WEBVTT - Heavy Metal Pt II

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck and Jerry's here too for part two of our

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<v Speaker 2>episodes on heavy metal the Music. Sorry all you ken

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<v Speaker 2>majors who showed up with different expectations.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you like to see the pope on the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the rope? Do you think he's a fool?

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<v Speaker 2>What is that?

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<v Speaker 1>That's Sabbath which my brother always laughed at that line

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<v Speaker 1>which it's on. I think it's on Master of Reality.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know the name of the song. I think

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<v Speaker 1>I said end of the rope, end of a rope. Obviously.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll bet your brother thought that it's funny.

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<v Speaker 1>He did. Yeah, I think that's the only thing he

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<v Speaker 1>knows about Black Sabbath, which is hysterical.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of it is pretty comical, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, and I guess let's go ahead and

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<v Speaker 1>kick off part two with talking about Ozzie, because this

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<v Speaker 1>is a section where we're going to talk about some

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<v Speaker 1>some contra Ozzie and his day certainly had a few

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<v Speaker 1>of them. He was kicked out of Black Sabbath in

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<v Speaker 1>the late seventies because he partied too hard for Black

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<v Speaker 1>Sabbath even he was replaced by the great Ronnie James

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<v Speaker 1>Dio and went on to have a solo career. But

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<v Speaker 1>there are a couple of things that happened in his life,

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<v Speaker 1>notably biting the heads off of things that gained him

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of attention. At one CBS sales convention, he

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<v Speaker 1>was supposed to release these live doves and instead he

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<v Speaker 1>bit the heads off of them. And the story has

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<v Speaker 1>changed a lot over the years, so depending on who

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<v Speaker 1>you're talking to is what version. But he bit the

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<v Speaker 1>head off of one to shock people in a room,

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<v Speaker 1>and apparently was being let out, bit the head off

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<v Speaker 1>the other. There are also people that said that they

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<v Speaker 1>were not alive at the time. The same thing when

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<v Speaker 1>he bit the head off of a bat in Des

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<v Speaker 1>Moines nineteen eighty two on stage when somebody threw a

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<v Speaker 1>bat on stage right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And somebody tracked down the guy who threw the

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<v Speaker 2>bat and he said that bat had been dead for days.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Mark Neil and I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>What is worse, biting the head off of a live

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<v Speaker 2>bat or biting the half of a bat that's been

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<v Speaker 2>sitting around dead for a couple of days.

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<v Speaker 1>I I don't know, flip a coin, buddy.

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<v Speaker 2>Either way, I've I've reached a point in my life

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<v Speaker 2>where I can't even take talking about like that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the way. I just don't kill the dog's That's

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<v Speaker 2>where I've gotten to in life.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I'm with you, you know. Yeah, I mean he

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<v Speaker 1>snorted live ants beside a swimming pool on tourd Motley

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<v Speaker 1>Crue and I feel bad for those ants.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly what did they do? Like, you know, nothing?

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<v Speaker 2>I think Ozzie was a cool dude in a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of ways, but he was also very hard to get around,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was one reason why I got kicked out

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<v Speaker 2>of Black Sabbath. Like some people like Dave Mustain, like Ozzie,

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<v Speaker 2>like their bandmates were partying as hard as they were,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes harder, but they didn't turn into evil. Yeah, who

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<v Speaker 2>would like get in your face or try to kill you,

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<v Speaker 2>or like try to do something horrible and like ruin

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<v Speaker 2>everybody's time. That's how you would get kicked out of

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<v Speaker 2>a heavy metal band, by being such a jerk that

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<v Speaker 2>your bandmates are like, we can't put up with this anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to replace you. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that was definitely the case with Mustaane. I

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<v Speaker 1>think Ozzie was a little more. His reliability became an issue.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh is that right?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I think that was a deal. But we should

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<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit. I know we covered it in

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<v Speaker 1>the Satanic Panic episode, but you can't have a metal

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<v Speaker 1>episode without talking a little bit about the Parents Music

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<v Speaker 1>Resource Center the PMRC in nineteen eighty five, led by

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<v Speaker 1>Tipper Gore, al Gore's wife. At one point, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they own a mission to clean up music into it

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<v Speaker 1>at the very least to get ratings on record albums.

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<v Speaker 1>So at one point they released their Filthy fifteen of

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<v Speaker 1>the filthiest fifteen songs, and nine out of the fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>were either metal or hard rock bands.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean def Leppard, Come on.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean they're they're considered metal, but I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what song that would have even been.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's what I'm saying, not whether or not they're metal.

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<v Speaker 2>Same with the CDC and Twisted's sister, Like, what are

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<v Speaker 2>these guys singing about that you need to censor? Like

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<v Speaker 2>give me a break, Venom and Merciful Fate again. I

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<v Speaker 2>get why suburban parents were scared of these guys. They

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<v Speaker 2>were like legit like, hey, let's talk about Satan and

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<v Speaker 2>how Brady is and how much you suck religious people.

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<v Speaker 2>So yes, I'm sure, and I'm not saying like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they deserve to be censored. I get that one. But

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<v Speaker 2>Mandonna Prince def Leppard, like it's just it was. It

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<v Speaker 2>just goes to show you how preposterous the whole thing was.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, a lot of people say it worked. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's how we ended up with the warning explicit lyrics sticker,

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<v Speaker 2>which actually helped a lot of hip hop groups sell

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<v Speaker 2>more records.

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<v Speaker 1>You mean the Badge of Honor exactly. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But some people say that MTV actually kind of was

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<v Speaker 2>under pressure to stop showing as much heavy metal, and

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<v Speaker 2>that heavy metal got pushed a little bit out of

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<v Speaker 2>the mainstream. Yeah, but instead on Tonight like the two

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<v Speaker 2>hour version of Hebbanger's Ball every week, which is not

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<v Speaker 2>a lot compared to what it used to be. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if we said, but Iron Maiden had

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<v Speaker 2>not one, but two videos played on MTV in the

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<v Speaker 2>first twenty four hours that MTV was on the air,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think they were played more than once, and

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<v Speaker 2>the first one was sandwiched in between Rod Stewart's Sailing

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<v Speaker 2>and Ario Speedwagons Keep On Loving You.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the rotation for MTV was eclectic, for sure,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's kind of what people liked about it for

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<v Speaker 1>the most part, because it was way more eclectic than

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<v Speaker 1>FM radio, even because that was generally genre and they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't jump around from Madonna to Iron Maiden on radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Now for the most part. I mean, maybe there might

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<v Speaker 1>be some like maybe k Rock was doing something like that,

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<v Speaker 1>but generally you had to go to MTV to get

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<v Speaker 1>metal at all. And then when they sequestered it to

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<v Speaker 1>Headbanger's Ball, initially I think it was called the Heavy

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<v Speaker 1>Metal Mania hosted by de Snyder, but then it became

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<v Speaker 1>Headbanger's Ball with once again the great Ricky Rockman. Love

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<v Speaker 1>that guy. At least then metal heads had a place

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<v Speaker 1>to go where you could really sink in for a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of hours, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>For sure. The same with Member one hundred and twenty minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>For New Rivers, that was Matt Benfield.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you want to see a bow House video, that's

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<v Speaker 2>where you go.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you want to know our metal bona fides people,

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<v Speaker 2>we've been in the same room as d Snyder. He

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<v Speaker 2>nodded to us once in passing in a hallway.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, Headbanger's Ball also had some tours in North

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<v Speaker 2>America when it was really big eighty seven, eighty nine,

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<v Speaker 2>and ninety two, so.

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<v Speaker 1>They really a festival thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, pretty much cool. Yeah, And then I think also

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<v Speaker 2>we should we should mention too that one of the

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<v Speaker 2>things about metal is that it has been and I

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<v Speaker 2>think still remained pretty white, working class male for the

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<v Speaker 2>most part, but it's definitely gotten more diverse than it

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<v Speaker 2>was in the mid eighties.

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<v Speaker 1>Say yeah, I mean there weren't a lot of bands.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there were bands like Bad Brains that was

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<v Speaker 1>way more punk but had metal sort of sounds with

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<v Speaker 1>their guitar love Bad Brains, body Count came around. They

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<v Speaker 1>were I mean, I think they were for sure kind

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<v Speaker 1>of speed.

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<v Speaker 2>Metal, yeah, but with with iced tea wrapping.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I saw them at that Lallapalooza. I'm not gonna

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<v Speaker 1>include Living Color at all. Does Sorry, Olivia, there.

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<v Speaker 2>No Vernon Reid's guitar playing is metal?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I listened to the song Glamour Boys,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, come on, well, that's kind of hair metally

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<v Speaker 1>Glamour Boys, is it? Hey?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, speaking of hair metal, I forgot one great hair

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<v Speaker 2>metal band, let's hear it that came out.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I thought you're gonna say Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>No, Europe's definitely in there with the Final Count. Yeah, No,

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<v Speaker 2>the Darkness. They're a great hair metal band, even though

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<v Speaker 2>they're like, I guess, tongue in cheek. I think they

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<v Speaker 2>know that their tongue in cheek. But they're really great

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<v Speaker 2>as far as hair metal music goes. There talented musicians.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think there was a wave around then where

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<v Speaker 1>people started to kind of try to evoke that thing again,

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<v Speaker 1>and The Darkness was in that group.

