1 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder. 2 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:20,090 Speaker 2: That's Georgia Hardstart. 3 00:00:20,110 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: That's Karen Kilgariff. 4 00:00:21,460 --> 00:00:22,930 Speaker 2: And we're here to present to you. 5 00:00:22,790 --> 00:00:25,130 Speaker 1: A podcast with five beverages. 6 00:00:25,470 --> 00:00:26,870 Speaker 2: See how many we can drink? Go. 7 00:00:26,890 --> 00:00:29,730 Speaker 1: Chug. Chug your caffeine. 8 00:00:29,830 --> 00:00:33,290 Speaker 2: I have been kind of chugging coffee all day. Then 9 00:00:33,390 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: I find myself in kind of a pit of despair. And, 10 00:00:37,670 --> 00:00:39,550 Speaker 2: you know, like when you're just kind of like, why? 11 00:00:39,570 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: And it's like, Because you've only had coffee and it's 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:42,820 Speaker 2: 4 p.m. 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,100 Speaker 1: How is it 4 p.m. and I've only had coffee 14 00:00:45,140 --> 00:00:47,580 Speaker 1: and an Uncrustable? Like this doesn't, this isn't. 15 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,419 Speaker 2: Who's keeping track of me? Are you a baby? Why 16 00:00:50,460 --> 00:00:51,630 Speaker 2: won't anyone keep track of me? 17 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,060 Speaker 1: Why can't I nourish myself? 18 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: Why does it slip my mind to do the thing 19 00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:59,420 Speaker 2: I've had to do for 50 plus years in a row? Yeah. 20 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,660 Speaker 2: Slips my mind. Lunch is a— Showering. Showering's hard. Lunch 21 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:04,100 Speaker 2: is harder. 22 00:01:04,140 --> 00:01:06,780 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's just day after day. Like, every 23 00:01:06,819 --> 00:01:08,380 Speaker 1: day at the end of the day when Vince and 24 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: I are like, what are we having for dinner? And 25 00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:11,970 Speaker 1: it's like, we decided yesterday. 26 00:01:11,990 --> 00:01:12,270 Speaker 2: Yeah. 27 00:01:12,430 --> 00:01:13,170 Speaker 1: We did this. 28 00:01:13,330 --> 00:01:16,550 Speaker 2: It's that the rest of the time. Beef stroganoff forever. 29 00:01:16,650 --> 00:01:20,290 Speaker 1: I'm so sick of chewing. Like, it's just every day 30 00:01:20,430 --> 00:01:21,950 Speaker 1: is chewing, you know? 31 00:01:22,250 --> 00:01:23,510 Speaker 2: What else sucks? 32 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: I think this is called depression. 33 00:01:26,180 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 2: Or are we just venting it as in our artistic 34 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: process before we really give people what they need? Because 35 00:01:31,180 --> 00:01:34,569 Speaker 2: I think it's like, it is important to say, here 36 00:01:34,610 --> 00:01:39,649 Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, no one can drive. Three different cars 37 00:01:39,770 --> 00:01:42,649 Speaker 2: tried to kill other cars on my way here. Oh, wow. 38 00:01:42,910 --> 00:01:44,410 Speaker 2: In a way where the third one, I was like, 39 00:01:44,430 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: I got to get off this street. It's just people veering. 40 00:01:49,020 --> 00:01:51,260 Speaker 2: And just over there and honking. 41 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,300 Speaker 1: I got real angry at a woman on my way here. 42 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,570 Speaker 1: And I was like, whoa, that was crazy. And I 43 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:57,550 Speaker 1: pulled over and took a beta blocker because I was like, 44 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:00,230 Speaker 1: that was over the top. Like that wasn't necessary. 45 00:02:00,270 --> 00:02:02,830 Speaker 2: Are we checking your levels on those beta blockers? We 46 00:02:02,910 --> 00:02:04,250 Speaker 2: need to make sure your liver is okay. 47 00:02:04,270 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: Does it fuck up your liver? 48 00:02:05,380 --> 00:02:07,540 Speaker 2: Yes. Those are serious fucking drugs. Really? 49 00:02:07,820 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: Oh, well, I stopped drinking so I can do whatever 50 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,300 Speaker 1: I want to my liver. Now, 74 today, 74 days. 51 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,019 Speaker 2: Your liver's like, please, I beg you. If you would 52 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:15,500 Speaker 2: just listen. 53 00:02:16,030 --> 00:02:19,190 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. No, we're just trying to be relatable. No, 54 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:22,010 Speaker 1: that's right. Coffee, snacks, driving. 55 00:02:22,030 --> 00:02:23,250 Speaker 2: Coffee, drugs, driving. 56 00:02:23,290 --> 00:02:25,790 Speaker 1: But reality is we have private planes that take us 57 00:02:26,370 --> 00:02:28,430 Speaker 1: to our house and to our office. 58 00:02:28,669 --> 00:02:32,450 Speaker 2: Just like a Jenner. That'd be incredible. Where would the 59 00:02:32,570 --> 00:02:36,010 Speaker 2: commute you would most wish you could get private planed 60 00:02:36,169 --> 00:02:37,500 Speaker 2: to in Los Angeles? 61 00:02:37,750 --> 00:02:39,510 Speaker 1: I want to go to the beach and I won't 62 00:02:39,570 --> 00:02:43,580 Speaker 1: ever do it. Or like a coast somewhere along there, 63 00:02:43,620 --> 00:02:46,540 Speaker 1: hiking in Santa Monica Mountains. Like, you just don't do that. 64 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: No. 65 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: It's a fucking schlep, and it's an angry schlep. Yes, 66 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:51,380 Speaker 1: it is. 67 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,180 Speaker 2: And when you get there, the elements are against you. 68 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it doesn't—yeah, don't get me. 69 00:02:56,340 --> 00:02:56,620 Speaker 2: Okay. 70 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,740 Speaker 1: Because it doesn't get— here' s the thing about the West Side. 71 00:03:01,020 --> 00:03:03,139 Speaker 2: Let me quote both of your nephews when I say 72 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:05,340 Speaker 2: the 101 to the 110 to the 405. To the 73 00:03:05,340 --> 00:03:10,250 Speaker 2: 134 to the 405. May I just— All of this 74 00:03:10,310 --> 00:03:13,329 Speaker 2: goes because who cares about Highway Talk? 75 00:03:13,430 --> 00:03:15,489 Speaker 1: Right. It's Highway Talk with Karen and Georgia. 76 00:03:15,510 --> 00:03:16,230 Speaker 2: With Karen and Georgia. 77 00:03:16,450 --> 00:03:18,910 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Was Car Talk the original podcast? 78 00:03:19,590 --> 00:03:22,669 Speaker 2: I think so. Because they had like... They talked to 79 00:03:22,710 --> 00:03:25,310 Speaker 2: the audience. Yeah. It was real back and forth. 80 00:03:25,389 --> 00:03:26,850 Speaker 1: It was like not on video. 81 00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:31,050 Speaker 2: That's right. These people. Wait a second. Yeah. We had 82 00:03:31,090 --> 00:03:34,030 Speaker 2: a lot of great people talking to us about the 83 00:03:34,050 --> 00:03:35,050 Speaker 2: death of Dolly Parton. 84 00:03:35,110 --> 00:03:35,450 Speaker 1: Yeah. 85 00:03:35,630 --> 00:03:37,570 Speaker 2: And what it meant to them. But I just wanted 86 00:03:37,590 --> 00:03:39,830 Speaker 2: to share a couple, because this is actually kind of 87 00:03:39,850 --> 00:03:41,610 Speaker 2: supposed to be a short episode. 88 00:03:41,690 --> 00:03:44,110 Speaker 1: Oh, right. Well, it's a solo. It's a solo episode. 89 00:03:44,130 --> 00:03:45,710 Speaker 1: You're going to go. I went last week. You're going 90 00:03:45,730 --> 00:03:46,210 Speaker 1: to go this week. 91 00:03:46,250 --> 00:03:48,470 Speaker 2: This is mine. Yeah. But we thought it would be 92 00:03:48,510 --> 00:03:52,370 Speaker 2: fun just because there were such good comments. Yeah. many, many, 93 00:03:52,390 --> 00:03:56,750 Speaker 2: many people loved, admired, respected, if not worshipped her. 94 00:03:56,790 --> 00:03:57,450 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 95 00:03:57,790 --> 00:03:59,850 Speaker 2: But we got some good ones. We boiled them down 96 00:03:59,890 --> 00:04:04,150 Speaker 2: to these three. Sugar Camp Shop from Instagram wrote, may 97 00:04:04,190 --> 00:04:07,090 Speaker 2: her memory be a fire lit beneath our asses to 98 00:04:07,130 --> 00:04:08,050 Speaker 2: do good in the world. 99 00:04:08,090 --> 00:04:09,090 Speaker 1: Wow, I love that. 100 00:04:09,170 --> 00:04:12,370 Speaker 2: Which is in this world. I love that too. It's 101 00:04:12,450 --> 00:04:16,300 Speaker 2: very true. Somebody posted something that said, This is a 102 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,850 Speaker 2: person who broke records in the music industry, like enlisted out. 103 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:20,490 Speaker 1: Yes. 104 00:04:20,910 --> 00:04:23,010 Speaker 2: But we're talking about all the good she did for people. 105 00:04:23,050 --> 00:04:24,469 Speaker 1: Totally. So amazing. 106 00:04:24,510 --> 00:04:28,270 Speaker 2: It's really good. Then Mary Becker from Facebook, she wrote 107 00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:30,450 Speaker 2: in and said, there were so many things I didn't know. 108 00:04:30,670 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: She was one of the producers of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. 109 00:04:33,330 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: Really? 110 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:34,420 Speaker 2: Yes. 111 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:35,180 Speaker 1: Amazing. 112 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: Her production company, Sand Dollar, helped out in that, I guess. 113 00:04:40,140 --> 00:04:42,980 Speaker 2: And then the last one, which we really loved, Von Nar, 114 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,820 Speaker 2: G-N-A-R on Instagram, wrote, a whole mini-sode of Dolly encounters 115 00:04:46,860 --> 00:04:48,990 Speaker 2: would be welcomed, please and thank you. 116 00:04:49,180 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: Great idea. 117 00:04:50,430 --> 00:04:50,580 Speaker 2: Right? 118 00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:53,140 Speaker 1: Do you have a Dolly Parton story? Exactly. Send it 119 00:04:53,190 --> 00:04:55,510 Speaker 1: to us at MyFavoriteMurder at Gmail. We'll do a mini-sode. 120 00:04:55,630 --> 00:04:58,650 Speaker 2: Did Dolly's butterfly bus break down in front of your home? 121 00:04:59,130 --> 00:05:00,610 Speaker 2: And she had to come in and eat dinner with 122 00:05:00,630 --> 00:05:01,349 Speaker 2: you and all your cousins. 123 00:05:01,430 --> 00:05:04,010 Speaker 1: Did you get one of her baking boxes and, like, 124 00:05:04,050 --> 00:05:06,250 Speaker 1: you fed your whole family for a week off of it? 125 00:05:06,410 --> 00:05:08,450 Speaker 2: Did you get sent a free book once a month 126 00:05:08,510 --> 00:05:10,789 Speaker 2: for your whole childhood and now because of Dolly Parton 127 00:05:10,830 --> 00:05:11,830 Speaker 2: you can read books? 128 00:05:12,310 --> 00:05:14,550 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. You did that? 129 00:05:14,710 --> 00:05:14,849 Speaker 2: Okay. 130 00:05:15,089 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: And we were just talking about her the other day. 131 00:05:16,620 --> 00:05:18,979 Speaker 1: You just went to Dollywood. I know. It's so crazy. 132 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,539 Speaker 2: It couldn't have lasted forever. It lasted so long. She 133 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: was a star forever. And if you think about her, 134 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: those pictures of her as a little girl, like her 135 00:05:27,660 --> 00:05:29,940 Speaker 2: little face. Yeah. Like, she was meant to be a 136 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: gigantic star from day one. 137 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: Totally. Gorgeous, but such a kind spirit and soul. 138 00:05:35,690 --> 00:05:36,230 Speaker 2: And smarty. 139 00:05:36,529 --> 00:05:37,190 Speaker 1: And so smart. 140 00:05:37,470 --> 00:05:37,970 Speaker 2: So smart. 141 00:05:38,450 --> 00:05:41,150 Speaker 1: Okay, so we have a podcast network. Just like Dolly 142 00:05:41,220 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: Parton had a network. Oh, my God. It's full circle. 143 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,620 Speaker 2: We've finally done the thing that we always wanted. Yeah. 144 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: It's called Exactly Right Media. 145 00:05:49,300 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 2: That's right. 146 00:05:49,620 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: Which is such a great name. I'm so glad you 147 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: came up with that. Like, really, every time I hear it, 148 00:05:53,110 --> 00:05:53,789 Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck yeah. 149 00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: It fits. 150 00:05:54,390 --> 00:05:54,830 Speaker 1: It does fit. 151 00:05:54,850 --> 00:05:55,690 Speaker 2: It's perfect. 152 00:05:55,830 --> 00:05:57,890 Speaker 1: It's great that nothing else was available that we thought 153 00:05:57,950 --> 00:05:58,849 Speaker 1: of before that. 154 00:05:59,150 --> 00:06:00,570 Speaker 2: And I know we've talked about this on the show, 155 00:06:00,650 --> 00:06:03,810 Speaker 2: but we thought of, I would say, 35 different titles 156 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:04,730 Speaker 2: before we landed. 157 00:06:04,810 --> 00:06:07,190 Speaker 1: That were all taken in some way. I think your 158 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: sister was like... You either called your sister and said, 159 00:06:10,220 --> 00:06:11,779 Speaker 1: what about this? And she was like, that's it. 160 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: Yes. 161 00:06:12,460 --> 00:06:13,370 Speaker 1: Or she suggested it. 162 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: I can't remember. 163 00:06:14,860 --> 00:06:15,620 Speaker 1: But she remembers. 164 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:16,820 Speaker 2: Laura's behind all of it. Yeah. 165 00:06:17,550 --> 00:06:20,570 Speaker 1: It's called Exactly Right Media anyways. And here are some highlights. 166 00:06:21,150 --> 00:06:24,310 Speaker 2: If you love the new podcast, Brief Recess, and how 167 00:06:24,350 --> 00:06:26,330 Speaker 2: can you not? You're going to want to be there 168 00:06:26,430 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: for the premiere of The Traitor's New Blood next Thursday, 169 00:06:30,070 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 2: September 17th. So you can watch our own Michael Foote 170 00:06:33,420 --> 00:06:36,500 Speaker 2: begin his journey. to reality TV stardom. 171 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: He's going to be a fucking star, speaking of stars. 172 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: He is just the most delightful person. He's like that 173 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: in real life. He's exactly what you think he's like. 174 00:06:46,540 --> 00:06:49,210 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just like Dolly Parton. I'm just going to 175 00:06:49,250 --> 00:06:50,530 Speaker 1: do that this entire show. 176 00:06:50,550 --> 00:06:51,089 Speaker 2: That's right. 177 00:06:51,550 --> 00:06:53,030 Speaker 1: And if you haven't joined the fan call yet, what 178 00:06:53,070 --> 00:06:55,870 Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Members get every episode of My 179 00:06:55,910 --> 00:06:59,890 Speaker 1: Favorite Murder ad-free, plus merch discounts, exclusive content, and access 180 00:06:59,990 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: to the Murderino Discord. Head to fancult.supercast.com to join, please 181 00:07:05,339 --> 00:07:05,820 Speaker 1: and thank you. 182 00:07:06,100 --> 00:07:08,100 Speaker 2: And in case you missed it, our own Nick Terry 183 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,460 Speaker 2: is back with a new MFM animated. This one features Trixie, 184 00:07:11,930 --> 00:07:14,990 Speaker 2: the pantsless, crispy-faced baby doll that was discovered inside the 185 00:07:15,030 --> 00:07:16,750 Speaker 2: walls of a 100-year-old house. 186 00:07:17,590 --> 00:07:19,030 Speaker 1: So good. So good. 187 00:07:19,210 --> 00:07:21,670 Speaker 2: You can watch Trixie and the rest of the MFM 188 00:07:21,770 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: animated gang over at youtube.com slash exactlyrightmedia. Okay. All right. 189 00:07:29,540 --> 00:07:32,390 Speaker 1: So this is a solo. So excited. Sit back. I'm 190 00:07:32,410 --> 00:07:33,390 Speaker 1: going to get cozy. 191 00:07:33,430 --> 00:07:36,230 Speaker 2: Take some sips of water. So this show comes out 192 00:07:36,290 --> 00:07:40,490 Speaker 2: on September 10th. I saw a TikTok about these heroes 193 00:07:40,550 --> 00:07:41,250 Speaker 2: from September 11th. 194 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 195 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: And I sent it to Maren, and she looked up. 196 00:07:44,660 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 2: She's like, I love this story so much. 197 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:47,260 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 198 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:52,260 Speaker 2: So we are approaching the 25th anniversary of 9-11. Jesus. 199 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,330 Speaker 2: So today I'm going to tell you one of the 200 00:07:54,430 --> 00:07:57,590 Speaker 2: many incredible stories of heroism that took place on one 201 00:07:57,610 --> 00:08:02,810 Speaker 2: of the darkest days in American history. It's Tuesday, September 11, 2001. 202 00:08:02,810 --> 00:08:04,929 Speaker 2: It's a beautiful late summer morning in New York City, 203 00:08:05,210 --> 00:08:08,930 Speaker 2: and 49-year-old architect Frank DiMartini has just arrived at work. 204 00:08:09,510 --> 00:08:12,710 Speaker 2: He's a construction manager for the Port Authority. And that's 205 00:08:12,750 --> 00:08:15,380 Speaker 2: the entity that manages all of the trains and the 206 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,300 Speaker 2: harbors and the buses and the bridges and the bus 207 00:08:18,340 --> 00:08:22,380 Speaker 2: terminals and all the other kind of travel elements that 208 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,610 Speaker 2: take place between New York and New Jersey. And that 209 00:08:25,790 --> 00:08:29,450 Speaker 2: is the entity that developed the World Trade Center. Frank's 210 00:08:29,490 --> 00:08:33,589 Speaker 2: been working for them since just after the 1993 terrorist bombing. 211 00:08:34,190 --> 00:08:36,690 Speaker 2: And that happened in one of the World Trade Center's basements. 212 00:08:36,750 --> 00:08:38,350 Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember that, but it was like, yeah. 213 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:42,260 Speaker 2: So Frank was hired then to assess structural damage. It 214 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: was a temporary gig that it led to a permanent one. 215 00:08:45,540 --> 00:08:48,250 Speaker 2: Frank's wife, Nicole, saying, quote, he fell in love with 216 00:08:48,270 --> 00:08:51,850 Speaker 2: the buildings. For him, they represented an incredible human feat. 217 00:08:52,250 --> 00:08:55,050 Speaker 2: He was awed by their scale and magnitude, by the 218 00:08:55,110 --> 00:08:58,210 Speaker 2: innovative design features, and by the efficiency of the use 219 00:08:58,250 --> 00:09:02,730 Speaker 2: of materials, end quote. Nicole DeMartini is in her early 40s. 220 00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: She's also an architect. And she first met Frank in 221 00:09:05,820 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 2: design school. They had since been married. Now they have 222 00:09:08,900 --> 00:09:11,980 Speaker 2: two children and a home in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. And 223 00:09:12,020 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: Nicole works for the engineering company that built the World 224 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: Trade Center. And her office is in the South Tower 225 00:09:17,940 --> 00:09:21,270 Speaker 2: on the 35th floor. But this morning, she's with Frank 226 00:09:21,309 --> 00:09:24,050 Speaker 2: in the North Tower at his office because their commute 227 00:09:24,150 --> 00:09:27,150 Speaker 2: went quicker than expected. There was light traffic and a 228 00:09:27,210 --> 00:09:29,949 Speaker 2: seamless drop-off at the kids' school. So they got to 229 00:09:29,990 --> 00:09:33,620 Speaker 2: work at 8.15. And they're 45 minutes early. You know, 230 00:09:33,660 --> 00:09:34,459 Speaker 2: they both start work at 9. 231 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:34,540 Speaker 1: So. 232 00:09:35,429 --> 00:09:37,550 Speaker 2: Nicole decides she's going to spend the next half hour 233 00:09:37,610 --> 00:09:40,349 Speaker 2: with her husband. She'll later say, quote, we were in 234 00:09:40,410 --> 00:09:42,570 Speaker 2: his office and had a cup of coffee and discussed 235 00:09:42,590 --> 00:09:46,060 Speaker 2: typical everyday life kind of things. And that's when the 236 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 2: plane struck just above us. So it's 8.46 a.m. 237 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,260 Speaker 1: On September 11th and a Boeing 767 crashes. 238 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: Into the North Tower at floors 93 through 99. This 239 00:09:50,660 --> 00:10:02,340 Speaker 2: is about 50 feet above where Frank and Nicole are 240 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,180 Speaker 2: sitting at the time. This is the story of the 241 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,500 Speaker 2: evacuation of the World Trade Center's North Tower and all 242 00:10:08,540 --> 00:10:11,209 Speaker 2: the acts of courage and selflessness that saved so many 243 00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:14,890 Speaker 2: lives that day. And the main sources used today are 244 00:10:14,910 --> 00:10:18,290 Speaker 2: the book 102 Minutes by Jim Dwyer and Kevin Flynn 245 00:10:18,309 --> 00:10:22,550 Speaker 2: and And the documentary 9-11, Heroes of the 88th Floor. 246 00:10:23,050 --> 00:10:25,090 Speaker 2: And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. 247 00:10:25,990 --> 00:10:29,790 Speaker 2: So it's 846. We're in Frank's office. Frank and Nicole 248 00:10:29,830 --> 00:10:33,250 Speaker 2: hear this huge boom. They feel a jolt. And then 249 00:10:33,290 --> 00:10:36,930 Speaker 2: they see flames and debris just spilling down the side 250 00:10:36,950 --> 00:10:40,069 Speaker 2: of the building outside of Frank's office windows. Mm-hmm. then 251 00:10:40,110 --> 00:10:42,050 Speaker 2: the power cuts out. So they go out into the 252 00:10:42,090 --> 00:10:45,870 Speaker 2: hallway and that's where everybody is congregating from the 88th floor. 253 00:10:46,030 --> 00:10:49,250 Speaker 2: There's about between 30 and 40 people all trying to 254 00:10:49,290 --> 00:10:51,510 Speaker 2: figure out what's going on, talking to each other. Some 255 00:10:51,550 --> 00:10:54,730 Speaker 2: people are saying they think a generator exploded on the 256 00:10:54,750 --> 00:10:58,670 Speaker 2: upper floor or that the North Tower water pump that's 257 00:10:58,730 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: known to malfunction is somehow exploded. Some people say it's 258 00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: a bomb, but no one really knows and no one's 259 00:11:06,020 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: really panicking. 260 00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:07,100 Speaker 1: Yeah. 261 00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:10,460 Speaker 2: This building is designed to absorb serious shock, and this 262 00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: group knows that better than most because after that terrorist 263 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 2: attack in 1993, they learned it was the heavy smoke 264 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,849 Speaker 2: that pulled in the emergency stairwells that presented the most 265 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:26,150 Speaker 2: danger to evacuee safety, more than actual structural damage. And 266 00:11:26,190 --> 00:11:29,610 Speaker 2: in the years since 1993, they started having fire drills 267 00:11:30,010 --> 00:11:33,310 Speaker 2: training employees to gather on their floors— or a couple 268 00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:36,430 Speaker 2: floors down, depending if theirs is directly affected by something 269 00:11:36,450 --> 00:11:39,390 Speaker 2: like fire, and to wait for further instructions over the 270 00:11:39,510 --> 00:11:44,010 Speaker 2: building's emergency intercom system versus just running out and immediately evacuating. 271 00:11:45,220 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 2: So in these hazy, surreal first moments of the September 272 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,420 Speaker 2: 11th terrorist attack, many people just wait for those updates. 273 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: They're just standing around waiting to see. They don't know 274 00:11:55,460 --> 00:11:59,179 Speaker 2: communications have been completely hobbled by this plane's impact on 275 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,469 Speaker 2: the building. And so crucial minutes tick by with no 276 00:12:02,510 --> 00:12:05,290 Speaker 2: word from the building's fire safety directors. They just don't 277 00:12:05,330 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 2: hear anything. 278 00:12:05,860 --> 00:12:07,670 Speaker 1: Also, I think all the kids, it's so crazy that 279 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: someone could be 25 years old and not have experienced 9-11. 280 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:11,660 Speaker 2: Yeah. 281 00:12:12,179 --> 00:12:12,460 Speaker 1: You know? 282 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:12,940 Speaker 2: Yes. 283 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:15,819 Speaker 1: But we didn't text message then. No. If we did, 284 00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: it was like very... Basic stuff. Yes. 285 00:12:19,059 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 2: Alphanumeric. 286 00:12:19,740 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: Yes. It was impossible to test. And you just didn't 287 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: do it. It just didn't. 288 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:24,620 Speaker 2: It took forever. 289 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,380 Speaker 1: And you couldn't get on the internet from your phone. 290 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,660 Speaker 2: There was CNN, obviously, breaking news, but it didn't go 291 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: the way it goes now. Right. It was 25 years ago. 292 00:12:32,420 --> 00:12:33,260 Speaker 1: It's so fucking crazy. 293 00:12:33,470 --> 00:12:37,610 Speaker 2: It's so surreal. Speaking of those people that weren't around 294 00:12:37,630 --> 00:12:40,150 Speaker 2: at this time, we have a picture of what the 295 00:12:40,170 --> 00:12:42,890 Speaker 2: skyline in New York City looked like, especially down there. 296 00:12:42,910 --> 00:12:44,949 Speaker 1: Shit, man. 297 00:12:45,740 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: That was the normal skyline for so long. 298 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 299 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:52,540 Speaker 2: Crazy. So both of the World Trade Towers had 110 floors. 300 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,569 Speaker 2: The 88th floor, which is where Frank and Nicole are, 301 00:12:55,950 --> 00:12:59,210 Speaker 2: is only five floors beneath the impact zone is what 302 00:12:59,230 --> 00:13:02,170 Speaker 2: they end up calling it, which is everything from the 303 00:13:02,590 --> 00:13:05,650 Speaker 2: 93rd floor to the 99th floor. So being that close, 304 00:13:05,929 --> 00:13:10,030 Speaker 2: smoke immediately starts filling the 88th floor. And through the haze, 305 00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:13,650 Speaker 2: the group can hear someone who's yelling for help. And 306 00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: it turns out 49-year-old Port Authority administrative assistant Elaine Duke, 307 00:13:18,740 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 2: just moments before, when the thousands of gallons of jet 308 00:13:22,020 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: fuel ignited in the crash and sent a huge fireball 309 00:13:26,220 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: down the elevator shaft, she was standing like steps away 310 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,910 Speaker 2: from the elevator. And so she was completely engulfed in flames. 311 00:13:32,990 --> 00:13:34,050 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 312 00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:38,290 Speaker 2: And she basically, like, Gets away. People run over. They 313 00:13:38,650 --> 00:13:41,250 Speaker 2: put the flames out with their hands. All of her 314 00:13:41,290 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: clothes have been burned off. 315 00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 316 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:46,939 Speaker 2: She's just like was in a fireball essentially and survived. 317 00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:51,420 Speaker 2: Elaine's colleague, Doreen Smith, later remembers, quote, her hair was 318 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,060 Speaker 2: still smoking and she was walking around as if she 319 00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:57,260 Speaker 2: was a zombie. Her clothes were completely blown off and 320 00:13:57,300 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: her glasses were blown off, end quote. 321 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:00,870 Speaker 1: Holy shit. 322 00:14:01,250 --> 00:14:04,219 Speaker 2: But she is alive. Now, it's been less than five 323 00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 2: minutes into this disaster, but smoke is building in the air, 324 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,819 Speaker 2: and the people on the 88th floor are starting to 325 00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:14,610 Speaker 2: get scared. But before that fear can bubble over into 326 00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:19,050 Speaker 2: panic of any kind, Frank DiMartini steps forward. His co-worker 327 00:14:19,090 --> 00:14:23,750 Speaker 2: Joanne Ciccolello will say, quote, Frank just appeared. I'm not 328 00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:26,650 Speaker 2: even sure where he came from. He seemed to immediately 329 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: assess what needed to be done. He eased everybody's fears, 330 00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:32,930 Speaker 2: end quote. But I feel like Frank is a classic 331 00:14:32,970 --> 00:14:35,490 Speaker 2: civil servant where he's like, he's the guy that has 332 00:14:35,530 --> 00:14:38,570 Speaker 2: to go in like on the city street and go, 333 00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 2: here's the problem. How do we fix it? 334 00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 335 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: And those guys are always those guys. 336 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: Totally. 337 00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 2: Where it's like, don't let people stand around and theorize 338 00:14:46,380 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: what they think might have happened. Let's action. 339 00:14:49,140 --> 00:14:49,220 Speaker 1: Yeah. 340 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: Let's action. 341 00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: Let's action. 342 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,490 Speaker 2: Let's action. Frank Stile. So Frank speaks to the group 343 00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:57,030 Speaker 2: in a calm, even voice as he shepherds Elaine, who's 344 00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:59,930 Speaker 2: just been terribly burned. And they actually give her a 345 00:15:00,010 --> 00:15:02,530 Speaker 2: sweater so that she can, like, have clothes on. It's 346 00:15:02,590 --> 00:15:04,990 Speaker 2: that bad. His wife, Nicole, and the 30 or so 347 00:15:05,050 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: co-workers that are standing around. And he shepherds them into 348 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,979 Speaker 2: the biggest, least smoky office they can find that's on 349 00:15:12,020 --> 00:15:14,900 Speaker 2: the southern side of the building because the plane struck 350 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: the North Face. And when they get in there, Frank 351 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,580 Speaker 2: asks if anyone else is hurt or if anyone else 352 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,470 Speaker 2: needs help. And it turns out his own secretary, 56-year-old 353 00:15:23,510 --> 00:15:27,530 Speaker 2: Judith Reese, she signals she does. She has asthma and 354 00:15:27,610 --> 00:15:31,970 Speaker 2: she's struggling to breathe. So Frank finds some emergency flashlights 355 00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: and he hands them out to the group. He has 356 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,740 Speaker 2: a walkie-talkie on him that he keeps trying to use 357 00:15:37,780 --> 00:15:40,860 Speaker 2: to communicate with, like, the ground. But all the Port 358 00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: Authority reps are trying to communicate at the same time. 359 00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: And basically, everybody needs medical attention. So many people are 360 00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:50,180 Speaker 2: radioing in at the same time that no one can 361 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,900 Speaker 2: get through. Down in the lobby, first responders are flooding 362 00:15:54,090 --> 00:15:57,590 Speaker 2: into the building. Carrying 60 pounds of equipment on their backs, 363 00:15:57,810 --> 00:16:00,630 Speaker 2: they begin to work their way up the smoky stairwells. 364 00:16:01,190 --> 00:16:05,290 Speaker 2: These stairwells are pitch black. There's no emergency lighting. There's 365 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,420 Speaker 2: none of the normal things that would be taking place 366 00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:10,100 Speaker 2: in like a fire in one of the offices or whatever. 367 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,500 Speaker 2: Those things aren't happening. So the firemen are going up 368 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,460 Speaker 2: as people are trying to evacuate down all from the 369 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:15,900 Speaker 2: same stairs. 370 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:16,300 Speaker 1: In the dark. 371 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: In the dark. In the smoke. Meanwhile, fire safety directors 372 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,590 Speaker 2: are attempting to send evacuation orders throughout the building. But, 373 00:16:24,910 --> 00:16:27,090 Speaker 2: of course, they're using those same radios and they can't 374 00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:29,830 Speaker 2: reach anyone. So now Frank sets off with a small 375 00:16:29,870 --> 00:16:32,989 Speaker 2: team of colleagues to investigate what is actually going on. 376 00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: Among these are two men who are often described as 377 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:42,340 Speaker 2: Frank's best friends, engineer Mac Hanna and construction superintendent Pablo Ortiz. 378 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 2: So these guys, they're all around the same age. They're 379 00:16:45,660 --> 00:16:48,020 Speaker 2: all married with small children, and they all know this 380 00:16:48,060 --> 00:16:51,500 Speaker 2: building better than almost anybody. And also there's two other 381 00:16:51,540 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: men whose movements aren't as well documented, but they should 382 00:16:54,660 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: be mentioned, 41-year-old Carlos Da Costa and 34-year-old Pete Negron. 383 00:17:00,010 --> 00:17:02,620 Speaker 2: they also step up into this group of let's go 384 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,940 Speaker 2: out and figure out what's happening. So the 88th floor 385 00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 2: is 40,000 square feet of office space. That's almost an 386 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: acre of office space. 387 00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:14,300 Speaker 1: That's enormous. Wow. 388 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:18,100 Speaker 2: And so these guys basically move through it as quickly 389 00:17:18,140 --> 00:17:20,460 Speaker 2: as they can, making sure no one is trapped or 390 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,660 Speaker 2: stuck somewhere. So they kind of split off some search 391 00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:26,860 Speaker 2: for staffers who may have been separated from Others go 392 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:29,820 Speaker 2: try to figure out what is happening downstairs or what's 393 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: going on in general. And as they go, the men 394 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,860 Speaker 2: see the extensive damage that the building has taken, even 395 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 2: on that floor. The ceiling above their main hallway has 396 00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:43,030 Speaker 2: collapsed completely. The walls around the elevators are gone because 397 00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:45,609 Speaker 2: of that fireball. And a fire is broken out on 398 00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:48,350 Speaker 2: the northeastern side. And as the fire rages on the 399 00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:52,889 Speaker 2: floors above, the smoke from those fires pour down and 400 00:17:52,930 --> 00:17:56,410 Speaker 2: get thicker. This has just been 10 minutes since impact. 401 00:17:56,780 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 2: Of all the 88 floors exit routes, which used to 402 00:17:59,460 --> 00:18:04,380 Speaker 2: include the elevators and three centrally located emergency stairwells, only 403 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,020 Speaker 2: one of those stairwells is now functional. So Frank and 404 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,620 Speaker 2: the others get back to the larger group and tell them, 405 00:18:09,980 --> 00:18:11,660 Speaker 2: we can't wait any longer. We have to go down 406 00:18:11,740 --> 00:18:14,710 Speaker 2: this stairwell. It's the only one we have. So they 407 00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:17,990 Speaker 2: send everybody over there as fast as they can. And 408 00:18:18,670 --> 00:18:23,149 Speaker 2: Joanne Ciccolello says, quote, Everyone had total trust in whatever 409 00:18:23,490 --> 00:18:25,409 Speaker 2: he was telling us to do. We were going to 410 00:18:25,450 --> 00:18:27,770 Speaker 2: do it because we knew he would get us out safely. 411 00:18:27,950 --> 00:18:28,629 Speaker 2: We just knew it. 412 00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:29,750 Speaker 1: He's the guy you want. 413 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:31,430 Speaker 2: He's the guy. Should we take a look? 414 00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:31,650 Speaker 1: Yeah. 415 00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:32,990 Speaker 2: This is Frank Demartini. 416 00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:34,689 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I'll follow him. 417 00:18:35,150 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 2: That guy knows where the flashlights are. Yeah. He knows 418 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: where the correct emergency stairwell is. 419 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:41,899 Speaker 1: Totally. He knows how to use a power tool, but 420 00:18:41,940 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: he's also like. 421 00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 2: He's doing big picture stuff. 422 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:44,820 Speaker 1: Totally. 423 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,740 Speaker 2: And it's the kind of thing where he, the rarest 424 00:18:47,810 --> 00:18:51,659 Speaker 2: experience of, He went in after the 1993 attacks and 425 00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:57,180 Speaker 2: knows things that you couldn't have known. So the group, 426 00:18:57,380 --> 00:18:59,460 Speaker 2: they get over to the stairwell, but they have to 427 00:18:59,580 --> 00:19:03,100 Speaker 2: climb over mangled building materials and debris to get there. 428 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,540 Speaker 2: It's not just like we're going to walk across the office. 429 00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:08,250 Speaker 2: Elaine and Judith, who are the two people with the 430 00:19:08,290 --> 00:19:10,909 Speaker 2: most pressing medical issues, are moved to the front of 431 00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:13,850 Speaker 2: the group. They're being helped out by the colleagues. So 432 00:19:13,890 --> 00:19:16,270 Speaker 2: this is a long way down to the ground floor. 433 00:19:16,290 --> 00:19:17,149 Speaker 1: What's the floor again? 434 00:19:17,150 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 2: 88. 435 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,540 Speaker 1: But I've done this in an emergency drill when I 436 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: worked in an office on the 31st floor. And it 437 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,060 Speaker 1: fucking took forever. It felt like this is never going 438 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: to end. Yes. And then it wasn't even an emergency, 439 00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:32,629 Speaker 1: a real one. Right. So that sounds. 440 00:19:32,730 --> 00:19:35,750 Speaker 2: And I would imagine fully lit. Yeah, fully lit. Clear air. 441 00:19:35,970 --> 00:19:38,390 Speaker 1: I wasn't freaking the fuck out. Right. Yeah. 442 00:19:38,670 --> 00:19:41,850 Speaker 2: So going down from the 88th floor is more than 443 00:19:41,890 --> 00:19:45,449 Speaker 2: a thousand steps. Of course, I said pitch black, no 444 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,500 Speaker 2: emergency lighting. Of course, it's filled with smoke. Frank tells Nicole, 445 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 2: his wife, quote, I'll be right behind you. But instead, 446 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: he disappears back onto the 88th floor to join Pablo, Mac, 447 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,220 Speaker 2: Carlos and Pete, who have all decided they need to 448 00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:03,619 Speaker 2: do another sweep to make sure that no one is 449 00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:06,950 Speaker 2: stuck up there before they leave for good. So now 450 00:20:07,030 --> 00:20:11,209 Speaker 2: it's about 9 a.m. This is 14 minutes after the 451 00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:14,449 Speaker 2: North Tower is hit, and they finish their search. They 452 00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:16,810 Speaker 2: head back to the emergency stairwell to start their own 453 00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:19,189 Speaker 2: descent down and catch up with their group. But as 454 00:20:19,230 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: they step into the darkness, they hear banging one flight up. Oh, fuck. 455 00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:26,460 Speaker 2: It's right on the other side of the heavy door 456 00:20:26,619 --> 00:20:30,420 Speaker 2: that opens from the stairwell onto the 89th floor. They 457 00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:33,740 Speaker 2: try to open it. It's jammed. They go back down 458 00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:35,889 Speaker 2: to the 88th floor. They come back up with a 459 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,420 Speaker 2: bunch of tools, hard hats, flashlights. And they start hammering 460 00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:42,050 Speaker 2: at the sheetrock around the doorframe. On the other side 461 00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:45,129 Speaker 2: of that door, there are employees trapped on the 89th floor, 462 00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:48,450 Speaker 2: and those workers have the radio on. So they're actually 463 00:20:48,510 --> 00:20:50,980 Speaker 2: learning the details of what's going on outside. 464 00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:54,620 Speaker 1: And the door is blocked. The only exit door is blocked. 465 00:20:54,820 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: Right. The only stairwell that will get them out. So 466 00:20:57,859 --> 00:21:00,020 Speaker 2: what they know and what people are starting to learn 467 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 2: at this point is that an airplane struck the North 468 00:21:02,530 --> 00:21:04,950 Speaker 2: Tower and what they believe to be a terrible accident. 469 00:21:05,050 --> 00:21:07,070 Speaker 2: Everybody at first thinks it's a terrible accident. 470 00:21:07,090 --> 00:21:08,510 Speaker 1: This is when my grandma woke me up. 471 00:21:09,530 --> 00:21:09,730 Speaker 2: Yeah. 472 00:21:09,770 --> 00:21:10,629 Speaker 1: Like something happened. 473 00:21:11,130 --> 00:21:14,410 Speaker 2: Yeah. That's when you lived with her? Yeah. 474 00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:15,490 Speaker 1: I was 21. 475 00:21:15,490 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: It's so long ago. I know. And yet it truly 476 00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:21,300 Speaker 2: is like absolutely last week. I know. When you talk 477 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: about it in this way. 478 00:21:22,780 --> 00:21:23,100 Speaker 1: I know. 479 00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 2: It was such a weird experience. It's like the world 480 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,750 Speaker 2: stopped and we all sat there. watching it like roll 481 00:21:28,850 --> 00:21:30,250 Speaker 2: out second by second. 482 00:21:30,270 --> 00:21:32,490 Speaker 1: And it feels like everything since then has been kind 483 00:21:32,530 --> 00:21:34,730 Speaker 1: of bad too. Like we've all gotten in a lot 484 00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:37,190 Speaker 1: of trauma from that day that we just have not 485 00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:39,149 Speaker 1: talked about in the same way COVID I think is 486 00:21:39,170 --> 00:21:40,910 Speaker 1: someday going to be the same thing where it's like, 487 00:21:41,090 --> 00:21:43,860 Speaker 1: how has it been this long? Have we even talked 488 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:45,139 Speaker 1: about it or gotten over it? 489 00:21:45,260 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: Right. 490 00:21:45,580 --> 00:21:45,900 Speaker 1: Not yet. 491 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,380 Speaker 2: The trauma piles, they're piling and piling. 492 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 493 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:53,260 Speaker 2: They think that until 9.03 a.m., 17 minutes into the 494 00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: disaster when the second plane hits the South Tower of 495 00:21:56,540 --> 00:21:59,149 Speaker 2: the World Trade Center. It's now clear that this is 496 00:21:59,170 --> 00:22:03,250 Speaker 2: a deliberate attack. We're back in the stairwell now, outside 497 00:22:03,290 --> 00:22:06,580 Speaker 2: of the 89th floor, and Pablo actually manages to pry 498 00:22:06,619 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: the door open with a crowbar. The men rush onto 499 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,340 Speaker 2: the 89th floor. They split up into smaller groups. Unfortunately, 500 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,940 Speaker 2: this is where we lose any other information about Pete 501 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,020 Speaker 2: or Carlos. But Frank and Pablo stick together from here 502 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:23,500 Speaker 2: on out, and then Mac basically kind of joins them 503 00:22:23,540 --> 00:22:26,180 Speaker 2: and is in and out and, you know, stays in touch, essentially. 504 00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:30,380 Speaker 2: A graphic designer named Thomas Haddad remembers the moment that 505 00:22:30,420 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 2: these men burst into his office. He says, quote, We 506 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,060 Speaker 2: followed them out to a stairwell door. I was the 507 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,070 Speaker 2: last one on 89. The two gentlemen from the Port 508 00:22:40,109 --> 00:22:42,909 Speaker 2: Authority were standing on the landing of the stairs, and 509 00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:45,730 Speaker 2: everyone else from our group had already started down. The 510 00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:48,930 Speaker 2: two of them were contemplating following us, and one turned 511 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:51,330 Speaker 2: to the other and said, No, let's go up. I 512 00:22:51,369 --> 00:22:52,810 Speaker 2: think there's more people upstairs. 513 00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:54,010 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 514 00:22:54,570 --> 00:22:58,210 Speaker 2: And those two men are Frank DiMartini and Pablo Ortiz. Later, 515 00:22:58,330 --> 00:23:01,470 Speaker 2: Pablo's ex-wife Maureen will explain in an interview that Pablo 516 00:23:01,580 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 2: is a former Navy SEAL. And she says, quote, I 517 00:23:05,420 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: believe that the Vietnam War was the thing that really 518 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,060 Speaker 2: changed his life. You could just see how hurt he 519 00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 2: was that he lost so many people. He couldn't help them. 520 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,010 Speaker 2: There was no way in which he was going to 521 00:23:15,050 --> 00:23:18,149 Speaker 2: let anyone around him get hurt this time. Wow. 522 00:23:18,450 --> 00:23:18,650 Speaker 1: Yeah. 523 00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:23,730 Speaker 2: End quote. So then Nicole Demartini, meanwhile, describes her husband, Frank, as, quote, 524 00:23:24,090 --> 00:23:26,970 Speaker 2: not an ordinary person. For him to make that choice 525 00:23:27,050 --> 00:23:29,330 Speaker 2: to go up rather than go down was just really 526 00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:31,530 Speaker 2: part of his personality. It was in him. 527 00:23:31,790 --> 00:23:33,669 Speaker 1: He just had to do it. Like, you want to 528 00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: think you'd be a hero or like a good person 529 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: in that moment. Not that it's not a good person 530 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: to run, but I think most of us would run Absolutely. 531 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 2: That's survival instinct. 532 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,379 Speaker 1: Yeah. To go in and to try to help people 533 00:23:45,460 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: is just. 534 00:23:46,380 --> 00:23:46,820 Speaker 2: It's big. 535 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,060 Speaker 1: You don't see it because you're not in that situation 536 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: very often. 537 00:23:49,660 --> 00:23:50,220 Speaker 2: Right. 538 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:51,980 Speaker 1: And then when it happens. Right. 539 00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 2: Well, and that's the thing of I don't want to 540 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: give my dad any more credit than he deserves. 541 00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 542 00:23:57,540 --> 00:23:59,780 Speaker 2: But that's the whole job is like they joke around 543 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,500 Speaker 2: and have fun and make dinners and bullshit. Right. And 544 00:24:02,540 --> 00:24:05,179 Speaker 2: then they run into burning buildings to save people to 545 00:24:05,220 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 2: get them out. 546 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:06,780 Speaker 1: Totally. 547 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,300 Speaker 2: It's wild. And then, of course, we all know what 548 00:24:09,340 --> 00:24:11,810 Speaker 2: the FDNY did on this day and the sacrifices that 549 00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:14,130 Speaker 2: they made and how they just, it was like not 550 00:24:14,190 --> 00:24:17,030 Speaker 2: even a second thought. Right. That's what they're going to do. 551 00:24:17,170 --> 00:24:17,350 Speaker 1: Yeah. 552 00:24:17,650 --> 00:24:21,290 Speaker 2: So by 9.14 a.m., this is 30 minutes after the impact, 553 00:24:21,410 --> 00:24:23,770 Speaker 2: Frank and Pablo have made it up to the 90th floor. 554 00:24:24,450 --> 00:24:27,489 Speaker 2: where they free another group of trapped workers. So they 555 00:24:27,530 --> 00:24:29,890 Speaker 2: are making it up, and actually there's people that need 556 00:24:29,910 --> 00:24:33,140 Speaker 2: their help. It's wild. When they climb up the stairwell 557 00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: to the 91st floor, that's just two floors under the 558 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: impact zone. They find there's no way to get inside. 559 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,180 Speaker 2: Now we know that no one above the 91st floor 560 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: will make it out of that tower that day. In 561 00:24:45,140 --> 00:24:49,490 Speaker 2: the book 102 Minutes, authors Kevin Flynn and Jim Dwyer write, quote, 562 00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:53,389 Speaker 2: Above the 91st floor, the stairways were plugged solid to 563 00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 2: collapse drywall forming an impermeable membrane, a borderline that could 564 00:24:57,859 --> 00:25:00,379 Speaker 2: not be crossed, even for people on the 92nd and 565 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 2: 93rd floors, most of which had not been touched by 566 00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 2: the plane impact. 567 00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:06,340 Speaker 1: Fuck. Oh, my God. 568 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 569 00:25:07,790 --> 00:25:09,870 Speaker 1: I need another one of those beta blockers. 570 00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:10,730 Speaker 2: What's that? 571 00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:13,030 Speaker 1: I need another one of those beta blockers. I'm sweating. 572 00:25:13,270 --> 00:25:15,150 Speaker 2: We've got to process it, though. You can't beta block 573 00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:18,190 Speaker 2: your way through the worst thing that ever happened. Truly. Truly. 574 00:25:18,970 --> 00:25:22,220 Speaker 2: And also there's people, we know people who like lived 575 00:25:22,260 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: through it right up close. I mean, like people live 576 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,260 Speaker 2: through these things. So Frank and Pablo are forced to 577 00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 2: concede that they can't evacuate anyone further up. So they 578 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,550 Speaker 2: start looking for those in need on their way back down. Below, 579 00:25:35,850 --> 00:25:37,929 Speaker 2: their friends and colleagues are still trying to get down 580 00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:40,310 Speaker 2: the stairs and out of the building. But as they're 581 00:25:40,330 --> 00:25:43,629 Speaker 2: pushing forward, more people are filtering into the stairwell from 582 00:25:43,650 --> 00:25:47,990 Speaker 2: the other floors. and firefighters are continually rushing up the 583 00:25:48,030 --> 00:25:51,260 Speaker 2: stairs past them. So there's bottlenecks. And of course, there's 584 00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 2: terrible surprises around every turn. Some floors, there's so much 585 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 2: heavy damage, they have to actually get out of the 586 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:02,070 Speaker 2: stairwell and cross through office space to go to other stairwells, 587 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,189 Speaker 2: hoping they will be open. So it's like this one 588 00:26:05,210 --> 00:26:07,270 Speaker 2: was blocked to here, but now maybe we can go 589 00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:11,020 Speaker 2: down here. And as they do that, They're crossing office 590 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: areas that are— some of them are flooded. Some of them 591 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:17,419 Speaker 2: are burning. Some have exposed wire popping around. I mean, 592 00:26:17,460 --> 00:26:21,090 Speaker 2: it's like a bad— it' s a worst-case scenario. So Mack is 593 00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:24,490 Speaker 2: among this crowd of evacuees because he split off from 594 00:26:24,530 --> 00:26:27,230 Speaker 2: his friends on the 88th floor because he helped a 595 00:26:27,290 --> 00:26:31,930 Speaker 2: man named Mo Lipson, who is 89 years old. So 596 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 2: he's basically shepherding Mo and making sure that he's got 597 00:26:35,460 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 2: the help he needs. So now it's 930. Yeah. It's 598 00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 2: about 45 minutes after the impact. Mac is still making 599 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,540 Speaker 2: his way downstairs. And so is Judith Reese, Frank's secretary. 600 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:48,060 Speaker 2: But because of her asthma and her breathing, she's having 601 00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:52,100 Speaker 2: a terrible time. Her colleague, Anita Sarpe, says, quote, it 602 00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 2: was very difficult for her to breathe because of the smoke. 603 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,179 Speaker 2: It was very difficult for her to walk. She was 604 00:26:57,220 --> 00:26:59,780 Speaker 2: very scared. Her face, you could just see she was 605 00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:02,300 Speaker 2: in pain from the breathing and trying to walk and 606 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,979 Speaker 2: knowing that she was delaying us from getting downstairs. So 607 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,889 Speaker 2: the pressure of like holding people up Absolutely. Horrible. But 608 00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:14,109 Speaker 2: some people from the 88th floor have actually finally made 609 00:27:14,150 --> 00:27:17,629 Speaker 2: it down to the ground level already, including Elaine Duke, 610 00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:21,109 Speaker 2: the woman who was critically burned. She's immediately rushed to 611 00:27:21,130 --> 00:27:25,090 Speaker 2: the hospital. And there they believe her prognosis to be 612 00:27:25,170 --> 00:27:28,689 Speaker 2: so bad that she's actually given last rites by a priest. 613 00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:33,510 Speaker 2: But somehow, miraculously, she recovers. She spends four months in 614 00:27:33,530 --> 00:27:37,990 Speaker 2: the hospital and then she's released. So she actually makes 615 00:27:38,050 --> 00:27:38,410 Speaker 2: it through. 616 00:27:38,430 --> 00:27:39,190 Speaker 1: That's amazing. 617 00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 2: And Frank's wife, Nicole, also makes it outside. But Frank 618 00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:45,780 Speaker 2: isn't right behind her like he said he would be. 619 00:27:46,540 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 2: And she will later say, quote, Frank was certainly not 620 00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 2: going to come down with me. He wanted to make 621 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,260 Speaker 2: sure everybody else was coming down first. I knew he'd 622 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 2: be the last person to come down. It was difficult. 623 00:27:57,340 --> 00:27:58,660 Speaker 1: God, I bet. Yeah. 624 00:27:58,859 --> 00:28:01,429 Speaker 2: And this killed me when I read this line. So 625 00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:04,430 Speaker 2: Nicole just starts walking toward the Brooklyn Bridge away from 626 00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:07,369 Speaker 2: the disaster area, which was the footage that we saw 627 00:28:07,450 --> 00:28:12,230 Speaker 2: like in California of just streams of people on foot 628 00:28:12,350 --> 00:28:13,850 Speaker 2: crossing the Brooklyn Bridge to get away. 629 00:28:13,869 --> 00:28:17,050 Speaker 1: No other option just like to walk towards home-ish. 630 00:28:17,609 --> 00:28:20,300 Speaker 2: Right. Or just to walk where other people are. 631 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,129 Speaker 1: Right, away. 632 00:28:21,580 --> 00:28:25,420 Speaker 2: Just try to get somewhere over there essentially. Moments later 633 00:28:25,619 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: at 9.59, the South Tower collapses. Mm-hmm. Oh, God. Nicole says, quote, 634 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,660 Speaker 2: I could not look back. I could not look back. 635 00:28:35,220 --> 00:28:37,169 Speaker 2: I heard people around me going, oh, my God, oh, 636 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,420 Speaker 2: my God, look what happened. People turning around, people looking, 637 00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:43,220 Speaker 2: and I just could not look. I kept walking. 638 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, she knows. 639 00:28:46,260 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: I mean, wow. 640 00:28:47,260 --> 00:28:47,860 Speaker 1: Yeah, horrifying. 641 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:53,010 Speaker 2: Yeah. For the evacuees still making their way down the 642 00:28:53,050 --> 00:28:56,190 Speaker 2: North Tower, everything goes from bad to worse now. Hot, 643 00:28:56,310 --> 00:29:00,380 Speaker 2: debris-filled smoke is rising up in the stairwell. making things 644 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,980 Speaker 2: even darker, and it's deafeningly loud. Thomas Haddad, who is 645 00:29:06,020 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 2: the graphic designer from the 89th floor, he will say, quote, 646 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,470 Speaker 2: if you could imagine a sound that's so loud that 647 00:29:12,530 --> 00:29:15,970 Speaker 2: it's quiet, that's what it was. There was so much 648 00:29:16,050 --> 00:29:18,050 Speaker 2: sound that you couldn't hear a thing. 649 00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:20,310 Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah. I didn't think about that. 650 00:29:20,330 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 2: Because you're in this reverberating stairwell, and then there's an explosion. 651 00:29:25,060 --> 00:29:25,140 Speaker 1: Yeah. 652 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,580 Speaker 2: Remaining evacuees are frozen in place for several minutes before 653 00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:33,390 Speaker 2: they're able to continue down. And Frank's secretary, Judith Reese, 654 00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:36,310 Speaker 2: is among them. She's already having to stop and rest, 655 00:29:36,430 --> 00:29:39,969 Speaker 2: but her Port Authority colleague, Jeffrey Gertler, refuses to leave. 656 00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:43,110 Speaker 2: leave her even as the stairwells thin out more and 657 00:29:43,150 --> 00:29:46,450 Speaker 2: more people are able to evacuate he's not going down 658 00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:49,070 Speaker 2: when they get to the 12th floor judith starts to 659 00:29:49,130 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: panic right as a group of firefighters appears jeffrey remembers 660 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: quote they said we're gonna carry her down i said 661 00:29:57,060 --> 00:29:59,830 Speaker 2: judith we're gonna walk with you don't worry When we 662 00:29:59,870 --> 00:30:02,270 Speaker 2: get down to street level, I'll be with you. And 663 00:30:02,290 --> 00:30:04,410 Speaker 2: the fireman who was in charge steps up close to 664 00:30:04,450 --> 00:30:07,530 Speaker 2: me and says, you don't understand. The building is going 665 00:30:07,570 --> 00:30:09,729 Speaker 2: to collapse, and if you don't start down those stairs, 666 00:30:09,950 --> 00:30:11,730 Speaker 2: I'm going to throw you down those stairs. 667 00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:12,820 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 668 00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:14,660 Speaker 2: They knew they were going into a building that was 669 00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:19,140 Speaker 2: going down. Minutes later, Jeffrey makes it out of the building. 670 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,940 Speaker 2: He turns and waits to see Judith coming out behind him. Meanwhile, Mac, 671 00:30:23,980 --> 00:30:27,830 Speaker 2: who's helping 89-year-old Mo get down the stairs, is also 672 00:30:27,890 --> 00:30:31,980 Speaker 2: still fighting his way outside. At 10.22 a.m., Moe and 673 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,220 Speaker 2: Mack finally reach the ground level. Mack says, quote, I 674 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,860 Speaker 2: was carrying Moe out at the time because the lobby 675 00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:42,790 Speaker 2: itself was completely damaged. All the chandeliers, all the stores 676 00:30:42,850 --> 00:30:46,090 Speaker 2: in the lobby were completely damaged, and water was almost 677 00:30:46,250 --> 00:30:48,510 Speaker 2: one foot deep. As soon as I came out of 678 00:30:48,530 --> 00:30:50,370 Speaker 2: the building, I was shouting at the police on the 679 00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:52,990 Speaker 2: other side of the West Side Highway, telling them, I 680 00:30:53,050 --> 00:30:55,890 Speaker 2: am exhausted, I am tired, I am carrying a man. 681 00:30:56,610 --> 00:30:56,900 Speaker 1: It is 10.28 a.m. 682 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,860 Speaker 2: Then, without fully understanding what's happening around him, Mac feels 683 00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: his feet hit the pavement, and suddenly he's running as 684 00:31:05,820 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 2: fast as he can to escape a tidal wave of 685 00:31:08,660 --> 00:31:13,110 Speaker 2: debris billowing behind him. The North Tower has now collapsed. 686 00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:16,910 Speaker 2: Some sources say that Mac and Mo were the last 687 00:31:17,010 --> 00:31:19,210 Speaker 2: two people to get out of the. 688 00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:21,290 Speaker 1: North Tower alive. No way. 689 00:31:21,930 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: But, of course, we can't know that for sure. That's 690 00:31:24,420 --> 00:31:24,900 Speaker 2: like theory. 691 00:31:25,540 --> 00:31:27,910 Speaker 1: Well, because it's so scary that like once you get 692 00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:30,910 Speaker 1: out of the tower, there's still threat of debris falling 693 00:31:30,970 --> 00:31:33,990 Speaker 1: on top of you and then the building collapsing like God. 694 00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: It's so monumental and also just nothing anyone like it's 695 00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 2: so interesting. his memory of that where it's like suddenly 696 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,220 Speaker 2: I was running. He's not making decisions. This is his 697 00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:47,980 Speaker 2: survival instinct entirely. 698 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: Right. Because this isn't something that anyone's experienced to this level. 699 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,220 Speaker 2: Right. So they know that basically about 3,000 people were 700 00:31:56,260 --> 00:31:59,820 Speaker 2: killed in the terror attacks of September 11th. And among 701 00:31:59,860 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 2: them are Judith Reese, Carlos da Costa, Pete Negron, Pablo Ortiz, 702 00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:08,460 Speaker 2: and Frank DiMartini, who are all believed to have died 703 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,150 Speaker 2: when the North Tower collapsed. Mm-hmm. We know nothing of 704 00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:14,570 Speaker 2: their final moments except that Pablo and Frank were last 705 00:32:14,590 --> 00:32:18,150 Speaker 2: seen on the 78th floor attempting to rescue more people. 706 00:32:18,170 --> 00:32:19,710 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 707 00:32:20,030 --> 00:32:23,100 Speaker 2: So of those five courageous men from the 88th floor, 708 00:32:23,540 --> 00:32:27,239 Speaker 2: only Mac Hanna survives. And obviously and of course his 709 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 2: life is profoundly changed. Yeah. But in kind of an 710 00:32:30,380 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: interesting way, he actually enters the priesthood in 2005. 711 00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:34,780 Speaker 1: No way. 712 00:32:35,090 --> 00:32:38,130 Speaker 2: And now his father, Mark Hanna, he devotes his life 713 00:32:38,370 --> 00:32:39,410 Speaker 2: to helping others. 714 00:32:39,510 --> 00:32:42,190 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. So here's him. The, like, idea that 715 00:32:42,410 --> 00:32:44,870 Speaker 1: such a catastrophe could happen and, like, still believe. 716 00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:45,390 Speaker 2: Yeah. 717 00:32:45,850 --> 00:32:47,260 Speaker 1: And I know it's fucked up to say, but. 718 00:32:47,490 --> 00:32:50,250 Speaker 2: No, well, from his perspective, it's like he got out. 719 00:32:50,260 --> 00:32:51,340 Speaker 1: He survived. Yeah. 720 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. And he helped people and he saved people. And 721 00:32:53,660 --> 00:32:55,060 Speaker 2: it's like, that's what I should be doing. 722 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: There's a reason. Yeah. 723 00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 724 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: Wow. 725 00:32:57,290 --> 00:33:01,110 Speaker 2: In a 2021 interview, Father Mark Hanna mentions he still 726 00:33:01,150 --> 00:33:04,110 Speaker 2: hasn't been able to visit the World Trade Center Memorial 727 00:33:04,330 --> 00:33:06,890 Speaker 2: or anything at Ground Zero. But he does say, quote, 728 00:33:07,570 --> 00:33:09,850 Speaker 2: I pray to do it before I pass away to 729 00:33:09,950 --> 00:33:10,770 Speaker 2: honor my friends. 730 00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:11,790 Speaker 1: Wow. 731 00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:17,340 Speaker 2: And Mo, the old man that Mac evacuated, he survived 732 00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 2: getting out. He ended up passing away in 2008 at 733 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 2: the age of 96. 734 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: Wow. 735 00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:26,070 Speaker 2: So it's believed that that group of men from the 736 00:33:26,220 --> 00:33:30,490 Speaker 2: 88th floor saved at least 50 people and maybe as 737 00:33:30,570 --> 00:33:33,990 Speaker 2: many as 77 people from the upper floors of the 738 00:33:34,050 --> 00:33:37,630 Speaker 2: North Tower on 9-11. It's also said that their selflessness 739 00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:41,710 Speaker 2: and courage had an immediate downstream effect on the people 740 00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:45,290 Speaker 2: that they were evacuating. It set this tone of courage 741 00:33:45,330 --> 00:33:49,110 Speaker 2: and kindness aside. for everybody making that terrifying descent to 742 00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:52,350 Speaker 2: the ground level. They offered each other help. They cared 743 00:33:52,450 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 2: for or sat with the injured. People were singing songs 744 00:33:56,190 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 2: to keep everyone's spirits up. When they could hear people 745 00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:02,660 Speaker 2: trapped behind doors, they did everything they could to get 746 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: them out. Like, those guys really led by example. And 747 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 2: it's all, of course, left the men's loved ones with 748 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,109 Speaker 2: very complicated feelings. Nicole says, quote, Oh, God. 749 00:34:12,130 --> 00:34:12,210 Speaker 1: Yeah. 750 00:34:36,390 --> 00:34:38,290 Speaker 2: That's the thing about guys like that. 751 00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:41,670 Speaker 1: Yeah. Like I'm picturing Vince and I'm like, don't do it. 752 00:34:41,730 --> 00:34:44,130 Speaker 1: Don't be a hero. Come with me. I need you, 753 00:34:44,210 --> 00:34:44,950 Speaker 1: you know. I know. 754 00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:49,410 Speaker 2: But guys like that, they're too attuned to the good 755 00:34:49,489 --> 00:34:50,030 Speaker 2: of the. 756 00:34:49,890 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: Group and the world. Which is what it is to 757 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: be human. Yeah. 758 00:34:54,520 --> 00:35:00,259 Speaker 2: And it also is kind of like those instincts are developable. Yeah. 759 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,030 Speaker 2: And I wouldn't know, but it probably feels great to 760 00:35:04,070 --> 00:35:07,410 Speaker 2: have to develop them. Sure. Because then you're kind of like, well, 761 00:35:07,610 --> 00:35:09,690 Speaker 2: I'll take care of it or maybe I can take 762 00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:09,989 Speaker 2: care of it. 763 00:35:09,989 --> 00:35:12,110 Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure you have that on some level growing 764 00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:15,110 Speaker 1: up watching your dad do exactly that as a fireman. 765 00:35:15,350 --> 00:35:18,500 Speaker 2: True. But I mean, I'm scared of fire. That's why 766 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 2: I lit that bed on fire. 767 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: But in general, like, you know, I think I thought 768 00:35:24,739 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 1: you're great in an emergency. 769 00:35:25,820 --> 00:35:28,610 Speaker 2: I think I might be. Yeah. And I think that's 770 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,270 Speaker 2: also the growing up in the 70s where it always 771 00:35:31,310 --> 00:35:33,470 Speaker 2: was an emergency. So it's like, oh, this. 772 00:35:33,530 --> 00:35:35,180 Speaker 1: And like, take care of your fucking self. 773 00:35:35,420 --> 00:35:37,770 Speaker 2: Got it. You know what this made me think of 774 00:35:37,830 --> 00:35:42,290 Speaker 2: also is They're talking about her. She's saying, I sort 775 00:35:42,330 --> 00:35:44,569 Speaker 2: of knew he didn't make it out. But remember, like, 776 00:35:44,890 --> 00:35:47,750 Speaker 2: they didn't know if people made it out or not. 777 00:35:47,770 --> 00:35:48,390 Speaker 1: Yeah. 778 00:35:48,410 --> 00:35:50,790 Speaker 2: Remember, there was all those bulletin boards and all that 779 00:35:50,850 --> 00:35:51,310 Speaker 2: stuff downtown. 780 00:35:51,330 --> 00:35:53,850 Speaker 1: All these missing persons posters that people were putting up 781 00:35:53,890 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: of their loved ones as like, and then looking through 782 00:35:56,180 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: hospitals to try to identify someone who's unconscious, maybe didn't 783 00:36:00,180 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: have their ID on them. 784 00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 785 00:36:01,580 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: That was so heartbreaking. 786 00:36:02,660 --> 00:36:04,899 Speaker 2: Just waiting to see. So for all the people that 787 00:36:04,980 --> 00:36:08,210 Speaker 2: had this terrible loss. They also had to go through 788 00:36:08,770 --> 00:36:12,609 Speaker 2: weeks or maybe months of just not knowing. And there's 789 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,450 Speaker 2: some people who never knew because nobody can account for 790 00:36:15,489 --> 00:36:19,980 Speaker 2: the missing. It's a lot to think about. So Maureen, 791 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,900 Speaker 2: who was Pablo's ex-wife, has said something similar about losing 792 00:36:23,940 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 2: Pablo that, quote, we were in denial. We didn't believe 793 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,900 Speaker 2: that he was dead. I felt proud of him, certainly 794 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,100 Speaker 2: very proud of him, that he did what he felt 795 00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:35,890 Speaker 2: he had to do. and miserable and angry at the 796 00:36:35,930 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 2: same time. Yeah. One of the men that Pablo Ortiz 797 00:36:40,260 --> 00:36:44,940 Speaker 2: saved is Thomas Haddad from the 89th floor. And he said, quote, 798 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 2: I can see their faces as if it was yesterday 799 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,609 Speaker 2: in my mind. They are my heroes. They're the reason 800 00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:52,890 Speaker 2: I can continue to have a life of any kind. 801 00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:54,370 Speaker 1: Wow. 802 00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:59,700 Speaker 2: But Pablo Ortiz's ex-wife, Maureen, also talks about how connected 803 00:36:59,739 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 2: she feels to the 50-plus, maybe even in the 70s, 804 00:37:04,890 --> 00:37:08,010 Speaker 2: amount of human lives that her husband saved. She adds, quote, 805 00:37:08,190 --> 00:37:11,589 Speaker 2: they actually had the last moments of his life. To me, 806 00:37:11,610 --> 00:37:13,970 Speaker 2: I think they each have a part of him living 807 00:37:13,989 --> 00:37:17,250 Speaker 2: in them. Wow. My kids lost their father, but we 808 00:37:17,310 --> 00:37:19,590 Speaker 2: became a family, end quote. 809 00:37:20,219 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 810 00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:24,060 Speaker 2: And that's the story of the men now remembered as 811 00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:27,969 Speaker 2: the heroes of the 88th floor, Frank DiMartini, Pablo Ortiz, 812 00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:31,450 Speaker 2: Carlos DaCosta, Pete Negron, and Mac Hanna. 813 00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: Wow. I had never heard of that. 814 00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: Me either. 815 00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: That's amazing. 816 00:37:36,420 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 2: Isn't that like, in all that darkness, there's a very 817 00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:42,380 Speaker 2: small silver lining. 818 00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: I love that because when I see a documentary, another 819 00:37:44,820 --> 00:37:48,330 Speaker 1: documentary about 9-11, I have the hardest time watching it 820 00:37:48,469 --> 00:37:52,820 Speaker 1: because it's just so triggering and awful and the memories 821 00:37:52,860 --> 00:37:55,609 Speaker 1: and then also the mystery around it and the corruption. 822 00:37:55,660 --> 00:37:58,990 Speaker 1: And it's just so awful. But when there's really lovely 823 00:37:59,030 --> 00:38:01,790 Speaker 1: stories that come out of it of real human bravery. 824 00:38:02,170 --> 00:38:02,410 Speaker 2: Yes. 825 00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:03,609 Speaker 1: That's what I want to hear. 826 00:38:04,050 --> 00:38:06,830 Speaker 2: Right. It's like those people in that stairwell didn't go 827 00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:09,830 Speaker 2: out of my way, old lady. Like that is where 828 00:38:09,890 --> 00:38:13,109 Speaker 2: stuff like that usually happens. And people usually use that 829 00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:16,150 Speaker 2: as the excuse of, well, there's no women and children first. 830 00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 2: I had to get out, whatever it is. And it 831 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,250 Speaker 2: sounds like just the opposite is what was going on 832 00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:21,910 Speaker 2: in that stairwell. 833 00:38:21,950 --> 00:38:24,570 Speaker 1: It's that Mr. Rogers saying, look for the helpers. 834 00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:25,709 Speaker 2: Is that right? Yeah. 835 00:38:25,989 --> 00:38:30,810 Speaker 1: Well, great job. Good solo episode for the 25th anniversary. 836 00:38:30,850 --> 00:38:34,790 Speaker 1: The 25th anniversary. You weren't living there then, right? 837 00:38:34,850 --> 00:38:37,790 Speaker 2: No. No, no. I was in LA and my sister 838 00:38:37,989 --> 00:38:40,870 Speaker 2: called and said they attacked the White House and I 839 00:38:40,910 --> 00:38:44,149 Speaker 2: thought she meant aliens. And the beginning of that day 840 00:38:44,210 --> 00:38:48,149 Speaker 2: was so mind-blowing to me. And then I was like, oh, wait, what? 841 00:38:48,250 --> 00:38:51,710 Speaker 2: And then it was like, It was so strangely real. Yeah. 842 00:38:51,790 --> 00:38:54,589 Speaker 2: Like you could feel all of us adjusting to this 843 00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:55,230 Speaker 2: new reality. 844 00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:57,529 Speaker 1: Totally. When it felt like a movie and then it 845 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: didn't anymore because it was reality. Yeah. 846 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:01,100 Speaker 2: Wow. 847 00:39:01,180 --> 00:39:01,980 Speaker 1: Well, good job. 848 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:02,980 Speaker 2: Thank you. 849 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:03,820 Speaker 1: Good solo. 850 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,060 Speaker 2: Thank you. Maybe in the spirit of all of that today, tomorrow, 851 00:39:08,580 --> 00:39:10,820 Speaker 2: these next couple of days, just try to be the 852 00:39:10,860 --> 00:39:12,660 Speaker 2: brave one. See what you can do. 853 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,509 Speaker 1: I love that. Be nice to people. 854 00:39:14,890 --> 00:39:15,140 Speaker 2: Maybe. 855 00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:18,870 Speaker 1: No, don't take that out. What would Dolly do? 856 00:39:21,450 --> 00:39:23,899 Speaker 2: It was like you hated your own idea. Be nice 857 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:24,819 Speaker 2: to people? No. 858 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: That's too much. 859 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:26,940 Speaker 2: Don't be crazy. 860 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:28,469 Speaker 1: Yeah, but what would Dolly do? 861 00:39:28,489 --> 00:39:29,989 Speaker 2: What would Dolly do? There you go. 862 00:39:30,130 --> 00:39:34,330 Speaker 1: Okay. 863 00:39:34,590 --> 00:39:35,910 Speaker 2: Here's what we know Dolly would do. 864 00:39:36,350 --> 00:39:40,650 Speaker 1: Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you 865 00:39:40,670 --> 00:39:41,170 Speaker 1: want a cookie? 866 00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 2: This has been an Exactly Right production. 867 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: Our managing producer is Molly Smith. 868 00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 2: Our consulting producer is Kate Schellenbach. 869 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 1: Our creative lead is Allison Agosti. 870 00:39:57,140 --> 00:39:59,900 Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is 871 00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:01,180 Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo. 872 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,500 Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci. 873 00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:06,300 Speaker 2: Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Allie Elkin. 874 00:40:06,510 --> 00:40:10,110 Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com and follow the 875 00:40:10,130 --> 00:40:12,030 Speaker 1: show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder. 876 00:40:12,270 --> 00:40:15,569 Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 877 00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:17,050 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. 878 00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:20,250 Speaker 1: Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for 879 00:40:20,290 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 1: My Favorite Murder, add us to your list, and hit 880 00:40:22,739 --> 00:40:26,500 Speaker 1: the double thumbs up button. Goodbye.