1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A high school baseball star 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: brutally brutally attacks multiple high school girls, leaving them bleeding, 3 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: and he walks free with counseling. He was looking at 4 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: seventy eight years behind bars over seven decades, and he 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: gets counseling and community service. I call that sketchy as hell. 6 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: I'mancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank 7 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: you for being with us. 8 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: Jesse Butler, a promisey baseball star from Oklahoma with a 9 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: supportive family, faces a grim future after his girlfriend accuses 10 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: him of the unthinkable. 11 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: Okay, right there, I don't like that. I don't like 12 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: that because it says his girlfriend accused. B s technical 13 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: legal term. It's not his girlfriend accused to Page Taylor, 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: joining US investigator reporter Fox twenty five News, page, let 15 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: me correct that he pled. He pled guilty, of course, 16 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: it justge Let him do a nolo contendery. I don't 17 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: say you're right or you're wrong, but that's the equivalent 18 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: of a guilty plea a no lo. He played guilty. 19 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: It's not that girlfriend accuses. It's way past that he 20 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: has pled and been sentenced. 21 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 3: Right, yes, he has, and he did initially plead not guilty, 22 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 3: and then he was offered this plea deal by the 23 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 3: DA to his attorney, and that is when he pled 24 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 3: no contest. And then he was given youth bull offender status. 25 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: Okay to Randy Casseler joining us, a veteran trial lawyer 26 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: out of Atlanta and we law school professor, former chair 27 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: of the American Bar Association Family Laws section all of divorce, 28 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: Protect yourself, your kids, in your future. I could go 29 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: on and on and on about Kessler, but let me 30 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: just say when I would see Kessler coming down the 31 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: hall at the courthouse at me with a file in 32 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: his hand, I would say, no, don't even start, and 33 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: somehow he would talk all the prosecutors into sweetheart deals. Kessler, 34 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: just take off your defense hat for one moment, just 35 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: one moment. Isn't it true that in no loo contendery, 36 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: I do not contest in the law and the eyes 37 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: of the law is a guilty plea. 38 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 4: Okay, But it's not exactly guilty plean Nancy, or else 39 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 4: you wouldn't have a difference, You wouldn't have the option 40 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 4: of a NOLA contender. He can say for the rest 41 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 4: of his life he did not contest the facts. That's 42 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 4: a better statement for his future than to say I 43 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 4: pled guilty. There's a reason we allow them to do that. 44 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: There is a difference, Grandy Kessler the eyes of the law. 45 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: You're right, what just try to spit it out good. 46 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 4: You always win, Nancy, and you know you're going to 47 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 4: win this one because it's a rhetorical question. 48 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 5: Yes, Nola contendrius and consequences. 49 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 4: But he still can say to future employer's family friends, 50 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 4: he played nolo contenderary, look at. 51 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: Him, baseball star. How much did his father's involvement in 52 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: baseball and his own affect the judge's decision? Isn't a 53 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: true page Taylor that he and his family are deeply 54 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: tied to still Water and Oklahoma State University. The father, 55 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: Matt Butler, was the Cowboys football director for sixteen years. 56 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: Isn't that tally sixteen years the Cowboys football director? Yes, 57 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: that is correct. So now we've managed to remember Kessler. 58 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. I'm not a dds a dentist. 59 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: I don't know how to pull teeth, but I can 60 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: get a set of pliers and try if I have to. So, Kessler, 61 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: could you ever imagine ever imagine a cold day in 62 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: hel that I would allow two young girl high school 63 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: sex assault victims sit there and let me and hear 64 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: me agree to a plea where this guy, after multiple attacks, bloody, 65 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: bloody sex attacks, let that sink in. Let them hear 66 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,799 Speaker 1: me accept the plea where he gets no jail time 67 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: and he gets counseling and walks free on a no 68 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: lo over my cold dead body. Kessler, not in. 69 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 4: A million years would you allow that he would have 70 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 4: been lucky to get away with eighty seven years in 71 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 4: jail if you were the prosecutor. 72 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: I mean, Kessler, think about it. Think about your own children. 73 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: And I know in closing arguments, we prosecutors and defense 74 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: lawyers as well are not allowed to accid jury, to 75 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: put themselves in the shoes of the victim or the defendant. Right, 76 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: but we're not look around, we're not in court. You 77 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: have children. If your child came home and said he 78 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: sex attacked me, I was bleeding, I begged him to stop, 79 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: and he said no. You don't think these parents shouldn't 80 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: be laying on the courthouse steps screaming. 81 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 4: You know there'd be a different trial, right, I'd be 82 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 4: the one on trial in that case, right, Nancy. We 83 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 4: all know what would happen if that was a situation, 84 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 4: but we don't know all the facts, and there's got 85 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 4: to be some reason. I'm just searching my brain for 86 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 4: why would they have allowed this kind of video, Why 87 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 4: would they let them stay as a juvenile unless they 88 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 4: didn't think they had an absolute, rock solid case there 89 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 4: would guarantee a victory. There has to be some loophole 90 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 4: or some technicality, some deficiency in their case. 91 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: Because I agree, it has to be that you haven't 92 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: found it, have you. 93 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 5: Well I haven't, and I don't. 94 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: I'm not pretty found I haven't either. You guys, when 95 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 1: you say an air tight case, a lock on the case, 96 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: is there ever a lock on a case? I mean, 97 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: look at top mom Casey Anthony should have been a lot, right, 98 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: not guilty. Look at a J. Simpson should have been 99 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: a lot double murder, not guilty. It happens the time. 100 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: There's never a lock on a case. Ever. I don't 101 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: care how strong the prosecutor thinks the evidence is. There's 102 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: never a lot. Randy, No, but. 103 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 4: This is probably the first time you've ever agreed with 104 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 4: me and taking my side in some way that you're 105 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 4: right there's not a guaranteed lock. 106 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 5: So what is the deficiency in this case? You know those. 