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Speaker 1: Mike was relatively quiet.

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Speaker 2: He was basically listening to what everyone was saying, and

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Speaker 2: everyone seemed to be happy to be there, even before

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Speaker 2: they had even before they'd hit a shot, they were

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Speaker 2: delighted to be there.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it was.

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Speaker 2: The just the atmosphere of an opening day and a

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Speaker 2: golf course.

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Speaker 1: But when they came.

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Speaker 2: Back in, Mike Goodness, the comments and the clubhouse, and

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Speaker 2: the atmosphere in the clubhouse was just out of this world.

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Speaker 2: You could almost even today, I could you can feel

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Speaker 2: it here in the back of your next standing up

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Speaker 2: because you knew that something had happened to you in

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Speaker 2: a place which was out in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 2: It was an incredible day.

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Speaker 3: Put another log on fire.

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Speaker 4: Nobody here is getting tired. Welcome to the fire pit

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Speaker 4: with Matt Chanella.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back. Settle in this story is one that means

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Speaker 5: a little more to me than most. After all. On

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Speaker 5: May twelfth, twenty seventeen, we named our son Bandon, which,

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Speaker 5: according to some research by my wife, means cooperative, courteous,

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Speaker 5: and she says people named Bandon tend to be considerate. Apparently,

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Speaker 5: peace and harmony are of the utmost importance to someone

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Speaker 5: named Bandon. If you've been to the resort or have

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Speaker 5: met my son, you'd say most of the above is true.

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Speaker 5: As far as our sun goes. It's a work in

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Speaker 5: progress in terms of the destination. I've been covering the

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Speaker 5: development of Abandon Dunes since two thousand and one, and

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Speaker 5: I've been going there every year for my annual Buddies trip,

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Speaker 5: the Uncle Tony Invitational, since two thousand and seven. The

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Speaker 5: fire pit at Bandon Dunes in the middle of the

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Speaker 5: Grove cottages, the nights I've had there, the stories I've

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Speaker 5: told and heard there, that was the inspiration for this podcast.

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Speaker 5: Today you'll hear part one of the building of Bandon

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Speaker 5: Dunes as told by Mike Kaiser, the owner, David McLeay

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Speaker 5: Kidd and his father Jimmy, the architects, and Josh Lesnik

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Speaker 5: and his father Steve, who won the bid to manage it.

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Speaker 5: I interviewed Mike Kaiser on his own David and Josh together,

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Speaker 5: and Steve Lesnik and Jimmy Kidd together. Bandon Dunes, the

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Speaker 5: original course at what is now the best pure golf

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Speaker 5: destination in America and arguably the world, was an outlier

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Speaker 5: that opened in nineteen ninety nine. Like sand Hills and Mulla, Nebraska.

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Speaker 5: The story we told in the previous episode of this podcast,

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Speaker 5: to build a golf course in a remote location using

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Speaker 5: a minimalist architect or architects was anything but what was

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Speaker 5: being built in America. In the nineties, Mike Kaiser of

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Speaker 5: Recycled Paper Greetings in Chicago started developing courses with the

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Speaker 5: Dunes Club, a private but non pretentious nine hole course

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Speaker 5: built in the sand of New Buffalo, Michigan. Kaiser was

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Speaker 5: then brought in to invest a little money into what

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Speaker 5: Young's Cap was building in Nebraska.

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Speaker 1: My model has always been even though Dornick and St.

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Speaker 6: Andrews old are important, Pine Valley has always been my

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Speaker 6: model because it's in the US. It's not remote, but

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Speaker 6: it's sort of a hole in the wall place and

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Speaker 6: it's totally natural, built on sand dunes. It doesn't have

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Speaker 6: an ocean, but magnificent sand dunes. So that was my

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Speaker 6: motivator and model for the Dunes Club. And when I

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Speaker 6: saw sand Hills that was in the same genre as

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Speaker 6: Pine Valley, and before we knew.

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Speaker 1: It, Dick was full.

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Speaker 6: That gave me a lot of courage out there in

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Speaker 6: Mandon because that was the missing ingredient the courage to

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Speaker 6: build something in Bandon.

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Speaker 5: Or Kaiser says that when sand Hills got one hundred

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Speaker 5: and fifty members in Mullen, that's the mitosis of modern

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Speaker 5: minimalism in America. As Bill Corr said, a watershed moment.

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Speaker 5: But what if it didn't work? Why was this worth

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Speaker 5: the risk? For Mike Kaiser, you.

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Speaker 6: Know, Josh and I discussed you know what happens if

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Speaker 6: no one comes, or what happens if we break even?

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Speaker 6: Because we all had bats the first year how many

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Speaker 6: rounds we would do, and twelve thousand rounds is break even.

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Speaker 6: And most of our bats about how many rounds we

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Speaker 6: would do were less than twelve thousand rounds. So in

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Speaker 6: my group, no one thought we would break even. And

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Speaker 6: their discussion, I remembered brabi than the Ninetyfore, Well, if

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Speaker 6: it doesn't work, I'll give it three years for it

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Speaker 6: to catch on, and if it doesn't, we'll turn.

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Speaker 5: It into a sheep ranch, which is a bit ironic

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Speaker 5: considering this podcast is going live on the eve of

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Speaker 5: the opening of the Sheep Ranch, the sixth course at

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Speaker 5: Bandon Dune's another Billcore and Ben Crenshaw designed. Their story

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Speaker 5: is told in episode six of The fire Pit. But

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Speaker 5: we start this story in January of nineteen ninety one,

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Speaker 5: Mike Kaiser's first trip to Bandon, Oregon, five hundred miles

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Speaker 5: north of San Francisco, almost three hundred miles south of Portland.

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Speaker 5: Kaiser is standing on what's now the fourteenth tea of

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Speaker 5: bandoned trails, looking out over Gorse choked dunesland out to

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Speaker 5: the Pacific Ocean.

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Speaker 6: I went to the lookout site which you've seen with

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Speaker 6: Shorty and Charlotte Dowe, the caretakers of thirty five years

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Speaker 6: of the property who knew the property better than anyone,

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Speaker 6: and he said, if you're looking for a golf course,

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Speaker 6: Shorty said, I'll take you to the spot, and the

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Speaker 6: spot is marked today is the spot that Shorty down

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Speaker 6: took Mike Kayser and I looked out and said, this

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Speaker 6: is it. There can't be another site. It was just

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Speaker 6: I later toured the land, which was twelve hundred acres,

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Speaker 6: but just from that lookout site it had everything. It

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Speaker 6: had beautiful sand dunes that had the ocean. You just

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Speaker 6: knew it was as good as Dornick, or in the

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Speaker 6: same brat as Dornick and Belly Bunion without knowing the

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Speaker 6: specific so that one tour with Shorty and Charlotte was.

