WEBVTT - The Deadly Threat Waiting in Our Forests2 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.440 It could happen. Here is a podcast. Sometimes it's about 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.640 good stuff and ways people can fix things. Sometimes it's 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.920 about frightening stuff like today, today's a scary episode. Joining 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:22.760 me to scare everybody is Professor Calvin Norman. Calvin, how 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.400 are you doing today? Oh, Robert, I do well some days, 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.400 but most days not. I work on climate change, invasive species, 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.879 forest health issues, a chronic waste disease. So were their 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.120 problems with those things? Okay? Well, actually last time were 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.120 we talked about climate change? Solve that. So we're good there, 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.880 that's all been solving. We locked that down, right, Yeah, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.000 you get. We got the we got the eels fed. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.320 That was the problem. Oh yeah, yeah, there's like a 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:52.000 car comb it's electric. We're good. We're nailing it. So 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.840 I get. We had you on the show once before 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:59.120 to talk about how the forest is bad. Uh yeah, um, 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.400 still bad. Still a lot of problems in the forest, 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.520 as the people who are watching their forests burn can 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.080 probably uh say. Although there's other problems than that, as 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.160 we talked about in your episode. Didn't mean an email 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:11.840 a while back. It took a bit for me to 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.560 get my ship together to have you back on. But 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:17.280 it was a frightening email about a disease sweeping through 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.559 the country that could have massive effects on the lives 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.720 of everybody listening to this. Um, And it's not one 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.000 of the diseases that you're all thinking about. I know, 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.560 there's a couple of things that meet that decision that 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.320 that like, there's a couple of different diseases running a 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:35.160 check throughout the United States at the moment and the world. Um, 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.280 we are not talking about either of the ones that 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:39.880 are big in the news right now. We're gonna talk 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.520 about chronic wasting disease calviny. You want to kind of 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.720 introduce that concept to the people, because this was not 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.120 something I really I had heard of it, but I didn't. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.400 It was just kind of like, you know, animals have 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.120 weird diseases, right, cats get you know, lymphoma or whatever. 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.400 I never thought about it much as a as a 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.600 thing that was a problem other than a problem for 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.680 some deer. But it is. It is quite an issue. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.000 it's if it stays in dear, I will be happy. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.480 Let's put it like that. So, um, we're gonna actually 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:09.919 like do a little throwback to the past year. Watch 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.480 watch out, anyone whole lot. So we're gonna go back 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:17.160 to the nineties. All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna get 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.760 my shoulder pads on, I'm gonna get my X Files 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.680 poster stuck up on the wall. I'm gonna vote for 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:30.520 a serial sexual abuser. Well that's that's every decade. Um, okay, sorry, So, 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.040 so chronic wasting diseases a pry and the reason we're 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:34.679 going back to is a prian disease. And the reason 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.040 we're going back to the nineties is to to look 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.320 at the the most the biggest like reason anyone would 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.880 have heard of a prion disease outside of like you 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.239 know some like you know, brain scientists and stuff, and 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:49.440 that's you know, bov line bovine sponge form, its appalopathy, 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:54.560 or more commonly known as mad cow disease. So you know, Robert, 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.720 I'm not sure how much you are aware of mad cow. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.919 It popped up in the US in the two thousand's, 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.679 but it killed a bunch of people in England in 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.080 the nineties. Yeah, isn't there like there's still restrictions on 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.040 like blood donation and stuff if you lived in England 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.200 at a certain period, right, Like there's some weird ship 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.640 like that. Yeah, you can't donate blood for that. Um, 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.320 that's a very good reason. We're going too that in 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.079 a second. Actually always in England not too long ago, 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:20.919 and I did not eat beef there because I've read 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.960 too much about prions to mess around with that stuff. Yeah, 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.920 I mean, thankfully here in America we have health food standards, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.400 unlike those filthy Brits. But yeah, yeah we had a scare. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.920 Um Canada head a scare and we'll talk about the 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.080 repercussions of that later. But so the reason we're going 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.200 back is we're gonna look at the most recent time 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.640 prians have become mainstream. So what happened there? So l well, 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.320 let me just unfold this a little bit. That's a joke, 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:50.600 y'all all understand it three minutes hopefully. So a prion, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.400 it's a protein in your brain. Now, UM, I'm not 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.880 a neurologist. I am a wildlife biologist. Force sorry, So, um, 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:00.640 I'm not gonna be the answer I question out there 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.720 about brains and proteins and stuff like that. Um, but 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.120 what what the prion protein in your brain does is 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.200 it moves copper around, which is important for cell stuff. 