Speaker 1: Hi, guys, welcome back to I Do Part two, the
Speaker 1: podcast for people that maybe got love wrong the first time,
Speaker 1: or the second time, or the third or fourth time,
Speaker 1: and now find themselves back out there looking for love.
Speaker 1: My name is Jennifer Fessler, and you may or may
Speaker 1: not know me from the Housewives of New Jersey. I
Speaker 1: also have a podcast that I co host with Jackie
Speaker 1: Goldschander from the Housewives of New Jersey. It's called Two
Speaker 1: Jersey Jays, and I am honored to the hosting I
Speaker 1: Do Part two today. I'm a huge fan of all
Speaker 1: of the founders of this podcast, Amy Robot, TJ. Holmes,
Speaker 1: Jenny Garth, Jenna Kramer. I know you guys know them,
Speaker 1: and I also am a big fan of the open
Speaker 1: and honest and telling your story. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: I feel privileged to have been asked to tell mine.
Speaker 1: I hope that you guys who are listening can relate
Speaker 1: to some of it. It is like every other story.
Speaker 1: It is a sad story, sometimes difficult to tell, but
Speaker 1: ultimately the good news is it has a very happy ending.
Speaker 1: You know, I spoke about my love story, my marriage.
Speaker 1: I spoke about it on Housewives a little bit in
Speaker 1: season thirteen, maybe even into season fourteen, but not really
Speaker 1: the details of it. So I'm just going to share.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been married for twenty five years, and
Speaker 1: two of those years were really really difficult, and actually
Speaker 1: my husband and I separated. But I'm getting way ahead
Speaker 1: of myself, so I will give you a little bit
Speaker 1: of information just about me. I grew up as the
Speaker 1: product of divorce, for sure. So my parents divorced when
Speaker 1: I was three years old, and so I you know,
Speaker 1: I don't remember that heart of my life, really, but
Speaker 1: I can tell you that they both got remarried, and
Speaker 1: they both got divorced again and remarried, and then my
Speaker 1: second stepfather passed away. I have a third stepfather now,
Speaker 1: and my steck at my dad got divorced again and
Speaker 1: then married again and divorced again. So I am certainly
Speaker 1: an expert when it comes to parents getting divorced. And
Speaker 1: you would think that my own experience, well, I'm sure
Speaker 1: it was affected by that, but you would think that
Speaker 1: that would have been really helpful. But when I was
Speaker 1: separated and considering divorce, but everything is God. You know,
Speaker 1: you do the best you can during difficult times. But
Speaker 1: so my childhood was not idyllic by any stretch of
Speaker 1: the imagination. My parents didn't speak to each other. There
Speaker 1: really wasn't like a co parenting situation. I lived my
Speaker 1: mom when she got remarried. We moved to Sugarland, Texas
Speaker 1: of all places, and my dad was living in New
Speaker 1: York City, and I guess you know, we went. I
Speaker 1: have sister. I have one sister through my dad and
Speaker 1: my mom. I have two brothers from my dad and
Speaker 1: a stepmother who's no longer my stepmother. And then I
Speaker 1: have a sister from my father and his third wife.
Speaker 1: That sister is actually younger than my daughter. It's a
Speaker 1: whole dysfunctional, fed up mess. But anyway, so I come
Speaker 1: from a lot of chaos, and my parents and certainly
Speaker 1: did not get along. They didn't really speak, and we
Speaker 1: were shuttled back and forth a lot of craziness. So
Speaker 1: you know, when I met my husband, I well, first
Speaker 1: of all, I was dying to have babies and get married,
Speaker 1: even after all of the chaos that you know I
Speaker 1: had been through as a kid. I really that biological
Speaker 1: clock was kicking. I met Jeff and I was the
Speaker 1: director of a dating service called It's Just Lunch and
Speaker 1: the premise behind It's Just Lunch I actually think it
Speaker 1: still exists, was that professionals are really, really busy and
Speaker 1: nobody has time for dinner, necessarily on a first date,
Speaker 1: and how about we just meet up for lunch or
Speaker 1: a drink, see if there's a spark and move on.
Speaker 1: So I was the director and which was really a
Speaker 1: crazy job, but that's for another episode. I was the
Speaker 1: director of this dating service and trying to get my
Speaker 1: numbers up and get people to join, and reached out
Speaker 1: to uh, Jeff Fessler because he had been a client
Speaker 1: before I got there and his membership had expired. So
Speaker 1: called him up one day and my name is Jen
Speaker 1: and I would love to meet you. I know you
Speaker 1: were a member and your membership has expired. And he's like, no,
Speaker 1: thank you. It wasn't great for me, I'm not interested.
Speaker 1: And being Jeff Fesslor, I was able to persuade him
Speaker 1: and you know, you haven't met me yet. I'm the
Speaker 1: new director, and I think that you know, you can
Speaker 1: have a different experience anyway, So he came in like
Speaker 1: that afternoon.
