1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: M Hi, everybody, Chuck here, Welcome to Stuff you Should 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Know selects. Every week, as you know, we pick out 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: curated episodes that were some of our favorites, and this 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: week I'm gonna go with Prisons Colon Not as Fun 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: as you think. This is from August twelve, two ten, 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: and quite frankly, this could have been probably a two 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: part episode. We may follow up at some point, but 8 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: it's a really good, honest look at prisons in the 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: United States and uh, just sort of the state of things. 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: And it was very eye opening for me and Josh 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: I remember, and it's got a good title to boot 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: courtesy of Mr Josh Clark. So here we go with 13 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: Prisons Colon Not as Fun as you think. Welcome to 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: as always as Charles W. Chuck Bryant as if you're surprised, Uh, 17 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff you should know, right, Chuck, Yes, 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: we are here, Josh, and uh can we talk about prisons? Now? 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: We can talk about prisons. Remember in the Presidential Pardons episode, 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: I was talking about how people have been calling for 21 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: President Obama to reduced to basically issue a blanket pardon 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: for people who are convicted under the mandatory minimums for 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: crack where there's a huge disparity, and I said it 24 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: was like five to one. It's actually it was I think, um, 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty to one disparity. Right, boy, Well 26 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: he did it like pretty much as we were recording 27 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: that he signed this law or Congress was passing this 28 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: law that reduced the mandatory minimum and basically in effect 29 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: overturned the sentences of first time offenders who are convicted 30 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: and we're given these five years and anybody who was 31 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: convicted under the old mandatory minimum laws. So there's gonna 32 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: be a lot of people coming out of prison looking 33 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: for crag. Well that's one argument that's not very fair 34 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: to say. No, it's not, But I mean, isn't that 35 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: kind of the the way that Americans and probably people 36 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: in general view prisoners. It's like, you did something wrong, 37 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: so you deserve to be where you are. But that's 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: without having any real concept of what prison is like. 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I know I don't want to be in prison. 40 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the movie An Innocent Man? Remember 41 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: we talked about that Tom Sellick, very scary scene. That 42 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: was it for me. I was like, I don't ever 43 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: want to go to prison ever. Um. But that's about 44 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: all I knew about it until we started researching for 45 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: this very robust podcast on how prison works. So chuck, um, 46 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: I guess apparently when this article was written by Grabanowski, 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: it was I think two thousand five is short. That 48 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: was the latest stats he had, and it said he 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: said that there were like more than two million people 50 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: in prison, right, and it's actually decreased. Yeah, I've got 51 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: one point six million at the end of oh nine. 52 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: But when I look at these stats there, they're all 53 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: kinds of stats. Um. You know, one in thirty one 54 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: adults is in the correction system, but that includes jail, prison, probation, 55 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: and supervision. So they narrowed that down to only in prison. 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: One and every one hundred Americans is in prison. I know. 57 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: And that crazy. Did you see what fair state top 58 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: the list for the most number of adults in prison? 59 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: That's right, Georgia, Georgia one in thirteen people, one in 60 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: thirteen adults, and Georgia's in the correctional system. That's crazy. Yeah, 61 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: we live in a state of criminals either that or 62 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: some like a real police state one of the two. Uh. Yeah, 63 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna comment on that. It's a chuck. We 64 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: should probably calm down. Let's settle down here. Let's talk 65 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: about prison. Prison is a deterrent, it's a punishment, and 66 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: it's hopefully there's increasingly it's becoming a place of reform 67 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: and rehabilitation. And we'll talk about that a little bit. Um. 68 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: But in the US, there's pretty much three three types 69 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: of security levels for prison, right, Yeah, with one extra 70 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: little added measure that we'll talk about. It's a big 71 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: extra though. Yeah, you got a minimum, you've got medium, 72 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: and you've got of course everyone's favorite maximum security prisons 73 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: and uh minimums security prison. We we're mainly going to 74 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: cover maximum because that's really the most interesting. Even though 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: I think they said like only or in max is 76 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: that right? Well, according to the two thousand five stats, 77 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: but um minimum is more like like a college campus, 78 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. It's like that weekend that you 79 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: did orientation at the college you eventually went to. I 80 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: would think that's likeum security prison, right, Uh. And that's 81 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: definitely non violent offenders with pretty clean criminal records or 82 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: maybe you've served time in a medium and you were 83 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: really good, and they were like, yeah, let's bump this 84 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: dude down to maximum or minimum. Yeah, right, right, then 85 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: you've got medium. And that's the one that actually you 86 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: you would see most um on like television shows or something, 87 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: people think that's maximum. But when you see prisoners able 88 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: to like move around and play cards and stuff like that, 89 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: that's generally medium from what I understand. Right. Yeah, they 90 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: have like dorm room style accommodations a lot of times 91 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: with you know, eight or ten guys to a room. Um, 92 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: and like you said, the little social day rooms where 93 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: they hang out and trade cigarettes and like on oz. Yeah, exactly, 94 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: do horrific things to when they We'll get to that too. Uh. 95 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: And then of course the grandaddy of them all is 96 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: the maximum security prison. These are the violent offenders, guys 97 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: that have escaped or tried to escape. We're gonna say 98 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: guys a lot. Yes. I think less than ten percent 99 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: of the prison population is female. So it's not like 100 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: we're not trying to give the ladies their due. We 101 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: know you can do awful things as well. It's so 102 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: props to you, but we're gonna say dudes a lot. Well, 103 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: there's and then there's a subcategory that it was pretty rare. Um. 104 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: That came about in nine at the maximum security prison 105 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: in um Marian, Illinois I think not Juliet Marian, right um. 106 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: Two guards were murdered in two separate incidents on the 107 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: same day and the prison went into lockdown, which bad coincidence. 