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Speaker 1: Welcome a trilliance. I'm Joel Webber and Eric. Every January,

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Speaker 1: I stay here in New York words really cold, and

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Speaker 1: you get to go to a warm, sunny place called Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I bear. I never see the sun. I'm

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Speaker 1: always inside, nerding out. It's a whirlwind of an event.

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Speaker 1: So hence my voice. I feel fine, but my voice

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Speaker 1: is going because I was just talking so much, and

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Speaker 1: I'm a little worn out and spent between the panels

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Speaker 1: and the networking and the parties and but yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was great. Um, but there's no sun to be had,

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Speaker 1: at least for from my experience. I don't feel sorry

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Speaker 1: for you, and but I do feel stright for myself

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Speaker 1: because I've had to hear you talk about this so

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Speaker 1: many times. Listen, next year we should go and set

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Speaker 1: up a booth and just do the show. Why did

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Speaker 1: we do that this year? Yeah, we got a plan ahead.

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Speaker 1: We well do. I think we brought up in like

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Speaker 1: Descenter was just too late. I'm gonna do it. Got

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Speaker 1: a lot of good feedback. A lot of people up

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Speaker 1: and say, oh man, I love the podcast, said you

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Speaker 1: know it's um, it's come up. I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: half a dozen people come up and said that. So

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Speaker 1: that's good. But in addition to not wanting to hear

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Speaker 1: from you, we actually have new people who went to

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Speaker 1: the conference this year and they're going to come on

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Speaker 1: the show and talk to us about what it was

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Speaker 1: like to be a freshman there. Yeah, this might be

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Speaker 1: my tenth year, so I'm probably a little jaded. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the first year I went, I think it

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Speaker 1: was just me and Chris Condon. Then I went a

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Speaker 1: couple of years, I was the only person there from Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: and then data started joining the news and this year

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Speaker 1: our index team was there with like maybe ten people,

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Speaker 1: so there was probably twenty Bloomberg people at the event

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Speaker 1: all told. So it's definitely become like Fort Lauderdale Bureau. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's actually technically in Hollywood, and as you drive up,

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Speaker 1: there's a Hollywood Boulevard and I'm just like, it's just

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Speaker 1: not different, totally different. So joining us today on Trillions

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Speaker 1: first time for both Katie Greifeld, who's a reporter with

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News, as well as Claire Valentine, this time on

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Speaker 1: Trillian Inside Inside et f S Part three. Katie, Claire,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Trillions. What's your assessment should I actually go

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Speaker 1: there next year? Oh yeah. Even if you don't have

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Speaker 1: time to go to the beach, you can at least

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Speaker 1: look out on the water, so which is sort of

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Speaker 1: depressing through glass windows. Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's a

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Speaker 1: nice view, but there's a depressing element to it. You guys,

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Speaker 1: get out of outside at all or not much. I

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Speaker 1: did a little bit. I sat on the beach in

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Speaker 1: a lunch. Katie went for a run. I did go

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Speaker 1: for a run. It was at six thirty in the

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Speaker 1: morning though, that's when the five K fund run was held,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you could see the beach. It was just

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Speaker 1: dark and there's celebrity sort of. There was a celebrity,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Hall. Uh. If you don't know, he's big in

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Speaker 1: my world because I'm a runner. But he he was

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Speaker 1: a former big time runner marathon former big time runner

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Speaker 1: retired now, but you might know him because he ran

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Speaker 1: a sub two oh five marathon, which is which is

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Speaker 1: very fast at the ball some marathon, so that was

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Speaker 1: a big deal. There's some hills there and I think

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Speaker 1: he still holds the half marathon record for the US,

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Speaker 1: so he's a big deal. I didn't know he was

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Speaker 1: going to be there, so that woke me up and

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Speaker 1: James and my team was Jazz. He got a picture

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Speaker 1: with him. It was like he met Bob Dylan or something.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was like a major deal for him.

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Speaker 1: I never heard of the guy I run, but I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I'm not in the marathon circuit. But um that's also running.

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to video of that. I

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Speaker 1: think it'll be pretty boring for you, but I'll send

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Speaker 1: you one. Okay, alright, I'll do that for you. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So our stick with Inside ETF is that we give

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Speaker 1: you a recorder and you go talk to people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I'm talking to somebody and I feel like they

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Speaker 1: say something that's you know, kind of cool, representative of

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Speaker 1: a bigger theme, I'll just get forty seconds from them,

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Speaker 1: and when we can run through the clips, who's first,

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Speaker 1: first up? And I'm guessing you guys will agree with

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Speaker 1: me that active, non transparent or aunts was probably the

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Speaker 1: biggest topic. If there was a theme that was threaded

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Speaker 1: through a lot of this, which we've talked about a

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Speaker 1: few times on Trillions we have. We did a whole

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Speaker 1: show with Dan McCabe, who's the Presidian uh CEO, which

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Speaker 1: you should go back and listen if you want a

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Speaker 1: primer on what this is, because we think this is

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Speaker 1: a theme for the year, like this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: a huge one. Yeah, all these like fifteen trillion dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of active mutual funds are trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: a way to do the e t F and this

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Speaker 1: is a way to do it without showing their holdings

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Speaker 1: every day. So it's kind of like having their cake

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Speaker 1: and needed to the question is is their demand. So

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Speaker 1: the first guy we interviewed was Daniel Shapiro from Serule.

