1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: As media. 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Better Offline. Of course, I'm your 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 2: host ed zitron, Here to Serve, Here to podcast. In 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: the last episode, I walked you through the how the 5 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: so called sudden magnification of Meta is really just them 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: formalizing the rot economy, the growth of all costs bullshit 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 2: that drives the entire company, making the products worse to 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: grab more advertising impressions, to make Mark Zuckerberg richer, while 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: also making the life of the average Facebook user that 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: bit worse. And I believe that had Meta and Mark 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg been ever really held accountable, truly accountable in the 12 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: last decade, that things might have gone a little differently. Zuckerberg, 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: like many tech executives, has been allowed to destroy the 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: user experience in broad daylight because the media, despite writing 15 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: about Facebook as a product all the time for years, 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: doesn't seem capable of writing the blunt truth about how 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: shit it is, how bad it works, how everything is 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,279 Speaker 2: kind of getting there but nowhere worse than Facebook. Really, 19 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: the problem, I believe is there are some people that 20 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: simply want the tech executives to have power. They want 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: to make friends with the rock stars, they want to 22 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: be in their orbit to humor their ideas and celebrate 23 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: their victories, which is so strange because said victories are 24 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 2: usually just the rich just got even richer, and where 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: that's not the case, there's just a lack of willingness 26 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: to say that something is bad, and the consequences are 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: that these platforms have been left unchecked. To be clear, 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: there are plenty of reporters who have done great work 29 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: reporting on specific parts of Matt's problems, Kevin Russel at 30 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: The Times with crowd tang, or Jeff Horwitz and the 31 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: rest of the team who did the Facebook files at 32 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal, for example. But there's been this 33 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,919 Speaker 2: bigger and nastier and more obvious problem that no one's 34 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: really put down. In blunt words, the core product of 35 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: Facebook has gone incrementally worse, seemingly every month since two 36 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: thousand and eight. And while I understand that it's hard 37 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: to just write thing bad every week, but I fucking 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: do it. Journalism is fully capable of doing this in 39 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: other ways. Think about it when they write about crime 40 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: or wars. How is a social network used by billions 41 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: of people less important than that, or less important than 42 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: how many people have allegedly broken into a CVS cabinet. 43 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: If a tanker overturned on a highway, spilling various poisons 44 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: and acids and such into local water sources and burning 45 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: people alive in the middle of a fucking freeway, that 46 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: would be news, right, But somehow billions of people being 47 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: actively misled, manipulated and harmed every single day just isn't relevant. Now, 48 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: one argument might be, well, it isn't really clear what 49 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: the harms of social media are. We have some reporting, 50 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: but it's just not that obvious. Well, my retort's also 51 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: fairly obvious and goes back to something I just said. 52 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: The media seems fully capable of writing about the rise 53 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: of retail theft, for example, and that led to a 54 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: whole thing with pharmacies like I mentioned, locking in entire 55 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: parts of the store behind plastic, And it wasn't obvious 56 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: whether this was a real problem, but it didn't stop 57 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: the media writing hundreds of thousands of words about how 58 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: dangerous cities had gone, how dangerous, Oh, this retail theft, 59 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: it's all happening. And again it wasn't necessarily based on 60 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: anything other than editorial vibes. And whoever picked up the 61 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: tab at Balthazar that week it was craven, But at 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: least could we do like a craven thing with Facebook? 63 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: Because if streets were littered with needles and corpses and 64 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: fires and trash and violence, you would expect then used 65 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: to cover that. Why isn't Facebook treated the same way? 66 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: Why aren't social networks treat it the same way? We 67 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: can do this paranoid, sinophobic shit. We can do this 68 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: thing where we say TikTok is manipulating people with their algorithms, 69 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: as if Meta isn't doing the same thing with theirs. 70 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: But let's take it an abstraction above that and just 71 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: look at what we're really dealing with here. Facebook is 72 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: used by billy of people. It is a platform that 73 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: probably has more effect on the people that use it 74 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: than many forms of entertainment by congressmen, even by local officials. 75 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: People are more aware of the things they see on 76 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: social media than they are of like civic things, And 77 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: I really want to be clear, with that level of exposure, 78 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: with that many people affected by how bad Facebook has got, 79 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: we should be treating this like a mass casualty event, 80 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: like a mass poisoning. We should be looking at the 81 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 2: quality of these platforms. But none worse than Facebook and 82 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: saying what is being done to people? And it's not 83 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: just about misinformation, it's not just about harassment, two things 84 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 2: which are very, very fucking important, especially the harassment. It's disgraceful. 85 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 2: It's disgraceful that trans people are now targeted on there. 86 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: But on top of that, it's just bad, flat out bad, 87 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: flat out harmful, flat out obviously horrible and unsafe and harmful, 88 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: full of scams and spams. But we treat it like 89 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: this cute little thing in the fucking corner. And the 90 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 2: basic quality of the Facebook experience really is quite terrible, 91 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: I need to repeat myself. And it actively deprives the 92 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: users of dignity in industry to make their own decisions, 93 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: and their experiences are constantly interfered with, and the majority 94 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: of the content that they see is provided by a 95 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: shadowy algorithm built to promote engagement rather than any kind 96 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: of utility. This is not a fair exchange of value. 