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.880 I personally think that mankind should have never looked through 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.080 a microscope and everything at the celler level is just heresy. 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.760 We shouldn't look at it at all. Now, I'm i'm, I'm, 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:21.920 I'm completely on board with you. There. There's certain things 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:23.960 we never should have studied, and anything that involves a 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.960 microscope is one of them. Oh yeah, you lost me there. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.599 HandLens I'm good for you can like see like small stuff, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.560 but microscopes out. Okay. So, so in your brain you're 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.400 moving around copper and stuff and it's important for like 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.720 cell stuff. So, um, we're gonna go back to high 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:40.920 school biology. For most folks. You know, proteins building block 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.400 of life important. So your protein structure is dictated by 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.360 the elements in it and how they're like arranged, you know, 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.400 like stacked on top of each other. So that's that's basic, 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.719 you know, high school biology. But then you know, as 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:56.520 you get a little bit further in biology, you find 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.400 out there's it's a little bit more complex. So proteins, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.480 like all things in our real world, are unfortunately not 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.560 like in the textbook, and these are three D and 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:09.480 so they have like shapes and folds. Now, when folded correctly. 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:14.080 It just priam protein operates normally and just moves copper around. Um. 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.680 Unfortunately doesn't always you know, sometimes it doesn't fold correctly. 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.160 And when that happens, it doesn't move copper, and so 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:23.760 brains have a little bit of an issue because they 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.000 don't get copper. Yeah, and this is why all those 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.360 trucks stops sell those copper bands that you can put 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.160 on your wrist to solve diseases. Right, it's to deal 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:33.960 with that. Yeah, you just keep that copper band on 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.000 your rest solve that problem. Yeah. So so what what 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.679 happens when that happens is you get a prion disease. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.320 There are some that evolve in that just like they 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.200 don't evolve because they're not living um that just pop 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.280 up in nature. So like a spongef bovine spongef form 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.440 and sepalopathy mad cow rappings a little bit Earli talking 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.240 about in a second scrapey uh, feline sponge form and 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.320 sepalopathy which comes from cats that eight meat that was 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:02.720 infected with mad cow um. And then there's kuru. I think, yeah, 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.320 that's the one cannibals get, right, Like this is famously 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.240 why cannibals quote unquote go crazy. Actually a lot of cannibals. 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.320 We're well aware that you don't eat meat from certain areas, 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.480 but it is a thing. If you're going to eat people, 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.680 be really careful about the spine. Don't eat brains and 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.720 spines yet. That's that's exactly. Yeah. Um, there's um and 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:27.280 in humans it's called um the spongeforms ceplopathy. I'm gonna 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.000 explain the big word in one second. It's called Cromhelds 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:34.560 Yakops disease. It was yeah, two Germans, really neat stuff. Yeah, 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.240 it's one of my favorite disease names because you just 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.279 know you're in for some like horrifying shit when you 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.400 when you see the that spelled out, you're like, well, 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.800 that's got to be something bad. Yeah. Well, luckily, like 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:51.520 you know, for two German guys like alive in the thirties, yeah, 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:56.919 died good stuff. Like they two German doctors who weren't 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.200 Nazis in that period. Yeah, it seems like one of 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.520 them died right before things like that, you know, things 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.960 went out there. And then yeah yeah, okay, so so 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.360 I've been throwing around this word spongeform at sepalopathy UM 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.920 and then like you know, I change like the you know, bovine, feline, whatever. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.640 So it a sponge off form means something looks like 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.200 a sponge. And then it's tepalopathy means brain So your 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.080 brain turns into a sponge. And that's because you're not 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.680 getting copper and so cell cells are falling apart, and 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.239 it's your brain just doesn't work, to be real simple, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.880 it's kind of like Alzheimer's. That's how like presenting humans, 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.320 which is why it's really hard to figure out. Right. 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.960 And then when you want to determine that something has 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.480 spongeform and sepalopathy, you've got to cut the brain open, 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:43.160 look at it under a microscope. UM. And as you 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.400 can imagine, that doesn't usually happen in people. You don't 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.960 usually cut the brains open, and also in a lot 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:50.800 of animals you don't usually cut the brain open, look 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.680 at it under microscope. Well it's bad for them, right, 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.960 that's not. Yeah, it's always lethal, always a lethal sample. 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.000 So like that's the basics of what a prion disease is. UM. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.120 And then when we saw it in in England, what 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.280 had what had happened was got into cows. Cows got 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.440 it from eating other cows that were fed back to them, 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.640 and then it got into humans because we ate what 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.880 we the Brits in the third inties in the nineties 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:19.120 eight cows that were infected with bovine spongef form's eplopapy, 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.800 and you had to eat a good amount of it 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.640 for it to build up in your brain. And what 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.840 I mean by that is we're Americans, right right, So 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.640 not a problem for Americans. I just want to kind 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.200 of like lay a foundation so we all understand what's going. Um. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:35.520 And so what I mean I build up in your 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.480 brain is like you know, you get like one two 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.360 proteins in there, You're fine, It's okay. Proteins misfold at 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.480 the time, it takes you know, brains are big, especially 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:43.800 in humans, so it takes a while for this to 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.520 be going problem. But what happens is over time is 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.120 one is, once you build up enough, you're get exposed 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.680 to enough prions that are misfolded, like the prions in 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.400 the brains start misfolding, and then slowly your brain just 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:02.240 starts stops functioning correctly. Yeah, it's you know, it's it's 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.800 like a chain, like a slow chain reaction. UM. So 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.360 that's the basics of of um prying diseases and a 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:15.040 spongeform and cephalopathies. Now we're talking about chronic wasting disease UM, 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.680 which can be easily described as the dear equivalent of 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.319 mad cow disease. And like when you see a lot 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.559 of stuff about it, people just it's like called like 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.000 zombie deer because like deer get weird when they are 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.880 like dying from chronic wasting disease. Like the name chronic 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.960 wasting disease comes from because they like wasting away. They're 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.439 like drooling and also drinking a lot. They act weird, 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.640 they look dumb. Um, they just do weird stuff, and 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:45.480 so people call it zombie like dear, but they're not um. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.600 They're just infected with a prime disease and their brightness 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.839 falling apart. It's like it's like a person getting Alzheimer's, 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.640 Like you know, they do weird stuff. My grandma has 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:57.160 Alzheimer's is terrible, don't get it? Yeah, yeah, my grandma 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.800 had um, the same thing that Robin Williams got the 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.400 Loue body dimension. It's it's pretty much the same thing, right, 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:05.840 Like you can just see somebody kind of falling apart 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.520 piece by piece, but that probably does make the deer 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.400 easier to hunt, yes, and it also makes it really 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.400 easy to identify when it's it's advanced stages in dear, 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.760 So we've got kind of an understanding of about it. 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.960 But like, you know, why do we care? We are people? 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.319 We are not, dear, right, Robert, are you a deer? Uh? 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.320 Not right now? I mean I have been to a 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:32.400 furry convention, but but I didn't commit. So we all 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:37.320 got our things. Well, Um, so I I hunt, dear Robert, 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.480 I think you hunt. I don't know. I'm getting I'm 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.440 getting ready for for hunting season as we as we speak. Yeah, 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:48.000 so so, um, lots of people hunt deer and they 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.520 eat deer, which is which is cool, and it's fine 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.400 and it's important to do in you know, certain ecosystems. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.520 I mean in most of the US, like, deer have 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.200 been hunted by various you know humans for yes, as 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.719 long as people have in here, so you know, it's 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.720 it's a natural thing to do. It's very normal for 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.240 people to hunt deer, and it's very normal. And also 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.840 there are areas where we killed everything else that hunts deer. Yeah, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.880 so there's there's anyway whatever. We don't need to defend 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.520 deer hunting here. I I've done hours of webinars on 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.000 the points of deer management. It's it's a real fun 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:22.959 subject to you. But we do care about that. We're 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.120 talking about chronic waste disease, fun stuff, so so we 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.640 care about that. We care about chronic wasting disease because 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.600 it impacts all members of the servant family or deer. 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.959 So that's you know, elk moose. I just learned the 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:41.560 Europeans called moose European elk, wild arrogant. Yeah, look at 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.480 a moose. Look at an elk. Super different. It's wildly 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.320 different animals. Like they're both very big, but they're also 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.040 different sizes. It's like the difference between like an armored 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.200 car and a tank. Like a fucking moose is like 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.760 it's basically an elephant in terms of its footprints. Like 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:02.000 they're so cool to see but so enormous. Yeah. Yeah, 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.320 the impact it can get in all servants that we know, 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.520 it's um and you know, people like you know, people 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.719 like to see servants, they like to hunt servants. We'd 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.160 like to do it, you know in different countries. They're delicious, 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.800 they have the best meat. Yes, absolutely, so much better 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.160 than fucking beef, so much better than pork in my opinion, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.120 like fucking love venicel Oh, yeah, moose. I don't know 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.720 if you had moose. I've had once. Oh it's yeah, 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.240 moose and elk wonderful meats. That's actually a big thing 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.760 Joe Rogan and I talk about when we're hanging out 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.880 is elk meat. He's a big elk meat guy. That's good. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.960 I've I've never I've never hunted an elk. I've put 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:41.439 in for the lottery every year. But it's hard to 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.640 get hard to get elk tags in Pennsylvania. I know. 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:45.599 It's a real surprise. Yeah, you know what, I'll go 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.680 ahead and reach out now. It's easy to get the 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.240 tags here, but it is hard unless you have a 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.720 friend with land that elks are on to actually hunt 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.600 them as as much as Yeah. Anyway, if you've got 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:58.640 land in Oregon and you want me to hunt elk 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:04.520 on it, hit hit us up. Yeah. So so you know, 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:06.720 as we can see, this is a clear demand for 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.920 servants and serfarent products and so in like the fifties 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.000 and sixties, people started, you know, they're like, well, you 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.120 know sometimes you're not always good at hunting, and not 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.800 everyone wants the hunt, so they started trying to domesticate 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:23.240 and farm them, right, um servants famously like running away, 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.880 I've seen a lot of deer tails, Robert, you hunt, 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.679 I'm sure you have. Yeah, and a lot of like 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.960 tracks that you can tell and like with ship or 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.960 something near them that like, oh, man, I fucking missed 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.160 that son of a bit by like thirty seconds. Yeah. Yeah, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.320 and if if, even if you drive around, you'll see 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.079 just they're like, oh car, I'm out in five thousand. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.720 That don't need to be here. Sometimes they go across 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:50.040 the road and hit him. That's the story, yea some states. Yeah, 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.040 you know, sometimes it's Bruce to heck. But that is 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:54.400 how I get to eat some moose. Someone hit it 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.280 with a car. Hell yeah. Um but um. So they 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.440 don't like being in captivity at all. Not a fan, 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.200 not a fan, and so they're very they're very stressed 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.240 in captivity. And then like in the sixties in Colorado, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:11.600 um at on the Colorado University of Colorado, on their 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.800 deer farm, they noticed like the deer were getting skinny 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.480 and weird. And that's how that's where chronic wasting disease 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.840 was discovered because we tried to fucking farm an animal 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.440 that's not okay, awesome, I love it. Yeah, yeah, there 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.760 there are some folks who think that it's a natural thing, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.240 but it doesn't look like it doesn't look like it. Uh, 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.280 no reports of it being around from before the sixties. 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.720 And as we laid out, lots of people ate a 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.160 lot of deer and saw a lot of deer before 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.960 the sixties, so probably came from farming servants. So then 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.320 since then, um, there's the deer. Farming is not really regulated. 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.640 And also deer are not really easy to keep in captivity. 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.120 They like to jump and like when fences, fences blow down, 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.840 and so they'll get out of captivity. And like also 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.320 other deer they like come up to you know, captive 0:14:58.360 --> 0:14:59.920 deer and they're like, yo, what's up with you though 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.040 you're in a cage, huh, And so you can actually 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.080 see them. They'll interact through the fence. Um, and that's 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.960 probably how it got out of containment, is through interactions 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.800 and you know, servants being spread around the country. And 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.160 so now chronic waste disease is found in thirty states 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:23.480 I think four Canadian provinces, UH, Scandinavia and Korea, So 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.840 I think it's four or five countries. So so it's 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.840 out there. It's out there. Um, and it's it's infecting 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.800 certain populations across the US and across the across Canada, 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.040 the world. Um, it's real bad. It's real bad. So 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.920 it seems like a problem. Yeah. Yeah, So if you're 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.480 a deer, what happens is you either interact with to 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.520 pick up chronic wasting disease. We'll go through the deer 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.520 kind of the progression and dear to pick it up. 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.400 Do you either interact with the deers that has chronic 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.200 wasting disease? You go up and smell them, you look 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.080 them a little bit, deer groom each other, you know, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.760 the the animals. Um, you eat plant that another deer 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.360 pooped on, now doesn't have to have pooped on that plant. 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.840 So like this is a deal. It's effective with chronic 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.920 chronic waste disease. Can poop in the soil and the 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.600 plant will pick up the prayon from the soil and 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.000 then yeah, and then another deer can come in it 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:21.640 can just spread. Yeah cool, that's that's some real scary yeah. Yeah, 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.320 And it can also you can also pick it up 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.320 from water, but it has spreading in water is really tough. 