WEBVTT - Mental Health May: Somatic Therapy 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.520 Hey, Nerd fam, I hope you're still doing healthy and well. 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.680 We are really excited to kick off mental health. May. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:09.440 We have a lot of cool interviews and topics and 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.320 brain science that we are covering. I just wanted to 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.880 say that there is a slight trigger warning. You know. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.520 We talked about some really difficult UH situations and things 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.919 in this UH and and therapy and trauma in this episode. 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.919 So if you are in a difficult place right now, 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.240 you might want to hold off on this episode or 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.880 wait until you're feeling a little bit better. And here's 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:42.199 our episode. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.120 NERD Difficent. I am one half of your host if 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.199 you wad way, and sitting across from me digitally is 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:54.240 Danny Fernandez. And I'm so excited for this month, IFFI, 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.920 I'm so excited that we're doing this. We this is 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:02.120 our first episode of men Total Health. May. I think 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:06.720 it's always relevant, but incredibly relevant right now. Yeah, I 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:08.560 think now more than ever it's a good time to 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:12.039 have that discussion. You know, you can see a lot 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:16.280 of folks I don't know, it's just being alone with 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.200 your thoughts for all all this time. You know, it 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.000 has different effects on everyone. And I think it's also 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.120 good to talk about mental health so people know it's 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:29.680 okay to seek help and to talk about it and 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.800 it's not something that a little sleep or what have 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.399 you as gonna deal with. Yeah, and also, you know, 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.240 because this is a nerd based podcast, there's so much, 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:45.200 so much cool science behind treatment. UM. I've been pretty 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:49.040 vocal about the different treatments with trauma depression that I've done, 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.840 and I just find them so fascinating and I'm constantly 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.559 learning about new ones UM. And today we have a 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.920 wonderful guest to talk to us about healing as well 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.040 a somatic therapy, and that is Karen or Lickman. She's 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:07.559 a therapist and spiritual director in San Francisco. Hey, everybody, Hey, 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.400 thank you so much for joining us. Karen. Oh, it's 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.160 my pleasure. It's my honor and my pleasure. So I think, 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.480 first off, the first question we'd love to talk about 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.720 is like what you do and what your expertise is, 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.359 just for the listeners to get to know you. Sure, 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:26.120 I thought you were going to ask me what I 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.040 was nerding out too. Oh my gosh, now we should 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.080 do that. She listened to our wonder Woman episode and 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.919 thank you so much. You are a thousand percent correct. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.760 We always start with what we're seeking out about. I 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:43.880 think we were just excited to but no, yes, what 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.560 are you seeking out about? Let's talk about that. Okay, 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:51.960 So two things. One is um cooking. I'm totally geeking 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.280 out on cooking and um, that's been really awesome. Actually, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.280 so last night I made a spicy roasted colleigue hour 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:06.480 with feta, and UM, so good. It's gonna I'll be 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.560 my lunch when we're finished today. And then the other 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.000 thing I'm geeking out too is um these videos that 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:17.400 are called high Kids. This is like a great uh 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.760 stress coping strategy. They are these little five minute videos 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:25.639 of kids, um trying weird food, or kids meeting people 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:30.720 who have unusual professions or who like a farmer, gang member, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.240 a farmer, really homeless person. And kids are so awesome 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:38.240 because they just say whatever. They don't censor the way 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:43.240 adults do, and it is hilarious. So, UM, I love 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.800 the high Kids. Oh I'm definitely going to check that 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.520 out because yeah, it's you know, just watching the way 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.600 kids taken information, watching like Naomi grow up. There's this 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.320 like both like pureness, but this unfiltered where it's like 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.720 I'm gonna just say it because I don't know, like 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.280 I'm not you know, thinking about whether or not it 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.920 hurt your feelings. But I'm just I want you to know. 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.080 But one thing that she's doing that I'm really uh into, 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.840 she like is giving us like status updates all the time, 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.960 like she's like I'm happy or um or like I 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.680 remember one time I thought, I was like, oh, you 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.760 watched too much TV. You're gonna read books, and then 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:29.080 she was like, I'm sad because I want TV. You're 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.360 gonna have to be sad right now. I'm sorry. But yeah, 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.520 I'm also on the cooking train. I've been uh, I've 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.120 you know, I feel like I've been so in my 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.440 instant pot especially the my my selling point that I've 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.560 been telling all my friends is jasmine rice in four 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:49.440 minutes like that that is that is enough to get 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:51.520 so so I have like a bag of rice ready 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.039 because that was the thing is I was always the 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.200 only reason I didn't. I would always do like beans 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.520 or lentils. Uh. And I'm talking about straight out the 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.840 can just because those were quicker because rice is such 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:03.800 a long process and now that I can get it 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.599 out in like four minutes. And um, you know we 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:12.400 I've watched this movie, the Better Half, Alice Woo's second film, 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.719 and there's this sausage maker character in there, like his 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.120 family makes sausages. So I bought like a bunch of 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.839 broad worst and I've been cooking like lots of sausage. 