Speaker 1: From Transmitter Media. This is Rebel Eaters Club, and I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Virgie Tofar. We are at this very moment
Speaker 1: working on bringing you season three of the show, launching
Speaker 1: May third. While you wait, I wanted to share a
Speaker 1: little snack with you an episode of a podcast I
Speaker 1: love and was a guest on, called Your Magic. It's
Speaker 1: hosted by one of my personal heroes, Michelle T. Rebel Eaters.
Speaker 1: I think you're going to love this episode because Michelle
Speaker 1: and I talk about how diet culture messes with your
Speaker 1: ability to connect to your unique special sauce magic, and
Speaker 1: the academically prove an importance of gossip. Michelle also gives
Speaker 1: me a deep tear jerk or tarot reading about how
Speaker 1: to rely on other people, more of the deep wounds
Speaker 1: we know so well, Rebel Eaters, bonappetite. One of the
Speaker 1: principles of magic that I subscribe to and that I
Speaker 1: think is so powerful is the notion of the interconnectivity
Speaker 1: of all things. The idea that plants and the trees
Speaker 1: and the oceans, and the human body and the galaxy
Speaker 1: and stars that they're all connected. This is your magic.
Speaker 1: I'm Michelle T. Today I'm pulling cards for Virgie Tovar,
Speaker 1: the speaker, teacher, writer, and podcaster whose activism in the
Speaker 1: fat positivity space is intersectional, confrontational, intellectual, and deeply pleasure centric.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about miracles, hunger, and intuition. After that,
Speaker 1: we're visited by Brand Taylor, a queer, which crossroads worker
Speaker 1: and ritual chandler at Magic Hour. They have a spell
Speaker 1: that helps us channel our big emotions into powerful energy
Speaker 1: for change. Stay with us, Okay, I'm going to take
Speaker 1: what might be a contra virtual stance in the WU community.
Speaker 1: It's certainly been a controversial stance in my family, and
Speaker 1: that is forgiveness is overrated. When I was younger, a
Speaker 1: man in my family took some pretty disturbing liberties with
Speaker 1: my person. It created a culture of secrecy and fear
Speaker 1: in my home that festered and really impacted my mental health.
Speaker 1: Pushed to question my reality, my intuition was decimated. A
Speaker 1: lot of my magic work as an adult has been
Speaker 1: about restoring my sixth sense, learning to feel it again
Speaker 1: and to trust it. When this guy was finally busted,
Speaker 1: he did what a lot of busted creeps do. He
Speaker 1: apologized profusely. Was he sorry? Probably? I believe his story
Speaker 1: and experience are actually quite complicated, and that he had
Speaker 1: his own torments. But guess what not my problem. In
Speaker 1: a perfect world, the sorry man would be removed from
Speaker 1: my reality so that I could get support and heal.
Speaker 1: But I think we know that this world is pretty imperfect.
Speaker 1: The thing that really got to me and it actually
Speaker 1: still makes me sting with injustice when I think about it,
Speaker 1: is how pressured I was to forgive him. My anger
Speaker 1: I was told was toxic. It is true that anger
Speaker 1: and resentment are powerful magics and carry a tremendously potent charge,
Speaker 1: and in this way they are fantastic tools to use
Speaker 1: in short bursts for self protection, to push for justice,
Speaker 1: to guard the vulnerable. Make them your main energy, and
Speaker 1: sure it's likely to turn on you, but they have
Speaker 1: their place. When my family insisted I trade my sacred
Speaker 1: anger for trumped up forgiveness, it just made me more angry.
Speaker 1: It would have made everyone else's lives a lot easier
Speaker 1: if I had been forgiving, which in my alcoholic New
Speaker 1: England family is a little synonymous with forgetting. But I
Speaker 1: felt my anger like a furious goddis in my heart,
Speaker 1: demanding that I be made safe, and that my trespasser
Speaker 1: have some consequences. My refusal to forgive him caused me
Speaker 1: to be estranged from my family for quite some time.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just a rebellious aquarian, but that experience has
Speaker 1: made me a little suspicious about the reverence with which
Speaker 1: forgiveness is treated in our culture, In a culture rife
Speaker 1: with systemic injustice, where accountability is tough to come by,
Speaker 1: When I see forgiveness being pushed, it makes me ask, like,
Speaker 1: at whose expense? Who benefits from the forgiveness? Did they
Speaker 1: earn it? Who is granting the forgiveness? Were they coerced?
