1
00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,840
Speaker 1: Miss Spelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio podcast.

2
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:19,800
Speaker 2: Hi miss Hi. So do we just start talking or

3
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 2: are you going to start talking? Oh? Okay, we're just

4
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 2: friends here talking. Love it.

5
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm misspelling, you're misunderstood. You know it makes.

6
00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 2: Sense, that's right, that's right. I love the name. Thank you,

7
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm really honored to uh that you guys

8
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,000
Speaker 2: reached out to me. So thank you.

9
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, well thank you for doing this. And gosh,

10
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like a first date. I feel

11
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 1: like I'm supposed to warm you up, like leave me

12
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:49,599
Speaker 1: up before I jump in.

13
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,199
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, well, no, you don't have to. I'm

14
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 2: I feel like, you know because you have been on

15
00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,720
Speaker 2: TV for so long. I feel like I know you right,

16
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 2: and I followed your story and I'm someone that I

17
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:03,880
Speaker 2: don't know if you followed a little bit of mine

18
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 2: or whatever, but I feel like you probably know me

19
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:07,839
Speaker 2: a little bit already, and I know.

20
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 1: I know the public story right about you, which everyone

21
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: knows public stories about me. I take all of that

22
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:21,800
Speaker 1: with a grain of salt, right, But yes, but you

23
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:22,640
Speaker 1: look beautiful.

24
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 2: Thank you? So do you? Thank you? Where are you?

25
00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 2: I'm in La. Where are you. I'm in Palm Beach, Florida.

26
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:33,800
Speaker 2: Oh I was.

27
00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,640
Speaker 1: I was in Florida last year in the Everglades.

28
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,600
Speaker 2: Oh okay, you know, I've never been to the Everglades.

29
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,400
Speaker 2: I just remember the flight that went down in the Everglades.

30
00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 2: So I always think of those people that died in

31
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,559
Speaker 2: the plane crash. Do you know what I'm talking about? Nope?

32
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: And I'm terrified of flying and I'm glad I knew

33
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,080
Speaker 1: nothing about that before.

34
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Well, that's what I think of when I

35
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,560
Speaker 2: think of the Everglades, because they all went down, and

36
00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,280
Speaker 2: they I don't think I they don't think they ever

37
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 2: found the plane and it went straight down and they

38
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 2: were all well obviously they were dead, but probably by alligators.

39
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:12,400
Speaker 2: But I digress. Florida is beautiful. Palm Beaches is beautiful. Yes, yes,

40
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 2: so many people moved here. I moved here from New

41
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,840
Speaker 2: York City a couple of years ago, and I'm so

42
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:19,800
Speaker 2: happy that I did. I was. I felt like I

43
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 2: was stuck in New York, you know, like listen, I

44
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,519
Speaker 2: was born in Alaska. I moved to New York City

45
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,640
Speaker 2: when I was five, and I've lived there essentially forever.

46
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,480
Speaker 2: With the exception of going to college and a couple

47
00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 2: stints here and there when I lived in LA But

48
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,200
Speaker 2: you know, I really felt like I didn't know what

49
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 2: I was doing with myself, and I couldn't meet anyone,

50
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,720
Speaker 2: and I was struggling with my ex husband and figuring

51
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 2: out how a co parent with my daughter. It was

52
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 2: always a struggle, and I just didn't feel like I

53
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 2: had a village there, right, And everyone in New York

54
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,520
Speaker 2: City lives in apartments, so they're all essentially very alone.

55
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 2: I don't know how to describe it more than that,

56
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,560
Speaker 2: but I feel like the only you have this sense

57
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 2: of coming that everyone is essentially alone, because you could

58
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 2: look at your apartment and see that everyone is just

59
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,080
Speaker 2: watching TV or on a computer and not feel so

60
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,800
Speaker 2: bad about it. But I was so happy when I

61
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,360
Speaker 2: finally said, you know what, I'm done with this. I

62
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 2: have to start over, and I moved to Florida. I

63
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 2: started my podcast. I met a guy who I'm now

64
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:23,079
Speaker 2: engaged to say congratulations. See, my daughter is like thriving

65
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,680
Speaker 2: at school. She's like the captain of her volleyball team,

66
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,839
Speaker 2: and so it's it's really been amazing. I just I'm

67
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:30,960
Speaker 2: really happy that I did it.

68
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 1: Wow, maybe I need to move my kids to Florida.

69
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, sometimes you know what I mean, You've

70
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,760
Speaker 2: got to get uncomfortable and the scariest part is just

71
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,480
Speaker 2: doing something different and new. But sometimes when you make

72
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,920
Speaker 2: that change, you're like forced to do things differently. And

73
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:49,320
Speaker 2: it really it did work for me.

74
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,760
Speaker 1: Make yourself uncomfort I mean, you've been through a gazillion uncomfortable,

75
00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 1: unfortunate things. What do you feel like was keeping you stuff? Energetically?

76
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:03,160
Speaker 1: It's not just New York.

77
00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, I agree, I think that energetically. I listen,

78
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,280
Speaker 2: I have dealt with a bunch of shame, I think,

79
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 2: and I think that really is the underlying feeling for

80
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 2: me that I felt stuck about. You know, after I've

81
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 2: been in a couple very public events in life, one being,

82
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,280
Speaker 2: you know, when I was twenty six, my fiance was

83
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,919
Speaker 2: killed in the World Trade Center and my face was

84
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 2: on the cover of every single newspaper in a shot

85
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 2: of me looking for him. And then ten years later

86
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 2: I was involved in one of the biggest international sex

87
00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,800
Speaker 2: scandals of our time, I guess you would say. And

88
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,560
Speaker 2: so I was on the cover of a lot of

89
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,200
Speaker 2: newspapers and I felt like everyone thought they knew me,

90
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,480
Speaker 2: And I wonder if you understand this feeling, But like

91
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,800
Speaker 2: I so crave to be known, Like I crave for

92
00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,520
Speaker 2: someone to know what I like to drink, why I

93
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,920
Speaker 2: get upset, what makes me happy? Be those things authentically?

94
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 2: Know you, yeah, authentically, And no one knew me, like

95
00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,040
Speaker 2: everyone acted like they knew everything about me, and yet

96
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:13,400
Speaker 2: I never felt more alone or misunderstood, and that very

97
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 2: much stuck with me. And I felt stuck because of it,

98
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,480
Speaker 2: and so I would try to change the narrative by

99
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,920
Speaker 2: doing other things. Because I was Rachel. You could tell

100
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,320
Speaker 2: Comma Tiger Wood's mistress, Rachel. You could tell Comma whatever

101
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,039
Speaker 2: someone wanted to fill in. And it was really hard

102
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 2: for me because I was I was a person before,

103
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 2: I'm a person after, and that, quite frankly, is the

104
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 2: most it's the least interesting thing about my life. And

105
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 2: so you know, I was trying to fill in that

106
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,920
Speaker 2: Comma with other things. I did some reality TV stuff,

107
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,840
Speaker 2: you know, I opened up a store which won all

108
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,880
Speaker 2: these awards, but people would come in and see my

109
00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:58,920
Speaker 2: name on the business car and be like, oh my god,

110
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 2: you have the same name as that girl who was

111
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and I'm like, I am that girl,

112
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 2: you know, and then it was like this awkward. So

113
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 2: it was like I kept trying to get away from something.

114
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 2: But I with listen, health and decades of time, I realized,

115
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,840
Speaker 2: you know, you can't run away from your past, but

116
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,920
Speaker 2: you also don't have to be defined by it. And

117
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:23,919
Speaker 2: you know, I had to learn how to live in

118
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 2: the moment and just be like, Okay, here's something that

119
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,240
Speaker 2: happened in my life, but it doesn't make me who

120
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:39,480
Speaker 2: I am. And I spent a lot of time feeling embarrassed, shameful, scared,

121
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,479
Speaker 2: not worthy, and I didn't know how to get out

122
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 2: of that. And I think just being stuck there in

123
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 2: New York is something that you know, I felt like

124
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 2: I had to do because I didn't nowhere else to

125
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 2: go and I didn't know what to try. Plus I

126
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,200
Speaker 2: had a daughter, and as you know, that can make

127
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 2: it really hard to just up and leave because I

128
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 2: had a parenting agreement and I couldn't do it, so

129
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,039
Speaker 2: I had to go through the courts and all that.

130
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 2: But anyways, you know, that's why I think I felt stuck.

131
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 1: When you talk about how people kind of what you're

132
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,160
Speaker 1: affiliated with what.

133
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 2: You're quote unquote known for in the public.

134
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious, why do you refer to it as one

135
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 1: of the biggest sex scandals?

136
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 2: I was.

137
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 1: I was surprised to hear you refer to as a

138
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 1: sex scandal.

139
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 2: Really, what would you refer to it as relationship? Well,

140
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:40,520
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about my mind part of it. I'm

141
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 2: talking about in the world of scandals. I think it's

142
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 2: known as one of the biggest sex scandals because.

143
00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,160
Speaker 1: In public affairs what it mean I guess.