108 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: Is that what they called it, and that's what I 109 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: call it. The prison went into lockdown, which is where 110 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: you're in your cell all day, you can't move around, 111 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: you can't do anything, you have no freedom of movement. Um. 112 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: And it remained in that state ever since. So it 113 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: basically gave birth to the super max prison, right uh. 114 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: And since then a lot of prisons have been opened 115 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: as super max prisons. They're in a state of lockdown. 116 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: And if it sounds a bit familiar, basically the entire 117 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: prison is a series of solitary confinements there the whole. Yeah, 118 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: they call it officially, it's called Security Housing Unit and 119 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: s h U, but everyone calls it the whole, just 120 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: like in the movies. And as far as prisons go, 121 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: solitary confinement and then especially super max is extremely controversial, 122 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: right um Uh. Solitary confinement originally was created in eighteen 123 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: thirty by a warden and a prison in Pennsylvania, with 124 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: the lofty goal of giving a convict nothing but time 125 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: to contemplate what he'd done, the bad thing that he'd done. 126 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: I think anything that was supposed in eighteen thirty is 127 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: a good way to punish people. You might want to 128 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: review that notion again here. And so, yeah, they basically 129 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: found out that actually these are they don't sit around 130 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: and think about all the bad they've done. They kind 131 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: of go nuts, and not just kind of go nuts, 132 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: they go clinically insane as anybody would, right, or they 133 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: go in sort of insane, and they really go off 134 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: the deep end. Right because prison has also and still 135 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: remains used to Um, how is the mentally ill at 136 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: times not as much or as overtly as before, but 137 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: still you find the insane in prisons, right. Um. The 138 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: other problem with a super max facility, besides the fact 139 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: that it amounts to torture, psychological or otherwise, is that, um, 140 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: these things, these places are reserved for the worst of 141 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: the worst, supposedly, and in any given state there's a 142 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,559 Speaker 1: couple maybe the worst of the worst, But a super 143 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: max prison may have a couple hundred cells. Yeah, you 144 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: gotta fill the cells somehow, So you have relatively minor 145 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: offenses or convicts, um going into super max prisons killing 146 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: themselves in a really horrible way. Yeah, this is a 147 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: big build up in the nineties. I think they said 148 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: by the end of the decade and of the nineties 149 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: that um, thirty different states had a super max prison. 150 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: And you said that each state only has a handful 151 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: of dudes that even qualify. So, like you said, they 152 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 1: get put in there, they kind of go through a 153 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: zookosis of sorts, like weird behavior like the bears walking 154 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: in circles. Um, except way way worse, way, way worse. 155 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: This one guy in Wisconsin, he was a sixteen year 156 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: old car thief. Another guy, twenty year old David Tracy, 157 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: hanged himself in a Virginia super max and he was 158 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: nineteen and he had been there for two and a 159 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: half years for selling drugs. No, he'd been there for 160 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: a year and he had a two and a half 161 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: year sentence and he still hung himself. He couldn't even 162 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: make it a year halfway into a two and a 163 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: half year sentence because he was immediately put in solitary confinement. UM, 164 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: and then it gets worse. Apparently, UM people have um 165 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: been known to swallow razor blades. One guy uh in 166 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: in Indiana super max prison choked himself to death with 167 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: a washcloth, and another guy, twenty one year old mentally 168 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: ill prisoner in that same prison, set himself on fire 169 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: and later died from those wounds. Yeah. The good news, though, 170 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: my friend, is that um, a lot of supermaxes have 171 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: been downgraded since then, Like the current trend is to 172 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: downgrade your supermax to regular max. So they're kind of 173 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: getting the message a little bit that we really don't 174 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: need that to this many super max prisons. Yeah, apparently 175 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 1: the nineties were bad. Yeah, but there was only one 176 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: federal super max, only one, which one a d X 177 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: in Florence, Colorado. A d X Florence. But like you said, 178 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: it's mostly on the state level. That's for like the 179 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: really really bad tax evaders. I imagine a d X 180 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: is not the kind of place you want to take 181 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: a tour. Think that the single federal supermax is not 182 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: the kind of place you want to be. It's a chuck, you, buddy, 183 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: have just been popped. Say, growing marijuana indoors. You're going 184 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: to prison. Let's come to terms with that, okay, okay, Um, 185 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: there's a couple of ways that you actually get to prison, 186 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: right yeah, and there as follows. You can take a taxi, 187 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: which apparently is more routine than we would imagine. I 188 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: had no idea. Um, you can be dropped off by 189 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: a friend or family member. That's what I would choose, 190 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: as in, I think that's what Edward Norton. I'd have 191 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: my mom take me. Do you drop me off at prison? Right? Well? 192 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: And um, you can also take the prison bus. Right 193 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: It's called the Diesel to Diesel tour because they'll you know, 194 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,359 Speaker 1: it's a prison bus. It's not like some luxury greyhound 195 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: uh bus liner. You know how nice as greyhounds are. 196 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're nice. It's not like that. You know that. 197 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: It's kind of cramped and nasty and smelly and it 198 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: sounds like a a locker room on wheels. Well, not 199 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: just that. They you go take yourself to the sheriff's 200 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: department and um, you know, curse your family member for 201 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: not being like, really, couldn't just take me the rest 202 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: of the way to the prison. Um, So you get 203 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: to the sheriff's department and you basically just wait there 204 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: for the prison bus to come pick you up. And 205 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: then you know, you stop at sheriff's department, after Sheriff's department, 206 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: after Sheriff's department. That's the insulting party. You're like, all right, 207 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: can I go to prison? Can I just start this please? 