Speaker 2: And he joined. He joined again.
Speaker 1: But the interesting part of that was that he said,
Speaker 1: you know you have all these questions you have to ask,
Speaker 1: like what are you looking for? What are you looking for?
Speaker 1: You know, mentally, emotionally, physically, and he's like, what am
Speaker 1: I looking for?
Speaker 2: Looking mirror?
Speaker 1: And if you know Jeff, if any of you've ever
Speaker 1: watched The Housewives or seen him on it, he's that's
Speaker 1: not really his personality. He's he's very introverted, sort of shy.
Speaker 1: And so I didn't realize at the time what a
Speaker 1: big deal that was. But so I said, no, sorry,
Speaker 1: I have a boyfriend, which I didn't. I was not
Speaker 1: attracted to him, not that he wasn't attractive. I just
Speaker 1: didn't have a spark, and not to mention the fact
Speaker 1: that I was, you know, I was working for this
Speaker 1: company and really shouldn't be dating my clients. But that
Speaker 1: was probably second to the fact that I didn't think.
Speaker 2: There was a connection.
Speaker 1: Anyway, he was very persistent and started calling me at
Speaker 1: work and please, let's get together. We can just be friends,
Speaker 1: and like, I just it's funny because I met him
Speaker 1: for a drink and he walked into we had a
Speaker 1: drink at the Four Seasons on fifty seventh Street. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he walked in and I thought, not for me. Jeff
Speaker 1: is five five. He likes to say he's five six.
Speaker 1: And the only thing I cared about for sure at
Speaker 1: that time when people would fix me up on blind
Speaker 1: dates was that he had to be tall, because I
Speaker 1: always had sort of like this complex about being a
Speaker 1: bigger girl, and you know, careful what you wish for,
Speaker 1: and what is that saying? We wait, we do something,
Speaker 1: and God laughs, we plan and God laughs. Anyway, but
Speaker 1: we became friends, but he was always still interested and
Speaker 1: I wasn't. But we played that little game and still
Speaker 1: hung out, and eventually I told him i'd fix him up.
Speaker 1: You know, I am the director of this dating service,
Speaker 1: So come in and we'll talk, and I'll show you
Speaker 1: some pictures of some of the women and tell me
Speaker 1: who you like. And so he did that, and the
Speaker 1: second he started to pick out those women that he liked,
Speaker 1: I started to get really annoyed and I was like,
Speaker 1: excuse me, you are in love with me?
Speaker 2: What is happening here?
Speaker 1: So I started to feel something for Jeff, and at
Speaker 1: the time, I was dating someone else. Trying to kind
Speaker 1: of wrap this up pretty quickly this part of the story,
Speaker 1: you guys, but long story short on one particular day
Speaker 1: I kissed the guy I was dating, and I kissed
Speaker 1: Jeff Fessler, and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1: Wait a second, it's Jeff Fessler. It is not this guy.
Speaker 1: And very quickly I was like, wait, wait, wait, I
Speaker 1: love Jeff Fessler. And very quickly after that we were engaged.
Speaker 1: Very quickly after that, we were married. Very quickly after that,
Speaker 1: we were pregnant. And so once I realized that he
Speaker 1: was the one, he had kind of figured it out
Speaker 1: before I did. I just I was like, you know, amen,
Speaker 1: let's go, let's start. Let's get this part of my life,
Speaker 1: rolling the family, the house in the suburbs, all of
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: It was so.
Speaker 1: Exciting that time in my life. And you know, we'd
Speaker 1: been really really close friends for a while, and once that,
Speaker 1: once I kind of crossed over into falling in love
Speaker 1: with Jeff, it was of course, it was more exciting
Speaker 1: and different. But the basis of our relationship was always
Speaker 1: that we were best friends. And today I would tell
Speaker 1: you that that is the most important part of me
Speaker 1: and Jeff Fessler. I mean, we are family and he
Speaker 1: is everything to me. But I just I had that
Speaker 1: with him always. I still have it today, and I
Speaker 1: tell my kids all the time how important that is
Speaker 1: to not just fall in love and have you know,
Speaker 1: all of the pheromones and the hormones and the you know,
Speaker 1: sparks and that kind of a sexual connection. But also
Speaker 1: I really like the person you decide to spend your
Speaker 1: life with right and to respect that person. And I
Speaker 1: felt all of that for Jeff Fessler. So we get married,
Speaker 1: and we do the newlywed thing, we do the new
Speaker 1: parents thing, and four months after we got married, I
Speaker 1: was pregnant and gave birth to my son in two thousand.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, I gave birth to my daughter, and.
