WEBVTT - #277 Maggie Freleng with Karen Boes 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:07.840 Jason, I have been coming across so many cases related 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:13.760 to bunk fire science, people who were convicted on what 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:18.200 we thought was scientific evidence of arson. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:18.840 Yeah. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.480 Arson is one of those things that everyone should care 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:25.960 about because it can literally happen to anyone. Electrical fires happen, 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.680 and it's unimaginable that someone could be wrongfully convicted by 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.040 somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about, yes, and 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:35.640 end up in prison for the rest of their life. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.440 I would agree. I think many many arson cases where 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:40.760 people have been convicted should be relooked at. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:51.479 I felt form rang and it was my son, and 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:56.680 he said the house of sun fire. I couldn't believe that. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.200 I just couldn't believe that my suspol wears rather like 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.720 est thing. Yeah, no, no, but it could locate. 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:11.000 From lava for good. This is wrongful conviction. With Maggie 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:24.679 Freeling today Karen Bowse. On the morning of July thirtieth, 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.600 two thousand and two, Karen bows was up early doing 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:31.440 chores and preparing for the day. At about eight thirty am, 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:33.800 as she was getting ready to leave the house, she 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.760 heard her fourteen year old daughter, Robin, shuffling around upstairs. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.440 Karen says She left about ten minutes later to go 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:45.560 shopping with her friend Judy. During the trip, she got 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.240 a call from her son Billy, saying their house was 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.400 on fire. Karen and Judy raced back to the house 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:56.320 and found police, firemen, and spectators everywhere. And then Karen 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.360 saw paramedics taking someone out of the house on a stretcher. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:01.200 It was her daughter, Robin. 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:07.240 She was dead instantly. 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.079 The police suspected that Karen, the last person at home 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.600 with Robin, could have been the culprit. After hours of 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.880 frutile interrogation, they arrested, charged, and convicted her of felony 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:22.960 murder of her daughter. But Karen says she didn't start 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.760 the fire that killed Robin. Why would she ever want 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:30.799 to hurt her kids? They were her pride and joy. 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.560 It was probably my greatest accomplishment, greatest thing I've ever done, 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:36.800 the best thing I've ever done in my life. You know, 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:43.960 just love being mother. My name is Karen both and 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:50.680 I was falsely convicted on the death of my daughter, Robin. 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.720 Karen Bowse was born March twenty third, nineteen fifty six. 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.800 She grew up in Holland, Michigan, a small town on 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.440 Lake Michigan, and she's one of two children. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.880 I had very good parents. SI. My father was a 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.280 little on the abusive side as far as her boy 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.880 and be mostly, but my mother was just the opposite. 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:32.440 But basically I lived a decent life, just a very 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:36.680 middle class. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.280 Karen's father owned a dental lab, and Karen eventually got 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.800 a job as a dental technician. In her early twenties, 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.360 she met Wayne Bows. It was a whirlwind romance and 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:51.160 they married when Karen was just twenty three. Karen continued 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.119 to work. In nineteen eighty four, when she was twenty eight, 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.320 she had her first child's Billy. 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:03.040 This just was a really good kid growing up. As 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.320 he calls himself, kind of a geek, but that's okay. 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.600 He loves computers. He's big in the reading department, and 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:14.960 just hanging out with his friends and stuff. 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.840 Karen became a stay at home mom, and a few 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.839 years later, in nineteen eighty eight, she had her second 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.320 child's Robin. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.680 She was just the love of my life. Your first 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.640 child is both special, but Robin was the love of 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.000 my life. She was attached to my head for years 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.920 and years and we just did everything together. 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.000 And Karen says, They had tea parties and went on 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.920 family camping trips and invented their own games. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:46.719 They used to play. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.719 We played this little game called mail Box. We had 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.160 these little tiny mail boxes and then we would write 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:59.080 each other a little love notes and different things and 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.520 back and forth, so kind of like snailmail, but it 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.960 was in our house. It was really cute, but it 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:08.360 was so endearing. 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.040 But as Robin got older, she got more rebellious. 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:23.640 About probably thirteen, we just got involved with the wrong group, 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:29.320 some different people that you know, weren't so healthy, and 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:34.160 we started having some issues with her. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.080 What was going on with her. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:42.919 She met a boy online and he was from her school, 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.279 but he wasn't somebody that she would have normally met 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:53.800 in person, but she was enanored with him online and 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:58.120 she finally met him at full He had a lot 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.720 of different things in his life that were not conducive 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.000 to how we were trying to raise or happen. 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.440 This caused a lot of tension and strife between Robin 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.640 and her parents. There was even police intervention a few 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.760 times to help calm their arguing. Wayne and Karen got 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.760 Robin into therapy, but she drifted further and further away 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.719 from them. She even inquired about emancipating herself from her parents. 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.039 Despite all this turmoil, Karen was hopeful it would pass. 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.520 I just was very confident that, you know, I was 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:39.960 just teenage and eventually she'd come back around. We'd be friends, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.680 just like my mom and I were best friends. 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:50.719 But that wouldn't happen. In July of two thousand and two, 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.159 Karen and Wayne had planned a family trip to a 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.000 cabin about two hours north of where they lived. 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:00.520 They were I'm not going to take our family vacation, 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:05.080 which we normally took in July, and we've had entered 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.160 a cab and that we were going to stay at. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.760 But Drovin did not want to go. She just started 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:17.640 a brand new job at local restaurant and she was 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.200 going to be starting in ninth grade in high school. 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.840 Robin wanted to stay back and work at her new 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.400 job and attend the activities the school was putting on 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.840 for the summer. Karen says she compromised by having Robin's 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.920 older brother, Billy, drive Robin back and forth so she 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.520 could go to the school events. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.120 But she really was trying to stay home. She wanted 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.760 to be home, stay by herself and not come on 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:44.760 vacation with us. 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.920 The evening of July twenty ninth, Karen, Waene and Robin 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:53.240 got into an argument about the vacation. Robin stomped upstairs 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.320 and locked herself in her bedroom. Karen followed to try 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:57.280 and smooth things over. 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.840 I got for us and asked like a command, and 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.720 she let me in. She was sitting on the floor, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:12.920 and I walked over and kissed her on the head, 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:17.880 top of the head, and told her that I loved her. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:17.360 And. 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:24.840 She went yeah, like really like she didn't believe that, 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.000 you know, I loved her, And but I was very 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.480 glad that I had told her. I had that nice 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.240 you know. Now at that time, I didn't see, you know, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.559 really realize the significance of it. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.080 The next morning, July thirtieth, two thousand and two, Karen 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.280 was up early, making coffee and doing chores. As she 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.240 was getting ready to leave the house, she could hear 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.000 that Robin had woken up, but she says she didn't 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.439 see her. That morning, Billy and Wayne had already left 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:05.080 for work at a local autobody shop. Karen left around 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.320 eight forty am. She first stopped to see Wayne at 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.000 his shop and. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:17.000 Asked him for some cash that I could, you know, 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.680 use just for fun and for going out to launch. 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.000 Karen then headed out to pick up her friend Judy. 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.720 They had planned to go shopping in Grand Rapids, about 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.160 a half hour away from the Boss home in Zealand. 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.880 She stopped and got them both a quick breakfast. 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.480 First, we were going to go shopping to the mall. 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:36.920 We were going to go out for lunch. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.720 This is Judy, the friend that Karen was with. Karen 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.040 and Judy knew each other from high school and are 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.320 still friends to this day. Judy says, it was just 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:47.280 a normal day. 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.320 You know, we're just talking because we were both going 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.120 to go on vacation and what we're going to shop 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:59.160 for and she wanted new shoes, so we went to 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:00.280 the shoest. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.360 Not long after arriving in Grand Rapids, Karen received a 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.720 phone call from Billy and. 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:15.479 He said the house was on fire. And we immediately 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.160 turned around. I couldn't believe it. 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:19.520 I just couldn't believe. 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.840 That, you know, he really he says, yes, the house 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.160 is on fire, and I said, well, where is Robin. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:31.400 That's the biggest thing. Yeah, no, nobody could locate her, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.280 I said, well, last I know she was and ill fed. 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.040 Karen and Judy raced back to the house. By the 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:49.400 time they came home, the house was inundated with police, firemen, 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.640 and spectators. Karen was overwhelmed and in a panic. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.760 She was hysterical and she was trying to go into 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:04.480 the house and she was uh kind of They held 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.480 her down because she wanted to go in. 