1 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, welcome back to I Do Part two, the 2 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: podcast for people that maybe got love wrong the first time, 3 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: or the second time, or the third or fourth time, 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: and now find themselves back out there looking for love. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: My name is Jennifer Fessler, and you may or may 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: not know me from the Housewives of New Jersey. I 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: also have a podcast that I co host with Jackie 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: Goldschander from the Housewives of New Jersey. It's called Two 9 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Jersey Jays, and I am honored to the hosting I 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: Do Part two today. I'm a huge fan of all 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: of the founders of this podcast, Amy Robot, TJ. Holmes, 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: Jenny Garth, Jenna Kramer. I know you guys know them, 13 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: and I also am a big fan of the open 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: and honest and telling your story. And I don't know, 15 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: I feel privileged to have been asked to tell mine. 16 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: I hope that you guys who are listening can relate 17 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: to some of it. It is like every other story. 18 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: It is a sad story, sometimes difficult to tell, but 19 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: ultimately the good news is it has a very happy ending. 20 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: You know, I spoke about my love story, my marriage. 21 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: I spoke about it on Housewives a little bit in 22 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: season thirteen, maybe even into season fourteen, but not really 23 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: the details of it. So I'm just going to share. 24 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: You know, I've been married for twenty five years, and 25 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: two of those years were really really difficult, and actually 26 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: my husband and I separated. But I'm getting way ahead 27 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: of myself, so I will give you a little bit 28 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: of information just about me. I grew up as the 29 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: product of divorce, for sure. So my parents divorced when 30 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: I was three years old, and so I you know, 31 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: I don't remember that heart of my life, really, but 32 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: I can tell you that they both got remarried, and 33 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: they both got divorced again and remarried, and then my 34 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: second stepfather passed away. I have a third stepfather now, 35 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: and my steck at my dad got divorced again and 36 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: then married again and divorced again. So I am certainly 37 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:46,119 Speaker 1: an expert when it comes to parents getting divorced. And 38 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: you would think that my own experience, well, I'm sure 39 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: it was affected by that, but you would think that 40 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: that would have been really helpful. But when I was 41 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: separated and considering divorce, but everything is God. You know, 42 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: you do the best you can during difficult times. But 43 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: so my childhood was not idyllic by any stretch of 44 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: the imagination. My parents didn't speak to each other. There 45 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: really wasn't like a co parenting situation. I lived my 46 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: mom when she got remarried. We moved to Sugarland, Texas 47 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: of all places, and my dad was living in New 48 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: York City, and I guess you know, we went. I 49 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: have sister. I have one sister through my dad and 50 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: my mom. I have two brothers from my dad and 51 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: a stepmother who's no longer my stepmother. And then I 52 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: have a sister from my father and his third wife. 53 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: That sister is actually younger than my daughter. It's a 54 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: whole dysfunctional, fed up mess. But anyway, so I come 55 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: from a lot of chaos, and my parents and certainly 56 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: did not get along. They didn't really speak, and we 57 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: were shuttled back and forth a lot of craziness. So 58 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, when I met my husband, I well, first 59 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: of all, I was dying to have babies and get married, 60 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: even after all of the chaos that you know I 61 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: had been through as a kid. I really that biological 62 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: clock was kicking. I met Jeff and I was the 63 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: director of a dating service called It's Just Lunch and 64 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: the premise behind It's Just Lunch I actually think it 65 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: still exists, was that professionals are really, really busy and 66 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: nobody has time for dinner, necessarily on a first date, 67 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: and how about we just meet up for lunch or 68 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: a drink, see if there's a spark and move on. 69 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: So I was the director and which was really a 70 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: crazy job, but that's for another episode. I was the 71 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: director of this dating service and trying to get my 72 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: numbers up and get people to join, and reached out 73 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: to uh, Jeff Fessler because he had been a client 74 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: before I got there and his membership had expired. So 75 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: called him up one day and my name is Jen 76 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: and I would love to meet you. I know you 77 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: were a member and your membership has expired. And he's like, no, 78 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: thank you. It wasn't great for me, I'm not interested. 79 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: And being Jeff Fesslor, I was able to persuade him 80 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: and you know, you haven't met me yet. I'm the 81 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: new director, and I think that you know, you can 82 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: have a different experience anyway, So he came in like 83 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: that afternoon. 84 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 2: And he joined. He joined again. 