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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul Mishing controlled decans. Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: This evening, folks, we are returning to a bit of

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Speaker 3: a continuing obsession legendary mysterious fighters from ages past. Please

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Speaker 3: do check out our earlier series on assassins and our

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Speaker 3: recent episode on the Night's Templar. But tonight, this evening,

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Speaker 3: we're asking a question that haunted Western history for centuries.

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Speaker 3: What on earth were the Viking beerze Kerra? Were they real?

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Speaker 3: Here are the facts? I mean, before we do any

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Speaker 3: of this, we have to talk about the Vikings, because

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Speaker 3: those guys got a They're very popular in pop culture,

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Speaker 3: but I think they got a short shrift in the

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Speaker 3: historical record.

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Speaker 4: Remember that song and I think it was Clerks Sor

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Speaker 4: it's Jay and Son Bob and he's.

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Speaker 3: Like something something something some berserk to to to t

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Speaker 3: tou tou berserk.

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Speaker 4: They say some naughty words in there, but they have

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Speaker 4: the first time I heard the word berserker, I guess

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Speaker 4: it's a very metal concepts, which makes sense for Vikings.

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Speaker 3: It stays with us, you know, like you'll you'll occasionally

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Speaker 3: hear in modern English, you'll hear somebody went berserk, and

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Speaker 3: it's uh, it's sometimes a compliment, but it all harkens

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Speaker 3: back to again, this thing that is sometimes described as

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Speaker 3: the special forces of the Viking culture. And I think

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Speaker 3: to really understand this, to get into it, we kind

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Speaker 3: of have to talk about the Vikings. Like before we

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Speaker 3: went on air today, we were just shooting the breeze

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Speaker 3: as we do before we record, and we're talking about

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Speaker 3: music that we like you were saying, no, we're talking

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Speaker 3: about music that we found harkening back to the berserks. Matt,

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Speaker 3: what was that?

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Speaker 2: What was that song you hit us to as from?

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Speaker 2: I think you say donheim d A n h E

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Speaker 2: I M. The name of that song was, Oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna pronounce it wrong. It's whispered in the song ulf

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to say it right, or something

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Speaker 2: like that. They say, like, it's very interesting. It's just

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Speaker 2: it's this music that it's Norse folk music, and it

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Speaker 2: goes deep into my body and it resonates something that's

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Speaker 2: in there that you guys, it kind of makes me nervous, Like, bro,

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Speaker 2: I it sends shivers through my body. I get goosebumps

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Speaker 2: and I feel like warmth. I'm like, what are you

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Speaker 2: awakening in me? Bro?

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Speaker 3: Stop it?

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Speaker 2: But then you shared a song.

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Speaker 3: What was that one? Oh highlung? Yeah, the so there

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Speaker 3: is a there's a bit of a like housetuff works

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Speaker 3: backstory to that. So we are people with abiding interest

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Speaker 3: and very weird specific things that is true, that is known.

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Speaker 3: And the song we were sharing there is called Hilong

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Speaker 3: Norupo n O Rgupo. It is a re enactment or

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Speaker 3: a song inspired by the idea of religious ceremonies occurring

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Speaker 3: before a conflict.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, there's something in there. There's something in there.

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Speaker 4: We'll speaking of stuff that gives shivers. Does this ring

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Speaker 4: a bell, guys?

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Speaker 3: Ah?

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Speaker 4: They come from the land of the ice and snow,

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Speaker 4: from the midnight sun where the hot springs flow. The

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Speaker 4: hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands.

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Speaker 4: To fight the Horde, sing and cry Valhalla, I am coming.

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Speaker 3: And image. A lot of this is inspired by this

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Speaker 3: actual group, this culture that did exist. The Vikings are

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Speaker 3: legendary in their own right if you're looking at the facts.

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Speaker 3: These folks were a seafaring culture from what we will

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Speaker 3: call Denmark, Norway and Sweden today. Why do we keep

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Speaker 3: calling them legendary? Why do they inspire so much Western

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Speaker 3: culture and indeed, why do they inspire so much Eastern anime?

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Speaker 3: Shout out to the nerds in the crowd, it's because

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Speaker 3: we don't know a ton about them. Like even the

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Speaker 3: etymology Okay, there's a bit of a ride, but please

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Speaker 3: go here. Even the etymology of the word Viking is uncertain.

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Speaker 3: The prevailing scholarly conclusion is that it comes from the

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Speaker 3: old Norse word viking gear, which usually is taken to

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Speaker 3: mean pirate or raider, which makes sense because they raided

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Speaker 3: a ton of places.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can see that that reflected in the

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Speaker 2: imagery of popular culture. Right if you close your eyes

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Speaker 2: and you imagine a Viking. For me, it's on a ship,

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Speaker 2: one of those very characteristically quote Viking ships, and they

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Speaker 2: are on their way to shore, to perform a raid. Right,

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Speaker 2: that's like, I think that's the thing we see we

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Speaker 2: were talking about the Assassin's Creed, what has it been Valhalla,

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Speaker 2: the imagery on the front of that game, and just

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Speaker 2: how that is the quintessential version at least that the

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Speaker 2: West the way the West portrays what a Viking.

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Speaker 3: Is, and a lot of us, of course, or thinking

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Speaker 3: of Elmer Fudd and bugs Bunny the Valkyrie is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Wagner indeed he was fascinated by that too, for

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Speaker 4: some maybe problematic reasons. There's also a lot of associations

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Speaker 4: with Vikings with you know, white supremacy.

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Speaker 3: But no way, Yeah, it's true, we get out of

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Speaker 3: here with those conspiracy theories. Is absolutely correct by the

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Speaker 3: way he is.

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Speaker 2: But it is an image of that type of human

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Speaker 2: being in a form of power, right, profection and almost

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Speaker 2: and fear. We're going to get into that, right, a

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Speaker 2: symbol of fear.

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Speaker 3: The hyperborean concept that would later inform, uh inform a

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Speaker 3: lot of racist area ideologies. Right. So I do have

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Speaker 3: a pitch for favorite etymological theory on the Vikings. Uh.