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.600 The fireman who went to the house noticed that the 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.920 fire was confined upstairs in Robin's room and the area 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:21.480 near it. Outside, Karen saw paramedics taking someone out of 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:22.360 the house. 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:30.760 When that was robbing honest streasure. I could tell by 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.360 the look that my husband's face that she wasn't alive. 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:37.520 That was. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.120 Just devastating. I did everything I could to try to 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.680 run into the house beforehand, but Friday, when I found 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:55.800 out she was in the house, but people just held 0:11:55.840 --> 0:12:00.480 me down so I couldn't run into the house. And 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:08.120 this and all that will be my little baby is 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:17.240 I thought of odd, Yes, it just does, just like 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.000 your whole life is fancy. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:22.320 There's nothing last. 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:39.080 This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:43.480 AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.520 a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.600 in the communities where we work and live. In light 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.360 of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:58.040 in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.520 the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:11.320 other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Investigators from the 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.920 Michigan State Police soon swung into action to determine the 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.200 cause of the fire at the Boses house. They collected 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.400 carpet samples from the hallway outside Robin's room, as well 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:25.000 as from her bedroom for analysis. Testing for the presence 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.440 of liquid accelerants in the hallway later came back negative, 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.720 but gasoline was found both in Robin's room and on 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.319 her clothes. The investigators also found a five gallon can 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.480 of gasoline in the corner of her bedroom, along with 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:44.400 used and unused matches, candles, and incense. There were numerous 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:48.280 electrical cords plugged into the wall outlets and a power strip. 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.640 The can was also eventually sent for testing, but no 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:59.000 fingerprints were found. Karen was the last person to be 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.280 in the house with Robins that morning, so she went 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.000 to the police station to give her statement, but she 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.280 ended up being questioned. The next day. Her clothes, as 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.120 well as the car she took to them, all with Judy, 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.400 were collected for testing. When testing came back, nothing revealed 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:19.160 the presence of gasoline or an accelerant. Regardless, investigators pressed 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.520 Karen for answers. 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.600 And all the sisters within hours of this kay happening. 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.840 I got pulled. Then I had to write a statement 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:36.000 at the police station, and oh I did. I wrote 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:40.000 down just what I thought, you know, my estimation of 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.160 what happened. I was just devastated. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:47.960 Still, State Police Detective Michael Harris and Zealand Police Chief 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:52.160 William Olney questioned Karen again a week later. Only was 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:53.440 actually a family friend. 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.760 She has a neighbor and we went to the same church, 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.160 I maybe said as kids camping with me. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.280 Karen trusted him at this point, she didn't know she 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:06.680 was considered a suspect. 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:12.240 I grew up believing fully that the police are there 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:17.560 to help to help protect me, to help protect my community. 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.880 That's how I grew up. You know, those are my 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:27.440 core beliefs. So I didn't think anything of you know, 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.240 what was going on. They kept questioning me and pulling 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:36.200 me on and stuff. They kept telling me that they 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.160 weren't going to help me find out what happened to 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.720 my daughter. And there was nothing more that I wanted 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.440 at that point than to find out what happened to 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:45.560 my Robin. 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.640 So you trusted only, you know, you thought he was trying. 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:51.920 To help you. 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:57.960 Absolutely I did. I had no doubt that. No, I 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.120 believe he was very upstand you know, I never thought 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.280 any difference. Yes, I had full faith in him. 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.280 By this time, the police had determined that the fire 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.560 was not an accident. Karen picked up on the fact 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.120 that she was the main suspect during an almost ten 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:20.000 hour interrogation eight days after the fire. She was grieving 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.040 the loss of her daughter and alarmed that investigators would 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:24.720 even consider her the culprit. 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.520 I was shocked. It was just like, how in the 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.800 world could you think this, you know, just about me, 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:39.200 that I was part of anything of that. It went 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.680 on for hours and hours. You know, I was doing 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:47.400 everything I could to convince them that just wasn't absolutely, 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:52.560 you know, nothing at all, that I had anything I'd 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.040 all have to do with this, you know. 