85 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: But the interesting part of that was that he said, 86 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: you know you have all these questions you have to ask, 87 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: like what are you looking for? What are you looking for? 88 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: You know, mentally, emotionally, physically, and he's like, what am 89 00:05:59,000 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: I looking for? 90 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: Looking mirror? 91 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: And if you know Jeff, if any of you've ever 92 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: watched The Housewives or seen him on it, he's that's 93 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:10,559 Speaker 1: not really his personality. He's he's very introverted, sort of shy. 94 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: And so I didn't realize at the time what a 95 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: big deal that was. But so I said, no, sorry, 96 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 1: I have a boyfriend, which I didn't. I was not 97 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: attracted to him, not that he wasn't attractive. I just 98 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: didn't have a spark, and not to mention the fact 99 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: that I was, you know, I was working for this 100 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: company and really shouldn't be dating my clients. But that 101 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: was probably second to the fact that I didn't think. 102 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 2: There was a connection. 103 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: Anyway, he was very persistent and started calling me at 104 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: work and please, let's get together. We can just be friends, 105 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: and like, I just it's funny because I met him 106 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: for a drink and he walked into we had a 107 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: drink at the Four Seasons on fifty seventh Street. Anyway, 108 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: he walked in and I thought, not for me. Jeff 109 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: is five five. He likes to say he's five six. 110 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: And the only thing I cared about for sure at 111 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: that time when people would fix me up on blind 112 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: dates was that he had to be tall, because I 113 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: always had sort of like this complex about being a 114 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: bigger girl, and you know, careful what you wish for, 115 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: and what is that saying? We wait, we do something, 116 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: and God laughs, we plan and God laughs. Anyway, but 117 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: we became friends, but he was always still interested and 118 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't. But we played that little game and still 119 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: hung out, and eventually I told him i'd fix him up. 120 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: You know, I am the director of this dating service, 121 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: So come in and we'll talk, and I'll show you 122 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: some pictures of some of the women and tell me 123 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: who you like. And so he did that, and the 124 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: second he started to pick out those women that he liked, 125 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: I started to get really annoyed and I was like, 126 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: excuse me, you are in love with me? 127 00:07:58,960 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: What is happening here? 128 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: So I started to feel something for Jeff, and at 129 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: the time, I was dating someone else. Trying to kind 130 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: of wrap this up pretty quickly this part of the story, 131 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: you guys, but long story short on one particular day 132 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: I kissed the guy I was dating, and I kissed 133 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: Jeff Fessler, and I was. 134 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 135 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: Wait a second, it's Jeff Fessler. It is not this guy. 136 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: And very quickly I was like, wait, wait, wait, I 137 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: love Jeff Fessler. And very quickly after that we were engaged. 138 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: Very quickly after that, we were married. Very quickly after that, 139 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: we were pregnant. And so once I realized that he 140 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: was the one, he had kind of figured it out 141 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: before I did. I just I was like, you know, amen, 142 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: let's go, let's start. Let's get this part of my life, 143 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: rolling the family, the house in the suburbs, all of 144 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: it was. 145 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 2: It was so. 146 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: Exciting that time in my life. And you know, we'd 147 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: been really really close friends for a while, and once that, 148 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: once I kind of crossed over into falling in love 149 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: with Jeff, it was of course, it was more exciting 150 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: and different. But the basis of our relationship was always 151 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: that we were best friends. And today I would tell 152 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: you that that is the most important part of me 153 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: and Jeff Fessler. I mean, we are family and he 154 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: is everything to me. But I just I had that 155 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: with him always. I still have it today, and I 156 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: tell my kids all the time how important that is 157 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: to not just fall in love and have you know, 158 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: all of the pheromones and the hormones and the you know, 159 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: sparks and that kind of a sexual connection. But also 160 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: I really like the person you decide to spend your 161 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: life with right and to respect that person. And I 162 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: felt all of that for Jeff Fessler. So we get married, 163 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: and we do the newlywed thing, we do the new 164 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: parents thing, and four months after we got married, I 165 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: was pregnant and gave birth to my son in two thousand. 