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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Hudcast. This is a crypto podcast where

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Speaker 1: we talk about the best n f T investments and

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Speaker 1: how you can get rich. To bro, if you just

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Speaker 1: accept the wave of the future and decentralize your finance

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Speaker 1: and invest in a bank that can take all of

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Speaker 1: your money overnight and disappeared because it was really just

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Speaker 1: being run by a guy in Macedonia and he was

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Speaker 1: just a rug pole the entire time. And you lose

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Speaker 1: your life savings and you have no recourse and that's

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Speaker 1: the fucking future of investments. Bro. Hey, Bro, you're fired. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's fair. This is it could happen here podcast about

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Speaker 1: how things are bad, sometimes a podcast about how to

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Speaker 1: make them less bad. Today we're talking about the former

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Speaker 1: how things are bad, and we're we're talking about financialization

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Speaker 1: um and specifically the financialization of like human being is

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Speaker 1: in the endeavor to create art? Uh and so artis

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Speaker 1: artist a broad broad term. I mean, I said the

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Speaker 1: endeavor to I'm sure they all want to be creating art. Well,

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Speaker 1: this won't make any sense to people yet, so I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna give a brief overview. There's an article

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Speaker 1: in the Atlantic that dropped on November twenty nine, called

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Speaker 1: what Happens when You're the Investment. It's by Rex Wouldbury

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Speaker 1: Um who I hate um. So as a note, okay,

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Speaker 1: let let me just get the the the nut of

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Speaker 1: the article is, and that there's been a couple of

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Speaker 1: other articles on this guy. His name is Alex mass

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Speaker 1: mesh Um and he is a French kid, I think,

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Speaker 1: who decided to tokenize himself. And what that means is so,

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Speaker 1: like you've got the etherium blockchain, right, he basically he's

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Speaker 1: he's putting he's carving up aspects of his like potential

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Speaker 1: future earnings, and he's putting those on the Ethereum blockchain

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Speaker 1: as like tokens that people can buy. And the idea

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Speaker 1: is that this kid had wanted to like start a

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Speaker 1: business and be an entrepreneur, but he didn't have any money.

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Speaker 1: So using like on the ether blockchain, he turned himself

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Speaker 1: into tokens basically like his potential future earnings and his time.

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Speaker 1: And basically people are able to buy up coins effectively,

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Speaker 1: I mean not coins, but tokens shares. Yeah yeah, dollar

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Speaker 1: sign Alex is like the name of the token which

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Speaker 1: basically shares they're buying. He's turned himself essentially into a

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Speaker 1: publicly traded company kind of um. And holders of his

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Speaker 1: coins are like, he's splitting up fifteen percent of his

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Speaker 1: income for the next three years basically among people who

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Speaker 1: like hold his coins. And he raised like twenty grand

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Speaker 1: this way. Um. And it's not just like it's not

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Speaker 1: just his future earnings that are being kind of tokenized.

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Speaker 1: You can also use tokens to like buy retweets from him,

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Speaker 1: or one on one conversations or and here's a line

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Speaker 1: I love and introduction to someone in his network. And

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Speaker 1: and it's the overall idea because there's you can find

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Speaker 1: some other good articles. Good as an interesting word to use.

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Speaker 1: You can find other interesting, fascinating articles about this this idea,

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Speaker 1: which is like human beings tokenizing their future earning potential

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Speaker 1: um in order to uh raise money um. And And

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Speaker 1: it's uh the way this is usually sold as a

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Speaker 1: good thing. In fact, I should probably just read a

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Speaker 1: quote from this Atlantic article to give you an idea

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Speaker 1: of how uh mass measure is or of how um

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Speaker 1: um the art. The author of the article, Rex good Wouldbury,

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Speaker 1: is is trying to sell this ship. We all have

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Speaker 1: the slightly annoying friend who insists that she knew about

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Speaker 1: so and so before they were even famous. When it

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Speaker 1: comes to Taylor Swift, I'm that friend, and I'm more

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Speaker 1: than slightly annoying about it. I was a Taylor fan

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Speaker 1: in her pre fearless full on country days, years before

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Speaker 1: Conway interrupted her on stage at the v m AS.

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Speaker 1: But in our current constructive fandom, I'm treated no differently

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Speaker 1: than a fan who discovered Swift on SNL a few

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Speaker 1: weeks back. This would be different, though. If Taylor had

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Speaker 1: done what mass Measure did and turned herself into an investment,

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Speaker 1: she could have issued a social token. Whereas non fungible

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Speaker 1: tokens or n f t s are so called because

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Speaker 1: of the uniqueness of a digital asset, social tokens are fungible.

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Speaker 1: In other words, each Alex token is interchangeable with every

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Speaker 1: other Alex token, just like a dollar bill can be

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Speaker 1: traded for any other dollar bill. Say Taylor issued had

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Speaker 1: issued her own token, Let's call it a dollar signs swift,

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Speaker 1: and say she had sold dollar signed Swift to her

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Speaker 1: biggest fans. Yeah, say I was one such fan. Over time,

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Speaker 1: as Taylor's popularity grew, the value of the Swift token

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Speaker 1: would have appreciated. As an early believer, I would have

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Speaker 1: shared in the financial upside of her growing fame. The

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Speaker 1: Swift token I had brought for a hundred dollars in

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Speaker 1: two thousand seven might be worth a hundred thousand dollars today.

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Speaker 1: The Taylor Swift mini economy would serve both the singer

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Speaker 1: and early fans like me. As an artist, Taylor could

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Speaker 1: have funded her work by selling dollar signs or Swift tokens.

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Speaker 1: She might not have needed to sell ownership of her

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Speaker 1: master's and she might not have been forced to re

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Speaker 1: record her albums to take back control over her art.

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Speaker 1: Taylor's fans, for their part, would have been rewarded for

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Speaker 1: a decade of patronage. We're all evangelists for our favorite artists,

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Speaker 1: yet we capture little of the value that we helped create.

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Speaker 1: And then there's a lot that, like I find unsettling there.

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Speaker 1: One of them is the idea that, like, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: fact that I was a fan of someone earlier means

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Speaker 1: I should get some sort of reward for it, Like

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Speaker 1: I should be treated differently because I liked it earlier,

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Speaker 1: which you might recognize, like the thing that everybody has

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Speaker 1: been shipping on for like fandoms for years now, like

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Speaker 1: it's been a it's been a huge thing where like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're being an asshole if you're if you're talking about

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Speaker 1: like if you think you have some additional ownership of

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Speaker 1: Star Wars because you watched it ten years before the

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Speaker 1: fans today and so you like different stuff in it.

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Speaker 1: Like that's we all recognize that as like toxic um.

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Speaker 1: But the the whole argument of this article is that like, no,

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Speaker 1: this is how the entire future of creativity should work.

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Speaker 1: We find unsettling. And it also it also ties into

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Speaker 1: like a really concerning development in paras social relationships of

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Speaker 1: like invest in them, want to buy a conversation with

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Speaker 1: them in like this really weird way. Um And the

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Speaker 1: fact that young artists are going to be pressured into

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing is really scary. Yeah, because there's

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Speaker 1: like one of the things mass Measure did as like

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Speaker 1: um uh as an experiment, was like allow people who

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Speaker 1: had bought his tokens to make life decisions for him,

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Speaker 1: like tell him when to wake up in the morning

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Speaker 1: and whether or not to eat red meat and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. And he stated that like, well, none of

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Speaker 1: this is binding, right, Like I'll i'll I might do

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Speaker 1: what they say, but like I'm not going to do

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Speaker 1: anything crazy or whatever. But also this is like the

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Speaker 1: first iteration of this um. And I like this Atlantic article,

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Speaker 1: which I think is unhinged for reasons we'll get into,

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Speaker 1: but it's purely talking about like, look at this incredibly

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Speaker 1: successful person. Imagine if they've gotten to be incredibly successful

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Speaker 1: using this method instead, and it might have like spared

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Speaker 1: them this thing. But when I keep thinking about is like, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of people, like there's no reason to

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Speaker 1: invest in them, Like, yeah, maybe if you come out

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Speaker 1: with a great song or a great video, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could get investments, And I'm sure that could work out.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, Like Taylor Swift is a successful enough person,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she could have found a way to succeed

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Speaker 1: under that system too. But what I think will be

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Speaker 1: much more common because there's no real reason to anticipate

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Speaker 1: that the average person will have an earnings potential. If

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Speaker 1: you give them twenty grand, that's greater than twenty grand. Um,

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Speaker 1: the most likely thing is that like people just buy

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Speaker 1: shares and poor people to make them do fucked up ship.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it's gonna be How would you not how would

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Speaker 1: that not be where it goes? That's that's that's the

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Speaker 1: only way that this is going to get like used

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Speaker 1: on a large scale. People just selling themselves. People are

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Speaker 1: people are gonna use the ether blockchain to like crowdfund

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Speaker 1: and crowd uh cast a new jackass basically, like it's

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Speaker 1: going It's not going to be like a thousand Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift's all token izing themselves. It's going to be like

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Speaker 1: millions of people in the Global South issuing tokens to

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Speaker 1: like vote on whether they roll down the hill in

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Speaker 1: a barrel or in like a fucking porta potty. Like

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Speaker 1: it's just it's a nightmare to me to contemplate people

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Speaker 1: actually adopting this. You know, there's there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: really like the thing I think is the most incredible

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Speaker 1: part about this is that like, okay, so like it

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Speaker 1: basically doesn't matter what like economic theory you used to

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Speaker 1: look at it. It's like every single one of them

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Speaker 1: tells you something just like absolutely fucked about it. And

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Speaker 1: like you know, because because I mean they're there, there's

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Speaker 1: there's there's some extent to which I look at this

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Speaker 1: and it's like this isn't that much different than the fact,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like, okay, so you're paying someone to

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Speaker 1: do whatever you want, but like, okay, like that's not

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Speaker 1: that much different than just a job, right, Like it's

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Speaker 1: it's not it's not inherently that much different than the

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Speaker 1: fact that everyone is forced to just do wage labor.

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Speaker 1: But also, like there's one was interesting things to me

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Speaker 1: that I thought about this when I was what I

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Speaker 1: was reading this was so, do you just know what

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Speaker 1: capitalization is? Yeah? Yeah, so this is this is just

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Speaker 1: capitalizing a person, right, Like it's literally taking a person

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Speaker 1: public effect put putting, turning them into like a tradeable

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Speaker 1: share and that's like an investment. Yeah, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is all one of the things that like a Forbes

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Speaker 1: article I found points like this is another kind of

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Speaker 1: unregulated securities training. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what's what's interesting

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Speaker 1: to me about it is that like, okay, so you know,

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Speaker 1: this is also already how accounting wise, every corporation sees

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Speaker 1: a person, right like every every every every person in

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Speaker 1: the asset book is you know, yeah, you know, like

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Speaker 1: a wage is just capitalization, right, It's like how much

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Speaker 1: will you pay now for this much money? Later you

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Speaker 1: could But it's like people are doing it to themselves now,

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Speaker 1: which is like this, Yeah, you could argue that like

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Speaker 1: elements of this or how like banks treat you when

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Speaker 1: you get a mortgage right um like, but but also

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Speaker 1: that's much more rigorous and limited, like it has like

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Speaker 1: regulations and it has for how those things work. It's

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Speaker 1: not some like twelve year old getting like like going

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Speaker 1: on to coin base and buying part of you as

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Speaker 1: a joke with your with like his dad's money, right like,

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Speaker 1: because it's like yeah, because what if it's like, there's

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Speaker 1: no law against a seventeen year old I guess if

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Speaker 1: maybe their parents may need to consent, but there's no

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Speaker 1: law against the seventeen year old getting a facial tattoo

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Speaker 1: of like the doors of a concentration camp on their face.

