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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. This is

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Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and it's Saturday. So once more we have

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Speaker 1: a vault episode for you. This is going to be

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Speaker 1: part two of Play the Record Backwards. This is a

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Speaker 1: couple of episodes that I did with former producer Seth

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Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson, all about, as you know, all the various

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Speaker 1: hidden things that might be going on in the grooves

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Speaker 1: of old records or in even files, CDs and so forth.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun. I hope you enjoyed the

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Speaker 1: original episode, published the first of December twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: Let's dive right.

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Speaker 2: In Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Seth Nicholas Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Joe. As of this record still out on parental leave.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back soon. But in this episode, Seth and

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Speaker 1: I are continuing our exploration of hidden messages and allegations

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Speaker 1: of hidden messages, secrets and easter eggs in music. In

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Speaker 1: the last episode we talked a lot about backmasking, about

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Speaker 1: reversed audio. We mentioned some other examples of the way

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Speaker 1: that things can and we're hidden in music. But in

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Speaker 1: this episode we are going to venture into the groove,

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Speaker 1: into the record groove, and discuss physical media and even

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Speaker 1: more detail. We did touch on it a bit in

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Speaker 1: the last one. So if you if you basically know

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Speaker 1: nothing about vinyl records and how you play a record,

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to that first episode, because we

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Speaker 1: do talk about some of that. Because I mean, part

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Speaker 1: of the background here for this discussion is as much

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Speaker 1: as I admire certain vinyl records that come out and

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Speaker 1: I see them on a website or in a store,

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Speaker 1: I've never purchased one. And since a child, I've been

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Speaker 1: told to avoid touching vinyl records. Let the adults use that.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to break the needle or scratch the record, etc.

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Speaker 1: And so I've left them alone. Seth, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: you have a very different relationship with records.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I've manufactured vinyl, I've processed vinyl coming from like

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Speaker 3: full blown pressing plants. I've been buying it most of

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Speaker 3: my life. For me, when I was younger, I reached

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Speaker 3: a certain point where I inherited a few records from

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Speaker 3: like my parents, but they didn't have a very sizeable

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Speaker 3: collection but when I started going to record stores in

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Speaker 3: my youth to buy CDs, there was a point when

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Speaker 3: I realized, oh, wow, these other things are so much

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Speaker 3: cheaper than the CDs. This would have been in like

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Speaker 3: the nineties, and that was all there was to it was.

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Speaker 3: I was just greedy for music, and I was just like,

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Speaker 3: all right, how am I going to get as much

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Speaker 3: music as possible. I'm going to buy these used records

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Speaker 3: as much as I can. And in fact, at that stage,

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Speaker 3: I can give some deliberate examples, like, for example, let's

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Speaker 3: say Radiohead, I might be wrong the live recordings that record.

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Speaker 3: I remember holding a CD in one hand and a

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Speaker 3: vinyl record in the other, and the record was cheaper,

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Speaker 3: so I went, oh, all right, I guess I'm going

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Speaker 3: with the record. Same thing with a Widow City by

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Speaker 3: the Fiery Furnaces. Just like that era the late nineties

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Speaker 3: early two thousands where it was like, oh, new vinyl

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Speaker 3: is cheaper than new CDs. Now that is completely the opposite,

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Speaker 3: so be prepared if you're going into a record store.

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Speaker 3: But at the time it was not a very popular format.

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Speaker 3: So that's why I got into vinyl was just because

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Speaker 3: it was the less expensive option so I could buy

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Speaker 3: more music. And so yeah, that's that's kind of why

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Speaker 3: it started for me.

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Speaker 1: Now in looking at a record and in playing a record,

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Speaker 1: this is this is where I really had no idea

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Speaker 1: about any of this. I kind of had this idea

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Speaker 1: that if you, if you place a record on the turntable,

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Speaker 1: you place a needle in the grooves, there's just one

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Speaker 1: path that it is. Essentially, I guess it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the distinction between a labyrinth and a maze. If

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Speaker 1: you if you, if you have if you make that distinction,

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Speaker 1: Like a labyrinth, there's only one way through. It twists

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Speaker 1: and turns, but you can't get lost because there there

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Speaker 1: are no dead ends. It is a journey through complexity

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Speaker 1: from point A to point B. A maze, however, can

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Speaker 1: be different. A maze can have different paths through the complexity.

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Speaker 1: A maze can have dead ends, it can have traps,

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Speaker 1: it can have dragons and trolls and so forth, if you,

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Speaker 1: if you want, and based on a lot of what

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Speaker 1: I ended up reading here, and based on what I

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Speaker 1: think we're gonna be discussing here, it does seem to

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Speaker 1: me like actually vinyl records are more like this maze.

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Speaker 1: There there's more. There is sometimes more than one path

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Speaker 1: through the record, the.

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Speaker 3: Good ones, I would say, the average record. I think

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Speaker 3: you're correct, there is a very deliberate path. Always starts

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Speaker 3: in the same place out at the edge of the record,

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Speaker 3: always ends at the same place, which is the inside

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Speaker 3: of the record. I think that's that's the most common route.

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Speaker 3: But there there are many examples of people trying new things,

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Speaker 3: people going different routes with that.

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Speaker 1: And this is this is so just counter to like

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Speaker 1: the tape culture, the DVD culture, and then the subsequent

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Speaker 1: digital media culture that that that I most have most

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Speaker 1: of my experience with. Like there there was there. We'll

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Speaker 1: get into some examples. Yeah, you have things like hidden

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Speaker 1: tracks with with CDs and so forth, But this is

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Speaker 1: a whole different scenario. This is like the it's like

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Speaker 1: the record as puzzle box, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And it's fun where you can hide these things.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I've I've manufactured a lot of records

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Speaker 3: on my own. In particular, I I do what's called

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Speaker 3: lay the embossed records. And so here's here's a fascinating

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Speaker 3: thing I have personally done, which I think is really cool.

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Speaker 3: So on a compact disc. Okay, Uh, the data is

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Speaker 3: written from the inside, you know, toward towards the center

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Speaker 3: to the outside. Vinyl is the opposite that the information

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Speaker 3: is on the outside going inside. So usually on a

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Speaker 3: CD there will be some blank space because there's like

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Speaker 3: eighty something minutes of space on a compact disc. If

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Speaker 3: you're whatever you're doing doesn't use up that much space,

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Speaker 3: you have this extra room on the end. So what

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Speaker 3: I've done, I have flipped a compact disc upside down

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Speaker 3: and put a song from a vinyl you know, embossing

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Speaker 3: needle onto the underside of the CD. And now not

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Speaker 3: only is that a CD that can be played in

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Speaker 3: a CD player, but if you flip it upside down

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Speaker 3: and put on a record player, you can play a

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Speaker 3: song on the underside of the CD itself. So like fun,

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Speaker 3: things like that you can do with vinyl, and it's

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Speaker 3: just not it's you know that fun isn't there in

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Speaker 3: most of the other mediums.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's get into some specific examples here,

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Speaker 1: and for this I'm going to go back to an

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Speaker 1: article that I referenced in the first episode that we did.

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Speaker 1: This is by Jonathan Vinyl. Darryl Griffin Stuart Cunningham in

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen's Easter eggs Hidden tracks and Messages in Musical Mediums,

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Speaker 1: and they write that there are three primary ways that

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Speaker 1: records allow for hidden information. The first is something called

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Speaker 1: locked grooves. So these are grooves which cause the turntable

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Speaker 1: to play an endless loop. And I guess I get

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Speaker 1: you'll have to maybe help me make sense of this.

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Speaker 1: But is it like if the needle enters this particular groove,

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Speaker 1: it will just go on forever in a circle.

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Speaker 3: I have a record here next to me. Coincidentally, I'll

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Speaker 3: just show you literally on it. Sorry, I won't be

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Speaker 3: able to show you because this is a audio medium,

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Speaker 3: but I'm pointing it out to Robert. All right, So Robert,

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Speaker 3: you see this record in front of you. The song

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Speaker 3: plays starting here at the outside, and then it moves

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Speaker 3: to the inside. Like I was saying, now, when the

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Speaker 3: needle gets past the songs, the record needs to stop it.

