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Speaker 1: You've probably heard the term carbon capture. It's the idea that,

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Speaker 1: through a very complicated, expensive process, carbon dioxide that spit

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Speaker 1: out during the production of fossil fuels can be captured

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Speaker 1: and stored deep underground, instead of letting it escape into

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Speaker 1: the atmosphere where it contributes to global warming. Despite billions

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Speaker 1: and billions of dollars spent, it's never quite worked the

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Speaker 1: way its boosters have hoped, and yet oil companies and

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Speaker 1: governments continue to invest in carbon capture and storage as

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Speaker 1: they look for ways to meet ambitious net zero goals.

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Speaker 2: We're investing in innovation and hastening the scale up of

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Speaker 2: new technologies like carbon capture and advanced nuclear and clean hydrogen.

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Speaker 3: It's really important for everyone to recognize that even in

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Speaker 3: twenty to fifty, when we are at that zero, it

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Speaker 3: is full cost that around a culture of our energy

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Speaker 3: needs will still come from oil and gas. That's why

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Speaker 3: technologies like carbon capture and storage are important.

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Speaker 2: Canadian companies are leaders in developing technologies such as carbon

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Speaker 2: capture and storage, next generation biofuels, advanced batteries for electric cars,

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Speaker 2: and cleaner oil sands extraction processes. This creates good jobs

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Speaker 2: and it also helps the planet.

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Speaker 1: But Bloomberg, Stevens Stepchinsky, and David Stringer report that time

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Speaker 1: is running out to prove that this technology can live

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Speaker 1: up to its promise.

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Speaker 4: The International Energy Agency says that to stay on track

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Speaker 4: for net zero missions by twenty fifty, there needs to

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Speaker 4: be one point two giga tons of CO two captured

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Speaker 4: in store per year. To put that into context, there

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Speaker 4: are only forty five million tons of CO two captured

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Speaker 4: earlier this decade.

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Speaker 5: Here's the big worry.

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Speaker 6: We're talking about trillions of dollars that will be put

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Speaker 6: into technologies that keep fossil fuels going instead of being

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Speaker 6: put into technologies to replace fossil fuels.

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Speaker 1: I'm Weskasova today on the big take why it's so

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Speaker 1: hard to put carbon dioxide back in the ground. Stephen,

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Speaker 1: carbon capture is one of these things that we hear

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Speaker 1: about all the time, and yet I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people like me don't quite understand what it is.

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Speaker 1: Can you just tell us what is carbon capture and storage?

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Speaker 4: So carbon capture and storage, funny enough, isn't really exactly

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Speaker 4: one thing.

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Speaker 5: It's like a system of things.

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Speaker 4: That are all working together in this complicated chorus so

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Speaker 4: first there's the element of actually capturing it. It uses

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Speaker 4: quite a bit of science, and the capturing aspect has

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Speaker 4: been around for decades since the nineteen seventies, the oil

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Speaker 4: industry has known how to capture it. And then there's

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Speaker 4: a transportation aspect of it. How do you transport usually pipes,

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Speaker 4: And then you have to store it, and storage is

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Speaker 4: the part that can be quite challenging, but also there

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Speaker 4: are many different ways to store it. For much of

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Speaker 4: the last four or five decades, carbon capture and storage

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Speaker 4: was you would pump it back into the ground to

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Speaker 4: get more oil out.

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Speaker 5: That's enhanced oil recovery.

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Speaker 4: But what now we're doing is you have to store

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Speaker 4: it in basically poorest parts of the earth. That's liquid

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Speaker 4: aquifers or essentially empty oil or gas cavities underneath the earth.

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Speaker 4: So all of those things working together is carbon capture

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Speaker 4: and storage. It's not just like this thing that you

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Speaker 4: can go and buy from a store in place and

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Speaker 4: say bump, you're hooked up and you're working. It is

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Speaker 4: a bespoke technology for each refinery, power plant, liquefied natural gas,

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Speaker 4: export facility, whatever it is. You have to develop Basically

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Speaker 4: all these systems and get them to work together. Carbon

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Speaker 4: capturing storage is vital for hitting ambitious green goals and

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Speaker 4: reducing our pollution.