166 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, I gave birth to my daughter, and. 167 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 2: Was you know, just. 168 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to say playing that role. It's not 169 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: it's really not the way it felt. I was living 170 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: that life. I was just everything was about, you know, 171 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: the babies and Jeff and our new family. And I 172 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: guess like seven years into the marriage, well, things probably 173 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: started to change before that. Maybe they started to change 174 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: a little bit year five. I don't know, but I 175 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: I started hanging out with friends who loved going out 176 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: on Thursday nights in my town and we would go 177 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: out to whatever local restaurant or bar and we would 178 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: drink and we would flirt with guys and there wasn't 179 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: anything specific happening. I wasn't I didn't have an affair, 180 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: but I sort of like started to check out a 181 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: little bit and I started to crave that attention that 182 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: I did for years from men. I had lots of 183 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: daddy issues, but I always felt the need to draw 184 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: a man's attention. And you know the beginning when you 185 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: have little babies, I wasn't feeling that as much, and 186 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, I was like I started 187 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: to started to need attention from men again, and so 188 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: it was kind of like a thing. I mean, I 189 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: don't know how I found this group of women that 190 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: also wanted to go out on Thursday nights. Because you know, 191 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: my best friends who are still my best friends today, 192 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: a lot of them have been divorced, but there are 193 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: some of them that didn't really crave that. I don't 194 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: know if that's just where I was at in my 195 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: life and Jeff and I were not connecting. He was 196 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: working crazy long hours. He was an associate who was 197 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: trying to make partner and at a law firm as 198 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: a lawyer, and so he was traveling all the time 199 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: and you know, I used to with the kids and 200 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: another friend of mine know, his husband was traveling all 201 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: the time. We always said we were like sister wives, 202 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: and it was like, you know, four kids together and 203 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: the two of us getting them through anyway. So I 204 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: was out there as my point and my marriage was 205 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: definitely not my priority at that time, and it wasn't 206 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: for Jeff either, and so, you know, we were just 207 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: not connecting. We were not connecting on an emotional level, 208 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: and we were not connecting on a physical level. And 209 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: eventually I discovered at about year seven, I guess that 210 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: Jeff had an affair, and yeah, that was that was 211 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: a hard day. Podcast is not long enough for me 212 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: to get into all of the details of it all, 213 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: but I will tell you that it was a very 214 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: strange thing. This woman that Jeff was involved with and 215 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: I had this conversation and I don't know, I knew 216 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: almost immediately that something was up. But that's not the 217 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: point of this whole big picture story. But I, as 218 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: you would expect, completely lost my mind. I'm saying all 219 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: of this to you first about my going out on 220 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: Thursday nights and the headspace I was in because I 221 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: do believe that if it was just a matter of 222 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: time before it was me. And so everybody, you know, 223 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: got so much feedback and advice, and I remember, just 224 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: like my mom saying, how could you stay with him? 225 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: But I guess I knew there was a part of 226 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: me that knew that that not only does it take 227 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: too But I almost felt lucky that it was him first, 228 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: because I could place all the blame on him. But 229 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: I had been flirting with other guys and whatever. I 230 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: know that I was headed in that direction. Once I 231 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: discovered that Jeff had had an affair, we probably spent 232 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: I guess about a year still together. And this summer 233 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: after it happened, I said to him, I'm going to 234 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: Florida because I'd had lots of friends in Florida. My 235 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: sister was in Florida. I'm taking the kids for the summer, 236 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: and I just need some space. This was not a separation, 237 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: This was just I just want to go to Florida. 238 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: I want to, you know, be by my friends, be 239 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: by my sister. Found a little rental, went to Florida, 240 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: and not only found a little rental, found myself a 241 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: little boyfriend. And so the end of that summer I'll 242 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: never forget. Jeff came to visit and I told him 243 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: that I wanted a separation. And it's interesting because I 244 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: remember when he came to visit and we actually took 245 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: the kids to Disney, and when he left, I just 246 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: will never forget my son, just being so distraught. I 247 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: want to go home, I want daddy. You know, I 248 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: didn't factor in when I got separated. I guess because 249 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: I had been through so much divorce. I didn't factor 250 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: and how hard it was going to be, not only 251 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: on my kids, but to watch my kids in that 252 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: kind of pain. You know, they weren't. My parents were 253 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: divorced when I was three, and then they got divorced 254 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: again and again and again and again, and so you know, 255 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: my mind, kids are resilient, but it was a whole 256 