107 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 4: Folks they got a complete acquittal that you definitely don't 108 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 4: want to risk a complete acquittal. And if you're worried 109 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 4: as a prosecutor that you might not win, you take 110 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 4: what you can get. But you know, I know you're 111 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 4: not agreeing with you, but you're tell me that there 112 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 4: is a possibility. 113 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 5: We don't know what the possibility was, because. 114 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: We're telling you, Randy, that there is never a lock, 115 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: and you have to have the backbone to roll the dice, 116 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: get ready and go to trial even if you think 117 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: you might lose. I mean, look at Coburger. For Pete's sake, 118 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: that case should have gone to trial and there should 119 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: be a DP. It's being scheduled right now. Brian Coberger 120 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: should be on death row, where he would sit for 121 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: the next twenty five years and probably get some kind 122 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: of weird reversal. But it's the point of doing the 123 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: right thing, and this is the you know what, this 124 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: is the wrong thing. Let's just start it at the beginning. 125 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 4: Listen, Well, why don't we have you why don't we 126 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 4: not just prosecute everybody as an adult. There's got to 127 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 4: be some basis for decision making. Right, this child was 128 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 4: a child when he did this, and he's got a 129 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 4: right to be tried as a juvenile, and that's what 130 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 4: they've decided to do. 131 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 5: Otherwise, it was seventeen right, Okay, Well, if. 132 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 4: The law says seventeen year olds get tried as an adult, 133 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 4: he should have been tried as an adult. 134 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 5: That is that what the law says. 135 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 4: No, if the law gives a discretion and they chose 136 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 4: the discretion to say, we're going to follow the law 137 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 4: and try it as a. 138 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: Juvenile, Randy, let's discuss the actual law, not the law 139 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: in Randyland. The law is that there in most jurisdiction 140 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: are seven deadly sins for which a juvenile will have 141 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: a bind over hearing and most likely get treated as 142 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: an adult. That said, rape is a seven deadly which 143 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: means there's a very very rubber stamped hearing. There is 144 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: a hearing, but after the hearing the case will be 145 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: sent to superior court. Are you telling me you never 146 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: had a case with a seventeen year old that was 147 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: tried as an adult. 148 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 5: Certainly there are. 149 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 4: Cases, but again, this is a different case. This is 150 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 4: a victim knew that the defendant. This is a you 151 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 4: know's an allegation that there was a relationship. Oh no, 152 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 4: I'm not true. 153 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that. Wait wait wait, wait, 154 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, wait wait wait wait you think 155 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: I'm going to pretend that didn't just come out of 156 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: your mouth. Shannon Henry joining me, President founder of SAS 157 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: SASS Surviving Assault Standing Strong. It is a non profit 158 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: on a mission to help women victims of sex attacks. 159 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: Did you just hear what Kesser said and believe you me? 160 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: It might work in front of a jury. He said, uh, 161 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: she was his girlfriend. Okay, number one, there's not just one. 162 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: There's two victims that we know of who say startlingly 163 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: similar stories about being sex assaulted and beaten strangled to 164 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: one had to have surgery on her neck and her 165 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: face drooped after the strangulation. And not only that, he 166 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: videoed the attack and the police found the video. The 167 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: state has the video of the girl unconscious being strangled 168 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: and then sex assaulted. Shannon, did you hear that? Randy 169 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: Kester says, oh, well, it was his girlfriend, like means 170 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: it didn't happen. 171 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 6: Shannon, yep, So now, Evidently, according to Randy, we're going 172 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 6: to start excusing relationship violence and relationship with sexual assaults, 173 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 6: and that would include the ones like this one, when 174 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 6: clearly her body was shutting down. She urinated on herself 175 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 6: as he strangled her. That is the body shutting down 176 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,599 Speaker 6: because it can't do everything it needs to do. 177 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: I want to say, Kessler, as you're describing that, pick 178 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: it up right there, please, Shannon. 179 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 6: She urinated on herself, and so that tells us that 180 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 6: the body is shutting down. 181 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 7: So this isn't you know? 182 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: This is the perfect case. 183 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 6: We have the I know there's no perfect case, but 184 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 6: we have video evidence. Typically, as he said, she said, 185 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 6: this is not We have the evidence physically, psychologically, we've 186 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 6: got the medical evidence. We know that this was attempted murder. 187 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 6: This was kidnapping, it was rape, it was sodomy. It 188 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 6: was everything it could be. And it does not matter 189 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 6: if she was in a relationship with him or he 190 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 6: was a stranger. He is at fall. 191 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 7: He should be sentenced accordingly. 