Speaker 1: I want in my magic toolbox all of the devices
Speaker 1: I might need as I move through this life. There
Speaker 1: is no good or bad magic, no light or dark,
Speaker 1: certainly no black or white. There's only energy, energy that
Speaker 1: we try to use for our highest good. And what
Speaker 1: that might be is sometimes a really tough call. Now,
Speaker 1: let's go talk to Virgie Tovar. Virgie Tovar, are you here?
Speaker 1: I'm here? Oh my god. You know what is magic,
Speaker 1: Virgie Tovar is your voice and your giggle. Your voice
Speaker 1: and your magic voice and your magic giggle. It is
Speaker 1: so amazing to hear you. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being a guest at your magic. Oh my pleasure. Oh man.
Speaker 1: I guess my first opening question for you is what
Speaker 1: is magic to you? I kind of I realize, right,
Speaker 1: like one of the things that I'm fascinated by is physics. Okay,
Speaker 1: So like we have this concept called physics, but other people,
Speaker 1: perhaps throughout time, have called it magic. Yeah, right, like
Speaker 1: we have we have all these things that we have,
Speaker 1: all these sort of sciency like we imagine like a
Speaker 1: white man in a lab coat like talking about this stuff.
Speaker 1: But it's like, you know, I think that not only
Speaker 1: in other parts of the world right now, and certainly
Speaker 1: I think in the West perhaps historically a lot of
Speaker 1: these forces were considered magic. And so in a similar way,
Speaker 1: I do think of physics and magic as connected um
Speaker 1: as in the sense that like, right, like they are
Speaker 1: governing forces, like they are things that the universe and
Speaker 1: humans and plants and treat like everything is governed by
Speaker 1: um and and I kind of think of it as,
Speaker 1: you know, like it shapes the universe. I So I
Speaker 1: think like in that way, I kind of see it
Speaker 1: in the same way that I maybe conceptualize gravity or
Speaker 1: something like that. And I think that like when we
Speaker 1: do magic, when we engage in magic, we actually kind
Speaker 1: of shape the universe. It's it's all around us all
Speaker 1: the time. Um, and so you know, but for me,
Speaker 1: the sort of like gorgeous edge to everything. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: think about the bumblebee. Okay, Like a bumblebee is like
Speaker 1: a tiny little fat bear with little wings and according
Speaker 1: to physics, it's not supposed to be able to fly
Speaker 1: because it's too big, but it does. And so I
Speaker 1: mean and so like that for me, I'm just like
Speaker 1: what like I mean, that tiny, tiny example of magic.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm just like, you know, how can we
Speaker 1: deny that we live in a magical universe if we
Speaker 1: have actual creatures that we that are all around us
Speaker 1: that defy physics, Like what is that thing? And so anyway,
Speaker 1: that's like that's a tiny, tiny example, but like that's
Speaker 1: kind of what magic means to me. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it, and I'm so down with the physics tip.
Speaker 1: I love to think of science as like, um, it's
Speaker 1: trying to it's kind of mapping the mystery, right, it's
Speaker 1: mapping the magic. You know. Yeah, I like I like
Speaker 1: thinking of magic and science sort of intertwined in that
Speaker 1: cool way. And I do think a lot of things
Speaker 1: that are magical are just scientific things that we haven't
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten the science for it right right well,
Speaker 1: and some of it is like literally just words that
Speaker 1: have been put to magical phenomenon and then we call
Speaker 1: it like you know, empirical, and I'm just like, just
Speaker 1: because you can explain it with your words doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that it's not like completely wild. But I just think about,
Speaker 1: like you know, I think about like like a cap,
Speaker 1: like a cassowary or a or wrap, like what the
Speaker 1: fuck is that? What are what are these things? And
Speaker 1: it was like it's like, yeah, you can, you can
Speaker 1: taxonomize it. You can understand that it comes from dinosaurs,
Speaker 1: you can know how it has babies, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean you get it. But it doesn't you know. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I think like some of it is like I agree,
Speaker 1: like it's some of the stuff is just like mystery.
Speaker 1: We don't have language for it, and even science e
Speaker 1: dudes get it um. And then there's stuff where it's
Speaker 1: like even if you can understand and can nap every
Speaker 1: single part of that creature or that phenomenon's reality, I
Speaker 1: mean it doesn't matter, like it's it's wild, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't Yeah, yeah, thank you for invoking the Cassowary.
Speaker 1: I mean that it's a yah yeah, and it's a thing.
