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Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer.

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Speaker 1: So Carmen, Uh, what have you been doing? Are you

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Speaker 1: still a biologist? That's a good question. Really, it's like

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Speaker 1: up in the air. No, it's not up in there

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Speaker 1: at all. That's never been up in the air. But

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Speaker 1: as usual, I am just still patching things together. And um,

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Speaker 1: let's see, since I was last year, since you were

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Speaker 1: last in this studio, in this studio, I spent a

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Speaker 1: winter um helping on a new project that is happening

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Speaker 1: in Washington State. It's a big predator prey interaction project.

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Speaker 1: So I'm already interested. Well. Um, so wolves have been

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Speaker 1: returning to Washington on their own, walking in um, just

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Speaker 1: like regular old animals, Just like regular old animals. Not ino, No,

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Speaker 1: not in the back of trucks. Uh. They have four

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Speaker 1: legs and they can travel real far. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: peop where they're coming from? And my part of the state,

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Speaker 1: in the Cascades, they're probably coming down from BC, whereas

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Speaker 1: over in the northeast of the state they're probably trickling

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Speaker 1: over from from Idaho, which are trickling over from the

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Speaker 1: Yellowstone re interduction right and yeah, or and south from

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Speaker 1: from Canada. Um Oh, so you think that some so,

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Speaker 1: but if you think it's fair to say that if

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Speaker 1: you took if you look at Washington State, do you

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Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that some is definitely fair

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Speaker 1: to say that some wolds are coming out of Canada

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Speaker 1: and would becoming regardless of the Yellowstone work from the nineties.

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Speaker 1: But is it fair to say that some are coming

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Speaker 1: from the reintroduction work that happened in Yellowstone in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: from them going into Idaho and then flowing over into Washington. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, this has raised questions about what might be

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Speaker 1: happening to um our ungulate populations. There's a big mule

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Speaker 1: deer heard in the Cascades in the Menhou Valley where

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Speaker 1: I live. Um and so that's one of the steady areas.

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Speaker 1: They're also looking at possible cougar wolf interactions, other interactions

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Speaker 1: with other like what happens when a wolf and a

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Speaker 1: cougar get together? Yeah, what happens when they're sharing the landscape? Um?

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Speaker 1: And then over there's another study area over in the

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Speaker 1: northeast area, and there they've got a lot more white

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Speaker 1: tail and elk, and so they're looking at interactions with

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Speaker 1: with um white tail and elk, and then also with

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Speaker 1: cougars and wolves over there and another smaller carnivores too.

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Speaker 1: But to do all this, these animals need collars on.

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Speaker 1: So UM. Anyway back to what I did this winner,

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Speaker 1: I helped put collars on cougars and then we did

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Speaker 1: a deer capture effort so UM. So that was a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun. And then over the summer. Right now,

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Speaker 1: how how is she? How you put them on? There?

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Speaker 1: This is a good time for that. On what how

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Speaker 1: you got the collars on the wolves and the cougars.

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Speaker 1: The wolves already a lot of them already had have

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Speaker 1: callers on. The state does a continual monitoring, so the

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Speaker 1: state's putting collars on. There was also some callers left

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Speaker 1: over from a project I was on a while ago

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Speaker 1: out of Washington State University UM looking at wolf predation UM,

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Speaker 1: and so there were already some callers on from that

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Speaker 1: project as well. So the wolves were that's kind of

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Speaker 1: an ongoing thing. UM. The cougars UM. A woman out

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Speaker 1: of University of Washington. A PhD student is heading that

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Speaker 1: up and she's um working in both study areas, and

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Speaker 1: there's houndsmen in both study areas. Actually Bart George is

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Speaker 1: the one from the northeast with that guy. Well, I

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Speaker 1: haven't um, well, no that's not true. Worked with him

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Speaker 1: on the deer captures. But all right, I'll tell him

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Speaker 1: you got you got a problem with him anyway, houndsmen

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Speaker 1: that were incredible and their dogs that were really incredible

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Speaker 1: to work with. Um. So they we'd just go out

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Speaker 1: when there was um, you know, it was all snowy.

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Speaker 1: So you're using this snow tracking snowmobiling around looking for

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Speaker 1: for cougar tracks. And then and um, if you find

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Speaker 1: cougar tracks that seem fresh, they load the dogs up.

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Speaker 1: They had these cool little trailers stowmobile trailers to pull

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Speaker 1: the dogs out there and set the dogs on them.

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Speaker 1: And they would just work and and find those cats

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Speaker 1: and tree them and then set up nets around the

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Speaker 1: tree and and dart. They can really to catch it

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Speaker 1: because they don't want it to get hurt falling out right,

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Speaker 1: So you can set up these huge nets. Well net

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Speaker 1: isn't quite the right word. It's like a big canvas

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Speaker 1: thing and it's um, it's two of them, and so

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Speaker 1: it's it's around the circumference of the tree. And then

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Speaker 1: you stretch it out. It's probably a I don't know,

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Speaker 1: ten or fifteen foot diameter. You've got a clear a

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Speaker 1: lot of brush for you string this net, probably if

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Speaker 1: there's brushing the way. Yeah, and then then you're pulling

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Speaker 1: it out and tying it off the trees um and

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Speaker 1: you're trying to guess, you know, where where it might

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Speaker 1: fall and and block any dangerous things like rocks stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah. So anyway, the idea is that the

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Speaker 1: cougar falls into the net as it falls. But if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't, if it gets hung up, then um, the

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Speaker 1: w df W biologist who was heading up the capture

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Speaker 1: would put on climbing hooks, climb up there and and

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Speaker 1: lower the cat down. So but usually it seems like

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Speaker 1: they fell out. That's easy from there. No, when you

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Speaker 1: hit the cougar with the tranquilizes are dark, how long

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Speaker 1: has it take before he dozes off? As long as

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Speaker 1: it was a good hitt and it got a good

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Speaker 1: dose and it got enough I don't know, maybe ten minutes,

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Speaker 1: ten fifteen minutes, and this whole time the dogs are

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Speaker 1: just going nuts and you got to restrain those dogs.

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Speaker 1: He'll tear it at you to restrain them. Yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is that done by like a rifle? Yeah, tranquilizes a gun,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Um and then the um So for capturing

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Speaker 1: mule deer, that was actually really fun. And one of

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Speaker 1: the techniques for catching deer is to set up on

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Speaker 1: their winter range huge um nets, so hundreds of feet

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Speaker 1: of nets, um, and you set them up in topography

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Speaker 1: that might sort of funnel them towards your nets. And

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Speaker 1: then um people hide in snow forts or whatever little

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Speaker 1: fort they can make amongst these nets are kind of

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Speaker 1: set up in in in rows and in various places,

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Speaker 1: so his hiding. Meanwhile, I gotta understand the nets are

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Speaker 1: laid flat. No, No, they're standing up there probably I

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Speaker 1: don't know, ten feet tall and maybe strung together, so

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Speaker 1: they might be a couple hundred feet. Why they're like

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Speaker 1: if you had drift drift nets or something, so you

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Speaker 1: might have um, sort of layers of them like a

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Speaker 1: like a stadium going down a drawer or something. So

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Speaker 1: you're hiding amongst the nets snow fort, maybe a white

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Speaker 1: sheet over your head or whatever, and um, meanwhile there

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Speaker 1: are helicopters or a helicopter driving around and they they

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Speaker 1: pick up deer and sort of slowly gently pushed them

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Speaker 1: towards the nets and the helicopters going and you're in

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Speaker 1: your fort and you hear the helicopter and your heart

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Speaker 1: starts beating really fast, and all of a sudden, there's

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Speaker 1: deer just running right at you. They run into the

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Speaker 1: nets and you had big giant box. They avoided that.

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Speaker 1: They avoided that. It was winter so they didn't have

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Speaker 1: their antlers. But um, we were just coloring doughs like

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Speaker 1: you just wanted the dosh. Um. They leap into the net,

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Speaker 1: they get stuck, You hop out of your fort and

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Speaker 1: um spoon them basically. So you you run up and

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Speaker 1: you start spooning them. Yeah, you straining up, big spoon,

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Speaker 1: big spoon, um, and I mean you're latching yourself onto

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Speaker 1: the back of the deer. Yeah. So they're they're probably

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Speaker 1: kind of down on the ground, you know, tang in

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Speaker 1: the net, and you come behind them. You don't approach

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Speaker 1: from the front, right right, you don't want to get clovered.

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Speaker 1: You come from behind and sort of just give them

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Speaker 1: a big spoon hug thing, uh with your legs as well,

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Speaker 1: and you want I learned the hard way. You want

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Speaker 1: your your weight towards the back, um, because otherways they

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Speaker 1: can get their back feet under them again and they

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Speaker 1: can buck you. But um it actually I'm making it

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Speaker 1: sound harder than it was. No, I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they No, I don't get that sense. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's like it's a strong animal. It's a strong animal.

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Speaker 1: How how hung up in the fence are they? They

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Speaker 1: can get pretty hung up. So you so you spoon them,

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Speaker 1: you've got them, You're you're grabbing their their legs so

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Speaker 1: that they're not kicking once you've got it restrained people.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. Yeah, yeah, just sort

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Speaker 1: of depending on the deer and how worked up they were,

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Speaker 1: I guess. So do you have your face just like

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Speaker 1: really tucked into the side of like the neck so

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Speaker 1: you're not yeah, or kind of in the shoulders so

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Speaker 1: you're not getting headbutted. Yeah, and so you're just you're

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Speaker 1: just yeah, it's like extremely cuddly with with this deer.

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Speaker 1: How hook in one in one set where we were

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Speaker 1: we were, um, they were pulling in small groups of

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Speaker 1: maybe four four or five deer. Um. But we had

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Speaker 1: a lot of people and so dar it hit the nets.

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Speaker 1: Designated tacklers like myself, that was my job tackle the deer.

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Speaker 1: Then other biologists come put a face cloth on or

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Speaker 1: not like an I cover. They just chill right out.

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Speaker 1: Then right, they chill right out. And if they aren't

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Speaker 1: getting calm, and you know, they're monitoring their vitals that

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Speaker 1: their vitals seem a little higher or whatever, they can

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Speaker 1: be tranquilized to just help ease them through that where

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Speaker 1: your goals are not tranquiliz them. Um, it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: fast recovery if you don't, you know, because then they're

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Speaker 1: just going to jump up and hop away. It's pretty

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Speaker 1: fast recovery even with this particular drug. But um, it

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Speaker 1: was pretty easy to just restrain them really quick, slap

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Speaker 1: a collar on, take some measurements, and then they just

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Speaker 1: go on their way. And what's their attitude when they

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Speaker 1: jumped back up again? M hmm, bewildered. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It looked like a little like whoa yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: but then they quickly pull it together and get out

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Speaker 1: of town. Ye exactly. Yeah. Have has anybody have any

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Speaker 1: of that? Have you guys been checking on any interactions

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Speaker 1: yet there's it too soon. Um. I'm not really a

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Speaker 1: part of that project right now, so I'm not completely

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Speaker 1: up to date. But you're just you were part of

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Speaker 1: the collaring but not part of the monitoring. So um.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, basically so they as of the end of

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Speaker 1: this summer, none of them had died from anything. My

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Speaker 1: husband actually almost hit one in his giant work truck,

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Speaker 1: but almost one, yeah, exactly. Um, but otherwise as of

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Speaker 1: the end of the summer, they were doing Okay, I

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Speaker 1: talked about this before. They did a big collaring study

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Speaker 1: one time, um up near Juno, and they had a

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Speaker 1: collard moose I believe it is a moose, not a caribou.

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Speaker 1: A collared moose fell into a crevass. It was scavenged

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Speaker 1: by a collard grizzly that fell into the crevasse and

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Speaker 1: died too. And then those carcasses were scavenged by a

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Speaker 1: collared wolverine. That's lots of collars, lots of stuff with

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Speaker 1: collars commingling. Yeah, that's very cool. That's kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: you'll be looking for the study. Yeah, but are there

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Speaker 1: issues in coloring these deer in because you're you're picking

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Speaker 1: them up and really like family groups. Right. Well there, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's on their winter range, so they're pretty dense on

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Speaker 1: the range anyway. But that was one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: they were bringing in small groups. They pick off a

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Speaker 1: couple from a group because we didn't want to get

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Speaker 1: a bunch of callers in a group that's hanging out.

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Speaker 1: I had this very I've changed the story slightly because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to give away information to anybody, but

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Speaker 1: who were having a very hard mule deer season in

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Speaker 1: Idaho and we all, yeah, and pure curiosity. Everybody knows

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Speaker 1: a bunch of biologists and uh. A friend of mine

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Speaker 1: had called and the information that he got was, there

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Speaker 1: are only four color deer left in your unit. I

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Speaker 1: went out the next day and found three colored here

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Speaker 1: in one group. I was like, huh, what are the

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Speaker 1: odds of that? That's like a thing doing this poorly

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Speaker 1: because I found all three in one spot at the

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Speaker 1: exact same time. But Carmen can speak to this better

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Speaker 1: than I can. But that's, you know, the survey strategy

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Speaker 1: called mark and recapture. We'll be like, let's say you

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Speaker 1: in Karmen craping where I'm wrong or add color to

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Speaker 1: this after I exp playing my understanding of mark and recrapture.

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Speaker 1: But let's say you have a lake and you're like,

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Speaker 1: how many while I are in here anyway, okay, and

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Speaker 1: you're going pull the scene through the thing and catch

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Speaker 1: a hunter walleye and put a tag in each walleye,

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Speaker 1: and then over the course of the weekend, you know,

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Speaker 1: guys catch three hundred fish, including ninety walleye with a

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Speaker 1: tag in them. You'd be like, I have a pretty

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Speaker 1: good sense of how many wallye. Or in this lake

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Speaker 1: where we're catching in a sample size of three hund

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Speaker 1: we've got the collared ones. Or imagine you you tag

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Speaker 1: a hundred walleye and then people fish for three years

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Speaker 1: and pull hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of wally out

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Speaker 1: of the lake and no one ever finds one of

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Speaker 1: the tag in it. They're like, man, this shipload a

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Speaker 1: wall in this lake. Sure. So if you know there's

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Speaker 1: in the whole unit, right, there's four deer left with

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Speaker 1: collars and you go find three, I'd be like, amy

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Speaker 1: deer in this unit, yes, which was based on is

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Speaker 1: the case? How's that? Was that a good job? Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good description of that. The only thing I

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Speaker 1: was going to say is that it might not have

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Speaker 1: been a Mark re capture that. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of just thinking along the lines of migration corridor. Um,

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Speaker 1: how these deer moving. Not all the deer moved from

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Speaker 1: one spot through one area to the next spot. So

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Speaker 1: I was like, it seems odd to me that of

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Speaker 1: the colored deer left are in this very small little

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Speaker 1: hillside that I picked out. I want to clear, I

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Speaker 1: didn't mean that. I don't want you think I'm a dumbass.

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Speaker 1: I didn't mean that as Mark catcher. I just meant

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Speaker 1: like as a way to say, like if I knew

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Speaker 1: there was four right, yeah, no, yeah, I get what

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Speaker 1: you're saying. I don't think you're dumb. I totally follow

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Speaker 1: that made total sense. I think this is just a

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Speaker 1: different situation. In my mind, it was probably a different question.

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Speaker 1: Who knows what the question was that they were putting

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Speaker 1: callers out there for. But so, no, they weren't doing

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Speaker 1: a bad job. I don't know. So because I'm like

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Speaker 1: trying to follow your career now, um, as a as

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Speaker 1: a budding is not the right word, as an up

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Speaker 1: and coming field biologist. You're right, now, not like you're

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Speaker 1: not what are you doing right this second? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know you're right right the second, but where are you?