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Speaker 1: Now Cerule has done a study that basically found that

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Speaker 1: et F fishers like these things are gonna bomb, which

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Speaker 1: is I'm in that camp pretty much. Some other people

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Speaker 1: think they're going to be successful. But Daniel said he

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Speaker 1: saw some things that make him more optimistic, and so

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Speaker 1: I asked him about that. We gave them until so

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Speaker 1: more than five years out, five years, less than ten billion.

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Speaker 1: Half of their respondents in pessimistic. Why I think we

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Speaker 1: we ourselves highlighted a number of challenges in the products

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Speaker 1: would face. We thought that the as managers the conflicted

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Speaker 1: and offering their best products into this particular rapper, we

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Speaker 1: thought that they wouldn't want to launch the right products

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Speaker 1: right away. They might start with something smaller, and as

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Speaker 1: we've seen the new filings from Fidelity, from tyrold Price,

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Speaker 1: it seems that there's a lot of promise. They're willing

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Speaker 1: to let some of their best, some of their largest

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Speaker 1: offerings into the E t F rapper, which makes us

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Speaker 1: more optimistic. What he's basically saying is that we now

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Speaker 1: see the filings coming in for what of these mutual

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Speaker 1: funds funds they're going to actually try to convert into

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Speaker 1: this new structure. And he was saying that, like he thought,

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Speaker 1: maybe they'd take their mediocre or crappy funds and just

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Speaker 1: try to get something going with them on this, but

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Speaker 1: he found that some of the funds they're going to

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Speaker 1: launch were some of their better funds, not all of them,

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Speaker 1: and that gave him some hope. They're not only are

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Speaker 1: you new to inside E t F, you're new to

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Speaker 1: E t F S cross Asset reporter. Now what do

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Speaker 1: you what do you make of this a moment? Well, definitely,

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Speaker 1: everyone that I talked to agreed this was the theme

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Speaker 1: of the conference is what everyone's talking about. But I

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Speaker 1: get to talk to anyone but sides people trying to

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Speaker 1: issue these that really agreed they're going to take off.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of skepticism about are these

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Speaker 1: going to gather assets? And talking with Ryan Sullivan from

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Speaker 1: Brown Brother's Hairman, we both agreed people are just kind

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Speaker 1: of talking in circles at this point. We have to

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Speaker 1: wait until these launch and sort of see what happens. Katie,

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Speaker 1: what do you think, Well, it's interesting to that point

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Speaker 1: that perhaps people won't want to offer their best strategies

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Speaker 1: and an et f rapper. We were talking to UM

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Speaker 1: Greg Friedman at Fidelity and he said that the investors

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Speaker 1: are really rapper agnostic, you know it just they want

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Speaker 1: the best strategy, They want the best return that they

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Speaker 1: can get, you know, the best price. So that was

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting and to this broader debate. It was interesting.

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Speaker 1: On Greg Friedman's panel UM on Active Non Transparens on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: there was this sort of spar that broke out between

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Speaker 1: Fidelity and then Doug Jones from the New York Stock

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Speaker 1: Exchange over whether this would herald the death of a

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Speaker 1: mutual fund. But declares point, you know, we've heard from

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Speaker 1: a lot of optimistic issuers, but people are really looking

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Speaker 1: to see whether they hold water. Did the fight have

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Speaker 1: to get broken up? This is two people in suits

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Speaker 1: like talking, even a little spark. I mean, some of

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Speaker 1: these panels can be very boring people, but this is

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Speaker 1: actually I thought that was one of the better ones,

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Speaker 1: absolutely because they were taking subtle shots at each other.

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Speaker 1: Because they're all offering different rappers and trying to appeal.

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Speaker 1: They were all competitors, and we kept coming back to it.

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Speaker 1: The moderator did step in, but there was a point

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Speaker 1: there where it was just the two of them talking.

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Speaker 1: The bigger problem is even if you launch your best

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Speaker 1: fund like the Tiro blue Chip, so far it looks

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Speaker 1: like the price is gonna be fifty to sixty basis

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Speaker 1: points um. So that's I guess, a decent deal if

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Speaker 1: you're a mutual fund investor. But for eat F people,

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Speaker 1: I mean they want everything below twenty bits. To me,

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Speaker 1: that's the single biggest issue. And I guess we'll see

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Speaker 1: in large cape equity is where they're going to launch

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Speaker 1: the first ones, and that seems to be the area

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Speaker 1: that people want active The least active flows tend to

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Speaker 1: be a little stronger and fixed income and an international

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Speaker 1: and emerging markets where there's more opportunity small caps. So

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Speaker 1: um yeah, I know I'm interested, um, just like everybody else.

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Speaker 1: And um, as you know, Todd at Rosen Bluth and

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Speaker 1: I have another big bet, which is how much will

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Speaker 1: they have at the end of the year. Ten billion

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Speaker 1: is the over under. I have the under, and if

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Speaker 1: I win this time, I'm ordering Saki next. Next up,

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Speaker 1: we have former Congress and Barney Frank. So you do

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Speaker 1: sometimes get some celebrities here, hence Ryan Hall. But Barney

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Speaker 1: Frank wasn't there just to talk like hype people up

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Speaker 1: or just be a celebrity. He's there to Actually he's

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Speaker 1: on the board of a new l g B t

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Speaker 1: q UM index that will be an et F very soon.

