WEBVTT - From the Vault: Play the Record Backwards, Part 2 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:08.480 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. This is 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.719 Robert Lamb and it's Saturday. So once more we have 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:13.760 a vault episode for you. This is going to be 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:18.400 part two of Play the Record Backwards. This is a 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:22.200 couple of episodes that I did with former producer Seth 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.480 Nicholas Johnson, all about, as you know, all the various 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:27.800 hidden things that might be going on in the grooves 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.640 of old records or in even files, CDs and so forth. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:34.640 It's a lot of fun. I hope you enjoyed the 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.680 original episode, published the first of December twenty twenty two. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:39.880 Let's dive right. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:47.320 In Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.440 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:56.480 is Robert Lamb. 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:57.960 And I'm Seth Nicholas Johnson. 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.319 Joe. As of this record still out on parental leave. 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.720 We'll be back soon. But in this episode, Seth and 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:09.800 I are continuing our exploration of hidden messages and allegations 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:14.760 of hidden messages, secrets and easter eggs in music. In 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.800 the last episode we talked a lot about backmasking, about 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.240 reversed audio. We mentioned some other examples of the way 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.399 that things can and we're hidden in music. But in 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.679 this episode we are going to venture into the groove, 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.640 into the record groove, and discuss physical media and even 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.840 more detail. We did touch on it a bit in 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.800 the last one. So if you if you basically know 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.560 nothing about vinyl records and how you play a record, 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:44.960 go back and listen to that first episode, because we 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:47.600 do talk about some of that. Because I mean, part 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.680 of the background here for this discussion is as much 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.360 as I admire certain vinyl records that come out and 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.040 I see them on a website or in a store, 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.520 I've never purchased one. And since a child, I've been 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.240 told to avoid touching vinyl records. Let the adults use that. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.239 You don't want to break the needle or scratch the record, etc. 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.160 And so I've left them alone. Seth, on the other hand, 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.480 you have a very different relationship with records. 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:20.520 Absolutely, I've manufactured vinyl, I've processed vinyl coming from like 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:25.280 full blown pressing plants. I've been buying it most of 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.160 my life. For me, when I was younger, I reached 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.280 a certain point where I inherited a few records from 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.200 like my parents, but they didn't have a very sizeable 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.760 collection but when I started going to record stores in 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.079 my youth to buy CDs, there was a point when 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.600 I realized, oh, wow, these other things are so much 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:46.760 cheaper than the CDs. This would have been in like 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.360 the nineties, and that was all there was to it was. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.840 I was just greedy for music, and I was just like, 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.080 all right, how am I going to get as much 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.800 music as possible. I'm going to buy these used records 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.320 as much as I can. And in fact, at that stage, 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.720 I can give some deliberate examples, like, for example, let's 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.840 say Radiohead, I might be wrong the live recordings that record. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.799 I remember holding a CD in one hand and a 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.520 vinyl record in the other, and the record was cheaper, 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.320 so I went, oh, all right, I guess I'm going 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.320 with the record. Same thing with a Widow City by 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.560 the Fiery Furnaces. Just like that era the late nineties 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.880 early two thousands where it was like, oh, new vinyl 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.399 is cheaper than new CDs. Now that is completely the opposite, 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.200 so be prepared if you're going into a record store. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.720 But at the time it was not a very popular format. 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:38.520 So that's why I got into vinyl was just because 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.680 it was the less expensive option so I could buy 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.960 more music. And so yeah, that's that's kind of why 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:44.720 it started for me. 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.840 Now in looking at a record and in playing a record, 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.520 this is this is where I really had no idea 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:53.640 about any of this. I kind of had this idea 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.320 that if you, if you place a record on the turntable, 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.840 you place a needle in the grooves, there's just one 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.720 path that it is. Essentially, I guess it's kind of 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.680 like the distinction between a labyrinth and a maze. If 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.200 you if you, if you have if you make that distinction, 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.480 Like a labyrinth, there's only one way through. It twists 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.160 and turns, but you can't get lost because there there 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.159 are no dead ends. It is a journey through complexity 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:21.440 from point A to point B. A maze, however, can 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.920 be different. A maze can have different paths through the complexity. 