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Speaker 1: What are you doing right now? Right now? So? Well,

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Speaker 1: are you going to be working on another project? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I have another one coming up right now. I'm working

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Speaker 1: as a baker making coffees for people. And when's your

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Speaker 1: next project? Come up? In January? Won't be and that's

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Speaker 1: gonna be another dear, dear thing. I've been doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of deer things lately. So over the summer I

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Speaker 1: was doing for the same Predator Prey Project UM coordinating

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Speaker 1: the capture season for fawns, putting college on fawnds over

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Speaker 1: the northeast part of the state as a part of

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Speaker 1: this to see how what UM fawon survival rate is

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Speaker 1: over there as a part of this bigger picture predator

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Speaker 1: Prey project. So did that and then um, yeah, nothing

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Speaker 1: was was starting up and in the area that I

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Speaker 1: live right after that, So I've been just working at bakery,

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Speaker 1: which is great place to be for the fall, and

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Speaker 1: and then next doing another deer capture project totally different.

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Speaker 1: This is with UM Department of Transportation because the stretch

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Speaker 1: of highway that goes through the Mahow Valley apparently has

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Speaker 1: one of the highest rates of road kill deer in

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Speaker 1: the state. So going to be callering deer there and

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out if there are certain habitat variables

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Speaker 1: along stretches of highways where or of that highway where

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Speaker 1: more deer are getting hit. So they're trying to understand

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Speaker 1: if there's like some Yeah, it's a habitat study basically

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Speaker 1: trying to see if we can link clues about the

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Speaker 1: habitat to hire collision rates on the road. So it'll

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Speaker 1: be a state level project. It's just in the Madhouse.

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Speaker 1: So if you but I'm saying it's conducted by the state. No,

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Speaker 1: this is Washington State University and Department of Transportation. So like,

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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen to you in the long Like what's

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Speaker 1: gonna what will happen in the long run? As a

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Speaker 1: biologist in the long run, I'm but you gotta move. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing that I'm making it hard on myself

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Speaker 1: because I love where I live, um and I've worked

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Speaker 1: there for so long and on so many different projects

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Speaker 1: that um, I've gotten pretty um attached to that landscape

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Speaker 1: and just passionate about it, and that's the landscape in

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Speaker 1: the wildlife that I want to be working with and

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Speaker 1: and trying to improve. Um. My husband has a really

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Speaker 1: good job there too, so that's a factor. I have

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Speaker 1: family there, and so I'm I'm making If I wanted

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Speaker 1: to just move around, which I did quite a bit

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Speaker 1: when I was younger, Um, it would be a lot

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Speaker 1: easier to to find a permanent job. But there's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a tiny place. There's no no stoplights

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Speaker 1: in this valley. It's it's small, so there's not there's

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Speaker 1: not a lot of permanent jobs. Yeah, So I'm just

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Speaker 1: biding my time until something does come up and just

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Speaker 1: patching things together. So I'm kind of unusual. And then

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Speaker 1: I'm almost thirty five and I'm I'm still patching things

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Speaker 1: together doing field work. But on the other hand, that's

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Speaker 1: really what I love to do, is is being out

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Speaker 1: in the field and doing field work. And then what happened,

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Speaker 1: because it's the other thing I wanted to check back

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Speaker 1: with you in because I'm interested in your in your

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Speaker 1: beginning to hunt. Mm hmm, Yeah, So what happened there

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Speaker 1: this year? Yanni said that you said that you had

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Speaker 1: what how did she say? What'd you say? Long? Argueous, challenging.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it was it was a great hunting season, I

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Speaker 1: mean for home real quick though, this is your what's

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Speaker 1: hunting season? What? What? Isn't a word? But you get

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um

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Speaker 1: tenth maybe I think so almost maybe I yeah. So

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Speaker 1: I started hunting, Um, I started getting really intrigued and interested. Um.

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Speaker 1: And when I was doing my undergrad at humblest State

334
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Speaker 1: University in wildlife. Um, I didn't grow up in a

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Speaker 1: hunting family. UM, did some fishing with my grandpa. Whatever.

336
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Speaker 1: You then you're going to be a biologist? Yeah, yeah,

337
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 1: I've always known. Yeah, I was in school for wildlife

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Speaker 1: biology and I always wanted to do that. Um, So

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Speaker 1: I was already, um, you know, grew up camping and

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Speaker 1: backpacking in the out of doors and grew up in

341
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Speaker 1: a rural area and so, UM, I knew I loved

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Speaker 1: being outside and all that, and I was doing wildlife

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Speaker 1: work and I, um, yeah, I don't know, it's just

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Speaker 1: something about it got me and I wanted to start hunting,

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Speaker 1: and so I just did it. And I took my

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Speaker 1: hunter safety and where safety on Bambridge Island, Washington in

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Speaker 1: the Sportsman clubhouse. Um did that and I went. My

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Speaker 1: first hunting trip was with a family friend in northern

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Speaker 1: California and the Trinity alps Um and he had been

350
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Speaker 1: backup I'm getting not lost, but close to it. So

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Speaker 1: you're going to school down in northern California, in big

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Speaker 1: dope smoking country down to home. So you're like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to get into it. I'd like to get

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Speaker 1: involved in this hunting. Yeah. So you wind up out

355
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Speaker 1: on Bainbridge Island. Sorry, yeah, that is confusing safety. Yeah,

356
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: that was the closest place. No, I'm I'm from Washington

357
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: over in that area. That was. Yeah, So I was

358
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 1: just it was a convenient time location to take it.

359
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 1: You're living on on Bainbridge Island, but it was near

360
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Speaker 1: to where my parents live. I was, I don't know,

361
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: home on a break or something like that. So you're

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Speaker 1: taking a ferry to go do hunter safety. There's a

363
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Speaker 1: bridge ocase you're coming from the peninsula side. Yeah. Yeah,

364
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Speaker 1: we just had a guest down from Bainbridge. Yeah. The

365
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Speaker 1: writer John Mullam heard him. Just check them out. Um, okay,

366
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Speaker 1: so I get it now. Yeah, so I was picture,

367
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Speaker 1: you're taking a ferry from somewhere to go to hunter Safe,

368
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Speaker 1: you're coming from You're coming from the Olympic Price actin anyway.

369
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Speaker 1: So I got that and and yeah, I lined up

370
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Speaker 1: this trip with UM in California. Back down in California

371
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Speaker 1: with a family friend who had been packing. His family

372
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Speaker 1: had been packing into this particular spot for I don't know,

373
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Speaker 1: like fifty years or something. UM, and I was the

374
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Speaker 1: first woman and I think the only one since to

375
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Speaker 1: ever go to that to that him on the trip. Yeah, Um,

376
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: so it was. And that's not by design. I'm guessing

377
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Speaker 1: that's just by the fact the only ten percent of

378
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: the hunters in America are women. Yeah, basically, No, it

379
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Speaker 1: wasn't like no girls allowed, inevitable sign no no on

380
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Speaker 1: the clubhouse door. No, Hey, there are a lot of

381
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Speaker 1: signs on a lot of clubhouse doors. That's true. I

382
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: was at a thing this year. I was at a

383
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: thing this year where like no girls allowed for real

384
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Speaker 1: hunting hunting thing. I'm leave it there. Sometimes you know

385
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: signs that aren't there, but you can tell they're there,

386
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: And there's sometimes just signs that are there. Now, not

387
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: that I condone it's easier for me to understand that

388
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: the signs not there, but it's understood. But it strikes

389
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: me as really strange when the sign is there. That's

390
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: pretty ballsy in this day and age. Do you think

391
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: in a situation where women come and knocking that want

392
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: please let me read the sign? That's weird. So what

393
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 1: happens on this trip? First and last, first and last

394
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: girl to ever come with these guys. Yeah, yeah, it

395
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: was the first time they ever got skunked? Man? Really,

396
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: did they draw a connection? No? But it has always

397
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: haunted me, you know, because you're here. You know, back

398
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: in the old days, no women allowed on the ships

399
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, So I've always worried that maybe,

400
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: you know, somebody might have How many people were on

401
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: this trip. It was just my dad and um this

402
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: family friends. So there are only three of us and

403
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: we got packed in on mules, dropped off, dropped off

404
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: and no black tails. So it was certainly near the coast,

405
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: and um, it was awesome. I learned a ton and

406
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: it was Um, it was a great trip. Did you

407
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: see some critters? We saw some critters. Apparently it was

408
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't the curse of having a female there. It

409
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: was a really dry year. Things were different, and there

410
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: had also been an article in a hunting magazine about

411
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: this spot that previously that it always a lot of

412
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: good spots, right, and so there were a lot. A

413
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: lot of people showed up, whereas normally they had the

414
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: place themselves. So we saw some some deer and I

415
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: had a blast and I was definitely hooked. Um didn't

416
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: even get a crack. No shots there were shots fired.

417
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't have any shots fired, but there

418
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: was a miss early on in the trip. The family

419
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: friend that that we were with, my dad wasn't hunting.

420
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: He was just along for fun, and yeah, my dad

421
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't hunt, so your old man. It was like, hey,

422
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: that sounds fun. I'll come along, but I'm not hunting.

423
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: But you're hunting. And the family friend he takes a poke,

424
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, and You're like, I got to do more

425
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: of this. Yeah. And so then I just started going

426
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: alone um or with anybody I could drag along with

427
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: me in Washington after that, because I was a Washington resident.

428
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: So I went um around the plain area in the

429
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: North Cascades and just dragged my ass up ridiculously. Steve

430
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: mountains in horrible um vine maple with little to no guidance,

431
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: little to no guidance. I mean, I'm I'm comfortable in

432
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: the woods. That wasn't it. But as far it was

433
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 1: like someone's like, hey, man, go here, sit on this right,

434
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: a little perch and observe and you'll see, you know,

435
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: around nine am watching right that kind of intel no

436
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: no intel um. But it was a blast, and you

437
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: know I learned, Okay, crawling through vine maple isn't. There

438
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: were deer there, I saw them, But crawling through vine

439
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: maple up these cliffs isn't. Can you describe fine maple?

440
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: No vine maple is It's kind of like um slide alder,

441
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: that same sort of idea, where it's just really dense

442
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: branches that you're having to contour it through, and if

443
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: you're going uphill, it's coming downhill and you're trying to

444
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: get oh yeah, like the way all there's branches downhill

445
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: and girls parallel to the ground. Yeah yeah, exactly. That's

446
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: a real plant that's hard to fall in love with. Yeah, exactly,

447
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: So same thing not on this the cocktail of ruby

448
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: with the trin and these are not there's some nasty

449
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: country in there, and then you have poison oak. Maybe

450
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: I don't get so I'm very lucky like that. Yeah special, yes, okay,

451
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: so so I won't get the timeline. I'm trying to

452
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: establish the chronology of a of a hunter. Not just that,

453
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: but we're gonna get into the chronology of a female hunter,

454
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: the creation of a female hunter. You're comfortable with that,

455
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: which might not even be a thing I'm gonna ask,

456
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: but Year one, are you cool on all this right now?

457
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: Tracking no questions whatsoever. I'm just listening, okay, just want

458
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: to make sure. If something comes up, jump in. I'll

459
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: try for sure. Ten years ago, you do the trip now.

460
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: I don't expect you to have like a like a

461
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: You haven't kept the hunting journal, have you? No? I haven't, man,

462
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: I for years kept hunting, extremely detailed hunting journals. It's

463
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: fascinating to go look at those now I quit. I

464
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: wish I hadn't quit. Whether what happened, who I was with,

465
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: where I was. Oh, man, it takes like a lot

466
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: of energy to do it, but my god, I was

467
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: I was not too long ago, reviewing hunting journals from

468
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: a long time ago. And if I had done that,

469
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: my whole life because a lot of times I'm like,

470
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I don't know. I know this one

471
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: spile was pretty sweet. I can't remember where it was

472
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: and I lost my map, But there's honest to goodness

473
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: places where we went and saw bears spring bear hunting

474
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: that I cannot remember where it was that we saw him,

475
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: but I know that was like, yeah, there's a slide

476
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: up some creek and I just you know, you remember

477
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: exactly everything, but just like would never be able to

478
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: walk there again because we checked out a lot of

479
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: trainages and it's become blurry and time. So now that

480
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: you need that level of detail. But what happened to

481
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: nine what happened nine years ago? So the year after

482
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: the first one, is that what you mean? Um, that's

483
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: when I went to playing and crawled around and fine, fine,

484
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: maple saw some deer through the brain nothing happened, Yeah,

485
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: because they were does Yeah yeah, so didn't see any

486
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: bucks and you're hunting by yourself. Um that those times

487
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: I was with some other family friends that I drug

488
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: along some um, some guys that were younger than me,

489
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: and they'd never hunted either, And you weren't married at

490
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: this point. So you weren't hunting with your husband at all.

491
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: So then, um, I did that, I think for a

492
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 1: couple of years, and then let's see what happened doing

493
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: all those couple of years. Never gotten, never got anything.

494
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: Were you seeing bucks? Uh? Nope, it just does. But

495
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: see that's what I'm saying. Why are you still okay

496
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: at that point? Okay, go ahead and finish what you're saying.

497
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't hunting effectively at that point. I didn't know

498
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: what I was doing. I knew that I wanted to

499
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: challenge myself and be having a really hard time, so

500
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: I was doing that. But because I was crawling through

501
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: vine maple going up these really steep areas, you know,

502
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: there's no way to be quiet. You couldn't. I wasn't.

503
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: I didn't have good visibility. I was just bumbling around.

504
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: I didn't really know if I walk long enough and

505
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 1: hard enough eventually the exactly if I'm soaking wet? Yeah? Yeah?

506
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: And why but what kept you wanting to keep doing it?

507
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: Because people like instant gratification? Yeah, Um, I don't know.

508
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: I was just determined and I I just love being

509
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: out there. Um were you meantime saying to people a

510
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: trailheads like, hey, do you see any deer on or

511
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,719
Speaker 1: you like running into all? Yeah, I was reading books.

512
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: I was talking to anybody I could, friends that hunted

513
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And when you read books, and

514
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: the books said find um like a good place where

515
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: you can really observe the surrounding country. That didn't make

516
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: sense because you're in thick stuff. Exactly creative, but it

517
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: didn't match up like what you were seeing, right. But

518
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: so then I was learning about still hunting, and so

519
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: I was trying to do that too. Um. But I mean,

520
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: and this is in Washington. It's a week. You've got

521
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: a week and a lot of times I did work

522
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: during the week. So even though it was a couple

523
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: of seasons, it was like days a couple, you know,

524
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: going on general firearm right, exactly, general firearm right, not

525
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: ten years, you got two days a year. No, this

526
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: was just in the beginning. This is we're just we're

527
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: only in years nine, eight seven or thereabouts right now,

528
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: something like that. I don't remember exactly. But yeah, and

529
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: you're seeing other animals, yeah, yeah, seeing those seeing you know,

530
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: bears and whatever else is out there. Lions Nope, no, no,

531
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: not in those years. Nope, not a very opy spot

532
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: out there. Okay, what's wrong? Sure? Then what happened? Okay?