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<v Speaker 2>And then Fishbone that was another all black band that

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<v Speaker 2>you could make a case had some definite metal tendencies

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<v Speaker 2>for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Not Living Color, definitely Fishbone. I loved Fishbone. Truth

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<v Speaker 1>and Soul is one of the great albums of all time,

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<v Speaker 1>and I saw them several times in concert.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, and then also Living Color featuring Vernon Reed. And

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<v Speaker 2>we talked a little bit about women too, right. We

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<v Speaker 2>talked about Elisa White Gloves from Arch Enemy. She's actually

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<v Speaker 2>the second woman singer for Arch Enemy. There was a

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<v Speaker 2>singer named Angela Gossau who was I think I replaced

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<v Speaker 2>the original male singer of Arch Enemy again, a melodic

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<v Speaker 2>Swedish death metal band. And then there's another metal queen

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<v Speaker 2>out there who at least used to be a stuff

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<v Speaker 2>you should know listener named Nita Strauss.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Nita's great. Met her backstage because she was kind

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<v Speaker 1>enough to invite us to the Motley Cruz show where

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<v Speaker 1>she plays still plays with Alice Cooper band, And I

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<v Speaker 1>met Nita and she's super awesome and I think she's

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<v Speaker 1>since gotten married, So congratulations on that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she's also in Iron Maidens, the Iron Maiden all

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<v Speaker 2>women Iron Maiden cover band.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. And guess what that Judas pre show

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to, Anita will be there because Alice Cooper's

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<v Speaker 1>opening up.

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<v Speaker 2>Awesome, dude. Well hopefully she hears this.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope so, because we're not in touch or anything.

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<v Speaker 1>I just remember she was super sweet and was big

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<v Speaker 1>into science. That's really cool man kind of a science. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's great guitar.

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<v Speaker 2>Player for sure. Speaking of Jewish Priest, are you going

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<v Speaker 2>to dress like a leather daddy to the Judas Priest show.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to dress like a leather daddy because

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have those clothes and I wouldn't want to

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<v Speaker 1>Just what do you call that appropriate? Like a legit

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<v Speaker 1>style for a demographic, But yeah, I mean that's definitely

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<v Speaker 1>a heavy metal The leather and studs is a heavy

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<v Speaker 1>metal trope like no.

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<v Speaker 2>Other where did it come from, Chuck?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean probably Rob Halford and going to underground gay

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<v Speaker 1>clubs in London would be my guest.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's right. All of the like black leather, metal

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<v Speaker 2>studded look that permeates heavy metal still in part to

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<v Speaker 2>this day, came from gay BDSM clubs that Rob Halford,

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<v Speaker 2>as far as I know, the only out LGBTQ medal

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<v Speaker 2>singer went to while he was still very much in

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<v Speaker 2>the closet.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think it's great. It's amazing. I can't wait

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<v Speaker 1>to see. I'll send you videos and stuff, Okay, please

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<v Speaker 1>do Yeah, just you, not everybody. That's maybe I'll post

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<v Speaker 1>some on my Instagram account at Chuck the Podcaster, so

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<v Speaker 1>be looking for that this fall.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, fine, so Chuck. Speaking of tropes like dressing like

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<v Speaker 2>a leather daddy to be a metal god, there's actually

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<v Speaker 2>a few others that are. They're not necessarily like oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a characteristic of metal. They're just things that

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<v Speaker 2>bands have done and copied each other on over the

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<v Speaker 2>years that now people say like, this is a characteristic

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<v Speaker 2>of metal, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I have to mention the decorative umlaut.

0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.319
<v Speaker 1>It's one of the funniest, kind of greatest things and

0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.760
<v Speaker 1>one of the biggest except for I think Blue Oyster Cult,

0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.400
<v Speaker 1>who I don't consider metal. They have the umlout over

0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:37.360
<v Speaker 1>the oh and the oyster, but it became very metal.

0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.120
<v Speaker 1>There's no other way to make anything seem metal in

0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.679
<v Speaker 1>writing than to There's certain fonts that we'll talk about,

0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.280
<v Speaker 1>but if you throw a couple of decorative umwouts in there,

0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.160
<v Speaker 1>it just looks more metal.

0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think even Scandinavian bands that have their own thing,

0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:56.959
<v Speaker 2>which is the the forward slash going through the oh yeah,

0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.600
<v Speaker 2>I think they actually in some cases place that with

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.800
<v Speaker 2>an umlaut. That's how metal the umlaud is.

0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:03.319
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow.

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And apparently a rock critic named Richard Metzler claims

0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.720
<v Speaker 2>that he was the one who told Blue Oyster Cult

0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.680
<v Speaker 2>to use that to use in umlaut. Unnecessarily, people say

0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:15.439
<v Speaker 2>that Blue Oyster Cult was the one who did that

0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.960
<v Speaker 2>like you said. And Richard Meltzer or Metzler also claims

0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.520
<v Speaker 2>to be the one who suggests that they use more

0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:23.720
<v Speaker 2>cow bell in their music.

0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, I didn't see that coming somehow.

0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, makes me very happy.

0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:35.439
<v Speaker 1>Very nice. Classical music is an inspiration is definitely. I

0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.040
<v Speaker 1>don't even call it a trope. It's just a thing

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:44.360
<v Speaker 1>in metal, the theatricality, the virtuosity and that technical ability.

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.439
<v Speaker 1>You know, you'll find that many heavy metal league guitarists

0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.400
<v Speaker 1>were schooled in classical not the least of which is

0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.040
<v Speaker 1>the great Randy Rhodes, who we'll talk about later. And

0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.559
<v Speaker 1>Eddie van Halen, you know, took you know, classical piano

0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.320
<v Speaker 1>lessons and stuff like that when he was a kid

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:05.040
<v Speaker 1>piano player. Yeah, not a metal god, but yeah, so

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.360
<v Speaker 1>classical for sure.

0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The thing is one thing to understand about metal

0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 2>across the board, in any genre or subgenre, is there

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.920
<v Speaker 2>are very few bands where that make music where you

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 2>can suck. You essentially have to be an expert, extremely

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.440
<v Speaker 2>talented musician to play metal. Even the stuff that you're like,

0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.600
<v Speaker 2>what is this? If you actually stopped and listened to

0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 2>the layers, the composition, the time signatures like this, is

0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:36.679
<v Speaker 2>really complex, complicated music in every single subgenre. So like

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:41.920
<v Speaker 2>metal as a whole. As a group, metal musicians tend

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 2>to be about as talented as you'll find in any

0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 2>rock outfit by far.

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they all have chops. That was another thing that

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.319
<v Speaker 1>got me a little bit into metal was I started

0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 1>playing guitar when I was thirteen and immediately subscribed to

0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Guitar Player magazine, which was I mean, that's how I

0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.199
<v Speaker 1>knew about all those guitar players. Emily always makes fun

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.720
<v Speaker 1>of me when she's like, uh, Judas Priest said, I'll

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 1>go Glenn tipped it in KK Downing, and I can

0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.400
<v Speaker 1>name all these guitar players. It's from pouring over that magazine. Like,

0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.800
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't even that into Judas Priest, but I knew

0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 1>these guys from these articles.

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, I still to this day lament that I

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.320
<v Speaker 2>had a terrible teacher for electric guitar on my Salmon

0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.560
<v Speaker 2>colored I don't even remember what kind of guitar it was,

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 2>but I remember I complained about him before and someone

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.120
<v Speaker 2>who had that same teacher wrote in and was like,

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.640
<v Speaker 2>I know exactly what you're talking about. That guy sucked.

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, who knows what could have happened.

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:37.760
<v Speaker 2>They even told me the band. I can't remember what

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 2>the band was. I wouldn't name check him anyway, because

0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to shame the guy. But he was

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.640
<v Speaker 2>a terrible guitar teacher and I was really into it

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>at the time.

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Well that I got a BC Rich candy Apple read

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.280
<v Speaker 1>bc Rich guitar because of that early sort of hard

0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.600
<v Speaker 1>rock influence. Because it's kind of a corny guitar. Now,

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.880
<v Speaker 1>did not get a warlock For people who know BC

0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Rich guitars, that's one of the most metal looking guitars ever.

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh is it like the triangle, the flying triangle? No?

0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:05.200
<v Speaker 1>No, no, that's a flying bee.

0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, bitch, they don't call it the flying triangle.

0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.080
<v Speaker 1>It can. The flying bee can definitely be metal. But

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.680
<v Speaker 1>it also has been used in a lot of classic rock.

0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, what's the one you're talking about.