97 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: If Facebook were a city, every second car would be 98 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: overturned and on fire. Men would solicit you on the 99 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: sides of the street for I don't know, drugs, or 100 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: just to steal from you, or maybe they just try 101 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: and confuse you like a carnival guy. Random people would 102 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: just bark at you from their windows. I think people 103 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: would just throwing faces out the fucking window, and the 104 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 2: governor would be actively selling pardons on television every day. 105 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: If that was happening in a city, that would be news. 106 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: But it happens on Facebook. It happens on Facebook every day. 107 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: The harms have been here for years, and we as 108 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: the media, have done jack fucking shit. You can report 109 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: on the obvious things, on the research on the harms 110 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: that Facebook know, fine, actually need to do that. We 111 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: need that journalism, But on top of it, we need 112 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: to treat this platform as how harmful it is, but 113 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: also how harmful it's going to get. And like I 114 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 2: said last episode, it's been like this for a while, 115 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: and it's kind of a comfortable lie I think to 116 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: say that Meta's suddenly done something bad here, because it 117 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: gives the media and society kind of a free pass 118 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: for ignoring this gaping wound in the side of the 119 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: fucking Internet. Two of the world's largest social networks are 120 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: run and have been run with this blatant contempt for 121 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 2: the user, misinforming and harming people at scale, making the 122 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: things they want to see harder, defiant and swamping them 123 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: in this endless stream of sponsored and recommended content that 124 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: either sells them something or gets them to engage further 125 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: with the platform, with little care as to why they 126 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: be doing so other than the fact that all things 127 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: are justified under growth. Worse still, there have been some 128 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: members of the media that have actively worked to support 129 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 2: and celebrate what Meta has done for years. You'll never 130 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: guess that I'm referring to Casey Newton of Platformer, who's 131 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: done an admirable job. I will repeat myself covering Meta 132 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: in the last few weeks and the horrifying anti LGBTQ 133 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: things that Matter has been doing. But it's also really 134 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: important to note that Casey was cheerfully covering Zuckerberg and 135 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: I quote his expansive view of the future as recently 136 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: as September twenty fifth, twenty twenty four, and he happily 137 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: published how and I quote again, Zuckerberg was back on 138 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 2: the offensive somehow, not seeing anything worrying about the fact 139 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 2: that Mark Zuckerberg's shirt referenced Julius Caesar, the historic dictator 140 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: that perpetuated the genocide in the Gaelic wars like this 141 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: is who he was months ago. Where was the alarm then? 142 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: Where was the worry then? But don't worry, I'm not 143 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: remotely done with you, Casey. Yeah, Casey felt it unnecessary 144 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: to mention at any time how utterly atrocious Facebook has got, 145 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: but he will happily quote Mark Zuckerberg saying things like 146 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 2: in every generation of technology, there is a competition of 147 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: ideas for what the future should look like. Yet the 148 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: most loathsome thing that Casey Newton published was the following 149 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: and I quote and all of these will be linked 150 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: to in the notes don't worry ahem, but it left 151 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: unsaid it referring to Meta what seemed to be the 152 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: larger point, which is that Zuckerberg intends to crush his rivals, 153 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: particularly Apple, into a fine pulp. His swagger on stage 154 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: was most evident when discussing the company's next generation glasses 155 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 2: as the likeliest next generation computing platform, and highlighted the 156 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: progress that Meta had made so far in overcoming the 157 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: crushing technological burdens necessary for that to happen. And Meta 158 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 2: also failed to capture just how personal all this seems 159 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: to Mark Zuckerberg. Burned by what he has called the 160 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 2: twenty year mistake of the company's reaction to the post 161 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen tech backlash very weird. That that's not twenty years, 162 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 2: and Zuckerberg, in this case quoting again, is long haunted 163 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 2: by criticisms that Meta has been nothing more than the 164 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: competition crushing copycat since it released the news feed, Zuckerberg 165 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: has never seemed more intent on claiming for himself the 166 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: mantle of inn Well Don Casey great fucking journalism there 167 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: mate share, not a dry seat in the house, ridiculous, 168 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 2: cowardly paper tiger analysis, stenography for the powerful masters, deep thoughts. 169 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: This specific paragraph is exactly where Casey Newton could have 170 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: said something about how worrying Mark Zuckerberg modeling himself on 171 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: a Roman dictator was. I don't know. Maybe he could 172 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: have brought up how all the company was, despite winking 173 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 2: about how it's building the future, letting its existing products 174 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 2: deteriorate as it deliberately turned the screws to duce engagement. 175 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: Casey Newton has regularly and reliably turned his back on 176 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: the truth that Metascore products are really quite bad in 177 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 2: favor of pumping up various AI products and vague promises 178 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 2: from Zuckerberg about a future that just arrived in fucking sucks. 179 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: The reason I'm singling him out, by the way, is 180 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 2: that it's very very very very important to hold the 181 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 2: people that helped Mark Zuckerberg succeed accountable, especially as the 182 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 2: attempt to hint that they've always been an aggressive advocate 183 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,239 Speaker 2: for the truth. J Newton is fully capable of real journalism, 184 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 2: as proven by the way by his recent coverage, but 185 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: he's chosen again and again to simply print whatever Mark 186 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg wants to say. Now, I'm going harden the paint 187 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: against Casey for a reason, and it's because he wrote 188 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: something at the end of last year called The Phony 189 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 2: Comforts of AI Skepticism. It's one of the weirdest things 190 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: I've read in my life. It's this sloppily stapled together 191 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: piece of marketing collater or for AI companies, saying that 192 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: not only is AI the future, but those that are 193 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 2: critiquing it were doing so in this kind of cynical, 194 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 2: corrupt way for attention. And he singled out one person, 195 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: Gary Marcus, who's an independent critic. I've had my issues 196 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: with Gary, but let me tell you something. If you're 197 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: singling out a writer, You'll do it again. You'll gladly 198 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: choose an independent writer and single them out. Now I 199 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 2: should be clear, I'm doing the same thing with Casey 200 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 2: right now. But Casey has a bigger audience than I have. 201 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: He has more connections, he's more powerful ostensibly. But on 202 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: top of that, when you choose to single out a writer, 203 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 2: a writer who is critiquing the powerful, what are you doing? 