1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. In the last hours, a 2 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: convicted kidnapper rapist agasalter in court, but this time linked 3 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: to the body of a thirty four year old Memphis 4 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: mother of two, Eliza Fletcher. Her disappearance rot not only 5 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: Memphis but our country. So seemingly out of the blue. 6 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: This innocent, young church school teacher, mother of two beautiful children, 7 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: out up and early. Like many of us moms, She's 8 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: up at four o'clock. It's the only time in her 9 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: day she can fit in a run in between working 10 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: and being a full time mother. Eliza never made it 11 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: home from that run. Where did it all start? Take 12 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at w r EG. It's 13 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: been just over twelve hours since Elijah Fletcher disappeared and 14 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: multiple agencies has have joined forces, and I can tell 15 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: you there's a lot of concern in the community as 16 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: time passes by. Where is the lines of Fletcher? That's 17 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: the question many are asking across the Mid South after 18 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: investigators say the avid jogger was abducted. It's very important 19 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: that if anybody knows the whereabouts of miss Fletcher to 20 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: contact the police immediately. Fletcher was jogging down Central Avenue 21 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: around four thirty this morning, when investigators say she was 22 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: approached by someone who forced her into a dark colored 23 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: suv and drove off. You don't want to hear that 24 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: that's going on. We want to find her. We don't know, 25 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: We don't know what's going on. Hart Robinson is a 26 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: friend of Fletcher and got the news this morning and 27 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: immediately came to the area of Central Avenue and Zach 28 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: Curling Street where she was last seen. Where everybody's really 29 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: looking for it. That desperate search went on, and as 30 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: friends and family, including police, retra can't you just imagine 31 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: you doing it yourself, retracing the steps you think she jogged, 32 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: And as that took place, only two clues emerged. A 33 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: water bottle and a cracked cell phone or take a 34 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: listen to our friend Jordan James Fletcher cell phone and 35 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: a water bottle were found in front of a home 36 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: owned by the University of Memphis and a safety alert 37 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: sent to students. They say she was reported missing after 38 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: not returning home from her run. The suv that she 39 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: was last seen and was spotted driving westbound down Central Avenue. 40 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: Multiple agencies, including the FBI, are assisting with the case. 41 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: With one goal in mind, find Eliza Fletcher. Our concern 42 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: is to locate miss Fletcher, so if anybody knows where 43 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: she's at, call the police immediately. The Midtown woman was 44 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: kidnapped while jogging early Friday morning near the University of Memphis. 45 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: According to Memphis Police, Fletcher had been jogging in the 46 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: area of Central and Zach Curlan at about four thirty 47 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: in the morning when an unknown person approached her and 48 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: forced her into a dark colored SUV. After a brief struggle, 49 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: Fletcher was then forced into the vehicle. I Meancy Grace, 50 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 51 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation, and Sirius XM one eleven, you 52 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: just heard the bare bones of the beginnings of the 53 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: frantic search for this thirty four year old Memphis mother 54 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: of two. Every case, every murder case I prosecuted or investigated, 55 00:03:54,520 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: I started with the one thing my victim, Eliza. I 56 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: want you to hear Eliza here, Eliza k W eight M. 57 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine, 58 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: this little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine, 59 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine, Hide 60 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: it under a bush. No, I'm gonna let it shine, 61 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: hide it under a busha en. I'm gonna let it shine, 62 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: Let it shine, let it shine, Let it shine. Shine 63 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: all over Saint Mary School. I'm gonna let it shine, 64 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: shine all over Saint Mary School. I'm gonna let it shine. 65 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine. This 66 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine, this 67 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:03,119 Speaker 1: little light of mine. I'm gonna let it shine, Let 68 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 1: it shine, let it shine, let it shine. Miss you girls, 69 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: now you need to let the light shine at your 70 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: house and I will see you later. How many thousands 71 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: of times do you believe her? Little children toppers are 72 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: going to play that over and over and over as 73 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: they grow up without their mother. Where did it all start? 