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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stefan

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Speaker 1: Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio. And today we

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Speaker 1: are so so so happy to be joined by Renee

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Speaker 1: Powers of Feminist book Club, the podcast, the business, the

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Speaker 1: subscription box, all of it.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. I am so

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Speaker 2: excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: We're so excited to have you. We've already like we

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Speaker 1: do this all the time. We just adopt people as friends.

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Speaker 1: So you're like our friend.

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Speaker 2: Perfect.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have really fun hangout times where we complain

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Speaker 1: about business stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I love this for all of us.

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Speaker 3: I love that your podcast just fits perfectly with ours.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, why haven't we've been hanging out before.

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Speaker 3: That's that's more that's stranger to me than the this part.

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Speaker 1: It's true, it's true, and this is this is a

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Speaker 1: really fun thing because you're coming on our podcast and

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Speaker 1: we're going to be on your podcast, which I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: admit I'm a little nervous about because you feel a

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Speaker 1: little bit more polished.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh, it's all a facod it's all fake, fake

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Speaker 2: it till you make it, is my mantra.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love that as our like twelve year

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Speaker 3: veteran here are saying she's nervous, and yes, still get nervous.

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Speaker 1: It's like I want a plane with turbulence, right.

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Speaker 2: I have to tell you though, And I was telling

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Speaker 2: Samantha this earlier that I started podcasting because of stuff

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Speaker 2: Mom never told you, Like I started listening back in

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Speaker 2: like twenty ten, is that right, Like yeah, like even

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Speaker 2: before Caroline came on, it was it was Kristin and Molly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what inspired me to podcast. I remember drive.

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Speaker 2: I had a thirty five minute commute out to my

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Speaker 2: grad school program, and I would it was a straight

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Speaker 2: shot and I would just cueue up all the back episodes.

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Speaker 2: I A fan ever said, so this feels really like

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Speaker 2: I don't know, this is really fulfilling to me. So

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Speaker 2: thanks for thanks for chatting with me.

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Speaker 1: I love that so much. Oh my gosh, I'm almost

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Speaker 1: like I'm thinking back to oh my time, because I

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Speaker 1: was an editor at that point. I was the editor

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Speaker 1: of the show. So that's so cool. It's like those

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Speaker 1: connections you can make over technology and you don't realize, yes,

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Speaker 1: like he's made them.

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Speaker 2: The parasocial relationships have become real social relationship.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, it's so odd too working

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Speaker 1: in this business when you, like, as an editor, I

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Speaker 1: would know such personal facts about people who have never

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Speaker 1: spoken to me before, but I work with them. It

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Speaker 1: was just such a strange thing. Is like, you probably

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Speaker 1: don't even know my name, but I know when you

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Speaker 1: like lost your virgin very bizarre. Well, okay, can you

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Speaker 1: introduce yourself to our listeners.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, as you said, my name Swerna Powers. I

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Speaker 2: she her pronouns. I am based in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and

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Speaker 2: Minneapolis proper, not one of the urbs.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a big thing.

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Speaker 2: That's a thing for everyone, like way exactly. Yeah. But

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Speaker 2: I am the founder of Feminist Book Club. We are

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Speaker 2: a monthly book subscription service and media company. We use

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Speaker 2: literature as a launchpad to have difficult conversations about social

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Speaker 2: justice and we've been doing this for just over five

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Speaker 2: years now. This grew out of a failed dissertation. Oh wow,

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Speaker 2: So I'm actually I'm a I call myself a pH dropout.

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Speaker 2: I spent eight years in grad school, six years in

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Speaker 2: a PhD program, and I was studying gender and communication

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Speaker 2: and technology and got to the point where I did

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Speaker 2: all my coursework, I passed my exams, and then I

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Speaker 2: went to propose my dissertation and I failed it three

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Speaker 2: times and I was like, I'm out. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 2: just like horrible on my mental health. So I was

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Speaker 2: in Chicago. My partner is from Minneapolis. We moved up

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Speaker 2: here together, and I was like, well, I had this

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Speaker 2: interview project as part of my dissertation. I'm just going

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Speaker 2: to do it as a podcast. And like I said, stuff,

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Speaker 2: mom never told you got me into podcasting, like listening

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Speaker 2: to podcasts and feminist podcasting I think is such an

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Speaker 2: interesting medium. And so thanks to y'all and what you do.

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Speaker 2: Feminist book Clubs started as a podcast, and my listeners

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Speaker 2: would say, like, you're always giving you know, book recommendations,

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Speaker 2: like what if you had an actual book club, And

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Speaker 2: it just grew organically from there. We started just a

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Speaker 2: bunch of friends in a Facebook group reading the same books,

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Speaker 2: and now we have you know, a thousand members around

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Speaker 2: the world and our own platform and app, and we

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Speaker 2: talk to authors and we have a you know, bi

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Speaker 2: weekly podcast. Bi weekly has twice a week, not every

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Speaker 2: other week, it's twice a week podcast and daily blog.

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Speaker 2: We're big on TikTok. We're big on Instagram. It's just

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Speaker 2: rad as hell. So that's what we are and what

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Speaker 2: I do. I just kind of guide the ship.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and it is quite the ship. You've got quite

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Speaker 1: a large team. I was a little jealous when I

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Speaker 1: was looking at it, right, This is amazing. You get

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Speaker 1: to work with these this many people.

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Speaker 2: They're so cool to. Every single one of our contributors

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Speaker 2: and staff is just like the coolest people I've ever met.

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Speaker 2: And I am big on surrounding myself with people that

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Speaker 2: are much smarter than me. So we do have We've

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Speaker 2: got kind of our executive team of four of us

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Speaker 2: that our podcast producer, We've got our blog editor in chief,

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Speaker 2: and then our Captain of commerce is their title, and

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Speaker 2: their name is Raw and Ron and I work in

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Speaker 2: Minneapolis together in an office space, and so we are

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Speaker 2: the only two full time employees. But everyone else is

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Speaker 2: a contributor and you know, doing two to four pieces

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Speaker 2: of content every month and helping out on you know,

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Speaker 2: the community and creating all sorts of really cool conversations

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Speaker 2: to starting really interesting conversations of like things that they

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Speaker 2: are interested in and therefore I am now interested in.

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Speaker 2: So it's Yeah, our content really runs the gamut of

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Speaker 2: a little bit of everything. We've got you know, someone

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Speaker 2: who works for the federal government. We've got a former

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Speaker 2: park ranger. We've got a science communication like professional, like

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Speaker 2: feminism applies to everything, and we are able to use

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Speaker 2: our team of contributors to highlight that. We've got like

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Speaker 2: a film writer, like it's just cool, it's just cool.