0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.520
<v Speaker 1>I'll send you a picture of it. It's you'd know

0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.000
<v Speaker 1>it as soon as you saw it. Okay, you probably

0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 1>don't have your phone though, right, Oh, there it is.

0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:26.720
<v Speaker 1>I'll send it to you and you'll text me after

0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 1>what else?

0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Check anything else?

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean you got to mention Lord of the

0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Rings because we kind of joked about it. But Lord

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 1>of the Rings has been in a lot of metal songs,

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 1>like figuratively, like thematically and literally yes, so.

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's like the like led Zeppelin song about the

0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Darkest Steps of Mortar, and all sorts of other stuff

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.760
<v Speaker 2>too and throughout like their whole catalog. I think who

0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.239
<v Speaker 2>who else was well known for that. I think Megadeth

0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.320
<v Speaker 2>had a song that was based on Aragon's speech in

0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 2>the Return of the King. Like it's a really recurring

0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 2>it is. It's a trope. There's no other way to

0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 2>put it. It's been in heavy metal from the outset

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.480
<v Speaker 2>still through today. People are referencing it in some ways.

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 2>In some cases, like like there's a group called Bursom.

0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 2>It was a solo project by varg Vicarnes. He was

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:24.000
<v Speaker 2>imprisoned for murdering former bandmate Uronymous from Mayhew and then

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 2>he was also charged with burning down churches in the

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.880
<v Speaker 2>He's from black metal scene anyway, does not talk about

0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Lord of the Rings stuff at all, and yet it's

0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.640
<v Speaker 2>still from Lord of the Rings. Bursom is But this,

0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 2>I think kind of gets across how black metal. The

0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Bursom project was. Bursom in Lord of the Rings means

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.440
<v Speaker 2>darkness in the black speech that's spoken in Mordar. So

0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:54.400
<v Speaker 2>it's dark in the darkest place, and it means darkness

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.200
<v Speaker 2>in that dark place language. That's how That's how dark

0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 2>that black metal was.

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 1>And their album cover is Banta black.

0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:04.000
<v Speaker 2>No light can escape from it.

0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 1>We should also mention we'll take you break here in

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.639
<v Speaker 1>a second. We should also mention the Gothic font I

0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.760
<v Speaker 1>mentioned fonts. You gotta have the right font on your

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 1>metal album. Sabbath definitely was kind of one of the first.

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.360
<v Speaker 1>I think their album Sabbath Bloody Sabbath used the old

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.879
<v Speaker 1>English black letter typeface, and there's nothing spooky you're looking

0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:25.240
<v Speaker 1>than black letter, you know.

0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 2>No for sure. But what's hilarious is it's just evolved

0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.120
<v Speaker 2>and evolved and evolved to where very frequently you run

0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.159
<v Speaker 2>across a metal album cover and you'll be like, what,

0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.400
<v Speaker 2>what is the band's name? I can't I can't decipher

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:37.879
<v Speaker 2>this at all.

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:38.679
<v Speaker 1>I can't even read it.

0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:40.920
<v Speaker 2>It's just so tangled, like I can't tell what it says.

0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes when you find out the band's name, you'll be like, oh, okay,

0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.280
<v Speaker 2>I see it now, But other times I still don't

0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 2>see it.

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.720
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty funny. It's like a it's very spinal tab.

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes it is. Yeah, and they definitely should at

0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.200
<v Speaker 2>least get name checked in this episode.

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah. Absolutely. In fact, just today at their neutral

0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 1>tailor for the Spinal Tap sequel dropped. Uh yeah, d

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't look good that great. But I don't know,

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna definitely see it. I'm withholding judgment.

0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.040
<v Speaker 2>It just it doesn't look very good.

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.520
<v Speaker 1>No, I think it was just I don't know. I mean,

0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.360
<v Speaker 1>it's a good enough concept, like get the old band

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.320
<v Speaker 1>back together for one more show. So it's not like

0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:25.600
<v Speaker 1>the idea isn't solid, like that's a very like realistic

0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 1>thing for an old metal band. I just I don't know.

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.320
<v Speaker 1>We'll see, all right, So enough of fine, so let's

0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.240
<v Speaker 1>take a break and we'll talk about some brain stuff

0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.520
<v Speaker 1>and album covers and social views and all that fun

0:18:37.520 --> 0:19:06.120
<v Speaker 1>stuff right after this, all.

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Right, Chuck. So, if you are not a metal listener,

0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.920
<v Speaker 2>but you're aware of heavy metal just in general, you're

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 2>probably associated with satanic stuff. And again, yeah, in some

0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.520
<v Speaker 2>cases you're absolutely right, and not like Satanic in the

0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Satanic temple or Satanism, like Satan the folkloric mythological evil one,

0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.000
<v Speaker 2>like some bands are super super into that, right, But

0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 2>there's also a lot of other stuff. Remember we talked

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:34.960
<v Speaker 2>about iron mat and having all these different themes to

0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 2>their songs. One of the things that metal is not

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 2>necessarily known for, but it's a big part of it.

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.159
<v Speaker 2>They have like pretty strong social views, and if you

0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:49.520
<v Speaker 2>really kind of drill down into them, it's essentially super populist,

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:58.000
<v Speaker 2>anti establishment, anti fascism, anti authoritarium messages. Frequently anti aggression too,

0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.920
<v Speaker 2>especially the government on the government's half, the government being aggressive.

0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.040
<v Speaker 2>You can find that throughout the entire metal community, and

0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:08.920
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people kind of overlook it.

0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean cast aside the black metal scene, which

0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 1>can there, like you mentioned in I guess it was

0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 1>part one, where there's a lot of white supremacist threads

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.639
<v Speaker 1>and things like that and far right ideology. If you

0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.920
<v Speaker 1>cast that aside, cast a side eighties hair metal, which

0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:31.640
<v Speaker 1>just saying about chicks, one might make the argument that

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.160
<v Speaker 1>heavy metal is a very sort of low key leftist

0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>musical genre.

0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like okay, So take Metallica for example, starting with

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Ride the Lightning, the title songs back from nineteen eighty four,

0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.040
<v Speaker 2>it's it's basically about like how the it questions the

0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:53.200
<v Speaker 2>government's state monopoly on violence, right, like their moral right

0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.800
<v Speaker 2>to execute anybody. That's pretty anti authoritarian. It's also pretty

0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:02.240
<v Speaker 2>libertarian throughout, So if this, if the lyrics aren't left

0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.360
<v Speaker 2>leaning in general, they also tend to be libertarian too,

0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.880
<v Speaker 2>and their whole album and Justice for All, song after

0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:14.920
<v Speaker 2>song after song has a huge robust political message to it,

0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.160
<v Speaker 2>basically across the entire album.

0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. The song one Is is an anti

0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.520
<v Speaker 1>war song, and Justice for All is about the corruption

0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.879
<v Speaker 1>of the justice system. I the Beholder, that's about the

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.320
<v Speaker 1>repression of freedom of speech and expression.

0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.480
<v Speaker 2>What else The shortest straws about fascism, which went writing

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 2>through Blackened is a straight up overt environmentalist song.

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, you know they literally talk about like poisoning

0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:44.200
<v Speaker 1>mother nature.

0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And you find this like it's not just Metallica.

0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:51.879
<v Speaker 2>You find this throughout throughout the metal community. Like, even

0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.119
<v Speaker 2>if it's not like clear immediately if you actually stop

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.399
<v Speaker 2>and listen to the subtext of what the song is saying.

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:02.360
<v Speaker 2>It's usually about the powerful and the elite being served

0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.960
<v Speaker 2>at the expense of the masses. The populist masses. That

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.720
<v Speaker 2>is essentially what you can boil almost every song again,

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:14.119
<v Speaker 2>saving black metal and death metal too down into like

0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.200
<v Speaker 2>that's the message of just about every metal song at

0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.679
<v Speaker 2>its heart, at least yeh one song on the album

0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:22.600
<v Speaker 2>It's going to be like that.

0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:25.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, even old Dave mustay in with Megadeth. I mean,

0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 1>peace sells, but who's buying. Yeah, he's he's singing about peace,

0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:31.320
<v Speaker 1>just like the hippies and the sixties might have been,

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.399
<v Speaker 1>just through a very different, you know, sort of genre.

0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and some people actually credit him for promoting metal

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 2>music to have messages. He was taking a shot clearly

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.040
<v Speaker 2>at hair bands too at the same time, but there

0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:45.720
<v Speaker 2>was an interview with him in the La Times in

0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:47.840
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty six where he said a band should be

0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.160
<v Speaker 2>aware of what's going on instead of being so wrapped

0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:51.600
<v Speaker 2>up in themselves. C. C.

0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Deville, that's apparely ironic.

0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a pretty misname, yeah for sure.

