WEBVTT - Most Companies Talk Creativity; Few Walk It. Art Can Help

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<v Speaker 1>Six investment bankers walk into an arts studio. No, that's

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<v Speaker 1>not the start of the joke. Turns out they needed

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<v Speaker 1>to feel safe and be left alone to do what Well,

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<v Speaker 1>feel safe and be left alone with their thoughts or

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<v Speaker 1>waste of time? Hardly who knew these folks were also needy?

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<v Speaker 1>Aren't they? The masters of the universe? Amy Whittaker of

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<v Speaker 1>New York University tells us why Amy's written about and

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<v Speaker 1>taught the intersection between finance, economics, and art. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Benchmark, a show about the global economy. I'm Daniel

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<v Speaker 1>moss I write and edit global economics for Bloomberg View,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm Scott Landman and economics editor with Bloomberg News

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<v Speaker 1>in Washington. Amy, it's so great to have you with us.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for having me on. Great to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>You're the author of art thinking how to carve out

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<v Speaker 1>creative spice in a world of schedules, budgets and bosses.

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<v Speaker 1>Well we'll get to those last three qualifies in just

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<v Speaker 1>a second, but I want to come to this phrase

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<v Speaker 1>that you use that's originally attributed to Daniel Pink m

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<v Speaker 1>f I is the new MBI explain. I think It's

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<v Speaker 1>one of these things that relates to the stereotypes that

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<v Speaker 1>we all have of art business, and even the sexy

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<v Speaker 1>overlap of art and business. When Daniel Pink wrote that

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<v Speaker 1>in the Harvard Business Review in two thousand four, I

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<v Speaker 1>already had an m b A and I was studying

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<v Speaker 1>for an m f A and painting in London. I

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<v Speaker 1>would show up at the studio and my colleague painter

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<v Speaker 1>would be in three piece pen stripe tails, painting at

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<v Speaker 1>nine in the morning, having been out all night. And

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<v Speaker 1>that is not something that ever happened when I was

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<v Speaker 1>in business school. I think the idea is that creativity

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<v Speaker 1>is really important in business. So that's an idea we've

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<v Speaker 1>had at least since Shupiter. But the question is really

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<v Speaker 1>how culturally we make space for that. Now. Does the

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<v Speaker 1>m f A is a new m b A paradigm

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<v Speaker 1>survive the post two thousand a night world. The post

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight world is a great example of

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<v Speaker 1>art as a really really broad process. This idea that

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<v Speaker 1>we live in a point a world and then something happens,

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<v Speaker 1>whether we do it ourselves or it happens outside of

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<v Speaker 1>our control, that completely turns the world upside down and

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<v Speaker 1>changes all of our assumptions the idea of the m

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<v Speaker 1>f A as the new m b A. On the

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<v Speaker 1>one hand, it survives in perpetuity because all of us

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<v Speaker 1>have a creative and a practical self and need more

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<v Speaker 1>space to own both. And on the other hand, you

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<v Speaker 1>could easily say that two thousight was the result of

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<v Speaker 1>overly creative thinking and markets and about risk. Now let's

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<v Speaker 1>let's go back to what Dan talked about at the top,

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<v Speaker 1>which was the six investment bankers who walk into an

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<v Speaker 1>art studio. How does your training in art square with

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<v Speaker 1>that picture that we're painting? That picture with words that

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<v Speaker 1>Dn just painted, and you invoted six, how many showed up?

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<v Speaker 1>I yielded six. I invited about thirty five. Now I

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<v Speaker 1>probably invited ten. The first year I was in art school,

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<v Speaker 1>we had a show at the end of the year,

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<v Speaker 1>and for some reason, honestly, probably dealing with my own

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<v Speaker 1>vulnerability getting back to making art after having an MBA,

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<v Speaker 1>I decided that there was this question of who's an

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<v Speaker 1>artist and what kind of work gets made. So think

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<v Speaker 1>of the kind of art you've seen that makes you

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<v Speaker 1>most skeptical about modern and contemporary art, Like a hundred

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<v Speaker 1>bicycle pump sealed in a can of large Joseph boys,

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<v Speaker 1>or something that's an event or a you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>broom and a bucket with an extensive wall label. I

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<v Speaker 1>was kind of thinking about the frame of art, and

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<v Speaker 1>I thought, everyone is an artist. Everyone's neatly creative. So

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<v Speaker 1>I invited some friends. None of them were actually investment bankers,

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<v Speaker 1>because the art studio building closed at ten pm and

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<v Speaker 1>none of the investment bankers are off work at that time.

