1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business App. We're 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts. We have 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: breaking news here in Washington. The president has just issued 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: the first veto of his presidency. Here's Joe Biden in 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: a video just posted on Twitter. I just signed this 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: FETO because legislation passed by the Congress would put at 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: risk the retirement savings of individuals across the country. They 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: couldn't take any consideration investments said, We're didn't be impacted 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: by climate, impacted by overpaying executives. And that's why I 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: decided to be into it, to make sense, to veto 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: it a White House. Put the music on that for 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: what it's worth. You sitting at the Oval Office speaking 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: to the camera there with the tweet, I just vetoed 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: my first bill. What is it? Esg Anti ESG. The 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: bill would risk he writes, your retirement savings by making 18 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: it illegal to consider risk factors. Maga House Republicans don't 19 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: like your plan manager, he writes, should be able to 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: protect your hard earned savings. Whether Reb Marjorie Taylor Green 21 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: likes it or not. Okay, there we are rejecting legislation 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: that would here's how it would work. It would have 23 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: forwarded a rule allowing retirement portfolio managers to weigh ESG 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: into their investment decisions. This is not where I expected 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: to start with the congressman, but it's a pretty good 26 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: place to begin here, as he does sit on the 27 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: House Financial Services Committee. That would be Congressman Bill huzenga 28 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: Republican from Michigan who has been kind enough to drop 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: what he's doing in Orlando at the Republican Retreat to 30 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: join us. Congressman, thanks for being with us. To what 31 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: extent I won't ask you so much about the President 32 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: deciding to veto this because that probably shouldn't be a surprise. 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: But to what extent do you factor in ESG as 34 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: contributing to the stress we're seeing on banks this week? Yeah, 35 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: that's a good question, Joe. Good to be with you. 36 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: In addition to my work as chair of the Oversight, 37 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: Investigations and Accountability Subcommittee, I also am heading up a 38 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: EESG working group, and so we've we've been diving into 39 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: this a lot I had spent the last four years 40 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: as the ranking member and two years before that as 41 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: chair of the Capital Market Subcommittee, where we have oversight 42 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: of the sec and a lot of this has been 43 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: even though this particular bill was going through the Department 44 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: of Labor and the rulemaking that they were trying to 45 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: do there with pensions. Um, it's it's it's the same, 46 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: the same story, just different chapter. As we're seeing with 47 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: the Securities and Exchange Commission. The President's got it one 48 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty percent backwards. Uh. People's investment is more 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: at risk when you do this because it ignores materiality. Materiality, materiality, 50 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: materiality ought to be the watchword, and it's not with 51 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: this administration. Uh, it's it's actually, Uh, their their goal 52 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: and objective in this is to push a social agenda. 53 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: And that's that's that's the real problem that we're seeing 54 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: with this. Why shouldn't the manager of a retirement portfolio 55 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: be able to do whatever they want them well, because 56 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: it ought to be the fiduciary to get maximum return 57 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: for their for their clients. And what this is saying, 58 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: if it's what I would say is that if it's material, 59 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: if you are an energy company. It's very material if 60 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: you are making a widget that does not have that uh, 61 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: that scope to it, Um, why are we going to 62 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: force them all of what the Securities Exchange Commission is 63 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: trying to do with its climate rule, where you're looking 64 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: at scope three reporting, which is frankly impossible. So if 65 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: it's voluntary, that is one thing. Um, it's when the 66 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: cudgel of government comes in that turns it into a 67 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: very different thing. And as long as people have the 68 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: ability to choose and pick and choose, uh, that's that's 69 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: that's far better. But it does not seem that that's 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: where the administration wants to go. What happens at the 71 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: retreat and relate endo when this tweet went out, did 72 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: everyone's phone explode? We actually were dealing with at the 73 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: time when this was going on. We were dealing with 74 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: a discussion on debt and the deficit and what was 75 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: going to be happening with the debt ceiling, Lots of 76 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: discussions of how we are moving forward. Yesterday, we had 77 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: a tabletop exercise with a number of the foreign affairs 78 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: and security folks looking at all with unclassified information, would 79 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: what would happen if and when China was to invade Taiwan, 80 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: for example. So we're having a lot of practical exercises 81 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: and discussions about where we are going and moving forward 82 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: as we fulfilled our agenda and our pledge that we 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: had had with the American people when we came into 84 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: the majority. If I could bring it back to the 85 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: stress on the banking sector, here, what a weekend change 86 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: it has been the collapse of SVB and signature of 87 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: the rescue, if I can call it that still a 88 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: first republic and maybe not the for sale over the 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: weekend of credit suis Leon Cooperman ways in from Omega Advisors, 90 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: the legendary investors, speaking with Bloomberg today, he says this 91 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: pain was inevitable. Congressman, here's how he put it. We 92 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: have a self induced crisis by irresponsible fiscal monetary policy 93 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: the last decade. I did not forecast sil come bank issue, 94 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: but I didn't have a view that we were heading 95 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: to a crisis of some kind, and we were seeing 96 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: it and we're getting a predictable response by government. Congressman, 97 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 1: as chair of the Oversight an Investigation subcommittee on House Finance, 98 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,119 Speaker 1: will you lead hearings to find out what the heck 99 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: went wrong, how this actually started, in what happened. Yes, 100 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: and in fact, on the twenty ninth, our whole committee 101 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: is going to have the FED Supervisory Yes are in 102 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: and we're also going to have FDIC and we want 103 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: to expand that to Treasury, whether it's in that hearing 104 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: or in subsequent hearings. My subcommittee is working with both 105 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: the Financial Institution Subcommittee that's Anti Barr out of Kentucky. 