1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Quality times, but Joseph's gotten more. I've often thought about 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: this because I see such a broad swath of true 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: crime coverage and information about a variety of different deaths. 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: You know, the country might be focused on, say, for instance, 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: one thing that's going on like right now at the 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: time of this taping, and we've got like the Karen 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: Reid trial going on. We've got a variety of other 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: things involving Coburger and Hureman and all these things that 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: are waiting in the wings. There's a lot of ink 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: being slung about. And I've often thought over the years, 11 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: do we develop patterns as a consumer consumer public as 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: it applies to true crime. And the reason I ask 13 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: that to my cell is that do we get so 14 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: caught up in cases where because they're in the public 15 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: I that maybe other things will be forgotten. I'll give 16 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: you a great example, and I've talked about this case 17 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: extensively and been on various television shows and stuff, And 18 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: that's a piked and masker back from sixteen up in 19 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: southern Ohio. You had eight family members killed in that case, 20 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: and hardly an ounce of ink was spilt over it. 21 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: But yet you had other things that were singular deaths 22 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: where the coverage was just intense, you know, things like 23 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: I don't know the Jody Arias case going back to 24 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. It all depends on what hits, you know 25 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: what I mean. Right now, we're in the middle of 26 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: the Hureman case, which is lisk in Gilgo Beach, and 27 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: it's all the rage. Everybody wants to talk about it, 28 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: as well as should. But you know, there's another group 29 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: of deaths that have made their way into the news cycle, 30 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: and some people are hinting that there might be a 31 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: serial killer on the loose in a specific region of 32 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: our country. Now are these deaths related, I don't know. 33 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: Is that a consequence of maybe all of the news 34 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: about human I don't know, or is their validity to this? 35 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: Are people putting two and two together? Let's chat about it. 36 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags. I 37 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: think that as humans day, our lives are all about patterns. 38 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: You know, there's certain ways that we go about things. 39 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: There's certain things that we view, there's certain things that 40 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: we consume and read and all of those and you know, 41 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: I think about things that you know, for instance, that 42 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: I watch on YouTube. I watch generally nothing political. I 43 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: watch nothing about true crime unless it's something that i'm studying. 44 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: Most of the time, the stuff that I direct myself 45 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: toward is history. You know, I love to study history 46 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: in the classics, and that's a pattern I've developed over 47 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: the years. You've been in media for a long time, 48 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: and you've been I don't know, I love this old term. 49 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: I would classify you as a newsman. You were, You 50 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: were a news reader for many years and have covered 51 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: news all over the country, and I'm just I'm curious. 52 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: Do you do you think the media develops pattern. 53 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm more of a I am more of a 54 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: commentator than a news reader. And the reason is real basics. 55 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: I've had to explain this to my family recently, and 56 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: that is as far as reading goes, I'm a voracious reader. 57 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: I read a lot, but I don't read word for word. 58 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: I paraphrase as I read, and you can't do that 59 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: when you're a news anchorman. I'm not a news anchorman. 60 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: I am actually a reporter, journalist, and a commentator. So 61 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: I ended up on Nancy Show to start with. You know, 62 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: you have an expertise that very few people possess. And 63 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 2: because it comes from an education in the classroom, and 64 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 2: it comes in from work in the field and by 65 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: the way, being successful at both at the academics and 66 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 2: in the field, and you're able to bring that together 67 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: and then you have that next level talent of being 68 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 2: able to make people like me understand what it is 69 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: you're talking about. And I don't even think you realize 70 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: how good you are at what you do. And I'm 71 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: coming from broadcasting end of it, Joe, You're able to 72 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 2: take like I'm excited about doing this particular show because 73 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 2: it has the broadcasting end of it, the angle. We've 74 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: named it already, Nesk. You mentioned the Long Island serial 75 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: killer RECs hereman calling it LISK. This one has already 76 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: been named NESK. The New England serial Killer is their one. 77 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: And this story has gotten legs because of social media. 78 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: There are Facebook pages devoted to it, and Twitter accounts 79 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 2: and x accounts and tiktoks are being devoted and we're 80 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: talking thousands of people by the day asking questions about 81 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: this story. We have right now six six female bodies 82 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: recovered between March sixth and April tenth in one area 83 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 2: of the northeast. 84 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: So wow, we've only tight that's a very tight window 85 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: from yes, Tom sequencing as far as it is, and it's. 86 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 2: Recent, it's right now. I mean it's like, you know, 87 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: we're talking two weeks ago, Joe, when you and I 88 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: were up in East Hampton, right, what was the name 89 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: of the place that we landed in ice Lip? 90 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 3: Right? The Long Island. 