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Speaker 1: So we asked him what he was being in. You

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Speaker 1: know why he was involved with us for many is

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Speaker 1: when I first kind of involved with gay lights in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, we won the defension. We were fighting

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Speaker 1: against bad things. We've reached a point now where for

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Speaker 1: millions of us to we have in much of the country,

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Speaker 1: we can start going after good things based on a sexuality.

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Speaker 1: That is, we're no longer trying to defend ourselves against bigotry.

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Speaker 1: In most cases, we want now to go forward in

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Speaker 1: Vanshall legitimate interest in a way that's constructive. And that's

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Speaker 1: and he can't now Before we dig into that, I

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Speaker 1: got a part two to this, which is Billy Bean,

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Speaker 1: who is a former professional baseball player who came out.

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Speaker 1: Billy Bean, No, it's actually saying I asked him. He's like,

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Speaker 1: it's very confusing. I know different. Billy Bean a player

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Speaker 1: he played on the Detroit Tigers, I believe, with Alan

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Speaker 1: trammell Um, and he was he actually had some cool

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Speaker 1: stories about playing with Tony Gwynn and least players I

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Speaker 1: used to baseball cars of anyway, different topic. He was

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Speaker 1: talking about being a major league baseball player and being

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Speaker 1: in the closet and then coming out and that's part

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Speaker 1: of what got him involved with this as well. And

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Speaker 1: it's a really heartfelt story. Here we go. And I

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Speaker 1: made the big leagues when I was twenty one, and

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Speaker 1: so you don't make the big leagues unless yere a

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Speaker 1: baseball player. And you know, there was no Internet, and

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I didn't quite understand my sexual orientation.

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Speaker 1: And I got married very young and and tried to

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Speaker 1: be everything to everyone. And as I got a little older,

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Speaker 1: and was into big leagues for a little bit. Um,

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Speaker 1: I started to become more self aware and and I

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Speaker 1: met somebody and I left my marriage and and that

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Speaker 1: person died, uh tragically, very young. Um, the night before

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Speaker 1: what was my last season in the big leagues. And

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Speaker 1: instead of talking to my family or my roommate was

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Speaker 1: Brad Osma's who's been a big league manager, played eighteen

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Speaker 1: years in big leagues. Um, it just seemed like from

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Speaker 1: the information that I had in my life that someone

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Speaker 1: like me didn't belong in baseball. And and I just

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Speaker 1: I just stopped playing and with no explanation for anybody,

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Speaker 1: didn't show up for spring training the next year, heavy right,

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Speaker 1: And so I was not expecting that. Yeah, no, look,

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Speaker 1: this is why I played both of those because there's this,

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Speaker 1: there's the Barney Frank who else has a real story

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Speaker 1: in this? But when you dig into these small e

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Speaker 1: t F s, there are some real interesting stories and

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Speaker 1: people who really care. So sometimes these small ets get

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Speaker 1: blown off. But even the Whiskey ETF had an interesting

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Speaker 1: story about this guy in Lexington, Kentucky. Um, and I

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Speaker 1: find that's where the passion is. What was Billy's et

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Speaker 1: F connection. So Barney's on that board, so is he,

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Speaker 1: and so is Martina and Evratalova. So this is an

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Speaker 1: index now, but it should be an ETF soon. It'll

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Speaker 1: be interesting if against traction, because there was one called

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Speaker 1: Pride pr I D but it didn't really take off,

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Speaker 1: although someone pushed back and said, you know, this was

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Speaker 1: UBS trying to sort of like co op this movement.

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Speaker 1: This is from the movement. One thing that I find

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Speaker 1: interesting about that is like probably two people who had

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Speaker 1: no idea about E T F and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden they end up in inside et F in Florida,

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Speaker 1: kind of like our guests. Uh, did you guys meet

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Speaker 1: anybody else like this? I did not, but I think

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Speaker 1: it really speaks to the idea of this field is

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Speaker 1: so crowded with E TF and how are you going

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Speaker 1: to stand out? And I wrote an article about this

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Speaker 1: in some of the ways that people are trying to

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Speaker 1: differentiate themselves, and I think it sort of combines both

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Speaker 1: like E. S G and kind of wanting to do

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Speaker 1: good but also wanted to compete with the big players,

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Speaker 1: and how do you do that you make yourself unique? Katie,

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Speaker 1: how much s G talk was there? There was so

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Speaker 1: much E s G talk. We've heard so much about

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Speaker 1: this in the past three weeks, and it was it

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Speaker 1: was interesting. You know, everyone says it's here to say,

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Speaker 1: everyone's excited about it, wants to get on board. Well

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, no, one knows how to define it.

