1 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. There's something about wintertime 2 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: in the Deep South. It can be cool outside, but 3 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: still the sun warns your face. On Februar and two, 4 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: lady was out walking her dog along country lane in 5 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: rural Georgia, one of those places that's got pine trees 6 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: on either side of the road, beautiful cobalt blue skies 7 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: above her. Not a care in the world. Now, She's 8 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: walking along with her dog and enjoying the perfect day. 9 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: She looks over to her right and she notices something 10 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: glinting in the sun. It's a human skull, bleached white. 11 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: Lord only knows how long it had been there. That 12 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: discovery by that woman led to one of the most 13 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: horrific events in the history of the state of Georgia. 14 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs with 15 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: me today is my good friend Jackie Howard, executive producer 16 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, have you ever 17 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: heard about anything like this in your entire life? And 18 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Try State Crematory. No, Joe, I 19 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: have not. It has been, as you said, twenty years 20 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: since this gruesome discovery was made in February of two 21 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: thousand two, nearly three hundred and fifty decomposing bodies were 22 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: found on the property of a crematori um in Noble, 23 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: Georgia that is up in the mountains of North Georgia, 24 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: up above Rome. It's a very small town and the 25 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: Try State Crematorium had been in business since the early 26 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: seventies and it served a number of funeral homes in Georgia, 27 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: Alabama in Tennessee. What was found was, instead of performing 28 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 1: services that he was hired to do, the owner, Ray 29 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 1: Brent Marsh, would not perform the cremation services, but rather 30 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: he just stacked bodies and stored the bodies there on 31 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: the property. Families were given concrete in the urns they requested, 32 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: they did not receive the remains of their family and 33 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: loved ones. And I have so many questions for you, Joe, 34 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: but what I want to start off with is talking 35 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: about cremation. Most people really don't understand it other than 36 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: to know that bodies are burned. So what is cremation 37 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: and how our bodies prepared to be cremated? Yeah, Jackie, 38 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: you know the public at large as no interest in it. Well, 39 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: let me rephrase that the public at large doesn't want 40 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: to know anything about it, because it's absolutely gruesome when 41 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: you begin to talk about it. You know, you think 42 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: about the total and complete development of a human remain 43 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: to get it rendered down into uh ash all that's 44 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: left behind. And you know, you you take a body 45 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: and after it's been rendered down, you can put it 46 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: into an urn. And many people have them in their homes. 47 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: But how do you get to that point? And let 48 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: me dispel one thing right up front, Um, not every 49 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: funeral home has a crematory. This is a very specific operation. 50 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, you have to meet very 51 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: stringent e p A standards in order to operate one 52 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: owned and operate one. And so what happens in the 53 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: funeral industry is that you will have a regular funeral 54 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: home and they will essentially subcontract with a crematory that 55 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: will perform this function. Now once, once these bodies are 56 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: received at the crematory, they're prepared simply um by placing 57 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: the body on essentially a conveyor belt, and they're conveyed 58 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: into this giant crematory which you know, for lack of 59 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: a better term, it's a huge oven. Is essentially what 60 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: it is. Now, what makes it so effective is that 61 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: it is completely sealed, all right. And when it's sealed 62 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: within this environment, there are these little gas jets that 63 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: are positioned all around the interior of this thing. And 64 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: what happens is it's supplied by natural gas like a 65 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: gas line that's running into the crematory. This thing is 66 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: initiated and it has to remain sustained at a temperature 67 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: of about sevent eight hundred degrees fahrenheit for a protracted 68 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: period of time. Now understand that the length of time 69 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: that a cremation takes is many times totally and completely 70 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: dependent upon the size of the body. Let's just be 71 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: very frankier. If you've got a very small person, it's 72 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: not gonna take as long as it would be for 73 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: somebody that is, uh say, very very large. So there 74 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: is some skill involved in this. Now, once the body 75 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: is essentially rendered down in the crematory, it is belt 76 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: fed out out of the oven itself and it goes 77 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: through an auger if you will just imagine a great 78 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: turning screw um and this will make the What it 79 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:41,119 Speaker 1: does is it actually reduces the larger burned pieces down 80 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: to a particulate uh particular remain which is powdered almost 81 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: And you know, because you have to understand that, for instance, 82 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: when you're talking about bone, the bone is not resilient 83 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: as resilient as teeth. For instance, teeth are not bone. 84 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,119 Speaker 1: Teeth will survive a cremation many times. So the idea 85 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: is to try to render it down as far as 86 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: you possibly can. And to the untrained eye, most people 87 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: would not be able to um be able to discern 88 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: between say something that they're told is a cremine, and 89 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: that's the term that's actually used, like remains if a 90 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: body has been cremated, they're referred to as cremines. Uh 91 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: that and concrete dust, which in the case of Ray 92 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: Brant Marsh, he was actually taking concrete dust and filling 93 