144
00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 2: So, but he was he was involved with, you know,

145
00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,200
Speaker 2: twenty five different people that eventually came out and same

146
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,320
Speaker 2: thing with like the Monica Lewinsky, even though it was

147
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,240
Speaker 2: one or two or three whatever Clinton had, I don't know.

148
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,080
Speaker 2: I would have just called it sex scandal because it

149
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 2: was so much. I wouldn't call it a relationship scandal.

150
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,240
Speaker 2: I mean with me, I would not call it a

151
00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 2: sex scandal. But I'm just making a general reference of.

152
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,440
Speaker 1: What what would you refer to it as well?

153
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 2: A sex scandal because that's what it was within the world,

154
00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,760
Speaker 2: Within my life, it was a mistake. It was something

155
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 2: that I did that was that I feel terrible about that.

156
00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,400
Speaker 2: I listen. It made me very clear about boundaries. I

157
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,320
Speaker 2: don't date married men. I will tell you something. I've

158
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,280
Speaker 2: never cheated on anyone in my life, Like it's just

159
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 2: not who I am. But I've definitely been the other woman.

160
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 2: And I'm not making any of that right at all.

161
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 2: I'm just saying I am a relationship person. I don't

162
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,040
Speaker 2: have one night stands. I definitely am about connecting with someone.

163
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 2: And yes, and I went through something in the past

164
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 2: where I, I guess I chose to connect with people

165
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,559
Speaker 2: who are unavailable. I mean, it wasn't the first person

166
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,560
Speaker 2: I had been with who who was not emotionally available

167
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,400
Speaker 2: or you know, legally available. I guess because they were married.

168
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,880
Speaker 2: And I feel terrible about it, but not because the

169
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 2: world has a problem with it, but because of the

170
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 2: woman that was hurt. So at this point, like I

171
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 2: only feel like I've only ever owed an apology to

172
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 2: one other person, you know, so, but at the end

173
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,640
Speaker 2: of the day, I feel like it was one other person. Yeah,

174
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 2: to one other person, to to the woman involved.

175
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:48,560
Speaker 1: Understood, And do you feel like I guess I'm trying

176
00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 1: to connect with you because I when I met my

177
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,040
Speaker 1: soon to be ex husband, we were both married.

178
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,880
Speaker 2: Oh right, I forgot. Yeah, so.

179
00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,800
Speaker 1: I've been in that seat before and ours worked out

180
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 1: until it didn't work out, which is now people always

181
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,320
Speaker 1: say to me, oh, that's karma. You know you were

182
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 1: with the married man and like then he cheated on

183
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:17,200
Speaker 1: you at some point because my husband there was infidelity scandal.

184
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:23,079
Speaker 1: I guess, and yeah, do you do you believe in

185
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:24,640
Speaker 1: karma when it comes to that stuff?

186
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 2: I mean karma, that's a whole other topic. I think.

187
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,760
Speaker 2: Do I believe in karma? I believe that people don't change.

188
00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 2: I believe that there are patterns that people fall into.

189
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,520
Speaker 2: But I think if they do the work and understand

190
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,600
Speaker 2: why they have those patterns, they're able to control them.

191
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,640
Speaker 2: You know. So karma. Do I think something bad is

192
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 2: going to happen to someone because they did something like

193
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,080
Speaker 2: I made a mistake. Do I think I deserve like

194
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,440
Speaker 2: terrible karma because of it? No? Do I think Tiger

195
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,120
Speaker 2: deserves terrible karma because he made the choices he made? No?

196
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,080
Speaker 2: I think we learned what lessons from it. Do I

197
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 2: think because you were a mistress? I guess at one point,

198
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,080
Speaker 2: does that mean eventually your husband that you took away

199
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,319
Speaker 2: from someone else should cheat on you and you should

200
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 2: feel the same way. No, I don't think that that

201
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,000
Speaker 2: is how it should work, and I don't believe that

202
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,719
Speaker 2: that's how it does work. But I do think that

203
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 2: things can come full circle because of lessons. So whether

204
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,640
Speaker 2: or not your ex or soon to be X whatever

205
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,679
Speaker 2: he is now, came to learn that. Listen, I've gotten

206
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 2: away with it in the past. People have chosen to

207
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,240
Speaker 2: stay with me or it's worked out because it worked

208
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 2: out with you. You know in the past that it's okay

209
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 2: to do it. So that's what I believe can recycle

210
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,240
Speaker 2: itself within energy. But I don't believe that you deserve

211
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,760
Speaker 2: any sort of hurt because you may have hurt someone

212
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,320
Speaker 2: in the past, hopefully you know. Listen, there are all

213
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,320
Speaker 2: sorts of reasons you obviously at the time thought you

214
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,960
Speaker 2: loved each other. I'm completely putting words in my mouth

215
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,920
Speaker 2: because I don't know the situation, but you ended up

216
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 2: marrying him, so you thought you were in love with him,

217
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 2: and vice versa. And by the way, I'm not a

218
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,720
Speaker 2: marriage counselor, but I will say just because it doesn't

219
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,360
Speaker 2: work decades later, like how long were you married?

220
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:09,720
Speaker 1: Eighteen years?

221
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,440
Speaker 2: Five kids? Five kids with him. Yes, okay, No, it

222
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,560
Speaker 2: did work. It did work, And just because it's ending,

223
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,280
Speaker 2: and I have no idea of your emotional state or anything,

224
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 2: but I'm just saying it's got to be difficult because

225
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,480
Speaker 2: you spent all this time with someone who was like

226
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,840
Speaker 2: a witness to your life and went through a lot

227
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,840
Speaker 2: of things with you, and you share children, so he

228
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,600
Speaker 2: will be in your life forever. But it does not

229
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,960
Speaker 2: mean it didn't work. It just means that now you've

230
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,120
Speaker 2: outgrown that and you will move on to something else.

231
00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 2: And even though that's hard, it's more hard because it's

232
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 2: like a hard habit to break, you know, like you're

233
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,960
Speaker 2: so used to that familiarity and that happiness of a family,

234
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 2: of that person knowing you best, and sometimes though you

235
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,319
Speaker 2: got to rinse that off of you and start fresh

236
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 2: and have someone really love you for who you are now,

237
00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 2: not who you were eighteen years ago. So that's my feeling.

238
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,280
Speaker 2: It I like that. I like all of that.

239
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,440
Speaker 1: Okay, can we can we talk about Wayward now?

240
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 2: Oh my god? Yes, have you watched it?

241
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,839
Speaker 1: Don't tell me the ending. I haven't gotten the whole thing.

242
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,840
Speaker 1: My eight year old I can't watch with and he's

243
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,920
Speaker 1: always in my room and so I have to like

244
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,040
Speaker 1: sneak watch it.

245
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,480
Speaker 2: What episode are you on? I am on four four Okay,

246
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,640
Speaker 2: So for people listening that don't know, Wayward is the

247
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:35,680
Speaker 2: number one new Netflix docuseriies right or series whatever it's

248
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,960
Speaker 2: called limited scripted series. Yeah, that's out. And it was

249
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:45,679
Speaker 2: directed by someone named Mae Martin who apparently had a

250
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,239
Speaker 2: friend who went through something similar. So it is fictional

251
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,559
Speaker 2: but based on a true story okay, about a troubled

252
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,920
Speaker 2: teens school is essentially what it's about. And the headmaster

253
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 2: who is kind of awful. So I'm so happy you

254
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 2: brought it up because I just.

255
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,480
Speaker 1: Played and who is brilliant.

256
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,679
Speaker 2: Brilliant by the way, she's so good and scary and

257
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 2: all the things.

258
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 1: And now they did a twist on it though it's

259
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:19,720
Speaker 1: not like a straightforward there's it's horror, it's thriller. It's

260
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 1: what is omnipresence? Now I don't know like that.

261
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they have they they And by the way,

262
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 2: I went through this on my own podcast yesterday where

263
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 2: I just talked about my experience. So again, for people listening,

264
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,320
Speaker 2: I went to this school. I mean it to me.

265
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 2: It has given me such chills to have watched it.

