1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: My name is Matt. Our colleague Nol is on an 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: adventure today and will be returning soon. They call me Ben. 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, Mission 8 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: controlled decond. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 9 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: to know. Matt, Matt, We're going to good school with 11 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: this one. Yeah, we're talking about a TV show that 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: I haven't thought about in years. Thunderbirds. Wait, I thought 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: we were talking about the iconic forward car the Thunderbird. 14 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: Oh shoot, you know what, it's not that, it's the Thunderbird, 15 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: Uh fighter jet right? Okay, all right, Well, now that 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: we've figured out what today's show is about, let's continue 17 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: like jokes aside, this is this is a weird one 18 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: for us because every so often we run across something 19 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: that strikes all of us. Uh with this sudden revelation, 20 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: like why have we not ever done an episode on this? 21 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: Why have we talked about it a thunderbird. If you 22 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: are not from the US or you're not familiar with 23 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: cryptozoology is a very, very old myth. It's a part 24 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: of folklore for multiple indigenous communities in Canada, in the 25 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: modern day US, and in South America as well. This 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: is an ancient, ancient story, like it's up there with 27 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: the c tech ha. Remember when we when we kind 28 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: of i would say, solved the mystery of the legend 29 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: of the red haired giants. Yeah, you know, we didn't 30 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: get quite to the bottom of it, but we figured 31 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: out some stuff. Listen to that right now if you 32 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: have a chance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spoiler alert. Um, giant 33 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: depends on the perspective of the perceiver, right, so your 34 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: mileage may vary. I'm just saying that Shaquille O'Neill's idea 35 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: of what a giant is probably very different from like 36 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: a a shorter person's idea of a giant. So this 37 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: also reminds me, Matt of the of the stories of 38 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: sea monsters. When we when we found out that we 39 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: found out that yes, uh, colossal marine creatures probably did 40 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: attack wooden vessels at some point. But the thing that 41 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: they don't tell you when when they're sharing those stories, 42 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: is that those wooden vessels were much smaller than you 43 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: might think looking it woodcuts or lithographs. But here are 44 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: the facts. We got to talk about the legend of 45 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: this thing. And as we as we go into this, 46 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to I wanted to ask you, Matt, what 47 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: is like the biggest bird you have seen in person? Well, 48 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: you know, I've been to many a zoo since I 49 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: have a child. There are some very interesting storks that 50 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: exist at the I believe it's at the Atlanta Zoo. 51 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: They have these very strange I think they're called shoehorn 52 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: maybe storks. Maybe that's wrong. Somebody will have to look 53 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: into it. They have very strange looking large beaks, Like 54 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: the beaks shouldn't be attached to a creature of that 55 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: size because they're not massive birds. Um. But they are 56 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: very very large. I've also seen some EMUs, which are 57 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: flightless birds. Um, So that doesn't really count for today. 58 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: Maybe let's go with the biggest bird I've ever seen 59 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: was in my backyard and it was some kind of 60 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: stork like like water creature that had a very large wingspan. Okay, 61 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: a stork or a crane or a heron or something 62 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, those things are those things. Those birds 63 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: are amazing. I I believe I'm having a hard time. 64 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this. I'm having a hard time 65 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: nailing down the biggest bird I ever saw. And I guess, 66 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: like you did, I would categorize flightless birds slightly differently. 67 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: You know, a shoe bill or an ostrich. I think 68 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: they're in a kind of a class of their own. Uh. 69 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 1: The There are a couple of vultures that are native 70 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: to our home state of Georgia, the turkey vulture, the 71 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: black vulture. And I've seen a turkey vulture before. I've 72 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: seen a group of them, and you gotta be honest, 73 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: if you're not expecting it, it is an uncool thing 74 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: to see. They look like ne'er do wells out like 75 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: they like if birds smoked cigarettes. Turkey vultures look like 76 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,239 Speaker 1: they would hang out in an alley and like pass 77 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: around a cigarette. Yep, yep, and uh oh man, there 78 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: are a lot of There are a lot of things 79 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: about those birds, in particular that humans would probably think 80 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: is gross, like the way they purposely vomit on their feet, 81 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 1: the fact that they can eat almost everything. Uh, Turkey 82 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: vultures usually way about five pounds, which sounds really small 83 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: until you consider that their wingspan is something like six ft, 84 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: which is nuts. Uh. And you can imagine if you're 85 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: not an ornithologist, or you're not an amateur birdwatcher, if 86 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: you have an experience like Matt or I have had 87 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 1: and you unexpected lee see a large bird, your first 88 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 1: thought probably isn't what's the taxonomy there? Your first thought 89 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: is something like, holy smokes, that thing is huge. I 90 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: don't want to hang out with it. You're You're absolutely right, 91 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: And it's for my eye, it's very difficult to tell 92 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: the features of say a bird's head when it is 93 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: if it is just taking flight near you, or even 94 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: like at a significant distance, just seeing the wings, that's 95 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: really what my I focuses on, and then you know, 96 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: attempting to figure out what kind of bird it was. 97 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: Was that an owl? Maybe was that a hawk? I 98 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: I like that. For me, my mind doesn't work that way, because, 99 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: as you said, I'm not an ornithologist. I don't have 100 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: that special knowledge. And for anyone just experiencing that in 101 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: a moment, especially or just wings large wings going overhead 102 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: and maybe very difficult to look up and say, oh, 103 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: that was a you know condor right right, and cons 104 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: as well. Even before we figured out that they were 105 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: uh reproducing a sexually, condors were already amazing creatures, uh 106 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: and kind of scary. You know. If you, if you 107 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: like our colleague, have a fear of birds, then of 108 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: course you don't want to kick it with them. And 109 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: that's understandable. You know, birds are an important part of 110 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: the ecology of the world, but they're not for everybody. 