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.440 Uh so yeah, I'm I'm I'm also on the cooking train. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:30.880 But in the iffy physical media saga, the latest films 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.560 I got was I got John Wick three on Blu 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.680 Ray and uh and Big Lebowski because I always have 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.720 to a copy of The Big Lebowski. Maybe I feel 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:43.920 like you could just like wait and watch it on 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.479 f X like literally any day. Oh, I have The 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.920 Big Lebowski on DVD, but I wanted to own it 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:54.400 in four K. And yeah, that's it's my favorite movie. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.840 You needed to see the pores up close? Yeah? Um 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.320 for me, the thing that I'm king out about is 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:06.760 the Mandalorian documentary The Behind the Scenes on Disney Plus 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.160 It's Disney Gallery Star Wars the Mandalorian. I loved how 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:16.040 they had a round table of the directors. Um and honestly, 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.279 also I mean Deborah Chow, which is just seeing like 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.080 Jon Favreaux, like just you know, gush over her uh 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.279 and the action sequences, um, watching Tyka be Tyka and 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.839 silly behind the scenes. And then Bryce Dallas Howard, who 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.400 I still to this day. Her episode of Black Mirror 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:35.960 is some of the best, like her best acting I 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.800 think ever. UM and I just love I don't know. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:41.880 I love all the risks that they're taking with having 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.320 different directors. I love seeing the behind the scenes. And 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:49.240 I'm really excited for the next UH season, which I'm 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.000 sure is going to have baby. He better still be 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.200 a baby. I'm not ready for him to be old 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:57.880 man Yoda anytime soon. I think it will literally take 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.680 like seven hundred years because he's only five. Now. Well, 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.360 there was the picture that just went out the other 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.920 day of UH, which was one of the horror directors. 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.760 Uh is it? Now? That's not Ramaro? What's what are 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:20.560 the who did Grindhouse? Oh? Um? The other the one 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:26.840 opposite of Quentin Tarantino who owns l Ray Oh? That's um? 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:31.000 Uh Robert Rodriguez, Yes, let me see, I think it 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:36.720 might have been him. Um, maybe not, Yeah, Robert Rodriguez. Yeah, yeah, no, no, 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:41.120 I mean made him. He eighteen hours ago posted a 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.520 picture right next to baby Yoda and said, I'm truly 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.720 humbled to say I have now had the rare privilege 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.520 of directing the biggest star in the universe. So Robert 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.640 Rodriguez directed an episode in the next season which I'm 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.160 so curious to see what that, you know, just knowing 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.560 his work, like, is it going to be a heavy 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.920 act and pulpic I would love that so much? But yeah, 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.760 so and in the pictures, Sorry, the reason I brought 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.239 it up. In the picture it's still a baby. Yeah, 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.240 there you go. So still going to cash in on that. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:20.720 Um well um kicking off our mental health may super 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.520 excited again about this episode. But Karen, I just kind 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.560 of wanted to get into why you chose this field. 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.120 I feel it's such a it's such a giving like 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.640 to be someone that that people can turn to, uh 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.280 to help heal. It's uh, I think at times can 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.120 be very blessed and thankful but also thankless, I think 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.080 at times. And so I just wanted to know what 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:50.439 specifically made you go into this field. Well, I am 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:55.000 I'm a licensed clinical social worker, so like my training 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.360 and my education is as a social worker. And I 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.280 never thought I was going to become a therapist. I 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.240 was like an activist and a community organizer and you know, 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:09.360 I wanted to like run ship and make change. And 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.439 I do come from a family of people who are 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.480 of service, like teachers and therapists. And my mom was 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.679 a big activist and like you know, took us to 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:22.960 demonstrations when I was a kid, and so I was 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.400 really raised with this strong value of being compassionate and 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:32.800 taking action. And but the first like ten years of 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:37.920 my work life, I actually worked a lot with homeless 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.880 pregnant drug addicts and UM was just like a basic 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:44.920 kind of on the ground social worker in a health 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.640 care setting and certainly brought like took a lot of 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.800 classes about how to do therapy and what therapy is. 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.760 But UM, I've always had this philosophy of you know, 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:59.480 how do I be with people where they are? Um, 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.520 there are some people who are just like never going 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.200 to go to therapy. It's not their thing. They've shame, 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.920 there's a stigma against it, whatever are the reasons. And 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.320 so working in that hospital setting, even though I wasn't 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.440 doing therapy, but I was able to be there as 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.080 a resource and as an advocate and a support. And 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.600 I still there are still a couple of UM women 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.880 that I met at the hospital, like thirty years ago 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.560 who still periodically will call me and say like, oh, 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.840 my kids graduated from college, or like I've been sober 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.520 for twenty five years, or just like it's so amazing. 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.400 So I eventually got totally burned out on working in 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.599 the health care system and decided, like one of the 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.240 reasons I also became a social worker was because there's 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.280 just so many different things you can do UM, and 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.679 I also care about the larger context, like it's not 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.319 just about what your toilet training is like, but it's 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:56.640 also about gender and race and class and um you know, 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:00.400 global trauma and like what we're all dealing with right 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.040 now in some ways in terms of a global pandemic 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:07.640 is a global trauma in a certain way. So UM 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.439 I thought, well, I'm gonna try private practice and see 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.439 how it is, and turned out I really loved it. 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:18.400 And UM I started out and was certainly trained in 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.520 some way in what might be considered traditional talk therapy, 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:28.000 but I because I always worked with people who had 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.800 experienced trauma, so like, for example, my second year of 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.280 graduate school, I had an internship working in a rape 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:37.800 crisis center, so I worked with women who had been 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:44.720 either sexually assaulted as adults or as children. And um, 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.840 I was amazed at like how the brain and the 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:52.720 body works to keep people safe and alive, Like we 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.360 are biological organisms at our core. And I remember I 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.640 was um co leading a group. I had a supervisor 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.000 at the time who specialized in something that used to 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.960 be called multiple personality disorder, which is actually quite rare 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.640 and we don't call it that anymore. But and um, 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.960 I was leading a group, co leading a group with 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.720 my supervisor, and this the woman would literally like come 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.280 in and switch personalities, which was very disconcerting to the 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.760 other people in the group. And so my supervisor just 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.360 said to her one time, We're just going to ask 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.920 you to bring I'm going to make up a name 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.040 Amy to the group and leave everybody at else at home. 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.719 Would that be okay? And she was like okay. I 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.880 was like, wow, that is so magic, Like it was 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.200 so it was amazing to me. And I remember thinking 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.800 how cool it is that our brains have this way 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.560 of protecting us by you know, what we call dissociation 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.400 right where you like, something's happening to you, but you're 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.960 separate from yourself because the pain would be too unbearable. 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.200 And so if we have the capacity to disc see 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.600 it that way, to disconnect from ourselves, we must have 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.960 the capacity to reconnect, Like if it can go one way, 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:08.720 it can go the other way. But you know, I 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.920 was still young and I was learning, and I wasn't 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:17.959 sure exactly how that worked. And eventually, over time I 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.400 UM wanted to have I had some instinct about really 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.320 like helping people to work somatically, but I felt like 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.440 I needed ethically and professionally to have more training, like 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.440 I need to know what I'm doing. This has to 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:37.320 be legitimate. I'm a licensed professional. And so I took 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.440 a couple of workshops and classes and eventually found a 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:47.920 modality called sensory motor psychotherapy that UM gave me much 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.280 more training and vocabulary and tools and working with trauma 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:56.160 and UM and it since has shaped I still do 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.200 talk therapy with a lot of people, like there are 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:05.920 some even subgroups of of semantic therapy like UM neurofeedback 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.440 and brain spotting and something called e M d R, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:13.160 and there are some other things like that um, and 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.440 I think different therapists gravitate toward different modalities just depending 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.040 on their personality and their skill set. But what I 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.840 like about the semantic work is that it actually empowers 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.080 people to be in charge of their healing. It gives 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.760 you actually ultimately more of a sense of control, even 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.520 though it can feel like less control, and ultimately that 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:40.080 sense of empowerment, like your story does not run you. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.600 You know, your trauma does not run you. You are 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.280 actually the person in charge of your own life, and 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.960 here are some ways you can do it. That just 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:54.400 makes sense to me. Yeah, that's super uh, super dope 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.040 and interesting. And really, because I was in Danny Knows This, 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.480 I went down like a wormhole of Uh, there's a 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.080 lot of not a lot. There's a few, like prominent 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:10.120 YouTube folks who have disassociative disorder d I d UM 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.480 and them kind of explaining how it is. And that's 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:15.200 kind of what you were saying. That's one thing I 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:19.440 learned because they're saying that, uh, most times their new 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:24.400 quote unquote personalities come from a trauma and then and 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.560 they like, there are some personalities that are built to 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.640 take in trauma, and then there are some to escape 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.960 it and and when you hear it, it makes so 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.880 much sense of like, oh, this is all just defense, 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.200 your body protecting you, where you're protecting you, where you're like, okay, 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.200 we're gonna And a lot of times the person who's 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.239 there to take in the trauma is uh an archetype 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.760 that is like strong who you know that person may 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.840 see as like someone who can like take that type 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.440 of stuff, and it's it's it just shows you the 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.640 power of the mind and why you know, and I 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.360 think Danny is the number one person, but we all 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.880 believe here, like you talked to a therapist, even if 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.080 you think you don't have to, even if you feel like, 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.720 oh I have nothing, just sitting down and talk, you'll 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.760 be surprised. And that's how you know a lot of friends, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.720 you know, we'll be in talking and they'll be like, oh, 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.080 I don't think I need I was like, well, I 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.000 feel like, look you got the insurance, you know, because 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.040 my friend group we're all writers, so you know they 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.640 have that great insurance. Because the w g A was 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.600 like writers, y'all need therapy. But uh, but like I'm 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:34.760 I like so many of them, I've just been like, 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:36.720 just go you know, you get it for free anyway, 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.200 you get it for free or cheap, just you know, 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.120 go see what happens. And a lot of them have 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:44.080 been like, WHOA, I'm glad I did that. I was 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.040 gonna say, I wanted to get into UM kind of 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:52.080 for people that don't know what Semitic therapy is, I 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.440 know that it was created by Peter Levine in the 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.760 nineteen sixties. I was watching videos about it that essentially 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.360 studying animals and wild and what they do with survival energy, 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.480 which you were kind of touching on, UM, But can 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.280 you explain it a little bit more for people that 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.840 aren't familiar with it. Absolutely, UM. Peter Levine is one 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:17.119 of a handful of people who have pioneered this field 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:21.520 of somatic therapy. And I think that like the general 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:27.560 population has heard the expression fight or flight, but actually 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:32.960 there are there are more than two, UM different responses 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.760 we have Like we are animals ultimately, and there are 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.800 these biological responses that we have to something that's perceived 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.639 as a threat. And UM. One of my favorite things 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.320 at ways to UM illustrate this is if you look 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.680 up something called feigned death f E I G N 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.399 E D. Have you seen this, I see, Dan, have 0:17:55.480 --> 0:18:00.720 you heard of this real? So much so, like if 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.879 an animal is being stalked by a predator, like a 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.399 gazelle is being stalked by a lion or a cheetah 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.840 or something like that, one of the they have all 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.600 these right, they don't want to be lunch. They want 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.639 to survive. So one of the responses that they used 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.400 to stay alive is that they pretend to be dead. 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.480 And when you see them on the video, literally they 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.560 look you can't detect any breathing whatsoever. They're dead. The 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.520 predator might even pick them up in their mouth, and 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.760 then they eventually because of the feigned death condition, the 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.199 predator will leave and you see the animal get up, 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.879 shake itself off, and just keep going. Like I could 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.680 not make this up. It's really remarkable. And so I've 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.159 heard stories from people it's not exactly feigned death, but 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.200 people who had trauma, especially as children, where they said 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.119 I just laid there and pretended I pretended I was 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.919 asleep until it was over, and UM other variations on 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:02.200 things like that. UM. And I think that now, of course, 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:08.000 with technology, UM researchers have the capacity to literally see 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.480 what is going on in the brain when somebody is 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.800 in what I'm going to call an activated trauma state. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.920 Because the way that Peter Levine and Bessel vander Koke 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:22.000 and some of these other UM pioneers have UM, what 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:27.320 they've uncovered for us is that UM, there's generally people 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.479 like the fight or flight. There's either this very hyper 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:35.080 aroused like UM fight response, like you know, I don't 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.280 want to die, so I'm going to defend myself, or 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.640 there's what we call the hypo aroused state, which can 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.480 sort of look like I'm depressed, I can't get out 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.000 of bed, I'm stuck, I'm not I can't feel, and 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:52.520 and and so they started to learn different strategies for 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.080 helping people regulate. So just an example that I know 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.120 is dear to your heart if he is physical exercise, 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.199 So being able to certain ways that people exercise, like 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.960 literally can have a huge impact on your body chemistry 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:13.000 and your brain chemistry. And so UM, whether it's rigorous, 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:20.680 really rigorous cardio or lifting, or something that's very subtle 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.239 and gentle like tai chi, but like that is a 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.760 way that we can actually have an impact on regulating 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.159 how our bodies respond. And then you can take a 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.240 picture of the brain and you can be like, hey, 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.960 the frontal lobe is completely lit up. This is awesome. 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.800 Mm hmm. Now I truly believe that because, yeah, I'm 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.359 a big, big fan of working out, and even you know, 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.439 we're talking about the quarantines effect on our mental health. Uh. 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.840 You know, one of the things that were shut down 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.560 immediately was the gym for a good reason. And I 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:57.920 totally felt the difference in my uh not only like, uh, 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.480 my general mental health, but also just to how I 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.000 viewed myself in the moment I was able to get 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.480 like a workout bench and workout at home, I just 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.440 immediately felt better and I felt and I realized that 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:10.959 that has been something just through doing it all this 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:16.040 time that I've attached to kind of normalizing my my situation. Usually, 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:18.879 especially if I'm on a busy schedule, of the moment 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.080 I can fit in the gym is when I start 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.520 to feel balanced. And it became like so apparent when 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:29.040 I needed, you know, the workout equipment just to feel 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:33.320 fine being at home absolutely well. And I'm glad you 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.920 mentioned about sheltering in place, because one of the things 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.080 I've been hearing from people a lot is that they 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:44.040 feel the urge to run, like they literally feel this 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.440 feeling in their legs, like they just want to like run, 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:53.040 and so um, that is can be like a natural 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.639 response to basically being trapped in the house, right, Like 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.800 anybody who's experienced trauma does not I mean, nobody likes 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:02.119 to be trapped, but if you're somebody who has actually 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.960 been trapped in a trauma, it's kind of extra potent. 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.720 And so sometimes I'll say, well, let's get up and 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.560 run and we'll run, we'll stand up, I'm stand up 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:16.959 to and actually like let the I sometimes refer to 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.080 it as like the body needs to finish telling the story, right, 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:24.399 It's not enough to just verbally tell the story. And 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:27.680 sometimes people actually don't even remember because the trauma isn't 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:31.760 just you know, a person to person thing that's occurred. 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.200 Trauma can also be a car accident, um, living through 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:40.520 a natural disaster. There's multigenerational trauma. There's people who have 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:46.840 been traumatized by um immigration experiences. There's the trauma extreme poverty, 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:49.280 Like there's all kinds of things that don't have to 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.040 do with mean people. They just have to do with 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:57.280 very painful experiences. And so it's a pretty low risk thing. 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:00.000 And I'm not gonna say no risk, but to say, okay, 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:03.560 we're going to run in place together and just move. 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.919 Notice what happens, and I'm right here running with you. 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:08.680 Because it's not a good feeling. If I were to 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:11.240 say this is just me personally, well, why don't you 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:12.720 get up and run and I'm just going to sit 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:15.320 here and watch you do it? Like that's not so comfortable. 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:20.359 But we are doing this together and let's see what happens, UM, 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.560 and we can stop any time. UM has actually been 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.480 really helpful for people. They're like, oh, I'm not insane 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:28.680 that my legs keep doing this thing. No, No, you're 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.679 not insane, honey, you're trapped in the house. Yeah. I 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:34.160 was going to say when I was watching uh TED 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:38.280 talk on somatic therapy that they were talking about it 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.919 was by Monica less Age less Age that they were 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:45.240 saying about becoming comfortable with trembling, that it's like the 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.879 body's natural response to energy, and your body is trying 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.080 to get out this energy and to be okay with 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.080 it as opposed to trying to stop it. And another 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:57.040 thing I wanted to say what I realized after I 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.680 graduated from I did an intensive outpatient program for trauma, 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:04.479 and I completely agree. I think a lot of people 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:09.960