74 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: We know where it has culminated in the discovery of 75 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: Eliza's body. But between then and now, between Eliza singing 76 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: her song at Saint Mary's Church school to little children, 77 00:05:54,560 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: to jogging early for am that morning, we hear of 78 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: an award as they call it a reward, and we 79 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: hear of video emerging. Take a listen to Eliza's uncle 80 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: and our friends at Fox thirteen. The family has met 81 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: with police and we have shared with them all the 82 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: information we know. More than anything, we want to see 83 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: Liza returned home safely. The family has offered a reward 84 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: for any information that leads to her safe return. We 85 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: believe someone knows what happened and can help. If you 86 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: have any information on this crime or Eliza's location, call 87 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: the police at nine one five four or five cops, 88 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: or call crime Stoppers at nine one five two eight. 89 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: Cash joining me and I'll star panel to make sense 90 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: of what we know right now. But first I want 91 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: to go to Dave Mac Crime online dot com investigative 92 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: reporter Dave Mike. I want to go through the area 93 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: where she was jogging. But hold on, Dave Mac. Also 94 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: with me, Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists, joining us out 95 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. 96 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: You're very familiar with Memphis. Tell me Angela about the 97 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: area from which she was kidnapped. You know, Nancy, it's 98 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: a very nice area of town, right around the University 99 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: of Memphis and Central Avenue. And for people who like 100 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: to live in town. I grew up in town in Memphis. 101 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: It's a wonderful area to live. The houses are beautiful, 102 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: it's just a nice You know, Memphis is a small 103 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: it's a small town, but that is a nice in 104 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: town area to live for people who love being sort 105 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: of feeling like they're in the city. So an upscale area. Guys. 106 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut fifteen our friends at NBC. 107 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: According to an affidavit, around four am Friday, Fletcher went 108 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: for her usual early morning run. Police say about half 109 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: an hour later, they believe Cleota Apstein forced her into 110 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: this suv near the University of Memphis. Court documents saying 111 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: the suspect ran aggressively toward Fletcher amid a violent struggle. 112 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: She was allegedly inside the parked suv roughly four minutes 113 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: before it drove away. Do you have any sense of 114 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: what might have been going on in those four minutes? 115 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: In the criminal context, that's actually a very long time. 116 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: That's enough time for him to restrain her. That's enough 117 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: time for him to seriously harm her. To day make 118 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: joining me Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, the words 119 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: seriously harm, those are words tracking, tracking what police leaked, 120 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: and that is that they thought Eliza had suffered serious injury, 121 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: serious harm inside that GMC because it was covered with blood, 122 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: Dave Mack, isn't it true? This was all caught on 123 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: video surveillance. We're not taking anybody's word for it. Where 124 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: did that video surveillance come from? Is it something to 125 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: do with the university? Which is right there? Wasn't she 126 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: jogging the outside I believe of the university edges. Actually 127 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: the where it actually happened, the home right there was 128 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: owned by university and directly across the street. There was 129 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: surveillance footage that was able to capture the very dark, 130 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: but it captured as it took place. You mentioned what 131 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: they called an aggravated, very violent attack that you could 132 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: see apparently in this surveillance footage, the suspect attacking quickly 133 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: running up on Eliza, running up on her, attacking her 134 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 1: to the point where blood was found on the ground, 135 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: and then inside the vehicle, to Matthew Mangino joining me, 136 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: former prosecutor Lawrence County, former Parole board member, author of 137 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: the executioners, to now a private lawyer. He's at Matthew 138 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: T Mangino. Matthew, that is qualifying him for this special kidnap, 139 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: not just a kidnap, which is a felony in itself. 140 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: You can get twenty to life for kidnap. But this 141 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: is an extremely dangerous, seriously harmful kidnap. What does that 142 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: mean to you as a lawyer, Well, this would appear 143 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: to be, you know, an aggravated kidnapping. I mean he's 144 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: coming out of the vehicle. He's attacking this woman. As 145 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: we just heard, there's blood found outside of the vehicle, 146 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: there's blood found inside the vehicle. Uh, you know, this 147 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: is a very dangerous person who would randomly attack a 148 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: stranger like this and pull her into a vehicle. The 149 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: other thing that I found is that they found his 150 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: his flip flop flops, his sandals, uh you know, laying 151 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, along the road, which gives me the impression 152 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: that this is a crime of opportunity. If he was 153 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: out and he knew he was going to be attacking somebody, 154 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: he might be better prepared, you know, wearing you know, 155 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: sneakers or some sort of shoes that he knew he 156 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: would be able to rapidly approach somebody. But to see 157 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: these flip flops gives me the idea that this is 158 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: a guy driving by boom, he makes a decision and 159 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: it's a crime of opportunity. The woman's there. He has 160 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: a history and this is what he does. Disagree. You 161 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: think criminals are so smart they're gonna go, oh, maybe 162 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: I shouldn't wear kidnap flipflops to raping kidnap somebody. Hell no, 163 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: these are they, as you're saying, flip flops. They're the 164 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: type of cheese you see a lot of athletes wear 165 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: where they were socks and then slide in like Adidas 166 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 1: or Nike. Not really flip flops, but I guess it's 167 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: closest thing you can compare them too. But he was cruising, 168 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: stalking her for nearly half an hour. But before I 169 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: go to Jennifer, a coffin daff for a former FBI 170 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns is joining me. Chief Medical Examiner out 171 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: of Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth Lecturer, University of Texas 172 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: and Texas Christian University Medical School. Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank 173 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: you for being with us. Much has been made of 174 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: the blood that was found there at the scene where 175 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: he left his I guess flipplops, but also within his GMC. 176 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: A lot of people jumped to the conclusion that she 177 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: had been stabbed. I disagree. I think she was hit 178 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: immediately in the face to stun her, and anything around 179 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: your nose or your mouth causes a lot, a profuse 180 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: amount of bleeding. Why, those areas are really vascular. So 181 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: the oral micosa itself has a lot of blood vessels 182 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: in it, and then the nose as well, again has 183 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: a lot of blood vessels in it. So you get 184 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: hid in any of those regions who start bleeding quite profusely. 185 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: The other thing is you can have someone that has 186 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: a scalp laceration or cut on their scalps. The scalp 187 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: skin itself is also very highly vascular, and you can 188 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: get a lot of bleeding from that, more than you 189 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: would necessarily from other types of wombs. So anything about 190 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: the face, nose, mouth, had, scalp skin has got a 191 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: lot of blood vessels. You see a lot of blood. 192 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: You started off by saying it's highly vascular and regular 193 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: people taught. Does that mean there's a high concentration of 194 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: blood vessels. Yeah, a lot of blood vessels. Got time 195 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace Jennifer or a coffin effort with 196 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: me from her FBI now law Enforcement Network Analysts instructor 197 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: fire Arms Beyond International and she is a self defense 198 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: fire arms egg. Jennifer, thank you for being with us. 199 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: What about this? Don't you agree that the first thing 200 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: he would do is stun her by hitting her in 201 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: the face, I mean with a fist right in the nose, 202 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: in the face. I would say maybe the second thing, 203 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, I think his biggest thing was restrain her 204 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: and pulling her in the vehicle. But I have seen 205 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: no evidence or fact that there was a knife involved 206 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: or a weapon. People who commit these types of crimes 207 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: like to get personal, They like to attack, They like 208 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: to see the person in agony and screaming, and I 209 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: think that was this type of attack. So I have 210 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: to agree with you Nancy, that is stunned in the 211 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: face once he got her in that van could have 212 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: resulted in this blood evidence. Now, Matthew and Gino has 213 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: a really good point, although I disagree with it ultimately. 214 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: He's talking about the suspects slides, that's what they're called. 215 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: It's a solid van of plastic, typically over the top 216 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: of the foot, the toast sticking at and you slip 217 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: into him. Call slides and everybody makes him a Data's 218 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: Puma Nike. Everybody. They were still there and you know 219 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: what I love about the slide DNA. Now it would 220 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: be epiphilial DNA, which is off of your skin. And 221 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: very quickly, doctor Kendall Krouse, if you could explain how 222 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: awesome epiphelial DNA is and how easy it is now 223 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: that we understand it, how easy it is to find it. 224 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: So your epopelial layers, your thin layer of your outer 225 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: covering in your skin, and pretty much anytime you touch 226 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: a surface, you're leaving DNA on that surface. It's been 227 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: very good for the DNA analysis that we can find 228 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: it at off top season from doing swabs. So you 229 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: just think about any contact, any surface you come in 230 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: contact with, you've left a trace evidence, which is I 231 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: believe low cards principle. If I remember right right right, 232 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: Jennifer Coffin Daffer with me, former FBI agent Jennifer, I 233 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: want to talk to you about what Matthew and Jeno 234 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: said that this was a spur of the moment thing, 235 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Angie, Doctor Angela Arnold, a psychiatrist side of Atlanta. 236 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: Isn't it true that your network back in Memphis says 237 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: that this freak I had even say his name, but 238 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: I will CLOTHA Abston Abston had a habit of hanging 239 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: around the university making sex overtures to co eds, and 240 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: he did the same thing in his own neighborhood. Explain 241 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: that whole thing. I mean, if my husband, if I 242 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: if he even whistled at somebody number one, after I 243 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: got up off the ground from sainting, because I've never 244 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: do anything like that before, I would totally jerkingnot in 245 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: his neck, But I mean, what is that. You know, 246 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: somebody whistles it at you, or cat calls at you, 247 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: or says, hey, I give you a hundred dollars to 248 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: f me, which is what he was saying to women 249 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: in his neighborhood. But what is that? First of all, Nancy, 250 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: it's a very immature form of behavior for a grown 251 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: I don't know that I'd call it that. That's sudden, 252 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: that will get you shot by somebody's husband. They go ahead, 253 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: But it's and it shows such a lack of boundaries. 254 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: I mean, who, like you said, who doesn't ha it? 255 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: I thought I had doctor Angie Arnold on, I've just 256 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: got a guy who's done time for rape, agasalt theft, kidnapping, 257 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: copycat kidnapping, did twenty two years on a twenty four 258 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: year jail jail sentence, and she says there's a lack 259 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: of boundaries. You know, I'd like to cut her, mike, 260 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: but I just want to hear, just for the fun 261 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: of it, what she's about to say. Go, Hey, doctor Angie. 262 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: Well that's the first part that I wanted to say. 263 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: Now you're okay. I assume there's going to be an indendity, 264 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: but you know, to God, Nancy, let's just call him 265 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: what he is. Okay, he's a psychopath, that's what he is. Oh, 266 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: he's been doing he's been doing bad things. He was 267 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: twelve year old, eleven, But don't even start with he's crazy. 268 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: Sistay Our France at NBC. Around seven to fifty am, 269 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: roughly three hours after the abduction, the suspect's brother and 270 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: another witness telling investigators they saw him wash his clothes 271 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: in a sink and clean the inside of the car 272 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: with floor cleaner, according to an affidavit, the brother also 273 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: saying he was acting very strange that bizarre scene allegedly 274 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: unfolding less than a mile from where police discovered the 275 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: unidentified body late Monday. The affidavit also says Abston left 276 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: sandals behind authorities using DNA from those shoes to zero 277 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: in on him. Okay, doctor and she, don't even start 278 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: with the crazy talk, because here's a guy three hours 279 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: after Eliza as kidnapped and in my mind already killed. 280 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: She's dead. He has to wherewith all to think, Wow, right, 281 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: I need to clean out my GMC. I need to 282 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 1: do that right now before the cops come look at it. 283 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: So don't even start down that road that he's crazy, 284 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: he's a psychopath, blah blah blah. Well, you can be 285 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: a psychopath and not be called crazy. I'm not calling 286 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: him crazy, okay. I think that he is a very 287 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: evil person, and those kinds of people exist in our world. 288 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: Everything that they do is about evil. And he also 289 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 1: doesn't have a conscience about what he does. Sure, he 290 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: knows that he needs to clean out his car, he 291 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: didn't know that he shouldn't have left his shoes where 292 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: he did, but that none of those things make him crazy. 293 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: But he is the reason I call him a psychopath 294 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: is because he doesn't have any kind of conscience about 295 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: what he does. Can we get back to what your 296 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: network and mephist tells you about him? Propositioning co eds, 297 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: You know. You know, Lucy is fourteen. My little girl 298 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: and her twin brother, they're about to turn fifteen, believe 299 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: it or not, which means in three years they're going 300 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: to go to college. God willing have this hanging around 301 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: the campus propositioning teen girls for sex. It's very open, 302 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: it's very accessible. Co Eds are walking the streets all 303 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: the time. Okay, I mean, Nancy. It's sort of chilling 304 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: to me think about us. It's very chilling to me 305 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: to think that the people that I know knew that 306 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: he was doing us. Why would they know that exactly? 307 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: I don't know why they knowed us, but they knew 308 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: that he had a history of hanging around that campus 309 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: and cat calling the co eds. Let me go to 310 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: Matthew Mangina, a former prosecutor and author. Matthew Mangino, that's 311 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: just kind of evidence that will not come in to evidence, 312 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: although I wish would because I think it's very probitive. 313 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: There's no way a jury will ever hear that Clota 314 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: Abstin had a habit of propositioning teen girls for sex. 315 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: If I, if I was prosecuting the case, I would 316 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: try to present this as a prior prior bad axe 317 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: under four or four of the rules of evidence, you know. 318 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: So you know, I think there's a possibility that we 319 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: could get that information, and I will certainly try to 320 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: do that. But with regard to the issue that was 321 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: raised earlier, you know, there is no um sign that 322 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: this guy has any sort of insanity or anything like that. Uh. 323 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: He certainly tried to cover his tracks, He tried to 324 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: get rid of evidence. He knows the difference between right 325 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: and wrong. So you know, maybe he has some other 326 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: mental health issues, but they certainly are not going to 327 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: excuse any conduct, maybe mitigate, but not excuse. As you 328 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: know by now, the body of thirty four year old 329 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: mom Eliza Fletcher, the mom of two little boys, has 330 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: been discovered thrown into tall grass. Yards away from her 331 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: body were her Lululemon jockeing shorts that she has seen 332 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: pictured in with me and All Star Pound. To make 333 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now regarding the discovery 334 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: of Eliza's body, take us an hour cut fourteen our 335 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: friends at WRG A good wrenching discovery in South Memphis, 336 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: as detectives confirm a body was located a few yards 337 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: away from where Eliza Fletcher's alleged abductor came hours after 338 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: her kidnapping. Monday, Memphis police swarmed this area after finding 339 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: a body in an overgrown lot near a vacant home 340 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: on Victor Street. The scene just a stone's throw away 341 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: from where Memphis police say thirty eight year old Cleot 342 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: the absent came hours after abducting Fletcher. They believe he 343 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: cleaned blood from the interior of the suv used in 344 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: the abduction and washed his clothes and his brother's sink. Wow, 345 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: a lot of cleaning going on, washing his clothes and 346 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: his brother sink. Straight out to Dave Matt, crime online 347 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: dot Com invest to get a reporter. So it's true, 348 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: Dave mac Then it is actually caught on video of 349 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: the suspect cleaning out his GMC. Isn't that true? Absolutely? 350 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: It was caught on camera at seven forty five in 351 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: the morning, about five minutes before her husband called police 352 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: to notifiers she never came home from a run. What 353 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: time did the husband report her missing? It's just curious, 354 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: so she had been gone for three hours and fifteen 355 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: minutes roughly. To Jennifer Coffin Daffer, a former FBI, what 356 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: do you make of the nearly thirty minutes that he 357 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: stopped Eliza before forcing her into his GMC. Well, I 358 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: think this is telling this was not completely random. If 359 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: you will, he was either a waiting there because he 360 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: knew possibly her running patterns, or he was there because 361 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: he was stalking to try to find somebody. But if 362 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: you look at the time, it's not a time that's 363 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: going to instill a lot of people on that campus. 364 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: I mean, the prey is going to be very diminished 365 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: at four o'clock in the morning. So I find it 366 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: very interesting. I don't think that this was just he 367 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: was out driving around and decided to do this haphatically. 368 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: I think the slides, quite frankly, are irrelevant in that 369 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: scenario because this is what he wore. This is how 370 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: he dressed every day. So he's going out and he's 371 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: on campus waiting seemingly for her. We say him cleaning 372 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: out his car very carefully at his brother's. But to 373 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: doctor Kennel Crown, Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County, a regular 374 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: bleach or dechurgent won't do it. You need something like 375 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: a sulfuric acid base such as black swan. That's the 376 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: only thing that might get rid of DNA, so he 377 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: can clean all day long and wash his clothes and 378 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: his brothers sink. But it ain't happening in Doctor Kinnel crowns. 379 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: That's not going to work. Yeah, it's correct, Nancy. Usual 380 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: cleaning products aren't gonna wash away the stain of the 381 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: blood and the DNA from the victims, so you have 382 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: to go to a lot of efforts to really get 383 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: rid of it, short of burning it or something along 384 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: those lines. But yeah, just typical cleaning supplies aren't going 385 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: to do the trick. Also, I just like to interjectorial 386 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: quickly that you know, this is not the first time 387 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 1: we've discussed the case where someone was stalking to someone, 388 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: So I see it all the time. If you run 389 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: the same route, drive the same way, there's always someone 390 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: watching in wait and Achillia. So you know, think about 391 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: mixing it up a case, William, maybe you won't die. 392 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: I was thinking about Dennis Rader, you know, the BT 393 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: case strangler. He stalked his victims that knew their routine, 394 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: and it reminded me a little bit of that type 395 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: of an emo that he was there. I agree completely, 396 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: and Nancy, my intel tells me and I think this 397 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 1: is important to know. The reports of him being hanging 398 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: around the University of Memphis campus came out immediately after 399 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: she was kidnapped, but no one had said anything prior 400 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: to her being kidnapped. Okay, so he had been around, 401 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: people had seen him, but the reports didn't come out 402 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: until after she was kidnapped that people had seen a 403 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: black man in a black suv hanging around the University 404 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: of Memphis. And then the discovery Eliza takeleas n cut 405 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: seventeen our friends at Fox thirteen in the past ten minutes. 406 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: Memphis police confirming those new details, saying that the body 407 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: they found yesterday is that of missing mother Eliza Fletcher, 408 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: and now the man they had in custody, already charged 409 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: with her kidnapping, faces murder charges. And this is coming 410 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: just about sixteen hours after they discovered a body here 411 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: not far, they said, within walking distance to an apartment 412 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: complex where the thirty eight year old Cleota Absen was 413 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: seen cleaning his suv shortly after the abduction. To Matthew 414 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: Mangino joining us, Matthew Mangino, that's certainly not going to 415 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: engender a lot of warm, fuzzy feelings. But on a 416 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: behalf of a jury when they see cleova Absen cleaning 417 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 1: his car trying to wash blood out of his clothes. 418 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: I can't wait to find out about the evidence down 419 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: that Saint drain and her body is just a few 420 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: hundred feet away. He's that close to her body that 421 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: he's thrown out according to police and tall graph and 422 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: left there to decompose. In fact, what lamp police there 423 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: was the quote stitch that neighbors had described of her 424 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: decomposing and a swarm of flies. And there he is 425 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: a hundred yards away, frantically cleaning his car and washing 426 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: his shirt. Just conjure up that image in your mind. 427 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: Matthew Minngina, What do you do with that at trial? Well? Yeah, 428 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. 429 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that he's the devil. He's straight 430 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: from hell. Well yeah, I mean, you know, we talked 431 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: earlier about the fact that you know, he's he's a 432 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: psycho past. He has no remorse, he doesn't have any conscience, 433 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: but he's not all He's also not very smart. It 434 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: doesn't seem um, you know, you're going to try to 435 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: you know, don't care every smart Why why are you 436 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: telling me he's not smart? I'm asking you, what do 437 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: you do when the devil who is busy washing his 438 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: T shirt and her body's about a hundred yards away? 439 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: What do you do with that? At trial? How do 440 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: you put that mental image out of the jury's mind. Well, 441 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: you try to first, you try to work out a 442 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: plea because the trial is not going to be very 443 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: good to you know, they got the death penalty in Tennessee, right, 444 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: they can have the needle. If you could save his life, 445 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: that would be That would be the best the defense 446 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: attorney could probably do. Yeah, if you could save his life, 447 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: have fun with that. Jennifer Coffin daffer with me, former 448 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: FBI agent and crime victim. You know we're talking, Jennifer 449 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: about him washing likely Eliza's blood out of his shirt, 450 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: her two little babies at home, probably still asleep. Is 451 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: seven thirty seven fifty in the morning. He's trying to 452 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: get rid of evidence. What do you think haven't been 453 00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: a crime victim yourself or her last moments? Jennifer, describe 454 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: what you went through. Oh, Nancy, you just gave me 455 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: a chill bumps in recalling this. But essentially, you know, 456 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: people think this is some sort of organized situation. When 457 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: you're attacked, it's not. It's chaos. You're fighting for your life. 458 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: He's fighting to take your life, and you know, flip 459 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: flops are flying, you know you're in pain. You do 460 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: the best you can to keep your head about you 461 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: so that you can survive. You do the best to 462 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: get out of the grasp and U Sometimes it's extremely 463 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: difficult when someone is much larger than you. You know, 464 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: I was really it hit home with me when I 465 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: saw him at his hearing. His hands were so big 466 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: and he was tall. They look like too Virginia hands. 467 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: His hands are huge, And I was thinking about those 468 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: last moments Nancy, and she was terrified. But I have 469 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: to believe she fought for her life and was just 470 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: overcome with the power of him. Time stories with Nancy Grace. 471 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: Dave Matt correct me if I'm wrong on these facts. 472 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: But the jeep cleotha absence jeep. His GMC sat there 473 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: for about four minutes before he took off. I bet 474 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: he was beating her to subdue her. Think about it, Nancy. 475 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: He aggressively attacked her on the street to get her 476 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: inside the vehicle, and she oh, this is a woman 477 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: for his size. She was in good shape. She qualified 478 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: for the Boston Marathon. She's five six, one hundred and 479 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: thirty plus pounds. She's not a weak woman, and she 480 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: fought hard. He still got her in that vehicle, and 481 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, four minutes after the attack, he gets 482 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: her and he's got her inside that vehicle. We don't 483 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: know what goes on, but we know that for four 484 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: minutes he did anything and everything he possibly could and 485 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: then took off. Yahy, what do we know about Cleosa 486 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: absintakelist and our cut twelve our friends at Boston. As 487 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: a seventeen year old in the year two thousand, he 488 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: was charged with especially aggravated kidnapping and aggravated robbery. A 489 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: press account from the Memphis Flyer written in October two 490 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: thousand and one, tells the story of his victim, an 491 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: attorney had a well known Memphis law firm, kidnapped at 492 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: gunpoint as he was leaving Bill Street and thrown into 493 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: the trunk of his own car. Abston, the Flyers said, 494 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: drove the victim's car around to pick up friends before 495 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: showing up at a Mapco station. That's where Abston demanded 496 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: the victim withdraw money from an ATM before running away 497 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: after getting spooked by a Memphis Housing Authority officer walking 498 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: into the store at the same time running away. That victim, 499 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: the first kidnapping victim of Cleotha Absence that we know of, 500 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: went on to recount how he believed he would have 501 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: been killed if not for a codefendant that kept talking 502 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: to Abson saying, don't don't kill this man. You gotta 503 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: let him go, You gotta let him go, and the 504 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: victim was in the trunk hearing all this. He also 505 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: described Cleotha Absen as braggadocious behind bars, bragging about the event. 506 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: This guy will probably bragg about murdering Eliza Fletcher, and 507 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: I can al as distasteful as that is, I can 508 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: only pray that he does so it could be used 509 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: at trial against him. Speaking of his long and notorious 510 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: rap sheet take a Listen to Our cut thirteen our 511 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,760 Speaker 1: friends at Fox thirteen. He was eventually arrested in charge 512 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: with especially aggravated kidnapping, and after waiting in jail sixteen 513 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: months before a trial, eventually decided to plead guilty to 514 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: both charges. He was sentenced to twenty four years with 515 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: credit for time served. State Department of Correction record show 516 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: absten was released from prison in November twenty twenty, less 517 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: than two years later. Police accused Abstin of doing the 518 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: same thing and refusing to tell them where Eliza Fletcher 519 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 1: is located. Was there a chance of saving her life? 520 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: We don't know, but he sat there angel after it's 521 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: revealed that's him on the video kidnapping her, refusing to 522 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: tell police where she was. Could she have been saved? 523 00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: Let's talk about his past rape, aggravated assault, theft, kidnapping, 524 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,720 Speaker 1: and now this, why was this guy out walking around? 525 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 1: Why wasn't he behind bars? Number one? Jennifer Coffin Daff 526 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 1: joining me, former fed with the FBI. He was treated 527 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: as a juvenile when the rape occurred. He was a juvenile. 