111 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: You know. Uh, A lot of birds aren't particularly cuddly 112 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: nor pro human, and you can't blame them so recently 113 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: that we're very cuddly. Just really looking up videos for this. Yeah, 114 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: there are some adorable owls. Yeah, yeah. You know one 115 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: of my regrets. The last time I was in Japan, 116 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: um I got very close to visiting an owl cafe. 117 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: You know, they have those. They have this whole genre 118 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: of cafes that like serves snacks and tea and coffee, 119 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: but there their main draws that you can hang out 120 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: with a specific type of animal. I think there are 121 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: cat cafes in the US now, but there's an Awla cafe. Uh, 122 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: and I just didn't make it. But it's it's on 123 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: the list next time, next time we go to Japan, 124 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: why don't we do stuff they want you to know 125 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: Japan's work. Do you think we can get that in 126 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: the budget? Yeah, obviously, we'll see, we'll see. But but 127 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: for now, let's dive in. So we know that a 128 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: lot of folklore, especially the ancient legends, are attempts by 129 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: communities of the time to interpret the world around them. 130 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: That's why, that's why so much folklore attempts to explain 131 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: the behavior of animals, right, because we have to remember, 132 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: this is before the era of television in many cases, 133 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: this is before the era of the written word. So 134 00:08:54,559 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: folks were living much more closely to the natural world, 135 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: and it's no surprise then that they would have these 136 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: explanations about things that at times seemed inexplicable. If you 137 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: look at the stories of Indigenous American communities, especially in 138 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: the Pacific Coast area and the Great Lakes, you'll see 139 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: that many have the surprisingly similar legends about enormous predatory birds, 140 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: like birds that will eat you even if you're the 141 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: size of Shaquille O'Neal. Yes, well, and they have many 142 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: of them have special powers like paranormal like powers, and 143 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: in several of the legends, I saw the description that 144 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: their wings are so large and powerful when they flap, 145 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: thunder or lightning was associated. I think thunder right, like 146 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: the hance thunderbirds right. But then also you know that 147 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: if you see one in the sky, perhaps the thing 148 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: that you're seeing is actually emanating from the thing's eyes 149 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: and not from the sky itself. But this bird is 150 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: creating it right right, And that the water falling from 151 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: their bodies may maybe the origin point of rain or floods, 152 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: that they are harbingers of storms or harbingers of other 153 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: natural phenomena, including earthquakes. In the Lore of the Past Macquaddies, 154 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: there's a story of two people who run into an 155 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: actual thunderbird because they are on a quest high into 156 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: the mountains to discover the source of thunder, of thunder 157 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: and lightning, and they find that it is a huge bird, 158 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: and it's not a particularly cool bird. These things were 159 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: treated like Godzilla in the folklore. You know, Godzilla has 160 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: now in the recent films, Godzilla has assumed kind of 161 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: a nature spirits at us. Like Godzilla is a protector, 162 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily a villain. It's just so big and 163 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: so powerful that humans are insignificant, and it's to its existence. 164 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: And that's kind of like what a thunderbird was or 165 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: how it was treated. There are stories about it getting 166 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: into fights full on, like blockbuster movie level conflicts with 167 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: other large animals or nature spirits. There's one where a 168 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: thunderbird fights a huge killer whale and the battle just 169 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: recks the entire area. Trees are flattened, the ground is shaking. 170 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: In retrospect, if you look back on that legend, it 171 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: sounds like it might be a way to explain an earthquake, right, 172 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: thunderbird engaged in moral combat somewhere off the coast. Yes, yeah, 173 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: And I don't know why would you say it like that, man, 174 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: It sounds like I think you would. I think I've 175 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: said this before, but you would be such a great 176 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: news anchor, And I feel like I feel like if 177 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: you were, if you were at like you know, welcome 178 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: back to w M. A. T. T. The news. At 179 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: six a giant bird has been freaking havoc of the 180 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: Pacific coast. Yeah, at six pm, naval horses were alerted. 181 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: Thunderbird battle effort. All right, So I'm gonna laugh at myself. Okay. Also, 182 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, in the defense of these mythological creatures, they 183 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: weren't all bad, right, No, No, Well, with many legends 184 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: like this, there's a perception that just because something has 185 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: a ton of power and it you know, holds a 186 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: special place within the cultural framework, that doesn't mean that 187 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: it's all bad. And it means that perhaps there's a 188 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: benevolent side to this, this creature, this this power of nature, 189 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: and I think there was something ing. There are a 190 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: couple of stories of it where it would actually assist 191 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: tribes in finding food if they were, you know, going 192 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: through a time where they were in lack of food, 193 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: or it would like you know, fly in a specific 194 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: area or in a direction where they could acquire something 195 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it could lead you places if you 196 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: treated it with respect. That was that was always one 197 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: of the key components of the story. They were also 198 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: at times moral compasses, forces of judgment. You will find 199 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: some stories in indigenous communities arguing that the thunderbird is 200 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: responsible for punishing people who break social taboos or moral codes, 201 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: and in the Ojibway specifically, the bird is thought to 202 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: have been created by a cultural hero named not a 203 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: Bullshew who created the bird as a way of moving 204 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: the cycles of the natural world, you know, for winter 205 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: to spring to summer and so on. But there's an 206 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: interesting wrinkle here because we opened at the top saying 207 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: that this was a regional cryptod. That's true, sort of 208 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: kind of the way that people would say Bigfoot is 209 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: mostly Pacific Northwest thing, But the Yeti exists in the Himalayas, right, 210 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: or the skunk ape or swamp ape exists in other 211 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: parts of the world, and we find something similar to 212 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: that here. It should already be pretty fascinating that so 213 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: many indigenous communities on these first two continents have a 214 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: similar story about a giant bird that you just don't 215 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: want to mess with. It can cause earthquakes, it can 216 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: cause storms. There oddly specific in in the mythology and folklore, 217 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: but it's not unique. In fact, we found that multiple communities, 218 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: many of whom never had contact with each other, also 219 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: have myths about something very like a thunderbird. Oh yeah, 220 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: if you have looked at South Africa, you can see 221 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: tales of something called I think that's how you would 222 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: say it, t h E k w A n E. 223 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: It's also known as I Pundulu or guess what, very 224 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: similarly lightning bird. Yeah, and the folklore of the Zulu 225 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: or the Pondo where this occurs. Uh. That folklore is 226 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: independent from the folklore of Native American populations, at least 227 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: as far as we know. Uh. And this thing, this 228 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: is so weird because this is like the thunderbirds evil 229 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: brother you know, like um in lion King Mufasa is 230 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: the good lion, right, and then he's got his brother Scar, 231 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: who's a real pill. So this, this lightning bird is 232 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: different from a thunderbird because it has some of the 233 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: same powers, but it's also vampiric. It thirst for blood, 234 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: and it works with witch doctors and masters of the occult. 235 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: It attacks them. It can also side note, transform into 236 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: a very attractive male human to seduce women. Uh. And 237 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: the rubber hits the road. In the world of folklore, 238 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: sometimes there have been cases where murders are committed because 239 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: somebody suspects that a person is in fact a lightning 240 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: bird in human form. That's actually happened. It's not a joke, 241 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: it's it's a tragic thing. Um. Of course, those explanations 242 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: don't hold up in court, and we still we still 243 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: have I think some more stuff to dive into in 244 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: the role of witchcraft accusations on the African continent specifically, 245 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, in the Mediterranean as well. But but yeah, 246 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: long story short, there is there are tons of stories 247 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: about things. They're very much like thunderbirds across the world, 248 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: even if they're not called specifically thunderbirds in Chilean and 249 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: Argentinean mythology. In Maori mythology, you find similar things. And 250 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: the Maori case is really interesting too because of the 251 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: preponderance of large flightless birds in that part of the world. 252 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, man, but I don't 253 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: trust flightless birds. Ah, I don't know. I don't know 254 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: if it's a matter of trust for me. There's just 255 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: something off about them. I mean, you know, just I 256 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: think it has something to do with just having large wings. Still. 257 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: If you if you look at an emu or something 258 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: like that, or an ostrich and you see it's giant 259 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: wings that it can stretch out the way another bird can, 260 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: but it just hangs out with them like it's almost 261 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: like it's got its hands in its pockets all the time. 262 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: There we go. I don't know, it's just weirds. Me 263 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: out I've been I've been watching We're looking into this. 264 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: I was watching videos of people who have rescued large 265 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: flightless birds and seem to form affectionate bonds with them. 266 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: But it's still crazy. Yeah, there's something uncanny about it. 267 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: It just feels it feels very much like they are 268 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: from a different world or a different time. And we 269 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: didn't even mention their long neckspen It's so weird because 270 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: you can see people petting them and they have like 271 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: their necks will like craning around the shoulders, or they'll 272 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: snuggle up inside of someone. It's I don't know, man, 273 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: It's like a fun doodle with a head, like the 274 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: pool toy, but it wants you to die. Anyhow, We've 275 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: we've set the scene just establishing that these legends exist, 276 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: that multiple groups who were not in contact with each other, 277 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: have discovered or propagate stories that are often beat for beat, 278 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: very similar. So let's pause for word from our sponsor, 279 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: and then we'll see what we can suss out between 280 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: the fact, the fiction and the folklore. We're back, all right. 281 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: So all these people across time and across the world 282 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: have a story about a gigantic avian thing that is 283 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: large enough to prey on human beings, that is associated 284 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: with natural disasters, dangerous weather, And they all have these 285 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: regional variations. But those regional variations are relatively cosmetic. Often 286 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: you know they're not They're not core changes to the 287 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: plot or the description. So the question is, Matt, how 288 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: did so many people come up with this story? Is 289 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: it like some sort of young Gian archetype? Is there 290 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: some great game of telephone that just caused these once 291 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: distinct myths to become increasingly similar upon retelling and as 292 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: the people of the world came into contact with each 293 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: other more and more often. Is it just mothman running 294 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: around across the entire world? Always was to the astronaut meme, right, 295 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: instead of the planet, it's the mothman statue with the 296 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: crazy crazy butt um shout out to your point, pleasant, 297 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: There's another questions most hantilizing question. Could thunderbirds be real? 298 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Yes, well no, well kind 299 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: of yeah. We so rarely get to say this. Yes, 300 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: the more you look into it, the odds are that 301 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: these stories are based in fact, or some version thereof. 302 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: You will find historians speculating that indigenous communities originally based 303 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: these legends on the discovery of terrasaur fossils, like the large, flying, 304 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: reptilian looking things with a scythe like heads. Uh, there 305 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: are folks. There are historians like Tom Holland, not the 306 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: guy who plays Spider Man, he's too busy. Uh, Adrian Mayer, 307 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: who have made a It's like a speculative case. There's conjecture, 308 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: but but it's pretty plausible, you know, Like imagine we're 309 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: living thousands and thousands of years ago and we're out 310 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: walking around, we're hunting something or migrating somewhere, and then boom, 311 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: we literally stumble across the giant bones of a long 312 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: extinct creature. The terrastaur, by the way, was extinct since 313 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: has been extinct since the Late Cretaceous Age, which was 314 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: around sixty six million years ago, So we wouldn't have 315 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: known what this looks like. We just found these enormous bones. 316 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: What do we do? Well? Yeah, And I man, I 317 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: was reading so much on this bend, just about bird 318 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: bones themselves, and and how even you know a terrasaur 319 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: is a dinosaur, right, but is a flying dinosaur and 320 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: it had likely I look, this is just me remembering 321 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: what I read. But you would have slightly different bones 322 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: than let's say, a land walking dinosaur. The density would 323 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: be a little bit different just for it to be 324 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: able to take off and glyde the way that it did. Um, 325 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: those bones because of their structure, they they don't stick 326 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: around as easily and as well as a larger, denser 327 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: bone would and become fossilized in the same manner. Um. 328 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: I just you can keep that in mind. So, like, 329 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: it is a rare thing to come across a terrasaur 330 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: bone or set of bones, and then you'd have to 331 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: be able to, you know, put those bones together in 332 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: a way, or you'd have to have enough of them 333 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: to actually resemble a creature, right to make a picture 334 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: out of what it could be. But like, just just 335 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: think about that, especially if it's thousands of years ago. 336 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: You find a bunch of bones that are kind of 337 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: scattered in one place, but there's one that looks a 338 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: lot like a strange skull that you've never seen before. 339 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: I feel like that's the only way to begin actually 340 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: imagining what a creature could look like or be is 341 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: if you find a skull. Yeah, yeah, because otherwise you 342 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: might just find a very long, humorous or something like 343 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: that and think, well, this is a huge bone. It 344 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: was you know, you probably would have enough knowledge of 345 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: the natural world to not think it was just a 346 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: creature with one bone it was it was just a 347 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: walking meat stick or something like that. But you would 348 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: also even if you had never seen a living example 349 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: of this thing, you would have enough knowledge to think 350 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: if if you found the right pieces, you would have 351 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: enough knowledge to think, this looks like a big bird 352 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: skeleton kind of, And it leads to a lot of speculation, 353 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: you know, like the famous um the famous conjecture about 354 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: the origin of the Cyclops Smith, which is basically the 355 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: idea is that ancient people stumbled across an elephant skull. 356 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: If you've never seen an elephant skull before, and you've 357 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: never seen a living elephant, then the area where the 358 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: trunk is based is a big hole, and it looks 359 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: like that's where an eye would go. It's totally understandable, 360 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: you know. Oh yeah, especially if it was a mastodon 361 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: or something that's even larger in the scale, right, and 362 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: you have that same kind of structure, you could totally 363 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: see that that that things the cyclops for sure, totally. 364 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: I'm looking at elephant skull photographs now, and they're freaky, 365 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: you know, if you if you don't see the rest 366 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: of the skeletal anatomy, if you just see the skull, 367 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: then yeah, it looks uncomfortably close to human, you know 368 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: what I mean, especially the teeth. But yeah, but that's 369 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: it's quite possible that that's what happened. That indigenous community 370 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: stumbled across and, as you said, very rare find of 371 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: something like a terro sort and thought, there are giant 372 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: birds around, we need to watch out. And there's another 373 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: complicating factor, which is this, you've you've just had this 374 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: extraordinary experience, a once in a lifetime thing. Now you 375 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: are hyper sensitive to everything that happened before that discovery, 376 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: During that discovery, and after that discovery, it could be 377 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: plausibly attributed to the creature itself. So maybe maybe we're 378 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: out there, fellow conspiracy realist Millennia go, and we have 379 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: just survived an astonishing and dangerous storm, you know what 380 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: I mean. The sky was lighting up, the land was flooding, 381 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: the earth was shaking, and then in the aftermath we 382 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: find the strange skeleton. Then it's totally reasonable for us 383 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: as rational people to assume that the two events are related, right, 384 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: Like this storm had something to do with this creature. 385 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: So it's a big bird, but it also has weather powers. 386 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: Yeah it's possible. Yeah, just just smashing two instances together. 387 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: Like that's very common in humanity, right, that's just what 388 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: we do. Yeah, it's it's it's a hot it's a 389 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: hot thing. It's like but all the cool people are doing. Uh. 390 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: This still doesn't explain everything, because the thunderbird has depicted 391 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: in mythology is often like clearly avian. It's got feathers, right, 392 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: So how do we explain the specificity here? These stories? 393 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: Those are big reveal. These stories could in fact be 394 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: based on real life encounters with actual kaiju like birds. 395 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: That's nuts. There there was a real thing. There were 396 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: these real, enormous and quite dangerous birds that today are 397 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: known as territorys or terror birds. Terror birds. No, yeah, Ven, 398 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: you you found some very interesting research for this specific 399 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: thing territories, and I, man, I went down a deep 400 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: rabbit hole of looking at these things. There were two 401 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: I think species that were focused on in at least 402 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: some of the some of the writing that was there. 403 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: And man, they're huge, they're these giant birds of prey. 404 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: You know what that means? They eat animals, They eat 405 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: other things animals. Yeah, yeah, uh and they were they 406 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: raged from gigantic essentially, this is how I would describe 407 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: it to, you know, a large bird, but by like 408 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: they got pretty dang big. Uh my gosh. So there's 409 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: one species called the Argentavas magnificence, super humble name, yeah, magnificence. 410 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: Magnificenis ends I don't know how to say scientific word 411 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: magnificence sure sure has something to do with silver because 412 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: of the argent anyway, Yeah, this is on the extreme 413 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: end of the spectrum, right, these these territories in the 414 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: taxonomic sense there they would be described as a family. 415 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: Like you said, they range in size and behavior. But 416 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: our old boy Magnificence is currently believed to have had 417 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: a wingspan of anywhere from sixteen to twenty six feet, 418 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: making it quite possibly the heaviest bird of all time. 419 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: For comparison, the living bird with the largest wingspan right 420 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: now is the wandering albatross, and that wind can. I 421 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: think it's wingspan on average is a little under ten feet, 422 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: but it can be as as wide as twelve feet. Still, 423 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: it's dwarfed by this monstrous sky demon. Yeah, that's crazy 424 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: to imagine that two of my heights equal just the 425 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: albatross's wingspan in some cases. But then you would need 426 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: me plus another ten feet or me plus twenty ft 427 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: my gosh. Yeah, yeah, like that's in this This size, 428 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,479 Speaker 1: this question of size is going to be another another 429 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: important component of of our investigation here. So yeah, you're 430 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: absolutely right, dude, and I am. This is not a 431 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: dean on any of us or anybody listening to the show, 432 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: but this bird, if you ran into it and you 433 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: were unarmed, would absolutely mop you. It would demolish a 434 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: single human in like a p v P fight, and 435 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: it would not be a close call. Unfortunately, we don't 436 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: have the we don't have the armspan to box with 437 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: that thing. You know. The best you can do is 438 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: dang it and then it's over. Yeah. Yeah, hide somewhere, 439 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because it can probably fly 440 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: faster than you can run. So the biggest question here 441 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: is could this thing we know they are real, we 442 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: know territorns did exist, could they have met human beings 443 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: at some point? This is similar to the conjecture about 444 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: Homo Florenzias and austral Epithecus. Right, who uh, Homo Florenzis 445 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: are the so called real life hobbits. We did a 446 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: did an episode or two on them. Uh. They were 447 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: around when humans were around, and it's possible that they interacted. Uh. 448 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: And then austral Epithecus is the largest known primate ever. 449 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: So austro Lepithecus is often brought up as the possible 450 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: origin of abominable snowman or Yeti type stories, but there's 451 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: there's no uh, there's no proof that early humans interacted 452 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: with that creature. Specifically in the case of territories though, 453 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: which is like the worst of the three things we 454 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: just named. In the case of territories, it is, weirdly enough, 455 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: quite possible that early humans ran into these things freaked 456 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,959 Speaker 1: out and totally thought, you know, they were forces of 457 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: nature with supernatural powers. And that was a rational conclusion 458 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: to make at the time, because, as you said, they're 459 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: like twenty feet wide and this this is the closest 460 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: you will come to seeing something like a plane. We 461 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: know that their fossils have been found in various spots 462 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: across both continents, and they they're thought to like way 463 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty pounds a hundred and sixty pounds sometimes. 464 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's insane to think about. My understanding in 465 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: is that they lived around six million years ago? Is that? 466 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: Is that about right? I I just don't know. I 467 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: found that on some BBC article, but I don't know. 468 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true or not. Yeah, it 469 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: depends on the specific type of bird you're talking about, 470 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, because someone extinct earlier than others, some we're 471 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: around later. And right now experts are still trying to 472 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: figure out what comprises a different species of a territory. 473 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: And because like you said, the bones are incredibly fragile, 474 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly when they went extinct. The closest 475 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: people can get is that, um, a few specific types 476 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: are believed to have gone extinct at the end of 477 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: the Plistocene, which is about ten thousand years ago, which 478 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: sounds like a long time, and it is a long time, 479 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: but it's much are recent than six million years And 480 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: yet yeah, we still don't we still don't know, But 481 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: we do know something else about this period of time. 482 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: This is the period of time when anatomically modern humans evolved. 483 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: So this means that it is possible that something very 484 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: much like modern human beings ran into something very much 485 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: like a thunderbird. And we know that this is possible 486 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: because there have been fossils found in Nevada and California, 487 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: and there are mild spoiler alert, there are purported sightings 488 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,239 Speaker 1: of thunderbirds in the modern day. You know what, as 489 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, yeah, yeah, as a matter of fact, 490 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: let's let's cliffhang, Let's let's pause for a word from 491 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: our sponsors, Big Birds r Us, and then we'll be 492 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: back to dive into the modern day of this cryptic 493 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: cryptic miss re Does that work? That works? All right? 494 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: We returned. So today, the vast majority of experts in 495 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: fields like biology or anithology, paleontology, etcetera, all agree that 496 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: these creatures are definitely extinct. They were around at some point, 497 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: but right now, if you are walking in the wild 498 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: of North America, you don't have to worry about a 499 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:41,760 Speaker 1: twenty foot bird attacking It's it's correct, uh, I mean, thankfully. 500 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,720 Speaker 1: And then that applies to these birds. That also applies 501 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: to the dinosaurs we mentioned earlier, right, the pterosaurs um. 502 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: But there are a couple of weird things going on. 503 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: We talked about the bird skeletons and their fragility, which 504 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: is something that we really have to think about. There's 505 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: some interesting stuff going on in the LaBrea tar Pits, Oh, 506 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: where you have found some very like many instances of 507 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: these uh I don't know. I almost want to call 508 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: them like, uh, flying reptiles, but they're you know, they 509 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: are giant birds. Um. But the other thing is that 510 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: the United States is still riddled with stories of more 511 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: modern day encounters, like we're talking very modern day encounters 512 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: with some kind of giant flying bird like a thunderbird. 513 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: And if you go online you can find instances of this. 514 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: I would recommend if you're really into it, check out 515 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: YouTube you can find I don't know. The one that 516 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: I was looking at was called Missing in Alaska. That's 517 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: what it was called. Ben, It's called Missing in Alaska 518 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: Enormous Monster raptor, so you go. Um. There's another one, 519 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: I think from a group called Shiver Paranormal Documentaries. There's 520 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 1: a whole thing about thunderbirds there where in Pennsylvania people 521 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: saw something and then have eyewitness reports of a giant 522 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: flying bird. Right. Yeah, And these are not the only cases. 