533
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: So then, um, I decided to move to the Mahou

534
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: Valley in the Cascades. Very different scene. It's open there,

535
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: there's tons of meal deer comparatively, and so I, um,

536
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: I bought my first truck and it was stick which

537
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: I had never driven. So I I drove out there

538
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: and learned stick on the way and pulled into a

539
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: spot that I had breathed was a Toyota Tacoma. Nice rig. Yeah,

540
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: and he's got that same rig. I'm thinking, is that

541
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 1: a great or down grade? Joannie smaller? Okay, So there

542
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: you are driving a stick shift Toyo Tacoma yea for

543
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: the first time. And I pulled into this spot where

544
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm decided I was going to hunt. Um And how

545
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: did you decide this? I looked at maps and then

546
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: I breathe play scouted it and yeah, I just sort

547
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: of it was a lot of just pulling out of

548
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: the hat sort of. And still no one has said

549
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: to you, hey, go do this, no mm hmm. I

550
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: mean I I learned some from from this family friend

551
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: on that first trip about you know sitting that. So

552
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: his technique where we went was to you'd hike to

553
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: these spots that he knew, you know, they'd consent, consistently

554
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: gotten deer, and it'd be like a brushy, a little

555
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: drawer or something, and we'd wait and then if that

556
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: didn't work out, we'd go somewhere else. But meanwhile, how

557
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: is it that they're not Meanwhile, why how is it

558
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: there aren't guys saying like, come hunt with us. Steve

559
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,919
Speaker 1: is perplexed the universe hadn't offered you all some sort

560
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: of guidance. Yeah. I also kind of had a thing

561
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: where I really wanted to do it alone. Okay, yeah,

562
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: because I could imagine, I could imagine that in a

563
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: in a small mountain town where men tend to like

564
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: outnumber women by a lot, Okay, that there'd be a

565
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: lot of guys would be like, um, hey, let's go hunting.

566
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: You know, I mean that as a euphemism. I mean

567
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: there's be like like, oh, you you're like struggling to

568
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: get into hunting. Come with us. You were rejecting those proposals.

569
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: I wasn't getting those proposals, know, I mean I just

570
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: so in the case of menhow I didn't. I mean,

571
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: I've literally pulled right into the camping spot with all

572
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: my all my stuff, and where you're getting funny looks

573
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: like here's this lone woman out hunting, which is just

574
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: you like, I'm sorry, just like it's not something not

575
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: that it doesn't happen. It happens, but it's not something

576
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: you typically see. You see a lot of groups of

577
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: guys driving around on a truck Chester fried Chicken. That's

578
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: the thing I see oftentimes. I don't oftentimes see I

579
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm yet to see uh, just a loane

580
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: female hunter or even like a group of That's what

581
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I'm saying I haven't seen it, but I

582
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: know that happens. I know the women right met and

583
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 1: hung out with women who do do that. But I'm

584
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: never out, No, it's rare and have I'm never like out.

585
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: And I've seen some orange vest across the valley and

586
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about how upsetting that is to me, but

587
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: how it shouldn't be upstaying to me because we're all

588
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: in this brotherhood together. And then I decided to glass

589
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: them up through my spot and scope and be like, oh,

590
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: it's a woman that never happens. Damn sure what it is?

591
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: The guy? I uh, I think that I'm out in

592
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: the woods alone a lot for work, and so you

593
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: don't feel and look out of place. I don't know

594
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: what I look like, but I do comments. I get

595
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: a lot of well you do get comments. Yeah, I

596
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: have people saying telling me to be careful, you know,

597
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: if you run into somebody or people make comments. Yeah,

598
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: and I how do you reply to those comments? Well, nicely,

599
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: but it doesn't. It is irksome. It is. I find

600
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: it irksome. Um, the assumption that I need to be

601
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: cautioned or checked in with because I'm out there alone.

602
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: I wish it was different. I wish that nobody thought

603
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: I had a second thought about it, which I mean,

604
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: obviously that's wishful thinking because people are going to have

605
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: a second thoughts. They don't see it very often. But

606
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: it's kind of this this self perpetuating cycle of that's

607
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: a good way important. Yeah, people saying, you know, be

608
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: careful out there, and so then two women and so

609
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: then women being fearful to be out there. Yeah, and

610
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: I understand that because it's like you want to be

611
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: you want to think like why, uh, why do you

612
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: have to act like it's unusual, and some old guy

613
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: is gonna be like, because it is right. I'm sorry

614
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: that you want me to act like it's normal. But

615
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: that's not normal. So like we can all pretend, or

616
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: I can tell you that I hope you're careful right well,

617
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: or you could say, you know, right, exactly exactly. It's

618
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of you can make the metaphor

619
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: um sort of similar. I often when I pick up

620
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:44,479
Speaker 1: a pocket knife, I am told, don't hurt yourself. You yes,

621
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: how about when you rassling deer? Not so much. But

622
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: but the part is when I pick up a kitchen knife,

623
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: nobody ever says that, you know, And so it's, uh,

624
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: it's it's this unconscious you know, it comes from a

625
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: good place. I don't want you to get hurt, but

626
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: I also I don't need somebody to tell me when

627
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: I pick up a pocket knife to be careful. I know,

628
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: it's sure. Yeah. Now, like everyone at this table besides you,

629
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: comes from a place of incredible privilege in this society,

630
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: being like you know, white men have like a track

631
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 1: record of being in charge of stuff around hereabouts, right,

632
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: So these sorts of things when I hear about it,

633
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: like I felt like I have this knee your thing

634
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: to want to defend the people Like oh, he means,

635
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: well yeah, but how do you deal? Like when you

636
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: deal with something like that, you recognize you're like, come on, dude,

637
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: really like I need to be careful. Maybe you'll be

638
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: careful because you look like you've already have a heart

639
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: attack or whatever. You're thinking, like do you are you?

640
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: Do you get mad at the guy or you just

641
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: sort of get this like perturbed at how culture is.

642
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: I get perturbed about how culture is. It depends also

643
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: on how blatant something is. I mean, I think women

644
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: probably in general are fairly used to or maybe don't

645
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: even notice comments like that. But um, maybe because I

646
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: work in wildlife biology and specifically oftentimes with carnivores and

647
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: and also hunting, I'm often in an environment that's traditionally

648
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: male dominated. Um and so um, I am around comments

649
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: like that more maybe, And I'm also aware of them

650
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: because i'm sort of constantly, um fighting those stereotypes and

651
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: those assumptions that people might be making about me. Right,

652
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: It's easy to walk into like walk into a room

653
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: with another biologist, and if he's male, people assume that

654
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: he's a biologist and say, you know, something signs you

655
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 1: to him, maybe, but don't assume that I'm a biologist.

656
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: Have you been pairing any vegetables lately? Essentially, it is culture,

657
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: because I said, I got my own little story interject here.

658
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: I used to faith feel that same when I'd be

659
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: like in a grocery store, when I will stay at

660
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: home dad doing the grocery shopping, and I'd have my

661
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: eight months old with me, you know, and people would

662
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: be like, oh, do you know where your mother and

663
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: your wife is. You're out here alone in the world

664
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: with this child. You know. I'm like, come on, you know, yeah,

665
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, I got out of control. Man. It's fine.

666
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cook dinner tonight too. But yeah, you know, yeah,

667
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: and that's yeah. I don't want to make it sound like, oh,

668
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: this is just I think it is just a it's

669
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: a culture thing. The difference is the difference is and

670
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: this is like something that we're talking about a lot

671
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: in our culture right now. There's a difference between stereotyping

672
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: that has teeth in stereotyping that doesn't have teeth in

673
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: some directions that's toothed damaging in some directions, it's just

674
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: like weird and annoying, right, and in some directions, like

675
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: with women, has got a whole nasty history too that

676
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: goes along with it. But I mean, being stereotyped into

677
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: either gender role is isn't irksome? So yeah? But um

678
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: so now do you have you ever had you ever

679
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: been out during these early years of going out hunting?

680
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: Did you ever have guys that were just outright scamming

681
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: on you? No? But I didn't. I mean I wasn't

682
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: interacting with a lot of people either. I was trying

683
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: to get away from people. And you never had guys

684
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: make you uncomfortable out in the woods, No, in trailhead

685
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: or whatever. It was a cute little lady like you. Yeah,

686
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 1: but you're rolling that into the annoying Yeah, like that's

687
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: the annoying not threatening type. Yeah. Um, so let's continue

688
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: out with the chronology. Okay, I'm gonna return to this

689
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: and return to aspects of this, not that aspect, but

690
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: other aspects of of the female hunter experience. Um yeah,

691
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: sol quick question, do you have a lot of pink

692
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: stuff on all your stuff? I have zero pink stuff? Yeah,

693
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: so um m hm um I think in your seven,

694
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: I did eight, and what happened, well, but we missed.

695
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: My first big solo trip was when I first letter that.

696
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: Let's back up, because this was where I learned. I

697
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: learned a lot um And yeah, yeah, So I pulled

698
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: into the Manhoue Valley. I'm moving here, learning stick um,

699
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: starting a new life here. Um. But what was it

700
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: for work? It was because my sister had just moved there.

701
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: She was about to have a baby. UM. I knew

702
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: I loved the area, and I knew UM I liked

703
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: working in um high mountain areas with carnivores, and it's

704
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: a really rich environment there with um, you know, links

705
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: and wolverines and bears and everything else. So so just

706
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: you're like making a kind of move to a greener pastures,

707
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,479
Speaker 1: but not some overwhelming, like specific thing. You're chasing it, right, Yeah,

708
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: And I wanted I'd been traveling around doing different field

709
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: projects all over the country, and I was starting which

710
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: I loved, but I was starting to want a community

711
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: and a sort of set down't I guess, so I

712
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 1: just chose that spot. Um. But anyway, this was day

713
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: one and I pulled into this place where I wanted

714
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: to camp and I spent the next um eight days

715
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: hunting every day um by myself and yeah, I'd hyped

716
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: back to my truck every day. UM. And it was incredible.

717
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: I got to know this mountain really well and I

718
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: was seeing I should have shot probably five bucks that trip. Um.

719
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 1: I had opportunities. The stumbling block there was just UM,

720
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: I was really worried about UM. I don't know. It

721
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: was like I wasn't good yet at no, because it's

722
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: a three point minimum and I, um, I wasn't good yet.

723
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: A quickly figuring that out, which sounds weird three times, Yeah, exactly.

724
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: So it had to be a Michigan six or a

725
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: Western three point. Well it could be. It could only

726
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: have one antler doesn't even missues as long as one

727
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: antler has three points. So um. But I had some

728
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: incredible moments with Bucks and it was a blast. So

729
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: you'd see the book and you'd be like there'd be

730
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: a pause or you just wanted to really extra careful.

731
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: Sure there was no surprises when he got over there, right.

732
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: I also had real shitty optics And is this still

733
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: really thick country? Um? No, no more, it's more open. Yeah,

734
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: the particular mountain I was on was a little thicker,

735
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: but in general was more open. Yeah, more the what

736
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: do you mean, what are the optics? I don't know,

737
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,919
Speaker 1: off brand binoculars. Yeah, but things that I know now,

738
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: like okay, if I saw that animal again with my binoculars,

739
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: now I would know exactly what it was, that it

740
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: was legal. Um, in hindsight, you feel like there are

741
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: some legal box Oh yeah, oh absolutely, I know, like

742
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 1: I can picture the racket, yeah, exact claim. Um. And

743
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: also just I don't know that those those It probably

744
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: is something that people who have brought up hunting don't

745
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: think about. But for me, the being out there was

746
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 1: not what was hard. Figuring out just sort of smart

747
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: ways to hunt was something I had learned in the

748
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: years before that. But then those final moments between getting

749
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: something in your sights and pulling the trigger was for me. Um,

750
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: that was the stumbling block, just all the little decisions

751
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: and I had a lot of you know, fears and

752
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: anxieties about what could go wrong, and so that was

753
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: a stumbling block. But if I hadn't been alone, maybe

754
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: I probably would have gotten a deer because I might

755
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: have had somebody to say, hey, go for it. Um.

756
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: But I'm also glad that I did that trip by myself.

757
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't screw up shooting illegal block right yep, yeah, yeah,

758
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: because you know, as a guide, we'd see that a lot.

759
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: You know, people have a real easy time getting kind

760
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: of up until that moment and then when it's just

761
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: like you'd be like, yeah, peek over that hill and

762
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: kill that deer or kill that bull, they kind of

763
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: look at you like, uh, what what now? You know,

764
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: what do you mean is like pick over that hill

765
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: and kill that bull? And you're like, well, take about

766
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 1: four steps and really slowly with your gun already up,

767
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: you know, like no one you know, and there's like

768
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: you're saying, there's like a thousand little things going through

769
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: your head, and it's, uh, we're kind of coined a

770
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: term for it, right, Like just those last few moments

771
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: of like when you really go into like a kind

772
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: of a kill mode, you know, and everything else just

773
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: disappears and you're like, now it's going down. Some people

774
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: lack that decisiveness. Yeah, I was just too caught up

775
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 1: in my anxiety about was this going to be exactly right?

776
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: Was it going to go exactly right? So we were

777
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: one time. Uh, you know, there's a similar restriction with

778
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: doll sheep where rather than accounting three points, there's like

779
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: things that make a doll sheep legal or not legal,

780
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: like that when viewed from the side, their horn describes

781
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: the three sixty degree circle, or that both of the

782
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: land lamb tips, that each lamb tip is completely broken off,

783
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: or that it has seven annually seven growth rings. So

784
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: if they're not obviously full curl, it gets really difficult.

785
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: Then we were hunting with a guy at one time

786
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: where we observed one, so that's a legal ram, and

787
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: he stalked it and got up into range and we

788
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: never heard, you know, the block, and he comes back,

789
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: I don't think it's legal. Yeah, And then he had

790
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: he left early, and then we went and refound it

791
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 1: and shot at legal ram. It was like, is that

792
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: yea doubt, But people that have that doubt are It's

793
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: good to have that kind of doubt because the opposite

794
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: right that can get you in just is like the

795
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: trigger happy Yeah yeah, feller right, So I didn't. I

796
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: didn't get a deer um anyway, started living in But

797
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: you kept at it for eight days? Yeah, yeah, I

798
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: kept at it. It was blast. I mean just being

799
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: out there and actually seeing that many deer compared to

800
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 1: the years before where I hadn't been. That was exciting enough.

801
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: How many miles are you straying from your truck? I

802
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: don't know. I wasn't. I wasn't keeping track, but I

803
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: mean I'd be out all all day, hiking around, running

804
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: into other hunters a little bit, not much. Yeah, that's

805
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: a little good spot. Um. I've been there since and Nope,

806
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: I've never seen I haven't spent that much time, but

807
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: I have never seen that as many deer as I

808
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: did that year. Um. Yeah. So I started living and

809
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: working in the Mahaw Valley and um, just hunting every year,

810
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: just you know, it's a short season. And I met

811
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: my husband, he hunts, and so we started hunting hunting together. Um,

812
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: which was which is it's great? I love Um I

813
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: was let's see, it was the first winner that I

814
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: moved there. And so I was, um, helping with the

815
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: links trapping effort and also working at a bakery and

816
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: making coffee. And he is alignment and his his crew

817
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: was working in the area at that area of the

818
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: valley where the bakery was, and yeah, came into the

819
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: coffee shop. Yeah, and weally like, Um, was it quickly

820
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: established that he liked to hunt and you'd like to hunt? Yeah,

821
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: very quickly. Yeah. Um. Anyway, we started hunting together, which

822
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: was a whole nother journey. Um, just for me, adjusting

823
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: to hunting with somebody else really was a big part

824
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: of it, um, like in a negative way. Um. Yeah,

825
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: I liked hunting alone. I do like hunting alone. UM,

826
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: but I also like hunting with other people. It was

827
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: just meshing our our styles and um and yeah, getting

828
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: used to consistently hunting with somebody else. And I think

829
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: that you know, now we're married and we've been together

830
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: for a long time, and you know, when we go

831
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: on hunting trips, you might you're not always comfortable. You're tired,

832
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: you're cold, you're hungry, and so when you're with somebody

833
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: who you don't have to be on your best behavior with, um,

834
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, you can get squabbly and stuff. But we're

835
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: it's getting more and more um, harmonious, and it's always

836
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: been been great to hunt with him. It's um, it's

837
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: pretty cool to do that with with somebody that I'm

838
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: not close with. So um but anyway, back to the

839
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: hunting journey. So we just started hunting together and finally

840
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: got my my first buck and we were hunting together

841
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: and it was it was it was perfect. It was

842
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: a great spot in stock and um yeah, so that

843
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: was a great experience. And then and so what happened

844
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: with that? Like, how do you feel about that? Then?