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Speaker 3: He needs to stop the needle from just running into

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Speaker 3: the paper label or anything like that. So right here,

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Speaker 3: right next to the label, like basically a big circle

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Speaker 3: going around the paper label center of a record, that

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Speaker 3: is where the traditional locked groove is. There's no sound

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Speaker 3: on it. It's just instead of a spiral, because that's

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Speaker 3: basically what a groove is. It's a very elaborate, very

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Speaker 3: dense spiral, you know, containing different grooves and therefore vibrations

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Speaker 3: and sound. The very very bottom of that spiral, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't still end as a spiral. It ends as a

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Speaker 3: solid circle. That way, the needle when it's finished will

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Speaker 3: more or less stay still. It'll just stay at that

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Speaker 3: central point and it won't cut into the label or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So if I'm, for instance, if I'm watching a film

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Speaker 1: in which a record has finish, this is my main

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Speaker 1: experience of this. In a movie, if a record is

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Speaker 1: finished playing, sometimes it'll just be that chunk kind of

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Speaker 1: sound that's the locked groove at the end of the record.

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Speaker 3: Yes, although most locked grooves wouldn't make any sound at all,

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Speaker 3: but yes, correct, that kind of like stereotypical loop down

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Speaker 3: there at the end.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well, the authors of this paper, they point out, quote,

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Speaker 1: most records will only contain a silent locked groove to

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Speaker 1: prevent damage to the needle when it reaches the end

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Speaker 1: of a side. Like you explained, the presence of a

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Speaker 1: locked groove that contains music would be difficult to detect

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Speaker 1: without prior knowledge or careful visual inspection of the grooves. Therefore,

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Speaker 1: a music containing locked groove has a good chance of

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Speaker 1: surprising the listener during the performance of the recording.

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Speaker 3: That's true. If you're looking at it from the outside,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't look any different, just just like for the

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Speaker 3: most part, if you're looking at grooves on a record,

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Speaker 3: you can't determine what's on them. Actually you can if

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Speaker 3: you have very very talented eyes. Eventually you can tell

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Speaker 3: what the silence looks like. But that's that's that's just

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Speaker 3: experts only. That's not the average person at all.

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Speaker 1: The prime example that they mentioned in the paper of

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Speaker 1: this is of having music in the locked groove. Bring

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Speaker 1: back to the Beatles a Day in the Life from

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart Hearts called Band. This song enters

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Speaker 1: a locked groove at the end of the song, a

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Speaker 1: locked groove that contains music. And I mean, thinking back

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Speaker 1: on the on the song, I mean I know where

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Speaker 1: this is occurring, but I only have experience with like

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Speaker 1: the CD version of this, right, I had this album

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Speaker 1: on CD when I was I think in high school.

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Speaker 1: But if you were playing the record, that final tone

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Speaker 1: of the song potentially goes on forever, is that right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, as long as you don't lift it, because yeah,

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Speaker 3: like I was saying, that central locked groove, it's there's

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Speaker 3: no data there. It's silent, there's no sound. It's just

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Speaker 3: like you're saying, like, chunk chunk, chunk chunk, it's just

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Speaker 3: moving in a circle. But there's no rule that says

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Speaker 3: you can't put some noise on those grooves. Why not?

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Speaker 3: You know? Why not have that circle be a loop

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Speaker 3: of audio? Why not?

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Speaker 1: And have you experimented with this in creating records?

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Speaker 3: I have many times. It's fun like why wouldn't you?

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: So, most importantly, something to keep in mind when you're

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Speaker 3: doing this is that it's actually a pretty small window

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Speaker 3: to create that loop. So a typical record rotates at

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Speaker 3: thirty three and a third revolutions per minute Summer forty five,

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Speaker 3: but that's a that's usually for singles. So yeah, thirty

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Speaker 3: three and a third revolutions per minute, which means that

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Speaker 3: a single rotation of the record, one needle going all

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Speaker 3: the way around is one point eight seconds. So that's

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Speaker 3: how long your loop has to be. One point eight seconds,

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Speaker 3: no more, no less. So, so here's an example of

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Speaker 3: one I've done. I did one where it was called

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Speaker 3: it was a series called skip records, where what I

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Speaker 3: did was oh, that's actually another good, great example. If

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Speaker 3: you ever are listening to a record that's damaged and

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Speaker 3: the record starts skipping, it's always the same duration. It's

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Speaker 3: always one point eight seconds, because that same fragment is

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Speaker 3: going to be playing again and again and again. That's

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Speaker 3: why you can actually tell if someone is faking a

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Speaker 3: skipping record, because it'll be longer or shorter than that

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Speaker 3: quick just like zip it, dip it deep up, zip it,

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Speaker 3: dip it deep up. It's that is that one point

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Speaker 3: eight second loop. And in fact, when when I am

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Speaker 3: manufacturing records, that's the final step before I finish a record.

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Speaker 3: Is so, if you can picture it in your mind,

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Speaker 3: there is basically an arm that has a cutting needle.

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Speaker 3: Usually it's a sapphire or a ruby, and it's pressing

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Speaker 3: into the the I use use polycarbonate. It's pressing into

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Speaker 3: the polycarbonate and it's moving from left to right on

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Speaker 3: like a spiral arm. Basically, what you do is when

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Speaker 3: you're done recording, is you stop that arm for moving

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Speaker 3: left or right then you go one one thousand, two

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Speaker 3: one thousand, and then you lift it up. And what

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Speaker 3: you're doing by by stopping the movement is you're ending

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Speaker 3: that spiral in a single place and you wait one

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Speaker 3: one thousand and two one thousand for it to complete

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Speaker 3: that circle and end that loop. But if you are

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Speaker 3: still playing audio when you do that one one thousand

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Speaker 3: and two one thousand, what you're doing is still putting data,

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Speaker 3: putting information, putting sound into that loop, and you can

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Speaker 3: make a go forever. So, like I was saying, I

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Speaker 3: had a series called Skip Records where my whole point

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Speaker 3: was I wanted it to sound like a record was

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Speaker 3: just skipping for five minutes straight. Don't ask me why

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Speaker 3: it's art, you know it's fun. And uh so I

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Speaker 3: did this multiple times. And the fun part is is

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Speaker 3: that I on these records, I always ensured that the

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Speaker 3: final groove was always a locked groove. Therefore potentially that

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Speaker 3: these records loop forever, that there is no end to

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Speaker 3: this record and it can just play until your record

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Speaker 3: player breaks or until til there's a power outage. It's

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Speaker 3: just it's a it's a it's a forever equation.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And you have favorite examples of this from from

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Speaker 1: from other records, from from bands and so forth.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot, And actually it's it's fun to me because,

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Speaker 3: like you said, you usually don't know when it's going

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Speaker 3: to happen. So for me, if I put on a

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Speaker 3: record and it's playing and it ends up in a

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Speaker 3: locked groove and you've never heard this record before, you

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Speaker 3: might be off on the other side, reading or playing

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Speaker 3: a video game or doing the dishes, who knows, and

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Speaker 3: you notice that, like, wow, it's been doing this one

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Speaker 3: tone for like forty five minutes. That's not even possible

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Speaker 3: on a record, Like there's not that much room. What

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Speaker 3: is happening? And you walk over and you're like, ah,

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Speaker 3: this record's got a locked groove. This happened to me

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Speaker 3: once on one of my favorite records, And this is

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Speaker 3: my favorite example of this. The nineteen ninety seven Godspeed

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Speaker 3: You Black Emperor album F Sharp A sharp Infinity. The

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Speaker 3: final track Bleak Uncertain Beautiful, It ends on a locked

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Speaker 3: groove playing the final two notes of the song, and

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Speaker 3: those last two notes are F sharp and A sharp,

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Speaker 3: and by being un a locked groove, they play for infinity,

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I still remember the first time I played

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Speaker 3: that record and when that needle hit that final moment,

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Speaker 3: it just kept going and going and going, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, this is wonder like it took me. You know,

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Speaker 3: I had to be active. I had I had to

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Speaker 3: realize that something was not right, investigate and realize what

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Speaker 3: they had done to me and my time. It's it's

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Speaker 3: it's a fun practice, you know.