106 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: We're working with cap Markets and Wagner's committee as we're 107 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: as we're looking forward. But yes, we are very much 108 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: dealing with this and he's right. The setup when when 109 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: we are seeing a massive rapid increase in UH in 110 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: UH interest rates like we've never seen before, at least 111 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: not in the modern history in modern era. UM, you're 112 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of banks getting caught with this and 113 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: in this situation and UH that I think is different 114 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: from SVB versus signature and what they were going through. 115 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: It appears that that is a very different situational trend 116 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: to kind of weave through that that mass as well 117 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: and trying to separate out you know, where are where's 118 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: the fault of the regulators? Uh, whether it be the 119 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: FED or maybe the California regulators and svb'sum circumstance. Where 120 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: was it malfeasans or or or just simple ignorance out 121 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: of bank boards that weren't experienced and should have known better. 122 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: You know, there's reports that SBB had a review by 123 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: Blackrock who raised red flags on this, a FED that's 124 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: been reported now has Ray had raised flags on this. 125 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: So what's the responsibility of those that are actually sitting 126 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: and running the bank having to do to respond to 127 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: those things? And so there's a lot to unpack in 128 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: various different issues. There sure is. As we spend time 129 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: with Representative Bill Huzengo is joining us from the Republican 130 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: Retreat in Florida. A new headline that you may have seen, Congressman, 131 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: that I'm reading here on the Bloomberg terminal, that Signature 132 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: bank through a fundraiser for your chair Patrick McHenry just 133 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 1: before it crumbled. As they bring us into this board 134 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: room on Fifth Avenue in New York days before, ten 135 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: days to be exact, before the bank collapsed. I know 136 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: that Congressman McHenry's campaign decided it will not process the 137 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: contributions from that event. But knowing that mckenry, who was 138 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: again chairing the Financial Services Committee, has enjoyed quite a 139 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: bit of love from signature employees more than one hundred 140 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: and eighty eight thousand dollars since twenty seventeen. Should that 141 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of fundraiser be happening for someone who's chairing a 142 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: related committee like that, well, as you point out, it 143 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: was before any of this came to light. Absolutely, I'm 144 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: pretty sure he had no idea because guess what, the 145 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: folks at the bank had no idea that this was 146 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: going to be happening. And you know, we've we've heard 147 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: some conflicting We've heard some conflicting things regarding Federal Home 148 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: Loan Bank and what the FDIC did stepping in or fed. 149 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: So lots of confusion about that. But we have to 150 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: be we have to be cognizant of the optics of this. 151 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: There is absolutely no doubt. But I can tell you this, 152 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: whether it's for Patrick speaking for him, I'm sure I'm 153 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: very confident in doing that or myself or any of 154 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: my other colleagues on the committee. If it's a fundraiser 155 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: or a check that somehow alters what we would do 156 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: and think is the right thing for the country or 157 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: for the system, then we shouldn't have this job. And 158 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: I can tell you that is not our motivation and 159 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: this at all. So send the money back. He'll make 160 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: that decision. But that makes sense, and apparently they did. 161 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: I do want to be clear about that. They are 162 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: not processing those contributions. But the relationship, to your point, 163 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: the optics are challenging here. Can I ask you about 164 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: the FDIC before? I'd love to ask you quickly as 165 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: well about this she trip to Russia. You you're on 166 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: too many committees, Congressman. Do you want to see FDIC 167 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: insurance doubled, suspended, altogether, unlimited? What's what's the answer to 168 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: what we've seen the last few days. Yeah, good to 169 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: be with you, Joe. I hope we can catch up 170 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: again later in the future. Son. That that is the 171 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: That is a crucial, crucial question that frankly, we're wrestling 172 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,119 Speaker 1: with right now. Do we do it? Is it appropriate 173 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: to do a temporary increase? Is it appropriate to do 174 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: a permanent increase? Should there be no increase at all 175 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: and just leave it where it is? I can tell 176 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: you that there's a lot of people frustrated, feeling like 177 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: there's a two tier system in place here. If you're 178 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: a community bank out in the Midwest and you're doing 179 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: your job, and you might be even a mid sized 180 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: regional or it might be a smaller community bank, suddenly 181 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: it feels like the system isn't working for you, it's 182 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: working for the politically connected potentially. You want to talk 183 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: about optics issues. There's a number of optics issues that 184 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: are problematic with SVB, for example. So I'm coming to 185 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: the conclusion for me personally, and this is not a 186 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: consensus from the committee yet or certainly from our leadership. 187 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm coming to the consensus that we may have to 188 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: look at a temporary increase of that or maybe even 189 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: fully guaranteeing all of those deposits for a temporary basis 190 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: while we sort through some of these things, so that 191 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: we can make sure that we're preserving the ability for 192 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: these banks who have not had any necessarily bad business decision. 