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Speaker 3: The words origin could be traced to Old English and

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Speaker 3: Old Frisian uh vising with a w or vising also

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Speaker 3: with a w h. And these words are about three

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Speaker 3: hundred years older than the old Norse words. And if

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Speaker 3: this theory is true, if then game, then vising and

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Speaker 3: vising probably derived from vic, which is related to the

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Speaker 3: Latin Latin word vicus, which means village or habitation. So

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Speaker 3: logically we could say that viking ultimately means Paul. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if we can afford the sound cube, but

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Speaker 3: here we go. The village people nice rate at the

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Speaker 3: MC brother. It's funny too.

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Speaker 4: I always go down these silly coper usually incorrect itmological

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Speaker 4: rabbit holes, but the German word for white is vice,

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Speaker 4: so just better thrown that out there.

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Speaker 2: That's I think that's kind of blowing my mind, man,

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Speaker 2: because I'm getting an image of what we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about here with the berserker, specifically some of the

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Speaker 2: bear chested, bare chested fighting, some of the like almost

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Speaker 2: not sexualized, but the very I don't know, bear male

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Speaker 2: masculinity going into battle because there's some form of in

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Speaker 2: vulnerability perceived by like having fewer clothes and armor on hyperchats,

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Speaker 2: and then just now I'm just imagining that like vibe

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Speaker 2: that you get from the band the Village People.

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Speaker 3: That Okay, yeah, they were a group of renegade folklorees

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Speaker 3: before they began. I think so their boy band, so

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Speaker 3: I like it too. We're going to see all these

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Speaker 3: threads come together in a in a weird tapestry in

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Speaker 3: tonight's episode from the late eighth century CE to about

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Speaker 3: the late eleventh century. So like, right when the crew

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Speaker 3: Usades are popping off, vikings are this massive expansionary force.

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Speaker 3: These guys were all over the place. These men and women,

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Speaker 3: by the way, were all over the place raiding, but

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Speaker 3: they were also trading. They were also settling and attempting

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Speaker 3: to create new communities for their culture. They got so

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Speaker 3: far they went to the Mediterranean, North Africa, the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: They were probably the first Europeans to create a settlement

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Speaker 3: in North America. They called Newfoundland, Vinland or Winland, and

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Speaker 3: this was once treated as a conspiracy. Turns out it's true.

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Speaker 4: One more quick line from a Zeppelin song on we

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Speaker 4: sweep with thrashing or our only goal will be the

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Speaker 4: western Shore.

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Speaker 3: I mean, come on, it's like the image there, dude.

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Speaker 2: What was that episode we did where we were looking

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Speaker 2: back at early North American exploration outside of indigenous peoples

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Speaker 2: that were it was a gosh, I can't remember the

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Speaker 2: name of it. You'll have to like search back through

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Speaker 2: our our shows. But we covered theories about early early

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Speaker 2: expansion into what we call in North America now by

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Speaker 2: people who would be maybe described in this way like Norse, Viking, whatever. Fascinating.

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Speaker 2: They're fascinating potential artifacts that date back to that time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Man.

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Speaker 3: Also my favorite, like hanging out off air conspiracy, there

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Speaker 3: is the idea that what was that Eric the Red

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Speaker 3: conspired to mislead people in his explorations by calling the

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Speaker 3: icy waste Greenland, Yeah, and by calling the one place

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Speaker 3: you could live up there Iceland. Don't go there, don't

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Speaker 3: go Yeah, that's so fun. I always figured it's not.

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Speaker 2: The most beautiful place you've ever seen.

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Speaker 3: Right right, It's no small barred islands. But for centuries,

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Speaker 3: Vikings were pretty misunder stood for a lot of us,

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Speaker 3: as Noel, Matt and I have described today and as

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Speaker 3: you are doubtlessly imagining in your mind, there is a

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Speaker 3: very clear imagistic association evocation when you hear the word

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Speaker 3: Viking like a hairy, horned helmet wearing marauder murdering and

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Speaker 3: pillaging his or her way up the European coast. And

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Speaker 3: it's just like endless cycle of raids and mercenary violence.

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Speaker 3: And usually the villain in those cases is portrayed as illiterate, uncultured, barbaric.

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Speaker 3: But here's the thing that's not entirely true. Vikings did

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Speaker 3: make inscriptions in ruins, but a lot of it was

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Speaker 3: like graffiti. Some of the earliest graffiti in fact is

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Speaker 3: it translates to English as something like Wagner was here,

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Speaker 3: and it's in ruins. And because literacy, as we understand

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Speaker 3: it was very late to the Viking game, a lot

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Speaker 3: of the history about Vikings was written centuries later by

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Speaker 3: descendants of their victims, their rivals, their enemies. It's kind

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Speaker 3: of like stories about the Night Templar. To be honest, I.

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Speaker 2: Can see the similarities there. It really goes back to

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Speaker 2: the scant amount of historical artifacts, right, the actual things

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Speaker 2: written down, actual things, what chiseled into stone somewhere.

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Speaker 3: There's like a couple, Yeah, yeah, there's stuff, Like there's

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Speaker 3: stuff like Eric is cool? Who was ERICQ? The History Channel?

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Speaker 3: Eric with a K no doubt, Eric with a K

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Speaker 3: no doubt.

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Speaker 4: But like you know, these folks didn't just like randomly

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Speaker 4: decide to rape and pillage their way across the globe.

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Speaker 3: Like there were real.

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Speaker 4: Reasons, functional reasons for this expansion, right Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I love that you point that out, man, because history

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Speaker 3: loves a very clear good and a very bad, and

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Speaker 3: unfortunately that's not how the real world works. The Viking communities,

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Speaker 3: what we call the Viking culture, that expansion, that cycle

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Speaker 3: of raids and pillaging, it was triggered by multiple social factors,

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Speaker 3: and I would say also ecological factors overpopulation, resource demand

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Speaker 3: at home. And then also again, they're not like the

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Speaker 3: super best people. They were noticing that nearby communities or

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Speaker 3: cultures that they could touch with their naval acumen. Those

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Speaker 3: communities were also struggling with similar domestic problems. They were

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Speaker 3: surviving in the wake of chaos, the wake of instability.

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Speaker 3: They were easy to get and so they got got.

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Speaker 4: Do you guys think that because of the nature of

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Speaker 4: just survival and the difficulty of living in this type

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Speaker 4: of time, that there would have been maybe a shorter

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Speaker 4: some of quote unquote good people because people didn't have

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Speaker 4: the luxury of being good. It was very doggy dog

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Speaker 4: I just I don't know. I think about this sometimes.