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Speaker 1: Do you maybe this doesn't occur, but do you. Are

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Speaker 1: you ever in a position where someone comes up to

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Speaker 1: you and says like, I don't know anything about records,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to get into records now. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: start buying vinyl, And then do you have to warn them? Like, look,

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Speaker 1: people have laid traps for you.

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Speaker 3: The main one which I actually will warn people about

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Speaker 3: because these things were discussing a lucked groove doesn't happen

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Speaker 3: that often, So some other techniques were about to discuss

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Speaker 3: don't happen that often. It's it's it's it's pretty rare,

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Speaker 3: and they're and they're extra cool because of it. One

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Speaker 3: that is extremely common that actually happens all the time,

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Speaker 3: not just to others but to me as well, is

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Speaker 3: the difference between a thirty three and a third record

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Speaker 3: and a forty five record, because forty five rpm records,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you everyone would understand this. A forty five

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Speaker 3: rpm it's spinning faster, so therefore the data that's put

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Speaker 3: onto it, the vibrations, the grooves are at a different speed,

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Speaker 3: you know. So if you put on a forty five

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Speaker 3: rpm record at thirty three and a third, it's extremely

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Speaker 3: slowed down. So you might have a completely incorrect view

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Speaker 3: of a song if you don't pay attention to what

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Speaker 3: the speed is. And there's audio file pressings of records

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Speaker 3: where they'll have full twelve inch records that are printed

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Speaker 3: at forty five rpm because there's more room for the

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Speaker 3: grooves so they can sound better, blah blah blah, and

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Speaker 3: so you just have to know. You have to hopefully

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Speaker 3: the artist has labeled the record this is a forty

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Speaker 3: five rpm, or you just have to listen to and go,

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Speaker 3: that's not right. Try it at thirty three and a third,

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Speaker 3: Try it at forty five and go, okay, that's right.

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Speaker 3: But sometimes you won't know. Sometimes they won't label it

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Speaker 3: and they won't tell you, so you just have to

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Speaker 3: make your best guess. Like like Ram for example, used

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Speaker 3: to never label the sides of their records, Like there

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Speaker 3: was no side A side B. It was just, hey,

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Speaker 3: you listen to one and they listen to the other.

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Speaker 3: I'm not telling you which is which. And not until

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Speaker 3: CDs came around did they have to eventually decide and

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Speaker 3: put an actual track order for you. And there were

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Speaker 3: a couple that I learned I had the wrong order, like,

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Speaker 3: for example, I always listened to murmur by Ram side

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Speaker 3: B first, then side A, but I had no way

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Speaker 3: of knowing that until I bought a CD of it.

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Speaker 1: Wow, all right, we'll get back to track ordering in

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Speaker 1: a bit. There's gonna be more on that. But getting

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Speaker 1: back to the three main methods of hiding stuff in

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Speaker 1: the grooves here from that twenty fourteen paper, the next

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Speaker 1: one they mentioned is inverse grooves. So this, if I'm

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Speaker 1: understanding this correctly, it is a record that it's meant

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Speaker 1: to be played backwards. If you play it forwards, you

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Speaker 1: are playing it backwards. Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: Yes, they think about it this way, as we were discussing.

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Speaker 3: When you're playing a record, you start the needle at

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Speaker 3: the rim and you press play and it continues until

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Speaker 3: it hits the label. That's the traditional way record plays.

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Speaker 3: The grooves are set up that way, the spiral leading

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Speaker 3: down to the drain, you know, that's the way it goes.

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Speaker 3: These are the other way around. You are supposed to

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Speaker 3: start the needle in the middle and then it plays

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Speaker 3: out to the edge, almost like manga style. It's like,

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Speaker 3: oh mm, start at the other end, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So they mentioned a couple of examples of this.

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Speaker 1: One is a this one. I don't know, were you

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Speaker 1: familiar with this particular group. This is a Nomes track

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Speaker 1: Goarf Beat, one from the Praxis USAEP and it includes

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Speaker 1: the instructions to play it. One must place the needle

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Speaker 1: at the point where you would expect the track to end.

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Speaker 1: And then they also mentioned Megadeth's single for Sweating Bullets,

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Speaker 1: which was an inverse groove pressing and it had a

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Speaker 1: warning on the packaging that said quote paranoid pressing on

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Speaker 1: blue vinyl. Warning, do not attempt to play this record

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Speaker 1: in the conventional manner. Both sides reverse play from the

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Speaker 1: inside groove outwards.

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Speaker 3: It makes sense because I bet the average person they

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Speaker 3: would just assume their record was broken, you know, because

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Speaker 3: if you did put it the correct place and pressed forward.

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Speaker 3: Best case scenario you're getting it to play backwards. More

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Speaker 3: probable is that because that is starting with the locked groove,

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Speaker 3: it won't be able to enter into that spiral. So

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Speaker 3: it'll just sit there and you'll just hear nothing or

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Speaker 3: maybe a little little skipping or some static. But another

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Speaker 3: great example of this this is found on Jack White's

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Speaker 3: twenty fourteen solo album Lazaretto. Jack White and his record

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Speaker 3: label Third Man Records are known for doing all kinds

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Speaker 3: of fun gimmicky things, like they have like liquid core records.

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Speaker 3: They have records where like there'll be a forty five

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Speaker 3: inch record hidden inside of a twelve inch you have

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Speaker 3: to like cut open the record to pull out another record. Like,

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Speaker 3: He's done a lot of really fun, interesting things. He

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Speaker 3: is the Willy Wonka of record manufacturers, and I really

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Speaker 3: admire him for that. For his twenty fourteen album Lazaretto,

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Speaker 3: he just wanted to put it all in one record.

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Speaker 3: He wanted to be all the gimmicks all at once.

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Speaker 3: So he called this version of Lazaretto the Ultra LP

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Speaker 3: And it's got so many fun gimmicks and innovations that

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Speaker 3: we would need literally an entire episode just to break

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Speaker 3: them down. But you could. You can find copies of

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Speaker 3: it to see online. I believe there's also a YouTube

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Speaker 3: video which I sent you, Robert, which has Jack White

385
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Speaker 3: just pointing out every single wacky gimmick of this one

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Speaker 3: single record. But on side one of this record, it

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Speaker 3: does play backwards like you're saying you have to start

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Speaker 3: the new needle by the label, and it plays out

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Speaker 3: to the rim. And I wonder how many people just

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Speaker 3: couldn't figure that out, because, you know, I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of people who just in life,

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Speaker 3: they aren't reading instructions. Kind of people, you know, like

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Speaker 3: if they get a piece of furniture from Ikia, they're

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Speaker 3: not going to read the instructions, They're just going to

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Speaker 3: put it together. And I'm sure buying a record, you

396
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 3: don't even assume that there will be instructions, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether it was Megadeth with Sweating Bullets or whether it's

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Speaker 3: Jack White with Lazaretto, why would there be instructions? So

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Speaker 3: you just play it and you're confused why it's not working.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this Lazaretto album, when you initially mentioned it to

401
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 1: me and our chat, you listed all the gimmicks it had,

402
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Speaker 1: and I didn't even understand all of them. It seems

403
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Speaker 1: like it makes me think of the book House of Leaves.

404
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 1: This feels like it it's like the House of Leaves

405
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Speaker 1: of vinyl records.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and it was very popular, I believe. I

407
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Speaker 3: know it was the best selling record at the time,

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Speaker 3: but I think it like for the year. It was

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Speaker 3: like the best selling vinyl record for that year.

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Speaker 1: All right, moving on to the next example that they

411
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Speaker 1: give in this paper, double grooves or parallel grooves quote

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00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: records where two grooves run simultaneously through a record, causing

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Speaker 1: the needle to play different material depending where it is

414
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 1: initially placed. This is apparently sometimes referred to as a

415
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Speaker 1: third side.

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00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. I've also heard these called three sided records. And yeah,

417
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 3: there are a few names for this, but these are

418
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 3: these are much more rare. These are fascinating.

419
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna have to keep explaining this one to me.