266
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 2: A content creator sent me something where they had said

267
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,720
Speaker 2: that the coincidences between what they were watching on Wayward

268
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 2: were very you know, everything was very similar to what

269
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 2: I had talked to them, talked about two years ago,

270
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 2: very briefly in an interview I did with them, this

271
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 2: is how you found This is how I found out

272
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 2: about the show. So that I watched it, and I

273
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,680
Speaker 2: sat there with my fiance and we watched it, I

274
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,400
Speaker 2: guess over a course of two nights, and I tory

275
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,480
Speaker 2: when I tell you, I was going through like total

276
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 2: post traumatic stress disorder watching it. I was like, wait,

277
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,120
Speaker 2: that's not real. But what they mean by that is

278
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 2: this So they call something the ascent phase, or they

279
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,360
Speaker 2: talk about leaps, or they you know, in the background,

280
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,080
Speaker 2: they're all cutting wood. I don't know if you remember,

281
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 2: they're all outside and they're chopping wood and cutting wood. Okay,

282
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 2: So I was like, and I would pause it, and

283
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 2: this poor guy, you know, because he's like, he has

284
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 2: no idea what's coming out of my mouth and I

285
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 2: can't get the words out quickly enough to explain. Okay,

286
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 2: well what they're doing here. I know why they're doing that,

287
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,400
Speaker 2: because it's it's good for TV. But what really happened

288
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 2: was this. And you know, I've tried to tell the

289
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 2: story of what it was like to go to c

290
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 2: DO for so many years. What does c DO stand

291
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 2: for c Do? It's ce DU and they told it

292
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 2: stood for see yourself and do something with it. And

293
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 2: there's a moment where Tony Collette or excuse me, where

294
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 2: the headmaster hands a pamphlet over to the kid who's

295
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 2: about to go to the school and it says whatever

296
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 2: the name of the school is, sall fines, see yourself

297
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 2: and really do something with it. And I just about

298
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 2: fell off my bed and I said, the person that

299
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,240
Speaker 2: they're consulting with on this film has to have gone

300
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 2: to see DO because no one would have known that.

301
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,400
Speaker 2: So that was the first moment. And then so se

302
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 2: DO was the school in Running Springs, California, and we

303
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,240
Speaker 2: always the big saying see yourself and do something with it. Okay,

304
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 2: what I came to find out about ten years ago

305
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:46,480
Speaker 2: it really stood for Charles E. Ddric University. Charles Ddrich

306
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 2: was a man who started a cult called the Synanon

307
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 2: Cult based in California, and it was created for people

308
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 2: who were addicts and he would put them through this. Really,

309
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 2: some people call it terrorizing, some people call it io

310
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 2: and a spiritual awakening. But they really had to essentially

311
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,040
Speaker 2: shake you until you understood that you were not yourself

312
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 2: and you had to get these demons out of you

313
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 2: and start over essentially. So that's where this came from.

314
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 2: And now I was in the seventies, correct, I was

315
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 2: in the seventies. And the premise behind it is to

316
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 2: tear yourself down, get all the dirt off you, so

317
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,159
Speaker 2: to speak metaphorically, and then build yourself back up with

318
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,119
Speaker 2: the love and support of the people around you. So

319
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 2: it's part AA. You know, they try to get you

320
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,919
Speaker 2: to tell your story all the time and call you

321
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 2: out on stuff and so anyways, to make the long

322
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 2: story short, I later on, I mean we're talking decades

323
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,439
Speaker 2: later because I was at the school from when I

324
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:52,960
Speaker 2: was thirteen to just a month shy of my seventeenth birthday.

325
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:54,960
Speaker 1: Do you mind me jumping in from the beginning?

326
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah?

327
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,800
Speaker 1: Can you talk about why you felt you were sent

328
00:17:59,040 --> 00:17:59,719
Speaker 1: to this school?

329
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the school was for at the time, mostly

330
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 2: people who were having a lot of problems with their parents. Obviously,

331
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 2: it was not a ton of drug users at all.

332
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 2: It was kids from twelve and a half to eighteen.

333
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 2: Very few hit eighteen. Once you were eighteen, you were

334
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,679
Speaker 2: allowed to leave on your own, so that sort of

335
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,920
Speaker 2: teen group. And for me, I had fought a lot

336
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 2: with my mother. My parents were divorced when I was little.

337
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 2: I lived with my mother. She was always working then

338
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 2: had a boyfriend at night, like was never home. I

339
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,120
Speaker 2: was raised by my housekeeper and we just fought all

340
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 2: the time. I hated her. She essentially hated me to

341
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,680
Speaker 2: this day. We really have a very terrible relationship. And

342
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,639
Speaker 2: she was very resentful of me, thank you, and made

343
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 2: my life a living hell. And I was an only child,

344
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 2: and I acted out. I mean I would listen, I

345
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,600
Speaker 2: was scared, but I will admit to you, like there

346
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 2: was a time when I had like coffee, it was

347
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 2: not hot, Okay, I promise it was not hot, but

348
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 2: she was yelling at me, and I threw it at

349
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 2: her and got on her arm, and she of course

350
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 2: called She called the police and said that I burnt her.

351
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 2: They could tell that I didn't, so they didn't arrest me.

352
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 2: You know, there there are times like that that like

353
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,280
Speaker 2: we would get into these like crazy fights when I

354
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 2: was eleven twelve years old, and it was like very volatile, okay, like.

355
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: Being physical or just emotional.

356
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 2: No, no, no, not physical. I mean listen, when I

357
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 2: was little, I think it was our generation. She would

358
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,160
Speaker 2: hit me with a hairbrush. But if we ever did

359
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,439
Speaker 2: that now, I think we would get arrested. Right, But

360
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 2: I think that's how everybody parented back then. And my

361
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: parents were divorced. She she was by herself, so that's

362
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 2: how she disciplined me. And so where was your dad

363
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 2: during this? My dad lived when my parents got divorced.

364
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 2: He stayed and anchored Alaska. So okay, and she moved

365
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,960
Speaker 2: you to New York, New York. That's where they were from.

366
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 2: They moved to Alaska. They started cable television there. Totally random,

367
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,199
Speaker 2: other story. But then he stayed there and then she

368
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 2: moved back to New York with me, and so I

369
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,679
Speaker 2: was sent there because she started to send me to

370
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 2: a therapist. I would sit in a therapist office for

371
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 2: an hour twice a week and not speak, and they

372
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 2: would try to have me draw, play games, do all

373
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 2: these things, and I literally would not talk. I just

374
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 2: felt like no one understood me, and they were trying

375
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,719
Speaker 2: to label me that something was wrong, and I just

376
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: was so angered by that. And I was I think

377
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 2: as a kid, you know, you're like ten to eleven

378
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 2: years old and you're just like my mom sucks. Everyone

379
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 2: else's family is married, they all are happy, and I

380
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,919
Speaker 2: just hate my life. And I was always punished, you know,

381
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 2: always in trouble, and so it just.

382
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 1: I was in school because I know they refer a

383
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: lot to school in Wayward and how they're doing bad

384
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 1: at school they get sent.

385
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, so I got in trouble. Like I didn't

386
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 2: want to go to school. I was truant, like I

387
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 2: would I would kind of not go to school. I remember, listen.

388
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 2: I had a really good voice back then, and I

389
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 2: love to sing, and I remember the head master coming

390
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: to me and saying, we want to make you the

391
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 2: lead in the Gilbert and Sullivan you know play whatever

392
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: it was, but you have to come to school. And

393
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,439
Speaker 2: I loved singing, so that got me to school. But

394
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 2: a couple of times I would go and I would

395
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 2: stay at home with I would spend a night at

396
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 2: my teachers' homes. I don't remember why. I think nowadays

397
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 2: that would be very strange, but they were more of

398
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 2: like a family to me than my own family. But

399
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 2: I was struggling in school. I was terrible at Latin.

400
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 2: I remember, like I had to get a tutor, like

401
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 2: just I was not terrible at Latin so hard. Yeah,

402
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: I was having a hard time. But it wasn't like

403
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 2: I was a bad kid. I went to a private

404
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 2: school in New York City. It was very hard to

405
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 2: get in trouble there. Like, you know, I really I

406
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 2: would tell you I really wasn't that bad of a kid.

407
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: I just really did not get.

408
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 1: Along with my mom so and shed no point did

409
00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: she ever say, you know what, I'm just going to

410
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 1: send you back your dad and you can live with him,

411
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 1: because I can't deal with you.

412
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 2: She hated my father more than she disliked me, so

413
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 2: I think that would have been considered winning. And she

414
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: didn't like me to even communicate with him. So no,

415
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: that wasn't even an option. But the housekeeper raised me.

416
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: I mean that's who took care of me. She would

417
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 2: give me to the housekeeper and I would go stay

418
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 2: at her home once in a while. And so anyways,

419
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: I think the therapist eventually said to her, this is

420
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 2: a boarding school you can go to. Here's an option

421
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 2: of something that will really like shake it into her

422
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 2: that she could be better, you know, that there's something

423
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 2: better for her. So my mom took me to visit

424
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 2: and as I was on the tour, I'll never forget,

425
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 2: the girl said, well, this is these are the dorm.

426
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 2: So we walked through the dorm. This is going to

427
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: be your bed and I'm like, oh, I'm not staying,

428
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: I'm just visiting, and they're like okay, because that's what

429
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 2: everyone thinks. And by the time I got down to

430
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: the main house, my mother had left and she left

431
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: me there. So that's how I started going there. And

432
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: essentially I was one of the lucky ones because the

433
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: way that they show the kids in Wayward getting taken

434
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: and brought to se Do was not incorrect. There are

435
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 2: many people that are kidnapped from their own families in

436
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: the middle of the night because their families have agreed

437
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 2: to it, and they take you and they do put

438
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: something over your head and they take you. Normally, first

439
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: you go on a twenty one day wilderness program and

440
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 2: then you go straight from the wilderness program to the school.

441
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 2: But that is how people got to see you.