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.120 Karen says that in those days she was an alcoholic 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.080 working on recovery, even though she had been about forty 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.040 days sober at the time. The police started asking her 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.720 if maybe she blacked out and intentionally started the fire. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:14.240 They kept giving me different scenarios of what they thought 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:18.560 could have happened. And I'll say, Karen, I'll just put 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:24.040 yourself in these shoes. You know, you're walking through the room. 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:28.520 You're doing this and that and this, and now what 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:32.639 did you see? What did you do that? And so 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:38.640 on and so forth, And it went on for hours, 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:46.280 like psychological imagine you're a little devil sitting on your shoulder, 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.400 and on the other shoulder there's an angel and they're 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:55.000 talking to you, and the angels saying, oh, you know 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.960 you love your daughter and would never do anything to her. 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.600 Karen says only actually presented the scenario to her. He 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.639 said to concentrate on what he called her good mind 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.760 and bad mind, but she kept denying any involvement. She says. 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.000 She continued to answer their questions, hoping they would figure 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.399 out the truth of what happened to her daughter. But 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:23.760 that's not what happened. Special Agent Eduardo Fernandez actually told 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.199 Karen they found evidence against her like fingerprints on the 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.280 gas can, but it was a lie. At this point, 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.440 they didn't even have the results back yet, and later 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.080 when the results did come back, remember no prints were 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:43.359 found on the gas can. After hours of interrogation, the 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.639 police finally broke Karen down. She wavered, saying maybe she 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.280 was in a dream or an unconscious state when the 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.680 fire started. In my conscious mind, I didn't do this, 0:18:53.960 --> 0:19:02.240 Karen told them, But I could have went temporarily insane 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:06.479 after the interrogation, Karen was so distraught, Wayne brought her 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.679 to a psychiatric hospital for two nights. Once she recovered, 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:15.480 Karen again vehemently denied any involvement. In subsequent interviews, she 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.920 told the officers she knew they were lying about information 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.280 they relayed to her, but it didn't matter. About six 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.680 weeks after Robin's death, on September twelfth, Karen was arrested 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.720 and charged with felony murder. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.000 I was just totally shocked when they told me, and 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.520 the arrest of the devis it was just crazy, tell me. 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.880 Karen's trial started on February fourth, two thousand and three. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.160 The prosecutor was John Holsang, who is now a judge 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.840 in Michigan. His theory was that Karen intentionally started the 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.840 fire in the hallway outside of Robin's room because their 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:02.320 relationship was so fraud and her drinking problem sent her 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:09.119 over the edge enough to kill her child. Expert testimony 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:13.560 was presented by two fire investigators, special Agent Michael Marquart 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.919 from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives and 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.840 John Dehan, an expert who was retained by the state. 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:22.640 They had both said the fire started in the hallway, 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.199 but by this time they had the results of the 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.719 hallway samples, and despite the fact that no ignitable liquid 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.440 residue was detected there, they still said an accelerant must 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.439 have been used. They made their conclusions based on the 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.159 fire damage patterns. The prosecution also played parts of the 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:44.400 recordings of Karen's interrogations, specifically talking about being potentially blacked 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:50.439 out or in a dream. Attorney David Zessen represented Karen 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:55.960 on cross examination. Zessen asked investigator Eduardo Fernandez about lying 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.800 to Karen. Fernandez answered, quote, not only am I trained 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.159 in the h I teach that end quote it is 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:08.320 actually legal for police to lie during interrogations. Zessen also 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.760 presented his own expert who refuted the state's fire evidence. 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.280 He said the fire actually started in Robin's room, noting 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.520 that no accelerant was sound in the hallway and that 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:22.399 Robin's room quote contained numerous sources of ignition. The expert 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.720 also said that the person who set the fire would 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.879 have severe burn injuries or at least singing of the 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:32.560 eyebrow's hair and some clothing. While Karen showed none of 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.920 these signs, Robin's autopsy revealed exactly that her eyebrows, hair, 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.840 and clothing were scorched, suggesting the fire did start in 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:48.080 Robin's room and was perhaps even started by Robin. The 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.159 autopsy also found that she died of asphyxiation, likely passing 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:54.720 out from the smoke before she died. There were no 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.479 signs of a struggle or fight of any kind and 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:03.400 no injuries other than those from the fire, but this 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.880 wasn't enough for the jury. On February twenty first, two 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.760 thousand and three, forty seven year olds Karen Bows was 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.320 found guilty of first degree felony murder of her daughter. 