WEBVTT - The Financialization of Human Beings 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:09.640 Welcome to the Hudcast. This is a crypto podcast where 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.480 we talk about the best n f T investments and 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.760 how you can get rich. To bro, if you just 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:20.320 accept the wave of the future and decentralize your finance 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.319 and invest in a bank that can take all of 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.520 your money overnight and disappeared because it was really just 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.479 being run by a guy in Macedonia and he was 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.760 just a rug pole the entire time. And you lose 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.080 your life savings and you have no recourse and that's 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:40.920 the fucking future of investments. Bro. Hey, Bro, you're fired. Yeah, 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:46.000 that's fair. This is it could happen here podcast about 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.040 how things are bad, sometimes a podcast about how to 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.960 make them less bad. Today we're talking about the former 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.240 how things are bad, and we're we're talking about financialization 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:00.120 um and specifically the financialization of like human being is 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:04.160 in the endeavor to create art? Uh and so artis 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.039 artist a broad broad term. I mean, I said the 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:12.320 endeavor to I'm sure they all want to be creating art. Well, 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.080 this won't make any sense to people yet, so I'm 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.280 gonna I'm gonna give a brief overview. There's an article 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:18.640 in the Atlantic that dropped on November twenty nine, called 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.800 what Happens when You're the Investment. It's by Rex Wouldbury 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:28.959 Um who I hate um. So as a note, okay, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.800 let let me just get the the the nut of 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:33.840 the article is, and that there's been a couple of 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.520 other articles on this guy. His name is Alex mass 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.640 mesh Um and he is a French kid, I think, 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.360 who decided to tokenize himself. And what that means is so, 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.680 like you've got the etherium blockchain, right, he basically he's 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:56.560 he's putting he's carving up aspects of his like potential 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.600 future earnings, and he's putting those on the Ethereum blockchain 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.400 as like tokens that people can buy. And the idea 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.640 is that this kid had wanted to like start a 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.120 business and be an entrepreneur, but he didn't have any money. 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.200 So using like on the ether blockchain, he turned himself 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.440 into tokens basically like his potential future earnings and his time. 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.880 And basically people are able to buy up coins effectively, 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.440 I mean not coins, but tokens shares. Yeah yeah, dollar 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:27.799 sign Alex is like the name of the token which 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.080 basically shares they're buying. He's turned himself essentially into a 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:36.560 publicly traded company kind of um. And holders of his 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.000 coins are like, he's splitting up fifteen percent of his 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.200 income for the next three years basically among people who 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.919 like hold his coins. And he raised like twenty grand 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.800 this way. Um. And it's not just like it's not 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.239 just his future earnings that are being kind of tokenized. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.120 You can also use tokens to like buy retweets from him, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.320 or one on one conversations or and here's a line 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.919 I love and introduction to someone in his network. And 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.560 and it's the overall idea because there's you can find 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.000 some other good articles. Good as an interesting word to use. 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:11.600 You can find other interesting, fascinating articles about this this idea, 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:17.120 which is like human beings tokenizing their future earning potential 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.000 um in order to uh raise money um. And And 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.560 it's uh the way this is usually sold as a 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.359 good thing. In fact, I should probably just read a 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:29.600 quote from this Atlantic article to give you an idea 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:33.440 of how uh mass measure is or of how um 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:37.240 um the art. The author of the article, Rex good Wouldbury, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.040 is is trying to sell this ship. We all have 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.840 the slightly annoying friend who insists that she knew about 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:45.840 so and so before they were even famous. When it 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:47.960 comes to Taylor Swift, I'm that friend, and I'm more 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.240 than slightly annoying about it. I was a Taylor fan 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.720 in her pre fearless full on country days, years before 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.200 Conway interrupted her on stage at the v m AS. 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.520 But in our current constructive fandom, I'm treated no differently 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.839 than a fan who discovered Swift on SNL a few 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.520 weeks back. This would be different, though. If Taylor had 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.360 done what mass Measure did and turned herself into an investment, 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.480 she could have issued a social token. Whereas non fungible 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.600 tokens or n f t s are so called because 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.800 of the uniqueness of a digital asset, social tokens are fungible. 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.599 In other words, each Alex token is interchangeable with every 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.600 other Alex token, just like a dollar bill can be 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.600 traded for any other dollar bill. Say Taylor issued had 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.760 issued her own token, Let's call it a dollar signs swift, 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.280 and say she had sold dollar signed Swift to her 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.039 biggest fans. Yeah, say I was one such fan. Over time, 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.240 as Taylor's popularity grew, the value of the Swift token 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.760 would have appreciated. As an early believer, I would have 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.320 shared in the financial upside of her growing fame. The 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.200 Swift token I had brought for a hundred dollars in 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.800 two thousand seven might be worth a hundred thousand dollars today. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.039 The Taylor Swift mini economy would serve both the singer 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.400 and early fans like me. As an artist, Taylor could 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.679 have funded her work by selling dollar signs or Swift tokens. 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:55.400 She might not have needed to sell ownership of her 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.480 master's and she might not have been forced to re 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.720 record her albums to take back control over her art. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.000 Taylor's fans, for their part, would have been rewarded for 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.120 a decade of patronage. We're all evangelists for our favorite artists, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.839 yet we capture little of the value that we helped create. 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.440 And then there's a lot that, like I find unsettling there. 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.320 One of them is the idea that, like, yeah, the 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.080 fact that I was a fan of someone earlier means 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.040 I should get some sort of reward for it, Like 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.560 I should be treated differently because I liked it earlier, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.360 which you might recognize, like the thing that everybody has 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.640 been shipping on for like fandoms for years now, like 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.920 it's been a it's been a huge thing where like, yeah, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:31.800 you're being an asshole if you're if you're talking about 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.200 like if you think you have some additional ownership of 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.839 Star Wars because you watched it ten years before the 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:38.880 fans today and so you like different stuff in it. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.520 Like that's we all recognize that as like toxic um. 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.400 But the the whole argument of this article is that like, no, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.640 this is how the entire future of creativity should work. 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.440 We find unsettling. And it also it also ties into 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:57.839 like a really concerning development in paras social relationships of 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:02.440 like invest in them, want to buy a conversation with 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.400 them in like this really weird way. Um And the 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.600 fact that young artists are going to be pressured into 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.200 this kind of thing is really scary. Yeah, because there's 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.600 like one of the things mass Measure did as like 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.360 um uh as an experiment, was like allow people who 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.520 had bought his tokens to make life decisions for him, 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:23.520 like tell him when to wake up in the morning 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.560 and whether or not to eat red meat and stuff 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.599 like that. And he stated that like, well, none of 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.159 this is binding, right, Like I'll i'll I might do 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:32.640 what they say, but like I'm not going to do 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.719 anything crazy or whatever. But also this is like the 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:41.240 first iteration of this um. And I like this Atlantic article, 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.599 which I think is unhinged for reasons we'll get into, 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.960 but it's purely talking about like, look at this incredibly 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.960 successful person. Imagine if they've gotten to be incredibly successful 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.440 using this method instead, and it might have like spared 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.640 them this thing. But when I keep thinking about is like, Okay, well, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.479 the vast majority of people, like there's no reason to 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.080 invest in them, Like, yeah, maybe if you come out 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.400 with a great song or a great video, like, yeah, 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:07.360 you could get investments, And I'm sure that could work out. 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.000 I'm sure, Like Taylor Swift is a successful enough person, 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:11.720 I'm sure she could have found a way to succeed 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.120 under that system too. But what I think will be 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.200 much more common because there's no real reason to anticipate 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.120 that the average person will have an earnings potential. If 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:26.800 you give them twenty grand, that's greater than twenty grand. Um, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.720 the most likely thing is that like people just buy 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.760 shares and poor people to make them do fucked up ship. 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:32.960 Yeah it's gonna be How would you not how would 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:34.960 that not be where it goes? That's that's that's the 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.640 only way that this is going to get like used 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:43.440 on a large scale. People just selling themselves. People are 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:49.840 people are gonna use the ether blockchain to like crowdfund 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:55.480 and crowd uh cast a new jackass basically, like it's 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:57.480 going It's not going to be like a thousand Taylor 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.840 Swift's all token izing themselves. It's going to be like 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.440 millions of people in the Global South issuing tokens to 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.640 like vote on whether they roll down the hill in 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:10.320 a barrel or in like a fucking porta potty. Like 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.080 it's just it's a nightmare to me to contemplate people 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.200 actually adopting this. You know, there's there's a lot of 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.400 really like the thing I think is the most incredible 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.800 part about this is that like, okay, so like it 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:29.880 basically doesn't matter what like economic theory you used to 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.080 look at it. It's like every single one of them 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.760 tells you something just like absolutely fucked about it. And 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.600 like you know, because because I mean they're there, there's 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.400 there's there's some extent to which I look at this 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.760 and it's like this isn't that much different than the fact, 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:45.240 you know, it's like, okay, so you're paying someone to 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.440 do whatever you want, but like, okay, like that's not 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.160 that much different than just a job, right, Like it's 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.400 it's not it's not inherently that much different than the 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.040 fact that everyone is forced to just do wage labor. 