Speaker 2: Was you know, just.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say playing that role. It's not
Speaker 1: it's really not the way it felt. I was living
Speaker 1: that life. I was just everything was about, you know,
Speaker 1: the babies and Jeff and our new family. And I
Speaker 1: guess like seven years into the marriage, well, things probably
Speaker 1: started to change before that. Maybe they started to change
Speaker 1: a little bit year five. I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: I started hanging out with friends who loved going out
Speaker 1: on Thursday nights in my town and we would go
Speaker 1: out to whatever local restaurant or bar and we would
Speaker 1: drink and we would flirt with guys and there wasn't
Speaker 1: anything specific happening. I wasn't I didn't have an affair,
Speaker 1: but I sort of like started to check out a
Speaker 1: little bit and I started to crave that attention that
Speaker 1: I did for years from men. I had lots of
Speaker 1: daddy issues, but I always felt the need to draw
Speaker 1: a man's attention. And you know the beginning when you
Speaker 1: have little babies, I wasn't feeling that as much, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, I was like I started
Speaker 1: to started to need attention from men again, and so
Speaker 1: it was kind of like a thing. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know how I found this group of women that
Speaker 1: also wanted to go out on Thursday nights. Because you know,
Speaker 1: my best friends who are still my best friends today,
Speaker 1: a lot of them have been divorced, but there are
Speaker 1: some of them that didn't really crave that. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's just where I was at in my
Speaker 1: life and Jeff and I were not connecting. He was
Speaker 1: working crazy long hours. He was an associate who was
Speaker 1: trying to make partner and at a law firm as
Speaker 1: a lawyer, and so he was traveling all the time
Speaker 1: and you know, I used to with the kids and
Speaker 1: another friend of mine know, his husband was traveling all
Speaker 1: the time. We always said we were like sister wives,
Speaker 1: and it was like, you know, four kids together and
Speaker 1: the two of us getting them through anyway. So I
Speaker 1: was out there as my point and my marriage was
Speaker 1: definitely not my priority at that time, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: for Jeff either, and so, you know, we were just
Speaker 1: not connecting. We were not connecting on an emotional level,
Speaker 1: and we were not connecting on a physical level. And
Speaker 1: eventually I discovered at about year seven, I guess that
Speaker 1: Jeff had an affair, and yeah, that was that was
Speaker 1: a hard day. Podcast is not long enough for me
Speaker 1: to get into all of the details of it all,
Speaker 1: but I will tell you that it was a very
Speaker 1: strange thing. This woman that Jeff was involved with and
Speaker 1: I had this conversation and I don't know, I knew
Speaker 1: almost immediately that something was up. But that's not the
Speaker 1: point of this whole big picture story. But I, as
Speaker 1: you would expect, completely lost my mind. I'm saying all
Speaker 1: of this to you first about my going out on
Speaker 1: Thursday nights and the headspace I was in because I
Speaker 1: do believe that if it was just a matter of
Speaker 1: time before it was me. And so everybody, you know,
Speaker 1: got so much feedback and advice, and I remember, just
Speaker 1: like my mom saying, how could you stay with him?
Speaker 1: But I guess I knew there was a part of
Speaker 1: me that knew that that not only does it take
Speaker 1: too But I almost felt lucky that it was him first,
Speaker 1: because I could place all the blame on him. But
Speaker 1: I had been flirting with other guys and whatever. I
Speaker 1: know that I was headed in that direction. Once I
Speaker 1: discovered that Jeff had had an affair, we probably spent
Speaker 1: I guess about a year still together. And this summer
Speaker 1: after it happened, I said to him, I'm going to
Speaker 1: Florida because I'd had lots of friends in Florida. My
Speaker 1: sister was in Florida. I'm taking the kids for the summer,
Speaker 1: and I just need some space. This was not a separation,
Speaker 1: This was just I just want to go to Florida.