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: other level of difficult. And you know, I think probably 257 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: every mother and father feels that. Right when heard it 258 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: said that, like when you're getting divorced, you get to 259 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: the point if you go through with your divorce, where 260 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: nothing matters except that you can't be with this person 261 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: anymore because it's so hard. It's so hard, especially if 262 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: you have kids. Well it's hard even if you don't, obviously, 263 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: but it's so hard to watch your kids go through 264 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: this with you, and so I guess I think a 265 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: lot of people get to the point where they're like, Okay, listen, 266 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: the kids are resilient. I don't care about the money, 267 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: I don't care about being alone. I just can't be 268 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: in this marriage anymore. But that was not the case 269 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: with me or Jeff. So but I had this boyfriend, 270 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: and I was convinced that, you know, it was time 271 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: and that I on it a divorce. So I went 272 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: back to Jersey and Jeff moved out and he moved 273 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: into New York City and was distraught, I have to say, 274 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: and the boyfriend, my boyfriend at the time, moved to 275 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: Jersey from Florida. I did so many things wrong, you guys, 276 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: that I wouldn't not do again and that I'm sorry for, 277 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: even though in the end there's a happy ending. But 278 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, I was so caught up in this feeling 279 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: of my heart racing from this guy, and you know, 280 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: he's a nice guy. 281 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 2: He was a very nice guy. 282 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: And this passion that I was feeling and that just 283 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: took over in a way, and I would have I 284 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: had to do it again, I would have slowed things 285 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: way down and I would have, you know, potentially just happened. 286 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: It all seemed to happen so fast, and him moving 287 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: to New Jersey and introducing him to my kids and 288 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: you know, them forming a relationship. So you know, you 289 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: live and learn. And the thing is, though, you know, 290 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: Jeff and I were separated for a year and a 291 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,719 Speaker 1: half going on two. But the whole time we were separated, 292 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: we just didn't seem to move forward in the divorce proceedings. 293 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: So we got a mediator, and which was an easy 294 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: choice to make because there wasn't a lot of animosity 295 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: there anything. There was just like I just felt so 296 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: sad and so badly because Jeff really did not want 297 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: to get divorced, although we did. He got a girlfriend also, 298 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 1: but we would like I don't know, there was no 299 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: screaming at each other over money. I remember at one 300 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: point I said to him, listen, I'm not worried. I 301 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: don't we don't need a lawyer because I know you, 302 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: I know your heart, I know what kind of father 303 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: you are. I'm not at all worried that you're gonna 304 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: screw me. I trust you, and I'm sure that people 305 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: everywhere friends I don't remember at the time, they were 306 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,479 Speaker 1: probably like, you're you're a freaking idiot. But I just 307 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: I knew him. I know Jeff Wessler, and so we 308 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: didn't like, we weren't at each other's throats. When the 309 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: kids would call UH to complain about I don't know 310 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: daddy said this or Daddy did that. I was sort 311 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: of like, honey, you died the wrong number. Do not 312 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: complain about your father to me. And you know, he 313 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: was the same. We were just very respectful of each 314 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: other and sad and just very very sad. And eventually 315 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: there's a lot that that went down. But eventually we 316 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: were both on vacation. Jeff took the kids to beaches 317 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: in Jamaica maybe and I at that time went to 318 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: Saint Bart's, very glamorous with my boyfriend. And the whole 319 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: time I was there, I was so sad. And it 320 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with this guy. Again, perfectly lovely, guy, 321 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: treated me very well, but I just missed my family. 322 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: And when I would talk to Jeff and the kids, 323 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: you know, and they were in a whole different they 324 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: were at all inclusive, and I don't know I was 325 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,959 Speaker 1: at this glamorous hotel, it was like, you know, a 326 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: fortune and hob nobbing with the rich and famous, and 327 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: all I wanted to do was like be at the 328 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: buffet at beaches in Jamaica, and I just, I guess 329 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: I just missed Jeff. I just missed him terribly. So 330 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: got back from vacation and would like lie to my 331 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: boyfriend and tell him I was going to go into mediation. 332 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: And meanwhile I was like meeting Jeff at Chili's and 333 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: just talking, and you know, he was so certain that 334 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: we were making a mistake the whole time, and I 335 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: think I was. I also, I knew in my heart 336 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: that it was a mistake, because again, it's not easy 337 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: to get divorced. I think that most people, maybe not everyone, 338 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: but most people that do, they're they're pretty positive, right, 339 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: And I just didn't want to live my life without Jeffessler. 