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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,

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Speaker 1: and today on the show Ox, we're talking about species

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Speaker 1: of ox, not ox, but a UKs. You heard me right,

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Speaker 1: from puffins to razorbills to crested oklets. These seafaring birds

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Speaker 1: may be a little awkward on land, but they can

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Speaker 1: cut through the skies in the seas like acrobats. Discover

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Speaker 1: this more as we answer the angel question what does

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Speaker 1: bird cologne smell like? Joining me today is conservation educator,

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Speaker 1: host of the Panglin podcast, and puffin appreciator Jack Baker.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Hello, Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to be here. I'm like, I can't wait.

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Speaker 3: I cannot wait to just fangirl about puffins for the

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Speaker 3: next hours with you.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait. I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I love puffins. I think that they are

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Speaker 1: a inconspicuously fascinating species of bird. You also like puffins?

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Speaker 1: What is your history with puffins?

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Speaker 3: So I have a complex that's a good as a

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Speaker 3: deep first question.

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Speaker 1: Because I have a complex question.

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Speaker 3: It is, and I don't think people most people have

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Speaker 3: such a complex relationship with what seems like quite a passive, lovely,

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Speaker 3: dopey little bird. But I have, Yeah, I have a

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Speaker 3: little bit of a storied history and so yes, I

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Speaker 3: kind of became fascinated with puffins growing up in Scotland.

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Speaker 3: So I'm from Fifth in Scotland, which is a little

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Speaker 3: kind of area of Scotland just outside of Edinburgh. If

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Speaker 3: you're kind of less familiar with Scotland, it's just kind

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Speaker 3: of outside of Edinburgh and around the coastline there. We

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Speaker 3: have such a diverse and fascinating array of sea birds.

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Speaker 3: We have things like cormorants, We have oyster catchers, we

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Speaker 3: have razorbills, gannets which I love, which we're not talking

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Speaker 3: about today, but I would ganets.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know what a ganet is, go and

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Speaker 2: look up.

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Speaker 3: They're fabulous, fabulous, huge white birds, like amazing, and of

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Speaker 3: course puffins. There is a small island off the coast

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Speaker 3: of Five called the Isle of May, and on that

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Speaker 3: island there are well I thought, oh, there won't be

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Speaker 3: that many growing up. I was like, there'll be a

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Speaker 3: couple of birds. And the first time I went out

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Speaker 3: there and discovered there were in peak seasons. Eighty thousand

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Speaker 3: puffins on that island is just like insane and it

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Speaker 3: blew me away, Like me and my dad. I remember

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Speaker 3: we got the ferry out to go and have a

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Speaker 3: look at all these sea birds one day and then

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Speaker 3: it's yes, we kind of we are kind of chatting

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Speaker 3: away on the boat, being like when we maybe we'll

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Speaker 3: see like a puffin, like two puffins and a pair

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Speaker 3: of puffins, that would be nice, I don't know. And

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Speaker 3: then we got closer and you could see all these

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Speaker 3: like little black and white things like dotting about all

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Speaker 3: over the place, and I was like, surely they're not

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Speaker 3: all puffins, and they weren't. Indeed, they weren't all puffins,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of them, like thousands of them, thousands

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Speaker 3: of these birds. And then you go onto the island

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Speaker 3: and they have this visitor center and it's I think

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Speaker 3: the oldest seabird kind of observation kind of terror and

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Speaker 3: place in Scotland. And so there's so many of these birds,

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Speaker 3: and there are all sorts of gulls and things and

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Speaker 3: also and I just was like instantly captured by this magic.

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Speaker 1: Were you able to hear sort of the the sound

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Speaker 1: of that many puffins, and what does what does it

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Speaker 1: sound like to be sort of in the middle of

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Speaker 1: thousands of puffins?

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Speaker 2: I imagine what it's like.

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Speaker 3: It's like you imagine when you and all your friends

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Speaker 3: get together for coffee for the first time or something,

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Speaker 3: and you haven't seen each other for months, and you've

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Speaker 3: brought this group of people, and but that way where

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Speaker 3: everyone's so excited to see everyone that they're all talking

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Speaker 3: over each other all of the they're all having the

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Speaker 3: same thoughts and they just want to kind of all

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Speaker 3: talk about everything all at once.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now imagine that not human.

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Speaker 3: Words, but just like chattering of like these beats like clattering. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And it was, and there's so much of it going on.

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Speaker 3: It's like there's one hundred thousand conversations all happening at

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Speaker 3: once between these birds. And you could obviously, you could

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Speaker 3: kind of hear them a little bit from the boat

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Speaker 3: on the approach, but it's only really when you get

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Speaker 3: onto the island you realize there's so many of them

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Speaker 3: that it's impossible to miss. And you have the kind

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Speaker 3: of faint calls of the gulls and stuff in the background,

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Speaker 3: and you have that kind of you can hear the

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Speaker 3: conflicts between the kind of the puffins who are coming

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Speaker 3: back into the nests, and then you have the gulls

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Speaker 3: swooping in and trying to steal bits of food, and

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Speaker 3: so you hear the kind of this like loud cry

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Speaker 3: of gull versus the kind of like, yeah, chattering little

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Speaker 3: puffin noises, and yeah, you really it's an impressive soundscape

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Speaker 3: which I wish, I wish I could capture and play

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Speaker 3: to you. But yeah, unfortunately I'm in my office and

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Speaker 3: not on the island at the moment.

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Speaker 1: But you don't have puffins in there with you in

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Speaker 1: your office. I have a view, no, no, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because, yeah, like you said, there is a

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Speaker 1: conflict between say something like a goal and a puffin.

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Speaker 1: A seagull is a klepto parasite. It is a bird

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Speaker 1: who will steal food from other birds. Will actually talk

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Speaker 1: about some defensive strategies against klepto parasites later in the episode. Puffins, meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: are amazing little fishing birds. They are sort of streamlined

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Speaker 1: to catch as many fish as they possibly can. They

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Speaker 1: have these We've talked about puffins before in the show,

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Speaker 1: but just sort of a little review. They have these

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Speaker 1: amazing mouths, like these beaks that are beautiful to look at.

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Speaker 1: On the outside, they have this sort of like almost

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Speaker 1: Venetian mask style coloring with bright orange red, you know,

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Speaker 1: stripes of white or yellowy white, and inside their mouths

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Speaker 1: like you have this cute little puffin right like little chubby,

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Speaker 1: you know, not two huge bird, and it seems very cute,

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Speaker 1: and then it opens its mouth into this sort of

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Speaker 1: nightmare of spikes called denticles, and each denticle is like

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Speaker 1: this little bristly hairlike projection inside their mouths, and fish

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Speaker 1: will get caught on these. These are like hundreds of

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Speaker 1: little fish hooks, and so you can see a puffin

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Speaker 1: come out of the water with a innumerable number of

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Speaker 1: fish crammed in its mouth. It's cartoonish, like it doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem like they should have that many fish in one bite,

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Speaker 1: but it is because all these fish are hooked on

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Speaker 1: this like basely mouth bill crow and can't escape. And

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Speaker 1: so despite looking like a very cute, innocent little animal,

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Speaker 1: they are actually quite a fierce and very competent predator

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Speaker 1: of fish, and of course something like a seagull. Now,

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Speaker 1: I love goals, I don't dislike them. But they are thebs,

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Speaker 1: and so they will steal when they can from something

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Speaker 1: like a puffin, which feels unfair because here's this industrious

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Speaker 1: little puffin and then here's this large goal that's able

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Speaker 1: to just kind of swoop in and bully the puffin

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Speaker 1: away and try to catch the fish. That it's caught.