Speaker 1: It's like if we if we had located another planet
Speaker 1: with life on it and saw like a cassowary, we
Speaker 1: would be like, yeah, wtf look at this alien feature. Totally. Um,
Speaker 1: what is the spiritual or religious story of your family? Okay,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of like, you know, it's it's it
Speaker 1: immediately actually brings up another side of magic, which is that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was raised by Mexican immigrants, and in
Speaker 1: Mexico as well as a lot of other parts of
Speaker 1: the world, like the magical, the inexplicable, and the observable
Speaker 1: empirical are there's not a binary the way that there
Speaker 1: kind of is in the United States, right, So like,
Speaker 1: for instance, your uncle, like it was totally possible that
Speaker 1: like your uncle could die of the evil eye, and
Speaker 1: that's discussed with the same earnestness as like anything else.
Speaker 1: You know. Yes, the short answer is I was raised Pentecostal,
Speaker 1: which is like the super stifling sect of you know, Christianity,
Speaker 1: and most people are really surprised to hear, like, having
Speaker 1: been raised by Mexican immigrants, that I wasn't raised Catholic.
Speaker 1: And the interesting story there is that so my great
Speaker 1: grandmother was the last practition of Mexican Catholicism, which is
Speaker 1: very focused on the version of Guadalupe and like the
Speaker 1: relationship to and the engagement with like that figure, that
Speaker 1: feminine figure. So the story goes that my great grandmother
Speaker 1: was so and I mean right, like Christianity is both
Speaker 1: you know, it's religious, but it's also cultural in Mexico.
Speaker 1: So you know, I don't know the level of like
Speaker 1: engagement that my great grandmother had with the church, like
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church or whatnot, but she was a devout
Speaker 1: version of Guadalupe worshiper and like and devout Catholic. And
Speaker 1: my grandfather was sort of known for being more of
Speaker 1: like kind of this like you know, guitar playing, a
Speaker 1: little bit of I don't know, like I don't think
Speaker 1: like sort of somebody who was like not a part
Speaker 1: of the church maybe and maybe what we'd call an agnostic.
Speaker 1: I just kind of think it's like it's almost not
Speaker 1: quite a philanderer, but somebody who's a little bit like
Speaker 1: associated with like, oh, that person isn't a churchgoing person,
Speaker 1: which has a little bit of a disparaging tone to it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, he was kind of known for being like
Speaker 1: a musician, very handsome. And then there was this traveling
Speaker 1: Christian dude who was going all throughout Mexico and performing miracles.
Speaker 1: So the story goes that my great grandfather is like,
Speaker 1: you know, off playing guitar like an amazing you know whatever,
Speaker 1: in like a bar or somewhere, and yes, and my
Speaker 1: great grandmother is like devoutly worshiping, you know the version.
Speaker 1: And then her brother, my great great uncle, I don't
Speaker 1: even know. Her brother had lost his vision and it
Speaker 1: was like he was born sighted and then he was
Speaker 1: slowly using his vision and he was beginning to sort
Speaker 1: of get into like he wasn't It wasn't a known
Speaker 1: fact yet, but there were sort of suspicions about it
Speaker 1: because he had started to change a little bit of
Speaker 1: his behavior. And then the track leveler comes through their
Speaker 1: town of like Monthee, like North Mexico, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I will heal anyone who has an affliction, and my
Speaker 1: great grandmother says, you know, heal my brother's blindness, and
Speaker 1: he does. And then in that moment, my great grandfather
Speaker 1: is there and he witnesses this and he falls to
Speaker 1: his knees and says, I am dedicating my life to
Speaker 1: whatever religion you practice. And then he became a proselytizing
Speaker 1: Pentecostal pastor who traveled all over Mexico and did like
Speaker 1: revivals and you know, and like was in Texas and
Speaker 1: it was just like Wilder and so he became this
Speaker 1: like super religious man. And so I was raised by
Speaker 1: his youngest daughter, my grandmother, and so you know, part
Speaker 1: of part of like you know, like his specter was
Speaker 1: always there because she was so proud of his success,
Speaker 1: like he started so many churches, and she sort of
Speaker 1: and there's all these documents of like, you know, these
Speaker 1: revivals that he would lead and these and he had
Speaker 1: a newsletter that he wrote. Um, and so it's just
Speaker 1: and he like you know, put aside everything, like put
Speaker 1: aside the guitar. Put it. Well, that's that's not totally fair.
