WEBVTT - The Unsolved Mystery Disappearance of the Sodder Children 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.440 This episode is brought to you by square Space. Start 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.440 building your website today at square space dot com. Ter 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.639 offer code stuff at checkout to get ten percent off 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.960 square Space. Set your website apart. Hey, new shows coming 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.239 your way, live shows that is. Yeah, we're going back 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:23.439 to d C and Boston, that's right this fall October Thursday. 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.880 We're gonna be at the Wilbur Theater in Boston, where 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.400 we've performed before. And that's why we're going back because 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.120 Boston was like one of the best shows off the 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.040 chain I think is what they called. It was very 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.120 much off the chain. And uh, we're also going back 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:40.440 to Washington, d C. On Saturday, October twenty nine as 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:42.720 part of the Benson Ball Comedy Festival. Yeah, and we're 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.040 gonna be at the Lincoln Theater again. Yeah. That was 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.000 off the chain as what boy. That was a great show. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.639 So big ups to you Boston and d C. That's 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.720 why we're coming back. So tickets go on sale tomorrow Friday, 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.240 and um you can find out the information at our 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.800 square Space Live show home on the web s y 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.360 s K live dot com. And if I happen to 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.240 not have the links up for that yet, just go 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.520 to the Wilbur Theater website or go to the Benson 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.600 Ball or Lincoln Theater websites and get your tickets because 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:15.880 these are gonna be reserved seating. So if you want 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.680 to get up close and smell us, then you gotta 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:20.600 be Johnny on the spot. You don't want to do that. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.720 So we look forward to seeing you guys. Uh this 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:29.280 wall Yep, welcome to you Stuff you should know from 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:38.040 house stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.120 I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, Jerry's 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:47.240 over there. So this is Stuff you should Unsolved Mysteries Edition, Yeah. Really, 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:52.480 are you cool with this? No? I'm leaving. Yeah. I 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.880 think it's great. Man. I love me a good unsolved mystery. Yeah, 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.000 and this is super sad. So it's not like I 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:02.120 love it and I think it's hysterical. I just I 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:09.680 just like unsolved mystery. What's a what's an hysterical unsolved mystery? Um? Like, 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.000 I got pants in the second grade and I don't 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.919 know who did it. That's an hysterical unsolved mystery. I 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.800 was just in line pants around the ankles turned around 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.240 and like everyone's like did you just go with it 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.480 and you're like, check it out, check me out of 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.280 in second crate. Yep, God for that never happened. I 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.800 made it up. Oh really yeah, it's called improv, buddy. 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:39.160 It's a crowd. So end scene and scene and seen. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.000 Have we are established which one it is? Yeah? A 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:48.480 few times and nope it is Chuck. We are talking 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:54.639 about a family called the Solders. Um, not the Soldiers right, 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.880 not the welding technique. No, the Solders. They are a 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:03.079 family out of Fayetteville, West Virginia, UH of Italian extraction, 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.520 as we'll see, Yes, and um very much so. Like 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.600 you said, this is an unsolved mystery. They their family 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:14.120 just going along totally normally has turned into one of 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:18.400 the stranger unsolved mysteries in American history. Yeah, and certainly 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.600 in West Virginia history. Definitely. And I should say I 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:29.280 texted our friend Justin McElroy of the McElroy triplets. Well, 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:34.200 they're not triplets, they're there. They're brothers of my brother, 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.080 my brother and me podcast because they are from West Virginia. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.880 And as you'll see here there's a very famous billboard 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.360 that we're going to talk about about this case and 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:45.280 I was like, hey, dude, do you ever do you 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.240 remember where you know seeing this thing? How far are 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.360 you from Fayettville. He said, just a couple of hours, 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:51.720 he said, but I've never heard of that. And I 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.840 was like, really, this seems like the kind of cautionary 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.320 tale that would be whispered about all over West Virginia. 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.000 I can see that. But he said he never heard 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:01.440 of it. And then he looked it up and said 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.200 oh wow. And I said, I that your dad knows 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.440 about it, and then he said he didn't. He didn't respond. 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.800 You didn't text him back? Answer me, No, that's right. 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:13.640 I am Facebook friends with his dad, though, should have 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.600 says yeah, ask him, Yeah, go go to the source. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.520 That's right. So well, let's go back to the beginning. 