204 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: Who do you work for? Casey? I'm not done with you, 205 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: not remotely. I've got plenty more to say here. But 206 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: I think the biggest question I ask for Casey Newton 207 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: is who are you defending? What are you defending? What 208 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: is it you do every day? Who are you writing for? 209 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: Because if you're going to choose an independent critic, a 210 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: critic who is critiquing multi billion dollar companies, to what 211 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 2: end are you doing? So what are you defending? But 212 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: let's keep going, though, because there was also another thing 213 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: that Casey said that I just didn't like. Right at 214 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 2: the end, he said, and I quote that he was 215 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: taking detailed notes on all bloggers writing financial analyzes, suggesting 216 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: that Open Eye will go bankrupts soon because it's not 217 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 2: profitable yet. Oh Casey, Casey, Casey, Casey, who could you 218 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: possibly be talking about there. I'm not going to say 219 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: I think it is. I'm just going to say this. 220 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: I do not like bullies, and I do not like threats. 221 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 2: Suggesting that one is taking detailed notes on bloggers is 222 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 2: an attempt to intimidate people that are seriously evaluating the 223 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: fact that open ai burns five billion dollars a year 224 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: and has no part of the profitability. I don't know 225 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: if this is actually about me, and I don't really 226 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: give a shit, but I will tell you something, Casey. Actually, 227 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: I'll tell you two things. One, don't fucking threaten people. 228 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: Don't talk about taking detailed notes on people. You have power, 229 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 2: you have a platform, You have responsibility to young journalists 230 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: as well as to yourself, and you seem to have 231 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 2: given up on all the rest of it. You seem 232 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: to have lost your weight. But then there's the second thing, 233 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 2: which is, Casey, I've been taking detailed notes on you 234 00:12:45,360 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 2: for some fucking time. Well. Newton's metaverse into View from 235 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one was deeply irresponsible in how much it 236 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 2: quoted Mark Zuckerberg just saying complete crap, Arguably his most 237 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: disgraceful act was October twenty six, twenty twenty one, when 238 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: he wrote a piece called the Facebook Paper's Missing Piece, 239 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: an interview with an anonymous integrity worker that attempted to 240 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: undermine the Wall Street Journals reporting on the Facebook files, 241 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: a massive investigation and expose of how Facebook knew how 242 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: harmful their platform was. I should be clear the Facebook 243 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 2: file situation involved Francis Horgan coming forward, risking her life, 244 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: risking her safety. That woman is incredibly brave, as are 245 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: the reporters that covered this. This is important work. This 246 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 2: is necessary work. And Newton's pieces a disgrace to tech journalism, 247 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: a disqualifying one, a seeming attempt to discredit by proxy, 248 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: the bravery of a whistleblower that provided documents that led 249 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 2: to this meaningful reporting. And it's utterly repulsive corporate hand washing, 250 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: and its important context for any criticism that casing you 251 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: has anything of anything ever again. And I'm furious. I'm 252 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: furious because Casey could be better. I believe that Casey 253 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 2: could actually do meaningful things. And we need you right now, Casey, 254 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: we need you to fucking start working again. And indeed, 255 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: I think the only comfortable thing I hear, or at 256 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: least feel, is reading. How much of the powerful's messaging 257 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: you like to share? Casey Newton argued that while AI 258 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: companies have hit a scaling wall, it's actually okay. And 259 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: don't worry, I'll have plenty of links in the notes 260 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 2: that NFTs went finally mainstream in twenty twenty two. They didn't. 261 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: He argued that Clubhouse was the future and that live 262 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: audio was Zuckerbugs and I quote big bet on creators 263 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one due to and I quote again 264 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: the shift in power from institutions to individuals. I should 265 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 2: add that Facebook shut down their podcast service a year later. 266 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: And he also added, and I can't see the full 267 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: text here because it's payward, that metaverse pessimists were missing 268 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: something because Meta's grand vision was already well on its way. 269 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 2: He wrote this in November twenty twenty one. By the way, 270 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 2: he also wanted that Meta's leadership changed its mind about 271 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: its name because Facebook was not the future of the company. 272 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 2: Maybe that was accurate, I don't know. He also wrote 273 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: about Acxieinfinity, which is a cryptoweb three Pokemon clone thing 274 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: that created a kind of indentured servitude. There's like loan 275 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: sharks in the Philippines. That fuck, people have heard this. 276 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: It's insane. And by the way, back by Andres and Horowitz, 277 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: and he was claiming that the game turned gaming on 278 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: its head. It sucks absolutely. I could go on, it 279 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: shouldn't be this easy, man, It shouldn't be this easy 280 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: to find a bunch of really weird stuff. Because Casey 281 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: has also at times had real dalliancies with criticism. He 282 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: has criticized Facebook, but it's also hard to take those 283 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: criticisms seriously when Casey's also written a piece for The 284 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 2: Verge about how Google plans to win its antitrust trial. 285 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: They didn't win, by the way, and he printed the 286 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 2: legal and marketing opinion of one of the largest companies 287 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: in the world their general counsel, knowing full well the 288 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: Department of Justice could not respond. How would they respond? 289 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: The old Microsoft anti trust case ended up getting sucked 290 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: up because a judge responded to a journalist like, that's 291 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: the thing, Casey, use your power responsibly. Don't talk about 292 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 2: taking notes, mate, don't talk about taking notes. There's fighting words. Anyway, 293 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 2: the Google thing I brought up, maybe thinking why would 294 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: I bring up anythim with with Google. This is about 295 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: meta right, Well, there were emails revealed in the Department 296 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: of Justice is anti trust against trial against Google Search, which, 297 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: as you well know, for the man who cup Google Search, 298 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: I've read a lot of Well, Google specifically mentioned having 299 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: briefed Casey Newton with the intention of and I quote 300 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 2: looking for ways to drive headlines on Google's own terms. Now, 301 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: in Newton's defense, this is standard pr language, but it 302 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: is within the context of what I'm saying, quite hard 303 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: to ignore. And again, the reason I'm so fucking furious 304 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: about Casey Newton, it's these part of a media machine 305 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: that's helped whitewash Mark Zuckerberg and the people around Mark 306 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg running these glossy puff pieces with scumbags like Nick 307 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: fucking Clegg and saying things like and I quote. The 308 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 2: transition away from Facebook's old friends and family dominated feeds 309 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: to metas algorithmic wonderland Jesus Christ seems to be proceeding 310 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 2: mostly without incident. By the way that line I AD 311 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 2: was published in twenty twenty three, two years after the 312 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 2: release of the Facebook files, which revealed that the company 313 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: knew its algorithmic timeline had a propensity to push users 314 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: into increasingly radical echo chambers, and one year after amidst, 315 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: the International published a report accusing Facebook's algorithms of and 316 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: I quote, supercharging the spread of harmful anti Rohinga content 317 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: in Nyamar amidst the genocide that saw an estimated million 318 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 2: displaced and tens of thousands massacred. KC. Case wake up, brother, 319 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: it's time to go back to work. It's time for 320 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 2: you to do a good job again. Case Is spent 321 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: years using his platform to subtly defend these companies, these 322 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 2: companies that actively make their shit worse, and he occasionally 323 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: proves he can be a real journalist. There is a 324 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: whole series of articles he wrote about the acquisition of 325 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: Twitter by Elon Musk that was genuinely important, fighting for 326 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 2: workers as well as members of the platform's trying horrible 327 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 2: things that Elon Musk was saying and doing. You can 328 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: do this, Casey, you can actually do this. But then 329 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: it feels like you slip back into am I being 330 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 2: too mean to meta? I'm not gonna single Casey out further, 331 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: and I really want to make it clear my frustration 332 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: here isn't that I think Casey's stupid or poorly connected. 333 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 2: Quite the opposite. I think Casey's quite smart. I think 334 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: Casey's fully capable of doing this. It's why it's so 335 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: sickening when you go and look back and see what 336 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: he's done. And I really need you to know how 337 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 2: important it is to have really great independent writers and 338 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: not have them scared to do things because a guy 339 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: who clearly has some allegiance with the powerful wants to 340 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 2: scare them. You can't scare Gary Markus. Nothing scares Gary 341 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 2: Marcus is actually kind of remarkable, actually kind of weird. 342 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 2: But this isn't about Gary. Now. The media and people 343 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 2: like Casey, and this is another frustrating thing as well. 344 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 2: They're super influential of a public policy and the overall 345 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 2: way that's I've used and judges tech as an experienced, 346 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: knowledgeable journalist, Casey is too regularly chosen to frame fear 347 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 2: and balanced as let's make sure the powerful get their 348 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: say too. As I've said and I will continue to say, 349 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: Casey is fully capable of doing some of the literal 350 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 2: best journalism in tech. And I always cite his Facebook 351 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 2: moderation stuff. It's really good. He fought for people that 352 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 2: were victims of a horrifying corporate machine. Yeah, he keeps 353 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: choosing not to do that, And I don't know what 354 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: it is. I'm not gonna I actually don't consider Casey 355 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 2: and Karaswish are the same thing. I don't know Casey's intentions. 356 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 2: All I know is what he's done. And all I 357 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 2: know is that if we are to push back on authoritarianism, 358 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: that if we're actually going to tell the truth to 359 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: people and help people understand what's happening to them, we 360 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: can't keep doing it this way. We can't. And the 361 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: cost of doing it this way is that the powerful 362 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: of used people in the media as mouthpieces to whitewash. 363 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 2: There's horrible, little fucking product decisions, these terrible things they've done. 364 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 2: And I don't know why Casey I mentioned it. I 365 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 2: don't know his intentions. I really don't. But what I 366 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: do know is that as a result of Casey Newton's work, 367 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg and his products have received a continual amount 368 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 2: of promotion for ideas and air cover for their failures, 369 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 2: and as a result, public policy has been directly influenced. 370 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 2: And it's just frustrating. It can be better, it should 371 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 2: be better. And while Newton has acted for years like 372 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: nothing was wrong with the quality of the platforms themselves. 373 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 2: He's been able to write with clarity and purpose about 374 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: other things. And if he did the same thing, and 375 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: I would be I will be completely serious. If he 376 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 2: changes his tune, I'd be so happy. We need Casey 377 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 2: Newton actually challenging these companies meaningfully. And I don't know 378 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: what would change that, but I will say, don't threaten 379 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 2: fucking writer as Casey, don't do that. I don't like bullying. 380 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: I won't tolerate in this fucking tech media. I know 381 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: oint can squeak at you all I possibly can. Don't 382 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 2: talk about taking detailed notes about people. It's greasy, it's gross. 