91 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, one of our victims actually is from there, and 92 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: we were just there a couple of weeks ago as 93 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: a couple of these bodies were being recovered on April 94 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 2: ninth and April tenth. So this is a somewhat media 95 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: generated event, but it's coming from the ground swell of 96 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: true crime people, armchair detectives, if you will. Something you 97 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: and I talked about at a conn a conference, how 98 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: not important, but how impactful it is that some stories 99 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: get attention while others don't. And now you know you 100 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: mentioned piked in I. Until you and I talked about it, 101 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 2: I did nothing about it. I knew nothing about that story. 102 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: And then when I got into it, I'm like, how 103 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: do we. 104 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 3: Not know about this? 105 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: But Joe, there are stories that you and I have 106 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: covered and spent many hours on that other people are 107 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: going When did that happen was that and you're going 108 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: it happened three weeks ago, you know that kind of thing. 109 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 3: So it's hit and missed with a lot of You have. 110 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: To run, You have to run to keep up many times. 111 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: And it's I don't know if you concur with this, 112 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: but it's almost like there are rarely cases where a 113 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: gigantic gate comes down and you have to stop what 114 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: you're doing and you focus everything on those cases. You know, 115 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: you look at lisk with Long Island, Long Island serial 116 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: Killer so called, you think about that, and you might 117 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: if you look at it chronologically, you know, from the 118 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: first body that was found until the very life asked. 119 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: I don't know that there was like some huge gait 120 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: that descended and everybody stopped and looked. It took a 121 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: long time and a lot of people grinding over the scene, 122 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: and not just not just the law enforcement people, but 123 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: people in the media that knew that something was up 124 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: and they tried to keep the story alive. And I 125 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: think the one it's I think, I'm just curious if 126 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: this is if this is fertile ground for a cautionary tale, 127 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: because I'm worried. I'm worried about this based upon somebody 128 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: that has assessed cerial homicides, okay, over the course of 129 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: my career, and I'm trying to understand is because there's 130 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: just certain things that we look for now. I just 131 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: want to know if those elements are there. 132 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: And that's why I am so thankful that you have 133 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: the time to do this, because I'm watching members of 134 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: the media and they are salivating over Nesk the New 135 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: England serial killer. And my first question, Joe, is this 136 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 2: something that you're familiar with, not the way it's being covered, 137 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: but are you familiar with serial killers and figuring out 138 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: what happened? Is this something you've worked before, Is it 139 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 2: something you can teach? Is it What are we actually 140 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: doing when it comes to this, because we've got armchair 141 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: detectives with no education and no background that are making 142 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: accusations and casting us versions and creating a media serial killer. 143 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: Yet we've got three females identified that remains identified. We're 144 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: talking about somebody's mother, somebody's daughter, somebody's sister that we 145 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 2: didn't find, a body we found remains Yeah, I think 146 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: there's a bit of a difference. I need you to 147 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: help me. I need you to explain to me what 148 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: a serial killer is, how do you identify that? And 149 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 2: does this fit? 150 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, if okay, let's just say if all of 151 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: the these cases are related, Yeah, it meets the classic 152 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: definition three or more, and that number has varied for years. 153 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: I think at one point in time the number was 154 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: higher and then they reduced it. And I think it 155 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: was reduced by the people at the Behavioral Sciences Unit 156 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: in Quantico with FBI, they pulled it back down to three. 157 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: I might be wrong about that, but I think initially 158 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: the number was higher. So yeah, from that, from that 159 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: basic precept, yeah, this would be this would qualify as 160 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: a series of serialized homicides. But we still we're just 161 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: this case. We don't even know that these are homicides 162 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: at this point in time. We don't because I got 163 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, I don't know about you. 164 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: Everything I've read, I haven't seen a cause of death yet, 165 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: I Joe, you know, and I just you know, what 166 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: I know is that we've got there's a big similarity here, 167 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: because well, let's just look at it geographically. You know, 168 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: it's the northeast, and you can I don't know, I 169 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: guess you could say that you could proverbial throw a 170 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: proverbial hat over the areas. I think that most of 171 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: the areas where these women's bodies have been found are 172 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 1: like in a one hundred mile radius or maybe a 173 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: little bit more. Yeah, so, yeah, geographically it could fit, 174 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: but we're missing huge pieces here. You know, every serialized 175 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: homicide I've ever worked, and I'm thinking back right now, 176 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: over the course of my career in New Orleans, I 177 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: think I worked three sets of serial killings down there 178 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: somewhere somewhere. On one case in particular, I just knew 179 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: that there were probably hundreds of bodies up and down 180 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: IT ten and the guy had been called the IT 181 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: ten killer a variety of names. I had another set 182 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: that guy killed six women and he was caught actually 183 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: dumping the body in the same location where he dumped 184 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: all the other ones. The sheriff's office finally set up 185 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: a hide and was watching literally saw it caught him 186 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: pulling a body out of the trunk of a car. 187 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 3: That's kind of like Wayne will Williams in Atlanta. 