420
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: The couple of examples that they mention, there's the Monty

421
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: Python matching tie and handkerchief from nineteen seventy three, which

422
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: the packaging is pretty neat on this because the album

423
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: is packaged to look like you're buying a matching tie

424
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Speaker 1: and handkerchief, which is fun. But side too has two

425
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: different grooves, so depending on where you place the needle,

426
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 1: you'll get different material.

427
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 3: Now I have firsthand experience because I own this record,

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Speaker 3: and it's amazing. Here's the best part I can say

429
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Speaker 3: about this. This one entirely worked on me because I

430
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Speaker 3: didn't even know that there was a hidden third side

431
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 3: until I read about it later and had to investigate

432
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 3: for myself. That's not printed on the record anywhere that

433
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 3: there's hidden music or I guess hidden comedy on this record.

434
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,719
Speaker 3: So here's here's I think their goal, which was so

435
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 3: all records sideday, side B, the side with two parallel grooves.

436
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 3: What's happening is, yeah, I guess picture that spiral again,

437
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 3: But there are two completely different lines to that spiral

438
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 3: right next to each other, going all the way down

439
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 3: to that center. So therefore, when you're putting that needle

440
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: in that groove, you have basically a fifty to fifty

441
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 3: chance are you going to be in the one groove

442
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 3: or the groove right next to it? That never match up.

443
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 3: So here's the fun. The fun part is that you

444
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 3: you listen to Side AY, everything suns normal. You turn

445
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: it over, you put on side B, you listen to it,

446
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: everything's normal, and then you put put away your record.

447
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: Next month, you want to listen to it again. Sideay,

448
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 3: everything's normal, put it on side B. Wait, this isn't

449
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 3: the side B I've heard before. What's happening? And so

450
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 3: you listen to it. You're like, I swear I heard

451
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: this differently before. But okay, whatever, whatever, whatever, you put

452
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 3: it aside, pull it out, put it on again. Sometimes

453
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 3: sidday's normal. Side B. It's that first side again. You're like, wait, wait, wait,

454
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 3: I swear last time this joke was on there, or

455
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 3: maybe you're like talking to your friends, You're like, hey,

456
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 3: what about that one part?

457
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: You know?

458
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 3: Did you love track three? Like that's not track three?

459
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: It's like no, no, it definitely is. Come over to

460
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 3: my house, I'll play it for you. You put it on

461
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: and it plays the wrong side like no, no, no,

462
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 3: I swear like it's like a fun It seems like

463
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 3: it's almost gaslighting you. You know, it's it's a very

464
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 3: fun gimmick.

465
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: Now is this? I'm reminded of a trophy encounter in

466
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: a lot of like carror and mystery TV shows and

467
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: short stories where someone realizes that there's a hidden compartment

468
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: in a room based on the fact that this room

469
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: is smaller than the adjoining room.

470
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 3: Yes, is that?

471
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: Would that be something? With this scenario, like if you

472
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: were really on the lookout for this sort of trick,

473
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: would you notice that, like one side of the record

474
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 1: seem shorter than the other.

475
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 3: You would have to be really on your toes, because

476
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 3: the side of of a typical twelve inch record can

477
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 3: be anywhere from like ten minutes to thirty minutes, depending

478
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 3: upon how closely you put those grooves together. But yes,

479
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: you would be able to notice if you paid very

480
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 3: close attention to how much space was being taken up

481
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: by the grooves, because it's only playing half of those

482
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: grooves when it's going going down the line playing all

483
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 3: the audio.

484
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: So like a physical investigation would be needed. It wouldn't

485
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: just be like, well, that side felt this long and

486
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: this one feels different or something.

487
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 3: It'd be possible, but yeah, yeah, you would have to

488
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 3: be paying a lot of attention. And for me, I

489
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 3: needed someone to tell me. I needed someone to tell

490
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 3: me that a record in my collection had three sides

491
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: before I realized it.

492
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: The other example that they bring up in the paper

493
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: is mister Bungle's disco Volante from nineteen ninety five, in

494
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: which hidden grooves contain the song's secret song and songs

495
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: by quote the Secret Chief's Trio. And then they also

496
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: mentioned that secret song is said to be notoriously difficult

497
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: to find with the needle.

498
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 3: That's another part that you can do on purpose. So,

499
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: for example, I believe on the matching the Monty Python record,

500
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: it's more or less a fifty to fifty because just

501
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 3: when you're creating those grooves, you just make the openings,

502
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: you know, the same size. But let's say, for example,

503
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: you want that second song to really be a secret well,

504
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: then you don't create an opening for it. You have

505
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: it exist entirely cut off from that primary groove and

506
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 3: it can just live there and no one will ever

507
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: find out unless they deliberately not start the record at

508
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 3: the beginning, but just trial and error, just kind of

509
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 3: drop it in the middle of the record, hoping that

510
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 3: it lands on the correct groove that they want to find.

511
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: Wow. So technically you could have situations where there could

512
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: be albums out there with secret grooves with secret information

513
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: in them that have never been discovered. That Nicholas Cage

514
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: has not his character in a film or Tom Hanks's

515
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: character in a film has not put on the record

516
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: to discover yet.

517
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: Very possible, now, I would say, in all likelihood, depending

518
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: upon the many ways people start records. I'm sure there's

519
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 3: a large percentage of the world that doesn't carefully place

520
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 3: the needle at the beginning of each record before they start.

521
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 3: They do just PLoP it on wherever, So I bet

522
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: it would be found pretty quickly, I would assume, just

523
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 3: based on people's sloppy handling of their record needles.

524
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: So do you have any other fun examples of double grooves,

525
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: parallel grooves, and third sides.

526
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: There's a couple I've heard of, but I've never seen this.

527
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: This is a great one that I would love to

528
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: see this in person someday, but I've only read about it.

529
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 3: It's a horse racing board game. So what you do

530
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 3: is everyone picks their horses, you know, standard like typical

531
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: you know betting forms, and you read a little description

532
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: about which horse is what and blah blah blah, and

533
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: then you start the record, which contains all the sound

534
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 3: effects of you know, being at the downs and all that,

535
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 3: and there's an announcer calling the horse race However, the

536
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: record has multiple parallel grooves, each with a different result,

537
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 3: so you never know which horse is actually going to

538
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 3: be the winner when you put that groove on. So

539
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 3: it's almost like a choose your own adventure, except you

540
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 3: don't get a choice, you know.

541
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Yeah, and yeah. I'd love to hear from

542
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: anyone out there who knows of other examples of this,

543
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: because it seems like it's the sort of sort of

544
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: gimmick that that people you would have had a lot

545
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: of fun with, like I don't know, some sort of

546
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: narrative use of it, with with with some sort of

547
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: a storytelling technique.

548
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 3: You know, kind of like Clue the movie where you

549
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 3: watch it and it's got like the multiple endings kind

550
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 3: of like that, and that'd be fun. Here's one more example,

551
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 3: because we've already mentioned it, going back again to the

552
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: Ultra LP version of Jack Whites Lazaretto. Like I said,

553
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 3: he's got a million gimmicks on this one, he has

554
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: a version of parallel grooves that I've never seen before.

555
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 3: Track one on side B, it's a song called just

556
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 3: One Drink. It has two completely different intros to the

557
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: song that are parallel grooves, but they both feed in

558
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 3: to the to the primary groove again, so the rest

559
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: of the record plays completely normal. So it's it's it

560
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: starts off as two spirals and then they both funnel

561
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 3: into the one standard spiral. So it's wow. And once again,

562
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: it's just luck. When you put on that needle for

563
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 3: the first time, it's just a chance of am I

564
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: going to play the Like the harder version of the

565
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: intro or the softer, more acoustic version of the intro

566
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: is just fifty to fifty who knows what you're gonna get?

567
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 3: And man, that's fun. Like you can't get that with

568
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 3: other mediums.

569
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the CD type culture we never had

570
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: anything like that. We'll get into some examples of what

571
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: we did have, but they didn't create this kind of

572
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: level of almost quantum uncertainty, like what will happen when

573
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: I start playing this song? I mean, to a certain extent,

574
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: that mystery is there when you play a new album

575
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: for the first time, but the idea that subsequent returns

576
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: to that album that there could be not just things

577
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: that were subjectively different, but objectively different things about the

578
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: listening experience.