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:26.960 Chuck back to that's right. That's when Georgeiros who had 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:31.760 become George sodder I was born in Sardinia and came 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.479 to the US and nineteen o eight as a young 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.880 lad of thirteen years old. Yeah, and he was a 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.080 go getter, he really was. So his He had an 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:43.679 older brother who traveled with him from Sardinia to New York. Um, 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:45.960 I guess he was like, I don't want to do this, 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:47.840 and right when they made it through Ellis Island, he 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.200 turned right back around and went back to Italy. Yeah, 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.120 he's I don't know, man, Go get a cup of 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.320 coffee and think it over. What I say, if you 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.400 made that ship's voyage, just mull it over for a 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.000 day or two. Yeah, because what if, like you're half 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.000 way back, you're like, actually I should have stayed. Yeah, 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.760 you might meet a pretty lady from Brooklyn. You see 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:13.320 that movie bok No great? Really? Yeah? Yeah, okay, it 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.760 sound surprised. I was a little surprised. Yeah. It was 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.679 nominated for many awards. That doesn't always mean it usually 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:25.480 means it's pretty good. No, it's Pence Brooklyn, highly recommended 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.440 about young Italian man who falls in love with an 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.440 Irish immigrant. Oh well, this has nothing to do with 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:34.719 this thing. No, not at all, because this man falls 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.320 in love with an Italian immigrant. That's right, right? So, um, George, 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:40.919 like you said, he was a bit of a go getter. 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.520 He's thirteen, he's on his own, literally, without any any 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.640 other family in America. It's kind of mind blowing. But 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.120 then you think back to there there, they didn't really 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.840 understand what childhood was at that point. So he's probably 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.760 like of working age and have been for years. But 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.000 it seems really weird to us now. He might have 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:05.440 been retiring, right. He was smoking cigars already, so he, 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:07.599 like I said, was a go getter. He started working 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:12.120 at on the Pennsylvania Railroad and then moved to West 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:17.800 Virginia to Smithers Smithers, West Virginia and worked as a 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.080 truck driver and then said, you know what, this is America. 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.120 Darn it. I didn't come here to drive a truck 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.600 for someone. I'm gonna own my own trucking business. And 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:32.760 the statue of Liberty went up, nice going king. So 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.400 he started his own trucking business. Um, and he's in 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.599 West Virginia. So in short order he starts hauling cole yeah, 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:41.960 coal and dirt. And it wasn't like the hugest business. 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:43.599 I think he did okay for himself. He did it 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.359 okay for himself, like solidly middle class. Yeah, he didn't 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.360 become like wealthy or anything. And as a matter of fact, 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.560 later on um a local local government official would say 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.880 that the Sauders were, um one of the best middle 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:02.240 class families in Fayetteville, and they had a small Italian 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.360 population in Fayetteville, which I think is why he ended 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.240 up there in his community. Yeah, and he moved there 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:14.080 with his wife Jenny, right, Yeah, Jenny Cipriani who he 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.560 met UM. She came over from Italy when she was three. 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.280 He met her historic called the music box and they 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.559 got married. And like Italian families do, they had ten kids. 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.800 Ten kids in twenty years. That's a lot of kids, 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.600 pumping them out with great regularity. And like you said, 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:33.360 when they moved to Fayettville, the reason they moved to 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.160 Fatville had no idea that West Virginia even had Italian 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.760 people in it, let alone strong Italian communities. But they 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:43.480 moved to Fayettville and they were part of the Italian community, 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.480 and George was well known. Again, they were a respected 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.120 middle class family there. He did pretty good for himself. 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.560 UM and he was also well known for his opinions 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:57.360 and everything, including politics and UM. During the forties, the 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.080 United States was at war with Italy and not all 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.720 of the Italian Americans were UM feeling it. On the 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:09.280 American side, there were a lot of disagreements over Mussolini 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:14.000 and the government that he was creating. UM. Among Italian Americans, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:18.560 including in Fayetteville, West Virginia, and George in particular, hated 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.560 Mussolini and very frequently spoke out about him and would 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.920 get in arguments with some of the locals who who 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.360 felt differently about Mussolini. And uh, I guess there were 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.200 some hard feelings here there, but he doesn't seem to 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.760 have taken them seriously very much. No, And we mentioned that, Um, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.000 if it sounds like we're setting something up for later, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:40.280 we indeed are, so just tuck that little fact away. Um, 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.160 and then can we fast forward in time? Yeah? Too? 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:51.640 Uh Christmas Eve? Christmas Eve? Right, so, um, here's what happens. 