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Speaker 3: It's it's it is, and it's such an iconic, iconic

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Speaker 3: feature of an animal. And I think it's like it

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Speaker 3: was put into perfect like perspective for me. When you

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Speaker 3: think of like iconic. If you were to see like

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Speaker 3: a tiger's stripes, you would know what it was. If

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Speaker 3: you were to see kind of like the spots or

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Speaker 3: the pattern of a giraffe, you would know what it was.

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Speaker 3: And that's similar kind of thing with the puffin. Was

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Speaker 3: like a couple of weeks ago, I was running a

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Speaker 3: class for secondary school children age and we were playing

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Speaker 3: just as a little warm up exercise. We were doing

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Speaker 3: pictionary where they could pick any animal, any kind of

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Speaker 3: We were trying to theme it around the ocean, so

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Speaker 3: any kind of ocean adjacent animal they could pick to draw,

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Speaker 3: and we got some really good drawings, but the puffin.

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Speaker 3: All that the kid drew was the beak and the

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Speaker 3: like the sand deals that they catch hanging out of

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Speaker 3: its mouth and all of that, Like almost all the

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Speaker 3: other kids straight away and knew exactly what it was

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Speaker 3: they were drawing. So is it's this iconic and use

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Speaker 3: the iconic slightly horrifying beak that they have. But it's

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Speaker 3: it's amazing, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: They're adorable, I think, is what's interesting. I love a

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Speaker 1: predator that is actually extremely cute and innocent looking like

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Speaker 1: the blackfooted cat is another one I can think of.

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Speaker 1: It's this tiny cat, smaller than a house cat, very cute,

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Speaker 1: looks like a sweet little kitten, and it kills small mammals, rodents, invertebrates,

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Speaker 1: and it has one of the highest kill rates of

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Speaker 1: any predator, any wildcat predator in the world in terms

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Speaker 1: of being able to like even better than say, like

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Speaker 1: a lion in terms of its kill rate, because it

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Speaker 1: is just so and it kills so many little things

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Speaker 1: throughout the night because it needs needs all that food.

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Speaker 1: But it's adorable, and I feel this. The puffin is

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Speaker 1: like the blackfooted cat of the air, if you will,

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Speaker 1: a bit of a bit of a stretch maybe to

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Speaker 1: make that comparison, but it is adorable. It's about a

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Speaker 1: foot long, they're about twelve ounces. They're not very big,

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Speaker 1: you know. They have that cute little like they have

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Speaker 1: those little webbed feet, that cute stout little body, those

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Speaker 1: pinchable little cheeks. They're black and white. They look like

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Speaker 1: they're dressed up for a fancy dinner. Males and females

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Speaker 1: are pretty similar looking, and so they have this very

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Speaker 1: iconic look. They look like little gentlemen, little ginal ladies.

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Speaker 1: They're very sweet and cute looking. And then yet they

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Speaker 1: are very deadly to the fish that they prey on.

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Speaker 1: But I guess I think we don't sympathize so much

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Speaker 1: with fish, and so it's a lot easier to not

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Speaker 1: feel bad about the puffin's ability to kill things because

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, you're just a little fishing bird.

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Speaker 3: I think that is the thing of like I in

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Speaker 3: a past life. I think I actually was looking back

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Speaker 3: at this reason. I left the job about five years

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Speaker 3: ago now, worked in an aquarium, and I think that's

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Speaker 3: the thing of like seeing people like we'd come in

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Speaker 3: and like look at a fish and they just felt

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Speaker 3: no connection to it at all. Really, But if you

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Speaker 3: saw when they look at something like a seal, or

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Speaker 3: you talk to them about seabirds or something, there is

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Speaker 3: this like there's it's an easier way to kind of,

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Speaker 3: it's an easier thing for I guess them to relate to, and.

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Speaker 2: So they now.

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Speaker 3: But when they see a fish that's slimy to them

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Speaker 3: and scaly and different and kind of lives in the dark,

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Speaker 3: cold ocean, they don't really have that connection to it.

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Speaker 3: So when they see something cute hunting it, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we love the cute thing. Like it's fair enough. Because

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Speaker 3: even though they are like to the sand deal or

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Speaker 3: whatever fish they're going after, they are the nightmare that plunges.

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Speaker 2: Into the ocean from above.

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Speaker 3: Like I think they can go into about sixty meters

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Speaker 3: if they have to, and they will go all the

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Speaker 3: way down. That's a scary thing if you're a fish.

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Speaker 3: But for us watching, we go, look at the puffin.

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Speaker 3: That's what a skill. Yeah, yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: It is funny how so much of our empathy towards

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Speaker 1: animals is sort of based on the cuteness factor, as

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Speaker 1: is how seriously we take them, such as the puffin,

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Speaker 1: where they're cute, they're kind of goofy looking. When we

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Speaker 1: see them walking like on our turf on land, they

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Speaker 1: look a little silly, they kind of wallle around. You've

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Speaker 1: seen them swimming, you can see how ruthlessly efficient they

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Speaker 1: are in terms of swimming and flying. They're quite good flyers.

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Speaker 1: They're quite good swimmers, which is really interesting because typically

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Speaker 1: when you have a bird that is a good diving

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Speaker 1: or swimming bird, like the penguin right like it's it

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Speaker 1: cannot fly, it's completely evolved to be a swimming bird.

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Speaker 1: But the puffin as well as other species of ox,

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Speaker 1: not only can they dive, but they can swim underwater

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Speaker 1: and it looks like they're flying underwater. It's quite beautiful,

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Speaker 1: it's quite graceful. So they go from looking a little

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Speaker 1: bit goofy to being extremely graceful under the water.

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Speaker 3: Mmm, And like, yeah, it's is that It is that

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Speaker 3: funny contrast, if I guess we only ever really in

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Speaker 3: our exposure to them on like on the island when

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Speaker 3: I saw them for the first time, you only ever

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Speaker 3: see them in that goofy way. And it's only things

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Speaker 3: like documentaries and films that you then watch it later

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Speaker 3: that expose you to this kind of like oh, They're

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Speaker 3: not just goofy, They're not just silly. They also have

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Speaker 3: a bit of like, maybe this is I'm now thinking

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Speaker 3: about it, Maybe that's me. I come on to podcasts

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Speaker 3: a lot as a guest, and I'm goofy, I'm funny,

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Speaker 3: I like a bit silly. And then but actually I

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Speaker 3: would like to think I'm a bit more like clever

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Speaker 3: than I may appear like. So maybe that's my my

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Speaker 3: another connection to the Puffin for me, there like a

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Speaker 3: little spiritual connection that I love you very.

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Speaker 1: Much sympathize with this puffin in the way that you

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Speaker 1: giview it. Well, you had some difficulty having the puffin

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Speaker 1: sort of recognized as a serious topic, didn't you.

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Speaker 2: I did what that? Yes? I did? I am so yes.

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Speaker 3: That's where the complicated part of my relationship with the

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Speaker 3: Puffin comes in. So I It was when I was

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Speaker 3: doing my masters in conservation and as part of my

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Speaker 3: master's program in Conservation Studies, part of that was to

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Speaker 3: give each of the class members was assigned a seabird.

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Speaker 2: And we had to give a pre on it.

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Speaker 3: And I like, as soon as I saw the list,

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Speaker 3: I was like, I want the puffin.

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Speaker 2: I love puffins. They are incredible.

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Speaker 3: They're fantastic, and so I picked them and we had

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Speaker 3: to create this presentation. And so yes, we get to

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Speaker 3: the day we're giving these presentations.

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Speaker 2: It's all online.

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Speaker 3: I go on, I give this like presentation about puffins,

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Speaker 3: love them, passionate about them.