442
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: DO and the wilderness program, I mean I remember what

443
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 1: was it we used to have. People would be like, oh,

444
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: for kids that you know are acting up, they get

445
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: sent to these boot camps. They were like Outdoor. It

446
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: was this very specific name and I can't remember. But anyway,

447
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 1: so the Wilderness wait, and so I watched your interview

448
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: on this and they drop you in the wilderness with.

449
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: What so what's but yeah, well, the twenty one day

450
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: Wilderness program is a survival trip. That might have been

451
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: the word you were looking for, but those are survival trips.

452
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: Then you go to ce Do while at sea Do.

453
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: There's three different trips that you take. There's a three day,

454
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: there's a five day, and then there's a fourteen day

455
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 2: and the one that I recently was talking about on

456
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: my podcast, which by the way, is the one that

457
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: they show you know in a wayward. They they basically

458
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: give you a map and you're with your your peer group,

459
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: which is the group that you go through the school with,

460
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: and it's like fifteen kids and they say, here you are.

461
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: We were in the Joshua Tree desert and you need

462
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 2: to get here, and there's you know, you have to

463
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: be here on a certain date otherwise you get in trouble.

464
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 2: And so that's how we do it. And I remember

465
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 2: as you're you know, it's funny because you're asking me this.

466
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: As we're watching on Wayward and they are in the wilderness.

467
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: They pause and I'm like, Dan, Dan, Oh my god,

468
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 2: I have this photo. I have this photo of me

469
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 2: with my pack on. And I sipped through my phone

470
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: and I found it and I showed him and I'm

471
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: like fourteen. And by the way, that I'm fifteen. And

472
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 2: the most fucked up part is just three weeks before

473
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 2: my father had been found dead, and I went on

474
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 2: this trip knowing that, like I was dealing with the

475
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: fact that my father was no longer coming back. He

476
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: was the one who never wanted me to go there

477
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 2: and was trying to get me to escape. He would

478
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: send me. He sent me one thousand dollars in a

479
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 2: Rick Astley CD like Stuck in the in the the

480
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: cover of the CD. And it was considered contraband because

481
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: you can't listen to music there. We can only listen

482
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: to like John Denver.

483
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: And why why John Denver?

484
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: Because there was all these rules. There was all these

485
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: rules that you could It is very specific.

486
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: And to Charles whatever name is, he well, yeah, John Denver.

487
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: No, it was more like they wanted you to listen

488
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: to music that was like made you soul search, I

489
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: guess or whatever. So anyways, my father right, So you

490
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: were allowed communication. You were allowed communication, but like they

491
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: showed in the show, I think they showed it was

492
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: for ten minutes there for us, it was fifteen minutes

493
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: once every other.

494
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: Week, okay, And they listened as well, like they do

495
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: in the show.

496
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: They listened and if you said anything about being miserable

497
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: or wanting to come home, they would hang up the phone.

498
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was terrible. And so you know,

499
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: we to finish the conversation about the outdoor part the

500
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 2: wilderness trip they put us. You also had to do

501
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: a four day solo which they basically take your pack,

502
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 2: they give you a big canister of water, They give

503
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: you a book which is Jonathan Livingston' s Eeagel, and

504
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: they give you a notebook and for four days you're

505
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: by yourself and listen. I will tell you that I

506
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: learned so many good lessons in toilet paper. No, you

507
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: did not have toilet paper. You had I think you had.

508
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: There was some stuff that we made. I know, this

509
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: sounds really gross, and I'm not going to get into it,

510
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 2: but but there was stuff that you could use to

511
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: go to the bathroom. But wait, what's stuff? Well, like,

512
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: first of all, if you had to take a shit,

513
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: you had like a scooper thing, and they give you

514
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: a scooper. Yeah, they gave you like a shovel and

515
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: you shit in a hole and you cover it up

516
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: and then you use the water on your ass.

517
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: Okay, did they explain this or you guys had to

518
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: figure it out.

519
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 2: Oh listen, at that point, I had been there a

520
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: year and a half, so we know because we had

521
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: gone on a three day a wildnerness trip, and we've

522
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: been on a five day wilderness trip. So by then,

523
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 2: you you know. I mean, listen, we are self like

524
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 2: we we knew how to take care of ourselves from

525
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: such an early age because there was no real staff.

526
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: The staff were former kids that went there and a

527
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: couple other people, but no one was like a real

528
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 2: staff member. And all the cleaning was because we all

529
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: had things we had to do. All the fire to

530
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: keep us warm was because of we cut wood every

531
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: morning from nine to twelve. The most important thing that

532
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 2: people should really understand and the takeaway is that in

533
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 2: the synanonm they had something where you would sit in

534
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: what they call the hot seat in Wayward. For us,

535
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: it was called wraps r aps and where you would

536
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: like wrap it was exactly the hot seat. It was.

537
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 2: You sat in a circle with fifteen to twenty kids.

538
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: They screamed at you until you did something called running

539
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: your anger, which is where you because you get when

540
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 2: everyone's screaming you like that, you get really defensive. So

541
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: first kids are defensive. They're like, yeah, fuck you, you don't

542
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: know what you're talking about, You're a fucking whore, whatever,

543
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden it starts to build

544
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: up and then they're like, well, how does this remind

545
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: you of your life at home? How did you you know?

546
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: And then you start to really take it in and

547
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 2: then I know it sounds crazy, but the end of it,

548
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: you are screaming, facing the floor, looking down, snots coming

549
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: out and you're crying. And that is called running your

550
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: anger and that is what a rap is. And they

551
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: wanted you to do that in this four hour period

552
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: that you had, and you did that three times a week.

553
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: I mean, you weren't always in the hot seat, but

554
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: I was there for three years, so at least once

555
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: a week I'm getting yelled at, whether it's for not

556
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: you know, it's we couldn't wear makeup, so there was

557
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: CarMax that we had for our lips, and I'll never forget.

558
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 2: I would get in trouble because they said that I

559
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: was cutting corners by putting so much Carmex on to

560
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: look like I had lipstick on. So they were like,

561
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: you're this, You're that, you know, because I use CarMax.

562
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: I mean, it was so ridiculous, But there was a

563
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: deeper meaning behind all the stuff that they're doing, and

564
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: even in the show Wayward, for people that understand that stuff,

565
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: it's because they are trying to get you to take

566
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: away all the the stuff that doesn't matter. And even

567
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: though we have all these conversations that don't matter and

568
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: people are jealous and pointing fingers at you because they're

569
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: angry about stupid stuff, when you get to the heart

570
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: of it, there is some truth to everything. So that

571
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: is the point of like getting you to all of

572
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: a sudden start to scream and really take ownership of

573
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: your life and change. I mean, that was the bottom

574
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: line for the whole thing.

575
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: I understand that I'm not disagreeing as I'm watching it,

576
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: and I'm grateful and just if you were watching this,

577
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: but it's you see, it's understandable that you're like, okay,

578
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: you have to break free of everything that you know

579
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: and have held onto and then start anew But abuse

580
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: isn't the.

581
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: Way, right, Well, some people don't think of it as abuse.

582
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: Mental it was listen, so you do us closed down

583
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: for abuse, So it was abuse and the same thing.

584
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: There were kids that ran away that never were found again.

585
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: I ran away. I knew that everyone in the town

586
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: was in on it, so I knew to hide until

587
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: I got further far enough that I could hitchhike. That's

588
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: real too. Everything in there is real. You could ask

589
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: me about anything and it might be tweaked for TV,

590
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: but they're everything about it has something that rings true

591
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: for it. So I was sent to juvenile hall for

592
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 2: three days until I agreed to come home, come come

593
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: back to the school. And by the way, at the

594
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: end of it, when once my father died, I was like,

595
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: there's no way out now. So I just chose to

596
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: like accept it, and then I literally became one of them,

597
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: like the girl in the beginning who's like yelling at

598
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: people and blowing her whistle. That became me. It was

599
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: a pigeon. Yes, yes, that and when I graduated. Yes,

600
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: And when I graduated, I sobbed my eyes out because

601
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave. I felt like they were

602
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: in my family. And isn't that what you hear happens

603
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: with when you graduated?

604
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: You were there till you were eighteen.

605
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: No, so you graduate after a certain amount of time.

606
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 2: And I think they allude to that in the school too.

607
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: They're not eighteen when we graduated, So it's a.

608
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the Oatmeal Girl and their.

609
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: Version of what a leap is. We call them profits

610
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: and you are taken in the middle of the night

611
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: and you're up for twenty four hours and they do

612
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: all these crazy, you know things with you, these experiences,

613
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: and you come out of them and you were a

614
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: changed person. They have I think five of them, So

615
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: I think that was their version of what the leap

616
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: is because it's moments like laying and water like that,

617
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: and they're saying these things over and over and it's

618
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: changing your mind. They just do it with music and

619
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: physical activity and stuff like that. And the door reference

620
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: is that real that reference. No, it is not real,

621
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: but it is a reference of you know what. I

622
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: think modern day people think that cults are where they

623
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: have this image. They do a lot of imagery with you.

