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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan.

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Speaker 1: I've never told you a production of iHeartRadio, y'all. Today

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Speaker 1: is a very exciting day for me because again I'm

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Speaker 1: bringing in the TikTok world, the social media world where

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Speaker 1: I get so much information and such good content into

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Speaker 1: our podcast with the multi talented She's a historian, a documentarian,

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Speaker 1: of musician, just overall multi talent, so many things under

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Speaker 1: her belt, Dara star Tucker. Yeah, can you kind of

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Speaker 1: tell our listeners about yourself? Well, yes, I mean you

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Speaker 1: kind of you kind of said it. I'm a singer,

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Speaker 1: I'm a songwriter. I think my bio says singer, song writer,

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Speaker 1: social media commentator, and satirist. So I try to make

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Speaker 1: it a little bit alliterative so that it's it's easy

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Speaker 1: to follow. But those are the essential things that I do.

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Speaker 1: I am, by trade a jazz singer, and I have

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Speaker 1: gotten into the social media space in the last three

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Speaker 1: years or so on TikTok and now Instagram, Facebook, I'm

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Speaker 1: you know, just everywhere these days, kind of sharing my

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Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings about cough culture. But then how race

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Speaker 1: and culture kind of intersect and intermingle with you know,

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Speaker 1: all of the things that we spend our time consuming,

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Speaker 1: and so then that sort of veers into a little

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Speaker 1: bit of the media literacy territory, which I love. And

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Speaker 1: then I've shared some of my so called deconstruction journey

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Speaker 1: out out of traditional religion. I've shared some of that

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Speaker 1: type of content. So yeah, I do a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. There's so much and I love it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie again. I'm so excited because I've

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Speaker 1: been following you for a while now and your TikTok

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Speaker 1: is so original. The content that you produce and come

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Speaker 1: out with is so thought provoking and original, and it's

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Speaker 1: just something that I feel like could be passed on

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Speaker 1: to my conservative family that they would actually listen and

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Speaker 1: have so much to think on because you give so

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Speaker 1: much good contact and information. But on top of that,

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Speaker 1: you are so talented. Your rendition Moon River, it was gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: It was gorgeous. So yeah, I obviously am fangirling a

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Speaker 1: little bit because you are a woman of so many

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Speaker 1: talents and I know you have so much that you

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Speaker 1: can tell us, And yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and

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Speaker 1: give our listeners a warning because you do have such

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Speaker 1: great content. There's so many questions that we have. There's

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Speaker 1: so many things that we want to ask you and

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Speaker 1: get your opinions and expertise, because again, have so much

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Speaker 1: on your page weather it is all this information of

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Speaker 1: historical stuff or your satire of your mother. I love

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Speaker 1: it so much and so so good. But yeah, listeners

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Speaker 1: be warned. You if you've listened to it the show before,

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Speaker 1: you know me as the person who jumps all around anyway,

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Speaker 1: But I'm super excited and you have so much, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's probably gonna happen here and hopefully hopefully, as I

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Speaker 1: say with my with my content, I hope that it

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Speaker 1: lives together. Well I think it done ultimately, does I

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Speaker 1: think you so much goodness with a little bit of

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Speaker 1: break of like education as well as you got that

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Speaker 1: break for funniness as well as that beautiful music. I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course. And then we're going to talk a little

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Speaker 1: more about later. But you're also a podcaster too, so

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Speaker 1: obviously you're a part of the fam, right, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, when it comes to your content, speaking of

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Speaker 1: how do you balance the education with the openness of

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Speaker 1: your own personal experiences as well as highlighting your career.

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Speaker 1: How do you balance all of that just a variety

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Speaker 1: of content you're asking about. Yeah, honestly, I try to

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Speaker 1: just I try. It's going to sound really corny, but

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Speaker 1: I try to lead with the heart. I really do,

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Speaker 1: and I think, you know, until your content becomes corporatized

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Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, you can do that.

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Speaker 1: You can say what type of content do I feel

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Speaker 1: like creating today, and you can just create that. And

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Speaker 1: that's the best part of what I do is that

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Speaker 1: it really is an expression of all of these various

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Speaker 1: parts of me. You know, I wrestled and wrangled with

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Speaker 1: myself even to get into the social media commentator space

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Speaker 1: because I am a singer. You know, that was a challenge.

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Speaker 1: You know, in twenty twenty, it was like I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to speak out and I had so much to say,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, well, people only know me as this,

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Speaker 1: they really only know me as a singer, and are

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Speaker 1: they going to accept me doing something else? And I

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Speaker 1: was that I had a real fear. I had a

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Speaker 1: real concern about even expressing that part of myself. But then,

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Speaker 1: you know, I led with the heart when it came

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Speaker 1: to entering that space, and that is really the thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how I quite feel about that, but

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Speaker 1: that's the thing, rather than my music, its represented. You know,

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Speaker 1: this this kind of explosion into the you know, the

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Speaker 1: social media space where a lot of people now know

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Speaker 1: who I am, and so I have to I just

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Speaker 1: kind of have to take my cues from from that.

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Speaker 1: It's like there was a there was a leading, there

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Speaker 1: was a guiding, there was an unction to use these

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Speaker 1: religious words that told me like, hey, this is your path,

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Speaker 1: this is what you're supposed to do. And so I try.

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Speaker 1: I try to lead with that no matter what I do.

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Speaker 1: And I've had I have had literal um social media

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Speaker 1: manager companies, you know, say hey, we would be able

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Speaker 1: to work with you if you were to just post

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Speaker 1: this one kind of thing, if you were to just

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Speaker 1: do this one thing, like you're adding the music and

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Speaker 1: the comedy and this stuff is cool, and you know,

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Speaker 1: some people are enjoying it, but they're not finding it

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Speaker 1: like they're finding these breakdowns. So you know, if you

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Speaker 1: just focus on this one thing, then you know that

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Speaker 1: could open you up to be able to get all

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Speaker 1: of these sponsorships. And I just I cannot subject myself

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Speaker 1: to that type of limitation because I know that that

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Speaker 1: would be cifling to me. So i'm I'm I just

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Speaker 1: enjoy what I do and if things get too heavy

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Speaker 1: and too intense with talking about things like racism and

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Speaker 1: you know that that kind of thing, then I can

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Speaker 1: just do a sketch by my mom, like I said,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm happy again. And that's that's so interesting

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Speaker 1: because we know when it comes to social media, when

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Speaker 1: it gets to bleak, it's it's it's a lot of work.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I know, as we

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Speaker 1: have come on to podcasting about feminism and women's issues

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Speaker 1: and marginalized issues, it gets heavy very quickly, and our

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Speaker 1: listeners will take that, I guess are a part of that,

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Speaker 1: but they also love the parts that we are really

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Speaker 1: personal and breaking down the realities of who we are,

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Speaker 1: and that means seeing our sense of humor and seeing

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Speaker 1: our backgrounds and seeing what we love. So boo on

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Speaker 1: the social media people they're wrong, tell them that, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate all that content, thank you. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: that's the coolest thing. When people come along to a

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Speaker 1: post of me singing or opposed to me doing some

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Speaker 1: silly sketch about you know, I have a character called

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Speaker 1: Shelby's mom who just stands at the door, yes members

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Speaker 1: that her daughter about being too woke and you know,

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Speaker 1: all the silly stuff. But I it's really cool when

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Speaker 1: people know me for you know, these breakdowns that talk

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Speaker 1: about you know whatever, racial and equity and these deep

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Speaker 1: cultural issues. And then they see this ridiculous thing that

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Speaker 1: I'm post seeing your you know, putting on a wig

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Speaker 1: and playing my mother and just being just utterly silly,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, what, weren't you the same person who

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Speaker 1: was just talking about you know whatever it is jerry

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Speaker 1: mandering yesterday. And they're like, oh, this is really cool.

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Speaker 1: But it takes a minute, I think sometimes for people

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Speaker 1: to kind of go, you know what, huh, And then

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Speaker 1: if they can embrace the totality of who you are

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Speaker 1: and what you have to offer, then you know, they

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Speaker 1: just relax into it. Then it just becomes like, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: this is you know what she's doing today. This is

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Speaker 1: somebody that I appreciate and who has a voice that I,

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Speaker 1: you know, want to pay attention to. I appreciate her perspective,

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Speaker 1: whatever she's doing, and I'm just kind of here for it.