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Speaker 3: It's a good question. I mean to answer that we

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Speaker 3: would have to put in the piece of xenophobia, like

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Speaker 3: what do you consider also a peer member of humanity?

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Speaker 3: And that's something that humans continue to struggle with today. Thankfully.

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Speaker 3: One good thing about the age of abiquitous information is

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Speaker 3: that there are slightly more opportunities for empathy. But to

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Speaker 3: your point, Noel, in terms of good or bad, that's

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Speaker 3: often sort of a tinplate rationalization. The idea of absolute

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Speaker 3: good and absolute bad is kind of a convenience.

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Speaker 4: The stuff of stories too. Really, it's an easy narrative.

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Speaker 3: Device, you know, Yeah, yeah, I mean think about it.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're you're just a regular farmer like everybody else.

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Speaker 3: You're just a humble farmer, like in that excellent film.

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Speaker 3: We got a couple of emails.

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Speaker 4: It's up you've upgraded it.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a movie. He's a humble farmer, boy,

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Speaker 3: is he? Ever?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 3: H imagine you're this person and you know you're you're

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Speaker 3: breaking your heart over growing whatever crop you can grow,

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Speaker 3: and that all of a sudden in the distance, you

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Speaker 3: hear a deep resonant horn. Paul, can we get a

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Speaker 3: scared perfect, and then you're here like howling, Paul, can

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Speaker 3: we get some howling the animals? Yeah, and then you

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Speaker 3: look out across the coast and you see some ships.

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Speaker 3: That's how people encountered Viking. So no wonder they thought

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Speaker 3: they were monsters and maybe not quite human, look like.

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Speaker 4: Monsters with those outfits, right, I mean, if you're in

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Speaker 4: a place of superstition, this invading horror that you've never

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Speaker 4: witnessed before, they're literally decked out with devilish kind of

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Speaker 4: get ups, and you might well believe that they're supernatural

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Speaker 4: or not of this world.

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Speaker 2: But again, is that actually how they were dressed when

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Speaker 2: they came through? And how much of that is myth?

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Speaker 2: How much of that is psychological force projection? Which artifacts?

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Speaker 2: Though of these type of things, don't we is horned

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Speaker 2: some of them, the historical.

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Speaker 3: Record is pretty pretty scant. Again, like the horned helmets

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Speaker 3: just don't make a lot of sense in realistic combat.

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Speaker 3: Like it's there's a reason that most of the MMA

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Speaker 3: fighters you know, and most of the boxers you know

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Speaker 3: don't have long hair, they don't have a bunch of

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Speaker 3: stuff on their head, because when you are in malay

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Speaker 3: situations or melee situations. That's an opportunity to grab something

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Speaker 3: and introduce you to a kneecap. You know. True, so

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Speaker 3: they probably I don't know about the kneecaps, but anyway,

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Speaker 3: like horned helmets, we know they became. It's kind of

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Speaker 3: like how Coca Cola made the image of Santa Claus, right,

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Speaker 3: the horned helmets association with Vikings. There are some ancient

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Speaker 3: artifacts horns, primarily like horns like Paul just played that

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Speaker 3: have some engravings of people who appear to have horns.

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Speaker 3: But the idea of all Vikings wearing horns on their

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Speaker 3: helmets as a uniform comes about because of Wagner. It

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Speaker 3: comes about specifically in eighteen seventy six because Wagner had

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Speaker 3: a costume designer named Carl Emil Doppler, and Carl was

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Speaker 3: great at costumes, maybe not so much historical accuracy.

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Speaker 4: Well, either way, what we do know is that they

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Speaker 4: are get ups. Whatever they may have been exactly, they

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Speaker 4: were going for a show of force and intimidation. And

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Speaker 4: I think that Egger's film The Northman, he's really well

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Speaker 4: known for really getting historical details right. Like in The

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Speaker 4: Witch they used like old English texts and stuff for

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Speaker 4: the dialogue. But I've read in multiple places that the

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Speaker 4: visuals like they had, like their teeth would be engraved

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Speaker 4: into like and it's a they got that detail in

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Speaker 4: the film, and a lot of the outfits and armor

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Speaker 4: and stuff, no horns I I don't believe in the

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Speaker 4: film are apparently pretty period accurate.

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Speaker 3: And it also depends, like period accuracy is tricky because

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Speaker 3: like even unto whether or not Viking communities had tattoos,

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Speaker 3: we know the technology was present, but we don't know

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Speaker 3: whether they engaged in it. Because again, when you have

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Speaker 3: a community that is only putting written records in ruins,

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Speaker 3: then you're kind of like trying to base your understanding

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Speaker 3: of a culture on their graffiti. It's sort of like asking,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's sort of like it's sort of like saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: you're a historian hundreds of year in the future, what

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Speaker 3: can you tell us about America? The only record we have,

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Speaker 3: by the way, is stuff written in barroom bathrooms, So like,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's a there's an emphasis then on perhaps

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Speaker 3: the wrong things.

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Speaker 4: These folks were crass, These folks a lot of ding dongs.

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Speaker 3: These folks had a love of Pallas. Yeah, and not

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Speaker 3: every Obviously, not every Norse person was a Viking, just

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Speaker 3: like how most of the templars at their height were

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Speaker 3: not warrior monks. You know, there was a lot of infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the blood eagle thing is probably super embellish.

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Speaker 3: The nicknames like Ivar the Boneless and Ragnar hairy Breeches,

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Speaker 3: those were made up years and years after those biological

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Speaker 3: humans were well god typos, mistranslations, misunderstandings. There's one legend

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Speaker 3: that we think deserves closer scrutiny. What about the you're

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Speaker 3: what about this.

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: Before we get to that ben you said, blood eagle.

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Speaker 2: Let's just quickly describe it. If you're listening to this

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Speaker 2: and you've got kids in the car or something, skip

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Speaker 2: forward fifteen seconds.

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Speaker 3: What's the work? Go quick easily? Yeah, okay. So the

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Speaker 3: blood Eagle, as popularized by the History Channel, its weird

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Speaker 3: right by the History Channel's program The Viking or just vikings.

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Speaker 3: I think it is according to the stories, it's a

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Speaker 3: method of ritual execution, and it's it's laid out in

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Speaker 3: the written record in poetry, which is open to interpretation.