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Speaker 5: It's the dream of.

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Speaker 4: Being able to continue using cement factories, refineries, power plants

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Speaker 4: while also reducing our carbon footprint. Carbon capture essentially will

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Speaker 4: grab or halt the emissions at the source and then

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Speaker 4: store it within the earth without letting it go into

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Speaker 4: the atmosphere. CO two, when released into the atmosphere exacerbates

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Speaker 4: climate change.

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Speaker 5: So by capturing that.

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Speaker 4: CO two before it goes into the atmosphere, you're essentially

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Speaker 4: stopping that pollution from ever happening. When described like that

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Speaker 4: makes a ton of sense. The world needs to reduce

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Speaker 4: this carbon footprint, and by using technology and by reducing

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Speaker 4: pollution at the source, you can do that while continuing

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Speaker 4: essentially the life that we enjoy. You can continue using

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Speaker 4: that power plant, that refinery.

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Speaker 1: David so Stephen describes this very complicated process of trying

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Speaker 1: to capture carbon. Why aren't we able to do it?

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Speaker 1: It seems like we've been trying to get our arms

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Speaker 1: around this problem, but it keeps eluding us.

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Speaker 6: Every specific project needs fine tuning. How is it generating

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Speaker 6: greenhouse gases? Is that in oil production, is it in

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Speaker 6: gas production. Is it because it's a power plant that's

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Speaker 6: spewing out emissions. This is just incredibly complex. So you're right,

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Speaker 6: we've had fifty years of arguably relative failure governments. Some

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Speaker 6: of the biggest companies in the energy sector, they've spent

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Speaker 6: about eighty billion dollars over the last fifty years trying

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Speaker 6: to perfect these techniques. The end result is that all

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Speaker 6: that effort has captured less than one percent of the

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Speaker 6: world's pollution. In fact, by some estimates, we've seen about

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Speaker 6: forty five million tons of carbon a year captured by

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Speaker 6: carbon capture systems. That's about zero point one percent of

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Speaker 6: global emissions. So there's been a lot of effort, a

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Speaker 6: lot of cap it'll poured in, but so far we've

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Speaker 6: just not seen that reward because of the complexity.

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Speaker 1: And why is that, Simon, Why is it so hard

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Speaker 1: with all that money spent, all those years, big companies,

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Speaker 1: smart scientists, why can't they.

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Speaker 5: Get this right.

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Speaker 4: It's a lot of different reasons, but I think the

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Speaker 4: main thing to focus on is that all these facilities,

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Speaker 4: each one is so different. Just because you've figured out

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Speaker 4: how to solve these problems in Canada in this one project,

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Speaker 4: for example Shell's Quest, you can't apply that to Chevron's

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Speaker 4: Gorgan in Australia. The lessons learned can't easily be applied

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Speaker 4: to other projects because each challenge is something different. The

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Speaker 4: issues really is from the very ground up, from how

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Speaker 4: carbon capture and storage works. And while there has been

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Speaker 4: money pouring into carbon capture and storage, when you talk

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Speaker 4: to a specialists at the IA International Energy Agency, they

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Speaker 4: still say that we're behind the amount of projects that

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Speaker 4: we're building. They think that the world should be building

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Speaker 4: even more.

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Speaker 1: Why are oil companies and even the US government so

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Speaker 1: determined to try to make this technology work when it

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Speaker 1: just hasn't born out.

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Speaker 4: There are two sides of that coin. The cynical side

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Speaker 4: is you look at the people who are investing in it.

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Speaker 4: You have these major oil and gas companies that it

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Speaker 4: is in their best interest to get this to work

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Speaker 4: because then folks can continue using the fossil fuels.

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Speaker 5: That they produce.

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Speaker 4: The other side is that the reason why governments are

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Speaker 4: pouring so much money into a specialists and even environmentalists

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Speaker 4: say that this is necessary to some degree, is because

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Speaker 4: there are some sectors or industries that even by twenty fifty,

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Speaker 4: we will not be able to decarbonize. For example, cement production.