208 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: And they're like, well, we gotta make six stops on 209 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: the way. Hold on, and the bus is going to 210 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: break down in exactly minute. We're gonna go pick up 211 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: your future boyfriend first, So Chuck, you um finally get 212 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: to prison, right, Thank god, those cookies that your mom 213 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: gave you have been taken away from you. I mean 214 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: just immediately. You didn't even get to eat one. They're 215 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: showing down on those, the guards are and you have 216 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: a new moniker. You have a new name, a new 217 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: catch all name that describes you as a newly inducted prisoner. 218 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: You're a fish. Yeah, yeah, just like in the movies. 219 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: You know a lot of this. I thought, that's just 220 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: like in the movies, And it is just like in 221 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: the movies because they know a lot about prison. So 222 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: why would you make a prison movie that was you know, 223 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: completely unrealistic right when you can make the real deal 224 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: and it's very compelling. Yeah, and we'll talk about movies too. 225 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: But yes, you are a fish, Josh, You're all your 226 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: stuff is taken and cataloged, hopefully kept. We'll get to 227 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: that later as well. Some of it might be lost 228 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: along the way. Uh. You are allowed to bring in 229 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: like your reading glasses and maybe a few books. No cookies, 230 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: No cookies, you're legal papers if you you know, were 231 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: into that, and so you're you're processed, right, and you're 232 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: actually processed, often in full view of other cons in 233 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: the fish tank. And they call it, Yeah, they call 234 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: it the fish tank because all the guys who are 235 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: already in prison can sit there and watch. Right. Um, 236 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: but they keep you segregated for about thirty days or more. 237 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: You had no idea what was that long? I didn't either. 238 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: I thought they lowsed you. They sprayed you at the 239 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: fire hose, gave you an orange jumpsuit and threw you 240 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: in there. That's what I imagine. But yeah, no, for 241 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: thirty days you're basically segregated. I imagine what the other 242 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: fellas on the diesel tour, you know, and um, you 243 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: are assigned a job most likely tank like you're on 244 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: full display, like for thirty days. Dudes are sizing you up, hungry. Well, 245 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: like in Shawshank when they took bets on who was 246 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: going to be the first guy, first fish to break 247 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: down and cry that first night, it was that fat 248 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: guy broke down and cry, and then he got beaten 249 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: and bad things happen to him. I always confused that 250 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: in The Green Mile, I didn't like that one. No, 251 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: Sean Schenk was definitely better, but I often confused scenes 252 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: they were shot almost exactly the same. Yeah, agreed. So uh, 253 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: once you get out of your fish tank, you get 254 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: your cell assignment, you may get your job right and 255 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: again for about ten cents an hour. That's what you're paid. 256 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: You should. I read the letter real quick. There's actually 257 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: a site on the web called prison talk dot com 258 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: and it's not as hot as you would think, but 259 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: you can go to forums there and read x cons 260 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: and maybe even some current cons if you have internet 261 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: access and like a minimum security talk about things on 262 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: these prison forms. So I found a letter of I 263 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: was digging around about jobs, and this one guy said 264 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: the worst job he had was being a dorm janitor. 265 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: He got paid forty cents a day, the not by 266 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: the hour, forty cents a day, five days a week. 267 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: There were four dorms total, about sixty guys in each, 268 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: two bathrooms in each. You don't want to have a 269 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: salaried prison job as a convict. I'm not sure if 270 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: that hit home. Sixty guys sharing two bathrooms and this 271 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: guy was in charge of cleaning that on a daily basis. 272 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: I do appreciate you repeating that. So he swept off 273 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: in He said he kept the dorm rooms clean. You've 274 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: never seen a battleground of chaos until you've seen a 275 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: bathroom after thirty guys take a shower, mud dirt, torn tissue, 276 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: blue state soap. So I guess they get SOAPA signed 277 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: to them and never really thought about that. So anyway, 278 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: tobacco spit in the in the hangout room, garbage, um, 279 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: cigarette butts from roll ups. Basically, this dude had to 280 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: clean that stuff up for forty cents a day. And 281 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: he said that was the worst job you ever had 282 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: in prison. And he didn't even mention the fecal matter. Well, 283 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: I think that's implicit. Well I just made an explicit chuck. Yes, 284 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: So that is one example of a prison job that 285 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: you can get um and then you're off to your room, 286 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: which I would encourage everyone out to walk off eight 287 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: ft by six ft wherever they are and get a 288 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: good look at how large that is. And that's about 289 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: the size of your prison cell. That's close to what 290 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: we're at right now. Yeah, that's small, and that's a 291 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: little claustrophobic. Usually, well it depends. The most prison cells 292 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: are designed for one guy, and then as prisons have 293 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: grown increasingly overcrowded, they'll go and like both a bunk 294 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: to another bunk to the wall, and then while you 295 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: have a cell for two and then sometimes there's three whatever. 