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Speaker 3: But the idea is help me here, guys. The idea

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Speaker 3: is that you would sever the ribs of your victim

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Speaker 3: from the spine, right, with some sort of bladed instruments.

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Speaker 2: Yes, with someone laying down on their stomach, basically right, and.

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Speaker 3: Then you would pull their lungs back and out and

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Speaker 3: stretch them such that they created a pair of grizzly wings.

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Speaker 4: If you want to see it, picked a pretty grizzly.

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Speaker 4: It's in the film Midsommar by Ari Astor. No spoilers

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Speaker 4: as to who receives the blood Eagle, but it is

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Speaker 4: very much fully on display.

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Speaker 3: And when you get introduced to the characters in Midsummer, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: just guess which one that'll that'll make it pretty despicably obnoxious.

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Speaker 3: So how would we describe berserkers specifically, because they were

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Speaker 3: not your average vikings according to the stories.

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Speaker 4: Maybe what you might think of as a tank in

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Speaker 4: a D and D party, right, the biggest and burliest,

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Speaker 4: like a barbarian.

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Speaker 3: Two handed weapon wielder.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe sometimes they might have issue, you know, sometimes

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Speaker 3: they might have two little hatchets. Sometimes they might have

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Speaker 3: a big battle axe. Then they might be nude, right,

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Speaker 3: The main thing is they're naked. The main thing is

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Speaker 3: you can see they're junk, so they are but they're

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Speaker 3: they're clad in animal skins, right. Conventionally it's supposed to

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Speaker 3: be a bear skin, but it may also be any

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Speaker 3: other large predator. So we know Viking communities respected bears,

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Speaker 3: but also wolves also, you know, large wild dogs. And

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Speaker 3: and to think with those guys is they're so ten

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Speaker 3: toes down, they're so pawsed down on this that when

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Speaker 3: it is time to tangle, they kill whomever is in

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Speaker 3: front of them, even a friendly force. They're just swinging.

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Speaker 3: They're they're like bullets, you know, and the ships like

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Speaker 3: the gun.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean, but like they likely many of

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Speaker 4: them wouldn't survive because of their lack of armor. They

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Speaker 4: really were almost like comic cop type situations, you know.

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Speaker 4: And again just to reference the North the Northmen, they

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Speaker 4: take a lot of psychedelics in that film, a lot

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Speaker 4: of like weird you know, described psychedelic herbs or whatever.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't be surprised if some of these berserkers were

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Speaker 4: also hopped up on some kind of go go juice.

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Speaker 3: That's the idea. The main differentiation you've hit on it

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Speaker 3: is that they encounter some sort of disassociative mental state,

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Speaker 3: a feugue, a trance that gives them temporarily something like

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Speaker 3: a super soldier Captain America ask abilities. They take damage

364
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Speaker 3: that would incapacitate the average person, indeed, the average Viking.

365
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Speaker 3: They continue to fight on and they don't stop until

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Speaker 3: the battle is done. The trance leaves and if and

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Speaker 3: then they're weak, you know, and they're out of it,

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Speaker 3: we would say shock. I think most medical professionals would

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Speaker 3: call it these days. And if they do survive, if

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Speaker 3: they do not succumb to their wounds, they also have

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Speaker 3: short form amnesia. They have no recollection of what just happened.

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Speaker 3: So imagine it's like the trope from every Western werewolf film,

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Speaker 3: right or most of the I would say, the good

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Speaker 3: Western werewolf films. They wake up and they they're covered

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Speaker 3: in blood, and they're like, Eric, what happened? What the heck?

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Speaker 2: And he's like, good job, dude, And there's all amazing imagery.

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Speaker 2: We are describing the story of a berserker, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the myth or the legend or the thing that is

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Speaker 2: out there right as what this thing is or could be.

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Speaker 2: We're not describing historical you know berserkers.

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Speaker 3: The image, yes, the brand, which will become important later

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Speaker 3: over the centuries. Scholars wondered whether these warriors were an exaggeration,

383
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Speaker 3: a fabrication, maybe a secret group of drug users, maybe

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Speaker 3: a religious sect or wait, what were they even real?

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Speaker 3: Questionable answer after a word from our sponsors, Here's where

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Speaker 3: it gets crazy. Yes, I mean something like the berserker

387
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Speaker 3: was a real thing. Like there were definitely Viking warriors.

388
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Speaker 3: We know that that happened. They rated a ton of people.

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Speaker 3: You can trace that in the DNA of Scandinavia.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the word itself is often thought to arrive from

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Speaker 4: Old Norse berserker. It's just that the e, which translates

392
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Speaker 4: roughly to bear shirt. But like many of the things

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Speaker 4: involved in this tale, not everyone agree. Is you'll often

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Speaker 4: hear folks argue that berserker actually means bear shirt, like

395
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Speaker 4: they are e like Matt was a was alluding to

396
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Speaker 4: earlier or bear chested, once again implying the thing we

397
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Speaker 4: mentioned about them, you know, going in commando.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you said, classic D and D Barbarian

399
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Speaker 3: inspiration for anybody who is interested in playing Dungeons and Dragons.

400
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 3: What you need to know is that your barbarian character

401
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 3: does better when they don't have a ton of armor.

402
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 3: If you want armor, you're looking for fighter class, paladin,

403
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: a couple types of cleric.

404
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Speaker 4: But you gotta put points into armor, you know, like

405
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Speaker 4: it's a thing like in and of itself, is a

406
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Speaker 4: superpower that you got to kind of cultivate throughout the game.

407
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it depends on depends on the game. I think

408
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 3: that's largely accurate. And speaking of depending on the game,

409
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Speaker 3: when we're playing the game of historical accuracy, we quickly

410
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Speaker 3: find that Berserkers as a concept sort of move back

411
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Speaker 3: and forth over the boundary of fantasy and fact. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of speculation about these guys. There's a lot

413
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Speaker 3: of strange stuff out there. And because some of these

414
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: stories were created so long ago, more than a thousand

415
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: years ago, these they're treated as though they are fact.

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Speaker 4: Right.

417
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Speaker 3: You could see sources, numerous sources that claim Berserkers had

418
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Speaker 3: superhuman powers, you know, like you could cut off a leg.

419
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Speaker 3: Oh crap, he's still coming, you know, How is he

420
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Speaker 3: hopping like that? How is he dangerously hopping toward me? Yes?