523 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: It's it's strange because these sightings have occurred sporadically and 524 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: cyclically throughout the history of the US. For instance, you 525 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: may have heard of the newspaper article from the Tombstone 526 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: Epitaph in nine which describes how two local ranchers killed 527 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: an enormous winged monster they called it. And in that article, uh, 528 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: the animal is described as looking like a large alligator, 529 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: And there are some crazy claims about how big it is. 530 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: That its head alone is eight ft long, that it 531 00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: has these thick, almost translucent wings with a wingspan of 532 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty feet. That's kind of nuts. Yeah, 533 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: I was real, real big. Yeah. So then with that, 534 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: I mean, the implication there would be for the true 535 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: believers would be that they have found a relic population 536 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: of pterosaurs. Right. But the problem is that newspapers at 537 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,240 Speaker 1: this time were notorious for embellishing or outright fabricating stories, 538 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, like the idea of an ancient civilization hidden 539 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: in the Grand Canyon. Um. It was just it was 540 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: a way to push the papers. So we can we unfortunately, 541 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: have to discount a lot of the stories from that 542 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: era or just enjoy them as stories as works of 543 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: folklore and fiction. But what about the more recent stories 544 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned Pennsylvania and Alaska because these 545 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: things are, these accounts are much more recent than you 546 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: might assume. There there's one case which is probably the 547 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: most famous one right now, that occurred in nineteen seventy 548 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: seven in lawn Dale, Illinois. Will set the scene for you. 549 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: There are these three kids, they're young, three boys, um 550 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: around like ten years old, out playing in the yard 551 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden in the distance. I 552 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: don't know what they sounded like. It may have been 553 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: like walker walker walker. Uh. Or yes, they were bird sounds, right, 554 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: that's what that's what we're getting out. They were probably sounds. Yeah. 555 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: So so what happens? What happens? So there's three children, 556 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,919 Speaker 1: as you said, been one of them is ten years old. 557 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: His name is Martin Low, and he got straight up 558 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: attacked by two very large birds. One of them, at 559 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: least according to the story, temporarily picked him up, carried 560 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: him quite a distance about thirty feet. Uh. And then 561 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 1: his mom came out. Her name is Ruth. She rando 562 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: her son's rescue. She chased the bird's away and she 563 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: got her son back. And they're like, oh, well that 564 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: was weird. And then they just quacked off into the distance. Yeah. Yeah, 565 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: the average weight of a ten year old there is 566 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: still is not insubstantial, so it would have to be 567 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: big if it could carry carry a juvenile human that far. 568 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: And can you imagine the mother's perspective. Also, this is 569 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: interesting because there are multiple witnesses supposedly right there are 570 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: the two kids who managed to run away. There's the mom, 571 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 1: uh she she and her son, and the witness has 572 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: also had pretty decent specific descriptions of the birds. They 573 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: had white rings around their neck. They're consistently described in 574 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: terms of their plumage, their claws, their talents. Uh. The 575 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 1: boy's mom goes to the police and it's like, watch out, 576 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: we got we're gonna kill a bird situation. And their 577 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: response was ha, silly, I'm And then people kept this 578 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: story of their mind, and it made the press, and 579 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,439 Speaker 1: folks went back and made good faith efforts to figure 580 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: out what was going on, and a lot of the 581 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: experts have agreed that the poor, unfortunate Mr Marlon Lowe 582 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: was attacked not by a thunderbird but by turkey vultures 583 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 1: or possibly and Andy's condor, which is that's exactly the 584 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: image that I had in my head when you said 585 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: the white ring around the next And it's possible maybe 586 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: that those things were out there in Illinois. But but 587 00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: possible isn't the same as confirmed. And this story is 588 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: still heavily disputed. Um, the most of the analysis that 589 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: you'll find out there concludes that it was a known 590 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: type of bird that was just misidentified. And maybe later, 591 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: as the story grew, legs grew wings, people started to embellish, 592 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, you know how during 593 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: an historical event a few decades later, more and more 594 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: people were there, like so many people claimed to be 595 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, in the in the theater when Lincoln was shot, 596 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: stuff like that, you know, many more people than who 597 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: could actually fit in the fourth theater. Uh that. So 598 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: this bird may have grown upon retelling, especially if something 599 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: like that happens when you're just ten years old, you 600 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,399 Speaker 1: remember that, in your fifty or something, then the bird 601 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: might be a size of a building by that point. 602 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no there's no end to how large 603 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: these bird bird glers could have gotten, you know. So, 604 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: but it is weird the thing like and and Andy 605 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: and or an Andy's condor an Indian I think is 606 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: where I have seen it written a couple of times, 607 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: but that's in Peru, so there's it's very unlikely that 608 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: thing was out there in Illinois, as you were talking about, Ben, 609 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 1: And the other one would be you know, if there 610 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,879 Speaker 1: was the other condor, it's in California, the other known 611 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: condor species. Then if it's a turkey vulture, it's probably 612 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,479 Speaker 1: not in that area either, and not quite large enough. 613 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to pick up a ten year old man. Sorry, 614 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep thinking about that one, because what 615 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: one of my fears as a child. I remember having 616 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,320 Speaker 1: that thought of a large bird or an owl or 617 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 1: something like picking you up. And I think it has 618 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 1: to do with some there's some pop culture movie or 619 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 1: reference that I just can't recall right now where a 620 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: child gets picked up by a flying creature and it's 621 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: just horrifying. So right, and if you can remember what 622 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: that is. Yeah, Yeah, this is a little bit about 623 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 1: the Andyan condor why it makes such a good theoretical 624 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: culprit here, Like you said that, the description as it 625 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: stands today of that incident in does seem to match 626 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: an andy and condor. Also, it's the it's considered in 627 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: general the largest bird of prey currently living in the 628 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: world today. It's wingspan is like a little north of 629 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: ten ft uh. It weighs thirty three pounds, which again 630 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: may not sound like much, but that's a lot for 631 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:44,280 Speaker 1: a bird. It is um But like you said, it's 632 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: on it's located nowhere near Illinois. It would have to 633 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: fly a long way. Yeah, but you gotta think, man. 634 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: I know we've talked about condor so much recently on 635 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: the show. If you think about where they live a 636 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 1: lot of times, I mean specifically in Peru. There are 637 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: a couple of places where they live high up within 638 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: a mountain range, right, and they use those They use 639 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: those mountains to their advantage because they are so big 640 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: to be able to fly because of the air kind 641 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: of going up the mountain, they're able to use that 642 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: to coast. Right. They're not these big flapping birds. They're 643 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: the kind that you see just it looks like an 644 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:30,280 Speaker 1: airplane or something flying over. I'm imagining the ancient myths 645 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: and some of the myths that were generated with these 646 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: large birds, and I'm seeing I'm imagining in this mountain 647 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 1: range out in Peru, a thunderstorm coming through or something 648 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,359 Speaker 1: and just seeing uh condors making use of the air 649 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,919 Speaker 1: movement that's occurring because of the storm that's blowing through, 650 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: and just associating that image with that giant bird and 651 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: the power of the storm, and probably the same thing 652 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: on the Pacific coast of the United States with the 653 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,439 Speaker 1: California con doors. Absolutely, I think that's a great point, man, 654 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,280 Speaker 1: And if you know, we would be able to build 655 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: an even better case if there was something in the 656 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: thunderbird legends about throwing up or uh urinating on oneself, 657 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:21,560 Speaker 1: because the Andean condor has the dubious superpower of euro hydrosis, 658 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,720 Speaker 1: which is it's a thing that some birds do where 659 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: they defecate on parts of their legs to use the 660 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 1: fluid as a cooling device, so they'll have their legs 661 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,720 Speaker 1: loft to be streaked with build up of uric acid. 662 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 1: I know it's gross, but I'm saying that if the 663 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 1: thunderbird legend is like, this thing is huge, it eats people, 664 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 1: that causes storms and lightning. Also it peas on itself, 665 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,320 Speaker 1: then we could be like, oh, it's it's probably something 666 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: like a condor that got exaggerated. Turkey vulture is also uh, 667 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,839 Speaker 1: you know, it didn't make it didn't make it into 668 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,839 Speaker 1: the final cut of the folklore, which I wonder, you know, 669 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: you have to wonder, like what who determines what is 670 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: canonical in this folklore? I want to see that as 671 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 1: a sketch or something. Ben, I'm sorry, just like someone 672 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,440 Speaker 1: really seriously describing the legend of the thunderbird and the 673 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:31,759 Speaker 1: very end everywhere, uh and Turkey vultures will vomit aggressively. 674 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,560 Speaker 1: It's like they're howdukan they can detectile vomit like ten 675 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:41,840 Speaker 1: ft or something. It's the lightning things there. You go, Okay, yeah, no, 676 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: I think we'll defer to the judges. But I think 677 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,000 Speaker 1: that that's an acceptable answer there. Man. Um. We do 678 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,800 Speaker 1: probably need to talk a little bit about more recent 679 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: sightings as well. In Alaska in two thousand two, there 680 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,680 Speaker 1: are multiple witnesses who claimed they saw a huge reptilian 681 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 1: look flying creature that was incredibly distinctive, and this story 682 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: made it to the Anchorage Daily News. You can look 683 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: up accounts of it. Um. This story is also very 684 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:18,839 Speaker 1: interesting because in two thousand two, people had more access 685 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: to information. There was more access to audio visual equipment. 686 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: You know, we're still not at the era of smartphones. 687 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: The way they are today. But it is increasingly possible 688 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,160 Speaker 1: that now if something like this is seen, or someone 689 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 1: thinks they saw this kind of cryptod, they should be 690 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,200 Speaker 1: able to whip out their phone and get some kind 691 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 1: of footage of it. That just that hasn't happened yet, 692 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: By the way, all the I don't know about you, Matt, 693 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,439 Speaker 1: but all the footage I saw was pretty grainy stuff. Yeah, 694 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: I saw some newer things, but it was it was 695 00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: often framed as you know, was that an eagle flying 696 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: near a thunderstorm or a thunderbird? Was that a hawk 697 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,399 Speaker 1: or an owl or a thunderbird? Right? And just didn't 698 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: I didn't see anything like HD footage that made me intrigue, right, 699 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: And you know, if that footage did exist, this would 700 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,399 Speaker 1: be a very different episode and very different conversation. Right now, 701 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: this is still in the realm of folklore, speculation, crypto zoology, 702 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 1: and legends. It seems though, that that there are some 703 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: possible explanations to these stories. First speculation based on fossils 704 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: something like that probably occurred. And we also have to 705 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: note that the big problem here, just like many stories 706 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 1: of large cryptids, is it's a problem of size. It 707 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,920 Speaker 1: is incredibly unlikely that a bird that large could exist 708 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: in the US today without being discovered, because it would 709 00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,000 Speaker 1: have to have a wide territorial range. If the popular 710 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,200 Speaker 1: nation was large enough to reproduce, then people would have 711 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 1: seen it because its main mode of transport is flying 712 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 1: through the air, which is a highly visible thing. Um, 713 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,240 Speaker 1: they probably would have hit a plane at some point, 714 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,319 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, uh GPS satellite surveillance. The 715 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: US is one of the most heavily surveilled countries in 716 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,360 Speaker 1: the world, So this is not like the speculation surrounding 717 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 1: cryptids in rural parts of Western Africa. There's something people 718 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,319 Speaker 1: that they're three d and thirty million people here, give 719 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,440 Speaker 1: or take, and a ton of them have cell phones. 720 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,759 Speaker 1: So it feels like somebody at some point would have 721 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,480 Speaker 1: seen something this big just flying in its doofy dangerous 722 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,279 Speaker 1: way through the air and as it goes and pan 723 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:54,400 Speaker 1: on itself as it goes uh circle of life. Well, secondly, 724 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: we know that they're One of the possible explanations is 725 00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:03,400 Speaker 1: early human encounters with rute, old, gigantic avian predators that 726 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,080 Speaker 1: also probably occurred. We will probably never know the full 727 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,160 Speaker 1: extent of those encounters, nor will we know the frequency, 728 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:16,239 Speaker 1: but it is plausible to assume that it happened at 729 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 1: least a few times. And if that happened to you 730 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,400 Speaker 1: and you survived, then that is going to be the 731 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: kind of thing you remember and you tell your kids about, 732 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 1: and then your kids tell their kids about, and maybe 733 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,400 Speaker 1: the bird just gets a little bit larger each time 734 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,879 Speaker 1: with each generation. Um Man, there's another one. I'm trying 735 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: to like. What we're trying to do here, folks, is 736 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: mix in the tantalizing stuff and the mundane but important stuff. 737 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,319 Speaker 1: So one of the downers we have to point out 738 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,680 Speaker 1: that we were pretty open about at the beginning here 739 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 1: is misidentification. Most people are not ornithologists, and depending on 740 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: the angle and distance, you can miscalculate a lot of things. 741 00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 1: Just like if we were to see um a ufo, 742 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:05,479 Speaker 1: we we wouldn't be able to clearly understand how our 743 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: distance and how our perspective may affect what we think 744 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: we're seeing. Like the point you made Matt about in 745 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,120 Speaker 1: the moment focusing on the wingspan or trying to like 746 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,400 Speaker 1: focus on the head. You know, it takes either an 747 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:26,360 Speaker 1: abnormal amount of calm or high amount of experience and 748 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 1: knowledge to look at something that surprises you it's a 749 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,000 Speaker 1: huge bird, and to have the presence of mind to say, 750 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: let's look at the plumage instead, you know, instead of 751 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:42,040 Speaker 1: just losing your mind and running away. Um. Yeah, And 752 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,600 Speaker 1: so misidentification is a big part of this. We don't 753 00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,399 Speaker 1: always get to say this on the show, but in 754 00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,520 Speaker 1: this case, all three of those ideas, fossil based speculation, 755 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,840 Speaker 1: early human encounters, and misidentification, all three of those seem 756 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,840 Speaker 1: plausible people living thousands of years ago. We're not dummies. 757 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,880 Speaker 1: Their cultural frameworks and folklore. They were in our rational, 758 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,719 Speaker 1: coherent ways to understand and at times confusing world. So 759 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to the myth of the thunderbird, it 760 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,760 Speaker 1: is why possible that at least some of those stories 761 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:23,840 Speaker 1: were based on real world events exaggerated, sure, embellished properly, 762 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,640 Speaker 1: but fictional I'm not so sure now, man. Well, I mean, 763 00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,600 Speaker 1: those the territorns, I think that's how we say them. 764 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:37,160 Speaker 1: But the rat Terra tornus or terra torny day, I 765 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,400 Speaker 1: don't know whatever whatever they are. That the huge creatures 766 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,120 Speaker 1: that were like vultures that were you know, between sixteen 767 00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,279 Speaker 1: and twenty six ft or whatever. It was like that 768 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,640 Speaker 1: the concept that those were around up until something like 769 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,919 Speaker 1: ten thou years ago does make me think that that's 770 00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:02,840 Speaker 1: where most of this originated. Um I, at least the legends, 771 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,360 Speaker 1: the myths, the stuff that you'll find in Latin America. 772 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,720 Speaker 1: UM maybe out in in Chile and Peru and places 773 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,680 Speaker 1: like that. That makes sense makes sense in North America 774 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,560 Speaker 1: with indigenous tribes experiencing these things, having that vision that 775 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,880 Speaker 1: whoever shot that video recently with an HD camera and 776 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:26,200 Speaker 1: a hawk I think, you know, flying around a thunderstorm, 777 00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,719 Speaker 1: if you have that interaction, there are no cameras. It's 778 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 1: early evolution of ourselves right now as we know ourselves. 779 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,920 Speaker 1: You see that in the thunders from you see that 780 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,320 Speaker 1: thing flying around, you hear the thunder, you see the lightning, 781 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:45,080 Speaker 1: that things looking ominous. Obviously, that's that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, 782 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: And we didn't mention other myths, you know, like the 783 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,120 Speaker 1: rock ro oc not Rockefell, and but you know the 784 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:56,680 Speaker 1: giant bird myth um. They these stories don't occur in vacuum. 785 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,440 Speaker 1: They have to come from somewhere, and it doesn't always 786 00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:04,280 Speaker 1: mean that there was a real biological creature threatening those populations, 787 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,799 Speaker 1: but it would be I think presumptuous to assume that 788 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: someone just woke up one day and made something up 789 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:17,200 Speaker 1: for funzies. So with that we have to ask for 790 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,400 Speaker 1: your help, folks. Have you had an encounter with a 791 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,000 Speaker 1: mysterious giant bird? Which I never thought we'd say on 792 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 1: this show, but have you had an encounter with a 793 00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 1: bird like this? Do you think it's possible for a 794 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,400 Speaker 1: creature this size to have existed in the modern day, 795 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,879 Speaker 1: And if so, do you think it's possible that those 796 00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:42,479 Speaker 1: would be around now currently? I'm I don't know about you, man, 797 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:48,160 Speaker 1: Like I acknowledge that no one is certain quite when 798 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,960 Speaker 1: these creatures went extinct. They just have kind of a 799 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:57,279 Speaker 1: ballpark guess. But I'm I'm also pretty certain that they're 800 00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: not around now. It just seems like there are too 801 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,279 Speaker 1: many There are too many opportunities for them to have 802 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:06,000 Speaker 1: been observed if they were there. Yeah, again, watch some 803 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,319 Speaker 1: videos when you get a chance online of Andean condors 804 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,200 Speaker 1: and and or California condors. Look at them in flight, 805 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,640 Speaker 1: look where they live, and you will see that if 806 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,160 Speaker 1: there was a bird of this size that existed, I 807 00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,879 Speaker 1: have a feeling maybe I'm completely wrong that they would 808 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,480 Speaker 1: live in a similar area as these condors, because it's 809 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,719 Speaker 1: what they would need to hunt. They're large enough to 810 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,640 Speaker 1: where they need to have some kind of elevation and 811 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,520 Speaker 1: air movement to just glide right, So they would have 812 00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,440 Speaker 1: to be hunting around there, and they'd have to have 813 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,400 Speaker 1: so much food in an area like that that I 814 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 1: don't know. I just imagine that we would have observed 815 00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,920 Speaker 1: them from the air, likely just because humans are up 816 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,480 Speaker 1: in the skies way more than we are, just traveling 817 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:56,040 Speaker 1: around places where perhaps they might live. Yeah, well said, 818 00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,319 Speaker 1: So with that, folks, let us know and if you 819 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,880 Speaker 1: have footage, we would love to see it. 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