296 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: Usually if it's designed to house more than um one 297 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: or two people that it's a dorm and it it 298 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: can accommodate about eight guys per cell. Right, yeah, I 299 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: mean we could do a whole podcast on overcrowding and 300 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: the issues there. That's like a very deep problem, but 301 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: we'll just mention it and say it stinks. I'm beat 302 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: literally and otherwise right yeah, um, so chuck, the you've 303 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: got the general population cellblocks, right, which are all of 304 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: the cell blocks aside from the fish tank and maximum 305 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: security which is also known as the whole right, and 306 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: you've basically did you watch OZ a little bit? I 307 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: think from what I understand that that's really accurate. I'm 308 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: sure it is. So there's like a centrally located guard 309 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: and like loose sight or whatever. They're like, you can't 310 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: get through this, you know, operating the all the cell 311 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: blocked doors and like letting people in and out, and 312 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: they have a three and sixty degree view right well, 313 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: and each one I thought this is interesting, is fully 314 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: each wing is fully staffed in case you need to 315 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: lock down that wing. You've got all the dudes there, 316 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: you need to take care of it, and it can 317 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: be sealed off from the rest of the prison because apparently, um, 318 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: the riot mob mentality can spread like wildfire among the 319 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: president population. Yes, yeah, so um, and you would think, 320 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, people try to escape, which, by the way, 321 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: there's a a double check. There's a stuff you missed 322 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: in history class podcast about Alcatraz and the Great Escape. 323 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: They escape from Alcatraz, great movie. So if you want 324 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: to learn more about that one, you can check that out, 325 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: all right, if you're so inclined. Um, But to make 326 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: sure that no one has escaped at any given point 327 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: in time, they do counts through about the same time 328 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: every day, probably the same time every day. They just 329 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: do a head count where you have to like line 330 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: up and they say, okay, everybody's here, right. Then at 331 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: night they walk around and count you while you're sleeping, right, yeah. 332 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: And then not only are you there, but you where 333 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: you need to be. So if they say, well, Josh, 334 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: you're in Chuck cell again, you know where you need 335 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: to be, so they'll beat you down and take you 336 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: to your own cell. Right, I'll feel like I need 337 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: to be here, don't you hear our podcast? The Chuck 338 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: is my partner. I wonder what the good fellas? Uh 339 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: that had to be minimum or was that just a 340 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: sweetheart deal? That was a sweetheart to remember when they 341 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: were all in the same room, like cooking steaks. Yeah, 342 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: they the one guy could slice the garlic so thin 343 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: it would liquefying the oil so great. So Chuck, let's say, um, 344 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: you've become acclimated. You're no longer fish you. Um, you've 345 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: shanked your first guy. Um, and you you're settled in 346 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: for a nickel right. Shank of verb? Yeah, shank is 347 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: a verb and and doun and shiv is also another 348 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: name for a shank, right, which is a homemade knife. Yes, okay, 349 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: I just want to get that clear. I don't know 350 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: that it is clear. Well, a shiv and a shank, 351 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,719 Speaker 1: I now, can both be nouns for the knife. But 352 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: I've also heard that you can shank someone and you 353 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: can show someone you can. I think they're both nouns 354 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: and verbs very loosen prison for the same one. They're 355 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: very understanding, yes, with the vocabulary. Um, so you've settled 356 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: in and you are living your life in prison behind bars, 357 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: you know. Um, it's it's I would imagine fairly horrible. 358 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: But there are bright and shining moments and those basically 359 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: consist of the trip to the commissary, right, yeah, And 360 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: I don't I didn't know this, they don't. You don't 361 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: see this a lot in movies. All you see is 362 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 1: the black market stuff. But there is actually a commissary 363 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: where you can you have an account where you your 364 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: little prison money goes into your account. They obviously don't 365 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: give you cash. That wouldn't be a good idea. And uh, 366 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: you go to the commissary and say, hey, I like, um, 367 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: whatever is approved on the list, you know, like a 368 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: pack of smokes and uh People magazine and they're like, 369 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: well that's you know, three and a half dollars. So 370 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: you go work for a month People from January, Sexiest 371 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: Man Alive. And actually they debit each Each prisoner has 372 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: an ID card that is linked to basically their prison 373 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: work account. That's when they take their their debited credits 374 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: or given credits, and then it's debited from their account 375 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: when you buy stuff from the commissary. I learned about 376 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: that from Snoop Dogg. Really, so that's the fancy modern 377 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: prisons have it all electronically hooked up, which makes sense. 378 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: But um, like we said, there's also a black market, 379 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: which you have seen in every prison movie ever. There's 380 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: dudes trading cigarettes for favors or for protection, or for 381 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: better books or better People magazines or whatever. And there's 382 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: also visits from out of doors. Yeah right, sure you 383 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: get the bad stuff in a lot of times. Again, 384 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: good fellas, you remember Karen snuck in like those huge 385 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: bag pills. I mean just like like in her purse 386 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: or in her bra or something. Yeah, they clearly didn't 387 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: check her. Again, I think that they got special treatment, 388 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: right and chuck um one of the things that I 389 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: would imagine goes for a pretty high price, you know, 390 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: maybe a dozen cigarettes or so. Um is prison wine, right, Yeah? 391 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: Which prison wine? PRUNEO. Have you ever seen the site 392 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: where the guy eats nasty things, Steve, Steve, don't eat it. 393 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: I think it's called um. It is really funny And 394 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: I saw this years ago. This guy made Pruno prison 395 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: wine in his house and it's made with like fruits. 