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Speaker 1: That's the coolest thing for me, and we do appreciate it,

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Speaker 1: thank you. But yes, you are a celebrated, award winning

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Speaker 1: musician and you do share your love of music with

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Speaker 1: your followers, including like a lot of really behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes stuff that's really cool, like on episodes on women

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Speaker 1: are around, like Martha Mirrors or Martie Nixon, like ghost singers.

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Speaker 1: It's really really fascinating. So when you look at the

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Speaker 1: history of women like these, what are some of the

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Speaker 1: things that you find the most fascinating and why do

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Speaker 1: you think that stories like those are so important to tell? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned Marnie Nixon, who is who was

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Speaker 1: known as Hollywood's greatest ghost singer. She did singing for

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Speaker 1: Natalie Wood in West Side Stories. She sang for I Believe,

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Speaker 1: Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady, and Deborah Carr and

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Speaker 1: The King and I And she was kind of known

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Speaker 1: as this, you know, person behind the scenes that was

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Speaker 1: known by Hollywood but wasn't known by the general public.

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Speaker 1: And it was like one of those kind of open

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Speaker 1: secrets that these actresses were not really singing for themselves.

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Speaker 1: And then you have someone like Martha Wash who did

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Speaker 1: the singing for the song you know, everybody does now

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Speaker 1: the C and C Music Factory, and that was one

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Speaker 1: of my biggest videos last year. That's where a lot

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Speaker 1: of people came to know who I am because of

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Speaker 1: talking about her. But she's a plus sized black woman

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Speaker 1: who did this hook, this very famous hook, and sang

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Speaker 1: on a bunch of other stuff that people know, like

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Speaker 1: house music, and was kind of underacknowledged. So I think,

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Speaker 1: when you know, we're talking about women like this, who

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Speaker 1: who have been kind of the voice behind the voice

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Speaker 1: for women that were perceived as more attractive, more palatable

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Speaker 1: for the general public, and who never got there, just

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Speaker 1: do I think there's a there's a point of identification

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Speaker 1: that'll let a lot of people have with that, because

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Speaker 1: you know who who among us has not felt like, well,

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Speaker 1: well if I just had this, if I just you know,

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Speaker 1: if I were just more this or less that or whatever,

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Speaker 1: then people would see me. They would see my talent,

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Speaker 1: they would see my beauty, they would know that I

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Speaker 1: have all of these things to offer. I think we've

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Speaker 1: all felt that way to some degree, boxed in by life,

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Speaker 1: boxed in by expectations, especially if you have a career

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Speaker 1: in media in any respect or have aspired to have

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Speaker 1: a career in media. So I think there's just those

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Speaker 1: stories feel very personal. I think any story that I do,

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Speaker 1: and I tend to be attracted to those stories about

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Speaker 1: people who were cast aside or who were not given

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Speaker 1: something that they maybe should have had. I did a

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Speaker 1: story on a man named Eric Monte, who was a

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Speaker 1: black man who wrote for a couple of Norman Lear

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Speaker 1: shows and who felt that he was cheated out of

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Speaker 1: a lot of the credit and the profits that he

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Speaker 1: should have had. And those stories really spark, you know

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Speaker 1: something in people. It's just this and I have gotten

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Speaker 1: flooded with people reaching out saying the same thing happened

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Speaker 1: to me, and I did this, and you know this

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Speaker 1: credit was taken a way for me. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: just a universal topic. I think that just it just

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Speaker 1: hits a lot of people very very viscerally. It's true.

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Speaker 1: And you know, speaking of one of the most famous

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Speaker 1: incidents inside of my lifetime, outside of the Milivanili controversy,

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Speaker 1: of course, is the C and C Music Factory controversy.

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Speaker 1: I remember when that all came out and everyone's like,

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Speaker 1: that was not her singing with Martha wash Again. You

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Speaker 1: do an amazing breakdown of that incident, and it really

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Speaker 1: highlights the prejudice within the industry. She's a plus size

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Speaker 1: black woman and they were trying to kind of hide her.

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Speaker 1: Do you think the prejudices is still present today in

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Speaker 1: the music industry. Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I think all

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Speaker 1: it would take is just kind of seeing seeing what's

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Speaker 1: what is amplified, what is celebrated. I mean, people always

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Speaker 1: point to like Lizzo, but we have Lizzo now, and

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Speaker 1: it's great that we do, and it's great that there

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Speaker 1: are other plus size heroes that we have that we

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Speaker 1: can look to, because it certainly is better than it

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Speaker 1: was when I was young. But I don't think it

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Speaker 1: has changed that much. I think we have some very

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Speaker 1: important exceptions that are out there, but I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: those same rules still still apply, and I think people

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Speaker 1: will always be drawn to what they feel is beautiful,

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Speaker 1: and those in power will always be in the position

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Speaker 1: to define what that is. And so I just I

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Speaker 1: don't think that that will ever fully go away. But

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Speaker 1: I'm thankful that there are some very important exceptions. That

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Speaker 1: there is a body positivity and body acceptance movement that

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Speaker 1: is much more mainstream than it was even ten years ago,

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Speaker 1: so we can't deny that there has been progress, but

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, that those those standards still exist today, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, and going into deeper conversations about like massage

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Speaker 1: noir within both hip hop and both R and B.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that is being spoken out more recently,

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Speaker 1: maybe because of Megan the stallion or is it just

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Speaker 1: the same as it was and we're just knowing a word?

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Speaker 1: Does that question makes sense? I think, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think there have always been those folks who have been

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Speaker 1: willing to talk about that, and you know, have been

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Speaker 1: just speaking out about a variety of topics. It's just

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Speaker 1: funny because now there's TikTok, Now there's social media, and

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Speaker 1: now we have a community of people who can get

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Speaker 1: together and say, oh wait, you notice that I noticed

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Speaker 1: that too, and this is my point of view and

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Speaker 1: this is how I experience it, and this is the

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Speaker 1: thing that I noticed that maybe other people didn't get

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Speaker 1: this kind of nuanced thing about. So that's the beauty

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Speaker 1: of where we are now, is that we are having

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Speaker 1: national conversations that everyone can participate in, and so I

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Speaker 1: think we can help to move the ball forward at

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Speaker 1: a much fasterated at least amongst people who get a crap,

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Speaker 1: you know, and there's always going to be that element

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Speaker 1: of people who just you know, deny that there's a

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Speaker 1: problem or or or actively participating in in perpetuating those problems.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's it's really cool that conversations

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Speaker 1: about massage and noir in hip hop, in R and

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Speaker 1: B are happening. But you know, I think the problem.

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Speaker 1: It feels to me that the problem has not really

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Speaker 1: gotten much better unfortunately. Right, Yeah, Well, something else we

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Speaker 1: want to talk about. You also did a really cool

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Speaker 1: breakdown on the Elvis movie and the amazing musician Big

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Speaker 1: Mama Thornton. Can you talk about that in her life

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Speaker 1: and her contributions Big Mama Thornton, Yeah, she was. She

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Speaker 1: put out hound Dog in nineteen fifty two and it

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Speaker 1: was written by Lieber and Stoller. These are two Jewish

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Speaker 1: guys who wrote the song is incredible blue song for her.

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Speaker 1: They wrote this for Big Mama Thornton. And she was

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Speaker 1: a blue sing who was just she was plus size,

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Speaker 1: black woman, just big body. I mean, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you hear her version of hound Dog, it's just it's

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Speaker 1: unlike if you have never heard her original version of it.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's it's so completely unlike Elvis Presley's version.

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Speaker 1: But there were a couple of groups that covered hound

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Speaker 1: Dog after her, and I'm thinking it was Freddie and

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Speaker 1: the Freeloaders that did a version of it that Elvis

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Speaker 1: ended up hearing, and then he later covered it as

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Speaker 1: did many people. But of course his version became the

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Speaker 1: iconic version that most people know. Big Mama Thornton's version

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Speaker 1: was a hit in nineteen fifty two, so it wasn't

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Speaker 1: as though, you know, she got absolutely no recognition from it,

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Speaker 1: but she did not make a lot of money from it.