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Speaker 1: All I needed to see.

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Speaker 6: So then all I had to do was buy it

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Speaker 6: from Duke Watson and Seattle Washington, and yet David Kidd

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Speaker 6: and his father on board to do a routing.

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Speaker 5: Before we get to the kids, I circled back on

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Speaker 5: the cost.

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Speaker 1: They were asking five.

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Speaker 6: It had been in the market for four and a

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Speaker 6: half years, according to Shorty Dow and a broker, so

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Speaker 6: I felt that there were there weren't any buyers, that

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Speaker 6: I was probably the only buyer, and therefore Anne decided

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Speaker 6: that you would be much more effective if I was

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Speaker 6: seeking a fifty percent discount.

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Speaker 1: I went there in person.

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Speaker 6: So I flew out to see Duke Watson, the owner,

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Speaker 6: along with his two brothers in law, and said, Duke,

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Speaker 6: I don't have enough money to do this project, so

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Speaker 6: I can only pay you half of what you're asking.

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Speaker 6: If you're asking five, I'll give you two and a half.

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Speaker 6: And he said, let us let us go caucus. So

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Speaker 6: they went into these three there were in their eighties

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Speaker 6: or the old guys, go into another room and came

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Speaker 6: back fifteen minutes and I said, well take it.

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Speaker 1: They became big fans.

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Speaker 6: That Duke in particular came down at numerous times and said,

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Speaker 6: you know, it was always dream to build a resort,

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Speaker 6: and you've gone and done it.

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Speaker 5: Now that he has the land and we know Kaiser's inspirations,

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Speaker 5: he was looking for some authenticity in terms of the

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Speaker 5: course itself, which is about the time Kaiser had a

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Speaker 5: conversation with Rick Summers, who worked for Glen Eagle's Golf

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Speaker 5: Developments in Scotland and worked with David McLay Kidd, who

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Speaker 5: was in his mid twenties.

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Speaker 7: And in that conversation, Rick said, why don't you hire

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Speaker 7: a Scottish architect if you're trying to build a Scottish

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Speaker 7: links course, And Mike said, I would, but there aren't any.

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Speaker 8: The old died one hundred years ago.

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Speaker 5: And then Ian Ferrier, also of Glen Eagle's Golf Developments,

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Speaker 5: made a trip to the States to try and drum

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Speaker 5: up some business.

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Speaker 6: And Ian came to see me and said, if you're

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Speaker 6: looking for someone to do a links golf course, which

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Speaker 6: is how I defined it, there's only one group for you,

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Speaker 6: and that's the Kid family. David Kidd and his father

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Speaker 6: Jimmy know what they're doing. Come on over to Glen

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Speaker 6: Eagle's and we'll show.

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Speaker 5: You entered Jimmy Kidd, David's father and the director of

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Speaker 5: agronomy at Glen and Eagles in Scotland.

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Speaker 2: We will bring Mike to Scotland. We will base them

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Speaker 2: at Glen Eagles Hotel. We will visit Irish Links, we

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Speaker 2: will visit Scottish Links. We will convince Mike that we

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Speaker 2: know everything about Link's golf, how it should play, how

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Speaker 2: it should look, what kind of vegetation and such light.

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Speaker 2: And we got to we got down to North Berwick.

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Speaker 2: It was the very last one that we played, and

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Speaker 2: we played the second hole. Mike pushed one onto the

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Speaker 2: beach and he said, well that's set, I'll drop another ball.

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Speaker 8: I said, no, you want, Mike go down there and

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Speaker 8: play it.

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Speaker 2: Yeahlish As you can't play it, I said, get down

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Speaker 2: on the beach and play it back.

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Speaker 1: He knoked it back to nine feet and hold the

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Speaker 1: pup for a three. And at that point I knew

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Speaker 1: had the project.

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Speaker 6: I was totally captivated by Jimmy Kidd, who's my age

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Speaker 6: in particular, who convinced me that he knew everything you

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Speaker 6: could passively know about golf and Scarland and especially link Scott.

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Speaker 5: Jimmy Kidd was a bit of a legend. His son

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Speaker 5: David was still leaning on.

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Speaker 7: His d You know, my father was in a group

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Speaker 7: along with Walter Woodsits and Andrews, George Brown at Turnbree

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Speaker 7: and I'm merry out of others that he came up

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Speaker 7: through the ranks with. And my childhood was staying at

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Speaker 7: these golf courses, with these superintendents and golf crews. I

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Speaker 7: completely immersed in Scottish golf.

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Speaker 5: Meanwhile, back in Chicago, Josh Lesnik was trending to work

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Speaker 5: in his father's business.

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Speaker 9: You know, I grew up in the golf business as well.

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Speaker 9: I mean he grew up with superintendents, and I grew

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Speaker 9: up more on the service side, working at Kemper Lakes,

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Speaker 9: which was, you know, one of the first upscale daily

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Speaker 9: fee golf courses opened in the in around nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 9: nineteen eighty, I think all eighteen holes open and I

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Speaker 9: worked there in summers of high school and college.

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Speaker 4: Because services is.

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Speaker 9: A way that my dad, the founder of Kemper Sports,

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Speaker 9: always felt that we could differentiate ourselves.

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Speaker 5: Stars haven't aligned yet, but we're getting there. The kids

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Speaker 5: receiving an invite to Kaiser's land in Abandon. That's a

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Speaker 5: big step.

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Speaker 7: And my father and I flew out in July of

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Speaker 7: nineteen ninety four to Bandon Dun's and we spent a

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Speaker 7: week on the site with Shorty Dow who just passed

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Speaker 7: a year ago or so, who was the caretaker of

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Speaker 7: the sixteen hundred acres if I remember right, that Mike

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Speaker 7: had purchased, and my father and I spent a week

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Speaker 7: going around the land. My dad and I were super

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Speaker 7: excited at what the possibilities were. We thought the piece

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Speaker 7: of land that Mike had had huge potential, and we

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Speaker 7: thought maybe somehow we were sneaking under the wire into

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Speaker 7: America for a developer that some way, somehow was going

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Speaker 7: to hire these complete unknowns to build a golf course.