845
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:42,479
Speaker 1: Did you feel like finally it felt like finally yep, yeah,

846
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 1: and it felt really satisfying. And and it wasn't a

847
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: huge buck or anything. I was really proud. Did you

848
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: get up the way you wanted to get it? Like,

849
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: were you still kind of doing it on your own? No,

850
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: we were together, but we were working together, so well

851
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,959
Speaker 1: it felt it felt really good. We spotted the buck

852
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: ways away and it was maybe an hour of stocking

853
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: and then and I was out in front and peeked

854
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: over this rock and the buck was bedded down maybe

855
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: forty yards for me, So it was so it was

856
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 1: it was perfect. Now did you, uh, what was your

857
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: emotional response? Were there outward manifestations of emotion? Probably? I

858
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: think that, um, I mean, you know, classic sort of

859
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: things that you would see. Was it sadness or was

860
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: it like real jumping up and down happy? It was? Um,

861
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: I don't. I wasn't jumping up and down, but it

862
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: was happy, it was relief. There might have been a

863
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: tear or two. Is that what you're getting at, because

864
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: I've yeah, I've had the good fortune to hunt with

865
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: quite a few women over the years, and um, there's

866
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: a And it's hard to understand. I don't know if

867
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 1: it's that it's a freer if it's like a freer

868
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: sort of expression, or if it's like some kind of

869
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: innate thing or trained thing. But I find the emotional response,

870
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: based on admittedly small sample size, I find that the

871
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: emotional response is often different. Yeah, well, okay, what about

872
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: this though laid on me? Could that be more that

873
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: these are people who are experiencing their first steer kill

874
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: later in life? I think? So that's what. Yeah, that's

875
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: exactly right. Because the cases I'm thinking of our people

876
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: being introduced to hunting as adults, whereas I'm hunting with

877
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: a lot of guys who hunted their whole life and

878
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: all the shock has worn off. The surprise is not

879
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: the shock. But you know what I'm saying, All they're like,

880
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: holy sh it, Yeah, I've seen plenty of man tears

881
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, I have since then. Should I was

882
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 1: on the verge this year with my mule there. God

883
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: is telling me too. You know it's funny. Who was

884
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: just telling me? They cried and they got something I've

885
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: seen you told me. Damn your cry. Sorry, go ahead,

886
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: that's what you think is going on. I think so.

887
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: I mean for me, it wasn't um sadness. It was

888
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,879
Speaker 1: just there has been so much build up and then

889
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: there was the adrenaline going and I cry easily, anyway,

890
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: I don't, I was not correcting. There were a couple

891
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: of tears. I think it was just kind of the

892
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: release of all the all the build up to that moment.

893
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: You know, I saw Yann he's uh Yan his dad Yeahan,

894
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: his dad shed a tear when when he got his

895
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: moves all right, because you got to what I was insane.

896
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering. I'm like, you were there because

897
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: when people any picture sign your hunting trip, I'm like,

898
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: we took a hunting show on our right. I see everything.

899
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: I got an eye in the sky when I review footage,

900
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: and yeah, Yan, his dad was moved emotionally. Um so sure,

901
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna give up though, I'm not going to

902
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: give up on the idea that I think it's more common. Well,

903
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: I mean, let me be clear that I think it's

904
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: a higher I'm not gonna give up on this idea

905
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: that I think that that there's a higher likelihood. And

906
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: then I could say, what what factors are at play?

907
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: A higher likelihood that a female hunter will experience the emotions,

908
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: not experienced them differently, but like, but the outward manifestations

909
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: might be different, specifically, there might be tears. Mean, no,

910
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: I think that a that there's a greater likelihood of

911
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: of emotions beyond just hell yeah, yeah, yeah, Well okay,

912
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: here's a little theory back to what we're talking about

913
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: with gender stereotypes. It's more acceptable in women right in

914
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: our society, less acceptable in our society. That's what That's

915
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: what That's what I'm That's what I'm That's what I'm

916
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: like getting at or wondering about. That's what I'm saying.

917
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's that it's that I see

918
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: saying outward manifestations. Yeah, the feeling could be the same,

919
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: and we only know about what happens when we're present.

920
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: So whose principle is it just by observing something you

921
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: change it Heidelberg Heidelberg principle. I don't know off the

922
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: top of my head. He's talking about someone's uh, astronomy,

923
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: not astrology, but astronomy. And there's this idea that by

924
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: observing something, you change it. So it's not really that

925
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: what that dude was tom about isn't really the same thing,

926
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. What I'm saying is by observing

927
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: in this interaction, you are changing it because you're a presence.

928
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: So I don't think that I'm not postulating or I'm

929
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: not saying that like, oh, woman experiences shooting a deer

930
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: differently than man. It's just a guy might say. Of

931
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: the ten things I'm feeling right now, I can tell

932
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: you the one I'm not going to act on right

933
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: because guys don't cry or guys don't act like they're conflicted. Yeah,

934
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: I will act like I'm not conflicted and act like

935
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm not about to cry. I think the last time

936
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: I had it, when I killed a big game animal.

937
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: It was pure um like relief type of tears. It

938
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: was like day five or six of the Haunt, and

939
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: I've been just homping some serious hills and was worn

940
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: out and just fatigued, probably hungry, lost like five pounds

941
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: that week, and finally it's like standing over at dead

942
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: elk and just like kind of like crying for no reason,

943
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: and you're like it's just like the relief. You're like, finally,

944
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, I got it done. I've been just like pounding, pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing.

945
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: You know. That was part of it for me that

946
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: year too, because I had been hunting on the weekends

947
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: really hard, and then during the week I was working

948
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: every day, so I'd get up and hunt out behind

949
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: the house before work, go to work, which was hiking

950
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: all day, going to um wolf kill sites, and then

951
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: I come home and hunt more, and so I was

952
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: just kind of worn out by that. When you're going

953
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: to wolf kill sites and then having a tough time

954
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: hunt we ever like, man, these wolves, these wolves have

955
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: this dialed no because they actually don't really have it

956
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: died now that I think their success rate is, it's

957
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: not what people might think it was. And a lot

958
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: of so going to wolf kill sites, you're going to

959
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: um places where there's clusters, they've got callers on taking

960
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: GPS points every two hours. So you're going to places

961
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: that I have clusters of points. Yeah, it's not like

962
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: you know something died. You just know that something went

963
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: on right, And so most of those places are betting

964
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: sites or just whatever check right exactly. So that much

965
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 1: time wolves have been hanging out. Oh it's awesome, and

966
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: you're following around the same pack and so um yeah,

967
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: you get to kind of know what what they're doing

968
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: and what they're deal is. It's really they use the

969
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 1: landscape and where their spots are and um and going

970
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: to kill sites. It's just fun. It's really cool because

971
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: you're you know, poking around trying to figure out exactly

972
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: what happened, who's been there scavenging where they actually scavenging

973
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: there's um yeah, it's fun. It takes a lot of

974
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: tracking skills, which I enjoyed doing something yeah, which you're

975
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: probably developed. But I want to make sure you put

976
01:01:58,000 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: this thing. I want to make sure you put this

977
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: thing to bread because I've like, I feel like you

978
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: don't like what I'm saying or getting at When I

979
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: asked about the crying. Oh no, no, um no, I'm

980
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: problem with it. I just um, I just knew that

981
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: was probably where you're going with it. How did you

982
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: know that's what I was going with it, because it's um,

983
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: I knew it was probably expected that a woman would

984
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: be more emotional and no, no, no, not you. But

985
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: if you you fit into a bigger, a bigger pattern.

986
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: Come on, yea, what isatterny carbon into a bigger pattern

987
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: to have before you asked the question or it got

988
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: to your point that you sort of could have just

989
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: pulled a group of people, and then it's sort of

990
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: been like, what's possibly like a question that we'll get

991
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: to you know, shit, really, yeah, here I am. I'm

992
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: not going to sit here and defend myself. You don't

993
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: need to know. It's not just like it wrong. This

994
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: is like this. Here's what how I picture this. This

995
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: is where I get to um, where I get to

996
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: have a conversation with the person I respect, whose opinions

997
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: I respect, and I get to ask them all the

998
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: things that guys wonder about women about hunting. Now I

999
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: was gonna ask this next, I'm gonna ask it now.

1000
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: The reason being, and this is something that you and

1001
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: I have discussed at length. The honest we keep being told, right,

1002
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: but we keep being told in the media and the

1003
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: outdoor media that there is such a thing as the

1004
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 1: female hunter and the female perspective is needed in hunting,

1005
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: and which I agree with wholeheartedly. But Janice is always saying, like,

1006
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: but is it really How do we know that it

1007
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: is that there is such a thing. Maybe it's just hunting. Yeah,

1008
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: and that's and there. And I want to like the

1009
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: second part because there in lies the issue. We're saying

1010
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: that it's no different. It should be no different, we

1011
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: should always treated as equals. But there's a lot of

1012
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 1: people who are very invested in this idea of enhancing, developing,

1013
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: bringing out the female perspective, which they tell us is

1014
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: no different. I'm just staying like, I have my own

1015
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: opinions about this. I'm saying like one might survey the

1016
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: cultural dialogue surrounding women in the outdoors and come to

1017
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: the conclusion that, like, let me make sure I'm getting

1018
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: this right. The female perspective is important, but it's not different.

1019
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: And there's there's tension between those two ideas, but they

1020
01:04:55,200 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: live side by side like friends. I would say to

1021
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 1: that a lot of things, not that I have a

1022
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: problem with anything that you've just said, but I have thought, yeah,

1023
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 1: and I don't I don't know. I'm just feeling like

1024
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,439
Speaker 1: I need to defend the fact that that you felt

1025
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: like you were needing to defend yourself. No, I totally

1026
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: because I agree with you, because I've thought a lot

1027
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: about this obviously. Yeah, I knew you had because even

1028
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: ask that specific question, because and maybe I should have earlier,

1029
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: because I was just wondering, like, how do you spend

1030
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: time like sitting around in the woods when the hunting slow,

1031
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: thinking about this thing that we're now going to get

1032
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 1: Let's say what I damn sure haven't done, because I

1033
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: have never said all in the woods and being like

1034
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: as a man, I feel this right. Yeah, Well, what

1035
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: I've come to is if there is a special female

1036
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: perspective on hunting, I'm not really sure what that would be.

1037
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: I personally don't feel like I have a a special

1038
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 1: perspective on it. I feel like where we should be

1039
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 1: um what people mean when when they say that we

1040
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: should be equal. It doesn't have to do with the perspective,

1041
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 1: but in how women are represented and treated. I understand

1042
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: that's not the mysterious part to me. I would love

1043
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: to hear you talk about it. I completely understand that. Yeah,

1044
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: so I think it's it's I don't know that anybody's

1045
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: trying to say, um, that women have this different perspective

1046
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: and it's important. No, no, yeah, but that that, but

1047
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: that it's the same at the same time. I mean,

1048
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: I think you can bring different things to the table,

1049
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: but where it needs to be equal is how you're

1050
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 1: treated at the table, if that makes any sense, right,

1051
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 1: So I, um, you know, I don't want to be

1052
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,959
Speaker 1: treated in any differently when I'm out there. It would

1053
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: be nice to see equal representation in hunting, you know,

1054
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 1: if if it would be great too go on TV

1055
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: and and see as many women killing it out there

1056
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: and being inspired by that and being inspired, maybe not

1057
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: even consciously, but just seeing women doing that helps you

1058
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 1: to realize you can do it too. Um. And and

1059
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: just by the fact that there aren't as many women

1060
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: out there doing it, and that when people are talking

1061
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: about hunting, it's all talking about men predominantly. Um. It

1062
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 1: just every time kind of reinforces them the stereotype in

1063
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: everybody's brain. Women included that this isn't an activity for us,

1064
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: This isn't something that I could excel at. Can you

1065
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: think of four ORMs of describe for me the ways

1066
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: that you see female hunters represented or how they represent

1067
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: themselves in in media, like like, what are the what

1068
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: are the things that you see? Do you have you

1069
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 1: have categories of representations? Well, I don't watch a whole

1070
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: lot of TV or I don't look like hunting magazines.

1071
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: No I do. I watch a lot of YouTube hunting

1072
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:36,640
Speaker 1: videos and then mostly men. But I, um, there was

1073
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: one I saw lately of a woman just out there

1074
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: hunting by herself, high country mule deer, and she was

1075
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:46,679
Speaker 1: just it was really exciting and cool for me to see,

1076
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: to see that because it was that it was that

1077
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: it happened to be a woman out hunting, but it

1078
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 1: wasn't the point of it exactly. Yeah, And so then

1079
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: you noticed it and it resonated with you. Yep, I

1080
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: noticed it. It resonated with me, and it um yeah,

1081
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: And she was just she was doing it alone and

1082
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: that was neat to see. If you're watching okay, let's

1083
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: let's say watching YouTube videos. If you're watching a YouTube

1084
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 1: video and you and you stumble across the video where

1085
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: the point of the video is to point out that

1086
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 1: here I am a woman out hunting. Does that resonate

1087
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 1: with you or do you not like to see it?

1088
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: Articulated No, I think it's it's great to articulate it

1089
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: because women are underrepresented. If you can, um, you know,

1090
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: bring attention to the few women that are doing it,

1091
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 1: I think that that's great. Yeah, it's the um it's

1092
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,440
Speaker 1: just not seeing it as much and not being exposed

1093
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: to lots of women. It. It's not completely normalized, you know,

1094
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: and so that's why people have have a little double

1095
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 1: take when they see women in the wood. It's because

1096
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 1: it's not normalized. And it's it's back to that self

1097
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: perpetuating thing where it's not normalized for women to be

1098
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: out there. They're not you know, hearing stories about other

1099
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 1: you know, their mom or whatever going out there hunting.

1100
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 1: They're not seeing it on TV. They're walking into you know,

1101
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: hunting stores, and it's getting a lot better. But it

1102
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 1: used to be that the only camo for women was

1103
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: like bikinis and underwear, and so just seeing those little

1104
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: things daily, it just paints a bigger, maybe subconscious picture

1105
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 1: that this this isn't something that women do. Maybe they

1106
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: can't do it as well or whatever. But that to

1107
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 1: talk about camouflage underwear, Okay, there's there's I know what

1108
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: you're talking about, because it's like camouflage, is Fredericks of

1109
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:59,720
Speaker 1: Hollywood still in business? I don't know's that type of

1110
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 1: First Light. You guys at First Light make camouflage men's underwear.

1111
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 1: We make camouflage women's underwear. To why because they are

1112
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: they are a camel line. I'm not gonna go find that.

1113
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: I just want to know because I don't know if

1114
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 1: I was dated when I it's very dated to point

1115
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:24,600
Speaker 1: it out, but I just want to make sure I

1116
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 1: wasn't even so dated that it doesn't exist anymore. When

1117
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: it started out, you know, very small company. I want

1118
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: to interrupt my own and I want to go for it.

1119
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: Hold bear with me for a minute. This. I want

1120
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 1: to get back to this. But I just really need

1121
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 1: to This is a question I've had to. I need

1122
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: to pursue this for a moment. Sorry. So, I mean

1123
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 1: there are and we're at shot show. We'd be right

1124
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: across the way from Remember when we were in the

1125
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:53,560
Speaker 1: corner it shot the booth right across from us with

1126
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: like the sexy camel Yeah, you know, like why do

1127
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 1: we have to be But okay, but when it started

1128
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 1: out for us, uh, you know, very small company and

1129
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 1: we have we would die Marino wool. You know the

1130
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 1: uh what's now a conifer not green black dry earth

1131
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: um and uh fusion right without really knowing what you're

1132
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: gonna make out of it. But you have to at

1133
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,759
Speaker 1: least get to your m o Q, your minimum order quantity,

1134
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 1: just to get the stuff produced. So we got to

1135
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 1: this point where like, well, we gotta make everything in

1136
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 1: everything just to hit our m o Q. And that's

1137
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: how it started. But I was like, why the hell

1138
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 1: are we making camel boxers? The thing is they out

1139
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:52,560
Speaker 1: sold the solid colors. Now who is buying them? Is

1140
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: it a dude buying them or is it? And I

1141
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: always said, you know, it's grandma buying like it likes

1142
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 1: camel needs new underwear exactly. But the thing is itself.