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.640 So um, those are your main vectors is you know, 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.240 deer to deer and environment to deer um. And that's 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.680 why it's pretty tough to control once it gets into 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.320 a state, because to destroy it you have to dig 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.360 up the soil and you have to burn it a 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:42.800 thousand degrees for an hour, or you have to expose 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.280 exposure to bleach for an hour to destroy the prion 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.160 because it's not a living thing, it's a protein. Yeah, 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:49.840 I mean, and there are a couple of towns that 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:51.560 I would be okay doing that too, but on a 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.080 wide scale that seems difficult to pull off. Yeah. I 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.400 can think of a state that starts with an O 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.240 in an age that I wouldn't mind losing, you know, 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.119 if we just were like, why not give it a shot? Yeah, 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.639 it's just Ohio, come on, it's not it's not a 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:20.359 real state. So in Deer, we we're gonna just we're 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:21.960 gonna stay just in the deer where we're not gonna 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.080 get scary yet. So in in Dear, this slowly builds 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.639 up throughout the population and you get worst case scenarios 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:33.840 like in south western Wisconsin where like the deer harvested 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.080 h bucks harvested a year are positive for chronic wasting disease, 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.040 and because it's an always fatal you know, brain disease, 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:47.000 you're looking at population collapse in extinction. Yeah, because it 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.359 remains in the soil too, Like it's it's around for 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.080 at least two probably more years. But the studies we've 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.399 done our only two years. Because um, these are not 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.480 fun things to study. People have died studying these diseases 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.199 from prions like and they when they've done work on 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:06.160 like BSc laptech actually pricked herself with the tool uh 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.680 and got um c j c j D and died 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.480 from it. So yeah, they're not fun to study really, 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.680 you know that's this is like we're talking like Martians 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:21.840 suit style study stuff. It's not fun. So yeah, the 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.920 stand level ship yeah yeah, yeah exactly. Yeah. So so 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:31.080 like you know it without you know, when chronic waste 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.320 disease is not addressed into your populations, like in southeastern 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.800 or southwestern Wisconsin, you're looking at extinction level stuff because 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.720 all of the deer that are out there are most 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.720 you know se them have chronic waste disease or at 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.679 some point in getting chronic waste disease, which means that 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:48.920 they're putting more and more of in the environment and 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.080 they're more like, if you're a non infected deer, you're 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.479 you know, three cores. Your buddies are infected, so you're 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.920 gonna get chronic wasting disease and be dead within two 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.639 or three years. So you're looking at extinction of all 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.320 servants in that area for some amount of time until 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.960 it comes out of the soil. That's bad. That is 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.040 a problem, yes, yeah, yeah, as we have established, neither 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.480 of us are dear, So why do we care? I 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.280 mean outside of like the fact that deer are pretty 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.879 important to the ecology of local areas and that that 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.520 collapses bad? Yeah, why what is what is the problem? Like, 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.000 what is the risks to human beings beyond that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.840 we we we put in college all aside all the time, 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.600 like this is the world. We don't really care about that. Yeah, 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.119 I ideal with what happened that you pretty college aside, 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.720 so I'm super used to that that being done. So 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:42.880 the risk is if it jumps into humans because all 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.120 of a sudden, you have a disease that's really hard 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.240 to detect that can live in the environment, that can 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.040 be transferred from not just spinal fluid, but like if 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.639 you eat a lot of infected meat from deer. You know, 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.520 if you eat um, some of the organs you can 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.080 get at a high risk. So so you know, all 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:03.919 of a sudden, you have a large portion of the 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.119 population that could be exposed through direct consumption. But the 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.600 other thing is is prians are really hard to kill. 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.560 I said, they live in soil. They also live on steel, services, 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.160 glass surfaces, every like surface that they've tested like trying 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.160 to kill prions, like you know, putting prions on seeing 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.240 how long they live there hang out there. There was 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.520 some surgical equipment that was infected with the prion gave 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:27.359 someone chronic wasting not crying c j D three years 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.720 after using it out someone who had um c j 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.480 D G. Yeah, and that's like you know, surgical great 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.640 stainless steel stuff so like not supposed to hold things 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:40.040 gets like cleaned, but not like super like not prian 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:41.720 level cleaning because they didn't know about at the time. 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.119 So so there's there's the risk is is is it 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.760 could potentially develop into a human something that impacts human's 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.040 like right now, it hasn't. We do have eight different 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.480 variations of it out there in the landscape. And as 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:58.560 more and more do you are exposed to it, what happens, 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.520 We get more and more variations of it because that's 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.440 just what happens in nature, as we're all becoming familiar 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.359 with with COVID. Yeah, it keeps changing because it's nothing 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.119 has been done to stop it from spreading. Yeah, and 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:13.639 like the only thing you can do to stop it 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.000