421
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Speaker 2: Think about how strategically advantageous that would be if you

422
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: could see those stories into the mythology of your army. Right,

423
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Speaker 2: So then when you do show up, when those horns

424
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: do sound off in the distance, right, and you see

425
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: that there are ships heading your way, and you've heard

426
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: stories about that very sound, and you know what's on

427
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: that ship. It's these berserker guys who are gonna get off,

428
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Speaker 2: you know, get off that ship and just immediately go

429
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Speaker 2: ham on everything in sight. That's like, that is terrifying.

430
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, there may be three hundred of you, but you're

431
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: all usually farmers. There may be only you know, one

432
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty other like operators on this ship. But

433
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 3: you've heard the stories.

434
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well maybe it only takes one. And even if

435
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: I do somehow lop off a leg, like you're saying,

436
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: this guy's not gonna stop.

437
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: It's just so funny to me. He's like the most

438
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 3: dangerous pogo stick in Europe at this point.

439
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: But just that what it would do to effectively have

440
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: people throw down whatever weapons or tools they had and

441
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 2: just GTFO. And there's a a very sparsely inhabited village

442
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 2: now that this ship rolls up onto because you've you've

443
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 2: scared everybody off, like well in advance of actually arriving.

444
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 3: It's pretty smart. And we know that most people throughout history,

445
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: given the opportunity to learn are incredibly intelligent. I mean also,

446
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 3: it's funny to me that even in what we know

447
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 3: about Viking communities, the berserker class is typically not going

448
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: to be considered the cream of the social crop. They're

449
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 3: in North Sagas. Like in the old school North Sagas,

450
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: scholars often interpret villains as berserker characters, and it all

451
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 3: goes back to the penchant for killing their own like, oh,

452
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 3: there's not a war, I'm just hanging out in town.

453
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: Well screw this guy.

454
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, aren't there stories of them actually kind of

455
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: incorporating themselves into like a nobility, so like into the

456
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: king's circle or whatever, So that it's almost like, I imagine,

457
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: at least from the royalties perspective, having that weapon you're

458
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: talking about, right, and not a nuke necessarily, but or

459
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: a tactical nuke, but it is mad. Yeah. Right, So

460
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 2: if you if you've got a couple of berserkers on

461
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: your team that you could send in if you wanted to,

462
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: it would be Again for me, it's all about the

463
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: psychological bit, where if if some other king just across

464
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: the way knows that you've got a couple of berserkers

465
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: on lock Uh, They're like, no, I don't want to

466
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: mess with that guy.

467
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 4: Well, okay, so, berserkers, why are you the way you are?

468
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 4: What made you this way? Yeah?

469
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: Damn mean, at this point there's there's no hard proof,

470
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 3: no conclusive proof of what informed this legendary brutality. And

471
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: we owe a big, a big thanks to Peter Pence,

472
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: who is the curator of Danish Prehistory at the Nash

473
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: Museum of Denmark and Denmark's National Museum is one of

474
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: the best sources on Viking lore and Viking history, and

475
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: so what he points out some of the things we

476
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier. Pence says, again, this phenomenon of berserkers, it's

477
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 3: primarily known from written medieval era sources, not from the

478
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: Vikings themselves. One of the first written records of what

479
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: we would call berserkers comes from an Icelandic historian who

480
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: lived around twelve hundred, so again, several centuries after this

481
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 3: era of berserkdom had passed. And this guy, his real

482
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 3: name is Snorri Stirlson. That's not a real name, that's

483
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 3: his real name.

484
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 4: I love that so much, right, and yeah, okay, okay,

485
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 4: it makes sense at tracks It is Icelandic and lived

486
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 4: around twelve hundred CE.

487
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 3: Got it, And he writes to the Berserkers, where.

488
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 4: A type of almost monk warrior in a way at

489
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 4: the very least imbued with Odin's wrath and his power

490
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 4: and blessing or what have you. He says that Odin's

491
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 4: own men went to battle without coats of mail and

492
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: acted like mad dogs or wolves. They bit their shields

493
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 4: and were as strong as bears or bulls.

494
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: A lot of animal illusions here.

495
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 4: They killed people and neither fire nor iron affected them.

496
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 3: This is called there's their garage.

497
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: Well, you get into that spiritualism thing. A lot of

498
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 2: it goes back to this concept that we like being naked,

499
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: at least to some extent when in battle, showed your

500
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: enemies that you at least felt invulnerable. And if some

501
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 2: of them believed some of the legends they thought you

502
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: were invulnerable, then just talking about the leg and keep

503
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: thinking about Poco guy again. But just that concept, right,

504
00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 2: Gosh that like, I don't know, there's something too that

505
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: that goes so deep in this in the spiritual side,

506
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: in the like a like a holy warrior of some

507
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: sort by.

508
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 4: The gods, yea, by zoos, psychos, you know, the psychos

509
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 4: that Elden Ring builds where they're basically nude, you know,

510
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 4: a flex man John.

511
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's my second character.

512
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: But I thought it was solo. Also, there's a there's

513
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: another thing I want to point out here to uh,

514
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: the idea of fighting nude as a sig up still

515
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: occurs in the modern day. You get people out, that's

516
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: for sure.

517
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: At this point, if I ever get in the street fight,

518
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: that's the first thing I'm doing. Strip.

519
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: Okay, So here, I'm going to give you a tip.

520
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 3: And this is this is not I shouldn't even say tip,

521
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: but this is the this is okay, let me put

522
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 3: it this way without compromising any Imagine again, you're that

523
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 3: farmer and the the vikings are running at you. You

524
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: hear the horn, thanks Paul. You hear the howls, Thank you, Paul.

525
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 3: And then the people running at you are not just

526
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 3: naked and screaming and howling at animals, but they have

527
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: visible erections.

528
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I'm gonna work on that one.

529
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 3: We'll see there we go, all right, Maybe maybe just

530
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 3: don't get into fights. That's the best way to handle

531
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: a fight is to avoid it in the first place. Well, gosh,

532
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 3: I'm just picturing sexual.

533
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 4: Occurred on the battlefield in the midst of it, covered

534
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 4: in blood, I mean, in some gnarly stuff.