0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.719
<v Speaker 1>And then you know you have cases where like Pantera's

0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:04.760
<v Speaker 1>former frontman Phil and Selmo was caught on video shouting

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.360
<v Speaker 1>white power on stage and giving a Nazi salute, and

0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 1>like the metal community was outraged, Like people came out,

0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:13.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, speaking out against them, not the least of

0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.640
<v Speaker 1>which was Scottian of Anthrax saying like, you know, that's

0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:18.919
<v Speaker 1>a vile thing to do, and they were, you know,

0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 1>it was heartening to see that kind of thing, you know.

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. I mean it was about as close

0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.440
<v Speaker 2>to being canceled as you can get in the metal community,

0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.040
<v Speaker 2>which isn't really a cancel culture, you.

0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Know, is that not a thing?

0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:32.679
<v Speaker 2>No? And then it actually goes all the way to

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:34.800
<v Speaker 2>the far left, and this is much less typical. But

0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 2>you have like grindcore bands like Napalm Death that came

0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.000
<v Speaker 2>out of the hardcore punk tradition of being very socially left,

0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.600
<v Speaker 2>even into like the anarchist territory essentially. But for the

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.640
<v Speaker 2>most part it's probably center left, maybe libertarian. Is the

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:52.919
<v Speaker 2>bulk of the messages that you'll find in metal music.

0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Can we talk about how your brain does on heavy metal?

0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:02.120
<v Speaker 1>Because they've actually done some studies that found and of course,

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:04.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, we should say there's there are people that

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:08.800
<v Speaker 1>struggle with mental health where music and certainly metal has

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:11.600
<v Speaker 1>had some negative impacts. Yeah, and there are examples of that.

0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:15.280
<v Speaker 1>But you know, aside from that, it seems like metal

0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:19.680
<v Speaker 1>actually like kind of tests and taxes your brain in

0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:21.879
<v Speaker 1>a good way. Maybe taxes in the right way. It

0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.280
<v Speaker 1>challenges your brain in a good way, yes, because it

0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 1>immediately starts firing to start making sense of this sort

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.360
<v Speaker 1>of musical puzzle and all these complex rhythms and time

0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:33.240
<v Speaker 1>signatures that kind of go hand in hand.

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, so your brain basically is being worked out,

0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.840
<v Speaker 2>like it's not just just sitting there like being vibed at,

0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 2>Like it's working trying to decode all this stuff. And

0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:49.000
<v Speaker 2>yet paradoxically, for a lot of people, they report that

0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:52.240
<v Speaker 2>it actually helps improve their focus. I think people with

0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:57.080
<v Speaker 2>ADHD and people on the autism spectrum tend to report

0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:01.800
<v Speaker 2>that heavy metal actually helps them focus better, which is

0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:05.720
<v Speaker 2>pretty pretty interesting because if your brain's decoding that, you

0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:08.240
<v Speaker 2>would think that it would be focused on that, but

0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:11.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not. It's doing it can do that separately, apparently.

0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:15.760
<v Speaker 2>And then also emotionally it seems to have positive effects too.

0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:19.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. I mean there are so many, you know,

0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:23.040
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of thousands or millions of heavy metal fans that

0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 1>maybe desponded or angry or frustrated or sad or something,

0:25:27.880 --> 0:25:31.119
<v Speaker 1>and this music provides a real outlet you know whether

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:33.120
<v Speaker 1>they're just in their room on their headphones or they're

0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:35.560
<v Speaker 1>driving around in their car through their you know, weird

0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:38.000
<v Speaker 1>suburbia that they don't relate to, or where they're going

0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 1>to a concert, and it provides a real legitimate release

0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:41.119
<v Speaker 1>for that stuff.

0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's not just like anecdotal. There have actually

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 2>been studies that have been published in peer review journals

0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:53.160
<v Speaker 2>that show that there are positive emotional effects that are

0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:56.840
<v Speaker 2>experienced by metal heads from listening to metal music. There's

0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:59.560
<v Speaker 2>one from twenty thirteen that studied four hundred and fourteen

0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:03.800
<v Speaker 2>British metal heads and they found a mixed bag. Right.

0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:06.400
<v Speaker 2>They found that they had a higher openness to experience,

0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.200
<v Speaker 2>which is one of the big five personality traits generally

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:13.639
<v Speaker 2>considered positive. They have more negative attitudes toward authority. I

0:26:13.760 --> 0:26:17.400
<v Speaker 2>can't really disagree with that if you are questioning the

0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:19.880
<v Speaker 2>authority of a corrupt government.

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:21.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, for sure.

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Lower self esteem. Didn't quite understand that that might just

0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:27.200
<v Speaker 2>be that metal music attracts people with lower self esteem.

0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it gives people lower self esteem.

0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's the case.

0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Greater need for uniqueness, love it, and then lower religiosity religiosity.

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:41.359
<v Speaker 2>That's not very surprising either. You know. I was like,

0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:43.760
<v Speaker 2>are they playing them? Like, are they confused? And they

0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 2>think Van Halen's metal and that's what they're playing, like

0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:48.680
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen eighty four album. But it turns out like

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:52.520
<v Speaker 2>they're playing like legit metal stuff, like they played As

0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:56.760
<v Speaker 2>I Lay Dying, Cradle of Faith Overkill, like actual metal,

0:26:56.800 --> 0:26:59.720
<v Speaker 2>and they were still getting these results, which I found heartening.

0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. There was another study I thought was

0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:05.919
<v Speaker 1>pretty interesting from twenty nineteen. It was thirty two fans

0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:09.680
<v Speaker 1>of metal, forty four non fans of metal, and they

0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:12.040
<v Speaker 1>found and this one's important because I think, especially in

0:27:12.119 --> 0:27:13.880
<v Speaker 1>the eighties with the PM rec there was a lot

0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:17.199
<v Speaker 1>of just gobbedygook going around that like it's going to

0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:20.359
<v Speaker 1>make your child something, it's going to make them into this,

0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:23.399
<v Speaker 1>it's going to make them violent. And in that study

0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:26.000
<v Speaker 1>in twenty nineteen, they found that metal heads have the

0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:29.760
<v Speaker 1>same negative bias toward seeing violent imagery that people who

0:27:29.840 --> 0:27:32.960
<v Speaker 1>don't listen to metal have. Even if they're listening to

0:27:33.040 --> 0:27:36.160
<v Speaker 1>metal that has violent lyrics and themes, it doesn't then

0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:40.920
<v Speaker 1>transfer like if they see an image of violence, they're

0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:42.320
<v Speaker 1>still like, oh, I don't want to see that.

0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:44.560
<v Speaker 2>Right exactly. I don't actually want to do that.

0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, I just want to yeah exactly, it's just rocks.

0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah exactly. It just keeps going on and on. I

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:54.679
<v Speaker 2>think the point of these studies, especially if you compile

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:57.080
<v Speaker 2>them together like weed, it is that there's this such

0:27:57.080 --> 0:28:02.120
<v Speaker 2>a dumb misunderstanding or or yeah, wrong interpretation of what

0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:05.840
<v Speaker 2>metal is and what it does. Again, accepting black metal,

0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:08.320
<v Speaker 2>they're definitely the outliers here.

0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So we talked a little

0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:15.040
<v Speaker 1>bit about the genres and subgenres, but we'll dig in

0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:20.280
<v Speaker 1>a little more here because it gets really confusing and

0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't know many of these bands at all, but

0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we should just mention a few of

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:25.359
<v Speaker 1>these subgenres, right.

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:26.639
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to? You want to go through this

0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of anatomy of just a single subgenre.

0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:33.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean I feel like, I mean, we're all those

0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:33.880
<v Speaker 1>under math corps.

0:28:34.000 --> 0:28:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this is where mathcore came from.

0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:38.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, sure.

0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So mathcore is a type of metal music, very

0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:48.840
<v Speaker 2>very very niche subgenre, and it's so niche that the

0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:51.920
<v Speaker 2>bands of this subgenre have names like the Tony Danza

0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:56.280
<v Speaker 2>tap Dance Experience, where the Dillinger, Escape Plan, Okay, super

0:28:56.480 --> 0:29:00.520
<v Speaker 2>niche and mathcore is a combination of metalcore and mathrock.

0:29:00.760 --> 0:29:03.880
<v Speaker 2>And I know you know what mathrock is, right, Yeah.

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:05.280
<v Speaker 1>I used to listen to a little bit of that

0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:09.880
<v Speaker 1>in college. That is rock music that's very complex musically,

0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of weird time signatures, a lot of starts

0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:18.880
<v Speaker 1>and stops. If you've heard mathrock, and you may have

0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 1>heard it and not known it was mathrock, but you

0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 1>just thought, like, like, what an interesting odd band.

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.240
<v Speaker 2>So you've got mathrock mathrock, you said, with its interesting

0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:30.880
<v Speaker 2>time signatures and very technical playing that evolved from prog

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:36.080
<v Speaker 2>rock like Rush, Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, from the seventies, right, yeah,

0:29:36.120 --> 0:29:40.880
<v Speaker 2>and then mathrock was also influenced by jazz. That's just mathrock.

