Speaker 1: Ye, welcome to another episode of Varieties Strictly Business podcast,
Speaker 1: where we talked with some of the brightest minds working
Speaker 1: in media today. I mean Andrew Wallenstein with Variety Intelligence Platform.
Speaker 1: Like everything else these days, the TV industry is in
Speaker 1: a state of flux, to say the least. That's meant
Speaker 1: a recalibration of all kinds of practices and processes for
Speaker 1: people like my next guest, Ken Basin, is not just
Speaker 1: the author of the book The Business of Television, he's
Speaker 1: the head of business Affairs at Paramount Television. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Strictly Business. Ken. Thanks Andy, it's really fun to
Speaker 1: be back. Yeah. I went back and checked and you
Speaker 1: were on the podcast almost exactly two years ago, July one,
Speaker 1: And it's only been two years, but honestly it feels
Speaker 1: like two hundred. Yeah, you know, I think it's it's
Speaker 1: been an exciting decade since I last spoke to you.
Speaker 1: I think we've all lived many lifetimes in journeys since then.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, no interesting updates, right, we can
Speaker 1: make a quick short one of this. I'm sure it
Speaker 1: should be pretty simple. Yeah. When we last talked, peak
Speaker 1: TV was topic a and it seemed like the industry's
Speaker 1: worst problem was there's too many TV shows. Fast forward
Speaker 1: to now and there's barely any shows in production due
Speaker 1: to the pandemic. And I'd imagine that means deal making
Speaker 1: is going quite differently for you these days. Definitely, I mean,
Speaker 1: certainly in the simplest terms. The focus is on development
Speaker 1: right now because that's what we're in a position to do.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, Paramount, like every company, has been
Speaker 1: thinking hard about how we can continue to do the
Speaker 1: most business in the best way with the circumstances that
Speaker 1: are in front of us. And so we know that,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of work to do to
Speaker 1: manage the pandemic right now, but that there will be
Speaker 1: another side of it, and so we're preparing ourselves with
Speaker 1: a lot of new project generation, still working extensively with
Speaker 1: writers and producers, trying to be very thoughtful about how
Speaker 1: we put projects together and when we take them to
Speaker 1: market to make sure that they get the best opportunity
Speaker 1: to succeed and don't get swallowed up. Uh, within the
Speaker 1: moment that we're in. But business is absolutely moving forward.
Speaker 1: If you had asked me in March, what would I
Speaker 1: be doing if lockdown was still going in late July,
Speaker 1: I would have answered, probably a lot of yoga and
Speaker 1: building legos. But as it is, I'm as busy as
Speaker 1: I was on the first day of the lockdown, which
Speaker 1: is as busy as I was a week before it began. Well,
Speaker 1: let's put development aside for a second. Is there any
Speaker 1: activity with regard to production resuming at some point for
Speaker 1: shows that have obviously already made it through development and
Speaker 1: are ready to go and all the things that go
Speaker 1: into creating a safe environment for production. Should it happen
Speaker 1: again anytime soon. Absolutely, And there's a couple of wings
Speaker 1: in which that's taking place. One is just extensive dealmaking
Speaker 1: is is one of the right words, but really just
Speaker 1: coordination and collaboration between you know, studios and networks in
Speaker 1: the environment, working together to come up with plans for
Speaker 1: how we return and working to figure out what are
Speaker 1: the sort of economic consequences of the moment and how
Speaker 1: those are going to be borne by the various parties
Speaker 1: involved with the show. Um, you know, I think every
Speaker 1: large company is undertaking its own process to come up
Speaker 1: with return to work rules, the new procedures that we
Speaker 1: want in place to assure the safety and security of
Speaker 1: cast and crew, but our network partners have opinions about
Speaker 1: that sort of thing as well, and so part of
Speaker 1: the process is, uh, you know, coming up with joint
Speaker 1: plans that incorporate the priorities and needs and concerns of
Speaker 1: both the networks and the studios. And in a sense, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, those are only two of the voices of
Speaker 1: the room. We're also incorporating the opinions and requirements of government,
Speaker 1: where in extensive negotiations with the unions, all of them