535
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 3: Shout out to Judge Holden for a new fans of

536
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 3: blood Meridian. So so to pence this idea from our

537
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 3: Icelandic historian way way back. It's interesting because as two

538
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: interpretations of berserker, one fighters who go to battle clad

539
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 3: only in animal skins, and then two fighters who have

540
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 3: some sort of preternatural, supernatural strength. And the question that

541
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: we've been obviously quarreling with because we are all grown ups,

542
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 3: is why would you go into battle but naked? It's

543
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 3: it's the sye up aspect. It always has been. It's

544
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 3: such a potent psychological weapon. If you're on the other

545
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: side and you've never encountered these people, if you're an

546
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 3: enemy on the other side, you're thinking, these guys are bonkers,

547
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 3: they don't give a f and it shows. It shows

548
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 3: like again, you know, if you've ever been in a

549
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 3: fight or an interrogation where the first thing you do

550
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 3: is harm yourself in front of your enemy to establish

551
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: the stakes of the encounter, then that's what's happening here.

552
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 3: Like if they don't care about their own personal safety.

553
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 3: What do they think about yours? Are they indeed? Are

554
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 3: they indeed and vulnerable due to the favor of a god.

555
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 4: It's like when someone in a film or something allows

556
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 4: themselves to take a brutal beating and just like eggs

557
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 4: them on.

558
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 3: You know, just to show that I'm insane. You know,

559
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 3: I try.

560
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about everything you guys are saying. I'm trying

561
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: to find instances of a fenciclidine or PCP, like a

562
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: similar chemical that occurs in nature or something like is

563
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if there is anything, I can't find

564
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 2: it in the moment at least, but like something like

565
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: that that would offer that dissociative thing we talked about,

566
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: but also the altered state to where pain perception goes

567
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: way down right, and all the things we're describing here.

568
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 3: We have drugs at home, says the human brain, right

569
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 3: like you can you can create We'll get to that,

570
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 3: but you can create that. The thing is also we

571
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: have to bust a little bit of a myth. These

572
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 3: guys probably weren't just running around butt naked with bone.

573
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 3: They had weapons, they had shields, and according to Peter Pence,

574
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: again one of the best sources on this. Wolf skin

575
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 3: and bear skin do offer some protection against bladed weapons,

576
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: I just not as much as armor. But also on

577
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 3: a financial standpoint, it's easier to at this point to

578
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 3: kill an animal and wear its skin than it is

579
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 3: to craft armor, which is quite expensive in terms of resources,

580
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: time and finance.

581
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 4: Really quickly too, back to the potential drugs that they

582
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 4: might have been taking. I found an interview with David Eggers,

583
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 4: the director of the Northman Or. He talks about the

584
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 4: historical evidence of this, and it's something called henbane. Henbane

585
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 4: seeds were found in some Viking graves of folks who

586
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 4: were known to be serruses or witbals rats.

587
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 3: Exactly right, Ad, you can tell which direction we're heading in,

588
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realist, We're going to take a pause for

589
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: a word from our sponsor, and then we're going to

590
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 3: explore the most legendary part of the story, the origins

591
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 3: of the berserker rage. We've returned. Over the centuries, there

592
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: have been multiple theories about this legendary rage or what

593
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 3: could have originally inspired it. In general, we can trace

594
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: it to three primary paths of speculation, and to be

595
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 3: completely clear, as a bit of a disclaimer, there's some

596
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 3: sticky stuff in here. We're not personally condoning it, nor

597
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 3: do we personally agree with it, but you need to

598
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 3: know the scholarship. The first one is religious fervor, Like,

599
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 3: what if these guys just got so hyped up, right,

600
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: inner circle of odin are we are the tip of

601
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: the spear? We are not for ourselves but for something larger,

602
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 3: indeed our God. Could that have inspired this rage? Could

603
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 3: you have been so consumed by this idea that you

604
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: would have been able to ignore revis injury like losing

605
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 3: a hand, you know, like the god tyr or you know,

606
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: losing a leg or something like that.

607
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm going back to the Templars episode. It

608
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: feels similar to that, right, where if you have enough

609
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: conviction about your purpose, of the purpose of battle in

610
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: the moment and in general, I think you I think

611
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: the human mind can go past a lot of things

612
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 2: like that.

613
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 4: It's yeah, physicality, I mean, belief is a hell of

614
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 4: a drug, right m m.

615
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's surprising too, the association of bears and

616
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 3: wolves with elite warriors in what we'll call Scandinavia today

617
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 3: that far predates the age of Vikings. In the beginning,

618
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 3: it appears that this idea of a religious Berserker level

619
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 3: was linked to the concept of an inner circle of

620
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: Odin or Voden worshippers, and as time went on, the

621
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 3: religious links became less prominent and these guys became more

622
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 3: like your ordinary warrior of the day. And look, okay,

623
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 3: so sounds crazy. Sure. We have to recognize though, that

624
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 3: religious indoctrination can be very powerful. Members of modern cultic

625
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 3: organizations can be manipulated into acts they would not commit otherwise.

626
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 3: So I think there's some sand to this. We just

627
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: don't know how far it goes into the physiological aspects

628
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 3: of the legend.

629
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 4: Well, and Ben, you mentioned also that some of these

630
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 4: folks maybe were not exactly the cream of the crop

631
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 4: in terms of their ability to do other things which

632
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 4: you likely could interpret as mental health issues. Yeah, perhaps

633
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 4: developmental issues of some kind. And then because of the

634
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 4: lack of sensitivity around those sorts of things, they're like, oh,

635
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 4: you're perfect, let's give you up, big boy.

636
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, this is the sticky one. This is

637
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 3: more controversial, but there are scholars arguing Berserker were handpicked

638
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 3: on the basis of what we today would recognize as

639
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 3: mental health issues. The argument is, like, let's say there

640
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 3: are people, there are people in the community who have

641
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 3: what we will call schizotypal conditions, right, schizophrenia, disassociative disorders,

642
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 3: and so on, And then the argument is that instead

643
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 3: of executing them for witchcraft or like aanthropy, the way

644
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 3: so much of Europe later did, the leaders of these

645
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: communities would say, heck, yeah, man, you really are an animal,

646
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 3: and I've got a for you.

647
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, let's okay. It goes back to psychological warfare,

648
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: both exterior that we're talking about with the deaths, but

649
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: and interior, right, bringing some like really creating something like

650
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 2: that monster. Yeah, like your own golm. But it's a

651
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: human being that just had you know, suffers from dissociative states,

652
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: that is also really strong.