192 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: You know, Shannon, I know you must feel this sometimes, 193 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: do you. Shannon is the president and founder of Surviving 194 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: Assault Standing Strong. I was just thinking about my little daughter, 195 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: Lucy she's about this big. She's just beautiful on the 196 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: inside and the outside. And sometimes I just feel like 197 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: going in lane on the railroad track and wait for 198 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: a train to come in. I mean, there is a 199 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: video the little high school girl with her pants. She 200 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: went unconscious. At one point she was bleeding from her genitals, 201 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: and there's a video. The guy sets up a video 202 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: he wants to replay watching himself strangling her out. The 203 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: one victim and there's two that we know of, had 204 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: to have surgery on her throat. Her face was drooping 205 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: on one side after because the strangulation was so severe. 206 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: Page Taylor joining US investigative reporter Fox twenty five. Tell 207 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: me about the surgery the one little girl had to have. 208 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so after she was strangled, she had a 209 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 3: lot of pain in her neck, there was swelling and 210 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: so you know, she did have to undergo surgery. 211 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: And now she has a scar. 212 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: So not only you know, does she have mental scars, 213 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: but now she has a physical one. 214 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: Rachel Countryman also joining us. You know her well, forensic 215 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:46,239 Speaker 1: nurse expert, founder of Countrymen Consulting. She provides expert testimony 216 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: in case consultation all across the country. On sex assault, strangulation, 217 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: partner violence at Countrymen Consulting Services dot Com. And there's 218 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: a reason she has her own consulting business. She has 219 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: been on the front lines as a rape nurse, Rachel. 220 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: When you hear the victim was totally unconscious and urinated 221 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: in her clothes, urinated during the attack. She had no 222 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: control over her bodily functions at all. We know that 223 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: in at least one instance there was gentle bleeding. How 224 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: can a judge judge what's her name, Susan Worthington, right page, correct, 225 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: that's correct, Judge, Susan Worthington. I don't understand, Rachel. How yeah, 226 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: there you go. 227 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 8: How could she turn the other way and give this 228 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 8: guy community service and counseling. And there's not just one victim, Rachel, 229 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 8: What would you be looking for? And what do you 230 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 8: think of the as we know them? I'm getting them straight. 231 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: Out of the arrest. Warn't Epidavid, nobody's making any of 232 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: this up. 233 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 5: Yeah. 234 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 9: So the symptoms are, you know, quite astounding. A lot 235 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 9: of times when we have patients present, we don't see 236 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 9: any symptoms. 237 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 7: And so the. 238 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 9: Fact that you know she urinated on herself, loss of consciousness. 239 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 9: As you know, even Susan mentioned this is the body 240 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 9: shutting down. The body is not getting oxygen, the tissues 241 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 9: in the body are getting oxygen, and she is very 242 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 9: close to losing her life. 243 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: What happened and why did the judge agree to this? 244 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: And even more interesting, why did the prosecutor even put 245 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: it up? 246 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 10: Listen, a serial rapist who strangles his girlfriends for a laugh, 247 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 10: serving no jail time on eleven charges, securing a sweetheart 248 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 10: deal classifying him as a youthful offender, the now eighteen 249 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 10: year old's treatment plan, counseling, community service, and curfews. 250 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 11: Testing Judge Susan Worthington and demanding her immediate resignation. We 251 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 11: are protesting the Payne County District Attorney's office and demanding 252 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 11: the immediate resignation of the eighty a's who made this deal. 253 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 12: If they don't set you on fire, you would we 254 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 12: You know what I mean? You got a bad you 255 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 12: know that sets me on fire. That looks like favoritism 256 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 12: all day long for me, That from. 257 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: Our friends at kfo R. And that was Representative J. J. Humphrey. 258 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with him more. Many people are asking 259 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: why Judge Susan Worthington, and don't worry, I'm going to 260 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: get about three inches of the prosecutor's tailpipe as well. 261 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: Why she would go along with this plea? How could 262 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: she even look at herself in the mirror? Well, we 263 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: have an idea. Listen. 264 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 13: Jesse mac Butler, a star baseball player for the Stillwater 265 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 13: High Pioneers, already getting offers to play at NCAA colleges. 266 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 13: Jesse's fan deeply tied to Stillwater and Oklahoma State University. 267 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 13: Father Mac Butler served as the Cowboys football director for 268 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 13: sixteen years, and now his wife and daughter also work 269 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 13: for Oklahoma State's football program. 270 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: Still Water outraged by Butler's like sentence, many speculating Mac 271 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: Butler's deep connection to OSU is the reason behind his 272 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: son's ridiculous sentence. Protesters calling for District Attorney Laura Thomas 273 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 2: is firing. 274 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 14: I'm not slowing down, and you know, I have a 275 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 14: fifteen year old and he said that you need to 276 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 14: do something. So they have a position that came open 277 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 14: at still Water schools, and I said. 278 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to be the head guy. I don't 279 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: want any of that. 280 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 14: You know, if I can help. 281 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: I want to help straight back out to page tailor 282 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: investigator Reporter Fox twenty five at news Page. I want 283 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,479 Speaker 1: to hear about the father's deep involvement in the community 284 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: and the sports programs. 285 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 3: Yes, so that family does have deep to still water 286 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: to OSU. Like you mentioned, he did work for OSU 287 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 3: for many years with the football program, and I think 288 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 3: it's important to know. You know, football is so important 289 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 3: in those college towns and really harries a lot of 290 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 3: weight and meaning. You know, he's also worked at some 291 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 3: other universities and high schools around the state of Oklahoma. 