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: earns with them and giving us back to families. Now 94 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, in addition to that, it is stated that 95 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: he would burn wood periodically to kind of render it 96 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: down as well, to give it a kind of a 97 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: charret appearance, and he would commingle mix that with this 98 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: concrete dust, seal it up and hand it back to 99 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: the family and say here the cremins of your loved one. 100 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: So after the body is rendered down, Joe, is everything 101 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: including the bones and teeth decimated. Yeah, yeah, it is, Jackie, 102 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons that that it will 103 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,679 Speaker 1: go through this auguring process. There there will be larger 104 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: pieces that still remain, but they're very fragile. So the 105 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: auger after it's you know, after these cremaines have passed 106 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: through the oven, will go through the auger process and 107 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: it will render them down even further to the point 108 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,119 Speaker 1: where they're powdered. All right, and we're talking about things 109 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: like mone we're talking about things like teeth, so uh, 110 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: that that enables the operator to actually take this dust, 111 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: if you will, and it is dust. It's very very 112 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: fine um. For folks at home that don't know or 113 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: have a hard time conceptualizing this literally if you will, Uh, 114 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: the next time you're around baby powder, talcum powder, just 115 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: take some of that and render it out into your hand. 116 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: And crim means are generally just a tad bitten more 117 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: coarse than talcum powder. So yeah, it reduces it all 118 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: the way down. Is it white or gray white? Like 119 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: we think of having, you know, ash from your fireplace. 120 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: Generally it's gonna have some level of carbon in it, 121 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: So it will have. It will be more gray if 122 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: you will, and sometimes you can pick up on um 123 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: kind of darker elements that will appear black. But there 124 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: it's very particulate. The fire burns at such a high 125 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: rate and for such a sustained period of time that 126 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: most of the time these the elements that are left 127 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: behind are going to have kind of a gray appearance. 128 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: It's not gonna be white like talc or like snow. 129 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: It will have kind of a gray appearance to them. 130 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:46,479 Speaker 1: So let's just say an average body six ft uh, 131 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, two hundre pounds. How long is that 132 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: going to take? I mean, are we talking about days 133 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: and days? I know you talked about it's obviously going 134 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: to be different with the child as far as an adult, 135 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: but just in general about how long does it take 136 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: our person? Because we have so many bodies here that 137 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: we're not cremated, I'm just trying to get an idea 138 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: of if they had been, how much time would that 139 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: have taken. Well, you can probably account. You know, you 140 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: have to think about prep, you know, what has to 141 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: go into this, uh, taking the body down to the 142 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: bare essence. Some of these bodies will in fact have 143 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: been autopsy perhaps, and you may have had and people 144 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 1: don't realize this, you may have had bodies that had 145 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: previously been embombed while uh in order to preserve them. So, 146 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: you know, while families begin to try to think, you know, 147 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: lots of times families can't make like a snap decision 148 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: at the time of death. So sometimes bodies funeral homes 149 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: will go ahead in bomb bodies and then the family 150 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: will say, you know what, I think that we're gonna 151 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: go ahead and go down the cremation route. So with 152 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: that said, every case it is going to be variable. 153 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: You begin to think about bone density again, you know, 154 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: tissue thickness, all these sorts of things. But on average 155 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: it's going to take you roughly one to two hours 156 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: in order to render body completely down. Okay, what about 157 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: metal in your body fillings, um implants, screws from accidents 158 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: that have been repaired, you know, break your leg, you 159 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: get a screw, right, metals like that, Yeah, and you'll 160 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: you'll still have things like pins that are put in 161 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: from surgery. You know, some of these things are stainless steel, 162 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: and they'll still be a remnant of that. Many times 163 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: the operators will go through and they will pick out 164 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: these items. And one of the things that actually is 165 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 1: very interesting about the this case, you know, aside from 166 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: how horrific it is, is that it has been stated 167 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: by Ray Brent Marsh's attorney on a couple of occasions 168 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: that he and his father, who had previously UH operated 169 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: this facility to try state crematory, they have been exposed 170 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: to fillings and teeth as they were being burned down. 171 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: These feelings contained mercury. And so what can happen with 172 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: the exposure to UH mercury is that you will have 173 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: instant is of this toxic effect on the brain and 174 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: your ability to perceive things in judgment, and all these 175 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: sorts of things come into play. And you know, the 176 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: attorney has said on a couple of occasions that there 177 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: were unhealthy levels of of this substance and Ray Britain 178 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: marshes blood work over a period of time. But you 179 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: know that that that rationale, that reasoning was not something 180 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: that was considered by the court in this case. At 181 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: the risk of being morbid more morbid than usual. Joe, 182 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: what about the smell? Is there a smell or is 183 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: it burning it such a high temperature that it burns 184 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: that smell off. I mean, I'm just trying to think 185 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: of people who work in the facility. What are they 186 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: going to be exposed to? Yeah, well, the first thing 187 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna be exposed to his intense heat in this environment, 188 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: and um, you know, I've been in several crematories over 189 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: the course of my career, um and there's not necessarily 190 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: an adverse smell when you when you walk in or 191 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: anything like that because it's so contained, but you can 192 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: I think probably for me, even me as a death 193 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: investigator spent around thousands and thousands of dead bodies, there 194 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: was something ominous to me when I would go in here. 195 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: I remember one of the last times I ever went 196 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: into a crematory, the oven had been off for probably 197 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: three hours um when I arrived, and I was going 198 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: there to examine a body that was to be cremated, 199 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: and Zachie, I gotta tell you, the radiating heat from 200 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: the oven itself absolutely just struck me in the face. 201 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: It's one of those moments in time where you know, 202 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: we talked about being struck backwards by smell. We have 203 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: something that's that's offensive that we smell, and that of 204 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: course has happened to me many times on cases involving 205 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: severe decomposed bodies. But there was something about this environment 206 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: when you go in there, that residual heat. You can 207 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: feel it and it just kind of gets all over you. 208 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: And it did for me, you know, it impacted me, 209 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: and I never could get past that because you know, 210 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: I didn't go to crematories like weekly or anything like that, 211 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: but I did visit them from time to time. The 212 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: heat is what always got to me because you know, 213 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: I knew what was I knew about the process, I 214 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: knew what was going on, and so you're in this 215 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: environment and this radiating heat is kind of getting all 216 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: over you at that moment time and you know, in 217 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: at least in your mind, you're connecting. You're connecting these 218 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: events together. You know what has just transpired there. So 219 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: you know, in the case of Try Tries to Crematory UM, 220 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: it was essentially a single person operation. I think that 221 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: Ray Brintin Marsh's mother helped administrate the facility, but he 222 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: he was the one that was solely responsible. By this time, 223 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: his father, who was elderly, was already bedridden in sickness UM, 224 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: so Marsh was operating this by himself. He would take 225 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,599 Speaker 1: these bodies from the funeral home. And the way it 226 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: would happen is that he had contracted or had contracts 227 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: with these funeral home that would say, hey, Mr marsh 228 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: we need to ring a body down to you and 229 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: have it cremated. We need it back at this prescribed time. 230 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: The family is expecting arrange. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem. 231 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: He would go retrieve it from maybe a funeral home 232 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: or hospital, take it to his crematory, and of course 233 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: he would feign having cremated the body. The next thing, 234 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, he's got an urn that he returns to 235 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: the funeral home. He doesn't give it directly to the family, 236 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: gives it to the funeral home. So now you've involved 237 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: these funeral homes in this process where the funeral home, 238 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: unbeknownst to them, they're receiving these cremines and then they're 239 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: handing off to the family, you know, and of course 240 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: accepting the money for the for the process. Um. And 241 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: this would happen time and time again. Jackie. There's some 242 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: indication that these cases that we're talking about, and I 243 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: don't know that they've ever found all of the body, 244 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: there's some indication that this may have been going on 245 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: since now hold onto your hat here since the mid nineties, 246 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: per apps that these bodies have been accumulating since that 247 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: period of time. And one fact that we have to consider, Joe, 248 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: that these families, forgiven concrete dust, most people are so 249 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: unfamiliar with what they should be receiving from the funeral 250 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: home that if they look in the urn, they're really 251 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: not going to know the difference. No, they're they're not. 252 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: That's not, that's not that's not even on somebody's rate. 253 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: I mean, who who goes into a funeral home and 254 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: actually thinks that they're having a wool pulled over their 255 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: eyes when it comes to the remains of the loved one? 256 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: I mean, just just try to do the math on that, 257 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: just for a second to here and sound of my voice, 258 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: you know who who among us would actually think that 259 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: you're being deceived by somebody that is being entrusted, arguably 260 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:58,239 Speaker 1: with one of the most sacred, if you will, precious 261 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: things that we have, and that's our loved ones, the 262 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: remains of our loved ones. You know that we for 263 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: for eons, you know, we we've you know, as humans, 264 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: we've practiced honoring the dead. I think just let's just 265 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: absorb that just for a second. Honoring the dead. You know, 266 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: the dead are essentially the most defenseless among us, if 267 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: you will, uh, the dead having a voice. And I'll 268 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: tell you this too. You know, over the course of 269 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: my career, I made in excess probably of two thousand 270 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: in person death notifications. And one of the things that 271 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: really has resonated with me over the years is that, 272 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, people that have illness, you know, sicknesses, they 273 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: go through divorces, um, they have bad marriages, all these 274 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: sorts of things. It's it's really hard to take the 275 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: measure of anybody that's going through grief how vulnerable you are. 276 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: You're You're like, you're like a weak little child, uh, 277 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: that that needs care. And I'm talking about the families 278 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: that remain these people, these grieving families are literally the 279 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: most vulnerable people at that moment time in our society. 280 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: These grieving families are probably the easiest to be preyed upon. 281 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: I remember sitting at my desk. I was still working 282 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: for the Medical Examiner's Office in in Atlanta as a 283 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: senior investigator, and I remember sitting at my desk when 284 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: the news broke about this case, and at that point 285 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: in time when the news broke about Tri State Crematory. 286 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 1: We knew that there were a lot of bodies up 287 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: in that area of Georgia that they had discovered, But 288 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: I don't think that that at that moment time it 289 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: I could even take the measure of it in my mind, 290 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: because this had never happened before. It had literally never happened. 291 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: I don't know of any agency that had ever been 292 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: faced would set of circumstances like this. You know, what 293 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: do you do with three hundred plus bodies that are 294 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: suddenly thrust upon you in this tiny, tiny little county. 295 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: You just made a major point show and you probably 296 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: didn't even catch it yourself right then you said three 297 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: hundred plus of bodies. We should note that in total, 298 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: three four bodies were recovered. Um the bodies were being 299 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: stored and piled in a storage shed, in vaults and 300 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: scattered inside and outside of the property. Three hundred and 301 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: thirty four bodies were recovered. How many weren't That's a 302 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: big question, isn't, Jackie. You know, because when you're talking 303 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: about essentially, and I mean this in the truest sense 304 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: of the word, you know, you hear the term disintegration, 305 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: and people don't really give it much thought, But cremation 306 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: probably comes closer to disintegration more so than anything else. 307 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: When we begin to think about human bodies, you're literally 308 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: disintegrating the body. You're pulling it apart. It's coming apart 309 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: at at a molecular level, so that nothing is is left. 310 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: Imagine this. If a strong wind came by, it could 311 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: blow cremains away. That gives you an idea. So how 312 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: much more so when we begin to consider You know, 313 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: you had mentioned how many had been found at that 314 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: moment time, and reflect back to what I had said. 315 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: There was some indication this may have been going on 316 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: since the mid ninety and I don't know how many 317 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: cases he was doing every single year. But you begin 318 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: to do the math on this, and the numbers could 319 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: potentially be astronomical. There may very well still be family 320 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: members out there that have never given this a second thought. 321 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: They didn't even know that they were attached in this 322 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: way to this man's business. They may have that urned 323 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: sitting up you on the mantelpiece or in a um 324 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: um an honored spot in their home, on a shelf somewhere, 325 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, where every day they walk by and they 326 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: just they just assume that their loved ones body is 327 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: in there. So, you know, when you begin to think 328 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: about what happens to these bodies, you know, these bodies 329 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 1: were actually laying out. Not all of them were in vaults, 330 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: which we can get into, but many of these bodies 331 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: were actually laying out on the bare ground, on bare earth, 332 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: and not just um, not just individually singularly. There are 333 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: some reports that these bodies were stacked, and I heard 334 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: one description where an individual said, just you know, bear 335 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: with me here and try to wrap your mind around 336 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: this stacked like cordwood. That is when somebody says that 337 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: that's like you, you're, you know, the firewood that you've 338 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: cut for the next year to go in, you know, 339 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: to burn over the year. That these bodies are stacked 340 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: like cordwood, just laying about, and they're everywhere. They're absolutely 341 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: everywhere over this huge piece of property that's kind of 342 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: got a wooden barrier to it, if you will, where 343 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: you couldn't really see beyond the woods. It's it just 344 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: happened that this lady was walking down the road with 345 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: her dog and she happened to see the skull. Now 346 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,719 Speaker 1: there had allegedly been whispers in the air for years 347 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: and years that something was not quite right, that there 348 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: were things going on around there, but no one had 349 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: ever taken the time to go out and look. And 350 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: it actually took a private citizen walking down the road 351 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: to find the skull. And you asked this question, I 352 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: think how the skull wind up and view that close 353 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: to the road. Well, my default position on this is 354 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: the following. It's the fact that they're scavengers coming onto 355 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: that property. Jackie. You've got wild dogs, you've got collot'es, 356 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: you've got any other kind of animals that will take 357 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: remains and to them their food, and they will drag 358 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: remains all over. So that's why I'm saying that logistically, 359 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: it's a nightmare if you're out there trying to recover 360 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: the remains and you're trying to account for everything that's 361 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: out there. Um lord only knows how many bodies have 362 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: been drug off over the years. I bet probably folks 363 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: in that area could still go out there and it 364 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: would not surprise me in the least bit in the 365 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: adjacent wooded area that human remains would still be found 366 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: to this day. So in a shed and scattered in 367 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: and outside of the property, and in the vaults. We 368 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: know that bodies decay. Number one, would they have decayed 369 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: inside the vault just as normal or are they sealed 370 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: since they're in a vacuum. Would that have made a difference? 