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Speaker 1: Great.

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Speaker 3: I like, you know that way where you finish something

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Speaker 3: you're like, I'm so happy with that with that one. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And I'm not the type of person who normally like

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Speaker 3: holds my hands up and goes like smash that, because

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Speaker 3: I like, I'm not. I tend to be the person

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Speaker 3: who remembers after an exam all the questions that I

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Speaker 3: think I think I got wrong rather than the things

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Speaker 3: I think I got right. So I came out of

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Speaker 3: this and was like, nailed it, this is great, Absolutely

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Speaker 3: smashed it. And I think this is what why environmental

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Speaker 3: education is so important and the way we frame environmental

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Speaker 3: education is so important. Because I then received feedback from

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Speaker 3: one of the markers who, in front of the entire class,

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Speaker 3: started off by insulting where I was from, which was

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Speaker 3: not a great start with like a connection because he

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Speaker 3: knew I was from Fife. There was a little bit

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Speaker 3: of an insult towards fife, which we'll not go into

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Speaker 3: now because that's beside the point. But he then went

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Speaker 3: on to kind of talk about how all my presentation

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Speaker 3: style was childish and he didn't like this, this, and this.

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Speaker 3: I knew that way where you just feel really belittled

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Speaker 3: in front of people that you feel and especially coming

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Speaker 3: off as high. And so it became this kind of

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Speaker 3: running theme throughout my life that after this happened, I

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Speaker 3: obviously found my reinspiration that happened like later on in

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Speaker 3: the story, but it kind of really ruined my relationship

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Speaker 3: with Puffins going forward, and it became kind of a

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Speaker 3: running joke for people, where like for my birthday, obviously

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Speaker 3: during a pandemic birthday, the one thing you could get

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Speaker 3: somebody was a face mask, and so I received a

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Speaker 3: face mask covered in Puffins. I like all of these

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Speaker 3: like little Puffin memorabilia things, which is starts showing up

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Speaker 3: in my life, and so it became this kind of

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Speaker 3: like running joke where like I always felt like kind

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Speaker 3: of disinspired, the inspired, uninspired.

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Speaker 2: There's the word, there's the word. I was like, that's

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Speaker 2: one of these, isn't right?

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Speaker 3: Someone pick whichever one you want, and so yes, I

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Speaker 3: kind of felt like this kind of uninspired by them,

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Speaker 3: and this kind of like every time I saw them

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Speaker 3: it was this shame because I had such happy memories

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Speaker 3: of this animal, and then this reframing during the pandemic

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Speaker 3: where everyone was a bit done with everything anyway then

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Speaker 3: kind of like ruin this animal I love and it

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Speaker 3: took a few like it is then kind of obviously

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Speaker 3: like to this point, I have met some fabulous environmental educators.

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Speaker 3: There are fabulous educators at Saint Andrew's. There are fabulous,

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Speaker 3: wonderful people who've given me fabulous, wonderful advice I'll never

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Speaker 3: ever forget, because in fact, in conservation and environmental science,

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Speaker 3: we need to keep that like childlike joy alive, if anything,

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Speaker 3: because as we go on we deal with really hard stuff,

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Speaker 3: it shouldn't be the passion. We shouldn't shut down the

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Speaker 3: things that make us passionate.

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Speaker 1: I mean, because obviously, when animal species are threatened and

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Speaker 1: our entire planet is threatened, things can get really depressing

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Speaker 1: very fast. But I think it is really important as

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Speaker 1: a part of conservation outreach to inspire a passion and

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Speaker 1: a love for these animals, because I think that when

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Speaker 1: we feel overwhelmed by how much work needs to be

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Speaker 1: done to save the ecosystems of the planet. We can

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Speaker 1: feel paralyzed. But if we inspire this love of animals

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Speaker 1: and just like this really embracing sort of the wonder

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Speaker 1: and the joy of these animals that we need to protect.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about like puff and

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Speaker 1: conservation in terms of like it. Have there been conservation

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Speaker 1: efforts to help preserve the puffin populations?

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Speaker 3: So yes, Despite the fact they are charming and lovable

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Speaker 3: and everybody seems to know what they are, like a

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Speaker 3: lot of very charismatic species like tigers and elephants and

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Speaker 3: all of these kind of big popular animals, they are

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Speaker 3: kind of under threat from a number of different things.

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Speaker 2: Here in the UK.

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Speaker 3: They are the RSPB, which is a bird charity that

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Speaker 3: is here in the UK. They have a list of

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Speaker 3: species which they consider to be under threat, and the

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Speaker 3: puffin is considered to be red, categorized red on that list,

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Speaker 3: which I feel like I don't need to understand.

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Speaker 2: I explain that for anybody, red is never a good thing,

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Speaker 2: to be bad color.

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Speaker 3: And while they are more certainly a lot more numerous

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Speaker 3: than other species which are categorized red in the UK,

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Speaker 3: things like the capri keley, for example, which is another brilliant,

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Speaker 3: brilliant bird which you should look up if you if

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Speaker 3: you don't know what a.

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Speaker 2: Capri keley is.

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Speaker 3: They are crazy aggressive grouse species that live in Scotland

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Speaker 3: and they are just amazing, So go and look them up.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, so they are and there's only five hundred

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Speaker 3: ish capri keley left and so while the numbers of

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Speaker 3: the puff and are not that low, there are obviously

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Speaker 3: serious threats to consider there that mean that it is

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Speaker 3: classified red as well, and things like it's one of

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Speaker 3: those ones that puffing conservation is difficult because they are

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Speaker 3: a species which comes into land, they nest and they

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Speaker 3: kind of stay on land for a period of time.

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Speaker 3: They will kind of look after they're young for a while,

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Speaker 3: and then they will go off back to sea and

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Speaker 3: they will disappear out in the middle of the ocean,

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Speaker 3: and then they'll come back again and then they'll disappear.

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Speaker 3: And so there are things called special protected areas in

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Speaker 3: Scotland which will protect the breeding a lot of the

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Speaker 3: breeding sites of seabirds and kind of prevent certain actions

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Speaker 3: from taking place within them to kind of help them.

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Speaker 3: But ultimately those birds like a lot of animals that

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Speaker 3: can migrate or can fly or can swim will travel

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Speaker 3: huge distances, and so they will move out of those

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Speaker 3: protected areas into areas where potentially they're threatened, and they

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Speaker 3: will kind of fly in all sorts of different directions,

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Speaker 3: which make it very, very difficult to then go, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: should we protect the bit of ocean that they swim they.

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Speaker 2: Fly to for the rest of the year. Well, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of like, oh, we can't really do that, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so it becomes a tricky thing, especially because they

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Speaker 3: are obviously very dependent on a certain temperature of water,

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Speaker 3: So they need a certain temperature of water to eat

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Speaker 3: certain types of fish, they can't certain prey. I think

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Speaker 3: it was anything up to I won't say I read

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Speaker 3: it earlier. If this is wrong, you can cut it out,

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Speaker 3: but I think it was around eighteen to twenty degrees

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Speaker 3: was like the maximum they could kind of go to. Yes, degrees, Yes,

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Speaker 3: they could kind of go to. So if the sea

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Speaker 3: temperatures kind of rise, that can have a huge impact

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Speaker 3: on their prey as well as that if there are

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Speaker 3: in kind of larger storms or kind of unpredictable weather

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Speaker 3: patterns for seabirds, that can be exceptionally dangerous. It can

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Speaker 3: get very complicated because they are seabirds, they will fly

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Speaker 3: around the ocean, and so to think, oh, to stop

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Speaker 3: climate change, maybe we should put up wind turbines, or

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Speaker 3: we should do kind of water powered kind of electricity

390
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Speaker 3: that can kind of help slow climate change. We'll see

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Speaker 3: birds who are flying around those areas often will collide

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Speaker 3: with the the either the kind of turbines, that threat

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Speaker 3: is low. I believe the science so is that is low.