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:04.040 But also, like there's one was interesting things to me 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:05.880 that I thought about this when I was what I 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.960 was reading this was so, do you just know what 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:13.280 capitalization is? Yeah? Yeah, so this is this is just 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:18.360 capitalizing a person, right, Like it's literally taking a person 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:22.280 public effect put putting, turning them into like a tradeable 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.839 share and that's like an investment. Yeah, I mean, this 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:26.559 is all one of the things that like a Forbes 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.240 article I found points like this is another kind of 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.120 unregulated securities training. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what's what's interesting 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:34.880 to me about it is that like, okay, so you know, 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:39.360 this is also already how accounting wise, every corporation sees 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.160 a person, right like every every every every person in 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.280 the asset book is you know, yeah, you know, like 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:46.480 a wage is just capitalization, right, It's like how much 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.640 will you pay now for this much money? Later you 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.200 could But it's like people are doing it to themselves now, 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.720 which is like this, Yeah, you could argue that like 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.199 elements of this or how like banks treat you when 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.400 you get a mortgage right um like, but but also 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:06.840 that's much more rigorous and limited, like it has like 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.760 regulations and it has for how those things work. It's 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.800 not some like twelve year old getting like like going 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.480 on to coin base and buying part of you as 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.040 a joke with your with like his dad's money, right like, 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.400 because it's like yeah, because what if it's like, there's 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.280 no law against a seventeen year old I guess if 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.719 maybe their parents may need to consent, but there's no 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.000 law against the seventeen year old getting a facial tattoo 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.839 of like the doors of a concentration camp on their face. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.360 But what if some kid tokenizes himself for forty grand 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.079 so he can drop an EP and that's what like 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.800 a bunch of four channers who buy up his his 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.120 shares want him to do um. And maybe the fucking 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.319 kid does that because he knows it's going to get him, 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.320 because his brain is not done and he knows it's 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.680 going to get him. A bunch of fucking social media 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.600 clouds and like it's there's a lot of and there's 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.120 no way to regulate that, Like it's just an inherently 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.640 toxic proposition that I don't think the government would. I 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.000 don't know what side of this the government would even 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.839 step in on, Like what is the regulation of people 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.080 deciding I'm letting random strangers who pay me money vote 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.280 on what I do with my life? What do you 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.520 ever think? It reminds me of a lot is like 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.480 the micro lending stuff from the nineties, where it was like, oh, well, 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.600 we'll like empower these people by we'll go in and uh, 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.280 We're going to give them like a small amount of 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:27.680 money and they have to pay back. And it was 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.600 like you know, and and all of the same stuff 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.400 that you're reading, all the arguments about why this is 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:34.880 a good thing are exactly the same as the micro 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.720 lending ones and that stuff. You know. There there were 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:43.520 two ways it turned out. One was basically you get 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.000 the scenario where both sides are scamming each other, where 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.199 you know, all the people who are getting these micro launchers, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.160 they're just taking the money and walking right like that's 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.000 you know that their their their things. Oh this is 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:54.400 I can just get money like this and we can 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.560 just keep I just keep not paying it back, and 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.400 so I'm scamming them. But then on the other side, 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.319 you have these people who are like, oh cool, I 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:02.880 can give this person this loan and turn them into 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.920 a debt pion and it and you know, and and 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.720 the the the really depressing side about it is so 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.839 that the people who couldn't get away, like I mean, 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.640 we're literally reduced debt pions. And you know, I mean 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.959 there's a huge wave of suicides in India. Probably don't 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.000 say example is wave of suicides people drinking past a 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.400 side because they couldn't pay off these loans and so 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.680 and and the thing that's different about this is that 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.160 like I mean, ay, you're