528 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: Now he started committing felonies at age eleven. The rape 529 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: that he committed I believe was when he was sixteen. 530 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: He could have been treated as an adult then, but 531 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: he wasn't. Somebody let him off and rape as one 532 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: of the seven deadlies. And what I mean by that, 533 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: Jennifer Coffin Daff, is the seven felonies which will send 534 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: you straight to adult court if you are a juvenile 535 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: over let's just say thirteen fourteen, and they are obviously murder, rape, sodomy, 536 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: child molestation, aggravated assault, armed robbery, arson BAM not hard 537 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: to figure out. That means you have a propensity for 538 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: violence on other human beings. And I mean, would it, 539 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: could have? Should it? That doesn't do anything for me. 540 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: But if if he had been treated as an adult 541 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: on the rate which should have with that level of severity, 542 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: he would have been in jail. It's very simple. But 543 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: instead he's out, as doctor Angie has described, heckling co 544 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: eds and propositioning them for sex at the university. And 545 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:39,720 Speaker 1: then who shows up four o'clock am jogging Eliza Fletcher? 546 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: What about it, Jennifer Well, Nancy, I think many of 547 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:52,479 Speaker 1: us stand believing that these early releases, these light sentences 548 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: treating juveniles who are doing adult criminal acts need to 549 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 1: receive the harsh to punishment and in my view, should 550 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: not receive early release options. It's pretty clear Cliosa Absen 551 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: was not rehabilitated in any way, and it's just a 552 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: failure to society to early release these types of criminals. 553 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: In my opinion, the video footage is going to be 554 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: damning I think there's a strong possibility, since he stought 555 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: Eliza for thirty minutes, and because he committed a murder 556 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: according to police, in the commission of a felony, I 557 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: believe that felony will be rape. I don't know what 558 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: assumption you can draw from her Lululemon jogging shorts, being 559 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 1: in a trash bag away from her body, but to me, 560 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 1: that's his rape. And given his propensity to proposition teen 561 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: girls for sex, I mean I think two and two 562 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: stillcals four. Those are both qualifying aggravating circumstances for the 563 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: Tennessee penalty, which again, as I mentioned, is a choice 564 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: between the needle where you just drift off to sleep, 565 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,280 Speaker 1: unlike your victim that dies in pain and fear, or 566 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: the electric chair. To doctor Kendall Crowns, in this scenario, 567 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: what do you believe is a likely co d cause 568 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: of death? Most likely because of death on this point 569 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: would be a strangulation, would be by as function. He 570 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 1: could have met her about the head of doctor unconscious 571 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: but or continued to beat her. But it's more than 572 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: likely a strangulation, you know. To Jennifer Coffin Daffer, a 573 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: lot of people are trying to make connections between The 574 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: first kidnapped victim was at the same law firm as 575 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: Eliza's uncle, who was the family spokesperson. Was somebody in 576 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: the family involved. Was this for money because our grandparents 577 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: were super rich because they started a really big hardware store. 578 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: Everybody's looking for a connection, and maybe there is. But 579 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: what's even scarier to me, Jennifer, is there's a very 580 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,839 Speaker 1: strong possibility there's not a connection. And you know why 581 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: people don't like that, Jennifer. They don't like it because 582 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: that means this could happen to them. If there's a connection, 583 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: you can go, oh, well, it's the cousin who was 584 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,720 Speaker 1: related to this, and there was a vendetta, blah blah, 585 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: what had nothing to do with me. That's simply not true. 586 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: This can happen to anybody, and nobody wants to think that, Jennifer. Well, 587 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: no one wakes up in the morning, Nancy and says, 588 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: I think I'm going to be a victim this morning. 589 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: No one does it. They find themselves in a situation 590 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: where they're alone, they're vulnerable, and somebody with no conscious 591 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: somebody who's evil, preys upon them. So I agree with 592 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: you Nancy that it's a situation that everybody needs to 593 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: prepare for and to be aware of so that they 594 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: can avoid or at least lessen their possibilities of being attacked. Yeahs, 595 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to hear our cut seven that we obtained 596 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: from kW A M as we sign off, this little 597 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine, this little 598 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: light of mine. I'm gonna let it shine, Let it shine, 599 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: let it shine, let it shine. This you girls, and 600 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: you need to let the light shine at your house 601 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: and I will see you later. Good bye, friend.