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Speaker 7: But what happened was during that week, Shorty kept asking

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Speaker 7: my dad and I for our business cards. I mean

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Speaker 7: he kept asking and asking and asking, and so it

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Speaker 7: became obvious that he was collecting business cards. So I said, sure,

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Speaker 7: I'll give you a business card, but I want to

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Speaker 7: see your collection. And when I saw the collection he had,

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Speaker 7: my heart sank because the collection had all of my

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Speaker 7: heroes in it. I mean, Mike had had everybody out there,

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Speaker 7: you know, we weren't sneaking under anywire. I mean, this

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Speaker 7: guy is It was obvious. He was pretty sophisticated, and

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Speaker 7: he was able to get Jack Nicholas, Tom Fasio, Pete Dye,

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Speaker 7: whoever he wanted on the phone, and could have hired

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Speaker 7: any of them. So it was pretty obvious to my

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Speaker 7: dad and I that we were in a competition and

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Speaker 7: we were way the hell out of our league, especially me.

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Speaker 7: I'm twenty six years old and I haven't done Jack,

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Speaker 7: you know.

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Speaker 5: Pausing David's narrative for a second. Going back to Josh,

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Speaker 5: where the Lesnicks were also eyeing for the contract to

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Speaker 5: work with Kaiser.

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Speaker 9: There was a bit of a competition as to who

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Speaker 9: was going to manage bandon Dunes. The company David worked

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Speaker 9: for at the time that he mentioned, Glen Eagles Golf,

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Speaker 9: also had a management arm or said they had a

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Speaker 9: management arm. Not sure what all they were managing, but

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Speaker 9: there was a bit of a bakeoff between Kemper Sports

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Speaker 9: and Glen Eagles Golf. It happened at our sister company, Kemper. Lesnik,

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Speaker 9: the public relations agency, has an office downtown we met

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Speaker 9: Mike there. Glenn Eagles was there. David wasn't in that meeting.

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Speaker 9: I was there just watching my dad do his thing.

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Speaker 4: Which is he's a phenomenal salesperson.

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Speaker 9: And thankfully Mike selected Kemper Sports to manage it, and

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Speaker 9: he called me the next week after that meeting and said,

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Speaker 9: I'd like you to think about moving out there.

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Speaker 5: Steve Lesnig founded Kemper Sports in nineteen seventy eight with

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Speaker 5: a focus on golf course development and various aspects of management.

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Speaker 5: Steve reflects on k Are picking his son as the

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Speaker 5: first general manager of Bandon Dunes.

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Speaker 10: It was another a great insight of Mike we all

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Speaker 10: know he has so many because he recognized that Josh

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Speaker 10: had a passion for the game that equaled his own.

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Speaker 10: And Matt, as you well know, his extraordinary people's skills

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Speaker 10: really contributed to the development of Bandon doings.

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Speaker 5: Meanwhile, the kids, specifically David, was back in Bandon and

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Speaker 5: he wasn't having an easy time coming to terms with

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Speaker 5: their odds to get the job of building the golf course.

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Speaker 7: I took a little bit of a fans to the

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Speaker 7: whole thing. I figured that my dad and I as

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Speaker 7: these you know, colloquial skulls out there on this piece

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Speaker 7: of land with this mega rich guy from Chicago going

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Speaker 7: to fly in in his private jet. You know, we

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Speaker 7: were just entertainment. I mean, there's no way this guy's

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Speaker 7: going to hire us. So I take it upon myself

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Speaker 7: to be blunt, I mean just kind of brutally blunt

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Speaker 7: with them, because I figure he's not going to hire

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Speaker 7: us anyway, so what the hell? So I paint out

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Speaker 7: this scenario that if you really want to build a

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Speaker 7: real links course in America, in this place that's miles

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Speaker 7: from anywhere, then you need to be authentic. But I

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Speaker 7: know you won't do it. I mean, I've seen what

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Speaker 7: links golf is in America. Links golf in America is

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Speaker 7: Peble Beach, with everyone driving golf cars and playing into

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Speaker 7: poll A greens with perfectly trimmed bunker edges. You know,

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Speaker 7: I pick up any American golf magazine and every new

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Speaker 7: course is called a links course, and they're not links

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Speaker 7: at all. They're not even close to a links course.

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Speaker 6: He's very entrepreneurial, he could say brash. I would say

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Speaker 6: entrepreneurial and cantident.

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Speaker 5: Call it what you want. But David brought all of

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Speaker 5: it to a pitch meeting at the c Star Guesthouse

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Speaker 5: in downtown Bandon.

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Speaker 7: And I gave what would be today a PowerPoint presentation,

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Speaker 7: but I did it with poster boards and a sharpie pens,

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Speaker 7: and I wrote down on these poster boards, you know,

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Speaker 7: like no cart paths, and make you know they would walk,

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Speaker 7: and that the fairways would be uneven and there'd be

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Speaker 7: pot bunkers, and the clubhouse shouldn't be on the water's edge.

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Speaker 7: It should, you know, the best green should be on

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Speaker 7: the water's edge.

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Speaker 2: I said to David, if we deviate at any anytime

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Speaker 2: from offering Mike anything more than a true and I

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Speaker 2: mean a true Links experience, Irish Links experience here, you

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Speaker 2: will not hire us as architects.

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Speaker 4: He will go elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 7: It was completely the antithesis of American golf development circa

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Speaker 7: the nineteen nineties. It was everything that golf was not,

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Speaker 7: and lo and behold, it pretty much was exactly what

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Speaker 7: the audience was there to hear. That was I was

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Speaker 7: pushing an open door with Mike. That was actually what

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Speaker 7: his intentions were.

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Speaker 6: I think it was a meeting of eight or so

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Speaker 6: of us who'd flown out with me from Chicago, eight

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Speaker 6: friends and avid golfers and Goersionado's who were there basically

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Speaker 6: to say, you've got to be nuts to do this.

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Speaker 1: And I think David Kidd gave his presentation to convince them,

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Speaker 1: to convince me that it wasn't such a crazy idea.

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Speaker 1: He kedn, you know, how do we get hired? AIKIDN,

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Speaker 1: Do I really want to do this?