Speaker 1: He began to play in church, like he no longer
Speaker 1: drank and all these kinds of things, right, and um.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of the background of the of my
Speaker 1: religious you know how my family converted from Catholicism, and
Speaker 1: I'm always I always think about that moment of like
Speaker 1: what was it like for my great grandmother to sort
Speaker 1: of be told like, guess what this like feminine focused
Speaker 1: religious practice you have? It's like gone now and now
Speaker 1: we're gonna like worship this dude. Maybe it wasn't a
Speaker 1: big deal for her, but something in my life, in
Speaker 1: my you know, epigenetic knowledge or something is like she
Speaker 1: probably experienced as a massive betrayal. Like I mean, I
Speaker 1: just can't imagine like being a woman in like the
Speaker 1: nineteen tens nineteen twenties allowed to have this this like
Speaker 1: this like sort of like goddess worship almost yeah, and
Speaker 1: like how inclining that must have been, even in like
Speaker 1: maybe a subconscious way. And then to have your husband,
Speaker 1: who you can't really defy, tell you that you don't
Speaker 1: get to do that anymore, and now your job is
Speaker 1: to be like essentially like a servant to a bunch
Speaker 1: of people and this God that you don't really know.
Speaker 1: Like very early on, by the time I was like
Speaker 1: ten or eleven, I began to question the morals of
Speaker 1: what I was being taught. It's just making me think
Speaker 1: of like how like an organized religions tend to be
Speaker 1: so patriarchal and oppressive, and then it makes me think
Speaker 1: of like magic and witchcraft and that those kind of
Speaker 1: traditions as being like disorganized religion like this, like feminist
Speaker 1: disorganized religion, you know, where it's like more chaotic and individualistic,
Speaker 1: you know, essentially. Um, I would say any practice that
Speaker 1: connects um feminine people, and I think, you know, all
Speaker 1: people to a certain extent, but I think because of
Speaker 1: the history of misogyny and sexism, particularly feminine people with
Speaker 1: their intuition, is a is a magical practice. And I
Speaker 1: see things like, you know, reflective things, self reflective things
Speaker 1: like tarot, like journaling, you know, like processing like talking shit. Um,
Speaker 1: I see these like I see these as magical processes.
Speaker 1: So are you telling me that gossip is part of
Speaker 1: your spiritual practice? Yes, I mean they. I mean like
Speaker 1: I feel like you and I might have talked about
Speaker 1: this at one point, but there's actual research on, like
Speaker 1: literally like academics doing research on the social social biology
Speaker 1: and the social role of gossip among marginalized people and
Speaker 1: how it's a way of like sharing information in an
Speaker 1: underground sort of information tunnel and getting affirmation about like
Speaker 1: your suspicions about certain people and uh, and how it's
Speaker 1: really only wasps who don't gossip is what the research
Speaker 1: kind of in conclusion, and so you know, as somebody
Speaker 1: who's not a wasp, Like, of course that's part of
Speaker 1: my part of my magical practice. I love it. I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if you can elaborate on how diet culture impacts magic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean diet culture like viciously steals people's magic, um, right,
Speaker 1: Like I think, you know, one of the first things
Speaker 1: that magic, one of the principles of magic that I
Speaker 1: subscribe to and that I think is so powerful, is
Speaker 1: the notion of the interconnectivity of all things, you know,
Speaker 1: the idea that like you know that the plants and
Speaker 1: the trees, and the oceans, and the human body and
Speaker 1: the galaxy and stars, um, that they're all connected, that
Speaker 1: there is no difference, that we're all made of the
Speaker 1: same thing, which again is physics um. But like also
Speaker 1: magic um. But you know, like, and I think that
Speaker 1: diet culture really comes from a very colonialist, patriarchal tradition,
Speaker 1: which is one of hierarchy, which is absolutely it's about
Speaker 1: cutting off the interconnectivity of all things, and it's about
Speaker 1: saying it's about positioning human and particularly masculine dominion over
Speaker 1: all things, like over the natural world. And diet culture
Speaker 1: really comes from from that, from that ideology, right, and
Speaker 1: the way that it shows up is the notion of
Speaker 1: mind over matter. So one of the first things that um,
Speaker 1: that diet culture does that it undercuts your ability to
Speaker 1: have a beautiful and generative and pleasure driven relationship to
Speaker 1: hunger and to eating, which are which are not only
Speaker 1: like necessary for survival, but are literally biologically designed to
Speaker 1: create pleasure. Um. And so diet culture goes in and says, nope,
Speaker 1: that process has to be regulated, has to be controlled,
Speaker 1: and has to be guilt written and write like the
Speaker 1: same in the same way that it's the same methodology
Speaker 1: around sexuality, right, UM, Like it's an idea that you have,
Speaker 1: the idea that you have to control sexuality um. And
Speaker 1: this thing that was biologically designed to help you connect
Speaker 1: to others and to connect to yourself and to connect
Speaker 1: to like, you know, your magic um is something that
Speaker 1: has to be regulated and controlled and specifically um. You know.