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Speaker 1: And it almost feels like, you know, past the potato

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Speaker 1: because we've asked several people, several issuers, how are you

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Speaker 1: defining this? And they are really relying on third parties

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Speaker 1: at this point. So I'm not I just worried about

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Speaker 1: the investor. I worry this is like active mutual funds

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Speaker 1: Part two because, like Matt Hogan and the best new

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Speaker 1: ETF pundit SmackDown argued for s USL, which is the

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Speaker 1: I shares E s G, it's I think it might

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Speaker 1: be the largest E s G fund bar none. Guess

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Speaker 1: what's not not in it? Apple, Facebook, Netflix, Amazon, Berkshire,

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Speaker 1: JP Morgan. I mean, these are the leaders of their industries.

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Speaker 1: It's like a car without an engine, and maybe those

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Speaker 1: stocks will actually fall because of their E s G

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Speaker 1: in the future and this this thing outperforms, But I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Those are some heavy duty companies, You're not

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Speaker 1: there aren't in there and people are buying this and

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Speaker 1: not knowing that. I think they're going to be surprised

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Speaker 1: if they buy it. Know it fine, but I just

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Speaker 1: worry that they're going to be disappointed if it underperforms.

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Speaker 1: Electric cars don't have engines. That's true, there is a

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Speaker 1: metaphor there. Yeah, maybe that that's a good way to

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Speaker 1: sell it, but I wouldn't buy it. By the way,

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Speaker 1: when I write about this, I get them publicly people

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Speaker 1: that yeah, you're you know what about this and this,

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Speaker 1: But I'll get a lot of messages offline, like and

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Speaker 1: at the conference, I wrote this article about this, and

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Speaker 1: people were like, you're spot on. I can't say anything

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Speaker 1: to agree with you publicly, but I agree. I think

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Speaker 1: people um are sort of leaning towards this idea of

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Speaker 1: an E S G tilt instead of just a flat

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Speaker 1: out E s G. And people that I talked with

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Speaker 1: said that, you know, because there's a question of how

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Speaker 1: do you define it, you can sort of define it

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Speaker 1: in a way that's like E S G light almost,

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Speaker 1: and that might have more success that if If people

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Speaker 1: are going to use it as a like a five

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Speaker 1: percent allocation on top of their equities, that's fine. That

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Speaker 1: then it becomes some like a theme. But then are

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Speaker 1: you really cleaning up your portfolio because the rest of

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Speaker 1: your portfolio still owns those companies like ex On and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: So that to me, a lot of the says, I

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Speaker 1: just worry it's being sold, like the five dollar organic avocado.

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Speaker 1: It's being sold, so you feel like you're doing something,

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Speaker 1: but it's really you're kind of getting hosed a little. Well,

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Speaker 1: the question I asked a bunch of people at this

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Speaker 1: conference was whether this E S G enthusiasm is really

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Speaker 1: a bowl market phenomenon. You know, when everything is rallying,

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Speaker 1: you kind of have the luxury of being able to

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Speaker 1: invest along your values. But when we actually do hit

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Speaker 1: a downturn, if and when you know, are people going

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Speaker 1: to have that luxury of choice? And so far, you know,

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Speaker 1: no one wanted to disagree with the buzzword of the week,

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Speaker 1: but um, the point that Phil McIntosh at NASTACK said

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Speaker 1: was it's going to depend on whether the returns are

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Speaker 1: actually better in E S G. And there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of conflicting research on that. So it might rest

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Speaker 1: on that if you believe E s G is a

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Speaker 1: factor that we'll have to find alpha um. By all

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Speaker 1: means you can just drop a little on your portfolio.

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Speaker 1: But if you are looking to clean up your portfolio,

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Speaker 1: those are the people I worry about. Because you're gonna

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Speaker 1: sell your Vanguard five hundred for this, just be careful,

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Speaker 1: know what you're owning. UM. And I think that's a

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Speaker 1: big issue. And ms c I, the head of mbsc I,

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Speaker 1: came out recently and said if you don't something like,

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Speaker 1: if you don't do this, your you will dramatically underperform.

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Speaker 1: I find that to be very dangerous talk. I just

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Speaker 1: think that's irresponsible to be honest. UM. I think it's

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Speaker 1: just better to sort of like offer caveats here and

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Speaker 1: be honest about the proposition, because you don't want someone

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Speaker 1: to wake up and trail the market by and be like,

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Speaker 1: you know, why did I do this and get angry

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Speaker 1: about it? Who'd you talk to you next? So, while

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Speaker 1: I'm a skeptic, there's someone I think a little further

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Speaker 1: to the right of me, which is the MAGA guy.

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Speaker 1: There's an et F with the tigger Maga Hal Lambert.

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Speaker 1: It leans towards companies with that donate or have GOP

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Speaker 1: values or donate to GOP. I believe did a great

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Speaker 1: Brillions episode with him before. Yeah, we did a whole

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Speaker 1: episode with him and he's a really nice guy. He

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Speaker 1: was talking about Larry Fink's Climate letter and uh, he

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Speaker 1: offered some sort of like pushback on that, and here

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Speaker 1: he is like, my biggest problem with the s G

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Speaker 1: is that it's it's all just soft issues, so it's

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Speaker 1: very relative. There's no real hard evidence on anything, so

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Speaker 1: it's opinionated, and it's being driven by the U N

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Speaker 1: out of out of Europe, and now they're forcing US

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Speaker 1: companies to adopt policies and it's basically policies that they