193 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: But it's become a Twitter run and I'm not I'm 194 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: excluding SVB by it from that, because I think there 195 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: has been a number of bad business decisions that were 196 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: in management decisions that were made there. But we've got 197 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: to make sure that the system settles down in that 198 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: sound and that people have confidence in it, but we 199 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: do have to wrestle with and change up these very 200 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: difficult parameters that have been created by massive increases by 201 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve in interest rates that have bought a 202 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: number of people behind the behind the curve. I played 203 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: that remark from Leon Cooperman. He says, twenty five bibs 204 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: and done this week. Do you think the Fed needs 205 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: to stop hiking and see what happens? Give it some time. Well, 206 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: you know, we had we had a chair Powell in 207 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: front of our committee last week and I said to him, 208 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: I said, I feel badly for you. You're an impossible 209 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: situation because, tow to borrow the analogy, nobody had the 210 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: courage to take the punch bowl away at the party. 211 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: And you've got a group of people and I won't 212 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: mention any killer senators from Massachusetts wanting to throw another 213 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: bottle on one fifty one rum in the punch bowl 214 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: and keep the party going. And it's like, well, wait 215 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: a minute. You know, he's realizing he's had to pull back. 216 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: Many of us believed that that should have happened a 217 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: long time ago, and it would have been appropriate to 218 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: start doing those smaller increases much earlier, maybe we wouldn't 219 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: be in that situation, but that's water over the dam. 220 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: So the question is are you going to continue to 221 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: do that tightening that seems proper, and can you do 222 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: that with making sure that the banking system remains strong 223 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 1: and in balance. I suspect it's probably going to be 224 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: in other twenty five points versus what it might have been, 225 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: which was another fifty if not more, if we weren't 226 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: in this situation. Well, as I mentioned, a congressman, is 227 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: not just financial services. Taking your attention right now, you're 228 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: on a foreign affairs committee as well, And I just 229 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: wonder what you think the US, if any US response 230 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: should be to this meeting between President she and Vladimir Putin. 231 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: They rolled literally the red carpet for him today, he's 232 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: in Moscow for three days. What should we say about it? Yeah, well, 233 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin is clearly and obviously in need of allies 234 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: and friends, and he's got to be in there. He does. 235 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: He has a very big economic friend there, and we 236 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: need to be watching very closely as to what does 237 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: this mean from China's perspective and what are their actions 238 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: coming out of that. You know, it's very different if 239 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: they start supplying arms, for example, to Russia. It's different 240 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: if they are propping them up, and whether it's through 241 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: energy or other purchases that might be going on, you know, 242 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: So we'll see actions speak louder than words can. Diplomatic words, 243 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: those are important words, but we'll see what those actions are. 244 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: We have to be monitoring that very closely, so wait 245 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: to see what happens before we speak. It sounds like yeah, 246 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that is the prudent thing to do. 247 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: We certainly ought to make sure that China needs to 248 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: know that this is unaccepted the bowl if they do 249 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: cross some of those lines. But here's our problem with 250 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: this administration. Way too often, not only our adversaries, but 251 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: our allies have been confused about where we will go 252 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: and how strong we will be in that, and that's 253 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: not good for either. Well. Congressman, we took quite a 254 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: trip around the horn there. I thank you for answering 255 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: questions on so many different topics. Congressman built hunger with 256 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: us from the Republican retreat in Orlando. I'll tell you 257 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: that punch bowl. I bet it's a pretty big one. 258 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: Tonight in Moscow, we'll assemble the panel next, Rick and 259 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: Janie or ahead, This is Bloomberg. You're listening to The 260 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at 261 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg 262 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also 263 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York 264 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. But we 265 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: covered a lot of ground with the Congressman, and that's 266 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: the world that we're in right now. You're sort of 267 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: juggling four or five topics, four or five plates spinning 268 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: in the air at one time. Welcome to Sound on 269 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: the fastest show in Politics. As we assembled our panel 270 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: with Rick Davis and Genie Chanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors, bringing 271 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: us back to where we started, we just covered so 272 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: much in twenty minutes. I want to remind you that 273 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: the President, Joe Biden, has just issued the first veto 274 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: of his presidency because legislation passed by the Congress would 275 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: put at risk the retirement savings of individuals across the contract. 276 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: Not everyone's going to agree with the way that's framed 277 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: there from the President, but indeed, he just vetoed legislation 278 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: that would kill a rule allowing retirement portfolio managers to 279 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: weigh ESG into their investment decisions. Genie Chanzano, We've talked 280 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: a lot about ESG, and it's been part of the 281 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: conversation with this whole banking crisis, the stress on banks, 282 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: the decisions that were made, and I guess the President 283 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: has just made a pretty clear stand on this. This 284 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: is something that Republicans we're hoping to make a little 285 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: bit of a splash with. Was this worth his first veto? Yeah, 286 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: First of all, it's stunning that his first veto is 287 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: on ESG, something which most Americans probably had no idea 288 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: what it was, say six months ago or a year ago. 289 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: You know, you'd think it was going to be something 290 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: that we'd all heard about. People talk about maybe an 291 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: abortion bill or something along those lines, and here we 292 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: have ESG. So it's you know, a bit surprising from 293 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: that perspective. But he telegraphed that this was coming. We 294 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: knew it was, and I think the President is betting 295 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: that he is on the right side of this issue. 