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Speaker 1: It was definitely relegated to the R and B world,

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Speaker 1: which at that time would have been called race music.

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Speaker 1: It was not played on mainstream radio, and she did

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Speaker 1: not become some you know, international phenomenon in the way

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Speaker 1: that was Presley did for for recording hound Dog. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole Elvis Presley conversation just it's just

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Speaker 1: with one of the topics I think that that gets

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Speaker 1: the most feedback in the commens Yeah. There, he's one

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Speaker 1: of those people that just will always have just avid

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Speaker 1: fans that feel the need to jump to his defense.

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Speaker 1: And you know, my feelings about Elvis are very complex.

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Speaker 1: I'm I am actually an Elvis fan. I like Elvis Presley,

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Speaker 1: and that is almost a curse. That's that's like a

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Speaker 1: scarlet letter in the black community. You just don't say that,

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Speaker 1: and I don't say it that much, but occasionally I

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Speaker 1: will cop to being a huge Elvis fan growing up.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's it's important to examine questions of

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Speaker 1: and I think you were speaking of the breakdown that

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Speaker 1: I did on the subject of cultural appropriation, but it's

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Speaker 1: important to talk about topics like that and Elvis just being,

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Speaker 1: you know, just the number one representative of the idea

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Speaker 1: of cultural appropriation, whether that's deserving or not. He was

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Speaker 1: the most He just was the most famous. He was

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Speaker 1: the one that benefited from it more than anyone. Right,

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Speaker 1: even if he personally was not necessarily antagonistic in his

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Speaker 1: treatment of black people, he had a lot of There

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Speaker 1: were a lot of black musicians that actually appreciated him,

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Speaker 1: and they embraced him, and they thought he was talented.

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Speaker 1: But then there's the other side of things, where you know,

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Speaker 1: he essentially took his sound from a black man named

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Speaker 1: Roy Hamilton. If people are not aware of who Roy

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Speaker 1: Hamilton Is. Just takes some time to look him up

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Speaker 1: on YouTube and you will know where elvis Is sound

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Speaker 1: came from. There was a writer named Otis Blackwell that

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Speaker 1: Elvis ended up getting partial credit for writing All Shook

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Speaker 1: Up and a couple of other songs that ODIs black

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Speaker 1: Will wrote. And Elvis sounds an awful lot like him too.

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Speaker 1: There's a performance of his that's on YouTube where you

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Speaker 1: can hear, you know, hear what he would have sounded

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Speaker 1: like seeing the demo for Elvis, so you know it's

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Speaker 1: it's a multilayered thing. And no, I didn't like the

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Speaker 1: Elvis movie, if that's what you were specifically asking, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: saying that we're Elvis fans. I felt guilty because I

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Speaker 1: actually did watch all of his movies as a kid.

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Speaker 1: I love musicals, I love all the things. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then looking back at it's like even feminists you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh man, he right, dat young babies, and that it's

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Speaker 1: real gross. Like looking at him historically, you're like, it's

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Speaker 1: not a good dude, but it's kind of that whole conversation.

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Speaker 1: And music is the prime example of cultural appropriation, slash stealing,

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Speaker 1: and erasure of black history, which we know, the origination

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Speaker 1: did come from the black community. Like we know all

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Speaker 1: of music where it came down to it is taken

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Speaker 1: from one culture. When we talk about this, how do

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Speaker 1: we do this in a respectful way where we yes,

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Speaker 1: we like some of these music. K Pop is one

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Speaker 1: of those things that I think about too, because right

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Speaker 1: now that's a point in terms, Yes, this is cultural

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Speaker 1: appropriation to an extent, and so the kind of like

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Speaker 1: the fine balance of like how do we learn to

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Speaker 1: appreciate at this and acknowledge the origination but still like

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Speaker 1: these maybe problematic things. Yeah, I did, as I said,

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Speaker 1: a breakdown called, you know, cultural appropriation versus appreciation, which

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Speaker 1: that that's been one of the more popular ones that

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Speaker 1: I've done because I think, you know, these are subjects

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Speaker 1: that if you if you just look them up in

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Speaker 1: the you know, the Encyclopedia definition or the dictionary definition,

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Speaker 1: you can you know, make draw one conclusion. But they

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Speaker 1: are nuanced subjects that really have to be discussed sometimes

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Speaker 1: on a case by case basis, and it's not always

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Speaker 1: The answers are not always straightforward, the lines are not

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Speaker 1: always black and white, no pun intended, but you know,

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Speaker 1: these conversations have to be had amongst people who are

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Speaker 1: deeply plugged into the culture and are deeply aware of

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Speaker 1: his historical context. And I think when you remove, especially

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Speaker 1: something like K pop from its historical context, then it's

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Speaker 1: you know, why are you guys getting so upset over this? Well,

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Speaker 1: people borrow from each other all the time, and you know,

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Speaker 1: people exchange cultures and ideas, and black people have taken

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Speaker 1: this and it just becomes you know, a big, a

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Speaker 1: big wash. It's just like, well, why are you mincing

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Speaker 1: over such silly things? Until you really step back and

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Speaker 1: start to examine the history, as you said, of where

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Speaker 1: a lot of you know, the music that we call

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Speaker 1: just popular music, where that really originated. And I did

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Speaker 1: another video called Who Invented rock and Roll? And it's

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Speaker 1: literally just a delineation, just a kind of a linear

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Speaker 1: delineation of the history of rock and roll. And there's

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Speaker 1: just so much that we take for granted. We just

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Speaker 1: kind of assume that certain things rose up from the

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Speaker 1: earth and that they're just here, because when you know,

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Speaker 1: by time we got here, it was all here. It

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Speaker 1: was like we were just all kind of partying and

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Speaker 1: hanging out and enjoying what we were enjoying and you

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Speaker 1: don't really think about the roots of it. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's important me being a musician that when you

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Speaker 1: enter into that sphere, regardless of the kind of music

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Speaker 1: that you're doing, that you really do take time to

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Speaker 1: become a student of music history, of the history of

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Speaker 1: the culture or the environment in which you are creating

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Speaker 1: that art. And it's it's hard for young kids. If

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Speaker 1: you're fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old and you're a K

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Speaker 1: pop artist or you're someone who enjoys k pop, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it takes time to really become a scholar. It

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Speaker 1: takes time to become knowledgeable about these things. So I

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Speaker 1: just have to remember, you know, where I was at

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Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen years old, I didn't know, you know it,

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Speaker 1: barely knew anything that I know now. But I think

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Speaker 1: we just we have to emphasize education, and that's you know,

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Speaker 1: just in terms of musicality, just period. I think our

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Speaker 1: music would be better if people were better educated about music.

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Speaker 1: And I think that musical expressions would be much more

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Speaker 1: respectful and much more meaningful if people were educated about

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Speaker 1: the history of where their music came from. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can't you cannot force the curiosity. You

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Speaker 1: can't force people to care about something. We just we

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Speaker 1: have to keep talking about these things and hopefully causing

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Speaker 1: you know, sparking conversations. And you know, there's just so

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Speaker 1: there's so much I'll just use the word ignorance. There's

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Speaker 1: so much ignorance out there around this stuff. And it's

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Speaker 1: things things that I take for granted that it's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, everyone knows that rock and roll originated in

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Speaker 1: the black community. Everybody knows that rock and rolls started

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Speaker 1: with jump blues, and jump blues came from the blues,

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Speaker 1: and that this was something that was developed in the

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Speaker 1: South by black musicians who you know, who had nothing

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Speaker 1: and they were poor, and you know, everyone knows this,

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Speaker 1: but no, everyone doesn't know this. A full grown people

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Speaker 1: don't know this. You know, it's just not something that's

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Speaker 1: commonly discussed. So yeah, I think we just we have

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Speaker 1: to become, you know, as curious as possible, especially as

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Speaker 1: as artists and musicians. Right and with you tackling these

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Speaker 1: large topics such as history and music and all of that,

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Speaker 1: I know you have your fair share of trolls, so

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Speaker 1: you have to come through. Um, how do you deal

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00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: with that? That's the question I have to ask all

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Speaker 1: of those social media creators, how do you deal with that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah it's it's bad. The yeah it's it's bad. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of negativity in the comments. I can't say

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Speaker 1: that I that I'm an expert on how to deal

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Speaker 1: with it when I first started, because my first huge

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Speaker 1: video about the the anjemima controversy, and that was bad.