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Speaker 1: can't get past legislatively by the left, and so they're

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Speaker 1: trying to basically front end that and go to the

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Speaker 1: corporations and force this on them. So if you look

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Speaker 1: at what like Bratt black Rock is doing, Larry Fink,

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Speaker 1: you know they have now come out and said everything

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Speaker 1: is gonna be sustainable in what they're doing. Well, you

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Speaker 1: know what, what does that due to clients that don't

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Speaker 1: have that same view. And by the way, if you

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Speaker 1: look at black Rock and you look at you know,

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Speaker 1: what they're doing with their own company. You know, black

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Speaker 1: Rock has jets, they have their own private jets and

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Speaker 1: and uh whatever, I'm fine with jets. The other thing

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Speaker 1: they're doing, though, is they're leasing those jets out when

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Speaker 1: they're not using them. So when you talk about global

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Speaker 1: warming and climate change and you're worried about all that,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna least jets out to make a few

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Speaker 1: extra thousand dollars to put carbon in the atmosphere, is

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Speaker 1: that really s G friendly or they really SG focused,

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Speaker 1: or they STUF doing it for marketing. Hey, no one

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Speaker 1: wants to say what he said, but there's some truth

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Speaker 1: to that, and there is a lot of hypocrisy and

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Speaker 1: it needs to be said. And I think you can

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Speaker 1: identify hypocrisy and still be for the movement to fight

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Speaker 1: climate change. Emitting carbon is emitting carbon. I think everybody

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Speaker 1: has to contribute. That's not unfair, is it. No? I

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Speaker 1: mean my take is that even if it is PR,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of better than nothing. It's a movement forward,

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Speaker 1: it's a step forward. And I agree I'm talking talking

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Speaker 1: about I just think the some of the pressure should

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Speaker 1: be punched up right now. I feel like it's all

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Speaker 1: about how are the people gonna like change? But what

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Speaker 1: about the elite who who just seemed to be the

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Speaker 1: biggest carbon emitter is out there. There's just not that

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Speaker 1: much pressure on them. It's weird. I didn't see one

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Speaker 1: Davos article that really focused on that. How is MAGAT

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Speaker 1: performed MAGAT and not having a good run. It's a

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Speaker 1: fifteen point one percent since launching and smps like thirty three,

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Speaker 1: so it's basically half now MAGGO I think leans towards

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Speaker 1: energy and industrial stock. Yeah, it's a sector tilt away

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Speaker 1: from a look. Mega to me is is the anti

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Speaker 1: E s G sector wise. You get more energy and

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Speaker 1: industrials and almost no tech. So if tech falls out

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Speaker 1: of BED, I a would say, if you think if

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Speaker 1: you're anti high beta and growth and tech and you

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Speaker 1: think those you know, the fang type names are going

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Speaker 1: to fall out of BED, mag is not a bad play,

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Speaker 1: even if you disagree. It's sort of like an anti tech,

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Speaker 1: energy industrial heavy kind of ETF. We asked Black Rock

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Speaker 1: about halse comments and it responded that it offsets travel

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Speaker 1: related emissions by retiring carbon credits and also reduced air

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Speaker 1: travel per employee. As of you're in okay, we have

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Speaker 1: some more names on your list. Who's next next is

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Speaker 1: Dan Draper from Investco. And I think another issue was,

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Speaker 1: you know, costed following everybody wants free trading. Fility just

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Speaker 1: announced fractional shares after announcing free trading. He was talking

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Speaker 1: a little bit about thinking about how asset managers are

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Speaker 1: going to evolve and change as headline expense ratio is

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Speaker 1: faull to almost nothing. Once we have a large platform,

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Speaker 1: can e T s be a source to bring clients

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Speaker 1: new clients onto a platform, and once they're there, can

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Speaker 1: we effectively follow them through their data, you know, and

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Speaker 1: being able to find other revenue sources throughout the platform.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting concept of potentially moving from

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Speaker 1: assets under management to data under management. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a great line, by the way, and

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Speaker 1: I think what we're going to see is five or

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Speaker 1: six companies. A lot of the assets just flow to

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Speaker 1: these big sort of consolidated giant companies that are everything

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Speaker 1: to everybody, and what they do besides make a little

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Speaker 1: money on the expense ratio is going to be other revenances.

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Speaker 1: How can you creatively earn some money on all that

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Speaker 1: assets and all the people that are part of the assets.

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Speaker 1: And that's sort of what he's talking about. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: first off, his idea of data under management instead of

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Speaker 1: assets under management. I'm dying to call this draper's dumb idea?

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Speaker 1: Do you am? So I want to get that on

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Speaker 1: the record first, But I think it's really interesting idea

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Speaker 1: and I think it has a lot of merit to it. Um.

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Speaker 1: I My pushback is what does data mean? That's just

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Speaker 1: such a buzz word. Um. But I do think you know,

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Speaker 1: these companies are going to need to make money somehow,

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Speaker 1: and that could be a pathway forward. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a question of can you use the data, can you

429
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 1: gather it, can you clean it? And can you implement it? Yeah.