296 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: And it's something that you raised with the congressman, which 297 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: is this idea that portfolio managers should be able to 298 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: take into account whatever they want when they're making these decisions. 299 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: And now, once again you have Republicans on a very 300 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: strange side if you look back at traditional Republicanism. Now 301 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: they are trying to have the government step in and 302 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: say what they can and can't take into account when 303 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: they make these decisions. So, you know, I think Biden 304 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: feels like he's on the right side of this. He's 305 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: sort of shoring up what has been the traditional view 306 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: on Wall Street and he's betting that he will get 307 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: some playout if that and hence his first veto Good 308 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: politics here, Rick, what do you make of the decision? 309 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: You know, I mean, this is the ground that the 310 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: Republicans have chosen to fight on. I think it's tenuous ground. 311 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: I'd rather have them talking about issues that really affect 312 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: people's pocketbook right now, especially in the light of the 313 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: banking crisis that we're in. And so to make this 314 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: their first bill that they would send to the President 315 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 1: for veto, I thought was shooting in the wrong direction. 316 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, just like Jenny said, 317 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: the Democrats are going to be very happy to debate this. 318 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: This is at the center of their view is to 319 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: how to create a more efficient carbon economy, and they'll 320 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: love it every day that they can veto bills like 321 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: this coming off the weekend, Rick, I don't know if 322 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: your phone was blowing up. Of course, people who listen 323 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: to this broadcast and see you on Balance of Power 324 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: know that you're a partner at Stone Court Capital. Are 325 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: we feeling more confident or less confident than we were 326 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: at the end of last week? I think that the 327 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: fact that we haven't gotten a resolution to contagion and 328 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: whether or not there is other institutions both here and abroad, 329 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: I think we wake up over the weekend with some 330 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: sense of stability around the transaction between ubs and credit suites, 331 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: but with more warnings that there are other problems in 332 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: Europe that could present themselves. So I certainly think from 333 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: the industry point of view that I've been learning from 334 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: talking to bankers and others, that people are sort of 335 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: treading on eggshells right now, just in hopes that this 336 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: remedial effort by the regular rators has will result in 337 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: some stability. Boy, I don't know, Jeanie. I mean, you 338 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: heard me ask the congressman about FDIC insurance. Shouldn't we 339 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: be handling these like, now, what's everybody waiting for? We're 340 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: going to have a big debate for a couple of 341 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: months where we watch other banks collapse. Yeah, I mean, 342 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: you'd hope that Congress that the government would step in 343 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: and address this. Now. I agree with Rick. I think 344 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 1: there were some signs that, you know, things are stable. 345 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: But I think a lot of it is going to 346 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: hinge on what Powell decides to do in the next 347 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: forty eight hours. Because of course, I think either way 348 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: it is going to be a sign. If he doesn't 349 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: raise interest rates, I think it's going to be a 350 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: sign that they really feel at least people will take 351 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: it as a sign that they really feel there's instability 352 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: out there, and so it's taking a you know, inflation 353 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: is taking a backseat, and you can look at it 354 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: the other way. So I think a lot of that 355 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: is going to depend on what they do. I have 356 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: to say I was pretty stunned, but I think it's 357 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: important to underscore Bernie Sanders saying that svb CEO is 358 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: on the Regional fedboard. That is something that, like the 359 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: FDIC issue, Congress should address asap. There's no reason that 360 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: they shouldn't end this conflict of interest of this kind. 361 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: If that's what we're seeing is creating this instability in 362 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: these banks. So there are steps Congress can take, But 363 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: the longer this goes on, the more people are going 364 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: to feel like they can't turn to Congress to take action. 365 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: There's so much I want to ask you about it. I 366 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to run out of time here, And 367 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: of course I've got an eye on what's happening today 368 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: in Moscow. Enter Presidency start of a three day visit 369 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: the full Treatment at the airport, Vladimir Putin saying that 370 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: Russia is now ready to discuss China's initiative for ending 371 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: the conflicts in Ukraine. As part of this three day visit, 372 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: he will talk about China's blueprint for Ukraine, remembering that 373 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: they offered some sort of idea to broker peace, but 374 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't play very well if you happen to be Ukraine. Rick. 375 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: We talked about this in advance of the visit. I'm 376 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: sure the administration, and by that I also mean the 377 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: Pentagon is watching this very closely. What do they do 378 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: about it? Yeah? First of all, I think that's the key, right, 379 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: This is being watched not just by our Pentagon in 380 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: the White House, but all defense departments and democracies around 381 