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.440 A maze can have dead ends, it can have traps, 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.039 it can have dragons and trolls and so forth, if you, 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.400 if you want, and based on a lot of what 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.440 I ended up reading here, and based on what I 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.200 think we're gonna be discussing here, it does seem to 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:46.160 me like actually vinyl records are more like this maze. 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.400 There there's more. There is sometimes more than one path 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.040 through the record, the. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.400 Good ones, I would say, the average record. I think 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.279 you're correct, there is a very deliberate path. Always starts 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.000 in the same place out at the edge of the record, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.479 always ends at the same place, which is the inside 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:06.240 of the record. I think that's that's the most common route. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.120 But there there are many examples of people trying new things, 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:11.960 people going different routes with that. 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.800 And this is this is so just counter to like 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:18.359 the tape culture, the DVD culture, and then the subsequent 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:22.200 digital media culture that that that I most have most 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.800 of my experience with. Like there there was there. We'll 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.320 get into some examples. Yeah, you have things like hidden 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.640 tracks with with CDs and so forth, But this is 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.240 a whole different scenario. This is like the it's like 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:36.919 the record as puzzle box, you know. 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.799 Yeah, yeah, And it's fun where you can hide these things. 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.080 Like I said, I've I've manufactured a lot of records 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.080 on my own. In particular, I I do what's called 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:49.520 lay the embossed records. And so here's here's a fascinating 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.320 thing I have personally done, which I think is really cool. 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.599 So on a compact disc. Okay, Uh, the data is 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.440 written from the inside, you know, toward towards the center 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.240 to the outside. Vinyl is the opposite that the information 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.240 is on the outside going inside. So usually on a 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.599 CD there will be some blank space because there's like 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:13.120 eighty something minutes of space on a compact disc. If 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.080 you're whatever you're doing doesn't use up that much space, 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.520 you have this extra room on the end. So what 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.040 I've done, I have flipped a compact disc upside down 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:27.200 and put a song from a vinyl you know, embossing 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.640 needle onto the underside of the CD. And now not 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:32.440 only is that a CD that can be played in 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.720 a CD player, but if you flip it upside down 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.640 and put on a record player, you can play a 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:41.320 song on the underside of the CD itself. So like fun, 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.800 things like that you can do with vinyl, and it's 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.760 just not it's you know that fun isn't there in 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:49.120 most of the other mediums. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.000 All right, Well, let's get into some specific examples here, 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:53.440 and for this I'm going to go back to an 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.280 article that I referenced in the first episode that we did. 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:01.320 This is by Jonathan Vinyl. Darryl Griffin Stuart Cunningham in 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:05.240 twenty fourteen's Easter eggs Hidden tracks and Messages in Musical Mediums, 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.919 and they write that there are three primary ways that 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:13.480 records allow for hidden information. The first is something called 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.720 locked grooves. So these are grooves which cause the turntable 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.920 to play an endless loop. And I guess I get 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:24.920 you'll have to maybe help me make sense of this. 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.880 But is it like if the needle enters this particular groove, 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.600 it will just go on forever in a circle. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.560 I have a record here next to me. Coincidentally, I'll 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.840 just show you literally on it. Sorry, I won't be 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.120 able to show you because this is a audio medium, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.680 but I'm pointing it out to Robert. All right, So Robert, 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.400 you see this record in front of you. The song 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:48.000 plays starting here at the outside, and then it moves 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.560 to the inside. Like I was saying, now, when the 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.440 needle gets past the songs, the record needs to stop it. 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.080 He needs to stop the needle from just running into 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.440 the paper label or anything like that. So right here, 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.520 right next to the label, like basically a big circle 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.480 going around the paper label center of a record, that 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.760 is where the traditional locked groove is. There's no sound 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.920 on it. It's just instead of a spiral, because that's 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.880 basically what a groove is. It's a very elaborate, very 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:22.440 dense spiral, you know, containing different grooves and therefore vibrations 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.280 and sound. The very very bottom of that spiral, it 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.960 doesn't still end as a spiral. It ends as a 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:33.280 solid circle. That way, the needle when it's finished will 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.000 more or less stay still. It'll just stay at that 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:40.559 central point and it won't cut into the label or whatever. 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.160 So if I'm, for instance, if I'm watching a film 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.400 in which a record has finish, this is my main 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.599 experience of this. In a movie, if a record is 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.520 finished playing, sometimes it'll just be that chunk kind of 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.720 sound that's the locked groove at the end of the record. 