579
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, all.

580
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: Right, Well, let's get into the CD age A little bit,

581
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: and let's eventually get into the digital realm as well.

582
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about so called hidden tracks,

583
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: secret tracks. Uh, this is this is an area that

584
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: I have more familiarity with because again I was I

585
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: was more of a CD guy than certainly than than

586
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: than anything like the CDs were. This was the right

587
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: period where I really got into like choosing my own

588
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: musical interest, choosing the bands that I wanted to devote

589
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: time to. And then also I guess at the time too,

590
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: it's like CDs were starting to get a little pricey,

591
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: so whatever you bought like this was a deliberate choice.

592
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: Not only is this an album you wanted to listen to,

593
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: you would you would make sure you liked it, or

594
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: you would really give it a chance, because this was

595
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: going to be your album for the you know, for

596
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: a week or two maybe more, until you could conceivably

597
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: buy another album. So, you know, we get into this

598
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: realm of secret tracks, and I guess the thing about

599
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: secret and hidden tracks is they ultimately really weren't that

600
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: well hidden. I mean, certainly nothing compared to vinyl examples

601
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: we've discussed, right right.

602
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 3: I mean I did enjoy sometimes and I think This

603
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 3: is pretty rare when there was literally a hidden disc

604
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: inside the CD packaging. That was fun when that would

605
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: happen on occasion, but for the most part it was yeah,

606
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 3: you'll explain. For the most part, it was pretty straightforward

607
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 3: to have some hidden songs.

608
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like the main examples that come to my mind

609
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: are like Tools Undertow and the Nine Inch Nails EP Broken.

610
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: The versions that I had just had a bunch of

611
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: like extra blank tracks and then eventually the tracks containing

612
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: the extra songs. And I didn't know about this tool.

613
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: I was just researching it again for this episode. But

614
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: apparently with Nine Inch Nails, the original CD pressing and

615
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: the vinyl pressing of Broken had an extra smaller disc

616
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: that had the bonus tracks on them.

617
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: That was a very brief window when Yeah, there were

618
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 3: like these little mini CDs that in theory could play

619
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: in any CD player, Like in fact, if you happen

620
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: to have a CD player at home, especially when the

621
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: kind of with like a tray, you pop it open

622
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: and you'll notice that there's actually a smaller imprint inside

623
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 3: where the bigger imprint is. That's for these smaller CDs,

624
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 3: but that medium lasted like a blink of an Eye.

625
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 3: I think they were more popular in somewhere in Asia.

626
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: I want to say Japan, that they lasted longer, but yeah, no,

627
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: they didn't last here very long at all.

628
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: I remember, though, thinking that this was clever and cool,

629
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 1: and there was this kind of idea that it's like, yeah,

630
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: nine inch nails, they're kind of they're sticking it to

631
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: the man. They have these and they're they're then they're

632
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: delivering bonus content to us the fans that the clear

633
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: the record labels didn't want this on here, but they said, no,

634
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: we insist. We're going to hide it at the end

635
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: where the inspectors won't find it first.

636
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: Right, Hey, hey, why not? I like that narrative. I

637
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 3: like picturing, you know, a Trent Reznor with these little

638
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: mini CDs hiding at the factory, just slipping them into

639
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: each and every package.

640
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it wouldn't be entirely out of carre.

641
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: There were the later story I figure what album this was,

642
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: but the idea that, like some of the tracks were

643
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: leaked to the media by leaving a USB in a

644
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: bathroom at a concert or something.

645
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: Right, right, Yeah, that's all fun stuff.

646
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: Now, another example for the secret track. Another way the

647
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: secret track or hidden track was often utilized would be

648
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: just have a big long gap after the final listed

649
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: track on the album, and then eventually a hidden track

650
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: starts playing. And of course the reverse of that is,

651
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: once you know it's there, if you want to listen

652
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: to the hidden track, you just fast forward through the

653
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: final track to get to that content.

654
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 3: It's funny too, because all of these examples, they're all

655
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 3: so tied to the CD itself. In fact, do you

656
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: remember negative time on a CD player?

657
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to remember what. I had one album

658
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: in particular that did this, but I can't recall what.

659
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: It was a big thing that would happen. This is

660
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: like not during the early days of CDs, but more

661
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: towards the later days, when basically a CD was really

662
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 3: kind of being pushed to its limits of like what

663
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: it could contain and maybe getting a bit more secretive,

664
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: getting a bit weirder with it. If there was like

665
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 3: a bit of audio that existed kind of between tracks,

666
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: whether it be like maybe a bit of a skit

667
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 3: or an intro, or just sort of like an in

668
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 3: the studio outtake or something when it was playing, and

669
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 3: you could watch the time on the little the digital readout,

670
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 3: it would be like, you know, five seconds, six seconds,

671
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 3: seven seconds, negative six seconds, negative five seconds, negative four seconds,

672
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: and in that negative space would be this additional noise,

673
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 3: little skit, little outtake, whatever, little intro. So that way,

674
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 3: when you skipped to the final to like the real song,

675
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: it would start where the song starts. But if you

676
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 3: listen to the album all the way through, this negative

677
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: space would just give a bit more context, a bit

678
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 3: more padding, a bit more like continuity, you know. And

679
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: I thought that was pretty fun. But also when we

680
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: reached the age of digitizing our CDs and putting them

681
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 3: onto to you know, our MP three players and whatever, oh,

682
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 3: that became a headache.

683
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 1: Now I don't even know how to classify this one.

684
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: This one's not an example that was brought up in

685
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: the paper, but an album that I had. And this

686
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: is a great album that the Kaias album from nineteen

687
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: ninety four, Welcome to Sky Valley comes to mind. This

688
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: one had this weird structure where it does have a

689
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: hidden track at the end, which is real dumb. But

690
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: it also has ten tracks overall. The first that the

691
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: I mean ten songs overall. The first three songs are

692
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: all one track, the next three songs are all one track,

693
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: and the last four songs are all one track. And

694
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: I'm not really clear on why they did this, but

695
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: I remember being more annoyed by it than anything, because

696
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: sometimes you want to listen to an album all the

697
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 1: way through, but sometimes you just want to hear Demon Cleaner,

698
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: which is a really great track off of that album,

699
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: a really great song off of that album, but it's

700
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: the third song in track number two. It's a little

701
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: hard to get to if you just want that.

702
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 3: I can't speak to this specific example, but I can

703
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: give this example. Just recently. I had Joe on my podcast,

704
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: Rusty Needle's Record Club, and we did the self titled

705
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 3: Black Sabbath album, and on it, the American version combined

706
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 3: a bunch of the tracks into fewer tracks. So like

707
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: the original European version, let's say, had ten tracks, the

708
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 3: American version had like six tracks. The albums were more

709
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 3: or less identical. They swapped out one song, but that's

710
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 3: beside the point. More or less identical, just far fewer tracks.

711
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 3: And when you look it up, like why did this happen?

712
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 3: It was just a record label thing, They're like, oh,

713
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 3: we were paying them by the track, so if we

714
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 3: give them fewer tracks, we don't have to pay them

715
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 3: as many residuals, you know. And what's funny is like

716
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: now the opposite is true. Like, for example, let's go

717
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: back to the idea of like a hidden track inside

718
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: of a CD where it used to be. Let's say

719
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: let's say there are ten tracks on the album and

720
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 3: one hidden bonus track, so that tenth track would be

721
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 3: a song, long long gap, and then another song, So

722
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 3: eleven songs, ten physical tracks. In today's modern streaming age, basically,

723
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 3: they've gotten they've they've more or less gotten rid of that.

724
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 3: Now whenever I see something that used to have a

725
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 3: hidden track, it's just chopped off and turned into a

726
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 3: bonus track, because the opposite is true now. Now the

727
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 3: record label gets paid by these streaming services for every

728
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 3: single individual track, so they want as many tracks as possible.

729
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 3: If they can, they'll cut up into a hundred tracks.

730
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: You know.