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: the world because this represents the other group, the contrast 382 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: to freedom, democracy, rule of law, and this is the 383 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: building of the coalition for the future attack against those 384 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: those Western forms of government. So this is a big 385 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: deal and so yes, watching it closely, and I think 386 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: we will be not hearing a lot of rhetoric coming 387 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: out of the West in regards to this until it's 388 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: over after Tuesday, because I think they want to see 389 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: in a vacuum whether these guys can actually pull off 390 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: some kind of day taunt between themselves where they come 391 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: out with something that is remotely their version of a 392 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: peace plan, because right now I don't think anybody takes 393 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: seriously the Chinese peace plan, and of course, you know, 394 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: not helped by Vladimir Putin taken a victory lap and 395 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: marry a Pole right before she shows up. So it 396 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: just makes the whole thing kind of hard to sell 397 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: if if you're on their side. And so let's let 398 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: the Western governments force them to sell it and see 399 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: what they can get. Genie, is anything short of a 400 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: weapons deal problematic for the US. Of course they're going 401 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: to talk about this crazy peace deal, but that's not 402 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: going anywhere. We know that that's right, and I think 403 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: the big question now is what is the product at 404 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: the end of this. Obviously, if it's lethal weapons, that 405 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: is something that we know will have to confront, the 406 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: West will have to confront. But there's other things that 407 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: we should be watching out for. We see now a 408 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: new China. China is no longer just an economic threat. 409 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: It is now a political threat. It is making itself 410 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: a negotiator in world politics. Look at the axis with Iran, 411 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, Russia, China. You know, we've seen that in 412 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: the last few weeks, as China broker that piece, we've 413 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: seen them active not only in the Middle East, but 414 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: in Ukraine now this week, Africa before that. So this 415 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: is a new sort of access of autocrats, if you will, 416 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: that the West has to confront. And that's why this 417 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: meeting between these two is so important to watch. And 418 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: what comes out of it is anybody's guess right now. 419 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: I doubt it will be lethal weapons, but if it is, 420 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: that is something that the US is going to have 421 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: to address with its NATO partners. She says he's confident 422 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: Putin will win the support of his people in next 423 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: year's presidential elections. It's headlines like this, I'm showing up 424 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: for a Rick, Yeah, exactly, Russian's thanks for the news, flesh. 425 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: Russia's been holding sham elections for a long time. Why 426 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: not hold another one? Right, We've got to talk about 427 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: Donald Trump here, and I'm going to allow a little 428 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: bit of time for this. I just you know, we've 429 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: heard from Ron to Santas, the governor of Florida. Now, 430 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: Donald Trump said over the weekend he expects to be 431 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: arrested on Tuesday. He's asking people to protest. This is 432 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: the storm meet Daniel's case. Ron de Santis, knowing that 433 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: the former president lives in Florida, was asked repeatedly, you're 434 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: gonna stop this. You're gonna do something about it. Listen 435 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: to the way to Santis has chosen to handle this clearly, 436 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: put some time into it. I don't know what goes 437 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: into paying hush money to a porn star to secure 438 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: silence over some type of alleged to fair I just 439 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: I can't speak to that. But what I can speak 440 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: to is that if you have a prosecutor who is 441 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: ignoring crimes happening every single day in his jurisdiction, and 442 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: he chooses to go back many, many years ago to 443 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: try to use something about porn star hush money payments. 444 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: You know, that's an example of pursuing a political agenda. 445 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: All right, So yeah, he really clearly sat down and thought, 446 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: knowing he'd be asked. Oh and by the way, he's 447 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: not gonna be getting involved. This is not his bag. 448 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,239 Speaker 1: But to roll out the lines on payments to a 449 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: porn star all part of a narrative today from the 450 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: Governor of Florida, because we're all rolling here, and this 451 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: is going to be a heck of a race if 452 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: they do, in fact run against each other. You're listening 453 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live 454 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, 455 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can 456 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 457 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. The 458 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: buffet politically abused to the end, and we could start 459 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: almost anywhere as we'd try to bring in Nick mulb Ay. 460 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 1: I'm in Washington, of course, with Kaylee Lines, who's been 461 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: at work since yesterday. I believe the special was actually 462 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: incredible last evening, and I learned a lot about this 463 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: UBS credit suee situation. It did not seem to help 464 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: to calm any when down though. In the conversations we've 465 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: had over the last hour, the concern, the lack of confidence, 466 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,479 Speaker 1: the concern that another piece may fall, seems to be 467 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: just as intense as it was on Friday. Kaylee, Yeah, 468 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: in First Republic front and center to that. Remember last week, 469 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: at the tail end of the week, we got the 470 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: news of an attempted i would say attempted rescue thirty 471 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: billion dollars in deposits coming from eleven larger banks that 472 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: did very little to stem the bleeding in the equity market. 473 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: The stock was down thirty three percent in the Friday session. 474 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: Once again looking at losses today after the second ratings 475 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: down grade in just about a week, basically SMP Global 476 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: Ratings saying that thirty billion dollars that's a short term solution. 