0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:43.960
<v Speaker 2>That's one part that mathcore is made up of. On

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:46.560
<v Speaker 2>the other side, you've got metalcore, the other half of

0:29:46.680 --> 0:29:50.680
<v Speaker 2>math core. It's a combination of hardcore and extreme metal.

0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:55.080
<v Speaker 2>You might say, oh, okay, hardcore punk, no wrong. Hardcore

0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:58.320
<v Speaker 2>is different if you're a purist, Yeah, from hardcore punk

0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:03.640
<v Speaker 2>hardcore is like bands like Code Orange Vein. Hardcore punk

0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:06.960
<v Speaker 2>is minor Threat, black Flag, They're very close to really

0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:11.440
<v Speaker 2>they sound similar, but they're they're different subgenres. So metal

0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:15.000
<v Speaker 2>core is hardcore and extreme metal, which is a big

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.680
<v Speaker 2>umbrella term for a bunch of other types of metal.

0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Too, Okay, and extreme metal is also under mathcore.

0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so extreme metal is one of the bases, or

0:30:25.920 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 2>is the basis of metal core. And there's different types

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.959
<v Speaker 2>of subgenres in extreme metal. You've got death metal, black metal,

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:37.200
<v Speaker 2>progressive metal kind of like prog rock but metal, doom metal,

0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:41.479
<v Speaker 2>stoner metal. These are all varieties of extreme metal. And

0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:44.200
<v Speaker 2>so all of those can have their own core right,

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:48.520
<v Speaker 2>their own version of metal core. And so probably progressive

0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:54.240
<v Speaker 2>extreme metal with hardcore, that version of metal core probably

0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 2>eventually led to metal core. This is how divided in

0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 2>and cut up the genre of heavy metal is. That's

0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:07.240
<v Speaker 2>how niche it's gotten into. And again some people will

0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:11.560
<v Speaker 2>come along and be like this sounds just like progressive

0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:14.200
<v Speaker 2>metal to me, be like, no, it's mathcore, get it right,

0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:19.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's essentially like I just find it fascinating

0:31:19.400 --> 0:31:22.400
<v Speaker 2>that people have gotten that, Yeah, yeah, that into the weeds.

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:25.240
<v Speaker 2>And I've seen in a couple of places, probably on

0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Redded or something, where people are like, this is ridiculous.

0:31:27.560 --> 0:31:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Let's just take a big step back and get out

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:33.120
<v Speaker 2>of this mindset because it's getting kind of weird.

0:31:34.040 --> 0:31:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, there are definitely some genres that have subgenres,

0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:41.760
<v Speaker 1>but I don't think there's anything that approaches metal even like,

0:31:42.800 --> 0:31:44.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, even hip hop has a lot of subgenres,

0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:46.800
<v Speaker 1>but I don't think it comes close to metal even.

0:31:47.040 --> 0:31:50.000
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I don't think anything does. I mean, you

0:31:50.040 --> 0:31:54.680
<v Speaker 2>can basically take anything and give it several subgenre title

0:31:54.800 --> 0:31:58.480
<v Speaker 2>suffixes or prefixes, and you probably have an actual like

0:31:58.560 --> 0:31:59.480
<v Speaker 2>metal subgenre.

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:00.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, agreed.

0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:03.560
<v Speaker 2>I just found that interesting. I appreciate you taking that

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:04.640
<v Speaker 2>little diversion with me.

0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:07.960
<v Speaker 1>I love it. All right, we'll take another break here

0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:11.200
<v Speaker 1>and come back and finish up the part two of

0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:14.280
<v Speaker 1>the two part duology, and we're gonna talk about album

0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:17.320
<v Speaker 1>covers and the death of Randy Rhoades right after this

0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:46.960
<v Speaker 1>all right promised talk of album covers. Want to give

0:32:46.960 --> 0:32:49.240
<v Speaker 1>a big, big shout out to a guy named Blake

0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Massey who wrote a really great article on the metalpit

0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:55.200
<v Speaker 1>dot org, and also shout out Cherry Thomas from the

0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Aquarian because Blake wrote a really really great piece on

0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:03.040
<v Speaker 1>heavy metal album art and you know, basically kind of

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:05.680
<v Speaker 1>pointing out and making the case that that's where it

0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:08.480
<v Speaker 1>all starts. Is like being in the record store seeing

0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:11.880
<v Speaker 1>this imagery Black Sabbath kind of starting at all with

0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:17.160
<v Speaker 1>just dark imagery, very provocative stuff. A lot of times,

0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:19.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, like sometimes they would hire out just a company,

0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:22.200
<v Speaker 1>but I feel like, especially with metal, many times the

0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:26.080
<v Speaker 1>band is very closely involved in the vision for the

0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:29.560
<v Speaker 1>album cover, because I mean, album comes are always important,

0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:31.560
<v Speaker 1>but it feels like metal they're even more important.

0:33:31.640 --> 0:33:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just part of the experience, you know. Yeah,

0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:37.840
<v Speaker 2>like you buy the poster even if you're like me

0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 2>and you're into Iron Maiden's poster art not really their music.

0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Yet, Yeah, because it's legit, amazing art. I mentioned in

0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:49.520
<v Speaker 1>Part one. I think about the Black Sabbath self titled

0:33:49.560 --> 0:33:52.840
<v Speaker 1>debut album in nineteen seventy one of the most terrifying

0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:56.680
<v Speaker 1>album covers I've ever seen. It's just a it's a photograph.

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.080
<v Speaker 1>It's got this cloaked figure. It looks like a woman

0:33:59.800 --> 0:34:02.720
<v Speaker 1>state in front of this old like you know, torn

0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.360
<v Speaker 1>down or not torn down, but just sort of dilapidated building.

0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:08.840
<v Speaker 1>And this was in nineteen seventy when like psychedelia and

0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:11.880
<v Speaker 1>colorful album art was a thing, and it was just

0:34:12.160 --> 0:34:14.320
<v Speaker 1>very very creepy looking.

0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it also said hey, everybody, like we're going

0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:20.279
<v Speaker 2>in a different direction here, check this out. Like I

0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:22.920
<v Speaker 2>can't imagine what that landed like, it must have just

0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:27.160
<v Speaker 2>looked so different. Like think about led Zeppelin's album covers.

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:30.840
<v Speaker 2>The grimmest one they had was the Hindenburg explosion in

0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:34.040
<v Speaker 2>black and white. Yeah, you know, like that was as

0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:36.920
<v Speaker 2>grim as their album covers got. Like this is this

0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:39.640
<v Speaker 2>is spooky, Like it's definitely different. I just think that's

0:34:39.640 --> 0:34:43.279
<v Speaker 2>really cool, like to think back of just how some

0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:45.680
<v Speaker 2>people must have seen this and been like I'm reborn.

0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you know, there's a range

0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 1>like everything that you can look at something like the

0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:52.919
<v Speaker 1>cover of Number of the Beasts. We already talked about

0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:56.960
<v Speaker 1>the great Derek Riggs and Eddie their mascot, but if

0:34:57.040 --> 0:35:00.239
<v Speaker 1>you look at their album covers Iron Maidens especially, they're

0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:03.640
<v Speaker 1>just they're so intricate and there's so much to see

0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:06.240
<v Speaker 1>when you sit down on your floor with your headphones

0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:08.960
<v Speaker 1>on as a teenager. But they can also be a

0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:10.880
<v Speaker 1>little more simplistic, like if you look at the great

0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:14.120
<v Speaker 1>cover for Metallica's Master of Puppets from nineteen eighty six.

0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:16.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, a little can say a lot. It's just there.

0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:18.440
<v Speaker 1>First of all, you gotta have a great logo, and

0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:21.759
<v Speaker 1>Metallica's logo is always great. It is, as is Iron

0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Maiden's Judas Priests has always had a great logo. But

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 1>it's that Metallica logo and then that that cemetery with

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:32.080
<v Speaker 1>those crosses connected to the puppet strings. It's just like

0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:35.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of chilling to see. So shout out to Metallica

0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:37.560
<v Speaker 1>and Peter Minch who designed that one.

0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:40.000
<v Speaker 2>And we talked about while I talked about Rain and

0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Blood earlier, and its album cover is actually it's art

0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 2>like it's it's very clearly like a painting. I can't

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:49.600
<v Speaker 2>remember who did it. I'm not actually sure, oh Larry Carroll.

0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.200
<v Speaker 2>And it's basically hell. It's just a landscape of hell.

0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:56.239
<v Speaker 2>There's also the foreground in the laughter. There's some heads

0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>floating in a lake of blood. There's a goat on

0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:02.640
<v Speaker 2>a thrown residing over this horrible place. The Pope is

0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:05.560
<v Speaker 2>wandering around wondering what the hell's going on. But it

0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:08.640
<v Speaker 2>has its own style even it's not like like if

0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:12.920
<v Speaker 2>you look at Holy Diver, the Dio album cover. It's

0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:18.480
<v Speaker 2>almost like it's cartoon realism. Almost this is this is art.