731
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: And it's just interesting, like the opposite is true of

732
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 3: the record label wanting more money. They used to force

733
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 3: you to put it in as few tracks as possible,

734
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: and now they're forcing you to cut it into as

735
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: many tracks as possible, and it's just you know, it's

736
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 3: going to keep flip flopping forever until I don't know,

737
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: until business people don't want money, so beats me.

738
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there are plenty of examples that you can

739
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: point to where if nothing else they do the whole

740
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: just throw an extra hidden song there at the end,

741
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 1: after some blank, blank space, you know, a little quiet

742
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: and and something else pops up. And sometimes it was

743
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: clearly they were trying to be cheeky, and maybe it

744
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 1: was some sort of a track that was a little

745
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 1: cruider or a little little dumber or supposed to be cryptic.

746
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: And other times it was like, I think I had

747
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: a Natalie Merchant album that just had a really neat

748
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: folk song at the very end of things, and there's

749
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: not really a neat I don't know if there's any

750
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: logical reason to have this be a hidden track, but

751
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: it was. It was there hidden. But yeah, nowadays you

752
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: pull up these same albums and I guess sometimes they're

753
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: still going to keep that together, but a lot of

754
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: times the hidden track is just going to be listed there. Right.

755
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 3: Look, I'm not working for Jack Whites. I'm not getting

756
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: paid for every time I mentioned the Lazaretto Ultra LP.

757
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 3: But I'm gonna bring it up one more time because

758
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 3: get this. These are a couple of examples of hidden

759
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 3: tracks that blow my mind. He hid tracks underneath the

760
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 3: paper labels on the record itself, and also he put

761
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 3: them with two different speeds revolutions per minute than the

762
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 3: record itself. The record itself is thirty three and a third.

763
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: Underneath one paper label, it's seventy eight RPM, and then

764
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: underneath the other one is forty five. So on this

765
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 3: one record it has three different RPMs. It's wild and

766
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: the way it works basically is that he did imprint

767
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 3: a song on traditional grooves under in that center space

768
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: that's reserved for the label, and then when you do

769
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 3: the actual pressing pressing, what happens is that the label

770
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 3: itself just kind of gets sucked into it a little bit,

771
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 3: so the sound quality is not that great. And I

772
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: guess if you really wanted to, you could like remove

773
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 3: the label, you could like tear it off, but you

774
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 3: can it's possible just to play it directly through the label.

775
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: You just place your needle directly on top of that

776
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 3: paper label and it will play the song that's underneath.

777
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness.

778
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: Once again, not an ad for Jack White. I like him,

779
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 3: but he's not paying me.

780
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: All right, Well, there may be some more examples of

781
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: hidden songs and tracks from well, perhaps from vinyl, but

782
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,280
Speaker 1: it certainly maybe some more examples from the CD folks

783
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: can mention, I guess without even getting into it much.

784
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: There also is that late CD period. I guess it's

785
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: kind of late CD period where you also have CDs

786
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,439
Speaker 1: that can be placed inside in your computer's disk drive

787
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: so you can go to some sort of crappy website

788
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: or some sort of like a visual thing that lines

789
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: up with the album. But I don't know if that

790
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: has Jack White come back around to that now.

791
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 3: I think he's mostly an analog guy. I don't think

792
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 3: he is hiding, you know, PC wallpapers on any of

793
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 3: his records yet.

794
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: Now there is another really interesting area that some of

795
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: you may be thinking of already, and this gets into

796
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: the idea of having images hidden, not as a PC wallpaper,

797
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: not as something that's in the liner notes for the

798
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: album or anything like that, but actually in the sound

799
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: data itself. Uh. And the idea here is that, yeah,

800
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: you'll have something in the sound data that if you

801
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: run it through a spectrogram editor and synthesizer, you can

802
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 1: produce an image the image that was encoded as music

803
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: or encoded is sound anyway inside of a musical piece

804
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: or inside of an album.

805
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 3: These are absolutely stunning to me. I I I do

806
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: this stuff every day. And in fact, because you know

807
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: the programs that you use to look at these images,

808
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 3: they're the programs I used to edit these shows.

809
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: You know.

810
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 3: That's that's that's that's just part of my repertoire. And

811
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 3: I have actually looked into creating these myself, and I'm

812
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 3: still in awe even though I know how they do it.

813
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.

814
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: If the most famous example of this I think, or well,

815
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: it's one of the most famous examples, and in some circles,

816
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: the most famous example, and this is the one that's

817
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: mentioned in that paper from from Wineld, Griffiths and Cunningham,

818
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety nine song Window Liquor by Aphex Twin.

819
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: If you run this one particular part of the song

820
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: the sound through this system, you of course get to

821
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: see Richard James, that's Aphex Twin. You get to see

822
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 1: his grinning face.

823
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: It's amazing because first of all, it looks even spookier

824
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 3: than it always looks. You know, Richard D. James is

825
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 3: always doing some kind of spooky thing with his face,

826
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: whether it's turning it into a mask and putting on

827
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 3: a child or whatever. But man, oh man, it's so

828
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 3: fascinating it too, because, like you know, if you think

829
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 3: about these programs, what they're doing is they're showing you,

830
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: you know, the visualization of the audio waves. So the

831
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 3: way you put these images in there is you reverse

832
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 3: engineer it. You create the image first, and then you

833
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 3: basically determine what those sounds would need to be to

834
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: create that image, and then you can just basically put

835
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 3: it in your song and boom, you've got it. But

836
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 3: it's so funny because every example of this I've seen,

837
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 3: it's very obvious that something strange is going on in

838
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: the audio because this is not a typical wave. It's

839
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: a picture of Richard James face.

840
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just a case where oh yeah, that's

841
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: if you play this backward satanic message, like, it's clear

842
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: that something is there, and then when you when you

843
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: run it through, you can see the artist's face or

844
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: in the case of a particular track from Venetian Snares

845
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: that's the moniker of Aaron Funk. There's a picture of

846
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: his cat that one I found very very sweet, of course,

847
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: in part because I wasn't familiar with it. I was

848
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: familiar with the aphex twin example, and when I heard

849
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: there was a Venetian snares when I was like, I

850
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: don't know what this image is going to be, but

851
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: it's it's just a cat.

852
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nice. It's a fun way to do this,

853
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: and I think I particularly like these two. It reminds

854
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 3: me of I've seen people in the olden days when

855
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 3: they were computer programmers in the deep past, not in

856
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 3: the contemporary sense, but the way that you're actually fooling

857
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 3: around with like micro chips, Like that old style of

858
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 3: computer programmer. The computer programers would write little messages to

859
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 3: one another onside the chips when they put them in computers.

860
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: That way.

861
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 3: Years later, you come across something and it has something

862
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 3: written on it that no one would read except another

863
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 3: programmer who is fiddling around with this machine. And from

864
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 3: what I understand, people who write code these days often

865
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: do a similar thing. So I think this kind of

866
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,919
Speaker 3: hidden message in a song very much is like one

867
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 3: audio producer talking to another audio producer going like, hey,

868
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 3: look in this funny and it's like, yeah, it is.

869
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 3: Good job.

870
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: There's at least one more really good example of this,

871
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: and this might be in some sort of This might

872
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: be the most famous example, depending on where you're coming from.

873
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: But the two thousand and seven Nine Inch Nails album

874
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: Year Zero, which which I think is a great album.

875
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: Occasionally play this one agreed today. It has I think

876
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: two different spectrograms. I was only familiar with the first

877
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: one by the spectrogram at the end of the track

878
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: My Violent Heart and it's of like a hand reaching

879
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: down from the sky, which is also a theme of

880
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: the cover for the album.

881
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't imagine how many of these are

882
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 3: unseen in the world, because I think even more so

883
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 3: than oh a hidden song on a record or a

884
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 3: hidden song on a CD, the vast majority of people

885
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 3: will never run their audio through a spectrogram. It's never

886
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: going to happen. So unless you are a person you

887
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 3: know who has that background and you think you hear

888
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 3: something and you happen to upload it in and look

889
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,479
Speaker 3: at it, I bet there's a lot of hidden stuff

890
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: that's never been seen before.