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.800 She was sentenced to life in prison without parole. 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.560 I thought, anytime they're gonna know, I'll figure out that 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.959 I didn't do this. I had that feeling up until 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:30.640 the time the jury came to a verdict. I believed 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:35.480 in the system fully. I knew I wasn't guilty. I 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.920 was sure that everything was going to work out all right. Boy, 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:43.639 sure sounds like a good Pollyanna story, doesn't. 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:58.200 Karen's first years in prison were unimaginable. Sentenced to death 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.040 by incarceration for the murder of her beloved daughter. 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:06.080 There was a lot of few years there after Robin 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:11.359 died that I didn't feel like I had any reason 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.280 to live, and I really didn't want to. 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:18.080 At first, Karen's husband, Wayne, was her supporter. He was 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:20.840 adamant she didn't start the fire, that she couldn't have, 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:23.760 but then he learned about something Karen had told police 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:27.879 during the investigation. While questioning her, the police asked Karen 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:30.000 if she wanted to get anything out in the open. 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.280 She told them years earlier she had an affair, but 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:35.120 Wayne didn't know about this. 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:40.680 The police told him about it and sold them be 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:44.040 kind of turned against me, really turned against me. So 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.639 I'll expected that, and it really felt like I broke 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:51.879 up the pan. He wasn't enough stick around with me 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:56.000 since I had an affair, So it was just me 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:58.439 and my man was just my false as all. 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:03.800 And what was going on with your son during all 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:04.120 of this? 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:09.119 He was just kind of living this teenage life he 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:16.760 had become eighteen. Shortly after Robin died, he was devastated, 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.080 of course, as we all were. While we're having Steff, 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:28.320 and he sort of just stayed neutral, you know, and 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:36.080 through the trial and everything, he no longer is neutral. 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:40.199 Karen says she knows Billy now has a family of 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:43.400 his own, but she's never met her grandchildren. Nor has 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:45.119 she seen Billy in decades. 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:48.480 So he's never visited you. 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:52.119 No, No, he hasn't. He really believed, like his father, 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:54.360 that I just ruined everything. 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:59.120 Does he think that you're you're the one who who 0:24:59.240 --> 0:24:59.840 killed Robin? 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:08.680 Understand he said he didn't know, and now he says, 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:13.480 the court saw me guilty. I'm guilty and as authors 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:19.080 to it. So I just had then had to come 0:25:19.119 --> 0:25:22.760 to terms with that, you know, to some sort of 0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:24.000 peace with that. 0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:29.240 Through the years, despite her situation, Karen pushed on with 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:30.199 life in prison. 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.880 I am just had some very good jobs. I've had 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:38.800 a lot of good training. They have a good mental 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:42.400 health vice here and I've just been able to take 0:25:42.440 --> 0:25:46.680 a lot of classes, and I was mentor at to 0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:52.160 different places for ten years. So I'm just very very 0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:55.480 fulfilling life. I paid here, but. 0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:58.040 It wasn't until a few years ago that things started 0:25:58.080 --> 0:25:59.919 to really look up for Karen. 0:26:00.720 --> 0:26:04.159 I'm David Moran. I'm the co director of the Michigan 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:06.200 Innocence Clinic at the University of Michigan Law. 0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:09.160 School, and you are Karen's attorney. 0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:11.480 I am. 0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:15.520 In twenty nineteen, David and the Michigan Innocence Clinic took 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:18.879 on Karen's case. David says, right off the bat, the 0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:22.359 entire investigation was bad, and he knew this because he's 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.760 very familiar with forensic science. Before he decided to go 0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:28.720 to law school, David was part way through his PhD 0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:35.360 in particle physics that forensic science cases interest and infuriate him. 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:40.080 That fire investigation concluded that the fire had started in 0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:44.359 the hallway outside Robin's bedroom, when in fact, all the 0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:47.800 evidence really indicates that the fire started inside Robin's bedroom. 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:50.680 If you're wondering how this kind of disagreement on where 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:53.919 the fire started could exist, David says, it has to 0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:57.959 do with how fire investigations have evolved over the years. 0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:06.400 Fire investigation, until really about fifteen years ago, was pretty 0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:12.000 much junk science. Nationwide. Fire investigators were generally not trained scientists. 0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:16.600 They were actually usually retired firemen, and they were passed 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:21.760 down wisdom from prior fire investigators, and so much of 0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:25.600 this wisdom had never been tested. And so the fire 0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:29.639 investigation community was taught that if you see certain signs 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.720 that tells you that a fire was an arson, that 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:35.800 an accelerant was used, and also you can use some 0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:38.800