Speaker 1: I want to, you know, be by my friends, be
Speaker 1: by my sister. Found a little rental, went to Florida,
Speaker 1: and not only found a little rental, found myself a
Speaker 1: little boyfriend. And so the end of that summer I'll
Speaker 1: never forget. Jeff came to visit and I told him
Speaker 1: that I wanted a separation. And it's interesting because I
Speaker 1: remember when he came to visit and we actually took
Speaker 1: the kids to Disney, and when he left, I just
Speaker 1: will never forget my son, just being so distraught. I
Speaker 1: want to go home, I want daddy. You know, I
Speaker 1: didn't factor in when I got separated. I guess because
Speaker 1: I had been through so much divorce. I didn't factor
Speaker 1: and how hard it was going to be, not only
Speaker 1: on my kids, but to watch my kids in that
Speaker 1: kind of pain. You know, they weren't. My parents were
Speaker 1: divorced when I was three, and then they got divorced
Speaker 1: again and again and again and again, and so you know,
Speaker 1: my mind, kids are resilient, but it was a whole
Speaker 1: other level of difficult. And you know, I think probably
Speaker 1: every mother and father feels that. Right when heard it
Speaker 1: said that, like when you're getting divorced, you get to
Speaker 1: the point if you go through with your divorce, where
Speaker 1: nothing matters except that you can't be with this person
Speaker 1: anymore because it's so hard. It's so hard, especially if
Speaker 1: you have kids. Well it's hard even if you don't, obviously,
Speaker 1: but it's so hard to watch your kids go through
Speaker 1: this with you, and so I guess I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people get to the point where they're like, Okay, listen,
Speaker 1: the kids are resilient. I don't care about the money,
Speaker 1: I don't care about being alone. I just can't be
Speaker 1: in this marriage anymore. But that was not the case
Speaker 1: with me or Jeff. So but I had this boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and I was convinced that, you know, it was time
Speaker 1: and that I on it a divorce. So I went
Speaker 1: back to Jersey and Jeff moved out and he moved
Speaker 1: into New York City and was distraught, I have to say,
Speaker 1: and the boyfriend, my boyfriend at the time, moved to
Speaker 1: Jersey from Florida. I did so many things wrong, you guys,
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't not do again and that I'm sorry for,
Speaker 1: even though in the end there's a happy ending. But
Speaker 1: you know, I was so caught up in this feeling
Speaker 1: of my heart racing from this guy, and you know,
Speaker 1: he's a nice guy.
Speaker 2: He was a very nice guy.
Speaker 1: And this passion that I was feeling and that just
Speaker 1: took over in a way, and I would have I
Speaker 1: had to do it again, I would have slowed things
Speaker 1: way down and I would have, you know, potentially just happened.
Speaker 1: It all seemed to happen so fast, and him moving
Speaker 1: to New Jersey and introducing him to my kids and
Speaker 1: you know, them forming a relationship. So you know, you
Speaker 1: live and learn. And the thing is, though, you know,
Speaker 1: Jeff and I were separated for a year and a
Speaker 1: half going on two. But the whole time we were separated,
Speaker 1: we just didn't seem to move forward in the divorce proceedings.
Speaker 1: So we got a mediator, and which was an easy
Speaker 1: choice to make because there wasn't a lot of animosity
Speaker 1: there anything. There was just like I just felt so
Speaker 1: sad and so badly because Jeff really did not want
Speaker 1: to get divorced, although we did. He got a girlfriend also,
Speaker 1: but we would like I don't know, there was no
Speaker 1: screaming at each other over money. I remember at one
Speaker 1: point I said to him, listen, I'm not worried. I
Speaker 1: don't we don't need a lawyer because I know you,
Speaker 1: I know your heart, I know what kind of father
Speaker 1: you are. I'm not at all worried that you're gonna
Speaker 1: screw me. I trust you, and I'm sure that people
Speaker 1: everywhere friends I don't remember at the time, they were
Speaker 1: probably like, you're you're a freaking idiot. But I just
Speaker 1: I knew him. I know Jeff Wessler, and so we
Speaker 1: didn't like, we weren't at each other's throats. When the
Speaker 1: kids would call UH to complain about I don't know
Speaker 1: daddy said this or Daddy did that. I was sort
Speaker 1: of like, honey, you died the wrong number. Do not
Speaker 1: complain about your father to me. And you know, he
Speaker 1: was the same. We were just very respectful of each
Speaker 1: other and sad and just very very sad. And eventually
Speaker 1: there's a lot that that went down. But eventually we
Speaker 1: were both on vacation. Jeff took the kids to beaches
Speaker 1: in Jamaica maybe and I at that time went to
Speaker 1: Saint Bart's, very glamorous with my boyfriend. And the whole
Speaker 1: time I was there, I was so sad. And it
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with this guy. Again, perfectly lovely, guy,
Speaker 1: treated me very well, but I just missed my family.
Speaker 1: And when I would talk to Jeff and the kids,
Speaker 1: you know, and they were in a whole different they
Speaker 1: were at all inclusive, and I don't know I was
Speaker 1: at this glamorous hotel, it was like, you know, a
Speaker 1: fortune and hob nobbing with the rich and famous, and
Speaker 1: all I wanted to do was like be at the
Speaker 1: buffet at beaches in Jamaica, and I just, I guess
Speaker 1: I just missed Jeff. I just missed him terribly. So
Speaker 1: got back from vacation and would like lie to my
Speaker 1: boyfriend and tell him I was going to go into mediation.
Speaker 1: And meanwhile I was like meeting Jeff at Chili's and
Speaker 1: just talking, and you know, he was so certain that
Speaker 1: we were making a mistake the whole time, and I
Speaker 1: think I was. I also, I knew in my heart
Speaker 1: that it was a mistake, because again, it's not easy
Speaker 1: to get divorced. I think that most people, maybe not everyone,
Speaker 1: but most people that do, they're they're pretty positive, right,
Speaker 1: And I just didn't want to live my life without Jeffessler.
