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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Mary.

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Speaker 2: It looks like you won the Man Alive on Mars

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Speaker 2: or war Man on Mars Alive.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to West Love Supreme. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to refrain.

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Speaker 3: I think I start every episode where I say, like

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Speaker 3: a special episode of Quest Love Supreme, like it's a

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Speaker 3: you know, a special, a special family.

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Speaker 1: Times or whatever.

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Speaker 3: This is definitely yes, this is probably a very this

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Speaker 3: is a very personal episode, at least for me. It's

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Speaker 3: a Philadelphia, and I think that you might claim you

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Speaker 3: might want to claim your city for once, like.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, all day, especially when it.

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Speaker 1: Comes this episode.

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Speaker 4: Okay, good, especially when it comes to this topic.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we are all Philadelphians now. Yeah. I know

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Speaker 1: that Quest Love Supreme is normally our.

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Speaker 3: Source for pop culture, Easter eggs and education edumentcation, But

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Speaker 3: because of the times that we're living in right now,

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Speaker 3: I felt it was only apropos for us to focus

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Speaker 3: on a very powerful documentary that as a Philadelphia this

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Speaker 3: is very near and dear to my heart. I'm speaking

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Speaker 3: of the powerful story that is forty years a prisoner

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Speaker 3: coming to well. Now at HBO, you can get on

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Speaker 3: HBO Max as well. This is a tale, of course,

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Speaker 3: the black lives of injustice, of police, brutality, of murder,

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Speaker 3: of corrupt politicians, of an imbalanced system. A lot of

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Speaker 3: questions and hardly answers that can't come fast enough. But

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Speaker 3: you know this is also this isn't just uh torture porn.

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Speaker 3: This is this is a story of determination uh and

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Speaker 3: a story of hope, really a bond of a black

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Speaker 3: family whose spirit cannot be broken no matter what opposition

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Speaker 3: comes its way. And we have two key members of

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Speaker 3: this very powerful documentary director of forty Years a Prisoner

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Speaker 3: uh in Philadelphia, Tommy Oliver, and I guess I could

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Speaker 3: say the star and the hero of forty Years a Prisoner,

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Speaker 3: the very very patient Mike Africa Junior.

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Speaker 1: Welcome, gentlemen, to Questlove Supreme.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like Don Cornelis want to say that.

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Speaker 5: You actually I've always wanted to be on soul train,

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Speaker 5: so I'll take it.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually, I'm actually proud that, you know what, I'm

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Speaker 3: becoming more aware. I've been listening to a lot of

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Speaker 3: old episodes and I Obama itis a lot of uh ah,

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Speaker 3: So I'm trying to do less ah and gaps as

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Speaker 3: I think in free time. So there's a lot to

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Speaker 3: uncover here, gentlemen. I'll start by saying, how gut wrenching

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Speaker 3: and amazing this documentary is. When mister Oliver first came

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Speaker 3: into my radar about this project, the first thing he

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Speaker 3: asked me was what do I know about Move? And

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Speaker 3: instantly I thought, hell, yeah, I'm gonna be a talking

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Speaker 3: head because I lived on O Sage Avenue and at

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Speaker 3: that I considered like May thirteenth to be like one

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Speaker 3: of the worst days of my high school life. Not

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Speaker 3: even to make light of that day, but like you know,

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Speaker 3: like just imagine like that morning my ninth grade girlfriend

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Speaker 3: just dumped me in the most like embarrassing way in

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Speaker 3: front of the class, and then like my sister got

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Speaker 3: to go to the Cosby Show taping without me, and

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Speaker 3: literally like I came on in puffing, and then exactly

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Speaker 3: at like four pm like this, I lived on fifty

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Speaker 3: second of No Sage, so I'm like eight blocks away

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Speaker 3: from where this particular move incident happened, and you just

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Speaker 3: heard this explosion and Tommy just stopped me instantly, he

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Speaker 3: was like, this isn't about May thirteenth, nineteen eighty five,

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Speaker 3: So then I thought about Paleton Avenue and then I said, oh,

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Speaker 3: I remember commissioner at the time, Police Commissioner Frank Rizzo

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Speaker 3: lining up a bunch of African American males outside their

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Speaker 3: home butt naked.

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Speaker 1: And then he stopped me again. He's like, no, that

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Speaker 1: was the Black Panthers.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, wait a minute, Okay, I know

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Speaker 3: about Mumia, I know about May of eighty five, and

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Speaker 3: I thought I knew about move.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, how many how many.

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Speaker 3: Stories of the Philadelphia police system versus black people are there?

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Speaker 3: And he just looked like, oh, you need to sit

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Speaker 3: down and watch this, and he showed me this is

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Speaker 3: so much to unpacked.

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Speaker 1: I'll throw it out to you time before I get

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 3: Brother, Mike, why did you even think that this was

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Speaker 3: the story unpacking?

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, like, are we going to kind

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Speaker 1: of give the ending away?

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Speaker 5: Because for me that I did, Yeah, we did ending

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Speaker 5: a way at this point. I mean because I don't

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Speaker 5: know when this will come out, but it'll come out

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Speaker 5: and then yeah, it's all good. We can we can

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Speaker 5: definitely talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Well, the thing is is that going into it,

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Speaker 1: you you know you're doing this in real time and

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Speaker 1: you don't know what the outcome.

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Speaker 5: Is, no idea whatsoever.

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Speaker 3: And you wouldn't have told me in a bajillion years

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Speaker 3: that what we concluded with was going to happen. So

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Speaker 3: even then as I'm watching this, so watching when arms folded,

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Speaker 3: like okay, more more torture, porn?

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Speaker 1: You know, wait, let me let.

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Speaker 6: Me just ask this job because he asked you what

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Speaker 6: you know about Move? But Tommy, not to judge, but

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Speaker 6: you obviously a little younger. First of all, what did

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Speaker 6: you know about Move? And why? I'm just learning that

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Speaker 6: there are multiple move attempted massacre stories, but why this

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Speaker 6: particular story.

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Speaker 1: More than the two that we know?

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Speaker 2: Did?

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Speaker 6: You just said no, I didn't even know because I

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Speaker 6: was waiting for the bomb to drop. And I was like, wait,

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Speaker 6: so can you explain that, Tommy.

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Speaker 5: So I grew up and I sort of heard about Move,

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Speaker 5: but not really. So I'm thirty six and I was

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Speaker 5: one when eighty five happened, and wasn't alive when this

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Speaker 5: event happened. But nobody really talked about moving any with

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Speaker 5: any clarity.

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Speaker 4: It was phi least tricky that way.

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Speaker 5: Philly's really tricky that way, and so it's like move

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Speaker 5: and there was this thing and there was a bomb

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Speaker 5: and there was just you know those just what it was.

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Speaker 5: And so I never really understood it. But I'm a

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Speaker 5: complete research junkie, and at some point I just went

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Speaker 5: down a rabbit hole and so I read every book

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Speaker 5: that I could final Move, I've read every article I

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Speaker 5: could find. I went down to the Urban Archive at

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Speaker 5: Temple where there are seventy two boxes of content, and

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Speaker 5: I threw so much of that stuff. But I realized

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Speaker 5: that there was still more stuff that was missing. And

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Speaker 5: so I had my buddy who used worked for the mayor,

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Speaker 5: Maxwell Brown. He introduced me. So Max is the homie,

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Speaker 5: is like, look, anybody anything that I meet and feel

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Speaker 5: anybody I need to get to him? Like Maxwell was

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Speaker 5: like can you? And so I'm like can you? Is

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Speaker 5: like yeah, of course I got you.

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Speaker 4: You're my guy.

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Speaker 5: Done. And so he made an intro to to Mona,

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Speaker 5: to Romona, Africa, and then she brought along Mike and

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Speaker 5: I was like, who is this dude? It was like

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Speaker 5: I was there to meet Ramona and Mike and I

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Speaker 5: we just hit it off like very very quickly, and

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Speaker 5: I learned so much at that point that I didn't know.

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Speaker 5: So at that point two of the MOVE members who

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Speaker 5: were in prison because of seventy eight had passed away

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Speaker 5: in prison. Seven of them were still in prison. Two

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Speaker 5: of those seven were his parents. And the fact that

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Speaker 5: he was born in prison I had no idea about,

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Speaker 5: and the fact that he was fighting to get them

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Speaker 5: out and that's all he was doing with his life.

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Speaker 5: That he was just a kid who wanted his parents

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Speaker 5: home and despite all of what he went through, there

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Speaker 5: wasn't a shred of bitterness about him was just incredible.

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Speaker 5: And then to talk some top of that, the fact

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Speaker 5: that to really understand that what MOVE was fighting against

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Speaker 5: and seventy eight police brutality, wrong co incarceration, systemic racism,

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Speaker 5: and piece of power, same shit we were fighting against

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Speaker 5: at that point three years ago or so, and same

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Speaker 5: shit we're fining against right now. And so for me,

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Speaker 5: it was the idea of trying to just do whatever

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Speaker 5: I could to be around him and sort of to

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Speaker 5: just even just as a friend, because he was just

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Speaker 5: doing something. He's wanted his parents home, and as somebody

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Speaker 5: who grew up with a difficult childhood. My dad wasn't

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Speaker 5: around all those things. I just wanted to see this

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Speaker 5: guy get his parents home. And then, from a storytelling perspective,

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Speaker 5: people knew about eighty five kind of nobody knew about

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Speaker 5: seventy eight, but it was also specifically related to what

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Speaker 5: his journey was into what was going on with his parents,

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Speaker 5: And so that put me and the rest of my team,

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Speaker 5: which is really three of us. It was me, my

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Speaker 5: EP Slash Racibo producer Keith g Nutt, my co editor

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Speaker 5: Joe Kiyo, the three of us just research the hell

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Speaker 5: out of it because there was no definitive account of

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Speaker 5: what happened in seventy eight, and so we just sort

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Speaker 5: of went from there.

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Speaker 3: I already know that this is going to be the

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Speaker 3: Snoop Dogg Doggie style episode of Quest Left Supreme where

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Speaker 3: the star of the episode doesn't even come in until

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Speaker 3: the second song.

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Speaker 1: So that's it. I'm like, we didn't even talk to

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Speaker 1: Mike yet.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know Mike we're talking.

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Speaker 3: Just start three songs later, like everyone gets on Snoops

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Speaker 3: record before Snoop does, and we're like eleven minutes into

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Speaker 3: this episode. Just hit me that we left the train

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Speaker 3: station without even talking to Mike. Mike, first of all,

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Speaker 3: man I'm extremely honored that you're doing us this solid

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Speaker 3: by giving us this interview. I guess for the non

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Speaker 3: Philadelphians and the non connected people to your story, I

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Speaker 3: would like to definitively ask you. Could you please tell

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Speaker 3: us what does move mean?

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Speaker 1: And what do they stand for?

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Speaker 2: Oh? That's an easy one. Yeah, I mean, I know

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Speaker 2: a lot of people don't really know what move means.

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Speaker 2: They a lot of people think of it as an acronym.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was an acronym.

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Speaker 2: Right Listen. Growing up, I heard a lot of acronyms

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Speaker 2: that people made up about us. Man, listen, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: were interesting ones. The best one that I've ever heard.

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Speaker 2: It makes me laugh every time I hear it. Now

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Speaker 2: they say it stands from monkey's own vines everywhere.

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Speaker 1: What you gotta be kidding?

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Speaker 2: But what?

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Speaker 1: Wait?

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Speaker 3: Can I ask you a question though? And this is

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Speaker 3: going to pay me to ask because I know what

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Speaker 3: the answer might be. Did you first hear that from

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Speaker 3: a black person?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Yo, we got to talk.

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Speaker 3: I want you to answer that question first, and then

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Speaker 3: I need to explain how move was explained to me,

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Speaker 3: and then we can really uncover the dirty secret of

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Speaker 3: Black America's conservatism, and.

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Speaker 5: Then I'm going to explain so much of how much

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Speaker 5: the media drove all of that in the seventies. You're misinformation.

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Speaker 5: There was so much misrepresentation about who they were and

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Speaker 5: there was no place else to go but to watch

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Speaker 5: the news, and so we can dig into all that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So for starters, Mike, could you please explain to

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Speaker 3: us what is MOVE and what does it stand for?

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Speaker 2: The Move organization's name Move It came from the founder

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Speaker 2: John Africa because he said that all life moves, and

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Speaker 2: in order to be in harmony with life with nature,

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Speaker 2: you have to move too. And we have a system

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Speaker 2: in place that is stagnant and it causes people to

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Speaker 2: stop or be stopped, and we are anti that establishment.

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Speaker 7: So we are completely opposite. So that's why we are called.

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Speaker 2: Move and our mission is to encourage people to protect life, people, animals,

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Speaker 2: and the environment. That's it. The water moves, the trees move,

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Speaker 2: the air flows and moves, the people move, the animals move,

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Speaker 2: All life moves, and that's how we got the name

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Speaker 2: pre epa.

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Speaker 1: Yo.

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Speaker 3: You know what saddens me about this whole thing is

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Speaker 3: because okay, you know for us that for a lot

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Speaker 3: of us.

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Speaker 1: That are on social media, and.

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Speaker 3: You know, you always see like you know, twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: and a twenty twenty Bengo card, and surprises are abounding,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of things are unfurling that you know,

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Speaker 3: manages to shock you, even though I think nothing is

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Speaker 3: shocking in twenty twenty. But the one revelation that came

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Speaker 3: to be that really threw people for a gut punch

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Speaker 3: was how conservative a sect of black America is, especially

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Speaker 3: in the light of the election that has recently passed.

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Speaker 3: And I say that because in nineteen eighty five, especially

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Speaker 3: let's say, like five or six days before the Osage

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Speaker 3: Avenue bombing.

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Speaker 1: What what I'm saying is that.

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Speaker 3: I grew up with uncles in the police force of

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Speaker 3: the Rizzo era under under Frank Rizzo. For the for

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Speaker 3: those that don't know, I was about to say, Frank

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Speaker 3: Rizzo is not the character from the Jerky Boys.

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Speaker 1: Frank Rizzo is.

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Speaker 3: You know a lot of what's happening now in the

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Speaker 3: Trump administration to a lot of Philadelphians, Uh, that is

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Speaker 3: nothing shocking or knew. Frank Rizzo was probably one of

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Speaker 3: the most vile UH politicians in the history of America.

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Speaker 5: The dude once said that I'm going to make a

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Speaker 5: till of the hunt look like a faggot. That is

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Speaker 5: a direct quote from the person who was the mayor

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Speaker 5: of at the time the fourth biggest city in the country. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: he that is a direct.

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Speaker 6: Also one of the issues that's even trying to pull down.

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Speaker 5: And he was somebody who he started as b cop,

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Speaker 5: made his way all the way up to police commissioner,

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Speaker 5: two term city mayor, and he basically operated under the

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Speaker 5: principle of you're gonna have safe streets or you can

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Speaker 5: have civil liberties. Pick one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: He again a lot of the code talk that or

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Speaker 3: the you know, the the hidden he didn't even hide

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Speaker 3: the code because I think at one point I remember

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Speaker 3: my father being upset at that he I think he

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Speaker 3: directly told white people to just rail against black people

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Speaker 3: because they were taking your jobs. Like whatever the I

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Speaker 3: think it was the garbage union or something like that,

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Speaker 3: but like he just directly told white people, fight for yourself. So,

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Speaker 3: I mean, everything that we're experiencing now with Trump, we

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Speaker 3: had to deal with that. He's been mayor since I

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Speaker 3: was born.

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Speaker 1: I believe his time ran down seventy eight or seventy

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Speaker 1: nine I'm not certain, but his.

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Speaker 6: Mum was long though, right, because he was police commissioner first, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: he was. And then his family is in the government

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Speaker 6: as well, right, Like he had a brother.

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Speaker 5: Brother who was in the fire department, who ran the

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Speaker 5: fire department, and they were all over.

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Speaker 7: His father was a fire department was in a fire

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Speaker 7: department too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they were involved for a long time, and

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Speaker 2: he ran the city like a mob boss exactly. You know.

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Speaker 2: The thing of like like the racism in him, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't even he didn't try to hide it.

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Speaker 7: I mean, it was how he felt.

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Speaker 2: And you know, one of the examples I give about

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Speaker 2: Frank Frizzo and his ways, like in the city of Philadelphia,

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Speaker 2: where there's over two thousand statues or monuments in the

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Speaker 2: city that is mostly black, there's only three that are

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Speaker 2: of black people. One is Martin Luther King and is

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Speaker 2: only eighteen inches high. One is Octavius That just we

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Speaker 2: just got that statue outside of city Hall just a

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Speaker 2: few years ago. There is no statue of Bernard Hopkins,

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Speaker 2: who was a heavyweight champion at the age of fifty, however,

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Speaker 2: but there's a statue of a fictional character named Rocky

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Speaker 2: Velo right, so, and that's because of Rizzo Italian. He

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Speaker 2: was pushing the whole Italian thing, and he wanted people

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Speaker 2: in the city to be with this Italian thing, so

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Speaker 2: he pushed it, and he, like you said, he said

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Speaker 2: he wanted to urge white people to fight black people

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Speaker 2: for better jobs and all that kind of stuff. So

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Speaker 2: his and his racism spilled over on everyone, and Move

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Speaker 2: got it really hard. A lot of it was because

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Speaker 2: of Paltain Village and the gentrification of that community, a

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Speaker 2: lot like what you're seeing now in a temple and

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Speaker 2: pen and a lot of it had to do with

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Speaker 2: the fact that Move was very much before our time.

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Speaker 7: We didn't see dread locks in nineteen seventy whatever.

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Speaker 2: And the first time I ever saw locks outside of

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Speaker 2: my family was Whoopy gold Bird and that was in

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Speaker 2: the eighties.

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Speaker 4: And then they were demonized before they were celebrated, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And so the raw food thing, we were long before

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Speaker 2: the raw food restaurants that are popping up all over

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Speaker 2: the country.

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Speaker 1: Vegan in the wrong place. You were trying to be

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Speaker 1: vegan in the city.

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Speaker 7: The exercise, i mean, Move women having the babies at home.

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Speaker 2: We were so before our time, and the you know

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Speaker 2: it was it was we were demonized because of it,

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Speaker 2: and people you know, discriminated against, and that was in large.

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Speaker 7: Part what led to them accepting what happened to us.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: The thing that perplexed me was that a lot of

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Speaker 3: my I a lot of my thoughts on what move

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Speaker 3: was came directly from black people, older black people. And

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Speaker 3: that's when I realized that at the time, I think

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Speaker 3: when the roots first started, and this is when we

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Speaker 3: were like busking on the streets of like West Philadelphia,

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Speaker 3: like we do something at Clark Park or whatever. We

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Speaker 3: did this thing at Clark Park. Once I think of

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Speaker 3: like ninety one and I met Ramona. There was on

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Speaker 3: Baltimore Avenue, like a farmer's market or something like that,

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Speaker 3: and she was.

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Speaker 1: There and it was kind of like my us weekly.

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Speaker 3: Oh she's just like us, Like, oh, she talks proper

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Speaker 3: English and she's eating salad.

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Speaker 1: I don't see her eating more. I'm telling you. I

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Speaker 1: was told the worship about that.

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Speaker 4: This is a dress, and this is addressed in a

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Speaker 4: documentary day that.

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Speaker 3: Y'all were heavens that it was like a cult that

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Speaker 3: you know, like raw foods, And now I get what

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Speaker 3: the raw means as in a vegan lifestyle. But when

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Speaker 3: it's nineteen eighty five and people don't understand the contextualization

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Speaker 3: of a cleaner, healthy living. I mean, this is stuff

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Speaker 3: like Eric Abadu taught me in ninety seven. But you

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Speaker 3: guys were just twenty years, not twenty thirty years ahead

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Speaker 3: of the game. And you know, once I talked to her,

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Speaker 3: I walked away. I was like, wait a minute, that's

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Speaker 3: not what my uncles or my grandmam or like anyone

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Speaker 3: that was older said, right, And it just that was

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Speaker 3: the that was the moment where I realized, how you know,

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Speaker 3: if you kind of go against I hate to say

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Speaker 3: it like this, this conservative Christian.

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Speaker 5: And black people.

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Speaker 3: Go yeah, like it's it's against God. And what God

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Speaker 3: do they worship? They don't worship my God and dah.

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Speaker 1: Da da And.

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Speaker 7: That's not even and that's not even necessarily accurate.

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Speaker 2: The original A lot of people don't notice, but the

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Speaker 2: original name for the move organization was the Christian Movement,

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Speaker 2: the American Christian Movement for Life. That was their original name.

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Speaker 2: The people black people were ashamed of us.

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Speaker 7: They thought that even though.

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Speaker 2: The message was cool, when we talked to them one

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Speaker 2: on one, because we didn't come in a suit like

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Speaker 2: Martin Luther King and delivered that message. They didn't want

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Speaker 2: to accept it because we didn't come in a suit

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Speaker 2: like Malcolm, you know, and these were the heroes that

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Speaker 2: had just been honored and celebrated, so they thought of

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Speaker 2: it as this is how you're supposed to look. If

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Speaker 2: you're going to be a revolutionary or if you're going

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Speaker 2: to be radical, then you need to look like the

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Speaker 2: Black Panthers. So move come along with different than all

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Speaker 2: of those groups, different than anyone has ever even seen before.

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Speaker 2: And it just made people question it from the beginning.

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Speaker 2: And it didn't help that the news media was saying

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Speaker 2: things like we eat out of garbage cans, and we

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Speaker 2: don't bathe, and we don't the children don't, the children

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Speaker 2: are not schooled, and just they made it worse by

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Speaker 2: just you know, inflaming people's minds and their passions with

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Speaker 2: these lies. You know, they demonized us, and that just

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Speaker 2: gave them like justification.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So at the time, I mean, how aware were

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Speaker 3: you of the osh Avenue incident and what effect did

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Speaker 3: that have on your life? Like were you going by Mike?

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Speaker 3: You were born as Mike Africa right.

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Speaker 2: So you know, if you've researched move history, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of confrontations and incidents with the police that you'll find,

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Speaker 2: but there's a lot that you will never find. One

402
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: in particular that you it's a footnote within the history

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00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: on paper, but it left a major impression on the

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Speaker 2: children in the seventies. In the very early eighties, John

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Speaker 2: Africa sent the children to our sister chapter in Richmond,

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Speaker 2: Virginia was called the Seat of Wisdom. And I was

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Speaker 2: one of the kids. After I was born in a jail,

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Speaker 2: my grandmother took me to the Seat of Wisdom in

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Speaker 2: Virginia too. Bertie was there. All of the kids that

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Speaker 2: were in the house made thirteenth. They were all there.

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Speaker 2: We were all together, and a bunch of other kids

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Speaker 2: were there too. It was about fifteen of us. You know.

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Speaker 2: It was like you never really got any peace. You

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Speaker 2: could never really feel safe or secure. Every time you

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Speaker 2: started to like feel that things were going to change,

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Speaker 2: they just they didn't.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I can remember times where neighbors black and

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Speaker 7: white would walk up to us and just like pull

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Speaker 7: as much mucus out of their chest and out of

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Speaker 7: their throat and just spit on us. I remember, like

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Speaker 7: like the police come by. They're not even doing anything.

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Speaker 7: They're not coming by to raid our house or anything.

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Speaker 2: They just walk in the beat and as they're walking

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Speaker 2: they see, you know, one of us, and they just

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Speaker 2: pick us up by our hair and throw us across

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Speaker 2: the street. That that's the kind of stuff that happened

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Speaker 2: throughout my childhood as children. Yeah, I mean, you know, three,

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Speaker 2: four or five, seven, you know, and so like we

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Speaker 2: always like stuck stuck together and like try to fight

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Speaker 2: for each other. But you know, we were all kids.

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Speaker 2: The oldest one was only eight or nine years old

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Speaker 2: of the fifteen of us. And so like when we

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Speaker 2: were in Virginia, there was this thing that happened where

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Speaker 2: they pull the police raided our house and uh they

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00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 2: said that there was some housing co violations. The children

436
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: were said to be abused in all of this nonsense.

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Speaker 2: So they put us in an orphanage. We were in

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Speaker 2: the orphanage for eleven days. And while we were in

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Speaker 2: the orphanage, we were like neglected, I mean totally abused.

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Speaker 2: Like I mean, look I was I was I was

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Speaker 2: almost three years old, and they didn't, you know, the caretakers,

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Speaker 2: the nuns that was running the place. They didn't change

443
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: my diaper for eleven days. I had a diaper rash

444
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: that was near my knees and up to my neighbor.

445
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: And when my when my family and I wasn't the

446
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: only one, and I was not the youngest, and you know,

447
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,239
Speaker 2: I mean they they like my cousin. My cousin had

448
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: locks down to his almost down to his shoulders, and

449
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: like the nuns like were trying to comb his hair,

450
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: and they combed his hair to the point where like

451
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: his head was bleeding. He had went by the time

452
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: they finished, by the time we were you know, by

453
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 2: the time our family got us back, he had half

454
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: of an afro and the other half of his head

455
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 2: was still locks, you know, and he has sores all

456
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 2: over his head. You know, they were they you know,

457
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 2: when we didn't cooperate, they try to throw us.

458
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 7: They actually threw some of the kids down basement steps.

459
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 5: You know.

460
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: We would hide behind hot water tanks to try to

461
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: try to get away from them. And we went through

462
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: all of that for that eleven days. Our family rescues

463
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,239
Speaker 2: us and then they bring us back to Philadelphia, and

464
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: you're thinking, wow, this okay, finally we're home. The worst.

465
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: It can't get any worse than this. Right, it's over.

466
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: The worst has to be over because we just survived

467
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 2: something that we shouldn't have and then, you know, it

468
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,239
Speaker 2: just it never it didn't get better for them. You know,

469
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: we were I remember hearing about the confrontation is gearing up.

470
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 2: The cops were always around our houses, flying helicopters. I mean,

471
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: I was terrified at the sound of any siren. It

472
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: could have been an ambulance going to rescue somebody, but

473
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 2: the sound was so terrifying, and when I would hear it,

474
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: I would run home. It doesn't matter where I was

475
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: or what I was doing. I would run home as

476
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: fast as I could. And then one day I went

477
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: outside the house and I turned I walked down the steps.

478
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: I'm about four miles away from Osage Avenue on Reno

479
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: Street in West Philly, and one of my friends he

480
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 2: looked at me and said, they dropped the bomb or

481
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 2: move And my first reaction was, no, they didn't. And

482
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 2: he pointed up to the sky. And when I turned

483
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: around and looked up, the entire sky was black and

484
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: I didn't know what that meant. And I was six

485
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: years old. I ran in the house, and I asked

486
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: my grandmother, I said, and before I couldn't even ask

487
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: her anything. Her and my aunts were huddled around the

488
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: television with tears just pouring out of their faces. And

489
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: you know, and I said, that looked like our house.

490
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: And I looked at me and said it is. And

491
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: I wonder. I didn't know if anyone had died. I

492
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: didn't know who was in the house. I just knew

493
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: that our house was on fire, and it didn't look

494
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: like it was being put out.

495
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 7: It took me a lot of years to find out

496
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 7: who was actually in the house.

497
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: I had no idea that all the children that I

498
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: was in Richmond with was in the house. I would

499
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: ask my grandmother where they are? And you know, how

500
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: do you tell a six year old your family was

501
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: just killed? Right, So with having the belief of life

502
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: and believing that all life is one and connected and

503
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: we all need each other, and we all depend on

504
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: the same sources for life, and we don't believe in death, right,

505
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: We believe that life is continuous. When an apple falls

506
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: from a tree, it goes into the ground and it

507
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: provides with more apples, more seeds, you know, So we

508
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: just that's how we think about everything in life. So

509
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: when I would ask my grandmother where the people were,

510
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: where the kids, where's Tomaso at? She would say, look

511
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: out the window, and you know, I might see a cardinal.

512
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: At the time I asked her that question, I saw

513
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: a cardinal land on the branch and she pointed to

514
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: the cardinal and said, there he is. If you want

515
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: to see your family, you want to see your brothers

516
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: and sisters, look out the window and see the life

517
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: you'll see them. And that's the way.

518
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 7: It was for about eight years.

519
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: And when I began to understand who was in the house,

520
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: that came when Ramona came home and eineteen ninety two,

521
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: I asked my mom, who was at the prison with

522
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: her before she came home. I said, I said, Mom,

523
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: can you can you have Ramona come and get me

524
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: when she come home? And Ramona the day she came home,

525
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: she came and got me and we were Ramona went

526
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: straight to like a speaking thing where she was on

527
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: the radio or something, and I was with her and

528
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: she was telling the story to the audience. And as

529
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: she's telling the story, I'm learning what happened to my family.

530
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: As she as the audience is learning it too, so

531
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: there was a lot of catching up that I had

532
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: to do. I didn't know who. I knew my parents

533
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: were in prison, but I didn't know what they were

534
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: in prison for. I didn't know that they had a

535
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: hundred year sentence. I didn't know that they were in

536
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: prison for killing a cop. I didn't know what was

537
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: going on really, because again, how do you explain to

538
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: a child that his family is in prison and he

539
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: won't see them until he outside on the street.

540
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 7: He won't see them until he's at least thirty years old.

541
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: So you know a lot. I was just learning as

542
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: audiences were learning. I traveled with Ramona throughout the country.

543
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: We went on I mean, she went on tours, speaking

544
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: tours all around the country, and I'm just soaking up

545
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 2: as much information as I can from her and from Pam,

546
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: and I listened to Mumia speak a lot.

547
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 7: Mumia talked a lot about move.

548
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: I listened to his recordings and his commentaries, read some

549
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: of his writings. That's how I learned about May thirteenth

550
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: and the and the depth that I that I was

551
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: able to understand it in and about what happened on

552
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: August Epe that sent our people to prison.

553
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 6: I got to ask, is this from the after watching

554
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 6: the documentary after you just listen to your speech just now,

555
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 6: and I think that ameor mentioned this in your in

556
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 6: the intro.

557
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 4: Your patience is is.

558
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 6: And you're just wherewithal to just push through is amazing,

559
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 6: and knowing it is astounding, and knowing just a piece

560
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 6: of the story makes you feel that way, but then

561
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 6: knowing the totality, like not just about your parents, but

562
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 6: just life outside of that and the.

563
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 4: Things that you've seen.

564
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 6: So I got to ask you as a man, like,

565
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 6: as a black man, like.

566
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 4: How do you maintain this?

567
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: Like?

568
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 6: And I'm just pointing to mind because at such a

569
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 6: beautiful level that it seems to exude from you.

570
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 7: You know, I was asking this question earlier today. Oh damn,

571
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 7: people ask me this.

572
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: People ask me this, I mean, because.

573
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 4: It's kind of like advice too.

574
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 6: We want to know, we want to know if you

575
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 6: can do it, we can go through anything we got

576
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 6: going on.

577
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: One of the I was doing an interview with a

578
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 2: reporter from the Guardian newspaper. He asked me what was

579
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: your what was the thing that you disliked about the

580
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: film the most? And I said, I didn't dislike the

581
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: film at all, I said, But there was a comment

582
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: that was made by one of the officers, Bob Hurst.

583
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: Bob Hurst made a comment that said he said something

584
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: like they took move to jail, but they should have

585
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: took him to the morgue. And that was probably more

586
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: disappointing than it was angering, because how you know, if

587
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: we're going to move forward and grow as a people, right,

588
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: how do you still harbor the same hate in your

589
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: heart that led to one of his fellow officers being killed.

590
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 2: I mean, what happened on August eighth, nineteen seventy eight,

591
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: when a cop where a cop was killed. That didn't

592
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: happen because people were loving each other. That happened because

593
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: people were fighting each other because of a system that

594
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: one was trying to protect and the other side was

595
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: trying to get rid of. Because of the danger. It

596
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: calls for people, the animals, the environment, and everyone, including

597
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: the cops. So you know, it's just I have enough

598
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: understanding of the mission, and I'm clear enough to understand

599
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: that we're not going to get in anywhere carrying hate

600
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: in our hearts. We're not.

601
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 7: It doesn't get us anywhere.

602
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: You know where hate gets you, It gets warse, it

603
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 2: gets violence, the hatred that you must have in you

604
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: to shoot a brother down in his back in front

605
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: of his mother, kneeling on his neck while he's calling

606
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: for his mother, crying for his mother, pleading for his mother.

607
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: That is what hate breathes. And I'm trying to get

608
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: as far away from it from that type of activity

609
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: as possible because it doesn't get us anywhere, it doesn't

610
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: help us in any kind of way. And it is

611
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: exactly what like like Trump Trump was saying that Trump

612
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: made a statement about Frank Rizzo himself. He said, we

613
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 2: need more mayors like him, you know, and we see

614
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: the type of person he is and the type of

615
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: the type of evil that is evoked by his mentality.

616
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 2: You got people walking around shooting protesters because protesters are

617
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 2: trying to make a better way, because they're just trying

618
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 2: to say stop killing black people. And you got anti

619
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: protesters protesting the protests because they want to continue to

620
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: kill black people. So, you know, I do a lot.

621
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 6: It ain't easy about That's why I'm asking you, like,

622
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 6: do you meditate, like Guly, asking you, like.

623
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 4: How the spirits?

624
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 7: Yes, right.

625
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 4: In the life you know.

626
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 5: It means you.

627
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: You know, I am. I had a lot of time

628
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 2: to think. I just I've had a lot of time

629
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: to process what happened. Tommy talked about he's a research junkie.

630
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm a research junk as well. I have files. I

631
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 2: have boxes and crates and filing cabinets and storage bends.

632
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: Tommy's been to my basement. He's seen the towers of

633
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: storage bins. In fact, you can see it. You can

634
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: see a portion of my archives in the film. I'm

635
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: sitting in front of it. That is ten of the

636
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: information that I have.

637
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 3: Okay, so there's a part of the film that our

638
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 3: mayor from eighty five W. Wilson Good, very transparently says

639
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: that it's it's most likely that friendly fire was the

640
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 3: cause of the death of the office. I forget the

641
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 3: offers his name, James Grant, James Rand. Okay, sorry, now

642
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 3: I do know that because of the bulldozing of the

643
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 3: compound and whatnot, I assume that a might assume that

644
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 3: the evidence that would have officially exonerated them was that

645
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: in the rubble and the pile of mess like, because

646
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 3: it's so obvious that it was friendly fire, and I

647
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 3: know that you know forensics and you know the whatever

648
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 3: the grass you know, magic bullet JFK theory thing couldn't

649
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: be been proved proven because of the of the watch

650
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 3: job of the Philly Police Department. But how I mean,

651
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: how close were they to kind of reaching that conclusion?

652
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 3: Like it was there was that ever introduced in court?

653
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: That hey, it was.

654
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 5: It was introduced in court and it was a mess.

655
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 5: There were so many things that happened, from evidence disappearing

656
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 5: to the official footsiographer not taking any photos in the basement,

657
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 5: to him saying that when he was in the basement

658
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 5: he saw no guns in the basement, to the there

659
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 5: was a time where they changed the trajectory of the

660
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 5: bullet in court and so they said that oh it

661
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 5: was going this way. Oh no, I'm sorry, it's actually

662
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 5: going this way in court on the official coroner's report

663
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 5: they just said, oh no, no, sorry, it's supposed to be

664
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 5: the other way. And the judge allowed it. And so

665
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 5: there were so many things. I mean, if you just

666
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 5: stopped to think about it for a second, why would

667
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 5: anyone destroy a crime scene hours after Why Olkham's razor?

668
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 5: Like why like why would somebody do that?

669
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 6: Tommy, how did you not lose your shit during these interviews?

670
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 6: Because I know that Mike is superhuman. However, I in

671
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 6: these moments from the moment of the with Mike just

672
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 6: reminded us of what the officer said to Yeah, Bob

673
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 6: Hurst to buy her, to Rendell, to Wilson, good, to

674
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 6: all of them coming back and now being like, well,

675
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 6: you know.

676
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 4: Maybe they should be they shouldn't be in jail.

677
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 6: You know, everybody forty years later, like how do you

678
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 6: how did you keep your cool during the taping of

679
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 6: these moments that were just like the fuck?

680
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 5: What you mean?

681
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 4: Like forty years ain't shit. I'm sorry, That's how I felt.

682
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 5: I mean, so much of it came down to, like,

683
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 5: I set out to tell a story that was open,

684
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 5: honest and unbiased, and there are no frank In bites

685
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 5: in this. I'm not misrepresenting what people say, I'm not

686
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 5: taking it out of context, and in many ways it

687
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 5: was giving people enough rope to hang themselves because.

688
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 6: I'm surprised you got some of those people. I was

689
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 6: surprised you got Rendell and married They're good.

690
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was Jesus Christ.

691
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 7: How hard or easy was that?

692
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 3: That was the last that watching Wilson Good speak on

693
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 3: move Yd, So wait, can I can I can I

694
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 3: assume that you had to assure them that this was

695
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 3: not about nineteen eighty five and that he was only

696
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 3: going to speak on nineteen seventy seven, that.

697
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 5: He's soool that actually came through Mike, and so speaking

698
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 5: of the idea, and I know it really came down to,

699
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 5: in his case, the ends justifying the means and the

700
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 5: only thing and not to put words in your mouth,

701
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 5: you can speak for yourself. But he went in his

702
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 5: parents home, and as such it was about whatever it

703
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 5: took to do that, and the idea of sitting with

704
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 5: the men who was significantly responsible for what happened to

705
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 5: his family. Even the idea of that wasn't too much.

706
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 4: Oh you were there, you were there, Mike was there.

707
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 3: Let me put it in context for people that might

708
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 3: not get it. W Wilson Good was mayor of Philadelphia,

709
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 3: our first black mayor in nineteen eighty five, kind of

710
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: a source of pride. Not Obama esque, but it was

711
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: kind of like okay, you know, okay.

712
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 4: If you wasn't no Marion Barry.

713
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: Well, you didn't smoke crack at least no, it was

714
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 3: it was. It was a quasi I mean, if you

715
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 3: were into that sort of thing. I mean, I've never

716
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 3: got the quote Obama, whatever the feeling. I guess the

717
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 3: idea of something supersedes the actual reality. So yes, I

718
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 3: would say that the idea of the first black mayor

719
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 3: of Philadelphia was kind of a source of pride, especially

720
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 3: for a city that was under the under the thumb

721
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 3: of you know, Rizzo for so long, and then eight

722
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 3: years later you have your first black mayor. But this

723
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: incident May thirteenth, nineteen eighty five really tarnished his legacy.

724
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 3: And I guess we need to also explain that that,

725
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 3: you know, in addition to what happened in nineteen seventy eight.

726
00:41:58,800 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: Has explained earlier.

727
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 3: Nineteen eighty five, the city of Philadelphia flew a helicopters.

728
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 5: I'm sorry it did it though, like you say, it Tarrens' legacy.

729
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 5: Yet they he got re elected, and so he got

730
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 5: re elected after that, and and so see, part of

731
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 5: the problem is it's there's so much more to that

732
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 5: where when you dehumanize a people, which is what the

733
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 5: media did to move it makes it really easy to

734
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 5: justify what's what happens to them insert whatever them you want,

735
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 5: whether it's move or immigrants or natives or or whatever

736
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 5: group you want to insert, because they've been dehumanized, and

737
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 5: as such, it becomes easy to justify it, because how

738
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 5: then do you not get confused by the idea of

739
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 5: this man gets re elected the next year.

740
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 3: But it's for me, there's always going to be an

741
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 3: asterisk there, like or maybe you know, I'm just in

742
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 3: the right mind of things. You know, of course, if

743
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 3: you were to ask an older black person or a

744
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: conservative person, I don't know. I just think that the

745
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 3: stain of what happened to fifty two to the sixty

746
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 3: two hundred block of Osage Avenue and the subsequent blocks

747
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 3: that also got destroyed, that was way way too There's

748
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: there's always going to be an asterisk on.

749
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: His entire legacy that.

750
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: Is not going to be there for Rendell or Nutter

751
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 3: or any other mayor which and.

752
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: What's what's even weirder is that Rizzo was way worse.

753
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 3: And I yes, I think he's one of the worst

754
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 3: politicians of all time, but I think generally in history,

755
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 3: like there isn't a statue of Wilson Good up in Philadelphia,

756
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 3: you know, there Now, if you were white, I'm certain

757
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 3: that there would have been a lot of erasure and

758
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: you know, a kind of.

759
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: A revisionist history of his legacy.

760
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 3: But you know, I mean, Wilson Good has actually been

761
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 3: in I still consider in hiding. Like besides this interview,

762
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 3: I can't recall ever seeing a Wilson Good SoundBite or

763
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 3: an interview or anything in the last thirty five years.

764
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 6: Now I'm interested to see about Mike and his relationship

765
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 6: since he was the one that introduced him to the project.

766
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: Because also, how did how did that? Well, yeah, I'm

767
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: shocked to hear this. How did that even? How was that? Broker?

768
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't easy. How it started was Wilson Good

769
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,399
Speaker 2: was honored with the street sign called Wilson Good Way

770
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 2: on his block where he lives. And when that happened,

771
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 2: some members of the community who are also move and

772
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 2: move me is some porters were enraged by it, and

773
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: they talked about how they take their kids by that

774
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: street on their way to school every day and they

775
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: do not want to see a street sign of a

776
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: murderer on their block. So the pressure was so intense

777
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: and Wilson it drew, it drew Wilson Good out. He

778
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 2: got on the radio.

779
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 7: He talked about how you know he was he was

780
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 7: sorry for what happened.

781
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 2: He had apologized multiple times he would be willing to

782
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: support MOVE and John Africa for the rest of his life.

783
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: And so at the time, the MOVE nine were still

784
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: in prison except for my mom. And when my mom

785
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: got out of prison, the head of the FOP, John mcnesby,

786
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: made a statement that said one of the MOVE members

787
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 2: slipped through the cracks, but the next man up, the

788
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: next person up, we're gonna be waiting for.

789
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 7: He pointed and said this Michael Davis was just my father.

790
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 2: He said this, Michael Davis, We're gonna make sure that

791
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: he never sees the light of day. We're going to

792
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 2: make sure that he stays in jail. And if that

793
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: means that his he said, we want him to serve

794
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: the full term. And if that means he dies before

795
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: his terms are up, we want his body, his corpse

796
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: to occupy.

797
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: A sell for interrupting. When was that said?

798
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 2: That was in uh June twenty eighteen, right when she

799
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: came out, right, all right, my mom got out. So

800
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: when that happened, I knew that the pressure that we

801
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 2: had applied and all of the work that we had

802
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 2: done to get my mom out, I knew that we

803
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: were going to need more. The way people see women

804
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 2: as opposed to how they see men, it would be

805
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 2: harder for my father to make parole than my mom.

806
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 2: So Wilson said he wanted to help. So I called

807
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 2: him and I told him, I said, you said you

808
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: wanted to help help. So he said, okay. So he

809
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: said he wanted to set up a meeting. He said

810
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: there was certain information that he could help with. There

811
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: are certain things that he knew, and he said he'd

812
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 2: be willing to provide that information. He'd be willing to

813
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 2: provide support letters, He'd be willing to provide jobs. All

814
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: of the things that the parole board needed you to

815
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 2: have to make parole. He said he'd be willing to supply.

816
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 2: So the first meeting that we had.

817
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 4: Sounds like modern day mister. I'm sorry.

818
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: It was great, but I didn't know this part of

819
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: the story.

820
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 4: That's crazy. I'm sorry.

821
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: The first meeting that we had was I tell you so,

822
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 2: just to give you a little bit of understanding about me,

823
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 2: my family, the children that were in the house. I

824
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: think about them every day. There is not a day

825
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: that goes by in the thirty five years since I've

826
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 2: seen them last that I don't think about him every day.

827
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: And the women and the men that were in the prison,

828
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: they were the parents of the kids that were killed.

829
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: So going into Wilson Good's office it was the hardest

830
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 2: thing I ever had to do in my life. It

831
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 2: was I felt like I felt so dirty, Like just

832
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 2: having a conversation with him and not jumping over the

833
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 2: table to strangle him, I felt so I felt like

834
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 2: I was betraying my family just looking at him and

835
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: looking at him looking back at me.

836
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 7: You know, I left the first meeting vomiting after.

837
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: You know, it was it was really tough. But if

838
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 2: you know anything about me, you know that I don't

839
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 2: love anything more then I love my family, my whole

840
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 2: MOVE family.

841
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: And so with.

842
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: One of the members of the Move nine dying in

843
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: prison in twenty fifteen, you know, I just didn't want

844
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: to see any other MOVE member come out of prison

845
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 2: feet first. So I was willing to do whatever it took.

846
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 2: It didn't matter how hard it was, it didn't matter

847
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 2: how gut wrenching it was, it didn't matter how controversial

848
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 2: it was. Because it was definitely controversial. People didn't like

849
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 2: the idea of me going and sitting down and talking

850
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 2: with Wilson Good but to bring my family home.

851
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 7: I was willing to do that, and I don't regret it.

852
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 3: Can I ask something a tom? So this documentary is

853
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 3: what one hour and forty five minutes?

854
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 5: I believe an hour and forty nine.

855
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so under out under two hours? One slight left turn.

856
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 3: And this could have easily have been It could have

857
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 3: been a short docuseries, like just just for us to

858
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 3: conduct this interview and just unwrap twenty percent of the story,

859
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 3: you know, is a lot to.

860
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 5: Have, no idea a mirror do.

861
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: Okay, not even I'm not even trying to self promote

862
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 3: because I'm doing a documentary that at the same time,

863
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 3: like cutting your kids is one of the hardest things.

864
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: I gotta keep this in and I gotta keep this in.

865
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 3: All this too important, This is too important, and I'm

866
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 3: hearing a lot of things that now I'm like, well, wait,

867
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 3: why wasn't that in the die? And then I realized

868
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,760
Speaker 3: that if you open that can of worms, then suddenly

869
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 3: you're dealing with a three hour film. So talk about

870
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 3: the storyline structure, like how hard was it? What was

871
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: your original director's cut and how much did you have

872
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 3: to cut on the floor just to get the sustinct

873
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 3: start to finish story that you ended up with.

874
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 1: Now that's just as powerful.

875
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 5: So interestingly, I actually thought of this as a multi

876
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 5: part piece to begin with, and that's what I started

877
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 5: talking to HBO about. And they thought that it was

878
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 5: a feature. And actually what I said to them was

879
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 5: if it was anybody but HBO, Manswer will be hell no.

880
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 5: But let me think about it. Okay, That's what I

881
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 5: said verbatim, And so I thought about it and I

882
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 5: I agreed, And then when I turned in the first cut,

883
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 5: they were like, oh, I see what you were talking about.

884
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 5: You want to have a conversation about this being more

885
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 5: than one part, and we can have that conversation. And

886
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 5: at that point I was like no. And it was

887
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 5: about figuring out how to be disciplined and tell the

888
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 5: story in a way that that really worked, because there

889
00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 5: are so many things that we could dig into. We

890
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 5: could dig into August eighth for two hours by itself,

891
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 5: and I'm not exaggerating. We have so much footage around it,

892
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 5: we have so many perspectives and there's so much archival

893
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 5: you can really dig into all of the details in

894
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 5: so many ways. But for me, it was about understanding

895
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 5: what the story was really about, understanding what the emotion was,

896
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 5: which is this guy trying to get his parents home,

897
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 5: and then the context around that, why are his parents

898
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 5: in and how do we be laser focused on that.

899
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 5: There's a reason that the film moves the way that

900
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 5: it does, that it looks the way that it does.

901
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 5: That the cutting the shoe, Like I shot the entire

902
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 5: film myself, I cut it with a partner, and part

903
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 5: of it is the idea of stripping away. I lit

904
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 5: the film out it, all of it, and so it's

905
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 5: just stripping away all the things that take you away

906
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 5: from the emotion and the story, and that's it. Mething

907
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 5: that does not fit on that you pull away.

908
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 3: So the the scene in which Mike is about to

909
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 3: hear that his mother is about to be released, you

910
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 3: were there.

911
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 1: How much FaceTime were you so?

912
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 5: So so here's the thing, that's the one thing that

913
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 5: I didn't and Mike and I had So Mike and

914
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 5: I talked about this because we can imagine that scene

915
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 5: image scene.

916
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 7: So tell him about how you threatened me. You don't

917
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 7: forget that part you.

918
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 4: That you had to be there when it happened.

919
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,439
Speaker 5: So I was in La. I live in La. He's

920
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 5: in Philly and and so, but I didn't. We had

921
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 5: no idea when it was going to happen. So you

922
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 5: can tell HI about the threat, right, So.

923
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: I told you.

924
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 2: I said, Tommy, I don't know when this is gonna happen. Man,

925
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 2: if it's gonna happen, I said, what happens. If it

926
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: happens and I just go pick her up? He said,

927
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 2: if you pick her up without calling me, I will

928
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: kill you.

929
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 6: Yeah. I felled him on that because that was such

930
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 6: a beautiful moment, like it was theatrical like just.

931
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 5: So that that actual phone call I wasn't there for.

932
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 5: But it was interesting because I was in I was

933
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 5: in Miami at ABFF and I was there with my

934
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 5: wife and our kids. And when he called me, we

935
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 5: were actually planning on shooting a Black Love interview the

936
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 5: following day, and so I had equipment with me which

937
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 5: we had to cancel and they've never forgiven me since

938
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 5: because I cancel it them. I couldn't tell them why.

939
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 5: It was Juwan Howard and his wife and they just

940
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 5: thought we blew him off. But anyway, so he called

941
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 5: me at I think it was like ten am. I

942
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 5: was on literally the first flight out of Miami, and

943
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 5: I got there and that evening and we drove. It

944
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 5: was a seven hour drive because they were up in

945
00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 5: Cambridge Springs and so wait where Pennsylvania And so it's

946
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 5: about as far as you can get and still be

947
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 5: in Pennsylvania. And so seven hours drive driven.

948
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 2: Hour from from uh what two hours from Niagara Falls.

949
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 5: But so it's a drive that we made a bunch.

950
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 5: But that was one of the times where it was

951
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 5: just like, okay, it's like there are I went back

952
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 5: and forth a lot. I was probably in Philly. I

953
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 5: was flying back to Philly at least once a month,

954
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 5: sometimes twice a month, and more than that sort of

955
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 5: woul needed, and so I was there as much as

956
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 5: I could. But something like that where we had no

957
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 5: idea when it was going to happen, we couldn't plan for.

958
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 5: I had to rely on him where it was, Hey,

959
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 5: I don't know what this is going to happen, but

960
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 5: can you please make sure you captured and can you

961
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 5: please make sure you captured widescreen? But that didn't happen.

962
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 5: But it's all.

963
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: It was like, wait, so this twenty eighteen, so that means, yeah,

964
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:54,439
Speaker 1: it couldn't happen.

965
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 2: Okay, well I wasn't the one shooting. Somebody else was

966
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: shooting and they didn't you know, even the whole sight.

967
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 3: Well no, it just made it more authentic. And you know,

968
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 3: now I got to go back and relook at it.

969
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 3: But you know, I definitely I remember being floored watching it.

970
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: And that's the.

971
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 3: Thing, like I knew that Tommy knew that I didn't know,

972
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 3: and you were so quiet that day and when it

973
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 3: came I my heart dropped.

974
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,439
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, you didn't know that. You didn't

975
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 4: know how it ended. You didn't know. Is that what

976
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 4: you're saying.

977
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: I thought I was going to just watch.

978
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 3: If I thought watching it, what I thought I was

979
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 3: going to get out of it was how corrupt Rizzo

980
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 3: was as a mayor.

981
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 4: Not a beautiful kind of love.

982
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I wasn't expecting them.

983
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 4: I guess it isn't. It's a themeon.

984
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: It's just I didn't see it coming.

985
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 3: If anything, I thought, okay, well maybe the statue will

986
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 3: come down or better.

987
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: You don't know how many times I go past that mural.

988
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: I just wanted to egg the shit out that mural,

989
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: like that's what I thought I thought the endinge was

990
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: going to be. And then we took there is a

991
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: mural down that's not the.

992
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 4: Right Africa way, and mirror this is what we're learning

993
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 4: right right.

994
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: Yes, but I didn't know about any of these things.

995
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 7: I mean, we had no idea that they were going

996
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 7: to come home.

997
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: During the filming, we talked about it and like this

998
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 2: was supposed to be something that could like bring you know,

999
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 2: life to the case and help get people motivated to

1000
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 2: support them coming home, but there was no you know,

1001
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 2: we were doing all of this other stuff.

1002
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 7: I mean, there's a lot of stuff that did not

1003
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 7: make it.

1004
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: To the film. The work that we were doing, the

1005
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: meeting with the different politicians and the investigators, and we

1006
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: traveled to we almost got arrested, and.

1007
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 5: So I've got so there were several times, like actually

1008
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 5: several times. There was one time where we got I

1009
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 5: got chased off of the prison grounds and they followed us.

1010
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 5: There was another time where I was surrounded by four

1011
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 5: cop cars and about eight cops and it was insane. Also,

1012
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 5: every single time you see any footage at prison. I

1013
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 5: was probably this close to getting arrested because they do

1014
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 5: not allow cameras of I was going to but I

1015
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 5: didn't give a fuck. I needed for time and.

1016
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 2: I had to and I had to play that like

1017
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 2: the bad guy. I was like, Tommy, puts your phone down,

1018
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: but I was like, yeah, you know, but you know,

1019
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 2: but there was a lot of like really close calls

1020
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 2: when he when he was at the prison. We went

1021
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: to the prison to see delb where Delvil was beating

1022
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 2: the prison. He was beating it that he went to

1023
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 2: after he was beaten and all of that, and while

1024
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,919
Speaker 2: we were there, Tommy calls me and there's there after

1025
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 2: you know, they're questioning police are questioning him because of whatever.

1026
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 2: And then when they get off the phone, they come

1027
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 2: to my car and they're like bringing their troops to

1028
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 2: snoop around. And none of that makes it to the film,

1029
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 2: But there was a whole lot of crazy moments where like,

1030
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 2: you know things ship was about to go down, like and.

1031
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 5: Some of it I have and I have it and

1032
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 5: you can see them, and I was sort of discreet

1033
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 5: about it, but I was still going to be like,

1034
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 5: you know what, in case something happens. Actually when I

1035
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 5: got stopped and there were five cops around me. I

1036
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 5: called Sean King and I called him and I texted

1037
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 5: and They'm like, just in case some shit goes down,

1038
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 5: I want you to know where I am. And so, yeah, whoa, yeah,

1039
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 5: they were not playing around, yo.

1040
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 6: Can I ask y'all since y'all mentioned Delbert because not

1041
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 6: for nothing? You know, we talked about and we said

1042
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 6: it as a sport. We were spoiling the end, and

1043
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 6: we've said that Mike's parents were both released. Beautiful ending,

1044
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 6: but at the same time, it was a multi kind

1045
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 6: of layered emotional ending, right because as we're seeing mice

1046
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 6: parents reunite and we're seeing Delbert home, you have this

1047
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 6: moment of like he was in his twenties, he got

1048
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,959
Speaker 6: his ass beat for no fucking reason, Like, can y'all

1049
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 6: talk about Delbert in his life that we things that

1050
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 6: we may have, you know, we didn't.

1051
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 4: Y'all don't get a chance to show in the story.

1052
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 5: And I've actually never talked about this part I am.

1053
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:40,439
Speaker 5: So Delbert got out in January of this year, and

1054
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 5: he did almost forties years, and I'd gotten now Delbert

1055
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 5: pretty well went to see him in prison. A couple

1056
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 5: of times, and he was just a sort of like Mike,

1057
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 5: just a positive, happy, good guy. Actually he kind of

1058
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 5: reminded me of General Iro from Avatar.

1059
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, there you go.

1060
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 5: And I'd gotten to know him and he was just

1061
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 5: a good guy. And then he finally got out, and

1062
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 5: I was there when he got out, And which is

1063
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 5: if I don't know if you've I hope you have,

1064
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 5: but if you haven't, watched to the very end of

1065
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 5: the film, because there's a very small clip of him.

1066
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 5: But the thing that was so hard for me was

1067
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 5: I was just about done editing the film, and the

1068
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 5: ending was really hard because I wanted to figure out

1069
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 5: the right balance of things. And then as I'm doing that,

1070
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 5: Delbert again forty two years in prison, got out in January,

1071
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 5: less than six months, like five and a half months afterward,

1072
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 5: he died. He died, and it broke my heart and

1073
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 5: the balance, the dance of trying to figure out how

1074
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 5: to make sure that I was honoring him, my friend,

1075
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 5: this man who went through so much, but also not

1076
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 5: at It's just there was a lot, because you go

1077
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 5: through this roller coaster of emotions and and like Mayor

1078
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 5: was talking about, it's like as you watch the film,

1079
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 5: it's sort of there where you're like, you want them

1080
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 5: to get out, but you don't want to allow yourself

1081
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 5: to believe that it's going to happen, because the disappointment

1082
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 5: of that happening after allowing yourself to believe is a lot,

1083
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 5: because it's it's typically what happens. And so after sort

1084
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 5: of that a juggle, and then you finally do you

1085
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 5: get there and it's this fairy tale ending, it's this

1086
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 5: thing that's happier and better than you could have ever

1087
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 5: hoped for. And then to show, oh, but Delbert died.

1088
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 5: I didn't see I didn't. I didn't because I could

1089
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 5: not figure out the yo yo of it. Yeah, I

1090
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 5: couldn't figure out how to go from here to here

1091
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 5: to here to hear without it feeling weird, which is

1092
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 5: why it's a here he's there, you see him, you

1093
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 5: hear him. And so that was my way of figuring

1094
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 5: out how to honor who he was and sort of

1095
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 5: what he stood for while still balancing the emotion and

1096
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 5: the journey of the film.

1097
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 6: And you answered a question for the viewer because as

1098
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 6: of viewers and see was such a pivotal part of

1099
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 6: the story. You wanted to know what happened to Dover

1100
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 6: and it was just you came. It was just so

1101
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 6: perfect in his face. Oh and this in years on

1102
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 6: his Oh, it's just so rest in peace.

1103
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 5: That was also one of the happiest things for me

1104
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 5: because I had been I'd seen this guy for so

1105
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 5: long in archival footage and photos and that's all I

1106
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 5: knew him ass And the first time I saw him

1107
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 5: it was plus thirty five years, like there was no gradation,

1108
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,919
Speaker 5: there was nothing in between. It was just, oh, yeah,

1109
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 5: here's this, you know, thirty year old man, here's this

1110
01:03:53,480 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 5: sixty five year old man. And it was trippy.

1111
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 3: Can I ask I guess at the time, when you

1112
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 3: officially have the green light and you're you're doing this project,

1113
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 3: in your mind, are you like this project is over

1114
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 3: when they are released or you know, okay, so say

1115
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 3: their bail gets denied back in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,

1116
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 3: for you, is it just like back before you knew

1117
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 3: there was a chance for it to really happen? Is

1118
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 3: there an alternative ending in your mind that would have

1119
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 3: completed this documentary if they had never gotten out out

1120
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 3: of prison.

1121
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 5: So it's a good question, and it's I'm the personal

1122
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 5: greenlit this film, and so HBO came on as a distributor.

1123
01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 5: But I paid for this film out of my pocket.

1124
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 5: And so it was not about the idea of, hey,

1125
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 5: let's do this as a piece of business that needs

1126
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 5: to make sense and we have to know what these

1127
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 5: things are. I did it because I what Mike was

1128
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 5: doing was important and who he was was somebody that

1129
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 5: I wanted to be able to capture and showcase and

1130
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 5: be around. And that's what it was. And so it wasn't, hey,

1131
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 5: these things need to happen in order for this to

1132
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 5: make sense. It's like, no, it's like I was spending

1133
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 5: my own money. I was doing whatever I needed to

1134
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 5: do to capture it without an HBO, without anybody, and

1135
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 5: you know, that was just what I wanted to do,

1136
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 5: and so it and so in many ways, it's sort

1137
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 5: of running over a cane while building a bridge at

1138
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 5: the same time, and it's just like, you know what,

1139
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 5: I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. And in

1140
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 5: the end, if it doesn't make sense, it's all good.

1141
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 5: It's all good because it's.

1142
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 6: Still information that nobody had too for for sure, Right,

1143
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 6: you're still educating the masses.

1144
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so so much to unpack here, because is there

1145
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 3: is there more story to tell?

1146
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: Like now that this is over, can you officially put

1147
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: this behind you?

1148
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 3: Or is there are there other fights that we don't

1149
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 3: know about or that we're not aware of. So, first

1150
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 3: of all, Mike, are you kind of a qualified paralegal?

1151
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 1: I mean do you?

1152
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 3: First of all, what was day What was day one

1153
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 3: for you when you decided I have to get them home?

1154
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 3: Like what do you remember the day where you're like

1155
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 3: hand on table, Okay, I gotta do this, and I'm

1156
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 3: gonna find go to city hall, find some papers, Like

1157
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 3: what year was it when you were like all right,

1158
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 3: I gotta do this myself twenty fifteen.

1159
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 2: But you know, I think what it was is when

1160
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 2: Romota came and got me, when I Askedally to come

1161
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 2: get me. That was in nineteen ninety two, and she

1162
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: threw me right into I'm in lawyers' offices and learning

1163
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 2: about the case, and the lawyers are quizzing me. They're

1164
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 2: telling me, listen, this is your parents. You need to

1165
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 2: know this information. And I've been around lawyers ever since thirteen,

1166
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 2: fourteen years old, so learning and hearing the language that

1167
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 2: they use and creating strategies and learning about the different

1168
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 2: ways in which that you can insert information to judges

1169
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 2: where they accepted. If you don't do it the right way,

1170
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 2: you don't use a certain language, you don't enter it

1171
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 2: into the right court, it won't be accepted. I was

1172
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 2: learning all of.

1173
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 7: This type of information since then.

1174
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 1: I think as a teenager. Correct, I was fourteen years old.

1175
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 7: I was fourteen years old when I first started in that.

1176
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was falling asleep and lawyer's offices because it

1177
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 2: was boring information I didn't want to hear. I mean,

1178
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 2: it wasn't that I want to, but it was boring.

1179
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 2: I'm fourteen years old.

1180
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:17,799
Speaker 7: I got a namagy I shouldn't play ball, right, So I'm.

1181
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 2: Falling asleep and all that kind of stuff, and they're like,

1182
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes they let me sleep, but sometimes they

1183
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 2: woke me up and made me pay attention. So as

1184
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 2: time went on, I was always around Ramona, I was

1185
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 2: always around Pam, involved them with me and stuff a lot, right,

1186
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 2: learning about his case and the illegal the illegalities of it,

1187
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 2: and the ways in which to try to support him.

1188
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 2: And I've always been involved in it. So in twenty fifteen,

1189
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 2: when Phil passed away in jail, and Ramona had gotten

1190
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 2: sick herself and we found out later that she had

1191
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,719
Speaker 2: stage four can answer and she had had a massive

1192
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 2: stroke too, So she really was like kind of the

1193
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,600
Speaker 2: person that was kind of driving the Move nine information,

1194
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 2: and she was out of the picture because she couldn't

1195
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 2: do it anymore. And she told me, she.

1196
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 7: Said, I said for MoMA. I said, listen, I said, Lona,

1197
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 7: people are.

1198
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 2: Calling me this investigator he's calling and the lawyer wants

1199
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 2: to know something, and we need to pick a lawyer.

1200
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 7: We don't need to have a lawyer for the Move

1201
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 7: nine And what are we going to do?

1202
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 2: And she gave me a sit down and she said, listen,

1203
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: she said, you've been around this information long enough. You're smart.

1204
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 2: Do of those people are your parents, one is your uncle.

1205
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 2: You know all of the people. You know the case,

1206
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 2: and you have plenty of move belief in your head.

1207
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 2: You are going to have to take the lead on

1208
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 2: this stuff and you're going to have to have the

1209
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 2: confidence in yourself to know that you can do it.

1210
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 2: I know that that you can do it. You need

1211
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 2: to know that, so you need to just go ahead

1212
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 2: and do it. So when she told me that, I said, okay.

1213
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 2: And you know, I had my own ideas about what

1214
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 2: I thought should happened, and my dad had been giving

1215
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,719
Speaker 2: me information and my uncle Chuck, who was who's wanting

1216
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 2: to move nine too, my mom's little brother, and they

1217
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,600
Speaker 2: fed me information and I used what I had and

1218
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 2: Tommy was part of it, you know, with him, we

1219
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 2: talked about different things, and then we just kept on

1220
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 2: pushing and eventually we developed a strategy that proved to

1221
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 2: be true, too, proved to be right.

1222
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 7: So that's how it happened.

1223
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: Slight sidebar. I do want to know like human moments,

1224
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: like did you get to go to your prime?

1225
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 7: Do you so so amazingly enough?

1226
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 2: I asked me. When my mom first came home, I

1227
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,759
Speaker 2: told her, I said, Mom, you spent forty years in prison.

1228
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of money, but whatever you

1229
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 2: say you want, I will make it happen. I know

1230
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 2: a lot of people. I don't care what it is.

1231
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 2: Whatever you say you want, I'll make it happen. And

1232
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 2: she was living with me at the time, and Mom

1233
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 2: said to me, she said, honey, I'm just happy to

1234
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,879
Speaker 2: be home with you. She said, you gave me everything

1235
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 2: that I wanted, and now I want you to be

1236
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 2: free and I want you to fly.

1237
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 7: So I'm like, all right, cool. So when when my

1238
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 7: dad came home.

1239
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 5: Wait, wait so quick, quick sidebar. The song that you

1240
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 5: hear when the film ends, fly Baby, that's him. That's him,

1241
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 5: fly Baby.

1242
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 2: Right, based on that conversation we had, So when my

1243
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 2: dad came came home, he says, I say the same

1244
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,560
Speaker 2: thing to him. Dad, you've been in prison forty years.

1245
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 2: You can have I don't care what you asked for.

1246
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of money, but I'll make

1247
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 2: it happen. What do you want, he said, Mike, I

1248
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 2: only want one thing, he said. I want to marry

1249
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 2: your mom. Wow, he said, He said, I want to

1250
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 2: marry your mom like I should have done forty years ago.

1251
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 6: Oh tom oh, Tommy, is it gonna be an episode

1252
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 6: of Black?

1253
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 4: What are we doing? So you?

1254
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 5: I got you because what I did. Sorry to cut

1255
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 5: you off with what I did. There was so much

1256
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 5: footage that did not fit, and had so many interviews

1257
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 5: with Mike and with his mom and with Mike and

1258
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 5: Debbie and so it's just a lot of really cool things.

1259
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 5: So I cut a thirty five minute epilogue and it

1260
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 5: looks at them and it is just so sweet. I'll

1261
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 5: actually send it to you. I'll send it to you tonight,

1262
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 5: and it's actually going to be on HBO as well,

1263
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 5: and so it'll be so like additional content.

1264
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,640
Speaker 4: They are so TV ready, they're so gorgeous.

1265
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 5: It is so I sent it to Mike and his

1266
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 5: parents a month ago.

1267
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 2: To see the wedding. You get to see the wedding.

1268
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 2: And so the wedding cake, that the four tier wedding

1269
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 2: cake we made. We made my mom. So my mom

1270
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 2: is a I'm a fifties man like at heart. My

1271
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 2: mom is a thirties woman at heart. She when they

1272
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 2: said fifteen hundred dollars for cake, what I'm not paying fifteen.

1273
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 8: I'm not letting you paid fifteen. So I'm like, she said,

1274
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 8: we can make that cake and it'll be a great moment.

1275
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 8: I said, yeah, okay, let's do it. It took us

1276
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 8: eleven hours. In the song, I said, we spent the

1277
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 8: night making her wedding cake.

1278
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 7: Wow, And that is in the thing.

1279
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 3: This is now about to turn into reality show. Tyler

1280
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 3: Perry's the Africa's.

1281
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 4: Yes no, but don't let Tyler touch it, don't are you?

1282
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 4: Tommy Africa.

1283
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: From one inspectrum to the other in inspectrum.

1284
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 3: Yes, you guys mentioned something that I personally wanted to know.

1285
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 3: You know, there was a there was a moment in

1286
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 3: the mid nineties, uh, the late the early aughts in

1287
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 3: which a lot of conversations about Mumia's future was up

1288
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 3: in the air, you know, stay of execution. All these

1289
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 3: things haven't heard much since, you know, like I guess

1290
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 3: two thousand and four, two thousand and five. Occasionally when

1291
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 3: when I talked to tom Arello, he'll give me an

1292
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 3: update in general, is there and I don't mean the

1293
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,759
Speaker 3: kind of hope where you like, we hope this happens.

1294
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 3: Where where does Momia stand right now as far as

1295
01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 3: this case concerned. Is there any hope or for his

1296
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 3: eventual release or total exoneration or just the general story.

1297
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 7: Definitely, So that's what we're working on now.

1298
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 2: So you know, it's funny like the HBO poster has

1299
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 2: a picture of me and the Move nine above me,

1300
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 2: and it says he will never be free until his

1301
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:22,719
Speaker 2: family comes home, right, And that's such a true statement.

1302
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 2: Mamia I've been I've known Mamia since I was a kid,

1303
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 2: and my work around the Move nine doesn't end with

1304
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 2: trying to get them. Trying to get them home is

1305
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 2: equally distributed, and probably even more so with Momia, Like

1306
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 2: I have just as many files on Mamia as I

1307
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 2: do on the Move nine. And so my work has

1308
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 2: been in large part to help with his case too.

1309
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 2: And in the early part of this year, in January,

1310
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 2: he was granted by Judge Leon Tucker the right to

1311
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:03,759
Speaker 2: appeal his case and a PCR post conviction relief appeal

1312
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:08,639
Speaker 2: was granted, and so it was in Larry Krasner's hands.

1313
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 2: Larry Krasner was then attacked by Marie Faulkner as being

1314
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:13,720
Speaker 2: saying that.

1315
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 7: She was saying that he was prejudiced. He was on

1316
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 7: the MIA's side and all of this.

1317
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 2: So she created this thing that got it pushed into

1318
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court's hands. And so now it's kind of

1319
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 2: in limbo and with COVID things are moving much slower.

1320
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:32,600
Speaker 2: But the answer to your question is, yes, there's a

1321
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:37,280
Speaker 2: real chance that Mumia Abu Jamal could be free, and

1322
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 2: we're working on that very hard and if we can

1323
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 2: get the result that we're that we expect that we

1324
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 2: can get. Ironically enough, he could come home. During that

1325
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:49,800
Speaker 2: forty year mark too.

1326
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 4: Wow, Where's where's he at now?

1327
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 5: Ye?

1328
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 2: Right, he's at uh In on December ninth, This December ninth,

1329
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 2: March year thirty nine. Yeah, okay, so next year is

1330
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 2: year forty and we expect that we can get him

1331
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 2: home within that year forty Okay?

1332
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 3: Can you are you allowed to speak at all? What

1333
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 3: your personal theories are? Similar to good sort of saying

1334
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:23,599
Speaker 3: that it was most likely friendly fly fire and this

1335
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 3: was a setup?

1336
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: Is what is the story on that particular with Daniel

1337
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 1: Faulkner and right that case, the.

1338
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 2: Story is Mumia was a cab driver who was dropping

1339
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 2: off of Fair and thirteenth and Locusts at the time.

1340
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 2: His brother was His brother and his brother's friend were

1341
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 2: bending and they were when he pulled up on the scene.

1342
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 2: When Moumia pulled up on the scene, he saw his

1343
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 2: brother's brother being beat by policeman Daniel Faulkner with a

1344
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 2: right He was beating in with a flashlight, a police flashlight.

1345
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 2: Mamia goes over to intervene. The officer shoots Mamiya and

1346
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:15,720
Speaker 2: Mamiya is shot, unconscious and ben and taken to the hospital.

1347
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,759
Speaker 2: And when he wakes up, he's handcuffed to a bed

1348
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 2: and he's told that an officer was killed and he's

1349
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:25,240
Speaker 2: the one being charged.

1350
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 7: With the murder. That's what happened.

1351
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 2: And there's so much like so many witnesses who said

1352
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 2: that Mumiya did not do it, do it. He was

1353
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 2: not the shooter. But there are so many like they're

1354
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 2: specifically Veronica Jones was an eyewitness said that Mumia Abu

1355
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 2: Jamal did not shoot this cop. We saw the man

1356
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 2: who did it. We saw him run away. There were

1357
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 2: more than more than her, and who said that the

1358
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 2: security guards that were intimidated into they were intimidated by

1359
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 2: the officers into changing their stories to say Mumia Abu

1360
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:06,559
Speaker 2: Jamal was the one who killed the cops. So there's

1361
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 2: all this evidence that proves that Mumia is innocent. But

1362
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:13,599
Speaker 2: you know, because he supported moved the way he did,

1363
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:16,639
Speaker 2: Rizzo threatened him. He actually said it in the press conference.

1364
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 2: These reporters blah blah blah blah blah. We need to

1365
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 2: get that death penalty back. Then I'll be there to

1366
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 2: pull switch that kind of thing. So uh me a

1367
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 2: supported move and that's and and so he was he

1368
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 2: was a target because of it.

1369
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 3: Any other political prisoners in Philadelphia that we might not

1370
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:33,160
Speaker 3: be aware of.

1371
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Russell, Maroon Shows, Joseph Jojo Bowen, Fred Muhammad Burton.

1372
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 7: There's a lot of political prisoners in Pennsylvania, and then.

1373
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:48,640
Speaker 2: There's a lot outside too, Motulu Shakur stepfather of tupac Uh.

1374
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:51,559
Speaker 2: And then some people are not even political prisoners, but

1375
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 2: they're exiled because of the tyranny of this country, like

1376
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:56,840
Speaker 2: a side of Shakur. So you know, there's a lot

1377
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 2: of a lot of a lot of repair that needs

1378
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:01,639
Speaker 2: to be done. But my focus specific typically is on Mamia.

1379
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 2: We we have a real shot to get him out.

1380
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 2: And I mean I focus on Maroon two and freyd

1381
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 2: Mohammed Burton too, and I speak their names and everything

1382
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:15,679
Speaker 2: and I support them one hundred percent too. But Mumiya

1383
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 2: is a very very personal battle for me because of

1384
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 2: how he was there for my family when no.

1385
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:24,240
Speaker 7: Other news media was there for my family.

1386
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 4: The Philadelphia police.

1387
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, the things I learned, man, what can I say, Like,

1388
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 3: I really want to thank you guys for doing this,

1389
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:42,559
Speaker 3: just that you know, as as as a black man,

1390
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 3: as a as a Philadelphian, definitely, this is this is

1391
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 3: one of the kind of the unanswered questions that I've

1392
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 3: had in my life that I didn't know about. And

1393
01:20:55,800 --> 01:21:02,520
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that the world will finally get to

1394
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:03,640
Speaker 3: see this documentary.

1395
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 4: Can we just mentioned the mirror. You're not gonna plug it,

1396
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 4: but I will.

1397
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 6: This is the first project that I've seen your name

1398
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 6: black thought comment, John forgot that Jackson.

1399
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 4: I'm just saying saying about me, man, I'm just saying.

1400
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 6: But that's dope that y'all saw that there was a

1401
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 6: reason there was a.

1402
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 1: Need for Yeah, I totally forgot.

1403
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 3: Yes, we're also we did music for the project as well.

1404
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 1: Forgive me, I mean, like no.

1405
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 3: For me, Like the story is so the story is

1406
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 3: so important that you know, I kind of forgot that

1407
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 3: I played a part in this as well, and I'm

1408
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,799
Speaker 3: glad to be included because I was feeling a certain way.

1409
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 9: Might say that I really appreciate your involvement because you know,

1410
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:49,760
Speaker 9: it wasn't a lot of people are really afraid to

1411
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 9: talk about this story. A lot of people were really

1412
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 9: afraid to get on board and support move, even though

1413
01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 9: they may have been sympathetic. So I really, you know,

1414
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 9: was thrilled to here Tommy tell me, like, hey, guess

1415
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 9: who guess who we got to help with the with

1416
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 9: the film, and I'm like, oh, he's like the biggest

1417
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 9: Dan you can think of.

1418
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what do you mean, the biggest thing. No,

1419
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 2: the biggest Okay, Philly, Philly, Like yeah, I'm like, no,

1420
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 2: you didn't, you know, So like yeah, man, I just

1421
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 2: you know, really appreciate you, you know, and gave Tommy

1422
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,800
Speaker 2: a chance to show it, to see the film, you know.

1423
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 7: So I just want to thank.

1424
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:37,840
Speaker 1: You, no, thank you.

1425
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 3: When I got admit when it was happening and my

1426
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 3: manager Sean g told me about it, he was like, yeah,

1427
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,800
Speaker 3: you know comming and John Legend.

1428
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 5: Wait a minute, wait a minute, you did me or

1429
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 5: I would have did the same thing.

1430
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 4: They can't happ on it before me full time.

1431
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:56,640
Speaker 3: I mean technically, look, you know a lot of a

1432
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,920
Speaker 3: lot of a lot a lot of John's education and

1433
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 3: oakness and right now he's a soldier. Yes, it was

1434
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 3: was acquired and learned.

1435
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 1: At University of pen No, dude, right now.

1436
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 4: John, I'm not cutting John down at all. I was

1437
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 4: just saying that you.

1438
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 3: Created the toxicity that's happening right now with a lot

1439
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:22,439
Speaker 3: of my heroes and hip hop. Yeah, John Legend is yeah,

1440
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 3: he trust me, he's frontline.

1441
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was like, yo, we gotta get somehow get down.

1442
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 1: But I'm very.

1443
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 5: Happy as somebody who is from Philly who grew up

1444
01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 5: on the roots, and there was just there was nothing

1445
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 5: better than that. And shout out to Derek Dudley, who's

1446
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 5: the person who actually introduced me to Sean, and he

1447
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:49,400
Speaker 5: was like done, I got you. Sean came to the

1448
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 5: office watch and he's like, yeah, yeah, we need to

1449
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 5: do this, and it was just it's just been nothing

1450
01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:58,120
Speaker 5: but love the entire time.

1451
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 3: And I got it. I got admit that this was

1452
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 3: probably the perfect platform. Sean couldn't have been happier to

1453
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:16,360
Speaker 3: have made this happen, because, you know, we had we

1454
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 3: had a passing of like our manager, Richard Nichols was

1455
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:23,479
Speaker 3: like you know, he was he was like our fifth Beatle,

1456
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,640
Speaker 3: and when he passed away in twenty fourteen, the Lukema

1457
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,800
Speaker 3: it was kind of an unspoken thing, even though I

1458
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,799
Speaker 3: never believed it in my heart. It was sort of like, well,

1459
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 3: I guess we're not going to make records anymore. And

1460
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 3: you know, I spent a lot of time since you know,

1461
01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:46,400
Speaker 3: late twenty thirteen, early twenty fourteen, thinking of, you know,

1462
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 3: other ways to be creative, and that's when I like

1463
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 3: started writing a lot of books and doing like a

1464
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:54,320
Speaker 3: lot of other things besides making like any excuse to

1465
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 3: not make an album. So you know, I couldn't, I

1466
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:01,880
Speaker 3: couldn't think of a better way, uh, for us to

1467
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:06,599
Speaker 3: get back in the studio six years, seven years after

1468
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 3: having not created anything inside of the studio with each

1469
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 3: other than this project. So you know, again, I thank

1470
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 3: you both because this, like once we started this, then

1471
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:26,080
Speaker 3: this really just unleashed a flooding. You know, we're subsequently

1472
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 3: working on three records right now.

1473
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 4: So well, thank you, Mike.

1474
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I said, you too.

1475
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 5: I am very happy to have played.

1476
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:42,679
Speaker 1: From the far.

1477
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:46,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, I'll take it. I'm putting that in my bio.

1478
01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 2: Like that.

1479
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 4: You can, I can.

1480
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 5: But I can't wait for the world to actually hear

1481
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 5: the tracks.

1482
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:58,600
Speaker 4: Because I don't know what I'm talking about.

1483
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,800
Speaker 5: Because nobody's heard of me. And so you can hear

1484
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 5: him the trailer, you can hear one of the instrumentals,

1485
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 5: and then one of the things, one of the songs afterward,

1486
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:10,719
Speaker 5: which is just fire and Tarik. So there's this line.

1487
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:13,240
Speaker 5: First time I heard it, I just it stuck with

1488
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 5: me so much. And what he says is every time

1489
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 5: I fight, the reason I fight is to not fight again.

1490
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 5: And yes, somebody who grew up in Philly fighting, you

1491
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:25,120
Speaker 5: don't fight because you want to fight, I gues that's

1492
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 5: not what it's about. And so he just captured it

1493
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 5: so succinctly. And to understand what Mike's doing, what we're

1494
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 5: doing in this movement, it's not about fighting for the

1495
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:35,839
Speaker 5: sake of fighting. We want to fight to get things

1496
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 5: into a better place for us but also for kids.

1497
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:44,840
Speaker 5: And so the music is just it's fire. So I

1498
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 5: cannot wait for people to actually hear all of the tracks,

1499
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 5: the whole ep, and it's just.

1500
01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 1: I gotta say that, you know, for a lot of

1501
01:26:57,720 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 1: for a lot of them.

1502
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 3: I never said the Roots Army before in my life,

1503
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 3: but I guess I'll see now at a lot of

1504
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 3: people that have history with the roots, you know, for

1505
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 3: the longest they they've put us under. You know this,

1506
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 3: I guess, you know, socially conscious or political rap thing,

1507
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 3: which you know I used to joke a lot and

1508
01:27:21,240 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 3: say like, well, okay, I know we're politically correct, but

1509
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:28,280
Speaker 3: you know, just because you know we aren't cutting keys

1510
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:31,720
Speaker 3: and drug deal in our songs doesn't necessarily sarily mean

1511
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:35,880
Speaker 3: that we're a political group per se. And then there

1512
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 3: became a point when we were like thirty five, like

1513
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 3: all right, someone's gonna call us out one day and

1514
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:44,240
Speaker 3: realize that we're not as political as we were. So,

1515
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:48,599
Speaker 3: you know, a lot a lot of our post two

1516
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:51,640
Speaker 3: thousand and eight material, especially you know the time in

1517
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:53,599
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight when the murder rate in Philly

1518
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 3: was astounding and we were under what we thought was

1519
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:01,680
Speaker 3: the worst presidency of all time with a Bush. You know,

1520
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:03,479
Speaker 3: it's like, okay, well, we can only go for so

1521
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:07,559
Speaker 3: long talking about you know, how how diggity dope our

1522
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 3: stickity styles are in riggity rapping, and so you know,

1523
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 3: we kind of had this streak of like the last

1524
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:16,639
Speaker 3: four albums of like these like dark political records, which

1525
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 3: I don't think was performative at all, but really like

1526
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:22,080
Speaker 3: represented where we were at the time, because you know,

1527
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 3: you can't turn your back on no matter like how

1528
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 3: much success you have, like you still have a cousin,

1529
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 3: like you might the same with your fight, Like okay, great,

1530
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 3: you got your parents out, but you know there's more

1531
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 3: fight to go you know, I kind of thought that

1532
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 3: we were going to close the chapter on the darkness

1533
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:43,439
Speaker 3: of roots albums with our last album and then you

1534
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:47,600
Speaker 3: shoot your cousin basically because that was the album that

1535
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 3: we were making as our manager and co producer Rich

1536
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 3: was dying. So if anything, that album was more of

1537
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 3: our very dark goodbye to him. So I'd sort of

1538
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 3: forgive roots fans for like, that's way too dark for me.

1539
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 3: I can't take this shit. But you know, if you

1540
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 3: knew Rich, that was like the perfect send off. So

1541
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:10,639
Speaker 3: the thing was in my mind, I thought, Okay, well

1542
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 3: we are gonna I'm gonna shock the world and just

1543
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 3: return to the first four records, like the Sunday Afternoon

1544
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 3: House Cleaning Roots album that everyone wants us to do.

1545
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:26,680
Speaker 1: But we're living in you know, this time now and.

1546
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:30,400
Speaker 3: You know, since twenty sixteen and utter Madness in the

1547
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:34,200
Speaker 3: upside Down, and I was like, yo, man, it's not

1548
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:36,360
Speaker 3: time to make a lighthearted record like we got one,

1549
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 3: more like this is our chance to make our statements.

1550
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:42,559
Speaker 3: So if anything, I feel like this this album really

1551
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:46,559
Speaker 3: puts in context of what the last five albums have

1552
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:49,640
Speaker 3: been about. So yeah, I'm excited for people to hear it,

1553
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 3: you know, and again we're making three records, so this

1554
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 3: is this is just one of three of us unpaid

1555
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:01,960
Speaker 3: bill What do you think? Oh no, I'm babe bills

1556
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:06,599
Speaker 3: on Sesame Street. This is Sugar Steve. Wait, damn sugar Steve. Yeah,

1557
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:08,960
Speaker 3: you know, I'm just I'm just here together for sure,

1558
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:10,559
Speaker 3: report back to white people.

1559
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:15,200
Speaker 7: So he said.

1560
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 4: That he did, he did?

1561
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 8: How long?

1562
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 7: How long did it take for the I'm sorry to

1563
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 7: extend the sorry I didn't know.

1564
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,599
Speaker 3: Steve has lived with this project enough because he's engineered

1565
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:29,719
Speaker 3: the record for us, So.

1566
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 7: I mean I haven't I haven't seen the documentary in full.

1567
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:39,600
Speaker 2: But uh, my one question was how long did it

1568
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:42,400
Speaker 2: take for you to make this this documentary from start

1569
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:42,880
Speaker 2: to finish?

1570
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 5: It took about three and a half years until about

1571
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 5: two and a half years or so of shooting and

1572
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:51,759
Speaker 5: about a year of editing.

1573
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:54,679
Speaker 1: I haven't a fully archival question.

1574
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:59,599
Speaker 3: Once again, yes, also because of what I'm working on

1575
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 3: right now now, I just discovered did you use any

1576
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 3: of the archival footage?

1577
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:06,599
Speaker 4: Uh?

1578
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 3: Do you know of this woman in Philadelphia whom I

1579
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 3: guess her backstory is that she did not trust the government.

1580
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 3: I actually thought she was down with move. She did

1581
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:21,640
Speaker 3: not trust the government, a Philadelphia woman. And what she

1582
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 3: did was she purchased five Beta Max machines. Yes, and

1583
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 3: she obsessively, she obsessively recorded.

1584
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:36,680
Speaker 5: The problem it was I found I came across her,

1585
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:39,200
Speaker 5: I saw an article and I looked her up. The

1586
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:44,880
Speaker 5: problem was her recording started I think four months after this,

1587
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:52,320
Speaker 5: and so she recorded everything. She has this incredible database

1588
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:56,639
Speaker 5: of everything that happened. It was insane.

1589
01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 3: But we think, think of think of a put she

1590
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:02,320
Speaker 3: would have. She would have been a perfect fit for

1591
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 3: a quest Love Supreme, like she was a pop culture hoarder.

1592
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:09,040
Speaker 1: Like she recorded. She recorded.

1593
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:10,559
Speaker 3: I don't know how she I don't know if she

1594
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:14,560
Speaker 3: had a job or anything, but she literally recorded whatever

1595
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 3: was on television.

1596
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 1: What thirty seven years in a row?

1597
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:22,280
Speaker 5: Yes, I believe that was.

1598
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:25,320
Speaker 1: She started what seventy seven I think.

1599
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:27,439
Speaker 5: I think it was sometime in seventy eight.

1600
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:31,439
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, she got five Beta Max machines. Said I

1601
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 3: don't trust the government, so I'm gonna record everything on

1602
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:39,599
Speaker 3: NBC ABC. So she brought five VC, five Beta maxes,

1603
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:41,839
Speaker 3: and five televisions.

1604
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,479
Speaker 1: And all she did was she would change tapes every

1605
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:51,360
Speaker 1: four hours like clockwork. Is insane, but like over not help.

1606
01:32:52,479 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 3: I think like four thousand tapes at the end of

1607
01:32:56,560 --> 01:33:00,120
Speaker 3: the day. So yeah, I wanted to know if you use.

1608
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:04,639
Speaker 5: Then honestly, if we start actually talking about our travel process,

1609
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:05,559
Speaker 5: we'll be here for.

1610
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 4: Another for process. I'm sorry.

1611
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 5: The name of the film, do you who do you

1612
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:12,800
Speaker 5: think it's referring to?

1613
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:16,560
Speaker 1: I assumed that it was about Mike, because.

1614
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,719
Speaker 5: So see, that's the thing where some people will be like, oh, yeah,

1615
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 5: it's it's it's parents, his parents, and like, no, it's

1616
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:32,120
Speaker 5: it's Mike. Oh it's Mike. It's Mike. And if you

1617
01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 5: and a mirror.

1618
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:37,280
Speaker 4: God, because he's he's a yes exactly.

1619
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 5: And and his dad is the one who really brings

1620
01:33:41,160 --> 01:33:43,639
Speaker 5: that home in the end where he talks about us

1621
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 5: being home freed him and it took the burden off

1622
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:50,439
Speaker 5: of him so he could actually live his life.

1623
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:53,120
Speaker 2: That's funny about that. I never knew my dad felt

1624
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:54,759
Speaker 2: that way until I saw that interview.

1625
01:33:56,400 --> 01:34:00,120
Speaker 3: Again, when we have a question of supreme we think

1626
01:34:00,120 --> 01:34:04,040
Speaker 3: you Mike, God, Africa Junior and Tommy Oliver for joining

1627
01:34:04,120 --> 01:34:08,080
Speaker 3: us on behalf of Fontigelow and Unpaid Bill and Sugar,

1628
01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:12,519
Speaker 3: Steve and Layah and Philadelphia.

1629
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:15,320
Speaker 1: Zone from Melis Avenue, Quest Love. This is Quest Love

1630
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:18,160
Speaker 1: Supreme signing off. We will see you on the next program.

1631
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 1: Thank you yo.

1632
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:22,280
Speaker 5: What's up? This is Fante.

1633
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 2: Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at

1634
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:26,920
Speaker 2: QLs and let us know what you think and.

1635
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 1: Who should be next to sit down with us.

1636
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,719
Speaker 5: Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast all right peace.

1637
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

1638
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:48,880
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1639
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:52,480
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.