WEBVTT - S6 Part 1 | Plastic Pipelines | Ep 4: Keeping Oil Alive 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.760 Last episode, we talked about the fossil fuel industry's plan 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.160 to make up for any revenue it might lose as 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.800 the world transitions away from its products in the residential 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:25.480 and transport sectors. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.760 Petrochemicals has become a kind of mantra for the oil 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.400 industry that thank goodness for petrochemicals, because you know, that's 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.519 where all the growth lies. And it's quite interesting if 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:40.400 you take the data now from VP and the IA, 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:46.720 probably the two leading forecasters of the entire system, then 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:50.480 from our calculations, about half the growth of oil demand 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.800 in the next twenty years in the IA numbers is 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.800 actually from plastics, and suppressingly enough, it's basically all of 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.040 the growth in oil demand today. 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:01.880 We're going to dig a bit further into the industry's 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.080 plan on this front, because just a couple of weeks 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.520 before that episode came out, a team of journalists from 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.560 the UK revealed the fruits of an undercover investigation they've 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.880 been running for years, a video and a companying article 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:21.280 in which two former high level lobbyists for Exon Mobile 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.520 walked through every step of how the company messages and 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.800 lobbies on climate policy and environmental regulations. 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:31.280 I'm Lawrence Carsa. 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:36.560 I'm an investative reporter for Unearthed, which is an investative 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.080 journalism project funded by Green based in the UK. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:45.679 Awesome, And I'm going to play a little bit from 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:50.200 the video that you guys released so that anyone who 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:52.800 hasn't seen it yet will get a bit of a 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:53.800 believer for it. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.440 This is Keith McCoy, one of exon Mobil's top Capitol 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:58.320 Hill lobbyists. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:05.720 Did we aggressively fight against uh some of the science? 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:07.480 Yes? 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.880 Did we hide our science? 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:12.880 Absolutely not? 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.040 Uh? Did we uh? Did we join some of these 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:23.080 shadow groups uh to work against uh some of the 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:28.280 early efforts. Yes, that's true, but there's nothing there's nothing 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:32.000 illegal about that. We were looking out for our investments. 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.799 We were looking out for our shareholders. And you're not 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.799 going to be able to just switch to battery operated 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:44.560 vehicles or wind for your electricity. And just having that 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:49.920 conversation around why that's not possible in the next ten years, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.359 it's critically important to the work that we do. So 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.000 and and and that's an every phase, that's that's that's it. 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.760 The Senate, that's in the House, that's with the administration. 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.480 Lawrence Carter talked to me about how they set the 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.280 whole thing up and some of the things that he 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.040 was surprised to learn. You can listen to that whole 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:11.720 interview as a bonus episode in the Feed next week. 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.639 But today we're going to share something that wasn't in 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.160 the unearthed video or story, but that was part of 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:24.320 what former excellent lobbyist Keith McCoy talked about the industry's 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:25.960 plastics playbook. 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.720 I then talked at length about how he basically said 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:36.240 that the vast majority of the American Chemistry Council's resources 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:41.360 is going into their plastics work. Yeah, keeping plastics on, 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.200 preventing bands, talking up the ability of recycling to deal 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.800 with the problem. Yeah, and that actually did you know, 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:56.880 like working on model legislation. In Keith Boy's words too, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.200 they would rather have legislation come from them, right, So 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.440 super aggressive politician. 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.360 I'm Amy Westervelt, and this is Drilled season six, the 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:15.840 Bridge to Nowhere today the continuation of Part one plastic 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:34.800 pipelines that's coming up right after this click break. 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:45.960 So they're talking about moving fracked gas as L and 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:50.440 g over to petrochemical facilities in other countries to. 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.120 Make Yeah, how important that was for their business. You know, 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:55.560 he said plastics of the future. 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:06.520 I'll quote McCoy directly here from the transcript of this conversation. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.719 He said, petrol chemicals are expanding in the United States 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.880 because of, you know, the cheap access to natural gas. 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.520 Looking at how we can make these plastics more environmentally 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.000 friendly is going to be key, because that's the next 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:22.960 big frontier. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.720 Peter McCoy talks about how they want to take this 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.120 kind of cheap feedstock. I think he refers to the Permian, 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:34.560 but I guess it if applied to Pennsylvania and actually 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:39.400 rather than manufactured plastic in the US, to turn it 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.760 into liquified natural gas and ship it over to petrochemical 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:49.880 facilities that they have in Asia and in Australia so 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:54.160 that they can crank up plastic sales in those places. 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:59.400 Okay, so we know this already. We know that cheap 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.719 natural gas is fueling a plastics boom, and that the 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.480 industry is banking on plastic to save it, and that 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:12.320 plastic recycling is basically greenwashing. But there's something different about 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.600 an oil lobbyist just come and write out and saying it. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.640 That was journalist Lawrence Carter again that you heard there. 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.839 He and his colleagues at Unearthed, an investigative outlet in 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.719 the UK that's funded by Greenpeace, set up an undercover 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:30.560 operation to get Exxon to share its playbook. Ultimately, they 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:34.280 had a reporter pose as a corporate recruiter and interviewed 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:39.040 two high level Exon staffers who had recently left. That 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.359 reporter asked the men all kinds of questions about the 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:47.559 company's strategy, and they answered in great detail. After we talked, 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:49.680 Carter sent me a transcript of the part of the 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:54.279 conversation between his undercover reporter and former ex On lobbyist 0:06:54.320 --> 0:07:00.240 Keith McCoy that focused on plastic. It's fourteen pages long, 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.159 just to give you an idea of how much time 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:09.080 he's spent talking about Exon's plastic strategy. In that conversation, 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.920 McCoy said that all the Exon petrochemical facilities that are 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.320 being retooled or that are just now being built are 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:22.440 geared toward plastics. He says, quote, we see that as 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.160 a big business, a growing business, but the issue is 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.640 going to be disposal and recycling of plastics. And then 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.400 he explains that to deal with the pesky problem of 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.920 disposal and recycling of plastics. Exon is working with the 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.880 American Chemistry Council. Here's a snippet from one of the 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.040 many American Chemistry Council videos about how plastics aren't a 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.000 problem and recycling is working just fine. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:57.400 Plastics, our society demands their benefits and an environment free 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:02.240 of plastic waste. Recycling helps keep plastics out of our 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:07.360 oceans and environment, but traditional recycling technologies have some limitations. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.440 While mechanical recycling can handle most bottles and containers, today's 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:17.640 light weight packaging designs are a bit trickier. Fortunately, emerging 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.720 and innovative technologies can repurpose these plastics into new and 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:22.840 useful products. 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.760 And again keep in mind here that right now the 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:31.280 industry's plan is to shift whatever fossil fuels we manage 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.479 to stop using in cars and homes over to plastic. 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.719 So what we're talking about here comes with both immediate 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:43.600 and long term consequences. There's the immediate environmental scourge of 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:48.040 plastic waste. Less than ten percent of it is actually recycled, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.440 it never breaks down in the environment, and it is 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.800 filling up and poisoning our oceans. The birds and marine 0:08:55.880 --> 0:09:00.000 life that survive off of them and many other waterways. 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.720 And there's the air and water pollution associated directly with 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:08.640 the facilities that make plastic and with the fossil fuel 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:14.440 infrastructure required to feed into those factories. And then there's 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.200 the climate impact. Here's Carol Muffett, President and CEO of 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.800 the Center for International Environmental Law. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.080 Again, and if you look specifically at the refineries and 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:29.880 the crackers, even in the completely hypothetical, mythical world where 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:34.040 you were where you were fueling those refineries and crackers 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.400 with one hundred percent renewable energy, which is not possible 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.640 within the footprint of the plants, you'd still only cut 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.240 the emissions in half because the chemical processes themselves are 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.920 so greenhouse gas intensive. And this becomes particularly important when 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.640 you recognize that, because of the success of the growth 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.720 of renewable energy, within the next couple of years, the 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.560 industrial sector will surpass the power sector as the primary 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.920 source of greenhouse gas emissions in this country. 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.760 And just like with climate change, the fossil fuel industry 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:12.360 has known about the various environmental impacts of plastic for decades, 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:14.880 at least since the sixties. 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.120 Just as we did with the oil and gas crisis. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.840 We've begun to look at what did the industry know 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:26.280 about what was happening to plastics in the environment. And 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.959 what we've found, and we've published some of this research 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.720 and there's more to come, was that it was very 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.760 clear from the very early stages that plastics were showing 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:38.920 up in the environment, showing up in the ocean, showing 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:42.520 up in water ways, from certainly the nineteen sixties onward. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.160 In the late nineteen fifties and the sixties, research funded 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.480 by the oil industry to look at oil spills and 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.920 oil pollution in the Gulf of Mexico kept finding oil 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.120 related toxics adhering to plastic that was floating the water, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:05.880 trading and raising the first evidence that plastics actually tend 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:10.960 to accumulate and concentrate other environmental toxins and become vectors 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:11.840 for those toxics. 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:17.280 So industry knew that plastic was bad news in waterways, 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.959 and it also knew that plastic doesn't break down. 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.760 Ever, it becomes equally clear that the industry was aware 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:29.360 that plastics wouldn't break down in landfills, wouldn't break down 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:35.679 an environment. And there's this rather remarkable, rather remarkable o 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:41.400 ed from a plastic industry executive from the nineteen sixties, 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.960 where he argues, yes, we know it won't break down 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.520 in landfills. We consider that a feature. 