0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:21.560
<v Speaker 2>It's like a style of a painter that the rain

0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:24.520
<v Speaker 2>and Blood cover is, which makes it even more unsettling,

0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:25.279
<v Speaker 2>I think.

0:36:25.760 --> 0:36:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah for sure. Yeah, that Holy Diver cover is great.

0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.280
<v Speaker 1>You know, Dio has an amazing logo and they also

0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:33.680
<v Speaker 1>have a mascot named Murray.

0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Did you know that?

0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I didn't. I guess now that I think of some

0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Dea artwork, I realized that I've seen that mask person.

0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:46.480
<v Speaker 1>I did not know that his name was murdered.

0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:48.839
<v Speaker 2>I didn't either. He reminds me of the Black Spy

0:36:48.920 --> 0:36:51.160
<v Speaker 2>from Spy versus Spot. He's just not wearing the hat.

0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that's I never really thought about that.

0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:56.440
<v Speaker 2>I didn't him there until I saw him. Yeah.

0:36:56.600 --> 0:36:58.839
<v Speaker 1>Just go check out the Holy Diver cover. It's great

0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:01.359
<v Speaker 1>because Murray is kind of standing up, you know, behind

0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:05.880
<v Speaker 1>a mountain, whipping a chain that's wrapped around a priest

0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:08.959
<v Speaker 1>who is in the ocean with the waves lapping, and he's,

0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:11.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, clearly struggling to stay alive and deal.

0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:14.759
<v Speaker 2>By the way he took over for after Ozzie left

0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:19.399
<v Speaker 2>Black Sabbath. He I think it was him immediately after Ozzie, Right, yeah,

0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:22.080
<v Speaker 2>it was, but he was also in another band with

0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:25.480
<v Speaker 2>an album cover that we talked about before. Rainbow. Their

0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:29.120
<v Speaker 2>album cover for Rising is one of my favorite, not

0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 2>even just metal album covers, just album cover in general.

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:34.480
<v Speaker 2>It's got a very pretty rainbow on it.

0:37:34.480 --> 0:37:37.279
<v Speaker 1>It is very pretty guns n' roses we should talk about.

0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:39.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, so, I don't really throw them in in

0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:40.960
<v Speaker 1>the metal crowd, but I think maybe early on they

0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:42.800
<v Speaker 1>might have been thrown in that group of hair metal.

0:37:43.719 --> 0:37:46.600
<v Speaker 1>But you know, very famously, their original Appetite for Destruction

0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:51.160
<v Speaker 1>artwork was very controversial for obvious reasons. You know, trigger

0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:54.400
<v Speaker 1>warning here because it's drawn, you know, like a cartoon,

0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:58.840
<v Speaker 1>but it depicts a sexual assault that's happened from a robot,

0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:02.240
<v Speaker 1>and people were like, we can't put this on our shelves.

0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Record stores were saying that. So Geffen Records was like, yeah,

0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:09.960
<v Speaker 1>maybe we are going a little too far here. They

0:38:10.000 --> 0:38:13.439
<v Speaker 1>put that on the inside cover sleeve and then ended

0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:17.000
<v Speaker 1>up with an iconic cover as a result that Again

0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:21.359
<v Speaker 1>it's drawn like a animated sort of drawing, but it's

0:38:21.360 --> 0:38:26.000
<v Speaker 1>that Celtic cross with each band member's head at various

0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:29.319
<v Speaker 1>points on the cross and again another great logo it is?

0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:33.280
<v Speaker 2>It turned out pretty good. I heard Geffen's first idea

0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:37.120
<v Speaker 2>was to put a nice Price sticker over the offensive painting.

0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Is that a joke?

0:38:38.160 --> 0:38:38.400
<v Speaker 2>It is?

0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:40.799
<v Speaker 1>Okay? I mean it wouldn't surprise me.

0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Remember those stickers, the nice Price.

0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:45.640
<v Speaker 1>That's right. I do want to mention the one more though,

0:38:45.680 --> 0:38:49.799
<v Speaker 1>before we get to Randy Rhod's Quiet Riot, because they

0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:52.879
<v Speaker 1>were the very first metal band to hit number one

0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:53.839
<v Speaker 1>on the charts.

0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:55.520
<v Speaker 2>With which one Metal Health or Come On Feel the

0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Noise or both?

0:38:57.120 --> 0:38:59.160
<v Speaker 1>Well? Metal Health that was the album Come On Feel

0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:00.280
<v Speaker 1>the Noise was on that album.

0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they also released the song metal Health as

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:03.600
<v Speaker 2>a single.

0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Right, that was also on that album?

0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Right? So which one reached number one first? Or do

0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:09.680
<v Speaker 2>you mean their whole album reached number one?

0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:14.399
<v Speaker 2>I got it finally everywhere you can stop screaming at

0:39:14.440 --> 0:39:15.200
<v Speaker 2>your speakers.

0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. They they're the first metal band to have a

0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:20.360
<v Speaker 1>number one record. Metal Health came out and kind of

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:24.920
<v Speaker 1>changed the game, and it featured the man in the

0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:27.279
<v Speaker 1>Iron mask very famously. It's a pretty cool album cover

0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:29.600
<v Speaker 1>and that guy was in the videos as well.

0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.160
<v Speaker 2>I've always wanted to play that album during seeding for

0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:35.640
<v Speaker 2>one of our shows. But those two songs are really

0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:40.040
<v Speaker 2>the only good ones on there. The rest are just slimy. Yeah,

0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:43.040
<v Speaker 2>so I've always skipped it. But yeah, metal Health is

0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:46.359
<v Speaker 2>a great song, which is ironic. It's bang your head

0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:48.680
<v Speaker 2>metal Health with Dragon Mad. I think he says it

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:52.520
<v Speaker 2>just like that. It's funny. It's a very slow song,

0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.040
<v Speaker 2>so I mean you can bang your head to it,

0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:56.440
<v Speaker 2>but you do it very slowly.

0:39:57.280 --> 0:39:57.759
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:00.960
<v Speaker 2>So Chuck, you you had said you specifically wanted to

0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:03.439
<v Speaker 2>end this on a huge downer, and I think you've

0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:05.400
<v Speaker 2>really knocked it out of the park with your choice

0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:08.680
<v Speaker 2>to talk about Randy Rhodes and his untimely death at

0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:09.560
<v Speaker 2>age twenty five.

0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:12.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, I think we both had our kind

0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:14.880
<v Speaker 1>of big things we wanted in here. Yours was iron

0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:16.920
<v Speaker 1>maiden of mine was the death of Randy Rhodes because

0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:19.960
<v Speaker 1>it was one of the saddest things to happen to music.

0:40:20.440 --> 0:40:23.080
<v Speaker 1>A big shout out to Rex Thompson, he wrote a

0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:26.240
<v Speaker 1>great piece on it for Live for Live music dot Com.

0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:29.360
<v Speaker 1>But Randy Rhodes was a great kid. He was a

0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:33.239
<v Speaker 1>very soft spoken guy, a virtuoso from the jump as

0:40:33.280 --> 0:40:36.880
<v Speaker 1>a teenager, and so much so that when apparently when

0:40:36.920 --> 0:40:40.680
<v Speaker 1>he was a kid practicing so much, his mom like

0:40:41.080 --> 0:40:43.080
<v Speaker 1>called a doctor when it was like can this hurt

0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:47.120
<v Speaker 1>my son's fingies? Like could this cause permanent damage to

0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:47.920
<v Speaker 1>his little fingies.

0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:50.080
<v Speaker 2>I've read also that she was a piano player, so

0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:54.400
<v Speaker 2>she must have been he must have really been playing. Yeah,

0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:58.040
<v Speaker 2>So he formed Quite Right. I had no idea about this.

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:01.960
<v Speaker 2>My only understanding quite Right was from Metal Health onward. Well,

0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:04.360
<v Speaker 2>all right, let's just be honest. It was Metal Health,

0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:08.680
<v Speaker 2>that's it, right, So he formed Quiet Riot back in

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:13.120
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy three. I had no idea that Randy Rhodes

0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:15.000
<v Speaker 2>was in Quite Right, or that Quite Right had been

0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:17.560
<v Speaker 2>around ten full years before Metal Health came out.

0:41:18.440 --> 0:41:22.919
<v Speaker 1>He was a child basically, and same you know, Kevin

0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Duburrow is a singer and everything. But they signed to

0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:28.720
<v Speaker 1>CBS Records. The band was kind of taking a different

0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:32.280
<v Speaker 1>direction than he thought, like, I'm better than what we're doing,

0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and he was right, and he left the band, was

0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:39.480
<v Speaker 1>pretty frustrated, and he got a call that Ozzy Osbourne

0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:42.359
<v Speaker 1>had left Sabbath and was forming a new band. And

0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:45.360
<v Speaker 1>as the story goes, he auditioned for a very hungover

0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Ozzy Osbourne and was warming up with some scales and

0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Ozzy was like, you got the job, all right? Pretty great?