Speaker 1: I think that, Uh, there's this really explicit connection to
Speaker 1: racism in that in the sense that like, right, the
Speaker 1: whole reason that mind over matter I think became so
Speaker 1: important and is still so important in our culture is
Speaker 1: because of the idea that m that like white men
Speaker 1: deserve to take over and inherit the earth because they
Speaker 1: have that willpower, and that it is like, you know,
Speaker 1: brown people and black people who don't have that more
Speaker 1: animal relationship to the body and to the to earth,
Speaker 1: and therefore you know, they need to be controlled, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of times, right, like that that connection
Speaker 1: show like right, So diet culture is already always about
Speaker 1: a practice of racism, and it's already always about a
Speaker 1: practice of like having a colonial relationship to the body.
Speaker 1: Diet culture is like a master gas lighter um in
Speaker 1: the sense that, like, you know, one of the first
Speaker 1: things that people are taught or on diet culture is like,
Speaker 1: you cannot trust your own hunger, which is which essentially
Speaker 1: is saying you cannot trust your body, You cannot trust
Speaker 1: your instincts. You always have to govern those things. And
Speaker 1: and sort of like that that false separation from the
Speaker 1: natural world, including our own animal bodies, us like a
Speaker 1: really fast way to be entirely disconnected from yourself. I
Speaker 1: gotta tuck a tarot cards here, Virgie. Do you want
Speaker 1: me to pull some cards for you? Yes, I would
Speaker 1: love that. What would you like to what should we
Speaker 1: pull about? I doubt, Like, I mean, my first thought was, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm kind I am kind of curious about
Speaker 1: like one transition that I'm in right now that's really terrifying,
Speaker 1: and really mostly it's just terrifying right now, but I'm
Speaker 1: kind of aware that it's like leaning towards generative, but
Speaker 1: it's one of finally accepting that, you know, don't have
Speaker 1: to fight battles alone. And I mean literally, like three
Speaker 1: days ago, I wrote in my Google calendar, I was
Speaker 1: like day that I welcomed in the notion that I
Speaker 1: need other people. Oh that's beautiful, and so I just
Speaker 1: because I mean, like I mean, I've always known it,
Speaker 1: but it's always been a very reluctant, not even acceptance.
Speaker 1: It's almost like sort of like a reluctant, like you know,
Speaker 1: it would be rude to believe that I that I like,
Speaker 1: got here by myself, and I refused to be that person.
Speaker 1: But also like, my god, I hate relying on other
Speaker 1: people for literally anything, and so that transition into this,
Speaker 1: so I don't I don't know, Like that's kind of
Speaker 1: like my headspace is like you know what, Like maybe
Speaker 1: the question would be like what are the tools I need? What? Um? Like,
Speaker 1: what what is this problem? Where is this process heading?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like that's is that enough? But I
Speaker 1: do want to ask you, um, what where do you
Speaker 1: think the um the apprehension to rely on other folks,
Speaker 1: Like where does that come from? Have you pinpointed that
Speaker 1: in yourself? Oh? Yeah, I mean I'm I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm a hugely parentified like I was parentified in childhood. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm a recovering adult child you know of alcoholic, dysfunctional
Speaker 1: family people, and so yeah, like I'm just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to be my own mom when I was
Speaker 1: like five. It comes from that and the sense of
Speaker 1: like that that everything feels really high stakes, like one
Speaker 1: hundred percent of the time, because it's like if I
Speaker 1: don't do the thing, and I like me personally, I
Speaker 1: don't take care of it, the world's gonna fall apart,
Speaker 1: you know, I do? I do. That's a really classic
Speaker 1: like way that when when kids are given way too
Speaker 1: much responsibility and families like that's just that's a classic
Speaker 1: way that you turn out as an adult. I'm going
Speaker 1: to pick some cards and just to see, like what
Speaker 1: does this path look like as you continue on it?
Speaker 1: And then I'm going to pick cards from an oracle
Speaker 1: deck I have that I really love that will offer
Speaker 1: sort of suggestions of like what different kind of energies
Speaker 1: and practices can support you. Okay, So right now I'm
Speaker 1: shuffling and I'm just asking the deck. All right, So,
Speaker 1: oh wow, virgie, So your first card that I pulled
Speaker 1: for you is the Chariot, which is who really great.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull all three and then get a little
Speaker 1: deeper into each of them. So the first card is
Speaker 1: the Chariot, Oh my god. The second card is the
Speaker 1: Six of Cups, which in this deck is titled Pleasure okay, yes,
Speaker 1: and it's Son in Scorpio. And then your final card
Speaker 1: is the Hermit. This is beautiful. This is so beautiful.