doing it to yourself. But 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.760 then be again, there's no regulation. But that also means 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.080 there isn't any way to force someone to do what 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:40.280 you say you're gonna It's it's unclear how it's going 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:41.760 to be enforced. And the other thing that is not 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.120 clear is like what does losses look like? Like what 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.240 what happens when someone like you cannot make back on 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.120 like an investment, But if the investment is a person, 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.240 how does that work? And if someone's contractually obligated to 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.679 give a certain share of their income. What happens when 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.640 there's not enough income for that, like, like you know, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.000 so those types of things. Yeah, I mean there's no 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.920 answer to that. Uh, And there's nobody like the money 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.000 that's going to be whatever made in this is going 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:14.520 to be made before anyone steps into to try to 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.840 answer that. If anyone ever does, like, um, it's it's 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.000 gonna be the next because I think we're I think 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.320 we're heading for a crash with with n f t s. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.840 Like there was just an article today about how what 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.920 is of nfc T trading is done by like ten 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.240 percent of people, which further back because the allegations of 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.240 n f t s is that most of what's happening 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.679 isn't people actually buying them. It's people like the same 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.120 person using multiple wallets basically trying to jack up the 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.040 perceived value by throwing a bunch of other Internet money 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.160 that they already have. So these these whales who have 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.520 like a bunch of crypto gaming the system, and we've 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:50.959 seen some of it. And the biggest n f T 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.040 S salever, it was like half a billion dollars and 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.000 it was a guy selling it to himself and then 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.679 transferring it back into another wallet to try to make 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.000 it look like it was worth half a billion dollar. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.400 There's even though no one had actually really paid that 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.520 for it. Um so I and I think you know that. 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.480 And kind of what we've seen with the regulations, the 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.439 government's annance for n f t s, I think that's 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.320 a problem for them in the near future. And I 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.640 wouldn't be surprised to see this takeoff next, especially given 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.680 like the creator economy that we're seeing on like the 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:26.680 kind of thattk yeah TikTok Like, I wouldn't be surprised 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.760 if you saw a rash of big TikTok stars tokenizing themselves. 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.560 And like I'm not even sure, I'm I'm I'm sure 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.000 it would be a mix of the person making the 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.600 tokens being the one doing the scam and the person 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.560 receiving or the people buying the tokens being the one doing. Like, 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.280 I'm sure it would be a mix of different kinds 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.600 of exploitation. But it's not gonna be good, I mean, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.080 And and just like a t it's gonna make like 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.160 I don't know, fifty people super rich when they when 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.240 they first start trying it right like that, that that is 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.040 that is like when this happens, like when a TikTok 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.160 star with five million followers, when they do this, they 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.400 will make boatloads of money. It's just unclear what happens 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:08.640 after that. Yeah, well, Fleet of Mexico. Yeah, I mean 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:10.280 that would be the smart thing. That would be the 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:22.920 smart thing to do. Yeah. In this Forbes article I found, 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.240 which is a thousand times better than me, it lay 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.560 into article like even though it's written by someone I 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.800 think who's also into crypto, it's just it actually it 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.640 asks some of these questions we've been talking about UM, 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.680 and it cites David Hoffman, who's the CEO of a 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.360 of a token ized real estate platform UM, on what 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.280 he sees as some of the problems. Like what he, 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.840 as a guy who's supports aspects of this kind of thing, 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:52.120 sees is the problems with us and uh it's yeah 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.480 one sec UM Hoffman, returning to his core problem with 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.640 the personal token model model, Hoffman re emphasized that the 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.360 assured is an utility that come with some of these 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.560 tokens don't exist, for with with certain kinds of tokens 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.440 don't exist, for like these personal tokens. How risky this 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.160 investment is is completely defined by the individual. In his disclaimer, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:14.800 he's and he's talking about one of the guys who's 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.480 token himself, this guy named Kerman. In his disclaimer, he 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.360 says this is a highly risky investment and that you 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.160 could lose all your money, which is a terrible thing 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.560 to say because with personal tokens, the issuer is in 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.680 complete control over exactly how risky the investment actually is. 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.240 It's largely up to them whether there are risks or not. 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.080 Which is like a kind of illegal securities trading that 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.880 I don't think we've ever anyone's ever done. Um, Like 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:44.800 it's this, it's this fascinating new con where you're literally 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.200 the you're you're doing securities trading, but instead of it 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.720 being over a company, it's just you and technically there's 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:54.840 no consequences if you just take the money and run. 