340 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: And there were so many reasons for it. Jeff Fessler 341 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: made and makes me feel safe and makes me feel peaceful. 342 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: I heard said this maybe mel Robbins said something once. 343 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: It resonated with me, and it was that he's, like 344 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: she said, don't wish to fall madly in love, wish 345 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: to fall peacefully in love. And I know, like at 346 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: the beginning of any relationship, there's the sparks fly, and 347 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: there's all of that energy, and you know, excitement and 348 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: crazy sex and all of that, not always but hopefully. 349 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: But I would say, and I have said to my kids, 350 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: all of that after a while, it's not that it 351 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: goes away entirely, but life gets real. And so that 352 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: did definitely dissipate for us that excitement and life got real, 353 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: and I think that we both were looking for that 354 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: excitement again as opposed to looking to each other to 355 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: find it and to put it back into our marriage. 356 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: I say all this to you, by the way, I'm 357 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: not a marriage counselor this is just I'm just this 358 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: is just you know, my experience. But we again, we 359 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: went to Chili's and then it was Valentine's Day and 360 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: he bought me these little earrings and it was like, okay, enough, 361 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: this is clearly we are not ready to get divorced. 362 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: But we also knew that we couldn't get back together 363 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: and then have it happen again. Right, you can't do 364 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: that to your kids again. So we had long conversations 365 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: and I just knew that I didn't want to live 366 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: my life without Jeff Fessler it not only in it, 367 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: but you know, as my husband, and so we made 368 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: that decision and try again. I remember we went my 369 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: kids always went to Sleepway Camp and we went to 370 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: visiting day and we sat down and we're like, you know, 371 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: we have to tell you something. 372 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 2: We are getting back together. 373 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: And I just remember them staring at us and like 374 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: it was like you, guys, I promise, I promise you, 375 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: this is not going to happen again. And I don't 376 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: remember the exact words that I use, but you know 377 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: they were confused, of course, and happy, of course. And 378 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: we sold our house because it was just time for 379 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: a fresh start and same town, moved into a new 380 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: house and actually we're in our third house here in 381 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: Upper Saltle River where we live, and we started again. 382 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: So let me just say, of all, I am not 383 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: suggesting that anyone following the path that Jefffessler and I did, 384 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that separation for sure is the answer. 385 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: I can only speak from my own experience and say 386 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: that things changed, and they changed for better. It's funny 387 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: because in my town, like a lot of small suburban towns, 388 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: everybody talks, right. So like when we got separated, everybody talked. 389 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: When you know, everybody knew about our infidelity, and everybody 390 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: knew when I had the new boyfriend and whatever. But 391 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: when we got back together, I think that's probably when 392 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: people started talking the most. And I started getting phone 393 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: calls from a lot of women confidentially reaching out and saying, listen, 394 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: I you know whatever, I really am not I want 395 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: to get separated, but I'm not sure I want to 396 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: get divorced or women that were separated, and how'd you 397 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: do it? 398 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: What did you do? 399 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: How did you manage to get back together? And I 400 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: don't even know, and I didn't know then. I really 401 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: don't know now if there's a clear cut answer. I 402 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: just I couldn't divorce him. I thank God because I 403 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: feel blessed every day that our marriage survived and that, 404 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, our family is intact. But I just didn't 405 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: have that conviction. I guess that I wanted to live 406 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: without my husband, and we were both humble enough to also. 407 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: We went to therapy, of course, and I admit our 408 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: mistakes and talk about the infidelities and talk about, you know, 409 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: where things went wrong and how we took each other 410 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: for granted, and so yeah, so we got back together 411 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: and life began again. We've been married for twenty five years, 412 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: and so I'll tell you that my marriage is not perfect, 413 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: and I am certainly not perfect. I am the biggest 414 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: pain in the ass. Jeff is close to perfect. I 415 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: would say that he's an amazing father, and he is 416 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: an amazing man, just a good man. If any of 417 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: you at there are Jewish or no, the word mentch, 418 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: that's what Jeff is. 419 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: Good man. 420 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: And I'm very lucky and he puts up with a 421 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: lot of shit. I am messy, I am at times lazy, cranky, nasty, 422 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: and my husband is very very patient. He's not perfect either, 423 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: so let me say that. And he can also drive 424 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: me crazy. But I see in him I feel it 425 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: has this. I feel lucky all the time, I feel 426 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: like very I feel just very lessed. So fast forward, 427 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: I guess all these years, I will tell you that 428 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: Jeff and I are not We are not guided by 429 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: this spar I use that word. I hope you guys 430 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: relate to it. In other words, we ain't hanging from 431 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: the chandeliers, right, We're not like And that's not to 432 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: say that I'm not trying to put down our sex 433 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: life or our connection. I'm just trying to be real 434 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 1: and tell you that those things are good, but they 435 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: are not we are I am fifty six, Jeff is 436 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: sixty two years old. So that is not our priority. 