WEBVTT - The Fire Pit w/ Matt Ginella: Building Bandon - Against All Odds [PART 1] 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.040 Mike was relatively quiet. 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:10.000 He was basically listening to what everyone was saying, and 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:12.840 everyone seemed to be happy to be there, even before 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:14.920 they had even before they'd hit a shot, they were 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:15.840 delighted to be there. 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:16.600 Maybe it was. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:21.079 The just the atmosphere of an opening day and a 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:21.639 golf course. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:22.599 But when they came. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.840 Back in, Mike Goodness, the comments and the clubhouse, and 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.440 the atmosphere in the clubhouse was just out of this world. 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.440 You could almost even today, I could you can feel 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:32.920 it here in the back of your next standing up 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.519 because you knew that something had happened to you in 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.480 a place which was out in the middle of nowhere. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.199 It was an incredible day. 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:49.760 Put another log on fire. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:57.040 Nobody here is getting tired. Welcome to the fire pit 0:00:57.240 --> 0:00:59.840 with Matt Chanella. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.800 Welcome back. Settle in this story is one that means 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.040 a little more to me than most. After all. On 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:11.920 May twelfth, twenty seventeen, we named our son Bandon, which, 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.640 according to some research by my wife, means cooperative, courteous, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:21.200 and she says people named Bandon tend to be considerate. Apparently, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.160 peace and harmony are of the utmost importance to someone 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.000 named Bandon. If you've been to the resort or have 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.000 met my son, you'd say most of the above is true. 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.640 As far as our sun goes. It's a work in 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.560 progress in terms of the destination. I've been covering the 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.200 development of Abandon Dunes since two thousand and one, and 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.720 I've been going there every year for my annual Buddies trip, 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.200 the Uncle Tony Invitational, since two thousand and seven. The 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.120 fire pit at Bandon Dunes in the middle of the 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.200 Grove cottages, the nights I've had there, the stories I've 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:56.400 told and heard there, that was the inspiration for this podcast. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.880 Today you'll hear part one of the building of Bandon 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.080 Dunes as told by Mike Kaiser, the owner, David McLeay 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.600 Kidd and his father Jimmy, the architects, and Josh Lesnik 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.079 and his father Steve, who won the bid to manage it. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.800 I interviewed Mike Kaiser on his own David and Josh together, 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.560 and Steve Lesnik and Jimmy Kidd together. Bandon Dunes, the 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.120 original course at what is now the best pure golf 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.840 destination in America and arguably the world, was an outlier 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:31.440 that opened in nineteen ninety nine. Like sand Hills and Mulla, Nebraska. 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.639 The story we told in the previous episode of this podcast, 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.760 to build a golf course in a remote location using 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.840 a minimalist architect or architects was anything but what was 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:46.040 being built in America. In the nineties, Mike Kaiser of 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.000 Recycled Paper Greetings in Chicago started developing courses with the 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.360 Dunes Club, a private but non pretentious nine hole course 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.120 built in the sand of New Buffalo, Michigan. Kaiser was 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.040 then brought in to invest a little money into what 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.080 Young's Cap was building in Nebraska. 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.720 My model has always been even though Dornick and St. 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.720 Andrews old are important, Pine Valley has always been my 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.520 model because it's in the US. It's not remote, but 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.840 it's sort of a hole in the wall place and 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.359 it's totally natural, built on sand dunes. It doesn't have 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:21.840 an ocean, but magnificent sand dunes. So that was my 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.440 motivator and model for the Dunes Club. And when I 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:29.119 saw sand Hills that was in the same genre as 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.720 Pine Valley, and before we knew. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:32.640 It, Dick was full. 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:35.840 That gave me a lot of courage out there in 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.400 Mandon because that was the missing ingredient the courage to 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.000 build something in Bandon. 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.920 Or Kaiser says that when sand Hills got one hundred 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.760 and fifty members in Mullen, that's the mitosis of modern 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:52.200 minimalism in America. As Bill Corr said, a watershed moment. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:57.400 But what if it didn't work? Why was this worth 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.560 the risk? For Mike Kaiser, you. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.040 Know, Josh and I discussed you know what happens if 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.480 no one comes, or what happens if we break even? 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.760 Because we all had bats the first year how many 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.120 rounds we would do, and twelve thousand rounds is break even. 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.760 And most of our bats about how many rounds we 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:17.320 would do were less than twelve thousand rounds. So in 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.479 my group, no one thought we would break even. And 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.520 their discussion, I remembered brabi than the Ninetyfore, Well, if 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.080 it doesn't work, I'll give it three years for it 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.000 to catch on, and if it doesn't, we'll turn. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.280 It into a sheep ranch, which is a bit ironic 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.359 considering this podcast is going live on the eve of 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.400 the opening of the Sheep Ranch, the sixth course at 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:43.040 Bandon Dune's another Billcore and Ben Crenshaw designed. Their story 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.919 is told in episode six of The fire Pit. But 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.080 we start this story in January of nineteen ninety one, 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.679 Mike Kaiser's first trip to Bandon, Oregon, five hundred miles 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.920 north of San Francisco, almost three hundred miles south of Portland. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.040 Kaiser is standing on what's now the fourteenth tea of 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.839 bandoned trails, looking out over Gorse choked dunesland out to 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:05.840 the Pacific Ocean. 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.040 I went to the lookout site which you've seen with 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.200 Shorty and Charlotte Dowe, the caretakers of thirty five years 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.680 of the property who knew the property better than anyone, 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:17.400 and he said, if you're looking for a golf course, 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.159 Shorty said, I'll take you to the spot, and the 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.479 spot is marked today is the spot that Shorty down 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.839 took Mike Kayser and I looked out and said, this 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.039 is it. There can't be another site. It was just 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.560 I later toured the land, which was twelve hundred acres, 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.320 but just from that lookout site it had everything. It 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.960 had beautiful sand dunes that had the ocean. You just 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.640 knew it was as good as Dornick, or in the 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.520 same brat as Dornick and Belly Bunion without knowing the 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:52.360 specific so that one tour with Shorty and Charlotte was. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:55.719 All I needed to see. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:57.480 So then all I had to do was buy it 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:02.880 from Duke Watson and Seattle Washington, and yet David Kidd 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:04.919 and his father on board to do a routing. 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.200 Before we get to the kids, I circled back on 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:09.080 the cost. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.440 They were asking five. 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:12.640 It had been in the market for four and a 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:16.240 half years, according to Shorty Dow and a broker, so 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.039 I felt that there were there weren't any buyers, that 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.400 I was probably the only buyer, and therefore Anne decided 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.800 that you would be much more effective if I was 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:27.760 seeking a fifty percent discount. 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.159 I went there in person. 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.279 So I flew out to see Duke Watson, the owner, 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.360 along with his two brothers in law, and said, Duke, 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.080 I don't have enough money to do this project, so 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.440 I can only pay you half of what you're asking. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.760 If you're asking five, I'll give you two and a half. 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.640 And he said, let us let us go caucus. So 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:48.839 they went into these three there were in their eighties 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.320 or the old guys, go into another room and came 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.440 back fifteen minutes and I said, well take it. 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:56.400 They became big fans. 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.240 That Duke in particular came down at numerous times and said, 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.880 you know, it was always dream to build a resort, 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:03.280 and you've gone and done it. 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.680 Now that he has the land and we know Kaiser's inspirations, 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.520 he was looking for some authenticity in terms of the 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.600 course itself, which is about the time Kaiser had a 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.240 conversation with Rick Summers, who worked for Glen Eagle's Golf 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.840 Developments in Scotland and worked with David McLay Kidd, who 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:22.280 was in his mid twenties. 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.880 And in that conversation, Rick said, why don't you hire 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.239 a Scottish architect if you're trying to build a Scottish 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.640 links course, And Mike said, I would, but there aren't any. 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.280 The old died one hundred years ago. 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.200 And then Ian Ferrier, also of Glen Eagle's Golf Developments, 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.160 made a trip to the States to try and drum 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:41.720 up some business. 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:43.600 And Ian came to see me and said, if you're 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:45.840 looking for someone to do a links golf course, which 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.800 is how I defined it, there's only one group for you, 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.520 and that's the Kid family. David Kidd and his father 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.760 Jimmy know what they're doing. Come on over to Glen 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:55.880 Eagle's and we'll show. 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.240 You entered Jimmy Kidd, David's father and the director of 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.040 agronomy at Glen and Eagles in Scotland. 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.360 We will bring Mike to Scotland. We will base them 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.240 at Glen Eagles Hotel. We will visit Irish Links, we 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.920 will visit Scottish Links. We will convince Mike that we 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.680 know everything about Link's golf, how it should play, how 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.800 it should look, what kind of vegetation and such light. 