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Speaker 5: In theory, the kids had the job and that was

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Speaker 5: because of their commitment to building true links, and Kemper

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Speaker 5: Sports had the job to manage it. But why does

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Speaker 5: Josh Lesnik, the age of twenty nine think he was

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Speaker 5: Kaiser's chosen one.

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Speaker 9: I think in the end, maybe the way Mike feels

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Speaker 9: if Kemper Sports was going to manage it and the

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Speaker 9: owner was willing, the owner of Kemper Sports was willing

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Speaker 9: to send his son out there, that they weren't going

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Speaker 9: to let me fail. They were going to get me

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Speaker 9: all the support I needed to be successful opening.

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Speaker 4: That resort.

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Speaker 9: And that's, you know, what our company's all about is

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Speaker 9: supporting the general managers to be successful. And I had

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Speaker 9: a ton of support, whether it be accounting, legal operations, policies, procedures,

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Speaker 9: all the things that maybe weren't my straints mine probably

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Speaker 9: more in building the relationships and communications and building the

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Speaker 9: brand abandoned Dunes. But you know, I think he was

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Speaker 9: just like, well, the company's not going to let Josh fail.

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Speaker 9: Let's send let's send him out there.

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Speaker 5: Steve Lesnick agrees.

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Speaker 10: By having my son go out this was going to

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Speaker 10: have my full attention and the full attention of the organization,

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Speaker 10: because we certainly were not going to let Josh fail

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Speaker 10: or not be successful, or not.

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Speaker 4: Hit the ball out of the park.

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Speaker 10: I know we've all watched the last dance these last

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Speaker 10: couple of weeks, and it is true that in a

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Speaker 10: way organization win championships. But you know what, the players play,

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Speaker 10: and Josh played, and those first three years were crucial

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Speaker 10: to all of us, to the success of all of us,

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Speaker 10: the reputation of all of us, and he did a

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Speaker 10: great job, and I'm very, very proud of him.

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Speaker 5: Like I said a few minutes ago, in Theory, the

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Speaker 5: kids had the job to build the course. Josh the

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Speaker 5: GM and David the Kid explained.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure Mike ever gave him the job.

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Speaker 9: Every time he came out there, he was like, let's

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Speaker 9: see what he can do, and he just kept living

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Speaker 9: up to the task. Every time he had an idea

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Speaker 9: about a hole in the route and this and that,

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Speaker 9: Mike liked it more and more and gave him more

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Speaker 9: and more of a I.

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Speaker 4: Mean, David, is that how you kind of remember it?

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Speaker 8: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: I wrote Mike a proposal that basically sold him my

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Speaker 7: time on a day basis a day rate, and Mike

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Speaker 7: sent me back a fax that was on recycled paper

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Speaker 7: and hated no paper, and it said, Okay, let's go,

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Speaker 7: and that's all it said, classic Mike Kaiser.

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Speaker 6: David had never done a golf course. He just had

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Speaker 6: this lineage that I thought, as long as his father,

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Speaker 6: Jimmy was involved, it would work out okay, And so

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Speaker 6: it was. Jimmy was a great help to David. They

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Speaker 6: came over and bushwacked through the gorse plants and came

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Speaker 6: up with this routing that was pretty good. Not good

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Speaker 6: enough to build, but pretty good. And they were the architects.

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Speaker 5: We heard why Josh thought he got hired, So why

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Speaker 5: does David think he got to build bandits?

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Speaker 7: I think Mike hired me for what I didn't know,

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Speaker 7: You know, I didn't know how it screwed up because

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Speaker 7: I never built much jails.

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Speaker 8: What I had was this extremely.

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Speaker 7: Raw in instinct for what golf is in the British Isles,

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Speaker 7: and so it wasn't uncommon to me I had. I

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Speaker 7: barely played many golf courses driving a golf cart on

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Speaker 7: a concrete path, much less built one. So I didn't

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Speaker 7: know how to do that. I hadn't built a bunch

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Speaker 7: of lakes with fountains on a golf course, much less

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Speaker 7: played one.

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Speaker 5: As for kids compensation, he was getting a daily fee.

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Speaker 7: It was about a couple of hundred bucks. I think

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Speaker 7: something in there. But I was working for a company,

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Speaker 7: so I lived on site at Bandon through the whole

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Speaker 7: entire build, so pretty much it was like eight or

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Speaker 7: nine months I was on site, and that year I

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Speaker 7: made forty thousand.

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Speaker 8: That year.

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Speaker 7: You think Mike Kaiser got a steal the best deal ever?

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Speaker 5: Did Mike Kaiser on the team he had assembled.

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Speaker 6: David had never designed a golf course, and Josh had

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Speaker 6: never managed a golf course or anything. So I had

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Speaker 6: dude talk about rookies, real rookie.

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Speaker 1: But David had his dad Jimmy.

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Speaker 6: Too sort of hubbler, a little bit and guide him,

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Speaker 6: and David then didn't find in his own and Josh's dad,

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Speaker 6: Steve Lesnick, was president and owner of Kemper Sports. I

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Speaker 6: figured that the dad there, Steve Lesnick, would not let

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Speaker 6: his son fail, and in fact, Josh did great on

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Speaker 6: his own, but that remained in my mind a big

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Speaker 6: thing that Kemper Sports was not going to let this

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Speaker 6: be anything other than a great success, and they worked

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Speaker 6: hard at it.

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Speaker 5: Josh and David, both in their twenties, would meet on

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Speaker 5: what would be the Twelfth Hole abandoned dunes about two

403
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Speaker 5: hundred yards from the coastline.

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Speaker 9: Because I remember my first visit flying out with Mike

405
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Speaker 9: and we basically went went straight to what is now

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Speaker 9: the twelfth Tee to meet you, and Mike said, well,

407
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Speaker 9: this looks like a part three. What are we going

408
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Speaker 9: to do here? He said, well, we're standing on this dune.

409
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Speaker 9: This is going to be the tea. That part that

410
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 9: looks like a green right there, that's going to be

411
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 9: agreed And Mike, well, what are you going to do

412
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 9: in between? He said, not much, maybe just like one

413
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 9: really deep bunker. And you know that's the Twelfth Hole

414
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Speaker 9: today as it stands there, And.