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Speaker 3: But for birds that then dive, if there are kind

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Speaker 3: of the ocean wave power turbines that are under the water,

396
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Speaker 3: those become a threat. So it becomes a very complicated

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Speaker 3: issue with climate change. And then you add in things

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Speaker 3: like overfishing. I'm painting a very grim picture here. It's

399
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 3: just a very complicated picture. There's all things like overfishing

400
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: of things that they rely upon. There is other issues.

401
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think if tourism, for example, can be

402
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Speaker 3: considered one. If tourism becomes unmanaged or over kind of

403
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 3: populating areas. They obviously they nest on land and so

404
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 3: and they only lay one egg a year, so very

405
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 3: very important that egg. And so if that becomes damage

406
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 3: that can cause huge issues. Invasive species that can get

407
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 3: down the burrows. I think it was in Iceland. I

408
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 3: think it was in Iceland a while ago there was

409
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 3: a sort of release of mink escape and they can

410
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Speaker 3: get down the burrows. So there are all of these

411
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Speaker 3: factors that affect the puffins, and so while there are

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Speaker 3: still a large number of them, there's life is coming

413
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 3: at them in every angle. Yeah, and so they're the

414
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 3: type of species that it's very very complicated picture to

415
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Speaker 3: kind of protect them. But I think, like if I

416
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Speaker 3: was trying to turn it into kind of a hopeful,

417
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 3: practical thing for you that you can actually do, rather

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Speaker 3: than just paint this horrible image, which I don't like.

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Speaker 3: I don't like that at all. I think there's always

420
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 3: stuff that can be done, and I think it's just

421
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 3: being honest about the facts and dealing with those things

422
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 3: and providing people with the information to kind of deal

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Speaker 3: with them. And I think the things that you can

424
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Speaker 3: do are very very practical things. By looking after the ocean,

425
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Speaker 3: by kind of if you are you can help to

426
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 3: protect things like the puffin, which seems like a really simple,

427
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 3: silly thing, but by taking seriously things like sustainable fishing practices,

428
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 3: anti littering practices taking place in beach queens, doing kind

429
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: of policy rallying for your local politicians to take climate

430
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 3: change and ocean issues seriously. All of these things do

431
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 3: feed into species that we love, like the puffin. So

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Speaker 3: while the kind of picture might seem on a very

433
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 3: surface level quite a scary one, there is so much

434
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 3: that we can do to go out there and protect

435
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: species like the puffin that we love. And the good

436
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 3: thing about the ocean is even if you don't love puffins,

437
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 3: there are thousands of other species that all of those

438
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 3: things will positively benefit one of.

439
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: Those species too. That depends on the oceans. But yeah,

440
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 1: I think the really hopeful part of it to me

441
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: is that the puffin population right now is still pretty robust.

442
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: They're not on the precipice yet, but we love them

443
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: and we don't want to see them go. Well, now

444
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: is the time to really care about conservation efforts towards

445
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: the puffin and research into what we can do to

446
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: help protect them. So we're going to take a quick

447
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: break and when we return, we're going to talk about

448
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: a related species of bird, another ak, called the razor bill.

449
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: So we are back and we're now going to talk

450
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: about the razor bill, also known as the lesser ak,

451
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: which is the closest living relative of the extinct great ak.

452
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: The great ak was this amazing bird that was sort

453
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: of penguin like. It had a bit of a longer neck,

454
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: it had a longer, bigger beak, and it was this

455
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: pretty pretty interesting seafaring bird. It was flightless, but unfortunately

456
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: that one did go extinct due to over hunting. But

457
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: the razor bill is perhaps the closest thing we have

458
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: to the extinct grade ac, except that it is not flightless.

459
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: It actually can fly, and it is found in the

460
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean just below the Arctic circle. And you mentioned

461
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: that you have seen some of them near where you

462
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 1: grew up.

463
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so, yeah, the coastline round Fife is home

464
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: to some incredible, incredible species and I'll like the the

465
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 3: diversity of different things is just fantastic. And yes, so

466
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 3: you will get things, as I said, like oystercatchers, organets, guillemots, turns, eiders, shags,

467
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 3: all sorts of amazing birds, but of course also the

468
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 3: razor bill, which is yes, I'll never forget. It was

469
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 3: one of my proudest moments was like during university after

470
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 3: with an exchange with actually the same lecture, who was

471
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: quite to me not to heartback. He did like a

472
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 3: quiz of like local seabirds, of like you would just

473
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 3: put pictures up and like see if we could get

474
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 3: what they were right, every single one.

475
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: Including of course our star of the razor bill.

476
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 3: And I was like, yes, a little bit of like

477
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 3: Scottish pride for like our local species.

478
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, but yes, well it is. It

479
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: is quite I think striking bird. They have black plumage

480
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: with a white chest and a hooked bill with white stripes,

481
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: a pair of the stripes I actually go from their

482
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: bill under their eyes. It looks like some kind of

483
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: beautiful makeup. The insides of their mouths are actually bright yellow,

484
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: so they are quite a sleek and striking looking bird.

485
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: Its wingspan can get up to around twenty seven inches

486
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: or up to seventy centimeters, and from head to foot

487
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: they can get to be around seventeen inches or forty

488
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: three centimeters tall. They live in colonies on island cliffs.

489
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: This is their lifestyle is similar or to the puffin.

490
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: Of course they're quite different looking from the puffin, but yeah,

491
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: they live in colonies on island cliffs, and so they

492
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: are like a lot of species of ox, they are monogamous,

493
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: or these ones have more of a lifetime monogamy. Other

494
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: species of ox may just have seasonal monogamy. So females

495
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: will select a mate and they will typically pair for life,

496
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: although sometimes females will encourage other males to mate with

497
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: her just in case her chosen mate is shooting blanks.

498
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: So there's sometimes a little bit of you know, a

499
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: little bit of strategy there. But yeah, they will both

500
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: incubate the egg, which is precariously placed in a crevice

501
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: or ledge on the cliff side. They don't really build nests.

502
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes they just kind of like put random garbage around

503
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: the egg, just like maybe some grass or something. But

504
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: they don't really built construct a nest. It is just

505
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: kind of sitting there on a ledge and they will

506
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: wait for it to hatch. And once it is hatched,

507
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: the hatchling spins sometime being cared for by its parents,

508
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: sheltered under their wings for warmth, and they co parent

509
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: relatively equally in about twenty days. Once it is ready,

510
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: it will follow its father uh and jump right off

511
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: of the cliff of its precarious nesting era into the

512
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: cold waters below, guided by its father. So it gets

513
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: quite a rude awakening once it's old enough, in terms

514
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: of like, well, you're old enough. Now you've got to

515
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: jump off this cliff into this chili water because your

516
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: dad is waiting for you.

517
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 3: I mean that trial by fire or by water. I

518
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 3: suppose that that's I can't I'm trying to think twenty

519
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 3: years old. I was probably twenty No, I'm not twenty old.

520
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: I was probably still just lying there a little bundle

521
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: of nothing. Yeah, this bird is diving into the ocean.

522
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: Good, I mean impressive, impressive. I'm very impressed.