430
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 1: I want to see what the pop up on the experiences, like, hey,

431
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 1: we've been scraping your data and we noticed X and

432
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you've been doing what? Yeah? But the

433
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: low fee, the zero fee in a lot of cases

434
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 1: uh e t F four that we've seen. That was

435
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 1: another big topic and we spoke to Rory Tobin at

436
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 1: Spider about that and um he said that what they've

437
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 1: been doing is cutting costs elsewhere, you know, trying to

438
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: bring more digital capabilities to portfolio management, and it was

439
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 1: it was interesting. He likened it to Ryanair, the European

440
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: low cost airline, how they may not have seatback pockets,

441
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 1: you may not get to your destination on time, but

442
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: you know, it works. They're Europe's largest low budget airlines.

443
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: So he's trying to tap into that wisdom. And for

444
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: a while they weren't going to have seats, They're going

445
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 1: to be standing position. Yeah, I mean, I get his

446
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: point there, but I also think it's a terrible metaphor

447
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: because people hate airlines that do that. They hate it,

448
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: but it's working for Ryan Air. They're profitable. Eric, who

449
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: who's next next is? You know, we talked about Dan

450
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 1: Draper runs a huge company and their struggles. But then

451
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: I moderated moderated a panel called the Rebels, which is

452
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,959
Speaker 1: about the small issuers and India issuers and how they

453
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: can survive in a era of giants. So here's Andrew

454
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 1: Chainin of um Ufo the space ETF. He also was

455
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: formerly of Hack. He came up with this et F

456
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: Hack and he got into a lawsuit with his own

457
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 1: white label issuer. And I thought Hack was one of

458
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: the greatest theme launches ever, in fact that I think

459
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: it inspired a generation of of theme launch. It wasn't bad. Yeah,

460
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: So after Hack kind of became a controversy, he launched

461
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 1: a new fund called UFO. Long story short, he's going

462
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: to comment on the Hack controversy, and he's also going

463
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: to comment on why he prefers to be a small issue,

464
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: because I thought maybe after that he would just go

465
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 1: and sort of join black Rock or or Vanguard or

466
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: something like that and just you know, take that road.

467
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: But he's like, he likes to like to be the

468
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: small guy. One of the best things I thought that

469
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: actually came out of the Hack fiasco is there's now

470
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: a federal rolling showing through the through the courts that

471
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: actually a white label client does have protections in this industry,

472
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: and before it was an unknown and we hadn't had

473
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: to deal with this issue before. So although there was

474
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: a lot of questions and possible concerns, if anything, I

475
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: feel like this is a huge win for the overall

476
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: ETF industry as well as for white label clients and

477
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: just talk a little bit about the role of a

478
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: small issue where it seems so hard from the outside

479
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: looking in, Um, you know, why not just joined a

480
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: big firm and live a comfortable life. You're You're right,

481
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: there's absolutely nothing easy about being a small issue or

482
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: and going off on your own. However, it allows you

483
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 1: to partner with the partners that you want to work with,

484
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: allows you to push forward the ideas that you believe

485
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 1: in it, and allows you to shape your organization the

486
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: way you think an organization should be structured. And I

487
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: think that freedom and allowance gives you the ability to

488
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: create something truly different. And that's why I'm thrilled to

489
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: be able to be an independent insut or. Did anybody

490
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: on that panel said that say that they weren't thrilled

491
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: to be an independent initiator? No, but they expressed challenges

492
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: like when you come out with a product and then

493
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: black Rock or Spider launch is something very similar for

494
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: half the cost, that's a bummer, and that product has

495
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: a better likelihood of getting onto a platform that like

496
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: a Merrill or ubs has And so sometimes the small

497
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 1: guys are just left out of the distribution system and uh,

498
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: it's a it's a rough road. I feel for them,

499
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: and I tend to lean indie. That's why I picked

500
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: an indie fund for my best new et F pundit

501
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: to SmackDown Um, I think I did that go well,

502
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: I didn't win, but I think I made a case,

503
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: and I got a couple of emails saying, you you

504
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: made a good point, but did you place in the

505
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: top three. I don't think so. I think I'm in

506
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: the I'm in the middle. Usually look this this indie

507
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: the best pundit SmackDown. I think it really favors moments,

508
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: an improvisational comedy. The person who one was amazing. I

509
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: don't know if FORR. E. T F was the greatest ever.

510
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,719
Speaker 1: It's TDV. It's like a tech dividen fund. But she

511
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: had a great moment on stage, and she was very likable,

512
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: and the presentation is huge, and you know she nailed it.

513
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: But that said, I'm proud of what I presented because

514
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: I picked the uranium minor et F and I basically

515
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: premised that, look, people want to fight climate change, but

516
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 1: they don't want to give up their lifestyles, and wind

517
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: and solar won't cover the difference, so you need something

518
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: to fill it in. And as Bill Gates said, this

519
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 1: is carbon free, it's scalable, and it's seven So if

520
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: there's even a little public consensus or embracement of nuclear power,

521
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: then this thing should shoot up. And I like the

522
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: fact that it launched after a horrible back test. The

523
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: sectors down in the past eight years, and so it

524
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: has a lot of room to run. So I wanted

525
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: to just be on the record presenting this thing ahead

526
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: of time, because if it starts to go up, people

527
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: gonna go Yeah. Eric was first on that, and if

528
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't, nobody will probably even bother to like say anything.