429
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: It was like a couple of years ago. Actually this month,

430
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: they we're getting ready to come up on probably the

431
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: second or third, I guess, the third anniversary of that

432
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: video the anjemima should not be whatever on the cover

433
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: of a pancakee box. Um. And that was the worst.

434
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: And when when that first video first blew up, um,

435
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: it was just flooded. It was flooded by just hatred,

436
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: just vitriolic racism. It was it was terrible. And all

437
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: of this over a pancake box that supposedly, according to

438
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: a lot of these people, was just inconsequential. It shouldn't matter,

439
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: what's the big deal. But then you know it's it's

440
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: igniting all of this this fury and so which is

441
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: obviously coming from some place other than being upset about

442
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: the branding changing on their their their pancake mix. Um.

443
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: But at first I think I felt obligated to be

444
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: super gracious and to keep up this sort of dignified appearance.

445
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: I had someone I'm just now starting to post this

446
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: stuff in the last year or so on Facebook, So

447
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: my Facebook is kind of just catching up with a

448
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: lot of my other social media And of course you

449
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: have an older audience over there. And I had someone comment,

450
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, because I had clapped back at someone, and

451
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: he said, well, you should just you should be more professional. Oh,

452
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: you should be ashamed, you should be more professional. I said,

453
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: why should I be more professional? I have no obligation

454
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: to be professional in the comments, you know, with the

455
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: way that some people come come at me. No, I

456
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: do not feel an obligation towards professionalism. I do not

457
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: represent an organization. I don't represent any sort of a

458
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: company or or any corporate interest of any kind. I'm

459
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: a human being who is sharing knowledge, and if people

460
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: choose to be disrespectful, then I can handle that in

461
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: any way that I choose. Now. I don't curse people out.

462
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: I don't call people names generally if they are behaving

463
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: in a particular way. I may say, well, this is this,

464
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: you are exhibiting this, and I will call a thing

465
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: a thing, but I don't know. I don't call people

466
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: out of their name. So I've I've kind of relinquished

467
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: myself of the need to be anything other than what

468
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: I actually am. And I want people to know this

469
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: is this is a different philosophy than a lot of

470
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: people will will uphold, which is, if you feel the

471
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: need to clap back at somebody in that moment, say

472
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: what you have to say, because holding onto that and

473
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: just internalizing that and allowing to just fester and grow

474
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: that is extremely unhealthy. So I've started. You know, people

475
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: will come back and say, well, you need to just

476
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: rise above it and take the high road, and you know,

477
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: don't worry about these tools. You're above them, and you

478
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: really shouldn't know, absolutely not that approach. That approach was

479
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 1: was making me. It was just making me crazy, it

480
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: really was. And it's like, no, you have the right

481
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: to respond if you choose to in that moment, you

482
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: have the right to respond. Now, the other side of

483
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: that is we have to protect our energy and if

484
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: you do not have to have inclination or time to

485
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: engage with people who are sea lioning, or who are

486
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: time wasters, or who are being completely out of pocket

487
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: and disrespectful and who are not interested in any sort

488
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: of real intellectual exchange. You know, I know how to

489
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: block and delete, and I spend some time blocking and deleting.

490
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: But if you know, if someone comes in and says, hey,

491
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: this information is incorrect and you're wrong, and you're just

492
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: you are this, you know this personal attacks and if

493
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: I feel the need to respond, I will do that.

494
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: I have absolutely no problem responding, and I have relinquished

495
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: the need to protect any sort of reputation or image

496
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: that anyone has of me, because if your image of

497
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: me was that I would not respond to you will.

498
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: Then you're gonna get a wake up call today. You're

499
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: going to get some new information to take with you.

500
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: I love it, And you know what, your clips have

501
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: always been gracious, like with the more like education. I

502
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: acknowledged every bit of that because I'm like, okay, you

503
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: look at that, because you literally get back with let

504
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: me help you with this more information, and I'm like,

505
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: all right, she's got this right, So yeah, I think

506
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: it's gracious. I love how you're talking about energy and

507
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: space because we did come up on your article. They're

508
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen Huffington Post article. But here's to the ladies

509
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: who cuss. Are they are they obliged? I loved it.

510
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: I loved it, which aligns with a lot about what

511
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: we talk about about learning to take up space or

512
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: being just being there and being in the space and

513
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: not being apologetic about it. Yes. And also you do

514
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: talk about religion, which we really want to get into,

515
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: because that is something that has haunted myself and I

516
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: think Annie would say yet that too, where we have

517
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: been so traumatized about what being a godly good woman meant,

518
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: which oftentimes meant being little um And in that article

519
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: you write, but as a fully formed adult, I have

520
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: begun to understand that it is not only my option,

521
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: but my obligation to occupy that space, which you know,

522
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm all love. This brings me to this question, how

523
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: did you get to that point? How are you able

524
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: to say this in that moment of like I am

525
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: finally ready or I finally acknowledge this is what I

526
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: need to do. Oh well, it's such as so funny

527
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: that you bring that up. That was twenty sixteen. I

528
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: haven't read that article in years. We found you, right,

529
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: I hope you didn't find anything else, would be like

530
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: in I don't know what the podcast xose right now. Um, yeah,

531
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: it's been such a journey. I have to apologize in

532
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: advance for using the word journey excessively, um, because it

533
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: is just one of those cliches. Then I just giggle

534
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: that when I hear it. But anyway, it's been a

535
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: journey to myself. And I'm sure most people, especially most women,

536
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: can recognize that process. It's a lifelong progression to get

537
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: to yourself something because you know, if you grew up

538
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: in a hyper religious environment in the way that I did,

539
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: and in the way that a lot of people did,

540
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: what you're taught is to place layers on top of yourself,

541
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: and those layers are placed up on you before you

542
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: even begin to gain consciousness of who you are in

543
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: the world. And so once I realized that my job,

544
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: that that was my job, that that is the goal

545
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: to get to the core of who you are, that

546
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: was an eye opening point in life. It was like, oh, okay,

547
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: so if I just sort of weirdly flag my nose

548
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: in the face of what you are telling me that

549
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be or want or do or think

550
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: or say like I will actually find freedom and redemption

551
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: and joy and peace and wait a minute, this is weird.

552
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: And it was just kind of a you know, it's

553
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: kind of just like baby steps, and that probably started

554
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: to happen in my late twenties, and it was a

555
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: very pricy, it was just a very kind of slow,

556
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: tedious thing to sort of begin to very slowly peel

557
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: off those restraints. And I'm involved in the deconstruction community

558
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: on TikTok, and I've watched some people who are who

559
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: are younger than I am, and who are not at

560
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 1: the place that I am in their deconstruction journey, and

561
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: they've done this, They've they've taken they've undertaken this process

562
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: in a matter of just you know, a year, a

563
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: year and a half, two years, three years. You know,

564
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, at the beginning of the pandemic, they

565
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: were ardent evangelicals who were attending church and leading praise

566
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: and worship every Sunday. And then by twenty twenty one,

567
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: a year later, they are speaking out and just doing

568
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: activism in the LGBTQ community or whatever. I'm like, how

569
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: in the world did you make this progression so quickly,

570
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: because for me, it was you know, it was a

571
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: period of just it's it's still underway, but I mean

572
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: this was a process that started in my probably my

573
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: late teens of just like, you know, this is this

574
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: is oppressive, this this cloak that I have been raised under,

575
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: this is an oppressive, weighty thing, and it's just a

576
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: slow process of giving yourself permission to to find the

577
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, the truth and the core of of of

578
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: who you are and the the the genesis of that

579
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: for me, and this is a very personal journey that

580
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: I have been on. Um was was? I mean, I

581
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: mean there the real core of the work started when

582
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: my parents died, and they both died in twenty fourteen,

583
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: and so I noticed after that, you know, as horribly

584
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: tragic and sad and difficult and you know, just life

585
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 1: altering that that was. I started to notice that after

586
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: that happened, I started to experience a different kind of

587
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: freedom within myself to just be all of who I am.