891
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: Now there's one more example that's brought up, and that

892
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: is this idea of black midies, which is not something

893
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: I was familiar with, but it's brought up in this

894
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: paper about Easter eggs and music. And these are apparently

895
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: midi files that contain an absurd amount of data that,

896
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: when played back in a program, can produce patterns when

897
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: they cause the program to fail. And I'm not sure

898
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: I completely understand this one, but it's still interesting. There's

899
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: still some thing about it. Almost sounds like let's take

900
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: the music and like crash it, and in doing so,

901
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: we'll we'll create these visuals.

902
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 3: So the idea of the black midi is pretty interesting

903
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 3: too because it ties into a much older idea, which

904
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 3: is we as human beings, are limited by what we

905
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: can do with our hands. It's difficult for us to

906
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: go beyond what is physically possible. We have two hands

907
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 3: for the most part, ten fingers for the most part.

908
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 3: This is what we can do. Let's say, on a piano.

909
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: A piano can only do what the human being can do.

910
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 3: Maybe you can add another person, but other than that,

911
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 3: we're just human beings. So back in the days when

912
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 3: people first started mechanizing musical instruments, folks started experimenting with this.

913
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 3: One of my favorites. I'm gonna get his name wrong

914
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 3: because I don't think I've ever pronounced it correctly because

915
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 3: I've heard it too many ways. A guy named Conlin

916
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 3: Noncarro con l O n n A n c A

917
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 3: R R O W. He's an experimental musician. And now

918
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 3: one of the things he did, which many call him

919
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 3: the first electronic musician because of this, is he would

920
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 3: create roles for player pianos, you know, those kind of

921
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 3: pianos that play themselves. And he was like, oh, wait

922
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 3: a minute, this isn't a human being, this is a machine.

923
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 3: I can make this thing do whatever I want. So

924
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 3: he would do things that he would program for these

925
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,720
Speaker 3: player pianos that were impossible. You know, too many hands, notes,

926
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 3: playing too quickly in succession, you know all these things.

927
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: A lot of it was really really fast, and it

928
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 3: was just it was such like a fascinating idea of like, oh,

929
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to create music that was meant to replicate

930
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 3: human hands, but I'm going to make it for nobody.

931
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: This is completely imaginary music that nobody could ever play.

932
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: And so his music's really fascinating. I highly recommend it.

933
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 3: Look it up. But that's the same idea behind a

934
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 3: black midi which is, if folks don't know, a MIDI

935
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 3: file is more or less the zeros and ones behind

936
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 3: a digital instrument playing music. It's a kind of music

937
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 3: that's played in most video games, et cetera, et cetera.

938
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 3: And so if you are playing a piano that turns

939
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 3: it into midi data, it's documenting it and you know,

940
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 3: putting all those little pieces in place, so when you

941
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 3: play it back, it plays it back the exact same way.

942
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 3: Same thing. Just like with that idea that Canlin Nakaro

943
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 3: was doing. You just start putting an extra data, things

944
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: that are completely impossible, things that your hands could never do,

945
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: things that there there aren't there isn't enough time, there

946
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 3: is there aren't enough fingers in the world to ever

947
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 3: actually play this. And it gets to such an enormous

948
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 3: degree that it's that it's impossible and it breaks. So

949
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: there's an example of this. I don't know if you

950
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: if you've ever heard about this, but do you know

951
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 3: the song rush E I don't Oh, I'm gonna show

952
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,879
Speaker 3: this to you audience will be right back.

953
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: Whoo. That that was something it's it started off rather

954
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: subtle and kind of pleasant, and then it got really intense.

955
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: I guess to describe this to anyone who hasn't watched

956
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: the video of presentation of this is you have a

957
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: keyboard at the bottom, and you have little blocks falling

958
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like tetris. I guess you have blocks.

959
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: When they reach the bottom, they just play the keys

960
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: that they land on.

961
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 3: A bit like a Guitar Hero too.

962
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, like Guitar Hero. And I guess the

963
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: idea is that early on we're seeing things that are

964
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: very possible with human hands, with a human piano player,

965
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 1: but then it gets increasingly complex to the level where

966
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: no human with even like four arms to play this thing.

967
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 3: No, I mean, and I honestly commend the creator of this.

968
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 3: I believe this one is created by someone named sheet

969
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 3: music Boss. You can find this video online. It's very popular.

970
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 3: It's been memed to death. It's gosh, got many many

971
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 3: millions of views, so check it out if you haven't.

972
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: It is something to see. I really to commend them

973
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: on like the build of this, because it starts off

974
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 3: just like mildly impossible, and then like, wow, this is

975
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: really impossible, and by the time you each the end,

976
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 3: it's ludicrously impossible, like like like like like it's crisscrossing,

977
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 3: it's spelling images, it's like it's it's every key being

978
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 3: played simultaneously, and yet it still sounds pretty good, you know.

979
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just like orders of magnitude though, and complexity

980
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: begin to drop on you. I mean in a way,

981
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, yeah, if Tetris suddenly got like

982
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: like huge leap and difficulty and just now overwhelming, that feels.

983
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 1: I mean it was a little anxious watching and listening

984
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: to it.

985
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 3: So yeah, So this song is called rush E. It's

986
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 3: a it's very much a meme song. There's a long

987
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 3: backstory to how this came to be. It has to

988
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 3: do with market Plier, the YouTube gamer Like, it's a

989
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 3: long history that I can't go into right now. But

990
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 3: ultimately it's just a song that's so complex that not

991
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 3: only is it impossible for humans to play, but it's

992
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 3: even too complex for some computers to handle. And thus

993
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: its title of being a black Midi, uh that it's

994
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 3: basically it's gonna brick your computer. Uh So that's more

995
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 3: or less what a black METI is and Rushy is

996
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 3: perhaps the most famous example of a black Mity. Now.

997
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 3: I've said the words black Mite several times, so I

998
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: would be completely remiss if I didn't mention one of

999
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 3: my favorite contemporary bands, Black Mity. They've released three albums

1000
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 3: so far. Their twenty twenty two album, hell Fire, is

1001
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 3: in contention for one of my favorite albums of the year.

1002
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 3: And I assume they picked their band name because their

1003
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 3: sound is very maximalist. It's very busy, it's very complex,

1004
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 3: and it's very intricate, so I'm sure they picked their

1005
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: band name for that purpose. But a wonderful group. I

1006
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: highly recommend people check out hell Fire, one of the

1007
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:37,919
Speaker 3: best albums twenty twenty two.

1008
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: I promise you, Oh Neat, let's check that out. Now.

1009
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: Going in the entirely opposite direction from PC crashing complexity,

1010
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 1: there is another, just one last topic to touch on here,

1011
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: and this this is by no means an exhaustive list

1012
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: of the way that stuff can be hidden in music.

1013
00:51:58,200 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: There may be other examples, and feel free to write

1014
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: in about them. But another thing you can do is

1015
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: simply take a sound, take a song, and either speed

1016
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: it up or stretch it out so time stretching is

1017
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: one worth mentioning here. It's a matter of taking sonic

1018
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: information and stretching it out so that it's unrecognizable, but

1019
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: in doing so perhaps making it interesting, more interesting, certainly

1020
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: more ambient, or in the reverse, you know, you can

1021
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: you can certainly speed things up. In all of this,

1022
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 1: it reminded me a bit of various videos that'll do

1023
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: this online, where they'll take Alvin and the Chipmunk songs

1024
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: in which, of course you have human voices sped up

1025
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: to be the voices of chipmunks, and then if you

1026
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: slow it down enough, the chipmunks sound like normal adult

1027
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: human beings, and it's everything else that sounds like it's

1028
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: from the Twilight Zone in a realm of monsters.

1029
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 3: It's very sludgy, very slow, very lethargic. And it's very

1030
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 3: fun to listen to a whole album of these slowed

1031
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: down Chipmunk songs. But it's also amazing how much slower

1032
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,720
Speaker 3: and longer these songs are, like, you know, because imagine,

1033
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 3: if you're listening to it at its regular speed, it's

1034
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 3: what you know, half hour something like that. You slow

1035
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 3: it down and man, you've got like an hour and

1036
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 3: a half Alvin and the Chipmunks album. Maybe you don't

1037
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 3: want to be listening to it that long, but it's

1038
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 3: it's fun. It's always fun.