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<v Speaker 1>It was investment managers and attorneys. And there are six

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<v Speaker 1>of them who came, and I have to say, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the most important thing was to leave them alone and

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<v Speaker 1>let them do their own thing. And they were hilarious

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<v Speaker 1>and brave. There's a guy called Guy who was an

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<v Speaker 1>economist through and through, who came and made an abstract

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<v Speaker 1>artwork and then came back the second week and completely

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<v Speaker 1>changed the artwork in a way that requires all the

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<v Speaker 1>moral courage you'll ever bring to a painting. My own

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<v Speaker 1>tutor and art school stop by to tell me he

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<v Speaker 1>really liked the direction my work was taking, and uh,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it just reminded me that everyone has this

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<v Speaker 1>capacity to be an artist. And I mean that in

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<v Speaker 1>the sense of the exact moment you have a paint

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<v Speaker 1>brush in your hand and you have to put it

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<v Speaker 1>on a canvas. All of us have that moment in

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<v Speaker 1>our daily lives, in our time in the art studio,

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<v Speaker 1>figuratively speaking, and so it was really fun fun to

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<v Speaker 1>watch that. Now some of our listeners might and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>wrestling with this myself. It can sometimes seem a little

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<v Speaker 1>frivolous to link art to the serious, hard decisions that

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<v Speaker 1>take place in a safe suite. It's trilled down a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit. What is the link? I think we actually

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<v Speaker 1>live in a time when the art world is a

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<v Speaker 1>bit insulated from its own civic, economic, and political importance

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<v Speaker 1>outside of itself. When I talk about art, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>mean paintings and museums. I mean the human capacity for creativity,

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<v Speaker 1>the thing that will become increasingly important as work gets automated,

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<v Speaker 1>the thing that only people can do. So the way

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<v Speaker 1>I think about it is kind of folkasy, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of my parents and some thing that my

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<v Speaker 1>father once said he was a neurologist and our mother

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<v Speaker 1>is a medievalist. And he was once asked how they

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<v Speaker 1>got along being in such different fields, and he said,

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<v Speaker 1>He was in the business of saving lives, but she

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<v Speaker 1>was in the business of making lives where it's saving,

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<v Speaker 1>And I always loved that because they did the opposite.

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<v Speaker 1>He helped people with quality of life issues like headaches

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<v Speaker 1>and the inability to walk, and she helped people with

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<v Speaker 1>basic survival skills like writing and complete sentences. So I

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<v Speaker 1>think the reason art matters in the c suite is

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<v Speaker 1>because it represents a spaciousness of curiosity and skepticism. And

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter a hundred percent. It matters in a

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<v Speaker 1>portfolio since that you just need some space for it.

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<v Speaker 1>You can think of it as the alternatives allocation in

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<v Speaker 1>your investment portfolio. You'd never want to be a hundred

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<v Speaker 1>percent in bitcoin, but you might want to own a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit of it. So what does that have to

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<v Speaker 1>do with the term creative destruction? You did mention Jupiter earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>He's credited with coining that phrase. Why is he so

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<v Speaker 1>important in your work? What does that have to do

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<v Speaker 1>with art? The idea of creative destruction, I think is

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<v Speaker 1>the original way that economics as a field grappled with

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<v Speaker 1>creativity because economics traditionally is based on the idea of competition.

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<v Speaker 1>So Sjupiter is making a case for creative destruction that

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<v Speaker 1>you have to think imaginatively or you will be competed away.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think all of us can relate to this

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<v Speaker 1>idea that ultimately there's no such thing as stasis. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a constancy of change. You know, if you had an

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<v Speaker 1>amazing haircut in night four, it's probably not still an

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<v Speaker 1>amazing haircut. If you had a great business model in

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<v Speaker 1>the industry you're in is evolved beyond that. So for me,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm less interested in the destruction part of it, which

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<v Speaker 1>is fear based, right, you better be creative or you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be in trouble, and more about it as

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<v Speaker 1>a form of expansiveness and the root of being able

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<v Speaker 1>to bring your whole person or your actual sense of

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<v Speaker 1>self and judgment into the workplace. Now, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>words in the title of your book is budgets, And

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<v Speaker 1>the reason I'm raising that word specifically is most companies

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<v Speaker 1>like to talk about words like creativity and certainly give

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<v Speaker 1>voice to its importance. They also don't like to be

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<v Speaker 1>too dependent on one particular product. Yet number crunches can

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<v Speaker 1>kill an idea before it's even born. Now, with art,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't necessarily know what you're creating. So like, that's

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<v Speaker 1>even worse for a number crunch er, isn't it. It is,

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<v Speaker 1>It's terrible, it's the worst. It's it just is. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's the It's the kind of risk that's worth taking.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the worst thing that can happen in the

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<v Speaker 1>workplace is to get a perfect answer to a question

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<v Speaker 1>and then realize that you're asking the wrong question. In

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<v Speaker 1>the first place, a number cruncher can get a perfect

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<v Speaker 1>answer to the wrong question. I think the reason art

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<v Speaker 1>matters is that art is part of the compass. It's

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<v Speaker 1>part of the orientation for how you move forward when

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have a template, when the past patterns are

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<v Speaker 1>the only thing that will help you in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't think this idea is unrooted from expertise

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<v Speaker 1>in finance already Oslaft to motor in who teaches valuation,

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<v Speaker 1>and y U has a new book on narrative versus

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<v Speaker 1>numbers and the necessity of both. I'm in no way

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<v Speaker 1>of suggesting that you shelve your analytic self. I'm suggesting

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<v Speaker 1>that your analytic self is brought to life by the

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<v Speaker 1>other parts of yourself that are creative and imaginative amy.

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<v Speaker 1>One way maybe we can bring this discussion more into

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<v Speaker 1>global economics is to talk about a subject that we've

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<v Speaker 1>covered on this program before um, which is the you know,

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<v Speaker 1>why productivity has been so low in recent years, why

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<v Speaker 1>growth has been low in this recovery. We've had Robert

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<v Speaker 1>Gordon and Eric Brynjolfson on on the podcast before. Gordon,

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<v Speaker 1>as you probably know, talks about how technological advances haven't

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<v Speaker 1>compared in recent years to the ones that were you know,

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<v Speaker 1>say a hundred years ago, like the invention, invention of electricity, plumbing,

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<v Speaker 1>and so forth, you know, things that probably required some

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<v Speaker 1>of the art thinking that you mentioned. Do you feel

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<v Speaker 1>or have you seen that in a historic sense there

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<v Speaker 1>is less of this art thinking today that can drive

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<v Speaker 1>the economy or the economies of the world. I think

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<v Speaker 1>one of the challenges is that we live in an

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<v Speaker 1>era of short term measures of success quarterly earnings. Electricity

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<v Speaker 1>is a great example. Electricity. The original charity experiments were

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<v Speaker 1>not done with an outcome in mind. They were done

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<v Speaker 1>as a side project out of curiosity. No one really

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<v Speaker 1>understood how they would work and how important they would become.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a very beautiful essay called the usefulness of useless knowledge.

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<v Speaker 1>About this if you want to check it out. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think we lack the capacity right now for what

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<v Speaker 1>I would call a cathedral business. Not a business that

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<v Speaker 1>returned some money to venture capitalists in eighteen months to

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<v Speaker 1>four years, but businesses that are important and have the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of nobility of creating, you know, shar Tra or

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<v Speaker 1>Notre Dame. But we lack the ability to embrace that

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<v Speaker 1>time horizon. We lack the ability to be essentially value

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<v Speaker 1>investors in that particular sense. Now you've talked about companies here,

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<v Speaker 1>what about the people who populate the companies? What about

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<v Speaker 1>executives who are just stuck. They've had a great track record,

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<v Speaker 1>but they know they need to get to another place

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<v Speaker 1>to adapt to avoid their own destruction. How does art

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<v Speaker 1>help them? I think this is such a great question

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<v Speaker 1>because I think one of the difficulties in that scenario

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<v Speaker 1>is what you do once you've already been successful. And

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<v Speaker 1>this happens in anything. It definitely happens if you're making

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<v Speaker 1>a painting. But you develop a set of skills, they

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<v Speaker 1>serve you the new world it or requires a different

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<v Speaker 1>set of skills, or this is the creative instruction moment

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<v Speaker 1>where you have to edge out a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>your past success to make room for a new experiment.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think the thing that we need the most

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<v Speaker 1>in that situation is culturally what I would call a

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<v Speaker 1>holding environment, a space in which it's okay to take

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<v Speaker 1>risks and to share vulnerability about moving forward. And most

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<v Speaker 1>workplaces don't have space for that. And has that gone

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<v Speaker 1>down in recent years? I mean, would you say, based

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<v Speaker 1>on your research, there's less of that happening today than

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<v Speaker 1>there wasn't the past, or or you know, how would

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<v Speaker 1>you characterize it? I think there's a delicate cocktail of

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<v Speaker 1>distractions of technology and enhance stabilities to measure outputs that

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<v Speaker 1>makes it really hard to have those conversations, because those

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<v Speaker 1>conversations sometimes feel like wasting time. New projects just feel

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<v Speaker 1>unfamiliar and slightly ridiculous, And at least for me, if

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<v Speaker 1>I if I come up with a good idea, there

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<v Speaker 1>were fifty awful, hilariously bad ideas in front of it,

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<v Speaker 1>and fifty more that weren't even funny. That we're just

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<v Speaker 1>like just bad. And to be able to have colleagues

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<v Speaker 1>where you have the capacity conversationally to run through those

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<v Speaker 1>ideas and to have tools in the workplace for clearly

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<v Speaker 1>identifying the questions and values that are driving you from

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<v Speaker 1>the outset, so that once you get to those ridiculously

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<v Speaker 1>bad ideas, you can discuss them without it feeling serious

0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.240
<v Speaker 1>like you're about to break the whole place. If you

0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.520
<v Speaker 1>know why you're having the conversation, and if that's established,

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.520
<v Speaker 1>then there's a lot more space for kind of working

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 1>through what the different possibilities are to answer the question.

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.240
<v Speaker 1>To get back to the executive for a second, how

0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.160
<v Speaker 1>many seasoned executives who have spent decades at the same

0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:56.200
<v Speaker 1>company done pretty well for themselves are prepared to use

0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:01.520
<v Speaker 1>art to take a leap to destination known? Aren't they

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.679
<v Speaker 1>trying to have some sense of what the destination is?

0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.839
<v Speaker 1>But you seem to be saying forget all that. The

0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.520
<v Speaker 1>premise of art thinking is that if you're making a

0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 1>work of art in any field, you're not going from

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 1>a known point A to a known point B. You're

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.880
<v Speaker 1>inventing point B. And a manager, seasoned manager in a

0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.560
<v Speaker 1>large corporation has a portfolio of projects. You can picture

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 1>BCG growth share matrix. They're all the different boxes of

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.400
<v Speaker 1>things that you know, the cow and the dog and

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.640
<v Speaker 1>the star and the question mark, and what we're talking

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.160
<v Speaker 1>about here is a part of the whole. We're talking

0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.720
<v Speaker 1>about the question mark. We're talking about the things that

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.280
<v Speaker 1>have high potential but are not yet demonstrated. And I

0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 1>think that the biggest thing I would say to that

0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 1>executive is that we have archetypes right now of what

0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 1>a creative manager is that I honestly think are a

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.960
<v Speaker 1>little bit outdated. We picture someone who's a guru, and

0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 1>Steve Jobs is an amazing human being in an incredible

0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.760
<v Speaker 1>visionary But I think what we actually need, or what

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 1>I would call good enough managers, managers who can hold

0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.480
<v Speaker 1>the space for their teams to rise up and solve problems.

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.160
<v Speaker 1>I think most of the challenges that corporations and even

0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.600
<v Speaker 1>society space are so large they're not solved by individual people.

0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.640
<v Speaker 1>So this idea of the kind of mythic artist or

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:23.160
<v Speaker 1>the gallant, imaginative CEO are are really doing us a

0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 1>disservice in terms of harnessing the collective intelligence of the team.

0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.680
<v Speaker 1>And are these the kinds of things that can you know,

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.160
<v Speaker 1>boost the size of a company, boost profits, boost jobs,

0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 1>and help the economy in general. Well, I think that

0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:43.280
<v Speaker 1>we're really talking about value. When I think of art,

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.880
<v Speaker 1>I think about the creation of value. So there are

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.040
<v Speaker 1>many different things that boost jobs and profits that are

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.880
<v Speaker 1>not about the creation of value. They can be about,

0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, making bad investments that don't get over your

0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.680
<v Speaker 1>hurdle rate, but that grow the size of your kind

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.960
<v Speaker 1>of net income. Or they can be about uh, you know,

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 1>risk taking or extraction of value or short term profiting.

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 1>I think what we're really talking about are things that

0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.600
<v Speaker 1>create long term value across many different categories of what

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 1>value is. And I can imagine that that sounds naively

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.600
<v Speaker 1>idealistic to someone who has been running a division of

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.000
<v Speaker 1>a company or a company for a long time, But

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 1>I actually think that there's room in the portfolio of

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the managerial skill set for kind of willful impracticality and

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.240
<v Speaker 1>idealism that if managers aren't making space for that, then

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.360
<v Speaker 1>who is. There's room for that, but will they actually

0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.880
<v Speaker 1>make space for it. It's the question that's why there's

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.200
<v Speaker 1>a portfolio of view to this. This is why, and

0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm working on this now, but why we need to

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:51.400
<v Speaker 1>create r o I dashboards or return on asset dashboards

0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.960
<v Speaker 1>internally that include a wedge of the pie that serves

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 1>creative work and that can be measured in a number

0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.760
<v Speaker 1>of different ways. There's a company called to sixty one

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.439
<v Speaker 1>that embeds artists incorporations and they measure the output in

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 1>terms of reduced cycle time on R and D. So

0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.639
<v Speaker 1>there are lots of ways to quantify and measure, but

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.960
<v Speaker 1>they're often process based measures or their value measures that

0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.119
<v Speaker 1>are not pure short term profit. I mean, this is

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 1>a this is a real challenge in the economy, and

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.200
<v Speaker 1>I think the reason I think it's important to name

0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 1>is not just kind of idealistically to name it, but

0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.320
<v Speaker 1>to say, you know, these are the questions we need

0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.359
<v Speaker 1>to answer. These may not be the questions we have

0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.760
<v Speaker 1>perfect data for, but they're the questions we actually need

0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.359
<v Speaker 1>to grapple it now. In your book, you also bring

0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:40.159
<v Speaker 1>cinema into this. You talk about Dallas, Bias Club and

0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.600
<v Speaker 1>Inside Out, two movies which don't seem to have a

0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 1>lot in common. What's the lesson there? Well, I have

0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:48.479
<v Speaker 1>to say it's a It's a book with a lot

0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.920
<v Speaker 1>of different topics in it, and everyone who writes a

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.440
<v Speaker 1>book should have the privilege of having their book translated

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 1>into Chinese by this lovely man and Yon fang. You will,

0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.440
<v Speaker 1>you will, You're about to tell us that you have

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 1>right I have. Well, it's the most humbling thing that's

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.960
<v Speaker 1>happened to me in many years. And editing a book

0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.359
<v Speaker 1>is humbling for anyone who's telling you the truth. But

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 1>having your book translated by Jan Fayg, you're like, yeah,

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 1>these are pretty disparate examples. I do need to do

0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.160
<v Speaker 1>a little bit across cultural explaining. So Dallas Buyer's Club

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.640
<v Speaker 1>and Inside Out come from really different parts of art

0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:27.159
<v Speaker 1>thinking framework. Dallas Buyer's Club encapsulates the idea of the producer,

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.119
<v Speaker 1>and we know what movie producers are, but the idea

0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.640
<v Speaker 1>of the producer is broader than that. And it's anyone

0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.680
<v Speaker 1>in a corporate environment who's taking on the secondary creative

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.880
<v Speaker 1>work of commercializing an idea or making it economically viable.

0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.439
<v Speaker 1>So you have this brainstorming moment you come up with

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.359
<v Speaker 1>something amazing. The producers the person who actually brings it

0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.920
<v Speaker 1>into reality, and their job is incredibly resourceful, involves ingenuity

0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:56.320
<v Speaker 1>instant and these two instances. The producers of Dallas Buyer's

0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Club had a roughly four million dollar budget. Matthew McConaughey,

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.159
<v Speaker 1>the lead in the movie had lost thirty eight of

0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 1>forty pounds, getting ready to play an emaciated person ravage

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:13.280
<v Speaker 1>by the HIV virus. They had to call him right

0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.760
<v Speaker 1>before they were set to shoot to say that their

0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.280
<v Speaker 1>funding had fallen through and that they have to postpone,

0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.680
<v Speaker 1>and in the most relatively angry moment I've heard of,

0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.119
<v Speaker 1>he said, polately, you'll have to figure that out, kind

0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.080
<v Speaker 1>of hung up the phone, and they did. And the

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.399
<v Speaker 1>way they figured it out is that they cut the

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.680
<v Speaker 1>entire lighting budget of the film, which saved them about

0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 1>a million dollars. If you watch that movie, it's naturally lit,

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.639
<v Speaker 1>which I think gives it a gritty authenticity that is

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.639
<v Speaker 1>part of its effectiveness. The head and a code to me,

0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 1>I'll have to watch it again very quickly. Inside Out.

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.600
<v Speaker 1>Inside Out is an example of Pixar's brain trust process

0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 1>idea of radical candor and warmth of feedback. Uh The

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.440
<v Speaker 1>a director of the film, was three years into the

0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.920
<v Speaker 1>development process, couldn't figure out the central question, was afraid

0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.360
<v Speaker 1>he'd lose his job, thought about how that would affect

0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.600
<v Speaker 1>his life, and made a huge pivot to be able

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 1>to move forward in what was really important about it.

0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.560
<v Speaker 1>So it's an example of being able to identify the

0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:24.560
<v Speaker 1>question and the value system and the the warmth of

0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:29.440
<v Speaker 1>the interaction around creative work. Amy last question, is there

0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.760
<v Speaker 1>a hope for corporate America without this kind of art

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:36.680
<v Speaker 1>thinking that you've been that you've been talking about. I

0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.080
<v Speaker 1>would like to think that there's a hope for corporate

0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.879
<v Speaker 1>America no matter what, because corporate America is really a

0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.560
<v Speaker 1>collection of people who happen to work inside companies. Economics

0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:49.520
<v Speaker 1>is based on the theory of the firm, and I

0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:54.080
<v Speaker 1>think the firm is like a cow, and corporations are

0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.520
<v Speaker 1>like a bunch of people inside a cal costume trying

0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.160
<v Speaker 1>to behave like a cow. So I have tremendous faith

0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:03.360
<v Speaker 1>in people ultimately and in the capacity of people collectively

0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:06.280
<v Speaker 1>to build the world that we are want to live in.

0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.840
<v Speaker 1>So we end on a hopeful note. Amy, thank you

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.399
<v Speaker 1>so much for joining us. Thanks so much for having me.

0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.640
<v Speaker 1>Benchmark will be back next week. Until then, you can

0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.399
<v Speaker 1>find us in so many places the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.680
<v Speaker 1>dot Com, our Bloomberg app, as well as iTunes, pocket casts,

0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.399
<v Speaker 1>and Stitcher. While you're there, take a minute rate and

0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.679
<v Speaker 1>review the show so more listeners can find us and

0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.480
<v Speaker 1>do let us know what you've thought. You can follow

0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:40.080
<v Speaker 1>me on Twitter at Moss Underscore, Echo, Scott at at

0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Scott Laman, and Amy at the Amy Wit That's Easy.

0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Benchmark is produced by Sarah Pattison. The head of Bloomberg

0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Podcast is Alec McCay. Thanks for listening, See you next time.

0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:02.800
<v Speaker 1>Four