Speaker 1: So the Chariot is so interesting because it's a totally
Speaker 1: positive card, right, and it's your victory is assured when
Speaker 1: you get the Chariot card. But it's full title is
Speaker 1: the Chariot of War, so it is talking about a fight,
Speaker 1: like you're fighting against something, right, And it's like what
Speaker 1: you're fighting for right now is like you're pleasure, like
Speaker 1: you're because it is a pleasure. It's an emotional pleasure
Speaker 1: when you allow yourself to be vulnerable, when you allow
Speaker 1: yourself to like you know, Barber set it, people who
Speaker 1: need people, they're the luckiest people on earth, right. So,
Speaker 1: and the chariot is a it's cancer and um as
Speaker 1: an it's an emotional water sign. So but it's you know,
Speaker 1: the charioteer in the card is wearing this golden armor
Speaker 1: and cancers are the crab, so you know, they are
Speaker 1: this little creasure that is so tender that it comes
Speaker 1: with this shell. So it's very interesting. It's like this
Speaker 1: is a card that's a lot about feeling like you
Speaker 1: need to be self protective, but it's also about like
Speaker 1: in general, when the when the chariot car comes up,
Speaker 1: it's like you're on a journey and you're fighting for
Speaker 1: something and it might be a little bit of a
Speaker 1: bumpy ride, but you are so committed you're holding on
Speaker 1: like the crab does. And and that's and that's your
Speaker 1: and that's your Taurus. You know, that's your Taurus nature.
Speaker 1: I get that you're not stubborn about like intellectual areas.
Speaker 1: You know, you're really open to points of view. But
Speaker 1: I do think that that stubbornness might come through for
Speaker 1: you in like your dedication to work and to not
Speaker 1: being afraid of hard work. You know, in this deck,
Speaker 1: the top deck, the charioteers also holding what is supposed
Speaker 1: to be an amethyst bowl full of blood. It's a
Speaker 1: little goth for you there, but it's about sacrifice. So
Speaker 1: it's like you're willing to make a sacrifice to get
Speaker 1: to this higher ground. And that higher ground is a
Speaker 1: place of pleasure, you know, where you're able to access
Speaker 1: like a deeper emotional It's it's Sun and Scorpio. Scorpios
Speaker 1: are very deep, right, Their emotions run deep, and their
Speaker 1: connections to other people run really deep. And that the
Speaker 1: fact that the card is called pleasure. It's like this
Speaker 1: is very away from that Queen of Swords card, which
Speaker 1: is very icy and intellectual. You know, you're getting these
Speaker 1: warm emotional cards. And then you got the Hermit, which
Speaker 1: is really interesting, and I think the Hermit is coming
Speaker 1: up because you know, the Hermit is the character who
Speaker 1: has to do some really intense work on themselves and
Speaker 1: they know that it's work that only they can do
Speaker 1: and they've got to take the space to do it,
Speaker 1: you know, and they've got to take like the alone
Speaker 1: time and they've got to do the work. And it's
Speaker 1: an Earth sign, it's Virgo, and so it's about giving
Speaker 1: yourself the structure to kind of do that work. And
Speaker 1: you know, the hermit goes away because he doesn't want
Speaker 1: other people's influences. He wants to really see out what
Speaker 1: is his core truth underneath it all. It's a really
Speaker 1: beautiful card. It's very and you know, the rendering of
Speaker 1: it in this deck, there's a It's also about fearlessness.
Speaker 1: He has the three headed hound of Hell sort of
Speaker 1: like you know, jumping on his leg and he's just
Speaker 1: ignoring it. He's like ignoring he you know, he's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I get it. It's scary, but you know, like this
Speaker 1: is my path and I'm really dedicated to it. And
Speaker 1: it's about he's holding a lantern and the hermit in
Speaker 1: all Taro, I think it's always holding a lantern and
Speaker 1: it's just about finding your inner light, you know. And
Speaker 1: so this is beautiful. I love this path for you.
Speaker 1: I'm now going to pick out if you'd like this
Speaker 1: oracle deck and it's called vessel. So I'm gonna just shuffle,
Speaker 1: just asking. Okay, we see that Virgie is on this journey,
Speaker 1: she's in the chariot, she's headed toward pleasure. She might
Speaker 1: have to stop off at a roadside cave every now
Speaker 1: and then and let her hermit, let her hermit out.