1039
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it listening to too much audio sped up or

1040
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: slowed down. I find it kind of sorts messing with

1041
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: me after a while. Like if I'm qing an episode

1042
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: and I have sped up too much, I feel like

1043
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: I have to walk outside a little bit afterwards.

1044
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 3: Now, when I'm editing these episodes, a little peak behind

1045
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 3: the curtain for our listeners. Quite often I'll do it

1046
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 3: at either plus twenty five percent, plus fifty percent, and

1047
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 3: on rare occasions up to plus one hundred percent. So

1048
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 3: I'm listening to two x speed, and usually it doesn't

1049
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 3: last too long because I'll have to stop to make

1050
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 3: edits and stuff. But man, oh man, I am very

1051
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 3: familiar with the chip conversion of Roberts and the Chipmunk

1052
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 3: version of Joe Wow.

1053
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: Point two five is pretty comfortable for me, and I actually,

1054
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 1: since I don't really like listening to my own voice,

1055
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: I find that if I listened to it at point

1056
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: two five, I feel like I sound better, and maybe

1057
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: I sound like enough like a different person that I

1058
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: can kind of listen to myself more and not judge myself.

1059
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: But when I'm at point five, yeah, it's already a

1060
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: little maddening. And I just can't do double time. It's

1061
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: just too much.

1062
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And at a certain point for me as an editor,

1063
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 3: you know, obviously I'm looking for things that I need

1064
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 3: to you know, sinch up or remove or whatever. At

1065
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 3: a certain point, I can't tell what people are saying anymore,

1066
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 3: so I have to stop. I have to slow it

1067
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 3: down again.

1068
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, you can also, of course stretch out sounds

1069
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: and so forth in order to make music and create

1070
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: novel sounds. A Pierre Schaeffer made use of time stretching,

1071
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: not so much to include easter eggs or hidden information,

1072
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: but just as a part of the experimentation and music making.

1073
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure offhand if there are notable examples of this,

1074
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: but I feel like I've run across some examples in

1075
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: the past where some drone and ambient music creators have

1076
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: used this authect like take something really, slow it down,

1077
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: and even if the source material is not ambient and drone,

1078
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: you can create an ambient and drone experience from it.

1079
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 3: Potentially, There's been a couple of very again, we're getting

1080
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 3: into like kind of like meme music at this point again,

1081
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 3: but a very popular example of this was bouncing around

1082
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 3: the internet. A while ago. Someone took the very popular

1083
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 3: Justin Bieber song Baby and they slowed it down by

1084
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 3: eight hundred percent and the result was beautiful. It was

1085
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,959
Speaker 3: very ambient. Many people compared it to like a Sigurro song,

1086
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 3: and it's fun to listen to. And then the cool

1087
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 3: part is is that that kicked off the idea of like, oh,

1088
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 3: I can do this to anything, you know, and so

1089
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 3: people just started applying this slow it down by eight

1090
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 3: hundred percent philosophy to nearly any song and it always

1091
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 3: has basically the same ethereal floaty sugur ROAs like Vibe,

1092
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 3: which makes me really want to speed up sugar Roast

1093
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 3: by eight hundred percent just to see what that'll sound like.

1094
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 3: But I haven't done that yet. I'm sure someone has

1095
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 3: on the internet, so I'll have to check that out.

1096
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 3: But it's fun. In fact, I came across a it

1097
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 3: was a website where there the website's entire purpose was

1098
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 3: just a slow down audio that you fed into it.

1099
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 3: That you would feed in something and it would slow

1100
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 3: it down by eight hundred percent for you. It's it's

1101
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 3: a fun little trick. I mean, I think, just like

1102
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 3: all gimmicks, it can be overplayed and kind of loses

1103
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 3: its creativity. But it's fun. It's fun stuff.

1104
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 1: It reminds me a bit too. All this of the

1105
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 1: the science fiction and satirical ideas that on one hand,

1106
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 1: Frank Herbert explored a little bit in the Doune books

1107
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: with the Simuta music, which is a type of music

1108
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: that we would listen to while so doing the drug Simmuda,

1109
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: and it's like you could only appreciate the music while

1110
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:02,720
Speaker 1: your brain was altered by the drug because of potentially

1111
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: because of the way it slowed down or sped things up.

1112
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: And then also the British satire series Brass Eye from

1113
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: Chris Morris, they had an episode on drugs that was

1114
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: a parody of the anti drug Hysteria in the UK,

1115
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: and they had a whole bit about this made up

1116
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: drug called cake, and there was a whole bit in

1117
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: there about like this is the music that they listened

1118
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: to while they're on cake, and this is how it

1119
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: sounds to us. But if you're on cake, it sounds

1120
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: like this, and so it's yeah, I can't help but

1121
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: bring that up.

1122
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 3: I literally just read a book about the Pink Floyd

1123
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 3: debut album, Piper at the Gates of Dawn. I just

1124
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 3: finished it, like maybe a day ago, and there's actually

1125
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 3: a big chunk in there about that too, really really

1126
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 3: leaning into the idea of like, there's an audience here

1127
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 3: that is willing to put up with a fifteen minute song.

1128
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 3: Most of them are on acid, but there is an

1129
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 3: audience for this. Can we Pink Floyd pivot from being

1130
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 3: a single based band into an album based band where

1131
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 3: we can have those fifteen minute songs and this kind

1132
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 3: of like internal debate about that, and of course then

1133
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 3: you get into like all the Sid Barrett stuff and

1134
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 3: Roger Waters and it goes onto a whole other world.

1135
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 3: But hey, if you enjoy this kind of talk, you

1136
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 3: should tune into Rusty Needles Record Club.

1137
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, tell everybody where they can find Rusty

1138
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: Needles Record Club. Seth.

1139
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 3: It's a podcast that I host weekly, new episode every Friday.

1140
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 3: I'm a big old music nerd and I just need

1141
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 3: an outlet for talking about music, and thankfully Robert and

1142
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 3: Joe are nice enough to have me on here to

1143
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 3: do it every once in a while, but if you

1144
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 3: need it all the time, you look up any place

1145
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 3: where you find your podcasts Rusty Needles Record Club, and

1146
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 3: you'll find me, my friends, my co hosts, and we

1147
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 3: talk about music. It's like a book club, but for

1148
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 3: music instead, and each episode is a different album, and

1149
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 3: it's a great way to, you know, have a surrogate

1150
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 3: music friend. It's a great way to be introduced to

1151
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 3: new music, and it's a great way just to like

1152
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 3: kind of get some good recommendation. It's fun because, in particular,

1153
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 3: a lot of the episodes we do are chosen by

1154
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 3: our listeners. People will write in say hey, you got

1155
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: to listen to this, and then that becomes the album

1156
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 3: of that week. So it's fun. It's just a great

1157
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 3: way to open yourself up to the wide spectrum of

1158
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 3: music in the world.

1159
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: Awesome, All right, Well we're going to go and close

1160
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: it out here these two episodes on Hidden Material and music,

1161
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: Easter Eggs and music and so forth. But yeah, we'd

1162
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: love to hear from everyone out there. If you have

1163
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: thoughts on the techniques that we discussed in these episodes,

1164
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: if you have thoughts on the specific examples that we discussed,

1165
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: and if you have new examples or new techniques that

1166
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: come to mind, let us know. We'd love to hear

1167
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: from you. A reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind

1168
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: is a science podcast and our core episodes published on

1169
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays we do listener mail, on

1170
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: Wednesdays we do a short form artifact or monster Effect,

1171
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: and on Fridays we do Weird House Cinema. That's our

1172
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: time to set aside most serious concerns and just talk

1173
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: about a weird Thanks as always to Seth for not

1174
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: only co hosting these two episodes, but also producing Stuff

1175
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind in Weirdhouse Cinema in general, and

1176
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: if you want to reach out to us, you can

1177
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to blow your Mind

1178
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: dot com.

1179
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1180
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1181
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows