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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome in Everybody. Third hour of The Clay Travis and

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Speaker 2: Buck Sexton Show kicks off right now. Clay's on vacation

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Speaker 2: with the family. He popped in earlier in the show

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Speaker 2: to weigh in on the election twenty twenty Jack Smith

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Speaker 2: indictment against Trump, which we've been spending most of the

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Speaker 2: show talking about. We have Julie Kelly joining us at

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Speaker 2: the bottom of this hour to give her thoughts on

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Speaker 2: how this is going to go and specifically, who is

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Speaker 2: this judge who is going to be dealing with this

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Speaker 2: with the Trump indictment. What do we know about the

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Speaker 2: judicial process that Jay six prisoners have received, or JA

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Speaker 2: six defendants, I should say now prisoners many of them

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Speaker 2: have received, including from this judge, And give us a

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Speaker 2: sense as to how this is all going to be structured,

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Speaker 2: this ongoing legal ambush of Donald Trump to subvert the

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four election. I think we have to use

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Speaker 2: that language. This is preemptively denying the American people a

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Speaker 2: level playing field, a free and fair and open choice

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Speaker 2: as to whom they want to be the president of

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Speaker 2: the United States starting in twenty twenty four. They didn't

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Speaker 2: even wait to see if they could beat Trump and

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Speaker 2: then come up with some lie as to why it

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Speaker 2: didn't really happen, like with Russia collusion. Now they're going early.

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Speaker 2: Now they're pulling out all the stops before we even

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Speaker 2: see what the people would want, because they know that

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Speaker 2: there's a risk here for them. They know that Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden is a feeble president in every sense, and the

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Speaker 2: Democrat promise of unity and prosperity, and these are the

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Speaker 2: get the shot or you lose your job people in

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Speaker 2: this White House. They've been a nightmare. There are disa yes,

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Speaker 2: and there's I think a growing recognition of just how

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Speaker 2: absurd it would be for Joe Biden to get four

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Speaker 2: more years in office. I would hope that there's that recognition.

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Speaker 2: But absurdity is the water in which the modern Democrat swims.

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Speaker 2: This is how they operate, this is who they are.

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Speaker 2: And let me let me tell you, it's hard to

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Speaker 2: think of a more clear manifestation of this. Then they

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Speaker 2: had this. I think he's a presidential historian that they

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Speaker 2: love to find, these left wing historians who then sit

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Speaker 2: there and they say, well, I wrote a biography of

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Speaker 2: you know, Rutherford B.

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Speaker 3: Hayes.

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Speaker 2: And so now everybody has to listen to my every

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Speaker 2: word about politics in America twenty twenty three. Really not

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Speaker 2: sure that's how I feel. Not sure I care. But

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Speaker 2: nonetheless over at MSNBC, they have to get that audience

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Speaker 2: as frenzied about this indictment as they possibly can. And

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Speaker 2: that brings me to this comparison of January sixth too

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Speaker 2: you ready for it? Nine to eleven Osama Bin Laden

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Speaker 2: and Pearl Harbor, and Donald Trump is in this instance

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Speaker 2: kind of like Osama a threat to America.

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Speaker 4: Play it, Pearl Harbor.

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Speaker 5: Nineteen forty one, we were bombed, Our system was very

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Speaker 5: much in danger.

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Speaker 4: Our democracy.

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Speaker 5: Many people were getting it up and saying that, you know,

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Speaker 5: the democracy had.

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Speaker 4: Seen its last days.

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Speaker 5: Nine to eleven, two thousand and one, Osama bin Lauden

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Speaker 5: and other terrorists hated our democracy, try to destroy it.

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Speaker 4: You see where I'm going. What we see in.

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Speaker 5: This indictment is that on January sixth, twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump, just like those other threats to American democracy,

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Speaker 5: tried to destroy our system, to take away our rule

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Speaker 5: of law, came very close to doing it. To take

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Speaker 5: away our system of elections, to take away our tradition

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Speaker 5: of peaceful transfer of or to a new elected president.

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Speaker 4: It almost happened.

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Speaker 2: This is somebody on television over at MSNBC with Morning Joe,

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Speaker 2: and Joe's like, yeah, that's right, more hairspray, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He's telling everybody that this is best loss, that Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump is a threat similar to in the totality of

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Speaker 2: threats to our democracy going back over one hundred years.

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Speaker 2: He's saying that Donald Trump is in the same line

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Speaker 2: of threat as the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. And remember

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Speaker 2: the Japanese plan was to knock out the Pacific Fleet

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Speaker 2: and then continue and they allied with Nazi Germany and

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Speaker 2: they declared war on us, and you know, global domination.

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Speaker 2: There were submarines off the coast of California like they

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Speaker 2: were coming for us folks. It wasn't just a you know,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna do this thing and then we're all gonna know.

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Speaker 2: They were trying to be part of the Third Reich

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Speaker 2: plan of global domination. They became part of it, and fortunately,

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Speaker 2: you know, thank the United States Armed Forces. Japan was

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Speaker 2: unsuccessful in that goal. But wow, Pearl Harbor. Really a

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Speaker 2: couple of thousand Americans died in one day in a

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Speaker 2: sneak attack, a day that does live in infamy. And

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Speaker 2: then Osama bin Laden. Now that's one that I remember.

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Speaker 2: I remember watching in real time as the towers fell.

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Speaker 2: I remember thinking to myself, I have to get into

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Speaker 2: this fight somehow. It is why I joined the CIA.

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Speaker 2: Osama bin Laden and his his circle in Al Qaeda

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Speaker 2: wanted to get their hands on chemical and biological weapons,

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Speaker 2: wanted to get their hands on a nuclear weapon to

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Speaker 2: destroy an American city. This person is going on television

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Speaker 2: comparing Donald Trump to Osama bin Laden as a threat

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Speaker 2: to this country, and the audience is clapping, and the

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Speaker 2: hosts are you know, are just grinning and oh yes,

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Speaker 2: look look at the scholar, just like bin Laden. Bin

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Speaker 2: Laden had his maniacs fly planes into buildings, killed almost

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Speaker 2: three thousand in a day, and wanted to continue. There

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Speaker 2: were more. I was in the CIA's counter Terrorism Center.

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Speaker 2: There were all kinds of plots, more planes to take down,

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Speaker 2: more terrorist attacks. A lot of them did happen, but

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Speaker 2: a lot of them were defeated in it. In advance.

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Speaker 2: Wanted to destroy our society by any means possible. Would

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Speaker 2: have been happy to kill millions of us if he

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Speaker 2: could have Bin Laden and Zawahiary and the rest. And

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Speaker 2: this guy's comparing and but then we're gonna have over

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Speaker 2: at CNN. Trump is beyond the pale. Look what he

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Speaker 2: said in this truth social post. Trump is beyond the pale.

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Speaker 2: They're comparing Trump to Bin Lauden. They've compared him to Hitler.