624
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: They have you close your eyes and these profits and

625
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: you have to visualize and do all these things similar

626
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: to that.

627
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: But no, the door reference didn't mean anything to me.

628
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: And why do you think in your opinion the physicality,

629
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: like the shaming, the screaming, the like, not that it

630
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: was right. But you're saying you understand, and I guess

631
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: I can semi understand where it breaks you down to

632
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: get you to a place.

633
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: But why the physical abuse, Well, the physical abuse, you know,

634
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: I didn't ever experience any physical abuse, so I don't.

635
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: I can't say that that's you know, that's a thing.

636
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: But the emotional abuse. Listen, you have five kids, you

637
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: must know because I have one, and I know that

638
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: sometimes I want to be like shake her and be

639
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: like are you you know? Why can't you understand this?

640
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: Like I know what I'm talking about, you know, and

641
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: you got to listen to me. I think the intention

642
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: behind it, like I said, is to shake you like

643
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: you know you have friends like that. You just want

644
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: to be like Rachel or Tory, like I can see

645
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: this in you. You're better than this. Why do you

646
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: continually do this? And and so it's very similar to

647
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: that that they get you to this place where you

648
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: finally cry and break down. And I think they see

649
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: a sign of breaking down is vulnerability and saying like okay,

650
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: I'll change, And that's when everybody comes in and hugs

651
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: you and says I love you so much, You're the best.

652
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: It's very it seems very abusive, it is, but I

653
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: understand the intention behind it. And I only say that

654
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 2: because I went through it, and there are good qualities

655
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 2: to me that I got from that, And it's odd

656
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: for me to say that, but there are. I'm like

657
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 2: a rule follower. I am very transparent. I can read

658
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 2: people like like I have a weird ability, only because

659
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: we had to know when someone was lying. We had

660
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: to follow such strict rules that we knew when someone

661
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: was out of agreement. They call it like I just

662
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: I grew up like those formative years when you're growing

663
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: up is when I went to that school. So it

664
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: really ingrained some stuff in me. But I also have

665
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: a lot of negatives to it, and I have boundaries

666
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: that are much different than other people's. I get almost

667
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 2: like a caged animal a little bit in certain things.

668
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: And I also am like ice a little bit, like

669
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 2: someone will betray me and I will cut them out

670
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 2: very quickly. I'd rather be isolated and alone on an

671
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: island than depend on somebody and worry that they're going

672
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: to betray me. That to me is very hard because

673
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: I had to learn to take care of myself. I

674
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: didn't live at home my entire life since I was

675
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: twelve years old. I had no one to protect me

676
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: besides myself.

677
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: You were betrayed before that by your mom maybe for

678
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: twelve and abandoned emotionally, right, So in this in Wayward,

679
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: they're not allowed to hug. That was real then. So

680
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: you have that moment where everyone's allowed to come in

681
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: in the group and hug and I love you, and yes,

682
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: do you still have a hard time with hugging to

683
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: this day. Uh?

684
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 2: It's funny. My daughter says that I'm not that I

685
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 2: don't hug her very well, And I think I think

686
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: I'm very affectionate, but I'm not affectionate to a lot

687
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 2: of people. So I wouldn't call myself a cold person.

688
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 2: But I can see how I can come off as

689
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 2: cold because I'm not like super affectionate just because I'm not.

690
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 2: I didn't grow up that way. But I believe in

691
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 2: affection and I love my daughter more than anything, So

692
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 2: when she says that to me, it feels awkward. But yeah,

693
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: I did not grow up. I didn't get any touch.

694
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: You weren't allowed to touch. And again, the only time

695
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: you could touch it was called smushing, and you were

696
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: allowed to smush when you told your story. And you know,

697
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 2: you could like lay on the floor kind of and

698
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: put your head on someone's stomach, but it wasn't like,

699
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: you know, like loving hugging it, because that was inappropriate.

700
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: You couldn't have any inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex,

701
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: so you couldn't be physical with them either. Did people

702
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: break those rules. If they broke the rules, they were

703
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: out of agreement and you would get put on bands,

704
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 2: which meant you couldn't talk to anyone, You couldn't look

705
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: at anybody in the eye. You had to sit by yourself,

706
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: eat by yourself, beyond work assignments, like they haven't wayward

707
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: when they had to go and move the stones. I

708
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 2: actually had to do that exact exercise where I spent

709
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 2: three hours moving it was wood from one place to

710
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: the other just to go to lunch, come back, and

711
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: in the afternoon I had to move the exact same

712
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: pile of wood back to the original spot. So yeah,

713
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: I mean, why is the food brown? I think that

714
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: that was a just play on stuff for TV. Yeah,

715
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 2: the food was brown to me was the metaphor of like,

716
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: the food was always the same and very bland, and

717
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: it was nothing exciting. I mean, I couldn't tell you

718
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: one thing we ate because it was like pasta or hamburger,

719
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: you know, it was. Everything was very bland. And why

720
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 2: the takeaway of oatmeal? The oatmeal? Well, it's very interesting

721
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 2: about the oatmeal because I can't remember what you're saying

722
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 2: about Wayward right now, but I remember watching it.

723
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: They don't allow anyone to eat oatmeals, so that one

724
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: girl is it oatmeal Emily or oatmeal Sarah?

725
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: But no, no, no, I think they allow them, but

726
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 2: you only get one pack. And okay, I thought that

727
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 2: was interesting. They don't allow you to eat oatmeal at sea, dude,

728
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: the only time you got oatmeal is when you were

729
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: on your wilderness trips, so to me. I saw that

730
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: in there. I was like, oh my god, that's so funny.

731
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: I get it, but like it wouldn't be something that

732
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: I would even explain because I wouldn't get it. But yeah,

733
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 2: we only got oatmeal on our wilderness trips, so it

734
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 2: was like it was like getting candy, you know.

735
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: And what what were things people would internally trade?

736
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 2: Nothing? You couldn't. There was nothing to trade. You were

737
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: not allowed to even share anything. I mean, for me

738
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: to let somebody use my car, Max, I would be

739
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: out of agreement. You Everything that was yours was yours.

740
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: But did that take you a while to follow those rules?

741
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, you're in You're in trouble for

742
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: three years. But like if you you find out there's rules,

743
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: if you pee in the shower, you you get work assignments,

744
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: Like yeah, exactly, I mean, don't people still pee in

745
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 2: their own pool? I mean, like, so it's like I

746
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 2: was always in trouble, especially at the beginning until you know,

747
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: but like you know, you have to wear your hair

748
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: a certain way. They didn't have, you know, everybody there

749
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: had a uniform on the show. We didn't have uniforms.

750
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 2: But again, the takeaway for me is we could only

751
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 2: wear certain things, so it was like having a uniform.

752
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: You had to cover your arms, you had to wear

753
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 2: loose fitting clothes, you had to tuck everything in, couldn't you?

754
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: Or your mom had it brought to you when.

755
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 2: I check When I checked in, she had a bag

756
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 2: apparently that I didn't, and she had the stuff and

757
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 2: they had given her a list of things that I

758
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: could have.

759
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Your roommate was it the same roommate

760
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 1: the entire time.

761
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: No, So my dorm changed a couple of times, and

762
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 2: it's always people of different years. So you go through

763
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: the school with a peer group. The peer group is

764
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: the fifteen people or so that arrive within the the

765
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: same month as you. So like once a week, like

766
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: a couple times a week, someone new would come, and

767
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: then there might be three weeks with no new people.

768
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: When they finally have fifteen to eighteen people, that is

769
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 2: called the peer group, and you start your first leap.

770
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 2: It wasn't called a leap, but so that that would

771
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 2: it was a profit, So that would be a peer group.

772
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: So in my dorm room, I would have someone who

773
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: was about to graduate. I would have somebody from all

774
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 2: different like three different peer groups because then when somebody

775
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: did graduate, there was a bed free, and then you

776
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: get a new person to come in that room. And

777
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 2: then as you get older in the school, you move

778
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 2: to like a better dorm, you know what I mean.

779
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: So in your dorm room. So the rooms they show

780
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: on the show, are they accurate or slightly? It's two beds,

781
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: would everything's just would very clinical. It's I don't think

782
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: it's horrific looking. I've seen worse stuff.

783
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: So to me, that looked a little bit more like

784
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 2: an insane asylum like what you see and girl interrupted.

785
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: It wasn't an insane asylum. It was literally a log

786
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: a bunch of log cabins with log either bunk beds

787
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 2: or shorter you know, twin beds. But everything looks pristine

788
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 2: because you have to make your beds. You have to

789
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 2: scrub the floor with a toothbrush, like everything is very

790
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 2: very clean. Nothing is metal, it's all wood. And some

791
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 2: rooms had two Most rooms had three to four people

792
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: in it and they would share a bathroom.

793
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: And was there Sorry now now I'm going on to

794
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 1: like reality TV shows alliances ever formed?

795
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could get in trouble, like if you

796
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 2: got too close to someone and you were always with them.