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.720 And we got to we got down to North Berwick. 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.120 It was the very last one that we played, and 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.400 we played the second hole. Mike pushed one onto the 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.440 beach and he said, well that's set, I'll drop another ball. 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.440 I said, no, you want, Mike go down there and 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:29.720 play it. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.040 Yeahlish As you can't play it, I said, get down 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:33.320 on the beach and play it back. 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:34.959 He knoked it back to nine feet and hold the 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.400 pup for a three. And at that point I knew 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:39.240 had the project. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.280 I was totally captivated by Jimmy Kidd, who's my age 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.600 in particular, who convinced me that he knew everything you 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.960 could passively know about golf and Scarland and especially link Scott. 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.400 Jimmy Kidd was a bit of a legend. His son 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.760 David was still leaning on. 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.520 His d You know, my father was in a group 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:08.280 along with Walter Woodsits and Andrews, George Brown at Turnbree 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.440 and I'm merry out of others that he came up 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.080 through the ranks with. And my childhood was staying at 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:19.760 these golf courses, with these superintendents and golf crews. I 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.320 completely immersed in Scottish golf. 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.480 Meanwhile, back in Chicago, Josh Lesnik was trending to work 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:27.920 in his father's business. 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.880 You know, I grew up in the golf business as well. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.920 I mean he grew up with superintendents, and I grew 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:39.080 up more on the service side, working at Kemper Lakes, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.200 which was, you know, one of the first upscale daily 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:46.200 fee golf courses opened in the in around nineteen seventy nine, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.400 nineteen eighty, I think all eighteen holes open and I 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.840 worked there in summers of high school and college. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:52.880 Because services is. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.600 A way that my dad, the founder of Kemper Sports, 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.559 always felt that we could differentiate ourselves. 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.320 Stars haven't aligned yet, but we're getting there. The kids 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.680 receiving an invite to Kaiser's land in Abandon. That's a 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:07.240 big step. 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.600 And my father and I flew out in July of 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.520 nineteen ninety four to Bandon Dun's and we spent a 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.280 week on the site with Shorty Dow who just passed 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.200 a year ago or so, who was the caretaker of 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.720 the sixteen hundred acres if I remember right, that Mike 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.720 had purchased, and my father and I spent a week 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.440 going around the land. My dad and I were super 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.760 excited at what the possibilities were. We thought the piece 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.640 of land that Mike had had huge potential, and we 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:44.000 thought maybe somehow we were sneaking under the wire into 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:50.440 America for a developer that some way, somehow was going 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.880 to hire these complete unknowns to build a golf course. 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:59.800 But what happened was during that week, Shorty kept asking 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.000 my dad and I for our business cards. I mean 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.880 he kept asking and asking and asking, and so it 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:10.160 became obvious that he was collecting business cards. So I said, sure, 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.319 I'll give you a business card, but I want to 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:16.079 see your collection. And when I saw the collection he had, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:20.400 my heart sank because the collection had all of my 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:24.000 heroes in it. I mean, Mike had had everybody out there, 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.280 you know, we weren't sneaking under anywire. I mean, this 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:31.280 guy is It was obvious. He was pretty sophisticated, and 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:35.959 he was able to get Jack Nicholas, Tom Fasio, Pete Dye, 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.880 whoever he wanted on the phone, and could have hired 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.960 any of them. So it was pretty obvious to my 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:46.040 dad and I that we were in a competition and 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.960 we were way the hell out of our league, especially me. 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.480 I'm twenty six years old and I haven't done Jack, 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:53.600 you know. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.400 Pausing David's narrative for a second. Going back to Josh, 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.240 where the Lesnicks were also eyeing for the contract to 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:02.599 work with Kaiser. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.600 There was a bit of a competition as to who 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.760 was going to manage bandon Dunes. The company David worked 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:12.840 for at the time that he mentioned, Glen Eagles Golf, 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.880 also had a management arm or said they had a 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.440 management arm. Not sure what all they were managing, but 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.520 there was a bit of a bakeoff between Kemper Sports 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.920 and Glen Eagles Golf. It happened at our sister company, Kemper. Lesnik, 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.840 the public relations agency, has an office downtown we met 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:34.199 Mike there. Glenn Eagles was there. David wasn't in that meeting. 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.880 I was there just watching my dad do his thing. 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.800 Which is he's a phenomenal salesperson. 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:45.559 And thankfully Mike selected Kemper Sports to manage it, and 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.560 he called me the next week after that meeting and said, 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.560 I'd like you to think about moving out there. 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.480 Steve Lesnig founded Kemper Sports in nineteen seventy eight with 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.200 a focus on golf course development and various aspects of management. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.360 Steve reflects on k Are picking his son as the 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.400 first general manager of Bandon Dunes. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:08.839 It was another a great insight of Mike we all 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.520 know he has so many because he recognized that Josh 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:18.440 had a passion for the game that equaled his own. 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:23.520 And Matt, as you well know, his extraordinary people's skills 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:30.439 really contributed to the development of Bandon doings. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.960 Meanwhile, the kids, specifically David, was back in Bandon and 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.160 he wasn't having an easy time coming to terms with 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.080 their odds to get the job of building the golf course. 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.160 I took a little bit of a fans to the 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.040 whole thing. I figured that my dad and I as 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:51.040 these you know, colloquial skulls out there on this piece 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.760 of land with this mega rich guy from Chicago going 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.760 to fly in in his private jet. You know, we 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.040 were just entertainment. I mean, there's no way this guy's 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.840 going to hire us. So I take it upon myself 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:09.160 to be blunt, I mean just kind of brutally blunt 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.079 with them, because I figure he's not going to hire 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.720 us anyway, so what the hell? So I paint out 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.360 this scenario that if you really want to build a 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:22.840 real links course in America, in this place that's miles 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.400 from anywhere, then you need to be authentic. But I 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.320 know you won't do it. I mean, I've seen what 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.640 links golf is in America. Links golf in America is 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:35.280 Peble Beach, with everyone driving golf cars and playing into 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.160 poll A greens with perfectly trimmed bunker edges. You know, 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.840 I pick up any American golf magazine and every new 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.440 course is called a links course, and they're not links 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.720 at all. They're not even close to a links course. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.480 He's very entrepreneurial, he could say brash. I would say 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.720 entrepreneurial and cantident. 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.520 Call it what you want. But David brought all of 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.840 it to a pitch meeting at the c Star Guesthouse 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.160 in downtown Bandon. 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:04.520 And I gave what would be today a PowerPoint presentation, 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.200 but I did it with poster boards and a sharpie pens, 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.440 and I wrote down on these poster boards, you know, 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.880 like no cart paths, and make you know they would walk, 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.360 and that the fairways would be uneven and there'd be 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.680 pot bunkers, and the clubhouse shouldn't be on the water's edge. 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.800 It should, you know, the best green should be on 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:25.800 the water's edge. 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:30.520 I said to David, if we deviate at any anytime 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.920 from offering Mike anything more than a true and I 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.960 mean a true Links experience, Irish Links experience here, you 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:40.560 will not hire us as architects. 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:41.680 He will go elsewhere. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:42.720 I mean. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:48.480 It was completely the antithesis of American golf development circa 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.320 the nineteen nineties. It was everything that golf was not, 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.880 and lo and behold, it pretty much was exactly what 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.920 the audience was there to hear. That was I was 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.880 pushing an open door with Mike. That was actually what 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:03.960 his intentions were. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.360 I think it was a meeting of eight or so 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.840 of us who'd flown out with me from Chicago, eight 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:15.280 friends and avid golfers and Goersionado's who were there basically 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.360 to say, you've got to be nuts to do this. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:23.200 And I think David Kidd gave his presentation to convince them, 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.680 to convince me that it wasn't such a crazy idea. 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.960 He kedn, you know, how do we get hired? AIKIDN, 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:31.640 Do I really want to do this? 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.560 In theory, the kids had the job and that was 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.080 because of their commitment to building true links, and Kemper 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.160 Sports had the job to manage it. But why does 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.080 Josh Lesnik, the age of twenty nine think he was 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:47.480 Kaiser's chosen one. 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.560 I think in the end, maybe the way Mike feels 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.880 if Kemper Sports was going to manage it and the 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.640 owner was willing, the owner of Kemper Sports was willing 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.760 to send his son out there, that they weren't going 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:02.200 to let me fail. They were going to get me 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:06.639 all the support I needed to be successful opening. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:08.280 That resort. 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.359 And that's, you know, what our company's all about is 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.160 supporting the general managers to be successful. And I had 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:19.240 a ton of support, whether it be accounting, legal operations, policies, procedures, 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.600 all the things that maybe weren't my straints mine probably 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.439 more in building the relationships and communications and building the 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.280 brand abandoned Dunes. But you know, I think he was 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.359 just like, well, the company's not going to let Josh fail. 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.200 Let's send let's send him out there. 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:37.159 Steve Lesnick agrees. 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.040 By having my son go out this was going to 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:44.159 have my full attention and the full attention of the organization, 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.200 because we certainly were not going to let Josh fail 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.240 or not be successful, or not. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:50.960 Hit the ball out of the park. 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.040 I know we've all watched the last dance these last 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:59.080 couple of weeks, and it is true that in a 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:03.080 way organization win championships. But you know what, the players play, 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.440 and Josh played, and those first three years were crucial 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.080 to all of us, to the success of all of us, 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.720 the reputation of all of us, and he did a 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.160 great job, and I'm very, very proud of him. 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.720 Like I said a few minutes ago, in Theory, the 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.879 kids had the job to build the course. Josh the 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.399 GM and David the Kid explained. 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.600 I'm not sure Mike ever gave him the job. 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.560 Every time he came out there, he was like, let's 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.639 see what he can do, and he just kept living 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.280 up to the task. Every time he had an idea 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.359 about a hole in the route and this and that, 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.440 Mike liked it more and more and gave him more 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:40.880 and more of a I. 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:42.760 Mean, David, is that how you kind of remember it? 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:44.200 Yeah? 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:48.520 I wrote Mike a proposal that basically sold him my 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:53.200 time on a day basis a day rate, and Mike 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.960 sent me back a fax that was on recycled paper 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.920 and hated no paper, and it said, Okay, let's go, 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.320 and that's all it said, classic Mike Kaiser. 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.720 David had never done a golf course. He just had 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.600 this lineage that I thought, as long as his father, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.159 Jimmy was involved, it would work out okay, And so 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.359 it was. Jimmy was a great help to David. They 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.520 came over and bushwacked through the gorse plants and came 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.440 up with this routing that was pretty good. Not good 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.560 enough to build, but pretty good. And they were the architects. 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.760 We heard why Josh thought he got hired, So why 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:38.080 does David think he got to build bandits? 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.919 I think Mike hired me for what I didn't know, 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.840 You know, I didn't know how it screwed up because 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:45.719 I never built much jails. 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.680 What I had was this extremely. 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:56.560 Raw in instinct for what golf is in the British Isles, 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:01.399 and so it wasn't uncommon to me I had. I 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:05.280 barely played many golf courses driving a golf cart on 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.359 a concrete path, much less built one. So I didn't 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.720 know how to do that. I hadn't built a bunch 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.800 of lakes with fountains on a golf course, much less 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:14.360 played one. 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.040 As for kids compensation, he was getting a daily fee. 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.560 It was about a couple of hundred bucks. I think 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.360 something in there. But I was working for a company, 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.840 so I lived on site at Bandon through the whole 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.560 entire build, so pretty much it was like eight or 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.040 nine months I was on site, and that year I 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:34.440 made forty thousand. 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:35.240 That year. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.480 You think Mike Kaiser got a steal the best deal ever? 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.600 Did Mike Kaiser on the team he had assembled. 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.280 David had never designed a golf course, and Josh had 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.520 never managed a golf course or anything. So I had 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.800 dude talk about rookies, real rookie. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.200 But David had his dad Jimmy. 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.920 Too sort of hubbler, a little bit and guide him, 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.320 and David then didn't find in his own and Josh's dad, 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:12.080 Steve Lesnick, was president and owner of Kemper Sports. I 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.520 figured that the dad there, Steve Lesnick, would not let 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:19.040 his son fail, and in fact, Josh did great on 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.359 his own, but that remained in my mind a big 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.359 thing that Kemper Sports was not going to let this 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:27.680 be anything other than a great success, and they worked 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:28.080 hard at it. 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.160