437 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: And people, you know a lot of people would disagree 438 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: with me and do disagree with me that that has 439 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: to be a huge priority, right, sex and date night 440 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: and connection, and we're together all the time obviously, but 441 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: I don't know that our marriage is based on that stuff. 442 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: And that's not to say I don't know if it's good, bad, 443 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: or I don't know. I'm just this is what is 444 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: for us, and we are to this day. We are 445 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: best friends. We are parents of these, you know, two 446 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: incredible people. And you know, my sister has been through 447 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: divorce and many many of my friends have. But she 448 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: always says to me that she's specifically because of the kids. 449 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: She's I don't know, jealous is the right word. She's 450 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: my sister, but she wishes that she had family unit 451 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: and that it's so nice to you know, be able 452 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: to eat together, the four of us after all of 453 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: these years, and so I feel very very lucky about that. 454 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: Right. 455 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: No one will love to love your kids as much 456 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: as your as much as their father or their mother. 457 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: You know, you're whoever you made them with, and nobody's 458 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: ever going to be as invested right as the two 459 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: of you. But things are different now, oh god, they 460 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: are so different now, certainly than before we were separated. 461 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: But even you know, over the years things have changed 462 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: and we're getting older, and so you know, when people 463 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: ask about the state of my marriage, like, I always 464 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,959 Speaker 1: talk about the stuff that I love about it. I mean, 465 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: I can tell you things I don't love about it, 466 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: but the things that I love about it. So I 467 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: love going on vacation with Jeff Essler. We've traveled a 468 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: lot together, and what I love about it is that 469 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: we've developed this rhythm and we kind of like he 470 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: knows and I know exactly when we go on vacation. 471 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: We plan it all around the three meals every day. 472 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: Where are we eating breakfast, luncheon, dinner. And we are 473 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: like when I say foodies, I don't mean we're fancy, 474 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: We're not, but we are both well, that's what we 475 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: care about the most is where are we eating? Of course, 476 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: the sight seeing, of course, seeing different places, meeting different people, 477 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: but there's a limit to that. Because we know that 478 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: we know that I'm done after the morning of sight seeing, 479 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: like that the afternoon has to be you know, chill 480 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: and whatever that looks like. And that we're going to 481 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: go out to dinner early because I need to be 482 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: in bed by ten. And Jeff has adopted that way 483 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: of vacationing and he's also like that. Now you know, 484 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. We have a rhythm and we we 485 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: understand each other. We laugh a lot. We also fight. 486 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: I don't know about a lot, but we definitely fight. 487 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 2: We laugh a lot. 488 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: It's there's this I don't there's this piece in my 489 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: house that I did not have growing up and shout 490 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: out to peace. So so funny. My friends who are single, 491 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: I've set them up. I try to, and I say, 492 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of them who are my age yet 493 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: a little younger, a little older, and sometimes they don't 494 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: connect with whoever they're dating, and you know, on the 495 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: first date or the second date, and you know, there's 496 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: a lot of I don't know, I don't see myself 497 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: having sex with them, or I don't see my heart's 498 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: not racing. 499 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: I don't know. 500 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: I'm and I could be wrong about this, but if 501 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: I was single. Now, what I'd be looking for is 502 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily that spark. I think that's great if you 503 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: find it. I'd be looking for. 504 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 2: Peace. 