529
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: Katie Claire, did you guys meet any India issuers that

530
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: you were impressed by? Well, I met Andrew, which who

531
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: had spoken with before, but I got to talk with

532
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: him some more, and um, really interesting marketing there. I

533
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: think it just really speaks to how people are trying

534
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: to stand out. I think he had astronaut ice cream

535
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, the guy that we just heard cream. Yeah,

536
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: he had a huge green blow up alien with a

537
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: UFO shirt on. He wore these huge orange sneakers that

538
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: were the first ever Nike NASA collaboration, so the sneakers

539
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: you wear in space, and then he had space ice cream.

540
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: He went all out. Who's next? Yeah, next up? We

541
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: got James mortier As who's from GMO. Sometimes they have

542
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: economists and people like that speak. It's not an E

543
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: T F kind of conversation. But what he said I

544
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: thought was fascinating. He thought the sixty forty portfolio was

545
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: in trouble, which is like a mainstay of your management.

546
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: Are the advisors there probably have something like a sixty forty.

547
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: So I thought this was interesting to hear him challenge

548
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: that this is going to have a rough road going forward.

549
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: One of the big challenges I think the people is

550
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: the sixty forty is simply not going to work the

551
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: way that people expected to work. And that's a real challenge.

552
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: And we are going to end up with a portfolio

553
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: that is a very long way short of the expectations

554
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 1: that people have from their investments. And what are some

555
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: ways to like an alternative or in your kids you

556
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: like E M value, Yes, so I think you can

557
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: do better than the s and right now that that

558
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: involves owning things like emerging market values stocks which are

559
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: beaten up and loathed but offer the chance of a

560
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: decent equity like return. So I think you can still

561
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: board a portfolio that makes sense um and will give

562
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: you the kind of returns you need, but it will

563
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: look incredibly unconventional, and that's why most people will will

564
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: balk at it. They just won't be able to stomach

565
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: the visual perception of what they're doing. Katie, what do

566
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: you what do you make of the death of sixty

567
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: forty conversation? You know, it's something that you hear every

568
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: once in a while, especially when markets are really going

569
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: down the toilets. But I haven't heard anyone, you know,

570
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: give me a really full throated uh case for why

571
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: it would die. So it was really interesting to hear

572
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: James's comments. And I think part of it is that

573
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: remember two um, stocks and bonds pretty much both felt

574
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: the only thing that worked was cash. That was called

575
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: the everything down and then everything goes up. If everything

576
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: starts going up and down sixty forty, there is no

577
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: more diversification. So what he's saying is look out of that.

578
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: And I was at an alternative panel that talked about

579
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: that too, said maybe you should look for a long

580
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: short strategy. Something has an alternative stream, so in case sixty,

581
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: in case both of those start falling, you have something.

582
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: His big pitch though, was e M value. He thinks

583
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: emerging markets values at P of ten, and that is

584
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: a great place to be right now. I'm not saying

585
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: to use it, But if you are interested, the ticker

586
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: that would do that is p X at p x H.

587
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: It's pretty much the only E M value et F

588
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: out there. Claire, how are you doing on on all

589
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: your kers? Who? Here's a question we usually ask, and

590
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask it now. What's your new favorite ticker? Oh?

591
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: That's a good one. Um. I like some of the

592
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: cyber ones. I like Hack. That's kind of a fun one.

593
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: It feels like alphabet soup. I'm still trying to get

594
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: my head around all of them. Hack is like an

595
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: all time Yeah, it's a top five easily by by

596
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: anybody's standards. It's a great one. Eric, Uh, we got

597
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: another clip. Yeah. So um. Sometimes you go to these

598
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: events and you run into actual like founding father types, legends,

599
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: and you know, unless you know them, you may not

600
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: even know you're next to somebody. Here's Jay Baker who

601
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: worked at AMX back in the day, and he was

602
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: tasked with trying to get more volume and spy because

603
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: nobody was trading it. It almost failed and the whole

604
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: industry would never happen. And this is the guy that

605
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: kind of saves spy. And we had Jay Baker on

606
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: our special trillions about the creation actually of spy. Yeah,

607
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: if you go and google the et F story, it's

608
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: a great six part series if you want to learn more.

609
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: But at that point it was in an American Stock

610
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: Exchange products. State Street wasn't involved. They did get involved

611
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: with the marketing later and they did a great job,

612
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: but in the beginning it was moving slowly. So what

613
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: happened was a senior executive at the American Stock Exchange

614
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: approached me and Steve Bloom and said, look, spiders moving

615
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: a little bit slowly. I went to do institutional marketing.

616
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: I want you to get a hundred million in the

617
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: Spider within six months. So we went around to all

618
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: the different um institutional firms. There was some interest, you know,

619
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: there was interest to an extent, but it was interest

620
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of a shrug of the shoulders. So

621
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: we went to one in particular called Die with Securities,

622
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: and we answered about two thousand questions that they had

623
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: about the product, and they ended up basically creating two

624
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: hundred fifty million dollars worth the spider spiders at forty

625
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: five so this is several million shares. And the reason

626
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: they did it was they found an opportunity, and the

627
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: opportunity was people wanted to short spider, so they basically

628
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: created hedge, created two D fifty million, sold short two

629
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: fifty million, SMP five hundred future, so they were hedge

630
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: whether the market went up or down five points and

631
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: loaned out the spider. I didn't ever hear that before. Yeah,

632
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: it's tells you the early days of ets, they were

633
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: for institutions to do trading. They were supposed to be

634
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: like a better version of the futures contract. Then black

635
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: Rock or Barclays came along and saw the retail opportunity.

636
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: But either way, I just like these stories where it's

637
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: like a Silicon Valley story where nothing's going right, but

638
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: you just hustle and then you get a couple of

639
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: breaks and and then boom, you get that tipping point.

640
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: And this is you know before that for sure, how

641
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: much hustle was there on the floor of this place.

642
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: There's lots of running around, and not just in the

643
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: actual run. It was saw some people kind of sweaty

644
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: trying to get to all their meetings. But I think

645
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: it's cool to you know, being new to the space,

646
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: it's really neat to be in the same room with

647
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: people who are here from the beginning, and I think

648
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: it's also a reminder of how kind of young the

649
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: area is and how it's still up and coming. Yeah,

650
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: it was a great mix of people who you know,

651
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: were around at the start, you know, when the first

652
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: ETFs came out, like for example, we spoke to John Jacobs,

653
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: who was one of the creators of the queues and

654
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: then you know there's a lot of young people such

655
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: as clear as myself, people who are very new to

656
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: the space. And do you have those hustlers there? And

657
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: we're going to close it out with We're gonna close

658
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: with this very unique site called jobs and ETFs. Anybody

659
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: out there is looking for and by the way, people

660
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: do come to this without jobs to maybe, like you know,

661
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: find somebody. You know. There is definitely like networking, and

662
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: I've seen people find jobs here. So here we have

663
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: Claude Matrosh, who is one of the people who runs

664
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: Jobs and et F, and I just asked them a

665
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: little bit about you know what this site does and

666
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: you know how many jobs are on there, and it's

667
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: it's really a great resource. At the moment, we have

668
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: over a hundred jobs listed on the website. Um. Most

669
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: of these jobs comes from companies that want so expand

670
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: their teams or expand their their their portfolios. Yeah, I

671
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: mean a hundred jobs and I've gone on there. They're

672
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: from big companies, small companies. They're in all over the world. Um.

673
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: You know again, sometimes I feel like it's the nineties

674
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: economy and sod T t t F s UM. Again. The

675
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: revenue growth isn't major because of the price compression, but

676
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: the assets are flowing here. It's always leading in assets,

677
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: and so there's a ton of jobs coming across. And

678
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: what he specializes in is getting these new companies that

679
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: are coming over like a t row and trying to

680
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: fit like who from the E T F rold might

681
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: come over. So we see this move a lot where

682
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: the head of capital markets at like say a Spider

683
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: or a Vanguard will go over to lead like an

684
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: older mutual fund company that just happened with Tim Coin

685
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: left Spider to go to t Row and leave that up.

686
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: And so this is a trend we've seen and he's

687
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: kind of helps facilitate that. I am shocked that we

688
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: haven't talked about this before. This seems like a great episode.

689
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: I know we should have him in Um and his

690
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: partner is really cool too. I had a eight dinner

691
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: with him and had one too many Japanese old fashions.

692
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: I think they'd be good guests, all right. So the

693
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: other part of jobs, I guess you could say, is

694
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: like there are after parties where you get to like,

695
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: you know, meet people. What kind of afterparties, um, other

696
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: than you know, just consuming too much. There's the one

697
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 1: the conference has by the pool bar, and I think

698
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: everybody goes there. But then there's like dinners and stuff.

699
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: So I went to BBH dinner on the first night,

700
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: and then I on the second night, I went to

701
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: an informal one by Ryan Curland organized from Alpha architect

702
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: which had a lot of fint with there. And that

703
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: was an a Mexican restaurant Marguerite Deville Aboup, you know,

704
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: two miles down the road. Both fun. I didn't do

705
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: a kind of partying, but I enjoyed the cocktail hours

706
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: by the beach and just I think we should just

707
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: pick up the Bloomberg New York office moving for a while, Katie.

708
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: It was a great scene. Um. Yeah, the hotel party

709
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: that was great. And I went to one of the

710
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: parties held by Jane Street. The name of the restaurant

711
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: escapes me, but one of the beauties of being in

712
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: Florida in January. Even though I didn't go outside that much,

713
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: I did feel like it was okay to order an

714
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: Appall Spirits. You know, it was okay to drink a

715
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: summer drink that I totally agree. You're and you're in Hollywood, Claire, Katie,

716
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us and Drillion. Thanks for listening to

717
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: Trillians until next time. You can find us on the

718
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever

719
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: else you'd like to listen. We'd love to hear from you.

720
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: We're on Twitter, I'm at Joel Webber Show. He's at

721
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: Eric Faultiness. You can find Katie at k Griefield k

722
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 1: g R E I F E L D and Clear

723
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: Valentine's at CFB Underscore eighteen. This episode of Trillions was

724
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 1: produced by Magnus Hendrickson and edited by Darrelle Dillard. Francesco

725
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: Levie is the head of Bloomberg Podcast by