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Speaker 6: I said, well, I'm in the greeting card guy, greeting

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Speaker 6: card business guys, and I know the power of a

417
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Speaker 6: visual and this is a great photograph. And Josh, take

418
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Speaker 6: a photo of this right now before we build it,

419
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Speaker 6: because after we build it, it's going to be a

420
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Speaker 6: bat News photograph. And we're going to take that photo

421
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Speaker 6: and we're going to make reading cards and send them

422
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Speaker 6: to everyone we know in the golf business. And there

423
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 6: was our initial press release that not hard on copy.

424
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Speaker 6: It was just a photo of number twelve and the

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Speaker 6: copy was for additional information called jeshuas.

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Speaker 1: Well.

427
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Speaker 5: Josh was busy getting the word out. David was busy

428
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Speaker 5: in the dunes.

429
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Speaker 7: The sequence we worked through was we started on the

430
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Speaker 7: holes that were on the ocean, so twelve, fifteen, and

431
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 7: sixteen were the first one that got built, and those

432
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Speaker 7: are iconic gouffles. So I think that Josh and I

433
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 7: both were we lacked hesitation. We were both sort of

434
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 7: point and shoot at that point in our lives. We

435
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 7: did not have any doubts in what we were doing.

436
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Speaker 7: We didn't I guess we were too dumb to know

437
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 7: the risks that we were involved in or the how

438
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Speaker 7: it could all go wrong.

439
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Speaker 4: We were.

440
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 7: It was straight point and shoot. I mean we were like, Okay,

441
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 7: I'm going in this direction, lead follower, get this out

442
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 7: of my way. I mean, I'm going this way. And

443
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 7: we both had our own little teams that were happy

444
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 7: to follow. I mean, if we were both Godfathers and

445
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 7: the Mafia, we had the group around us that would

446
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 7: have died for us.

447
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 8: At that point.

448
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 5: Mike Kaiser stayed close to the process.

449
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 6: Truly, and it was David and Jimmy and then later

450
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 6: Jimmy Withdrew once we had a routing and it was

451
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 6: pretty much all David and his brash approach, and you know,

452
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,239
Speaker 6: I approved everything and liked what I saw, hold by

453
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 6: hold by hold.

454
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 5: Josh remembers the thirteenth Pole as being something he had

455
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 5: never seen before.

456
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 9: You had, you know, an American shaper, and no one

457
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 9: could believe that you wanted to leave that fairway with

458
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,479
Speaker 9: all the dunes in it, and you know, having David

459
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 9: there was, I mean, it was so inspirational for the

460
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 9: whole project.

461
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 4: But that fair every time I walk.

462
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 9: Down that fairway, I think about those discussions and how

463
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 9: you and Jimmy, your dad were wanted to leave the

464
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 9: dudes there no, it's unlike any other American fairways. You're

465
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 9: saying that may be common in Scotland, but one very

466
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 9: common here. And that's just one of the so many

467
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 9: ways you had effect on that property in that project.

468
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 4: Really a neat memory.

469
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 5: I asked David of the original routing that got them

470
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 5: the job, what if anything changed during the build?

471
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 7: Well, the first routing, the back nine never really changed.

472
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 7: Holds ten through eighteen were on the very first layouts

473
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 7: and they pretty well got built. The front nine got

474
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 7: completely changed. The original parcel that Mike had bought, the

475
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 7: northern boundary was basically the existing third hole. The third

476
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 7: hole was on the plan, but everything north of that

477
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 7: did not exit.

478
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 8: Mike didn't own that land.

479
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: I hope he told you about David Schumann and the

480
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: land next door. He might not have said this, but

481
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: David and his father's original layout and the twelve hundred

482
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: acres was about three holes short of being really good.

483
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: And I told David that and he was sort of

484
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: respond so I've used a bob a land. What do

485
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: you want me to do? And I said, I don't know.

486
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: You're the golf court, you're the golf architect. You think

487
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: of it virtually at that moment it was you know,

488
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: it was weeks and weeks later our neighbor to the

489
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: north declared bankruptcy. It enabled meet to buy it and

490
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: to give to David what became.

491
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 6: Number five, six, seven, and eight the really good holes.

492
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 6: Those in particular were gifts from big golf guys. Who

493
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 6: would have thought that within months of having this log

494
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 6: jam with David Kid that the land would present itself.

495
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 5: We know Bandon Dunes now as pristine minimalism, with picturesque imperfections,

496
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 5: natural nuances and such a soulful approach to the game

497
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 5: as it was meant to be. But back then, I

498
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 5: wondered if there was much of a social life in

499
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 5: and around this budding destination.

500
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 9: It's a small resort town. It wasn't even a resort

501
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 9: town at that time. It was becoming a resort town.

502
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 9: And when you live in a small resort town and

503
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 9: your David Kid or you're Josh, you're kind of always on.

504
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 9: I mean, you're always that's you're representing Bandon Dunes, You're

505
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 9: representing Mike Kaiser. So work never ends. Fortunately, as it grew,

506
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 9: you know, David was surrounded by the people that work

507
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 9: for him, I was surrounded by the people that work

508
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 9: for us, and.

509
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 4: You know, maybe there's one local bar in town.

510
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 8: Where you could go Lloyd's abandon.

511
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: Lloyd's abandoned, which I heard reopened. I haven't been back there,

512
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 4: but goodness, I heard it reopen.

513
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 9: Everyone had been going to the Arcade, which is owned

514
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 9: by a family that works at the resort, and a

515
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 9: couple of caddies bought it.

516
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 4: And it's a great place, the Arcade Tavern.

517
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,239
Speaker 9: But back then it was Lloyd's, and uh, you know,

518
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 9: I had a house and would open my house to anybody,

519
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 9: and you know, so it's just small resort town and

520
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 9: you kind of live and work and play with those

521
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 9: that you work with.

522
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 7: Wait, there was there was a law of drinking went

523
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 7: on by then was a lot. When I was building

524
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 7: the golf course in the heat of battle in late

525
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 7: ninety seven and then through ninety eight, there was nothing there.

526
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 7: There wasn't even a road up onto the golf course,

527
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 7: so we were hiking through sand to get out onto

528
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 7: the golf course every day. And then sometimes I would

529
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 7: drive up to Empire while the guys were working and

530
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 7: I'd buy a bushel of oysters or some tuna and

531
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 7: I'd bring it back to the site and I'd build

532
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 7: a fire below the sixteenth Green. We did this many times,

533
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 7: and I would barbecue the oysters, cut up the tuna,

534
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 7: put cold beers down there, and then after work people

535
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 7: would drive down where the sheep branches now break out

536
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 7: onto the beach, and their pickup trucks come around and

537
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 7: park underneath what is now sixteen Green and we would

538
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 7: party there until I got dark or very dark, and

539
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 7: we'd be hitting golf balls down the beach and drinking

540
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 7: beers and eat oysters. Uh.

541
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 8: And that went on quite a bit.

542
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, and then I would I would get a call

543
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 9: the next day from Mike Kaiser about what was what

544
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 9: happened the night before, because as David mentioned earlier, there

545
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 9: was a caretaker was also the sheriff of the property,

546
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 9: Shorty Dow and his wife Charlotte. But Shorty would monitor

547
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 9: everything that was going on, and no matter how hard

548
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 9: I tried, I couldn't get him to call me with

549
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 9: the information.

550
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: He would call Mike and say.

551
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 9: Oh, yeah, the you know, the Scottish geyser, and David

552
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 9: would have his interns and you know, there were a

553
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 9: lot of fun things that happened down there on the beach.

554
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 9: I'm sure I wasn't. I wasn't always invited in those

555
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 9: parties or didn't know about.

556
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 7: Him, Josh, you needed plausible deniability.

557
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 4: And uh sure, you know.

558
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 9: Then I'd get a call the next day from Mike

559
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 9: about something that might have happened on the beach, and

560
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 9: I was supposed to be responsible for this place, but

561
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 9: I think it was It was more fun and nothing

562
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 9: too bad happened, and a lot of a lot of

563
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 9: good came out of it. So some not so good

564
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 9: you guys at one of your oyster clam bakes or

565
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 9: whatever you guys were doing on the beach, Simon drove

566
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 9: the old Blue into the ocean and was surfing on

567
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 9: the hood of this pickup truck, and the pickup truck

568
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 9: went out to see and Simon jumped in the water

569
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 9: and was was okay. He came to the beach and

570
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 9: Shorty had watched this whole thing happen. And I got

571
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 9: a call the next day from Mike Kaiser saying, where

572
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 9: is my pickup truck?

573
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, that wasn't such a good one. That was a

574
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 8: tough one.

575
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 9: I got the call the next day, like you know,

576
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 9: and Mike was probably messing with me, like Josh, you're

577
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 9: supposed to be in charge.

578
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 4: You know what's good? Look what happened on your watch.

579
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 8: Fuck.

580
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 6: One of the mornings, he and Charlotte were driving on

581
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 6: the beach, which they always did, and Charlotte looked out

582
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 6: the window, looking towards the ocean, towards the orient, and said,

583
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 6: isn't Shorty, isn't that Troy's truck? And Troy was our

584
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 6: superintendent and he had a truck. Isn't that Troy's truck

585
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 6: out there in the ocean? And Shorty said, well, well,

586
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 6: my gully, that's a truck. That's Troy's truck out in

587
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 6: the ocean. So Ranther then get angry about destroying perfectly

588
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 6: good property, which I could have gone in that direction.

589
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 6: I decided to lecture David, as follows, David, one of

590
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 6: your people, or if you for all I know, I

591
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 6: don't want to know whose idea was, maybe to remunerate

592
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 6: me for the lost truck. And that's how we left.

593
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 6: We left it as a very funny story. I didn't

594
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 6: lose money, and we'll never know that the specific details

595
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 6: of just who cooked up the Hey, let's drive Troy's

596
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 6: truck into the ocean, let it float away.

597
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 5: Mike's right, We'll never know until now.

598
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 7: The fuller story was that Simon the intern, was the

599
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 7: local high school math teacher down on the beach in

600
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 7: that pickup truck and he got it stuck in the sand,

601
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 7: and then the tide came in and.

602
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 8: All sorts of ship then ensued.

603
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 7: So those where yeah, there was hard charging times back then.

604
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: Was there any adult supervision.

605
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 6: And the golf course there was, And the golf course

606
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 6: I approved every read every the routing.

607
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: So there was oversight there.

608
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 6: And David and I got to know each other and

609
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 6: know what we liked together, networked really.

610
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 5: Well, which brings us to Mike's site visits.

611
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 7: That was probably the hardest part of the whole project

612
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 7: was Mike would fly in pretty regularly, so probably at

613
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 7: least every third week for the seven or eight months

614
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 7: we were in construction, and he would fly in with

615
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 7: a bunch of what he called retail golfers, which I'm

616
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 7: sure Josh had to deal with too. So Mike would

617
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 7: fly in with you know, three, four six of his

618
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 7: golfing buddies who were doctors or lawyers or you know

619
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 7: who knows that this was not their business. They were just,

620
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 7: you know, keen amateur golfers with an opinion, and Mike

621
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 7: would wander around the golf course with me, I mean,

622
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 7: not wonder. It was very focused, and he would want

623
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 7: me to explain what I was doing, what I was

624
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 7: planning to do. He would question me about why things

625
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 7: were the way they were, and his buddies would have

626
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 7: a free for all doing the same thing and telling

627
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 7: Mike what they thought. So they'd be like, no, I

628
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 7: don't think that bunker should be there, I think it

629
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 7: would be better over there, or why don't you move

630
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 7: that hole over here? And Mike, as Josh knows, would

631
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 7: listen to all of this, and it was absolutely infuriated

632
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 7: because I'd be working my butt off with my guys

633
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 7: to try and build something really cool, and these guys

634
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 7: that didn't know Jack would turn up with all of

635
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 7: these thoughts and they'd be in my head, infecting Mike

636
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 7: with all of their myriad of ideas, and I'd be

637
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 7: trying to herd cats and it.

638
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 8: Was really, really tough.

639
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 7: It got to the point one day where one of

640
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 7: Mike's buddies was suggesting some idea that just couldn't work,

641
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 7: wouldn't work and Mike was nodding his head in agreement,

642
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 7: and I was just seething inside. I mean, just wanting

643
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 7: to just scream. And at some point with a few

644
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 7: minutes later or an hour later, I went to Mike

645
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 7: and I said, hey, you know that guy made this

646
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 7: suggestion and you agreed. I'm going to bring the bulldozer

647
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 7: back and and do what it is. I totally disagree

648
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 7: with you, but if that's what you want, then that's

649
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 7: well do. And Mike got pretty stern with me, and

650
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 7: he said, hey, you need to understand. When I'm agreeing

651
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 7: with one of my friends, it means I hear them.

652
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 7: It doesn't mean I'm saying yes unless I tail you

653
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 7: to change something.

654
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 5: More on Mike's visits, from Josh's perspective.

655
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 9: You didn't want to be a naysayer with Mike and

656
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 9: his friends. But his visits to the property, as David said,

657
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 9: extremely focused. I mean, I don't know anybody that takes

658
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 9: their time more seriously than Mike Kaiser. From the minute

659
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 9: he steps on property, he's laser focused on whatever. You

660
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 9: know again, I mean I talked to him on the

661
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 9: phone for twenty years as we were building the whole

662
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 9: place in all the golfer I talked about the phone

663
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 9: every day, and he's equally as precious with his time

664
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 9: on the phone. But on property, whatever it is. If

665
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 9: we're do we need to build more rooms, where are

666
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 9: we going to build them? What are we going to do?

667
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 9: What's the room? You know, And every minute on property

668
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 9: is scheduled, doubt as to what he's going to do.

669
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 9: And then you know, at the end of the day,

670
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 9: dinner and let's talk about dinner and how the food

671
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 9: and beverage works and what's the best, and you know,

672
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 9: by the end of his they were typically two night trips,

673
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 9: so he'd come in on a Tuesday morning, he'd stay

674
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 9: Tuesday Wednesday night, and he'd leave Thursday afternoon. You know,

675
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 9: by Thursday night, I was exhausted, I can tell you that,

676
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 9: and everybody around me was exhausted, because he's his mind

677
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 9: is incredible and you have to be on all the

678
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 9: time and you're getting a lot done when he's around.

679
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 9: And it's been that way since my very first trip

680
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 9: in nineteen ninety seven.

681
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 5: You can't talk about the development abandoned dunes without a

682
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 5: deeper dive on Howard McKee, who died of colon cancer

683
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 5: in two thousand and seven.

684
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 6: He was a very good friend of mine from Chicago.

685
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 6: He had moved to Chicago from Portland and then therefore

686
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 6: knew the coast of Oregon very well. He was the

687
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 6: managing partner of skid Moro Owings and Meryl in Portland

688
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 6: and very well connected.

689
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: With planners, et cetera. And he said, well, if your

690
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: helpent to build a golf course somewhere on the ocean,

691
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: and either the east coast or the west coast, you

692
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: should go take a look at Oregon. We've got a beautiful,

693
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 1: beautiful coastline, which is true. I dubbed it America's links Land.

694
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: It's sixty miles of uninterrupted beautiful sand duns, big enough

695
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: for probably a fifty golf courses.

696
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 7: Howard's a real contribution was getting the permits. Without Howard,

697
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 7: there would be no abandon Duns because he was the

698
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 7: one that went through all of the permitting. And it

699
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 7: was complex. So even though you're in rural Oregon, you're

700
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 7: still dealing with all of the state and federal regulators

701
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 7: to get a resort permitted. And that required a law

702
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 7: of bureaucratic and polar ticking. And I did my base

703
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 7: to help there. But that was all Howard McKee. Without him,

704
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 7: there'd be no Bandon, right, Josh, I.

705
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 4: Agree with that. Howard was a brilliant guy.

706
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 9: That the old saying that you ask him what time

707
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 9: it is and he tells you how to build the watch.

708
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 9: I mean, you ask him what time it is and

709
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 9: he tells you what time means.

710
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 4: I mean he was he was.

711
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 9: Brilliant and he could convince anyone of anything, and so

712
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 9: that was that was a huge part of his contribution.

713
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 9: And then I would call him kind of the project architect,

714
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 9: if you will, after that, I mean he wasn't you know,

715
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 9: David was a golf course architect and we had building architects, but.

716
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 4: Howard kind of oversaw that. And I would have weekly

717
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 4: meetings with Howard, you know, for.

718
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 9: You know, the year and a half before we open,

719
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 9: weekly meetings on kind of how where is the progress,

720
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 9: how's everything going? And really really an interesting, interesting guy

721
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 9: to work with.

722
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 5: The pub on property is named after Howard McKee. There's

723
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 5: a labyrinth in the trees near one of the foot

724
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 5: trails in his honor. But what there isn't at Bandon

725
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 5: Dune's thanks to Howard, is a clubhouse on land best

726
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 5: used for golf.

727
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 6: I knew there were models from Scotland where it was

728
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 6: the clubhouse was on the on the ocean, and when

729
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 6: it wasn't on the ocean, So no model told me

730
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 6: what to do, so I went in sort of blank slate.

731
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 6: And it was the kemper of people who were the

732
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 6: president at the time, not Steve Lesnick, but someone is

733
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 6: no longer with him, who said, you've got to put

734
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 6: the clubhouse out here where currently number sixteen is his

735
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 6: gorgeous site. And one of Howard McKee's great moments was

736
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 6: he was listening to all this and he waited for

737
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 6: a suitable time to go by and watched eli Us

738
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 6: say yeah with the clubhouse right here in the best place,

739
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 6: and Howard said, where are the beer trucks going to go?

740
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 6: And there is silence when everyone realized that in order

741
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 6: to get to this club a great clubhouse site on

742
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,479
Speaker 6: the ocean, we needed a road from way back five

743
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 6: six hundred yards inland. We start this long road with

744
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 6: cars to park and beer trucks and ups delivery. And

745
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 6: it went from what a great idea to put the

746
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 6: clubhouse out here in this photogenetic site to what a

747
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 6: stupid idea. You know, want beer trucks on this great site,

748
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 6: Let's make it a golf hole. And one of the

749
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 6: most photographed pole at the resort still to this day

750
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 6: is that number sixteen A short part.

751
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 5: For so there's damn good golf. The clubhouse is inland

752
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 5: where it's supposed to be. Word has obviously gotten out

753
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 5: and around town that the course is about to open.

754
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 5: Meet Mick Peters of Mixed hair Surgeons. Peters isn't a

755
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 5: great player, but he's avid and he's been barbering in

756
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 5: Bandon for fifty four years.

757
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: And in the shop we said, oh yeah, they're gonna

758
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: be a world class golf course in band and who's

759
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: going to come to Bandon to play golf?

760
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 8: That was that was the talk right off the bat.

761
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 5: Bob Gaspar now known as Shoe because he looks like

762
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 5: the jockey Bill Shoemaker, lived in Bandon and was one

763
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 5: of Mixed clients.