383 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: And I think that the consequences of supporting these companies, 384 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: of making sure that when something bad happens they have 385 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 2: a newsletter with one hundred and fifty thousand subscribers that 386 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: they can go to and get a kindly story. That's 387 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 2: just worrying and it can be better in case he 388 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: can be better too, But the consequences here are horrifying 389 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: and they're all also just reading these stories again just 390 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: feels me full of bile, as if I'm usually that 391 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 2: calm putting aside the fact that Mark Zuckerberg is this 392 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: horrible career liar and this charlatan. He's deliberately hurting billions 393 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 2: of people. He has been doing this for a while, 394 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: and I believe that by being given air cover for 395 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 2: so long and now having this mask off moment where 396 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: he can just say, oh, give it's now, I would 397 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 2: not be surprised if Zuckerberg turns on the media. Well 398 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 2: maybe they'll help him. I don't know, but I think 399 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 2: that where we are right now, with this kind of unvarnished, 400 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 2: unrepentant Mark Zuckerberg, I think that all of the changes 401 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 2: he's making at Meta, it's going to create this new 402 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: era of decay. I think he is going to inspire 403 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 2: tech executives unburdened by the kind of flimsy approach to 404 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: societal norms and customer loyalty. I think he's going to 405 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 2: inspire them to make their shit even worse. From here, 406 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 2: I think Meta has fired the gun of the slop society. 407 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 2: And yes, I came up with a new term, because 408 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 2: this is the beginning of the shittiest shit that ever 409 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 2: did shit. In an interview with The Financial Times from 410 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 2: December twenty twenty four metas VP of Product for Generative AI, 411 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 2: Connor Hayes said that Meta expects AI to actually overtime 412 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 2: exist on metas platforms, kind of in the same way 413 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: that accounts to each one having their own bios and 414 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: profile pictures and the ability to and I quote generate 415 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: and share content powered by AI on the platform. This 416 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 2: came hot off the heels of Mark Zuckerberg saying in 417 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 2: a quarterly earning school that Meta would and I quote 418 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: add a whole new category of content, which is AI 419 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 2: generated or AI summarized content, or kind of existing content 420 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 2: pulled together by AI in some way, effectively promising to 421 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 2: drop AI slop into feeds already filled with recommended and 422 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: sponsored slop from real people that gets in the way 423 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 2: of you seeing the things you actually log onto their 424 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 2: platforms to look at. Now, this whole thing in the 425 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: Financial Times it led to a kind of scandal where 426 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: users discovered what they believed to be brand new AI profiles. 427 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 2: Karenattiir of The Washington Post were a long thread and 428 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: blue Sky, and a piece in the post itself about 429 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: her experience talking to a bot she fairly described as 430 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 2: digital blackface, with Meta receiving massive backlash for these bots 431 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: that would happily admit that they were trained by a 432 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 2: bunch of white people. It turns out, by the way, 433 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: that these bots had been around for over a year 434 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 2: in various forms that were so unpopular that nobody really 435 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 2: noticed in twenty twenty three until the financial time story 436 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 2: came up at the end of twenty twenty four, leading 437 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: to better deleting the bots, at least for now, though 438 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: I'm hearing reports you can still get to them if 439 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 2: you really need to talk to a chat GBT version 440 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 2: of what someone who thinks her a gay black person is. 441 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 2: And I'm really describing the literal bot here live is 442 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: the name? Really disgusting stuff. And I'm one hundred percent sure, 443 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 2: by the way, that these chatbots are coming back, because 444 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 2: it's fairly obvious that Meta intends to fill your feeds 445 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 2: with content, whether it's entirely generated or recommended or summarized 446 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: or whatever it is. And AI generated slop's already dominating 447 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 2: the platform, and has discussed earlier the quality of the 448 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: platform itself has already fallen into a kind of ultra disrepair, 449 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 2: mostly because Meta's only concern is keeping you on Instagram 450 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: or Facebook so that they can show you more ads 451 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: or content that they've been paid to show you, even 452 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: if the reason you're seeing it is because you can't 453 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 2: find the things you actually want to find. And I 454 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: keep repeating that point for a reason, because that's how 455 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 2: meta makes money. And all of this is because well, 456 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 2: like everything in this show, all roads lead back to 457 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: the rot economy, which the growth at all cost mindset. 458 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 2: That means that the only thing that matters is the 459 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: growth of revenue, which comes from showing you as many 460 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: ads as possible and you being engaged with the platform 461 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 2: as much as possible. But I'm gonna be honest, it's 462 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 2: almost ridiculous to call us users of Facebook at this point. 463 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 2: We don't use Facebook. Facebook uses us. It's tripe, but 464 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: it's true. We're victims. We're all victims of the rot economy. 465 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: And I said it at the end of last year, 466 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 2: But with Facebook, I really think it's at its most grotesque. 467 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 2: We're not users. We are the used. We're the punished, 468 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 2: the terrorized, the trick the scammed, the abused. We're constantly 469 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 2: using this app trying to get things that we actually want. 470 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 2: We're constantly forced to navigate through layers of abstraction between 471 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: the thing we're allegedly using and the features we'd like 472 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 2: to use. It's fucking farcical how little attention has been 473 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: given to how bad tech products have gone, and few 474 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 2: have decayed as severely as Facebook thanks to this near 475 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: monopoly they have over social media. I would rather not 476 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: use any of their products, but there are people I 477 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 2: know who really only speak to me on there, and 478 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: I know many people who have the same experience. Don't 479 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: call me a loser, all right, I've gone to a 480 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 2: lot of therapy. I don't call myself that anymore anyways. 481 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 2: Is Zuckerberg and his people are intimately aware though people 482 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 2: don't really have any whe else to go, which, along 483 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 2: with a lack of regulation and a fairly compliant media, 484 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 2: has given Mark Zuckerberg and Meta permission to do just 485 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: about anything they want to increase advertising impressions, which in 486 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: practice means giving you more reason to stay on the platform, 487 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 2: which means putting more things in the way of what 488 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 2: you want to see, rather than creating something you'd want 489 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 2: to see in the first place. It's the same thing 490 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 2: that happened with Google Search, where the revenue team pushed 491 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 2: the search team to make search results worse as a 492 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 2: means of increasing the amount of times that people search 493 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 2: for things on Google, because you know, a user that 494 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 2: finds what they're looking for quickly spends less time looking 495 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 2: at ads. And that's just not how it works with 496 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 2: Probagar Ragavan and said his name in a while. But 497 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: this is why the app store on Apple devices is 498 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 2: so chaotic and poorly curated as well, because they make 499 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 2: money on the advertising impressions they get from showing you 500 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 2: ads as you search for apps. Also, this is why 501 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: so many products on the App Store have expensive and 502 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 2: exploited in micro transactions too. Apple makes thirty percent off 503 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: of all apps store revenue, even if the app sucks, 504 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 2: even if the app tricked you and said, oh yeah, 505 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 2: we're going to charge you weekly, they hide the weekly. 506 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 2: You think, oh three ninety nine a month, right now, 507 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 2: it's weekly. It's in a tiny, little little note at 508 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 2: the bottom. Apple eventually gets rid of those people eventually. 509 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: And I believe that Mark Zuckerberg loosening community standards and 510 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: killing fact checking is just the beginning of texts real 511 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: era of decay. You think the rot economy is bad, 512 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 2: that they it's only getting worse. See it's Trump really 513 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: inspires people horrible people by bulldozing norms, doing things that 514 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 2: we would all agree we would never do, like being 515 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 2: noxious and toxic and racist, and in the process moves 516 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: the over window, which is the range of acceptable things 517 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 2: in the society, further and further and further into the toilet, 518 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: aggressively flushing it as he goes. But really, we've already 519 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 2: seen tech's Overton window shift for years. A lack of 520 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 2: media coverage of the actual decay of these products, and 521 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: a lack of accountability for tech executives, both in the 522 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: media and regulation. It's given these companies the permission to 523 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 2: quietly fuck up their stuff, to make the services worse, 524 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: to make more growth happen, and because everybody made things shittier. 525 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: Over time, it became accepted practice to punish and trick 526 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 2: customers with dark patterns, designed choices to intentionally mislead people, 527 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: to the point that the FTC found last year that 528 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,719 Speaker 2: the majority of subscription apps and websites use them. I believe, however, 529 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 2: that Zuckerberg is going to move the tech Overton window 530 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 2: a little bit further. Look, he's publicly saying we are 531 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: going to fill your feeds with slop, we're firing five 532 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 2: percent of our workers because they're not good, and we're 533 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 2: going to have AI profiles instead of real people on 534 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 2: the site. You visit to see the real people you know. 535 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 2: And we don't really give a shit about marginalized people 536 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 2: to the point of formalizing it in policy, rendering our 537 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: DEI initiatives, and people are too mean to men. These 538 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 2: are the things that Mark Zuckerberg is using to signal 539 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 2: the fact that he does not give a rap fuck 540 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 2: about you or the users of his products, and he 541 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 2: knows that, in his position of the CEO, is one 542 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: of the most powerful companies in the world, let alone 543 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 2: tech companies. By the way, people are going to follow, 544 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: not just in tech, but are really in tech. Tech's 545 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 2: already taken liberties with the digital experience, and I believe 546 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 2: this SLOP era is going to be one where experiences 547 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 2: will begin to subtly and overtly rot, with companies proudly 548 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 2: boasting that they're making adjustments the user engagement that will 549 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 2: provide better business forward outcomes, which will be code for 550 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: make things worse so we make more money. I realize 551 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 2: this also an obvious thing. I'm not saying that the 552 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: Trump administration isn't going to be any kind of regulatory 553 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 2: force against big tech. Trump is perhaps the most transactional 554 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: human being to ever grace the earth. Big tech knows this, 555 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 2: which is why all of them have been donating random 556 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: one million dollar checks to him to his inorganization fund. 557 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: It's why Trump is completely revert this position on TikTok, 558 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: which is banned or unbanned depending on what's happening today. 559 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 2: I'm recording this. It's back up. I don't use it. It's weird. 560 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 2: I don't like it. Something's wrong there. I don't even 561 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 2: mean with the app before it like, something's weird with it. 562 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 2: Now you can't post about meta negatively. But tech knows, 563 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: or at least thinks, that by kissing the ring, they 564 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 2: can do whatever they want. Now. I should be clear 565 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 2: that previous governments have not been particularly effective at curbing 566 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 2: the worst excesses of big tech, though. I think we 567 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: can all agree on that he has done some stuff. 568 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 2: But even then, the qualities, there's no quality standards. Outside 569 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 2: of the last few years, and specifically the work done 570 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 2: by the FTC under Lena Khan Anti Trust against big 571 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 2: tech has been incredibly weak and really has been pretty 572 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: weak against everyone else as well, and no meaningful consumer 573 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 2: protections exist to keep websites like Facebook or Google functional 574 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 2: for consumers or limit how exploitative they can be. Like 575 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: they can't just have vats of piss in your drinking water. 576 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 2: Why is this any different? And yes, I consider spam 577 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: a form of piss. But the media really has failed 578 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: to hold them accountable at scale, which has in turn 579 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 2: allowed the Overton window to shift on quality. And now 580 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: that Trump and the general magnified mindset of you can 581 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 2: do or say whatever you want if you do so 582 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 2: confidently or loudly enough, has risen to power again, and 583 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: so too will an era of outright selfishness and cruelty 584 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 2: within the products that consumers use every day. Except this time, 585 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: I believe these tech companies finally have permission to enter 586 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 2: their real, dirtiest, sloppiest eras. I also think that Trump 587 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 2: gives them the confidence that monopolies like Facebook, Instagram, Microsoft 588 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: three sixty five, which is Microsoft's enterprise monopoly over business 589 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 2: productivity software, things like Google Search and Google Advertising, which 590 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: I realize remedies are coming for, but I really think 591 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: a lot of these are going to remain unchallenged, and 592 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 2: even if they're not, I don't think anything exists to 593 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: make these companies start getting better. But what I'm really 594 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: describing is an era of industrial contempt for the consumer, 595 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: a continuation of what I described in the Invisible War 596 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: and the Invisible War criminals from last year take decides 597 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: that they will do whatever they want to consume us 598 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: within the boundaries of the law, but with little consideration 599 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 2: of good taste, user happiness, or anything other than growth. 600 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: Now how this manifests in Facebook and Instagram will be 601 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: fairly obvious. I believe that the already fucked up state 602 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,719 Speaker 2: of these platforms will just massively accelerate. Meta is going 603 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 2: to push as much aislop as it wants, both created 604 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 2: by its generative models and their users, and massively up 605 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 2: content that riles up users with little regard for the consequences. 606 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 2: And I wouldn't be surprised if the generative content is 607 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 2: political too. Instagram will become more exploitative and more volatile. 608 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: Instagram ads have been steadily getting more problematic, and I 609 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: think Meta will start taking ads from just about anyone, 610 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 2: and this will internal lead to an initial revenue bump. 611 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 2: But then I hypothesize a steady bleed of users that 612 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: will take a few quarters to truly emerge, and we're 613 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 2: already kind of seeing it with Facebook. Go back to 614 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 2: the rock combubble from last year. Sadly, I think we're 615 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 2: already seeing the abuse. These abusive practices come out elsewhere. 616 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 2: Both Google and Microsoft are now forcing generative AI features 617 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: onto customers, with Google drifting business users by increasing the 618 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: cost of Google Workspace by two dollars per user per 619 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 2: month along with adding AI features that they didn't want, 620 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 2: and Microsoft has now raised the price of consumer office subscriptions, 621 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 2: justifying the move by adding Copilot AI features that again 622 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 2: nobody really wants. The informations. John Victor and Aaron Holmes 623 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: add that's yet to be seen what Microsoft does with 624 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: their corporate customers using Microsoft three sixty five Productivity Suite. 625 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 2: Adding Copilot costs, by the way, thirty dollars per use 626 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 2: per month. But I also hypothesize that they're going to 627 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 2: do exactly the same thing that Google did. They're going 628 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 2: to knock up the prices and they're going to go 629 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 2: but you've got free AI isn't free? Isn't free? If 630 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 2: I have to pay more? Mate, that's not how free works. 631 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 2: I should also be clear that the reason they're doing 632 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 2: this is because they're desperate. These companies must express growth 633 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 2: every single quarterly earnings or see their stock prices. Creator 634 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: and big tech companies have oriented themselves around growth as 635 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 2: a result, meaning that they're not really used to having 636 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: to do things like compete for a customer or make 637 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 2: a product that the customer might like. For over a decade, 638 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: tech has been rewarded for creating growth opportunities empowered by 639 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 2: monopolistic practices. And I'd argue that the cultures that created 640 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 2: the products that people remember actually liking, Yeah, they're dead. 641 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 2: They've been killed. And the people that did them, the 642 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 2: people that built those products, well, they've been strangled to 643 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 2: they've been pushed out of the tech industry. The soldiers 644 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 2: of the rot economy are manifold, and they're willing to 645 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: do whatever it takes to make things grow. And you 646 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 2: are more than likely already seeing signs that this is happening. 647 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 2: The little features on products you use that feel broken, 648 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 2: like when you try and crop an image and iOS 649 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 2: and it sometimes doesn't actually crop it, and when the 650 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 2: copy link button on Google Docs doesn't work, when a 651 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 2: Google search gives you a page of forum links that 652 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 2: don't answer your question. I expect things to get worse, 653 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 2: possibly a new and incredibly frustrating ways, and being a 654 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: little dramatic with all that stuff. But these are the 655 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 2: little niggling problems in your head. These are things poking 656 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,919 Speaker 2: you in the head as you use these apps every day. 657 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 2: Don't pretend like this shit doesn't piss you off. Don't 658 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 2: pretend that the little interruptions, the little problems you get 659 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 2: from these things don't annoy you. And if they don't, great, 660 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 2: I wish I could engage you the level of calm. 661 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 2: I'm very mentally healthy. It may not come across in 662 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 2: the podcast, but I find these things just very frustrating 663 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 2: because there's no way in hell that the people using 664 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 2: these products don't see them, or they don't use their products. 665 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 2: Both of these are utterly reprehensible, and I deeply worry 666 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 2: that we're going to enter now into the most irresponsible 667 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 2: era of tech, yet not just in the harms that 668 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 2: companies allow or perpetuate, but in the full rejection of 669 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 2: their stewardship from the products themselves. Our digital lives are 670 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 2: already chaotic and poisonous, different incentives warring for our attention, 671 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 2: user interfaces corroded by those who believe everything is justified 672 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 2: in pursuit of growth. And I fear that the subtle 673 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 2: little problems you see every day will both multiple and expand, 674 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 2: and that the core services we use will break down 675 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 2: because I believe the most powerful people in tech never 676 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: really gave a shit and no longer believe that they 677 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 2: have to pretend otherwise. Now, like the end of every episode, 678 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 2: you may think, head, that's all just very sad. There 679 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: is a funny thing I'm hypothesizing happens. I think as 680 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 2: crappy as these companies are going to get, I think 681 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 2: users are just gonna stop using stuff. They're all saying, oh, well, 682 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: they don't have anywhere else to go. We've got more 683 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 2: Facebook and Instagram. They're fucked. What they're gonna do not 684 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 2: use Instagram or Facebook. Yes, yes, I actually think that 685 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 2: that's what's really coming. I think that these companies assume 686 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 2: that they are unkillable. They assume that because they've never 687 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 2: really been held accountable, not by governments, not by the media, 688 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 2: though there are people in the media who have nevertheless 689 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 2: never consistently accountable and certainly not for the quality of 690 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 2: the services they provide. They're arrogant, they're lazy. There are 691 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 2: probably startups that could come for them. There are genuinely 692 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 2: ways that these companies can be stopped. And though they 693 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 2: may be unrepentant in the dogshit they serve you, they're 694 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 2: only doing that because they're desperate, but also because they 695 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 2: don't think there's ever gonna be other competition, and history 696 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 2: has kind of proven that that never happens, that there 697 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 2: is always a bigger fish. To quote Qui gon Jin 698 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 2: in The Phantom Menace, classic movie about trade. Anyway, the 699 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 2: port are making is nothing's nothing is unkillable, nothing's unstoppable. 700 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 2: Every empire, even the worst one, ends. There is a 701 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 2: good chance in the next ten years that Meta actually collapses. 702 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg is doing this meaningless, fake masculine bullshare because 703 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 2: he realizes he doesn't have much left. He may have 704 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 2: all that money, but his platforms suck, his users hate them. 705 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 2: He's twisted and hurt people, billions of people time. He 706 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 2: knows that the party's ending. Online advertising is falling apart. 707 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 2: I think things are going to get very interesting in 708 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 2: the next years. And frankly, in the next months. But 709 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 2: I'll leave you with some hope. Again, none of these 710 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 2: companies are unkillable. Every single company in tech history that's 711 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 2: thought they were died. MySpace died, and yeah it was 712 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 2: a different circumstance. But Meta, while they may seem unstoppable, 713 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 2: relies on advertising for ninety nine percent of their revenue. 714 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 2: Things like ad blockers, things like even subtle changes in 715 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 2: the EU about how ads can be served to customers, 716 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 2: like the opt in feature for ads is deadly for them. 717 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 2: If anything happens to online ads, Meta will die. AI 718 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 2: is not going to save them. AI will not save 719 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg. And if he truly pulls the top off 720 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 2: of this and says, you know what, I'm just going 721 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 2: to serve them shit at scale, I'm just going to 722 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 2: slop them up, slop them up, AI, slop in every profile. 723 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 2: No one's going to go on Facebook anymore. They're already 724 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 2: losing traffic. If they do that to Instagram, which is 725 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 2: the one meaningful thing they still have, they're completely double fucked. 726 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 2: And if you think that Google Search can't be competed 727 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 2: with eh, I don't even think that that's the case either. 728 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 2: I think the remedies of that trial mean that they 729 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 2: have to start sharing their search data. All of these 730 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 2: companies can be beaten with or without regulation, but it 731 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 2: also starts with not using their shit anymore. I'm really 732 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 2: working out how I can start deleting myself from these services. 733 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,919 Speaker 2: I don't know how I'm going to do it. I'm 734 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 2: already going to delete myself from Threads after this. I 735 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 2: need Instagram. That are people that like I can't talk 736 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 2: to elsewhere. I don't know, not super close friends, or 737 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 2: just people that like talking on them more than elsewhere. 738 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 2: Some of you probably feel like that too. Don't give up, hope, 739 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 2: all right, don't There's the whole thing about not bending 740 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 2: the knee and all that, But a big thing that 741 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: authoritarianism really wants from you is to give up in advance. 742 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 2: It's not just about controlling you. It's about making it 743 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 2: so that you don't stay angry, that you don't stay 744 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 2: outraged at these people. I'm trying really not to tell 745 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 2: you how to feel here. I'm just saying, if you 746 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 2: feel the frustration with these companies, all that these people 747 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg especially have is their names. You think Mark Zuckerberg's 748 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 2: going on the Joe Rogan experience and going m men 749 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 2: and men are mistreated because he's secure. No, all of 750 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,879 Speaker 2: these men, all they have is their names. So talk 751 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 2: about the things they've done. Tell people about how bad 752 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 2: Facebook is now maybe they know, maybe they've never really 753 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 2: looked close enough. I can't give you the exact skeleton 754 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 2: key to life, but I can tell you things get 755 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 2: better through discussions. Things get better through everybody agreeing that 756 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 2: things should be better. It's a start. I really appreciate 757 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 2: all of you listening to this show. Better Offlone's going 758 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 2: to be so weird this year. The whole talk radio 759 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 2: segment was so good in CES and I enjoy doing 760 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 2: them in person at the beautiful Eyeheart Radio Studios, New York. 761 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 2: If you've made it this far, you must really like 762 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 2: well boys, So thank you for listening. We will be 763 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 2: back next week. We'll be back next week with another 764 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 2: talk radio segment. Thank you, Thank you for listening to 765 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 2: Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline 766 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 2: theme song is Matasowski. You can check out more of 767 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 2: his music and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M 768 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 2: A T T O, S O W s ki dot com. 769 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,879 Speaker 2: You can email me at easy at better Offline dot 770 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 2: com or visit better Offline dot com to find more 771 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 2: podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really 772 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 2: recommend you go to chat dot Where's Youreed dot at 773 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 2: to visit the discord, and go to our slash Better 774 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 2: Offline to check out our reddit. Thank you so much 775 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 2: for listening. 776 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For 777 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia 778 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the Heart radio app, 779 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. H