188 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, with splashing the water. Yeah. And then there 189 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: were there was another set and my memory fails me 190 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: on that one. But when I got to Atlanta. Yeah, 191 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: we had several Memorial Drive killer was killing prostitutes. We 192 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: had the Von City Killer. There were like two or 193 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: three other ones too that we thought were cereal serial related. 194 00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: And you know, the thing about it is is that 195 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: you have to establish a pattern. And I think one 196 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: of the big missing pieces here is that we don't 197 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: if we don't have a causal statement relative to what 198 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: brought about these deaths. That's a big piece, okay, because 199 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: most serial killers, they have a preference for how they 200 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: take people's lives. I'll give you an example. The guy 201 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: was telling me about it was pulling the bodies out 202 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: of the trunk of the car. He loved to use 203 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: wire to use as a groat around the necks of 204 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: these prostitutes, and he would drug them beforehand, and then 205 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: the groat is essentially got a one little handle and 206 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: you can tighten it down, loosen it, and he would 207 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 1: loosen it multiple times. He was driving pleasure from this 208 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: guy was a sadist and filled with a lot of anger. 209 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: He'd kill women. Every time he got into a fight 210 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: with his fiance. He wouldn't attack her. You go out 211 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: and find it prostituct killer, Oh. 212 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: My gosh, yeah, no, using the garroat like that. 213 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, the guy, the clown in Chicago that buried the 214 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: gay sy. 215 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: That's what he used. 216 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: He would play all kinds of little tricks and things 217 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: to get the handcuff. 218 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: Trick and all of that. And yeah, and he and 219 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: again he was another guy that hadn't come to terms 220 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: with his own homosexuality. Is very angry. 221 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 3: Uh. 222 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: And he would use ligatures, which a groat is a 223 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: form of a ligature, or bare hands. But you know, 224 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: you're thinking about suffocation or strangulation. I've you know, And 225 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: it's interesting, Dave. You know that the line share of 226 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: the cases that I worked involved a SIXIA. I never 227 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: had like a I don't know what's the guy's name 228 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: up in New York, Son, Sam, I never had, you know, 229 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: they called him the forty four caliber killer. I never 230 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: worked serial killings that involved handguns or rifles even you know, 231 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: it's just firearms. I don't think I ever worked Yeah, 232 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: I don't think I ever worked a case involved in 233 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: serial killing with an edged weapon. They now, I've had 234 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: multiple people killed by one person wielding an edge weapon, 235 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: but not like a series of going out and stabbing 236 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: somebody or cutting their throats and that sort of thing. 237 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: I didn't realize you'd worked so many, Okay, I didn't 238 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: think there were that many serial killings, like when you 239 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: started naming them off, you know, Yeah, I didn't realize 240 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: there were that many, And I certainly didn't know you 241 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: had had this was part and parcel of your Yeah. 242 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: And I think about it with serial killings dependent upon 243 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: their geographic positioning, I think that it's more the exception. 244 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: And somebody's going to gig me on this, I know, 245 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: it seems to me that it's more the exception than 246 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: the norm to have somebody that's like a BTK that's 247 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: settled in a community, has been there for years and 248 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: years and is not moving about to hunt prey. You know, 249 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: they're hunting in the one little area. And I know 250 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: people say that they hunt with areas they're familiar with, 251 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: But if you look at long haul truckers, where are 252 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: they familiar with, Well, they're familiar with their truck, that's 253 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: their moving house, and they're familiar with truck stops, and 254 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: so you get that, you know, quite a bit. So 255 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: there's kind of a mish mash out there. Just like 256 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: over the years, there's been a a mish mash or 257 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: not not a mishmash, but kind of a confusion about 258 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: the number of kills that it takes to be classified 259 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: as a serial killer. This area that we're talking about 260 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: in the Northeast day, my gosh, there are interstates running everywhere, 261 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: and so, you know, I was talking about, you know, 262 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: kind of throwing the proverbial hat on this. If you're 263 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,119 Speaker 1: thinking about, you know, an area that's kind of circling 264 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: a particular location. How can they get in, how can 265 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: they get out? What's the geography like, where are they 266 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: found relative to roadways, what's the terrain like where they're recovered. 