1143
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,680
Speaker 1: So now it's it's there, dude, I had. So I

1144
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: had a pair of your camel boxers on. First off,

1145
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 1: I put him on, and my lovely wife pointed out

1146
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 1: that did not let that go on observed, uncommented on.

1147
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: She had to comment on her surprise, and we had

1148
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 1: a little laugh about it. Then in the middle of night,

1149
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 1: my two year old comes in our room because he

1150
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: is wet, and now that's not doesn't fly with him anymore,

1151
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 1: and he's gonna let someone know. So I hop out

1152
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 1: of bed in my camel boxers and I'm trying to

1153
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: be like because Jimmy and Roles, you're sleeping and mean

1154
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 1: be quiet, and he is screaming, what's that underwear? What's

1155
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 1: that underwear? It struck him like yeah, but we're trying

1156
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 1: there day a little kids, know would be afraid of

1157
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: snakes and spiders. He knew that he had not encountered

1158
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 1: underwear like that in his day, and it really just

1159
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:03,679
Speaker 1: wrong me, Like, you know what, I don't know what

1160
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: is that underwear? So people really do want they want it,

1161
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: and it's everything, but it's boxers. So it's not like

1162
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 1: like I can see a guy dude hiking him too.

1163
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: I can see a guy a guy likes to hunt.

1164
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 1: It's Christmas time and he gets his wife some stuff

1165
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: that she actually wants, and he's like, yeah, I knows,

1166
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 1: for fun, I'm gonna get her some camouflage linger just

1167
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: to have a laugh, right, And so he would buy

1168
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:35,599
Speaker 1: the camouflage later. But that's not who's buying technical Marino

1169
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 1: technical underwear. Yeah, I truly don't. I'm from the dude

1170
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:46,759
Speaker 1: who buys his lady lingerie and camel. Oh just okay?

1171
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: Who has going to both ends of the spectrum and

1172
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 1: articulating here? I don't understand any of it. So yours

1173
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 1: puzzled and and everybody is too. But the thing is

1174
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: it's it's great for me because when I go on

1175
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: a trip, I'm like, yeah, we're the black Ones for

1176
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: five days. Now I can move on with new the

1177
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: camel like I go back to the Black One. Long

1178
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: trips like that, I find myself. Yeah, I'll change my

1179
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 1: said while in I'm like, if you balance the days,

1180
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:23,679
Speaker 1: I should really go back to the dirty pair, because

1181
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 1: I got four on knows and six on these. Jump

1182
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: back to my dirty put it? What? Um? Can I

1183
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 1: see your underwhere? Real? Quickly? We'll call you running? I

1184
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 1: don't know. I think gray, solid gray, not a real

1185
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:45,599
Speaker 1: tree blue? You have like a fish cut? Oh yeah,

1186
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:53,719
Speaker 1: there's fish and deer on there? All right? Where were we? No? Okay? Um,

1187
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 1: I'm glad you stopped and we didn't go all the

1188
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 1: way around the horn on cal Do you got fair

1189
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 1: of camels? Then? I know? On firmost basement, so freeze.

1190
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry? How did what came up that I that

1191
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 1: I needed to well, uh, the camel section in some

1192
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 1: of these big walking into a camel section. But do

1193
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:24,799
Speaker 1: you really there were no female Yeah, I'm sorry. Karmon's

1194
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 1: point was there were no female hunting clothing hunting clothing.

1195
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: But would that actually bother you? Well? Yeah, what reasons?

1196
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 1: Why did that bother you? Well, first of all because

1197
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: of what it symbolized or because it was impractical, both

1198
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 1: both because it was just you know, going and be like, really,

1199
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: this is all there is is bikinis. There's nothing here

1200
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 1: for me. The store that had men's hunting apparel and

1201
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 1: then women's bikinis exactly, there might be a couple of

1202
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 1: items for women, but pretty you know, it was maybe

1203
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 1: a rack and then a rack of like camera underwear

1204
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: and stuff for women and be targeted towards the men

1205
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: shopping in the store. Right, Yeah, I actually might now

1206
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:17,760
Speaker 1: that I think about it, I think I'm buying my

1207
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: wife as seat of these for this Christmas. Let me know, no,

1208
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:26,680
Speaker 1: I mean the other call the bikini, not the kind

1209
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: you guys have. Ok let me practical set um yeah,

1210
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 1: just you know, just too it's free country yep um. Okay,

1211
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 1: So it bugged you because of what it symbolized in

1212
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 1: did you look at it and think this? Did you

1213
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 1: ever look at and go well, I guess it makes

1214
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 1: sense because because a lot of companies don't make left

1215
01:17:54,840 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 1: handed stuff, and that's a higher percent the high percentage

1216
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 1: of the American population is left handed than the female

1217
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:12,680
Speaker 1: percentage of license hunters. I get that the frustrating. I

1218
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 1: feel burned when a company is not making a left

1219
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 1: handed product. That's tough, But I don't feel burned by

1220
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 1: what it all means, right well, because right yeah, because

1221
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: they've got nothing. Please, I'm not equating being left handed

1222
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 1: being ye yeah so um but yeah. But it's still

1223
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:32,679
Speaker 1: frustrating because part of that is that's that feedback thing

1224
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 1: where when all signs are pointing towards women don't hunt

1225
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 1: and not encouraging women to hunt, there's not going to

1226
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:45,639
Speaker 1: be women hunting, or not many women hunting, So there's

1227
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 1: not going to be many clothes sold for women, so

1228
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 1: there's not going to be many women hunting, and on

1229
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 1: and on. So do you think that a woman would

1230
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 1: actually not because I see this mentioned though, then that

1231
01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 1: that's a barrier to entry. I have a hard time

1232
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 1: picture that there's in the history of this country has

1233
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: been a woman who is like, uh, man, I would

1234
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:13,200
Speaker 1: love to go hunting, but I just can't because there's

1235
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 1: not specific female hunting close. There's no way that's happened.

1236
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 1: No, no no, no, yeah, but it's it's it's stacking all

1237
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 1: of these little signs up together. That's, hey, we don't

1238
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 1: want you here. Yes, I believe in that part. I

1239
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 1: believe in the the accumulation of these little girls allowed

1240
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 1: exactly accumulation of unwritten notices for women's entire lives. And

1241
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,720
Speaker 1: it's not just women don't hunt. It's little cues their

1242
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:49,879
Speaker 1: entire lives from when their baby's on too, be careful,

1243
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:55,719
Speaker 1: don't take risks, um, don't be outside alone. It's kind

1244
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:58,759
Speaker 1: of it's more than just don't hunt. It's it's a

1245
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 1: stack of cues that we're getting our whole lives. Are

1246
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:05,800
Speaker 1: you getting it from your family you personally? Um? No,

1247
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 1: I mean my my um. My parents are very adventurous

1248
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 1: and always encouraged us to do whatever we wanted. My

1249
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 1: sister and I, Um, you haven't felt it like that

1250
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:22,839
Speaker 1: disapproval from your father? No? No, no, no no, no no

1251
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 1: no no. My dad's a botanist, and so I grew

1252
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 1: up out in the woods with him all the time.

1253
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: Um My mom, they you know, took us backpacking and

1254
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 1: everything else. And my mom, um, my mom is an artist.

1255
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 1: Um her main medium is cow intestines and yeah, or pig.

1256
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 1: Um what is she doing with these intestines? So it's

1257
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 1: or fish skins or lots of different sort of um,

1258
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:02,040
Speaker 1: organic media materials. And it's so it's not like creepy

1259
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 1: or creep vibe at all. Yeah, No, it's actually really beautiful.

1260
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 1: She does sculpture stuff and it's um. She takes the

1261
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 1: gut and and um slices it up so that it

1262
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 1: lays flat and dries it either around a form or

1263
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:22,680
Speaker 1: dries it flat and then and that's her medium. Like

1264
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, paper would be or something.

1265
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:28,559
Speaker 1: So she might stretch it around a frame of sticks

1266
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 1: that are made into a boat or um, make it

1267
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 1: into like a book, all sorts of things. What's the

1268
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:42,519
Speaker 1: UK what's the word? You know? The Walter skin. Yeah,

1269
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 1: that was part of the inspiration for for those boats

1270
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:50,679
Speaker 1: that she didn't think. Yeah slightly translucent, yeah exactly, Yeah,

1271
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: you can you can see light through it. So anyway

1272
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,639
Speaker 1: I grew up, I'm just yeah, So she's not exactly

1273
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:01,599
Speaker 1: a stereotypical to her on next time, she's great, yeah,

1274
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 1: I'll throw out a chunk of gut. So I grew

1275
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 1: up in a house where you open a yogurt container

1276
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 1: in the fridge and it might not be yogurt, might

1277
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:15,280
Speaker 1: be a little scraps of meat scrap, It could be gut,

1278
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 1: it could be or whatever. I mean. She also she

1279
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:21,880
Speaker 1: was actually, uh went to Humblet stay tuned. She worked

1280
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: in their vertebrate museum and skinning and stuffy animals and

1281
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 1: so so she wasn't gonna tell you. So she's not

1282
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:30,719
Speaker 1: going to tell you that girls shouldn't be out cutting

1283
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,559
Speaker 1: stuff up right exactly? Yea. All right, so you had

1284
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:36,919
Speaker 1: a you had a I want to say, a typical

1285
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, so it was. It was a science

1286
01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:47,599
Speaker 1: biology focused family, you know. Um yeah, No. The next

1287
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 1: thing I want to ask you about what when you

1288
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,519
Speaker 1: see Okay, now, because around the subject of apparel and gear.

1289
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:59,960
Speaker 1: All right, Um, when you go into a sporting goods

1290
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 1: store and they now have a full line of female apparel,

1291
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,840
Speaker 1: but it's all got a bunch of pink stuff on it,

1292
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 1: are you thinking, thank God? Or are you like man?

1293
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 1: Do they overcorrect or is it some other kind of

1294
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:18,240
Speaker 1: like I don't really know what to make of this.

1295
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be one of those choices. But

1296
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: you get what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, the pink stuff,

1297
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:31,879
Speaker 1: I mean to me, it's um is it actually technically

1298
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: good gear? Does it work? I think that um, it

1299
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 1: kind of gets back to that where women in the

1300
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:42,879
Speaker 1: field and that special but we want to be equal.

1301
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: If um, I think that I'm a quite feminine person

1302
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna all of a sudden feel comfortable

1303
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 1: wearing UM. I mean, I'm not gonna wear like really

1304
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 1: man macho clothes just to fit in. I'm gonna wear

1305
01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 1: what I feel comfortable with when I when I work

1306
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:15,040
Speaker 1: with in the field, which is most days. I mean,

1307
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 1: I'm not dressing in any sort of macho way or anything.

1308
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:23,479
Speaker 1: I'm wearing what I what I feel comfortable in. And

1309
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: so if women feel more comfortable and clothes that have

1310
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:30,639
Speaker 1: a little bit of a feminine flair, um, I don't

1311
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,879
Speaker 1: personally have any being cameled, but if that's what feels comfortable,

1312
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, I don't need it doesn't make you

1313
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: nauseous to see it? No, I mean, if it it

1314
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:44,439
Speaker 1: my to my I look ridiculous, But I don't. Whatever

1315
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: anybody wants to wear, if it works and it's comfortable

1316
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: and it's practical, yeah I don't. I think you can

1317
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 1: be feminine and be a badass in the field at

1318
01:24:55,000 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 1: the same time. Last year, Wisconsin and maybe some other states, Johnny,

1319
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 1: you might know the answer to this. Yeah. I think

1320
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:06,800
Speaker 1: a few others I don't know who pass some legislation. Montana,

1321
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 1: did they pass some legislation? I know what happened in Wisconsin.

1322
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:13,559
Speaker 1: It is one of the rare things where the all

1323
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: the politicians Wisconsin could all agree on this, and it

1324
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:18,920
Speaker 1: was like a quick together and it's a quick, easy

1325
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: thing to decide that. Um, the reason women are out

1326
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 1: hunting is because they just don't like blaze orange. If

1327
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,000
Speaker 1: you allow them to wear a blaze pink, they would

1328
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 1: flock to the woods. So once this problem was identified,

1329
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 1: they quickly got in and pulled together and and legalized

1330
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 1: blaze pink. Like, when you hear about a rule like that,

1331
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:51,680
Speaker 1: what do you When I tell you? That, what do you?

1332
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 1: What jumps to your mind that that's really ignorant and ridiculous.

1333
01:25:57,080 --> 01:26:00,080
Speaker 1: That's not the problem. Yeah, he only has the problem No,

1334
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:04,120
Speaker 1: absolutely not. I mean maybe you could make it into

1335
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:09,040
Speaker 1: the problem sort of symbolically, like, um, we need to

1336
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 1: make the hunting the image of hunting. Um says no

1337
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:22,200
Speaker 1: girls aloud and saying welcome. Yeah, but I don't know.

1338
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:24,760
Speaker 1: Here's the problem I had with it. Half with it.

1339
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,599
Speaker 1: I don't think of blaze orange as being like a

1340
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 1: man color. If you, to be legal, had to wear

1341
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 1: a face mask with a mustache painted on it, okay

1342
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:37,360
Speaker 1: and one, And that was just how it always was.

1343
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 1: So anytime a woman wants to go out in the field,

1344
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:42,360
Speaker 1: she has to have a mask with a mustache. And

1345
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 1: later states like, man, I just feel like the mustaches

1346
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 1: are a bit much for the female hunters. Let's pass

1347
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:50,760
Speaker 1: a law saying you can wear a mask with no mustache.

1348
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:55,160
Speaker 1: I'd be like, yeah, that's a that's a great idea.

1349
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:59,160
Speaker 1: I agree with this new no mustache law because a mustache,

1350
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: when I see it, exceptions aside, screams man to me.

1351
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 1: But I don't think of blaze orange is being gender specific. Yeah.

1352
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 1: I don't either. I think that that was kind of a, um,

1353
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:18,640
Speaker 1: not great idea they had. Yeah, I would really be

1354
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:24,120
Speaker 1: surprised if that changed anything drastically Okay, there's no scientific data,

1355
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:29,200
Speaker 1: polling data whatsoever to back that thing up. No women

1356
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 1: were like, oh, bro, I'm dying to hunt. Ain't doing

1357
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 1: it in blaze or no, Nope, not for me. I

1358
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 1: mean very quickly when and I mean I've seen this.

1359
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: And that's why this law was very irksome to me.

1360
01:27:41,479 --> 01:27:44,599
Speaker 1: I wrote a few letters on it. Um, what law

1361
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,760
Speaker 1: the pink? Yes, you got you wrote letters about it.

1362
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 1: I didn't care that much. It's just an email these days,

1363
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 1: I got a lot of email addressed a long while. Um.

1364
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:00,760
Speaker 1: But so we put together a women's line. We had

1365
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:05,080
Speaker 1: a panel of fifty women from young to old. Uh,

1366
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 1: skinned wide, all across the spectrum of um of skill

1367
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 1: level or days in the woods, I guess. Uh. And

1368
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 1: that's how we developed our line. And then and we

1369
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:21,880
Speaker 1: decided that we were gonna have any pink gun anything, right.

1370
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:27,599
Speaker 1: And when we launched it industry facing at shot show

1371
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:31,879
Speaker 1: and we're showing it two buyers for all these stores

1372
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:38,000
Speaker 1: who are overwhelmingly male. Very often we would get, hey,

1373
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 1: this is really nice, but you know what you should do.

1374
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:45,280
Speaker 1: Put a little pink on there. This is for you.

1375
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:48,640
Speaker 1: And they'd be like, huh, a little insider info for

1376
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 1: you guys, helping you out, you boys, and idahol might

1377
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 1: not be aware. And this, yeah, the blaze pink laut

1378
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 1: it is the same thing. It's a bunch of dudes

1379
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: being like, all right, what they want. And that's what

1380
01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 1: is irksome about the pink is that it that that

1381
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 1: is their idea of what women are going to want

1382
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:17,080
Speaker 1: or what it makes them comfortable or something. I mean,

1383
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:23,479
Speaker 1: if it is, that's great, but um, it feels a

1384
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:27,000
Speaker 1: little bit frivolous to think that that's what's you know,

1385
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 1: that was the problem. I just don't like little things

1386
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: like that, tying down valuable time when any form of

1387
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:42,640
Speaker 1: government is in sessions. Yeah, there's a few other things there.

1388
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 1: They want to go with some slam dunks now, and yeah,

1389
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:49,760
Speaker 1: they definitely do. And you know, Wisconsin. I always love

1390
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 1: Wisconsin because they went from having a case law where

1391
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:54,960
Speaker 1: you had to have your gun in a case to

1392
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 1: be in a no case state. Now you just put

1393
01:29:58,360 --> 01:29:59,679
Speaker 1: your gn the bad you don't gonna have a case.

1394
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 1: So the place has my you know, undying affection. So

1395
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 1: they know all the slam dunkers that they get through.

1396
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 1: I'm behind some of them. Yeahy are you typing down

1397
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 1: thoughts that you'd like to ask Karmen? I was reading

1398
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 1: up on how the blaze pink thing got started and

1399
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:22,479
Speaker 1: just seeing where like the genesis of it was all right, Karmen,

1400
01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 1: Now is there anything now that we've had uh, and

1401
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:34,120
Speaker 1: we're the guys here might have more? I've asked a

1402
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:36,679
Speaker 1: lot pretty much all of my ask a woman questions.

1403
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:40,160
Speaker 1: Do you have questions that you've ever wished you could

1404
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 1: ask of a guy about these subjects? Mm hmm? And

1405
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 1: it could be like it, could you keep mind you're

1406
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,080
Speaker 1: not gonna insult me. You could ask a question that

1407
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 1: that betrayed a you know, that might betray some level

1408
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 1: of ex aspiration with the way guys look at things whatever,

1409
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 1: Like I won't take offense, But is there ever do

1410
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:10,680
Speaker 1: you have any like burning questions about why do you

1411
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 1: guys always have to blink? I think I would, I mean,

1412
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:18,200
Speaker 1: I I think I know the answer, but I would

1413
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 1: ask men to think twice before they maybe even just

1414
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:28,880
Speaker 1: sort of subconsciously are if they're in a situation with

1415
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 1: a woman outside um telling her to be careful or

1416
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, to me be more encouraging of actually

1417
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:44,679
Speaker 1: taking risks and putting herself out there and you don't

1418
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:50,280
Speaker 1: like the protector stands. I mean no, not beyond what

1419
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:53,200
Speaker 1: anybody would you know, watch their buddies back out there.

1420
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 1: Um yeah, well it's like the pocket knife thing. I

1421
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 1: don't need somebody to tell me to be careful with it.

1422
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 1: And I or, um, you know, I used to go

1423
01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm a runner, and I worked in the South for

1424
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: a while, and for whatever reason, this happened even more there.

1425
01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:14,719
Speaker 1: But I'd be running at night often and men would

1426
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:19,559
Speaker 1: constantly stop and you know, asked me if I needed

1427
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:26,040
Speaker 1: a ride, and wasn't I scared of bears exactly exactly,

1428
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:28,120
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, no, I'm not scared of bears.

1429
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 1: And in my head, I'm thinking, but when people slow

1430
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:35,200
Speaker 1: down and stop like this, this is what yeah, yeah,

1431
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm getting kind of yeah. So um, I think it's

1432
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 1: it's not even conscious for a lot of people, but

1433
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:49,840
Speaker 1: this sort of just protective. It's not even that it's

1434
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:55,360
Speaker 1: worry that's palpable from men. I'd rather just be assumed

1435
01:32:55,439 --> 01:32:58,760
Speaker 1: that I got this. I'll ask for help if I

1436
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:00,760
Speaker 1: need it. We kind of covered this early, but I

1437
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 1: just want to help a check on something. Do you

1438
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 1: feel that when a guy does that thing the little lady,

1439
01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:09,200
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, it's dangerous are here. Do

1440
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:12,040
Speaker 1: you feel that it's a that it's coming from an

1441
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:15,720
Speaker 1: honest place normally, or do you feel that it is

1442
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:19,240
Speaker 1: a way of that it is a way of like

1443
01:33:19,320 --> 01:33:23,280
Speaker 1: asserting a sort of dominance. Is a little bit strong award,

1444
01:33:24,360 --> 01:33:28,000
Speaker 1: but it's a way of like letting you know how

1445
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:32,040
Speaker 1: he feels about what he's seeing. Or do you think

1446
01:33:32,040 --> 01:33:35,640
Speaker 1: it's like he's honestly concerned about my well being? I

1447
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:41,440
Speaker 1: think that it's usually from that place of honestly being concerned,

1448
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: but it's it's it um is coming from that's it's

1449
01:33:46,040 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: coming from a naive place um, and it comes off

1450
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:58,440
Speaker 1: as sort of patronizing. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Every conversation

1451
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 1: I have on the trail with an anybody ends with

1452
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 1: have fun, be safe. Yeah kind of be safe. That's

1453
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:09,600
Speaker 1: like see you later. Yeah yeah, but I say it

1454
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 1: to everybody day. We're a tricker treating we trick or

1455
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 1: treated the fire barn. As I walked off, I was like,

1456
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 1: thanks a lot of guys, be safe, man. Now, I

1457
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:21,680
Speaker 1: don't think those guys like that guy really patronized us.

1458
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 1: It's just it's like a sign off. You're telling me

1459
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:28,400
Speaker 1: all these kids can't be sweat like when I when

1460
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:30,040
Speaker 1: I like my body is taken off, I give him

1461
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:32,360
Speaker 1: the finger. It's just like I'm just saying, you know,

1462
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:39,599
Speaker 1: be safe. You're saying, what's up? See you? And that's

1463
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, I totally give what you're saying,

1464
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:44,880
Speaker 1: and I say, you know, I tell people to drive safe,

1465
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 1: be safe whatever, all the all the time. So it's

1466
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:50,720
Speaker 1: not that's why these things are. It's hard to describe

1467
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:53,840
Speaker 1: and hard to talk about because I couldn't probably point

1468
01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:56,800
Speaker 1: to every single instance and be like he was being

1469
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,439
Speaker 1: really I mean, sometimes it's blatant. You can tell that

1470
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 1: they're talking down to you or patronizing it. But I

1471
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:10,479
Speaker 1: couldn't um tell you the motivation between behind every one

1472
01:35:10,479 --> 01:35:12,679
Speaker 1: of these events. But as when it's your whole life

1473
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:16,680
Speaker 1: and it's it's a pattern, um and it's just they're

1474
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:20,600
Speaker 1: they're just slight things that um you might even be

1475
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:24,640
Speaker 1: questioning like what what did you mean by that? But

1476
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: it's it's um hard, it's it's hard to maybe put

1477
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:33,720
Speaker 1: your finger on what the motivation was because there are

1478
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:36,000
Speaker 1: so many people who are just you know, be safe

1479
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 1: out there or whatever, And it's totally coming from a

1480
01:35:39,320 --> 01:35:42,960
Speaker 1: good place. But it's the it's the pattern of it.

1481
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:45,800
Speaker 1: It's a it's stacking up over living and growing up

1482
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:51,000
Speaker 1: and around old men and hunting camps. You're like, very

1483
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:56,040
Speaker 1: real and happening all the time. There's a word. It's

1484
01:35:56,080 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 1: not new. Um, it's kind of coming into its own

1485
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:03,519
Speaker 1: now where you'll see it like all the time. Uh.

1486
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:06,840
Speaker 1: Like the word man splaining you're familiar with, does that

1487
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,639
Speaker 1: bug you? Man's plaining for people who don't man's plaining

1488
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:14,400
Speaker 1: is there's this idea that men explain things to women

1489
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:17,960
Speaker 1: differently than they explain things to men, where they explain

1490
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:21,880
Speaker 1: things as though they were talking to a dumb child, yeah,

1491
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 1: or just as assuming even that just that it needs

1492
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:28,160
Speaker 1: to be explained, little lady, let me tell you the

1493
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 1: r the dose and that. Yeah, I'm I've just learned

1494
01:36:33,960 --> 01:36:37,599
Speaker 1: that word this summer. Um. And funnily enough, a woman

1495
01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:41,679
Speaker 1: was describing it to me and then a man splained

1496
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 1: man splaining to me right there. Um, But it is

1497
01:36:47,160 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 1: a good word to describe something had a man's plain

1498
01:36:53,439 --> 01:36:59,759
Speaker 1: man splaining Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, that's bother some. For example,

1499
01:36:59,800 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 1: this just a couple of weeks ago, my mom and

1500
01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:04,280
Speaker 1: I were out hiking and ran into somebody coming down

1501
01:37:04,360 --> 01:37:07,320
Speaker 1: the trail and he stops and we're chatting, and I

1502
01:37:07,360 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 1: interrupted him to because there's a peregrine falcon and I

1503
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:14,000
Speaker 1: was pointing. I said, oh, look, peregrine falcon whatever, and

1504
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:21,400
Speaker 1: he says, Nope, that's actually a h Harris hawk um

1505
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 1: and starts describing to me that I've misidentified it. And

1506
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 1: he starts telling me about this hawk and he was

1507
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:33,600
Speaker 1: totally wrong. It was a falcon and I but you know,

1508
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:35,400
Speaker 1: I didn't want to get into it, so I just

1509
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:37,600
Speaker 1: let him man splain it to me. But both my

1510
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:43,080
Speaker 1: mom and I, she's a great birder, just internally rolling no.

1511
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:46,160
Speaker 1: And he started to get into well, they used to

1512
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:49,639
Speaker 1: be called uh, and he started to say swamp hawks,

1513
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:52,679
Speaker 1: which is not correct. It's marsh hawks. And I sort

1514
01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 1: of corrected him there, but he didn't didn't even catch

1515
01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:58,000
Speaker 1: on that maybe I knew something about what I was

1516
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,800
Speaker 1: talking about, and he continued to So you guys were

1517
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:06,920
Speaker 1: having a little know how showdown. Yeah, I mean, I

1518
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 1: basically just let him go on about it, let him

1519
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:12,840
Speaker 1: be a guy. Yeah, but my mom and I definitely

1520
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:17,240
Speaker 1: afterwards were just like, yeah, so the you and your mouth,

1521
01:38:17,280 --> 01:38:19,240
Speaker 1: you and your mom, it was enough union mouth. Then

1522
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:21,240
Speaker 1: later oh yeah, we talked about it later. It was

1523
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:28,400
Speaker 1: so blatant and he was so wrong. We were there there.

1524
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:32,599
Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking example, I'm talking about a woman

1525
01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:38,639
Speaker 1: in the wood. Yeah, yep, yeah, that's the experience. Can't

1526
01:38:38,640 --> 01:38:46,439
Speaker 1: be Yeah, yeah, So I think we don't know if

1527
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:47,920
Speaker 1: we covered it or not. We kind of you kind

1528
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:49,840
Speaker 1: of said I like when you said, like, you know,

1529
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 1: we bring it, might bring different things to the table.

1530
01:38:52,240 --> 01:38:54,360
Speaker 1: We're gonna be treated equal at the table. So you've

1531
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 1: had like a lot of honey experiences now with guys

1532
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:02,720
Speaker 1: and as a female if you much with other females. Nope, no,

1533
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:06,640
Speaker 1: But like, so do you do you feel like is

1534
01:39:06,680 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: there a different experience to be had there? I? Um,

1535
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:16,000
Speaker 1: I mean I certainly cannot speak for all women, and

1536
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 1: I um, if there is, I haven't identified it, or

1537
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:25,480
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I in particular bring something special

1538
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:28,960
Speaker 1: as a woman. I think, yeah, none of it has

1539
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 1: to be special, but just not blessing that you're not

1540
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:35,240
Speaker 1: blessing the woods with your presence special or like changing

1541
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:38,600
Speaker 1: hunting in in any way with some fresh female perspectives

1542
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:40,880
Speaker 1: that the deer you shoot feel better about having been

1543
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 1: shot by a woman. No, I don't think they give

1544
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:46,559
Speaker 1: a gentle hand. Sure glad it was lady that blew

1545
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:58,479
Speaker 1: ahold through my side Jesus hot and cold. That was

1546
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:00,880
Speaker 1: like my big takeaway when I sat around chatting with

1547
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:05,719
Speaker 1: the gals from the office, Brittany and Nicole and Annie.

1548
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 1: I don't know who else is there that time, but

1549
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 1: it's sort of like we went through like their year

1550
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:13,080
Speaker 1: of hunting that fall and were kind of having the

1551
01:40:13,120 --> 01:40:15,920
Speaker 1: same conversation. In the end, I was like, yeah, it

1552
01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:17,840
Speaker 1: kind of sounds like you just had all a bunch

1553
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 1: of like beginner like hunting stories this year, you know.

1554
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:29,400
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, cool, thank you. Yeah. I mean maybe

1555
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:31,840
Speaker 1: there will be some women out there that do bring

1556
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:34,639
Speaker 1: a special feminine perspective, and I'm look forward to hearing

1557
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:37,040
Speaker 1: what that is. But I don't feel like, yeah, I

1558
01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:39,439
Speaker 1: just don't. You're not hostile to it. No, I'm not

1559
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: hostile to it. Okay, I forgot one thing I forgot

1560
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:45,600
Speaker 1: that asked we started out so you know, have go

1561
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:48,120
Speaker 1: in great detail. This year was a shitty hunting yeard

1562
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: or no, No, it was great something, Yeah, I did. Yeah.

1563
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:54,320
Speaker 1: So this year I shot a buck all by myself,

1564
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 1: UM alone on the mountain for the first time, which

1565
01:40:57,040 --> 01:41:01,240
Speaker 1: was that felt really good working. Uh No, he was

1566
01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:03,720
Speaker 1: packing for our trip to Idaho because we went, so

1567
01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:10,160
Speaker 1: we did. So this year's story was we did um

1568
01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:13,400
Speaker 1: the high hunt. So in Washington there's in September there's

1569
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:18,240
Speaker 1: a week long high hunt UM and that was really

1570
01:41:18,280 --> 01:41:21,320
Speaker 1: it was a really fun year. It was hard because

1571
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:27,080
Speaker 1: we were having a UM huge wild fire. It ended

1572
01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:31,479
Speaker 1: up burning two d seventy thousand acres, mostly in the

1573
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 1: Satan Wilderness, which is our big wilderness area to UM

1574
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:36,920
Speaker 1: to hunt for the high hunt. That's where we've hunted before.

1575
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 1: Can you explain high hunt? So that's it's in certain

1576
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:45,680
Speaker 1: only in certain wilderness areas. Wilderness areas tend to be

1577
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:49,559
Speaker 1: the highest nasty portions of the fort. Yeah, there might

1578
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:53,840
Speaker 1: even be an elevation requirement of like you guys talk

1579
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:58,080
Speaker 1: about Colorado, it has to be above in the rags

1580
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:02,560
Speaker 1: called the high huntin I think they call yeah, yeah,

1581
01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:04,800
Speaker 1: and right, But have you ever heard like, like what's

1582
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:07,240
Speaker 1: that Colorado hunt where they you cannot hunt below ten

1583
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: there's like an early season mule deer wilderness tag and

1584
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 1: it's for ten thou feet and but I think I

1585
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:15,240
Speaker 1: could be wrong, but I feel like these do they

1586
01:42:15,280 --> 01:42:17,719
Speaker 1: say that, It just say wilderness are is what happened

1587
01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:21,800
Speaker 1: to be real high I I don't remember. I don't know.