Speaker 1: over return to work rules, um, which involves you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of commitments to them about how to keep
Speaker 1: their members safe and all the while, you know, all
Speaker 1: of these things come with costs. So we are you know,
Speaker 1: in constant dialogue with the networks about what's the appropriate
Speaker 1: allocation of those burdens in a way that is both
Speaker 1: fair and also frankly allows these things to continue. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's anybody's desire or really that anybody would
Speaker 1: be well served by completely disclaiming responsibility for for any
Speaker 1: aspect of what's going on. One of the lessons certainly
Speaker 1: I'm taking, and I hope others are taking of this
Speaker 1: pandemic moment is we live in a complex, interconnected ecosystem
Speaker 1: where we all rely on each other. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: we should have all known this all along, and so
Speaker 1: we're trying to bring that attitude and perspective into coming
Speaker 1: up with solutions for what we're dealing with right now,
Speaker 1: because as there is economic pain to go around, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, we ultimately want this to be sustainable and
Speaker 1: survivable for ourselves and the parties that we work with
Speaker 1: every day. In addition, as we're now a few months in,
Speaker 1: we are starting to look ahead to deal making four
Speaker 1: returns to production and that's a you know, tentative process
Speaker 1: and it's a very i think custom process on our
Speaker 1: project by project basis, because the situation isn't different everywhere,
Speaker 1: excuse me, isn't identical everywhere in the world, and so
Speaker 1: are sort of preparedness and anticipated timetables for going back
Speaker 1: to production in Vancouver may be very different from those
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, may be very different from those in Australia,
Speaker 1: depending on conditions on the ground. But we are also
Speaker 1: starting the process of making deals with you know, line producers,
Speaker 1: with casting directors and with other sort of key contributors
Speaker 1: to the production of a series in anticipation of coming back,
Speaker 1: but doing our best to prepare ourselves if those uh,
Speaker 1: you know, optimistic hopes are an't always born out and
Speaker 1: we have to push back even further. This all sounds
Speaker 1: horrifically complex, and I know, even in the best of circumstances,
Speaker 1: UH can be quite contentious. So what is the culture
Speaker 1: of deal making right now? Because everyone's got to you know,
Speaker 1: row the yours in the same direction to make it work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think there's a recognition of that. And I uh,
Speaker 1: certainly one thing that I've observed and marveled at with
Speaker 1: others who do what I do is, for the most part,
Speaker 1: the culture of deal making right now has been very
Speaker 1: positive and collaborative. I think there's a sense both that
Speaker 1: on a professional and industrial level it is incumbent upon
Speaker 1: all of us to figure this out so all of
Speaker 1: us can continue to you know, earn revenue, run our companies,
Speaker 1: make projects. And at the same time, I think there's
Speaker 1: a recognition among everybody who's you know, bouncing a kid
Speaker 1: on their knee during their work zoom meetings or otherwise
Speaker 1: trying to reconcile uh, their their parental responsibilities of professional
Speaker 1: responsibilities and maybe just a tiny corner of personal sanity
Speaker 1: that everybody on the other side of the phone or
Speaker 1: the other side of the zoom is going through much
Speaker 1: the same thing. And so I think, um, it's really
Speaker 1: been a healthy environment where people have kind of brought
Speaker 1: their best selves to the negotiations, um, and and try
Speaker 1: to approach things in a way that's solution oriented rather
Speaker 1: than adversarial in a negotiating climate that is sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: particularly adversarial among many industries, I think as Hollywood has
Speaker 1: a reputation for I'd say if in deal making, one
Speaker 1: clause I've heard more about in the last four months
Speaker 1: than possibly the last ten years is forced masure, which
Speaker 1: I can only imagine how different those clauses are in
Speaker 1: terms of how they're structured going forward. Yeah, So, first
Speaker 1: of all, I mean the biggest difference is that as
Speaker 1: you say that, it's it's a pair of words on
Speaker 1: everybody's lips, because traditionally deal making, uh, you know, force masure, uh.
Speaker 1: And just to kind of define terms for for those
Speaker 1: that it is you know, second nature to your force
Speaker 1: masure is a concept under basic contract law about excusing
Speaker 1: performance if there is a sort of major, unexpected third
Speaker 1: party event that interferes with parties doing business under contract.
Speaker 1: And so the classic examples of force masu are war
Speaker 1: um uh. Labor strikes can be considered force masures uh. Floods, fires,
Speaker 1: big sort of natural disasters, earthquakes, acts of God is
Speaker 1: a sort of synonym that sometimes used. And in traditional
Speaker 1: Hollywood deal making, you always knew that the force masure
Speaker 1: was kind of a background aspect of virtually any agreement
Speaker 1: that you entered into, but it was something you virtually
Speaker 1: never talked about. It was routine. Um. It was something
Speaker 1: that never came up the deal making phase where people
Speaker 1: are focused on substantive terms. It was something that you
Speaker 1: worked out in the paperwork once you got past that
Speaker 1: first step. Now, especially with an eye towards productions coming back, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, people are aware that the that force masure
Speaker 1: plays an important role in what we're doing right now.
Speaker 1: And really, for the first time in my career, force
Speaker 1: masur is being introduced as a deal point in the
Speaker 1: initial deal making phases. Uh. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that's interesting about it is there is no sort of
Speaker 1: disparity of information out there. Everybody's negotiating these points kind
Speaker 1: of you know, looking at the world and having the
Speaker 1: same observations and experiences, and so Talent are looking for
Speaker 1: protections that if there's a resurgence of COVID that you know,
Speaker 1: shuts production back down again after it resumes that they
Speaker 1: will be protected in their compensation or at least, um
Speaker 1: you protected in their flexibility if they don't want to
Speaker 1: wait around indefinitely. And studios are as finally attuned as
Speaker 1: ever to the importance of these clauses in protecting ourselves
Speaker 1: because while we're not looking to s to manipulate any
Speaker 1: situation with Talent, if we are forced to shut down production,
Speaker 1: we need to be able to mitigate the expense of
Speaker 1: that and um, you know, protect our ability to keep
Speaker 1: key cast and crew together. So uh, you know, something
Speaker 1: that became that spent many years as an afterthought has
Speaker 1: become a central deal point, which you know, again brand
Speaker 1: new to all of us in this game. Another aspect
Speaker 1: that I would imagine is changing much for you is
Speaker 1: how you're dealing with the AMPTP these days, given that
Speaker 1: there's also the backdrop of all this pandemic issues playing out.
Speaker 1: While tensions with the guilds are obviously front and center. Uh,
Speaker 1: what has that been like? Sure? So Uh, look, was
Speaker 1: going to be a big year for the AMPTP no
Speaker 1: matter what, because is on the every three year cycle
Speaker 1: where we're negotiating the d g A, w g A
Speaker 1: and SAG after agreements anyhow, uh and so uh, you know,
Speaker 1: no surprise that there was a role for them this year.
Speaker 1: But you know, the pandemic, maybe more than anything that
Speaker 1: I've encountered in my career, is a true hand industry issue, um,
Speaker 1: something that is affecting every producer more or less equally.
Speaker 1: I've never seen a situation where all production everywhere in
Speaker 1: the world ground to halt all at once. And so
Speaker 1: when you're facing a challenge that truly touches on every
Speaker 1: part of the industry and affects everybody, there's an important
Speaker 1: role for a trade group like the AMPTP so that
Speaker 1: we can make smart decisions because you know, ultimately, UM,
Speaker 1: I think Hollywood gets through this by recognizing our our
Speaker 1: shared uh interests and are shared fate, and the AMPTP
Speaker 1: becomes a vehicle for that. So uh, just as the
Speaker 1: AMPTP is the central body through we we organized art
Speaker 1: collective margeting, as we're now dealing more extensively with the unions,
Speaker 1: on return to work rules. The A m B t
Speaker 1: P is the vehicle through which we're having those conversations,
Speaker 1: so every company doesn't have to negotiate independently with the unions.
Speaker 1: The AMPTP has also had an important role in kind
Speaker 1: of being the touch point for the industry with the
Speaker 1: state and federal government officials. Again, we are submitting plans
Speaker 1: and white papers to the governor in California and in
Speaker 1: New York articulating the industry's vision for when and how
Speaker 1: production should resume. The AMPTP has allowed us to speak
Speaker 1: more or less with one voice so that we can
Speaker 1: have that conversation most effectively, um ultimately, As I said,
Speaker 1: you know, this is an area where I'm sort of
Speaker 1: when I look at the challenge in front of us,
Speaker 1: I'm reminded of kind of other similarly structural challenges to
Speaker 1: television or film or entertainment where maybe the industry wasn't
Speaker 1: always as smart about looking at itself as a unitary whole.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I think about the rise of home taping
Speaker 1: in the early eighties, where the music industry and the
Speaker 1: film and television industry viewed themselves as separate and competitive
Speaker 1: and did not work together. To come up with legislative
Speaker 1: solutions or regulatory solutions to protect themselves from piracy, and
Speaker 1: as a result, I think suffered a lot more from
Speaker 1: initially home taping piracy in the eighties leading to internet
Speaker 1: piracy in the two thousands because they did not approach
Speaker 1: things as a group, um and as an industry with
Speaker 1: common goals. Uh. Here, I think that the industry has
Speaker 1: been much more intelligent about saying that, you know what,
Speaker 1: there isn't a division between producers and platforms, or studios
Speaker 1: and networks here, or talent and studios, um. Ultimately we
Speaker 1: all get back to work together. And so I think
Speaker 1: the AMPTP again has been a very useful vehicle for
Speaker 1: taking that collective approach, got it? Uh? And if as
Speaker 1: we talk here, I feel like we're adding layer upon
Speaker 1: layer of complexity. So let me just throw yet another
Speaker 1: thing on the stack here, which is the diversity issue,
Speaker 1: which is obviously a huge subject in the wake of
Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter movement. And you know, I'm curious,
Speaker 1: does that is that something that is already sort of
Speaker 1: permeating deal making, permeating even the culture of companies like
Speaker 1: Paramount right now, given there's so much to reckon with
Speaker 1: their Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's it operates
Speaker 1: independently of the pandemic. I think it's it's an issue
Speaker 1: in a conversation that predates the pandemic. But as you know,
Speaker 1: twenty isn't hurting for big news stories and big challenges
Speaker 1: to society, and we are all being forced to sort
Speaker 1: of reckon with racial engage us as an inequity on
Speaker 1: a social level in a really meaningful way and and
Speaker 1: and more forcefully than has been the case of the past.
Speaker 1: So I think the industry has talked the talk about
Speaker 1: taking diversity and inclusion seriously for some time, but uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the events of the Black Lives Matter protests,
Speaker 1: you know, the murders of of George Floyd and mad
Speaker 1: Aarberry and others have, um, you know, encouraged everybody to
Speaker 1: start walking the walk in a bigger way and to
Speaker 1: really commit themselves to these these issues in in more
Speaker 1: tangible ways. I think a lot of companies are looking
Speaker 1: at their own numbers. I think Paramount has a good
Speaker 1: track record organically over the last few years of seeking
Speaker 1: out diverse storytellers and diverse stories. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the moment demands real action and not just platitudes.
Speaker 1: And so every company is going through a period of
Speaker 1: introspection about where it's truly at and how it gets
Speaker 1: to a better place. And I'm sure that's also working
Speaker 1: itself into where we started the conversation in terms of
Speaker 1: your your focus now on the development front. I understand
Speaker 1: that that sort of proceeds apace. But given you don't
Speaker 1: really know when a lot of what you're talking about
Speaker 1: in development will actually be put in production, how does
Speaker 1: that impact the usual development deal making? Well, Um, for one,
Speaker 1: it requires a lot of communication between the studio and
Speaker 1: the talent and the representatives about what's the plan and
Speaker 1: what's the process. You know, deal making is all well
Speaker 1: and good, but deal making is really designed to the
Speaker 1: way that I think about it as kind of getting
Speaker 1: getting every uh documenting everybody being on the same page
Speaker 1: and what our understandings and what the rules will be
Speaker 1: will be. But the sort of you know, root of that,
Speaker 1: like another step up, is just actually understanding each other
Speaker 1: and having a plan. So we're having transparent conversations with
Speaker 1: our with the writers and producers that we work with
Speaker 1: about what we think the timetable should be. UM Paramount
Speaker 1: has always invested heavily in internal development. You know, there
Speaker 1: are studios that focus more on ifcom arrangements, put together
Speaker 1: a quick package, take a pitch out, take it to market,
Speaker 1: versus blinds, firm script deals, long internal development and packaging processes.
Speaker 1: Paramount has always done a bit of both, and certainly
Speaker 1: we're extra focused on internal development right now because we
Speaker 1: do not want to again take projects out into a
Speaker 1: marketplace where our buyers are maybe feeling really financially stressed
Speaker 1: or kind of you know, struggling with their budgets for
Speaker 1: the year, and so we're taking our time UM working
Speaker 1: on second scripts, bibles and formats. UM. We are being
Speaker 1: you know, we we want to give our projects the
Speaker 1: best opportunity to succeed, and sometimes that means waiting a
Speaker 1: minute so that they kind of reach the most receptive audience.
Speaker 1: And then part of you know, the next planning aspect
Speaker 1: of that is how you cannibalize yourself and you don't
Speaker 1: rush to take everything to market all at once and
Speaker 1: to spread things out in a certain way. It's also
Speaker 1: a task of how you manage kind of pre existing
Speaker 1: development and projects that were already well along the way
Speaker 1: uh to production UM, where maybe the network and the
Speaker 1: studio agree that creatively, this is where we want it.
Speaker 1: And you know, in a normal world this would be
Speaker 1: ready to go, but we can't perceive right now. So
Speaker 1: what do we do? And you know, we're talking to
Speaker 1: network partners about conditional orders where you know, they're making
Speaker 1: a commitment to the series moving forward, subject to you know,
Speaker 1: answering those last questions about what's the cost and what's
Speaker 1: the production plan in a COVID production environment, because we're
Speaker 1: still in the process of quantifying that experience. UM. We're
Speaker 1: also you know, uh, within our network development generating more
Speaker 1: material and more scripts, uh, something that has I think
Speaker 1: already been a trend of development where you're putting together
Speaker 1: more written material before you get into production, so that
Speaker 1: when production does resume, there's the hope of actually smoother
Speaker 1: and easier production because there's more written material and the
Speaker 1: traditional system of kind of rolling the writing and the
Speaker 1: production process doesn't have to take place the same way.
Speaker 1: You can walk into the first day of production with
Speaker 1: more scripts ready. You can have you know, your scripts
Speaker 1: done at an earlier phase in the production process. UM,
Speaker 1: And it's a way to both kind of productively use
Speaker 1: the time we can doing the work we can and
Speaker 1: putting ourselves in a position to have the best production
Speaker 1: experience when that's back on the table. So you've got
Speaker 1: the development pipeline humming. Uh, I'm curious what this means
Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, have you revised your expectations
Speaker 1: in terms of the peak TV trend? Is this? Is
Speaker 1: this still something that's gonna be a hockey stick curve
Speaker 1: flying off to the top right of the chart, or
Speaker 1: are we seeing some disruption of that now? I think
Speaker 1: we are seeing some disruption and of that. Um. I
Speaker 1: think that you know, the peak TV curve, even if
Speaker 1: it was a hockey stick, it was never going to
Speaker 1: be a perpetual hockey stick. There was always going to
Speaker 1: be a plateau on the other end of it. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I do think that this moment may accelerate
Speaker 1: the arrival of that plateau. I mean the streaming wars
Speaker 1: as as you know, people like that term. They're very competitive,
Speaker 1: difficult wars. And I think there's broadly been a perception
Speaker 1: that with the proliferation of all these new streaming services, uh,
Speaker 1: not all will be able to survive forever. Uh. There's
Speaker 1: a assumption that you know, households will tolerate a certain
Speaker 1: number of subscriptions. I believe the average household in the
Speaker 1: research I most recently saw in the US has if
Speaker 1: it is a streaming household, has two point seven streaming subscriptions.
Speaker 1: How much higher can that go? Especially in a time
Speaker 1: when you know, put aside the economic stress on the
Speaker 1: industry and the companies in the industry, there's economic stress
Speaker 1: on the public, on everybody. People are looking at their budgets. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're feeling economically insecure, even if their
Speaker 1: jobs are still in place for now, and I'm probably
Speaker 1: asking them tell their hard conunptions of do I need
Speaker 1: four or five subscription services. One of the trope phrases
Speaker 1: that I've been using for a while is, you know,
Speaker 1: this time a year and a half ago there were
Speaker 1: three premious subscription services. This time next year there will
Speaker 1: be eight, and this time four years from now there
Speaker 1: will be four. Maybe I need to revise that to
Speaker 1: this time three years from now there will be four, um,
Speaker 1: because ultimately, you know, I think the business plan for
Speaker 1: all of these companies contemplated being able to tolerate a
Speaker 1: certain period of time of pain, a certain period of
Speaker 1: time of operating at a loss to acquire the subscriber
Speaker 1: base that it needs to kind of advance to the
Speaker 1: next stage of the industry. And right now, all of
Speaker 1: these new entrants into the market are going to have
Speaker 1: a Harvard time to what have otherwise been the case
Speaker 1: building up their original content offerings. So putting together that
Speaker 1: really appealing package to the consumer to justify the initial
Speaker 1: subscription is a little bit more challenging if you can't
Speaker 1: load up your number of new shows, and uh, the
Speaker 1: sort of macro economic pressure that everybody is under may
Speaker 1: make it harder for these companies to be willing to
Speaker 1: operate these services at significant losses for two, three or
Speaker 1: four years at a time to make it to that
Speaker 1: phase of profitability. So I do think there's a risk that, um,
Speaker 1: you know that the pandemic is going to accelerate the
Speaker 1: contraction in the number of platforms that are active in
Speaker 1: the marketplace, which probably comes with a contraction in the
Speaker 1: overall volume of production that's in the marketplace. Uh. So
Speaker 1: you know, it's not the end of peak TV right now,
Speaker 1: but I do wonder if you know peak TV as
Speaker 1: we understand it. I think when we last spoke, I
Speaker 1: predicted a you know further five year runway to peak
Speaker 1: TV before things we're going to start really tightening up.
Speaker 1: I think there's a good chance that that five year
Speaker 1: runway may look more like a three year runway. I
Speaker 1: hear you. I follow the logic, but I would also
Speaker 1: be remiss in not noting that your parent company, Viacom
Speaker 1: CBS seems intent on entering this marketplace and a lot
Speaker 1: later than many of the other players. So how does
Speaker 1: that bode for your company's effort on this front. Well, look,
Speaker 1: I think I think we have to be clear eyed
Speaker 1: about the challenge in front of us. I think for
Speaker 1: Viacom CBS, the focus is on marshaling the combined resources
Speaker 1: of the recently merged company and sort of um uh
Speaker 1: bringing to bear for the company, UH quality assets that
Speaker 1: we've kind of kept in our back pockets. Where we
Speaker 1: at Paramount are extensive conversations with CBS all access about
Speaker 1: Paramount titles that are a good fit for for the service. UH.
Speaker 1: Paramounts Library has always been sort of are big kind
Speaker 1: of entered market advantage as an independent studio of A
Speaker 1: big reason why we've been able to establish ourselves as
Speaker 1: quickly as we have is by accessing the resources of
Speaker 1: the great i P that we've got, and and sort
Speaker 1: of more that has been brought back into the fold
Speaker 1: because of the combination CBS, and some of that i
Speaker 1: P was sort of split up between the companies when
Speaker 1: they divided back in two thousand six. There's a lot
Speaker 1: that has been sort of held in reserve, UM that
Speaker 1: we can now deploy for CBS all access some kind
Speaker 1: of crown jewel ideas. UM. I can't say a lot
Speaker 1: more than that at this phase, other than to say
Speaker 1: that there's still fuel in the tank, UM, and and
Speaker 1: we're going to have to strike that balance between remaining
Speaker 1: active in the ecosystem and maintaining our relationships with outside
Speaker 1: companies while supporting the big strategic endeavor of ICOM CBS
Speaker 1: as a whole. Yeah. I mean that to me would
Speaker 1: be the big question. You know, you're gonna need a
Speaker 1: lot of fuel in that tank to you know, fuel
Speaker 1: up other rival companies with your content, but at the
Speaker 1: same time, uh, fueling your own effort. And I know
Speaker 1: it's early days and it's not clear what what Viacom
Speaker 1: CBS is exactly doing, UM, but you know that also
Speaker 1: begs another question, which is last time we talked Vicom
Speaker 1: CBS did not exist. Uh, you guys were off separately
Speaker 1: with Viacom. So you know, sort of layer five in
Speaker 1: our you know, complicated stack of of what's making your
Speaker 1: life tough these days. Does that change the nature of
Speaker 1: deal making having a new parent company, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: certainly there are lines of of business that there's a
Speaker 1: natural expectation that everybody's going to take advantage of. We
Speaker 1: as as Paramount, already had had relationships with UM, you know,
Speaker 1: showtime and CPS all access prior to the merger, but
Speaker 1: those have deepened tremendously. We still operate on an arms
Speaker 1: length basis. We have obligations to participants. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we're trying to maintain our own business, but it's also
Speaker 1: a deal making context in which you know, everybody understands
Speaker 1: it's got to get done. UM. Not figuring it out
Speaker 1: is not an acceptable result. But the good news is
Speaker 1: I think everybody is a real professional, and the experiences
Speaker 1: that we've had since the merger UM have actually been really,
Speaker 1: really uniformly positive in terms of I think that one
Speaker 1: thing that I've encountered in large companies UM, and I've
Speaker 1: worked in large companies over my career is when different
Speaker 1: parts of companies are working, you know, into company, there's
Speaker 1: often an expectation on both sides that each is owed
Speaker 1: a sweetheart deal. And it actually increases the friction rather
Speaker 1: than decreases it, because everybody thinks they should be on
Speaker 1: the good end of the favor. Essentially, Um, it's counterproductive
Speaker 1: and UM and it you know, I think it leads
Speaker 1: to bad results. The attitude that I've found within the
Speaker 1: vi Com CBS merger is nobody's expecting anybody to do
Speaker 1: them tremendous favors. We're expecting each other to work with
Speaker 1: each other reasonably, uh, to kind of cut the nonsense
Speaker 1: and find the real business solutions and to um, you know,
Speaker 1: operate fairly. And there are real professionals on all sides
Speaker 1: to understand the marketplace. And so those have been I
Speaker 1: think really productive and for the most part, smooth conversations. Um,
Speaker 1: it's been I don't want to say a pleasant surprise
Speaker 1: because I don't want to. I wasn't necessarily so dower
Speaker 1: on in advance. But I think it's gone really well.
Speaker 1: That's good. And we've talked a lot about streaming. But
Speaker 1: you know, I remember last time we spoke about you
Speaker 1: had particular takes on the future of broadcast and cable
Speaker 1: television in this landscape. Have those changed at all? Do
Speaker 1: they still have seats at the table for who knows
Speaker 1: how long? Yeah? I mean so, I think I think
Speaker 1: a lot of my production predictions from our last session
Speaker 1: umor have have been borne out to an extent and
Speaker 1: maybe supported by recent events, and some uh, you know,
Speaker 1: require some further thought. When we talked about broadcasters, my
Speaker 1: going theory was that the best approach for broadcasters would
Speaker 1: be to refocus on the content that was traditionally successful
Speaker 1: in their platforms that hadn't been as popular in streaming,
Speaker 1: so things like reality, multi camera comedies, excuse me, procedural dramas,
Speaker 1: classic broadcast television. Um. I think that's still true, and
Speaker 1: I think that's more true than ever. Uh. And I
Speaker 1: also I think it's worth noting that as as companies
Speaker 1: are thinking about what kinds of productions can come back
Speaker 1: into uh, what kinds of shows can go back into production,
Speaker 1: as soon as those are the shows that are going
Speaker 1: to find the easiest time to come back. Reality shows
Speaker 1: with controlled stage environment, especially if you reduce the presence
Speaker 1: of the audience, multi camera comedy, same logic versus some
Speaker 1: of the bigger, complex, location oriented, large numbers of extras,
Speaker 1: massive crew shows that are characteristic of quote unquote premium
Speaker 1: television or streaming style television that I think are going
Speaker 1: to take longer to really get back up to speed. UM.
Speaker 1: So I think that sort of prescription for broadcast hold.
Speaker 1: And I think that as we look ahead to how
Speaker 1: they're going to actually program their two seasons, we're going
Speaker 1: to see a lot of programming of that type. Uh.
Speaker 1: Cable certainly is um it remains stressed. UM. I think
Speaker 1: that uh, you know, when we spoke last there was
Speaker 1: a contraction underway in the number of networks that we're
Speaker 1: going to that we're investing in scripted programming UM, and
Speaker 1: again particularly quoe unquote premium scripted programming. I think that
Speaker 1: trend is continuing, and we are going to find that
Speaker 1: some of the networks that you know, we have gotten
Speaker 1: used to seeing scripted programming on are going to be
Speaker 1: turning away from that, uh that content. In part that's
Speaker 1: related to the rise of streaming. The all of these
Speaker 1: major news streaming players are associated with traditional legacy media companies,
Speaker 1: and so I think there's there's a little question that
Speaker 1: HBO Max is really the focal point of the new
Speaker 1: A T and T Warner brother environment. Peacock is really
Speaker 1: the focal point of the new the Comcast NBC universal environment,
Speaker 1: in the same way that by Coom CBS is streaming
Speaker 1: is likely to be a significant focal point of the
Speaker 1: Vicom CBS strategy going forward. And uh, as as you know,
Speaker 1: companies are looking how to serve their digital offerings and
Speaker 1: their cable offerings. You know, streaming is sucking up a
Speaker 1: lot of the con tent and it's going to affect
Speaker 1: the programming strategies for cable. Um. I think there will
Speaker 1: always be a place for scripted on cable, but I
Speaker 1: think scripted is going to become progressively less common on
Speaker 1: cable and there will be a focus on specials on
Speaker 1: unscripted um with a lot of the kind of traditional
Speaker 1: dramas that we've gotten used to seeing being pushed more
Speaker 1: towards the streaming side of the business. For streaming, it's
Speaker 1: really about how do you take maximum advantage of this moment? Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, Netflix's stock has been having quite the time
Speaker 1: over the last few months. Um. Uh, you know, as
Speaker 1: people are home, it's very obvious that they are looking
Speaker 1: for ways to pass the time, and streaming is an
Speaker 1: important part of that equation. So I think for every
Speaker 1: streaming player it's about how do you sort of use
Speaker 1: this opportunity to build the relationship with your customer and
Speaker 1: make sure that it persists so that they remain interested
Speaker 1: in your brand and your service once they're allowed to
Speaker 1: go back out side again. Well, in keeping with our
Speaker 1: every two year podcast schedule, I'm gonna ask you to
Speaker 1: set your calendar for July. It'll be interesting to see
Speaker 1: how much has changed when we do this again. Thanks
Speaker 1: for coming on the podcast, Ken, Thank you Andy. Always
Speaker 1: a pleasure. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation
Speaker 1: with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you
Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. Also, leave
Speaker 1: a review in Apple Podcast let us know how we're doing.