292 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: Guys, it seemingly gets so much worse. But to Randy 293 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: Kessler joining US Atlanta trial lawyer, allegedly lawyer to the celebs, Randy, 294 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: it matters. It shouldn't matter. But I've seen it happen 295 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: in court where an influential family comes into court, typically 296 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: with their son. Occasionally their daughter has a felony, but 297 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: usually the sun and they all have on their Sunday 298 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: best and they all stand up behind the podium and 299 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: they cry and they write letters, and they get really 300 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: influential people like mayors and the heads of football programs 301 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: at colleges to write on behalf of the defendant, and 302 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: I don't like it, but it matters not to me. 303 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: To me, that makes it worse. That means that that 304 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: defendant had every opportunity, every advantage given the world on 305 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: a silver platter on top of the Christmas tree, and 306 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: still committed a felony, as opposed to some people who 307 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: everybody in their family's gone to jail. They've all committed felonies. 308 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: It's a way of life. They don't understand, Hey, this 309 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: is wrong. This guy had it all and it makes 310 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: a difference, I guess, to the judge and the prosecutor 311 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: in this case, what matters to me or what these 312 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: two little girls say. 313 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 5: I agree with you, Nis, and I want to make 314 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 5: it clear to you and all you guess. I think 315 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 5: this convict was despicable, and I'm not defending the conduct. 316 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 4: I'm trying to find reasons because I wasn't there as 317 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 4: to why they might have cut this deal or why 318 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 4: they might have not charged him. That's all I'm trying 319 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 4: to do is to splaind it And I think you might 320 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 4: be right. I don't know this judge, I don't know 321 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 4: this prosecutor, but we're all searching for either the facts 322 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 4: weren't there or the evidence wasn't there, and it sounds 323 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 4: like it was there, So what else is there? 324 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 5: And I think you're looking in the right direction. Maybe 325 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 5: there was something on toward going on, And I agree 326 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 5: with you. 327 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 4: I don't have damous people write letters thinking that's going 328 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 4: to impress the judge. If I was a judge, I'd say, oh, 329 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 4: you think your hot stuff and you're going to pull 330 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 4: your cloud and affect me. I think most judges, most 331 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 4: good judges, would see it exactly the way you suggest 332 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 4: that they should see it, which is it doesn't matter. 333 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 4: In fact, it makes it worse if you think that's 334 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 4: going to help. What matters is the conduct. What matters 335 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 4: is the evidence, and what matters to the prosecution is 336 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 4: can they prove and can they win their case? If 337 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 4: they can proven win their case, then they should push 338 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 4: it as far as they can. If they're not sure, 339 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 4: then they compromise. And I've not been in the room, 340 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 4: and I wasn't there, and I'm hearing more and more 341 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 4: even on the show, and it's still making me a question. 342 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: Why, Randy Casser, You're not worried, are you that somebody's 343 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: going to go on X or Facebook and go, oh, 344 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: I'm mad at Randy Casseler because he took up for 345 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: the defendant. You actually care what somebody says about you? 346 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 347 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 5: I care what people say. 348 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: Business. If you do so what I'm in, I've got 349 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: fixed in the wrong business. If you care what everybody 350 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: else says, it doesn't matter what they say. It matters 351 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: that you do the right thing. And as a defense attorney, 352 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: it's your job, as much as I don't like it, 353 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: to find holes in every case and exploit them. We 354 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: have the adversarial system. We're adversaries. We collide in court 355 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: and we fight it out, and we test each other's 356 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: evidence through cross examination and the rules of evidence. You 357 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: know how many defense attorneys I've made mad because I 358 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: would fight their exhibits, fight their witnesses any way I could, 359 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: because I want it speaks the truth. Your job to 360 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: try to stop. 361 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 4: Me, and that's what I do, mich You know what, 362 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 4: and try doing divorce once in a while too. When 363 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 4: we do some of that, then you've got people that 364 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 4: are really angry at each other. 365 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 5: It's not just the state, it's an individual. 366 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 4: So certainly we do our job and certainly there's times 367 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 4: when we have to say, you know what, it's just 368 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 4: an all out of fight. But if we can find 369 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 4: a way to solve the problem without having a trial, 370 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 4: criminal or civil, that's what we always try to do. 371 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 4: Why risk the extreme punishment, Why risk the eighty seven years? 372 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 4: Why risk the worst thing in judges jury can do 373 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 4: if you can find it, And that's what I got to. 374 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: Do something, Randy. I don't think you ever saw me 375 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: like this, because I would usually go and get in 376 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: my car when I would be so upset at how 377 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: a case was turning out. But this case is so wrong. 378 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: I know of two high school girl victims separated in 379 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: time and space, that give the same story about this guy. 380 00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: It's on video. He videoed it. The girl had to 381 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: have surgery. He strangled her so badly, and he walked free. 382 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: With counseling doctor Cheryl Eric joining us out of Beverly 383 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: Hills clinical forensics psychologists specializing in trauma recovery. You can 384 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: find her at askdoctor Cheryl dot com. Cheryl, I'm having flashbacks. 