WEBVTT - From Debt to Society 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:05.160 Microphone. Chuck, you're listening to waiting on reparations and production 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:10.560 of I Heart Radio one to want to factor chandelier 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:22.599 on the beach. Oh yeah, uh yeah yo yo Yo, 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.840 I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, who the hell is 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.720 this calling me? A waken me up at night in 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:34.280 my slumber looking at my phone. I don't recognize this number, Yo, 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.720 I can't say it. I'm looking at that ship. I 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.000 think of Bill. They want me to pay it. I'm like, 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.640 funk that. I don't know who they're trying to find, yo, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.800 because I don't even know nobody who live in Ohio. 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.840 So now I gotta ducking dodge you probably getting another 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.000 job that want to get my neck? No battle, what's 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.640 the cost? He collectors? I ain't paying you ship. Telly 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.400 May Yeah, she stay on my dick. These niggas be 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.720 up in my damns. She said. He trying to reap 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.600 hiss my priest. But I'd be sipping orange so that 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.760 like my name was Keenan. You have to notice how 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.520 everyone you used to vote, and all your family and 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.119 your friends where y'all got the student loans. Everybody shares 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.240 the pain. It's not just you a loan. That's while 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.280 we always write these robs and give you all this 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.000 moving pole. Imagine you're pulled over in the car for 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.520 the map. You're the curse of the police to get 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.160 fucking charged with the threat. You come the book and 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.000 swept inside the carseral net. So now you got this 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.560 lawyer fees and finds carsoral debt. But if we all 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.400 came together about the hundred thousands, we could get them 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.200 to cancel all the mortgages on the houses. But it's 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.480 only possible if you're willing to be loud and too 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:46.920 people know you're done with that, no longer allow it. Yeah, 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.560 fuck yeah, it's dope, knife, I'm legal, Francay. We are 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:57.000 waiting on reparations. That was that was fired that I 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.080 was still basking a little bit and forgot to say, 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:03.840 Harry up, it's all good. So how you been, man, Man, 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.760 I've been good. Yeah, just same. We'll keeping up on 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:13.000 this election fiasco while you know, trying to do my thing. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.960 But geez, you know, it's almost like you can't even 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:21.080 really make any plans right now until the election gets resolved. 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.200 So that's kind of where I'm at right now. When's 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.480 that going to be I mean, I'm at least talking 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.160 about election night. I mean, who knows how long that 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:34.760 mess that old pipe dream which one election night? No, 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.880 I mean you know what, I don't know. I don't 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.080 know now with the with the new poll numbers, I 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.480 mean obviously none of this matters. Every you know, people 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.480 gotta vote, you know, so poll numbers don't mean ship. 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.200 But right now it's looking like he might not even 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.040 really be able to achieve. But you know he's gonna try. 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.000 But I'm just saying, and revised my previous statement in 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.480 that on election night, we should know who are new 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.320 d A is. We shouldn't know who our senators are 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.880 going to be, and that's definitely matters. Does stuff really 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.400 really matters to take back the Senate? We have somebody 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.360 who in Athens a least is going to be pushing 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.600 for a sort of justice practices and for you know, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.000 not prosecuting like minor drug offenses and ship like that. 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.160 That's the ship y'all gotta get out and vote for. 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.680 It's like the down ballot races are the really important ones. 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:24.520 If you want to see, like you know what I'm saying, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:29.000 the real change happened. Yeah, like your carseral debt. We're 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.600 talking about debt this week. If you're thinking about your 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:35.040 lawyer fees you gotta pay and the fines you still 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.640 owe the courts in the county and uh all that ship. 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.920 That ship is not determined by who your president is. 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.720 That's determined by who your d a ends up being, 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:48.720 whether or not you go to jail for smoking weed 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.000 or I don't know, doing doing a little math talking 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:57.160 about debt, I mean, even the president of debt. I 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.480 can't believe. I don't even know if we were prepared 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.840 to get into that in this episode, but we absolutely 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.400 should not much to get into. President owes hundreds of 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.160 millions of dollars and barely paid any taxes in the 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.040 last ten years. Not much more to it. I gotta 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.160 pay my I got six grand. I gotta pay my 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.640 payoff on my car. I know friends that are still 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:22.880 paying off on like d uys from almost a decade ago. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.200 So and and here we have a president who just 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.760 received world class medical care, the best medical care you 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.200 can probably receive in the entire world, without having to 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.760 pay a single penny. Thinking about how many people go 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.920 into medical bankruptcy every year. You want to know what's 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:45.160 even more wild, think about this. He didn't even pay 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.600 for that ship. You did, like literally because this is 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.200 this is like like he just got government run healthcare, 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:57.120 not government run health insurance. He got government run healthcare. 