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Speaker 1: But what if some kid tokenizes himself for forty grand

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Speaker 1: so he can drop an EP and that's what like

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Speaker 1: a bunch of four channers who buy up his his

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Speaker 1: shares want him to do um. And maybe the fucking

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Speaker 1: kid does that because he knows it's going to get him,

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Speaker 1: because his brain is not done and he knows it's

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Speaker 1: going to get him. A bunch of fucking social media

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Speaker 1: clouds and like it's there's a lot of and there's

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Speaker 1: no way to regulate that, Like it's just an inherently

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Speaker 1: toxic proposition that I don't think the government would. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what side of this the government would even

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Speaker 1: step in on, Like what is the regulation of people

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Speaker 1: deciding I'm letting random strangers who pay me money vote

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Speaker 1: on what I do with my life? What do you

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Speaker 1: ever think? It reminds me of a lot is like

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Speaker 1: the micro lending stuff from the nineties, where it was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll like empower these people by we'll go in and uh,

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Speaker 1: We're going to give them like a small amount of

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Speaker 1: money and they have to pay back. And it was

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Speaker 1: like you know, and and all of the same stuff

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Speaker 1: that you're reading, all the arguments about why this is

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Speaker 1: a good thing are exactly the same as the micro

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Speaker 1: lending ones and that stuff. You know. There there were

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Speaker 1: two ways it turned out. One was basically you get

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Speaker 1: the scenario where both sides are scamming each other, where

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Speaker 1: you know, all the people who are getting these micro launchers,

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Speaker 1: they're just taking the money and walking right like that's

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Speaker 1: you know that their their their things. Oh this is

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Speaker 1: I can just get money like this and we can

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Speaker 1: just keep I just keep not paying it back, and

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Speaker 1: so I'm scamming them. But then on the other side,

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Speaker 1: you have these people who are like, oh cool, I

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Speaker 1: can give this person this loan and turn them into

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Speaker 1: a debt pion and it and you know, and and

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Speaker 1: the the the really depressing side about it is so

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Speaker 1: that the people who couldn't get away, like I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're literally reduced debt pions. And you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: there's a huge wave of suicides in India. Probably don't

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Speaker 1: say example is wave of suicides people drinking past a

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Speaker 1: side because they couldn't pay off these loans and so

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Speaker 1: and and the thing that's different about this is that

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Speaker 1: like I mean, ay, you're doing it to yourself. But

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Speaker 1: then be again, there's no regulation. But that also means

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Speaker 1: there isn't any way to force someone to do what

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Speaker 1: you say you're gonna It's it's unclear how it's going

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Speaker 1: to be enforced. And the other thing that is not

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Speaker 1: clear is like what does losses look like? Like what

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Speaker 1: what happens when someone like you cannot make back on

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Speaker 1: like an investment, But if the investment is a person,

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Speaker 1: how does that work? And if someone's contractually obligated to

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Speaker 1: give a certain share of their income. What happens when

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Speaker 1: there's not enough income for that, like, like you know,

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Speaker 1: so those types of things. Yeah, I mean there's no

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Speaker 1: answer to that. Uh, And there's nobody like the money

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Speaker 1: that's going to be whatever made in this is going

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Speaker 1: to be made before anyone steps into to try to

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Speaker 1: answer that. If anyone ever does, like, um, it's it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be the next because I think we're I think

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Speaker 1: we're heading for a crash with with n f t s.

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Speaker 1: Like there was just an article today about how what

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Speaker 1: is of nfc T trading is done by like ten

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Speaker 1: percent of people, which further back because the allegations of

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Speaker 1: n f t s is that most of what's happening

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Speaker 1: isn't people actually buying them. It's people like the same

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Speaker 1: person using multiple wallets basically trying to jack up the

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Speaker 1: perceived value by throwing a bunch of other Internet money

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Speaker 1: that they already have. So these these whales who have

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Speaker 1: like a bunch of crypto gaming the system, and we've

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Speaker 1: seen some of it. And the biggest n f T

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Speaker 1: S salever, it was like half a billion dollars and

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Speaker 1: it was a guy selling it to himself and then

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Speaker 1: transferring it back into another wallet to try to make

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Speaker 1: it look like it was worth half a billion dollar.

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Speaker 1: There's even though no one had actually really paid that

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Speaker 1: for it. Um so I and I think you know that.

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Speaker 1: And kind of what we've seen with the regulations, the

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Speaker 1: government's annance for n f t s, I think that's

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Speaker 1: a problem for them in the near future. And I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised to see this takeoff next, especially given

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Speaker 1: like the creator economy that we're seeing on like the

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Speaker 1: kind of thattk yeah TikTok Like, I wouldn't be surprised

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Speaker 1: if you saw a rash of big TikTok stars tokenizing themselves.

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Speaker 1: And like I'm not even sure, I'm I'm I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it would be a mix of the person making the

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Speaker 1: tokens being the one doing the scam and the person

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Speaker 1: receiving or the people buying the tokens being the one doing. Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it would be a mix of different kinds

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Speaker 1: of exploitation. But it's not gonna be good, I mean,

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Speaker 1: And and just like a t it's gonna make like

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Speaker 1: I don't know, fifty people super rich when they when

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Speaker 1: they first start trying it right like that, that that is

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Speaker 1: that is like when this happens, like when a TikTok

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Speaker 1: star with five million followers, when they do this, they

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Speaker 1: will make boatloads of money. It's just unclear what happens

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Speaker 1: after that. Yeah, well, Fleet of Mexico. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: that would be the smart thing. That would be the

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Speaker 1: smart thing to do. Yeah. In this Forbes article I found,

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Speaker 1: which is a thousand times better than me, it lay

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Speaker 1: into article like even though it's written by someone I

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Speaker 1: think who's also into crypto, it's just it actually it

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Speaker 1: asks some of these questions we've been talking about UM,

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Speaker 1: and it cites David Hoffman, who's the CEO of a

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Speaker 1: of a token ized real estate platform UM, on what

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Speaker 1: he sees as some of the problems. Like what he,

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Speaker 1: as a guy who's supports aspects of this kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: sees is the problems with us and uh it's yeah

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Speaker 1: one sec UM Hoffman, returning to his core problem with

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Speaker 1: the personal token model model, Hoffman re emphasized that the

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Speaker 1: assured is an utility that come with some of these

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Speaker 1: tokens don't exist, for with with certain kinds of tokens

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Speaker 1: don't exist, for like these personal tokens. How risky this

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Speaker 1: investment is is completely defined by the individual. In his disclaimer,

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Speaker 1: he's and he's talking about one of the guys who's

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Speaker 1: token himself, this guy named Kerman. In his disclaimer, he

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Speaker 1: says this is a highly risky investment and that you

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Speaker 1: could lose all your money, which is a terrible thing

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Speaker 1: to say because with personal tokens, the issuer is in

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Speaker 1: complete control over exactly how risky the investment actually is.

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Speaker 1: It's largely up to them whether there are risks or not.

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Speaker 1: Which is like a kind of illegal securities trading that

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Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever anyone's ever done. Um, Like

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Speaker 1: it's this, it's this fascinating new con where you're literally

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Speaker 1: the you're you're doing securities trading, but instead of it

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Speaker 1: being over a company, it's just you and technically there's

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Speaker 1: no consequences if you just take the money and run.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't know what kind of contract, Like you

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Speaker 1: couldn't have a contract that says that you could say,

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Speaker 1: they're that you're obligated to pay out your future earnings,

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Speaker 1: but you couldn't have to work, Like that's not enforceable.

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Speaker 1: You can't like contractually obligate someone two to like work,

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Speaker 1: like you're allowed to quit a job. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess you could put penalties in it, but I don't,

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Speaker 1: like none of the current ones have anything. I mean,

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Speaker 1: or they could go to The other option is is

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Speaker 1: that they could go to jail for fraud if they

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Speaker 1: try to shot, if they try to not follow through

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Speaker 1: on the investment. If you say like, yeah, I I

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Speaker 1: invested in you and you said that you would do

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Speaker 1: these things, you didn't do them, Now you can go

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Speaker 1: to prison. That is the other Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: that will at some point, like there will be scams

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Speaker 1: and some of that will come in. But like, none

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Speaker 1: of these current ones, none of them are saying here's

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Speaker 1: my specific I'm going to make this special. It's not

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Speaker 1: like like if you like with a Patreon, right, You're

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Speaker 1: you're paying a little bit at a time on an

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Speaker 1: ongoing basis for a very clear product. Generally is so

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Speaker 1: far these aren't that they're just like I'm gonna try

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Speaker 1: to do something that makes money and if it does,

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Speaker 1: you get a cut of it. And that's it's so

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Speaker 1: much like there's nothing that's stopping mass Metch from saying

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Speaker 1: like hey, my, my and my attempt didn't work. Uh

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Speaker 1: so we're done. No no money for anybody like that,

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Speaker 1: and I you're not. There's no accounting requirements, there's no

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Speaker 1: there's a bunch of ways in which it's sucked up

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Speaker 1: from a financial except it's not it's not his it's

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Speaker 1: not it's not you're not investing in his business. You're

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Speaker 1: nesting in him. So even even if even if he

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Speaker 1: takes another job, they're still it seems to be contractually

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Speaker 1: obligated to still get that of his income. Yes, And

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's the area in which I think

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Speaker 1: it would be abusive for the person being token ized,

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Speaker 1: because most people aren't gonna like most people don't make

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Speaker 1: that much money. So they raise someone manages to like

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Speaker 1: raise five or ten grand and then just winds up

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Speaker 1: for years giving a cut of their income that winds

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Speaker 1: up being more than they got initially to a bunch

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Speaker 1: of like it's almost like a like a payday loan

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Speaker 1: that you've blockchain. Yeah you know, Okay, so this is

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Speaker 1: this is what I'm thinking about. Because so there's I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I talked about this on the show,

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Speaker 1: but there's a thing in China where they've been kind

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Speaker 1: of cracking down it now for starting nineteen like literally

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Speaker 1: every single app like had a like had a pet

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Speaker 1: a loan thing in it, so like like your flashlight

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Speaker 1: app would have would offer you a pet a loan

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Speaker 1: and it was basically it was yeah, they were there.

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Speaker 1: Was originally tied in with like people who buy um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was originally tied in with like like

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Speaker 1: the the services that like their version of Amazon for example,

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Speaker 1: would like, oh, hey, we'll give you a loan so

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Speaker 1: you can buy this, you can order fried chicken. And

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Speaker 1: I was always wondering when this would come to the US,

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Speaker 1: and I think it might never hope, I mean hopefully

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Speaker 1: it never does. And I think it might not just

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Speaker 1: because of how like powerful our petty loan industry is.

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Speaker 1: But it's like we've we've now invented. It seems like

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Speaker 1: it's gonna happen, but like dumber, like our our version

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Speaker 1: of it is like this thing which is just you know,

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Speaker 1: it's what what if what if paid a loans but

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Speaker 1: on the blockchain? Except you know, I mean when I

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Speaker 1: guess this is the everything you know that that we've

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Speaker 1: been getting at, is that the difference between this being

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Speaker 1: a paid a loan, and this being you scammed a

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Speaker 1: bunch of people is what the enforcement mechanism looks like.

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Speaker 1: And you know this this this comes back to some

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Speaker 1: other things I think you're interesting about this one is

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Speaker 1: that you know, so the whole the n f T

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Speaker 1: drift right is based on convincing people that there's value

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Speaker 1: in ownership right there, like ownership itself has inherently has value.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, but but this this is not that this

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Speaker 1: is this is you know, this is going back to

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Speaker 1: know your value value is built on labor, right well, yeah,

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00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: it's like labor and like like personhood, like like you

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Speaker 1: as a personal brand is the thing that they're trying

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Speaker 1: to get at it. And the thing the thing that's

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Speaker 1: missing here though, is that in order for like you know,

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Speaker 1: in order for like labor to produce value right in

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Speaker 1: this way, there has to be like there has to

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Speaker 1: be a way for you to force them to pay

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00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 1: you like you need you need coercion for it. And

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Speaker 1: if there's no coercion, then you know, you just take

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Speaker 1: a bunch of money and leave. And and that that

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Speaker 1: I think is like this this is going to be

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Speaker 1: the battle over like if this becomes a thing it's

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Speaker 1: going to be you know, the people who buy these

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Speaker 1: things are gonna wind up like trying to you know,

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Speaker 1: I think they're gonna be the ones you try to

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Speaker 1: put your regulation because they're gonna you know, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: go in. They're gonna be I want to get my

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Speaker 1: money back, and that could end really really really badly,

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Speaker 1: right if you know, I mean it probably will. I like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how popular I think this will be

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Speaker 1: because I think that I hope this is a maybe

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Speaker 1: if there'd never been like a Patreon or something, but

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Speaker 1: the actual use case of this seems to already be

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Speaker 1: well served by the existing capitalist infrastructure. Like people, I

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Speaker 1: think more people wanted back a creator's Patreon than they

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Speaker 1: want to like own pieces of a person's time and

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Speaker 1: earning potential like that. That seems like a more niche

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Speaker 1: and weird desire to people than just like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: these guys make a video I like every week, so

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Speaker 1: I'll throw them three dollars. Well, I think I think

431
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 1: the difference though, is that pittureon money gets you money

432
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: for normal people. This gets you money from like tech bros.

433
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: And that Yeah that's always yeah, it's it's a grift

434
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: designed to And I want to dive back into this

435
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: Atlantic article because it's so bad in such a comprehensive

436
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: way that I think it deserves analysis. That's what put

437
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 1: a pin in what you said. But I want to

438
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: start with, like how the person writing this this Rex motherfucker,

439
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: like his his concept of the the history of the Internet. Um,

440
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: because it's completely wrong. Quote. We're on the precipice of

441
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: the third era of the Web. The Web's first era

442
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: was about information flowing freely. Think Google giving you access

443
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: to the world's knowledge. Most of us were passive consumers

444
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: in this era. The second era was the social web Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.

445
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: People began to create their own content, and that content

446
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: became the lifeblood of the big platforms. We became active participants,

447
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 1: but the platforms devoured all the profits. The promise of

448
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: the Internet and the Internet was to erase the gatekeepers.

449
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: Instead of waiting for a record label to sign you,

450
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: you could share your music on Spotify, instead of asking

451
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: a publication to share your words. You could tweet instead

452
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: of being tapped by a studio execut You could become

453
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: a YouTuber. What happened is that these platforms became the

454
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: new gatekeepers. The third era of the web is about

455
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,239
Speaker 1: writing the ship. Social capital becomes economic capital. Value no

456
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: longer accumulates to brokers and intermediaries. That's number one, completely wrong.

457
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 1: But one thing. Yeah, the first era of the Internet,

458
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: I would say, was about the idea that information should

459
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: flow freely. And Google came in like a decade or

460
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: more into that period. Like I had been on the

461
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: Internet five years before Google hopped into that ship, and

462
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: Google was actually the start of of the end of

463
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: that period um And it's it's the idea that, like

464
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: the social web, was people creating their own content. Most

465
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: of the social web's initial capital, and like all of

466
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: its initial money, came from taking content that people were

467
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: being paid to make on legacy platforms that had existed

468
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: before social media, taking that content, putting it on social media,

469
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: and then monetizing that without paying money back to the

470
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: people had made the content. The money in social media

471
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 1: did not initially come from people making their own content,

472
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: and the way that they mean it, like, yeah, you

473
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: at college humor or whatever, We're making your own content

474
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: and sharing it on social media. But you've been doing

475
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: that before social media. Social media just actually made it

476
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 1: less profitable eventually. Like, the way he summarizes this is

477
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: so wrong because what the social web actually did. And

478
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: the other thing I'd argue is that the first era

479
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: of the Internet, the like early days when things are

480
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: happening on like forums and weird little angel fire websites

481
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: and like even my Space, um, which I think is

482
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: kind of my Space, kind of straddles the first in

483
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: second eras uh, that was fundamentally much more an era

484
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: of people creating their own content, because the the lifeblood

485
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 1: of uh social media today isn't people really making their

486
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: own content, it's people reacting to content that other people made. Um.

487
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: And again it just shows the fact that he's he's

488
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: summarizing it this way in a way that I think

489
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: is so wrong and inaccurate to how things actually developed. Uh.

490
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: Is characteristic of his attitude towards this stuff, where he's

491
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: kind of seeing the only real meaningful evolutions in in

492
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: in the Internet through the corporations that monetized it. Um,

493
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: which is just telling of like how this guy actually

494
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: sees the way the Internet has developed. And you will

495
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: not be surprised to know, Uh, this motherfucker is an

496
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: investor at Index Ventures. Um. Yeah, Like he's he's he's

497
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: a guy who's business is capitalizing things, um, and so

498
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: that's the only way he sees the development of the Internet,

499
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: even though that's not the accurate way of looking at

500
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: how the Internet evolved. And I think I think that

501
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: there's one more really important thing that he leaves out here,

502
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,239
Speaker 1: which is that because you know, like we're talking, oh,

503
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: this is the third age of the Internet, Like no,

504
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: the third day of the Internet started like I don't know,

505
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: the mid early mid tends. When I would say when

506
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: gamer Gate hit is when I would I would I mean,

507
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: it's going to be a little off, I depend it

508
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: depends what it depends what you mean by age. So

509
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: one of my friends worst in advertising, and he was

510
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: talking about this where you know, can we can we

511
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: can talk about like gammer Gate in the sort of

512
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: fascist moles, but there was something else happening back end,

513
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: which was the Internet of Things stuff and the Internet

514
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: things stuff like you know, like nobody it's kind of

515
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: a I don't know, like I think we mostly think

516
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: about it's like it's kind of a joke or like

517
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: it just sucks, But really what it was was that

518
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: that that was the period in which people figured out

519
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: that the thing that the actual money and be made

520
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: on the Internet was some selling people's personal information and

521
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: that and there and and the Internet things like just dramatic,

522
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: like just indescribably increased the amount of data that you

523
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: could extract from people. And that that was that's the

524
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: actual that was the actual change of like like that

525
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: that that's that's that's the thirty of the Internet, and

526
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: that the earth of the Internet will last basically for

527
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: everyone until we destroy it, which is that you know,

528
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: the commodity is just all of all of the information

529
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: about who you are, where you go, like what you buy,

530
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: who you talk to. That just being sold off to

531
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: two advertisers is you know, the thing that he's very

532
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: very carefully not talking about and instead focusing on, Oh,

533
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: it was users creating content. And it's like no, they

534
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: the internet just they they sold spying on the entire world. Yeah,

535
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: And I think there's there's two good ways to to

536
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: divide the Internet into ages, and the ages would be

537
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: slightly different each way. One is kind of how you're

538
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: doing it is the way in which it was monetized, Right,

539
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: That's that's that's one way too. And then if that's

540
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: the case it's going to start with, it was not

541
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: at all. It was an entirely public project and everybody

542
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: on it was on it through like a university, and

543
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: like people did not pay to access it. Other than

544
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: that you had to be at an institution or a university.

545
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: And then like we get to the kind of the

546
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: dot the era before the dot com boom and of

547
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: the dot com boom, and then like the early pre

548
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: social internet stuff like something awful and like having stumbled

549
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: upon and and whatnot, and like those sending traffic to

550
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: sites like where I used to wear, cracked and um.

551
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: And then kind of the social media, which is the

552
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: start of as you said, like the data being monitor

553
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: monetize like individuals data being the thing either that's being

554
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: directly monetized or it's being used to deliver like target

555
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: it adds to you. Um. And then there's like if

556
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: you think about it in terms of content, it's it

557
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: starts like for the first era wouldn't even involve Google

558
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: because it would be like the start of us neet

559
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: up to eternal September in nine and then you know

560
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: on from there. Um. But either way, this guy doesn't

561
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: like everything he says about the history of the Internet

562
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: is dumb. It's just a very simplified version and you

563
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: don't actually look at like the interocking systems, um. Because

564
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I don't know why he describes it

565
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: this way, because it is it is like it's accurate

566
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: if you squint and don't think about it. Um. But

567
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: it's weird because like this article is like it's four

568
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: tech bros. So I don't know why he describes it

569
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: this way because I feel like he could describe it

570
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: a lot more accurately, um if he if he wanted to. Well,

571
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: it's something I'm gonna get into. I'm gonna say this

572
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: point like twice eveniod. I'm gonna get into the neoliberalism

573
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: episodes and I'm writing, but one of one of the

574
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: key features of neoliberalisms that they lie is that the

575
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: neo liberals have to have two versions of what they believe.

576
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: They have the version that they tell everyone else, which

577
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: is completely a lie and is not what they believe

578
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: at all. And then it has they have the version

579
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: that they tell to each other, which is what they

580
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: actually believe, and they completely they contradict each other completely.

581
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: They mostly believe things. Everything they say in public is

582
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: just a complete lie, and that I think that's what

583
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: he's doing here, which is that this that like that

584
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: history of the Internet is the one you sell the

585
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: but consumption because yeah, that that's that's that's the lie

586
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: you tell people to take money from them. And then

587
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: he has a thing that he believes but which he

588
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: will not ever tell you because you know if if

589
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: if he tells you what like he actually wanted to do,

590
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: you would run screaming from the room. And you can

591
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: you can read between what he wants you to believe.

592
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: I think is made very clear by how he divides,

593
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: by the fact that when he starts like dividing up

594
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: the ages of the Internet, he says, the first one

595
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: is the time in which people wanted information to be free.

596
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: And what he's kind of saying by doing that is

597
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: saying like that was an infant stage of the Internet.

598
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: And obviously the natural evolution of the Internet is for

599
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: every single thing on it to become monetized. And because

600
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: I also believe the Internet should be every aspect of

601
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: our lives, like this is a megaverse guy or a

602
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: metaverse guy, like I think the Internet should should be

603
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: involved in every aspect of life. That means every aspect

604
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: of life should be financialized. Um, and that's extremely radical,

605
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: but it does not sound that way. When you describe

606
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: it that way, people's heads go. But like what he's

607
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: saying is deeply radical, and I think also, like again

608
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: you want to talk about like the first and not

609
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: just the early age, because the first people who kind

610
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: of built the backbone of the Internet were mostly like

611
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: very radically anti uh capitalizing on Like there was this

612
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: idea that like it absolutely should be as free as possible.

613
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: Like Steve Wozniak, the guy who functionally invented the personal computer,

614
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: had a background like as a phone freaker, like literally

615
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: literally robbing phone companies to get like free phone calls

616
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: and stuff like these, Like most of the early Internet

617
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: pioneers were like some kind of criminal um. And the

618
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: early ages of like Internet content being monetized mostly started

619
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: with people doing ship for free. Like that was how

620
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: the people who made money on it. That's how all

621
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: of my bosses and that's how fucking I got started.

622
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: Was like you would just start making ship and you

623
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,959
Speaker 1: would put it out for free, and eventually like that

624
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: would get enough traffic that you you you you draw

625
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: ads to you and whatnot, and you'd make money. But

626
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: it was always like all of the content that that

627
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: made the Internet, and all of the content creators who

628
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: are huge now mostly started um doing something like even

629
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: it was just like throwing up videos on YouTube, right

630
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: or like going on. And that's that's less the case

631
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: with the zoomers now because a lot of them got

632
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: started on at things like like Twitch, where the idea

633
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: is to from the beginning be trying to monetize yourself,

634
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: and while you're like building a brand, you're constantly monetized.

635
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: But that's a really recent change, and I actually I

636
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: find it kind of unsettling because that was I don't know,

637
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: it's a mix because I'm certainly not of the I'm

638
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: not of the of the mind that like, if someone

639
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: is asking you to do work, you should be getting

640
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: paid for it. But if you are trying to if

641
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: you are trying to like build a life as a creator,

642
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: the best way to do that creatively is to just

643
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: make the things that you think are cool and then

644
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: make like if if other people like it, you make money.

645
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: Like better things get made than that. That Like that

646
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: that is the way the best art gets made. I

647
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: think it's a few things going on here because like

648
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: the way I think, like I think Actually the reason

649
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: why he frames it this way is because he's trying

650
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: to get back to his idea of freedom. Right. He

651
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: describes like the golden age of the the Internet being information

652
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: flowing freely. He thinks that the blockchain is a new

653
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: version of that, So that's why he's framing it in

654
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: this way. The second thing is in terms of artists

655
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: and creators. Um. If you think about like, yeah, like

656
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: like the when the early age of what he calls

657
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: like the of what we we kind of all been

658
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: reframinged to it. Like the second area when like era

659
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: of like when social media and like content creation like

660
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: sites are a thing. That's like just use YouTube as

661
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: an example. Um. Because there was a low saturation and content,

662
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: it was easier for someone to rise up and gain

663
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: a platform. Let's say someone like Bo Burnham, right, who

664
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: started as just a kid and now is like a

665
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: very popular comedian. Um. But then YouTube instead of backing

666
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: creators like that, um, which they did a little bit,

667
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: but they did not as much. They instead started, uh,

668
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: Like the thing that happened was like, uh, YouTube really

669
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: incentivizing sharing like late night content and sharing like like

670
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: TV clips of TV shows and like using like doing

671
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: using legacy media on their platform. And that's the things

672
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 1: they really backed, that's the things they really pushed into

673
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: your feet. It's like tonight show clips. Um. So a

674
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: lot of those original original content creators kind of got

675
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: left behind and now are now like just their own

676
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: are running on their own personal brands. Some of them

677
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: use Patreon for example. But it's also it's impossible to

678
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: do this now because there's an oversaturation of content. The

679
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: only thing that's done this recently is TikTok because it

680
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: was a brand new platform. There was again a new

681
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: opportunity for a lot of kids to gain to gain

682
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: a lot of audiences really quickly. I mean, I just

683
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: I to based on what you're saying, I think that

684
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: like TikTok is the closest to how cool ship happened

685
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: on the Internet before everything go because because it is

686
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: like you're not starting from like everyone starts. I guess

687
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: knowing you could make money, but that was the same

688
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: way you start because you're like you're doing a thing,

689
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: and if that thing takes off, then there's ways to

690
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: monetize and like that. Yeah, I think that's why probably

691
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: white bar to white is so popular general. Really, growth

692
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: on TikTok is pretty Uh, it's pretty organic. It's not,

693
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: it's not it's not boosted by big brands. Uh, the

694
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: same way you know, stuff like YouTube is and now

695
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: it's probably gonna be edging in that direction. But it's

696
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: it's it's it's not, it's it's not there yet. So

697
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: and his argument in this is to get back to

698
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: just being like a small content creator getting your stuff seen.

699
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 1: His solution to this problem of like YouTube and stuff

700
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: backing like these large like light night shows and backing

701
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: like these large like corporately funded things. His solution is

702
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: that if you're a small if you're a small content creator,

703
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: you should sell yourself as an asset to other people

704
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: on the internet. Right, So, because like his his idea

705
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: is that he wants to get rid of the gate

706
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: keepers of the Internet and go back to how the

707
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: Internet was. But his solution for doing that is just

708
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: by selling you as a person brand to other people

709
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: on the internet who are like tech bro investors. So

710
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: that that's why it's framed this specific way. So I

711
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: think when we're all like talking about like why does

712
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: he describe it this way, what's all this weird stuff

713
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: going on. It's because that's how he's rationalized in his brain,

714
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: is for how what he thinks being a free artist is,

715
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: and he thinks this is going to be the new

716
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: method to get there. There's another important sort of macro

717
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: thing to think about this year, which is that the

718
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: underlying basis of all of this right is the assumption

719
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: that everyone is an entrepreneur. Is that you know, like

720
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: every everyone is doing all of their stuff at all

721
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: times because they want, you know, in order to be

722
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: a business owner. And this has been like you know, this,

723
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: this has been the great ideological victory of the right

724
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: in the last fifty years, is that they convinced everyone

725
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 1: that like every single person is you know, like you're

726
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not even temporary embarrassed Millonaire syndrome. Is

727
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: like even people who like are working jobs, right, like

728
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: working wage labor jobs, think of themselves as you know,

729
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: content creators. And a content creator, you know, is a

730
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: small business owner. And this has in a manly coercive

731
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: while I've a course or two, but corrosive effect on

732
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, anyone working together to do something because you know,

733
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: oh you're not you're not You're not a worker. You're

734
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: just like you're a content creator. You're you know, you're

735
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: a small business owner. You're like you know, you what

736
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: and and and that's you know this, this is a

737
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: very long running thing that much of incredibly posericial people

738
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: have been trying to do really since like I mean

739
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: arguably like the thirties, but the complete success of that

740
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: and the way that you know, they're they're they're selling

741
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: exactly the same thing that they were selling in like

742
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 1: the eighties, but now it's this like, you know, you're

743
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: trying to get people to do it to themselves. And

744
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: also they throw all of this like sort of nonsense

745
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: tech jargon at you to get you to sort of

746
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: like stop looking at the fact that this is just

747
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: sort of you know, this is this is this is

748
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: just the new, even worse version of everyone being a

749
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: worker who thinks that they're like, you know, also going

750
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: to be this owner someday. Yeah. I don't know, I

751
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 1: don't have anything else really to say about it other

752
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: than this, but like, I mean, this was a good

753
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: amount to say. I just think this is so I

754
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: think it's such an example of kind of the way

755
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: in which the worst people in the world are trying

756
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: to steer the internet. Um, and by steering the Internet,

757
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: steer the soul of like the human race. Um. Like

758
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: this is a vision of the future this guy is sharing.

759
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: And this article that I isn't isn't positioning itself as radical,

760
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: but includes some like deeply radical ideas about how the

761
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: world should go. And by the way, I should also

762
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: note that he's also just like blatantly wrong every time

763
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 1: he brings up a number, um, like he taught he

764
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: he points out in this article that forty six million

765
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: Americans own cryptocurrency. The real number is more likely about

766
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: one million kind of it at most, like by every

767
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: credible I have no idea where he's getting forty six

768
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: million Americans own cryptocurrency. And again, the stat just came out,

769
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: And that's part of his argument is that like, obviously

770
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: people love the blockchain and these tokens and like this

771
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: is this is inevitably going to get more and more popular.

772
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: Um And when again, the reality is that every real

773
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: thing that's happening on the on the blockchain is pretty

774
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: much versions of a security scam that the government has

775
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: just announced they're going to finally start regulating but yeah,

776
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: I wanna so that the stat the study that just

777
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: came out today was that analysis of six point one

778
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: million trades of like four point seven million in f

779
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: T s. It shows that the top ten percent of

780
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: traders were responsible for of trading um, which again is

781
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: more evidence that all that's happening is people boosting prices. Also,

782
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: the average, the vast majority, like more of an FT

783
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: sales are for less than two hundred dollars. Some of

784
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: them are for just pennies. Like what the stuff that

785
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 1: you're hearing about is all ridiculous outliers, and its outliers

786
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: specifically because people are pumping stuff up in order to

787
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: try to call on someone um. And that's the whole

788
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: basis of this guy's the structural argument, the reason that

789
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: he's attempting to our you that like there's actually desire

790
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: here and that this is in fact, the future of

791
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: the Internet is based entirely upon like numbers that are

792
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: either bad or he's or he's deliberately using he's deliberately

793
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: lying about the numbers, because there is no credible number

794
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: evidence I've ever heard that forty six million Americans currently

795
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: owned cryptocurrency or even have ever owned cryptocurrency. Yeah, and

796
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: I think the other kind of nail on the coffin

797
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: for this idea and why I don't think it's going

798
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: to catch on the same way these guys think it

799
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: think it does. And this is something he acknowledges in

800
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: the article is like not a lot of people know

801
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: how the stockic change works, like very like he he says,

802
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: I think it's like I don't know like he I

803
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: forget what number he says, but um, but he says

804
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: like not not tons of people actually use or know

805
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: what the stockic stockic changes. Um. And the reason why

806
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: Patreon was so successful and why it's so useful for

807
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: content creators is because it's a very intuitive system. It's

808
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 1: very clear how it works. It's clear what you're doing.

809
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: There's no really questions about where your money is going

810
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: or what's happening. This I don't think this is ever.

811
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: I don't think this whole personal investment thing is ever

812
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: going to actually go off because people don't understand what

813
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: the blockchain is and it's too much work to explain

814
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: it to them. Um. And just because of how much

815
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: work it is to wrap your mind around, like so

816
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: where is my money going? What do I have to

817
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: set up how does that work? That's way too much

818
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: of a headache, because in order for this to actually work,

819
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: you need this to break out of the tech bro

820
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: bubble or else this is just gonna be this small

821
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: tech bro thing of people handing over the same one

822
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: hundred dollars to all their friends in a circle, um,

823
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: which is what it is currently. And I in order

824
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: to break out of that circle, they need to get

825
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: you know, your grandmother to learn what crypto is and

826
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: how blockchains work. And that's not gonna happen. Um. So

827
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: I think that is the one other nail in the

828
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: coffin for this type of idea is like Patreon is easy.

829
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: Patreon makes sense this thing. It is not nearly as

830
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: intuitive for supporting a YouTuber you like, yeah, oh okay, cool.

831
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: I actually found evidence on where that forty six million

832
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: Americans number comes from. Yeah, so basically number one. I

833
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: found like a fucking crypto news source pointing out that,

834
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: Like when people started tweeting that forty six million Americans

835
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: is based on a study we'll talk about a second,

836
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: but like when people started tweeting about this, like the

837
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: immediate response in the bitcoin subredit was like well that's

838
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: not fucking possible. Uh. Like one of the people in

839
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: the Bitcoin subred it said, sounds very high. I don't

840
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 1: know a single person who owns it, and this says woman,

841
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: six or seven people own it. Yeah, And and it

842
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: comes from a study conducted in January by the New

843
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: York Digital Investment Group servying a thousand participants with incomes

844
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: over fifty dollars, so that that seems valid. Wait, they

845
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: just said it's over fifty This okay, this method, yeah,

846
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: this this method. You will get a few like Pew

847
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: released to studies suggesting that like six of Americans have

848
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 1: used cryptocurrency at some point, and like all of what's

849
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: coming out as kind of sketchy, all of the data,

850
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: there's like reasons to be kind of unsettled about it.

851
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: But also one of the things that you studies showed

852
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: is that the vast majority of Americans have heard of cryptocurrency, uh,

853
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: and most haven't used it, Like the vast majority have

854
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: not chosen to get involved. Like, however accurate you think

855
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: this is, Like, there's another article coming out that says

856
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,919
Speaker 1: that came out and I guess May of this year,

857
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: that's said that's based on a Gemini study, which is

858
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 1: Gemini is a crypto exchange that over fifty million Americans

859
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: are likely to buy crypto in the next year. UM,

860
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: which doesn't seem to have happened. Uh, Like, I just

861
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: don't see. There's all sorts of like weird little studies

862
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: commissioned to buy weird little groups, but it really doesn't.

863
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: It seems like it's it's again kind of part of

864
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: the grift. Like I'm not seeing a lot of rigor

865
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: in any of this. UM anyway, whatever, We've talked enough

866
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: about this ship. I just I think we all as

867
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 1: soon as we read the article were so like appalled

868
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: by it that what we should probably we talk about

869
00:43:55,239 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: this for forty five minutes. Yeah,