385 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: I guess is PTSD from the Seawan Combs verdict where 386 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: Cassie Ventura was beaten horribly brutally like these girls were 387 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: beaten and strangled till they urinated on themselves on video 388 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: and the jury excused it. And it's just like the 389 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: same thing all over again with a baseball high school star. 390 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 15: That's right, there's evidence, there's video evidence. We can see it, 391 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 15: and we can see when somebody is powerful or influential, 392 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 15: we can see courts making a decision that the young 393 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 15: man's life is more important than the lives of the 394 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 15: two young women that he is destroying. And the thing 395 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 15: is that this isn't just about favor this is also 396 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 15: these are very very dangerous crimes, and they are crimes 397 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 15: with very very high risk of reoffending. He doesn't show remorse. 398 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 15: He the family doesn't show a sense of consequences about this. 399 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 15: They're saying to him, Oh, don't worry, we're going to 400 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 15: get you out soon, you know, when he gets arrested. 401 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: And as we've. 402 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 15: Talked about, strangulation puts the victim at risk of seven 403 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 15: hundred and fifty percent more likely to be murdered by 404 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 15: the person who strangled her during an attack. We don't 405 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 15: see remorse, We see sadism, We see him being proud 406 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 15: of what he's doing. And recording, and he sort of does, oh, 407 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 15: I'm sorry for one of them, about to do with 408 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 15: one of the victims, but doesn't not hurt her. He 409 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 15: is not moved by this pain. And the real risk 410 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 15: here is that these types of crimes run a very 411 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 15: very high risk of not only reoffending, but of murder, 412 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 15: of murdering future victims, and whatever favor has happened here, 413 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 15: if a future victim is murdered, I really think that 414 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 15: the blood is on the hands of the judge in 415 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 15: this case. 416 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: Talking about flashbacks from the Shanghams trial, Remember. 417 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 13: This Butler appears to be a typical all American teenager, 418 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 13: but his ex girlfriends say he's extremely violent. 419 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: Just a few weeks into the fall semester, two Stillwater 420 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 2: High students seek out their school resource officers, scared of 421 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: their shared ex boyfriend, alleging he attacks them numerous tis 422 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 2: throughout back to back relationships. The victims are still attending 423 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 2: class with their attacker, now eighteen year old Jesse Butler. 424 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: It gets so much worse when you read the affidavits, 425 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: the sworn testimony about what these victims said. I want 426 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: you to hear it. 427 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 10: Butler tries to rape ls for the first time outside 428 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 10: of a marble slab. On what was supposed to be 429 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 10: an ice cream date. Butler pins Ls down in his car, 430 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 10: removes her clothes, then touches her breast and vagina while 431 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 10: she tells him to stop through tears. Butler says he's 432 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 10: sorry for what he's about to do, but he has 433 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 10: to do it. Before the rape, a woman approaches Butler's 434 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 10: car and says she's calling police. Butler drives Ls back 435 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 10: to her own car, but gets in with her, still 436 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 10: trying to initiate intercourse until Ls finally convinces him to 437 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 10: get out. 438 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: Well, needless to say, it didn't end there. But back 439 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: to you, Kessler, an ice cream date, don't you have daughters? 440 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's irrelevant. I mean it's not right, right, What 441 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 5: do you want to say to that? 442 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: It's relevant? So I'll take that as a yes. Uh, 443 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: an ice cream date? You know? The other night, Lucy 444 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: and her little friend boy went out for frozen yogurt. 445 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: That sounds pretty innocent, doesn't it. A woman in the 446 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: parking lot had to come over and get him off 447 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: of her and threatened to call police. Think about it. 448 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: If he will do that in a public park in 449 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: front of marble slab cream andy. For Pete's sake, what 450 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: will he do on an isolated road or when he 451 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: has the girl in private, if he will be that bold, 452 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: that horrible chin parking lot. 453 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 5: So chromin. What do you want me to say to that, Nancy? Stupid? 454 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 4: Any thank goodness you did it like that, so that 455 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 4: he got caught in that he got and there was 456 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 4: a witness, and there's someone that came out there right, 457 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 4: thank goodness, because they are smarter criminals that are worse. 458 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 5: Right, this is not this is not a nice guy. 459 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: Okay, I like that. I like that. I like that 460 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: when you argue there are people worse? Okay, what am 461 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: I supposed to do with that? There are people worse 462 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: than him, worse as. 463 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 4: Far as intelligence, Nancy, not as far as what he did. 464 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 4: The people there are people to do worse things, are 465 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 4: people to do less worse things. You can't classify that, 466 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 4: you can't rape that. This is down there, right, This 467 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 4: is something nobody wants to be a part of, nobody wants. 468 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: I don't have a problem ranking it. I would say 469 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: it's not as bad as murdering her, but it's a 470 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: whole lot worse and shoplifting, right, Yeah, I can totally 471 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: rank it. That's why we call it one of the 472 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: seven deadly sins for which you will be tried as 473 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: an adult. Okay, not convinced yet, Casler listen to this. 474 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 13: Butler tries to rape Ls again, this time at his 475 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 13: home while his mother is there. Ls cries and says no, 476 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 13: while Butler straddles are on the couch but is removing 477 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 13: his own underwear when his mom knocks on the door 478 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 13: and asks if everything's okay. Butler then drives Ls home, 479 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 13: but park streets away, refusing to drop her off until 480 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 13: she does what he wants. Butler gropes Ls and moves 481 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 13: her hand over his groin. This goes on for hours. 