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:56.079 It's Christmas Eve. Um. As his tradition, in some households, 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.880 you can open up a few gifts on Christmas Eve. Yeah, 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.120 so this is what happened. They opened up some presents 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.760 comes time for Betty by and five of the children, 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:14.920 Maurice fourteen, Martha twelve, Louis or Louie ten, Genie or 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.520 Jenny as that was a little confusing because that's the 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:21.160 mom's name. Eight years old. And Betty said, can we 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.600 please stay up late and play with these new toys? Yeah, 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.400 they're older, sister Marian had. She worked at a five 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.680 and diameond Town two miles down the road, and she 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.920 had surprised her younger brothers and sisters with some toys 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:36.880 that they had not been expecting. That's right, and they 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.400 were very happy. So they asked mom if they could 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.840 stay up. Yeah, and the older, the elder, Jenny, said yeah, 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:44.880 I guess you can stay up. Turn out the lights, 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.320 locked the doors before you go to bed. I'm going 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.280 to hit the rack with your dad. And are two 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.160 year old daughter Sylvia, twenty three year old John and 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.600 sixteen year old George Jr. Were I guess they were 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.679 just ready for bed too. And then if you're thinking 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:03.760 there's one missing child, he is away in the military, 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.880 the eldest. Yeah, fighting either Mussolini or Hitler or to Joe, 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.920 one of those guys. So he's away. Uh. And I 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:18.880 could not, for the life of me find that guy's name. So, Um, 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.760 the mom goes to bed, Jenny goes to bed, and Uh. 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.839 The dad, George and his two next oldest sons who 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.080 had been working with him that day, they'd all gone 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.079 to bed about ten. Um, what time did the mom 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.920 go to bed? At eleven? Something like that? Yeah, but 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:39.680 she leaves those five youngest children, Um and Marian, they're 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.680 older sister who I think was seventeen at the time, 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:46.080 downstairs when she goes to bed Um. And then at 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.360 about twelve thirty on Christmas Morne, because remember that was 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.600 Christmas Eve, about twelve thirty at night, the phone rings, 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.440 and um, this is not an era where and this 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:58.880 kind of to me goes to show these people were 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.280 doing all right. They had a phone in in West Virginia. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:05.800 They may have been the only people in West Virginia 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:10.160 with the phone in nineteen I'm just saying, I don't 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.840 think everybody had a phone in West Virginia, n so 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.520 they certainly didn't have one at their bedside. So Jenny, 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.840 the mom has to get up to answer the phone, 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.439 and on the other line she hears a woman asking 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.040 for somebody she didn't know or recognized, and in the 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.240 background there's obviously a party going on. There's laughter, there's 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:32.280 clinking of glasses, and uh, Jenny says, I don't know 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.120 who you're talking about. You have the wrong number, and 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:37.960 the woman laughs weirdly and hangs up. Yeah, I'm gonna 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:39.640 go ahead and come out and say I think this 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.720 means nothing, and it's total coincidence. So supposedly they tracked 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.040 that woman down and she said it was just a 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.120 wrong number. Potal coincidence, that's what I think. But think 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.720 about that though, Like, had that not happened, a lot 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.480 of other stuff would have gone unnoticed. Right, it's a 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.800 big deal. So before she goes back to bed, she 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.960 noticed the lights are on downstairs. She said, you know, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:04.560 turn the lights off, locked the door before you go 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:06.240 to bed. So one of her kids is on the 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.000 couch asleep. She's like, wait a minute, the doors unlocked, 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.000 the lights are on. Um, they shouldn't have done that. 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:13.839 So let me lock the doors and turn off the lights. 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.440 And she leaves the one that's asleep on the couch asleep. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.920 It was the one that got her to sleepy time 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.040 on the couch. That's fine. But those five younger ones 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.120 who've been playing with their toys, they were not ordered 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.480 to be found, so mom just assumed they went upstairs 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.360 to bed. So she goes back to bed, and then 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.840 like an hour later she's awoken by like a thump 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:40.160 on the roof. Yeah, and she falls back asleep again. Well, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.959 it sounded like a heavy thump and a sliding down 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.439 of the roof. This was just something heavy head landed 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.400 on it and then slid off, and she just went 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.760 back to sleep. Very important matter. She probably figured it 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.120 was a reindeer or something like that at being Christmas, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.120 you never know. Uh. The next time she woke up, 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.120 she woke up to panic and chaos because their house 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.400 was on fire. And Chuck, we'll talk about the fire 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:33.440 right after this. All right, dude, the house is on fire, 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.280 that's right. So Sylvia a litt two year old Sylvia 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.360 is in their room with her the parents, so they 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:44.680 get her out obviously with them because she's in the crib. Uh. 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.840 And then seventeen year old Marion and twenty year old 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.199 John and sixth year old George Jr. Are all outside 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.720 and safe right at this point. So everyone is out 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.440 except for these five other kids, right. And they were 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.320 the top floor of the house, I believe, in two 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.040 different rooms, and the only way down is this one 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:10.240 single staircase. And George tried to go back into the house. 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.320 He broke through a window, cut his arm quite badly. 