1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 3: writer and course creator. We are two working parents who 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 3: love our careers and our families. 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long. 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: Term career goals. 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 2: This episode is airing in mid to late April of 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. I am going to be interviewing Whitney English, 15 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: who is an entrepreneur an author. She has a brand 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: new book coming out later this month called Organized First, 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: Decorate Second. That's obviously a certain worldview that I guess 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: she wants us to follow there. So we're very excited 19 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: to have Whitney on the show. 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: I'm very excited for you to talk to her, just 21 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 3: because I've known her name for so long. She created 22 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 3: the day Designer and then she pivoted to her own 23 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: line of planners, and you used one for a while, 24 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: So did you guys talk about that at all. 25 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: Well, we didn't really talk about it that much because 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: it planners was not the major. 27 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Focus of our time. 28 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: We've been talking more like organizing and spring cleaning and 29 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: things like that. But yeah, I was introduced to the 30 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: Whitney English line of products because I was a guest 31 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: on a certain show called Best Laid Plans many years ago, 32 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: when Sarah was doing her planner matchmaking. Do you remember that, 33 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: I should do it again? Yeah, Well, she matched me 34 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: up with a Whitney English week on a page I 35 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: believe it was called planner, and. 36 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: So I had those for two to. 37 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: Three years, and then she transitioned out of making those 38 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: with specific dates because. 39 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I for reasons. 40 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: I think you've looked into the economics of this too, 41 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: Like if one is going to sell a planner, the 42 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: issues of making a very nicely created, good paper, well 43 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: bound planner. They are expensive and if they have a 44 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: specific year's date on them, they become totally obsolete by 45 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 2: about two three months into the year, when people aren't 46 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: buying yearly planners anymore. So she'd be on selling one 47 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: that doesn't have dates. But you know, I kind of 48 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: wanted to have the dates. I don't know that she's 49 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: going to be selling those long term either, because she's 50 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: a fascinating pushing there's a lot of different directions you 51 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: can tell talking to her. She's so creative, and she 52 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: I think has kept her business fresh and exciting by 53 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: being willing to pivot frequently, and I think that's really cool. 54 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: Totally cool. 55 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 3: Interestingly, the only way to get around that dated issue, 56 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 3: which not that I'm planning on launching a planner anytime soon, 57 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 3: but is that you only sell on pre order. So 58 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 3: you tell your people, you're like, this planner doesn't even 59 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 3: exist yet, to order it like four months in advance, 60 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: and then once you've ordered it, I will print it 61 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 3: for you for you, versus I have stacks of the 62 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: expensive twenty twenty six planner lying around. That is a 63 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 3: pure liability for me if they don't sell well. 64 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: And I wound up going recently in the past few 65 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: years then with plum papers, notes and days, I think 66 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: is what it's called, and that's something to you pay 67 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 2: to have it printed for you. It is custom designed, 68 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 2: and so that's obviously its own business model as well. 69 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: But we talked more about organizing and decorating, which Sarah, 70 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: I would like to ask, how is your home organization 71 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: project going. I mean, I know you've had other things 72 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: going on this year. 73 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I haven't done much. I feel like I'm 74 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 3: ready to like make a very non aggressive list of 75 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 3: things that I'd like to get organized over the next 76 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 3: few months, like very specific, doable things. And especially because 77 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: maybe I do have a little bit more time since 78 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: I am not spending as much time running and I'm 79 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: looking for things to do, I think I could get 80 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: around that. But no, I'm not like even feeling ready 81 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 3: to be like I want to organize my whole home 82 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: or anything like that. 83 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 4: I don't. 84 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: I can't decide if I even ever need that. 85 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sort of I'm thinking I should try to 86 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 2: channel I mean, I don't know. 87 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: April is like ridiculous. 88 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 2: This month is totally ridiculous and may will be too, 89 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: So I don't maybe this is going to be a 90 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: later project. I had this like spring cleaning energy. I'm 91 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: just massively short on time. But there's certain things I 92 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 2: want to do, like clean out the mudroom because as 93 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: we're moving the coats to storage for summer, we could 94 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 2: go through the bins of shoes. Many of which have 95 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: shoes from like two years ago, because kids grow out 96 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: of shoes and they get new ones and then the 97 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: old ones are in the bin still and they're never 98 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: going to wear the shoes from two years ago. 99 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: So I don't know why we still have them sitting there. 100 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 2: Tidying up the porch, I mean, we start hanging out 101 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: on the porch a little bit more, doing chalk on 102 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: the driveway and all that, and stuff just accumulates there. 