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.640 Like I don't know what kind of contract, Like you 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.120 couldn't have a contract that says that you could say, 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.320 they're that you're obligated to pay out your future earnings, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.280 but you couldn't have to work, Like that's not enforceable. 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:15.320 You can't like contractually obligate someone two to like work, 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.480 like you're allowed to quit a job. I mean, I 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:20.840 guess you could put penalties in it, but I don't, 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:22.640 like none of the current ones have anything. I mean, 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.439 or they could go to The other option is is 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.360 that they could go to jail for fraud if they 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.879 try to shot, if they try to not follow through 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.159 on the investment. If you say like, yeah, I I 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.240 invested in you and you said that you would do 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.119 these things, you didn't do them, Now you can go 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.240 to prison. That is the other Yeah, and I think 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.080 that will at some point, like there will be scams 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:45.680 and some of that will come in. But like, none 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:47.560 of these current ones, none of them are saying here's 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.480 my specific I'm going to make this special. It's not 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.920 like like if you like with a Patreon, right, You're 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.400 you're paying a little bit at a time on an 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:00.600 ongoing basis for a very clear product. Generally is so 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.720 far these aren't that they're just like I'm gonna try 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.640 to do something that makes money and if it does, 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.840 you get a cut of it. And that's it's so 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.359 much like there's nothing that's stopping mass Metch from saying 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.959 like hey, my, my and my attempt didn't work. Uh 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.960 so we're done. No no money for anybody like that, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.080 and I you're not. There's no accounting requirements, there's no 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.080 there's a bunch of ways in which it's sucked up 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.960 from a financial except it's not it's not his it's 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.199 not it's not you're not investing in his business. You're 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.240 nesting in him. So even even if even if he 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:34.960 takes another job, they're still it seems to be contractually 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:39.119 obligated to still get that of his income. Yes, And 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:40.920 I think that's that's the area in which I think 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.560 it would be abusive for the person being token ized, 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:48.520 because most people aren't gonna like most people don't make 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.480 that much money. So they raise someone manages to like 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.680 raise five or ten grand and then just winds up 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.040 for years giving a cut of their income that winds 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.400 up being more than they got initially to a bunch 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.080 of like it's almost like a like a payday loan 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:07.080 that you've blockchain. Yeah you know, Okay, so this is 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.280 this is what I'm thinking about. Because so there's I 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.200 don't know if I talked about this on the show, 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.720 but there's a thing in China where they've been kind 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.959 of cracking down it now for starting nineteen like literally 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.320 every single app like had a like had a pet 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.560 a loan thing in it, so like like your flashlight 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.840 app would have would offer you a pet a loan 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.120 and it was basically it was yeah, they were there. 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.000 Was originally tied in with like people who buy um, 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:33.480 you know, I was originally tied in with like like 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.360 the the services that like their version of Amazon for example, 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.520 would like, oh, hey, we'll give you a loan so 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.760 you can buy this, you can order fried chicken. And 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.520 I was always wondering when this would come to the US, 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.600 and I think it might never hope, I mean hopefully 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:49.960 it never does. And I think it might not just 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:53.439 because of how like powerful our petty loan industry is. 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.320 But it's like we've we've now invented. It seems like 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:01.040 it's gonna happen, but like dumber, like our our version 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.560 of it is like this thing which is just you know, 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.879 it's what what if what if paid a loans but 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.399 on the blockchain? Except you know, I mean when I 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.879 guess this is the everything you know that that we've 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.880 been getting at, is that the difference between this being 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.919 a paid a loan, and this being you scammed a 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.120 bunch of people is what the enforcement mechanism looks like. 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.520 And you know this this this comes back to some 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.639 other things I think you're interesting about this one is 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.840 that you know, so the whole the n f T 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.639 drift right is based on convincing people that there's value 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:43.000 in ownership right there, like ownership itself has inherently has value. 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.800 And yeah, but but this this is not that this 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:47.560 is this is you know, this is going back to 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.639 know your value value is built on labor, right well, yeah, 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.040