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.479 Doctors are paid by the st the state. The lights 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.960 were kept on on the crystal chandelier and his executive 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.280 suite by the state, by us, by me, and you 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.159 damn sure wasn't eager to drop any ducats on that ship. 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:18.279 Then Nicka paid yeah, nothing, nothing. So all we're asking 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:20.840 for is for all of us to receive that. I mean, 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.159 I don't even need the chandelier, I don't even need 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.640 the sixth room suite and the best doctor. Give me 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:31.599 a decent doctor for free. Fucking I'm there, I'm in. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.640 But that's what we're talking about this week, using our 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.240 debts to organize for a better world where we all 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.000 have access to free healthcare, we all have access to 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.600 free college and things like that. We are so this 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.600 week we speak with Astra Taylor and author, documentarian, organizer 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.200 with the decollective debt affects all of us, from those 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.800 who make it big and mismanage their money and lose 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.600 it all to those of us who've never had any 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.920 in the first place, and the decollective offers a radical 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.479 new organizing strategy for racing these that's and establishing a 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.200 new societal order where debt doesn't exist at all. So 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.160 before we talk with Astro, we're gonna go through a 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:14.640 couple of interesting stats and facts about debt in America 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.360 and this debt based economy and what hip hop has 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:31.520 had to say about it. All Right, So, per Business Insider, 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:36.560 the average American debt totals fifty one thousand, nine hundred dollars, 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:40.760 and that includes mortgage loans, home equity, lines of credit, 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:45.560 auto loans, credit card debts, student loans, and personal loans. 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.880 Student loan debt in is now about one point five 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.960 six trillion dollars. The latest student loan debt statistics from 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.240 show how serious the student loan debt crisis has become 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.960 for borrowers across all age demographics and age groups. Therefore 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.080 five million borrowers who collectively owe almost one point six 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.680 trillion dollars and student loan death in the US. Research 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.680 shows that about a hundred and thirty seven point one 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.520 million Americans have faced financial hardship because of medical costs. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.000 According to a two thousand nineteen survey conducted by Gallup 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.760 in the nonprofit West Health, Americans borrowed and estimated eighty 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.840 eight billion dollars last year to pay for healthcare. In 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.640 two thousand seventeen, the United States spent about three point 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.440 five trillion dollars, or eighteen percent of the GDP, on 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.960 health expenditures, more than twice the average among developed countries. 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.240 Of that three point five trillion dollars, one point five 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:42.120 trillion is directly or indire actually financed by the federal government. 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:47.160 Prison parole and probation operations generate about eighty one billion 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.320 dollars in annual costs of the u S taxpayer, while 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.240 police court costs, bail bonds fee, and prison phone fees 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.240 generate another hundred billion dollars in court costs, and those 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.600 are paid by the individual. And so I've read a 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.880 lot about out the way that like there's private companies 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:08.760 that UH contract out to provision UH monitor ankle bracelets 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.840 to people on probation or house arrest, and they have 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.040 to then pay every month. And this is like an 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.000 extra bill if they if they fall behind on paying 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.080 the company for their ankle monitor they can get sent 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.720 back to jail. And so these cars rule forms of 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.240 debt the you know, in addition to bail bonds, fees 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.880 or court costs um but all of these things were 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:35.160 involved with like probation and house arrest and like being 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.400 on parole, like with like paying your roll officer and 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.719 things like that. Like in the fact that you can 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.720 get sent back to jail if you don't pay them 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:47.559 are like a really ominous and like a cruel form 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.720 of debt that we put people into a country like 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.720 that that it's like ship like that is why I'm 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:59.960 not overly harsh on people who believe like wild conspiracy 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.679 theories and ship like that, because the ship just seems deliberate. 