482 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 13: Ls afraid to try to leave, Butler only gives up 483 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 13: when his sister texts he needs to come home. 484 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 16: To Jesse's parents. I don't know what you knew. I 485 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 16: don't know if you heard me crying through the walls 486 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 16: or noticed how your son treated me when no one 487 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 16: was looking. But I hope you hear me now. Your 488 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 16: son hurt me in ways that cannot be undone, and 489 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 16: I need you to understand that your silence, your protection 490 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 16: of him or even your denial would hurt too, because 491 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 16: someone should have stopped this, Someone should have seen the 492 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 16: bruises in the fear. 493 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: Did the parents know apparently, yes, you heard that. The 494 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: mother comes to the door and goes everything okay, in there, 495 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: it's her home, her home where this is happening. How 496 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: could she not know? Well, let's take a look at mommy, 497 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: come arrest. 498 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 7: We're going to obviously tell our story too. Yeah, yes, 499 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 7: it's mom. Open the door, it's me. And if you'll 500 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 7: just have him step out and give me your wallet 501 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 7: and phone and stuff. 502 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 17: So you're what, well, okay, it's not long tering thing 503 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 17: as in, okay, so can you tell him what you 504 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 17: just fell me? 505 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: Or yeah, so we're here. 506 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 18: We're obviously going to place you under arrest. There's a 507 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 18: for your arrest. We're going to take you to the jail. 508 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 18: I told your mom that she can contact a bondsman 509 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 18: and you shouldn't be. 510 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: Very there very long. 511 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 18: But there just is a process for paperwork and stuff. 512 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 18: But right now you do have to come with us, 513 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 18: and I do have to put you in a handcuffs, 514 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 18: So turn around for metransport something. 515 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 7: I'll get you out right, all right, Stay silent, Ruthe 516 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 7: knows about this. Can you dance on his way? We're 517 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 7: coming to Okay, stay strong, Okay, say your prayers still. 518 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 5: Want Okay that way? They don't think you went tell me. 519 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 7: So horrible, awful experience. 520 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 5: For the child? 521 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: Did I just hear mommy say this is an awful 522 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: experience for a child? Is she talking about that hulk 523 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: walking along in handcuffs? And did you notice doctor Cheryl Erritt, 524 00:30:53,440 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: Mommy wasn't surprised at all. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, 525 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it reminds me of doctor Cheryl. 526 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen cops okay where they're playing bad boy, 527 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: Bad Boy and they run through a house to make 528 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: an arrest, and there's a guy sitting there drinking a 529 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: beer in a lazy and a lazy boy watching TV. 530 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: He just cop watches the cops run through like it's 531 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: just another day at home, not surprised at all that 532 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: the swat team is running across his living room. He 533 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: just keeps watching TV. The mom shows no emotion at all. 534 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: She's not surprised her son is charged with brutal attacks 535 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: on two high school girls. For Pete's sake, that's right. 536 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 15: There is no level of shock that you're seeing register 537 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 15: for her about the gravity of the things that he 538 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 15: is charged with. She immediately goes into babying him and 539 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 15: trying to make sure that he knows that they're going 540 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 15: to pull all the strings they can and he's gonna 541 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 15: be okay. And her empathy and her compassion seems to 542 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 15: be about rescuing him from the consequences of the crimes 543 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 15: he's just been accused of, and with evidence with these 544 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 15: young girls, these high school girls who they know. Stillwater 545 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 15: is not a big community. I mean, these girls were 546 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 15: one of them we know was in her home and 547 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 15: she was worried enough that something didn't sound right to 548 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 15: knock on the door. But there is a sort of 549 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 15: an act of not knowing, a denial that is not 550 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 15: just a river in Egypt that we see in households 551 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 15: where there is a violence, where people kind of take 552 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 15: the convenient way out sometimes and pretend that they don't 553 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 15: see the glaring red flags that they need to see. 554 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 15: And this is one of the reasons I'm so concerned 555 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 15: about this young man reoffending. 556 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: To Rachel Countryman joining US forensic nurse expert at Countrymen Consulting. 557 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: She is an expert witness an advisor on sex assault 558 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: strangulation cases all across the country. Rachel. Earlier, you said 559 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: that sometimes in rape victims you don't see a physical manifestation. 560 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: In this case, you've got a high school girl bleeding 561 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: from her genitals and you have a strangulation so severe 562 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: that she has to have throat surgery and is left 563 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: with permanent scars. Her face is drooping on one side. 564 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: Wouldn't that qualify as proof forensic physical evidence that the 565 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: sex attacks occurred? 566 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean for sure, that definitely that physical evidence 567 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 9: that we don't always see. And you know, I further 568 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 9: think about the brain injury that these girls maybe have 569 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 9: occurred from the lack of oxygen during these strangulation attempts 570 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 9: multiple and multiple times. And you know, as we know, 571 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 9: traumatic brain injuries, they're lifelong. You know, those things are 572 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 9: something that you know, they're not just emotions that we 573 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 9: can deal with and pass on or you know, there's 574 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 9: something that these girls and their very young lives are 575 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 9: gonna have to deal with into their adults. 576 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: Let's take a look at that arrest again. I'm really 577 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: surprised that they didn't offer him some cookies and milk 578 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: when they arrested him, they practically apologized for putting him 579 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: in coast. For Pete's sake, this is a two time 580 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,439 Speaker 1: sex attacker. There's no question of guilt or innocence. Why 581 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: are they treating him this way. I don't expect them 582 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: to throw him face down on the asphalt and drag 583 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: him to the car. But for Pete's sake, I mean again, 584 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: milk and cookies, listen, ready. 