477 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: That is not a long term solution to this bank's 478 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: funding challenges. They think it's going to be really hard 479 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: to keep attracting deposits. It does seem like we're getting 480 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: closer to an answer on FDIC insurance. I mean, what's 481 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: your gut on that they're just going to have to 482 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: insure everything for a period of time. It's a question 483 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: of how long that is right? Right? And it depends 484 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: on who you ask. I mean, you had the Midsize 485 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: Bank Association basically writing a letter to the FDIC over 486 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: the weekend saying what has happened now is that there 487 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: is only confidence in the largest banks, and in order 488 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: to restore confidence in the entire banking system, they've requested 489 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: you ensure all deposits, no matter the size, for the 490 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: next two years. Is that solution the right one? I 491 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: don't know, but it's definitely a conversation that's being had. 492 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: Can ted Lasso fix all of them? Should we tell 493 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: you know he's at the White House today? I say he? 494 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: The whole cast is yeah, and a great cast it is. 495 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: I think this is probably a problem that Ted Lasso 496 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: can't fix. But the list of those things problems ted 497 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: Lasso can't fix, it's probably a pretty short one, because 498 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: that show can turn around any bad day. I'm having personally, 499 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: I'm just let's walk in here. This is the White 500 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: House briefing room. They don't even know we're listening in, 501 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: but it's mostly full. And I understand you. He's the 502 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: cast is they're floating around the White House today. They're 503 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: going to actually have a public event talking about mental health. 504 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: Will they come into the briefing here? Uh? Nick mulveney 505 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: of course, spent quite a bit of time at the 506 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: White House as acting White House Chief of Staff following 507 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: his time as a congressman and uh OMB director, And 508 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: he's with us right now. Nick. What goes into a 509 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: decision like this to have you know, a TV personality, 510 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: to have a celeb join the press secretary at the podium? 511 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: What's about to happen here? Well, it's a circus, but 512 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: it's a great kind of circus. We'd love to have 513 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: them because we tended to get a lot more softball 514 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: questions when we know somebody somebody famous. So no one 515 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: wants to talk about a banking crisis with Ted Lasso 516 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: in the building. Be bad? Isn't that the truth? And 517 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: if they do, he'll he'll calm them all down somehow. Mick, 518 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: I'm here with Kaylee and we're trying to figure out. 519 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about a hundred different things here, 520 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: because that's just the kind of newsday that it is. 521 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: And if we if we have a Ted Lasso sitting, 522 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: we'll let you know. The wranglings over the weekend. A 523 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: second weekend of bank wrangling, in this case, two Swiss 524 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: banks involved, did not seem to really stop the fear 525 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: of contagion, even though we haven't really seen evidence of it. 526 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: This is an administration that's dealing with a real balancing 527 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: act when it comes to confidence. Is there anything else 528 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden or elements of the administration can do? Now, 529 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, Joe, I don't have any insight into the 530 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: into the banking industry anymore than anybody else does. In fact, 531 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: you probably have a hundred people on the show that 532 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: know more about that than I do. But I know 533 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: a little. You know about crisis communications, though, yeah, and 534 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: a little bit about Washington. And what I'm looking for 535 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: is what the seed does on Wednesday. I don't suppose 536 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: anybody's talking about a fifty basis point an increase, but 537 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: if that were to happen for sake of this discussion, 538 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: that that message is that the banking system is entirely sound. Okay, 539 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: if it's twenty five base as points what that means 540 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: as well, we think it's probably contained, but we're really 541 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: still considered about inflation. What really concerns me would be 542 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: a zero point increase on Wednesday, because what that means 543 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: is that even though I don't see where it is, 544 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: and you might not see where it is, I mean, 545 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: somebody has seen something that scares them to death. And 546 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: that's really what I'm looking for on Wednesday is where 547 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: is it between zero and twenty five. I'm hoping it's 548 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: twenty five because zero would be a giant red flag. Yeah, 549 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: and I'm sure the markets would take it that way. 550 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: It raises the question of just communication around this banking 551 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to say turmoil because crisis sounds like it 552 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: may be a slightly charge word. At least, that's not 553 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: one that maybe the FED or the Biden administration would 554 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,479 Speaker 1: want associated with what is going on. They have tried 555 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: to project a message of calm here. They keep reiterating 556 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: the financial system is sound, banks are stable. Do you 557 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: think their communication is working? Well, it's it's not outweighing 558 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: what everybody there's talk and then there's action, right, And 559 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: what's happening is that they're trying to cover up action 560 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: or in this case, in action with talk. And what 561 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: I mean by the is this is that they can 562 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: say all the things they want to try and calm 563 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: the markets, they can project all of this confidence, et cetera. 564 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: But what folks are actually looking at is what happened, 565 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: which is, Okay, there was a fairly substantial size bank 566 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: that had a duration risk on the books that was 567 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: stunningly sort of just there and large and should have 568 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: never been missed by a regulator. Right. So if the FDIC, 569 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: the FED in the occ all missed this at this bank, 570 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: what else might they have missed at other places that 571 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: we can't see. So that's that's why I think you're 572 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: not seeing this languid calm things down as to the 573 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: And we've had this discussion Joe, I think last week 574 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: about about the short term increase in the insurance rose 575 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: rate to the ff insurance that that would be an action, 576 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: but it also has an unintended consequence of possibly driving 577 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: more bank insolidation, which would create more turmoil in the market. 