588
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: And you know that article was written in twenty sixteen,

589
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: so the timing of that is not a coincidence. I

590
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: wish I had given myself that permission sooner because I

591
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, I really wish my parents could

592
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: have seen, you know, more of the manifestation of who

593
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: I am in the world. But I needed that. I

594
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: needed the release that happened when they left, and so

595
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: then after they after they passed, it was like, well,

596
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: I know that speaking out and whatever. Even writing that

597
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: article for goingness sake, it was like, you know, I

598
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: think I ended up by saying something about not giving

599
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: a bleed if I won't say that because it will

600
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: be here and I'm not even really someone who cusses,

601
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: which is hilarious to have written an article like that.

602
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: But you know, I if my parents were around and

603
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: I had written an article like that, but have been

604
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: mortified to see that. But you know, once they were gone,

605
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: it was like, well, Auntie's uncle's cousins, friends of my parents.

606
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: Because my parents were ministers, my grandmother was a pastor,

607
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: Holiness Pentecostal pastor. It was like, I can deal with

608
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: those tangential people being disappointed in me. I could not

609
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: deal with my parents being disappointed in me. I could

610
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: not deal with it. And I knew that to a degree.

611
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: You know, half the decisions I was making were not

612
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: ones that they would would have made for me, but

613
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: I just couldn't really, you know, make a leap fully

614
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: until they were gone. So my whole philosophy at this

615
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: point in my life now you know, post you know,

616
00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: having parents, is that it is my job at times

617
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: to disappoint people. That's a process that I go through daily,

618
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: and I tell any woman in particular women this oftentimes

619
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: is our hang up. But I tell younger women as

620
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: often as I can, your job in life at times

621
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: will be to disappoint people. You have to start to

622
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: get comfortable. It's really hard, but you have to start

623
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: to get comfortable with the idea of letting people down

624
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: and disappointing people, because that process will never stop. It

625
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what you're doing. If you're trying to live

626
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: up to expectations, you're going to disappoint people. If you

627
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: are flagging your nose in the face of expectations, you're

628
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: going to disappoint people. So if you can be proactive

629
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: about that and just get ahead of it and say, no,

630
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to wake up today and realize my job

631
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: is to disappoint people. If you're not disappointing somebody today,

632
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: then you're not doing it right. You are not making

633
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: any decisions at all, if you're not disappointing somebody, Okay,

634
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: that feels like an encouragement, as my parents and I

635
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: are not about things. Yeah, it is obvious that you

636
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: are a songwriter. In this post that you did because

637
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: I want to read this again is towards the end um,

638
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: but not the damn part, which you can say damn.

639
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: Apparently that's not one of those extreme words on our

640
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: I didn't know either until I started podcasting. I can

641
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: say that one, but I can't say this, okay, but

642
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: it says in the coming year, I will be more

643
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: loving and I will be kinder. I will also stake

644
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: acclaim in my own life. I am compelled to make

645
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: room for myself. I will not always be pleasing or appropriate,

646
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: but I will blossom again. You're obviously a poet songwriter.

647
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: That one if you're proud of your own writing, because

648
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: that's such a statement in talking about taking a stake

649
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: in yourself, and as you're talking about you know you're

650
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 1: going to disappoint someone. Do you feel in your journey?

651
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 1: I want to say you too, in your journey as

652
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: you have blossomed. What would be the advice for young

653
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: people today slash the marginalized. Because we have a lot

654
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: of twenty something listeners and thirty something listeners. What would

655
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: be something that you would tell them in learning to

656
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: take up space? How how would you advise them to

657
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: go forward with that? Um? Well, as I said, just

658
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: just that, just engaging, actively engaging in the process of

659
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: letting other people down. It sounds, it almost sounds like

660
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 1: negative advice, but it is. It's really it's it's positive advice.

661
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: It sounds it's it's it's it's paradoxical in learning how

662
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: to release the expectation of always being pleasing. That's you know,

663
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: I was a church I was a church girl. I

664
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: was raised to be a church girl. And I know

665
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: this is not just exclusive to the church, but we

666
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: were taught to be obedient. I mean, obedience was a

667
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: lesson that my mother taught daily. We knew all of

668
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: the scriptures around you know, obedience is better than sacrifice,

669
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: and children, obey your parents and the Lord for this

670
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: is right. And those lessons and obedience were just hammered away.

671
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 1: And I understand, you know, my mother had seven children.

672
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: I understand why she felt the need to really, you know,

673
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: turn us into these almost like robotic creatures where we

674
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: were just ready to step in line, you know, at

675
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: a moment's notice. I get it, but you know, to

676
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: take those attitudes into adulthood can open us up to

677
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: some very dangerous situations. I can only and we were

678
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: very well protected, but I can only imagine the dangers

679
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: that could have existed for me if we weren't as

680
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: sheltered as we were. Too so, because to be taught

681
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: to be that obedient and then to be exposed to

682
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: the world. You know, there was a period of time

683
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 1: where I had left my parents home and I still

684
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: had that mentality, and you know, it's just that's a

685
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: that's a it's a really dangerous brew um to just

686
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: step out into the world going, Okay, you know more

687
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: than I do, you know better than I do. Please

688
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: tell me where to stand and where to be, and

689
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: what to say and what to do. It's just, you know,

690
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: it's unconscionable. Really, when I think back on it, I'm

691
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that I didn't suffer more trauma than

692
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: what I did. I can't say that all of my

693
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters were that unfortunate. You know, I don't

694
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: feel that I ever suffered abuse, in true abuse in

695
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: the world. But my I have siblings who did, and

696
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: so we have to we have to be self protective,

697
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: and we have to learn how to begin to draw

698
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: boundaries in our own lives. And you have to set

699
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: up those parameters individually, and you know, no one can

700
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: really tell you what those those aameters should be. You

701
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: have to make those decisions on your own. And so unfortunately,

702
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: sometimes that can leave us in a place of isolation,

703
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: maybe temporary, hopefully temporary, because permanent isolation is it's not healthy.

704
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: But if there are periods of time in our lives

705
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: where we have to remove ourselves from people who do

706
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: not understand those boundaries, then you got to do it

707
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: for the period of time. You know that that's necessary.

708
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: I mean I had to move away. I had to

709
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: move away from my hometown and just really begin to

710
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 1: quiet the voices, quiet all of those external voices, because

711
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: in the world, you know, in the church world, my god,

712
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: there's just NonStop people yapping in your ear and wanting

713
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: to tell you how things should be, like if they

714
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: could crawl in your brain there right in my world.

715
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: But there was that intense We didn't just go to

716
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: church It wasn't just some polite experience of like We're

717
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: going to put on our nice clothes and just sit

718
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: here and sing a few songs and open the Bible

719
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: and have encouragement and go home. It was like, no,

720
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: this is like morning, noon and night. This is this

721
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: is the core of who you are. And so I

722
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 1: had to get out. I had to remove myself and

723
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: I felt guilty, you know, at the beginning of that process,

724
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: I felt guilty for leaving me. Leaving home was a

725
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: traumatic experience. I had knocked down, drag out with my

726
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: father that I never thought I would have in my life,

727
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: just just from leaving. But I did it for survival.

728
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: I knew that I had to. I had to do that.

729
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: So you know, you're worth fighting for. I would say,

730
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: if you're you're if I'm speaking to to you know,

731
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: uh gen z, young women, millennials, whatever, you're worth fighting for.

732
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 1: You have to you have to believe that. And it's

733
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: not always going to be pretty. It will not always

734
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: be just the most beautiful zen experience of self discovery,

735
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, wandering through Sometimes sometimes it's like you got

736
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: to get out that sword and you got to start

737
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: cutting cutting out the you know, the weeds and the

738
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: thing you just it's sometimes it's just ugly, but you're

739
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 1: you're worth the process and you have to believe that. Yeah.