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.320 Yes, although most locked grooves wouldn't make any sound at all, 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:04.440 but yes, correct, that kind of like stereotypical loop down 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:05.040 there at the end. 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.720 Yes, yes, well, the authors of this paper, they point out, quote, 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.640 most records will only contain a silent locked groove to 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.160 prevent damage to the needle when it reaches the end 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.720 of a side. Like you explained, the presence of a 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.880 locked groove that contains music would be difficult to detect 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.320 without prior knowledge or careful visual inspection of the grooves. Therefore, 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.920 a music containing locked groove has a good chance of 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.920 surprising the listener during the performance of the recording. 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.080 That's true. If you're looking at it from the outside, 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.440 it doesn't look any different, just just like for the 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.040 most part, if you're looking at grooves on a record, 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.720 you can't determine what's on them. Actually you can if 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.000 you have very very talented eyes. Eventually you can tell 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.240 what the silence looks like. But that's that's that's just 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.880 experts only. That's not the average person at all. 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.520 The prime example that they mentioned in the paper of 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.920 this is of having music in the locked groove. Bring 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.320 back to the Beatles a Day in the Life from 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.600 Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart Hearts called Band. This song enters 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.280 a locked groove at the end of the song, a 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.520 locked groove that contains music. And I mean, thinking back 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.800 on the on the song, I mean I know where 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:17.880 this is occurring, but I only have experience with like 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.400 the CD version of this, right, I had this album 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.280 on CD when I was I think in high school. 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.240 But if you were playing the record, that final tone 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.120 of the song potentially goes on forever, is that right? 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.520 Yeah, yeah, as long as you don't lift it, because yeah, 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.440 like I was saying, that central locked groove, it's there's 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.480 no data there. It's silent, there's no sound. It's just 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.360 like you're saying, like, chunk chunk, chunk chunk, it's just 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:47.160 moving in a circle. But there's no rule that says 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.360 you can't put some noise on those grooves. Why not? 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.680 You know? Why not have that circle be a loop 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:54.760 of audio? Why not? 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.480 And have you experimented with this in creating records? 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.880 I have many times. It's fun like why wouldn't you? 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:02.120 You know. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:07.319 So, most importantly, something to keep in mind when you're 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.959 doing this is that it's actually a pretty small window 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.360 to create that loop. So a typical record rotates at 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.720 thirty three and a third revolutions per minute Summer forty five, 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.320 but that's a that's usually for singles. So yeah, thirty 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.520 three and a third revolutions per minute, which means that 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.679 a single rotation of the record, one needle going all 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.760 the way around is one point eight seconds. So that's 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.320 how long your loop has to be. One point eight seconds, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.960 no more, no less. So, so here's an example of 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:37.959 one I've done. I did one where it was called 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.760 it was a series called skip records, where what I 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.400 did was oh, that's actually another good, great example. If 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.520 you ever are listening to a record that's damaged and 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.160 the record starts skipping, it's always the same duration. It's 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.440 always one point eight seconds, because that same fragment is 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.440 going to be playing again and again and again. That's 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.880 why you can actually tell if someone is faking a 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.920 skipping record, because it'll be longer or shorter than that 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.400 quick just like zip it, dip it deep up, zip it, 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.560 dip it deep up. It's that is that one point 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.679 eight second loop. And in fact, when when I am 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.160 manufacturing records, that's the final step before I finish a record. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.360 Is so, if you can picture it in your mind, 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.480 there is basically an arm that has a cutting needle. 