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.360 You know what I'm saying. It feels like in this 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:11.960 net that it's just like layers upon layers of deliberate 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:16.640 fuckering to just make life as uncomfortable as it can 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.480 possibly be. Said, A chill go down my spine. But 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.800 do you likened like believing we live in this net 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.120 to like a conspiracy theory? I was like, this isn't 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:31.000 just what everyone believes. It's not everyone realized you live 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.520 in this net where they're trying to drag us down 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:37.760 deeper and deeper. Would you would you say, it's commonly 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:44.360 known that police, uh you utilize citations and the revenues 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.319 they generate from that, and a lot of money from 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.760 us and like little ways, not just from the president 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.040 industrial complex, but just general revenue from finals and fees 0:09:56.240 --> 0:10:01.280 and uh forfeitures so a. Porting to a national database 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.959 compiled by Governing magazine, at least five hundred and eighty 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:09.480 three cities and towns have collected ten or more of 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:14.880 their general fund revenue from fines and forfeitures. Among those jurisdictions, 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:19.120 eighty relied on fines to generate over half their budget revenue. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:24.520 Most of those municipalities came from just four states, Georgia, Texas, Louisiana, 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.800 and Oklahoma. Yeah. I mean, if if Athens were you 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.920 collect ten percent of our general fund revenue from fine 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.560 cent forfitures, that'd be about thirty million dollars. Not that 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.360 I I should know if that's true, but I don't 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.000 think it's that bad here um. According to the New 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.000 York FEDS Household Debt and Credit Report from the fourth 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.280 quarter of two thousand nineteen, Americans owed one point three 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:54.800 three trillion dollars in outstanding vehicle debt. So financing these cars, 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.320 I mean, not even these fancy cars. We live in 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:02.959 such a car centric like infrastructure spear that just to live, 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.600 you gotta go into debt to buy a car, just 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.040 to be able to get to work. Like your car 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.000 breaks down, you lose your job because you don't have 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.720 a stable form of transportation anymore. That means you can't 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.679 pay rent, which means you become homeless, which means then 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.199 you lose your kids, like you have, Like having a 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:26.280 car is so critical, and so many like having a car. 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.439 It's like how many Yeah, so you have to Like 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.280 you're you're paying your car off month after month, You've 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:36.559 got your monthly payment, and then all you accidentally, like 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.320 you get hit and then you've gotta and your insurance 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.520 won't cover it, and now you gotta pay five hundred 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:46.280 dollars and you already have like a three five car 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.280 payment every month, and your insurance costs every month, and 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.840 now you can't even use the car that you own, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.760 but you still owe the fucking bank for it. That's 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:57.680 one of my worst fears, not the worst, but like 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.360 I think about it, So these are all topics I mean, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:09.320 from financing cars to financings moans that many rappers have 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.800 touched on. And I just want to bring up how 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.040 uniquely touched by this the hip hop generation is because 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.080 older generations have, like I really feel like they have 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:20.960 no idea what it's like to be this and debt. 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.000 They grew up when they could get cheap loans for 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:27.800 houses to the Federal Housing Administration. College cost near to 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:32.320 nothing before Reagan us to be graduated thousands in debt 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.920 into her reception. For the love of God, the prison 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.480 industry didn't boom until then eight to the eighties and nineties, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.319 So all these fucking boomers got to like do all 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.960 the drugs imaginable without being swept into the car sinoral 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.760 net and you know, saddle with all these fines and 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:55.480 fees and this debt, and then us we're just fucked spucks, 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.319 and so like, I feel like, why perhaps in our 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:13.440 investigation of like the lyric escape for this episode, there 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.280 wasn't as much reference to debt as I might have 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.120 imagined given these realities. I mean, I think it speaks 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.280 to hip hop somewhat as well, that like people don't 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.200 want to flosol, they don't got They don't want to 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.280 like flaunt what they lack, so like they're not I mean, 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.920 they might be talking about getting out of debt, but 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:31.839 they're not going to be like I gotta leave it 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.360 on my car. But it's kind of like when we 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.840 were talking about labor, you know, it's just it's just 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.040 one of those no one to the fact they work 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:45.440 at dairy queen exactly. It's not necessarily I guess trope 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:46.959 would be the right word to use for it. It's 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.440 not necessarily a trope that's used in hip hop, the 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.680 trope of like, um, well, maybe I should say mainstream 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.960 hip hop, because you know what they're you know, I do, 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.480 like you said, not necessarily rapping about being in But 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.959 I definitely used to know a lot of indiects used 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.680 to wrap about being broke. Yeah, and then we have 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.560 a good example today, life and debt from Seattle spreaders, 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.640 blue scholars. I mean, they're more conscious for apperis and 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:18.520 music and lyrics frequently focus on struggles with socioeconomic classes 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:24.440 challenging authority. UM often rooted in the MC geologic history 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.800 as an activist within the Filipino American community, dealing with 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.960 issues immigration, racism, US imperialism the Philippines. But in This 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:38.240 Life and Debt, they talk explicitly about working class struggles 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.200 like working a nine to five, eight hours a day, 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:47.240 coming home, your bills are late, your interest accumulates, collection agency, 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:51.240 waits paycheck to paycheck. Let's listen a little bit of 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:58.800 this time working five. Sometimes they also find it really 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.480 interesting that they have a subtle critique of like the 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.000 nonprofit industrial complex. At one point, he says, uh, five 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:11.080 oh one c three community plantations, non nonprofit sector propped 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.400 up to kill the movement for the changes in production relations. 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.680 So he's talking about how like these charities that are 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.960 meant to like you know, aid the poor really aren't 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.440 impacting like the power dynamics and society or like who 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.120 controls like the profits of like the working classes labor 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.800 and Uh. I just thought that was really interesting, I mean, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.280 especially with relation to like this idea of debt that 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:41.479 we're talking about today, where so many things are privatized, education, 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:48.000 housing market, getting a car, uh, healthcare that where we 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.280 will rely on like the we're like we as the needy, 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.080 like rely on nonprofits, like oh may I have some 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.760 more please, like for the food banks and the diaper 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.480 banks and the job skills training and the the homeless 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:07.080 shelters when it's not really like organizing us to push 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.960 back on the fact that it's just really a rich, 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.240 greedy fox are the reason why we don't don't have 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:18.720 in the first place. Yea, for whatever reason. I don't 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.480 know why. But the part where he's like, but woman, 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.640 you're my comrade, ride or die and the revolution making 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.880 other earth standing with me in the grocery line, I 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.760 don't know why. I just love that you're my comrade part. 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.880 Just with the the whole tone of the song, it 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.000 just kind of gives it like this sort of socialist flare. 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.560 This is like, I don't know if that's what you've 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:40.120 been by it, but I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.000 take it. Just another observation about the song. This is 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.880 definitely one of those sort of songs and you probably 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:48.840 could hear it when you heard the little snippet, but 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.040 it's like, if you put it on, it's definitely something 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.880 that could just be on and you would wouldn't even 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.360 think twice about what it's about. You just kind of 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.280 that's a pleasant song. Samples and the dramatics like like 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.440 that but then it's one of those ones were upon 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.320 closer listening, you're like, oh, ship this is about Then 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.919 what's the name of this that mass political, educational potential 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.680 of hip hop? Or you just put the song on 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.920 maybe twenty times in the car, then it like gradually 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:22.320 radicalizes you just slowly. Yeah. Then we got New York 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.320 rappers Sammy's with Schools Out. A lot of rappers touch 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.720 on particularly issue of student loans. I feel like a 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.240 lot of like the post hip hop generation, not the 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.080 first people to grow up with hip hop, but like 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.280 the second generation of people grow up with hip hop. 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.480 A lot of us grew up, we graduated into a 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.520 recession where it's become difficult to make those payments on 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:47.320 the education we just received. Um. And so SAMs is 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.920 one of many rappers that touches on the money that 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:56.560 we all fucking Oh Sally, may students tap for another 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.800 year at a name at home need to sneak around 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.040 in the middle, Like you were talking about the generational 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.960 divide in how we perceived debt to be and in 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.640 her in the beginning of a verse, she was mentioning 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.679 living at home with your parents because of student loans, 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.879 and that's kind of something that I think is you know, 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.520 for people in our generation, is a lot more of 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:24.400 a common theme and feeling like, I know, like my parents, 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.880 Like the notion of oh, someone who's a grown man 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.160 or woman moving back in with their parents still has 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.600 a certain taboo to it, whereas for our generations, like, yo, 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.000 you know how many bills we got, Like that just 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.120 might be the necessity of hell bills our parents got 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.880 and they're like, hey, why don't you stay living at 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.200 home with me? She later in the song talks about 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:48.639 how she had to buy a new MacBook and like 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.400 the need to like have access to really expensive technology 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.440 just to like access to your access to your workforce, 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:01.040 access to your schooling right now, etcetera. And so it's 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.560 like so many bills following up in addition to as 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.760 she references just purely what you got to pay to 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.639 get your credit hours and build up your network to 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.719 try to get a good job when you get out 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:19.440 of school. You mentioned how she references Sally May, which 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:24.080 is a common reference in hip hop. Very yeah. So 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:29.720 from Rhapsody to oil A Deonte Hitchcock, Big Cred Corday 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.600 all over the place. In fact, in Corday has been around, 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.320 uh he has. He does this interesting thing where he 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.080 sort of he's like sort of just like Braggadoccio, a rhyman. 