740
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: I love that, um Yeah, And it kind of goes

741
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: hand in hand with what you've been talking about, especially

742
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: with religious trauma. We're actually working on in episode so

743
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to bring you back maybe for that

744
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: conversation itself, because the way that religious trauma has affected

745
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: women over the past forever, um and now it's kind

746
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: of coming back with the whole Christian nationalist idea. We're

747
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: not going all into that, but there's a lot to

748
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: be said. What when it comes to religious trauma, and

749
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 1: it was what it does to marginalize people, specifically specifically women,

750
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: UM and those who have heard throughout being told you

751
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: must obey, you must become a servant to ABC and D.

752
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: But you're also a big part of the community because

753
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: you've talked about deconstruction quite a bit now. And I

754
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: love this. I love seeing this on social media because,

755
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: like you, I had a huge journey in ripping myself

756
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: away because I really thought I was going to be

757
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: a missionary. I was thinking that my life was to

758
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: serve this way because I had to be grateful for

759
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: being quote unquote say you know, that's such a thing

760
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: that plagues you. And even today, like I still can't

761
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: quite let that trauma go, that feeling of I'm not

762
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: grateful enough. By seeing these people coming together, yourself as

763
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: well so many others come into this community and talking

764
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: about what that looks like and learning to let that

765
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: go is such a powerful tool. But can you kind

766
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: of talk about that for us and what that looks

767
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: like and what that community is and how we can

768
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: be a part of it. Yeah, the deconstruction community on TikTok.

769
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: And this is like something I didn't when I started

770
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: my so called deconstruction journey. Somebody needs to put a

771
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: counter up the number game somehow. The drinking game was

772
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: a journey drinking game. You know. When I started my

773
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 1: deconstruction process in my twenties, I that the word didn't

774
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: even exist, not in relation to religion. Nobody was talking

775
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: about deconstruction it which is I was just rebellious, you know,

776
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: or as my grandmother who's who was a Pentecostal Minis,

777
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: she would say, rebellious you know, if you if you

778
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: beared off the path. This is rebel. Just we're backsliding

779
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: to come home, you know, and so you were in

780
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: you were in danger. That's that's what it was. It

781
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: was like there was no organization around it at all.

782
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 1: We knew people who had backslidden, and it was like,

783
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, there. I remember when we were very young

784
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: and we always attended Christian schools. Parents always had us

785
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: in either Christian school or homeschool. But there was a

786
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: man who ran like a private Christian school was kind

787
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: of a real small school in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where I

788
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: was partly raised, and he we were thinking of switching

789
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: to Our parents were thinking of switching schools and not

790
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, having us in the same school that we

791
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: had mostly grown up in. And we were like, well,

792
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: can we go to this this other school? I think

793
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: it was all Bread of Life or something like that.

794
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: And and I remember my father saying, well, baby called

795
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: us babies, he called us all his babies, Well, babies,

796
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: the pastor of Bread of Life, he's backslidd he's backslid.

797
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: And it was there was just this like oh, this

798
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: darkness that just came over the entire guard. It was like, oh,

799
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 1: oh my god, you know, I mean, he might as

800
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: well have just fallen off into the abyss. It was

801
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: just that was when I first became aware of that.

802
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,280
Speaker 1: I mean I knew the word, but to know someone

803
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: who was so you know, who we thought of as

804
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 1: such a pillar of like, man, this is a pastor

805
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: who runs a Christian school, and you're telling me that

806
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: he can just not be saved anymore. And so there

807
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: was there was just no worse thing that could happen

808
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: to you. So now to be a part of a

809
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: community of people who are, as you said, just having

810
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 1: conversations around the trauma that can be passed down through

811
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: this kind of dogmatic you know, religious these these experiences

812
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: is just I mean it's just so eye opening. It's

813
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: just kind of breaks you open and it's like wow,

814
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: this there's so many common experiences that we have, and

815
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: it really helps you to put the puzzle pieces together.

816
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: It's like, this isn't just me. I'm not just rebellious.

817
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: Here's just kind of you know, veering off the had

818
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: and potentially you know, getting gobbled up by you know,

819
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: dragons or something like. This is this is a thing.

820
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: It's just it's so amazing and so I think, you know,

821
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 1: the TikTok algorithm, It knows you. It starts to figure

822
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: out who you are and what you're about very soon.

823
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: So that was not content that I ever sought out.

824
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: I never I wasn't really looking for content around that,

825
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: but obviously it started to feed things to me and

826
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: it realized, you know, um, what I was about. And

827
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: I think I did a video on these what are

828
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: called tracks t r acts, these witnessing tracks that used

829
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: to be used in our evangelical circles, and they were

830
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: called chick tracks, and I just did a video on

831
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: them and kind of talked about the history of them

832
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: and the person who put them out, and there's really

833
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: some kind of sinister stuff behind these things. And I

834
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: think because of that, you know, they realized that. Well,

835
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: I ended up attracting I think a lot of the

836
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: evangelical people and they just kind of latched onto my content.

837
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: And I think the other thing I think is because

838
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: I do a lot of work around kind of anti racism,

839
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: because a lot of these people who are deconstructing and

840
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: who have been in evangelical spaces are also doing work

841
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: around kind of decolonizing their faith and realizing how much

842
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: of this, as you said, this white nationalism kind of

843
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: gets mixed in with evangelical Christianity. I think a lot

844
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: of them just naturally found my content. So it's been

845
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: really cool to connect with that community. I participated. I

846
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 1: actually helped to organize an online conference called Dcon last

847
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: year or this ye earlier this year, I think, and

848
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: I was one of the speakers. The topic that I

849
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: spoke about was called letting Go of Hell, and so

850
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: it was all about just how this fear of Hell

851
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: is just drilled into us at a very early age

852
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: and just you know, in times and rapture stuff, and

853
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: just how that you know kind of thing is used

854
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: to really and still just just a lot of fear

855
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: just you know, not not as they say, the fear

856
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 1: of God, but just like literal fear into you from

857
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: an early age. And so you know, it's been it's

858
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: been a really liberating thing. I'm sort of sort of

859
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: out of the closet, I guess as a deconstructing Christian

860
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, there's so much to that conversation

861
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: when you look at the content, and especially again like

862
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: when we talk about women, because rigging down, how a

863
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: lot of the Western religion really hate women, like they

864
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 1: really do everything they can to demoralize women and making

865
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: sure that they are subservient, and of course there's a

866
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: giant agenda to that, but to let go of that

867
00:50:54,760 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: and realizing that that is misinformation for so many things,

868
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: like there's religion in itself, of faith in itself is

869
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: not the problem and necessarily, but what has been made

870
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: out of it and so many things that we see

871
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: that is seeping into our politics today is just un nerving.

872
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: It is again right now, especially, I know we've been

873
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: through this before, but it feels like, how are we

874
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: back here again? Yeah, you know, and seeing other people

875
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: talking about this is not right. It's always so encouraging

876
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: to see and having someone to uplift that, Hey, this

877
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: is the other side. Let's let's let's look at that too. Yeah, absolutely,

878
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: it is. It is. It's very encouraging. I mean, you know,

879
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: as it pertains to so many things, you know, just

880
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: having a community of people who help you to know

881
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: that you're not you know, you're not off the wall,

882
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: you're not crazy. It's like, yes, I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

883
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: I'm not the only one who's experiencing this. It's yeah,

884
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: it's so comforting. And yeah, to also have again, because

885
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: one of the biggest things for me when I walked

886
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: away from that was losing the community. I felt like

887
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: a lot of such a giant part of myself, and

888
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: that means a big, giant group of people that I

889
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: considered friends and family. So when you walk away from that,

890
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: you feel so alone, so knowing I love that you

891
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,760
Speaker 1: and then the others have come together to make a community,

892
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: which makes you feel like, oh, we're together, I'm not alone.

893
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: It's not this this where I felt like I got

894
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: such a huge divorce and I've lost the I lost,

895
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: you know, the main part of everything. It it felt

896
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: like it's such an amazing moment to see that that

897
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: you're being heard and you're being seen. Yes, it is.