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Speaker 2: Everybody is just yeah, a romance author like what. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a great team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. And I do want to come back

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Speaker 1: to the thing you said about being a feminist podcasts

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Speaker 1: in this this space in a second, But just first,

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Speaker 1: I have a couple questions about how has podcasting treated you,

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Speaker 1: how has it been? And then also I find we

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Speaker 1: have a book club on here. It is once a

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Speaker 1: month and it's amazing, But I find that it's difficult

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Speaker 1: to like read a whole book for podcasts, which sounds terrible,

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Speaker 1: but like when it's your job, like you're researching all

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Speaker 1: the time, you're reading stuff all the time, it just

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Speaker 1: becomes like okay, and I hate this, but it's true.

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Speaker 1: We'll be like this book is too long, we can't

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Speaker 1: read this one. Have you found that that has sort

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Speaker 1: of leaked into your personal enjoyment of reading.

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Speaker 2: Mmmm. What a good question. I'm h So. One of

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Speaker 2: the reasons I started Feminist Book Club is because I

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Speaker 2: was so tired of reading like research, like dead old

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Speaker 2: white guys writing about postmodernism like over it. So anything

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Speaker 2: that's not that has always been fun for me. But

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Speaker 2: to your point, yes, there are some books that kind

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Speaker 2: of feel like homework, whether that's for you know, one

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Speaker 2: of our books of the month, or if that's the

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Speaker 2: guest that we're gonna have on the podcast. I read

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Speaker 2: everybody's books that's on the podcast. So yes, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what else to say about that without affending people.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to do got to interview.

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Speaker 2: Gosh, But what I will say is I'm a very

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Speaker 2: fast reader, and so I always have at least three

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Speaker 2: books going at once, and if if one, if I'm

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Speaker 2: reading something for quote unquote fun, so I don't have

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Speaker 2: like the author coming on or I don't have to

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Speaker 2: write discussion questions for our book club. I am not

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Speaker 2: afraid of not finishing a book like time is too precious.

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Speaker 2: I will I will put it if it's like fifty

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Speaker 2: pages in, and I am not feeling it. It's just

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Speaker 2: not the right time for me. It's not you know,

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Speaker 2: the vibe that I'm looking for. I will shelve it.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm unapologetic about not finishing books. I also listen

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Speaker 2: to most books on audio rather than reading physical books,

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Speaker 2: and Feminist Book Club does have an audiobook subscription nice.

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Speaker 2: And I find that being able to constantly be listening

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Speaker 2: to something, I get through so many more books because

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Speaker 2: I can do it, you know, while I'm walking my dog,

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Speaker 2: while I'm washing dishes, while I'm doing yardwork, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I at nine percent of the time I've got

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Speaker 2: you know, earbuds in and I'm listening to a book

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Speaker 2: on at least one point five speed.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. I love it when people are write it and

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Speaker 1: like I only listen to it this this this speed.

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Speaker 2: Like all right, your audiobook is great at one point

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Speaker 2: five speed.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's good to know myself as well, so if

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Speaker 3: not too a chipmug a fuck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you both sound great. That's a great speed

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Speaker 2: for y'all.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my gosh, I love that so much.

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Speaker 3: I like it.

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Speaker 1: It's true though, it is. Oh, I'm sure we'll probably

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Speaker 1: talk about this a bit when we are on your show.

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Speaker 1: But it is one of those things that we kind

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Speaker 1: of had to say to our boss, which felt strange.

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Speaker 1: It felt like he was assuming this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: a grand slam because you've got like an audience, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, but people listen to things because they

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Speaker 1: can do something else while they're listening to the thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's just different mediums, Like I'm not sure it's

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Speaker 1: going to translate necessarily. But both Samantha and I foolishly

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Speaker 1: didn't realize we were going to do an audiobook, which

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy about, like it's very cool. I want

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Speaker 1: to be accessible all that stuff, but I just it

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Speaker 1: is different when you can walk your dog or cook

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Speaker 1: or do something while you're listening to a book.

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Speaker 2: And I'm one of those people that I always have

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Speaker 2: to be doing something with my hands, Like yeah, so

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Speaker 2: it's hard for me to sit down and read a book.

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Speaker 2: I'm very like fidgety, and so what I often do.

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Speaker 2: Then I got really into cross stitching. Yes, yes, so

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Speaker 2: I have just dozens of cross stitching projects that I'm

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Speaker 2: working on, and I will just sit on the couch,

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Speaker 2: listen to my book and and do my little do

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Speaker 2: my little cross stitching because I'm seventy five years old

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Speaker 2: and unashamed of it. And I'm also in like I'm

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Speaker 2: calling at my cozy mystery era, like all I want

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Speaker 2: to read are like women solving murders, but like cozy yes,

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Speaker 2: so yes, I just make me a cup of tea

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Speaker 2: and you know, reserve a bed at the old Folks

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Speaker 2: Home for me because I'm.

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Speaker 3: Sounds does me?

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Speaker 1: No, No, Samantha is looking for a lazier version of

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Speaker 1: cozy game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like I'm.

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Speaker 3: Like trying to actually do things and having quests. No,

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Speaker 3: that's like good, I'm good. I just I want to

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Speaker 3: do something in less than that. What do I just

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Speaker 3: click on things?

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Speaker 2: Thank you? That's how That's how I got If you

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Speaker 2: want to talk about games, That's how I got into

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Speaker 2: animal crossing because it's just like, yeah, I just want

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Speaker 2: to sit here and fish.

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Speaker 3: Well that's the thing is like I literally stopped building things,

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Speaker 3: so it's like I don't want this to be a

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Speaker 3: whole village. I wanted to be my five people, and

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Speaker 3: I just go selfish. I don't understand what this is

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Speaker 3: even to the point like I actually try to start

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Speaker 3: knitting and I did. Okay, I did a couple of rows,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, and I'm done. So I'm really

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Speaker 3: good at it.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's all right to change an audiobook.

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Speaker 2: You do a few more and you can do a

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Speaker 2: few more roads.

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Speaker 3: I am an odd person when it comes to audiobooks.

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Speaker 3: I do like I will play phone games while I'm

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Speaker 3: listening to the audio, or I will sam I will

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Speaker 3: work do the double whammy of that. So yeah, but

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Speaker 3: I like your version better except for the fact that

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Speaker 3: I'm not talented enough to do this stitching. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's just following. It's just following a map. It's

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Speaker 2: so easy.

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Speaker 3: This is what people tell me. And then I try

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Speaker 3: it and then it comes out of blob. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: you lie to me.

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Speaker 2: All the stitches and start over, which is also really satisfying.

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Speaker 2: Is it okay?

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Speaker 3: Because in my mind I'm just automatically breaking the string

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Speaker 3: and throwing it across the room and screaming up my failures.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough, that sounds yeah. I could chat all day

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Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff. But you did propose a

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Speaker 1: serious topic for this episode, which is something that we

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Speaker 1: struggle with that we think about a lot. And that's

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Speaker 1: when you are an intersectional feminists and that's something that's

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Speaker 1: part of you, but you're still in this capitalist space

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Speaker 1: that is not that and in fact and typical to that.

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Speaker 1: So how to be a feminist in a space that

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Speaker 1: is not when we do have to, you know, have

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Speaker 1: livelihoods and make money and survive, but how to do that?

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Speaker 1: So if you can just talk about like your initial

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Speaker 1: because you said you've done a lot of interviews about

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Speaker 1: this lately, you've been thinking about it lately, sort of

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Speaker 1: the when you sent this idea to us. What was

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Speaker 1: on your mind? What are you thinking about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's something that I think about constantly, is

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Speaker 2: how to run a feminist business, because, like you said,

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Speaker 2: that feels contradictory and it's something I'm I changed my

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Speaker 2: mind about all the time. And this is something you

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Speaker 2: all discussed in your book too, and I love that

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Speaker 2: you talk about this. Fear of failure is detrimental to

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Speaker 2: the feminist movement. And I've been screaming that from the

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Speaker 2: top of my lungs, right that you know, if I

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Speaker 2: don't show up try and fail, Like, if I don't

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Speaker 2: show up and try, knowing that I could fail, Like what,

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Speaker 2: that's not moving anybody forward?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: So all I'm saying is like, this is my approach

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Speaker 2: and I will likely fail, but that's okay because we

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Speaker 2: will all learn something from it. Right, So, how do

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Speaker 2: we participate in capitalism and critique capitalism at the same

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Speaker 2: time is something I think about a lot. And the

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Speaker 2: the short answer is capitalism is compulsory, Like there's nothing

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Speaker 2: that we can do to remove ourselves from capitalism and

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Speaker 2: still be just like a functioning human in the society.

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Speaker 2: So that means that we have to participate in capitalism ethically,

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Speaker 2: And so how do we do that? What does that

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Speaker 2: look like? And so that's what I've been like, how

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Speaker 2: to be an anti capitalist business is like really hard,

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Speaker 2: But how to be an ethical business that prioritizes the

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Speaker 2: needs of its customers, the needs of its employees, the

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Speaker 2: needs of its staff before profit. I think that is

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Speaker 2: what sets feminists businesses apart from your run of the mill,

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Speaker 2: even small business. I was gonna say, like Walmart, but like,

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Speaker 2: even there are a lot of small businesses that are

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Speaker 2: just in it for the bottom line. Yeah, every decision

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Speaker 2: that is made in this business from a place of

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Speaker 2: people over profit. Like, yes, we have to pay our bills,

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Speaker 2: but if by chance we can't pay our bills. We

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Speaker 2: will still pay our people, and that's a real thing.

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Speaker 2: Right We're in a recession, and there are there are

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Speaker 2: times like right now, I was just telling you all

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Speaker 2: before we started recording, like our office space was broken

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Speaker 2: into four times in the last month and we lost,

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Speaker 2: you know, over five thousand dollars worth of equipment, Like

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Speaker 2: all of our festival stuff is gone. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: so frustrating and insurance won't cover it, which is really great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh I love it.

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Speaker 2: So like we started a I believe deeply in mutual

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Speaker 2: eight too, and so we started to GoFundMe and we're

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Speaker 2: starting to like recoup some of those costs and anything

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Speaker 2: left over is going to start to help us get

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Speaker 2: the ball rolling on reincorporating as a feminist co op,

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Speaker 2: an employee owned co op. So that's I wanted to

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Speaker 2: get this business off the ground, so it was stable,

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Speaker 2: it was running, it had systems and processes right.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 2: Then I wanted to step away. And so that's what

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Speaker 2: we're in the process of right now, is putting the

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Speaker 2: business in the hands of the actual community. Like I said,

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Speaker 2: my background is in feminist theory, and so I come

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Speaker 2: at this not from a business standpoint. I don't have

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Speaker 2: a background in business. I don't have a business degree,

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Speaker 2: but I come from this from a theory background. And

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Speaker 2: what does it look like when we put feminist theory

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Speaker 2: into action? And there is a research method called feminist

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Speaker 2: participatory action research, and I have tried my best to

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Speaker 2: adapt that to running a business. And what that really means.

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Speaker 2: It's a feedback loop, right of you know, we're thinking

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Speaker 2: about this decision. What do you think we want to

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Speaker 2: go this direction? What do you think this goes all

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Speaker 2: the way down to Like the books that we pick,

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Speaker 2: I don't pick them, our members pick them. I choose

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Speaker 2: a theme because I'm like, well, we haven't read Native

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Speaker 2: American voices lately, so like, let's do Native American voices

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Speaker 2: month something along those lines. We haven't read trance voices,

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Speaker 2: we haven't read about Hollywood, so like our next Our

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Speaker 2: next theme is in the zeitgeist, right because they're on strike.

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Speaker 2: But it's a night of the movie, so we're gonna

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Speaker 2: be having conversations about the strike and the labor movement,

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Speaker 2: but you know, all under the guise of reading fun

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Speaker 2: Hollywood stories. So I propose the theme. Our members suggest

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Speaker 2: titles based on that theme and then everybody votes and

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Speaker 2: that's what gets chosen as the book of the month.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, learning with and from participants instead of like teaching,

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Speaker 2: like just not assuming I'm the smartest person in the room,

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Speaker 2: because I'm absolutely not. But you know, bringing our community

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Speaker 2: into the decision making has been really rewarding. And then

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Speaker 2: and then they feel invested in it too. So I

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Speaker 2: think that's I just gave you, like all of my

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Speaker 2: word salad about about running a feminist business. So yes,

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Speaker 2: let's let's let's let's synthesize here, right, So restructuring into

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Speaker 2: a co op, people over profit, prioritizing our customers' opinions

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Speaker 2: and asking for their feedback, I think, and opening up

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Speaker 2: this feedback loop. I think that are those are the

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Speaker 2: hallmarks of how we run a feminist business and how

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Speaker 2: we uh yeah, push back against and participate in capitalism

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Speaker 2: in in an anti capitalist way. We're not in it

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Speaker 2: to make a pajillion dollars. Nobody sells books to make

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Speaker 2: a pajillion dollars unless your name is Jeff Bezos and

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Speaker 2: he can give.

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Speaker 3: Agreed, agree, Also, can we actually make money? Because I

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Speaker 3: want to make money with the book. How do we

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Speaker 3: do this Annie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry not to be the bearer of bad news,

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Speaker 2: but son of them. Okay, sorry friends, but yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: thank you.

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Speaker 3: I love the wrap up that was. You can tell

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Speaker 3: I've definitely done presentation. I see your PhD in here,

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Speaker 3: like trying to do the defense.

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Speaker 2: Not quite a PhD. I'm considered abd all the dissertation.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well I'm gonna I'm gonna say you have it

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Speaker 3: because you you were.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, You're so you can still call me professor Powers.

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Speaker 2: I will, I will every day.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that's such an interesting conversation because

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Speaker 3: we've had to have a back and forth about like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we need money to live. Uh, so we can't say

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Speaker 3: because like we have a lot of ads and advertising,

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Speaker 3: and we try to be very very very conscious of

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Speaker 3: what we say yes and no to, and of course

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Speaker 3: sometimes we just don't have any control at all. And

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Speaker 3: then the like pushback we get because we are an

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Speaker 3: absolute and we stand by the intersectional feminist, we make

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Speaker 3: mistakes or we may not know every information because as

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Speaker 3: much as we want to be those upstanding people, the

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Speaker 3: fact of the matter is this is a job. We

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Speaker 3: have to make money. I have to do things kind

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Speaker 3: of the same way, and I was in social word

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Speaker 3: of like, I'm doing some things that I really hate,

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Speaker 3: but I'm trying to do it in the best and

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Speaker 3: more conscious way possible, knowing that I'm finding a system

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Speaker 3: that's rigged against everyone, every marginalized group in so many ways.

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Speaker 3: Like have you had a lot of conversations on how

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Speaker 3: to like navigate that for yourself, especially when it comes

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Speaker 3: to like advertising and all of those.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we do sell advertising, and we are very picky

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Speaker 2: about who we are willing to work with. And that's

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Speaker 2: I mean, and that's one of the pluses of being

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Speaker 2: independent is we don't have a parent company that we

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Speaker 2: have to make money for, Like we are making money

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Speaker 2: for ourselves to keep this ship afloat. So we only

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Speaker 2: work with women, gender non conforming or queer or people

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Speaker 2: of color in terms of like the books that we spotlight,

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Speaker 2: the the companies that we work with for like the

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Speaker 2: products that come with the books, because we do send

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Speaker 2: out like a sticker or like a bookmark or something

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Speaker 2: like small cute, and we do quarterly boxes that are

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Speaker 2: full of goodies and books and those all those things

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Speaker 2: come from small marginalized identity businesses, including like our our

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Speaker 2: web developer and our you know, our podcast editor are

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Speaker 2: our printer that we use for like inserts and stickers

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Speaker 2: and stuff. So like when we spend money on something,

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Speaker 2: we are doing that within our values. Would we take

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Speaker 2: money from someone, I don't care who we take money

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Speaker 2: from as long as that product is aligned with us. Gosh,

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Speaker 2: and very rarely have we worked with CIS men and

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Speaker 2: CIS owned businesses, this male owned businesses. But I'm not

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Speaker 2: gonna say no to if like Casper Mattresses or something like,

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna assume their own by a white guy.

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Speaker 2: If Casper Mattress wants to like give me a bajillion

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Speaker 2: dollars to pitch them on our podcast, like or like

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Speaker 2: a free mattress like thank you, yeah, yes, and like

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Speaker 2: one all of our friends, you know, like right, because

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Speaker 2: you're getting me money, and I feel like that's feminist.

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Speaker 2: But if it's like if it's like a company that

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Speaker 2: sells only like Maga hats, absolutely not, Like I don't

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Speaker 2: care if you give me a bajillion dollars, I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to you know, sell ar fifteens on our podcast.

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Speaker 2: But right, but like a mattress owned by a cess,

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Speaker 2: why guy, probably, yeah, yep, So like that's like we

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Speaker 2: could be really picky, but thankfully we haven't had to

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Speaker 2: have run into those issues. It's the flows of money, right,

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Speaker 2: It's the flow of capitalism and like redistributing it. And

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Speaker 2: that's one thing also is like we work primarily with

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Speaker 2: women owned businesses because studies have shown when you put

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Speaker 2: capital in the hands of a woman owned business a,

435
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: you will lift generations out of poverty, but be it

436
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 2: will also be redistributed amongst that community. So the fact

437
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: that you know, we are more likely to give our dollars,

438
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 2: we are one hundred percent likely to give our dollars

439
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: to small women and minority own businesses just means that

440
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 2: that money continues to do good in whatever community they

441
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 2: serve instead of going into If we were to give

442
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 2: money to Bezos, for instance, that's just going into his

443
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: pockets and into his like four oh one k. Does

444
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 2: he even have a four oh one k? Probably not,

445
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 2: like he is a four oh one k, but like, well,

446
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 2: you know what I mean is that it's going into

447
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: like investments, which doesn't do anybody any good except for him.

448
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, yeah, you ended up hitting on a

449
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 3: topic which was an inside joke for us about me

450
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: trying to get a damn mattress from Jump, like, because right, well,

451
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 3: that's hilarious. Right before I started everyone that was one

452
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: of the big things, individual mattresses, and I was like,

453
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: I want one.

454
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: That started the best we've gotten as vibrators. We got vibrators.

455
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 3: Be happy with that too, but.

456
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: They were woman owned. They're a woman Latina owned, so like.

457
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 3: We had someone on who had those amazing vibrators.

458
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 2: I want one.

459
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: We never got it, though I was really hoping, Oh, I'm.

460
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: Sorry for it. I paid for it, but I got

461
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 1: it anyway. Moving well, that's one of the interesting things

462
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: about I think about this a lot, and sometimes I

463
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: think this is kind of a petty thought, but sometimes

464
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, this is completely legitimate. But we sometimes

465
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: get teased because we turned down a lot of ads.

466
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: We really do. And there was this infamous study so

467
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: Matha didn't do it, but I had to fill out

468
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: like this huge form where you just it was. It

469
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: took me four hours and it was just like sponsors

470
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: that you might be okay with working with. And I

471
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: feel like for people who want to uphold intersectional feminism,

472
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: that was a homework assignment because I literally had to

473
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: look up every company, Yep, what they do, where do

474
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: they donate their money? All of this stuff, And I

475
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: think that people who issued it were just holly white

476
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: men who didn't think like I'm not. They're like, oh,

477
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: do you like this or do you not like that?

478
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: Like that kind of dichotomy versus wait, what do they

479
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: stand for? What do they do? And sometimes I get

480
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: a little grumpy because I'll hear some male colleagues of

481
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: ours We're like, oh, I just said yes to that

482
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: because I like that. I'm like, well, okay, but did

483
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: you know about this? Right?

484
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 3: Right?

485
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: Right?

486
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: Did you know they single handedly caused the fires on

487
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: MAUI like.

488
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 3: You know, like the content, we really would have an

489
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: ad that we said yes to two years prior and

490
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 3: then come back and go like, oh, well, here's a

491
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 3: new controversy and we can't use them now, whether it's

492
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 3: like strike things or union things or or do you

493
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: recall or you found out that the CEO was a

494
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: man who did not care about people when it was

495
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 3: branded as women owned, Like, there're so many things that

496
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: came back. We're like, what's happening? And then not only

497
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: do we say no and probably Anie, because ay does

498
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 3: this work, I'll love you Anie, She's already justified. Why

499
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: we get another pushback like are you sure now? Tell

500
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 3: me why again? Tell us why again? And they're not.

501
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 3: We love our as people. Please don't think this because

502
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: they're just doing their job. But the of matter is

503
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,239
Speaker 3: like there is extra work to what you think. And like,

504
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 3: we got another ad vetting today and I'm looking at it,

505
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, we know this already controversy, so we

506
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 3: definitely probably will say no. You know, like all these things.

507
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 3: I already know what Adie has said in turning it down.

508
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 3: It was a huge company, and it's like this is

509
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 3: what we have to do and then justify two or

510
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 3: three times about why we can't work with them.

511
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even and it sucks too. It's like it's

512
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: hard for us when we are purchasing things. So for

513
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: the first couple of years I live in Minneapolis, we

514
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: were using you line for our boxes. We didn't have

515
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: branded boxes. We were using you line because they are

516
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: just across the state line and Wisconsin. I could go

517
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: pick them up, Like it was really easy. I didn't

518
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: have to paper shipping, and they were the cheap on

519
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: the market, well, they're the cheapest on the market because

520
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: they're a bajillion dollar industry and they're one of Trump's

521
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: largest donors. That family, the Uline family. As soon as

522
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: I learned that, I was like, like, now I have

523
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: to I have to pay more to find something. But

524
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: it ended up being great because then I found a

525
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 2: family owned box printing company here in Saint Paul that

526
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: they were so like, they were so wonderful right where

527
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: they like I was sick, and they like brought they

528
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: brought samples to my house just so I could like

529
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: choose the ink color and then we got them customerz

530
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: like it turned out great. Shout out to Tilsner Carton.

531
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 3: I self was like this like an office episode of

532
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 3: like business owners and like they do these like.

533
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: What but help them. I didn't have the time at

534
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: the time to do my due diligence of like vetting.

535
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: It was just like where everybody got their boxes from,

536
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: you know, like oh, it was so frustrating and so

537
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: now yeah, so now we don't use you line, and

538
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: I suggest you not use you line because they are

539
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: a giant donor to the far right.

540
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: So there's so many conversations like that.

541
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: But at least our audiences know that we are putting

542
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: in that due diligence now, like we learn our lessons.

543
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when we get calls in is nice.

544
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if we are doing I mean, there's only

545
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: so much work and research we can do, but we're

546
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: doing the best that we can. And I think that

547
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: our audiences as an audience of yours, I know I

548
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: appreciate it. And I also know that y'all need to

549
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 2: make money. You can't do this for free.

550
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: I'm sure people will be like why podcasting was like

551
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: that to begin with?

552
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: It was, but it's not important, you know.

553
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 3: One of the other things I think about, especially when

554
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 3: it comes to like feminist businesses, you want to be

555
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 3: the person who supports the small businesses, that supports the

556
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: marginalized businesses as well. And for the longest time, Etsy

557
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 3: was the to go spot, and now you're getting all

558
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 3: this information about, oh, they're not being treated well. So

559
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: this comes to the point of like, okay, a, as

560
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: a small owner of a business, where do you go

561
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 3: b as a consumer? How do you navigate that as

562
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 3: well so that you're doing what you need to do

563
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 3: to truly help those businesses? Like how do you go

564
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: through all of that.

565
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there are a lot of marketplaces like at

566
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: C and for small businesses too, there are a lot

567
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: of like wholesale marketplaces. And one thing that I do

568
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: is like there's the ability to message like the business

569
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: owner on all of these marketplaces. At C we use

570
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: fair for a lot of our wholesale goods, and then

571
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: I always ask them like, how do you prefer that

572
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: I make this purchase? Like would you like to invoice

573
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: me directly? Because yeah, I want to make sure that

574
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 2: they're getting all of the dollars. So ye, Etsy's not

575
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: going to hold on to, you know, six thousand dollars

576
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: inevitably for six months or something like. What Etsy is

577
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: doing is really fun for a lot of makers. So

578
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: I would just go, you know, if I see something

579
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: that I really like, absolutely message the creator and just

580
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: say how what is the best way for me to

581
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: support you and and make it as easy as possible

582
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: for them. It's also like hard to do and it's

583
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: it's time consuming. So they're on Etsy for a reason,

584
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: and so I'm sure they're not going to be like, well,

585
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,239
Speaker 2: don't buy from Etsy. They would rather you buy from

586
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: Etsy than not buy it, all right, So if you

587
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: don't have the time or energy or spoons to spend

588
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: on you know, going out of your way to message

589
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: the artist or the creator, like, it's fine, but if

590
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: you do have that extra energy to spend, please.

591
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: Do Essentially, Like what it comes down to is, I

592
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: know there's a lot of small businesses and trying to

593
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 3: take off. Essentially they're hoping that they'll go They're gonna

594
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 3: make the the gold mine of being viral. I know

595
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 3: that's the new thing, and that's let's just be real honest,

596
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: that's rare. That's not going to happen to most small

597
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: businesses as much as we would love it. I know,

598
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: like the small restaurants are hoping that by the kaith

599
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: Lee of TikTok will come through and and like just

600
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 3: blow up their business. But that's that's a rare occasion.

601
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: So for any business owner who's trying to be especially women,

602
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: because we know that they are the least likely to

603
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: get any help when it comes to advertising any of that.

604
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: How what's the best route for them to have their

605
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: business take off or at least to be profitable.

606
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's okay, that's excellent. That's an excellent question. First, off.

607
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 2: I will say, like, even going viral doesn't do We

608
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: have had several of our TikTok videos, you know, get

609
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: five hundred thousand, a million views. It barely moves the

610
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: needle for us. We will get a lot of traffic,

611
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: but it doesn't necessarily traffic doesn't equal sales. Right, We'll

612
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: get a lot of followers, followers, you can't you can't

613
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: make money on followers. So it's like converting virality is

614
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: really hard for a lot of people. So there's that.

615
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: But I also think that there are so many really

616
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:03,479
Speaker 2: really cool organizations that are created just for small business owners.

617
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: Insert identity here, right, if that's queer small business owners,

618
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: if that's black small business owners, and women small business

619
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: owners have Like, there are so many resources, and I'm

620
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: gonna shout out a couple of them in particular. I

621
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: was a part of the Tory Birch Foundation Fellowship in

622
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and they select it's founded by Tory Birch,

623
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: And she actually created her fashion line so she could

624
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: give back. This is what I'm saying, Like, women do

625
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: cool with their businesses and their money. Like she two

626
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: likes fashion, but she was like, but I want my

627
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 2: fashion to do something and like support other woman business owners.

628
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: And so she launched the Tory Birch Foundation, which focuses

629
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: solely on women owned small businesses and getting them up

630
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 2: off the ground and giving them the resources that they

631
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 2: need to succeed. And so every year they pick fifty

632
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: women own small businesses across the country and I Famous

633
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: Book Club was one of them in twenty twenty one.

634
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: And it's a cohort of women owned businesses from all

635
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: different industries from you know, finance, tech to restaurants to

636
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: roofing companies, and we all come together online to learn

637
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: the basics of business, learn the ins and outs, learn

638
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: new skills. But also I think the most important thing

639
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: that comes out of these kind of incubators or accelerators

640
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: or fellowship programs is the connections that you make with

641
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: other small businesses. Like I have made so many close

642
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: friends through these kinds of things who will be there

643
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: to support me. They're just a text message away, you know.

644
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 2: Or we have a very active WhatsApp group that is

645
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: just like I have to mute it most of the

646
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: time because it is so so active, which is lovely, right.

647
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: So I think that women especially tend to lean on

648
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: their communities or or ought to learn how to lean

649
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 2: on our communities for support in all sorts of ways.

650
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 2: Whatever that means, Like, hey, does anybody have like a

651
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: marketing professional. I mean just like just yesterday, I got

652
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 2: an email from somebody in the Torri Brish Fellowship that

653
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: was like, Hey, I'm looking for somebody who specifically does

654
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 2: you know CpG consumer package goods sales through Klavio, which

655
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: is like an email client, And I was like, I

656
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 2: actually have somebody who works with integrations with WU commerce.

657
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 2: Like these are very very specific asks. It's like, oh wait,

658
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: there's somebody in this group that knows exactly what you

659
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: need and like can make that in direction. So it's

660
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 2: just a way to like to network and to like

661
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: grow your connections so you have you have those resources

662
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: when you need them. So yeah, the Torribrtch Foundation has

663
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 2: been fantastic the connections that I've made there. But also

664
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 2: there are local organizations like this too. So I'm also

665
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: part of Lunar Startups, which is just Minnesota based and

666
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: they work with under estimated and underrepresented founders, so they

667
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: specifically work with people of color, women and queer folks.

668
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: So I was a part of that. During the pandemic,

669
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: we started March like third of twenty twenty in person

670
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: in Saint Paul, and then the world cut out and

671
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: we all moved to Zoom crying, and it was great.

672
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: We were all in the trenches together at least like

673
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: fifteen you know, small business owners in the Twin Cities,

674
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: we're like, when do we need? Everything sucks? So I

675
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 2: was so glad to have that resource because I don't

676
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: know what I would have done otherwise. So just like,

677
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: building these communities is so necessary for small feminist business

678
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: owners because we cannot do this in a vacuum, but

679
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 2: we require That's one thing that we learned in the pandemic,

680
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: or we didn't learn the pandemic that we should have learned,

681
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: was like, we need to take care of the community's

682
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 2: needs in order to take care of our own needs.

683
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 2: And until we take care of the community around us,

684
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: you know whatever that means, however, you to find community like,

685
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: we cannot succeed full stop. So what is it? Yeah,

686
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: how do we take care of everybody's needs in order

687
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: to take care of our own needs? I think Robin

688
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: waal Chimer said it best in Braiding Sweet Grass it's

689
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 2: my favorite, one of my favorite lines of any book ever.

690
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: She says that all flourishing is mutual, like we cannot

691
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 2: flourish until we are in all of it together flourishing.

692
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: There's no individual flourishing like that.

693
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: And it's true. The pandemic really showcased for like small businesses.

694
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: It started that conversation of like, oh, well, we've been

695
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: kind of pushing this to the side, ignoring this for

696
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: so long, and now we have We're trying to have

697
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: some conversations about it. Some more healthy or helpful than others.

698
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: But there was that aspect I did want to touch on,

699
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: and I'm hoping that this will give you some room

700
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: to really rant because it's something that bothers me is

701
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 1: a lot of time. Samantha kind of alluded to it.

702
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: Because we're feminist podcasts, we're women moms in the name,

703
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: we get a lot of ad requests from businesses that

704
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: are pretending to be feminists or any any like intersection

705
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: with it, like queer, Like during Black History Month, all

706
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: of this happens, and it's just like I've multiple times

707
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: been like, okay, but you're saying you're donating this, what

708
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: are you donating it to and then I never hear

709
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: anything again. What are your thoughts on the people who

710
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: are trying to use this feminist business model to pretend

711
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: and to cash in, but are actually like the most

712
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: superficial things.

713
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, let me, let me get out my soapbox.

714
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: You're alluding to incredibly performative feminism, and it is most

715
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: likely white feminism if we're gonna keep it. In the

716
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 2: realm of feminist we get so many, so many book

717
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: pitches in particular that are like unleash the Goddess within,

718
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 2: or like your Warrior Woman says Rar, or like boss Babe,

719
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: but how to start your girl boss Empire. And it's like,

720
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 2: none of those things are feminist. That is so disgusting.

721
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: Those are so neoliberal, capitalist junk. Can we get to

722
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: the second and third layer of this, because your surface

723
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: layer of white feminism is I'm allergic to it, like

724
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 2: please please step away. Who Yeah, it makes me very angry.

725
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: But the thing is like I just simply say, like,

726
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: thank you so much. This does not align. We are

727
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 2: really trying to amplify the voices of folks on the margins,

728
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: not let's be honest, like rich white lawn yoga instructing

729
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: green smoothie drinking privileged women. And if you are that,

730
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you are here because you need

731
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: to You need this kind of information in your life.

732
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 2: The stuff that stuff, that stuff Mom never told you,

733
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: you know, covers. It's like, that's one way to broaden

734
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: your your horizons. And and yeah, there are a lot

735
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: of companies out there or organizations out there that just

736
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 2: give lip service to whatever is in the zeitgeist right

737
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: that they're raising money or they donate to, you know,

738
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: we say social justice organizations. We say we donate to

739
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 2: social justice organizations every month, and we don't name what

740
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: they are publicly because for a number of reasons, because

741
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: we're not marketing on that, like we're not using that

742
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: as a marketing tool, and so our members know where

743
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: the money is going. But also I am a strong believer.

744
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: I grew up Catholic. This is where I wanted to go.

745
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 2: I grew up Catholic, and like social justice Catholic. Though

746
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 2: like the real the realising everybody.

747
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: Get some emails.

748
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding, sorry, but not like but not not

749
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 2: Catholic or it's like anti abortion Catholic, but but like

750
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: feed the feed the hungry and clothe the naked. Catholic

751
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 2: is like how I grew up. And one of the

752
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 2: things that really stuck with me from Catholic school is

753
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: when there's a there's a verse in the Bible. And

754
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: don't ask me what part of the Bible, I have

755
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: no clue at this point, but there's a verse where

756
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 2: it says, when you pray, go into a closet and

757
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: pray in solitude. Nobody needs to know that you're praying, Like,

758
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: you're not praying for everybody's brownie points. That's performative. And

759
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 2: the same thing goes with our our social justice and

760
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: our activism, like, yes, we need to be out marching,

761
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: Yes we need to use our privilege for good those

762
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: of us who have privilege. Yes, we need to put

763
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: our bodies on the lines, especially white bodies on the

764
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 2: lines in front of people of color, Like, yes, those

765
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: are things we need to be doing. And at the

766
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: same time, your entire Facebook feed doesn't need to know

767
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 2: that you just donated fifty dollars to plan parenthood. That's

768
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 2: who is that doing. That's just making you feel good.

769
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 2: And so I think a lot of businesses think that

770
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: you know, saying that they're going to donate X, Y,

771
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,959
Speaker 2: and Z is just like it's just lip service, it's

772
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: just a marketing ploy And it's really frustrating for me

773
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 2: to see as a company who has donated tens of

774
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars of our profit to social justice organizations

775
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,479
Speaker 2: across the world, but we don't use it. We're doing

776
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 2: it in our closet and praying God, I'm so sorry,

777
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: And this is how I get canceled o.

778
00:43:51,760 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: So you know, it is so frustrating, and I can't

779
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: we can't go into this because it'll become a whole

780
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: railroad going off the railroad situation. But it's like, I

781
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: hate that. I'm into what you're doing. I'm into what

782
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: you're saying, and I asked for any details and then

783
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: none come forth. And then if they do, if you're like,

784
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, bud Light, and you do this thing

785
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: and then they freak out and backtrack immediately, like it's

786
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: like illuminating because it tells me you literally have never

787
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: thought about what it must be like to be a

788
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: transperson in this case and all of the backlash that

789
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: might be, but you thought it would be cool to

790
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: cash it. Like it's like uninformed. It's like not even

791
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: it's malicious, but it's almost more uninformed than malicious.

792
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 2: First off, that woman in particular Dylan, who just got

793
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 2: brutally attacked online because she got bud Light sent to her,

794
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 2: Like that's just my heart goes out to her. What

795
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 2: I would prefer bud Light Anheuser Busch and MBEV who

796
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,240
Speaker 2: owns like every major beer company in this country, and beyond,

797
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 2: what I would prefer to see them do is have

798
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: trans folks on their board of directors. You know, Like,

799
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 2: I don't give a if they are giving a can

800
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 2: of beer to Dylan on TikTok. What I give about

801
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: is if you are including their voices in decision making rooms,

802
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 2: like transpolts need to be in the work room where

803
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: it happens, you know, like it's not just yeah, that

804
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 2: is the definition of performative. If they had had a

805
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: trans person in their like marketing, the influencer outreach division,

806
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 2: like that wouldn't have happened.

807
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 3: That's kind of the epitome of like the privilege that yeah,

808
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 3: people don't realize there is. So the fact that Annheuser Busch,

809
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 3: they had a little bit of backlash. All they did

810
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 3: was stay silent, literally allowing this woman to take all

811
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 3: of the threats and harassment and being like, yep, oh,

812
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 3: well that didn't work. That didn't well it did partially

813
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 3: pay out for a minute because there were supporters for

814
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 3: the second and then their silence and apology shows not

815
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 3: only their blindness, ignorance and harmful behavior in everything that

816
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 3: they just did without again talking to the right community.

817
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 3: Who did they talk to? They're like, this person's a

818
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 3: TikTok famous little let's send a beer, which we already know.

819
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 3: All the mess on that end we're not going to

820
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 3: talk about. But that kind of comes back to this

821
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 3: whole conversation of like who is this for, why are

822
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 3: you doing this? And what does this do? And then

823
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 3: when we look at who may be a woman, and

824
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 3: this is the whole conversation any and I've had plenty

825
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 3: of times women supporting women, but what are these women

826
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 3: actually doing and what are they doing that is good

827
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 3: for other women and other marginalized folks. So we have

828
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: to backtrack, like, no, it can't just be simply this

829
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: and this. There's a lot of women on businesses like

830
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: I think about this often because again coming back to Etsy,

831
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 3: because I tried to be is whatever. Well, I'm like, yeah,

832
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 3: but this person, oh, she's got she's got some things

833
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 3: on here that I do not want to support. She

834
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 3: has anti abortion, she has all these things, and I'm like,

835
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 3: I can't support that. I have to dig in to

836
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 3: see who she's selling to or someone who has no standards,

837
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 3: and I get to the point of like, yeah, you

838
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 3: have to make a business. I get it, but you're

839
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 3: willing to put mega stuff onto your stuff and then

840
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 3: sell it and then also Black Lives Matter that doesn't work.

841
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. There was that That reminds me like when we

842
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: were doing whatever, I was purchasing for one of our

843
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: boxes ones. There was a product that I thought was

844
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 2: so cute and it came in all these different designs

845
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 2: and I was like, ooh, so close to purchasing, and

846
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: then I kept going and scrolling and I was like,

847
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: uh uh.

848
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 3: Oh when you go to the review, when you go

849
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 3: through the reviews and you see who she's oh, you're like, ma'am, oh,

850
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: we're in Minneapolis.

851
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 2: We are not supporting somebody who has Blue Lives Matter

852
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: on there.

853
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 3: That's the other part to that, like we have to

854
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: hold our own accountable as well, and I say this

855
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 3: as an Asian woman who all this rhetorics and very

856
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 3: very like white supremacist rhetoric that I'm like, I do

857
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 3: not support this. I do not support them just because

858
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 3: they're an Asian woman. We have to have that conversation

859
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: of like that fine line of just because it seems

860
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 3: okay because on the outside, this is a person of color,

861
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 3: she's an Asian woman. Okay, cool, cool, cool cool. Even

862
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 3: queer people you're like, oh they're queer. Oh but they're

863
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 3: they're staunchly still somehow republican. Like I don't I don't

864
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 3: get this, but I have to know that this is

865
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 3: not necessarily just supporting, like that's right, you have to

866
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 3: dig deeper.

867
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 2: Poles come in every shade, race and you know color,

868
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 2: like everybody can has the potential to be a total.

869
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: Yes, that's how I live. Everybody's probably an I'm just kidding.

870
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. So yeah, I like to think that

871
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 2: I want to support, you know, first and foremost intersectional

872
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: progressive businesses just personally. But yeah, and if that's not available,

873
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 2: a minority owned business, a woman owned business is better

874
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 2: than again, it's better than Amazon. But yes, being mindful

875
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: of like, what's that person likely going to do and

876
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: support with their dollars is really important to me?

877
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I do think you said something earlier that

878
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about it before. But I often

879
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: complain about this extra work we have to do, and

880
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: I complain like it's like hm hmm, I wish I

881
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 1: could just be like, oh, yeah, I like that thing

882
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: that's mine, But you're right, it does. I have heard

883
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: from friends who have told me like, I like that,

884
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: I know that you do that. It makes me feel better.

885
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: And that's not to say we've made mistakes. We've said

886
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: yes to things that later turned out to be terrible,

887
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 1: and we try to learn from that and be like, Okay,

888
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: not that one again, because a lot of times in

889
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: our company they'll be like, you said yes to it once,

890
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: surely yes again. No, not always, but it is like,

891
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: it is a lot of work, and I don't think

892
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: everyone has the time to do it, yea, or even

893
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: the emotional because we were talking about this the other day,

894
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: like women typically or marginalized people typically are more drained

895
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: from what from the patriarchy, from white supremacy and all

896
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: this stuff.

897
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:32,760
Speaker 2: What's happening in the world.

898
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe you don't have the time to vet

899
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: certain things. So I do think that is a value.

900
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: I think that's something. I'm glad that you said that.

901
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna you put a more positive spin on this

902
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: whole thing for me.

903
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 2: And it comes from a place of privilege, right that

904
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 2: we I in particular, have the time to do this

905
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 2: research and can afford it. And that's what's really I

906
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: don't want to discount the privilege that I hold to

907
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: be really mindful as a as an agent of capitalism,

908
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 2: because it's not Not everybody has this privilege. Not everybody

909
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 2: can afford to shop at, you know, small mom and

910
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: pop grocery stores because they are more expensive. If Amazon

911
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: and Walmart are what you can budget for, I am

912
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 2: fully supportive of that. You know, that is where you

913
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 2: are in your life in the society to society sucks, Like,

914
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 2: don't feel bad if that's if that's where you are,

915
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 2: Please don't feel bad. Shame is not a tool of

916
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: social justice, right, Like, that's not going to help anybody

917
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: for me to say, like you're shopping at Walmart. Hell yeah, like.

918
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 4: Some some people have to, And that's okay because I

919
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 4: do have a little bit more time and resources.

920
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 2: I don't need to, but I am glad that it

921
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 2: exists for the people who need it. And that same

922
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 2: goes for every institution right that there are institutions that exist,

923
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: there are stores that exist for the people who need it,

924
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 2: and I'm glad they exist. Do I wish Do I

925
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 2: wish they had more ethical practices? Absolutely, But that's something

926
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 2: I can do with my resources, and my privilege is

927
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 2: to push back and to call, make the phone calls

928
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 2: and to say and demand better of these companies so

929
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 2: that they can continue to support underprivileged communities.

930
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: Yes, this is true. I think about this every time

931
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: voting comes up, which, as you've probably heard, is rough

932
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: in Georgia. Is that like, I don't know how people

933
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: who have kids who work many jobs have the time

934
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: to vote but also have the time to research who

935
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: to vote for, because a lot of times it'll be

936
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: like I can't find information about any of this, so

937
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, I guess this guy I don't know. So

938
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: that is a big conversation of It's frustrating because it's

939
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: like the Walmarts of the world are playing a part

940
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 1: and keeping us in this situation, but also they are

941
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: important because we are in the situation. It's it's frustrating,

942
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it is, especially you know, we're

943
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: in city, but when I was in the small town,

944
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: it's only game in town. That was like that was

945
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: it exactly same?

946
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I grew up in northern Indiana, and it's like,

947
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 2: you got your groceries at Walmart, you bought your you know,

948
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 2: incidentals on Amazon. It's just what you do. There was

949
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: a Barnes and Noble, like that's that was the bookstore.

950
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 1: Yes, and you go hang out there and you were cool.

951
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you get your Starbucks. Yes, that's fine, fine,

952
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: because that's what is aig and that's what is in

953
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 2: a budget. And yeah, I'm never going to be here

954
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 2: to shame somebody for doing what they need to do

955
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 2: to get by.

956
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: Yes, well, thank you so much, Renee for coming on

957
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: here to spend the light. You are a friend. Officially, Yes,

958
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: we could talk forever, but I suppose we should seriously

959
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,959
Speaker 1: just to sign off for this one. But let's hang

960
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: out and just complain. I feel like I'm in a

961
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: complaining movie, which is rare for.

962
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 3: Me's a hobby that I have complaining that's less.

963
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you. Where can the

964
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: good listeners find you?

965
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 2: The best place to go is Feminist book Club dot com.

966
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: We're on Instagram at your Feminist book Club because Feminist

967
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: book Club is taken on Instagram, but Feminist book Club

968
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: is available on TikTok, so you can find this Feminius

969
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: book Club on TikTok And uh, yeah, everything, everything's on

970
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 2: our website though, that's the best, the best place to go.

971
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: Yes, And and you have show notes which I am

972
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: very jealous of.

973
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 2: They're not but there what we have, so I'm very jealous.

974
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 1: Yes, just go check it out listeners. It's amazing. Also,

975
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: we will be on the show. We'll see how this goes.

976
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 3: Yes.

977
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you would like to contact us,

978
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: you can. Our email is stuff Adia mom Stuff at

979
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at

980
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff

981
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: I Never told you. We have a tea public store

982
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: you can buy merch on there. Also we have a

983
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: book coming out well, you can reorder it as stuff

984
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: You should read books dot com. Thanks us always to

985
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our

986
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to you for listening

987
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: stuff I never told you. Inspection by heart Radio. For

988
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: more podcast in my heart Radio, you can check out

989
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts where you listen to

990
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 1: you Davish