797
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: You could count on the fact you'd be in the

798
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: hot seat about why are you always a toy? You

799
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 2: guys are so you know, you gang up on people,

800
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: You're so out of agreement. You guys have all these secrets.

801
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 2: You guys are making a pack to run away together

802
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: like that kind of thing. And then you and I

803
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: would have been on a band and we wouldn't be

804
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: able to talk to each other for like two months.

805
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, you have to be very careful with.

806
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: How much time you spend with one person. And did

807
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: you have to sleep on the ground.

808
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: Ever, Like, oh yeah, yes, I mean inside in your

809
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 2: dorm room, Like, oh yeah, I mean there was time, character,

810
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: There was plenty of times depending on what was happening.

811
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,439
Speaker 2: But also when you went through the profite, you would

812
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 2: sleep on the ground. You would not have your ear

813
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: on bed.

814
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: Is this some form of breaking you down? Like, I mean,

815
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: insomnia must after a while.

816
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: Well, the profits are only twenty four hours. You're definitely tired. No,

817
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: you know what's interesting And I've talked about this before,

818
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 2: but I'll tell you because you've you don't know, I

819
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: forget what part it is now in the show but

820
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: they were talking about how somebody had to dig a

821
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: grave or something. Did you get to that part yet?

822
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: I have not gotten there yet. Okay, So during one

823
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 2: of our leaps, our profits, I had to dig a grave.

824
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: It was wintertime, it was with a spoon, and I

825
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:24,479
Speaker 2: had to lay in it and write your own epitaph. Again,

826
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: that's a word I was just saying the other day.

827
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even know that word unless since I went

828
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 2: to the school. They told us you had to write

829
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 2: an epitaph, which is what you would write about yourself

830
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: when you died, or what you want somebody to write

831
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: about you, and then somebody stands over the grave and

832
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 2: reads it to you while you're laying in this ice

833
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: cold grave because it's freezing outside. So these lessons are

834
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: supposed to, yes, break you down, but realize, you know,

835
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 2: if it's somebody dealing with a drug addiction, if it's

836
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 2: somebody whatever your own issue is that you're dealing with,

837
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 2: to show you you could be dead, but instead you're

838
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: here at this school and you could be anyone you want.

839
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 2: You just to get up and change your life. So

840
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a good lesson in there somewhere. If

841
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 2: you could sift through the the abusive ways that they're

842
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 2: teaching it to you. What was yours europe test? Well, God,

843
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: I can't remember, but it was I how could you

844
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 2: forget that? Well, because my epitaph is what I wrote

845
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 2: about myself. It was right. No, I know, her name

846
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: was Rachel could Tell. Yeah, I trust me. I blanked

847
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: out a lot of things, but it was like, you know,

848
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: Rachel U could Tell died today. She was thirty, you know,

849
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: fifteen years old. She loved dogs more than anything, you know, whatever,

850
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: whatever it said, but she was unable to forgive. Forgiveness

851
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: was a big word they always put on me. She

852
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 2: was unable to forgive X y Z. So that's what

853
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 2: it kind of looked like, you know, that type of thing,

854
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: you were unable to forgive. What did they say? Does

855
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: that pertain back to your mom? It did? Yeah. A

856
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: lot of my forgiveness was like that. My parents were

857
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: divorced when I was little, and I went to live

858
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: with my mom and I never really saw my phone.

859
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: Other those types of things, I think is what I

860
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 2: was really struggling with at that age.

861
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: Are you still in contact with any of the roommates

862
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: you had no.

863
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: And it's so odd. Choice. No, it's like so odd

864
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: because we all did feel like a family at the end.

865
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: By the way, I will tell you the people that

866
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 2: went to the school, I would never name them because

867
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: there are people that are that feel very shameful about

868
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 2: going there. I guess there are plenty of people that

869
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: you know that I know that we see in the

870
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,439
Speaker 2: public who went there. A lot of famous people's kids

871
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 2: went there that we all know, Like we might not

872
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: know their kids. I know them because I went to

873
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: school with them. But famous people that are still in

874
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: pop culture, they've sent their kids there because they had

875
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: trouble with them and didn't know how to deal with

876
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: them the way.

877
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: So the character Rory who says his father's musician and

878
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: a famous actor, I can tell you who.

879
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: That was, because now exactly that kid was in my

880
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 2: pure group and his father was a family this musician. Yeah,

881
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 2: but I had a bunch of them.

882
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: Is his father still alive?

883
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 2: Uh, he's part of a band, and I don't listen

884
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: to the band, So I don't know. I don't think so,

885
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: actually I don't know. I'll tell you off to the screen,

886
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: and I don't. I mean, but there's so I mean

887
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: so many. It's like, forget the band. It's like there's

888
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: actors and actresses. There's a journalist who's dead who sat

889
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 2: her daughter there. I think she's open about it, but

890
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 2: I don't want you know. And then you know, Paris Hilton,

891
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: I think, has talked about being a part of these

892
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 2: schools her Provo Canyon. So Provo Canyon was a sister

893
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 2: school to see do Now, I'm not saying owners and

894
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 2: I'm not going to take anything away from Paris, but

895
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: her experience is much different than mine. There was no

896
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 2: physical abuse. I didn't see it. That was not part

897
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 2: of our school.

898
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: But also, you know, she wasn't there as long, so

899
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: maybe her experience was totally different because is it also

900
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: was in pro you know, Provo and wherever. But many

901
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 1: other people at her school have come forward to say

902
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: the same thing.

903
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, so then their school, Yeah, their school was totally

904
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: run different. There was no I can I can tell

905
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,479
Speaker 2: you there was no sexual assault by any I've never

906
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 2: heard that at our school. The assaults on us were

907
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 2: much more verbal and physical, and and it was it

908
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 2: was terrifying and terrible, and you wanted to leave and

909
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: you couldn't get out of there. And it was. It

910
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 2: was miserable. But so she started to make the therapeutic

911
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: boarding School top you know, a point of a topic

912
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 2: for people to listen to. But Wayward is the first

913
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: time that I've actually seen people really talk about what

914
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: that's like. And for people like us that went through

915
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 2: what I went through, there was no physical scars, so

916
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: I you know, it's harder for us because I can't say, yeah, somebody,

917
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 2: somebody beat me up, somebody raped me. That did not happen.

918
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: But being there was terrible and tear arrifying. And the

919
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: fact that I ever thought of running away from the

920
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: San Bernardino Mountains up and running springs that's like in

921
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: Big Bear, where if you've ever gone skiing up there,

922
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: it's in the middle of fucking nowhere, And you know,

923
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 2: I would rather be in juvenile Hall than go back there.

924
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: It was a really it was a very terrible experience.

925
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: Have you seen the documentary the program about Ivy Ridge?

926
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 2: No? On Netflix? No, I should watch it.

927
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to give you more PTSD.

928
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 2: Well, I love listen it's weird. I like watching stuff

929
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: like that because it makes me feel connected to people

930
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 2: that like get it. So yeah, I'll watch it.

931
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: So when I saw Wayward come out, I thought it

932
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: was based on that documentary because I had seen that

933
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: a few months ago where the filmmaker kind of got

934
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: a group together that went there. They go, it's abandoned

935
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 1: now and it's the first time they've been back there,

936
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: and they walk through it. But a lot of the

937
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: same things. There's I think they alluded to a lot more.

938
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: There's physical abuse, and I don't think they mentioned sexual abuse.

939
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: But it was the same type of gosh, you know,

940
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: the word hard knocks just wanted to come out. It's like, Nope,

941
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: this isn't any this is way worse, right, But yeah,

942
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: you should definitely check that out. It's interesting. Obviously we're

943
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,439
Speaker 1: not here in person, and we haven't met before. We've

944
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 1: never met, right, No, I would definitely remember you, okay,

945
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: And I'm having a hard time reading you about your

946
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: experience because on some level you're saying it was horrible,

947
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: but then I feel like you're justifying the emotional takeaway

948
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: from it.

949
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I think that's the struggle that I

950
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 2: have with it, because again, I came from like what

951
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 2: I considered a broken home and I was so miserable.

952
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: So again until I hated it the first year and

953
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 2: a half. And then once I realized I wasn't going

954
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: anywhere and my father wasn't going to save me, as

955
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 2: I said, I switched and I was like, Okay, I'm

956
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: I'm in here. I'm in it. So it's hard for me,

957
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 2: you know, to express you know, how terrible it is

958
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 2: without the caveat of like, but that's who raised me.

959
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like talking about a parent that

960
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: raised you that was so terrible and horrible, but at

961
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 2: the same time you love them. So I mean, that's

962
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 2: how I feel about it. It's I whenever I meet

963
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 2: someone that has gone there, I'm very drawn to them

964
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: because I want to have someone that's gone through that

965
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: to be like, oh my god, do you remember this

966
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 2: and how terrible that was and this thing. But also

967
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 2: at the same time, I really wouldn't have a lot

968
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 2: of the qualities that I have that I think can

969
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 2: make me very strong unless I went there, and and

970
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 2: I am not someone that's been able. If I wasn't

971
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 2: as strong as I was, I would not have been

972
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 2: able to get through my life. So I listen, it's

973
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: not like I would never send my daughter to a

974
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 2: place like that, but I wouldn't. I guess I wouldn't

975
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: not have done it myself either, because I would have

976
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 2: grown up very pampered at a at a you know,

977
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 2: all girls private school in New York City, and who

978
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 2: knows what qualities was I going to get out of that?

979
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. So while there was some

980
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: very terrible, terrible experiences, I can appreciate the lessons that

981
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 2: I learned while I was there. If that makes sense.

982
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 2: It does make sense.

983
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,280
Speaker 1: It's it's hard hearing you say it, just having watched

984
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: the show and knowing that someone I'm talking to went

985
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: through an experience like that.

986
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 2: It's which, by the way, is what I feel like

987
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: a lot of people would say to you, because even

988
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 2: in the show Wayward, you see how many people work there, right,

989
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: and how everyone stays in the town. So it's not

990
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 2: just that they they are somebody's brainwash them. It's more

991
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: like they don't really want to leave because that feels

992
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: like home to them, and that feels safe. So to me,

993
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: that gave me chills. That makes me so sad. Yeah,

994
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 2: But to me, that we.

995
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: Really want as children, not all we want a lot,

996
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: but we want acceptance and when You don't get that

997
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: from your maternal or paternal unit. You look for it outside, right,

998
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: And so you got it from them, yes, yeah, So

999
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: who was the head master or head master at the time.

1000
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 2: There was two, one after the other. I've never heard

1001
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 2: from them again, but there are a couple main people

1002
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 2: that I mean, they were fired and the whole thing

1003
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 2: went down, But there was a couple of main people

1004
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 2: that really ran the school. The head master wasn't as

1005
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 2: prevalent as Tony Collect's figure. It was more this couple

1006
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 2: that worked there, and a guy named Rudy and his

1007
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 2: wife Jill, and I know where they are. And there

1008
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 2: was another guy, Martin, who's at another school that's very similar.

1009
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 2: They're all in a lot of trouble. I think. I've

1010
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: read that they have been accused of different things, and

1011
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 2: I think are dealing with some legal stuff. And you know,

1012
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 2: so the main people, like.

1013
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: Can you say what you've heard they're accused of.

1014
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: I think one of them was accused of some sexual

1015
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: abuse in a probably as far back as you do,

1016
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: but in the current school now, and Jill and Rudy

1017
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 2: have been accused of I think, and I mean again,

1018
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, I'm sorry. But I believe I've read

1019
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 2: a physical abuse, which would not prize me because they

1020
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 2: were very scary people, but again feared like you fear

1021
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: your your parents, and you want to do right by them.

1022
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 2: So I feel like I don't know how to I

1023
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if I heard that that was what happened.

1024
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,439
Speaker 2: But also I can understand that I've seen them raise

1025
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 2: their voice in a way that would scare the shit

1026
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 2: out of someone, but it's not actually physical.

1027
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: Okay, and in the way that you feel like see

1028
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: do in a way was a home for you and

1029
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: raised you. Would you want to be in contact with

1030
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: Rudy and Jill again if you could.

1031
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 2: Be No, no, no, I think I would be frightened

1032
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 2: too a little bit so no. While I was there

1033
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 2: and I wanted to make them like me and I

1034
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 2: when I remember when Rudy was happy with me, it

1035
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 2: was like the best feeling ever. I was closer to

1036
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 2: Rudy than I was to Jill, she was a little

1037
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 2: more cold. But h Now I have no connection to them,

1038
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: and I feel like I have a wall up, which

1039
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 2: is probably why I don't communicate with anyone that also

1040
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: went there with me. Where again, I have a profound

1041
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: love for people that went to that school with me,

1042
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: But I just would never reach out and talk about

1043
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 2: it because it's just something that I don't want to

1044
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 2: I just wouldn't want to do. I don't know why.

1045
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 2: That's just how I feel.

1046
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: Do you feel like CDOUD took away your innocence, your vulnerability.

1047
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:32,919
Speaker 1: I don't want to put words in your mouth.

1048
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. If I would word it that way,

1049
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 2: I would say that it took away my teenage years.

1050
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 2: I mean when I got out, I didn't even know

1051
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 2: who Vanilla Ice was. I didn't know who Milli Vanilli were,

1052
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: I like, because we weren't allowed.

1053
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: It was lip syncing.

1054
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I know, but all sorts of things that

1055
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 2: I missed, Like nineteen eight and nine to nineteen ninety one,

1056
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 2: that's what I was there, And so in those years

1057
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 2: I really lost being a teenager. I think I had

1058
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 2: kissed a boy before I had ever gone there, so

1059
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: I was never physically intimate with someone until I was

1060
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: even seventeen years old. And when I say physically intimate,

1061
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: I mean even just kissing, Like I had literally just

1062
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 2: kissed a guy before I had gone away. So I

1063
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: felt a little behind so, and then all those years

1064
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 2: of friendships and interacting and being in school and playing sports,

1065
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 2: and I didn't get that. I didn't go to a prom,

1066
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't have any of that stuff. So

1067
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 2: it was it was very strange.

1068
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: Do you want to recreate prompt? It would be really

1069
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: fun to reach Let's do that'd be fun. I think

1070
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm a little old, but we're the same age.

1071
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, can we do that? Would that be fun? Yeah?

1072
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: I would do it with you.

1073
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 2: Who would you invite to prom?

1074
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1075
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 2: Like, are you allowed to date yet? Are you dating? Oh?

1076
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: I am not currently dating, but I'm allowed.

1077
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: You're allowed to Okay, are you divorced?

1078
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: Are you it's not finalized yet, but you guys are

1079
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: allowed to see other people?

1080
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 2: Wait what do you mean aloud? Well, I don't know

1081
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: because listen, I've dated people and they're like, you're a

1082
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: fucking whore. You're cheating because the guys isn't officially divorced,

1083
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying? So like, would you if

1084
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 2: you know? And because of the loophole that I fall in,

1085
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 2: you know, and because of my past, people are like,

1086
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 2: oh he's not married, you're a mistress again. So I

1087
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 2: was always very careful to make sure I understand. The

1088
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 2: guy essentially showed me his divorce papers before. But like,

1089
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 2: so you would date somebody now you just haven't.

1090
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: I think so I have. I've dated someone, but I'm

1091
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: not currently dating. But I yeah, I don't know how

1092
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: my kids would feel about it, right, It would really.

1093
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 2: Depend on the person.

1094
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, my focus is really them and it's been a

1095
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: hard two years.

1096
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 2: For them, so but I.

1097
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a little lonely and isolated. I'm with

1098
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: five kids twenty four to seven.

1099
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way.

1100
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: I decited to talk to you. This is the most

1101
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: like adult interaction I get.

1102
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 2: Wow, I love that watching Wayward when my eight year

1103
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 2: old's is asleep, so you know, but I feel like

1104
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 2: I went through that for so long too, because my

1105
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: daughter's thirteen, and she essentially wanted to sleep in my bed,

1106
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 2: and she would have slept in my bed till she

1107
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: was twenty seven if she could, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,

1108
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: and I always was like, well, no one else is here,

1109
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 2: so exactly, I like having someone to watch Gray's Anatomy

1110
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: with or whatever. But so I get it. But at

1111
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,919
Speaker 2: some point, listen, I heard what you just said. You said,

1112
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: my focus right now is my kids, as it should

1113
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 2: be and as it will be, even if you start

1114
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 2: to date someone, and it can only make you a

1115
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 2: happier person when you find someone who has that like

1116
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 2: male alpha energy that is not coming in to replace

1117
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 2: anybody except for to just be a total asset to

1118
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 2: you and to love you and care about who you

1119
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 2: are and very much care about your kids if you

1120
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,479
Speaker 2: want that to be part of it, and thinks it's

1121
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 2: fun that you have this entourage of kids with you,

1122
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 2: Like I would never date somebody who didn't have kids

1123
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 2: or like my kids. I mean, part of the reason

1124
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 2: why I even fell in love with my current fiance

1125
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: is because he wanted to go to every volleyball game

1126
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 2: of Wyatts and like do all these family things. When

1127
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 2: I was like, listen, I'm not going to date anyone,

1128
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 2: but well too, he does. But they're in their twenties, okay, yeah,

1129
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: but he wanted to do all the kids stuff because

1130
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 2: he thought it was fun and great. We were friends

1131
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 2: first and he was just such a good friend to

1132
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 2: have around my daughter, and my daughter was like, he

1133
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 2: doesn't give me the dick, which I thought was important.

1134
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 2: How kids are just so grossed out. That's a win.

1135
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: That's a huge I understand what you're saying exactly.

1136
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 2: I wasn't even sure that he didn't give me the okay,

1137
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 2: Like I didn't know if I was into it, But

1138
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 2: I found I fell in love with him because of

1139
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 2: how good he was to my daughter and how like

1140
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 2: cool she was with him. And then I was like, oh,

1141
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 2: all right, well maybe I can get back into my

1142
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 2: feminine energy. But I feel like, you know, I know

1143
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: you must understand that, Like it's it was so hard

1144
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 2: to feel like I wanted to be sexy or you know,

1145
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 2: I just wasn't in that.

1146
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're you're in your domination like masculine energy

1147
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: because you're just fighting to survive and take care of

1148
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: a child exactly exactly.

1149
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 2: Still to this day, I am very alpha. So it's hard.

1150
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 2: I have to remind myself to not have every answer

1151
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 2: to every question and get annoyed when it's not handled

1152
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 2: as soon as I would handle it. But you know,

1153
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: to to know that I have someone that can handle

1154
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 2: the load if I need to drop it, Like you know,

1155
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 2: he's like my catcher, Like if something's about to hit

1156
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 2: the ground, he would make sure to catch it. And

1157
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 2: I like having someone like that in my life, and

1158
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 2: I wish that for you.

1159
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I thank you. I hope so too.

1160
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 2: What sign are you? Oh? I'm terrible with signs. Aquarius?

1161
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 1: You're an Aquarius.

1162
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 2: Okay.

1163
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 1: I thought that would give me answers. It gives me.

1164
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 2: Your water sign. Okay? Does that mean I retain water

1165
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 2: or something? I have no idea. I don't know.

1166
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: I jumped in with a hard question, so you know,

1167
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: at the end, I'm just going to ask you the basics.

1168
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 2: What's your sign?

1169
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: What kind of food do you like?

1170
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 2: My hearts of palm? If you want to know?

1171
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love hearts of palm? Do you

1172
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: know what hearts of palm? And I eat them by themselves.

1173
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: It's like one of my midnight snacks.

1174
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 2: I need to Okay, wait, can I give you a

1175
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 2: piece of advice? If you switch to the jar, which

1176
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 2: is a little bit more expensive, the jarred candled hearts

1177
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 2: of palm tastes better, and then you mix it with

1178
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 2: gaspot show that is so weird. But do it or

1179
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 2: you dip it? It's wait, you dip it into Do

1180
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 2: you like Bloody Mary's? I do? Okay, so you you

1181
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 2: have it instead of salary and you're bloody. Mary hurts

1182
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 2: a palm. Oh my gosh.

1183
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: Do you like our bonza beans too?

1184
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 2: I do. I mean I don't eat those. I don't

1185
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 2: eat those one by one, but I put them in

1186
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 2: my salad.

1187
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sam, Yeah, Okay, Well sorry, one of my last

1188
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: questions for you, I have a random question for you

1189
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 1: to ask me because I'm studying a dance which I

1190
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: am dying to show you for my first dance with

1191
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: my husband, Like when we have our first dance.

1192
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 2: So we picked this really fun dance to do and

1193
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,959
Speaker 2: we haven't told anybody. And well, and so we're going

1194
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 2: to this guy to help us teach, you know whatever,

1195
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 2: to teach us how to dance. And I was thinking

1196
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 2: of you, and didn't you do Dancing with the Stars?

1197
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 2: I did? Okay, well, so and I was I actually

1198
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: said this out loud in I wonder if Tory still dances,

1199
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 2: Like do you ever go and have dance lessons just

1200
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: because it's so fun?

1201
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's the thing. Dancing with the Stars literally

1202
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: changed my life. I was so scared to do it.

1203
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: Had never really danced before, except you know, out in

1204
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: the clubs in my twenties, like you know. And I

1205
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I'm great on the dance floor, but

1206
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: technical moves or maybe for some movies, I had to

1207
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: get choreography taught to me. But aside from that, No,

1208
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: and I got so emotionally invested in it because it

1209
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 1: like brought out his side. It was like me time,

1210
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: Like I was like, oh my gosh, it's like in

1211
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: spiritual like awakening. And then I was like, I just

1212
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: want to keep dancing. I'm going to dance forever now. Nope,

1213
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: I haven't danced, okay, And I asked my friend Daniello's

1214
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 1: one of the pros and she's married to my part

1215
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: who was my partner, Pasha, And I said to her

1216
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: a few months ago I saw her and I said,

1217
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: I feel really guilty about it that I like made

1218
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: this bout of myself.

1219
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep dancing.

1220
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: And then like I told everyone, I want to keep

1221
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: dancing and I haven't. She's like, no one does.

1222
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 2: I was like, no, are you serious? And she goes, all.

1223
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: The stars come in and have the same you know,

1224
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: awakening and love and joy of it and so much

1225
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: fun on the show. But she goes, I've never seen

1226
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: one actually follow through on it afterwards if they've never

1227
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: if they're not a dancer.

1228
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 2: Right, got it? Got it? And how do you still talk

1229
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 2: to any of the people you became friends with? Like

1230
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 2: that did the show? I do? Oh that's good. So

1231
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 2: you made some good bands.

1232
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was definitely a bonding experience, even though

1233
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: I wasn't there long. So what type of first dance

1234
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: do you have planned?

1235
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to say on air because it's

1236
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 2: going to be a good price, but I will tell

1237
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 2: you that we I'm fifty, he's fifty seven or fifty eight,

1238
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 2: and so we are. We hired this amazing DJ. For

1239
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 2: people that are listening, his name is DJ Eric Rhodes.

1240
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 2: You have to follow him. He has like a million followers.

1241
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 2: He does those mashups of like country with eighties rock.

1242
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 2: It's so good. Do you like country at all?

1243
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: You have to be I love eighties music.

1244
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 2: Okay, So you've got to follow him. We're flying him

1245
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 2: in and so we are going to do a little

1246
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 2: bit of it an ode to I wish I was

1247
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 2: born in the eighties theme because I'm in the seventies.

1248
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 2: He's in the sixties theme. First dance, so that it's

1249
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 2: not born. Yeah, and we've never done anything like this.

1250
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 2: I'm not like a TikTok dancer or anything. It's really hard,

1251
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 2: but it's really fun. So I feel like I'm on

1252
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 2: Dancing with the Stars because we're in there in the

1253
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 2: studio and the dancing instructor and you know, and Dan

1254
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 2: cannot dance for poor man to save his life. That

1255
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 2: he thinks he's so good, and it's just who knows

1256
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 2: how it's going to end up. He might end up

1257
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 2: squants your acceptance. Yeah, yeah, but he might end up

1258
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 2: with a broken back and during our wedding, So just

1259
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 2: who knows, because it's just there's a lot of coordination

1260
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 2: and but anyway, we're very excited about it.

1261
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 1: Be you going to do outfit changes? What's changes?

1262
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's fun. Are you serving hearts of palm?

1263
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 2: I'm probably gonna serve hearts of palm? And something I

1264
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 2: might do like a garbage salad, which I love a

1265
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 2: good garbage salad, like chopped and put all my favorites.

1266
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 2: It's a garbage salad on. Everything is in it. So

1267
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 2: they have a break when people say like kitchen sink,

1268
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 2: like everything everything in the kitchen, Yeah, exactly, all my

1269
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 2: favorite things.

1270
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

1271
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 2: Well, I hope to meet you one day. I know

1272
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 2: me too, me too. If you ever come to Palm Beach,

1273
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 2: you'll have to let me know. We'll well next time.

1274
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: I'll see you and not go to the Everglades I

1275
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: was doing.

1276
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 2: Don't and but no if you I don't know how

1277
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 2: far outside of l A you're in, but I'm there often.

1278
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 2: Oh really, Okay, so I would love to see you.

1279
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm almost slide into your DM.

1280
01:06:58,040 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 2: We can have a fun night. We'll for tend that

1281
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 2: we're going to prom together.

1282
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: Yes, that would be really fun. Okay, well, now I

1283
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: have to finish watching Wayward because I'm only on episode four.

1284
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: I think there's eight episodes.

1285
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 2: Okay, well please do It's very it's it's great and

1286
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 2: I all. And my biggest takeaway from that, I was

1287
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 2: so honored May Martin started following me on Instagram. Yeah,

1288
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 2: so I was so excited. I was like, oh my god,

1289
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 2: and I'm hoping that he'll come on my show eventually,

1290
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 2: so to talk about what it was like to make that.

1291
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

1292
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 2: And by the way, speaking of which, I really would

1293
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 2: love for you to come on my show one day.

1294
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 2: I would love to called and misunderstood about people who

1295
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 2: have at some point in their lives been reduced to

1296
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 2: a headline. And I think that there are times when

1297
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: that has been your case, and I think that people

1298
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 2: do misunderstand who you are and would love to get

1299
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 2: to know you better. I know you share a lot

1300
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: of stuff on your own podcast, and you shared a

1301
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 2: lot of stuff in your life, but I think it'd

1302
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 2: be great to have a conversation with you and have

1303
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 2: you on on that kind of platform where it's just

1304
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: about feeling like you have the you're changing your own

1305
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 2: narrative and talking about yourself. I love that i'd been on.

1306
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:09,800
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1307
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: Well, have a great rest of the day.

1308
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 2: Thank you you too, and again, thank you so much

1309
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 2: for having me.

1310
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Rachel, thank you it was a pleasure. Okay,

1311
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: bye bye