898
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 1: It's that's a that's a huge part of I think

899
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: why a lot of people never really cut that cut

900
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: those ties, because it really is, especially for black folks,

901
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: you know that that community thing with with church. Church

902
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: has played such a pivotal role historically in the black community,

903
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 1: just in terms of it's just been a meeting point,

904
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, a community center kind of environment and town

905
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: square and it's it's just it's it has substituted for

906
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: so so much with us, and you know can still

907
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: can still play that role. But I think that there

908
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: are a lot of people now who are who are

909
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: who are actively addressing some of the more toxic parts

910
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: of that environment. Yes, and we would say one of

911
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: them as you throughout, I feel like you've answered this throughout,

912
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,879
Speaker 1: but you definitely don't shy away in your content from

913
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 1: hard questions around race, or politics or religion. Why do

914
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 1: you think that it's so important that we do address

915
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: those things and we do talk about those things. Um well,

916
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: I guess, as we've been saying, just the the idea

917
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 1: of of of having a sense of community around around

918
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: these things. I mean, you know, it's to to hear

919
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 1: someone reinforce something that you already knew in the back

920
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: of your mind, or to hear someone say it in

921
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: a way that makes it that allows it to kind

922
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: of lock in. And I hear that a lot from people.

923
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: It's like sometimes people will write me, they will inbox

924
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: me and say, you know, I can't remember what you

925
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: were quite saying about this, and I'm having a conversation

926
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: with my dad about this, or I was trying to

927
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: tell my friends about this thing that you were saying,

928
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: and you know, can you help me to to just

929
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: address this this finer point of whatever. And it's like, yeah,

930
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: here's the information, or they'll say your video just it

931
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: said it in a way that I couldn't say it,

932
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: like I knew that I felt this way. But thank

933
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: you for just hitting this nail head on and I'm

934
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: going to send this to my my family or conservative

935
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: or whatever. And it's it's, you know, they're oftentimes little

936
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 1: bite size, you know, one minute to I've started doing

937
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: some longer form content, you know, maybe seven minutes. Some

938
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: of the longer videos are but like you know, allowing

939
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: people to sort of get to home in on exactly

940
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: what they intend to say or what they they already

941
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: know that they feel about something, but just giving them

942
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 1: an organized way to present that information. I think it's

943
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: it's really important. I don't really target a lot of

944
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: my content to die hards that are just dug in

945
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: on the opposite side of things. My content is more

946
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: geared towards people who are maybe they're just curious about

947
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: these topics, or they're on the fence, or you know,

948
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 1: they've been debating with people and they're maybe just mulling

949
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 1: things around, and it's it just kind of helps you

950
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: lock into the core and the crux of those topics

951
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: a little bit more securely. I don't really have any

952
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 1: interest in debating people who just want to come in

953
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: with guns blazing. I just there's no as I've I've

954
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: moved forward with this process or you know, I just

955
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: I know that there's no thermal point. There are some

956
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: people who just they just like to argue, right, and

957
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: that I'm not interested in. So I think, yeah, it's

958
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: important to have the conversations to kind of help to

959
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: help the folks who are interested in doing better, who

960
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: are interested in learning, who don't necessarily have time to

961
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: go and read an entire book on anti racism. Maybe

962
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: it will encourage them to read a book on anti racism,

963
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 1: but they haven't really taken that step. They haven't really

964
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: been proactive about it. But like, hey, it comes up

965
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: in your feed and maybe you're kind of curious about it,

966
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: and it helps to crystallize some things, you know. Yeah,

967
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: that is so valuable. I mean, that's been one of

968
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: my experiences with podcasting as well. Sometimes you just need

969
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: somebody to give voice and words to what it is

970
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: you're trying to deal with or or figure out. So yeah, right, Well,

971
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 1: we couldn't end this interview without talking about your musical career. Yes,

972
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: you've won so many awards, from Nashville Industry Awards to Grammy's.

973
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: Can you talk about your experience in the music industry. Yeah,

974
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: well I don't. I don't have a Grammy. I wrote

975
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: for a Grammy winning album. I wrote the title track

976
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: for KEB Mo's He's a Blue Singer. He won the

977
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: Americana Album of the Year for an album called Oklahoma,

978
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: which is where I'm from, which is why he reached

979
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: out to me and asked me to co write the

980
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: title track with him, So that that was a really

981
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: cool experience, one of the only co writes that I

982
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: did when I lived in Nashville, and I just moved

983
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: away a couple of years ago, first to the New

984
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: York area, nam and Philly, and so yeah, the crux

985
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: of my music career was spent in Nashville. And you know,

986
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: being a so called quote unquote jazz singer in Nashville

987
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: is an interesting thing. So it helped me too. I

988
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: think it helped me to distinguish myself because are not

989
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: a ton of jazz singers there. There are plenty but

990
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: by the time we left, I really felt like we

991
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: had done everything that could be done in jazz in Nashville.

992
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: You know, we had won the awards or what was it,

993
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: Nashville The Nashville scene had named me the best thing

994
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: jazzing or Nashville. My husband was the best jazz player

995
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: in Nashville. I'm like, okay, you win those awards. You

996
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: got to get the heck out of Dodge. You don't

997
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: just keep sitting around waiting for somebody to pat you

998
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: on the head again, like, get out and you know,

999
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: make your your career worth something. So there's a lot

1000
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: to be said for being in what I call being

1001
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: up under the spout, you know, physically. The proximity principle

1002
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: is it's very real, you know, placing yourself in an

1003
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: environment where people are are doing the kind of thing

1004
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: that you're doing, and you can be interacting with people

1005
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: who actually have some you know, the ability to make

1006
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: decisions on your behalf and things like that. So that's

1007
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: the portion of my career that I'm in right now.

1008
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: It's just like I've put out I'm getting ready to

1009
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: put out my fifth studio album in June, and it's

1010
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: self titled Darstar Tucker. So we'll be putting up the

1011
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: pre order link for that really soon. So I'm really

1012
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: excited about that process. And we're working with kind of

1013
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: a midsize or smaller label now called Greenhill Records, and

1014
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: they're really going to help help us to kind of

1015
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: get our music into more playlists and you know, we're

1016
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: working on getting more placements, you know, with publicity and

1017
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: just getting things up to the next level. Is I

1018
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: experienced a lot of frustration, I think, just kind of

1019
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: trying to do what I did in Nashville, and I

1020
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: still have a lot of you know, residual like, oh God,

1021
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, I should have moved to New York ten

1022
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: years ago. Why did I not start this process ten

1023
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: years ago? But it just logistically just did not happen.

1024
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: It could not happen, could have happened until it happened,

1025
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: And so I'm just having to accept at this point

1026
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: it's like, this is how, this is how it was

1027
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: supposed to be. It's happening in the way that it

1028
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: needs to happen. And it's really cool now to have

1029
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: a social media following that I do, even though the

1030
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: majority of them don't necessarily follow me. For music. But

1031
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: now they're there, and so we're going to talk about

1032
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: music from time to time. They're gonna hear about my music.

1033
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like the algorithm will show it

1034
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: to them. That's a whole other other issue. But you know,

1035
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: a video for me a few years ago, if if

1036
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: I had on Instagram a couple hundred views, that was like,

1037
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: that was pretty cool, you know, put up a music video.

1038
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: And so now you know, I'll get a couple of thousands,

1039
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,439
Speaker 1: you know, several you know, maybe ten thousand views or something,

1040
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: which is not amazing on TikTok or Instagram, but it's

1041
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: exponentially better than it was just a few years ago.