764
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 3: As the story went on, Shoe came in and he

765
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 3: was getting a haircut. He said, I'm going to go out.

766
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 3: They're looking for a caddy master. He said, I'm going

767
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 3: to go out and apply for that. I said, cool,

768
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 3: So he did and of course, as the shoe story

769
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 3: went on again, he got it and he was in

770
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 3: my shop again. I've got this here, and he says, man,

771
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 3: that first day is a really filling up. I said, wow,

772
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 3: I said, is the first he taken yet? He said,

773
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I'm going back out there and

774
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 3: i'll check and i'll call you. So he did, and

775
00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 3: he called me.

776
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 8: He said, no, it's open.

777
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: I said.

778
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 3: He said you want it? I said yes, and he

779
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 3: said you'll have to have a board him. I said,

780
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 3: that's cool.

781
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 8: I can do that.

782
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 5: KUIs of reflects on the build up to the first

783
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 5: tea time.

784
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 6: The entire time leading up to opening day was an

785
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 6: equally low point of you know, what are you doing here?

786
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 1: Everyone who's everyone who saw it said what a dumb

787
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: i'd be.

788
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 6: You know, golf guys now, golf guys, bankers, business men,

789
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 6: family friends, all meaning well for me, which was pulled

790
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 6: the plot, don't do this. It's a terrible idea. So

791
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 6: I lived with that for the two and a half years,

792
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 6: and it took to build it. And I'd say the

793
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 6: crescendo was the night before opening day at Van and

794
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 6: Dune said nineteen ninety nine, I was having dinner with

795
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 6: Josh and Steve Lesnik and Howard McKee, and it was raining,

796
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 6: and it was supposed to rain the next day, and

797
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 6: I knew we had a pretty good t sheet the

798
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 6: next day. But to take the negative side of it,

799
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 6: we whine about the weather is going to be bad

800
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 6: and all of our all the people who were thinking

801
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 6: about coming, will come and we'll have an empty golf course.

802
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 5: What was us so on Sunday, May second, nineteen ninety nine,

803
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 5: the first to the first t the Mick Peters forsom.

804
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: You know, looking back on it, it was special at

805
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: the time, but we didn't know exactly how special it

806
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: was going to be. It was just getting to go

807
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 3: play golf and be the first one on a fantastic course.

808
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: It was just it was bigger than I expect that.

809
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 3: I didn't think there would be that many people there watching,

810
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: and I was so nervous I couldn't already put the

811
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 3: ball on the tee.

812
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 5: Which is where we're going to hit pause on the

813
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 5: building of Bandon. Part two will go live next Sunday.

814
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 5: We'll pick up where we're leaving off, find out how

815
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 5: Mick Peters played, how the course was received, and we'll

816
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 5: get a better sense of what Bandon meant to the

817
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 5: future of golf in Oregon and in America in general.

818
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 5: But before that, a few reflections from our main characters.

819
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 5: As Kaiser said at the start, Pine Valley Dunes Club

820
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 5: and sand Hills were his inspiration for Bandon Dunes, but

821
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 5: they're all private. I asked him if there was ever

822
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 5: a chance Bandon wouldn't have been open to the public.

823
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 6: I had decided that I was a populist as related

824
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 6: red to golf. I loved playing Pine Valley, I loved

825
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 6: playing Marion, but I appreciated more Pebble Beach and Pinehurst

826
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 6: because they were equally great in.

827
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: Public and in Scotland, where my models were.

828
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 6: Even though most of the courses have a private membership,

829
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 6: they allow man Chanella and Mike Guiser go.

830
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: Over and be tourists and made them full of green speed.

831
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: So that was really my model, the Scottish.

832
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 5: Model Josh lesnik On when he realized he was part

833
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 5: of something special.

834
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 9: And it was, you know, that first day and I'd

835
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 9: met David and when we got to where sixteen green

836
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 9: and seventeen t would become for me.

837
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 4: When I saw that, I was like this is different.

838
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 9: But no one really realizes now as you look back,

839
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 9: just how risky this all seemed, how crazy it all seemed.

840
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 9: It was so unconventional, you know, to stress what David

841
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 9: was saying, golf courses were being built close.

842
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 4: To people, you know, close to cities.

843
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 9: People didn't necessarily care about the site for golf. You

844
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 9: could have mud and clay and rock under the soil,

845
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 9: but if we were close to people and you could

846
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 9: put houses around it. That's the kind of golf courses

847
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 9: people were building in the nineties, eighties, nineties in America.

848
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 4: This was close to nobody.

849
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 9: This is going back to the golden age when you

850
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 9: look for the best site for golf and you know,

851
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 9: no bank would finance it. No, no, everybody thought it

852
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 9: was crazy. Mike's friends thought it was crazy. Mike thought

853
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 9: it was crazy.

854
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 7: I don't think Bandon Dunes is near as unique as

855
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 7: you guys think it is.

856
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 8: Bandon Dunes.

857
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 7: If it were in the British Isles, it would be

858
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 7: one of dozens of really good links courses, but it

859
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 7: would not be unique. It's only unique here where there

860
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 7: is nothing else like it.

861
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: Put another log on five.

862
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 4: Nobody here is getting tired.

863
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 5: Are you looking for good value on great golf apparel?

864
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 5: As a listener to this podcast, my friends John Ashworth

865
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 5: and Jeff Cunningham at link Seoul in Oceanside, California are

866
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 5: offering you a twenty five percent discount on all future

867
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,480
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868
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 5: and off the course. Whenever you go to linksoul dot com,

869
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 5: just use promo code matty G twenty five m A

870
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 5: t t y G twenty five. Thank you for listening

871
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 5: to The Firepit. It's produced by Alex Upeggi. It's edited

872
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 5: by Rex Lint. The theme song is by Joe Horowitz.

873
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 5: Please rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts and

874
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 5: we might track you down and send you one of

875
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 5: our new Imperial Roe Pats. Got a question, comment, or

876
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 5: a story for us to track down, you can find

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Speaker 5: me on Twitter at Matt Janella or on Instagram at

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Speaker 5: Matt Underscore Janella. And if you haven't already done so,

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Speaker 5: please subscribe to The Firepit on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or

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Speaker 5: wherever you listen to a story like this one. You

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Speaker 5: can also subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is where

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Speaker 5: we post portions of our podcast and add some visual surprises.