1588
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:24,920
Speaker 1: I think, well, in our area, yes, we're fine in

1589
01:42:24,960 --> 01:42:27,479
Speaker 1: all of our all of our wilderness areas where you

1590
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:29,320
Speaker 1: can hunt, but I don't know about other areas in

1591
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 1: the state if there's an elevation thing. Um. But anyway,

1592
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:34,559
Speaker 1: so we kind of had to be on our toes.

1593
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 1: So we ended up um hiking into areas that we've

1594
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:41,719
Speaker 1: never been in hunting and UM, we had a blast.

1595
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:44,840
Speaker 1: It was it was awesome, but neither of us had

1596
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:48,439
Speaker 1: the stars a line to get a buck. Yeah, yep,

1597
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 1: we saw bucks. Let's see we went. We actually ended

1598
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:55,759
Speaker 1: up backpacking into three different spots. Um. In the first spot,

1599
01:42:55,800 --> 01:42:59,800
Speaker 1: I think we saw four And why couldn't you get

1600
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:02,479
Speaker 1: one because you're seen them way off? The first we

1601
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:05,200
Speaker 1: saw a little um there was a little group the

1602
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:09,000
Speaker 1: night before opening and they were way off. Went up

1603
01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 1: to where they were for the opening day of the

1604
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:15,599
Speaker 1: high hunt and UM ended up jumping one buck and

1605
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:18,280
Speaker 1: and didn't see any other that day, and then I

1606
01:43:18,320 --> 01:43:21,439
Speaker 1: saw another one that trip uh just for a second

1607
01:43:21,479 --> 01:43:26,080
Speaker 1: and it disappeared into into the trees. Nope, we didn't

1608
01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:28,200
Speaker 1: see any other hunters. That's That's one of the really

1609
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:30,120
Speaker 1: great things about the High Hunt is there's a lot

1610
01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:35,000
Speaker 1: of people coming in hunt in the Okanagan in Okanagan County. Um,

1611
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:38,360
Speaker 1: because it's great. There's a big you only heard there,

1612
01:43:38,400 --> 01:43:41,080
Speaker 1: but you have to work to get away from people. Um.

1613
01:43:41,080 --> 01:43:47,320
Speaker 1: But the High Hunt kind of does that for so. UM,

1614
01:43:47,479 --> 01:43:49,960
Speaker 1: then you guys are gonna go hunt Idaho. And he's like,

1615
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:52,920
Speaker 1: I'll pack you hunt. Yeah, so well, so that so

1616
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:55,360
Speaker 1: we did the High Hunt. We hunt it really hard,

1617
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:57,240
Speaker 1: had a great time, didn't get any deer, so then

1618
01:43:57,280 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 1: we both could still hunt during general because if you

1619
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:02,200
Speaker 1: get something there the high Hunt, you can't hunt during

1620
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:06,080
Speaker 1: general General. We backpacked in pretty much did another high

1621
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:11,960
Speaker 1: hunt um, and my husband got a deer and um,

1622
01:44:12,040 --> 01:44:14,599
Speaker 1: so that was really fun. And then we we came

1623
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:17,720
Speaker 1: back from from that particular trip and had a couple

1624
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:20,760
Speaker 1: of days before we left for our Idaho trip and

1625
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 1: so um, I wanted to just hunt to the bitter end,

1626
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:28,599
Speaker 1: so he had to pack and I just went off

1627
01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:32,040
Speaker 1: hunting by myself. Just behind our house there's a bunch

1628
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 1: of state land and UM found a little buck and

1629
01:44:36,720 --> 01:44:40,280
Speaker 1: uh and I I stared at it and I had

1630
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:42,320
Speaker 1: so now I was in that position again of here's

1631
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 1: the last couple moments where you're my mind was racing

1632
01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:52,519
Speaker 1: and having all these doubts, and I just uh finally

1633
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:56,400
Speaker 1: told myself that I'm I'm gonna have these doubts every

1634
01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:59,800
Speaker 1: single time. I just need to pull my socks up.

1635
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:02,640
Speaker 1: And and I knew that I had it, you know,

1636
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,120
Speaker 1: part of my brain. I just needed to shut those

1637
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:09,720
Speaker 1: doubts down and and I did it and I got it.

1638
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:14,120
Speaker 1: So so that felt good. I felt like a hurdle

1639
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:17,439
Speaker 1: I finally cleared. So do you're all by yourself? Yea

1640
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:21,599
Speaker 1: may having doing getting through those those final moments by

1641
01:45:21,600 --> 01:45:26,080
Speaker 1: my by myself with yeah, without somebody you know saying

1642
01:45:26,080 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 1: you're good, go for it. So yeah, so we got

1643
01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:33,560
Speaker 1: so I got that deer. And then next day we

1644
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:38,599
Speaker 1: left for Idaho and UM and that was an incredible trip,

1645
01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:43,360
Speaker 1: really worked really hard. Um I only had an elk

1646
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:47,839
Speaker 1: tag and my um husband had an elk and a deer,

1647
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:49,519
Speaker 1: and my brother in law did as well, and they

1648
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:53,599
Speaker 1: both got nice mule deer, and um, we never caught

1649
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:55,360
Speaker 1: up with the elk, but we we learned a lot

1650
01:45:55,360 --> 01:45:58,120
Speaker 1: about the area and I had a blast though. So

1651
01:45:58,160 --> 01:46:00,880
Speaker 1: that was a really cool trip too. Yeah, oh yeah,

1652
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:02,320
Speaker 1: And he presented it to me like it was some

1653
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:05,720
Speaker 1: kind of disaster. Oh no, not a disaster at all.

1654
01:46:05,760 --> 01:46:09,479
Speaker 1: I mean we worked really hard, you know, maybe that's

1655
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:13,000
Speaker 1: the part he caught us arduous. Yeah, we were hiking

1656
01:46:13,240 --> 01:46:16,719
Speaker 1: in you know, I think our first camp was thirteen

1657
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:20,320
Speaker 1: miles and in and we stay there and hunted hard.

1658
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:24,720
Speaker 1: And it's I mean it's rugged country and uh in

1659
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:30,760
Speaker 1: the Cascades. So but yeah, what time do you hit

1660
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:36,320
Speaker 1: that hit Idaho? Uh? Last week of October? Yeah, yeah,

1661
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:40,000
Speaker 1: And it was for me coming from Washington going there.

1662
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:43,040
Speaker 1: The number of deer that we were seeing it was

1663
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:48,559
Speaker 1: insane and some big wide open, some big wide open. Yeah,

1664
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:51,400
Speaker 1: and just it was so cool to be seeing that

1665
01:46:51,479 --> 01:46:54,559
Speaker 1: many bucks every day. And it felt like compared to

1666
01:46:55,040 --> 01:47:00,760
Speaker 1: our bucks that I'll tell you what, if I was

1667
01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:04,639
Speaker 1: playing are all out of whack. I haven't heard enough

1668
01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:07,439
Speaker 1: where I know. If I was playing the Hunting Trip,

1669
01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:14,240
Speaker 1: I would be headed to screw Colorado. Just unbelievable. Amounts

1670
01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:18,400
Speaker 1: of bucks everywhere. You look like you trust Carmon because

1671
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:22,520
Speaker 1: she's a woman. He was talking about Colorado. They're forecast

1672
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:29,080
Speaker 1: to know about the gentler sets that they do not. Okay,

1673
01:47:29,120 --> 01:47:33,760
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is this is everywhere. Any comparison

1674
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:42,880
Speaker 1: in comparison. So yeah, in comparison. Can't trust these women.

1675
01:47:44,720 --> 01:47:49,040
Speaker 1: Everybody knows that can't. I'll be careful out there. There's

1676
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:51,240
Speaker 1: a lot of big bucks out there. It could hurt you.

1677
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:53,679
Speaker 1: What are you doing with that pocket knife? I shouldn't

1678
01:47:53,720 --> 01:48:00,240
Speaker 1: have that. Who gave that to you? Um? So it's

1679
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 1: all the grays. You guys are eating all kinds of

1680
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:05,760
Speaker 1: deer meat. Yeah, a lot of dear meat. You guys

1681
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:08,479
Speaker 1: eat muliar. Then you guys are eating mule deer, right.

1682
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 1: Mostly guys like the flavor. I mean it is so

1683
01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:16,680
Speaker 1: that first buck that I got was a buck. I mean,

1684
01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:19,400
Speaker 1: as I was walking up to it, I could smell

1685
01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:22,280
Speaker 1: that that goaty smell that was that was a strong one.

1686
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:26,240
Speaker 1: But it wasn't. Oh yeah, the whole thing tasted goaty.

1687
01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:30,080
Speaker 1: Did Yeah, I did, what do you call it? Goadie

1688
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:33,519
Speaker 1: like kind of a barnyardy sort of Yeah, And that

1689
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:39,519
Speaker 1: year it was ruddy from a Yeah that year, Yeah, yep.

1690
01:48:41,400 --> 01:48:43,360
Speaker 1: You could smell it as it was cooking, as I

1691
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 1: was cooking. Yeah, yep. And that that year's still tasted fine, right,

1692
01:48:49,080 --> 01:48:51,080
Speaker 1: I mean it tasted strong. I mean we ate it.

1693
01:48:51,080 --> 01:48:53,720
Speaker 1: It was really but yeah, so just walking up to it,

1694
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 1: you were like, holy moly. Yeah. And that year, um,

1695
01:48:58,160 --> 01:49:01,240
Speaker 1: hiking for work, there were least two times when I

1696
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:05,920
Speaker 1: smelled a buck before I saw it. Really, yeah, this

1697
01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:10,960
Speaker 1: is real barnyard goaty kind of smell. But the Idaho

1698
01:49:11,080 --> 01:49:15,559
Speaker 1: ones I heard bucks are great and Idaho all the

1699
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:17,960
Speaker 1: bucks we got this year are delicious. But they were

1700
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:21,720
Speaker 1: not they you know, they didn't you couldn't smell them

1701
01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:26,600
Speaker 1: when you were up at them. They weren't already smelling. Yeah. Yeah,

1702
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:29,280
Speaker 1: what was the date of the one you shot in Washington?

1703
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:31,320
Speaker 1: You felt, was like right, it out pretty good? Um,

1704
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:38,160
Speaker 1: it was it was mid October. That was a strange year.

1705
01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:39,960
Speaker 1: That year is what a lot of people in the

1706
01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:44,839
Speaker 1: valley referred to as the slaughter of because for whatever reason,

1707
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:48,880
Speaker 1: bucks started migrating down into the valley earlier. Maybe because

1708
01:49:48,880 --> 01:49:52,200
Speaker 1: it was a really dry summer, I don't know, but um,

1709
01:49:52,240 --> 01:49:55,719
Speaker 1: they started migrating down really early, and um it seemed

1710
01:49:55,720 --> 01:49:58,200
Speaker 1: like they started getting ready earlier and they were just

1711
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:07,439
Speaker 1: it was a slaughter. So people were killing show up everywhere, right, Yeah. Yeah,

1712
01:50:07,439 --> 01:50:10,639
Speaker 1: this pass hunting season people have done I think pretty poorly,

1713
01:50:10,680 --> 01:50:14,160
Speaker 1: it seems like. So it's just one of those things.

1714
01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:20,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, well congrats on your first solo deer. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah,

1715
01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:22,960
Speaker 1: it's about as small as a deer as could be

1716
01:50:23,080 --> 01:50:28,439
Speaker 1: legal in Washington. No, no, not this one. No, that

1717
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:35,280
Speaker 1: was yeah, this one, that one, So what's the new one?

1718
01:50:35,640 --> 01:50:39,360
Speaker 1: So that's a just tiny, delicious buck. Yeah, alright, good.

1719
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:41,000
Speaker 1: I thought you're saying you got a whole bunch of

1720
01:50:41,240 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 1: eating a head of you know, that's all behind you know,

1721
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:46,240
Speaker 1: ye yes, polish it off. Now you're moving on to

1722
01:50:46,280 --> 01:50:48,719
Speaker 1: the good one. Yea. And then have you guys eaten

1723
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:51,479
Speaker 1: any of the meat off the box that were killed

1724
01:50:51,520 --> 01:50:57,960
Speaker 1: in Idaho? Yep? They're great? Yep yeah yeah, Kale, I'm

1725
01:50:57,960 --> 01:51:02,320
Speaker 1: just ask if you had any final thoughts. I'm just wondering, Uh,

1726
01:51:02,680 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 1: where are you taking me hunting next? Now? Your place

1727
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 1: is burned out. I'm so sorry. I'll tell I'll answer that,

1728
01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:16,320
Speaker 1: and I have some thoughts and questions but I'm gonna

1729
01:51:16,360 --> 01:51:21,000
Speaker 1: not do them ungradulation and uh, lots of milestones to

1730
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:25,559
Speaker 1: come huh. And obviously, uh, when did you guys start

1731
01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:29,280
Speaker 1: going out of state for hunts? Uh? My husband has

1732
01:51:29,320 --> 01:51:33,280
Speaker 1: gone elk hunting for his whole life out of state. Um,

1733
01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:36,120
Speaker 1: this was my first time. Nice. Yeah, but adding some

1734
01:51:36,160 --> 01:51:39,719
Speaker 1: more days to the year, Yeah, that's a big thing. Yeah.

1735
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:44,120
Speaker 1: Does he does he kill elkin Washington too? Yeah? And

1736
01:51:44,120 --> 01:51:47,680
Speaker 1: then real quick, I'm going to ask you this before, Um,

1737
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:52,200
Speaker 1: would you do you have interest or not in bear hunting?

1738
01:51:53,600 --> 01:51:58,960
Speaker 1: I don't not an invitation, I don't personally you're a baker.

1739
01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:03,720
Speaker 1: Oh then the bear fat Yeah, yeah, I've done that

1740
01:52:03,760 --> 01:52:05,760
Speaker 1: with a road kill. No, it wasn't a road kill,

1741
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:11,360
Speaker 1: was a bear call. I've done sweet good. But I just, um,

1742
01:52:11,439 --> 01:52:14,599
Speaker 1: I think we may be talking about this last look

1743
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:17,240
Speaker 1: at it and see a game animal. I've just yeah,

1744
01:52:17,400 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 1: I've done so much bear work, and you know, cub

1745
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:24,960
Speaker 1: counts and you're dealing with their cubs, and I just

1746
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:29,240
Speaker 1: just special. There's a lot of people I know that

1747
01:52:29,320 --> 01:52:35,040
Speaker 1: are lifelong cold blooded hunters. You just don't want to

1748
01:52:35,080 --> 01:52:37,560
Speaker 1: hunt bears. Man. They're like a lot of guys I

1749
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:42,439
Speaker 1: know they got a bear too, and my brother put it, uh,

1750
01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:45,360
Speaker 1: one of my brothers put it. He quit bear hunting

1751
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:48,960
Speaker 1: when he got a bear and walked up to it

1752
01:52:49,160 --> 01:52:51,000
Speaker 1: as his first sort of feeling because you know, the

1753
01:52:51,080 --> 01:52:53,840
Speaker 1: hide is beautiful, right, so you can't ditch the hide,

1754
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:57,559
Speaker 1: but it's expensive to get him tanned. And you used

1755
01:52:57,560 --> 01:52:59,800
Speaker 1: to be like sweet, you know, get the bear, get

1756
01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:02,040
Speaker 1: the eat the bear, have a bear rug or bear

1757
01:53:02,120 --> 01:53:04,880
Speaker 1: hide for whatever. He said. He walked out to one

1758
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:08,840
Speaker 1: and his first feeling was oh man, and he's like,

1759
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:11,760
Speaker 1: then I just knew I was done. I just knew

1760
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:15,960
Speaker 1: well the minute I calculated, like I gotta spend money

1761
01:53:16,040 --> 01:53:18,599
Speaker 1: to get the two thing tan because it'd be wasteful

1762
01:53:18,600 --> 01:53:22,240
Speaker 1: to that. And he just took that as his thing.