396 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: It's sort of like a Sangree type of thing. Then 397 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: you put like moldy bread in a sock and it's 398 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: like soaking all together in a bag till it ferments, 399 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: and it's imagine pretty disgusting. Steve said it wasn't that bad. 400 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: He drank it. He did a white and a red. 401 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: He said the white smelled like wrecked um, but he 402 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: said it tasted just like alcohol. And he said the 403 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: red actually wasn't that bad at all. He said, he 404 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: said it tasted wine like and got him drunk, which 405 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: is which is the deal. And uh so that that 406 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: was the deal with Pruno. Wow. I wouldn't recommend trying 407 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: in this at home, by the way, No, but that's 408 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: the whole point. I mean, you're not at home. You're 409 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: in prison and you want to get drunk, so you 410 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: make pruno. Yeah, unless someone wants to. Like you said, 411 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: with visitation, you can sneak things in if you're you know, 412 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: on the down, you're really not supposed to do that 413 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: way not supposed to. You get searched and um, and yes, 414 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: we are talking about visitation as well, now right, I 415 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: didn't realize that UM visiting hours are basically like business hours. 416 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: I thought it was like one day a month and 417 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: everybody came at the same time on the same day. 418 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: But that makes zero sense. UM. Prisoners are assigned a 419 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: set number of visits per month, and I think the 420 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: maximum number of visits you can get per month is 421 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: for the most exemplary prisoner on the planet. Yeah. I 422 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: would imagine that that's something that they take away pretty 423 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: pretty routinely, if you, you know, are being disciplined, yes, Josh. 424 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: And you also have to have a list when you 425 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: go in of who you say can and can't visit you. 426 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: And if you're not on that list, you can eventually visit, 427 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: but it's gonna take a long time and a lot 428 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: of paperwork and red tape. Yes, right, Yeah, and I 429 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: think you have unlimited visits from investigators, your lawyer, and 430 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: that's about it, right, Yeah, but they still keep track 431 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: of all that and your search coming in and the 432 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: prisoner and the and the visitor both searched coming in 433 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: and out. I don't know if it's a full body cavity. 434 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: It probably depends on the max level or your crime. 435 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 1: I think kind of follows you around in prison, like 436 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: what you did, what you're convicted of, Like if you 437 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: were convicted for smuggling things in your butt, and I 438 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: check you a little more careful. And of course, now 439 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: since we're talking about um, oh, and during visitation, like 440 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: just regular visitation, right, Um at a minimum security remember 441 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: this is just like college orientation weekend. Um. It looks 442 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: like a waiting room. Um. And then in maximum security 443 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: visitation is like through that bulletproof class on the phone. Yeah, 444 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: it's pretty accurate. And then there's a different kind of 445 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: visitation that I think everybody likes to think about, at 446 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: least thinks about whenever they hear prison, and that is 447 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: conjugal visitation. Right yeah, it's it's one of the two 448 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: ways that you can have sex in prison. Right. This 449 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: is far more the um the I guess more governmentally 450 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: defended way of having sex in prison. Um conjugal visits. Actually, 451 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: we're um. Originated in nineteen eighteen in Mississippi at a 452 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: state prison in Mississippi, where they remain in effect. But 453 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: originally they were created as a reward for hard work 454 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: on the chain gangs and stuff, right well, and to 455 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: incentivize them to work harder to write um, and it 456 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: worked really really well. UM. Nowadays that's not used quite 457 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: as um overtly as an incentive or reward. Um. It 458 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: is a reward for for good behavior or you have 459 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: to be like, you know, the one who can get 460 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: as many visits a month as one possibly can level 461 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: of good behavior prisoner. But um. It's generally defended in 462 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: two ways. One is a basic human right, like you 463 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: have a right to have sex even if you're incarcerated, 464 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: just like you have a right to food and water 465 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: and being kept clean, sure, right um. And then the 466 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: other way, and this this appears to be much more 467 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: legitimate in the eyes of the correction system. It's a 468 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: way to maintain the family bonds throughout a stint in prisons, 469 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: right sweet. And that's what it's even officially called as 470 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: the extended family program, right, So it's not just about sex, 471 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: Like you can have your whole family come over and barbecue. 472 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: In some states it's UM In Canada, I think they 473 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: have there there. I guess visitation areas look like apartments 474 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: have barbecues. There's such wisses you can have. You can 475 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: have up to three UM family members at a time visit, 476 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: or you can just have your wife and it has 477 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: to be your wife and you have to have been 478 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: married before, because that's the whole point they want. They 479 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: don't want you to turn into even more of a 480 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: deviant than you were going in. They want you to 481 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: keep talking to your wife and keep you know, loving 482 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: your kids, being love by your kids, and to make 483 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: that that transition back out into the normal world that 484 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: much easier. Right, Right, So, if you're one of those 485 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: serial killers and you have one of the weirdos that 486 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: writes you and you mary and then you marry them, 487 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: they can't come and visit you and have sex, right right, No, 488 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: Okay no. UM. If you were gay, however, and you 489 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: have a domestic partner and you are in Mexico City, 490 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: Brazil or California, you are entitled to conjugal visits as well, 491 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: which is pretty significant in California because in two thousand 492 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: seven you could have a conjugal visit if you were gay, 493 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: but you couldn't get married if you were gay, thanks 494 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: to Proposition eight, which was just overturned. Yeah yesterday. It's 495 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: not over yet. The proposition night was overturned yesterday. Yeah. 496 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: So that's the that's the skinny on conjugal visits. Not 497 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: not quite as again like arrested development, I don't think. Yeah, 498 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: And they don't use it a whole lot anymore. They 499 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: say that it's pretty uncommon. There's only six states, right, Yeah, 500 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: but um. The one thing I thought was funny though, 501 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: that one of the rules for the visiting UM person 502 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: is the dress appropriate. And they said on the list 503 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: of rules was no transparent clothing or bare middriffs, strapless attire, 504 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: or anything with obscene or offensive language. So your wife 505 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: can't get all dolled up in her baby doll lingerie. 506 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think they're like, can't you just 507 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: put a trench coat on like everybody else? You know, 508 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: have you not seen the movies exactly? And I think 509 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: the mix that's it's a mixed bag on whether or 510 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: not experts agree or they disagree and disagree whether or 511 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: not it actually serves a really good purpose. Well, yeah, 512 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: and the studies on it have have shown mixed results 513 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: about whether or not it prevents recitativism. Yeah, that's one 514 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: bone head word s y s game that you should know. 515 00:28:46,960 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: Scaly should know knows. But so check. You mentioned there's 516 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: another way to have sex in prison, and this is 517 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I don't want to go to prison, 518 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: because actually there's two more ways. Oh yeah, well, you 519 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: can have consensual sex with another man if you're in there, 520 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: which doesn't necessarily mean you're homosexual. A lot of guys 521 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: just there's nothing wrong with that, Like I just just 522 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: do that because they're in there. And uh, there's also 523 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: rape that happens in prison. That's the reason I don't 524 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: want to go to prison, just one reason. In two 525 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: thousand seven, Josh, we have a statistic from the Bureau 526 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: of Justice says four point five percent of state and 527 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: federal prisoners reported being raped in the past year, and 528 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: that is um seventy thousand prisoners in a year. We're 529 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: sexually abused by either guards or other inmates. See, that's 530 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: all over the place because there's other I've seen other numbers. 531 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: UM one one two thousand four study found that zero 532 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: point zero zero five percent even reported being raped while 533 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: they were incarcerated, and then a lot of those were probably, 534 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, untrue. Well that's the deal, is reported. That's 535 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: the key. Like rape goes unreported a lot, just period, 536 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: but it definitely goes unreported in prison because you don't 537 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: want to be a snitch. Well sure, but no, I 538 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: think these are people who have been let out already. 539 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah. But then in two thousand three, the 540 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: year before UM, Congress created the Prison Rape Elimination Act. 541 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: Did you know about that? UM and the number they 542 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: used just thirteen percent and estimated of prisoners are raped 543 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: during their incarceration and their goal is zero. Well yeah, 544 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: and they're like, you have to have a zero tolerance 545 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: policy on UM. Inmate to inmate rape, UM and guard 546 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: to inmate or employee to inmate, sure rape that kind 547 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: of thing too, because it's not just inmates raping one another. 548 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: Guards at correctional facility have been known to UM be 549 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: a little heavy handed and possibly psychotic themselves. Yeah. And 550 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: I can say this because my cousin was a prison 551 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: guard for a little while a corrections officer cousin Wolfe. 552 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: Was he high school grad? Well he had to be. Yeah, 553 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: but you don't have to go to college to be 554 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: a corrections officer, No, you don't. You just have to 555 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: know how to shoot a shotgun. But to be the 556 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: warden you do. Yes, okay, Josh. Let's say you're in 557 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: prison and you commit a an offense or you're caught 558 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: raping somebody under the new zero tolerance policy. Well, if 559 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: you're caught raping someone or murdering someone, you would actually 560 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: go to trial for real. But if you're caught doing 561 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: something a little less offensive, um, you can go to 562 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: the whole. They can um remove your good behavior time, 563 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: transfer you to to a scarier prison, or like you said, 564 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: limit your visiting hours. That I'm sure that's a good 565 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: way to dig back at a prisoner. So you can't 566 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: get visits, um, and you get demerits called shots, and 567 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: they log those to your little file. Yeah, and they 568 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: take those into consideration when you're up for parole hearing, 569 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: or you're up to maybe get more visitations. If if 570 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: they're any time, they're looking at your behavior. Yeah, um, 571 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: they'll look at the shots and they follow you around. 572 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: You don't want any shots. And that's official punishment. Is 573 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: there's also unofficial punishment needed out by guards, right, Yeah, 574 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: I would rather have the official punishment, I think, because 575 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: just like in the movies, the guards can shake you down. 576 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: They can quote unquote um investigate what you have in 577 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: your room, but what they're really doing is like destroying 578 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: the things that you've grown to depend on to keep 579 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: you saying, I know, have you ever seen Birdman of Alcatraz? Yeah, 580 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: it's awful, and they take his birds away, I know, well, 581 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: and then uh, escape from Alcatraz. They took away the 582 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: one guy's paints. The old dude that painted that was 583 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: like the only thing he loved, and they took away 584 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: his canvas in his paints. Some jerk warden. It's always 585 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: a jerk arden. Well yeah, except Brewbaker. We'll talk about 586 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: that too. Uh. And guards can also beat you down, 587 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: and if nobody sees it and no one reports it, 588 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: then it's just what happens. Well, I think it's I 589 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: think that's officially sanctioned. I don't think that they have 590 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: to get permission to beat you down. If you permission, say, hey, 591 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: this guy is getting a little ordinary. So I'm gonna 592 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: break a river or too. But what I'm saying is 593 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: I think they have a pretty wide berth as to 594 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: what sanctions the beating and Grabmanowski put it, I'd like 595 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: to I'd like to quote him here. It is not 596 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: uncommon for guards to fire shotguns at prisoners whenever they 597 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: see any commotion. I didn't understand that one, and I 598 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: double checked, and it says at prisoners, not just fire 599 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: shotguns like up in the air something. It's just like, hey, 600 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: there's you guys are scuffling, kaboom. Yeah. I don't know 601 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: about that one. Yeah, this is indoors. Uh. So, like 602 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: we said, um, snitches are not you don't want to 603 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: be a snitch in prison. Um. It's very much that 604 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: mentality that you see in the movies where keep it quiet, 605 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: don't rat on anyone because if you do, then I mean, 606 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: who knows what's going to happen. Well, I can tell 607 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: you what's gonna happen. You're likely to be shanked or shipped, 608 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: which is the same thing, or raped and shaw shank. Yeah. 609 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: Remember Andy's problem there with the with the sisters. Yeah, 610 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: but he got back. That was one of the great 611 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: redemption seems of all time. I think the whole movie 612 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: was great, Like, oh no, I'm sorry, I was thinking 613 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: of the Green Mile. Sorry, but the funny thing is is, 614 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: and it's not funny to the guards, but they're way 615 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: way more prisoners than guards. And every once in a 616 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: while in history we've had these big uprisings where the 617 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 1: prisoners have actually taken control of the prison. Yeah, if 618 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: you work at a prison, you don't want to hear 619 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: the word attica sounded out by like enchant form by 620 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: one or even more one or two prisoners. Is that 621 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: what they use? Now? Is that the signal? Well, no, 622 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: I mean like that that means that there's violent unrest 623 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: right around the corner. I thought that was a signal. 624 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: Now it was like attica. I don't know if it's 625 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: a signal. Is more like a call to arms, you know, 626 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden there's toilet paper on fire 627 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: and guys are coming at you and it's just not good. Yeah, 628 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: that didn't work out too well. No, it was seventy one, right, 629 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 1: And apparently Atteka Prison in Upstate New York was really 630 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: really deplorable as far as its treatment of the prisoners went, 631 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: which is really saying something because their prisoners to begin with, 632 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: and to have like the prisoners even know, like you 633 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: can't do this, Um, that's pretty bad. So they took 634 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: a couple of guards hostage, rioted, um held them, and 635 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: demanded for better treatment. And the State of New York 636 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: was like, okay, all right, we hear yet, and we're 637 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: going to storm the prison. And I think thirty three 638 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: people died. Uh No, thirty nine guards. Yeah, thirty nine 639 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: guards and prisoners died. And that was in UM and 640 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: then in eight there's one in New Mexico, right, Yeah, 641 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: the New Mexico State pen uh near Santa Fe was 642 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: another uprising, and that was where thirty three inmates were 643 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: killed and no guards were killed, but seven of them 644 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: were captured and beaten pretty severely, right, and apparently some 645 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: of the inmates that were killed died from torture. Really 646 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: just pleasant. I mean, think about it, Chuck. It's bad 647 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: enough to go to prison, but one of the aspects 648 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: of prison is that there's an end of your sentence. Right, 649 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: there's a light at the end of the tunnel if 650 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 1: you can make it. Dying in prison is about as 651 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: bad as it gets, especially dying of torture in prison, 652 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: I say, it's pretty bad. So Josh, let's say you 653 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: don't die. Let's see you serve your time and you 654 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: do get out. What what what goes on there? Well, 655 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: you would be like of all prison inmates get out. Yeah, 656 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons why you want those 657 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: family bonds in there, because you want to keep people 658 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: on the up and up rather than Prison represents a 659 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: real double edged sword. Either it reforms people or it 660 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: makes them worse, and a lot of that depends on 661 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: how a prisoners treated and the option get into them 662 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: in prison. UM. One of the big trends now is 663 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: education as part of rehabilitation. So I think every single 664 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: state prison in the US UM offers a G. E. 665 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: D Course and some of them require it for parole, 666 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: which is good. Yeah. Right. There's also vocational course. Is 667 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: that kind of thing? Right? Yes, But once again, like 668 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: in shaw Shank, you can take that course and pass 669 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: the test, but if you have a jerk warden, you 670 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: still might get shot. You know, we should have done 671 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: at the beginning of this podcast. We should have just said, everybody, 672 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: go watch Shawshank Redemption. Everybody'll see you next week. Everyone 673 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: loves that movie. Can we talk about the movies now? 674 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: Are we there? Not quite? Okay? Um, chuck. There's a 675 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: lot of people out there who don't think that prisoners 676 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: should just be left to rot, that they there there 677 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: should be prison reformed, that there shouldn't be any rape, 678 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: that that Congress shouldn't have had to have passed a 679 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: law requiring zero tolerance on prison rape. Um. And there's 680 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: actually been a prison reform movement going around since I think, uh, 681 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: possibly earlier than that, I don't know. Yeah, the Quakers 682 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: are huge on prison reform as well. Uh. And again, 683 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 1: you want prison reform, you want your prisoners treated in 684 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,240 Speaker 1: a way where there is the potential for rehabilitation. Um. 685 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: Because of recitativism, right, well yeah, I mean that's why 686 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: they pay them to work these jobs, because they want 687 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 1: to give them some semblance of normal life so when 688 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: they get out they can say, oh, well, I held 689 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,280 Speaker 1: a job in prison for the first time in my life. 690 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: Maybe they were like a drug dealer, what have you? Right, well, 691 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: think about it. Recitativism. The highest rate is among property offenses, 692 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: and that is a crime of the poor breaking into 693 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: someone's house and stealing their stuff. That's what you do 694 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: when you're poor, and that's got the highest rate of recitativism, 695 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: so it would seem like some sort of education or 696 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: occupational program wouldn't help deter that. Well. Yeah, but the 697 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: other stat though, that kind of makes me feel weird, 698 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: is that I think sixty seven percent of people who 699 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: commit crimes to go back into prison. It's an entirely 700 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: different crime than they commit. Oh yeah, which was like, 701 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: that was really discouraging. I would think maybe if the 702 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: guy just can't not steal TVs, he gets out and 703 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: steal TVs, you would think, so at least go back 704 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: to what he knows. But yeah, that's a little staggering. 705 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: It is that would shot any quaker up. And what 706 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: what is the rate I saw? I can't get like 707 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: the most recent stat but it looks like between fifty 708 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: and six somewhere in there from year to year for 709 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: recidivism rates. Yeah, though in two and ninety four it 710 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: was sixty seven point five, right, I think it's gone 711 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,280 Speaker 1: down since then. Yeah, And and that's surprising because the 712 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: incarceration rates have gone down too, which is totally bucking 713 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: a trend. I think, um, they're going down, that's what 714 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: you said. Remember in two thousand five that these stats 715 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: are based on. It was two million and changed too. 716 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it was two million, um one hundred ninety 717 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: three thousand prisoners in the US. You said it was 718 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: less than two million in two thousand nine. Yeah, but 719 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: I think that's people that are currently incarcerated. But that 720 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean more people aren't being incarcerated on a 721 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: daily basis, because I think that's true because the mandatory minimums. 722 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: I think more people than ever are being incarcerated. So 723 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: maybe that was people that had left. I don't know. Well, 724 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: whatever it was, there was a two hundred seventy increase 725 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: between two that's huge, and we spent I think fifty 726 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: one billion dollars to incarceerate people in prison in jail, 727 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,879 Speaker 1: whereas um, I think that comes out of twenty nine 728 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: thousand per mate per year. And remember a bail podcast. Uh, 729 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: it costs twelve hundred and fifty dollars per in mate 730 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: per year for probation. How much hundred dollars rather than 731 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,800 Speaker 1: twenty nine thousand dollars. But these minor offenses throwing these guys, 732 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: especially like the car thief that was in a super 733 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 1: max that was sixteen let me, come on non violent offenses. 734 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: You can rehabilitate that kids with some work. Alright, So, Chuck, 735 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,879 Speaker 1: I think it is movie time, don't you think so? Yes, 736 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: Josh movies. I made a list of my favorites. Feel 737 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: free to chime in. Shawshank Redemption that's number one for me. 738 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: The Green Mile, and that's not on my I've got 739 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: Escape from Alcatraz because I saw that when I was 740 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: a kid, and it's still like an awesome movie. Papillon 741 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: Classic with the Dustin Hoffman with the glasses, with the 742 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: glasses and and Steve McQueen. Right, it was in The 743 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: Great Escape to also a great prison movie. Cool Hand 744 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: Luke was probably the funniest one of the lot. The 745 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: Longest Yard. Actually, that might have been the funniest one. 746 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: I never saw either of them. Really, You're nuts. Bad 747 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: Boys Classic with Wilsmon and the Sean Penn went about 748 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: the Juvi detention. That's when Sean Penn was like, you know, 749 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: nineteen years old and he was in juvenile detention and 750 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: then he he filled a pillow case up with a 751 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: soda cans and just annihilated this dude one night. Yeah, 752 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: that's called a slock by the way. Now, that's one's 753 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: in a sock. Okay, I imagine this is me. It's 754 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,879 Speaker 1: called a slaice UM American History X. That was pretty brutal. Yeah, 755 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: that was very brutal. Brew Baker, did you see that one. 756 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: That's where Robert Redford went in undercover as a prisoner 757 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: to sniff out how awful the prison was because he 758 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: was going to be the next warden. You're talking about 759 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:40,399 Speaker 1: the natural and then most depressing, definitely Midnight Express for me, 760 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 1: the Turkish prison one ye Midnight Run was pretty depressing. 761 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: And UM Animal Factory is the one I'm going to 762 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: say is the most realistic. I have not seen that one. 763 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 1: That's the one that Steve Bushimmy directed and um edward 764 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: for long and I think William Dafoe is in it. 765 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: It's really good and it's of the animal factories, so 766 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: you have a pretty good idea that it's realistic. I 767 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: saw a Taxi to the Dark Side last night, and 768 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 1: it's not. It's about the US's policies on torture and 769 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: how we implemented him post nine eleven. But there's a 770 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: lot of prison stuff in it, like Abu Grab and 771 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: bog Room and stuff like that it's pretty disturbing. Yeah, 772 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: we didn't get into I mean, there's so much about 773 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: prisons that we didn't get into. Here. We could do 774 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: like three more podcasts that we wanted to and if 775 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: it seemed like we danced around something, oh, I don't know, 776 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: Capital Punishment, Yeah, I didn't go there. That's coming. I 777 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 1: can't wait to do that one. It's gonna be sweeping. 778 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: There's gonna be top hats and like people doing like 779 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: the can can and stuff at the beginning. It's going 780 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,240 Speaker 1: to be enormous. Yeah, I think we have the rockets 781 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: lined up for that one. We do in prison Garbent. Yes, 782 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: so Chuck's telling me he's given me the double wink, 783 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: which means there is no listener mail. It was too 784 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,439 Speaker 1: long and too full of goodness. You know what that means. 785 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: That means we just haven't gotten any listener mails. So 786 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,800 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Just type some stuff 787 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:06,839 Speaker 1: out that we would find interesting. Spanking on the bottom maybe, yeah, 788 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: talk it first and uh send it to stuff podcast 789 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com for more on this 790 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works 791 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: dot com