267 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: Are they just being dumped out inside the road? Are 268 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: they being placed in water? Which one of these cases 269 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: I know was found in a river. So there's a 270 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: lot to consider here, But this is what I do 271 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 1: know at this point in time. I do know that 272 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: I don't have a cause of death on these victims, 273 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: and I also know that to that end, I don't 274 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: know if there is a connectivity between the types of death, 275 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: the instrumentality that may or may not have been used, 276 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: and also is there a common denominator relative to the 277 00:17:44,840 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: perpetrator thing being called again, David was Immedia. 278 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: It's being called NESTS stands for New England serial Killer. 279 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 2: One thing I did want to pop in here with 280 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: Joe because I looked it up. You were and I 281 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: were talking about I twenty and you were right. It 282 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: ends in Texas at the intersection of I ten and 283 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: I thought it was in West Texas. 284 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 3: So there you go. But yeah, the law there you 285 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 3: got the. 286 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer, which has been in the news now, 287 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: to be honest with you, for a long time, it was, 288 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: you know, from It's been called different things too, and 289 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: I still think there could be another person involved. But 290 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: and the other question, do you really think Hureman stopped? 291 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 2: But that's another day. Now we've got this New England 292 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 2: serial killer story and the reason is we have six 293 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 2: women who have been found. Now, I want to be 294 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 2: really clear and how I asked this show, when I 295 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: asked you about serial killers and how many serial killer 296 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: cases you've worked, and is there a commonality among the 297 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: victims as well as the perpetrator that. 298 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: You can creator? Yeah, I can't. And I'm only talking 299 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: about my little slice supply, all right. I don't have 300 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: the forty thousand foot view that the FBI has I'm 301 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: just talking about my little slice suppie the areas I 302 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: worked in. Okay, my commonality perpetrator, I've the best of 303 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: my knowledge, at least, I never had a female perpetrator. 304 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: They were all males, and with the exception of the 305 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: Vine City killings in Atlanta, who were all elderly ladies, 306 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: which is disgusting on another level, entirely, they were prostitutes 307 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: almost to a person, you know, I didn't have this 308 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: kind of like you have would BTK where he's randomly targeting. 309 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: I mean literally, you know, the first the first victims 310 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: that he claimed were literally a nuclear family. 311 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 3: I was gonna say it was a family in the base, Yeah. 312 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, Terra and they he went in and walked out 313 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: the lot. And so, you know, it's it's always been 314 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: in my case, at least, it's always been female prostitutes. 315 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: I haven't I have not know. I have had friends 316 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: that have worked or colleagues that have worked cases involving 317 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: male prostitutes. Over the years. Myself, it's always been female prostitutes. 318 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: The line share of them have been you know, living 319 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: on the streets, had very and this is kind of 320 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: a classic profile, had very little contact with their biological family. 321 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, many times families wouldn't even know what 322 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: had happened to him. That's what makes them such easy prey. 323 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: But I don't you know as of right now, where 324 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: you know if they're building out a profile. And I 325 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: would assume that some of the authorities have reached out 326 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: and I've got a big clue to that, and I'm 327 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: going to reveal it to you about trying to build 328 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: out a profile. If they are believing that these are 329 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: a serialized event, you're going to want to know what 330 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: these individuals backgrounds are, and you know, if there's some 331 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: kind of commonality. Now the reason that I think that 332 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: a profile could be built out, and again, we don't 333 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: know everything the police know at this time, and we 334 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: should not know everything that the police know. You know, 335 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: these are outside so horses that are putting together these things. Okay, 336 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: so the police. This is the way it generally works. 337 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: If you have a serialized event and it's multi jurisdictional, 338 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: the first thing you're going to do is that there 339 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: will generally be a task force formed in a single jurisdiction. 