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.280 But then he has this moment where he jumps back 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.040 to like seeing I think in the I pertect, I 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:49.159 interpreted it as the perspective of a fan. Although it 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.880 might seem so bittersweet when you ain nothing to eat 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:53.560 and Sally may call him a phone for like the 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.879 fifth time this week and all your bills are overdue, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.880 Like I know, we stop talking about himself there, let's 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.040 hear that. It's like, yeah, that's the sting would seem 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.360 a sweet you ain't got nothing to eat, Sally make 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.320 call your phone for Like the fib I misinterpreted that 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.240 maybe it is talking about himself. I mean, it sounds 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:11.880 like he's talking about himself. But I mean, even if 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.160 it isn't, it's kind of like a universal feeling. I mean, 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.000 it's it's like you're saying, everybody has that feeling. It 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.280 could be he knows somebody and he's just drawing from 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.880 somebody else's experience, but either way, it it totally makes 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.320 sense with who he is being. Yea, it's got that 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.080 kind of like backpack realness. I feel like backpackers are 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.800 like a little more straight up about like he yo, 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.880 I'm working on a dairy quean. Well, yeah, I mean 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:43.960 the backpack or indie aesthetic is kind of geared around 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.639 just being more earnest and realistic with what your circumstances 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.239 are as far as what you draw from to, you know, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.200 to inspire you to write your rhymes and stuff like that. 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:01.679 So Lacoari has a similarly like, uh, how should I 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.120 say this, like pensive vibe on this song. Well, let's 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.600 listen to it first. This is always new by La 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.320 Craz professes couple of thousands and graduated in recession. Sadly 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.320 may just want to check it, expressing us it's on 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.719 a tree now, I'm in a session. The very thing 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.520 I'm talking about, like this debate about whether or not 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:22.760 we should go to school and try to get an education. 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.840 It's like worth it. We never saw ourselves there, we go, 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.120 we leave thousands and debts. How it may is calling 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.120 stressing out and then chasing music as like the way 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:37.919 to finally make it out of this situation, even if 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:43.200 not even necessarily that is, uh, how having the chain 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:47.600 of something like you're the debt of getting your education. 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.399 How that can prevent you from pursuing things that you 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:52.560 would rather be pursuing, you know what I'm saying. So, 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.520 I mean, whether that be music or maybe whatever, you know, 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:58.840 it's just it's it's a fucking burden. It's a it's 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:00.720 another thing you have to do, you because it's like, 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.639 I know, I know cats who who were trying to 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:11.320 do their art but did the full Monty full ride 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:15.760 through school, you know, and getting out. It's like they 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.440 don't really have time to funk around. They gotta immediately 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.840 start paying that ship back. So like pursuing something fun, 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.359 you know, it's not necessarily in the cards anymore. So 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:28.560 we got another song that's kind of actually fun in 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:34.800 celebratory in that the the protagonist uh is really excited 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.359 about having paid off Sally May. And this is Sally 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:48.600 made Back by Do You Want the White Lady? Yeah, 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.880 So I really love that Sally May And this music 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:57.560 video it's depicted as the stern, older, suburban looking woman 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:02.560 black nails, which oh fucking funny, because that's absolutely how 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.600 I picture Sally May office before I got it in 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:09.040 my mind, as like a sufficient enough adult to realize 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:12.480 like Sally May wasn't like a living person to like, 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.560 we know money. I was like, oh man, this fucking 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.880 pitch while he has like an ascot. So the next 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:23.600 song that we got is World, World, Let's go a 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.040 little Sally May reference that. I think it's energy we 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:30.119 need to keep regarding our debts in the spirit of 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:33.520 the de collective. So when he says he talks about, 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:35.520 you know, making a lot of money off of shows, 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:39.399 maybe then I could pick Sali mate, So I'll be 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:45.920 dealing with some real like we're not. So that's the 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:48.200 energy that we need for the same energy be we'll 0:23:48.320 --> 0:24:04.879 keep for our landlords. I am so excited today to 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:11.640 be talking to Astra Taylor, author, organizer, documentarian, and fellow 0:24:11.800 --> 0:24:15.840 former Athenian, which I think is actually how I came 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:19.479 to know about your work. I was at the Nation 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.520 offices in Manhattan in two thousand eighteen, uh meeting with 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:27.480 their editorial board, and upon leaving, they said, oh, we 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.520 have this book from this woman from Athens that we 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.200 want to give you as a gift, and it was 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:38.040