585 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 7: To obviously tell our story too. Yeah, yes, it's mom 586 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 7: opened the door. It's made. And if you'll just have 587 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 7: him step out and. 588 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 5: Give me your. 589 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 7: Wallet and phone and stuff, so. 590 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 17: You're one, Okay, it's not a long during things like okay, 591 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 17: so can you tell him what you just call me? 592 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: Or yeah, so we're here. 593 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 18: We're obviously going to place you under arrest. There's a 594 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 18: for your arrest. We're going to take you to the jail. 595 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 18: I told your mom that she can contact a bondsman 596 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 18: and you shouldn't be very there very long. But there 597 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 18: just is a process for paperwork and stuff. But right 598 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 18: now you do have to come with us, and I 599 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 18: do have to put you in handcasts so turn around 600 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 18: for me. 601 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,919 Speaker 5: I don't have to put your Yeah, I transports something. 602 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 7: I'll get you out for me, all right, Silent knows 603 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 7: about this. Can you dance on this way? 604 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 17: We're coming, Okay, stay strong, Okay, so your prayers still 605 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 17: are pay all. 606 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 5: Past that where they don't think you went for one 607 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 5: full of. 608 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 7: Vitelli, A confluent experience for the time. 609 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 16: I will never forget the night you strangled me unconscious 610 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 16: because I said no. That moment changed my life. A 611 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 16: medical professional leader told me that I was just thirty 612 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 16: seconds away from dying. Thirty seconds. If you had kept 613 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 16: your hands on my neck just a little longer, I 614 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 16: wouldn't be standing here today. That wasn't just as scare. 615 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 16: It was a near death experience. 616 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 10: It didn't just hurt me. 617 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: You nearly killed me. That strangulation victim l s one 618 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: of the two little high school girls she ends up. 619 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: That's the girl that had to have the surgery on 620 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: her neck with a prominent scar. She had facial drooping 621 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: me because of it. But I mentioned a second victim. 622 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: We're calling her k S Listen. 623 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 2: Later that same week, Butler tells KS he wants to 624 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 2: strangle her again, this time on film, because he enjoys 625 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 2: watching her pass out afraid of what would happen if 626 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 2: she refused Chaos and again loses consciousness while Butler's hands 627 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 2: are wrapped around her neck. The officer who takes Kaos's 628 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: report discovers the video still saved to Butler's phone, matching 629 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 2: her description and time frame. 630 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,479 Speaker 1: Joining us now Domestic violence sex assault Detective NAPA Bill 631 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: Hernandez Bill, thank you for being with us. How many 632 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: times have you heard a defense attorney argue there's no 633 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: proof that happened? And I remember jervis, what do you 634 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,439 Speaker 1: want a video? We've got a video, Bill, But yet 635 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: the judge allowed him to walk free with counseling, and 636 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: the DA with a straight face, put that up as 637 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: the deal. That's terrible. 638 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 19: I can't imagine what these survivors are going to go 639 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 19: through because of that deal that it was struck. It 640 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 19: is unconscionable and it's really unbelievable that this happened, and 641 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 19: it's really going to encourage more people like Jesse to 642 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 19: do things like this, and it's going to really stop 643 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 19: other survivors from wanting to report because they see that 644 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 19: nothing's going to happen. 645 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: Guys, there is a move afoot to kick out the 646 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: prosecutor and. 647 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 20: The judge, Judge Worthington, previously underfire. A Cushing middle school 648 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 20: teacher pleaded guilty to sexually harassing a thirteen year old student. 649 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 20: Swain asked the girl for sexually explicit photos and to 650 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,959 Speaker 20: meet him in private. Swain also caught trying to break 651 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 20: in her bedroom window. Swains and it's to ten years, 652 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 20: but Worthington suspended the majority Wwayne spending just a year 653 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 20: behind bars. 654 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner or Crime Stories investigative reporter. You've researched the 655 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: judge's history. What can you tell me about a track record? 656 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:14,280 Speaker 21: So Judge Susan Worthington suspended this middle school teacher's almost 657 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 21: ten year sentence. So he spent just a year behind 658 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 21: bars for sexually harassing a thirteen year old girl trying 659 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 21: to break into her bedroom and Nancy, it gets worse 660 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 21: after his release on that suspended sentence. Swayin raced a 661 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 21: sixteen year old girl. He lured her into his car 662 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 21: at a gas station parking lotch raped her, and then 663 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 21: harassed her for months, trying to keep her quiet about 664 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 21: what happened. 665 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 22: That charge was dropped. 666 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 21: The District Attorney's office did not prosecute Swayne for that race, 667 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 21: and now he's charged again. Last year November, he was 668 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 21: charged with sexually contacting a minor third offense. 669 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: Tessler. Look, I can't tell you how seriously I take 670 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: every case I put in fun majury, in every guilty 671 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: plea one. There's so many nightmares. But one of my 672 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: worst possible nightmares is the thought that an innocent person 673 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: is behind bars. Not only would the innocent person be 674 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,959 Speaker 1: behind bars, but the guilty person would be walking free. 675 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: But when I hear that, how could the judge live 676 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: with herself or the prosecutor? The prosecutor is just as bad. 677 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,800 Speaker 1: They're the one that put up the plea deal and 678 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: the judge rubber stamped it. They both had the opportunity 679 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: to do the right thing. Did you hear what Sidney 680 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: was saying about Swain the middle school teacher breaking in 681 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: to a middle school girl's bedroom, cut loose by Worthington 682 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: went on to rape another little girl and harass her, 683 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: and now he's up on a third count. I mean, 684 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: I don't know how they can live with themselves. How 685 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: do they sit down at the supper table at night 686 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: and think everything's okay? That they're doing just a great job, right. 