578 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: So look, they've got themselves in a pickle at the 579 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: fed fd fdic at the OCC because of what they did, 580 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: and I don't think same stuff by itself is going 581 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: to fix it. How much time is there to take action, though, Mick? 582 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: I mean, do we go through another week and another 583 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: crazy weekend, another attempted rescue, a first republic or another 584 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: sale here before we actually have lawmakers say, you know 585 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: what we put it? We put something together here that 586 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: might be an answer to this, or we have in 587 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: fact gotten the bottom of what happened. How many more 588 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: weeks can we endure? Well? The disappointing answer there is 589 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: it generally now. There's always important acceptions, but generally speaking, 590 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: Washington is reactive and not proactive, and it doesn't fix 591 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: things until after they are broken. I can't think of 592 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: I've been in DC about ten years now. I can't 593 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: think of any time that we actually took strong, proactive 594 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: steps to prevent stuff. We always are behind the curve 595 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: a little bit. So I don't see in this environment 596 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: of Washington, DC a politicization being what it is, with 597 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: discussions about arresting a former president and that getting a 598 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: lot of attention, a bipartisan sort of toumbaya on how 599 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: to he fix something that the regulators may have broken. Well, 600 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned a potential arrest of a former president, not 601 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: just any former president, your former boss, mister mulvaney. What 602 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,479 Speaker 1: do you have to say about what Trump said over 603 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: the weekend that he thinks he's getting arrested on Tuesday. Yeah. 604 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody thinks he's getting arrested on Tuesday. 605 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: I actually was reading about this over the weekend and 606 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: somebody asked the right question, which is, has anybody talked 607 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: about secret service? Yet? You don't just walk in and 608 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: arrest a former president, right, Well, it's never been done before, right, Yeah, 609 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: well he does, but he's tend to be surrounded by 610 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: guys with guns, So that would be a situation where 611 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: if it was going to happen, it would be telegraphed 612 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: well in advance. I think probably someone told Donald Trump 613 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: there was a chance he might be arrested on Tuesday, 614 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: and he ran with it. I thought a tweet zone 615 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: the weekend were irresponsible. He could have easily said peaceful 616 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: protest if we would be having his conversation. But I 617 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: don't think as a likelhood of him being arrested this week, 618 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: as if possible in the future, probably are the chargers bizarre? Yes, are. 619 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: But I don't think this is going to come to 620 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: a head this week, thankfully, because we have other things 621 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: to worry about. Yeah, we're going to talk to Michael 622 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: z Elden about this in advance or coming up next, 623 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: I should say, make but in advance of anything happening. 624 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 1: This is this is a massive fundraiser for Donald Trump, right, 625 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: and he's actually asking people to protest. What's that going 626 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: to look like if this transpires. Yeah, it's actually a 627 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: fundraising opportunity for both of them. I'm on an email 628 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: list from both Democrats and Republicans and everybody who's raising 629 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: money office over the weekend. Is to show you the 630 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: sad state of affairs. But really interesting, I have to 631 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of a former chiefest staff who's 632 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: now becomes sort of a critic of the former president. 633 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: So I'm neither you know here nor there. Let me 634 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: be fascinating. If he called for a protest and nobody 635 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: showed up, I think that would send a very strong 636 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: message over House, strong his control was over the party. 637 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: There's a saying in politics that you know, a leader 638 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: with no followers is just a guy taking a walk, 639 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: So I'm the response that I've seen online has been 640 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: much more tepid than I think people will realize. Even 641 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: folks who might have otherwise sort of come to his 642 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: you know, the patriot moat around Marlagle may have learned 643 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: a lesson on January sixth, which is that you may 644 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: end up going to jail and the President's not going 645 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: to protect you. But we already saw over the weekend 646 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: that other Republicans in Congress kind of rallied around him. 647 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 1: What do you think, how do you think the rest 648 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: of the party is viewing this, let alone the base? Well, 649 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: I think, but looking at in many ways the same 650 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: way I am, which is, as you know, critical, as 651 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: I've been to the president, many of us have been. 652 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: This is really bizarre, this action by the Manhattan DA 653 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: to to charge the president criminally on a misdemeanor tax charge, 654 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: possibly coupled with a campaign finance that really isn't against 655 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: the law, or at least isn't in statute. No one's 656 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: ever been convicted of this particular which is brew of 657 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: crimes before, so it's it is easy to make the 658 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: case of this is a political targeting of Donald Trump, 659 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: and I think that's what you're seeing from Republicans, even 660 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: those who've been critical of the president, like I am, 661 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: saying this is probably wrong. This is this is a stretch. 662 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: It's almost as if the DA was looking for an 663 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: excuse to charge the president was something and made up 664 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: something that was tenuous at best. I still get a 665 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: kick out of the fact that nobody cares about a 666 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: former president or back when he was president leader of 667 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: the free world, having an affair with a porn store. 668 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: We're totally fine with that, But what comes after it's crazy. 669 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: And you know that the idea as well about an extradition. 670 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: You've heard about this. I'm sure, Mick that this could 671 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: come down to Ronda Santis if the if Donald Trump 672 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: refuses to go to New York, what does the governor 673 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: of Florida do in that case? Yeah, I think there 674 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: was a there was the only thing that's close to this. 675 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: By the way, if you remember John Edwards, the senator 676 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: from North Carolina where I used to where I grew up, 677 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: and was vice president for Canada. John Kerry got charged 678 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: with some almost the same thing and walked because no 679 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: one could figure out it was really a crime, so 680 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: he didn't go to jail, as a famous quotation by 681 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: one of the lawyers saying, it's not against the law 682 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: to be a pig, you know, and hush money payments 683 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: are not against the law. So you may not like it, 684 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: but it's not the type of thing we throw people 685 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: with jail for. That's a pretty good answer. Ron de Santis, though, 686 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: is in some political risk over this. How does he 687 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: manage this to his benefit? Make you know? I think 688 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: Ron has done a nice job of just staying above 689 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: the fray at this point. In fact, I think he's 690 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: the only you know, potential Democrat excuse me, Republican primary 691 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: candidate who hasn't really taken a public position on this yet. 692 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: I think that's the right thing for him to do. 693 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: It's it's a tough job, there's no question. I'm sure 694 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: he hopes that the president actually gets arrested in another 695 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: state and not Florida. But yeah, it's it's a strange 696 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: political day when the former president might get elected in 697 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: a state that's governed by a guy who might run 698 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 1: against him in the next prime And I'm pretty sure 699 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: we haven't had that particular combination of fun stuff to 700 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 1: talk about in the radio a long time. Well, of 701 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: course there's the primary race for the Republican nomination. There's 702 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: also the man ultimately that they would end up running against. 703 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: In theory, we all are anticipating that President Biden is 704 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: going to run again, still hasn't announced. The longer he waits, 705 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: does that help the Republican Party or hurt them because 706 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: it gives a chance for even more entrance to enter 707 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: the field, and they're be in fighting. No, because the Republicans. 708 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: It gives the Democrats more trouble than anything else, because 709 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: the Republican from is Trump, right, because Trump is probably 710 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: going to win the Republican primary. I mean, I haven't 711 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: seen a scenario yet that really convinces me that he 712 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: doesn't win the Republican primary, because he's going to get 713 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: his thirty five or forty percent, and since some plurality 714 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: is enough to win in a multiperson race and he's 715 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: got a chance to be he's probably going to be 716 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: the Republican nominee. So that that sort of cast unless 717 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: something dramatic changes now. The Democrats, I think, are the 718 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: one who are ones who are suffering here, because if 719 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: you're the next generation of leaders, you should be out there, 720 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: you know, raising money, raising your profile, and so whattn't 721 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: they can't do that because they don't want to be 722 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: perceived as the folks that push you know, old Uncle 723 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: Joe out of office. So no, I think the Democrats 724 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: are trying to figure out where it is. I'm a 725 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: pendulum right now. You know, right now he's under runs reelection. 726 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: It could change in two weeks. But I think they're 727 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: scratching their heads right now over this, even more than 728 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: Republicans are. Mcgreat talk, Thanks as always for the insights. 729 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,959 Speaker 1: We do this every Monday with mc mulvaney, former acting 730 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: White House Chief of Staff, his business cards less, former 731 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: OMB director, former congressman. I'll stop there for now, and 732 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: he says it's not even going to happen this week 733 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: most likely. Well, that it runs against what the president, 734 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: former president himself has said, and of course we're all 735 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,720 Speaker 1: going to be on watch for it, just because President 736 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: former President Trump put that out there into the universe. 737 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: But I think the secret service point is a good one. 738 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean, this has never been done before, There is 739 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,359 Speaker 1: no precedent for this. This is a man surrounded, as 740 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: mister mulvaney said, by security at all times, so literally, 741 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: just the optics of it, Like, what kind of image 742 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: would we get if indeed it did happen. Is there 743 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: going to be a perp walk my finger? Pray? When 744 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: does he get a backdoor entrance? Nobody even sees him 745 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: coming or going. All of that stuff has yet to 746 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: be determined. We're going to talk with Michael Zelda about that. 747 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: By the way, they have arrived White House briefing room. 748 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:11,959 Speaker 1: Here the entire Hellocast Ted Lasso standing people are here today. 749 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: Yeah right, how about this? By the way, Jason sidekish sweater, 750 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,240 Speaker 1: no tie? Oh is that appropriate? Okay? Is there a mustache? 751 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,720 Speaker 1: We do well? No, we yeah, mustache and beard actually 752 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: a light on wolf in character a little bit. That's 753 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: very yeah, very much. So I don't have no neck 754 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: ties all right? Kaylee Lyons Joe matthew on sound On 755 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the sound On podcast. 756 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already an Apple, Spotify, 757 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: anywhere else. You get to the podcast and you can 758 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one 759 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,839 Speaker 1: d at Eastern tip Bloomberg dot com