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.360 Usually it's a sapphire or a ruby, and it's pressing 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.720 into the the I use use polycarbonate. It's pressing into 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.000 the polycarbonate and it's moving from left to right on 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.280 like a spiral arm. Basically, what you do is when 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.960 you're done recording, is you stop that arm for moving 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.480 left or right then you go one one thousand, two 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.880 one thousand, and then you lift it up. And what 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.360 you're doing by by stopping the movement is you're ending 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.319 that spiral in a single place and you wait one 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.400 one thousand and two one thousand for it to complete 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:57.600 that circle and end that loop. But if you are 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.920 still playing audio when you do that one one thousand 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.120 and two one thousand, what you're doing is still putting data, 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.439 putting information, putting sound into that loop, and you can 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.880 make a go forever. So, like I was saying, I 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.800 had a series called Skip Records where my whole point 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:14.720 was I wanted it to sound like a record was 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.600 just skipping for five minutes straight. Don't ask me why 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.920 it's art, you know it's fun. And uh so I 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.680 did this multiple times. And the fun part is is 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.199 that I on these records, I always ensured that the 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:34.240 final groove was always a locked groove. Therefore potentially that 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.320 these records loop forever, that there is no end to 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.320 this record and it can just play until your record 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.800 player breaks or until til there's a power outage. It's 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.079 just it's a it's a it's a forever equation. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.880 Wow, And you have favorite examples of this from from 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.480 from other records, from from bands and so forth. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.560 There's a lot, And actually it's it's fun to me because, 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.160 like you said, you usually don't know when it's going 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.240 to happen. So for me, if I put on a 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.880 record and it's playing and it ends up in a 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.040 locked groove and you've never heard this record before, you 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.319 might be off on the other side, reading or playing 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.160 a video game or doing the dishes, who knows, and 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.040 you notice that, like, wow, it's been doing this one 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.600 tone for like forty five minutes. That's not even possible 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.840 on a record, Like there's not that much room. What 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.000 is happening? And you walk over and you're like, ah, 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.080 this record's got a locked groove. This happened to me 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.200 once on one of my favorite records, And this is 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:32.160 my favorite example of this. The nineteen ninety seven Godspeed 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.000 You Black Emperor album F Sharp A sharp Infinity. The 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:40.240 final track Bleak Uncertain Beautiful, It ends on a locked 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.680 groove playing the final two notes of the song, and 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.520 those last two notes are F sharp and A sharp, 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.280 and by being un a locked groove, they play for infinity, 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:52.440 And yeah, I still remember the first time I played 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.480 that record and when that needle hit that final moment, 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.600 it just kept going and going and going, and I 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:03.040 was like, this is wonder like it took me. You know, 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.080 I had to be active. I had I had to 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.880 realize that something was not right, investigate and realize what 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.640 they had done to me and my time. It's it's 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:13.960 it's a fun practice, you know. 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.760 Do you maybe this doesn't occur, but do you. Are 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:19.440 you ever in a position where someone comes up to 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:21.880 you and says like, I don't know anything about records, 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.680 but I'm going to get into records now. I'm gonna 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.600 start buying vinyl, And then do you have to warn them? Like, look, 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:28.960 people have laid traps for you. 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.280 The main one which I actually will warn people about 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.320 because these things were discussing a lucked groove doesn't happen 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.760 that often, So some other techniques were about to discuss 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.480 don't happen that often. It's it's it's it's pretty rare, 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.560 and they're and they're extra cool because of it. One 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.160 that is extremely common that actually happens all the time, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.720 not just to others but to me as well, is 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.320 the difference between a thirty three and a third record 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.440 and a forty five record, because forty five rpm records, 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.680 I'm sure you everyone would understand this. A forty five 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.320 rpm it's spinning faster, so therefore the data that's put 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.360 onto it, the vibrations, the grooves are at a different speed, 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.720 you know. So if you put on a forty five 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.640 rpm record at thirty three and a third, it's extremely 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:19.160 slowed down. So you might have a completely incorrect view 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.920 of a song if you don't pay attention to what 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:25.920 the speed is. And there's audio file pressings of records 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.880 where they'll have full twelve inch records that are printed 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.000 at forty five rpm because there's more room for the 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.160 grooves so they can sound better, blah blah blah, and 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.920 so you just have to know. You have to hopefully 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.320 the artist has labeled the record this is a forty 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.840 five rpm, or you just have to listen to and go, 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.080 that's not right. Try it at thirty three and a third, 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.280 Try it at forty five and go, okay, that's right. 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.600 But sometimes you won't know. Sometimes they won't label it 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.000 and they won't tell you, so you just have to 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.760 make your best guess. Like like Ram for example, used 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.640 to never label the sides of their records, Like there 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.280 was no side A side B. It was just, hey, 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:02.640 you listen to one and they listen to the other. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.919 I'm not telling you which is which. And not until 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.000 CDs came around did they have to eventually decide and 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.679 put an actual track order for you. And there were 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.840 a couple that I learned I had the wrong order, like, 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:20.320 for example, I always listened to murmur by Ram side 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.400 B first, then side A, but I had no way 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:24.879 of knowing that until I bought a CD of it. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.280 Wow, all right, we'll get back to track ordering in 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.600 a bit. There's gonna be more on that. But getting 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.280 back to the three main methods of hiding stuff in 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.520 the grooves here from that twenty fourteen paper, the next 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:41.280 one they mentioned is inverse grooves. So this, if I'm 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.960 understanding this correctly, it is a record that it's meant 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.959 to be played backwards. If you play it forwards, you 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.000 are playing it backwards. Is that correct? 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.680 Yes, they think about it this way, as we were discussing. 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.320 When you're playing a record, you start the needle at 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.520 the rim and you press play and it continues until 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.120 it hits the label. That's the traditional way record plays. 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.720 The grooves are set up that way, the spiral leading 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.040 down to the drain, you know, that's the way it goes. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.399 These are the other way around. You are supposed to 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.000 start the needle in the middle and then it plays 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.000 out to the edge, almost like manga style. It's like, 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.280 oh mm, start at the other end, you know. 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.280 Yeah. So they mentioned a couple of examples of this. 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:27.000 One is a this one. I don't know, were you 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:31.359 familiar with this particular group. This is a Nomes track 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:36.840 Goarf Beat, one from the Praxis USAEP and it includes 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:39.680 the instructions to play it. One must place the needle 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:41.880 at the point where you would expect the track to end. 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.480 And then they also mentioned Megadeth's single for Sweating Bullets, 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.080 which was an inverse groove pressing and it had a 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.960 warning on the packaging that said quote paranoid pressing on 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.520 blue vinyl. Warning, do not attempt to play this record 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.040 in the conventional manner. Both sides reverse play from the 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:01.520 inside groove outwards. 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.280 It makes sense because I bet the average person they 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.960 would just assume their record was broken, you know, because 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.520 if you did put it the correct place and pressed forward. 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.359 Best case scenario you're getting it to play backwards. More 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.840 probable is that because that is starting with the locked groove, 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.840 it won't be able to enter into that spiral. So 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.399 it'll just sit there and you'll just hear nothing or 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.240 maybe a little little skipping or some static. But another 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.399 great example of this this is found on Jack White's 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:33.280 twenty fourteen solo album Lazaretto. Jack White and his record 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.720 label Third Man Records are known for doing all kinds 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:40.520 of fun gimmicky things, like they have like liquid core records. 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.720 They have records where like there'll be a forty five 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.600 inch record hidden inside of a twelve inch you have 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.159 to like cut open the record to pull out another record. Like, 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.280 He's done a lot of really fun, interesting things. He 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.680 is the Willy Wonka of record manufacturers, and I really 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.760 admire him for that. For his twenty fourteen album Lazaretto, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.639 he just wanted to put it all in one record. 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.840 He wanted to be all the gimmicks all at once. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:09.240 So he called this version of Lazaretto the Ultra LP 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.879 And it's got so many fun gimmicks and innovations that 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.359 we would need literally an entire episode just to break 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.560 them down. But you could. You can find copies of 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.720 it to see online. I believe there's also a YouTube 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.480 video which I sent you, Robert, which has Jack White 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.879 just pointing out every single wacky gimmick of this one 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:30.600 single record. But on side one of this record, it 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.960 does play backwards like you're saying you have to start 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.200 the new needle by the label, and it plays out 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.520 to the rim. And I wonder how many people just 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.240 couldn't figure that out, because, you know, I mean, it's 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.480 I know a lot of people who just in life, 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.239 they aren't reading instructions. Kind of people, you know, like 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.480 if they get a piece of furniture from Ikia, they're 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.040 not going to read the instructions, They're just going to 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.600 put it together. And I'm sure buying a record, you 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.359 don't even assume that there will be instructions, you know, 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.080 whether it was Megadeth with Sweating Bullets or whether it's 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.880 Jack White with Lazaretto, why would there be instructions? So 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.919 you just play it and you're confused why it's not working. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.399 Yeah, this Lazaretto album, when you initially mentioned it to 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:13.200