687 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 4: Unfortunately or unfortunately, that's what makes judges usually become more 688 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 4: and more conservative. You have one mistake like that and 689 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 4: one backlash, and you say this is never going to 690 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 4: happen again. This is rare, This is a unique situation. 691 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 4: You're asking the right questions. I don't know the answers, 692 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 4: but yeah, it is strange that a judge would not 693 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 4: become over time more and more conservative, more and more 694 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 4: concern that I'm going to make a mistake. I don't 695 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 4: want to happen again. 696 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 5: It sounds like it could be a mistake. I don't 697 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 5: know all the details. I don't know why. 698 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: But you know what, Randy, there's nothing that can be 699 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: done now, is there. Once a plea has been offered 700 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,760 Speaker 1: and accepted. Once the state offers a plea, the defense 701 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: accepts the plea. That's a deal. You cannot go back 702 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 1: on a deal, no matter what, even if another prosecutor 703 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: offered it. Once the deal has been accepted, it's a deal. 704 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: But the judge doesn't have to accept it. 705 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 5: I mean, of course, if you find wrongdoing. 706 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 4: You see this in politics all the time, right, If 707 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 4: someone's wrongfully convicted because there was an impartial judge who 708 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 4: was on the take. There are ways to go back 709 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 4: at this, and that looks like what you're suggesting, this 710 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 4: judge had some ulterior motive, some reason to help this 711 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 4: community member that was a baseball star and a Rizon 712 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 4: baseball star and connected by family. That's about the only 713 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 4: way you can go about getting a sentence undone is 714 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 4: to say that it wasn't done. Probably the person doing 715 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 4: it was corrupt. Otherwise you can't go back and re 716 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 4: argue the facts or say try again, you're right. 717 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 5: The sentence is a sentence. 718 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: You know Bill Hernandez who is a domestic violence sex 719 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: assault detective in NAPA. Bill, you mentioned the burden that 720 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: these victims, the rape victims and their families are going 721 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: to have going forward. 722 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 22: Described well, what's going to happen, what's going to have 723 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 22: to happen for them, is they're going to have to 724 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 22: deal with this trauma for ever, for the rest of 725 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 22: their lives. 726 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 19: There's also some long term consequences, especially related to the 727 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 19: stringulation that these girls are going to be suffering for 728 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,800 Speaker 19: them a long time. And I heard that one of 729 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 19: them had to have surgery because of facial palsy and 730 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 19: also an injury to her neck, and it's just going 731 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 19: to be a long term, long time recovery for them 732 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 19: and the families. 733 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 16: I've had to carry this weight while going to school, 734 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 16: trying to act like I'm okay. I've woken up from 735 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 16: nightmares that make me feel like I'm being attacked all 736 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 16: over again. I've had to explain bruises, explain silence, Explain 737 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 16: why I started isolating from people who love me. You 738 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 16: didn't just strangle me with your hands. You strangle my voice, 739 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,800 Speaker 16: my joy, my ability to feel safe in my own body. 740 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: Two high school girls brutally attacked, and the attacker enters 741 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: a NOLA, which is a conviction, and walks free with 742 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: counseling to Page tail Or vestigated Reporter Fox twenty five, 743 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: what if anything is happening, Well, we know that he. 744 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,400 Speaker 3: Has to follow this plan under the Youth bull of 745 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 3: Under status, which means attending weekly counseling, one hundred and 746 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 3: fifty hours of community service curfew, no social media, and 747 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 3: daily check in. So he will have to follow that 748 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 3: plan until he turns nineteen, which is less than a 749 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 3: year from now. 750 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: That will be next August. 751 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 3: If he strays from that plan or does not comply 752 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 3: with that plan, then he could go back to that 753 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 3: seventy eight year sentence. 754 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: So then nothing Randy Kessler very quickly. Once a deal 755 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: has been struck, even if it's a deal with the devil, 756 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: and the judge goes along with it, it's really hard 757 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: to change that, to get that. 758 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,800 Speaker 5: Reversed, right, I mean that I was just there, that 759 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 5: that was right. 760 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 4: All we can do is hope the next time it 761 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 4: doesn't happen again, and do what we can to prevent 762 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 4: it from happening again. 763 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 5: But yes, the answer to your question briefly is yes. 764 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: He just fanned me a sam and she saying I'm 765 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,400 Speaker 1: gonna act like I like it. We are working to 766 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: have the plea deal reversed. In the meantime, Judge, get 767 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: off the bench and same to you, District Attorney. You're 768 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: not worth the salt that goes in my bread be gone. 769 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't want to see anything but tailhole and elbows 770 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: out of you while you run out of town. If 771 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 1: you know or think you know anything about this case, 772 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: please contact Stillwater PD four zero five three seven two 773 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: four one seven to one. And if you are someone 774 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: you know is an assault victim, please dial eight hundred 775 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: sixty five six four six seven three. We remember American 776 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: hero Deputy Sheriff Devin Haramio, Miami Dade, just twenty seven, 777 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: shot in the line of duty, leaving behind grieving parents. 778 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: American hero Deputy Devin Haramo Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend.