

463
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 1: to continue to do it. And that was that was

464
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: my major point is to put is it put so

465
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: at least the mainstream media on notice, is that we

466
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: are going to start calling this out because if we

467
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: don't call it out, you're going to continue to do it.

468
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: A lot of like straight news reporters were furious about

469
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: the k Hive, right. They were really mad that there

470
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: were people on the internet defending the vice president and

471
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: that she had these super fans. They were really, really mad.

472
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: But the reality is that you know, Bernie had them.

473
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of politicians have super fans.

474
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: I mean Trump had, you know, super fans like you

475
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: can't believe. And the fact that this particular group was demonized,

476
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: I think does speak to this larger issue of she

477
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: is held to a completely different standard than male politicians are. Yeah,

478
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: and it makes it more difficult for women to rise

479
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: in these positions because of this double standard. When you

480
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: look at how difficult it has been for women to rise,

481
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: particularly in politics, and I look, and I was watching

482
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: this this video the other day about the great Nancy Pelosi.

483
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: You know, who's going down is the greatest you know,

484
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: speaker in modern American history. There was all of twenty

485
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: three women in Congress when when Nancy Pelosi arrived there,

486
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: and there's a lot more now. But look, even now,

487
00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: there's not enough representation, not enough women representatives in Congress

488
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: and certainly not in the in the Senate. And again,

489
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: I think what we're seeing level and at the vice

490
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: president is an attribute of this gender bias that makes

491
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: it so difficult for women to get a hit in

492
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: politics and had access to power. So last week we

493
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: had Nancy Pelosi on this podcast. You know, my parents

494
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: are that age, and I know how fragile people in

495
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: their eighties are, so you know, I was sort of

496
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: just horrified and even shocked that the family thought said

497
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: that he was going to make a full recovery, because

498
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: when you're at that age, you don't really know if

499
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: you'll ever you know what I mean. But she said

500
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: that the thing that got her the most upset was

501
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: she really worried that women were not going to run

502
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: because they were worried about their families. Well, yes, and

503
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: there is a culture, unfortunately, there is a culture of

504
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: violence broadly in this country that is second to none.

505
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: And let look and look, that's just faction. And and

506
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: we're going to pretend that there's also not a culture

507
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: of political violence in this country. As I was reading

508
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: Stokely Cartermichael's biography of of Stokely, and and we at

509
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: this section where where they talk about King's assassination and

510
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: how deeply, you know, painful it was for for Stokely,

511
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: and how he saw Hope, you know, slipping away, and

512
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: it talked about how Robert Kennedy talked about the violence

513
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: that had that he had seen, you know, taken his

514
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: brother and the violence had taken King, and of course

515
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: just months later Robert would be killed himself. Right, So

516
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: just so we we try to shove it under the road,

517
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: but there's such a history of violence in this country.

518
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: And and look, the we know that the members of

519
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: Congress are under more assault now than they have been

520
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: in the past, sort of more threats coming in against

521
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: them and in the past. And it's sort of the

522
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: bullying society that I think. You know, if you are

523
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: if you are a woman, and particularly if you're a

524
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: mom with with with with a family, you do have

525
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: to take that in consideration when you think about putting

526
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: yourself in your family out there in the public spotlight

527
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: and out there in the public arena, because there are vulnerabilities. Yeah,

528
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,479
Speaker 1: and I just I don't know, I just it is

529
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: such a real problem. And I mean, you know, we've

530
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: only had eleven African American senators, only two female African

531
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: American senators. You know, we have lived in this country

532
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: where there just is not a fair representation. I want

533
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: to ask you, what do you think about the South

534
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: Carolina primary move I actually like it and look and

535
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: as someone who worked for you know, both of the

536
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: you know, the Obama campaign, I have a fondness for

537
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: Iowa New Hampshire. It is very reflective of an old

538
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: style politic, especially in Iowa the CAUCUSUS. I think it's

539
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: also fair to say that we need more diversity upfront

540
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: and the primaries, and we need you know, more states

541
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: that are reflective of of how the country looks and

542
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: reflective of of of some of some of the broader

543
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: issues beyond beyond sort of these sort of smaller states

544
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: and more more agricultural states. I do think that's fair,

545
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: but I also understand why Iowa New Hampshire want to

546
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: hold on to their very right But I think you know,

547
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: when you put when you put Southfrolina and you put

548
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, Michigan, sort of these these bigger, more diverse

549
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: states and these in Georgia and these more you know,

550
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: industrial states, I think it does help candidate who's going

551
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: to be quite frankly able to speak to a broader

552
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: swath of the general actor. I think it prepares them

553
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 1: more to speak to and reach and win abroad us

554
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: wall of the general electric that Iowa New Hampshire. But

555
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: again I respected great respect for Hampshire. But I think

556
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: it was the right move for the for for the

557
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: party to do. I want to ask you about Biden's

558
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: polling because this is something that gainst me, well, I

559
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: just don't understand, I truly believe. I know you saw

560
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: this Washington Post ABC poll that came out earlier in

561
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: the week I saw it and thought, this can't be right.

562
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: So there was an ABC Washington Post poll that basically

563
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: showed his approval rating being it showed that no one

564
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: in the world wants to match up between Trump and Biden,

565
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: and then it's sort of put together a kind of

566
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: false equivalency of Biden and Trump. That is my hot take. Um,

567
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was wrong, and I wondered why,

568
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: and again, like we both saw the same pretty excellent

569
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: State of the Union speech last night, and I just

570
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: want to know, are the polls wrong? Are we wrong?

571
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: I mean what I mean, do you buy that his

572
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: popularity numbers are this? We're often looking for the wrong

573
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: things and polls, and we're looking for polls to do

574
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: something that that polls can't do because we want polls

575
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: to be crystal balls, because because we Americans always want

576
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: to know the future. That's not a job of a poll.

577
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: So you take the information that's in a poll that's

578
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: actionable and you should act on it. Look the in

579
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: Washington Post they are pretty darn good posters. Like there's

580
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of public polls that that are that

581
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: are that aren't very good. But but the Post is

582
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: is usually pretty good. But that said, look what do

583
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: I take from that pole. I take from that poll

584
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: that there is a large swath of Americans, the majority

585
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: of Americans, I think was of Americans or more who

586
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: have no idea what the president has done. I think

587
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: for a lot of US insiders who pay attention to politics,

588
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: a lot who read the newspaper or read online political articles,

589
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, several times a day. And you know, my

590
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: Twitter feed is full of smart people like you and

591
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: other reporters and what have you. It's easy for us

592
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: to understand that this president has been transformative in the

593
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: legislative way, the lights of which we probably haven't seen

594
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: since LBJ. When you look at the legislation that they

595
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: were remarkably able to move in just two years and

596
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: a very tightly divided Congress, it is remarkable. It is

597
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: a political experience and political gravitas on the part of

598
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: the President, Pelosi and Schumer that should go down in history.

599
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: I mean, for how many years have we heard presidents

600
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: talk about an infrastructure bill and none of them are

601
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: able to actually get it done. And they got it

602
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: done with a fifty fiftist but sent it. So what

603
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: they've been able to do is fairly remarkable. But the

604
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: American public they don't know it, they have no context

605
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: for it, and all they hear is negative news. So

606
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say thought, as I want to put this

607
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: in context of two things. One is I really do

608
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: when I do focus groups and listening to Americans around

609
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: the country, there is a disconnect with Washington because they

610
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: see the fighting and the negativism and the division, and

611
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: what I hear from them is they tune it out.

612
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: They don't want to pay attention to it because it's

613
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: always bad or sad news and it's always just fighting.

614
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: So they actually don't have a real grounding and understanding

615
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: of the tremendous work that President Buying has put in

616
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: on his behalf and his accomplishments. Because when you get

617
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: six percent of people saying that they don't think he's

618
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: done anything, when he's been one of the most accomplished

619
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: presidents since l B J. That's a real problem, right,

620
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: and it's actionable. And when you see the president and

621
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 1: vice president and members of the cabinet spread out like today,

622
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: like the presidents of the Wisconsin, the vice presidents in Georgia,

623
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: and that you've got cabinet members out all the parts

624
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: of country, talking about infrastructure, talking about climate change right,

625
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: and talking about their legislation. They've got this information and

626
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: they're and they're acting on it. But the second piece

627
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: of this I want to point out is that the

628
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: Republicans are crazy like like they're crazy like foxes. And

629
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is they all this negativism,

630
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: all this division, all this ugliness they constantly drive. It's

631
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: for purpose. It is to grow that cynicism about politics.

632
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: It is to grow this ideal that Washington is broken

633
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: and nothing can get done, and so I can just

634
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: tune out, and that's how they win. And I gotta

635
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: tell you right now, it is a real problem that

636
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: so many Americans are tuning out, and so many Americans

637
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: don't really understand what's happening in Washington, and that they're

638
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: cynical about Washington and think Washington is broken and the

639
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: President isn't doing anything. And in that context, that's how

640
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: Republicans win. Thanks for now, all right, Thanks for having me.

641
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I know you, our dear listeners, are

642
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: very busy and you don't have time to sort through

643
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: the hundreds of pieces of pundentry each week and This

644
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: is why every week I put together a newsletter of

645
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: my five favorite articles on politics. If you enjoy the podcast,

646
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: you will love having this in your inbox every Friday.

647
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: So sign up at Fast Politics pod dot com and

648
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: click the tab to join our mailing list. That's Fast

649
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: Politics pod dot com. Busy Phillips is an actress and

650
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: activist and host of Busy is Doing Her Best. Welcome

651
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Busy. Hey, how are you. We're good,

652
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: very excited to have you. Thank you. We're just talking.

653
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: You are a podcast host, among other things, and one

654
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: of the things I really have been wanting to talk

655
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: to you about for a long long time is your work,

656
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: your advocacy work around abortion. And I was curious. You know,

657
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: you come from acting. There's often like a lot of

658
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: pressure for actors not to be political. I mean, I

659
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: don't know if you came up in that world that way,

660
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: but did you feel that, Oh yeah, no, honey. I

661
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: came up in the world where I was like, you know,

662
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: if you didn't do the maximum hot one hundred, you

663
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: weren't going to have a film career, you know what

664
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 1: I mean. Like that was like I was definitely shut

665
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: up and hit your mark. And you're expendable and don't

666
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: make waves. And if a guy on set tells you

667
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: that they jacked off to you last night, you gotta

668
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: laugh and keep going with your day. So no, I

669
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: definitely was of the era that taking like real political

670
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: stands isn't a safe thing to do, especially as a

671
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: woman in the industry. You know, I think that just

672
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: collectively that as the all of the tides started turning.

673
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: I was always a person that was politically active and

674
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: motivated behind the scenes. I mean, I threw my own

675
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: fundraisers in my twenties with my friends for different candidates,

676
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: and I remember going to see Barack Obama speak when

677
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: he was running for senator, paid to go to some

678
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: fundraiser in Los Angeles to see this new superstar of

679
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: the party, and always like gave money to Planned Parenthood,

680
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: but never was going to be vocal about the fact

681
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: that I had had an abortion when I was fifteen

682
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: years old, or that bodily autonomy is you know, all right,

683
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: and then we all that we all deserve, you know. Again,

684
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: Also though it's the same, I'm gen X. I guess

685
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm on the younger side. I guess of gen X, right,

686
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: I'm forty four and Jesse is forty five. I'm forty three. Guys,

687
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: we're in a row, okay. You know, by design, our

688
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: generation was told that row was safe, that this work

689
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: had been done. And you know, I was very busy

690
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: building my career in Los Angeles and traveling for work,

691
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: and I wasn't Also, you know, this is like before

692
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: the twenty four news cycle, and then even when it started,

693
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: we didn't get the you know, trap laws that were

694
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: passing in different states and the slow but sure chipping

695
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: away at the rights. I mean, I just want to

696
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: get back to this for a second, because I do think.

697
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: I so we're the same age, older than you are,

698
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: but we'll just pretend we're the same age. We're all

699
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: in high school at the same time, exactly. Yes, But

700
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: you know, when I came up, I mean, I think

701
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: for actresses, there was a real feeling that you weren't

702
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: supposed to talk about politics, and you know this whole

703
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: men's magazine thing, which you know, I was writing in

704
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: magazines back then, and there were these men's magazines. And

705
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: it's funny because I was watching like an old episode

706
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: of thirty Rock and they were so disgustingly misogynistic. I

707
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: mean to the point where I mean just terrific. You

708
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: don't know to tell me. I mean, you know, I

709
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: was there, I was in one and it was like

710
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: I was like a holdout. I didn't want to do it.

711
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding you when I say I had

712
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 1: a general meeting with the head of casting at a big,

713
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: huge studio. I was on Dawson's Creek at the time,

714
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: and I wanted a film career, like I wanted to

715
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: do movies, and at the very least I wanted to

716
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: do another TV show. When Dawson's Creek was over, and

717
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: the head of casting at this studio pulled out multiple

718
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: issues of Maximum, f h M and Stuff magazine and

719
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: said to me, look, I'll be honest with you. At

720
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: every executive, every person making creative decisions and signing off,

721
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: you know, they send me these lists, so these girls,

722
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: and they say, let's get her in a movie? When

723
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: can we put her in? If you don't do one

724
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: of these, you know, you're just you're effectively you know,

725
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: you might not have of the upper hand of of

726
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: a woman that does. He probably didn't say woman. You know,

727
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: and I was twenty one and I'm like, Okay, I

728
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: guess I'll like put on some a bathing suit and

729
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: crawl around on the floor of a studio for a

730
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: couple hours, and it's like horrifying in retrospect, you know that.

731
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: I mean, that's also why I love being on Girls

732
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: BYBA too, because we get to skewer that so very

733
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 1: specific time um and culture. But you know, I think that, yeah,

734
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: no one wanted to hear what my views were, no,

735
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: and so I do think it's very brave. So what

736
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: explain to me the thinking of when you came out

737
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: and told the story? Also fifteen? I mean, I got

738
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: sober when I was nineteen, so I relate to having

739
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: like a very complicated teenage hood. But to come forward

740
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: with that story is particularly brave. So how did you

741
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: make the decision to do it? Well, I actually knew

742
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: that it was always something I wanted to do, talk

743
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: about come forward with, and after sort of the advent

744
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: of social media and my own Instagram becoming very popular

745
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: my Instagram stories, I finally got a book deal, which

746
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: is what I literally had always wanted. I had always

747
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: wanted to write a book, and part of it was

748
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: that I thought that that was where I was going

749
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: to best be able to tell that version of a

750
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: story as opposed to talking to a reporter about it

751
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: in stuff magazine like can you imagine? Can you even imagine? Right? No, No,

752
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: I remember and Gear and I mean they were just

753
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 1: they were just one was worse in the next. Yes,

754
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: they were all terrible. So I knew that that was

755
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: the opportunity that I was going to take in order

756
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: to talk about my pregnancy and abortion at age fifteen.

757
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: You know, and my late night talk show that was

758
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: on the E network for about a year almost was

759
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: coming out. It coincided with my book coming out. Everything

760
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 1: was happening all at once, like as as it does

761
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: in these things. And I was actually very surprised when

762
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: my book came out that the story about my abortion

763
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: didn't get much traction. And writing a memoir is a

764
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: certain kind of therapy, and hell yes, and then releasing

765
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: it into the world as another that no one can

766
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: prepare you for. I had sort of, I don't know,

767
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: I feel like I had really prepared myself for a

768
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 1: lot of negative responses to the abortion story, and then

769
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: all anyone wanted to talk about was like James Franco,

770
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: my relationship from freaks and geeks. I'm sorry, I mean

771
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: that like really hurts. And also I am sorry. I

772
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: mean it's like it was not last on me. You know.

773
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: The point that I was making in the entire book

774
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: was just about my experience as a woman growing up

775
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: at this particular time in history, and then being in

776
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry during this time in history being asked

777
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: about James Franco. Literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and

778
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of headlines about my book my memoir

779
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: are about James Franco. Amazing, just like, well, there you go.

780
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 1: You can't win, you can't win even still. But then

781
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: you know, because I had the talk show, you know,

782
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: this is when en was when these like you know,

783
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: they started really testing the waters. After you know, they've

784
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: gone as far as they could go with these trap laws,

785
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: and they started passing the extreme abortion bills in different states,

786
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: and Ohio was one of them. And and you grew

787
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: up in Ohio, Georgia, No no, no. I I grew

788
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: up in Arizona, which had had their owners. Yes, ship

789
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: show of a of a pre statehood band is what

790
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: they reinstituted for a minute in Arizona. But thankfully that

791
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: crazy woman didn't win. And it is carry like I

792
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: didn't want to say her name. I was like literally

793
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: not saying her name on her bost like Baltimore, right,

794
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: don't say it she is. I don't want her to

795
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: like be famous. I don't want her to have name recognition. No,

796
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: she's horrible, but no. It was when Georgia passed their

797
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 1: extreme abortion band and also coupled that with a story

798
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: that came out from Ohio about a child. No I

799
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: remember that story, Yeah, not the one that the Republicans

800
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: accused people of making up. This is a different one.

801
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: This is and the child was my child's age, And

802
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: all I could think was like, oh my god, that's

803
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: a little kid, Like that's a little little little kid.

804
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: What's happening. I reached out to like friends of mine

805
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: who had been like very active in the pro choice

806
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: space over the years and that I knew a little

807
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: bit from that space, and asked them what they thought

808
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: about me talking about my abortion on my show. You know,

809
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: it's like what we say, right, like representation matters for moments,

810
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: like for cultural moments like this, And so we made

811
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: the decision. My showrunner, Casey, my friend who I do

812
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: my podcast with Casey, and I made the decision. I

813
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: talked to a bunch of people. I talked to Center

814
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: for reuper Rights and Planned Parenthood and you know, uh,

815
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: they roll and just got everyone sort of take on

816
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: what they feel felt in that moment was an important

817
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 1: piece of the messaging, you know. And then we kind

818
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: of like zeroed in on making it not too long,

819
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: because you know, Lord knows men can talk for twenty

820
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: five minutes about something, but we felt like we should

821
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: keep it under two. And the point that I really

822
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: wanted to get across is that if you think this

823
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: isn't going to affect you, it has already. You are

824
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: friends with people, you know, people that need this is

825
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 1: an essential part of health care and being a person

826
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: and controlling your own life and making decisions that are

827
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 1: best for you and your family, not because a politician

828
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: arbitrarily has decided it goes against his religious beliefs and whatever.

829
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: I mean, we can, you know, we can get into

830
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: the whole history of that anyway. Were you shocked at

831
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: the response? I was definitely like prepared for the worst,

832
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: and what I got instead was absolutely the greatest. And

833
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: I've never felt better. I mean, Okay, not hyperbolically. If

834
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: I only had that talk show for this re in

835
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 1: and that is enough, that was it. That was everything

836
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: to me. And sometimes I actually think about that because

837
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: the fact that I even did it and had this

838
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: idea and wanted to do it was so weird. And

839
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: there is a part of me that thinks, like, oh,

840
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: you had to do it so that you could do

841
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: this in this moment, because after you know, it was

842
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: a real moment in the in the movement, and like

843
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: in terms of getting people to pay attention and realize

844
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: what's happening with the extreme abortion bands and of course

845
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: mant people you know, did not take it seriously or

846
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: didn't think it would happen to their state or for

847
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: any number of it never thought Rowe was gonna solve

848
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: and also just destigmatizing being able to say, oh, yeah,

849
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 1: I had an abortion as well. I mean I had

850
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: friends who literally didn't know that the d n c

851
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: s that they had were abortions and that's still true.

852
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god. People getting people to understand that is wild. Yeah.

853
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: I just wrote Peace a couple of weeks ago, and

854
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: it was inspired by talking to Rob and Marty. I

855
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: don't know if you know her, she wrote the post

856
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 1: row hand. She runs a women's health center in Alabama,

857
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 1: and we were talking about, you know, now they can't

858
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: do abortions there, but they do maternal fetal health and

859
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: they do early stage pregnancy stuff. And she was telling

860
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: me she has all these people who have miscarriages and

861
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 1: they can't get the treatment from miscarriages, and they never

862
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: put it together, you know, they never put it together. No,

863
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: they never did. I had a discussion with a friend

864
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: who had had a lot of fertility issues and had

865
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: had many miscarriages and then because of that had to

866
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: have the aftercare which is considered and all of these

867
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: places where abortion is effectively illegal to be abortion and

868
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: they will not do it. They won't do it. And

869
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: my friend was like arguing with me. She's like, no,

870
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: that's it's not that's not what it's I'm like, honey,

871
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,439
Speaker 1: I literally I'm like on the board of these things now,

872
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: Like I know, I get the emails that aren't just

873
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: like you donate money emails. I get like the real

874
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 1: emails from these people. They're not They're denying women care

875
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: and regardless you know, of whether it's a choice or

876
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: medically necessary or rape or incest or like, you know,

877
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: qualifying this has only done exactly what the men and

878
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: the readers of the you know, anti choice movement want

879
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: to do, which is make that some some are morally

880
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: better than others. Like you don't get to beat You're

881
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: not the arbiter of that. That's not for you to decide.

882
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: That is for me and my doctor, my god, my partners,

883
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: my parents, and stay out of it, stay out of

884
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: my body. Dude. Yeah, no, no, I agree, And I

885
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: think that's a really important point. I also, do you

886
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: think this idea of sharing our experience to help others

887
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: and you know, I say this is someone who's sober

888
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: like is really profound and useful. Yes. And also I

889
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 1: am a person who holds space for friends and people

890
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: who I don't know who it's re traumatizing for them,

891
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: and they don't want to do it. They don't want

892
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: to share whatever the experience, whether it's a sexual assault

893
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: or their abortion or their you know, miscarriage and abortion

894
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: care after. People have all kinds of feelings about things.

895
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: But I do know from my own personal experience that

896
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: sharing my story about my abortion freed me from holding

897
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: a shame that I didn't even know I was still

898
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: holding onto Yeah. Oh, I believe that that's really interesting

899
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: and I think it is important. I mean, I definitely

900
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: feel that way about sharing my sobriety. You know, I

901
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: really do get more from sharing it than of people do,

902
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: If that makes any sense. It does make sense. And

903
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: I think that part of the piece of the conversation

904
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: that keeps coming up and then getting missed and then

905
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: coming up again is this is this empathy piece, and

906
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: that for us to be able politically or otherwise exist

907
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: in this states, these states, very disparate states, with lots

908
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: of different people, with lots of different views, we have

909
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: to be able to hold a bunch of truths at

910
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: one time. And it's not something that political news and

911
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, pundits and like how everything is, you know, politics,

912
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: how everything is turned into like this sort of game

913
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 1: show in our culture. It's not something that is encouraged

914
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: in our society right now. But it is the only

915
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: thing that ever crosses party lines and bridges people together,

916
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: which is just empathy, the and storytelling and sharing between

917
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: each other so that you can understand and by the way,

918
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: you don't even have to understand, but you can at

919
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 1: least get a sense of someone else's humanity. Busy Phillips,

920
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Oh my gosh,

921
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: thank you. It was so nice to talk to you.

922
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, Molly john Fast. I heard you were at

923
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: some fancy dinner last night. I was at a congressional

924
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: media dinner, and at this dinner was a person who

925
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: supposedly hates the media and does not care what they

926
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 1: think and things they are all liars and cheaters, get

927
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: showed up to a thing where they're going to smooze

928
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: with the media. Sounds like them. And her name is

929
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Space Laser's Green. I think it's really important

930
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: that we in the mainstream media make a concerted effort

931
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: to launder the career of a woman who came to

932
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: power on Q and on and anti Semitism. And while

933
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: she has nice stresses and can go to parties and

934
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: look like every reasonable person, she's not a reasonable person

935
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: and she should not be laundered, and we cannot treat

936
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: her like a normal congress person. And so as she

937
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: is on her rehabilitation tour, I say this is our

938
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: moment of gray. Do not help rehabilitate Marjorie Taylor Green.

939
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

940
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

941
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: and politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

942
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

943
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.