505 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: I'd be looking for companionship. I'd be looking for someone 506 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: whose life views matched my own, someone that I could 507 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: have fun with and who is solid, and who would 508 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: like Jeff actually, interestingly, interestingly enough, comes from the opposite 509 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: childhood that I had. His parents were married for over 510 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: fifty years. Two of the most wonderful humans that have 511 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: ever walked the face of this earth. Max and Phyllis 512 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: Wessler were just everything. I get choked up even talking 513 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: about them. They had the most beautiful marriage and he 514 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: just lived and died for her the same. But she 515 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: felt the same. But she had a lot of health 516 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: issues and he just always took care of her. And 517 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: he set this example. I think, for Jeff, you know 518 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: of what a good husband looks like, and I you know, 519 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: people you know I'm honest about Jeff's affair and about then. 520 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: I had my own fairs plural. But Jeff is the 521 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: kind of husband that just shows up period and shows 522 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: up for his kids. 523 00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 2: Help. 524 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: I think I'm all over the place, you guys, excuse 525 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: me if I am, but like you know, this is 526 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: I don't know why the story is popping into my head. 527 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: But when my son was graduating middle school, Jeff had 528 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: won this award, this huge award. He won Lawyer of 529 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: the Year. He's a securities attorneys, so like in his area, 530 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: I want to say, City Bank sponsored this. It was 531 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: a huge event where he was being honored and it 532 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: fell on the same day as middle school graduation. And 533 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: I was like, Jeff, I'm sorry, but Zach's not going 534 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: to make his middle school graduation either. We're going We're 535 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: going to this gala honoring you. And for me, there 536 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: was no question. I was like, this is a once 537 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: in a lifetime and he was not having it and 538 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: he had have someone from his office be there to 539 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: take his place. And I'm bragging about that because I'm 540 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: so proud of that that because I know that if 541 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: it was me and someone was honoring me for being 542 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: the best friend of a housewife ever, they could have 543 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: been graduating from college. We were going to that party. 544 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: And so I bring other things to the table. But 545 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: I am a little on the a little on the 546 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: selfish side, but you know, that's that's just who he is. 547 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 2: And so today. Here we are, you know, we are 548 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: in our are you know, golden years. I don't know. 549 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 1: We're middle age, little older than middle age now, and 550 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: life is hard and it has dealt us blows like 551 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: it does us all and we do the best we 552 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: can and we fight, and we have unhappy moments and 553 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:48,959 Speaker 1: unhappy periods of time. But I don't know, I feel very, 554 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: very lucky to have made my marriage work. And you know, 555 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: to know that I'm growing old with this person who 556 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: is just he's just so nice to me. I mean, 557 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: it sounds so silly, right, but he is. He's so 558 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: nice to me, and I try to be so nice 559 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: to him and just appreciate him. And we're very different, 560 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: you know. I'm I am outgoing, I'm an extrovert. Jeff's 561 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: an introvert. I remember at the beginning of our marriage 562 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 1: used to really annoy me because we would go out 563 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: with other couples and Jeff was very quiet. He is 564 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: very quiet, not at home at all and not in work, 565 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: but he socially he can be and so he wouldn't 566 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: say much. 567 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 2: And I used to get bess it fights on the 568 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 2: way home. 569 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: And now it's like I don't give a shit and 570 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: he talks to me. He has something to say, and 571 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: he bonds with the guys that he bonds with, and 572 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: he's actually enjoys being social more than I do. 573 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 2: It's up to Jeff. 574 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: We would go out at least twice a week. Once 575 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: a week is more than I'd like to be going out, 576 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: but he's into it and he loves being social. He 577 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: loves all this reality TV stuff and the house. I 578 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: love it too, but he really loves it. But I 579 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: used to get so mad at him, and now as 580 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: we've gotten older, it just does not bother me at all. 581 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: There are other things that bother me. There are there 582 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: things that we disagree on. He gets mad at me 583 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: for I mean, many things, but it's just different. It's 584 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: like we went through it and it was it really sucked, 585 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: and we learned from it, I guess, and we are 586 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: both so grateful to be where we are today. You know, 587 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: we're not in couples therapy anymore, but that definitely helped. 588 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 2: I would definitely recommend that you know we are. I 589 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 2: don't know. 590 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: Our house is very peaceful. That's what I want for 591 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: my kids and for anyone who's listening, I would tell 592 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: you that, yes, fall madly in love. I want passion 593 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: for the people that I love. I want them to 594 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: experience romance and passion and everything that goes along with it. 595 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying it's not still part of my marriage. 596 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: He walks to the door, and sometimes my heart does 597 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: skip a little beat. I'm very proud of him, but 598 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: that is not the basis of it. The basis of 599 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: us is. You know, it might sound funny since I've 600 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: talked about infidelity, but it's trust and it's respect to 601 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: mutual respect. He is smart and I love that. I 602 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: know he's very proud of me for all this the 603 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: silly world that I've become part of, but he loves it. 604 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: He loves watching me do my thing, and he tells 605 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: me appreciates me. And you know, even the podcast that 606 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: I do with Jackie, the fact that I'm doing I 607 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: do part two today. You know, he's always like, I know, 608 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: he's very very proud of me. We're good to each other. 609 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, that's that's kind of our story, 610 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 1: and it's you know, we haven't had a perfect story, 611 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't change it. I say that, Yeah, No, 612 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. Like I don't again, I'm not recommending separation, 613 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: but for some reason, it was probably the best thing 614 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: that ever happened to us, and so I'm grateful for it. So, uh, 615 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: you know, I get asked sometimes if we would ever 616 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: do like a vow renewal. Nah, you will say that, 617 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: I mean, no, I don't know. 618 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 2: We're not Jeff. Jeff is not one for words. I 619 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 2: don't know. 620 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we write each other beautiful cards, but I 621 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: don't see that for us. I think it would just 622 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: be I think it's a beautiful. It's beautiful when people 623 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: do it, but for us, it would just probably be 624 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: kind of cheesy. And I think we're just there's no 625 00:38:52,960 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: question now that we're permitted and our vows are in place. Listen, ever, 626 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: say never feel. I feel as positive as I could 627 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: that our marriage is now going to last till death 628 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: do us part. But again, you never know, So listen 629 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: for anyone out there who maybe is thinking about reconciling 630 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: with an ex if there's a chance. And I'm not 631 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: saying an ex necessarily a boyfriend, Like if you're married, 632 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: if you have kids and you're thinking about it a 633 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: little bit. You know, if you're asking me, I'm gonna 634 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: tell you, yeah, like pursue that. Maybe have some more conversation, 635 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, maybe go to mediation and therapy, maybe go 636 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: to Chili's and have a margarita and try to speak 637 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: nicely to each other if there's still that heart in 638 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: you that's not sure. You know, divorce is hard. It's 639 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: hard on the people that are getting divorced. It's hard 640 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: on the man. It's hard on the woman or the 641 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: two men or the two women, and it's hard on 642 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:13,720 Speaker 1: the kids. So for me, it worked to try again. 643 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: So if there's a chance, I would encourage you to 644 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: try to explore it, because it is. It's really nice 645 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: to have been married for twenty five years. Actually though 646 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: excuse me, Jeff says twenty three. He won't give me 647 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: the twenty five because of the two years we were separated, 648 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: But I'm telling him twenty five, especially when it is 649 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: time for gifts. So but I wish everybody out there love, 650 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: whether it's your part two, your part three, you're part four, 651 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: whatever that looks like, whatever form that it takes, and 652 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: you know, if it means divorce, I'm also for that. 653 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: You know, nobody I don't. I wouldn't have wanted to 654 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: set an example for my kids of being unhappy and 655 00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: living unhappy and fighting constantly, and I don't think that's healthy. 656 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: I know that's not healthy. So there are, of course 657 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: cases where divorce is the way to go. We got lucky, 658 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: so I you know, I recommend if you're having doubts 659 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: to at least respect those doubts. Maybe, And I hope though, 660 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: if you do or if you don't, that you are 661 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: at peace and happy in your relationships, are happy alone, 662 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: or if you're at the beginning of your relationship, if 663 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: you're at the beginning of a marriage, if you're beginning 664 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: of your second marriage, I recommend I don't know, mutual 665 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: respect and friendship and laughs, lots and lots of laughter. Okay, guys, 666 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: so thank you so much for allowing me to tell 667 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: you my little story here. I really love what this 668 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 1: podcast is about, and I hope that maybe sharing my 669 00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 1: experience may help someone going through something similar. You know, 670 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: if you're separated, if you're going through divorce, you can 671 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: always if you have questions, please DM me, Please reach out, 672 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: you can call, you can email, follow us on socials. 673 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: All the information is going to be in the show notes, 674 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,400 Speaker 1: and you can rate the show You can review it 675 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: if you feel like it. I would love it, but 676 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: I do. Part two is an iHeartRadio podcast where falling 677 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: in love is the main objective. Thank you guys very 678 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 1: much for listening.