523
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: We can barely lift our heads at twenty days. I

524
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: don't really know too much about child development stages, but yeah,

525
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: like it takes us a while just to be able

526
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: to lift our own huge, heavy heads, whereas this little

527
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: thing in twenty days is jumping off of a cliff

528
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: and swimming. It can't fly yet, but it can swim,

529
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: so it will follow its father out into the ocean,

530
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: and they actually spend their entire winter almost entirely in

531
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: the water, either floating or flying or diving. And just

532
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: as the puffin can dive, underwater, so can the razor bill.

533
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: But the razor bill is a bit bigger, a bit

534
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 1: more muscular, so it can actually dive up to one

535
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty meters under the water and it will

536
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: catch fish and they we mentioned earlier seagulls and how

537
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: goals will sometimes kind of of be in competition with

538
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: puffins with other species of birds because they are kleptoparasites.

539
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: They which is a fancy way for naming a thief.

540
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: It will steal fish from other birds. Sometimes it steals

541
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: fish right from the mounds of other birds and so

542
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: the so the razor bill will actually solve this problem

543
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: by eating fish underwater. So it will catch its fish

544
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: while it's diving, and it will consume fish underwater because

545
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: it is less likely to be stolen from which is

546
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: just it's I would love it if I could go

547
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: snorkeling but also be eating a sandwich. But if I

548
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: tried that, I'd get water like in my mouth up

549
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: my nose. Sandwich would get soggy. Can't happen.

550
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: No, even if you're a big fan of sushi, I

551
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: don't think that's a good idea. I can't see it

552
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 3: being a great.

553
00:30:52,600 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: Plant yeah, so this is interesting and I'm sure you

554
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: will appreciate this. Hundreds of years ago, people who lived

555
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: on Scotland's frigid Saint Kilda Island would scale the treacherous

556
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 1: cliffs to collect the eggs of the razor bill and

557
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: would bury them in peat ash to preserve them so

558
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: that they could be eaten during the harsh winters. Now,

559
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: in modern times, people don't do this, at least they're

560
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: not supposed to. They are protected by the Migratory Bird Act.

561
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean back, you know, back in the day,

562
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 1: like a lot of times, like you think of an

563
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: island of being a paradise, but islands in these environments

564
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: near Scotland, near Iceland, they are extremely cold. The winters

565
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: are very harsh and so being able to preserve food

566
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: that you can eat throughout the winter can be critical

567
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: for humans to survive in these areas.

568
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: That's why do you think the Scottish people invented steam trains,

569
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: We invented television, we invented telephones. We have nothing to

570
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: do except be cold and creative up here, so we

571
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: have to come up with stuff, and clearly it comes

572
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: into food as well. We can't prioritizing random really difficult

573
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 3: food to get.

574
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you know, I mean, if you think, like wow,

575
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: an egg that you've buried in pete ash doesn't sound

576
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: very good. I don't know what to tell you, but

577
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: there are a lot of egg recipes that involves preserving

578
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 1: them in some way. Of course, my favorite egg is

579
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: the soy marinated eggs you get in ramen. But I

580
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: feel like it is a creative way to be able

581
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: to eat eggs throughout the winter.

582
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 3: There is an iconic I think it isn't like, well,

583
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: it's a Scotch egg now, ye, which I don't know.

584
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: If you get so listeners, you can think about we've

585
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: gotten a bit more modern. We no longer climb cliffs

586
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: and berry eggs. We cover them in breadcrumbs insteads.

587
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, bread crumbs sound a little bit more appetizing than

588
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: pete ash. I will give you that. I'm not gonna

589
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: blame people hundreds of years ago for having to resort

590
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: to pete ash, but yees, bread crumbs sound very nice.

591
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: I don't think i've had a Scotch egg before. It

592
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: is like it's a fry, it's a what so it's

593
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: covered in bread crumbs and fried right.

594
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: So there's a couple of different a couple different variations.

595
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: And this is where the Scottich people who are listening

596
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 3: will come at me for defining it in the wrong.

597
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: A couple of different ways you can have it. You

598
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: will occasionally get little mini Scotch eggs, which are essentially

599
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 3: just like a little mini bit of like scrambled egg

600
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: covered in like bread crumb type structure. And then you

601
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 3: will get like a big Scotch egg, which would be

602
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: like maybe a whole boiled egg. Sometimes if they're feeling

603
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 3: a little feisty, they'll put something like bacon or something

604
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: in there as well, and then they will yeah, cover

605
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: it in bread crumbs, fry it, do whatever you need

606
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: to do to maintain that as a ball. And it's

607
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds it sounds unusual, but it's it's

608
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: pretty good.

609
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: It sounds good.

610
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: It sounds delicious. It sounds like a delicious, heart healthy breakfast. No,

611
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: it does sound very good, but yeah, I mean it is.

612
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: I think it is interesting that these birds, you know,

613
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: have such a I think that with most species of

614
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: animals like you can often find a human connection. I mean,

615
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: it speaks more to our desperation as humans where we

616
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: try to exploit every niche there is. But yeah, we've

617
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: gone from trying to exploit the razorbills to nowadays like

618
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: they are protected, uh and we are just I mean,

619
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: like the the I'm sure that they face a lot

620
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: of the same conservation issues as puffins do. They depend

621
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: on waters, they depend on fish populations, on temperatures not

622
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: rising too much. So if we you know, all of

623
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: these birds depend on us to you know, try to

624
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: try to not exploit the earth too much. And you know,

625
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 1: I think that is that that's kind of a constant

626
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: theme with these birds.

627
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I would imagine, yes, when you go

628
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 3: out to places like the Isle of May, you see

629
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: all of these various different species and they might be

630
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: there at different times of the year, or they might

631
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 3: use different parts of islands of different habitats. But like

632
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 3: by protecting areas like that, you do you have those

633
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 3: effects of kind of as we were talking about before,

634
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 3: you have the effects on more than just maybe the

635
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 3: puffin or more than just the razor build Like all

636
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: of these things are impacted by the tricky stuff, and

637
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: therefore when the good stuff happens, they are also impacted

638
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: by it.

639
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: As well, so, yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think it is.

640
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: I think it's something that to me means a lot

641
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: because I know about the sad story about the great

642
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: awk that went extinct, which was this amazing animal. It

643
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: was really interesting as well because it showed us sort

644
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 1: of this evolutionary path from a flighted bird to a

645
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: flightless bird, similar to a penguin that swims rather than flies.

646
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: It would be really amazing if the great auk was still alive,

647
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: and yet it's not, because the it went extinct before.

648
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: You know, I think it went the last ones went

649
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: extinct in the eighteen hundreds. Do you know if that's right?

650
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: I think so, I do know, I'll check it.

651
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. I think the last ones went extinct

652
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundred. So this is like there were

653
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: some kind of vague conservation efforts that were going on

654
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: at this time, but I think that we just didn't

655
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: take it as seriously as we do now. The more

656
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: species we see endangered or even going extinct, we're realizing

657
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: more and more like, oh, we actually really need to

658
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: do something otherwise, Yeah, we're gonna lose We're going to

659
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: lose a lot more animals than I think we could

660
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: have ever imagined pre industrialization.

661
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 3: And I always think it's a shame for the ok

662
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 3: because it is when people think of extinct.

663
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: Birds, they're always always going to think Dodo.

664
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: Like if you say name and extinct birds, but if

665
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 3: you look like I would say, aside from the Dodo,

666
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 3: this is probably the most iconic. Like if you were

667
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: to look at pictures of birds that have gone extinct

668
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 3: throughout time, this is an iconic, iconic The drawings and

669
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 3: things of the time are like very iconic things. And

670
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 3: so you even if you don't maybe know what it

671
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 3: doesn't come straight to your head, when you look up

672
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: the images of this incredible word, you'll know, you'll probably

673
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 3: know it. And it is it's a shame that that

674
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 3: we've let things like that historically have kind of slipped away.

675
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 3: When the conservation perhaps wasn't a concept and wasn't an

676
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 3: idea that we're going people's head through people's heads. They

677
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 3: were just in the space of exploring and conquering and

678
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 3: doing all sorts of very questionable things. And so yeah,

679
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 3: these animals slipped away. And when we're now in a

680
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 3: place that we can do stuff about it, and we can,

681
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 3: we know we should know, and we do know better,

682
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: and we know how we can make a difference. Then

683
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 3: it would be a shame to let the razor bill

684
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 3: and the puff end and all these things go the

685
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 3: same way.

686
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, and exactly in the razor bill

687
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: right now is doing all right. So again, I feel

688
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: like it's great to start caring about conservation, what we

689
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: can do to protect species before they start to get

690
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: into just the absolute red zone danger zone, because often

691
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: once their population has dwindled down to that point, it

692
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: can be too late. So yeah, I think that with

693
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 1: the puffins, with the razor bills, they're still doing okay.

694
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: You know, they are definitely something that we can preserve

695
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: that it is not at all a reach, I think

696
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: to protect them and prevent them from ever becoming endangered

697
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: or god forbid, extinct.

698
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 3: It's absolutely it's yeah. When you have that's the thing,

699
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 3: when you have things like this that they are still plentiful,

700
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 3: Let's do it, Let's do the work now. And I

701
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: think it's it's one of those things that I guess

702
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 3: the people who listen to this show, the people I talk.

703
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 2: To regularly, like we're all aware.

704
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: Of animals, we have an interest in animals, And I

705
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 3: think what we can do is go out and tell

706
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: people and like when they see a razor bill, which

707
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 3: they might not like everybody maybe knows what seagull is

708
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: or whatever, when they see a razor bill, whatever it is,

709
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 3: tell people about them, Tell people about the issues they face,

710
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: Tell people about the kind of great ak and the

711
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 3: dodo or the puffin or whatever it is, and like,

712
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 3: make people aware of all these things, because it's it's yeah,

713
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 3: it's our duty is animal lovers who listen to these

714
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: podcasts and who like go out and we see animals,

715
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 3: and we watch animals and we love them. To go

716
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 3: out and spread this to as many people as possible,

717
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: and hopefully by making more people aware, we won't. Yeah,

718
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 3: we can make a real, real difference to them.

719
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you heard the man. You've just been recruited for

720
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: the puff and Army. Get out there and spread the

721
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: word of Puffins. Well, we are going to take a

722
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: quick break and when we get back, we're going to

723
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: talk about one of my favorite of the ox because

724
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: it is so goofy and so silly and so wonderful,

725
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: the crested Oklet. But we will talk about that when

726
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: we get back. So now we're going to talk about

727
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: the crested auklet. It is a fantastic bird. I feel

728
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: like it is not a super famous bird, and yet

729
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: it is just so silly and goofy. I don't know

730
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: why it doesn't get more attention. So the crested auklet

731
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: is the fancy, ostentatious cousin of the puffin. They are

732
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: found in the Northern Pacific and Bearing Sea. They are

733
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: a little bit smaller than a puffin, about seven to

734
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 1: eleven ounces and up to ten inches or twenty seven

735
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: centimeters tall. They spend a lot of time in the

736
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: water diving for krill and other small marine crustaceans. And

737
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: just like puffins, and just like razor bills, they seem

738
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: to be able to fly underwater, so they can swim

739
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: with their wings, and they look quite elegant when they

740
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: do so. It has a sleek black body with a

741
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: gray chest, a short orange bill that curves up, and

742
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: what seems like a smile. It is. It's got a

743
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: very goofy looking bill that is fixed in this permanent,

744
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: very silly smile. They also have these bright teal eyes,

745
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: white eyeliner, and most notably, this very fancy little plume

746
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: that sprouts up from the top of their bill and

747
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: curves over. It makes them look like little flappers, little

748
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: little party birds. Both males and females have these crests.

749
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: Males have slightly larger crests that tend to be a

750
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: little more showy, but females have them as well, which

751
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: is very interesting.

752
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 3: So I actually don't know, I know, I actually don't

753
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 3: know a lot about this. I'm quite excited to hear

754
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 3: what you have to say, because I am aware of them,

755
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: and I'm aware of how charmingly goofy they are. They

756
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 3: have that, as you say, that little face, like it's

757
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 3: the face that I make whenever I make a bad joke. Well,

758
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 3: I think that's really funny. Yeah, they have that little

759
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 3: charm and so I'm excited. Yeah, I'm excited to hear

760
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: what you have to say, Like, I can't wait to

761
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 3: learn more.

762
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. So what's interesting about them, I think is that

763
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: they seem to exemplify this trait. And we see this

764
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: in a lot of species of ox, which is the

765
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: male and female are actually quite similar looking, so they

766
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: both have these ornamental crests. In a lot of bird species,

767
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: the female can be somewhat plain looking, and it's the

768
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: male who has all the ornamentation, all of the bright colors.

769
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: But in this case, the males and females are pretty similar,

770
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 1: just like you see in puffins, just like you see

771
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: in razor bills. But because this one is so highly

772
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: ornamented with that little crest there, it raises a lot

773
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: of questions in terms of like, how does their mating

774
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: dynamics work? So they also have sorry, so they use

775
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: this crust to attract mates. But that is not the

776
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: only thing that they have. They also produce their own

777
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: perfume or cologne or whatever you want to call it

778
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: that smells like tangerines apparently, which is just such an

779
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: lovely little detail about these birds. They have a sink

780
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: land located between their shoulder blades, and they produce this

781
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: like tangerine scent that is used as an attractive perfume

782
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: for mates.

783
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 3: I mean, because I've heard of like things like the

784
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: binterrong for example, that smells like popcorn. Yeah, very infamously

785
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 3: smells like salted popcorn. Yeah, I have that. I feel

786
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 3: like a tangerine maybe is a slightly nicer, a nicer

787
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 3: scent to have around you.

788
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 2: All the time.

789
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: I can at least I can imagine someone going out

790
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 3: and being like, I want to smell like tangerines, rather

791
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 3: than going in and wanting to smell like pop points.

792
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: So that's a it's a charming way to kind of, yeah,

793
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 3: attract each other, who yeah, hook each other in.

794
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: I do not encourage you to harass these birds, but

795
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: part of me does want to like catch one just

796
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: to kind of huff it, just smell it, get a

797
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: little whiffin some some bird watching in aromatherapy all at once.

798
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: But yeah. So what's interesting is that both males and

799
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: females select based on physical appearance of course that lovely

800
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: tangerine smell and the general vibes that they're getting from

801
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: the other bird. So mating occurs at sea, and males,

802
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: like many other bird species, do not have a penis,

803
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: so the act of copulation has to be highly cooperative,

804
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: highly synchronized. It is this acrobatic teamwork that needs to happen.

805
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: And so as the male hovers over the female like

806
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: while they are on the water, they will engage. They

807
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: will engage in a chloacal kiss, which is how birds

808
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: without penis is made. And what is achloacal kiss, well

809
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: chloeka is that I like to call it the hole

810
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: that does it all. It's found in birds and reptiles

811
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: and so that like with achloacal kiss, it's just like

812
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 1: what you would imagine, like basically, you know, two holes

813
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: just like touching and then exchange of semen and that

814
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: is how they mate. And so this because this requires

815
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 1: such cooperation. The female really has to be into the male.

816
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: The male has to be into the female, which I love.

817
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: It's it's they both really have to want this to

818
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: happen and be really into the mating and so that

819
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: they can coordinate this highly acrobatic mating ritual.

820
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 3: I'm just really sad for the listeners that they didn't

821
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 3: get to see the hand actions which kiss is. It

822
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 3: really pains a very accurate picture of what it is like.

823
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: You just make it oh with one hand and oh

824
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: with the other and just kind of, you know, make

825
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: them kiss. This is the one time a kiss can

826
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: get you pregnant. So they are monogamous, but only for

827
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: one breeding season and then they may or may not

828
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: go back on the market. Around forty five percent of

829
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 1: crusted auklets remain with their partner for the next breeding

830
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: season and then the rest of them go back out

831
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 1: on the open market. So both the mother and father

832
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: will incubate and care for the egg and hatchlink just

833
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: like we see in razor bills. There is a theory

834
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: that it is not a coincidence that birds speak. She's

835
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: like crested auklets or even puffins and razor bills both

836
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: have this equitable parental care where both the male and

837
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: the female take care of their young, and this absence

838
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: of sexual dimorphism, or at least less observable sexual dimorphism.

839
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,959
Speaker 1: So sexual dimorphism is when you have one sex looks

840
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: quite different from another sex. Think of a peacock. You

841
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: have the peacock. He's brilliant blue, brilliant green, has this

842
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 1: amazing fan tail. And then the female, the pea hen,

843
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:55,479
Speaker 1: is brown. She's lovely, she's a lovely bird, but she's brown.

844
00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: She doesn't have that amazing tail. Because she is the

845
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,439
Speaker 1: one selecting the mate. It's from her perspective, from her

846
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: judging eye, discerning eye, that she will determine who to

847
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: mate with. Whereas with puffins, with razorbills, and with this

848
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: crested auklet, both the females and males are judging each other,

849
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 1: and so there is this theory that because the male

850
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 1: is actually investing so much in parental care, it is

851
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 1: in his best interest to also select for a highly

852
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: fit female as it is for the female. So like

853
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: for a lot of bird species, the male will mate

854
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: with the female and then it's off and it's done,

855
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: and it has no involvement in the care of the offspring,

856
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,439
Speaker 1: and a lot of species there is actually this parental care,

857
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 1: so the male will actually care for the offspring help

858
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: the female. This happens in everything from two cans to penguins.

859
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: You know, you have this co parenting and so the

860
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 1: idea is that you are more likely in these co

861
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 1: parenting situations to have less sexual dimorphism, less difference between

862
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: males and females, and more ornamentation in both males and

863
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 1: females because they are both trying to impress each other.

864
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. I love that. I think that's yeah, it's

865
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 2: it's impressive. It's actually so.

866
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 3: I I work part time at Edin Brazoo and we

867
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 3: have gentoo penguins, king penguins and northern rock copper penguins.

868
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 3: They are and it's just when when this is being recorded,

869
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 3: it's just the season where they're starting to lay eggs

870
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 3: and kind of have this like scenario, and it's it's funny.

871
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 3: It's it's funny to watch when you have these kind

872
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 3: of two parents who are equally trying to like equally rambunctious,

873
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 3: equally kind of wanting to show off to each other,

874
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 3: but also equally protective and kind of like back off

875
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 3: from our egg because type scenario. It's really it's it's

876
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 3: fun to see like these co parenting like scenarios and

877
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 3: how they work in the animal kingdom, because yeah, it's

878
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 3: it's fun when it's it's interesting and it's not the

879
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 3: kind of stereotypical, Oh there is a male lion who

880
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 3: is surrounded by all of these females. Like, it's interesting

881
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 3: when you have this kind of partnership going on in

882
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 3: the relationships that form, and I think that.

883
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: It forms quite charming stories and like you.

884
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 3: Kind of get connected to these these love stories and

885
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: these bonds because you get you put, as we often do,

886
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 3: you put your own emotions into it.

887
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 2: You go on, yeah, that's just the sweetest thing.

888
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean I think that for a

889
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: lot of people who are in equitable, say relationships, it is.

890
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 1: It is much more relatable when you see a bird

891
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: like this, like ah, the both the male and female

892
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: are taking care, they're young, they both want to make

893
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: a good impression on each other. It's not so lopsided.

894
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: I think it does appeal very much to sort of

895
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: modern you know, my feminist sensibilities. Of course, I can't

896
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: project those onto a bird. And you know, I don't

897
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: like I'm not like oh, lions tho, it's misogyn those sexists.

898
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: And of course things like with lions and other animals

899
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: that have sort of this more like harem structure where

900
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: you have multiple females to one male. Often it's put

901
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: through this framework of like, well, you know, these females

902
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: are submissive to this male. But you can also look

903
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: at it as like these are matriarchal societies because the

904
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: male is interchangeable. The males can come and go, a

905
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: new male can come and take over. But the female

906
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: lions are somewhat consistent, and they actually form the main

907
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: social group of the pride, and they can collectively chase

908
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,919
Speaker 1: away a male that they don't like. So they're all

909
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: sorts of really interesting dynamics and animals that are maybe

910
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 1: less relatable to us as humans, but definitely for these

911
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: birds it is somewhat I think in a way it's

912
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: very charming because it's relatable to me as someone who

913
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 1: likes to be an equal in relationships, and so it's like, yes, crestedoclet,

914
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: that's great. You guys treat each other good.

915
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm hmmm, it's yeah.

916
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 3: It's reminding me of like the pride I felt in

917
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 3: that we have currently. So as as happens the penguins

918
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 3: don't well and birds and things that will pair up occasionally,

919
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 3: there will be a couple of men who decide we're

920
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 3: gonna we're gonna pair up have a kind of companion

921
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 3: relationship for a year, and it's this whole conversation is

922
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 3: reminded me. This year at Edinburgh, there's two males. Snowflake

923
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 3: who is the sweetest, one of the most iconic because

924
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: he has a condition where his feathers are all all

925
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 3: kind of white and wow, so he's one of the

926
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 3: and he's paired up this year with another one of

927
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 3: the males, and just to really hit home, I'm like, yes,

928
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 3: i'd love you too for each other. We did they

929
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 3: did an exercise with a group who they got to

930
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 3: paint little pebbles, so the penguins will will all kind

931
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 3: of fight over these pebbles to build their nests. And

932
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 3: even when it's men, like two males, they will still

933
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 3: build this nest and they will still kind of form

934
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 3: this thing. And one of the children painted a rainbow

935
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 3: one of the pebbles, and these two penguins, who have

936
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: decided to have this like relationship together for a year,

937
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,479
Speaker 3: picked the rainbow penguin the rainbow pebble, and I was like, yes,

938
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 3: I love it.

939
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: So much, so cute, I love I love this. I

940
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 1: want to see a Pixar movie of Snowflake. That is

941
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: that's fantastic. It must be such a pretty bird as well.

942
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 1: I love the both the melanistic and the albino or

943
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: the animals that have these like interesting coat patterns. I

944
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: didn't realize that that this could happen. Well, I guess, yeah,

945
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 1: of course it could happen with penguins. It just never

946
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 1: occurred to me. But that's fascinating. I have to I

947
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: have to check out a picture of Snowflake. I'm sure

948
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: very cute.

949
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:49,479
Speaker 3: I'll try and find one and same one across because

950
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 3: thank you a star, a star.

951
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:57,320
Speaker 1: Oh, congratulations Snowflake. That is I'm happy for him. He's thriving,

952
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 1: he's in his lane with his rocks and his wonderful partner. Fantastic. Well,

953
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,479
Speaker 1: before we go, I want to play a little game

954
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: called Guess he's squawking? The Mystery animal sound game. Every

955
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 1: week I play a mystery animal sound and you the listener,

956
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: and you're the guest. Try to guess who is making

957
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: that sound. It can be any animal in the world

958
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: on the planet Earth. If there's any animals outside of

959
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: planet Earth, I would also include them. So far, no luck,

960
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: but yes, So the hint for last week's mystery animal

961
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: sound was this, don't call this great animal a peasant,

962
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: all right, Jack, You have any guesses as to what

963
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: this could be? So the.

964
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 3: So the clue made me think it was some kind

965
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 3: of and the noise really makes me think it's a bird.

966
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 3: Really makes me think it's maybe some kind of owl.

967
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 3: But I could be miles off there, and I am

968
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 3: not the expert on bird song that I should be

969
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 3: given the topic of this week's episode.

970
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, we'll go with some kind of owl.

971
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'll put it this way, if I

972
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: had to play my own game, I don't think i'd

973
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: be very good at it. You are right that it

974
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: is a type of bird. Congratulations to Auntie B, Grant

975
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: W and Maran D who all guessed correctly. This is

976
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: not an owl but a great argus pheasant. So oh,

977
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: it's not the most common bird when one thinks of

978
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: a bird. So I was a little bit mean this

979
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: week did a pretty hard one. But these are found

980
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: in the rainforests of Borneo, and they actually look a

981
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: bit like peacocks. In fact, they are in the same

982
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: family as peacocks. It is the largest pheasant in the world,

983
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: with males weighing around six pounds or over two point

984
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 1: seven kilograms, and with a body length including its tail,

985
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: of up to around eighty inches or two hundred centimeters.

986
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: Females are mostly brown, as we talked about earlier with

987
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: the difference between males and females and peacock species, so

988
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,879
Speaker 1: in this the great argus pheasants, females are mostly brown.

989
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: They're somewhat plain, whereas males have this bright blue head,

990
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: this blue rust and brown feathers. They're not as brightly

991
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: colored as peacocks. They're not as spectacularly colored, but their

992
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 1: feathers still have these mini eye spots just like the peacock.

993
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 1: You see all of these eye spots on their feathers.

994
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: The great argus pheasant also has these eye spots that

995
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: are meant to impress females, and they will fan out

996
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 1: their tail in this amazing display. And so the male

997
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: will clear a staging area and issue a call just

998
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: like the one you heard, and as soon as it

999
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:13,280
Speaker 1: attracts its audience, hopefully a female who comes to listen,

1000
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 1: the male will fan out its tail like a peacock

1001
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: and dance for the female in hopes of enticing her

1002
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: to mate.

1003
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 3: Not just a singer, you're also a dancer. Is there

1004
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 3: a triple threat? Is there a third magic skill that

1005
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 3: they have?

1006
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 1: I mean probably the fan of tails with like so

1007
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: many eyes that makes them sound like a biblical angel

1008
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: where they're like, be not afraid, I just want to

1009
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: mate with you.

1010
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 2: So it's a strong image.

1011
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 3: Actually, I feel like we would all be enticed in

1012
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 3: if all of a sudden something appeared out of nowhere

1013
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 3: with a thousand heights, like amazed anyway by what it was.

1014
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: Well onto this week's mystery animal sound. The hint is

1015
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: this Madagascar native is named after the following alarm call, ge,

1016
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: do you have any guesses?

1017
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 3: So I know there is a Madagascar native that is

1018
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 3: a very iconic famous animal that is named after its call,

1019
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 3: but that doesn't sound like what its name is.

1020
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 2: So that's kind of that has thrown me. I have

1021
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: like because to me, my guess just based on the

1022
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 2: clue would have been raped. But that's not what I

1023
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 2: would have imagined that to sound like. So I'm like,

1024
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 2: I'm very like thrown off, So I think I'm gonna

1025
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 2: have to go with that and just like, wait and see.

1026
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: You are absolutely correct, and therefore I am going to

1027
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: bleep out your answer, but everyone will know that you

1028
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: are correct. So uh, yes, I guess you get a

1029
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: little extra hint there. You might be surprised to find

1030
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: out what its name is because it's call maybe doesn't

1031
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: sound as similar to its name as you would think,

1032
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: but it is meant to be an on amanopoia name.

1033
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: So good luck everyone, see if you can get it

1034
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: just as Jack has. And if you have a guess,

1035
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: and even if you think it's a wild guess, I

1036
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: don't care. Write to me at Creature Feature Pod at

1037
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Jack, thank you so much for joining

1038
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: me today to talk about puffin's conservation and some other

1039
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: species of ox. Where can people find you?

1040
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 3: So yes, thank you so much for having me. It's

1041
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 3: been an absolute pleasure. It was such a full circle

1042
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 3: moment for me to come and be able to talk

1043
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 3: about puffins.

1044
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 2: So it's been so fantastic.

1045
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 3: If you're interested in learning more about me and what

1046
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 3: I do, I am the host of Panglin the Conservation Podcast,

1047
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 3: which can be found on Spotify or Apple podcast or

1048
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcasts from. If wherever you're listening

1049
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 3: to this, I suppose you can also search for me.

1050
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 3: And that show is a celebration of all of the

1051
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 3: kind of underappreciated stories. It started off as a celebration

1052
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 3: of the pang and then I realized there are so

1053
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 3: many other animals which fall under this category of weird, underappreciated,

1054
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 3: bizarre creatures that people need to know more about, and

1055
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 3: so we've kept that as the title, and I've moved

1056
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 3: on now to talk about everything from giraffes to amphibians,

1057
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 3: to orchids to all sorts of.

1058
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 2: Bizarre, amazing things.

1059
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 3: And so yes, I'm there I'm at pangling podcast.

1060
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 2: On all of the social media's.

1061
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 3: If you're interested on me, on me personally rather than

1062
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 3: the content. If you're satisfied with your animal podcast content

1063
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 3: by listening.

1064
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: To this one impossible. No one can ever be satisfied.

1065
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. But

1066
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 3: if you are, you can find me on Twitter. I'm

1067
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 3: at only Jack Baker on Twitter. I'm at the only

1068
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 3: Jack Baker on Instagram all over the place. Find me,

1069
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 3: ask me questions, tell me to talk more about puffins.

1070
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: I'll do anything.

1071
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: You know. I'm there, Send him puffin paraphernalia. Yeah, this time,

1072
00:59:58,840 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: this time I'm ironic.

1073
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1074
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 3: Well, my favorite I didn't get to I didn't mention

1075
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 3: it during. My favorite favorite piece of puff and memorabilia

1076
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 3: in the house is not mine, but it's my mom's.

1077
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 3: We went to Iceland one year and they are in

1078
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 3: a gift shop. Was three puffins, like and they had

1079
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 3: their arms out like kind of like hooked like this,

1080
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 3: and there it's a wine bottle carrier. They just carry

1081
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 3: a bottle of wine. And I think it's fantastic.

1082
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 1: It's wonderful. I want that so much. I'm gonna have

1083
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: to go there just to get this puff and wine carrier. Well,

1084
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you guys so much for listening. If

1085
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: you're enjoying the show and you leave a rating or review,

1086
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: I would deeply appreciate that. I read all the reviews

1087
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: and I appreciate every single one of your ratings. Thank

1088
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: you so much, and thank you to the Space Classics

1089
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: for They're a super awesome song. XO. Lumina. Creature Feature

1090
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radio four more podcasts like

1091
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: the one you just heard. Visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts,

1092
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 1: or hey, guess what where we listening to your favorite shows.

1093
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: I don't judge you. In fact, you could listen to

1094
01:00:59,000 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: it in any way.

1095
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 2: That's fine.

1096
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: See you next Wednesday. Mm hmm