653
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 3: Turned on their masters. Of course, it's not your fault, bro,

654
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 3: you were a bear at the.

655
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: Time like that because it's so uncomfortable, But I could

656
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 2: I can see that functioning with these these two religious

657
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 2: fervor plus these mental health issues. If only you could

658
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 2: add one more thing, law and order vikings.

659
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 3: It's interesting too.

660
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 4: I mean again, we're talking about all these pop culture

661
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 4: touch points. But like in the God of War most

662
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 4: recent God of War game Valhalla Rising, like one of

663
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 4: the characters turns into a bear. That's like they're you

664
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 4: know there there are a lot of transformations into animals,

665
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 4: but one of the really powerful ones into a bear.

666
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 3: The proper word for like anthropy, what is it theoanthropy

667
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 3: or something like that. Shape shifting belief in shape shifting, well,

668
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: not just were wolfrey, it's any type of shape shifting. Yeah, weather,

669
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 3: so like skin walkers who in across the pond. But

670
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 3: whether that is metaphorical, metaphysical shape changing, or indeed physiological

671
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 3: shape changing, the belief is quite common in all the

672
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: cultures in these regions at this time. And this is

673
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 3: where to your point, Matt, into your earlier foreshadowing, you know,

674
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 3: this is where we add the third ingredient to the recipe,

675
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 3: the idea of drugs, the idea that these guys were

676
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 3: normal folks until they got into the ritualistic ingestion of

677
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 3: particular forms of hallucinogen or psychedelic It could it's often

678
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 3: described like you mentioned henbane. A lot of scholars will

679
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 3: say it could be a combination of herbs or mushrooms,

680
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 3: ingested in sort of a pre battle amped up ceremony.

681
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 3: So like right before you play a sports game, you

682
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 3: get in the huddle.

683
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 2: Almost like ayahuasca with that altered state, but not not

684
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 2: super agro exactly.

685
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: Not looking for self actualization, but.

686
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: Imagine the ritualization of something like that. That's why I

687
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 2: thinking the ayahuasca rituals, where it's something that's very spiritual,

688
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: it's something you do and then you're off to the races.

689
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was depicted in the In the Norsemen to

690
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 4: the Northman too, there was a scene where they do

691
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 4: a ritual using this stuff.

692
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: And suck like dougs exactly.

693
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

694
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and vulva volva is or so. Anyway, there is

695
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 3: a shamanistic class in Viking culture. These are what we

696
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: will call the holy folks, the seers, or the Syruses.

697
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: And there is historical precedent because we do know that

698
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: that class ritualistically ingested hallucinogenic substances to arrive at a

699
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 3: greater spiritual understanding. They were soothsayers, they were clairvoyance. According

700
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 3: to their communities, they participated in the non material world.

701
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 3: But there's I think there's logical leap there because none

702
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 3: of those substances have been found within the bodies of

703
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 3: like ingested in the bodies of these warriors. They may

704
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: have been buried with them to show that they had

705
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 3: an appreciation of that shamanistic class. But is it not

706
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 3: kind of like a future historian saying, in twentieth century

707
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: American society, some people did LSD and cocaine. Therefore all

708
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: marines were always on LSD and cocaine. It's kind of like,

709
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 3: I think there's a little too much red string connection there. Yeah, no,

710
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 3: I feel you. So does it feel to you, guys?

711
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 4: Like the religious argument is maybe the strongest, because we

712
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 4: know how that can really transform the mind and make

713
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 4: you fear fearless, you know, if it's weaponized.

714
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: In that way.

715
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm thinking I haven't seen The Northman yet, guys.

716
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 3: Oh, it's so good. It's very good. It's time.

717
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 4: Also, Valhalla Rising, the Nicholas winning Refin movie, is also

718
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 4: about that same kind of air.

719
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 3: It's also quite good. Yeah.

720
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 2: Well, I'm looking at a clip from The Northman where

721
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 2: Byork apparently byk plays those witches called the Whispering Cirrus. Yes,

722
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: where I think that's what you're describing here at least

723
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 2: as what the imagery at least is is looking like

724
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: that to me. And I'm just imagining someone like that

725
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: in your not inner circle, right, but someone in your village,

726
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: in your city where you live. Would that person would

727
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 2: appear to have lots of power, especially depending on preconceived

728
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: notions and beliefs about you know, all of that stuff.

729
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 2: I can see that manipulation totally being a thing.

730
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 3: And now they're paying attention to you. Yes, weird audio

731
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: podcasts and no one saw it was a really cool move.

732
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 3: But there's also a shout out to uh Willem Dafote,

733
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 3: villain the ws and v's are getting to me anyway.

734
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 3: He's also one of those examples. And there were the

735
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 3: idea of these shamans. It was primarily female led, but

736
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 3: there were male identifying or non binary shamans in the mix.

737
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: That has proven that's part of historical record. If you

738
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 3: are that person, Uh, if you are considering a career

739
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 3: in berserkery, uh, there's one thing you have to know.

740
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 3: And I think there's a piece of the puzzle that

741
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 3: informs our episode. It wasn't a career for a lot

742
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: of these guys. What if going berserker was not an

743
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 3: all the time vocation. Peter Pence again one of the

744
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 3: best sources here. He notes that it may have been

745
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 3: an initiation ritual. It may have been a thing you

746
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 3: did once to get your stripes, to make your post,

747
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 3: to join the gang. So like, hey, you want to

748
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 3: be down with us? You really? Are you really cool

749
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 3: with the God of War? My guy? If so, you

750
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 3: can fight with us the first time, you gotta be naked.

751
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 3: We don't make the rules. Sorry, we don't make the rules.

752
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 3: That's God's call.

753
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you have to do this ritual and embody

754
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: the God of War and then you're in. That's fascinating

755
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 2: to me. I could I could see that as a

756
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 2: thing or just at least someone who's chosen right you

757
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 2: again going back to thinking, think about that person, A

758
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 2: special person chooses you for this mission, and maybe it

759
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: is just to get in, but maybe it's also a

760
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 2: special thing that like almost as a self sacrifice or

761
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: I see, I see, I see, I don't know, I

762
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 2: don't know.

763
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 3: A passage, a passage to a higher socioeconomic status. And

764
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 3: if you die, a one way ticket to Valhalla. And

765
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,439
Speaker 3: not everybody gets to go to the good death.

766
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: But if you don't. You're rewarded here, right, Yeah.