Speaker 1: Your first card that you got is called Trust, and
Speaker 1: it's this picture of this, yeah, of this like feminine
Speaker 1: person with her head back and her eyes closed and
Speaker 1: her long hair is cascading, and there's like a green
Speaker 1: hand with a heart on the palm and a red
Speaker 1: hand with the heart on the palm. It's very like notebook,
Speaker 1: dutily looking, but also like mystical. And your second one
Speaker 1: is begin the car and it is an eight pointed
Speaker 1: starve that's red with like bursts coming out of it,
Speaker 1: like like rays of light, and also hearts and diamonds.
Speaker 1: It's really explosive looking. And then you have forgiven right
Speaker 1: stuff here, man, I know. So it's like, wow, here
Speaker 1: we go trust, you know, And so much of the
Speaker 1: work that you do in the world is getting people
Speaker 1: to trust their intuition again. And it's like you practicing
Speaker 1: that yourself, you know, and trusting your path that you're
Speaker 1: on and trusting the decisions that you've had to make,
Speaker 1: and then begin like every day. It just makes me think,
Speaker 1: how like every day we begin again, right, we begin
Speaker 1: our day and new and so like every day like
Speaker 1: beginning this practice over again, right, even though it's a
Speaker 1: path that you've been on for a while, just to
Speaker 1: know that it's like it's going to manifest in a
Speaker 1: new way every day, Like new aspects of it will
Speaker 1: manifest itself, New aspects of your own interior will reveal itself.
Speaker 1: So the sense of always beginning, but in a really
Speaker 1: positive way, right, And then forgive. I'm sorry you got
Speaker 1: the forgiveness card. I think forgiveness is highly overrated in
Speaker 1: the h and the spiritual community. Frankly, I think we
Speaker 1: need to make some more room for holy resentment. But
Speaker 1: you know there, yes, Virgie as I just think everything
Speaker 1: has a time and a place, and you can't force
Speaker 1: forgive forgiveness right well, and Michelle might be like forgiving myself,
Speaker 1: I mean like we can we can claim that process
Speaker 1: or like when you when you when you told me
Speaker 1: that it was forgive, my brain was immediately like, you know,
Speaker 1: there's obviously the traditional understanding of like forgiving the people
Speaker 1: who wronged you, but it's also like it can be
Speaker 1: forgiving ourselves. It can be like, you know, just because
Speaker 1: I forgive the wrong the wrong door, it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: I have to do anything else, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: can just make that gift for myself. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be about doing anything in the physical world with them,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, you can forgive somebody and that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean you want to like be their bestie afterwards. You
Speaker 1: can just sort of acknowledge, Yeah, you can just acknowledge
Speaker 1: like it's okay, Like I understand complicated forces, you know,
Speaker 1: worked together to make this terrible situation happen maybe for
Speaker 1: both of us, and I release I'm releasing myself from
Speaker 1: it totally hoof Yeah, seriously. And you know something, and
Speaker 1: what's really interesting is I picked three cards from each deck,
Speaker 1: and so underneath the chariot is trust, and I feel
Speaker 1: like I feel like they're having a little bit of
Speaker 1: a relationship. So it's like trusting your journey, trusting trusting
Speaker 1: what you're the direction that you're heading in, trusting the
Speaker 1: gusto that you're sort of applying to this path, and
Speaker 1: then underneath pleasure is begin right, so begin a deeper
Speaker 1: you know, exploration of pleasure, a deeper um, you know,
Speaker 1: reverence of pleasure. And then underneath the hermit is forgive.
Speaker 1: So it is this sort of like like going off
Speaker 1: and it's very internal. It's an internal process where you
Speaker 1: need your internal light to guide you and know that
Speaker 1: it's like it's coming purely from you, and it's not
Speaker 1: a pressure from like the culture, because I feel like
Speaker 1: the culture puts a lot of pressure of forgiveness as
Speaker 1: a virtue and you know, and I just very suspicious
Speaker 1: of as a you know, I just feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like let's deconstruct the power dynamics and who that benefits.
Speaker 1: But you know, it is also true that resentment can
Speaker 1: harm us internally. So I love this. I love this
Speaker 1: for you. It's really deep and it's really beautiful. Oh
Speaker 1: I've been like literally tearing up and trying like I
Speaker 1: just you know, like the whole time. So it's feel
Speaker 1: it feel like it really resonated really deeply. So thank you,
Speaker 1: hello listeners. This is brand and I do magical work
Speaker 1: under the name Magic Hour, and this is a spell
Speaker 1: to create space for the dark. Big, powerful emotions can
Speaker 1: push us into a new direction. They are a catalyst
Speaker 1: for transformation. They help raise our heart rate, spark our passions,
Speaker 1: and fuel our voice for change, and this change leads
Speaker 1: to growth. Growth can ignite revolution, and revolution can bring
Speaker 1: much needed justice. For inspiration, envision those revolutionary people who
Speaker 1: allow their big emotions to be expressed and felt deeply,
Speaker 1: those who channel it through activism and through their art. Now,
Speaker 1: I believe all emotions are on a continuum, and I
Speaker 1: like to think of this continuum as a rainbow. Feelings
Speaker 1: like happiness, joy, and excitement are part of the day rainbow,
Speaker 1: and feelings like rage, anger, and grief are part of
Speaker 1: the night rainbow. All emotions are valid and exist here
Speaker 1: in a non judgment zone. Both sides of the rainbow
Speaker 1: meet at the crossroads of the earth to form a
Speaker 1: full and beautiful circle. Now, to magically work with the darkness,
Speaker 1: we need to space for it. For this spell, We're
Speaker 1: going to make an altar space to honor the dark
Speaker 1: and to create a place to express the emotions of
Speaker 1: the night rainbow. You will need an offering for the dark,
Speaker 1: goddess or deity that you work with today, I'm using
Speaker 1: black hello wore flowers from my garden, a pen and paper,
Speaker 1: a bowl of salt water, a dark colored rock or
Speaker 1: two I'm using a black tourmaline and a gray river rock.
Speaker 1: A black or dark colored candle holding the intention of
Speaker 1: honoring the darkness. Arrange the items on your altar, one
Speaker 1: at a time. As you place the offering for the
Speaker 1: dark goddess, imagine the grand doorway to spirit easily opening
Speaker 1: for you. As you place the salty cauldron, think or
Speaker 1: say the words, my grief and fear is sacred. As
Speaker 1: you place the strong rocks, think or say the words,
Speaker 1: my disgust and fatigue is sacred. As you place and
Speaker 1: light the candle of change, think or say the words,
Speaker 1: my anger and rage is sacred. Lastly, you're going to
Speaker 1: charge the altar with a poem by Wendell Berry. Write
Speaker 1: this poem on a piece of paper and place it
Speaker 1: directly on your altar. Repeat these words whenever you want
Speaker 1: to magically connect with the dark places. To go in
Speaker 1: the dark with a light is to know the light.
Speaker 1: To know the dark. Go dark, go without sight and
Speaker 1: find that the dark too blooms and sings and is
Speaker 1: traveled by dark feet and dark wings. Find yourself using
Speaker 1: this altar wherever you need a space to express your
Speaker 1: shadow places and big emotions. Cry, scream, right or sing.
Speaker 1: Spirit can handle it for here. Your magic honors the
Speaker 1: complexities of the powerful dark. Thank you, Brand Taylor. I
Speaker 1: love that so much. This whole concept of the day
Speaker 1: rainbow and the night rainbow such a simple and strong
Speaker 1: way to think about the polarities of our emotions and
Speaker 1: honor them. If you want more of Brand's magic wisdom
Speaker 1: in your life, please check out Magic Hour. They're enchanted
Speaker 1: Candle Company. They're really special. Thanks for tuning into your magic.
Speaker 1: Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram at
Speaker 1: This is Your Magic. You can subscribe right here on Spotify.
Speaker 1: Just do what you have to do so you don't
Speaker 1: miss an episode, and sign up for our newsletter at
Speaker 1: this is Your Magic dot Com and get more musings
Speaker 1: from our team of spiritual seekers. Also, you can email
Speaker 1: us at hello if this is your Magic dot Com,
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. This episode was
Speaker 1: produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Raven Yamamoto.
Speaker 1: We got production support from Veronica A. Guard, Christine Marr
Speaker 1: and Vera Blossom. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself
Speaker 1: and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbro.
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for a conversation with poet Morgan Parker.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, Gosh. I hope you enjoyed that conversation
Speaker 1: as much as I did listening back. It's so clear
Speaker 1: that one it's not only dudes in lab codes who
Speaker 1: can understand life's mysteries. Two, Cassowaries our excellent proof that
Speaker 1: just because something has a name doesn't mean it's not
Speaker 1: totally out of this world. And three, any practice you love,
Speaker 1: from journaling to gossiping, can help you reconnect to your magic,
Speaker 1: intuition and desire. You can check out more episodes of
Speaker 1: Your Magic Only on Spotify, or you can find the
Speaker 1: crew on Twitter and Instagram at this is Your Magic
Speaker 1: and stay tuned for a full season three of Rebel
Speaker 1: Eaters Club will be dropping new episodes starting May third,