0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:54.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that was it. So he became, i mean

0:41:54.440 --> 0:42:00.640
<v Speaker 2>just an absolute legend thanks to his stint with Ozzie. Right,

0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:03.520
<v Speaker 2>was Ozzy fantist Ozzy Osbourne?

0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:05.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was like Ozzy Osbourne.

0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Ozzy Osbourne and the dow Wops or the five Dimes

0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:08.319
<v Speaker 2>or something like that.

0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:10.800
<v Speaker 1>No, it was just him. And you know, the saddest

0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:14.200
<v Speaker 1>part about all this is that he was he really

0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:17.760
<v Speaker 1>awoke something in Ozzie and became very very good friends

0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:19.880
<v Speaker 1>with he and his wife. I guess they weren't even

0:42:19.920 --> 0:42:23.080
<v Speaker 1>married at the time, but his eventual wife Sharon, who

0:42:23.080 --> 0:42:24.880
<v Speaker 1>I saw at a restaurant in la last year, by

0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:29.640
<v Speaker 1>the way, but he lived with them when he was

0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:32.480
<v Speaker 1>in England and was part of the family. Basically a

0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:38.440
<v Speaker 1>very playful, spirited, really nice kid and just absolute just

0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:42.520
<v Speaker 1>slayer on the guitar until a very very sad day

0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:43.439
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty two.

0:42:44.640 --> 0:42:49.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is terribly sad. It was so unnecessary. Randy Rose. Yeah,

0:42:49.800 --> 0:42:52.680
<v Speaker 2>and again like this guy's finally starting to hit the

0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:56.560
<v Speaker 2>stride that he has known he could get to his

0:42:56.600 --> 0:42:57.240
<v Speaker 2>whole life.

0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:00.680
<v Speaker 1>He was he was crazy trained. You know everyone's heard

0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:01.799
<v Speaker 1>crazy Train, that's Randy Road.

0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So and he was also, like you said, he

0:43:03.880 --> 0:43:05.799
<v Speaker 2>was a good guy. Like people just loved him, right,

0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:07.960
<v Speaker 2>So he was twenty five at the time. It was

0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:12.479
<v Speaker 2>the day after a show in Knoxville, Tennessee. The tour

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:15.480
<v Speaker 2>bus had made it out of Tennessee through Georgia safely

0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:18.840
<v Speaker 2>into Florida, and they stopped in a town called Leesburg, Florida,

0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:22.400
<v Speaker 2>to repair their bus, which makes sense because Leesburg, Florida

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:25.760
<v Speaker 2>is well known as the bus repair capital of Florida.

0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.239
<v Speaker 2>And so they decided to take the whole day off

0:43:28.280 --> 0:43:30.120
<v Speaker 2>the day they were going to spend the night in Leesburg.

0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:32.359
<v Speaker 2>So they were just messing around that day. And again,

0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:34.520
<v Speaker 2>they had a show the night before, and everybody was

0:43:34.560 --> 0:43:38.560
<v Speaker 2>either hungover or still messed up from the night before. Apparently,

0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:42.239
<v Speaker 2>Randy Rhads and Ozzie It had an argument backstage at

0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the Knoxville show because Randy Rhodes was concerned about Ozzie's

0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:48.919
<v Speaker 2>behaviors drinking. He was like, you're going to die young,

0:43:48.920 --> 0:43:50.960
<v Speaker 2>You're going to kill yourself if you keep this up.

0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Ozzy didn't like that, so he stormed off and they

0:43:53.680 --> 0:43:56.720
<v Speaker 2>hadn't made up yet because Ozzie was still sleeping even

0:43:56.800 --> 0:43:59.480
<v Speaker 2>and Randy was now awake and people were messing around

0:43:59.480 --> 0:44:00.239
<v Speaker 2>in Leesburg.

0:44:00.880 --> 0:44:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was sleeping on the bus. So the bus driver,

0:44:04.680 --> 0:44:07.760
<v Speaker 1>he was a former commercial pilot. His name was Andrew Aycock,

0:44:08.400 --> 0:44:12.600
<v Speaker 1>and there was a Beachcraft Bonanza propeller plane in nineteen

0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:15.680
<v Speaker 1>fifty seven Beachcraft on the property, and he was like, hey,

0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:18.239
<v Speaker 1>I can fly that thing. Let's take it first. Ben

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:23.160
<v Speaker 1>the plane was unguarded and so he and initially keyboardist

0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:26.360
<v Speaker 1>Don Airy and tour manager Jake Duncan got on board,

0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:30.680
<v Speaker 1>flew around a little bit and landed safely. And then

0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:34.040
<v Speaker 1>after that he was like, hey, anyone, anyone else want

0:44:34.080 --> 0:44:38.359
<v Speaker 1>to take a ride? Young spirited, awesome. Randy Roads is like, yeah, man,

0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:40.000
<v Speaker 1>I'll go up there. That looks like a blast, and

0:44:40.040 --> 0:44:43.520
<v Speaker 1>then the seamstress for the band, Rachel Youngblood, also boarded

0:44:43.520 --> 0:44:46.439
<v Speaker 1>the plane, and while they were up there, Randy Rhoads

0:44:46.560 --> 0:44:49.640
<v Speaker 1>is like, hey, Ozzie's you know, sleeping off another hangover.

0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:51.359
<v Speaker 1>Let's like buzz the bus and see if we can

0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:51.920
<v Speaker 1>wake him up.

0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:56.120
<v Speaker 2>So they did, right, they did four times and each

0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:59.879
<v Speaker 2>time a Cock Andrey Acock was like, I can get close,

0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:03.440
<v Speaker 2>we can do it faster, and they managed to do

0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:06.680
<v Speaker 2>it three different times. On the fourth time, their luck

0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:09.360
<v Speaker 2>ran out, and I guess his wing clipped the bus.

0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:12.640
<v Speaker 2>And it doesn't take much pressure to send a plane

0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:15.320
<v Speaker 2>going one hundred and fifty miles an hour careening, spinning

0:45:15.360 --> 0:45:19.080
<v Speaker 2>out of control, and that's exactly what happened. The plane

0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:22.879
<v Speaker 2>struck the ground and slid or hit a tree, and

0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Randy Rhodes and Rachel Youngblood were ejected, probably dead immediately

0:45:28.400 --> 0:45:31.040
<v Speaker 2>from the plane. I believe Andrew Aycock was left in

0:45:31.080 --> 0:45:34.520
<v Speaker 2>the plane. It exploded into flames, but not before it

0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:40.360
<v Speaker 2>had cruised into and taken a stop in some Poorschmoe's garage.

0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:44.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Ozzie slept through the plane, hitting the bus that

0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:48.360
<v Speaker 1>he was on. Somehow that explosion woke him up, and

0:45:48.960 --> 0:45:52.000
<v Speaker 1>apparently emergency services weren't quick quick to get there, but

0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:56.520
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty clear that everyone died immediately. The autopsy showed

0:45:56.520 --> 0:45:59.000
<v Speaker 1>that Acock had still had cocaine in the system, and

0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Ozzie was like, yeah, he testified that he was using

0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:04.279
<v Speaker 1>coke like well into the night.

0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:06.040
<v Speaker 2>He was he was the bus driver.

0:46:06.880 --> 0:46:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, oh yeah, well into the night. This was

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:13.360
<v Speaker 1>the next morning, and his pilot pilot's license had expired

0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.520
<v Speaker 1>a long time ago, and you know, that was it.

0:46:17.600 --> 0:46:19.640
<v Speaker 1>We don't have any like black box recording or anything.

0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:22.640
<v Speaker 1>It was just a huge loss to the music world

0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:25.200
<v Speaker 1>and a huge, huge loss to the Osbourne family who

0:46:25.320 --> 0:46:27.560
<v Speaker 1>loved him so much. And Ozzie was already in bad

0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:30.799
<v Speaker 1>shape and this was the beginning of a very very

0:46:30.840 --> 0:46:31.799
<v Speaker 1>bad dark time for him.

0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:34.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he said, since that the Randy Roads death sent

0:46:34.920 --> 0:46:38.600
<v Speaker 2>him spiraling down that path that Randy Rhoades had argued

0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:40.759
<v Speaker 2>with him about getting off of in the first place, because,

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:44.759
<v Speaker 2>like you said, they formed some sort of bond that

0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:47.600
<v Speaker 2>just didn't last very long and just broke Ozzy's heart.

0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:50.200
<v Speaker 1>I guess yeah, super super sad.

0:46:50.480 --> 0:46:52.560
<v Speaker 2>It is sad, and I've been thinking, Okay, how can

0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:54.759
<v Speaker 2>we end this on a slightly higher note? And I've

0:46:54.840 --> 0:47:01.320
<v Speaker 2>got it, Chuck Kawhi metal. Do you know what kawaii

0:47:01.360 --> 0:47:02.279
<v Speaker 2>means in Japanese?