1763
01:53:22,320 --> 01:53:26,639
Speaker 1: That wrapping her up on bear hunt. Yeah that makes

1764
01:53:26,680 --> 01:53:32,760
Speaker 1: sense because and you guys chime in obviously. But you're

1765
01:53:32,880 --> 01:53:38,439
Speaker 1: seasoned hunter now, right, like ten years doing things a

1766
01:53:38,479 --> 01:53:43,599
Speaker 1: hard way. That was a girl, and you've got some successes, right,

1767
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:47,280
Speaker 1: I mean, do you feel like, um, now you're kind

1768
01:53:47,320 --> 01:53:53,880
Speaker 1: of working up to something else. Um? Yeah, well, elk

1769
01:53:54,040 --> 01:53:57,920
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to getting my first elk um.

1770
01:53:58,080 --> 01:54:00,519
Speaker 1: We always putting for all kinds of tags. I'm I

1771
01:54:00,560 --> 01:54:02,559
Speaker 1: really want to go moose hunting. I'd love to go

1772
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:05,360
Speaker 1: sheep hunting. There's tons of things I'd love to do. Um,

1773
01:54:05,400 --> 01:54:10,040
Speaker 1: but I'm also just I just want to get um

1774
01:54:10,240 --> 01:54:14,280
Speaker 1: good at high country mule deer hunting, because that's what

1775
01:54:15,560 --> 01:54:19,800
Speaker 1: is Yeah, it's what you know. We've Yeah, I love

1776
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:23,519
Speaker 1: We've spend the summer scouting and hiking around in the

1777
01:54:23,560 --> 01:54:27,320
Speaker 1: high country and um, yeah that that part has just

1778
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:29,600
Speaker 1: really got me in the getter and I'm want to

1779
01:54:29,640 --> 01:54:32,520
Speaker 1: do that. So yeah, I want to get good at

1780
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:37,400
Speaker 1: that me too. Can you explain it last time? You

1781
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:41,960
Speaker 1: explain that sort of graph, the sliding curve that you

1782
01:54:42,040 --> 01:54:46,760
Speaker 1: have for when the animal goes from yeah, food, and

1783
01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:51,360
Speaker 1: then I forget what too. Yeah. So there's there's your

1784
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 1: your and it's I imagine its being different for everybody.

1785
01:54:54,440 --> 01:54:58,760
Speaker 1: Got your x axis, which is a order of animals,

1786
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:02,280
Speaker 1: and it might, for example, start with mosquitoes, something you

1787
01:55:02,320 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 1: want to kill, and it might end with like your mom,

1788
01:55:07,560 --> 01:55:10,120
Speaker 1: something you really don't want to kill. And then there's

1789
01:55:10,160 --> 01:55:12,800
Speaker 1: two lines and one is kind of your I think

1790
01:55:12,840 --> 01:55:19,480
Speaker 1: of it as like, uh empathy, and that that line

1791
01:55:19,720 --> 01:55:23,720
Speaker 1: climbs to a point where you're you cannot set that aside,

1792
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:27,160
Speaker 1: and you just could not kill something. And then there's

1793
01:55:27,160 --> 01:55:29,480
Speaker 1: the want to kill, want to want to want to hunt,

1794
01:55:29,560 --> 01:55:33,640
Speaker 1: wanna you know, engage in some sort of predator prey

1795
01:55:33,720 --> 01:55:37,720
Speaker 1: relationship want to eat it line, And so where those

1796
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:42,040
Speaker 1: Internet sect is where things get fuzzy. Oftentimes that's maybe

1797
01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:45,320
Speaker 1: a bears for people, it seems like, and then above

1798
01:55:45,360 --> 01:55:48,120
Speaker 1: that as things you just couldn't bring yourself to to kill,

1799
01:55:49,160 --> 01:55:53,720
Speaker 1: and that that line for me, um gets blurry or

1800
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 1: it gets the empathy line climbs when I've worked a

1801
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:06,560
Speaker 1: lot and and know a lot about and a species. Yeah,

1802
01:56:07,200 --> 01:56:10,280
Speaker 1: I was thinking on the flight over here at a

1803
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:14,400
Speaker 1: very agitated gal that I was right next to um

1804
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:22,800
Speaker 1: for reasons unknown, and I had stewardess or flight attendant,

1805
01:56:22,840 --> 01:56:25,800
Speaker 1: and I was working her tail off and uh, but

1806
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:32,640
Speaker 1: she like whacked me with the cart and I was

1807
01:56:32,960 --> 01:56:35,640
Speaker 1: trying to avoid the gal to my right because she

1808
01:56:35,920 --> 01:56:39,320
Speaker 1: definitely needed some space. But so I got whacked with

1809
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:43,360
Speaker 1: the cart really hard, and I kind of looked up

1810
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:46,240
Speaker 1: at this gal and she looked at me like, get

1811
01:56:46,360 --> 01:56:49,000
Speaker 1: the hell out of the way. I just wanted to

1812
01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:55,920
Speaker 1: ask her, when did you lose your empathy? Yeah? Probably

1813
01:56:56,360 --> 01:57:02,000
Speaker 1: doesn't take long in service business sometimes, but that's not

1814
01:57:02,040 --> 01:57:06,600
Speaker 1: necessarily just being around the critter that you're dealing with,

1815
01:57:06,720 --> 01:57:11,120
Speaker 1: right right, Well, I mean I don't know, under understanding

1816
01:57:11,160 --> 01:57:17,200
Speaker 1: and maybe um it gets harder to objectify them. Yeah,

1817
01:57:17,280 --> 01:57:20,400
Speaker 1: like if you started squid, you make it burned out

1818
01:57:20,440 --> 01:57:23,440
Speaker 1: and eat squid or find I'm not appetizing, but it

1819
01:57:23,480 --> 01:57:25,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't be like, oh I studied squids so much that

1820
01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:29,880
Speaker 1: I now feel real bad eating a squid, Right, I'm

1821
01:57:29,880 --> 01:57:31,480
Speaker 1: not sure that would happen with a squid for me.

1822
01:57:32,280 --> 01:57:34,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's like it has a different

1823
01:57:34,320 --> 01:57:38,440
Speaker 1: kind Yeah, well yeah, so for like, um beavers, I

1824
01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:41,560
Speaker 1: worked on a beaver project, a really cool project and

1825
01:57:41,920 --> 01:57:44,280
Speaker 1: how for a couple of years that um it's still

1826
01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:49,520
Speaker 1: it's still happening. It's a beaver relocation project, and a beaver,

1827
01:57:49,680 --> 01:57:52,840
Speaker 1: I feel like, is one of those animals that people

1828
01:57:54,080 --> 01:57:59,440
Speaker 1: um underappreciate, But through this project, I just um have

1829
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:04,400
Speaker 1: kind of a in love with them, just learning and

1830
01:58:04,440 --> 01:58:07,360
Speaker 1: sort of taking time to recognize what they do. Because

1831
01:58:07,400 --> 01:58:12,080
Speaker 1: this project, um, so our job was to there be

1832
01:58:13,080 --> 01:58:16,520
Speaker 1: landowners that might call that live down on on the river,

1833
01:58:16,720 --> 01:58:19,320
Speaker 1: on the ditch system or whatever, and they have problem beavers,

1834
01:58:19,440 --> 01:58:22,720
Speaker 1: and so usually those are just easily removed. Well in

1835
01:58:23,080 --> 01:58:25,680
Speaker 1: the Medhow, just like a lot of the West beavers

1836
01:58:25,720 --> 01:58:32,280
Speaker 1: were you know, trapped out and UM yeah right yeah,

1837
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:34,320
Speaker 1: and in a lot of places they've had a hard

1838
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:39,280
Speaker 1: time re establishing UM themselves. And so in the Medhow

1839
01:58:39,640 --> 01:58:42,960
Speaker 1: there's all these high country creeks and stuff that used

1840
01:58:42,960 --> 01:58:48,760
Speaker 1: to have beavers in them, creating a vastly different landscape.

1841
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:51,040
Speaker 1: So we had these little creeks that would then have

1842
01:58:51,640 --> 01:58:57,680
Speaker 1: UM just sprawling wetland beaver establishments, UM just sort of

1843
01:58:57,720 --> 01:59:01,600
Speaker 1: punctuating these streams with all this fabulous habitat that is,

1844
01:59:02,240 --> 01:59:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, waterfowl habitat, fish habitat, fawning habitat UM. And

1845
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:10,480
Speaker 1: then not to mention that those beaver establishments hold water

1846
01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:14,000
Speaker 1: back and so the snow melt off doesn't just rush

1847
01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:17,240
Speaker 1: off the mountain, and so everybody downstream benefits by a

1848
01:59:17,320 --> 01:59:20,120
Speaker 1: slower release of the melt off every year, and maybe

1849
01:59:20,120 --> 01:59:25,360
Speaker 1: that stream doesn't dry up UM. And there's also evidence

1850
01:59:25,440 --> 01:59:30,120
Speaker 1: that that's holding the water in ponds. UM keeps the

1851
01:59:30,120 --> 01:59:32,920
Speaker 1: creek at a lower temperature for for fish because that

1852
01:59:33,040 --> 01:59:35,440
Speaker 1: water is sinking down into the ground. And when when

1853
01:59:35,480 --> 01:59:38,400
Speaker 1: it comes up later, it's it's still really cold. Um.

1854
01:59:38,520 --> 01:59:41,120
Speaker 1: So the aim of this project is to take those

1855
01:59:41,120 --> 01:59:45,720
Speaker 1: problem beavers and then um by live trapping them and

1856
01:59:45,760 --> 01:59:48,360
Speaker 1: then we would um actually hold them in a fish

1857
01:59:48,360 --> 01:59:51,600
Speaker 1: hatchery facility until we could get like a family group,

1858
01:59:52,320 --> 01:59:54,920
Speaker 1: um and then release them up in the high country

1859
01:59:54,960 --> 02:00:01,080
Speaker 1: in areas that could benefit from basically restoration of the creeks. Um.

1860
02:00:01,120 --> 02:00:03,760
Speaker 1: And so we'd release them and hopefully they would they

1861
02:00:03,760 --> 02:00:08,360
Speaker 1: would stick um anyway. But the point is is that beavers,

1862
02:00:08,400 --> 02:00:12,000
Speaker 1: I feel like, are often really underappreciated, but um, they

1863
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:18,040
Speaker 1: are actually now I know, just nuggets of gold. Um.

1864
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:21,520
Speaker 1: And so that's something that I personally maybe didn't think

1865
02:00:21,560 --> 02:00:24,680
Speaker 1: about much before. But UM, my empathy line has has

1866
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:28,760
Speaker 1: gone way up for these these critters because what they

1867
02:00:28,800 --> 02:00:32,360
Speaker 1: do is just so it's instant gratifications, the most important

1868
02:00:32,480 --> 02:00:35,960
Speaker 1: it's the most important animal to American history. America was

1869
02:00:35,960 --> 02:00:40,520
Speaker 1: built on that, right. Yeah, America's first homegrown millionaire made

1870
02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:43,680
Speaker 1: his fortunes. Yeah, yeah, trading and beber hunh. Yeah, but

1871
02:00:43,760 --> 02:00:51,520
Speaker 1: they're also really important for our landscapes. But yeah, Pooter, Andrew,

1872
02:00:52,400 --> 02:00:55,960
Speaker 1: Andrew Pooter, do you have any final Um, it's been

1873
02:00:55,960 --> 02:00:58,000
Speaker 1: interesting has been a pleasure to listen to your stories.

1874
02:01:00,040 --> 02:01:02,720
Speaker 1: It's feeling good about everything. Yeah, I didn't contribute much,

1875
02:01:02,720 --> 02:01:04,520
Speaker 1: but I don't care. That's good to listen. I want

1876
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:06,120
Speaker 1: to make sure you have that you feel welcome to

1877
02:01:06,400 --> 02:01:11,880
Speaker 1: good presence. Yeah, thanks, Yeah, I'm John already had my

1878
02:01:11,880 --> 02:01:17,760
Speaker 1: closing thought. Cal I think I'm there too, don't. There's

1879
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:22,240
Speaker 1: some good stuff though, Carmen, Um, can I make a

1880
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:29,480
Speaker 1: b h A plug? That's great? So I, um, um,

1881
02:01:29,840 --> 02:01:35,040
Speaker 1: you're just gonna make the rest of us look bad. Well,

1882
02:01:35,160 --> 02:01:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm working on growing a little community of h members

1883
02:01:40,280 --> 02:01:45,400
Speaker 1: in the Mahaw Valley because it is such a important

1884
02:01:45,800 --> 02:01:49,280
Speaker 1: maybe you know, probably the most important mule you're hunting

1885
02:01:49,280 --> 02:01:53,960
Speaker 1: place in the state. UM. And it is such a

1886
02:01:54,040 --> 02:01:57,160
Speaker 1: unique landscape with those wilderness and everything else. UM. So

1887
02:01:57,240 --> 02:02:00,320
Speaker 1: trying to get a b h a UM community sort

1888
02:02:00,360 --> 02:02:06,280
Speaker 1: of established there. Um. And it's also BHA means back

1889
02:02:06,320 --> 02:02:11,600
Speaker 1: Country Home, which is a nonprofit conservation group that uh

1890
02:02:12,400 --> 02:02:18,720
Speaker 1: you tell them right, keeping public land public and um

1891
02:02:18,800 --> 02:02:22,960
Speaker 1: and managed appropriately. And so we have an issue with

1892
02:02:23,120 --> 02:02:26,560
Speaker 1: a mining company in the valley UM wanting to put

1893
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:28,720
Speaker 1: in a Canadian mining company wanting to put in a

1894
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:32,960
Speaker 1: big copper mine. On our our four service land UM

1895
02:02:33,080 --> 02:02:38,960
Speaker 1: and so our Washington chapter is UM supporting a mineral withdrawal,

1896
02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:44,920
Speaker 1: which is legislation that would protect uh forty million acres

1897
02:02:44,920 --> 02:02:47,720
Speaker 1: of our headwaters from not only this copper mind but

1898
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:52,920
Speaker 1: any future mining claims and UM. Anyway, so our our

1899
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:57,520
Speaker 1: chapter is supporting this mineral withdrawal. UM. But I just

1900
02:02:57,600 --> 02:03:01,840
Speaker 1: want to encourage anybody who is from Washington, especially if

1901
02:03:01,880 --> 02:03:04,680
Speaker 1: they come maybe from the west side of the state,

1902
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:08,120
Speaker 1: to hunt out in the men how to UM check

1903
02:03:08,160 --> 02:03:11,160
Speaker 1: out our Washington chapter and get involved. And we're gonna

1904
02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:14,680
Speaker 1: have some volunteer stuff coming up this spring and UM

1905
02:03:14,760 --> 02:03:18,560
Speaker 1: people who hunt out there can can work on the

1906
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:21,000
Speaker 1: landscape a little bit with us too. And a headwaters

1907
02:03:21,040 --> 02:03:28,680
Speaker 1: issue is everybody's issue, because everybody's downstream. Yeah, good plug,

1908
02:03:29,680 --> 02:03:35,800
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. Carmen van Bianchi, that's right right, Thank

1909
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:37,280
Speaker 1: you for joining us, Carmen, thank you,