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.679 Um getting into through in through the window or opening 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:21.360 the door. Um, and runs inside and the entire downstairs 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.720 floor is totally engulfed in flame and smoke. He can't 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.680 see anything, but he can see that there's no way 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.320 he can go up the staircase or anyone can make 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.800 it down the staircase, So he runs back outside of 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.960 the house to try to figure out another way to 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.320 get up to those kids on the on the top floor. Yeah, 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.320 and here's an interesting point, Um. One of the relatives 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.320 of I think it was the guy who ended up 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.840 marrying the youngest daughter later in life. UM Sylvia said 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:49.640 they did a lot of research on this, and he 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.400 said the original police report said that the very first 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.360 statement said that the two sons, John and George, who 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.240 got out, said they actually ran into the other kid's 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.680 rooms and physically took them awake. And then later on 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.800 in interviews they said no, they just called out to them, UM, 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.640 and assume they heard. But it's still is a mystery 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.240 as to whether or not that really happened. Police will 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.720 say the first statement is usually the accurate one, UM, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.840 but that's just speculation. So from what I understand, the 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.160 family rationalized that later on by saying that the two 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:29.440 boys probably felt very guilty, and they said that they 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.400 did what they wished. They had or felt that they 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.560 should have done. That makes sense, and that their revisions 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.320 later on were actually the factual ones that they tried 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.960 to rouse their siblings by just shouting up the stairs. 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.800 I can buy that. Um. So Papa tries to get in, 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.960 cuts himself really bad. Then he says, wait a minute, 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.240 I have this ladder that leans up against the house. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:54.000 Always always let me go grab that ladders not they're 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.520 very weird. It is very weird. They would be found 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.760 in a ditch like from the house later on, and 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.520 later on witnesses supposedly saw dude stealing it, uh from 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:09.400 the garage. But there's so many things that people say 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.880 about this case that it's hard to know what's true 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.240 and what was invented. That is true that they saw 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.600 a guy a dude, well they report that they saw 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.040 a guy. Well that guy the guy actually was found 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:23.360 and was arrested and charged for stealing and never questioned 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.400 about the actual fire. The guy that stole the ladder. Yeah, okay, 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.680 so they he says. The dad says, let me get 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.600 my trucks, my big uh coal Holland trucks and pull 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.280 because those are tall. Let me pull that next to 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.560 the house. Climb up on that. Uh, neither one of 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.040 the trucks start, even though they've been using them to 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.440 work earlier that day. Yeah. So the thinking by the 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.720 cops and everyone else pretty much is in the panic 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.120 he and his son flooded the engines trying to get 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.040 him started, and that they wouldn't start. Yeah, but it 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:57.560 became yet another like fishy detail that made this family 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.720 suspect like something really weird happened here. Yeah, and then 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:06.240 later there was a totally don't understand the whole engine 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:10.640 removal theory. So it doesn't make any sense that guy 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:15.119 who stole the ladder was caught stealing a block and 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.800 tackle that you would use to remove engines. Yeah, that 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.800 doesn't make any sense. But it doesn't mean like he 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.240 messed with their car or used that block and tackle 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.640 to do anything to the engines. They probably just flooded 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.639 him that one. I'm I'm in Green Mountain. So this 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.440 this family they're watching helplessly as the house is going 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.520 up in flames that was burned to the ground in 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:40.000 about forty five minutes, ostensibly with the children trapped inside. Yeah, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.600 and if you think why didn't the fire the fire 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:46.199 trucks come the Faettville Fire Department. Uh you know, it 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:51.000 was was Fayetteville, West Virginia, Christmas. It was Christmas night 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:56.399 or morning, I guess. At this point, um, uh you know, 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.320 one of the daughters went to a neighbor's house called 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.080 the fire department. No operators on duty even right, And 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.679 another neighbor who saw this didn't have a phone at 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.000 their house, so they went to the local tavern and 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.840 they called the operator to report the fire too, and 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.399 they couldn't get the operator either operator was probably at 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:19.359 home sleeping for Christmas, that's right. So eventually someone drives 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.840 and literally physically tracks down uh fire Chief F. J. Morris, 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:27.000 who does not come out smelling well in this, Well 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.600 he doesn't. He said, no, I can't drive the fire 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.080 truck as the fire chief. And the way that they 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.400 don't even have a siren. The way that they alerted 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.080 the fire department was it's called a phone tree. They 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.399 just start calling one another, then they called the next person, 