0:47:03.040 --> 0:47:03.239
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Cute, right, so okay, cute kawai metal means cute metal.

0:47:08.680 --> 0:47:13.799
<v Speaker 2>It's Japanese metal. It combines jpop right with metal, and

0:47:14.280 --> 0:47:17.880
<v Speaker 2>it actually kind of works, so if you're curious about

0:47:18.800 --> 0:47:22.360
<v Speaker 2>jpop metal or kawahi metal, look up the band's Baby

0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Metal and Lady Baby, and that'll be a pretty good

0:47:25.560 --> 0:47:28.720
<v Speaker 2>start down your journey into the jpop metal realm.

0:47:29.680 --> 0:47:32.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, And I want to quickly I know I

0:47:32.000 --> 0:47:35.280
<v Speaker 1>promised in part one the Rolling Stone top ten metal

0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:36.799
<v Speaker 1>albums of all Time, so I don't want to leave

0:47:36.840 --> 0:47:39.359
<v Speaker 1>that off, and I'll just quickly go through from ten

0:47:39.400 --> 0:47:42.680
<v Speaker 1>to one. We've got Pantera with vulgar display of power,

0:47:43.440 --> 0:47:46.680
<v Speaker 1>Ozzy's Blizzard of Oz at nine, Megadeth p Cells but

0:47:46.680 --> 0:47:50.480
<v Speaker 1>who's buying it? Eight, Motorheads, No Remorse at seven, Slayers

0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Rain and Blood at six, Sabbath self titled Black Sabbath

0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:56.799
<v Speaker 1>at number five, A Number of the Beasts from Iron

0:47:56.800 --> 0:48:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Maiden at number four, Judas Priest, British Steel Record at

0:48:00.560 --> 0:48:04.759
<v Speaker 1>number three, Master of Puppets at number two from Metallica,

0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:10.000
<v Speaker 1>and number one with a Bullet Paranoid from Black Sabbath.

0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:13.360
<v Speaker 1>And I know what you're thinking, where else is Iron Maiden?

0:48:14.280 --> 0:48:17.359
<v Speaker 1>They were also at thirteen besides number four with their

0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:18.120
<v Speaker 1>debut record.

0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I dispute a lot of that, but let's just

0:48:20.880 --> 0:48:22.279
<v Speaker 2>not get into it, Okay.

0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:24.279
<v Speaker 1>It's a rolling Stone list, you know how let's go

0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:25.160
<v Speaker 1>they really I.

0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Think they're just trolls essentially.

0:48:27.600 --> 0:48:27.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:48:27.880 --> 0:48:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Probably, Well I think that's it everybody. That's everything we

0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:33.400
<v Speaker 2>have to say about. Have you medal right now? And again,

0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:35.880
<v Speaker 2>sorry we did not name check your favorite band. If

0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:38.120
<v Speaker 2>you want to tell us to get into something, email us.

0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:40.799
<v Speaker 2>We love that kind of thing. We hope you enjoyed this.

0:48:40.920 --> 0:48:43.480
<v Speaker 2>We did the best we could. Thanks again to Olivia

0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:47.000
<v Speaker 2>for taking this journey with us. And since I said that,

0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:49.280
<v Speaker 2>of course it's time for listener mail.

0:48:52.880 --> 0:48:54.680
<v Speaker 1>You know what, I'm going to call an audible here,

0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:56.680
<v Speaker 1>not going to do a listener mail. Instead, I want

0:48:56.680 --> 0:48:59.799
<v Speaker 1>to shout out a book writer. Been meaning to do

0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:01.520
<v Speaker 1>this for a while, and it kind of fits because

0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:05.319
<v Speaker 1>I know that the author, Keith Rossen, is into some

0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:07.480
<v Speaker 1>heavy music. I don't know if it's metal or what.

0:49:07.600 --> 0:49:11.120
<v Speaker 1>I just know he's into some pretty hardcore music. I

0:49:11.160 --> 0:49:14.760
<v Speaker 1>took a flyer on a book with a cool cover

0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:18.839
<v Speaker 1>a long time ago. Finally took it on vacation. It's

0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:22.759
<v Speaker 1>a duology called fever House and the second book is

0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:26.480
<v Speaker 1>called The Devil by name great great horror books. I've

0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:30.160
<v Speaker 1>never read horror in my life. There's a thread of

0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:35.360
<v Speaker 1>humanity and the characters in the heart of his stories

0:49:35.400 --> 0:49:39.399
<v Speaker 1>are incredible. And then you've also got good horror stuff. Yeah,

0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:43.399
<v Speaker 1>so recommend fever House and The Devil by Name from Keith,

0:49:43.840 --> 0:49:46.920
<v Speaker 1>and then his upcoming book. I had shouted him out

0:49:46.960 --> 0:49:49.160
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram. He got in touch, so we're kind of

0:49:49.160 --> 0:49:52.799
<v Speaker 1>Instagram messaging now, and his book publisher sent me a

0:49:53.000 --> 0:49:55.359
<v Speaker 1>galley of his new book out this fall. It's called

0:49:55.400 --> 0:50:00.640
<v Speaker 1>Coffin Moon. This one's about vampires and it is great,

0:50:01.040 --> 0:50:03.160
<v Speaker 1>and so sign up for the pre sale. It's just

0:50:03.719 --> 0:50:05.279
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to read what he does next. And

0:50:05.360 --> 0:50:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Keith is like a super cool guy. So fever House

0:50:08.680 --> 0:50:11.359
<v Speaker 1>to double my name in the upcoming Hoffin Moon, which

0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:13.680
<v Speaker 1>that one's about vampires, Like I said, it's six like

0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Keith Keith Rossen rosso Win.

0:50:16.719 --> 0:50:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, since you said that, I've been trying to figure

0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:21.839
<v Speaker 2>out how to shout out two horror movies that I've

0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:24.080
<v Speaker 2>seen recently that are like, oh great, these are the

0:50:24.120 --> 0:50:27.000
<v Speaker 2>best I've seen in a really long time. Once Japanese,

0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:31.200
<v Speaker 2>it's got subtitles. It's called Best Wishes Ringo. No, that's

0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:33.480
<v Speaker 2>a good one. Though. This is called Best Wishes to All.

0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:36.600
<v Speaker 2>It's it's a hundred times more off the chain than Ringo.

0:50:38.239 --> 0:50:41.600
<v Speaker 2>It's not as scary as The Grudge or the Japanese

0:50:41.680 --> 0:50:44.960
<v Speaker 2>version of the Grudge. It's it's just nuts. It's really

0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:47.760
<v Speaker 2>good though. Another one is one of the darkest horror

0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:48.560
<v Speaker 2>movies I've ever seen.

0:50:48.600 --> 0:50:48.640
<v Speaker 1>It.

0:50:48.920 --> 0:50:53.560
<v Speaker 2>It's centers on snuff films. It's called Red Rooms. They

0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:56.240
<v Speaker 2>do such a good job that they don't even actually

0:50:56.280 --> 0:50:59.680
<v Speaker 2>show any of the videos in question, and it's more

0:50:59.680 --> 0:51:03.680
<v Speaker 2>about this woman's descent into madness, you know, being into

0:51:03.719 --> 0:51:08.200
<v Speaker 2>this kind of stuff. It's just an amazing, amazing movie.

0:51:08.239 --> 0:51:11.879
<v Speaker 2>It's not for everybody, but it's if it is for you,

0:51:11.880 --> 0:51:14.400
<v Speaker 2>you will love this movie. And I think if you

0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:16.960
<v Speaker 2>can just get past the weirdness and enjoy it, I

0:51:16.960 --> 0:51:19.920
<v Speaker 2>think and just about anybody could could enjoy. Best Wishes

0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:21.560
<v Speaker 2>to All. I love it.

0:51:21.640 --> 0:51:23.480
<v Speaker 1>I enjoy when we throw out these recommendations.

0:51:23.560 --> 0:51:26.000
<v Speaker 2>That's great, okay, Chuck, that was great. That was a

0:51:26.040 --> 0:51:29.279
<v Speaker 2>great end to the Metal episodes too. I think, good job.

0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, those were fun. I feel like we could have

0:51:31.520 --> 0:51:33.200
<v Speaker 1>done a part three, four five, I think so to

0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:33.520
<v Speaker 1>you to.

0:51:33.480 --> 0:51:35.839
<v Speaker 2>Be honest, for sure, Yeah, if you want to get

0:51:35.840 --> 0:51:38.520
<v Speaker 2>in touch with us about heavy metal or anything. You

0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:41.080
<v Speaker 2>can send it via email, send it off to stuff

0:51:41.160 --> 0:51:45.560
<v Speaker 2>podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:51:47.320 --> 0:51:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:51:50.280 --> 0:51:54.480
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:51:54.600 --> 0:52:00.279
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Four