767
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can get more freelance gigs in the proto

768
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 3: Blackwater or Academi or EXI, or for more stability, you can,

769
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 3: like we said earlier, be a bodyguard for the political class. Yeah,

770
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 3: and then your main job becomes being the dude who

771
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: stands behind the yarl or the king and just makes

772
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 3: crazy eyes.

773
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 2: Oh, in psychological warfare, because it's now their tails now

774
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: of you, this berserker that went into battle, enslayed all

775
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 2: these people, and now all you got to do, as

776
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: you said, Ben, is stand behind the yarl, and everybody

777
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: who looks at the RL sees you and they go,

778
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 2: oh crap.

779
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 3: I know that is and then you just yes. And

780
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 3: the crazy stories they're like, did you really kill all

781
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 3: those people and eat their livers?

782
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: And then just grunt God and it's and it functions

783
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 2: to protect the king, the you know, the person running

784
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: the place without actually having to do anything further.

785
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: So, what do we think have we have we laid

786
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 3: out a good case? I mean.

787
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 2: I think so. I'm freaked out that that music has

788
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 2: such an effect on me internally.

789
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 3: I don't like this.

790
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 2: I don't want to have been a berserker in a

791
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: past life.

792
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 4: Guys, you got some bodies on those two hands.

793
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 3: Maddie, I have not technically nol is. I don't want

794
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 3: to put you on the spot, bro, but technically I

795
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 3: believe you're the most Nordic. Yeah, I was once a

796
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 3: young gentleman. Point well, I would say, with all this

797
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 3: in mind, we can reasonably conclude at the very least

798
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 3: the following something like there's a Geitra was real, operating

799
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 3: both before and during the age of the Vikings. They

800
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 3: probably did not have superpowers. They were not some weird

801
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 3: ancestor of Marvel super soldier serum. I personally do think

802
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 3: the story is more interesting if they were hopped up

803
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 3: on some kind of drug, but we we don't have

804
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 3: hard proof. That's not to say it didn't happen, it's

805
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 3: just to say that there isn't a lot of documentation

806
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 3: about it.

807
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 4: I think too, that the combined with the religious fervor angle,

808
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 4: the mental illness angle is very interesting because you know,

809
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 4: there's all kinds of stories about folks who thought they

810
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 4: were communicating with God, but it turns out they may

811
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 4: have had schizophrenia or so. We've talked about that on

812
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 4: the show recently. So can you imagine if someone like

813
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 4: that was manipulated and like you know, browbeaten into believing

814
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 4: that they were communicating with God and that those voices

815
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 4: were voices telling them to kill for the gods, that

816
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 4: could be turned by Burk at the very least he got.

817
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 3: Burke, they could have they could have called them buerkers whatever.

818
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 3: So what seems most likely then is that the combatants

819
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 3: called berserker today their ranks were probably composed of young

820
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 3: men seeking wealth and status in society, possibly through intensely

821
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 3: dangerous positions in raids. In most cases, they were not

822
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 3: planning to make a career out of doing this every weekend.

823
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 3: There were exceptions to the rules. Probably your career, yeah right, exactly.

824
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 3: There were warlords that were there are always a couple of,

825
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 3: as they would say, bad apples. But one of the

826
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 3: best pieces for the evidence of the existence of berserkers

827
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 3: comes in ten fifteen Yarl Eric Hakanasson and Gagas the

828
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 3: medieval Icelandic stuff. They had a code of law that

829
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 3: made it illegal to be betzerkiir, and that means that

830
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 3: they did really exists. There's also a huge like stolen

831
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 3: valor aspect to this where like, it's really good for

832
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 3: your job if you're a raider, to have it be

833
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 3: believed that you were bozekir. Anyway, I think these the

834
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 3: thing is these exceptions they make a better story than

835
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 3: the truth. That's what their enemies latch onto when they

836
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 3: write these history books. And perhaps the best lesson in

837
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four is that we see a very common thing,

838
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 3: and all too common thing. Power structures can, will and

839
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 3: do manipulate the vulnerable into very dangerous positions. Sign up, right,

840
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 3: delce et de koro mest pro patria mori?

841
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 2: What did which one?

842
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 3: Did we use that in? What was that?

843
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 2: Thirteen Days?

844
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 3: We used that? And no, we used it in.

845
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 2: One of the things you wrote for this show?

846
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 3: Right?

847
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 4: Uh?

848
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 3: Maybe it's the English is it is both sweet and

849
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 3: fitting to die for one's country. It's an old war poem.

850
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: Gosh, I know, I swear, I swear you've used it

851
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: in something that we did that was fictional, that was

852
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: awesome and I can't remember it right now.

853
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 3: I use it.

854
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: It's an it's an easter egg somewhere that somebody's gonna find.

855
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 2: I think it also is a lesson about the psychological

856
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 2: warfare that these same groups will use right uh not

857
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 2: about not just to get someone to become a berserker

858
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 2: or get someone to go on a mission like that,

859
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: but using fear to control the uh up the opposition right,

860
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 2: internal and external fear.

861
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 3: I think agreed, And perhaps these are the things the

862
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 3: modern world doesn't want you to know. But you know

863
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 3: what we want to know, folks. We want to know

864
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 3: your thoughts. We can't wait to hear your stories of

865
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 3: other legendary fighting groups. Tell us if you think they

866
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 3: got a short shrift, tell us if any of the

867
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 3: legends are true. We try to be easy to find online. Correct.

868
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 4: You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where

869
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 4: we exist on Facebook, on x FKA, Twitter, and on

870
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 4: YouTube where you can find new video content coming out

871
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 4: every single week. And boy do we have some doozies

872
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 4: coming your way. On Instagram and TikTok, you can find

873
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 4: us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff.

874
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 3: Show.

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00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 2: As we said at the top, if you liked this episode,

876
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 2: head back to October twenty twenty and listen to our

877
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 2: two part series on assassins. It's they're excellent. Listen to

878
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: them both because the story flows all the way through

879
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 2: the thing. We also have a phone number. It's one

880
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 2: eight three three std WYTK. It's a voicemail. You've got

881
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 2: three minutes, give yourself a cool nickname and let us

882
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: know if we can use your voice on the air.

883
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 2: If you've got more to say than can fit in

884
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,240
Speaker 2: that message, why not instead send us an email.

885
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

887
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.