103 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 2: Still have stuff from last summer that's overwintered there on 104 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 2: the porch and it is looking a little rougher as a 105 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: result of having overwintered outside on the porch. 106 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: I also want to clean out my car. It's time, Sarah. 107 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: That's a twice a year activity for us. 108 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 3: These days, we've moved from the once a year to 109 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 3: twice a year, and it's oooh, it's about right. 110 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: It's about right. Yeah, No, I think it could really 111 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: use it. So I think of maybe a calling one 112 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: of those services as they come to your driveway and 113 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: like detail the whole car. 114 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: I think, I think maybe I'll do that. You can 115 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: totally do that a little treat for myself. 116 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: All right, We're delighted to have Whitney English joining us again, 117 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: the author of Organized First, Decorate Second, which will be 118 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: out later this month. 119 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: So let's hear what Whitney has to say. 120 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: Well, Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Whitney English 121 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: to the show. So Whitney, could you introduce yourself to 122 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: our listeners. 123 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 5: Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. 124 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 5: My name is Whitney English. I am an author and 125 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 5: artist and designer, and I and a wife and a mom. 126 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 5: I have three kids, ages fifteen, fourteen, and twelve. You 127 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 5: have to do the math on that every time I 128 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 5: feel it. And my second book is coming out on 129 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 5: April twenty ninth. I think we're going to talk about 130 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,679 Speaker 5: that some and so anyway, that's the short version. 131 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome. I have a couple kids around those ages too. 132 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: My middle ones are fifteen and thirteen and ten, so 133 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: appreciate how. 134 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: That goes with the household. 135 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: But yeah, let's talk about the book because you have 136 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: a new one out called Organize First, Decorate Second, which 137 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: seems to imply a certain worldview of how we should 138 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 2: be doing things, what order we should be doing things. 139 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: So I'm very curious why you decided to spread the 140 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: message about that to order in which we should tackle things. 141 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 4: That is a great question. 142 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 5: Also, you've written several books as well, right, yes, a 143 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 5: couple of which I've read. 144 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: Oh well, well that's exciting. 145 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 146 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 5: So there's nothing like a little intimidation factor realizing that 147 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 5: I'm talking to an author who's written about productivity. So 148 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 5: I have adhd I talk about this in the book. 149 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 5: I know that that is a different experience for everyone. 150 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 5: And I also love stuff, and stuff loves me. I 151 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 5: am a magnet to stuff. I come by hoarding in 152 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 5: a hereditary sense, I mean both sides. It's a strong gene. 153 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 5: And I was just petting around the house one day, 154 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 5: just tidying stuff up, and I thought to myself, it 155 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 5: was that internal monologue that most women have, that just 156 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 5: you're talking to yourself. You're telling yourself you can do this, 157 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 5: or you're telling yourself you don't want to do it, 158 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 5: or whatever it is. And I just thought to myself, organized, 159 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 5: first decorate, second Whitney. And then as a writer, you're 160 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 5: like that, that's a catchy ring to it. I don't know, 161 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 5: and maybe that could be a book title. And then 162 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 5: my editor said, give me some ideas and I threw 163 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 5: that one out there and she said, yeah, let's explore this. 164 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 5: I said, do you realize that I'm not naturally organized 165 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 5: at all? And she insisted that that was the reason 166 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:16,559 Speaker 5: why I needed to write the book. 167 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 4: So here we are. 168 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: Here we are. 169 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have learned to organize first and decorate second. 170 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: Well, I wonder if you could talk a little bit 171 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: about that. 172 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: I mean, what does ADHD do in terms of trying 173 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: to create household systems and organize a home and run 174 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 2: a family. I'm curious how exactly that plays out in 175 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: terms of the challenges one might experience, how. 176 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 5: It manifest itself. I think it's different for everyone. But 177 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 5: for me, and I have not measured the chemicals in 178 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 5: my brain, I don't even know if that's possible, not 179 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 5: a neuroscientist, but for me, it feels like a lack 180 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 5: of dopamine. The reason I say that is because whenever 181 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 5: I do start getting stuff done, even if it's just 182 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 5: small things, I notice a momentum that kind of picks up, 183 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 5: that starts to feel like maybe we were going someplace 184 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 5: here instead of just sitting here doing nothing or thinking 185 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 5: I really need to go change the laundry. Or I 186 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 5: really need to go prune the rose bushes. So sometimes 187 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 5: I feel like exercising that mental muscle. I don't talk 188 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 5: about this in the book, but I think, I mean, 189 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 5: I think that the whole conversation is And really that's 190 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 5: another reason for writing a book, because you're interested in something. 191 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 5: You're like, I want to have a conversation about this 192 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 5: and see if there are other people out there that 193 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 5: want to talk about it too, even if their experiences 194 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 5: might be different than mine. But in our house, several 195 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 5: people have ADHD and it just ends up creating a 196 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 5: lot of clutter over time. You know, kids drop their 197 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 5: shoes by the back door. You can put a laundry 198 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 5: basket right there, but they will drop the laundry right 199 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 5: beside the laundry basket. And I do the same thing. 200 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 5: So really, in writing it, I hope that people get 201 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 5: the message that you just have to figure out what 202 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 5: works for you. Yeah, and hack your own systems. That's 203 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 5: really the crux of it. 204 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 205 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: Well, it's so interesting because I think a lot of 206 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 2: adult women realize at some point that they have ADHD or. 207 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: Some other sort of neuro non typical wiring. Yeah, and it. 208 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 2: Wasn't diagnosed when they were young because they're not a 209 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 2: little boy jumping around in class, So it's not it 210 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 2: doesn't manifest in the sort of stereotypical ways. 211 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, I was diagnosed as an adult. In looking back, 212 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 5: it made a lot of sense. I struggled as a student, 213 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 5: just couldn't. Like there were just certain classes I could not. 214 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 5: I think that's why I majored into your design. I 215 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 5: think that's why I went into a creative field. It 216 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 5: is because I'm like, I can do a project. I 217 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 5: could stay up until four am and color pictures of 218 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 5: interiors and paint things and craft things. But passing the 219 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 5: marketing test was really tough for me, getting anything about 220 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 5: a seventy six. I remember, I tried so hard. I 221 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 5: just knew if I applied myself, I could do it, 222 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 5: because I'm not dumb. But it's just really it was 223 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 5: a big challenge. 224 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Well, so let's dive into this a little bit. 225 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 2: You know a lot of people wind up with that 226 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: kind of spring cleaning energy at this time of year 227 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: when this is airing and when as your book is 228 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: coming out. So you've recasted getting organized. Part of this 229 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: is decluttering. But you say you prefer the word editing. 230 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 2: So I love editing myself when it comes to words. 231 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: But why is editing the right way to think about 232 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: our homes and our spaces. 233 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a great question. So I have two stories 234 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 5: on that. A few years ago, we were in a 235 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 5: different spot in life. I'm just gonna I'm gonna shorten 236 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 5: the story, and I needed some help with my house, 237 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 5: and so I reached out to a local interior designer. 238 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 5: Even though I consider myself to be a designer, different 239 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 5: designers have different skill sets. I don't like doing bookshelves. 240 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 5: She liked doing bookshelves. Okay, you want to do my 241 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 5: bookshlves do my bookshelves. And she said, okay, let's put 242 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 5: together a Pinterest board. And we just started throwing things 243 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 5: together and at one point in time, I can't remember 244 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 5: how it came up, but she said, it really is 245 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 5: just all about the edit. And I kind of let 246 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 5: that sink in. She was a talented designer. I really 247 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 5: appreciated her point of view and just the idea of 248 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 5: reviewing these images and looking at them and editing the 249 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 5: images to create a visual story. I mean, it's similar 250 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 5: to using to editing words. We're creating a visual story 251 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 5: on a private Pinterest board that tells us the direction 252 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 5: that the story's going to go. So that resonated with 253 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 5: me before that, and I do talk about this story 254 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 5: in My mom I also say in the I grew 255 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 5: up in a museum. We can talk about. 256 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: We can talk about that too, if you want to 257 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 4: unpack that. 258 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 5: But I've unpacked that with my therapist a lot over 259 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 5: the course of writing the book. But my mother came 260 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 5: to visit me. I was living in Dallas. It was 261 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 5: right after I had graduated from college, and I was 262 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 5: working at a retail furniture sales job. And she left 263 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 5: and I had gone to work that morning, and when 264 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 5: I came home from work, she had left little tent 265 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 5: cards all around my apartment on tabletops that said edit 266 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 5: in big capital perfect handwriting letters. 267 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 4: And it's funny. 268 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 5: When I was writing that story, I told a few people, 269 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 5: a couple of friends, and they were like, oh, my. 270 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 4: Gosh, I would have been so offended. 271 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 5: But I think the thing with my mom is you 272 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 5: just can't get offended if you want a relationship with her, 273 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 5: And so I didn't take it that way. I took 274 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 5: it as Okay, someone loves me. They know that I 275 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 5: have aspirations to have a beautiful home in a beautiful space, 276 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 5: and she just means well by encouraging me to not 277 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 5: have so many knickknacks lying around. I've noticed that in 278 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 5: my own home, like if things start to feel too decluttered, 279 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 5: I mean really, it's just going through and being like, 280 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 5: does this serve me anymore? In picking and choosing and 281 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 5: letting go of what doesn't. 282 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, it makes sense. 283 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: I mean with editing a story, editing a visual story, 284 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 2: we were always just trying to remove what shouldn't be 285 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: there in order to have the truth shine through. 286 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: Well, We're going to take a quick ad break and I. 287 00:14:53,800 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: Will be back with more from Whitney English. Well, I 288 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 2: am back interviewing Whitney English, who is the author of 289 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: the brand new book called Organized First, Decorate Second. She 290 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: also has a great website, Whitney English, where you can 291 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 2: find various wonderful things. I've purchased some planners off of 292 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 2: there in the past, which. 293 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: We could talk about later. 294 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 2: But let's say that somebody is about to you know, 295 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: they've got this spring cleaning energy, and yet they're like, well, okay, 296 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: everything's a mess. 297 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: I don't know where to start. Where should they start. 298 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 5: You've heard that phrase eat that frog. I am not 299 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 5: a fan of eating frogs. 300 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 2: We're not eating frogs. And okay, I like, we're not 301 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: eating frogs today. Okay, what are we doing? 302 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 5: We are doing the easiest thing first. We are looking 303 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 5: for the path of least resistance. You've probably also read 304 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 5: Stephen Pressfield. He talks about the resistance capital R like 305 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 5: that thing that creatives struggle against. And it's for me, 306 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 5: back to the ADHD. It's all about just getting that 307 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 5: dopamine going, just priming the pump, so to speak. And 308 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 5: so if people pre order the book, the book comes 309 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 5: on April twenty nine, but part of our pre order 310 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 5: campaign is an email sequence. If someone goes to my 311 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 5: website and orders the book, they will get added to 312 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 5: an email sequence where I have recorded seven goofy videos. 313 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 5: My twelve year old daughter edited them for me, so 314 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 5: be prepared for goofiness. I mean, she did a good job, 315 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 5: but it looks like it's just cute, you know. And 316 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 5: we start with easy things. I am walking through a house, 317 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 5: a maximalist house. I mean, you're going to see a 318 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 5: basket of laundry in the hallway. In these videos, it's 319 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 5: not perfect by any stretching the imagination. I'm trying to 320 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 5: let people know that it doesn't have to be that 321 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 5: it is totally. I think, you know, this day and age, 322 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 5: with so much social media and so much perfection, I 323 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 5: think theory. I think that especially with the rise of AI, 324 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 5: we're going to be looking for signs from influencers that say, Okay, 325 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 5: this person's real. I really think that those are going 326 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 5: to become hallmarks. The fact that I totally have a 327 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 5: ZiT on the side of my nose right now, a. 328 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 2: Laundry in the hallway, yeah, walking through, and we're just 329 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: doing the easiest stuff. 330 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: I mean, that's what it sounds like right wherever you. 331 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 5: Guys start, Yes, I was a rabbit trailing there. Yes, 332 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 5: if you're getting there yet, yes, the easiest thing first. 333 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 5: And I want to show people that that it is 334 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 5: okay to have a basket of laundry in your home 335 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 5: and still talk about organization and decoration. I would not 336 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 5: consider myself to be an organization expert. Now, my friends 337 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 5: do call me when they need help cleaning out a closet, 338 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 5: and I'll go and ask them questions and help them 339 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 5: get that stuff done. But I also kind of need 340 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 5: someone to come do that for me sometimes too. So, yeah, 341 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 5: it's so intimidating to think that someone's gonna think I'm 342 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 5: the next Marie Condo or something. 343 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 4: Definitely not. 344 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: Well. I mean, you talk a little bit about it. 345 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 2: I guess the way you put is more like gentle decluttering, right, Like, 346 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 2: we're doing a gentle approach to this, And you actually 347 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: have a couple of tips for making it more gentle, like, 348 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 2: for instance, setting a time limit for any given day 349 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 2: of how much temporal space you are devoting to organizing 350 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 2: your home. What if you can talk a little bit 351 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 2: about those ways of making it a little gentler on ourselves. 352 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 5: Yes, So I learned that I did hire someone at 353 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 5: one point in time to help me organize, and we 354 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 5: were in my garage going through files. She was a 355 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 5: nurse part time. She was kind of doing this organization 356 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 5: thing on the side, and I was younger. I was 357 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 5: this is probably twenty years ago. I got frustrated, and 358 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 5: she wisely recognized she said, Okay, you're just tired, like 359 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 5: your brain has made a bunch of decisions. We're done 360 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 5: for the day. That story stuck with me because I 361 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 5: learned something in that moment, this idea that if I 362 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 5: push myself too hard, I'm going to burn out but 363 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 5: in an afternoon, and I need to stop and rest 364 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 5: and renew and find that balance. I think one of 365 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 5: the things that the book talks about is the tension, 366 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 5: like we live in an era of surplus, surplus of everything. 367 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 5: There's marketing messages and all this stuff constantly coming at us, 368 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 5: and we need to create space, both mental, emotional and 369 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 5: physical space to let our eyes rest and our brains rest. 370 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 5: But a little bit at a time, you know, you 371 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 5: have to start somewhere. How do you eat an elephant? 372 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 5: And by this time, yeah. 373 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: We're eating elephants. No frogs today, though, that's right, but 374 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: oh good one. 375 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, so no, a little bit at a time, 376 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 2: you know, like one drawer at a time or one 377 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: shelf at a time, and eventually it all adds up, 378 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: which is interesting because I think a lot of people 379 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: have trouble sticking with things. And that was another topic, 380 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, addressed through this lens of perhaps 381 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 2: ADHD or other things. And sometimes people are like, you know, 382 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 2: I'm disorganized. They need a system. I need a new system, 383 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 2: and then tomorrow they need another system. And a week later, 384 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: it's going to be a third system. And you know, 385 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 2: whereas sometimes the problem is like, no, you just need 386 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 2: to finish whatever you started. Like whatever system is fine 387 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: as long as you see it through to the end. 388 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: And what I loved is you actually had a chart 389 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 2: figuring out which flavor of chaos we were dealing with. 390 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 2: Is this something that is from personal experience? 391 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 5: I take it, yes, one hundred percent. I mean, as 392 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 5: a creative, my world is full of half finished projects. 393 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 5: I am sitting here looking at a painting that's halfway done. 394 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 5: I mean, and there's nothing wrong with that, But I 395 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 5: think that I've also discovered that that finishing things creates momentum. 396 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,959 Speaker 5: That's part of the dopamine hack, is finishing things creates momentum. 397 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so maybe so we try finishing a few 398 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: things and then see if we still need a new system. 399 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 4: Yeah. 400 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: You also talk a little bit about a lot of 401 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 2: people after we've organized and we're going to start decorating, 402 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 2: I guess as the second step in the book title process. 403 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, A lot of people don't know their style. 404 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 2: And I think people who are very creative or who 405 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: are oriented toward creating beautiful spaces. Trying that a little 406 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 2: hard to believe, and people don't know where to start. 407 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: And what I love is you actually gave people like 408 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 2: a list of like five things you could buy as 409 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 2: a basic styles starter and then figure it out from 410 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 2: there to the idea of a basic couch. Right. 411 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, So I love the design part of thinking. 412 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 5: I mean, I think that's that's why I wrote the book. 413 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 5: I want people to have like this access to these 414 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 5: great design tips and these things that you can do 415 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 5: that add so much beauty to the minutia that ordinary, 416 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 5: even half finished projects are beautiful in their own right. 417 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 5: That starter style was It's just something that came to 418 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 5: my mind as I called through pictures and think about design. 419 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 5: And I actually got a lot of these tips from 420 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 5: a friend of mine, an interior designer named Holly Mathis. 421 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 4: I talked about her in the book. 422 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 5: She's a dear friend and she has a talented eye, 423 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 5: and she was again helping me. We were just talking 424 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 5: back and forth about how stuff and she's like, well, 425 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 5: you need a white flip covered sofa. I mean, that's 426 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 5: just it, like just start there. And she recommended Ikea. 427 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 5: Now I actually recommend a different sofa in the book 428 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 5: rather than Ikea, but for completely different reasons. I've learned 429 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 5: that the back cushions on sofas floped down, especially with children, 430 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 5: and so in the book, I say, you need a 431 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 5: sofa with tight back, no crack by like one. Anyway, 432 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 5: there is a perfect sofa out there. And then she 433 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 5: taught me, you know a lot of designers say pick 434 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 5: the rug first, but she said, go with a neutral rug, 435 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 5: like go with the sisile or a seagrass rug. And 436 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 5: then if you find cute little antique wool rugs, you 437 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 5: can layer those on top of that rug. And that's 438 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 5: a lot less expensive than going and buying a huge 439 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 5: wool oriental rug from Pottery Born or whatever. And there 440 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 5: are a few more tips for the starter style in there, 441 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 5: and I really do love it when for a while 442 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 5: on Instagram people were sending me pictures of their rooms 443 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 5: and I was taking my iPad and drawing on top 444 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 5: of them and showing them. 445 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 4: What they could do. 446 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 5: And there are so many little things that people can 447 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 5: do that elevate and what I don't know and what 448 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 5: I wonder and what I hope the conversation around this 449 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 5: book leads to is there's a certain I think education 450 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 5: of the eye that happens when you start to notice 451 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 5: these things and then when you choose to go buy 452 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 5: the sofa or use that strategy for decorating. 453 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 4: I also talk a lot about lighting in the book. 454 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 5: How is that changing things in a very subtle the 455 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 5: ordinary can become sacred kind of way. 456 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 4: That's what beauty does for me. 457 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it'll be interesting to hear what other people 458 00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 5: have to say about that. 459 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 2: Too, particularly when you start with neutrals in for the 460 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 2: basic big stuff. Then you could put in a lot 461 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 2: of personality with smaller and perhaps more inexpensive items. So 462 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 2: that's throw pillows or antiques or something interesting to put 463 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: on the wall. Yes, you actually recommend, like shopping your 464 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 2: own house. I'm really curious if you've had something like 465 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 2: you've completely repurposed from one space to another that you 466 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: felt like, oh, yeah, that was a big win. 467 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 5: Oh I one hundred percent. Let me think I am 468 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 5: constantly moving stuff around. I actually have an antique booth, 469 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 5: and so things get shuffled back and forth quite frequently 470 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 5: between the hanging hanging on the wall behind me was 471 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 5: at the shop and it hadn't sold, and I didn't 472 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 5: have anything hanging over my bed, and I thought, oh, 473 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 5: I'll just hang that up there. So constantly shuffling things, 474 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 5: I'm trying to think if there's a. 475 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 4: One thing, one. 476 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 5: Very repurpose space. We have a long, skinny room behind 477 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 5: our kitchen. We call it the pantry, but it's a 478 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 5: really big pantry for a pantry. We were going to 479 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 5: have custom cabinet try put in there when we moved in. 480 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 5: We moved in during twenty twenty, but we ended up 481 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 5: putting in a septic tank instead. 482 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: Not fun, not fun, but necessary, yeah, very and so 483 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: the custom cabinet tree stalled out. 484 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 5: So that room has never been finished, but little by 485 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 5: little we have cobbled together different pieces. So somebody on 486 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 5: Facebook Marketplace was giving away an entertainment center, you know 487 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 5: those old big wall unit ones that nobody uses anymore. 488 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, I will take that. It was 489 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 4: like in three pieces. 490 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 5: We put one piece here, one piece here, and there's 491 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 5: a metal wire. It's organized. There is a spot for everything, 492 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 5: including the kids' shoes. They drop them right there when 493 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 5: they walk in the door. There's a cabinet for them. 494 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 5: Why they there's a cabinet. And then I actually the 495 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 5: other day. I just I bought a shelf off Tu 496 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 5: whatever it is. It's in the garage. I walked past 497 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 5: it yesterday and looked down. I thought, why did I 498 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 5: put a shelf there? There are no shoes on that shelf. 499 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 5: But anyway, you try and try, and so yeah, our 500 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 5: whole pantry has been a situation of repurposed and if 501 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 5: I find something else that works better, I'll shuffle it out, 502 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 5: re sell those pieces on Facebook, marketplace, things like that. 503 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 4: One thing that never fails me is. 504 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 5: And I picked up on this, I think by looking 505 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 5: at people's Instagram photos, I like things, and I think 506 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 5: we all like things that aren't plastic. I think we 507 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 5: are drawn to natural wood. I mean, it could be 508 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 5: pain and wood, but it's wood. It's just it's not 509 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 5: for Mica, you know, it's not. And so that's another 510 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 5: thing that I've noticed that gives things an enduring and 511 00:27:53,440 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 5: repurposable value is if they're glass or organic in a sense. 512 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 5: And those things actually sort of make up the basis 513 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 5: of what I call starter style. This idea of somebody 514 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 5: was actually a friend of mine that was a photographer 515 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 5: was photographing my kitchen one day and she was like, 516 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 5: how is your kitchen so photographable? 517 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 4: Like you didn't do anything to it? 518 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 5: And I just said, there's no plastic in it, Like 519 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 5: everything that's on the counter is glass, or like a 520 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 5: sitting in a metal tray, or there's no plastic. Yeah, anyway, 521 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 5: that's an interesting thought for listeners. 522 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 2: All right, Well, we're going to take one more quick 523 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 2: ad break and then I will be back with more 524 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: from Whitney English. Well, I am back talking with Whitney English, 525 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 2: who is the author of the new book Organized First, 526 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: Decorate Second. But you've also had the whole business of 527 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: selling planners and things along those lines, like notepads to 528 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: help you organize your life. 529 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about. 530 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: Like when you're coming up with planner concepts and all that, 531 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 2: what are you thinking about, I mean, designing a planner. 532 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: What is it really supposed to do for people that 533 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: you need to get at in the design? 534 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 5: So I created a planner called day Designer. Since sold 535 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 5: that company, don't own it anymore, and then went out. 536 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 5: It was really fun. We got it into Target. The 537 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,719 Speaker 5: company that licensed it for Target actually ended up purchasing it. 538 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 5: I still work with them, still do some designs for 539 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 5: them nowadays had a three year contract with them. When 540 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 5: the non compete was up. After my consulting contract was over, 541 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 5: I thought, you know what, I know how to make planners. 542 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 5: I'll just make a planner again. I'll make a few 543 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 5: refinements and adjustments. I think one of the interesting things 544 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 5: about making a planner was that I like things to evolve. 545 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 5: That when you build a customer base that's used having 546 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 5: things one way, they don't like things to evolve. So 547 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 5: starting another planner company felt like an opportunity to let 548 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 5: the product evolve. And we're actually not going to be 549 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 5: making planners anymore. I am licensing with different partners and 550 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 5: still working in that space. But when I create a 551 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 5: day designer, I used a wire rings notebook like just 552 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 5: that student would use in college or high school or whatever. 553 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 5: And I used pretty much a page a day. I mean, 554 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 5: it was kind of like I would write down, this 555 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 5: is my schedule, this is my to do list. It 556 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 5: wasn't necessarily formalized like that. And I had always wanted 557 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 5: to create a planner, and I work in all the 558 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 5: Adobe Suitet products, So I laid something out in design 559 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 5: and was just playing around with it. One thing led 560 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 5: to another on a short story because the development of 561 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 5: Datasigner happened over probably the course of three years. 562 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 4: At first it. 563 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 5: Was a weekly planner, and then I started realizing there 564 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 5: were a ton of weekly planners on the market, and 565 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 5: I really started thinking, I'm a very analytical creative. I 566 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 5: can pick something apart figure out why it doesn't work. 567 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 5: But I was standing in staples and I realized that 568 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 5: what I needed was a daily planner. That's how I 569 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 5: was using my viral notebook. And so middle of the 570 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 5: night I was pregnant, went home, drew this thing out, 571 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 5: took it in the next day to my production manager 572 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 5: Anna and said, Okay, I need you to print this. 573 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 4: And she did some. 574 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 5: Amazing math and came back and said, if I print this, 575 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 5: people are going to be carrying around a phone book. 576 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 5: Whitney like, you're going to have to take some stuff 577 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 5: out of it. And I mean it was a lot 578 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 5: of math. We were like, okay, so it can't be weekly. 579 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 5: We have to We wanted the paper to be a 580 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 5: certain quality. We actually reverse engineered this. I mean, it's 581 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 5: not just like sitting down and drawing gridlines on paper. 582 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 5: That's the short version. The long version is we sourced 583 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 5: covers in the United States. We sourced binding in the 584 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 5: United States. We handmade those puppies for a solid year 585 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 5: before we started producing in China. So it's actually interesting, 586 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 5: especially with tariffs and stuff. Now I've been thinking about this. 587 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 5: I'll just put this out there. But if anybody wants 588 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 5: to make a planner and is trying to figure out 589 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 5: how to make in the United States, I can tell 590 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 5: you how to do that pro tip, right, so reach 591 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 5: out or whatever. 592 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. 593 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: Such a challenge. 594 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 2: No, I mean to have the good paper, but like, yeah, 595 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 2: the thing people have with dailyes is, of course there's 596 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty five days in a year exactly, 597 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 2: which is a lot of paper, right, it. 598 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: Is, it is. 599 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 5: And so we ended up doing a combined weekend page. Yeah, 600 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 5: and then we I realize now, in hindsight, if it 601 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 5: had been a weekly and a daily together, it would 602 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 5: have been too much. It really would have been too much. 603 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 5: I talk a little bit about this in the book too. 604 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 5: Different seasons call for different systems. There are times in 605 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 5: life when I need a daily promoting The book right 606 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 5: now is one of them that I am filling a 607 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 5: page to day. There are times when I need a 608 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 5: weekly spread and I just need to look at my 609 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 5: week and see the three things that I have to 610 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 5: do every day and mark those off. So I actually 611 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 5: still have one planner idea that I've never executed on 612 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 5: that I would love to execute on. I was thinking 613 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 5: about this yesterday. I need to There's a few companies 614 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 5: that I just need to reach out and be like, 615 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 5: let's do this. 616 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 4: Come on, we just need it. 617 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: No, it's doing it. What's the whole of the market. 618 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: I'm very curious just kind of. 619 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 5: A weekly that I've never we've done. We still have 620 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 5: a little bit of inventory on ours. People can still 621 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 5: order them. We have dailies, and then we have a 622 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 5: format called a week on one page, which is a 623 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 5: fun format. It just it hasn't been sustainable. I'm really 624 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 5: proud of the product that week on one page format. 625 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 4: Anyway. 626 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 5: We did some really neat stuff with it where people 627 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 5: could reuse the outer spine and there's just some cool features. 628 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 5: But when you have to order fifteen hundred and you're 629 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 5: only selling like two hundred on launch day, it just 630 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 5: doesn't work to have a dated product that I mean, 631 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 5: it's been pretty sad to throw away all that. 632 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, I notice that you switch to an undated one 633 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 2: yet probably that you could keep selling at least for 634 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 2: a few years. And in terms of inventory management, yeah, no, 635 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 2: it's a rough business. I've been fascinated watching it. My 636 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 2: co host has a particular interest in planners, so oh 637 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: really know it's the whole market, but yeah, yeah, we 638 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 2: always love to see what people do to make themselves 639 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 2: stand out. 640 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: So wait, we always end with a love of the week. 641 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 2: I can go first to I need give you a 642 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 2: second to think about it, so I'm going to say 643 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 2: online scheduling, like for anything, like for doctor appointments, for haircuts, 644 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 2: for you know, if you can choose when the cable 645 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 2: guy is coming, like anything where you don't have to 646 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 2: go through a phone system, like you can actually just 647 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 2: sit there like while you're waiting in line somewhere else, 648 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 2: or do it at two am if you need to. 649 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: It's just so much better. I wish everywhere had online scheduling. 650 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: What's your love of the week. 651 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 4: I'm gonna go yesterday. 652 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 5: I just really wanted a Slurpee from seven to eleven 653 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 5: mm hm, and I wanted doctor pepper and cherry, you know, 654 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 5: mixed together that the Doctor Pepper the cherry route still 655 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 5: not frozen all the way so we can have them. 656 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 5: So we might have to try again today, might. 657 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: Have to try again. Yeah, that is a good combination. 658 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 2: That's a you know, it's always sad when wait, we 659 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 2: have wah wah around here. My kids go in and 660 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 2: try and get their version of it, and like you know, 661 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 2: if the red or the blue is like not in 662 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 2: the proper texture, it's just a sad moment, not. 663 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 4: Ready to go. 664 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:27,399 Speaker 1: It's not ready to go. 665 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to. 666 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 2: Go around to different wallwas but yeah, Well, Whitney, thank 667 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 2: you so much for joining us. 668 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: Where can people find. 669 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 5: You at my website Whitney English dot com, on Instagram 670 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 5: at Whitney English, and then more and more these days, 671 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 5: I am really loving substach and I am Whitney English 672 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,439 Speaker 5: over there as well. 673 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: Awesome, Well, Whitney, thank you so much for joining us. 674 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. 675 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: Well, that was great, so exciting to have Whitney English 676 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 2: on the show. I know Sarah and I have followed 677 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 2: her career for a long time and we're fascinated to 678 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 2: see what she's up to these days. So today's question, 679 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 2: as we are coming into summer. We have somebody asking 680 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 2: bathing suit ideas help Sarah. 681 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 3: Yes, a perennial challenge for all of us. I think 682 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 3: I will share a few of my favorite brands. I 683 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 3: really like Athleta. They're kind of like my go to 684 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 3: because they just have a ton of different cuts, including 685 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 3: my favorite, which is like a two piece like but 686 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 3: with shorts because you can then put a swim jacket 687 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 3: over that if you want to and be just totally 688 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 3: covered up, if you're like chasing k it not that 689 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 3: you have to be, but if you want to be 690 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 3: you just don't feel like having your body beyond display 691 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 3: at like a kid's birthday party, it's just great. 692 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: You're in like a workout outfit. 693 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 3: You're good, and then if you want to show a 694 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 3: little bit more, you take the jacket off, like whatever. 695 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 3: Like I just think it's a nice happy medium and 696 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 3: there's some like really different forgiving cuts there. I also 697 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,479 Speaker 3: did some browsing and Summersault is a brand I've ordered 698 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 3: from before, and I saw this one piece that has 699 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 3: like to me, it looked very well engineered, like there 700 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 3: was a cut out, but it was like right in 701 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 3: the right place, And I think that's a really popular 702 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 3: brand for people kind of in their thirties, forties and beyond. 703 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 3: And then another brand that I've heard a lot of 704 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 3: about is Andy. One of my favorite fashion bloggers talks 705 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 3: about this brand and I love that. When I went 706 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 3: on their website, they actually have a category called chasing 707 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 3: a Toddler and there are all these one pieces that 708 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 3: are supposed to like stay in place. So I'm like, 709 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 3: I'm here for that category. 710 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: That is good. 711 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 3: And then my final note is that if you want 712 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 3: to go two piece, but you're like, I don't want 713 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 3: to show that much, there's a lot of high waisted 714 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 3: stuff out there these days, and that can be a 715 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 3: lot easier to pull off. I think a lot of 716 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,720 Speaker 3: people are comfortable showing their skin like above their waist 717 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 3: kind of versus like something really low slung. 718 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: That's a look I'm going for these days. 719 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 2: Yes, or too much flesh on the bottom of it, 720 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 2: or many things that just don't need to be seen. 721 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 2: So I wear the I have no great advice in this. 722 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 2: I wear these speedo they're kind of rooshed rushed. 723 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: How are you say that? Are U? 724 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 2: C h eed at one pieces? And I am sure 725 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 2: they are not the world's most stylish things. That they're 726 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 2: a little stylish than your average more stylish than your 727 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 2: average Speedo because I mean it's not for racing competitions. 728 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 1: I think it's just more for wearing. But they don't move. 729 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 2: I mean they stay put wide enough straps that they 730 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 2: don't go anywhere, and the leg holes are at a 731 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 2: place that is not going to reveal anything that you 732 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 2: do not wish to reveal, so you might look into those. 733 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,799 Speaker 3: Speedo is an iconic classics swimbler brands, So I think, yeah, 734 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 3: can't really go wrong, can't. 735 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 2: Go wrong, can't go wrong? All right, Well, this has 736 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 2: been best of both worlds. I have been interviewing Whitney English. 737 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 2: We will be back next week with more on making 738 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 2: work and life fit together. 739 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. 740 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 741 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you. 742 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 743 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 2: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join 744 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 2: us next time for more on making work and life 745 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 2: work together.