371 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: And what would the scene have looked like with all 372 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: of these bodies. It's very basic. You know, you're gonna 373 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: have flies, you're gonna have maggots, you're gonna have a smell. 374 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: I mean, and you're talking about a number of bodies 375 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: that really it would have been hard to miss these 376 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: kind of decompositional markers. Yeah, I think so, you know, 377 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: you you begin to think about that, and the only 378 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: thing I can really kind of hang my hat on 379 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: here scientifically is that there would be a foul odor. 380 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: But an average citizen that was going down the road 381 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: might catch a whiff of that smell and they say, oh, well, 382 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: I know where I am. I'm by the crematory. That's 383 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: probably normal. I gotta tell you it ain't normal, all right, 384 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: And yeah, the smell would have been affecting to a 385 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 1: great degree. You go in and you have these bodies 386 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: that are and you know, you've mentioned the vaults, and 387 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: if folks aren't familiar with what my vault slat. Some 388 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: people will say crips, some people will say vault. If 389 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: you're ever going down the highway and you see a 390 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: flatbed truck going down the road, it'll have these big 391 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: concrete boxes on it many times, and you'll see this 392 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: lid that's fitted on, that's fit on top. Those are 393 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: actually the vaults that are dropped into the ground at 394 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: a dug grave. And remember coffins are not just simply 395 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: you know, you just don't dig a hole and stick 396 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: the coffin in the ground. They put a concrete al 397 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: too in the ground and then lower the casket into 398 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: the vault and then a lid is placed on the ball. Now, 399 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: this is not vacuum sealed in any way. In Ray 400 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: Brintain Marsh's case, he had several of these vaults that 401 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: were around the property. I think they found four that 402 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: I know of that the and these things are big, 403 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: I mean they're there, you know from a three dimensional standpoint. 404 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: You know, you look at one of these things that's 405 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: probably i don't know, probably four ft wide, it's over 406 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: six ft in length, and it's probably i don't know 407 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: maybe four ft deep. Um, you take this thing, and 408 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: you can just kind of compress bodies into this thing, 409 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: and it works much like you might think of mulching 410 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: in your yard. You know, people mulch decaying vegetual matter. 411 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: You begin to stack these bodies on top of one 412 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: another and there and there's heat. Remember we're talking about 413 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: the Deep South, and it didn't have to be the 414 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: Deep South. You could have done this up north as well. 415 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: It's still gets hot up there too. And then you 416 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: put the lid on top of it. That increases kind 417 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: of the level of heat that's contained in there. Because 418 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: you've got this you've got this process that's going on 419 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: in decomposition where it's kind of generating its own heat 420 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: and it impacts everything else around it. So at the 421 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: end of the day, when you take the lids off 422 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: of these vaults, and this is quite amazing when you 423 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: think of it, you take the lids off these vaults, 424 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: the body is on top that we're last laying in there. 425 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: You might get still recognize that that's a body, but 426 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: as you go deeper. As you go deeper, now you're 427 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: getting into essentially what becomes a stew. It's actually a stew. 428 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: This is almost like um a slow cooking process where 429 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: everything is beginning to render down and drop down and 430 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: drop down. We have a term for this in forensic 431 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:01,479 Speaker 1: anthropology UM that these practitioner UH referred to, and it's 432 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: called stratification. Where you know, when remains are buried, and 433 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, from a geological standpoint, you can see stratification 434 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: where things are laid on top of things and things 435 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: become stratified. There's different layers to them, and here you've 436 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: got an intense example of that. Now, what happens is 437 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: that as a result of these bodies being stratified, they 438 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: begin to come apart. And as they come apart, remember 439 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: we don't have any soft tissue in place any longer 440 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: that are holding that's holding skeleton together. Now you've just 441 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: got this kind of really disgusting soup that's at the bottom, 442 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: and the remains begin to commingle. So you'll have skeletal 443 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: remains that over period of time. You can't really appreciate 444 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: it um in the short period, but over period of 445 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: time they actually begin to roll a little bit in there. 446 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: They'll they'll adjust UM, particularly in this kind of thick 447 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: viscous fluid that's down at the bottom, and you have 448 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: this commingling of remains. So you have all of these 449 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: skeletons that are mixed together, so when you look at it, 450 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: you can just you know, just from that, you know, 451 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: the human body has got over two bones in it. 452 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,239 Speaker 1: So if you've got fifteen bodies that are stacked on 453 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: top of, you know, one another, there, do the math? 454 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: Do the math get an idea as to what you're 455 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: talking about, um relative to all of them, the skeletal 456 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: elements that are commingling one one another. How do you 457 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: go about kind of separating all of this. That's what 458 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: made this such an overwhelming task. Where all of the 459 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: people at the scene, so we know that it was 460 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: an anonymous tip that brought police into this investigation, how 461 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: would they have linked that skull back to the crematory? 462 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: The only answer I really have for that, Jackie, is 463 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: is proximity. You know, you put you put two and 464 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: two together, because you know the authorities, the people that 465 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: lived in this area and this this little isolated rural 466 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: area of Georgia. People know the travel up down that 467 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: road that live in proximity to this location. Certainly the authorities, 468 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure, probably know that the crematory is there. So 469 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: you find a skull lying on the ground, and you're 470 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: gonna put these two factors together. You don't have to 471 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: be an investigator to do that. Your point of origin 472 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: is going to be within a stone strow of that skull. 473 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: And then when you get investigators out there, they're gonna know, 474 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: or at least have a rudimentary understanding um regarding human 475 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: remains and how far safe. For instance, a scavenger will 476 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: go with a bit of human remain. You know, they're 477 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: they're not going to go a long, long ways away. 478 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: So if you think about that skull, the remainder of 479 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: that body probably would you know, be within fifty yards 480 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: of that point at which you found the skull, unless 481 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: unless there had been some kind of huge rain storm 482 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: and the body had been completely disarticulated and things get 483 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: washed away. But that's that's an anomaly that normally doesn't happen. 484 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: And in this particular case, when they found that skull, 485 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: all they had to do is think, well, oh my gosh, 486 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: you know, just through that woodline is a crematory. I 487 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: think that we can probably begin our investigation there. And 488 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure that when they rolled up they begin to 489 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: ask questions and all of a sudden, Can you imagine 490 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: being that investigator. You look out and maybe you see 491 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: a foot, maybe you see a hand, maybe you see 492 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,719 Speaker 1: an entire intact body, and suddenly you realize what you're 493 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: in the middle of. And it was an absolute hellscape. 494 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: So far, Joe, two hundred and twenty six of the 495 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: three d and thirty four bodies that were recovered have 496 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: been identified. So at this point you're looking at d 497 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: n A. They obviously would go to their families and say, um, 498 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: we found this body. Part. Did you contract with the 499 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: crematory for services? Is that how it was working to 500 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: identify those bodies? Yeah. The gb I, which the g 501 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: b I is the primary investigative body within the state 502 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: of order there the state police. You know, you've got 503 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: state troopers that handled, you know, highway things that go 504 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: on like that, and then you have the g b I, 505 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and they're the ones that 506 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: took the lead on this case. From this perspective of 507 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 1: trying to peace all this together, and of course at 508 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: this point in time, this is what's kind of odd 509 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: about this case and kind of sets it apart, you know, 510 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: different than things that maybe I talked about regularly on 511 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: body bags. This case, when you begin to bore down 512 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: into it, you're not talking about a homicide. Now, some 513 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: of these bodies, I don't know. Some of these people 514 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: could have been victims of homicide at some point in time, 515 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: but they wound up with the funeral home. Okay, I'm 516 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: not saying that that none of these bodies were the 517 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: victim of a homicide before they got to the funeral home. 518 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: That you know that that is probably the case. However, 519 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: in this particular case, as it centers around Marsh and 520 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: the Tri State Crematory, you're not talking about a true 521 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: death investigation. Now. The mission here is to try to 522 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: get the bodies identified. We're not we're not thinking about 523 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: like we normally do in medical legal terms, causing manner 524 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: of death, you know, which I talk a lot about 525 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: on body backs. This is an identification effort at this 526 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: point in time. So you're relying upon things like dental 527 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: X rays, um if any of the bodies are visually identifiable. 528 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure that they took facial photographs of many of 529 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: these bodies and ones that could still be recognizable, any 530 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: kind of jewelry that they may have had, and This 531 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: is kind of a curious thing. I know that some 532 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: of the bodies that and this is kind of this 533 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: is really particularly ghastly. Um. Some of these bodies that 534 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: were out there were actually identified by hospital bracelets that 535 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: they had on the wrist. And let me break this 536 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: down to you. When somebody dies in a hospital, they 537 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: still have their patient I D on their wrist. The 538 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: body is removed from the room and it goes to 539 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: perhaps the hospital morgue, or they might just if they 540 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: don't have a morgue, they have what's called a cool room, 541 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: and then you wait for the service to come and 542 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: pick up the body. This is how little care this 543 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: person took, all right. He would load the body into 544 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: the back of the hearse, drive it to the crematory 545 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: out on the property, and then can you imagine he 546 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: just drags the body out of the back of the 547 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: hearse and discards it out on the open ground, maybe 548 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: still wearing And I do know this for a fact, 549 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: there were somebodies that were out there that still had 550 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: hospital gowns on and they still had identity, those plastic 551 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: identity bracelets around their wrist. I even know of a 552 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: case where they found This is particularly horrible found the 553 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: body of an infant co mingled with adult bodies. You 554 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: imagine that just laying there and around the little ankle 555 00:32:45,960 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: of the baby there was a hospital identifier. I've walked 556 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: into homes where entire families have been slaughtered in one evening, 557 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: and yeah, I felt like I had the way to 558 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,239 Speaker 1: the world on me as an investigator because they were 559 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: so there was so much evidence at the scene that 560 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: I had to consider. I had to examine all of 561 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: these bodies. I had to actually contextualize everything. I don't 562 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: for me, I cannot even imagine what it would take 563 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: in order to begin on a case like this when 564 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: you look out over this, this piece of property and 565 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: you cannot turn your head to the left of the 566 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: right without seeing a corpse. Let's talk a little bit 567 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: about the people who would have handled this kind of assignment. 568 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: What type of investigators were sent. I do know this 569 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: was a federal investor tigation because it was across state lines, 570 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: So what kind of personnel would have been deployed to 571 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: handle this situation. Let's go back in time just a 572 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: little bit, and remember we're talking about February two thousand 573 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: and two. You know, in September of two thousand one, 574 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: just a couple of months before the Twin Towers had 575 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: come down. As a matter of fact, at this point 576 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: in time in February two thousand two, they still had 577 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: not completely finished process in all of the bodies. It 578 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: would still be several months after that. And up in 579 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: New York when this occurred, um, it triggered an organization 580 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: within the federal government that's called d morton. Many people 581 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: have never heard of this organization, but it's it's kind 582 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: of interesting, uh, particularly from a medical legal standpoint, but 583 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: d mort is an acronym that actually stands for a 584 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: disaster and mortuary Operational Response Teams. And these teams are 585 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: made up of medical legal death investigators, forensic pathologists, X 586 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: ray technicians, mortory service personnel, dentist from many people across 587 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: the spectrum and medical legal death investigation. Their sole purpose 588 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: is to go out in mass fatality events and begin 589 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: to east together what had happened and try to identify bodies. 590 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: You know, Jackie, some of the people that were out 591 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: at the scene had just returned from ground zero and 592 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: can you imagine the horror that they had witnessed up there, 593 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: and then that come down to Georgia and before their 594 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: very eyes here is something that is obviously not at 595 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: the level of ground zero, but still horrific to look at. 596 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: So when the switch is flipped for these people to respond, 597 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: it's only going to happen. And actually the state Medical 598 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: Examiner requested assistance with this, it's only gonna happen. Um 599 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: if you have such a volume of bodies that this 600 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: it outpaces the resources of the state. They don't have 601 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,959 Speaker 1: any way to handle this. So it would have been 602 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: where these individuals would have gone out in teams that 603 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: were broken them down into teams that would have searched 604 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: a grid that would have done a grid search over 605 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: the entire area and begin to try to put this 606 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: thing together so that they can come up with identifications 607 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: for everybody. And it's at this point in time that 608 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: you would have people like mortuary services people that would 609 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: begin to coordinate with all of these contracted funeral homes 610 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: around the area to try to track down how many 611 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: bodies had been sent to try set crematory from the 612 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: various funeral homes. Can you imagine what a nightmare would be, Say, 613 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: for instance, if a funeral home was now closed that 614 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: may have been opened ten years earlier. The trail suddenly 615 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: goes cold for you at that point in time, Um, 616 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: and your left scratching their head, because it's completely different 617 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 1: than a normal investigation where we have an unidentified body, 618 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, where the corners going out there, the medical 619 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: examiners going out there, and we're kind of the first 620 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: on the scene. At this point in time. The body, 621 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: these bodies that you have before you have already passed 622 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: through several hands at this point, so you're having to 623 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: backtrack on everything. And then when you put this factor 624 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: in there of this huge number of bodies, it increases 625 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: exponentially as far as the amount of labor that it 626 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: takes to try to solve these cases. How long would 627 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: it take to complete an investigation like this with the 628 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: number of bodies that were recovered and with the size 629 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: of the area that had to be investigated, it would 630 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: be daunting, to say the very least. A lot of 631 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: it's going to be dependent upon what the level of 632 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: decay is with a particular body, or how intact the 633 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: body still is that you're you know, you have to 634 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: focus on one body at the time, and so you 635 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: know you're looking at a body that may for instance, 636 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: being an advanced state of decomposition, you might only have 637 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 1: skeletal remains that are left. You might only have a 638 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 1: partial skeleton. What are you gonna do if, say, from 639 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 1: the pelvis down, that's all that remains, the upper torso, 640 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 1: the arms, small small bones of the hand, the ribs um, 641 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: the vertebra are scattered about, and the skull is missing, say, 642 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: for instance, like the skulls they found out by the road, 643 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: um you know, and so it comes in degrees, and 644 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: they would have in the way this is organized, the 645 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: scene would have been sectioned off. When it comes to 646 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: the processing area. The processing area is completely separate, say, 647 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: for instance, from the crime scene itself or the scenes 648 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,919 Speaker 1: where these bodies are found. They're gonna have an area 649 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: that's set up over there that they've got portable X ray, 650 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 1: they've got portable topsy services that are there. Um, they've 651 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: got a separate records area, they've actually got believed or not. 652 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: They've actually got dental stations over there, so that they 653 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,839 Speaker 1: would take a skull, for instance, and there would be 654 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: a forensic odentologist or dentist standing there with their tools 655 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: looking at teeth very very carefully and making annotations about 656 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,439 Speaker 1: everything that's going on, orally with a body to see 657 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: if there's any restorations of Malcolm's missing teeth, if if 658 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: the person had some kind of say, for instance, had 659 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: evidence of a root canal, or if they had evidence 660 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: of uh say a bridge that was in place, or 661 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: dentures for instance. They would look at everything to try 662 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: to gather as much information as they could about that 663 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: one remain and begin to piece this together, and you 664 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: try to essentially breathe life into the debt at this 665 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: point in time to tell their history and everything is important, 666 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: you know, ald surgery scars or perhaps if all you 667 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: have our skeletal remains you've mentioned ear elier, the rendering 668 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: down of bodies that might have pins that have been 669 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: in place, say in bones, for instance, as a result 670 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: of some kind of orthopedic surgery. Uh, that's gonna be 671 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: essential information at this point in time. So every bit 672 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: of information and data that you can come across relative 673 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: to these bodies is going to be essential if you 674 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: want to bring this thing to an end. So again, Joe, 675 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: we know that over a hundred bodies were not identified. 676 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: What happens now? You know, if our listeners wish to. 677 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: They can still go to the gb I website, UH, 678 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: and there is a section UM and this gives you this. 679 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: This gives you an idea where this it's exactly it's 680 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,720 Speaker 1: I think we're two weeks past it, but the twenty 681 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: year anniversary just happened relative to try state UM. To 682 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: give you an idea of how seriously the gb I 683 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: takes this, they have an entire web page on their 684 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: website that is devoted to strictly to try state crematory 685 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,399 Speaker 1: case and anybody that wants to can go through there 686 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: and look at the list of the remains that still 687 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: to this day remain unidentified. And again this is this 688 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: is something that is almost counterintuitive to the way we 689 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: normally conduct investigations because if we come across just so 690 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: our listeners can grasp this, if we come across body UM, 691 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: an individual body that we're working a case on, and 692 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: we try very very diligently to get that person identified. 693 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: We are looking specifically for a family Jackie. Everybody that's 694 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: out there and at some point in time been previously 695 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: accounted for. It had already been identified at some point 696 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: in time in the history of those remains. The problem 697 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: is is that the families are no longer aware of it. 698 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: They just assumed that their loved one was cremated and 699 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: they've moved on with their life at this point in time. 700 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: So I don't know how much success that there will 701 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: be and trying to get the remainder of these bodies, 702 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 1: which there are quite a number of at the end 703 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: of the day, how much success that will happen getting 704 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: these remains identified. As you were talking, Shoe, I did 705 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: what you said. I went to the gb I website 706 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: and that is g b I dot Georgia dot gov 707 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: forward slash try t r I dash state dash Crematory 708 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: dash u I d g b I dot Georgia dot 709 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: gov slash try dash state dash Crematory dash u I D. 710 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 1: I would suggest that anybody that is from the Tri 711 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: state area Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama that may have UM, you know, 712 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: suffered a loss in their fan emily and their family 713 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: member had been cremated, I would suggest at least take 714 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: a look, just take a look and see what is 715 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 1: on that list, because you never know, you might be 716 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,240 Speaker 1: the answer to one of these big questions that remains, 717 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: and that is who in fact are these individuals UM? 718 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: Because As time has gone on, people have forgotten about 719 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 1: this case, and you know, reflectively we look back at 720 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: it and it is a case that is going to 721 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: live with everybody I think that was out of that scene. 722 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,800 Speaker 1: It still impacts them to this day and that community 723 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: up there will never ever be the same. UM Joseph 724 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body backs