Speaker 1: And there were so many reasons for it. Jeff Fessler
Speaker 1: made and makes me feel safe and makes me feel peaceful.
Speaker 1: I heard said this maybe mel Robbins said something once.
Speaker 1: It resonated with me, and it was that he's, like
Speaker 1: she said, don't wish to fall madly in love, wish
Speaker 1: to fall peacefully in love. And I know, like at
Speaker 1: the beginning of any relationship, there's the sparks fly, and
Speaker 1: there's all of that energy, and you know, excitement and
Speaker 1: crazy sex and all of that, not always but hopefully.
Speaker 1: But I would say, and I have said to my kids,
Speaker 1: all of that after a while, it's not that it
Speaker 1: goes away entirely, but life gets real. And so that
Speaker 1: did definitely dissipate for us that excitement and life got real,
Speaker 1: and I think that we both were looking for that
Speaker 1: excitement again as opposed to looking to each other to
Speaker 1: find it and to put it back into our marriage.
Speaker 1: I say all this to you, by the way, I'm
Speaker 1: not a marriage counselor this is just I'm just this
Speaker 1: is just you know, my experience. But we again, we
Speaker 1: went to Chili's and then it was Valentine's Day and
Speaker 1: he bought me these little earrings and it was like, okay, enough,
Speaker 1: this is clearly we are not ready to get divorced.
Speaker 1: But we also knew that we couldn't get back together
Speaker 1: and then have it happen again. Right, you can't do
Speaker 1: that to your kids again. So we had long conversations
Speaker 1: and I just knew that I didn't want to live
Speaker 1: my life without Jeff Fessler it not only in it,
Speaker 1: but you know, as my husband, and so we made
Speaker 1: that decision and try again. I remember we went my
Speaker 1: kids always went to Sleepway Camp and we went to
Speaker 1: visiting day and we sat down and we're like, you know,
Speaker 1: we have to tell you something.
Speaker 2: We are getting back together.
Speaker 1: And I just remember them staring at us and like
Speaker 1: it was like you, guys, I promise, I promise you,
Speaker 1: this is not going to happen again. And I don't
Speaker 1: remember the exact words that I use, but you know
Speaker 1: they were confused, of course, and happy, of course. And
Speaker 1: we sold our house because it was just time for
Speaker 1: a fresh start and same town, moved into a new
Speaker 1: house and actually we're in our third house here in
Speaker 1: Upper Saltle River where we live, and we started again.
Speaker 1: So let me just say, of all, I am not
Speaker 1: suggesting that anyone following the path that Jefffessler and I did,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that separation for sure is the answer.
Speaker 1: I can only speak from my own experience and say
Speaker 1: that things changed, and they changed for better. It's funny
Speaker 1: because in my town, like a lot of small suburban towns,
Speaker 1: everybody talks, right. So like when we got separated, everybody talked.
Speaker 1: When you know, everybody knew about our infidelity, and everybody
Speaker 1: knew when I had the new boyfriend and whatever. But
Speaker 1: when we got back together, I think that's probably when
Speaker 1: people started talking the most. And I started getting phone
Speaker 1: calls from a lot of women confidentially reaching out and saying, listen,
Speaker 1: I you know whatever, I really am not I want
Speaker 1: to get separated, but I'm not sure I want to
Speaker 1: get divorced or women that were separated, and how'd you
Speaker 1: do it?
Speaker 2: What did you do?
Speaker 1: How did you manage to get back together? And I
Speaker 1: don't even know, and I didn't know then. I really
Speaker 1: don't know now if there's a clear cut answer. I
Speaker 1: just I couldn't divorce him. I thank God because I
Speaker 1: feel blessed every day that our marriage survived and that,
Speaker 1: you know, our family is intact. But I just didn't
Speaker 1: have that conviction. I guess that I wanted to live
Speaker 1: without my husband, and we were both humble enough to also.
Speaker 1: We went to therapy, of course, and I admit our
Speaker 1: mistakes and talk about the infidelities and talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: where things went wrong and how we took each other
Speaker 1: for granted, and so yeah, so we got back together
Speaker 1: and life began again. We've been married for twenty five years,
Speaker 1: and so I'll tell you that my marriage is not perfect,
Speaker 1: and I am certainly not perfect. I am the biggest
Speaker 1: pain in the ass. Jeff is close to perfect. I
Speaker 1: would say that he's an amazing father, and he is
Speaker 1: an amazing man, just a good man. If any of
Speaker 1: you at there are Jewish or no, the word mentch,
Speaker 1: that's what Jeff is.
Speaker 2: Good man.
Speaker 1: And I'm very lucky and he puts up with a
Speaker 1: lot of shit. I am messy, I am at times lazy, cranky, nasty,
Speaker 1: and my husband is very very patient. He's not perfect either,
Speaker 1: so let me say that. And he can also drive
Speaker 1: me crazy. But I see in him I feel it
Speaker 1: has this. I feel lucky all the time, I feel
Speaker 1: like very I feel just very lessed. So fast forward,
Speaker 1: I guess all these years, I will tell you that
Speaker 1: Jeff and I are not We are not guided by
Speaker 1: this spar I use that word. I hope you guys
Speaker 1: relate to it. In other words, we ain't hanging from
Speaker 1: the chandeliers, right, We're not like And that's not to
Speaker 1: say that I'm not trying to put down our sex
Speaker 1: life or our connection. I'm just trying to be real
Speaker 1: and tell you that those things are good, but they
Speaker 1: are not we are I am fifty six, Jeff is
Speaker 1: sixty two years old. So that is not our priority.
Speaker 1: And people, you know a lot of people would disagree
Speaker 1: with me and do disagree with me that that has
Speaker 1: to be a huge priority, right, sex and date night
Speaker 1: and connection, and we're together all the time obviously, but
Speaker 1: I don't know that our marriage is based on that stuff.
Speaker 1: And that's not to say I don't know if it's good, bad,
Speaker 1: or I don't know. I'm just this is what is
Speaker 1: for us, and we are to this day. We are
Speaker 1: best friends. We are parents of these, you know, two
Speaker 1: incredible people. And you know, my sister has been through
Speaker 1: divorce and many many of my friends have. But she
Speaker 1: always says to me that she's specifically because of the kids.
Speaker 1: She's I don't know, jealous is the right word. She's
Speaker 1: my sister, but she wishes that she had family unit
Speaker 1: and that it's so nice to you know, be able
Speaker 1: to eat together, the four of us after all of
Speaker 1: these years, and so I feel very very lucky about that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: No one will love to love your kids as much
Speaker 1: as your as much as their father or their mother.
Speaker 1: You know, you're whoever you made them with, and nobody's
Speaker 1: ever going to be as invested right as the two
Speaker 1: of you. But things are different now, oh god, they
Speaker 1: are so different now, certainly than before we were separated.
Speaker 1: But even you know, over the years things have changed
Speaker 1: and we're getting older, and so you know, when people
Speaker 1: ask about the state of my marriage, like, I always
Speaker 1: talk about the stuff that I love about it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can tell you things I don't love about it,
Speaker 1: but the things that I love about it. So I
Speaker 1: love going on vacation with Jeff Essler. We've traveled a
Speaker 1: lot together, and what I love about it is that
Speaker 1: we've developed this rhythm and we kind of like he
Speaker 1: knows and I know exactly when we go on vacation.
Speaker 1: We plan it all around the three meals every day.
Speaker 1: Where are we eating breakfast, luncheon, dinner. And we are
Speaker 1: like when I say foodies, I don't mean we're fancy,
Speaker 1: We're not, but we are both well, that's what we
Speaker 1: care about the most is where are we eating? Of course,
Speaker 1: the sight seeing, of course, seeing different places, meeting different people,
Speaker 1: but there's a limit to that. Because we know that
Speaker 1: we know that I'm done after the morning of sight seeing,
Speaker 1: like that the afternoon has to be you know, chill
Speaker 1: and whatever that looks like. And that we're going to
Speaker 1: go out to dinner early because I need to be
Speaker 1: in bed by ten. And Jeff has adopted that way
Speaker 1: of vacationing and he's also like that. Now you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. We have a rhythm and we we
Speaker 1: understand each other. We laugh a lot. We also fight.
Speaker 1: I don't know about a lot, but we definitely fight.
Speaker 2: We laugh a lot.
Speaker 1: It's there's this I don't there's this piece in my
Speaker 1: house that I did not have growing up and shout
Speaker 1: out to peace. So so funny. My friends who are single,
Speaker 1: I've set them up. I try to, and I say,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of them who are my age yet
Speaker 1: a little younger, a little older, and sometimes they don't
Speaker 1: connect with whoever they're dating, and you know, on the
Speaker 1: first date or the second date, and you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of I don't know, I don't see myself
Speaker 1: having sex with them, or I don't see my heart's
Speaker 1: not racing.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm and I could be wrong about this, but if
Speaker 1: I was single. Now, what I'd be looking for is
Speaker 1: not necessarily that spark. I think that's great if you
Speaker 1: find it. I'd be looking for.
Speaker 2: Peace.
Speaker 1: I'd be looking for companionship. I'd be looking for someone
Speaker 1: whose life views matched my own, someone that I could
Speaker 1: have fun with and who is solid, and who would
Speaker 1: like Jeff actually, interestingly, interestingly enough, comes from the opposite
Speaker 1: childhood that I had. His parents were married for over
Speaker 1: fifty years. Two of the most wonderful humans that have
Speaker 1: ever walked the face of this earth. Max and Phyllis
Speaker 1: Wessler were just everything. I get choked up even talking
Speaker 1: about them. They had the most beautiful marriage and he
Speaker 1: just lived and died for her the same. But she
Speaker 1: felt the same. But she had a lot of health
Speaker 1: issues and he just always took care of her. And
Speaker 1: he set this example. I think, for Jeff, you know
Speaker 1: of what a good husband looks like, and I you know,
Speaker 1: people you know I'm honest about Jeff's affair and about then.
Speaker 1: I had my own fairs plural. But Jeff is the
Speaker 1: kind of husband that just shows up period and shows
Speaker 1: up for his kids.
Speaker 2: Help.
Speaker 1: I think I'm all over the place, you guys, excuse
Speaker 1: me if I am, but like you know, this is
Speaker 1: I don't know why the story is popping into my head.
Speaker 1: But when my son was graduating middle school, Jeff had
Speaker 1: won this award, this huge award. He won Lawyer of
Speaker 1: the Year. He's a securities attorneys, so like in his area,
Speaker 1: I want to say, City Bank sponsored this. It was
Speaker 1: a huge event where he was being honored and it
Speaker 1: fell on the same day as middle school graduation. And
Speaker 1: I was like, Jeff, I'm sorry, but Zach's not going
Speaker 1: to make his middle school graduation either. We're going We're
Speaker 1: going to this gala honoring you. And for me, there
Speaker 1: was no question. I was like, this is a once
Speaker 1: in a lifetime and he was not having it and
Speaker 1: he had have someone from his office be there to
Speaker 1: take his place. And I'm bragging about that because I'm
Speaker 1: so proud of that that because I know that if
Speaker 1: it was me and someone was honoring me for being
Speaker 1: the best friend of a housewife ever, they could have
Speaker 1: been graduating from college. We were going to that party.
Speaker 1: And so I bring other things to the table. But
Speaker 1: I am a little on the a little on the
Speaker 1: selfish side, but you know, that's that's just who he is.
Speaker 2: And so today. Here we are, you know, we are
Speaker 2: in our are you know, golden years. I don't know.
Speaker 1: We're middle age, little older than middle age now, and
Speaker 1: life is hard and it has dealt us blows like
Speaker 1: it does us all and we do the best we
Speaker 1: can and we fight, and we have unhappy moments and
Speaker 1: unhappy periods of time. But I don't know, I feel very,
Speaker 1: very lucky to have made my marriage work. And you know,
Speaker 1: to know that I'm growing old with this person who
Speaker 1: is just he's just so nice to me. I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounds so silly, right, but he is. He's so
Speaker 1: nice to me, and I try to be so nice
Speaker 1: to him and just appreciate him. And we're very different,
Speaker 1: you know. I'm I am outgoing, I'm an extrovert. Jeff's
Speaker 1: an introvert. I remember at the beginning of our marriage
Speaker 1: used to really annoy me because we would go out
Speaker 1: with other couples and Jeff was very quiet. He is
Speaker 1: very quiet, not at home at all and not in work,
Speaker 1: but he socially he can be and so he wouldn't
Speaker 1: say much.
Speaker 2: And I used to get bess it fights on the
Speaker 2: way home.
Speaker 1: And now it's like I don't give a shit and
Speaker 1: he talks to me. He has something to say, and
Speaker 1: he bonds with the guys that he bonds with, and
Speaker 1: he's actually enjoys being social more than I do.
Speaker 2: It's up to Jeff.
Speaker 1: We would go out at least twice a week. Once
Speaker 1: a week is more than I'd like to be going out,
Speaker 1: but he's into it and he loves being social. He
Speaker 1: loves all this reality TV stuff and the house. I
Speaker 1: love it too, but he really loves it. But I
Speaker 1: used to get so mad at him, and now as
Speaker 1: we've gotten older, it just does not bother me at all.
Speaker 1: There are other things that bother me. There are there
Speaker 1: things that we disagree on. He gets mad at me
Speaker 1: for I mean, many things, but it's just different. It's
Speaker 1: like we went through it and it was it really sucked,
Speaker 1: and we learned from it, I guess, and we are
Speaker 1: both so grateful to be where we are today. You know,
Speaker 1: we're not in couples therapy anymore, but that definitely helped.
Speaker 2: I would definitely recommend that you know we are. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: Our house is very peaceful. That's what I want for
Speaker 1: my kids and for anyone who's listening, I would tell
Speaker 1: you that, yes, fall madly in love. I want passion
Speaker 1: for the people that I love. I want them to
Speaker 1: experience romance and passion and everything that goes along with it.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying it's not still part of my marriage.
Speaker 1: He walks to the door, and sometimes my heart does
Speaker 1: skip a little beat. I'm very proud of him, but
Speaker 1: that is not the basis of it. The basis of
Speaker 1: us is. You know, it might sound funny since I've
Speaker 1: talked about infidelity, but it's trust and it's respect to
Speaker 1: mutual respect. He is smart and I love that. I
Speaker 1: know he's very proud of me for all this the
Speaker 1: silly world that I've become part of, but he loves it.
Speaker 1: He loves watching me do my thing, and he tells
Speaker 1: me appreciates me. And you know, even the podcast that
Speaker 1: I do with Jackie, the fact that I'm doing I
Speaker 1: do part two today. You know, he's always like, I know,
Speaker 1: he's very very proud of me. We're good to each other.
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, that's that's kind of our story,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, we haven't had a perfect story,
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't change it. I say that, Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. Like I don't again, I'm not recommending separation,
Speaker 1: but for some reason, it was probably the best thing
Speaker 1: that ever happened to us, and so I'm grateful for it. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I get asked sometimes if we would ever
Speaker 1: do like a vow renewal. Nah, you will say that,
Speaker 1: I mean, no, I don't know.
Speaker 2: We're not Jeff. Jeff is not one for words. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, we write each other beautiful cards, but I
Speaker 1: don't see that for us. I think it would just
Speaker 1: be I think it's a beautiful. It's beautiful when people
Speaker 1: do it, but for us, it would just probably be
Speaker 1: kind of cheesy. And I think we're just there's no
Speaker 1: question now that we're permitted and our vows are in place. Listen, ever,
Speaker 1: say never feel. I feel as positive as I could
Speaker 1: that our marriage is now going to last till death
Speaker 1: do us part. But again, you never know, So listen
Speaker 1: for anyone out there who maybe is thinking about reconciling
Speaker 1: with an ex if there's a chance. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying an ex necessarily a boyfriend, Like if you're married,
Speaker 1: if you have kids and you're thinking about it a
Speaker 1: little bit. You know, if you're asking me, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell you, yeah, like pursue that. Maybe have some more conversation,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe go to mediation and therapy, maybe go
Speaker 1: to Chili's and have a margarita and try to speak
Speaker 1: nicely to each other if there's still that heart in
Speaker 1: you that's not sure. You know, divorce is hard. It's
Speaker 1: hard on the people that are getting divorced. It's hard
Speaker 1: on the man. It's hard on the woman or the
Speaker 1: two men or the two women, and it's hard on
Speaker 1: the kids. So for me, it worked to try again.
Speaker 1: So if there's a chance, I would encourage you to
Speaker 1: try to explore it, because it is. It's really nice
Speaker 1: to have been married for twenty five years. Actually though
Speaker 1: excuse me, Jeff says twenty three. He won't give me
Speaker 1: the twenty five because of the two years we were separated,
Speaker 1: But I'm telling him twenty five, especially when it is
Speaker 1: time for gifts. So but I wish everybody out there love,
Speaker 1: whether it's your part two, your part three, you're part four,
Speaker 1: whatever that looks like, whatever form that it takes, and
Speaker 1: you know, if it means divorce, I'm also for that.
Speaker 1: You know, nobody I don't. I wouldn't have wanted to
Speaker 1: set an example for my kids of being unhappy and
Speaker 1: living unhappy and fighting constantly, and I don't think that's healthy.
Speaker 1: I know that's not healthy. So there are, of course
Speaker 1: cases where divorce is the way to go. We got lucky,
Speaker 1: so I you know, I recommend if you're having doubts
Speaker 1: to at least respect those doubts. Maybe, And I hope though,
Speaker 1: if you do or if you don't, that you are
Speaker 1: at peace and happy in your relationships, are happy alone,
Speaker 1: or if you're at the beginning of your relationship, if
Speaker 1: you're at the beginning of a marriage, if you're beginning
Speaker 1: of your second marriage, I recommend I don't know, mutual
Speaker 1: respect and friendship and laughs, lots and lots of laughter. Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: so thank you so much for allowing me to tell
Speaker 1: you my little story here. I really love what this
Speaker 1: podcast is about, and I hope that maybe sharing my
Speaker 1: experience may help someone going through something similar. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're separated, if you're going through divorce, you can
Speaker 1: always if you have questions, please DM me, Please reach out,
Speaker 1: you can call, you can email, follow us on socials.
Speaker 1: All the information is going to be in the show notes,
Speaker 1: and you can rate the show You can review it
Speaker 1: if you feel like it. I would love it, but
Speaker 1: I do. Part two is an iHeartRadio podcast where falling
Speaker 1: in love is the main objective. Thank you guys very
Speaker 1: much for listening.