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Speaker 4: You can't electrify that. That's a chemical process that is

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Speaker 4: going to release pollution that you need to capture, and

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Speaker 4: cement is used in everything. The same can be said

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Speaker 4: with some petrochemicals, even fertilizer production. All of these things

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Speaker 4: together indicate that the world will need see to some degree,

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Speaker 4: not today or tomorrow, but by twenty fifty when we're

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Speaker 4: really trying to hit ambitious green goals.

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Speaker 1: David Stephen mentioned this kind of controversy over whether this

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Speaker 1: is a real viable technology or if it's just forestalling

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Speaker 1: the inevitable, which is to move past the use of

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Speaker 1: fossil fuels. What is the controversy around this, Like where

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Speaker 1: do people come down in the various sects.

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Speaker 6: I guess right to the heart of debate about carbon capture.

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Speaker 6: It really is the technology that many climate advocates just

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Speaker 6: love to hate. It's been used for years in a

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Speaker 6: process to generate more fossil fuels. Its first purpose was

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Speaker 6: for things like enhanced oil recovery, and now we see

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Speaker 6: big oil kind of repurpose this and cast it as

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Speaker 6: a really vital solution. To help the most catastrophic climate change.

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Speaker 6: So it is controversial, it is contentious, but what this

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Speaker 6: debate forces us to do is to wrestle with the

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Speaker 6: future of fossil fuels. How long are things like cold

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Speaker 6: and oil and gas going to have a role when

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Speaker 6: the global power mix. And that's a really difficult conversation

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Speaker 6: for many people to have, but it is an urgent one.

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Speaker 6: The fact is, whether it's the IPCC or the International

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Speaker 6: Energy Agency, what we're told is that all solutions are necessary.

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Speaker 6: The world's going to have to lean on every single

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Speaker 6: mechanism we have to avert the worst kind of planetary warming.

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Speaker 5: That isn't a.

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Speaker 6: Message that some people want to hear. It isn't a

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Speaker 6: popular idea that we're going to be putting in many

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Speaker 6: billions of dollars into a technology that essentially sustains fossil fuels.

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Speaker 6: And yet what many people argue is that it's vital

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Speaker 6: we do have to lean on this along with other technologies.

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Speaker 1: When we come back what a huge carbon capture operation

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Speaker 1: actually looks like. Steven, So, we've been talking about just

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Speaker 1: how complicated it is to try to capture and store carbon,

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Speaker 1: and you actually went out to see two of these projects.

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Speaker 1: Where are they like?

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Speaker 5: I went to one on Barrow Island in Australia.

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Speaker 4: It's Chevron's Gorgon Carbon Capture and Storage facility.

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Speaker 5: It is the world's biggest just.

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Speaker 4: Pure CCS capturing and storing plant in the world by capacity.

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Speaker 5: No one lives in Barrow Island.

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Speaker 4: It is about forty kilometers off of northwestern Australia and

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Speaker 4: it was just red dirt as far as the eye

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Speaker 4: can see, very iron rich red dirt. And the only

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Speaker 4: thing that you see there is this enormous plant which

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Speaker 4: is connected to look fied natural gas export facility. What

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Speaker 4: people often don't realize is just how big, how enormous

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Speaker 4: these facilities are. It's a dense maze of metal that

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Speaker 4: for the case of the one in Australia, on this island,

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Speaker 4: it is the size of a city block and it

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Speaker 4: is roaring. It is so loud when you are next

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Speaker 4: to it you cannot talk to another person. The facility

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Speaker 4: isn't working at full capacity. It's supposed to capture and

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Speaker 4: store four million tons of CO two a year, but

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Speaker 4: it's only capturing about one point six But the loud

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Speaker 4: sound is the release of that leftover CO two. You're

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Speaker 4: seeing about four stories of all these pipes amazing around you.

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Speaker 4: There are all these sorts of different levers and platforms

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Speaker 4: and silos and spicketts at the end that it's difficult

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Speaker 4: to see where it starts and where it ends, but

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Speaker 4: it does just indicate the scale. And what you need

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Speaker 4: to appreciate is that when you're building carbon capture and storage,

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Speaker 4: and when people talk about it, it's not simply stamping

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Speaker 4: something out. You have to build all of these complicated

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Speaker 4: pipes and make them weave around this plant in this

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Speaker 4: dirt on this island.

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Speaker 1: And where's the CO two coming from that they're capturing.

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Speaker 4: The CO two that they're capturing is coming from the

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Speaker 4: production of natural gas. When Chevron was first developing the

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Speaker 4: project a few decades ago, they were looking to tap

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Speaker 4: a natural gas field off of northwestern Australia that had

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Speaker 4: a lot of CO two concentration. I think a lot

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Speaker 4: of people don't realize that natural gas together naturally, just

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Speaker 4: has some CO two. When you produce the natural gas,

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Speaker 4: you need to remove the CO two as part of

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Speaker 4: the process. Usually, when you produce natural gas, you separate

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Speaker 4: the CO two and then you just release it into

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Speaker 4: the atmosphere which pollutes and can be a nasty problem.

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Speaker 4: The government in Australia wanted them to capture about eighty

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Speaker 4: percent of that CO two. That was part of their

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Speaker 4: plan and their promise, and so they developed a carbon

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Speaker 4: capture and storage plant and it is again the biggest

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Speaker 4: on Earth that is doing what it's doing now from inception,

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Speaker 4: it has been having quite a few problems. The LNG

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Speaker 4: facility started in twenty sixteen and it was supposed to

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Speaker 4: have the CCS plant with it, but the CCS aspect,

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Speaker 4: the capture and storage didn't start until twenty nineteen because

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Speaker 4: of technical problems.

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Speaker 5: David.

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Speaker 1: So this plant, despite all of this effort, in all

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Speaker 1: of this machinery, isn't really living up to its capacity.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 6: For example, in the last fiscal year, the Gorgon project

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Speaker 6: managed to store about one point six million tons of

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Speaker 6: CO two. That might sound a lot, it isn't. The

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Speaker 6: project is designed to sequester a far more than that volume,

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Speaker 6: and in fact that total was almost a third less

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Speaker 6: than the previous year. While Chevron say that the project

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Speaker 6: will get up and running up full capacity in time,

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Speaker 6: it just is an illustration of the fact that even

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Speaker 6: this kind of flagship project for the industry just isn't

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Speaker 6: meeting expectations. Why that's such a big problem is because

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Speaker 6: of the scale the industry needs to hit.

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Speaker 5: So think about it.

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Speaker 6: The International Energy Agency forecast that the world needs another

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Speaker 6: three hundred facilities the size of Gorgan and that they

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Speaker 6: need to be up and running by twenty thirty if

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Speaker 6: we're going to keep on track to hit net zero

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Speaker 6: emissions by twenty fifty. The challenge is just colossal. We

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Speaker 6: kind of understand some of the technical challenges, but think

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Speaker 6: about the investment. According to Bloomberg and EF, four and

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Speaker 6: a half trillion dollars is going to be needed to

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Speaker 6: be invested in carbon capture and storage over the next

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Speaker 6: eight years.

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Speaker 1: So they need to build many more of these plants.

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Speaker 1: How many carbon capture and storage plants are there right

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Speaker 1: now around the world.

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Speaker 6: So right now there's about forty large scale facilities that

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Speaker 6: actually have carbon capture and storage attached to them. It's

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Speaker 6: a small number. That's after nearly fifty years of developing

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Speaker 6: this technology, and together they capture about forty five million

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Speaker 6: tons of carbon a year. It is a small number

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Speaker 6: when you compare it against the many hundreds that are needed.

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Speaker 6: But what the industry says is, look, there's forty that

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Speaker 6: are at least to some extent working and operating. It's

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Speaker 6: now a question of scale. It's a question of w

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Speaker 6: not a question of if. What the industry says is

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Speaker 6: it's got to succeed, and of course what we've seen

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Speaker 6: on the ground is just how challenging that is.

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Speaker 4: And when you don't succeed, there are real consequences. The

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Speaker 4: International Energy Agency says that to stay on track for

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Speaker 4: net zero emissions by twenty fifty, there needs to be

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Speaker 4: one point two giga tons of CO two captured in

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Speaker 4: store per year. To put that into context, there are

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Speaker 4: only forty five million tons of CO two captured earlier

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Speaker 4: this decade. The Gorgon Project was the largest polluter in

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Speaker 4: Australia during the year through June twenty twenty two, according

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Speaker 4: to data from Australia.

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Speaker 1: So this thing is supposed to be reducing pollution, it's

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Speaker 1: causing more pollution because.

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Speaker 5: They're not capturing the CO two.

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Speaker 4: All of that pollution is being released into the atmosphere

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Speaker 4: and it is essentially a huge problem for Chevron and

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Speaker 4: they have to buy carbon credits to offset those emissions.

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Speaker 1: And what did Chevron say about that.

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Speaker 4: So when you talk to Chevron, they understand that this

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Speaker 4: is a problem, that this is a challenge, and they're

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Speaker 4: going to be investing more money to make sure that

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Speaker 4: Gorgan gets to capacity and it's doing what it's designed

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Speaker 4: to do. But when I talk to the engineers there,

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Speaker 4: I talk to specialists, they're still proud of what they've accomplished.

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Speaker 4: They say, hey, look, we're one of the few people

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Speaker 4: in the industry actually capturing and storing. We're storing millions

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Speaker 4: of tons of CO two over the last few years. Now,

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Speaker 4: of course they're not doing it at the level that

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Speaker 4: they said they would, but they said that this is

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Speaker 4: not a pure technological challenge.

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Speaker 5: We've overcome a lot of the challenges. It's just scaling

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Speaker 5: it up.

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Speaker 4: And Chevron, for what it's worth, they're putting their money

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Speaker 4: where their mouth is because they are investing and pushing

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Speaker 4: forward with other CCS projects in the US, they're looking

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Speaker 4: at projects in Europe, and they've set up essentially a

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Speaker 4: whole new unit to look at developing CCS projects back

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty one. Now, one of the other problems

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Speaker 4: for Chevron's Gorgan project is that it's built on Barrow Island,

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Speaker 4: which is a nature reserve, which means that they have

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Speaker 4: to do a few special things there to make sure

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Speaker 4: that they don't affect the local habitat. For example, the

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Speaker 4: equipment that flares gas, a normal part of LNG or

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Speaker 4: liquefied natural gas production systems, had to be separated further

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Speaker 4: inland and surrounded by massive black walls so that turtles

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Speaker 4: wouldn't think that it's the moon and use it to

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Speaker 4: navigate at night. And the plant's birth, which is like

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Speaker 4: a jetty. It's where the ships come and dock and

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Speaker 4: offload and unload up. The LNG runs abnormally long at

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Speaker 4: Gorgon so that they don't affect the turtles and the

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Speaker 4: other wildlife. But because it runs so long, it does

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Speaker 4: sometimes attract whales, and sometimes those whales can disrupt loading

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Speaker 4: at the facility.

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Speaker 1: After the break. If they can make this technology work,

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Speaker 1: just how much will it do to combat climate change? David?

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Speaker 1: Some of those numbers you were thrown out are pretty

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Speaker 1: mind bending. Three hundred new facilities the size of Gorgon

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Speaker 1: need to be built. It's going to cost four point

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Speaker 1: five trillion dollars. Is this it are realistic?

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Speaker 6: It's a big ask, but what already saying from governments

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Speaker 6: is there is political will and money is being provisioned

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Speaker 6: and put into action to try and make this reality.

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Speaker 6: If we just think about President Biden's big centerpiece, the

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Speaker 6: Inflation Reduction Act, that contains huge provisions to offer tax credits,

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Speaker 6: which is going to dramatically lower the cost of this technology.

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Speaker 6: They'll certainly cover the cost of operating carbon capture facilities.

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Speaker 5: In the UK, they're.

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Speaker 6: Committing twenty billion pounds to subsidize carbon capture projects in

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Speaker 6: the next couple of years. And we're also seeing areas

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Speaker 6: like the European Union they've got big targets that they're

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Speaker 6: aiming to increase more than two thirds the capacity that

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Speaker 6: they currently have on the continent to inject carbon. Under

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Speaker 6: the grounds political wills there some of the money starting

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Speaker 6: to be mobilized, it be realistic. That's going to be

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Speaker 6: down to the industry. It's going to be down to

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Speaker 6: companies like Chevron and others. And if they can get

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Speaker 6: these things working.

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Speaker 1: Seven, if the US and say the EU all gets

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Speaker 1: together and puts I don't know, a few hundred billion

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Speaker 1: dollars into this against four point five trillion it's the

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Speaker 1: industry going to come up with the rest.

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Speaker 4: The industry needs to come up with the rest, and

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Speaker 4: it's not going to be easy.

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Speaker 5: It's going to be challenging.

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Speaker 4: But when you look at the big folks like Chevron

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Speaker 4: and Shell and some of these other companies that are

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Speaker 4: really putting money into it, it does look like there

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Speaker 4: is at least some backing within the industry. It does

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Speaker 4: look like there is more momentum now than before because

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Speaker 4: the technology needs their investment. At the same time, they

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Speaker 4: need this technology to work because the future of their

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Speaker 4: industry and where they're going will depend on it. I

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Speaker 4: mean whether or not we'll be using more fossil fuels.

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Speaker 4: If they get in on the ground floor, carbon capturing

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Speaker 4: and storage could be this huge industry for them, and

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Speaker 4: they could be pioneers and this could be a huge

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Speaker 4: new way for them to boost their profits and use

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Speaker 4: their engineering prowess in the way that they trade carbon

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Speaker 4: and send fuel around the world. Instead of oil tankers,

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Speaker 4: maybe it will be co two tankers. They can transform

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Speaker 4: the way that they operate to get here and help

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Speaker 4: lower emissions and hit ambitious green goals.

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Speaker 5: Will it be easy? Will everyone be willing? No, it's

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Speaker 5: just not profitable.

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Speaker 4: And so until there are systems, a price on carbon

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Speaker 4: or really strong tax incentives, it is going to be

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Speaker 4: challenging for the industry to invest in it. And so

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Speaker 4: there are a lot of uncertainties. But at least when

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Speaker 4: I talk to the people at Chevron, when I talk

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Speaker 4: to people at Shell, there does appear to be a

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Speaker 4: shift in their commitment to getting this to work, and

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Speaker 4: they're not backing down.

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Speaker 6: There are companies in the industry they don't say this

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Speaker 6: is a burden that they also see this as a

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Speaker 6: huge business opportunity. It is the fact that big heavy

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Speaker 6: polluting industries, steelmaking, cement making, of major emitting industries, they're

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Speaker 6: going to have to deal with that. As prices on

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Speaker 6: carbon become more commonplace, there is a potential industry opening

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Speaker 6: up for the management of carbon emissions. We also see

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Speaker 6: lots of examples of companies looking at direct air captures,

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Speaker 6: a sector where they can make money as well literally

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Speaker 6: sucking carbon emissions out of the air. Yes, this is

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Speaker 6: quite challenging, but lots of people see this is a

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Speaker 6: huge opportunity as well.

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Speaker 1: But if ultimately we're looking at net zero and trying

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Speaker 1: to move past fossil fuels. Would that four point five

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Speaker 1: trillion dollars be better spent pursuing new, cleaner technologies instead

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Speaker 1: of trying to ride oil down.

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Speaker 4: That's the big question, and I think that's the argument

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Speaker 4: that you could go either way. I think there are

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Speaker 4: some industries or some sectors like power production.

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Speaker 5: If you're gonna connect a CCS.

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Speaker 4: Plant to a qualifire power plant, I think environmentalists or

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Speaker 4: other folks could say, why don't you just invest that

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Speaker 4: in renewables?

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Speaker 5: Why do that you have other solutions?

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Speaker 4: Why build these giant, massive monstrosities just for the sake

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Speaker 4: of continuing using a coal fire power plant? The argument there,

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Speaker 4: I think to a lot of folks it's valid. But

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Speaker 4: there are other industries, like steel making or like cement making,

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Speaker 4: where you can't easily just use the technology that we

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Speaker 4: have that exists now. There are other potentially solutions. There

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Speaker 4: are foundries that maybe are electric powered, or maybe you

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Speaker 4: can use green hydrogen. But those are all not perfect yet.

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Speaker 4: They're still being developed and they're still going to need

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Speaker 4: massive investment. And so I think, having written a story

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Speaker 4: and talk to a lot of experts, there is a

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Speaker 4: idea where the IEA and other experts say that we

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Speaker 4: need to increase the amount of carbon capturing and stories

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Speaker 4: that we have quite significantly thousands of percent from where

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Speaker 4: we are today, but perhaps because of the technological challenges

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Speaker 4: and the cost that's going to take, maybe we should

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Speaker 4: change that calculus. Instead of saying that we're going to

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Speaker 4: need that th percent more, we say, let's just focus

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Speaker 4: CCS on the industries that truly truly need it and

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Speaker 4: try to just focus our investment on that, and that

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Speaker 4: could potentially be a more viable solution for CCS, according

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Speaker 4: to the people that I had talked to further story.

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Speaker 1: After looking into this so deeply, seeing it for yourself,

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Speaker 1: reporting on it, where do both of you come down

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Speaker 1: on this question? I'm going to put you on the spot.

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Speaker 6: I think it's a difficult one to wrestle with, but

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Speaker 6: ultimately we do need all these solutions. Yes, we need

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Speaker 6: vast amounts more renewables. Yes we need to be more

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Speaker 6: energy efficient as well. But the net and net zero,

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Speaker 6: you know, it doesn't mean no fossil fuels. It means

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Speaker 6: that where we do have to continue to use those

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Speaker 6: polluting sources of energy that we're dealing with and accounting

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Speaker 6: for those emissions. So is ccs going to need to

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Speaker 6: be part of the solution. Yeah, I mean, ultimately it does,

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Speaker 6: to what extent, to what scale. I think that's still

436
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Speaker 6: a question that we are wrestling with, but it absolutely

437
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Speaker 6: has a role to play as part of a broad solution.

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Speaker 4: When you hear about Chevron or Shell, these big energy companies,

439
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Speaker 4: big companies that produce fossil fuels at pollute, it's easy

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Speaker 4: to just say these companies are doing it just because

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Speaker 4: they want to make a quick buck or continue using

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Speaker 4: their fossil fuels. But there are people in these companies

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00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 4: that are really committed to helping the environment. There are

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00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 4: people who really committed to solving these problems, and they

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00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 4: are working. They are racing against the clock. They understand

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00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 4: the controversy around ccs. They understand that there's a big

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00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 4: price tag, and they understand that it doesn't have the

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00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 4: best reputation, and they're working to change that because they

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00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 4: realize that right now, at this moment, is essentially the

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00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 4: do or die time for CCS. If they can't prove

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00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 4: now and today that it works, other companies, rivals, countries,

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00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 4: governments aren't going to put the money into it because

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Speaker 4: they're going to go to something else because they've already

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Speaker 4: spent decades developing it working and while they're proud of

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Speaker 4: what they accomplished, they all recognize they need to do more.

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Speaker 4: And having seen this big facility, yes, it is monstrous,

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Speaker 4: it is huge.

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Speaker 5: It's challenging to see that we.

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Speaker 4: Could build three hundred of these by twenty thirty. The

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Speaker 4: fact that it exists and they did it well, not

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00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 4: working out capacity, the fact that they did it does

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00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 4: indicate that it could work. If they could just figure

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00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 4: out the liquid okifer, figure out the transport, figure out

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Speaker 4: a way to reduce the costs, then maybe it can

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Speaker 4: be applied on a larger scale.

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Speaker 1: Steven David, thanks so much for coming on the show,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having us, Thanks for listening to us here

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Speaker 1: at The Big Take. It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. For more shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, and we'd love to

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Speaker 1: hear from you. Email us questions or comments to Big

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Speaker 1: Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of The

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Speaker 1: Big Take is Vicki Bergolina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Schasson is our producer. Our associate producer is Sam Gebauer.

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Speaker 1: Khil de Garcia is our engineer. Our original music was

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Speaker 1: composed by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kasova. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: tomorrow with another big take.