1042
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: So it's really cool. And then so now the process

1043
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 1: is how do I merge these personas, How do I

1044
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,919
Speaker 1: merge these identities? How do I make all of this

1045
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: live together hopefully seamlessly, and to get a lot of

1046
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: my followers to the point where you know, like you

1047
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: were saying, Samantha, where you're like, Okay, you do this,

1048
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: and you do this, and you do this, and you know,

1049
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: I loved this version of this song that you did,

1050
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: and then you know your your activism thing also, that's

1051
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: that's the goal. Now is just like make sure and

1052
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: get the music out to people, because I think there

1053
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: is there's a continuum between these these things. I think

1054
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: that the essence and the core of who I am

1055
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: with these videos, with these video essays, it translates to

1056
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: the music once you start, once you hear I hope

1057
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: that I mean. And that's probably more for you guys

1058
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: to say versus me, But once you hear me singing,

1059
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: I hope it makes sense that like, oh, okay, this

1060
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: goes with this. These are like partner things and it

1061
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: feels like it's coming from the same space. I hope,

1062
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: Oh it does, Like I absolutely made perfect sense when

1063
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: your music. Oh but also your voice in itself, just

1064
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: you speaking is very melodious. So I'm like, yeah, of

1065
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: course you can sing obviously, so like it translated to

1066
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: me in that way. Um, And you know, because we

1067
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: have to have your expertise outside of your own albums obviously,

1068
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 1: for those who are getting into the jazz and blues genre,

1069
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: can you give us like a starter pack for what

1070
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: we should be listening as we go through this. I

1071
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: love giving music recommendation in the in the sort of

1072
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: jazz ish world. My favorites would be Number one. I

1073
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: would say Gregor Reporter. If you don't know who Gregor

1074
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: Reporter is, He's just magnificent and wonderful and there is

1075
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: there's none greater in terms of his writing and his singing,

1076
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: his his his original music is really my favorite. I

1077
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: would say someone named jazz. Yea Horne is one of

1078
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: the just the finest jazz artist that's out there right now.

1079
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: Samara Joy just won the award for Best New Artists

1080
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: the Best Jazz Album is She's one of the more

1081
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: brilliant singers out there. And there's a singer called Cecile

1082
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: McLaurin Salvant who is so quirky and just original and

1083
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: so interesting and she's just incredible. I just love her.

1084
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: And then my fifth recommendation would be a singer named

1085
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: Liz Right and she's been out there since the early

1086
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: two thousands just being absolutely incredible. So those five singers

1087
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: would be my top recommendations for jazz if you're interested

1088
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: in that. And I don't go you know, my music

1089
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 1: doesn't go deep. It's not like a bunch of really

1090
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: complicated jazz solos all over the place. And you know,

1091
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: some people really really love that. The music that I

1092
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: do as much more Pedestrian is really just kind of

1093
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: singer songwriter stuff that's set to a jazz bed, So

1094
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: it's very vibe and earthy, and you're going to hear

1095
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: real instruments and you are going to hear solos. But

1096
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: it is all very melodic, and I think it's fairly

1097
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: easy to understand. I don't think the stuff is heavy

1098
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,439
Speaker 1: and hard to get into, and none of the music

1099
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: that I recommended is either, So it's it's for us.

1100
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: I call myself a small brain when it comes to music.

1101
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not a really you know, smart, complicated

1102
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 1: jazz musician at all. I don't. I didn't study at

1103
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: a conservatory, and I don't I'm not very good in

1104
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: music theory. So it's it's music of the people. You're

1105
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: great music history, though, I will say that. But you know,

1106
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: also the sounds like because I'm I don't know if

1107
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: you know much about it, I'll have to talk about

1108
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: a little bit. I'm starting to get into what it's

1109
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: called cozy gaming, in which you try to play cutesy

1110
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: games while you're all cuddled up that music. So I

1111
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: was like, it might be right there where I So

1112
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: I'm all like comfortable and getting into mind and good

1113
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: vibes and good says. So I'm going to remember this

1114
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: list because I think I'm going to need this as

1115
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: please do. I hope, I really hope you enjoyed them.

1116
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: These are some of the more just the most talented

1117
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: people on earth, and I just think they deserve just

1118
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: all of the whatever, all of the publicity they can

1119
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: possibly get, and that's what we need. We want to

1120
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: hear more of that. And of course, yes, you have

1121
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: talked about your album, so let's get that plug. When

1122
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: is it going to be out? Where do we find it?

1123
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 1: All those things? Well, it's going to be There's actually

1124
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 1: a link in my bio and social media now where

1125
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: you could theoretically be saved the album. I have not

1126
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: even talked about it. I haven't put it out there,

1127
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 1: but it is in my bio and so it's called

1128
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 1: Dara Star Tucker. It's its name, it's it's self titled,

1129
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 1: and it'll be out. I think the release date is

1130
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: June third, but we're going to start releasing singles starting

1131
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: April seventh, and so you'll see me talking about it online.

1132
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: And if you do, just say something, interact with it,

1133
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: share it something so that the algorithm picks it up,

1134
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: because it can be a challenge to try to get

1135
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: those music posts to get the same kind of you know,

1136
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 1: reach as the informational stuff that I do. So that's

1137
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: my challenge now. She just like, how do I find

1138
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: creative ways to share this stuff? And so we'll see

1139
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: going forward whether I can create some visuals that really

1140
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: help people to lock into that. But there's a there's

1141
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 1: a singer that I really love named Emily King. I

1142
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys know who she is. I

1143
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: love Emily King. If you don't know who Emily King is,

1144
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: she's not jazz, she's more like the pop R and B,

1145
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: like alt R and B. One of my favorite performers

1146
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 1: out there. But she's so good with these visuals and

1147
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: helping to to get these little grooves and these beats

1148
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: in people's minds, and just creating really interesting ways, you know,

1149
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 1: in the social media space to share her music. So

1150
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: she's a real inspiration for that. So we're going to

1151
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 1: see if we can be really creative about about the

1152
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: messaging around this album. If you if you actually see

1153
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: it in your fee, then you'll know we've been somewhat

1154
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 1: successful with it. Well, that's amazing, congratulations, thank you. Yes,

1155
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: I can't wait to check it out. And we have

1156
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 1: a tour a tour coming also, so I'll be posting

1157
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 1: those dates too, like and album release shows. I'm so

1158
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 1: sorry to jump in and interrupt, but yeah, that all

1159
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: starts in June. We'll be doing an album really showing

1160
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: my hometown in Tulsa. We'll be doing one in Nashville,

1161
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 1: where I spent fifteen years of my career. We'll be

1162
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: doing one here in New York at Jazz at Lincoln Center,

1163
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: so just yeah, and here here in Philadelphia at South

1164
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: So all of that stuff I'll be sharing on the

1165
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: social Yes, oh you come through Atlanta because we'll be there.

1166
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 1: Have you come through Atlanta? We're gonna try we book ourselves.

1167
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: So we're still looking for a booking agent to kind

1168
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: of help us to set up some real you know,

1169
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 1: true blue tours, but um, you know we would we

1170
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: would love to come through Atlanta. Yes, that'd be so cool.

1171
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 1: In La. I think we're coming to La too. Nice. Well,

1172
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: where can the listeners, the good listeners find you on

1173
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: these social media to learn about all this stuff? I

1174
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: am at Dara Star Tucker Indris tells me to say

1175
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 1: Dara with one r s A star with two. So

1176
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 1: Dara Star Tucker da r A stare our Tucker on

1177
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: most socials, on Instagram, I'm Dara Tucker B. But everywhere else, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, everywhere,

1178
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: I'm Dara Star Tucker. Yes, so definitely go check that out. Listeners,

1179
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you so much for joining us.

1180
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: It's been to like, thank you all for having me.

1181
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: I love having conversations like this with smart people, so

1182
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Yes, thank you so much

1183
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: for joining us. This has been amazing. Thank you. Yes,

1184
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 1: anytime come back. I would love it. Yeah, just just

1185
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: let me know if you'd like me to participate in

1186
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 1: any other conversations about I'm always up for it. If

1187
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 1: I have the time to do it, I would be

1188
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 1: up for it. Absolutely awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, listeners, definitely

1189
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 1: go check out Dara Star Tucker if you have not already.

1190
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: If you would like to contact us, you can our

1191
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: email stephaniea Mom stuff I hurtmia dot com. You can

1192
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter, I'm as podcast, or on Instagram

1193
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: and TikTok at stuff. I never told you and on YouTube. Also,

1194
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:06,679
Speaker 1: thanks as always to our super producer Christina, our executive

1195
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you very much, Yes,

1196
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 1: thank you, and thanks you for listening stuff I Never

1197
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: told me. His production of I Heart Radio full podcast

1198
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio. You can check out the I

1199
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: Heart Radio ap Apple podast wherever you listen to your

1200
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 1: favorite shows