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.160 which made even the last sense because again the statters 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.240 were the only people in West Virginia with a phone 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.280 in their house. That's not true. Uh So eventually, seven 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.800 hours later, at eight a m. The fire truck arrives 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.040 to find a smoldering pile of ash, and a lot 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.320 of people are like, well, clearly the fire department was 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:01.439 paid off or told to halt. From what I gather, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.440 it was sheer ineptitude. And also the sense I think 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:11.000 the fire marshal or fire chief defended himself later saying, yeah, 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.160 he said I couldn't drive the fire truckside to wait 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.359 for somebody who could. And also that house went up 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.240 so fast there was no there wasn't any need for 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.240 us to get there in any kind of hurry. Well, 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.440 I mean that's probably true. He also said burned in 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.120 like between thirty and forty five minutes. Yeah, if you're 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.160 a fire chief, that's not what you want to say, 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.639 you know, like who cares when we get there? Also, 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.520 one of the firemen who showed up was Jenny Satter's brother, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.439 So it's not like there was this conspiracy to among 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.720 the fire department necessarily, although that is a common belief 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.640 in people who pay attention to this case. Is so, 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:48.960 what they find eight am as a house burn't to 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.479 the ground, what they don't find are any remnants of 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:56.560 those five children. Yeah, and here in is where the 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:01.320 mystery really kicks in the family starts like paying attention 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.199 to little weird details. At first, they just assumed that 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.280 the kids have they're they're just totally gone. They were 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.600 totally burned up. Well that's what the fire chief said. 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.120 He was like, there's no remains whatsoever because it burned 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.359 them to nothing. They did like a cursory examination of 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.800 the rubble. They did find some other stuff, like they 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:24.359 found appliances that were recognizable. They found a couple other things, 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.320 but they never found any of the kids. Um. And 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:32.480 they took the fire chief's word at face value and said, Okay, 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.480 well our kids are in there. We can't bear to 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.399 the side of this any longer. So George went and 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:41.800 got a bunch of dirt and buried this site in 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:45.639 about five ft of fill dirt and decided to plant 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.560 a memorial garden there on the side of the house. Fire. Yeah, 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.959 this is on January two, so that he wasn't supposed 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.480 to do this. They're supposed to leave it open to 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:58.639 continue to investigate. Um. The state police inspector said it 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:02.959 was faulty wiring. It's now covered in dirt. Um And 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.359 so now the family has just left alone saying what 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.480 happened to our children? Are they were they in there? Right? 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.320 So that that when they buried the place and dirt, 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.359 they assumed that the children were still in there and 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.639 this was there. They're grave now, they were never going 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.600 to be found. Um. But then, like you said, they 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.320 started thinking about weird details that emerged. Right. One of 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.240 the first ones was the idea that it was faulty wiring. 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.080 George basically knew for a fact that it wasn't faulty wiring. 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.959 He'd recently had um an electric stove installed and just 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.920 to make sure again there he was doing pretty well, 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.200 just to make sure that the house didn't burn down 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.719 with this new fangled electric stove, he had the wiring 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.600 in the house redone and then he had it inspected 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.480 by the power company who sent out an inspector and 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:50.800 said they did a good job. The wiring is fine. 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.600 So he basically knew almost for a fact that it 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:57.400 wasn't faulty wiring in the house. Yeah. Not only that 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.760 after the fire started, when they were outside, there were 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:02.560 still lights on in the house, right, So remember Jenny 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:04.480 came down and turned out the lights. She left the 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.560 Christmas tree lights on, and while the house was burning. 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.800 The Christmas tree was still the Christmas tree lights are on, 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.359 which must have been like a really ghastly thing to see, 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:18.280 you know. Uh. Speaking of the wiring, there was a 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.800 point a few months earlier, and this is definitely a 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.040 strange thing, when this guy showed up. He was a stranger, 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.480 no one knew him, and he asked about, you know, 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.080 working as a driver, and he didn't have any work 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:32.400 for him, but he was sort of just I guess. 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:34.960 They had the conversation outdoors, wandered around at the back 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.400 of his house and said, you know what you're wiring 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:39.280 here at your fuse box is going to cause a 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.320 fire someday. And George thought, well, that's a really weird 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:45.280 thing to say, because not only did I have it 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.520 just inspected and it's fine, it's just a strange thing 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:51.720 for you to say, Mr stranger, get off my property 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:56.879