340 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: So let's say you've got multiple bodies that are found 341 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: in the state of Connecticut. Okay, Well, under the auspices 342 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: of the state, they can get together and they will 343 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: form a task force within that state. All right, Now, 344 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: if you've got one case, which there is one case 345 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: in this group that they've identified as nests that originates 346 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: out of Rhode Island, Dave, that person will not necessarily 347 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: be on the task force. And then there's another case. 348 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: There's cases out of Massachusetts and I think New Hampshire 349 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: as well, So you've got it's multi jurisdictional. So how 350 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: do you unite all of these people? Well, first off, 351 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 1: you have to be able to prove that there's connectivity 352 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: with physical evidence, cause of death, typology of the way 353 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: they were found, what was perpetrated against them, and that 354 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: includes things like any kind of instruments that we use, 355 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: Was there any kind of posing that was done with 356 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: the bodies, where they missing closed, where they all clothed, 357 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: was their clothing manipulated, were there any kind of post 358 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: mortem amputations that people taking trophies, anything like that. And 359 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: then what would happen is the next tier with this 360 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: will be the FEDS, and it'll be like the FBI. 361 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: They would form a federal task force and the FBI 362 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: would begin to work probably on a profile of not 363 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: just the victims, but also the potential perpetrator here. So 364 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that have to get into 365 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: motion in order to get everybody going in the correct direction. 366 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: One things I found out about being on a task force, 367 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: and again I'm just a corner medical examiner kind of guy. 368 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't like going out and arresting people I was examining. 369 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: Remains the one thing that I have found though, and 370 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: I was always fascinated by, was with these task force 371 00:23:53,840 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: there is ego comes into it big time because everybody 372 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: wants everybody wants the claim to fame if it turns 373 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: out to be Let's just say, for instance, like with Lisk, 374 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: if you've got a multi jurisdictional thing, you know, everybody 375 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: would like to say, well, you know, we're the people 376 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: that stopped Lisk. Okay, same thing would apply here. You 377 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: have to remain You have to have a leader of 378 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: the group that's going to keep you focused on what 379 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: the task is at hand. So if you've got this 380 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: really divergent group of women we're talking six here, three 381 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: of which are still unidentified to this point, are you 382 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: going to be able to jam down those egos and 383 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: stay focused, like a laser, focus on what the task 384 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: is and that is ultimately getting this monster off the streets. 385 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: All right now, I've got a question for you because 386 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 2: we do have a lot of We have a lot 387 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 2: of information, and I think I already told you this. 388 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: We have three of the remains identified and three not identified. 389 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: So let me start with the one woman, not the 390 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: first one to go missing. Because even though they were 391 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: all found in the last month or so, in the 392 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 2: last several weeks, that doesn't mean they were killed right 393 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 2: away or that they died right away. 394 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: We don't even know they were killed. We just know 395 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 3: we have remains. We don't know if they were murdered. 396 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 3: You know, we don't know what we do know. 397 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: Like Page fan In, for example, Page fan In's body 398 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: was found on March the sixth page is from this 399 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 2: is the lady I was talking about from Icelip that 400 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 2: you and I flew into and she was reported missing 401 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 2: in New York on March fourth of this year, last 402 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: scene on March fifth, and her body was found March sixth. 403 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 2: This does not seem to fit into any of the 404 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 2: other cases that we're talking about because of where her 405 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 2: body was found, and how quickly you know she was 406 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: found based on when she was last seen, and she 407 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: was found in water after a very heavy rainfall. But 408 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 2: that was hers was the first body located found. The 409 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 2: next was Denise Leary. Denise Leary was found on March 410 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 2: twentieth of twenty twenty five. Denise was reported missing Joe 411 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: back last September. And that's where I look at that 412 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 2: and go, Okay, her condition, the remains of her, is 413 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 2: going to be a lot different than the remains of 414 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 2: Page Fannin. I mean, you have Paige Fannin that was 415 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 2: actually seen the day before her body was found, right, 416 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 2: And then we have one other woman who has been identified. 417 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 2: Her name is Michelle Romano. Her body was found on 418 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 2: March twenty sixth. She went missing August of last year. 419 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 2: That is a long time, yeah, it is. 420 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: And of course her body, her body would be in 421 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: more than an advanced state of decomposition. Let's go back 422 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: to Page Fannin real quick now. We mentioned that she's 423 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: from West Island, New York, which is on Long Island, 424 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: as you and I are now well aware of. 425 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 2: And by the way, until two weeks ago, I could 426 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: not have told you where it was just so you know, yeah, yeah, 427 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 2: it's it's I mean that in a positive way. I've 428 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 2: always wanted to know that area. But I'm to be 429 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 2: honest with your friends. If you're not from New York, 430 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: if you're not from that area, it's kind of like 431 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 2: I'm from I am from southern California, and so I 432 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 2: know what people think out there. It's just different than 433 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 2: you can imagine. What a beautiful area and the nicest 434 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: people I've ever met, Jerry, the nicest. 435 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 3: People I've ever met in my life. That really were unbelievable. 436 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: And I enjoyed going up there every year for the 437 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: Hampton who done it, uh with with Paige Fannin. You know, 438 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: she was actually from West Island, but she was down 439 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: in a river in Connecticut, and so she's you know, 440 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: she was found as a result of them asking for 441 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: She was found with the assistance of a drone actually, 442 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: and so she was up there for a reason, okay, 443 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: and where she fell into and I don't know that 444 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: you know, just because you fall into a very fast 445 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: moving river, which she was actually found in the Norwalk River, 446 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: and it's like racing through there. And I don't know 447 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: if you've ever been caught up in a current like 448 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: that before in a river. I have almost drowned in 449 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: a salmon fishing a river up in Michigan one day, 450 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: and you know, it just kind of pulled me down 451 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: the river, and I'm a pretty stout guy and I 452 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: couldn't fight it. So if you're thinking about with her, 453 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: what types of injuries did she display when they pulled 454 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: her out of the water. And she's only been down 455 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: for a couple of days, so it's not like she 456 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: was left somewhere out in the woods where she's in 457 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: a state of decay. So that's kind of an interesting 458 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: person that they've put into this mix. I'd like to 459 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: know for my purposes as an investigator, Dave, and I'm 460 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: in all honesty, I would go to the local authorities 461 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: up there in Connectu. I'd say, hey, let me ask 462 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: you something. How many other people have you ever had 463 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: drowned in this river? Are found dead in this river? 464 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: Is this something that happens regularly or is this so 465 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: rare that you're sitting here scratching your head thinking had 466 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: you wind up in the river, Because this has never 467 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: happened before. So I would have to kind of understand 468 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: that and understand the dynamic around the river. How do 469 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: you get to it? Can you fall off a bridge? 470 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: Can you slip off of rocks? You know what's the 471 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: story here? 472 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 2: So you know, we're immedately thinking if it's not an accident, 473 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 2: somebody picked this and got discarded her body. 474 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's the thing about it. If you go 475 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: down the road with serialized event, if the river is 476 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: moving this fast, which that's the way they've portrayed this thing. 477 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: Lord only knows where she could have gone in. You know, 478 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: how long does the Norwalk River run. It's obviously not 479 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: the Mississippi, But how far upstream could she have potentially 480 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: gone in? Did she fall into the water where she 481 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: was laying her head at night to go to sleep, 482 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: or was she so far away from her point of 483 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: origin that you would think, hm, wow, this is kind 484 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: of impressive that her body traveled all of this distance. 485 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: Where did she enter the river? Also? What types of 486 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: injuries does she have to her body? I pulled a 487 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: lot of bodies out of rivers, bodies of water, and 488 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: it's amazing what happens to a body in in water, 489 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: particularly rapidly moving water, because bodies bounce off of everything, 490 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,719 Speaker 1: they get scratched by limbs that are hanging out debris, 491 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: they get caught up in debris. You'll see bodies that 492 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: will actually have leaves and grass in their mouth and 493 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: their nose. They'll be covered in mud because they'll go 494 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: into like a mud bank then become dislodged. You know. 495 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: So it's a huge dynamic that you're having to deal 496 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: with in a case like page fans of course. 497 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: Okay, so she's the first body found, and by the way, 498 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 2: she was found two days after she was reported missing. 499 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 2: So let's move to Denise Leary. Denise Leary, Joe was 500 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: reported missing or it was last seen September twenty ninth 501 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 2: of last year. 502 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 3: And I don't know if you do this. I know 503 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 3: I do. 504 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 2: I think of where was I on September twenty ninth 505 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four, Where was I and what was 506 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 2: I doing? 507 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: I do it too, Yep. 508 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: Okay, this makes it relatable for me and for family 509 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 2: when I try to figure out what happened, to try 510 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 2: to explain it, what happened with her that we know of. 511 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: Well, you know, again, she's actually found not in water. 512 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: She's actually found in the one hundred block of a 513 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: place called Rock Creek Road that were clearing brush, okay 514 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: out of a wooded area and they made this discovery. Now, 515 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: she's last seen in September day, September twenty ninth, found 516 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: in March March of this year, March twentieth, to be specific. 517 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: Can I tell you this. She's in such an advanced 518 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: state that the police to this day are still waiting 519 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: from the medical examiner to find out what her cause 520 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: of pent or death are. That's how difficult this is. 521 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: And here's one other thing about her that if you 522 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: begin to kind of profile victims and try to understand, 523 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: because you have to understand where they come from, you know, 524 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: what their background is, what would well, allegedly, you know, 525 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: miss Leary had suffered from paranoid schizphrenia. Now that doesn't 526 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: mean on any level that people that are dealing with 527 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: psychopathology can't be victims of serial killers, Okay, because there 528 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: are a lot of people out on the streets that 529 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: have terrible mental health issues, and there's weak as lambs. 530 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: You might be terrified of them when you're standing around them, 531 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: but they really are. They don't have the ability necessarily 532 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: to defend themselves, particularly a defended a diminutive little woman 533 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: like miss Leary. So if if she's out there, yeah, 534 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: could she potentially be prey for a serial killer? Yeah? 535 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: I suppose that she could be. How she getting by 536 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: if she's living on the streets, how she getting by 537 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: on the read? Did she have family members who regularly 538 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: checked in with Was she eating regularly? You know? Was 539 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: she taking medication? Because if she's been diagnosed with paranoids goods, 540 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: you have to think that she's got a doctor or 541 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 1: a therapist that's having to maintenance her. When's the last 542 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: time they saw When's the last time she had her meds? 543 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: So that's that's a big question here. But she's found 544 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: in a brushy area and she's in an advanced state 545 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: of decomposition. Was she drug there to be hidden? You know? 546 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: From view? Well, it was the status of her clothing, 547 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: because even if you've got a decomposing body, I think 548 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 1: the people think that the clothing decomposes as well. I 549 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: actually have students say that to me at one point 550 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: in time. Clothing is very resilient. So even as the 551 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: body swells and then begins to contract back, the clothing 552 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: is still going to be in place. If they were 553 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,959 Speaker 1: closed to begin with, so that's something that you would 554 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: certainly consider in this case. 555 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 2: I have a favorite aunt, Joe, that lived with mental illness, 556 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 2: and she was one of my favorite people of all times, 557 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 2: but there were times where it would be very difficult 558 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 2: for my mother to deal with her, you know. And 559 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: that's why whenever people immediately jump to a conclusion because 560 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 2: of mental health, it always bothers me because you really 561 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 2: have to know every person, whether they have mental health 562 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 2: issues or not, is different. We're all unique specimens in 563 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 2: a lot of ways. Michelle Romano Joe Michelle Romano went 564 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: missing on August eighteenth of last year. Her remains were 565 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: discovered on March twenty sixth, and her remains were found 566 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 2: or the Rhode Island State Police reported this one. This 567 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 2: goes back to you. I didn't. I'm going to be 568 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:56,879 Speaker 2: honest with you, and I hope a lot of people 569 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 2: caught you when you said this earlier about the different 570 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 2: jurisdictions that are going to be dealing with all of these. 571 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 2: As we collectively look at six women who have been 572 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 2: found dead in this very small geographic area, I think 573 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: each one of them is in a different law enforcement jurisdiction. 574 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 2: And how will that play into solving this, right, if 575 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 2: they're tied together. 576 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, if in fact they are tied together, you're going 577 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: to have to find that one thread. You know, if 578 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: you imagine, and I'm kind of a simple guy, I 579 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: love work pictures, if you literally imagine a thread being 580 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: pulled by a gigantic needle. What is it that connects 581 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: all of these cases together? That commonality, you know, that 582 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: kind of runs through them? And again, you know, like 583 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: in the case of miss Romano, there's connectivity perhaps with 584 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: the way miss Leary was found and the way Miss 585 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: Romano is found. First off, miss Ramano was reported missing 586 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: back on August eighteenth of twenty twenty four. Well, you 587 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: know that's that's dredibly close to you know, the same 588 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: date with you know, miss Leary, she's September twenty ninth 589 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: of two thousand and four. And again, mister Romano is 590 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: not found until March twenty sixth of twenty five. And 591 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: here's the other commonality between Leary and Romano. They're both 592 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: found in wooded areas. Okay, so you know, if you're 593 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: looking for little things to kind of pin together here, 594 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,800 Speaker 1: remember that connective thread that runs through that would be 595 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: that would be significant, I think, you know, because and again, 596 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: how were the bodies found? I always returned back to 597 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: this because I worked a case where guy was always 598 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: posing bodies a series of cases, and I think I 599 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: caught like two of them. But there were people from Jacksonville, Florida, 600 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: all the way to Beaumont, Texas that had caught cases 601 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: that they believed were related. And this guy always posed 602 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: the bodies. So that's one, you know, I'm kind of 603 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: prejudice in my mind relative to that. I always want 604 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: to know the position of the body, you know. I 605 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 1: always want to where they seated, where they sprawled out, 606 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: you know. And he also had an affinity for taking 607 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: their underwear off, turning it inside out, and putting it 608 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: back on the body. You know. So there's those little 609 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: bitty nuanced things that you look for in all of 610 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: these cases. And again they haven't released information to let 611 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: us know that, you know, what that commonality is that 612 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: runs through. Is there any anything here between these two 613 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: cases that you can kind of hitch them together. I 614 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 1: think that that's that's that's very important age groupings as well. 615 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 2: Now, because you've got Denise's fifty nine, Denise Leary is 616 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,439 Speaker 2: fifty nine, Michelle Romano is fifty six. 617 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and bracketing of ages. If you've got somebody that 618 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 1: is generally a that's a sexual predator, for instance, they 619 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: have an affinity for a okay, and that does hold 620 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: true with most serial perpetrators. There is a group of people, 621 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: you know, I think probably the first time that was there, 622 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: I get so sick and tired of saying this guy's name, 623 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: but I can't. It's he's always the benchmark for everything 624 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: in serial killing. And that's that's Bundy. You know, there's 625 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: that famous have you ever seen that that famous collage 626 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: of images of all of the victims together, and they've 627 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: all got brown or black long hair, you know, and 628 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: he had a type going back to the forty four 629 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: caliber killer with Son of Sam remembered, well, women up 630 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: there in that area, in the New York area were 631 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: actually changing their hairstyles because of him, because they said 632 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: he was targeting a certain type. And so that's that's 633 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: a big thing, you know, with them, what what are 634 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: they looking for? And type can be appearance, it can 635 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: be age. Okay. You think of Von City in Atlanta, Well, 636 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,760 Speaker 1: you're looking at victims in their seventies, in their eighties, 637 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: you know, and I know what you you know, Look, 638 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: Dave and I look at each other with the camera 639 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: and you're shaking his head and you're right. But you know, 640 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: you think you know what's the driver behind this, what's 641 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 1: the psychopathology that goes into the individual that's choosing to 642 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: do this to these people. But again, we still don't know. 643 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: With these three women that we've mentioned to date that 644 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,959 Speaker 1: are identified, we don't know what their cause and manner 645 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: of death is, and two of them is they're so 646 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: advanced in decomposition that I don't know. And you know 647 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: it wouldn't surprise me tell truth that that we're going 648 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: to have we're going to have this come out and 649 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: they're going to say something like if they rule it 650 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: as a homicide, will be nonspecific homicidal violence. We hear 651 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: that term all the time, and I understand why they 652 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: do it, because it's hard to explain away why the 653 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: bodies were there, why they were in the condition that 654 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: they were there. Would they have just gone there and 655 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: died of natural causes if you don't see any instrumentality 656 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: that's associated with them having taken their own life like 657 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 1: an old rusted pistol or maybe an open vial of drugs, 658 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: a empty vole of drugs. Then you have to assume 659 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: that it's something other than taking your own life or homicide. 660 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, in the cases of Denise 661 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 1: Leary and Paige Fannin and of course Michelle Romano, their 662 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: loved ones, they know where they are, they know that 663 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: they are in fact decease. They've been positively identified. But 664 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: with these all the cases in total in question, there's 665 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: still three that remain unidentified to this moment time when 666 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 1: I'm recording this. You know, one found in March nineteenth 667 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: in Connecticut, one found April ninth and killingly, and another 668 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: found actually on April the tenth in Framingham. They're unidentified 669 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,720 Speaker 1: to this point, and also to this point we don't 670 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: know who they are or what became of them. One 671 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: interesting little aside is that the remains that were found 672 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:45,399 Speaker 1: in Groton, Connecticut on March the nineteenth, this individual who 673 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: is female, actually presented with a condition. And listen to this. 674 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: It's called Turner syndrome, and Turner syndrome is a genetic 675 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: condition where the individual will present and it's something that's 676 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 1: diagnosed early on in life. Generally, the individuals are shortened stature, 677 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:13,320 Speaker 1: they have delayed puberty, they have heart defects, Generally they're infertile, 678 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: and also there is a pigmentation issue with their skin. 679 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:24,720 Speaker 1: This is very, very definitive as far as this person 680 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: is concerned. I would urge anybody within the sound of 681 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: my voice that if you know someone or you have 682 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: a loved one that might be missing that has been 683 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: diagnosed with Turner syndrome, and again this only occurs in females, 684 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: you probably ought to reach out to the authorities in Growton, Connecticut, 685 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,360 Speaker 1: because this might be somebody that they're looking for. But 686 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,319 Speaker 1: we're going to keep our eye on all of these 687 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: cases and see where the road leads. I'm Joseph Scott 688 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: Moore and and this is body Bags. Mhm mhm.