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:46.839 Not a bug. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.000 It'll provide stability to the landfill. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.720 Now, public awareness and concern around the plastic problem is growing, 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.280 and according to lobbyist Keith McCoy, the fossil fuel industry 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.600 will use the same tax here that it used on 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:09.319 climate change. Here's how he laid it out. You want 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:12.240 to get smart on it, right, because you know it's coming, 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:16.160 so you want to get It's just like on climate change, right. 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.640 So when climate change came, well it's here. But well 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:24.240 when it started, you started to have conversations to say, well, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.360 you can't completely change the electric grid from coal and 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:32.680 gas into wind and here's why. It's the same conversation. 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:38.199 You can't ban plastics because here's why. Or you can't recycle, 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.520 you know, or legislate one hundred percent recycling because here's why. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:48.880 It's just not technologically feasible. So that's the public messaging. 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.439 When it comes to Congress, McCoy says, they look for solutions. 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.280 They can talk about ways to maybe change the chemistry 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.520 to make plastics slightly more recyclable, or laws that would 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.679 need to change to make one hundred percent recycling feasible, 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:09.200 ideally laws that would be too far reaching and too 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:15.080 complicated for Congress to actually change. He says, I would 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.440 love something like that to say, look, we're happy to 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:22.800 do one hundred percent recycling, we think it's technologically feasible, 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.520 but as an example, interstate commerce clause prevents us from 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.000 doing it. I don't know if that's true, but you know, 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.120 having that type of conversation, like you have to change 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.480 the interstate commerce clause because that prevents us from carrying 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:44.200 plastic across state lines or something. Yeah, what a gift 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.560 that would be, right. The scary thing here is that 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.880 it's not just Exxon or the oil industry. It's also 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.960 the chemical industry, which has been in the lobbying and 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.839 spin game just as long and just as successfully as 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:05.200 fossil fuel. It's like an industry voltron, which is why 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.760 this idea that the plastic problem is a distraction from 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.960 the climate problem or just about making different consumer choices 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.880 is so off base. Here's Muffett again. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:22.760 For a long time, the fight against plastics was presented 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.360 as something that was ultimately about suburban moms, you know, 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.160 impressing each other with not using straws. 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:31.000 It really was. 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.280 Yeah, But that argument breaks down when you go to 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:40.760 the Philippines and you look at how plastics there are 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.920 affecting human rights. It breaks down when you see mountains 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.960 of waste piled up in India. It breaks down when 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:53.480 you talk to fishermen from Louisiana and Texas who are 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:58.160 pulling plastic out of their bays and out of their fish. Yeah, 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.280 and it really, really fun namentally breaks down when you 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.640 talk to the people who are living in the shadows 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:08.600 of the fracking wells and the and the crackers. Plastics 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.080 are one of the highest admitting of all industrial sectors, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.720 and they're also the most rapidly growing, and on their 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.600 present trajectory, you know, they could contribute fifty six gigatons 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.920 of carbon to the global atmosphere about twenty fifty. But 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:28.400 Exxon and Chevron and API and the American Chemistry Council 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.120 will go on asking you, well, are you turning off 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.200 your lights? Are you buying the electric cars that are 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.920 only just now becoming available and are still only barely affordable. 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.800 That's it for this episode. Next time, we'll head back 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.520 to the Gulf Coast to check in on Diane and Sharon, 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.680 who are still holding the line against the petrochemical boom. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:16:05.160 There come back for that. Drilled is an original production 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:10.120 of the Critical Frequency Podcast Network. The show is reported, written, 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.800 and hosted by me Amy Westervelt. Our producer this season 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.240 is Juliana Bradley. Our editor is Julia Ritchie. Our theme 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.480 song this season is Death Song by b Bemon. Additional 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.480 music for the season composed by Elliott Peltzman. Our artwork 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.440 for the season is done by Matthew Fleming. Our First 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.400 Amendment attorney is James Wheaton at the First Amendment Project. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.840 You can find additional reporting and photos for this season 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.200 on our Twitter feed at We Are Drilled or online 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:46.080 at drillednews dot com. If you're a fan of the show, 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:50.680 please consider supporting us in two ways. One, if you 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.360 want to spend some money and get some extra bonus 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.360 content at early episodes, check out our Patreon at patreon 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.080 dot com slash Drilled. You can also support us. 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.359 By giving us a rating or review in Apple Podcasts. 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:08.520 It really helps us by new listeners and combat the 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.800 army of climate gnera trolls that are constantly trying to 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:12.920 tank our ratings. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.000 Thanks for doing that, and we'll see you next week.