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Speaker 2: They need to get a grip. They are in the

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Speaker 2: grips of masses state. This has now become the great

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Speaker 2: Democrat delusion, this self propagating myth that Donald Trump is

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Speaker 2: this horrifying threat to the future of the country, when

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Speaker 2: about half the country is like, actually did a good job.

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Speaker 2: I mean some people say did an amazing job, but

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Speaker 2: people say did a good job. I voted for him again,

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Speaker 2: and I can assure you I would not vote for

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Speaker 2: I would not have voted for Bin Laden as president

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Speaker 2: for heaven's sake. So what's with these crazy comparisons, Because

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Speaker 2: they have to find a way to justify emotionally, psychologically,

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Speaker 2: and politically the extreme nature of what they have done.

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Speaker 2: At some level, there has to be a recognition they're

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Speaker 2: the ones who have done the crazy unprecedented things here

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Speaker 2: now multiple times over. Indicting a leading presidential candidate, and

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Speaker 2: also the fact that he's a former president shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: lost on all of us either in this or shouldn't

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Speaker 2: lost in the conversation. We don't do this because what

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Speaker 2: we never want to have is a system. And this

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Speaker 2: I've been in, I've been deployed to, I've been in

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Speaker 2: countries where this is the case. You lose that election,

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Speaker 2: you're going to prison. You defy the regime and run

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Speaker 2: against them in an election, you're going to prison. Once

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Speaker 2: that happens, it's all over, folks, Because the checks and balances,

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Speaker 2: the laws that are in place, the existence of the

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Speaker 2: rules that are supposed to give us common principles and

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Speaker 2: common ground to come together, all of that, all of

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Speaker 2: that just fades away. It turns into might makes right.

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Speaker 2: It turns into whatever we want, we have the power

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Speaker 2: to do. Therefore we shall do. Because here's the question,

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Speaker 2: and like I said, we'll talk to Julie Kelly about

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Speaker 2: some of this coming up in a few minutes. Here's

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Speaker 2: the part of this that I want anyone who is

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Speaker 2: skeptical of the gravity of this moment for our legal system,

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Speaker 2: for our political system and for our country, meaning the

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Speaker 2: prosecution of Trump with this multiple now multiple indictments, you

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Speaker 2: think they're going to stop at Trump. This is the

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Speaker 2: part of it that I This is why I keep

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Speaker 2: going back in history to show. This is why I

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Speaker 2: rattle off these names, Bob McDonald, Chris Christy, Scott Walker,

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Speaker 2: Rick Perry. I mean there's others. I can't even think of.

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Speaker 2: Ted Stevens. I said before they criminalize politics. They've been

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Speaker 2: growing in boldness to do this over a number of years.

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Speaker 2: Goes back to the Bush administration. As I said, it

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Speaker 2: really started with the Special Council witch hunt of the

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Speaker 2: leaked name. They knew it was linked, to know it

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Speaker 2: was an accident, no crime. Oh but let's just try

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Speaker 2: to get people in the White House locked up for it. Anyway, none,

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Speaker 2: We'll make movies, horrible movies about this is preposterous. That

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Speaker 2: was what was that Special Counsel Pat Fitzgerald. Right, look

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Speaker 2: at that guy's record.

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Speaker 6: That's what he does.

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Speaker 2: He goes after He goes after people, goes after people

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Speaker 2: for political reasons. So I bring all that up not

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Speaker 2: just to show you the progression, but now to get

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Speaker 2: to what comes next. They've done this to Trump? Does

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Speaker 2: anyone believe go look at some when when Ron DeSantis

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Speaker 2: was surging it was months ago, I know, but when

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Speaker 2: he was surging in the polls, when it looked like

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Speaker 2: he may be a real challenge in this primary to Trump,

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Speaker 2: you started to see these articles It's say, oh, Ron

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Speaker 2: de Santis is an even bigger threat than Donald Trump is.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that was going to go away? I mean,

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Speaker 2: if let's just say, in an alternate, alternate universe here,

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Speaker 2: you know, DeSantis was at fifty five percent right now,

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Speaker 2: do you think that Do you think the Democrats would

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Speaker 2: be saying, oh, gosh, you know, we are a more

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Speaker 2: a more mainstream politician that we can you know, we

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Speaker 2: can work with this guy. No, oh, they'd be saying,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, you know, he's a white nationalist. He's horrible,

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Speaker 2: he's you know, worse, a more effective fascist than Trump.

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Speaker 2: They were preparing that. Why does it matter because the

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Speaker 2: precedent of going after Trump in this way is going

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Speaker 2: to be used again. Why does it matter? Because when

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Speaker 2: they say on MSNBC that Trump is in the same

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Speaker 2: league as Bin Laden as threats to this country, and

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Speaker 2: they're not horribly embarrassed. I mean, you know, morning Joe

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Speaker 2: and Mikah should resign, but the you know it's not

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Speaker 2: gonna happen.

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Speaker 3: They'll never do that.

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Speaker 2: I think they're amazing if they can say that and

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Speaker 2: not feel so foolish and not feel so humiliated that

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Speaker 2: there's an extreme embarrassment and an apology afterwards, which they

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Speaker 2: think that they did a great job. What makes you

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Speaker 2: think that this is going to end with Trump? And

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Speaker 2: this is why when Trump has said it resonates with

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Speaker 2: so many people. You think they're coming for me speaking

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Speaker 2: as Trump, but really I'm just standing between them and you.

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Speaker 2: That's true of future Republican presidential contenders. As I've said,

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Speaker 2: and I've been ringing the alarm about this before I

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Speaker 2: teamed up with Clay on my own show. I was

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Speaker 2: ringing the alarm about this four years. They are weaponizing

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Speaker 2: the law for purposes of political power. And I can

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Speaker 2: take you through this. Is there a Democrat progression that's similar. No,

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Speaker 2: In fact, what you see is the opposite, which is

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Speaker 2: the abandonment of the rule of law to help Democrats

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Speaker 2: stay in office or to win elections, whether it's Hillary

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Speaker 2: Clinton or Hunter Biden recently, or I could sit here

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Speaker 2: if I gave it five minutes, thought I'd come with

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Speaker 2: all kinds of cases where democrats, you know, they get

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Speaker 2: away with it. They get away with it. Bill Clinton

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Speaker 2: got away with it. The Clinton Foundation, with Hillary and Bill,

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Speaker 2: they got away with it. So, my friends, this is

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Speaker 2: a very serious moment for the country, and it's just

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Speaker 2: the beginning. I can't say we're gonna wake up tomorrow

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Speaker 2: and this nightmare is over. This is just starting. But

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Speaker 2: I do think that what this has shown, and whatever

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Speaker 2: one can see from it, if they think it through, clearly,

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Speaker 2: this is the beginning of a new era of wielding

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Speaker 2: power in this country for a winner, take all, burn

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Speaker 2: it all to the ground, as long as we are

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Speaker 2: in charge approach. And that's what these indictments against Trump represent.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I know the people that are coming

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Speaker 2: out and speaking out against this. Some of the legal

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Speaker 2: experts that we've had on this show, if they thought

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Speaker 2: that Donald Trump had done something egregious and broken the

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Speaker 2: law in doing so, they would say so. But instead,

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Speaker 2: the people that I respect most on the right, who

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Speaker 2: are the most well versed in constitutional law and just

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Speaker 2: in federal statute, are saying this is a legal abomination,

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Speaker 2: and that is what we have to remember as we

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Speaker 2: go forward here and now we can look at whether

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Speaker 2: we're able to actually win still, which is a big

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Speaker 2: question mark. I know vivek Ramaswami is in Nashville, and

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Speaker 2: I believe he is holding a press conference as we

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Speaker 2: speak about the transgender terrorist manifesto from the Nashville Covenant

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Speaker 2: School shooting. So I agree with Vivick that this should

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Speaker 2: be released. Many of you know I've been saying this

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Speaker 2: from the beginning. I've also said that they will hide

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Speaker 2: this and everywhere they can. We'll come back to that

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Speaker 2: in a moment. And also we have Julie Kelly with

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Speaker 2: us to get into some of the what comes next

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Speaker 2: after this indictment. That's what I really want to focus

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Speaker 1: The Torch of Truth past and still lit every day

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Speaker 1: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, Welcome back to Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.

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Speaker 2: A big day in the news, as you all know,

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Speaker 2: a troubling day for this country and one that will

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Speaker 2: go down in the history books. I think ignominiously. Our friend,

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Speaker 2: our co host, our main man, Clay Travis, steps away

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Speaker 2: from his vacation with his family to bring you his

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Speaker 2: thoughts on this.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: Mister Clay, I knew you'd come back.

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Speaker 7: What's going on, Well, this is what happens, right Like

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Speaker 7: I go on vacation, Trump gets indicted and I'll be

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Speaker 7: back on Monday. But just like what happened the last

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Speaker 7: time I was on vacation, Trump got indicted down in Miami,

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Speaker 7: and now this happens obviously on Tuesday evening. And look

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Speaker 7: to me, Buck, I expected so much more after all

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Speaker 7: of the all of the lead up to what Jack

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Speaker 7: Smith was going to be able to get Donald Trump for.

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Speaker 7: I actually think the Miami case, which I don't believe

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Speaker 7: we'll get any conviction on because I don't think a

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Speaker 7: South Florida jury is going to convict Trump, is way

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Speaker 7: more legitimate than what he has charged Trump with associated

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Speaker 7: with January sixth. And in particular, Buck, what jumps out

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Speaker 7: to me is I read the indictment yesterday and as

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Speaker 7: I still continue to think about it on Wednesday, is

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Speaker 7: essentially Jack Smith has tried to criminalize legal advice. And

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Speaker 7: for people out there who don't understand this, I think

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Speaker 7: it's really important lawyers debate whether cases make.

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Speaker 2: Sense all the time.

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Speaker 6: Buck.

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Speaker 2: This is not uncommon.

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Speaker 7: If you have a room full of lawyers, you can

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Speaker 7: get seven eight different opinions from seven or eight different

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Speaker 7: lawyers about whether a case makes sense or not. And

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Speaker 7: to me, the essence of this, again at its pure distillation,

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Speaker 7: is they changed the law to try to eliminate any

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Speaker 7: uncertainty surrounding what the vice president's role was when it

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Speaker 7: came to receiving the electoral votes. Buck, if you knew

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Speaker 7: beyond a shadow of a doubt that this legal claim

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Speaker 7: had no merit at all, why in December of twenty

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Speaker 7: twenty two did Congress change the rules relating to an

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Speaker 7: act that went back to eighteen eighty seven to specify

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Speaker 7: that the vice president was primarily engaging in a ceremonial

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Speaker 7: role and didn't have the authority to engage in any

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Speaker 7: sort of analysis of whether the electoral votes were legitimate

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Speaker 7: or not. To me, this is an open and chuck case,

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Speaker 7: and I actually think it's going to go to the

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Speaker 7: extent that it survives, and it probably will because the

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Speaker 7: forum is so favorable. The Supreme Court, I think will

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Speaker 7: vote maybe seven too maybe even nine to zero that

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Speaker 7: this is not a legitimate use of power, and that

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Speaker 7: these charges in DC are entirely illegitimate, not founded in

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Speaker 7: the law, and that Trump had every right to engage

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Speaker 7: in the behavior that he did acting on the advice

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Speaker 7: of some of his legal counsel. Do you think that

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Speaker 7: that's going to happen though in advance of trial? Like, what,

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Speaker 7: what do you think the process is going to be here?

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Speaker 7: For the We got multiple criminal trials going on. So

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Speaker 7: let's assume that d C goes before the election. They'll

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Speaker 7: have to go to the Court of Appeals.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's the first to try to There's a whole

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Speaker 2: bunch of things that venue should be adjudicated here. The judge,

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Speaker 2: as as a lot of folks are noticing, is basically

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Speaker 2: the worst judge for Trump based on record that how

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Speaker 2: that happens huh, yeah, it's funny how that went down

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Speaker 2: that way. And you see what's going on right now,

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Speaker 2: you say to yourself, Okay, they're probably not going to

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Speaker 2: let them change venue because they didn't let any other

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Speaker 2: jan six cases change venue. They're not going to let

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Speaker 2: them change the judge, which means the trial is going

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Speaker 2: to go forward. So then the appeals court. But the

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Speaker 2: appeals court in d C District, I mean the DC

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Speaker 2: Court of Appeals. You can't, I can't think that that's

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Speaker 2: going to go his way.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think Buck, you could probably get an expedited review.

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Speaker 7: First of all, I don't think, and I've been on

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Speaker 7: the record, I could end up being wrong. But I

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Speaker 7: don't think they're going to be able to get these

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Speaker 7: trials done before the election. So I think the twenty

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Speaker 7: twenty four election is going to have already occurred before

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Speaker 7: we get a full result in Miami South Florida area.

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Speaker 2: Or in DC. We're gonna have it in New York.

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Speaker 7: For sure, they get a result in New York, but

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Speaker 7: I think that's such a trivial, trivial crime. They'll be

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Speaker 7: an appeal and everything else. I don't think it'll have

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Speaker 7: any real impact. I actually so, I would suspect that

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Speaker 7: they will expedite in the event that there was a trial,

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Speaker 7: they would, I believe, expedite this review very quickly, and

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Speaker 7: I think it would run through the DC Circuit, through

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Speaker 7: the and through the Supreme Court, and I think they

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Speaker 7: would toss this out. So I expected, And I haven't

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Speaker 7: even read I don't know if you've had a chance

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Speaker 7: to spend very much time even reading the left wing

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Speaker 7: opinions on this. And I don't mean like the slanted

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Speaker 7: news coverage. I mean lawyers looking at this and saying,

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Speaker 7: I mean I expected this. This is so much closer

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Speaker 7: to New York City the charge is there, than it

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Speaker 7: is to Miami, because there are arguments that Trump based

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Speaker 7: on obstruction refusing to turn over the documents. I don't

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Speaker 7: think we'll get a conviction in South Florida. But when

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Speaker 7: I read that indictment, we came on Buck and I

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Speaker 7: was like, Okay, this is a different level. Trump could

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Speaker 7: behaved recklessly here. There's nothing. I mean, it almost feels

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Speaker 7: like this story is almost vanished because the left wing,

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Speaker 7: I think, was hoping, oh, he's going to get charged

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Speaker 7: with sedition, He's going to get charged with treason, all

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Speaker 7: these different things, and you've got a conspiracy that's basically

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Speaker 7: rooted in legal discussion.

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Speaker 2: Isn't there the possibility though, of a superseding indictment still?

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at the timing of all

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Speaker 2: of this, it comes down right about when the whole

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Speaker 2: Biden house of cards is, of course right, very hard

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Speaker 2: not to notice that this is going on, just as

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Speaker 2: we see everything they said about how Joe ever talked

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Speaker 2: to a hunter about this, Actually he was on speakerphone

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Speaker 2: with him like twenty times. Joe wasn't a part of this. Actually,

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden was the brand all that comes down and

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Speaker 2: they try to put the final nail in the legal

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Speaker 2: coffin of the Trump campaign, and it does feel like, wow,

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Speaker 2: that's quite a coincidence. There's still the possibility, though, just

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Speaker 2: as we saw in Florida, of a superseding indictment that

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Speaker 2: would include more. Possibly. I think it looks messy personally.

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Speaker 7: If you don't have all your ducks in a proverbial road,

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Speaker 7: doesn't mean they can't do it, But I don't. I

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Speaker 7: think this is their shot. I think this is their

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Speaker 7: shot at Trump on January sixth. There's always the possibility

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Speaker 7: that new evidence emerges.

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Speaker 2: He's named these co conspirators Clayton right in the indictment

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Speaker 2: that's come down, basically his lawyers. You also notice, everybody,

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Speaker 2: if you had just beamed down to earth. In the

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Speaker 2: pre Trump era, we had this whole thing in this

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Speaker 2: country of lawyers and attorney client privilege, and that was

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Speaker 2: something that we considered somewhat sacred in the legal profession.

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Speaker 2: And now we know Trump's lawyers have been turned against

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Speaker 2: them numerous times. I think that's the play of the

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Speaker 2: play here, or the unindicted co conspirators. They're all going

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Speaker 2: to be offered. You totally walk, no problem, you flip

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Speaker 2: on Trump. And so that's the only way that I

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Speaker 2: could see them going for some kind of additional charges,

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Speaker 2: because what they would say is, well, now with the

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Speaker 2: lawyer's testimony, the co conspirators, now we can nail him down.

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Speaker 2: You see what I mean.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I just again, the theory of this case is

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Speaker 7: Trump's legal claims were so patently absurd that he actually

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Speaker 7: engaged in a conspiracy because he knew that those legal

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Speaker 7: claims were patently absurd, and he knew that he had

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Speaker 7: lost the election, and so therefore we've got him on

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Speaker 7: a conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: And I'll just say this.

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Speaker 7: I've said it on the show before when I was

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Speaker 7: in krimlawbuck my Krim Law professor, he was a legend

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Speaker 7: at Vanderbilt Law School, Don Hall. He said, Uh, the

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Speaker 7: number one thing that prosecutors always say is, man, we

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Speaker 7: really don't have a case here. We'll get them on

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Speaker 7: a conspiracy. That's always the weakest of all charges. And

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Speaker 7: so I just want to take you inside. I've been

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Speaker 7: in so many discussions with lawyers where everybody's sitting around

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Speaker 7: the table and you're saying, Okay, what arguments do we

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Speaker 7: have to make on our side, and lawyers just start

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Speaker 7: spitballing ideas. Okay, well we'll claim this, we'll claim that,

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Speaker 7: And then in real time lawyers work through and say,

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Speaker 7: I don't know that. I buy into that argument very strong.

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Speaker 7: I like this argument better. And ultimately, if you read

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Speaker 7: pleadings lawyers all oftentimes buck will say we believe X,

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Speaker 7: but if X doesn't apply, we believe why, And if

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Speaker 7: why doesn't apply, we believe Z applies. In other words,

434
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 7: you're throwing out all sorts of legal arguments because you're

435
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,959
Speaker 7: not sure how the Court's going to respond to them.

436
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 7: And I just come back to when they change the law.

437
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 7: You can argue that this is an expansive, aggressive definition

438
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 7: of what the vice president's role was.

439
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 2: I'm focusing on this in particular on jan six, But when.

440
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 7: They changed the law to eliminate any uncertainty, to me,

441
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 7: that ends the argument that it was an illegitimate argument

442
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 7: in the first place, because the fact that they had

443
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 7: to change the law to remove that ambiguity proves that

444
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 7: the ambiguity was there and that you could make that

445
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 7: argument as a legally colorable claim.

446
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: Lawyers here's the other thing, buck.

447
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 7: If lawyers make indefensible legal arguments, the court can sanction

448
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 7: those lawyers. And so far as I have seen, I

449
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 7: have not seen any of the filings that Trump has made,

450
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 7: and I'm not an expert in all of this, I

451
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 7: have not seen all of the lawyers being severely reprimanded

452
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 7: for the claims that they have tried to make. Now,

453
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 7: individual bar associations have gone after some of Trump's lawyers,

454
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 7: but that's mostly political. They tried to go after Rudy Giuliani,

455
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 7: They've gone after I mean, that's just weaponizing blue states

456
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 7: against red attorneys. And unfortunately that's become a real thing too.

457
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: Well.

458
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: You'd have to wonder, you know, the take it back

459
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: to a trial that everybody who's certain age remembers, and

460
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 2: pretty clearly OJ's lawyers knew what they were doing wasn't true. Yeah,

461
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean that's often the job of a

462
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: defense attorney, right. They were not idiots. They knew what

463
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: had really happened there. But they gave the most vigorous

464
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: defense they could and they tried anything they could within

465
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: the bounds of the law to get their client off.

466
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: And we all know how that happened. You know, I

467
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: do think you can argue it's unethical. I think you

468
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: can argue it's unseemly, but it's not criminal. And that's

469
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 2: the thing here is you can say you don't like

470
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: the actions and people. The real test for this, or

471
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: the real punishment should be what did the American people think,

472
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: you know, like in an election. That's how this should

473
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 2: be adjudicated. Not trying to throw people in prison, no doubt, Buck.

474
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 7: And I'll also mention Joe Biden himself has gotten slapped

475
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 7: down by the Supreme Court a lot for legal theories

476
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 7: that he has advanced, including legal theories that he himself

477
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 7: said he knew was unconstitutional. Remember the eviction moratorium. Biden said, Oh, well,

478
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 7: the Supreme Court's not going to allow us to do this.

479
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 7: We don't have the authority. What about student loan forgiveness?

480
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 7: Nancy Pelosi said, Joe Biden didn't have the authority to

481
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 7: do it. The president can't just act. In other words,

482
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 7: the Supreme Court regularly says to the President of the

483
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 7: United States, you have done something that is unconstitutional under

484
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 7: Jack Smith's definition, if you engaged in illegal argument that

485
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 7: you think is unlikely to win maybe even that you

486
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 7: have publicly said you expect to lose. That's a conspiracy

487
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 7: to defraud the American people. It's just it is a

488
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 7: broken case on its inception.

489
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: Problem though with all of this is let's just assume,

490
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 2: because it's almost always the case, that you and I

491
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: are right in our overall view of this. Right, let's

492
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 2: assume that the legality of this and so many other

493
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: We're gonna have Anny McCarthy on later. You know, I

494
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: know Dershowitz was on Glenn Show this morning, and you

495
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: have all the Jonathan Turley. I saw his quotes last night.

496
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 2: When this broke, people are saying this, this is just

497
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: it's flimsy, especially for going after somebody who's running for

498
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: president right now. The process is still the punishment.

499
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 4: Clay.

500
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take a look at the politics of this,

501
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: and a second here we come back. What does it

502
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: mean for the Trump campaign, what does it mean for

503
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: Biden's hopes of reelection? Looking at this more from the

504
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,479
Speaker 2: political than the legal lens, and then we will let

505
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: Clay go back to his vacation and his family. I said, Clay,

506
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: it's okay, You're allowed to take vacation. He's like the

507
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: people need me, I said, sir, I agree, we got you.

508
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: So he's here. We'll come back to him and just

509
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Speaker 2: born on America's darkest day of nine to eleven. The

510
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511
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Speaker 2: and limb in a line of duty ever since. Detective

512
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Speaker 2: Joseph Seal served in the Jersey City, New Jersey Police

513
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Speaker 2: Department for thirteen years. He worked with a city ceasefire unit,

514
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Speaker 2: where he helped get dozens of illegal guns off the streets.

515
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Speaker 2: He was shot and killed during a confrontation with armed

516
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Speaker 2: gunmen in twenty nineteen, just days before Christmas. He left

517
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Speaker 2: behind his wife, Laura, and five children. Tunnelta Towers immediately

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Speaker 2: and fallen first responder families. Talala Towers gives hope to

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Speaker 2: The Talulta towers at T two t dot org. That's

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Speaker 2: t the number two t dot org.

527
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Speaker 1: The Clay and Buck podcast deep dives with cool content,

528
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: surprise guests. Get it all on the iHeart app or

529
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.

530
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: Second hour of play in Buck kicks off right now, everybody.

531
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: We are joined by the best in the business, our

532
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 2: friend Andy McCarthy with legal analysis of this indictment and

533
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: what's coming and all the rest of it. He's from

534
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: a National Review and Fox News twenty years plus as

535
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: a federal prosecutor in the Southern District of New York. Andy,

536
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: give us your top line here, my friend, you read

537
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: this indictment, what was your biggest takeaway?

538
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 6: Well, I think the indictment has lots of problems Buck,

539
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 6: But to cut to the chase, I think they're doing

540
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 6: a political act that they're masquerating as a legal proceeding.

541
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 6: I think it's driven by a political reason. That is,

542
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 6: the congressional process as impeachment failed and that's not an

543
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 6: acceptable outcome the people who push this, so they're trying

544
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 6: to do in the criminal arena what they couldn't get

545
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 6: done in the congressional arena. The problem is it's not

546
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 6: a good fit. And on the other end of it,

547
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 6: I think they're doing it for the obvious political reason

548
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 6: that they're trying to push this case to trial and

549
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 6: then have it aired out in public with capital riot

550
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 6: evidence that he's kind of Smith has kind of insidiously

551
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 6: inserted into the case so that it can be in

552
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 6: the front of voters' minds as they go to the

553
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 6: polls in twenty twenty four.

554
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: So it's almost like this is part of the Biden

555
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: reelection campaign. I mean, that's really it's meant to coincide

556
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: with Trump running and create at least a spectacle, if

557
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: not a guilty verdict here of all these things the

558
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: Democrats have been talking about since twenty twenty.

559
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think we knew that buck even before this

560
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 6: ever came out. Because remember, even though there are clear,

561
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 6: long known crimes in connection with Hunter Biden, the Justice

562
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 6: Department has never appointed a special council and has never

563
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 6: even indided the case, even though there's a neon blinking

564
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 6: conflict of interest there. On the other hand, the Biden

565
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 6: Justice Department appointed a special counsel for Trump even though

566
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 6: there's no conflict of interest, which is what you're supposed

567
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 6: to need to appoint a special council. So it seems

568
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 6: to me it was obvious that the reason they did this,

569
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 6: and I said it at the time, was their planning.

570
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 6: Biden and Garland had every intention of Trump being charged,

571
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 6: and they want to argue because they knew that Trump

572
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 6: was going to go on the campaign trail and say

573
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 6: that Biden was using the justice system as a weapon

574
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 6: against him.

575
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 3: They wanted to come up.

576
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 6: With a political fiction by which they could tell people

577
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 6: that they don't have anything to do with it. That is,

578
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 6: the Attorney General and the president don't have anything to

579
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 6: do with it. So that's what they appointed Smith for.

580
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 6: But it was always in their playbook. I think that

581
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 6: he was going to.

582
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 3: Bring this case, and now he's brought it.

583
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: Where do you think the case here, the charges, where

584
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: does it fall apart the most for you? Like, what

585
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: are the areas where you just say this should have

586
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: never I should have never been brought.

587
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 6: I think in particular the first count, which is this

588
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 6: conspiracy to defraud the government.

589
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 3: And I've been writing about.

590
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 6: This since May, but the Supreme Court in May throughout

591
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 6: two political corruption convictions against two cronies of former New

592
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 6: York Governor Andrew Cuomo.

593
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: And what the Court very clearly.

594
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 6: Said was two things that I think Smith has totally ignored,

595
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 6: even though in some ways they may even have been

596
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 6: intended for him or at least the prosecutors generally.

597
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: The first is buck that.

598
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 6: Fraud in the United States and federal law means what

599
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 6: it meant when it was initially enacted in the end

600
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 6: of the nineteenth century, which is, it's a scheme to

601
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 6: deprive somebody out of money or tangible property. And what

602
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 6: the Court said is that Congress has not successfully enacted

603
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 6: a fraud statute that would extend fraud to other deceptive

604
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 6: plans that don't involve builking people out of money and property.

605
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,479
Speaker 3: And the Court was very.

606
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 6: Adamant, which is the reason they threw these cases out

607
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 6: against the Cuomo guys, that prosecutors are not at liberty

608
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 6: to make up such crimes. That if they're going to

609
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 6: be those crimes, they have to be enacted by Congress,

610
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 6: which obviously hasn't enacted it. So given that the Supreme

611
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 6: Court did two decisions on one day about that in May,

612
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 6: you would think that that would have come to the

613
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 6: attention of a prosecutor who was winding up of his investigation,

614
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 6: because this is a harpoon right in the middle of it.

615
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 6: And then I think buck that generally what the court's

616
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 6: message was was an admonition to prosecutors that you are

617
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 6: not at liberty to expand statutes beyond the coverage that

618
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 6: Congress intended by manipulating ambiguous words like fraud or corruption.

619
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 6: And that's exactly what Smith has done in this indictment.

620
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 6: He indicted a fraud count that isn't fraud under federal law.

621
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 6: He's indicted an obstruction count on a theory that it's

622
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 6: corrupt to follow a specious legal argument, and he's indicted

623
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 6: a civil rights count.

624
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 3: This is perhaps as unbelievable.

625
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 6: As anything else. He's indicted a civil rights charge on

626
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 6: the basis of a post civil rights statute that was

627
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 6: aimed at protecting blacks in the South from violent attacks

628
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 6: by the Ku Klux Klan to try to prevent them

629
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 6: from voting. So to analogize that to this to me

630
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 6: is like fantasy land.

631
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 2: Now, let's look at the machinery of it a little

632
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: bit now, or the how this process is going to

633
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: play out. He's got a very clearly anti Trump judge

634
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: and a very clearly anti Trump jurisdiction Washington, DC. Is

635
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: this first, Andy, you think that they're going to fast

636
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: track this and have it happen before the election. How

637
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: do you see this playing out on this case?

638
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 6: I think the only reason politically to bring it, and

639
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 6: politics is the front the first order issue for these guys.

640
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 6: I think the only reason to bring it is to

641
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 6: get it in front of the electorate in time for

642
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 6: the election he may appoint. Yesterday, I thought, I said

643
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 6: on television book that I thought his press conference after

644
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 6: the indictment was the most demagogic thing I ever seen

645
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 6: a federal prosecutor do. In connection with a press conference

646
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 6: like that, one of the things he said was he

647
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 6: intended to get a speedy trial, which is code for

648
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 6: you know, we're going to push this thing. And I

649
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 6: think he's actually undermined his legal position for that, because

650
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 6: if you really want to get this case to trial quickly,

651
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 6: what you should have done is indicted this case first. Instead,

652
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 6: he indicted the mar al Lago case first and push

653
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 6: the judge there into a May trial day. So you know,

654
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 6: whether he likes it or not, Trump does have constitutional rights,

655
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 6: including due process rights to mount a defense, which means

656
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 6: to be able to investigate the case and to have

657
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 6: time to process the charges and engage in litigation that

658
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 6: a case like this calls for. But what Trump can

659
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 6: argue is that Smith has intentionally and tactically undermined his

660
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 6: fair trial rights by intentionally bringing this other lawsuit in Florida,

661
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 6: which makes it much harder for Trump to defend himself

662
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 6: in Washington. So even a anti Trump judge, if that's

663
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 6: what we turn out to have here, I think you

664
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 6: have to sit up and take notice of that claim,

665
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 6: because that's a profound legal claim.

666
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 2: And how worried are you, Andy, just as a person

667
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: who's seen how this stuff goes over many years in

668
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 2: federal courtrooms. A DC jury with these charges, I mean,

669
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 2: you've given us your legal analysis of it. But are

670
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 2: you concerned that there could be a guilty verdict here

671
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: just based on anti Trump animosity or do you think

672
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,439
Speaker 2: that whether it's the appeals court or the Supreme Court,

673
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 2: it's not even going to get to that level.

674
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I think, Buck, I'm more confident in

675
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 6: the jury system than most people are, and I appreciate

676
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 6: all the things about the Washington DC jury pool. I

677
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 6: think that Trump will have a more weighty argument to

678
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 6: get the case moved out of the District of Columbia

679
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 6: than most defendants have in federal cases because the district

680
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 6: of Columbia is small. It's not just that it's politically

681
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 6: biased against him. The Capitol riot happened in Washington. Now,

682
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 6: on that score, the reason I said that Smith was

683
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 6: so demagogic yesterday, the Capitol riot really shouldn't have anything

684
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 6: to do with this because Smith hasn't charged him with

685
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 6: the Capitol riot and there's no evidence connecting Trump in

686
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 6: a criminally actionable Yesterday, after the indictment, which I thought

687
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 6: was amazing because he didn't really talk about the charges

688
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 6: he had actually filed, he talked about what a terrible

689
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 6: thing the Capitol riot was and lauded the bravery of

690
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 6: the police and other security forces who had been attacked

691
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 6: as the building was attacked. That really shouldn't have anything

692
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 6: to do with this case because Trump is in charge

693
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 6: with it. Yet, if you look at the indictment, flip

694
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 6: toward the end, I think it's page thirty nine out

695
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 6: of forty five pages. He's got three or four pages

696
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 6: in there about the Capitol Riot. Now, he hasn't charged

697
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 6: the Capitol riot, but he put those pages in the

698
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 6: indictment so that he can argue to the judge that

699
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 6: he should be able to put evidence of the Capitol

700
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 6: riot in And I think that's waving the bloody shirt.

701
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 6: He knows how weak his charges are and he thinks

702
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 6: he needs to get that even with a DC jury.

703
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 6: He thinks that he needs to get that evidence into

704
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 6: the case to have a chance to convict Trump. And

705
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 6: a good judge will keep that evidence out of the case.

706
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: But it to me, Buck, is additional reason why the

707
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 3: case why.

708
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 6: There's a very good argument that the case ought'll be

709
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 6: moved out of the District of Columbia.

710
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 2: Andy McCarthy with us right now. Andy, are you confident

711
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: that Trump is going to be able to beat all

712
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: this stuff in the legal system, put aside whether he

713
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: can win politically. You're affective of these outcomes. Do you

714
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 2: think that he's in pretty good shape to just make

715
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: it through this gauntlet?

716
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 6: No, No one's ever been through a gauntlet like this before, Buck,

717
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 6: And this goes to how political it is. There's a

718
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 6: lot of people who've been the subject of a lot

719
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 6: of litigation including criminal and civil cases. You know, you

720
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 6: and I collectively have enough experience in you know, police

721
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 6: and law enforcement and all that stuff that we could

722
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 6: think of five or six people who were, you know,

723
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 6: thought to be heavy duty criminals who had a lot

724
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 6: of cases against them, both criminal and civil cases. But

725
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 6: I've never seen a situation where you have one guy

726
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 6: who suddenly got all these criminal and civil cases which

727
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 6: are not going to be spread out over.

728
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 3: A few years.

729
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 6: This is all being fast tracked so that this evidence

730
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 6: in these trials can take place in the period of

731
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 6: the election.

732
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: In the camp, it sounds like Andy, you you agree

733
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 2: with me that it seems suspicious that this guy lived

734
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 2: seventy seven years of his life and in the seventy

735
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: seventh year he's facing two federal indictments, a criminal indictment

736
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,959
Speaker 2: in New York, possibly another one in Georgia, and also

737
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 2: a state investigation in New.

738
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 6: York, and that they're in a hot panic to get

739
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 6: it to trial, you know, in the next five minutes.

740
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 6: I'm like, you know, if you're the government and you

741
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 6: know that somebody is facing all these other trials, you

742
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 6: don't want to create a record that he doesn't have

743
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 6: that his due process rights haven't been honored, and that

744
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 6: he didn't have an opportunity to prepare for your trial.

745
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 6: And if you're Smith, you could prosecute the same case,

746
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 6: Buck on December one of twenty twenty four, as you know,

747
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 6: before election day, and it wouldn't prejudice the.

748
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 3: Government in the slightest.

749
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 6: But they're in a hot panic to get this case

750
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 6: to trial because they want it before the election. That's

751
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 6: the whole point.

752
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: Do you think they're going to get it before the election?

753
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 4: Andy?

754
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 6: And it really depends on the Yeah, I'm thinking about it, Buck,

755
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 6: It really depends you ask me these hard questions. Buck,

756
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 6: I have to take a second to think. You know,

757
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 6: it depends on the judge. It really does depend on

758
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 6: the judge. And it depends on whether Trump could come

759
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 6: up with some reason that he gets to appeal before

760
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 6: the trial. You know, there's a lot of reasons, Buck,

761
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 6: because of the classified information aspects of it, that Trump

762
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 6: could appeal the marral Lago case prior to trial, because

763
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 6: there's there's provisions in this in the classified information one

764
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 6: that allow for that. I'm not seeing a lot of

765
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 6: good basis to try to get this appealed prior to trial.

766
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 6: And he's going to have to come up with them

767
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 6: because I think, you know, the judge in this case

768
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 6: has to know the Court of Appeals in the Supreme Court.

769
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: Looking go read Andy's latest. It's Trump's January sixth and diamond,

770
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: a political scheme to influence the next election. It is

771
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: up at clanbuck dot com. Originally posted at the Messenger

772
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: dot com, but go to clanbuck dot com. You'll have

773
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: a cross link there. Andy. We're gonna be talking to

774
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: you a lot, sir, so get some rest. Thanks for

775
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: being here.

776
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 6: It's my pleasure, Buck, Thank you so much.

777
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 2: Thank you. Got to hand it to the people at Puretalk.

778
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 2: They did something very smart for those of us that

779
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 2: have switched our cell phone service to them.

780
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781
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,920
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782
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Speaker 2: monthly price. For new and current Puretalk customers, they added

783
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784
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785
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786
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787
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789
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790
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793
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Speaker 2: and Buck, and make the switch to my cell phone company,

794
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 2: Pure Talk Today.

795
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: They're here to shed lights on the truth every day. Clay,

796
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: Travis and Buck Sexton.

797
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 2: All right, we've got Julie Kelly with us now here

798
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: on Clayan Buck. She is a phenomenal analyst and writer.

799
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: And you should check out her substack, which Julie, what

800
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 2: is the name of the substack again?

801
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 8: Hey Buck, it is declassified with Julie Kelly.

802
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 2: There you go. It's an excellent substack. Highly recommend So, Julie, Okay, Yes,

803
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 2: we've had you on for the you told us so

804
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 2: a few times. And yes, you told us not only

805
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: would Trump be indicted, but that it would be specifically

806
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: And and i've been related to election twenty twenty and

807
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: January sixth? Were you surprised at all by the charges?

808
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean the specific charges, not that there

809
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 2: were any.

810
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 8: Right exactly, No, I wasn't you know, a three out

811
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 8: of the four were mentioned in the January sixth Select

812
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 8: Committee report. I also suspected that obstruction of an official

813
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 8: preceding that fifteen twelve C two would be the top charge.

814
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 8: It was actually the third charge. Not that it matters,

815
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 8: that is the most common selene for January six More

816
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 8: than three hundred defendants slept with that selenie, So I

817
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 8: wasn't really surprised, but I have to admit, Buck, I

818
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 8: was really surprised at how just sloppy and juvenile the

819
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 8: indictment was. It's basically, for the most part, a cut

820
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 8: and paste job from the January sixth Select Committee. I mean,

821
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 8: I think DOJ and Jacksmith should be embarrassed by the

822
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 8: document that they filed yesterday.

823
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: Yeah to me, I said on Twitter, and then today

824
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: on the show, it's like a monologue you'd expect on MSNBC.

825
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: I mean, that's it reads like it. Oh and then

826
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: and he didn't even believe the thing. He said to

827
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: his lawyers, like how do you know that? And what

828
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: are you saying? And the whole thing just feels like

829
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: it falls apart with any honest scrutiny. But now, let's

830
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 2: kind of get into you know, there's what's fair and right,

831
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: and there's what's happening, right, Julie, and when it comes

832
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 2: to this get Trump operation, we can't lose sight of

833
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: the latter as in what they're doing to them and

834
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: how this is going to play out. For example, on

835
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 2: the obstruction of official proceeding. They have sent other j

836
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: six defendants to real prison terms based on that. As

837
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 2: I understand, it.

838
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 8: Is that right, Oh, they absolutely have. I mean, the

839
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 8: most infamous defendant is, of course Jacob Chansley, the QAnon Shaman.

840
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 8: And keep in mind, not only prison sentences after a

841
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 8: plea agreement or conviction at trial, they have held these

842
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 8: judges have held some defendants in pre trialed attention, meaning

843
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 8: denying them bail because they were charged with obstruction and

844
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 8: a few other misdemeanors. I mean, Jacob Chansley was not

845
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 8: charged with assaulting a police officer vandalizing property directly. We

846
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 8: saw him on video walking around in numerous instances with

847
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 8: police right nearby. But they denied Jacob Chansley's bail and finally,

848
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 8: after ten months in base solitary confinement, Jacob Chansley was

849
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 8: tormented into pleading guilty for obstruction then sentenced to forty

850
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 8: one months in prison, so that a guilty conviction can

851
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 8: land someone anywhere between three and five years in jail,

852
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 8: but also be the basis for pre trial detention. And

853
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 8: so Will Jacksmith asked that I know you and I've

854
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 8: talked about that. I have a column up kind of

855
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 8: detailing a major court decision and then recent case law

856
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 8: that could justify that. But you know, I guess we'll

857
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 8: find out later today or tomorrow when Trump is rained.

858
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 8: But this is not the only indictment that's coming down

859
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 8: in this matter box. There will be superseding indictments.

860
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 3: There will last week.

861
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, and I think people should still prepare for

862
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 8: a possible seditious conspiracy dment with Trump and the co

863
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 8: conspirators were named cited in the inciptment.

864
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 2: Yesterday, we're speaking to Julie Kelly Declassified US or sub Stack. Julie,

865
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: you know when you just said before, they may get

866
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 2: or they may try to get a pre trial detainment

867
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 2: of Donald Trump. I think the first instinct that I

868
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: have and everyone else listening has, is that's crazy. And

869
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 2: then it might kick in, the thought might come into

870
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 2: our minds of oh, but the judge in this case

871
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 2: is about as anti Trump as could be, right, I mean,

872
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: like like walk us through what we should expect with

873
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: because right it would be up to the judge. And

874
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 2: this judge not a Trump voter from what it.

875
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 8: Seems, not a Trump fan at all. In fact, you'd

876
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 8: be hard pressed, with the exception of Beryl Howell, to

877
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 8: have a worst judge, worse judge than time you chuck in.

878
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 8: I almost stell off my chair when I saw her

879
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 8: in this at the top of that indictment because I

880
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 8: and I tweeted, you probably saw Trump as doomed. Not

881
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 8: only did she author the ruling that force Donald Trump

882
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 8: to produce all of his records to the January sixth Committee,

883
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 8: denying him executive privilege, she is the toughest judge when

884
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 8: it comes to handing down sentences for January six ers.

885
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 8: In fact, in a few occasions, she has sentenced j

886
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 8: six ers to more prison time than what the DOJ

887
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 8: has asked for. And I'll tell you what buck. I

888
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 8: was in her courtroom a few months ago, an empty courtroom,

889
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 8: of course, with a defendant who was convicted of for

890
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 8: the four common misdemeanors. He was inside the building for

891
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 8: eleven minutes. She spent fifteen minutes brating this man over

892
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 8: what trespassing at the capitol. She also berated him for

893
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 8: choosing to move forward with the jury trial rather than

894
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 8: pleading guilty, because that wasted all looks sort of resources, apparently,

895
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 8: because most defendants who get her assigned as a judge,

896
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 8: they plead out because they know how tough she is.

897
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 8: And you could just sense I was watching her, and

898
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 8: you could just sense she was so condescending. You could

899
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,879
Speaker 8: just feel the contempt that she has for this man

900
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 8: who committed no violent crime. And so this is what

901
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 8: Donald Trump is up against. And getting time you chucked

902
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 8: in as a judge was probably worse news than the

903
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 8: indictment itself.

904
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 3: Wow.

905
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: Okay, So this then brings me to the next part

906
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 2: of this. You know, we had Andy on Andy McCarthy before,

907
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: and I was asking about about the timing here. You know,

908
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: Clay has thought all along that they were going to

909
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: be able to delay these trials of that election. I

910
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 2: keep telling Clay, They're not bringing these trials to delay them,

911
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: my friend, Like this is not going to happen. They're

912
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: meaning the system will yes under normal, a normal regime,

913
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: you should be, there should be delays and challenges. But

914
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 2: if they're going to ram it through, they're going to

915
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: ram it through, and clearly they want to do this

916
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: before the election. So let's just assume. I asked Andy

917
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: the same thing. He said, I don't know. I mean,

918
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 2: they might try to get this one probably before the election,

919
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 2: if he's got the worst judge he could possibly have,

920
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 2: or close to it. I think you said probably number two.

921
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 2: And a jury pool that is comprised of the most

922
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: high concentration of anti Trump individuals, everyday citizens in the country.

923
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 2: What happens here? I mean, people keep asking me, can

924
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 2: Trump go to prison? Are they really going to try

925
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: to do that?

926
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 8: Well, look, I sort of agree with Clay and I

927
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 8: just told Megan Kelly this as well. I don't see

928
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 8: either one of these cases going to trial before the election.

929
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 8: Most importantly, Jack Smith does not want the class by

930
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 8: documents case to go to trial.

931
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 6: It's a joke.

932
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 8: There is nothing there, and they are trying desperately to

933
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 8: withhold these alleged class by documents, even from Donald Trump,

934
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 8: under these crazy protective orders. And furthermore, they have a

935
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 8: very tough judge who has got DOJ's number judge Aileen

936
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 8: Cannon in Southern Floor, and she is not putting up

937
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 8: with any bad behavior from DJ. They don't want that

938
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 8: case to go to trial. This would be really hard

939
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 8: pressed a case of this magnitude to go to trial

940
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 8: that quickly. For example, the Proud Boys trial the Seditious Conspiracy,

941
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 8: it was almost two years after the defendants were first

942
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 8: arrested and charged, and then a year later charged with

943
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 8: seditious conspiracy. So it would be really hard, just a

944
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 8: normal circumstance to put Trump's January sixth case to trial

945
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 8: before the election. But as I said, jack Smith is

946
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 8: going to continue to supersede indict this original indictment. He's

947
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 8: going to add charges, He's going to add co defendants,

948
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 8: which then sets the Speedy Trial Act clock backwards to

949
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 8: the very beginning. So I don't think he wants either

950
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 8: one to go to trial before the election. He wants

951
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 8: death by a thousand cuts, because you could see now,

952
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 8: no matter what kind of bad news comes out about

953
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 8: the by family crime racket or anything of the Democrats,

954
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 8: this is going to be a great way for Jacksmith

955
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 8: and the DOJ to use this as a ruse to

956
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 8: pivot away, deflect attention from what's happening with the Democrats.

957
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: So then what I take from you is you think

958
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 2: or your assessment at this point, and your assessment was

959
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 2: they were going to indict him a whole bunch. So

960
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: here we are. But your assessment going forward is they're

961
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 2: bringing this is effectively the dirtiest political campaign in history,

962
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,800
Speaker 2: hijacking the DOJ to do it, meaning they're not actually

963
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 2: likely to lock him up in a cell before the

964
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 2: election or even get to that point where they could

965
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 2: through a trial, but by bringing all this stuff, they

966
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 2: muddy him up and they create this whole Trump is

967
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 2: a criminal narrative that they're going to run on. Is

968
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: that about right?

969
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 6: Oh?

970
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 8: Yes, absolutely. They want the headlines. They want to suck

971
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 8: all the oxygen out of the general but also the

972
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 8: Republican primary. You know, this is the top issue. This

973
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 8: is a huge issue with Republican voters. So how Donald

974
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 8: Trump's Republican opponents respond to this? And we see really

975
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 8: tepid responses coming out from just a few of them.

976
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 8: I mean, Mike Pence's response was embarrassing. I don't think

977
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 8: bron De Santisis was any better. So this is going

978
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 8: to be a clarifying issue in the Republican primary. And

979
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 8: then Jack Smith, who is a creature of DJ. He

980
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 8: spent four and a half years in the DJ under

981
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 8: Barack Obama. He worked for two and a half years

982
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 8: at Mean Justice with Lisa Monico, the Deputy Attorney General.

983
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 8: Right now, he understands very clearly his marching orders, and

984
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 8: he is going to He's going to do whatever he's

985
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 8: told or whatever he senses. We saw this yesterday with

986
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 8: his pathetic statement that was you know, he was nervous.

987
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 8: He was clearly just overly agitated. He used all sorts

988
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,280
Speaker 8: of hyperbole that had nothing to do with the indictment.

989
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 8: As he said, Donald J. Trump, he practically spit out

990
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 8: his name. So very few people Americans are going to

991
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 8: view him as a fair arbiter of justice and nothing

992
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 8: more than another Democratic political operative disguised as a federal prosecutor.

993
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 2: Julie Kelly, everybody declassified as their substack. Go check it out, Julie.

994
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: We're gonna be talking to you. Thanks for being here.

995
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 8: Thanks Buck appreciate it.

996
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,120
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997
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