WEBVTT - The Apartment with Emily Heller

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<v Speaker 1>Burn attention Beck to cast listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going on tour.

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<v Speaker 1>We really are. And it's not just any tour. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a tour in the UK and it's a tour where

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<v Speaker 1>we are covering Titanic and.

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<v Speaker 2>Shrek brilliantly titled the Shrek Tannic Tour. Yes, Shrek Tornic.

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<v Speaker 2>We're working on it. There's a couple there's a couple

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<v Speaker 2>months before the tour, but yes, we're really excited. We're

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<v Speaker 2>currently doing five shows in the UK, with more shows

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<v Speaker 2>to be added. Stay tuned at the end of May.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, starting with two shows in London on May twenty second,

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<v Speaker 1>once at six point thirty that's a Shrek show, one

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<v Speaker 1>at nine pm that is a Titanic show. Then we

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<v Speaker 1>are scooting over to Oxford on May twenty fourth we

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<v Speaker 1>are covering Titanic. Okay, Then we're scooting up to Edinburgh

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<v Speaker 1>on May twenty sixth and doing Strek.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're a Scottish Titanic fan, you are going to

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<v Speaker 2>have to commute. And I know that that's not but listen, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you live in Edinburgh recovering Shrek.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but also you're welcome. And then

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<v Speaker 1>if you do want to see Titanic, you can head

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<v Speaker 1>down to Manchester. We're doing a show on May twenty eighth,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's a Titanic show.

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<v Speaker 2>So as your Bechdel Cast allies in the US can

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<v Speaker 2>attest to. Our live shows are super fun. It is

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<v Speaker 2>like a live episode plus a bunch of fun stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>We dress up, we bring audience members on stage sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>we do. It's just it's big and goofy and silly.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're covering two of our favorite movies that are

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<v Speaker 2>Bechtel Cast canon, so we want to have a good time.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll be bringing exclusive merch and we will be doing

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<v Speaker 2>meet and greets before and after the show. We want

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<v Speaker 2>to meet everybody and we're really really excited. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you if you live in those areas, get those dang

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<v Speaker 2>tickets because these shows will sell.

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<v Speaker 1>Out, Yes they will, So head over to our link

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<v Speaker 1>Tree link Tree slash Bechdel Cast. All the tickets are

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<v Speaker 1>posted there. And like we said, we're working on at

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<v Speaker 1>least one more show in a different city, so stay tuned.

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<v Speaker 1>We're hoping to announce that soon. And otherwise, grab your

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<v Speaker 1>tickets for the Shrektanic.

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<v Speaker 2>And enjoy the episode on the Bechdel cast.

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<v Speaker 3>The questions asked if movies have.

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<v Speaker 4>Women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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<v Speaker 4>husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephi

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<v Speaker 4>bast start changing with the Bechdel cast.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, mister Jamie, Yes, mister Caitlyn, I'm mister Caitlin to you,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, mister Kaitlin, I'm gonna.

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<v Speaker 1>Need you to give me the key to your apartment

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<v Speaker 1>so I can fu a bunch of people there, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I'll give you a promotion.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe Okay, Well, here's the thing. You'll never see me

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<v Speaker 2>change the sheets. It's maybe implied that I did, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's not really implied that I did. So if you're

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<v Speaker 2>cool with me getting promoted and maybe sleeping on your com,

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<v Speaker 2>that's okay with me, mister Caitlin. Is Jack Lemon sleeping

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<v Speaker 2>on his boss has come the whole mooks? So he

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<v Speaker 2>comes home and he's so tired, and I like his

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<v Speaker 2>posture isn't that of someone who has the energy to

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<v Speaker 2>change their sheets?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? No, yeah, so he's sleeping and come and I

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<v Speaker 1>don't care about that. I just care that you buy

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<v Speaker 1>me a bunch of alcohol.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming you're not paying me enough to keep the

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<v Speaker 2>var stocked. But like you know, fingers crossed for a promotion,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to boy boss my way to the top

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<v Speaker 2>of insurance.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't understand the logistics of the sex apartment economy,

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<v Speaker 1>but what I.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it. It's so movie where who knows why

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<v Speaker 2>they need to fucket his apartment but he's sleeping, got

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<v Speaker 2>his bosses come that. Really, I couldn't stop thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>that the whole time because then Shirley McClain, I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>now she's in the cum sheets on the worst day

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<v Speaker 2>of her life. Come on, I know, I hope he

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<v Speaker 2>changed the sheets for her. Doubt it, Jesus doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 2>like it, because the scenes moved so quickly. I hope

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<v Speaker 2>the doctor insisted. I feel like he, of anyone in

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<v Speaker 2>the movie, would be like, hold on, maybe we should

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<v Speaker 2>change the sheets. Anyways. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My

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<v Speaker 2>name's Jamie Loftis.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Caitlin Derante. This is our show where

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<v Speaker 1>we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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<v Speaker 1>Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate

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<v Speaker 1>larger conversations but the Bechdel Test, Yes, what is it?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Caitlyn, I can tell you, as I've said close

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<v Speaker 2>to five hundred times before. Isn't that scared? Anyways, They're Bechdel.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I'm going to fuck it up. The bechel Test

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<v Speaker 2>is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel, often

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<v Speaker 2>called the Bechdel Wallace Test because she co created it

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<v Speaker 2>with her friend Liz Wallace. Originally appeared in Alison Bechdel's

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<v Speaker 2>iconic comic collection Dykes to Watch out For and was

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<v Speaker 2>originally about a more intersectional test than it tends to

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<v Speaker 2>be used, as it was pointing out that women rarely

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<v Speaker 2>speak to each other in movies as a way of

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<v Speaker 2>talking about how queer women are never in movies and

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<v Speaker 2>never have relationships with each other. In any case, it

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<v Speaker 2>was written as a bit and then became a metric

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<v Speaker 2>that people used to this day. The version we used

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<v Speaker 2>to start the discussion is or end the discussion, really

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<v Speaker 2>is we require that there be two characters of a

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<v Speaker 2>marginalized gender with names who talk to each other about

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<v Speaker 2>something other than a man for more than two lines

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<v Speaker 2>of dialogue, and it should be meaningful dialogue. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>if you are the doctor's his wife and you're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about chicken soup with Charlie McClain.

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<v Speaker 1>That may be a.

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<v Speaker 2>Pass wow, but today we are continuing. It's been a

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<v Speaker 2>Billy Wilder year for us. It really is.

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<v Speaker 1>It's true because we just covered Sunset Boulevard not long ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Looks like we will be covering if we haven't already

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<v Speaker 1>by the time this episode gets released. But it's a

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<v Speaker 1>classic movie march on our Matreon and it appears as

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<v Speaker 1>though the two movies that are going to win the

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<v Speaker 1>poll are Singing in the Rain and Billy Wilder's Some

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<v Speaker 1>Like It Hot.

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<v Speaker 2>And today we're covering the Apartment with an incredible guest.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get her in the mix.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's do it. She's a comedian, TV writer, and host

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<v Speaker 1>of the upcoming Jeopardy podcast entitled What Is a Jeopardy Podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>You can also check out her Comedy Central special Ice

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<v Speaker 1>Thickeners and her album Pasta. It's Emily Hiller. Welcome back.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me so excited

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<v Speaker 3>to be talking about this, especially as someone who I think,

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<v Speaker 3>prior to this past year, had seen zero Billy Wilder

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<v Speaker 3>movies and now I think I've seen like five wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's like it's been a Billy Wilder year for

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<v Speaker 3>me too nice.

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<v Speaker 2>What brought it out? It feels like he's back. He's

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<v Speaker 2>with us again.

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<v Speaker 3>What he's not?

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<v Speaker 2>Like he's Jesus, He's back. What threw you into the

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<v Speaker 2>Billy Wilder expanded universe?

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm like, famously not a movie person.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>I should not be here.

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<v Speaker 3>I so it like it kind of takes a lot

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<v Speaker 3>for me to like get into watching movies, but I

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<v Speaker 3>recently sort of decided I want to learn how to

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<v Speaker 3>write a farce movie, and so I just have been

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<v Speaker 3>watching a ton and so I've been getting recommendations for

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<v Speaker 3>people and like working my way through lists, and it

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<v Speaker 3>just so happens that Billy Wilder is like a master

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<v Speaker 3>of that genre also, and so we watch some like

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<v Speaker 3>it hot, we watch Midnight.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I haven't seen that.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so good and so farcy and so wild is

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<v Speaker 3>it Wilder?

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<v Speaker 2>Though? Thank you for taking that. I was like, are

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<v Speaker 2>we going to leave it on the floor?

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<v Speaker 1>No, I'm going to pick it up and put it

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<v Speaker 1>where it belongs.

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<v Speaker 2>They're professional.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like the most complicated farst plot ever, where it's

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<v Speaker 3>like this like woman gambler drifter comes into town and

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<v Speaker 3>sneaks into this high society event and she gets sniffed

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<v Speaker 3>out by this guy who then hires her to seduce

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<v Speaker 3>away the man who is culding him. Whoa, And she's

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<v Speaker 3>pretending to be like a duchess the whole time. And

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<v Speaker 3>meanwhile there is this like taxi driver who has fallen

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<v Speaker 3>in love with her, who's like hunting her down, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's just the it culminates in this like incredible ballroom scene.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just it's really it's really great. But then yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>we also watched Sunset Boulevard and The Apartment was one

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<v Speaker 3>of the ones where it had been kind of recommended

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<v Speaker 3>for the farce list. But it's not a farce. It's

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<v Speaker 3>absolutely not a farce.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it's like, I love how like ambiguous it is

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<v Speaker 2>in genre too, because it like switches a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>different times.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, there are some like real hard cuts between like

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<v Speaker 3>genre scenes too, where you're like it'll go from the

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<v Speaker 3>most dramatic moment of the movie to like one of

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<v Speaker 3>the funniest visuals of the whole thing. But it does

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<v Speaker 3>have like a lot in common with his other like

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<v Speaker 3>farce films or just it's just like the very tight

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<v Speaker 3>writing and the very efficient character intros and stuff like

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<v Speaker 3>he's just so good at that for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm so excited that you've done so many I

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<v Speaker 2>want to much Midnight now, right.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so good. Yeah, it's kind of a b side

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<v Speaker 3>of his Yeah, it was really. It was like one

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<v Speaker 3>of those ones where it was like a bunch of

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<v Speaker 3>the movies on the list, like something like it Hot.

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<v Speaker 3>It was very easy to find where to stream that,

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<v Speaker 3>but Midnight I feel like we ended up watching it

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<v Speaker 3>like streaming on some like weird Russian like YouTube or something,

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<v Speaker 3>so it's harder to track down because I mean the

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<v Speaker 3>ending I don't I think is like maybe not that good.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, it's not like a classic. But yeah, there

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<v Speaker 3>are some others on the list that I can recommend

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<v Speaker 3>as well. But yeah, I'm still watching farce as. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>still enjoying them. But it has gotten me to watch

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<v Speaker 3>more movies, which like, for some reason it needs to

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<v Speaker 3>be part of a series like TV's really easy for

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<v Speaker 3>me because I'm like, I understand where this fits in

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<v Speaker 3>with everything else I'm watching, you know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 3>But for movies, it just feels like, I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>why it's so hard for me to like get hard

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<v Speaker 3>for a movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I love it. I'm like, give me just a

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<v Speaker 1>single isolated story that I don't have to keep watching

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<v Speaker 1>these characters again.

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<v Speaker 2>The things Caitlin has seen in theaters who would turn

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<v Speaker 2>your head around three hundred and sixty years it's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw stump the yard and theaters twice hell yea wow,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and others. But anyway, well, before we talk

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<v Speaker 1>much more about Billy Wilder and the Apartment, tell us

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<v Speaker 1>about your podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm very excited. I'm starting a new podcast with

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<v Speaker 3>my friend John Colin called What Is a Jeopardy Podcast,

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<v Speaker 3>which was sort of born out of the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>like John and I became friends because we are Jeopardy.

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<v Speaker 2>Fans, Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 3>And yeah, it was like I was just like on

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<v Speaker 3>Twitter looking for someone to say something about something that

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<v Speaker 3>was like grinding my gears about a certain Jeopardy contestant,

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<v Speaker 3>and I found John tweeting about it. And we also

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<v Speaker 3>realized that there are no Jeopardy podcasts. There's just the

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<v Speaker 3>official one and that's it.

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<v Speaker 2>Really.

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<v Speaker 3>There are no like good I mean there have been

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<v Speaker 3>like a few that have like no listeners. Wow, burn

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<v Speaker 3>I listened to like one or two of them, and

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<v Speaker 3>they sound like they're being done at gunpoint.

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<v Speaker 2>That is always I'm always, like really delighted to find

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<v Speaker 2>that there are podcasts that still do not exist, and

0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.400
<v Speaker 2>especially because now I get to listen to you talking

0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:21.760
<v Speaker 2>about Jeopardy.

0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.560
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's no comedy podcast about Jeopardy. Forgive me.

0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.640
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong, but work

0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.000
<v Speaker 3>on your pr if that's the case, because I didn't

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:32.520
<v Speaker 3>find you.

0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Come on the show.

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.599
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I'm very excited, especially just because weirdly, Jeopardy

0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 3>has gone through a few changes in the last few years,

0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.720
<v Speaker 3>aside from just like the death of Alex Trebek, which

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.280
<v Speaker 3>led to that like very tumultuous search for a new host,

0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 3>but they also have new executive producers who have been

0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:59.880
<v Speaker 3>developing this like sort of more tournament forward culture there

0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.720
<v Speaker 3>I guess where they're really sort of fostering more like

0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.880
<v Speaker 3>Jeopardy celebs, like personalities who they keep bringing back for

0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 3>various tournaments and stuff, so you get more familiar with

0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.360
<v Speaker 3>the people who are on the show, and it just

0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:14.880
<v Speaker 3>feels like, there is a lot to talk about, and

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.720
<v Speaker 3>we're launching with the start of the Tournament of Champions,

0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:22.240
<v Speaker 3>which was delayed because of the writers strike and is

0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.440
<v Speaker 3>the biggest pool of contestants that they've ever had in

0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.679
<v Speaker 3>the Tournament of Champions. Also, for the first time in

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 3>Jeopardy history, the winner of Celebrity Jeopardy is competing in

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 3>the regular Tournament of Champions.

0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Wait, they're throwing a celebrity out into yeah, among the normies.

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.680
<v Speaker 3>The winner of Celebrity Jeopardy for season thirty nine was

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.760
<v Speaker 3>Ike Barenholtz, and they invited him to compete in the

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:48.840
<v Speaker 3>Tournament of Champions.

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Ike Barenholtz, that skins. Oh yeah, he has the

0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.840
<v Speaker 2>vibe of someone who would excel at Jeopardy. I'm calling

0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:56.560
<v Speaker 2>him a dork.

0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, Well, he had auditioned for Jeopardy before he

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 3>was famous.

0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:02.720
<v Speaker 2>H that's cool.

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.360
<v Speaker 3>So he was like, he trained, he was excited, he

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 3>was ready and yeah. So he's competing and like he's

0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.319
<v Speaker 3>matched up against one of like the top five seeds

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.120
<v Speaker 3>of the season, so he's gonna get his ass handed

0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 3>to him. And it's very exciting, amazing. But it's like

0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 3>the guy who's probably gonna beat him is like one

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.760
<v Speaker 3>of clearly the nicest people who you will ever see

0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:29.840
<v Speaker 3>on Jeopardy. And he's also the guy who helped not

0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 3>scab for the TOC.

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 2>He's like, oh, okay, I was curious because I know

0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:35.560
<v Speaker 2>that that was a huge thing with Jeopardy.

0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it was a huge thing this year where they

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 3>were going to proceed with the Tournament of Champions even

0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.240
<v Speaker 3>as the Jeopardy writers were on strike, and they were

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.240
<v Speaker 3>going to do it using reused clues, so they were

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 3>going to do it without the writers. And ray La Land,

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.240
<v Speaker 3>who is a professional set decorator from Canada, went online

0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 3>and was like, as a union man, I cannot in

0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.760
<v Speaker 3>good conscience compete in the Tournament of Champions if it's

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 3>going to happen without the participation of the Guild writers.

0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.800
<v Speaker 3>And all of the other top seeds of the tournament

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.280
<v Speaker 3>were like, we're with you, ray I love that, and

0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.120
<v Speaker 3>so yeah, it was like a beautiful nerdy snowball that

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.080
<v Speaker 3>really warmed my heart. And that's the guy who's probably

0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.000
<v Speaker 3>gonna kick Ike's ass in the first round.

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Good for him. I hope that, you know. I Barenholtz

0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 2>is like, you know, I mean if you got to

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:28.880
<v Speaker 2>get your ass handed to you by someone. It might

0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 2>as well be a good person.

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.440
<v Speaker 3>Might as well be ray La Land, the sweetest man

0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.560
<v Speaker 3>in Jeopardy history. But yeah, so I'm I'm very excited.

0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.120
<v Speaker 3>Our first episode is going to air the week after

0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.280
<v Speaker 3>the first full week of the Tournament of Champions, so

0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 3>we're going to get right into it. Two very big

0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.120
<v Speaker 3>Jeopardy fans who are not smart enough to be on

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.680
<v Speaker 3>Jeopardy just talking shit about everyone's favorite game show.

0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Love it.

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Hell, yes, Oh, I'm so excited to listen. I also

0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.720
<v Speaker 2>like it's always like when I'm listening to a podcast

0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.480
<v Speaker 2>about a show, I'm always fifty thousand times more likely

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 2>to actually engage with the show and like have a

0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.160
<v Speaker 2>ritual and oh, I'm so excited.

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.560
<v Speaker 3>Oh good. Yeah, we're hoping that it will still be

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 3>like appealing to people who haven't watched every episode from

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.720
<v Speaker 3>the week before. Like it's gonna be fast moving, it's

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.240
<v Speaker 3>gonna be basically covering the games from the week before,

0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 3>but there's always stuff that John catches that I missed,

0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.280
<v Speaker 3>and like hopefully there are things that I catch that

0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 3>John missed, And then there's just like general Jeopardy chat

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 3>and like we end every episode with some like deep

0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.160
<v Speaker 3>dive on one of the topics from Final Jeopardy, just

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.280
<v Speaker 3>so we can learn more about it and hopefully be

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.200
<v Speaker 3>better at trivia in the future. So hopefully there's enough

0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.760
<v Speaker 3>in there even if you aren't like a diehard Jeopardy fan.

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Loveully, I'm excited.

0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:44.480
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much.

0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, back to the Apartment, I guess seamless seamless?

0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, wonderful dismount.

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 2>What is a nineteen sixty movie that was marketed as

0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.240
<v Speaker 2>a comedy but also takes a hard turn in the

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:01.840
<v Speaker 2>second act?

0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.400
<v Speaker 1>What is the Apartment? Anyway? So, Emily, you had not

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:10.880
<v Speaker 1>seen it until pretty recently, is that right?

0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I watched it on Monday, Okay, well there you go.

0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.320
<v Speaker 3>Or Tuesday, Yeah, I watched it very recently. Yes, I

0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.879
<v Speaker 3>watched it this week. I'm very excited to talk about it.

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:21.159
<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the folds.

0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.400
<v Speaker 3>And weirdly, I watched it on Tuesday night and Tuesday

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 3>in the morning, I was like talking to one of

0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:27.600
<v Speaker 3>my coworkers and I was like, how's it going, what

0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 3>did you get up to last night? And he was like,

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.199
<v Speaker 3>I watched The Apartment was so good, And I was

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:34.679
<v Speaker 3>like Oh my gosh, I'm about to watch it.

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:36.840
<v Speaker 1>What a coincidence.

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, something's in the air. Billy Wilder is like, I've

0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.159
<v Speaker 2>been seeing that a lot of my friends are watching

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 2>his stuff on letterbox. I'm like, I don't know what

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.360
<v Speaker 2>it is, but he's back. He's back, He's.

0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:48.119
<v Speaker 1>Back his ghost.

0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 2>I hope the farce is back. I feel like it's

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 2>been a slow push and return to farce appreciation.

0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.160
<v Speaker 3>I have a lot of reason to think that Farce

0:17:58.280 --> 0:17:59.000
<v Speaker 3>is coming back.

0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 2>God that would fucking rock.

0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I hope. So, not to brag or anything, but

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.239
<v Speaker 1>Jamie and I moderated a Q and a panel for

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:12.919
<v Speaker 1>bottoms and bottoms feels very farcy to me.

0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.679
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I've got to see it. I still haven't seen it,

0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.800
<v Speaker 3>but that is a good argument for me to see

0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:18.120
<v Speaker 3>it now.

0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's aesome.

0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 3>One of the things that my you know, not to

0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.919
<v Speaker 3>defer to what a man says, but one of the

0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.680
<v Speaker 3>things that my that my husband said that as we've

0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.159
<v Speaker 3>been talking about Farce just sort of incessantly for the

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.760
<v Speaker 3>last year and a half, is he was like, I

0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 3>feel like the fact that maximalism is so big now

0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.520
<v Speaker 3>means that it is the right time for first to

0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:44.080
<v Speaker 3>come back, because fars movies are about like just so

0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.520
<v Speaker 3>many plots coming in and coming together, like it's things

0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 3>piled on things. But again, this movie is not a farce.

0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.919
<v Speaker 1>Right, But we'll cover more farces in the future on

0:18:55.440 --> 0:19:00.800
<v Speaker 1>the podcasts. We will, Jamie, what is your history with

0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:01.760
<v Speaker 1>The Apartment?

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I have a pretty extensive history with this movie.

0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.000
<v Speaker 2>I know that because we just covered Sunset Boulevard. I

0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:13.640
<v Speaker 2>will glaze over it quickly. But I took a class

0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:20.240
<v Speaker 2>in college bravely called Wilder, Allen and Kaufman, a concept

0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:24.480
<v Speaker 2>that has aged really well across the board. But where,

0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:32.399
<v Speaker 2>oh my cat's here? Where everyone Casper is present? Casper? Okay, listeners.

0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Casper's newer to the mix, so you might be on

0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.000
<v Speaker 2>a first name basis with him, as you are with Flea. However,

0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:44.879
<v Speaker 2>Casper's superpower is that he can watch whole movies with me.

0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:49.840
<v Speaker 2>He can sit motionless for two hours, eyes locked like Casp.

0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.800
<v Speaker 2>I made him a letterboxed account because he is watching it.

0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.840
<v Speaker 2>His system is five stars if he did fall asleep,

0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:05.600
<v Speaker 2>one star if he did And that's his system. But

0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:06.960
<v Speaker 2>we watched The Apartment.

0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.040
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, no, I took a class where there was

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.960
<v Speaker 2>a whole sort of like section. We talked about Billy

0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Wilder movies for a month and I really really loved it.

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 2>The Alan portion of the class I got in trouble

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.600
<v Speaker 2>a couple of times, but the Wilder part was my favorite.

0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.359
<v Speaker 2>I really kind of fell in love with Sunset Boulevard.

0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.520
<v Speaker 2>I really loved the Apartment. I mean we were sort

0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.920
<v Speaker 2>of covering the hits. I wish we had been encouraged

0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:33.080
<v Speaker 2>to watch the b sides. Maybe we were and I

0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.920
<v Speaker 2>was drunk, I don't know, like I was twenty, I

0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:37.280
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:38.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but the.

0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Apartment was one of my favorites that we covered. I

0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:45.520
<v Speaker 2>really loved it. I had never seen a movie quite

0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.679
<v Speaker 2>like it at the time, And yeah, I have watched

0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:53.200
<v Speaker 2>it a couple of times over the years since then,

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:58.240
<v Speaker 2>and it very least cemented my permanent and enduring love

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:04.679
<v Speaker 2>of Shirley maclain. Just such a rare, wonderful like every

0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.480
<v Speaker 2>era of her career is unbelievable.

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.720
<v Speaker 3>I mean, especially for me, who, like, for the first

0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.360
<v Speaker 3>thirty years of my life, the only thing I knew

0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:17.840
<v Speaker 3>about Shirley McLain I knew from the Animaniacs opening theme

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:22.480
<v Speaker 3>songs that she maybe uses a crystal ball that was

0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.960
<v Speaker 3>all about her that for many years, it's still the

0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.359
<v Speaker 3>first thing I think about when I hear her name,

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.399
<v Speaker 3>because I was just the exact right age for the

0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 3>animaniacs to imprint on me that same Shirley McLain was

0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.320
<v Speaker 3>like a woo woo psychic god bless.

0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I remember that now, but I haven't thought about that

0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:46.080
<v Speaker 2>in like twenty years. That's so before college. I wasn't

0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:48.920
<v Speaker 2>familiar with anything she had done when she was younger.

0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.720
<v Speaker 2>And she's incredible in this movie. I really love. I

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.119
<v Speaker 2>feel like, for its time, it's doing so many things

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.000
<v Speaker 2>that no movies are doing, which is how I feel

0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:01.639
<v Speaker 2>about most Billy Wilder movies. And yeah, I really enjoyed

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.399
<v Speaker 2>this movie. I was really excited that you wanted to

0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.639
<v Speaker 2>revisit it with us, And there's so much to talk about.

0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.959
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's stuff that this movie does that feels

0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:12.920
<v Speaker 2>very dated, but there's a lot of stuff this movie

0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.920
<v Speaker 2>does that I feel like rarely shows up in movies.

0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Now it's wild It's Wilder, we have to do that.

0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:23.000
<v Speaker 3>Every time we do.

0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.879
<v Speaker 1>Or or Billy Wilder's ghost who is just haunting the

0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:30.639
<v Speaker 1>world and compelling us to watch all of his movies

0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:32.440
<v Speaker 1>will kill us.

0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:37.359
<v Speaker 2>He's so back. Yeah, it's true. We are being haunted

0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.959
<v Speaker 2>by Billy Wilder's ghost. That's just like a new marketing

0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.280
<v Speaker 2>thing we're trying. Long story short, I really love and

0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.080
<v Speaker 2>appreciate this movie. Can't Live was your history with The Apartment?

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.919
<v Speaker 1>I had only seen it once before in my span

0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:55.040
<v Speaker 1>of the two or three years where I was in

0:22:55.359 --> 0:23:00.600
<v Speaker 1>undergrad getting my first of many degrees in film. I

0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:02.879
<v Speaker 1>don't talk about it as much because it's not nearly

0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.600
<v Speaker 1>as impressive as my master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University.

0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.720
<v Speaker 1>It is exceptional, thank you so much.

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Never done anything like it.

0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 1>In any case. When I was in undergrad, I took

0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:19.359
<v Speaker 1>it upon myself to just try to watch basically every

0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:22.520
<v Speaker 1>movie that was ever referenced in any of my textbooks

0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.600
<v Speaker 1>or just that had any historical significance. So I would

0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:28.359
<v Speaker 1>watch like three movies a day. I don't know how

0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:31.400
<v Speaker 1>I managed it, because these days it takes me three

0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:35.760
<v Speaker 1>days to watch a movie. And so I watched The Apartment,

0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 1>and it's not my favorite among Billy Wilder's OOVRA. I

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:46.600
<v Speaker 1>think it's because I find Jack Lemon's character to be

0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:54.359
<v Speaker 1>a spineless pooh poo head wow, get his ass, I will.

0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:59.040
<v Speaker 1>I just he rubbed me the wrong way. And I

0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:02.439
<v Speaker 1>love Shirley McLay, but her character, I just wish she

0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.240
<v Speaker 1>was more active or just was given the opportunity to

0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.680
<v Speaker 1>be more active in this movie. There were things about

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:10.760
<v Speaker 1>it that didn't appeal to my sensibilities very much. So

0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:12.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it's a good movie, and I think it's

0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:16.720
<v Speaker 1>well written in everything. But if I have to choose

0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:19.000
<v Speaker 1>a movie that I want that I'm gonna have a

0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:23.399
<v Speaker 1>fun time watching, it's probably not going to be The Apartment. Sorry.

0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, to be fair, I don't think anyone's coming to

0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:28.280
<v Speaker 2>this movie for a fun time necessarily.

0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.

0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:32.920
<v Speaker 3>It's chocolate Block with characters where you're like you want

0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:34.639
<v Speaker 3>to grab them by the shoulders and shake them and

0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:35.800
<v Speaker 3>be like what are you doing?

0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, CC In particular, you're just like, oh my god,

0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:44.439
<v Speaker 2>we are still caping for like mister Pep at this

0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:47.160
<v Speaker 2>late hour in the movie, we're still like, well, maybe

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:48.320
<v Speaker 2>mister Pep is a good guy.

0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:51.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, CC Baxter more like Pep Baxter.

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.640
<v Speaker 2>See, I wouldn't go that far. I don't hate CEC.

0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 2>I like CC. I feel like he grows a lot.

0:24:56.840 --> 0:24:59.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that the end line of the movie

0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:03.159
<v Speaker 2>is good. The ending of the movie is very movie.

0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:03.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:05.040
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk about it.

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:09.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's sort of like it belongs in the sort

0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:14.680
<v Speaker 3>of like historical canon of the like nice guy protagonists

0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:18.920
<v Speaker 3>like nice Guy are slash nice guys.

0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:19.320
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:23.960
<v Speaker 3>But I felt like it was weirdly like a better

0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:27.600
<v Speaker 3>take on that than like even more modern films like

0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:30.080
<v Speaker 3>you root for him more than you do for like

0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:31.520
<v Speaker 3>Ducky from.

0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Like Yes, I was thinking about Pretty in Pink a

0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:38.280
<v Speaker 2>lot during this movie. Okay, I mean, I guess partially

0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:43.200
<v Speaker 2>just because this movie is now my dad's age, dosing

0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:49.960
<v Speaker 2>him much like CC docs and stocks fran Oh god. Yeah,

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:52.240
<v Speaker 2>So I mean it's like old and it's hard to

0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:55.359
<v Speaker 2>not watch this movie by like not comparing it to

0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:58.679
<v Speaker 2>other movies. But yeah, I feel like CC is at

0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:01.760
<v Speaker 2>least a more well. He is deeply imperfect, and I

0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:03.919
<v Speaker 2>feel like let off the hook for things that a

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:07.359
<v Speaker 2>modern good movie would not let him off the hook for.

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:12.240
<v Speaker 2>I still think he's like doing laps around the quote

0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:16.919
<v Speaker 2>unquote underdog loser characters of the eighties who are like,

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:20.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, Revenge of the nerds, like murdering and assaulting

0:26:20.840 --> 0:26:24.879
<v Speaker 2>women and still coming out on top where it's a

0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:25.960
<v Speaker 2>bad yardstick.

0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:28.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you get the feeling that he doesn't feel as

0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:32.879
<v Speaker 3>entitled to anything like Yeah, he still wants it to

0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.399
<v Speaker 3>go a different way, but it feels like he takes

0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:38.520
<v Speaker 3>no for an answer a little bit better than other

0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:43.040
<v Speaker 3>movie characters. Still not as well as he should but better. Yeah.

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:43.479
<v Speaker 1>Better.

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:46.399
<v Speaker 2>We'll get into CC.

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:49.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's so much to talk I mean, this movie

0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:52.919
<v Speaker 2>has shades of gray that are like challenging in ways

0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:54.600
<v Speaker 2>that I'm like, I don't know if they were intended

0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:56.800
<v Speaker 2>to be challenging at the time, but I'm excited to

0:26:56.840 --> 0:26:57.479
<v Speaker 2>talk about it.

0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So let's take a quick break and then we'll

0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:15.840
<v Speaker 1>come back for the recap. And we're back, okay, So

0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.639
<v Speaker 1>here is the recap for the Apartment. I will place

0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:25.080
<v Speaker 1>a content warning at the top here for suicide. So

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:29.479
<v Speaker 1>we are in New York City. Ever heard of it?

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.320
<v Speaker 1>And it's about the same time that the movie came out.

0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:36.040
<v Speaker 1>The movie came out in nineteen sixty I think the

0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:39.239
<v Speaker 1>movie takes place in late nineteen fifty nine. We are

0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 1>getting voiceover from C. C. Baxter play by Jack Lemon.

0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:48.040
<v Speaker 1>He works at a large insurance company, and he often

0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:51.159
<v Speaker 1>stays late at the office until it's all right for

0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:56.720
<v Speaker 1>him to go home because he rents out his apartment

0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:02.160
<v Speaker 1>the titular apartment too, and then from his company who

0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:06.919
<v Speaker 1>are having extramarital affairs and who need a discreete place

0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:08.520
<v Speaker 1>to fuck.

0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:09.000
<v Speaker 5>Right.

0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:14.119
<v Speaker 2>But he's kind of like renting for aspirational cloud, Like

0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:18.359
<v Speaker 2>he is not charging for this service, right while he

0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:24.080
<v Speaker 2>is fully stocking, like he's providing the services of the Marriotte,

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:28.160
<v Speaker 2>but he is not being paid. It seems like he's

0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:31.040
<v Speaker 2>working ahead a loss. It's like doing stand up comedy, right.

0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:35.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's sort of the rotisserie chicken at Costco where

0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:37.320
<v Speaker 3>you're like, it's a lost leader, but it gets people

0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 3>in the door, exactly same with the hot dogs.

0:28:41.440 --> 0:28:44.960
<v Speaker 1>I was curious if he was charging or what. But

0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:48.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm also like, I don't think so. These men are

0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:53.640
<v Speaker 1>all higher above him in this like hierarchy at the office.

0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:56.480
<v Speaker 1>They presumably get paid better. They're like, you know, middle

0:28:56.520 --> 0:28:58.960
<v Speaker 1>or up or management. Why don't they just like go

0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:03.200
<v Speaker 1>split se on an apartment that they would have more

0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:06.760
<v Speaker 1>easy access to. I don't know. I had some logistical questions.

0:29:06.960 --> 0:29:09.600
<v Speaker 3>I was thinking about that the whole movie, and I

0:29:09.640 --> 0:29:13.479
<v Speaker 3>think it really it ultimately boils down to the fact that, like,

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:18.320
<v Speaker 3>it probably just started with one guy and then it snowballed. Yeah,

0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:21.160
<v Speaker 3>So I think at if the movie took place over

0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 3>a longer period of time, we'd eventually get to the

0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:25.000
<v Speaker 3>point where it's like, you guys, just get your own place,

0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:28.040
<v Speaker 3>you know, seriously, But we're at a moment in this

0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 3>guy's life where it has just sort of gotten a

0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:34.200
<v Speaker 3>little out of control, and it was maybe a more

0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:36.000
<v Speaker 3>manageable number of people before.

0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:38.880
<v Speaker 2>I was wondering about that, and I was also like,

0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think probably ultimately the apartment thing is

0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.560
<v Speaker 2>just a you know, a movie thing to keep you

0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:50.520
<v Speaker 2>in the story. But logistically, yeah, logistically it's troubling, and

0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:51.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, are we.

0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 6>To believe, which I do believe that all of these

0:29:55.240 --> 0:30:00.320
<v Speaker 6>upper executives are like not firing enough sign aps to

0:30:00.400 --> 0:30:03.800
<v Speaker 6>understand that they should all share a spot if this

0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 6>is the case, And.

0:30:05.560 --> 0:30:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Also that CC probably wouldn't point that out to them

0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:13.440
<v Speaker 2>because he wants to be promoted, and that's like his

0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 2>whole journey is that it takes him so deep in

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the movie to give up this idea of professional advancement

0:30:20.760 --> 0:30:25.000
<v Speaker 2>regardless of like who gets hurt or deceived along the way.

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:27.719
<v Speaker 2>They should just all rent an apartment, Like it seems

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:28.760
<v Speaker 2>like they can afford it.

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:30.280
<v Speaker 1>That's what I kept thinking.

0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:33.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I guess I was like location is everything

0:30:33.480 --> 0:30:34.160
<v Speaker 2>or something?

0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:38.880
<v Speaker 1>Right, the apartment is one of the characters.

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, I do think that they are also probably I

0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:43.560
<v Speaker 3>don't know if it was explicit or not, but like

0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:47.840
<v Speaker 3>some of these men do sort of pretend like like

0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:51.280
<v Speaker 3>it's their apartment. Yes, that too, Like there is an

0:30:51.280 --> 0:30:53.880
<v Speaker 3>amount of deception there are, Like I think some of

0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:57.000
<v Speaker 3>the women who end up there are people for whom,

0:30:57.120 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 3>like going to a hotel would maybe raise alarm bells

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 3>that these guys don't want to raise.

0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:02.680
<v Speaker 1>True, right, I was wondering.

0:31:02.720 --> 0:31:04.960
<v Speaker 2>I was like credit card statements? Was that a thing

0:31:05.280 --> 0:31:09.400
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixteen? Credit cards?

0:31:10.160 --> 0:31:12.800
<v Speaker 3>Their wives would not get to see what they were

0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:15.080
<v Speaker 3>spending their money on, like that part of it where

0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:16.800
<v Speaker 3>I was like, no, that would they would very easily

0:31:16.840 --> 0:31:17.560
<v Speaker 3>be able to do that.

0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:22.600
<v Speaker 1>But in any case, so we've got the sex apartment

0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:26.720
<v Speaker 1>that CC Baxter is like borrowing out, not even renting

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:33.320
<v Speaker 1>out his neighbors, including a doctor. Dreyfus are always like, hey, Baxter,

0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 1>what's going on in there? It sounds like you're constantly

0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:40.600
<v Speaker 1>fucking you sneaky little slut.

0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 2>And he's also like that's me. He's like, yep, mister

0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:51.360
<v Speaker 2>fuck I thought that was a really funny runner. I

0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:54.160
<v Speaker 2>mean it is. It ties into like the greater thieves

0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 2>of masculinity that surround this movie, but the fact that

0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.640
<v Speaker 2>he at every opportunity even when it gets you know,

0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:02.280
<v Speaker 2>in sometime he's being valiant about it, but other times

0:32:02.280 --> 0:32:05.080
<v Speaker 2>it's like he doesn't mind being thought of as mister

0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:06.640
<v Speaker 2>fuck right.

0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, okay. So then Baxter arrives home after one

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:18.080
<v Speaker 1>such night where he has let a guy use his apartment.

0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:22.520
<v Speaker 1>In this case, it's Al Kirkby, someone from upper management

0:32:22.640 --> 0:32:26.960
<v Speaker 1>at his company, and Kirkaby is like, yeah, I'll put

0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:30.000
<v Speaker 1>in a good word for you for this possible promotion.

0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:34.320
<v Speaker 1>Later that night, another guy who Baxter works with this

0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:38.320
<v Speaker 1>is mister Dobish, calls and he's like, hey, I met

0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:41.040
<v Speaker 1>this woman who looks like Marilyn Monroe and I need

0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:44.040
<v Speaker 1>to fuck her immediately, get out of bed, even though

0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:46.960
<v Speaker 1>it's eleven o'clock, and let me use your apartment.

0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Right, which is like a winky nod to the fact

0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.080
<v Speaker 2>that Billy Wildser just worked with Marilyn Monroe the previous

0:32:53.160 --> 0:32:57.000
<v Speaker 2>year and some like get hot and also seven year itch.

0:32:57.000 --> 0:32:58.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't know when the seven year itch came out.

0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:01.400
<v Speaker 1>I think it was before this could be anything.

0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:04.480
<v Speaker 2>I think it was the fifties. Anyways, like it would

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:08.040
<v Speaker 2>seem more misogynousts than it is if you didn't know

0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:10.320
<v Speaker 2>that they had this working relationship.

0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:14.280
<v Speaker 1>True in any case, Baxter gets out of bed, he

0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 1>goes and waits outside, but mister Dobish leaves the wrong

0:33:20.000 --> 0:33:22.960
<v Speaker 1>key after he leaves, so Baxter can't get back into

0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:26.320
<v Speaker 1>his apartment, and he catches a cold. So the next

0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:31.120
<v Speaker 1>day at work, he's like all sniffily and he chats

0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 1>to the elevator operator fran Kubilick played by Shirley maclain,

0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:40.760
<v Speaker 1>and they're talking about colds, and it's like kind of flirty,

0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:42.880
<v Speaker 1>or at least he's trying to be flirty with her.

0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 2>It's flirty, it's friendy. I feel like he is like

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:51.320
<v Speaker 2>many men before him, and people of all genders, but

0:33:51.520 --> 0:33:56.800
<v Speaker 2>I will single out men in this regard, interpreting friendly behavior.

0:33:56.440 --> 0:33:58.600
<v Speaker 1>As romantic interest.

0:33:58.440 --> 0:33:59.440
<v Speaker 2>She's obsessed with me.

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:04.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, that does tend to happen, doesn't it. And

0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:09.080
<v Speaker 1>then Al Kirkaby, the guy from the night before, is like, oh, Baxter,

0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:12.120
<v Speaker 1>I saw you talking to miss Kouba. Look, I'd like

0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:16.000
<v Speaker 1>to take her out, but she always refuses my advances

0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:18.960
<v Speaker 1>for some reason. And it's like, yeah, maybe because you

0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:20.759
<v Speaker 1>regularly assault her.

0:34:20.880 --> 0:34:24.400
<v Speaker 2>We just saw you assault her. Yeah.

0:34:24.440 --> 0:34:30.840
<v Speaker 1>So then Baxter cancels the sex appointment that night for

0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:33.239
<v Speaker 1>this other guy because he wents to stay home and

0:34:33.320 --> 0:34:36.919
<v Speaker 1>rest because of his cold. So he has to make

0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:40.960
<v Speaker 1>all these adjustments with the sex apartment schedule to shift

0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:44.520
<v Speaker 1>people around, and then he gets called to the office

0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:50.560
<v Speaker 1>of mister Sheldrake played by Fred McMurray, who we talked

0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:55.319
<v Speaker 1>about in the Double Indemnity episode. Oh yes, yes, in

0:34:55.360 --> 0:34:57.719
<v Speaker 1>any case. So he's the head of personnel at the

0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:02.600
<v Speaker 1>insurance company, and Baxter's like, Hm, is this about my

0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:07.920
<v Speaker 1>promotion that's been floated? And then mister Sheldrake is like,

0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:12.840
<v Speaker 1>I know all about your little arrangement with your sex apartment,

0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:14.799
<v Speaker 1>and I want in on it too.

0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:17.839
<v Speaker 2>He's a dog. I think that one of the great

0:35:17.920 --> 0:35:21.560
<v Speaker 2>bait and switches this movie does is like, really, expose

0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 2>mister Sheldrike for how slick he thinks he is versus

0:35:26.680 --> 0:35:29.680
<v Speaker 2>how slick he actually is, where he's like, I'm not

0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:34.120
<v Speaker 2>like the other men that have no respect for my wife.

0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:37.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm built different and like he isn't And the movie

0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:40.240
<v Speaker 2>knows that. And I think the way that that rolls

0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:41.920
<v Speaker 2>out is really smart.

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:46.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they really misdirect what his feelings are going to

0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:48.799
<v Speaker 3>be about the apartment, Like you feel like he's in

0:35:48.880 --> 0:35:52.359
<v Speaker 3>trouble at first for what he's doing, which sets him

0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:55.759
<v Speaker 3>up as a person with like integrity even though he's

0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:58.600
<v Speaker 3>immediately about to be like I also want it right,

0:35:58.719 --> 0:35:59.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah right.

0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's clear that he thinks he's better than

0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:07.800
<v Speaker 2>the other men, who are also like deceiving both. I

0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:09.480
<v Speaker 2>feel like this movie does a good job of the

0:36:09.520 --> 0:36:16.080
<v Speaker 2>twohander like deceiving their their wives and also deceiving the

0:36:16.200 --> 0:36:20.359
<v Speaker 2>women that they are with by just lying out their

0:36:20.400 --> 0:36:23.520
<v Speaker 2>asses all the time. True, but shell Drake kind of

0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:25.839
<v Speaker 2>the worst of all because he thinks he's smart. At

0:36:25.880 --> 0:36:30.760
<v Speaker 2>least the other guys don't seem to be suffering that delution.

0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:34.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's hard to tell. We don't get to know them.

0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Very well, but their comic relief.

0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right. So then Baxter catches on and he gives

0:36:41.160 --> 0:36:45.880
<v Speaker 1>shell Drake the key for that night in exchange for

0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:51.279
<v Speaker 1>two tickets to see The Music Man. So Baxter is like, hey,

0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:53.840
<v Speaker 1>miss Kuberlic, do you want to go with me to

0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:58.880
<v Speaker 1>the play? And she agrees to meet him there, but

0:36:59.160 --> 0:37:02.200
<v Speaker 1>first she's like, I have to go meet an old

0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:05.279
<v Speaker 1>boyfriend for a drink. And it turns out to be

0:37:06.000 --> 0:37:09.279
<v Speaker 1>mister shell Drake, who she had had an affair with

0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:14.400
<v Speaker 1>over this summer. But again, he's married, and it seems

0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:16.880
<v Speaker 1>pretty clear that that relationship was never going to go

0:37:16.880 --> 0:37:20.359
<v Speaker 1>anywhere between Fran and shell Drake, but he's also trying

0:37:20.360 --> 0:37:24.120
<v Speaker 1>to rekindle things and he's like, no, I am gonna

0:37:24.160 --> 0:37:29.200
<v Speaker 1>divorce my wife actually, And Fran still loves him and

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:31.800
<v Speaker 1>she wants to spend time with him, so she bails

0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 1>on the date with Baxter to see the Music Man,

0:37:34.719 --> 0:37:38.680
<v Speaker 1>and she goes off with shell Drake two Baxter's apartment,

0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:44.359
<v Speaker 1>not knowing it's Baxter's apartment. We cut to Baxter being

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:48.239
<v Speaker 1>stood up at the theater and he's all sad and

0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:52.200
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't know either that you know, Fran is at

0:37:52.239 --> 0:37:53.759
<v Speaker 1>his apartment with another man.

0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:56.319
<v Speaker 2>You know it's the worst. I had this sort of

0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:59.680
<v Speaker 2>instinct like when have you ever been watching TV? And

0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:02.879
<v Speaker 2>then you do the very like annoying modern thing where

0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:06.520
<v Speaker 2>you like swipe at something that cannot be swiped at,

0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 2>be like next thing. I was like, she should have

0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:16.600
<v Speaker 2>texted him, And I was like, now, hold on, my

0:38:16.719 --> 0:38:21.640
<v Speaker 2>father is an infant, Like there is no way for

0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:24.200
<v Speaker 2>her to reach out. Never mind.

0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:30.600
<v Speaker 1>It's true. So then at work, Baxter has gotten his

0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:34.399
<v Speaker 1>promotion that he's been promised, and he moves into his

0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:38.480
<v Speaker 1>own office, but he also starts kind of withholding access

0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:43.040
<v Speaker 1>to the sex apartment for those like four men who

0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:47.720
<v Speaker 1>helped him get the promotion, and he's withholding this access

0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:51.560
<v Speaker 1>to everyone except for mister Sheldrake. There's this scene where

0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Baxter's like, hey, Sheldrake, I think your lady friend left

0:38:55.960 --> 0:39:00.480
<v Speaker 1>this broken compact mirror at my apartment.

0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:05.480
<v Speaker 2>And Chekhov's broken compact mirror. That is exactly and also

0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:08.719
<v Speaker 2>it doubles as a little metaphor for the state of

0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 2>the human condition. Hello what I'm cheering, and that.

0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:18.880
<v Speaker 3>She probably considers herself permanently damaged by this relationship in

0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:20.240
<v Speaker 3>a way that cannot be repaired.

0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I was like, Wow, that's the moment Billy Wilder

0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:29.000
<v Speaker 2>won his oscar for this one broken mirror to represent

0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:34.160
<v Speaker 2>damaged character. Boom, what what critics are calling it subtle?

0:39:34.680 --> 0:39:39.880
<v Speaker 2>It's wild it's wilder, It's really wilder.

0:39:40.239 --> 0:39:46.759
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So Baxter doesn't know that shel Drake's lady love

0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:52.200
<v Speaker 1>is Fran still until the holiday party a few weeks later,

0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:56.520
<v Speaker 1>where Fran lends Baxter the same broken mirror so that

0:39:56.600 --> 0:40:01.280
<v Speaker 1>he can look at his ugly bowler hat. Got sorry

0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:01.839
<v Speaker 1>about it.

0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:07.160
<v Speaker 3>That bowler hat really cracked me up. He's like, I'm

0:40:07.160 --> 0:40:09.200
<v Speaker 3>a big shot. Now check out my new hat. And

0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:11.920
<v Speaker 3>it's like, you look like Charlie Chaplin.

0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:16.879
<v Speaker 2>Now, yeah, yeah, I wrote down red flag there when

0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:19.120
<v Speaker 2>a guy gets really drunk, He's like, check out this

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:20.520
<v Speaker 2>cool hat I bought.

0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:23.400
<v Speaker 1>Should we go out run away?

0:40:23.840 --> 0:40:28.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? No, is like a sign of hubris to be

0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:30.759
<v Speaker 3>like I'm trying a new kind of hat. It's a

0:40:30.800 --> 0:40:33.920
<v Speaker 3>sign that the character is like on a decline morally.

0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:39.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's gotta like let someone else fix him and

0:40:39.440 --> 0:40:42.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, circle back in a couple of years see

0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:42.720
<v Speaker 2>how he's doing.

0:40:43.080 --> 0:40:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. But Baxter sees the broken mirror that

0:40:46.680 --> 0:40:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Fran has and he puts two and two together. Meanwhile,

0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Fran is very sad because mister Sheldrake's secretary just told

0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Fran about the several other women who he has had

0:41:00.160 --> 0:41:04.200
<v Speaker 1>affairs with over the years and who he has lied

0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:09.560
<v Speaker 1>to about how he's going to divorce his wife for them,

0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:13.640
<v Speaker 1>so Fran is really upset. Baxter is really upset because

0:41:14.560 --> 0:41:19.280
<v Speaker 1>his crush is sleeping with his boss, so he leaves

0:41:19.360 --> 0:41:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the party and he goes to a bar and gets

0:41:22.160 --> 0:41:26.480
<v Speaker 1>super drunk. Meanwhile, at Baxter's apartment, Fran is there with

0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:30.200
<v Speaker 1>shel Drake and she's crying because of his shitty behavior.

0:41:30.640 --> 0:41:32.920
<v Speaker 1>He has to leave to catch a train to be

0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:38.080
<v Speaker 1>with his wife, and Fran stays behind. We kind of

0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:41.320
<v Speaker 1>cut back to Baxter, who's coming back to his apartment

0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:44.600
<v Speaker 1>with a woman he met at the bar. He discovers

0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Fran in bed. She has taken a lot of sleeping

0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:51.719
<v Speaker 1>pills and she's not waking up, so Baxter panics. He

0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:55.040
<v Speaker 1>goes and calls the doctor neighbor over to his apartment.

0:41:55.800 --> 0:42:01.400
<v Speaker 1>The doctor saves Fran's life, and Baxter calls shell Drake

0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.440
<v Speaker 1>and tells him about the incident, but shell Drake doesn't

0:42:04.480 --> 0:42:07.480
<v Speaker 1>really want to be bothered with it, especially it's Christmas Day,

0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:12.520
<v Speaker 1>spending the day with his family, And finally Fran wakes

0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:16.160
<v Speaker 1>up and Baxter tends to her. He gets her fed,

0:42:16.640 --> 0:42:21.200
<v Speaker 1>they play cards together, but she still feels awful, both

0:42:21.239 --> 0:42:25.640
<v Speaker 1>physically and emotionally, and she's still in love with and

0:42:25.719 --> 0:42:30.960
<v Speaker 1>heartbroken over shell Drake. Meanwhile, Fran's family is worried because

0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:34.160
<v Speaker 1>they haven't seen or heard from her in a couple days.

0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Which I'm like, that's one of the things with me.

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:40.240
<v Speaker 2>For Baxter, I'm just like, you gotta like I understand.

0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:44.319
<v Speaker 2>He's like, well, you know, don't call people while you

0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:47.080
<v Speaker 2>are like before you kind of get your head back

0:42:47.120 --> 0:42:49.759
<v Speaker 2>on straight sort of. But then at some point it's

0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:53.640
<v Speaker 2>starting to like before her brother in law arrives and

0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:56.560
<v Speaker 2>he sucks as well, but like before her brother in

0:42:56.640 --> 0:43:01.160
<v Speaker 2>law rise, it's starting to feel somewhat hostile. Yes, where

0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:06.280
<v Speaker 2>it feels like like a baby it's cold outside style hostage. Yeah,

0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:11.160
<v Speaker 2>where he's like, well, you know, you're not quite ready.

0:43:11.440 --> 0:43:14.040
<v Speaker 3>I mean he's covering Sheldrake's ass, like exactly.

0:43:14.120 --> 0:43:14.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:17.840
<v Speaker 3>He knows that the discretion of the situation will affect

0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:21.319
<v Speaker 3>his relationship with Sheldrake, so it's not purely like him

0:43:21.400 --> 0:43:23.160
<v Speaker 3>taking care of her. It's him being like, I have

0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:25.040
<v Speaker 3>to keep her quiet about this.

0:43:25.520 --> 0:43:29.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I kind of On this watch it was like, Wow,

0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Baxter is like a cad deeper into this movie than

0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:33.960
<v Speaker 2>I remembered.

0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:38.719
<v Speaker 1>That's why I don't like him very much anyway, So

0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:41.760
<v Speaker 1>her family's worried about her. Her brother in law, Carl,

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.480
<v Speaker 1>finds out where Fran is and he shows up at

0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Baxter's apartment assumes that Baxter is a sleazy guy who's

0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:52.080
<v Speaker 1>taking advantage of Fran, which isn't exactly right, but you know,

0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Baxter is no saint in this situation and any case,

0:43:56.320 --> 0:44:00.719
<v Speaker 1>Carl punches Baxter and takes Fran home, and Baxter is

0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:05.560
<v Speaker 1>all like, damn, I'm in love with Fran. So the

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:09.040
<v Speaker 1>next day he goes to work prepared to confront shell

0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Drake and tell him that he should forget about Fran

0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:15.799
<v Speaker 1>because Baxter wants to be with her. But shell Drake

0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:20.160
<v Speaker 1>is like, actually, my wife left me because she found

0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:23.640
<v Speaker 1>out about all my affairs, So I'm going to be

0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:27.040
<v Speaker 1>with Fran. By the way, here's another big promotion for

0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:28.000
<v Speaker 1>all your trouble.

0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:31.759
<v Speaker 2>This scene is so fucked in, so many different directions

0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:35.720
<v Speaker 2>that it's wild but like it's wilder, wilder. I'm sorry, sorry,

0:44:35.800 --> 0:44:39.440
<v Speaker 2>it's wilder, but yeah, I mean particularly, I was like

0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:43.040
<v Speaker 2>sort of surprised by the sort of like nakedness that

0:44:43.719 --> 0:44:48.880
<v Speaker 2>mister Sheldrake presents, like, well, obviously, if I'm alone, I

0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:54.560
<v Speaker 2>will die, so because I've been rejected by someone rightfully,

0:44:55.000 --> 0:44:58.920
<v Speaker 2>I must enter this new relationship under false pretenses, and

0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:02.880
<v Speaker 2>like he just presents it like of course, of course said.

0:45:02.719 --> 0:45:03.480
<v Speaker 3>It's gonna happen.

0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:04.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:45:04.160 --> 0:45:06.839
<v Speaker 3>What I really appreciated about this scene too, is that,

0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:11.360
<v Speaker 3>like you get into it with watching CC practicing the

0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:15.120
<v Speaker 3>speech she's gonna give to Sheldrake of like, I'll take

0:45:15.120 --> 0:45:17.799
<v Speaker 3>her off your hands for you. And whenever you see

0:45:17.840 --> 0:45:20.239
<v Speaker 3>someone practicing a speech they're about to give, you know

0:45:20.280 --> 0:45:23.200
<v Speaker 3>that they're not going to successfully give the speech, right,

0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:26.920
<v Speaker 3>good trope, and so you kind of watch that being like, Okay,

0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:28.560
<v Speaker 3>I get it, we're not going to hear this, like,

0:45:28.760 --> 0:45:31.440
<v Speaker 3>but then you do hear the speech, it's just that

0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:34.000
<v Speaker 3>shell Drake says the exact same words. He's like, I'll

0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:36.239
<v Speaker 3>take her off your hands, And I thought that that

0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:40.920
<v Speaker 3>was like an impressive way of like subverting that trope

0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:44.160
<v Speaker 3>to make it feel new, and I was just like, wow,

0:45:44.239 --> 0:45:47.080
<v Speaker 3>that's really skillful, because I was kind of rolling my eyes.

0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and no, I'm not anymore.

0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:52.719
<v Speaker 2>Totally, I mean, and I feel like it gets at

0:45:52.760 --> 0:45:55.719
<v Speaker 2>something that I think this movie's doing really well, which

0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:58.919
<v Speaker 2>is like drawing your attention to the fact that they

0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:04.000
<v Speaker 2>both view her as meat. But yeah, they view themselves

0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:06.880
<v Speaker 2>somewhat differently. They both think that they're ultimately good people,

0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:11.520
<v Speaker 2>and neither of them are consulting with the woman that

0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.120
<v Speaker 2>they are laying claim to, like she is property in

0:46:14.239 --> 0:46:17.080
<v Speaker 2>both of their eyes, and both of them think, well,

0:46:17.120 --> 0:46:19.960
<v Speaker 2>the way that I view her as property is good.

0:46:20.239 --> 0:46:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, which is obviously a major reflection of the

0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:28.399
<v Speaker 1>mentality of the time and how women were viewed by

0:46:28.520 --> 0:46:34.520
<v Speaker 1>most men. Totally, but it's frustrating to watch. Nonetheless. Anyway,

0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Baxter takes the promotion that shell Drake offers, but sometime later,

0:46:39.840 --> 0:46:43.120
<v Speaker 1>Baxter bumps into Fran at work. She's gotten back together

0:46:43.160 --> 0:46:46.880
<v Speaker 1>with shell Drake, who is making arrangements to divorce his

0:46:46.960 --> 0:46:54.040
<v Speaker 1>wife and to marry Fran allegedly, and Baxter's like, oh, yeah,

0:46:54.120 --> 0:46:56.759
<v Speaker 1>I was just using shell Drake this whole time to

0:46:56.800 --> 0:46:59.799
<v Speaker 1>get a promotion, I don't even care about you being

0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.040
<v Speaker 1>with shell Drake, and also I have a big date tonight.

0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:06.160
<v Speaker 1>We find out he's lying about all of this. Then

0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:09.759
<v Speaker 1>there's a conversation between Baxter and shell Drake where shell

0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:12.879
<v Speaker 1>Drake wants to borrow the key to Baxter's apartment again

0:47:12.960 --> 0:47:16.719
<v Speaker 1>so he can take Fran there. But Baxter has finally

0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:21.600
<v Speaker 1>had enough so he quits. He goes home and packs

0:47:21.680 --> 0:47:25.839
<v Speaker 1>up the apartment. He doesn't know what he's gonna do,

0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:27.560
<v Speaker 1>but he just knows he has to get out of

0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:31.399
<v Speaker 1>this place. Meanwhile, Fran is at a New Year's Eve

0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:35.680
<v Speaker 1>celebration with shell Drake, and he's all like, we're gonna

0:47:35.680 --> 0:47:38.800
<v Speaker 1>go to Atlantic City to go to a hotel tonight

0:47:38.880 --> 0:47:41.600
<v Speaker 1>because Baxter won't even give me the key to his

0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:45.840
<v Speaker 1>apartment anymore, especially if I'm taking you there the apartment

0:47:46.000 --> 0:47:49.439
<v Speaker 1>his the apartment. And she's like, wait a minute, does

0:47:49.440 --> 0:47:53.840
<v Speaker 1>that mean that Baxter loves me? So she runs through

0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:56.480
<v Speaker 1>the streets as everyone is ringing in the New Year,

0:47:56.680 --> 0:48:00.399
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, okay. When Harry met Sally certain saw

0:48:00.400 --> 0:48:05.560
<v Speaker 1>this movie and has some homage to pay. And Fran

0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:08.759
<v Speaker 1>goes to Baxter's apartment and he's like, Wow, I'm so

0:48:08.800 --> 0:48:11.760
<v Speaker 1>glad you're here. I love you, and she's like uh huh.

0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:14.279
<v Speaker 1>And then they finished their card game from earlier, and

0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:17.359
<v Speaker 1>then I guess they're gonna be together the end.

0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:21.399
<v Speaker 2>Woooooooo see.

0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:25.359
<v Speaker 3>I actually interpreted her hearing that Baxter had quit his

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:27.799
<v Speaker 3>job less as like, oh, my god, he loves me.

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:30.600
<v Speaker 3>I feel like she knows he loves her throughout. I

0:48:30.760 --> 0:48:32.680
<v Speaker 3>took this to me and her being like, oh, he

0:48:32.760 --> 0:48:36.400
<v Speaker 3>decided to stop being complicit in this horrible scheme.

0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:40.600
<v Speaker 3>Maybe it's giving the movie too much credit, but to me,

0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:43.719
<v Speaker 3>I sort of felt like the movie was not like

0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:48.959
<v Speaker 3>sympathetic to Baxter's complicity in it. It's like, only once

0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:52.320
<v Speaker 3>he decides to stop being complicit in it does he

0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:53.080
<v Speaker 3>get what he wants.

0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:57.640
<v Speaker 1>True. I think that interpretation works well. I was interpreted

0:48:58.000 --> 0:49:06.160
<v Speaker 1>interpretating wow, okay, awesome job, Caitlin with your brain interpret well, Now,

0:49:06.200 --> 0:49:12.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what the word is interpreting likes okay.

0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:22.120
<v Speaker 1>So I thought that because because you see her face

0:49:22.480 --> 0:49:25.600
<v Speaker 1>like lighten up as he's like, yeah, he won't even

0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:30.480
<v Speaker 1>give me the key anymore, especially if I'm taking you there.

0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:34.560
<v Speaker 1>So maybe it's like a combination of both because she's like,

0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:38.200
<v Speaker 1>oh wait, he doesn't want me to be with another man.

0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:41.719
<v Speaker 1>He wants to be with me. But I might just

0:49:41.800 --> 0:49:46.759
<v Speaker 1>be having too simple of an interpretation.

0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:54.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeay, Kaitlyn. I feel like both reads, if it makes sense.

0:49:54.360 --> 0:49:57.520
<v Speaker 2>And I also think that it feels kind of intended

0:49:57.560 --> 0:49:59.839
<v Speaker 2>that it's left a little bit open ended, because if

0:49:59.840 --> 0:50:01.719
<v Speaker 2>it it wasn't intended to be open ended, I feel

0:50:01.760 --> 0:50:03.960
<v Speaker 2>like you would have gotten, you know, like a kiss

0:50:04.520 --> 0:50:07.920
<v Speaker 2>or something. All we really know is that she is

0:50:08.000 --> 0:50:10.880
<v Speaker 2>like willing to I think the most generous read I

0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:15.040
<v Speaker 2>was able to get to on the ending, which I

0:50:15.080 --> 0:50:18.080
<v Speaker 2>didn't love, but the ending shot is such a banger,

0:50:18.200 --> 0:50:21.879
<v Speaker 2>Like it's hard to not love the ending shot, but yeah,

0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:23.640
<v Speaker 2>the most generous read I was able to get to

0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:28.600
<v Speaker 2>is that at very least Shirley McLean's character is really

0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:33.640
<v Speaker 2>happy that he did not sell her out. Further, I

0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:36.760
<v Speaker 2>think like, I think that it could be seen as like, Wow,

0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:39.280
<v Speaker 2>this is the first time in at least the course

0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:42.960
<v Speaker 2>of this movie and possibly her adult life, that she

0:50:43.200 --> 0:50:48.080
<v Speaker 2>has not been put out as property and as an

0:50:48.160 --> 0:50:51.600
<v Speaker 2>opportunity versus a person. And I feel like that connects

0:50:51.640 --> 0:50:53.720
<v Speaker 2>back to like the be men, sh be a human

0:50:53.760 --> 0:50:56.000
<v Speaker 2>being theme that the movie seems to want to do.

0:50:56.400 --> 0:50:58.399
<v Speaker 2>But I also think you're supposed to think they get

0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:01.920
<v Speaker 2>together at the end of As with many movies, I

0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:05.279
<v Speaker 2>sort of hope that the ending to this movie is

0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:07.439
<v Speaker 2>that they hook up for a month and then break

0:51:07.520 --> 0:51:10.640
<v Speaker 2>up and remain friends. That's my wish for most couples

0:51:10.680 --> 0:51:12.959
<v Speaker 2>in most movies, is that they fucked for a month

0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:14.720
<v Speaker 2>and stay friends for their whole lives.

0:51:17.160 --> 0:51:19.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I mean to me, I'm like, the happy ending

0:51:19.360 --> 0:51:21.399
<v Speaker 3>of this movie is not that they get together. It's

0:51:21.480 --> 0:51:26.720
<v Speaker 3>that she is allowed to consider that there is something

0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:30.359
<v Speaker 3>else that's possible outside of the system that she has

0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:32.720
<v Speaker 3>been sort of ground down to accept.

0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:38.960
<v Speaker 1>True. Yeah, I agree. Let's discuss further after this break.

0:51:38.800 --> 0:51:52.759
<v Speaker 5>Woo and we're back where back Emily, where would you

0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:54.160
<v Speaker 5>like to start the discussion?

0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:55.279
<v Speaker 2>What's jumping out to you?

0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:56.319
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

0:51:56.360 --> 0:51:59.080
<v Speaker 3>My gosh, I don't even know where to start. I mean,

0:51:59.160 --> 0:52:00.680
<v Speaker 3>the first thing that I want to say about this

0:52:00.719 --> 0:52:04.440
<v Speaker 3>movie is that I just I really appreciated how everything

0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:09.120
<v Speaker 3>was paying something off, Like there was nothing new introduced

0:52:09.600 --> 0:52:11.760
<v Speaker 3>that was like important that we didn't already know about,

0:52:11.800 --> 0:52:15.680
<v Speaker 3>Like even the sleeping pills, where it's like they're introduced

0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:18.160
<v Speaker 3>when he's like, I can't give you the Apartment tonight.

0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:21.120
<v Speaker 3>I'm sick. I already took a sleeping pill, like, and

0:52:21.160 --> 0:52:23.520
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't feel clunky. It feels like, oh, it's serving

0:52:23.560 --> 0:52:25.399
<v Speaker 3>a purpose there. You don't expect it to come back.

0:52:25.440 --> 0:52:27.600
<v Speaker 3>But then when it does come back, when she takes

0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:31.120
<v Speaker 3>the full bottle, You're like, oh, that was just so efficient,

0:52:31.480 --> 0:52:35.680
<v Speaker 3>so well done, very good writing. Yeah, and the mirror

0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:36.319
<v Speaker 3>coming back.

0:52:36.400 --> 0:52:41.400
<v Speaker 2>This wilder, he's got a big future ahead. Yeah.

0:52:41.719 --> 0:52:45.920
<v Speaker 3>And I also love the like that's how it crumbles

0:52:45.920 --> 0:52:48.200
<v Speaker 3>cookie wise, Oh my.

0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Gosh, I was thinking, was anyone anyone in the chat

0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:54.680
<v Speaker 2>a big fan of Bruce Almighty?

0:52:56.600 --> 0:52:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't call myself a big fan.

0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:02.240
<v Speaker 2>I've seen it, Okay, for all my brust almighty heads.

0:53:02.440 --> 0:53:05.960
<v Speaker 2>That's how the cookie crumbles is very much the Jim

0:53:06.000 --> 0:53:12.040
<v Speaker 2>Carrey character's slogan throughout the movie. And I believe that

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:14.560
<v Speaker 2>it is a clear reference to The Apartment.

0:53:14.640 --> 0:53:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh it could be the end.

0:53:16.560 --> 0:53:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Brussel Mighty heads shout out wow. But I was feeling

0:53:20.280 --> 0:53:23.640
<v Speaker 2>the Brusse Almighty the movie. Had seen Apartment the movie.

0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean a lot of movies have seen the movie

0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:28.920
<v Speaker 1>The Apartment when Harry met Sally.

0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Movies are people, and that's how we engage with them.

0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:37.600
<v Speaker 1>One thing that I appreciate about this movie is that

0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:41.680
<v Speaker 1>I think it's a good example of how men fail

0:53:41.880 --> 0:53:46.040
<v Speaker 1>upwards and get promotions that they don't deserve, and how

0:53:46.080 --> 0:53:51.120
<v Speaker 1>women are often overlooked for promotions and opportunities in general,

0:53:51.200 --> 0:53:55.120
<v Speaker 1>because men are obsessed with looking out for each other

0:53:55.239 --> 0:53:59.000
<v Speaker 1>when they engage in bad behavior. And I think that's

0:53:59.640 --> 0:54:03.440
<v Speaker 1>one of the many reasons that the patriarchy has perpetuated

0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:07.840
<v Speaker 1>itself for centuries. I don't think the movie is commenting

0:54:07.880 --> 0:54:10.799
<v Speaker 1>on that, but it is presenting it.

0:54:11.160 --> 0:54:14.520
<v Speaker 2>I think it is like presenting it pretty effectively. I

0:54:14.520 --> 0:54:17.560
<v Speaker 2>don't know how I would suggest it be shifted, but

0:54:17.600 --> 0:54:21.279
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, yeah, you're given many elements of this

0:54:21.480 --> 0:54:25.279
<v Speaker 2>like workplace patriarchy, and as a viewer, like you're sort

0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:28.320
<v Speaker 2>of expected to put it together yourself. The movie doesn't

0:54:28.360 --> 0:54:30.400
<v Speaker 2>really do that, and then at moments I think it

0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:34.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of fails its characters. But it's weird because I

0:54:34.080 --> 0:54:35.719
<v Speaker 2>feel like there is like all these shades of gray

0:54:35.760 --> 0:54:38.320
<v Speaker 2>where it's based on what we see of CC Baxter,

0:54:38.480 --> 0:54:41.359
<v Speaker 2>Like it's not that he is bad at his job,

0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:45.279
<v Speaker 2>it's that he recognizes that the only way to get

0:54:45.280 --> 0:54:51.320
<v Speaker 2>ahead is to cater to everyone around him's basest, worst,

0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:54.879
<v Speaker 2>most manipulative instincts to the people around them, and he's

0:54:54.920 --> 0:54:57.879
<v Speaker 2>fine with that. So it's like a lot of male

0:54:57.960 --> 0:55:01.280
<v Speaker 2>characters we've talked about over the years, he is both

0:55:01.920 --> 0:55:05.120
<v Speaker 2>subject to the patriarchy because he's so in the middle,

0:55:05.520 --> 0:55:08.399
<v Speaker 2>and he's also being uplifted by it at the same

0:55:08.480 --> 0:55:10.719
<v Speaker 2>time and is okay with that.

0:55:11.680 --> 0:55:14.480
<v Speaker 3>Right, And you see the alternative. He has that coworker

0:55:14.520 --> 0:55:16.480
<v Speaker 3>who works at the next desk over, who's been there

0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:20.239
<v Speaker 3>longer than him, who has done probably more better work

0:55:20.280 --> 0:55:22.840
<v Speaker 3>than him, because he's so distracted taking care of the

0:55:22.880 --> 0:55:24.000
<v Speaker 3>apartment anyway, we.

0:55:24.040 --> 0:55:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Don't see him work ever.

0:55:25.920 --> 0:55:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that guy is never going to get a promotion,

0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:34.080
<v Speaker 3>and he begrudgingly congratulates Ceci when he gets the promotion

0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:38.759
<v Speaker 3>that he earned through dubious means. And you recognize that, like,

0:55:38.920 --> 0:55:43.400
<v Speaker 3>the alternative to participating in the sort of corrupt hierarchy

0:55:43.440 --> 0:55:47.359
<v Speaker 3>of this institution is just languishing in the position that

0:55:47.360 --> 0:55:50.479
<v Speaker 3>you're in. And so it both like lets Baxter off

0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:53.120
<v Speaker 3>the hook for his choices in some way, but it

0:55:53.200 --> 0:55:55.080
<v Speaker 3>also indicts the institution.

0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, and then I feel like, on Frand's side,

0:55:58.040 --> 0:56:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious what everyone thinks about it, because I didn't

0:56:00.080 --> 0:56:04.400
<v Speaker 2>remember that they tell you that she did have higher

0:56:04.400 --> 0:56:09.360
<v Speaker 2>career aspirations but was held back, which it seems like

0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:12.440
<v Speaker 2>she I mean, I would guess that she and Baxter

0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:19.680
<v Speaker 2>are like they're intellectually matched, but Baxter has the credentials

0:56:20.239 --> 0:56:21.960
<v Speaker 2>the fact that he is a white man and the

0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:24.279
<v Speaker 2>fact that he because he's a white man, he has

0:56:24.320 --> 0:56:28.040
<v Speaker 2>the opportunities to advance. And they were like, well, sorry,

0:56:28.120 --> 0:56:31.600
<v Speaker 2>you like can't spell well enough, so you're stuck in

0:56:32.040 --> 0:56:37.400
<v Speaker 2>this very feminized working class position of this time indefinitely,

0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:40.200
<v Speaker 2>which seems to be I mean, among other things. But

0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:43.640
<v Speaker 2>it does seem that like part of her depression comes

0:56:43.640 --> 0:56:47.040
<v Speaker 2>from the fact that the world that she's in does

0:56:47.080 --> 0:56:53.600
<v Speaker 2>not offer her opportunities for advancement, like nefarious or otherwise.

0:56:55.120 --> 0:56:58.040
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I also wonder what the implication was supposed

0:56:58.080 --> 0:57:02.160
<v Speaker 3>to be of the fact that, like, Baxter's neighbors are Jews,

0:57:03.200 --> 0:57:06.160
<v Speaker 3>and there was like a class implication there that like,

0:57:06.239 --> 0:57:08.759
<v Speaker 3>even though that guy is a doctor, they live in

0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:11.560
<v Speaker 3>this like kind of shitty apartment building with this bachelor

0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:17.720
<v Speaker 3>and there is like for him and for why can't

0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:21.120
<v Speaker 3>I remember her name, Shirley McLean's character, Why can't I

0:57:21.160 --> 0:57:24.800
<v Speaker 3>go for Fran Yeah, that they both don't have the

0:57:24.840 --> 0:57:27.760
<v Speaker 3>same privileges that other people around them do, and so

0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:31.600
<v Speaker 3>they are kind of like scraping to get by. Yeah.

0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:33.520
<v Speaker 2>I was curious about that too. I mean, I know

0:57:33.640 --> 0:57:38.760
<v Speaker 2>that Billy Wilder was a Jewish writer and included other

0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Jewish characters in his films. I don't know. I mean

0:57:42.280 --> 0:57:44.880
<v Speaker 2>that sort of brings me into like some of the

0:57:44.960 --> 0:57:47.720
<v Speaker 2>context for the way that this movie was produced. There's

0:57:47.720 --> 0:57:49.600
<v Speaker 2>not a ton of it that I think is super

0:57:49.640 --> 0:57:52.520
<v Speaker 2>relevant to talk about. But the things that I guess

0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:54.320
<v Speaker 2>I would want to talk about is the fact that

0:57:54.400 --> 0:57:59.640
<v Speaker 2>like Billy Wilder had like started in noir and you know,

0:57:59.840 --> 0:58:02.360
<v Speaker 2>like did Double Indemnity in the fifties. He does all

0:58:02.400 --> 0:58:05.640
<v Speaker 2>of these wacky comedies, and then in the sixties. It

0:58:05.720 --> 0:58:10.280
<v Speaker 2>seems like this is the first example of him getting

0:58:10.320 --> 0:58:13.000
<v Speaker 2>two ideas he wanted to produce in the forties but

0:58:13.200 --> 0:58:17.440
<v Speaker 2>wasn't allowed to because of the Hayes Code until the sixties.

0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:19.800
<v Speaker 2>So this was like an idea he'd been noodling around

0:58:19.800 --> 0:58:24.439
<v Speaker 2>with since the forties, but this was the first time

0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:29.600
<v Speaker 2>he actually got clearance to do it, and I don't know,

0:58:29.640 --> 0:58:32.840
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't able to find a lot about the writing

0:58:33.000 --> 0:58:36.320
<v Speaker 2>of the movie itself. It was co written with a

0:58:36.360 --> 0:58:40.280
<v Speaker 2>common collaborator, Il Diamond. This movie takes place in nineteen

0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:42.480
<v Speaker 2>fifty nine, but it also feels like a little bit

0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:43.400
<v Speaker 2>out of time.

0:58:44.760 --> 0:58:47.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, it feels really modern in a lot

0:58:47.960 --> 0:58:50.680
<v Speaker 3>of ways, and it's sort of like cynicism about sex

0:58:50.720 --> 0:58:52.760
<v Speaker 3>and everything, which I think is a little bit of

0:58:52.800 --> 0:58:55.200
<v Speaker 3>like a Billy Wilder homemark, Like his movies are a

0:58:55.280 --> 0:59:00.640
<v Speaker 3>lot about like cynical people finding joy in spite of

0:59:00.680 --> 0:59:04.080
<v Speaker 3>themselves and in spite of like them feeling sort of

0:59:04.120 --> 0:59:06.800
<v Speaker 3>above the morays of the time. But I also kept

0:59:06.800 --> 0:59:08.640
<v Speaker 3>thinking about, like what it would be like to watch

0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:13.560
<v Speaker 3>this movie if I hadn't already seen mad Men. Ooh, right,

0:59:13.680 --> 0:59:15.960
<v Speaker 3>because I feel like mad Men was so like, oh

0:59:16.000 --> 0:59:19.000
<v Speaker 3>my god, this was so normalized and we're blowing your

0:59:19.000 --> 0:59:21.280
<v Speaker 3>mind with that, and it feels like this must have

0:59:21.400 --> 0:59:24.520
<v Speaker 3>felt a bit more radical to see before that was

0:59:24.560 --> 0:59:28.000
<v Speaker 3>like the common understanding of what these types of businessmen

0:59:28.040 --> 0:59:28.400
<v Speaker 3>were up.

0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:33.280
<v Speaker 1>To, especially because the production code was still in effect

0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:36.840
<v Speaker 1>when this movie was being developed and released, the kind

0:59:36.880 --> 0:59:40.800
<v Speaker 1>of parameters of it were getting more lax as time

0:59:40.880 --> 0:59:43.240
<v Speaker 1>went on, and I think it was in nineteen sixty

0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:47.600
<v Speaker 1>that the Hayes production code was like officially dissolved and

0:59:47.680 --> 0:59:51.760
<v Speaker 1>replaced with the rating system, but it was still enforced

0:59:51.800 --> 0:59:53.920
<v Speaker 1>to some degree when this movie came out. And so

0:59:53.960 --> 0:59:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I was surprised that there were things that this movie

0:59:57.160 --> 1:00:00.560
<v Speaker 1>got away with that I wouldn't have expected. Did it

1:00:00.640 --> 1:00:03.160
<v Speaker 1>to be able to talk about and like pretty directly

1:00:03.360 --> 1:00:11.000
<v Speaker 1>and explicitly addressed, such as suicide and suicidal ideation and infidelity, slash,

1:00:11.320 --> 1:00:15.000
<v Speaker 1>sex out of wedlock and abortion? Oh wait, what's the

1:00:15.080 --> 1:00:16.280
<v Speaker 1>abortion component?

1:00:16.480 --> 1:00:18.919
<v Speaker 3>So I mean, it's not as explicit as talking about

1:00:18.960 --> 1:00:21.720
<v Speaker 3>the suicide, but there's a moment when her brother in

1:00:21.840 --> 1:00:25.479
<v Speaker 3>law comes to the apartment to retrieve her and he

1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:28.880
<v Speaker 3>introduces Dreyfus. He's like, this is her doctor, and the

1:00:28.920 --> 1:00:30.920
<v Speaker 3>guy like almost punches him and he's like, not that

1:00:31.040 --> 1:00:31.600
<v Speaker 3>kind of doctor.

1:00:31.680 --> 1:00:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Okay, I did not connect that.

1:00:35.560 --> 1:00:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the implication being that like she's recovering from an

1:00:38.680 --> 1:00:43.240
<v Speaker 3>abortion versus and obviously they don't say it, but it

1:00:43.320 --> 1:00:45.400
<v Speaker 3>is strongly implied that like, oh yeah, that would be

1:00:45.440 --> 1:00:47.200
<v Speaker 3>the other thing that the doctor would be there treating

1:00:47.200 --> 1:00:48.400
<v Speaker 3>her for at home.

1:00:48.600 --> 1:00:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that totally makes sense. God, that did not register

1:00:52.240 --> 1:00:53.160
<v Speaker 2>for me at all.

1:00:53.800 --> 1:00:55.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I barely caught it.

1:00:56.960 --> 1:01:02.240
<v Speaker 2>This Vivie is really good, folks. But getting back to

1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:05.640
<v Speaker 2>your original point, Emily, Yeah, I thought it was interesting

1:01:05.640 --> 1:01:09.560
<v Speaker 2>that the only character that I think, like we know

1:01:09.960 --> 1:01:14.360
<v Speaker 2>is Jewish is also the moral center of the movie.

1:01:14.600 --> 1:01:17.840
<v Speaker 2>And also yeah, like of a higher class and profession

1:01:18.080 --> 1:01:21.760
<v Speaker 2>than our protagonist. Yeah, but I really liked I don't know,

1:01:21.840 --> 1:01:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I like doctor Dryfus.

1:01:23.440 --> 1:01:24.240
<v Speaker 3>And his wife.

1:01:24.680 --> 1:01:27.760
<v Speaker 2>His wife, I hate that, like we have his her

1:01:27.840 --> 1:01:31.240
<v Speaker 2>name is Mildred, we do hear her name, so for

1:01:31.360 --> 1:01:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Bechdel test purposes, she just skates through, although she is

1:01:35.160 --> 1:01:38.000
<v Speaker 2>mostly referred to as his wife. But I also was

1:01:38.040 --> 1:01:43.000
<v Speaker 2>like pleasantly surprised that Jack Krushian, who played doctor Dryfus,

1:01:43.000 --> 1:01:46.439
<v Speaker 2>was nominated for an Oscar for that part. Jack Lemon,

1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Charley McLain, and Jack krushn are all nominated for Oscars.

1:01:49.400 --> 1:01:52.400
<v Speaker 2>This movie was nominated for a million Oscars and won

1:01:52.480 --> 1:01:55.560
<v Speaker 2>a bunch, not for acting. But in any case, I

1:01:55.600 --> 1:01:59.960
<v Speaker 2>felt like doctor Dryfus, I don't know, he was interesting

1:02:00.160 --> 1:02:04.520
<v Speaker 2>to be because in some ways he and certainly Mildred

1:02:04.760 --> 1:02:08.760
<v Speaker 2>are allies to Fran based on what they know about

1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:14.400
<v Speaker 2>the situation, but they also have very like nineteen sixties

1:02:14.600 --> 1:02:19.000
<v Speaker 2>views of sex and promiscuity in general, which I feel

1:02:19.040 --> 1:02:21.680
<v Speaker 2>like this movie is sort of playing around with and

1:02:21.760 --> 1:02:27.440
<v Speaker 2>referencing how older generations versus younger generations view sex and

1:02:27.480 --> 1:02:28.840
<v Speaker 2>promiscuity at this time.

1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:34.160
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, I mean they're not as disgusted with him

1:02:34.160 --> 1:02:36.680
<v Speaker 3>as they could be, I suppose because they were like,

1:02:36.760 --> 1:02:39.520
<v Speaker 3>not in a position to be, but you are like, oh,

1:02:39.720 --> 1:02:43.400
<v Speaker 3>they have sympathy for her, even if they don't have

1:02:43.480 --> 1:02:45.600
<v Speaker 3>sympathy for Baxter, right, which I.

1:02:45.640 --> 1:02:50.640
<v Speaker 1>Was surprised about because so much of slut shaming and

1:02:50.720 --> 1:02:55.400
<v Speaker 1>like promiscuity shaming is directed toward women. And there's of

1:02:55.440 --> 1:02:58.200
<v Speaker 1>course the famous double standard of oh, if you're a

1:02:58.440 --> 1:03:03.240
<v Speaker 1>man who's fucking all the time, you're awesome, and if

1:03:03.280 --> 1:03:08.400
<v Speaker 1>you're a woman who's doing that, you're a horrible, dirty,

1:03:08.480 --> 1:03:09.520
<v Speaker 1>disgusting person.

1:03:09.680 --> 1:03:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Or it's just like fundamentally assumed that you're being deceived

1:03:14.080 --> 1:03:17.000
<v Speaker 2>versus participating, right.

1:03:17.280 --> 1:03:21.520
<v Speaker 1>Right, that too, and so for like doctor Dreyfuss's his

1:03:21.640 --> 1:03:26.120
<v Speaker 1>wife Mildred, She's like, yes, I'll fix some breakfast for her.

1:03:26.200 --> 1:03:29.040
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't do anything for you, CEC Baxter, because you're

1:03:29.240 --> 1:03:30.840
<v Speaker 1>a dirty, rotten scoundrel.

1:03:31.000 --> 1:03:31.680
<v Speaker 2>He's a dog.

1:03:31.960 --> 1:03:36.479
<v Speaker 1>But for her because I think she almost views Fran

1:03:36.960 --> 1:03:43.960
<v Speaker 1>as a victim, almost of like CC Baxter's constant parade.

1:03:44.520 --> 1:03:46.800
<v Speaker 1>What they perceive is like a constant parade of like

1:03:47.040 --> 1:03:49.680
<v Speaker 1>women coming and going out of his apartment.

1:03:49.920 --> 1:03:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because she's assuming that Fran has overdosed as a

1:03:55.080 --> 1:03:57.720
<v Speaker 2>result of CC. She is going off of right.

1:03:57.920 --> 1:04:01.760
<v Speaker 3>She knows right, Yes, who knows where her sympathies would

1:04:01.760 --> 1:04:04.760
<v Speaker 3>be if there wasn't a suicide attun true exactly.

1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:07.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was something that was on my mind because

1:04:07.320 --> 1:04:09.360
<v Speaker 2>this is the first time and I let like doctor

1:04:09.440 --> 1:04:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Dreyfus does not hesitate to intervene. It's not like he's

1:04:13.120 --> 1:04:16.960
<v Speaker 2>unwilling to help someone who he has moral questions about,

1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:20.880
<v Speaker 2>which is what doctor should do, not necessarily what they

1:04:20.920 --> 1:04:25.960
<v Speaker 2>always do. But I wondered how Mildred's opinion of Frian

1:04:26.120 --> 1:04:29.640
<v Speaker 2>would change if she was not in this position. Right,

1:04:29.960 --> 1:04:32.520
<v Speaker 2>But I also think it's fair to assume that Ceci's

1:04:32.560 --> 1:04:38.360
<v Speaker 2>a liar because he is, So that's something to keep

1:04:38.360 --> 1:04:38.840
<v Speaker 2>in mind.

1:04:40.920 --> 1:04:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Can we explore the romance between Baxter and Fran a bit.

1:04:47.440 --> 1:04:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we should.

1:04:49.240 --> 1:04:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Because I find it fascinating. So she's introduced in the elevator.

1:04:57.080 --> 1:04:59.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, he's trying to be flirty with her. He

1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:03.120
<v Speaker 1>asks her for lunch. She like smiles but doesn't express

1:05:03.160 --> 1:05:06.400
<v Speaker 1>any interest and like kind of shoes him out of

1:05:06.400 --> 1:05:07.120
<v Speaker 1>the elevator.

1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:07.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:05:07.720 --> 1:05:11.320
<v Speaker 2>I would say it's friendly, but it's not. Yes, mortatious

1:05:11.360 --> 1:05:13.200
<v Speaker 2>as he interprets it right.

1:05:13.160 --> 1:05:15.960
<v Speaker 1>As fire as my interpretation, Wow, I did it without

1:05:16.080 --> 1:05:21.400
<v Speaker 1>even trying. I said the word. She is being cordial

1:05:21.440 --> 1:05:24.800
<v Speaker 1>and professional, and maybe that's why she's like not being

1:05:24.840 --> 1:05:28.680
<v Speaker 1>flirtatious in return, because she's like, we're colleagues, you know

1:05:28.720 --> 1:05:32.240
<v Speaker 1>that would be inappropriate. But in any case, she's showing

1:05:32.280 --> 1:05:36.320
<v Speaker 1>no romantic interest. Not long after that, he asks her

1:05:36.360 --> 1:05:39.640
<v Speaker 1>to go to the theater. She declines, saying that she

1:05:39.800 --> 1:05:43.360
<v Speaker 1>has another date with another man, but Baxter kind of

1:05:43.400 --> 1:05:46.160
<v Speaker 1>like wears her down a little bit, and she's like, Okay, fine,

1:05:46.200 --> 1:05:49.680
<v Speaker 1>I'll go with you. It's right here. When we get

1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:53.120
<v Speaker 1>the I Know where you live conversation.

1:05:53.720 --> 1:05:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is the part of the movie that for

1:05:56.000 --> 1:05:59.560
<v Speaker 2>Vah is the worst, real bad, it's bad.

1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:03.640
<v Speaker 1>One of their earlier conversations in the movie is Baxter

1:06:03.880 --> 1:06:07.120
<v Speaker 1>being like, yeah, you know, we're gonna go to this play,

1:06:07.160 --> 1:06:09.080
<v Speaker 1>then we'll go out dancing. I know this great spot

1:06:09.200 --> 1:06:11.720
<v Speaker 1>right around the corner from where you live. And she's like,

1:06:11.760 --> 1:06:14.520
<v Speaker 1>oh sounds great. Wait a minute, how do you know

1:06:14.560 --> 1:06:18.280
<v Speaker 1>where I live? And then rather than him being like, oh, yeah,

1:06:18.360 --> 1:06:20.920
<v Speaker 1>she's right, is creepy that I know where she lives

1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:23.680
<v Speaker 1>and that I just told her that and acted like

1:06:23.760 --> 1:06:25.600
<v Speaker 1>it was no big deal that I told her that.

1:06:26.160 --> 1:06:29.479
<v Speaker 1>Instead he's like, not only do I know where you live,

1:06:29.960 --> 1:06:32.520
<v Speaker 1>I know who you live with. I know where and

1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:34.640
<v Speaker 1>when you were born. I know your height, your weight,

1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:37.960
<v Speaker 1>your Social Security number, and your entire medical history because

1:06:37.960 --> 1:06:41.760
<v Speaker 1>I looked up your file at the office. And she's like,

1:06:42.040 --> 1:06:42.880
<v Speaker 1>uh huh.

1:06:42.920 --> 1:06:48.880
<v Speaker 2>She's like, hah okay, this, yes, I remember this for

1:06:49.040 --> 1:06:51.720
<v Speaker 2>the first time I watched it, being like, well, that's

1:06:51.800 --> 1:06:59.160
<v Speaker 2>certainly disqualifying, yes, you would think, and yet well that's it.

1:06:59.200 --> 1:07:02.760
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, well, I think that there is so

1:07:03.080 --> 1:07:06.640
<v Speaker 2>much to love about this character and will continue talking

1:07:06.680 --> 1:07:10.480
<v Speaker 2>about her. I feel like there are moments of inconsistency

1:07:10.520 --> 1:07:15.400
<v Speaker 2>where there is like naivete I think like ascribed to

1:07:15.520 --> 1:07:20.080
<v Speaker 2>her character that feels wildly unreasonable, where it's like, yes,

1:07:20.160 --> 1:07:22.920
<v Speaker 2>she is young, she's in her early twenties, but like

1:07:23.680 --> 1:07:27.160
<v Speaker 2>people in their early twenties know, it's scary to do that.

1:07:28.120 --> 1:07:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Like that's maybe not the guy, particularly if you are

1:07:32.680 --> 1:07:36.640
<v Speaker 2>already famously not attracted to them. Like it sort of

1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:40.040
<v Speaker 2>lends itself to the wearing one down thing.

1:07:41.040 --> 1:07:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think he's benefiting here from comparison to the

1:07:45.360 --> 1:07:49.160
<v Speaker 3>men who are physically assaulting her in the workplace. Right, Yes,

1:07:49.320 --> 1:07:53.120
<v Speaker 3>he's the least bad guy. Yes, And like I think

1:07:53.200 --> 1:07:57.440
<v Speaker 3>also like in that first scene where she gets spanked

1:07:57.520 --> 1:08:00.440
<v Speaker 3>by that guy and she's sort of like tells him

1:08:00.480 --> 1:08:02.360
<v Speaker 3>off a little bit, you are kind of like, oh, well,

1:08:02.400 --> 1:08:04.680
<v Speaker 3>she's someone who will like stand up for herself if

1:08:04.720 --> 1:08:07.880
<v Speaker 3>you're doing something wrong to her kind of. And then

1:08:07.920 --> 1:08:10.000
<v Speaker 3>so when she doesn't do it to him, you're like, well,

1:08:10.000 --> 1:08:13.200
<v Speaker 3>she's not just placating him. Maybe she's okay with it.

1:08:13.400 --> 1:08:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he must be the guy.

1:08:14.800 --> 1:08:18.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, But at the same time, I'm like, as creepy

1:08:18.240 --> 1:08:20.439
<v Speaker 3>as that is and as not okay as it is

1:08:20.439 --> 1:08:23.880
<v Speaker 3>that he does that, I do think that the film

1:08:24.680 --> 1:08:28.600
<v Speaker 3>is sort of like not necessarily like judging him or

1:08:28.600 --> 1:08:31.160
<v Speaker 3>holding him accountable for it, but it is sort of

1:08:31.200 --> 1:08:34.439
<v Speaker 3>presenting the fact that he is an observer of the

1:08:34.479 --> 1:08:37.200
<v Speaker 3>lives of others and not a participant even in his

1:08:37.240 --> 1:08:40.599
<v Speaker 3>own life, Like he doesn't even occupy his own apartment, right,

1:08:40.680 --> 1:08:44.040
<v Speaker 3>and that is like the main problem that he needs

1:08:44.120 --> 1:08:48.639
<v Speaker 3>to sort of rectify throughout the movie. So it is like, yeah,

1:08:48.640 --> 1:08:50.160
<v Speaker 3>this is like kind of a messed up way to

1:08:50.280 --> 1:08:51.920
<v Speaker 3>like see what life.

1:08:51.680 --> 1:08:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Is all about.

1:08:52.760 --> 1:08:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, by like reading people's insurance files. But yeah, that's

1:08:56.880 --> 1:08:58.000
<v Speaker 3>giving him a lot of credit.

1:08:59.120 --> 1:09:01.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know, but yeah, that was a tricky

1:09:01.439 --> 1:09:03.839
<v Speaker 2>one for me. I do like feel like that moment

1:09:03.920 --> 1:09:07.519
<v Speaker 2>has potential to be I was like sort of hoping

1:09:07.680 --> 1:09:10.920
<v Speaker 2>it would be called back on in a more meaningful

1:09:11.000 --> 1:09:13.599
<v Speaker 2>way later, because it's like, if this guy is our

1:09:14.240 --> 1:09:17.439
<v Speaker 2>the guy we're rooting for, and that's the way that

1:09:17.520 --> 1:09:20.920
<v Speaker 2>he understands how to interface with people where people are

1:09:21.000 --> 1:09:24.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of numbers and obstacles to be overcome to get

1:09:24.920 --> 1:09:27.880
<v Speaker 2>to where he wants to be. I just wish that

1:09:27.880 --> 1:09:30.599
<v Speaker 2>that specific PLoP boy was called back to because it's

1:09:30.600 --> 1:09:31.840
<v Speaker 2>just like age is bad.

1:09:32.040 --> 1:09:33.880
<v Speaker 3>I mean they did call back to it, they do,

1:09:34.040 --> 1:09:35.720
<v Speaker 3>but not in a super meaningful way.

1:09:35.880 --> 1:09:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Not No, way that felt critical of him.

1:09:37.880 --> 1:09:40.160
<v Speaker 3>Really, yes, they call back to it when she's like,

1:09:40.880 --> 1:09:42.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, she calls back like, oh, you don't want

1:09:42.800 --> 1:09:44.559
<v Speaker 3>people to get the wrong idea about how I know

1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:45.040
<v Speaker 3>about that?

1:09:45.560 --> 1:09:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Like right, It just felt like a flirtatious callback versus like, Hey,

1:09:50.360 --> 1:09:55.040
<v Speaker 2>that thing you did earlier was fucking weird. Like yeah,

1:09:55.080 --> 1:09:58.160
<v Speaker 2>which is weird because she does selectively call him out

1:09:58.200 --> 1:10:00.760
<v Speaker 2>on certain things, but it's everything that you know, we

1:10:00.880 --> 1:10:05.120
<v Speaker 2>have to keep him our lead, So yeah, right.

1:10:05.600 --> 1:10:08.519
<v Speaker 1>I think it boils down to I just wish that

1:10:09.120 --> 1:10:16.519
<v Speaker 1>she had been afforded more agency and perspective throughout the movie,

1:10:16.800 --> 1:10:19.439
<v Speaker 1>because I mean, I also want to talk about how

1:10:19.920 --> 1:10:24.840
<v Speaker 1>she's presented in comparison to the other women who are

1:10:25.160 --> 1:10:29.559
<v Speaker 1>in the movie, mainly the women who the men are

1:10:29.560 --> 1:10:34.840
<v Speaker 1>having the affairs with, because she's like the one respectable

1:10:34.880 --> 1:10:37.880
<v Speaker 1>woman quote unquote. It's like the nineteen sixty version of like,

1:10:38.240 --> 1:10:41.200
<v Speaker 1>she is not like the other girls. But I still

1:10:41.200 --> 1:10:44.519
<v Speaker 1>find the way their romance plays out to be, you know,

1:10:44.880 --> 1:10:50.520
<v Speaker 1>not great, because it's a lot of her politely declining

1:10:50.880 --> 1:10:54.880
<v Speaker 1>or not showing any interest him kind of barreling past

1:10:54.960 --> 1:10:59.360
<v Speaker 1>that and wearing her down. And then there's the scene

1:10:59.360 --> 1:11:03.240
<v Speaker 1>where he has put the two and two together about oh,

1:11:03.320 --> 1:11:06.640
<v Speaker 1>the person who my boss is taking to my apartment

1:11:07.240 --> 1:11:10.200
<v Speaker 1>is fran He finds this out at the holiday party,

1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:15.599
<v Speaker 1>and he gets so upset about it. And I feel

1:11:15.600 --> 1:11:19.880
<v Speaker 1>like it's maybe some combination of like, oh, well, I'm

1:11:19.960 --> 1:11:23.080
<v Speaker 1>jealous that the woman who I want to belong to

1:11:23.120 --> 1:11:27.360
<v Speaker 1>me can't belong to me because another man has claimed

1:11:27.400 --> 1:11:30.760
<v Speaker 1>ownership of her, and this is maybe me reaching a

1:11:30.800 --> 1:11:33.160
<v Speaker 1>little bit, but I'm also just like pulling from the

1:11:33.200 --> 1:11:37.400
<v Speaker 1>context of this era of like, oh, she's like a

1:11:37.520 --> 1:11:41.400
<v Speaker 1>tainted one. She's damaged goods. You know, she's not this like.

1:11:41.560 --> 1:11:44.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I see, I didn't read it that. Okay, I

1:11:44.640 --> 1:11:48.640
<v Speaker 2>read it as it's still not a super charitable interpretation

1:11:48.760 --> 1:11:51.719
<v Speaker 2>of Baxter. But I read that as like, oh, now

1:11:51.800 --> 1:11:55.920
<v Speaker 2>I care that people's lives are being affected because I

1:11:56.120 --> 1:11:58.920
<v Speaker 2>like this person, and I like that was how I

1:11:59.080 --> 1:12:03.160
<v Speaker 2>read that seen, where it was like people are just

1:12:03.680 --> 1:12:06.800
<v Speaker 2>numbers and bimbos and this is just how the world

1:12:06.840 --> 1:12:10.439
<v Speaker 2>works until suddenly someone that you like is involved, and

1:12:10.479 --> 1:12:13.479
<v Speaker 2>then all of a sudden it matters, and yeah, well

1:12:13.560 --> 1:12:18.960
<v Speaker 2>that's not a negative thing inherently to realize that if

1:12:18.960 --> 1:12:23.000
<v Speaker 2>someone is being emotionally, like deceived or harmed is an

1:12:23.040 --> 1:12:25.920
<v Speaker 2>important thing. It does sort of reveal him to be

1:12:26.040 --> 1:12:28.880
<v Speaker 2>like someone who is kind of selfish, and that is

1:12:28.920 --> 1:12:31.240
<v Speaker 2>who he is, Like, he's like, well, I only care

1:12:31.320 --> 1:12:34.640
<v Speaker 2>if someone I like is affected, which is part of

1:12:34.680 --> 1:12:36.320
<v Speaker 2>what he has to get over that. I feel like,

1:12:36.400 --> 1:12:39.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, you could argue whether he actually makes that

1:12:39.920 --> 1:12:42.760
<v Speaker 2>journey fully but yeah.

1:12:42.439 --> 1:12:45.200
<v Speaker 3>Right, but yeah, it's left a little ambiguous, like what

1:12:45.240 --> 1:12:46.000
<v Speaker 3>it is about.

1:12:45.800 --> 1:12:49.000
<v Speaker 1>That that affects him, right, Yeah, yeah, it's hard to say.

1:12:49.080 --> 1:12:52.000
<v Speaker 1>But he gets so upset about it that he goes

1:12:52.040 --> 1:12:56.439
<v Speaker 1>to a bar and gets drunk and picks up another woman.

1:12:56.520 --> 1:12:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Which I'm not casting any judgment on any of that

1:12:59.760 --> 1:13:01.920
<v Speaker 1>because it sounds like something I would do.

1:13:03.479 --> 1:13:07.080
<v Speaker 2>No, they're lonely and hanging out. I always remember just

1:13:07.160 --> 1:13:11.280
<v Speaker 2>the image of them, like soul loosely dancing cheeksh to cheek,

1:13:11.400 --> 1:13:12.639
<v Speaker 2>Like it's so funny.

1:13:12.760 --> 1:13:15.679
<v Speaker 3>It's so funny, And it is that hard cut from

1:13:15.720 --> 1:13:19.800
<v Speaker 3>her making her suicide attempt to them dancing cheek to cheek,

1:13:19.800 --> 1:13:22.840
<v Speaker 3>and you're like, the darkest moment and the funniest moment

1:13:22.840 --> 1:13:25.639
<v Speaker 3>in this movie is just like back to back.

1:13:25.960 --> 1:13:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like that stark image of like loneliness and like,

1:13:31.320 --> 1:13:33.120
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it could have been way more. I

1:13:33.120 --> 1:13:36.080
<v Speaker 2>think that in general, women who are not Shirley maclain

1:13:36.600 --> 1:13:39.679
<v Speaker 2>are made out to be kind of well a few

1:13:39.680 --> 1:13:41.680
<v Speaker 2>are made out to be kind of like bimbos that

1:13:41.720 --> 1:13:43.800
<v Speaker 2>are like, what do you mean You're not gonna blah

1:13:43.840 --> 1:13:46.800
<v Speaker 2>blah blah. But I think the exception to that sort

1:13:46.800 --> 1:13:50.360
<v Speaker 2>of trope is Shell Drake's secretary. I feel like we

1:13:50.479 --> 1:13:53.599
<v Speaker 2>do get some interiority for her, and I liked that

1:13:54.400 --> 1:13:58.200
<v Speaker 2>in the scene at the holiday party, we have Shell

1:13:58.280 --> 1:14:00.559
<v Speaker 2>Drake's I forget what her name is, we do get

1:14:00.560 --> 1:14:03.840
<v Speaker 2>a name for her, Miss Olsen, miss Olsen. I was

1:14:03.840 --> 1:14:06.800
<v Speaker 2>calling her Elizabeth Olsen in my mind because that is

1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:10.920
<v Speaker 2>a famous person I've heard of. But miss Olsen, I

1:14:11.000 --> 1:14:14.760
<v Speaker 2>thought the way that she presented that information to Fran

1:14:15.000 --> 1:14:19.120
<v Speaker 2>while it was like drunk and like not super well,

1:14:20.000 --> 1:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>presented the way you wouldn't when you're drunk. I thought

1:14:22.920 --> 1:14:25.600
<v Speaker 2>that that was like more than I expected, because I

1:14:25.600 --> 1:14:28.000
<v Speaker 2>feel like it would have been very easy in this setting,

1:14:28.080 --> 1:14:31.120
<v Speaker 2>in this time to have it turned into a rivalry

1:14:31.680 --> 1:14:36.520
<v Speaker 2>and a shameful thing, where I think like miss Olsen's

1:14:36.680 --> 1:14:40.400
<v Speaker 2>anger is well placed. It's at shell Drake. She knows

1:14:40.439 --> 1:14:42.960
<v Speaker 2>he's a piece of shit, and she literally says to

1:14:43.040 --> 1:14:46.080
<v Speaker 2>Fran like, there's nothing to be ashamed of. He is

1:14:46.479 --> 1:14:49.120
<v Speaker 2>we've seen him do this, like you are not. And

1:14:49.200 --> 1:14:53.639
<v Speaker 2>as someone who has been young, naive and in that

1:14:53.680 --> 1:14:57.519
<v Speaker 2>position being told by someone like hey, this guy you're with,

1:14:57.920 --> 1:15:00.519
<v Speaker 2>he's a piece of shit. I've been in your position too,

1:15:01.120 --> 1:15:04.960
<v Speaker 2>it never feels good. And seeing it written by two

1:15:05.080 --> 1:15:09.080
<v Speaker 2>men is never quite on. But those like hey, just

1:15:09.160 --> 1:15:12.200
<v Speaker 2>so you know, I see what you're going through, and

1:15:12.479 --> 1:15:13.599
<v Speaker 2>this guy's a piece of shit.

1:15:13.760 --> 1:15:16.360
<v Speaker 3>You're part of a pattern. You're not special. This is

1:15:16.439 --> 1:15:20.240
<v Speaker 3>like he's going to do this again. Yes, totally, it

1:15:20.400 --> 1:15:22.760
<v Speaker 3>is a true warning. She's not saying it to be

1:15:22.960 --> 1:15:26.040
<v Speaker 3>like fuck you, like yeah, she is saying it to

1:15:26.080 --> 1:15:29.000
<v Speaker 3>be like I am the ghost of Christmas past.

1:15:29.280 --> 1:15:33.960
<v Speaker 2>And totally yeah, Having now been on both sides of

1:15:34.000 --> 1:15:38.040
<v Speaker 2>that equation, that is a very meaningful interaction that we're

1:15:38.200 --> 1:15:42.080
<v Speaker 2>seeing there. And the fact that that is what puts

1:15:42.120 --> 1:15:46.559
<v Speaker 2>her over the edge and sends her into suicidal ideation

1:15:46.840 --> 1:15:50.040
<v Speaker 2>is like, we should talk about that also, something that

1:15:50.120 --> 1:15:54.439
<v Speaker 2>certainly happens. I don't know. I was surprised by that

1:15:54.640 --> 1:15:57.360
<v Speaker 2>moment watching it this time, because I feel like in

1:15:57.400 --> 1:15:59.800
<v Speaker 2>a movie in nineteen sixty I would assume that it

1:16:00.120 --> 1:16:03.320
<v Speaker 2>be like a woman shaming another woman of like, how

1:16:03.360 --> 1:16:06.280
<v Speaker 2>could you be so naive? How could you blah blah

1:16:06.320 --> 1:16:09.600
<v Speaker 2>blah blah blah, But instead it was like a callous,

1:16:09.840 --> 1:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>imperfect moment of recognition.

1:16:14.040 --> 1:16:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I tend to agree that her intention is, you know,

1:16:19.479 --> 1:16:24.960
<v Speaker 1>looking out for her fellow woman who is going through

1:16:25.000 --> 1:16:28.000
<v Speaker 1>something that she already went through. But that character is

1:16:28.000 --> 1:16:31.559
<v Speaker 1>also established to be someone who seems like kind of

1:16:32.000 --> 1:16:35.160
<v Speaker 1>devious in the sense that she's like always sneaking around.

1:16:35.280 --> 1:16:38.599
<v Speaker 1>She's very nosy, she's trying to like stir things up.

1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:43.519
<v Speaker 1>Because we also see her call mister Sheldrake's his wife

1:16:44.080 --> 1:16:48.280
<v Speaker 1>and you know, arranged to get together for lunch to

1:16:48.360 --> 1:16:51.559
<v Speaker 1>tell her about all of shell Drake's affairs.

1:16:51.640 --> 1:16:53.639
<v Speaker 2>I don't think the movie judges her for that.

1:16:53.600 --> 1:16:55.760
<v Speaker 3>Though now I felt like that was it was like

1:16:55.800 --> 1:16:58.520
<v Speaker 3>a twist to reveal that she had had a relationship

1:16:58.520 --> 1:17:01.120
<v Speaker 3>with Shell Drake, because at first you are like, oh, yeah,

1:17:01.120 --> 1:17:03.080
<v Speaker 3>she's one of those nosy people and that's why they

1:17:03.120 --> 1:17:04.880
<v Speaker 3>need to hide it, and then it sort of is

1:17:04.960 --> 1:17:07.280
<v Speaker 3>like a reveal of like, oh, he's talking about her

1:17:07.320 --> 1:17:11.040
<v Speaker 3>like she's nosy, but really she's scorned, and like it

1:17:11.280 --> 1:17:14.040
<v Speaker 3>is a situation that he created, not a situation that

1:17:14.120 --> 1:17:14.759
<v Speaker 3>she created.

1:17:15.080 --> 1:17:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe I.

1:17:16.120 --> 1:17:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Was just because so many of the other women were

1:17:18.720 --> 1:17:24.760
<v Speaker 1>presented as being like ditzy, fluozy or like naggy in

1:17:24.840 --> 1:17:27.160
<v Speaker 1>some way that I just sort of carried some of

1:17:27.160 --> 1:17:29.320
<v Speaker 1>that into that character, because I do feel like a

1:17:29.360 --> 1:17:30.360
<v Speaker 1>lot of those other I think.

1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:33.800
<v Speaker 2>The women who are brought into the apartment are right, yeah,

1:17:33.840 --> 1:17:34.160
<v Speaker 2>there is.

1:17:34.439 --> 1:17:37.360
<v Speaker 1>It seems a lot of judgment cast on them by

1:17:37.720 --> 1:17:41.559
<v Speaker 1>the movie. And maybe I was just carrying some of

1:17:41.600 --> 1:17:45.080
<v Speaker 1>that and projecting it onto the Miss Sulsen character.

1:17:45.400 --> 1:17:48.240
<v Speaker 2>I will wave a flag for miss Olsen. I think Missulsen,

1:17:48.920 --> 1:17:51.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, she she did it imperfectly, but all of

1:17:52.000 --> 1:17:55.680
<v Speaker 2>her motivations to be made sense, Like it wasn't just

1:17:55.720 --> 1:18:00.479
<v Speaker 2>like she was a spiteful, nosy person, like she was

1:18:00.720 --> 1:18:05.439
<v Speaker 2>fucked over by her bot, like she was presumably harassed

1:18:05.479 --> 1:18:09.040
<v Speaker 2>at work, ended up in this relationship, and then for

1:18:09.160 --> 1:18:13.360
<v Speaker 2>her own livelihood, forced to stay and watch him do

1:18:13.439 --> 1:18:16.479
<v Speaker 2>this to other women. And then we see her make

1:18:16.600 --> 1:18:20.960
<v Speaker 2>a drunken attempt to acknowledge one of those other women to.

1:18:21.000 --> 1:18:21.839
<v Speaker 3>Break the cycle.

1:18:22.280 --> 1:18:26.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which, unfortunately, what happens like that I don't think

1:18:26.479 --> 1:18:29.439
<v Speaker 2>can be pinned on miss Olsen. Again, this is all

1:18:29.479 --> 1:18:33.720
<v Speaker 2>traced back to Sheldrake and him thinking that he is untouchable,

1:18:34.560 --> 1:18:37.360
<v Speaker 2>which I feel like made it hit even harder and

1:18:37.439 --> 1:18:40.680
<v Speaker 2>more frustrating that at the end, you know, he's always

1:18:41.000 --> 1:18:43.840
<v Speaker 2>going to be fine even though he doesn't end up

1:18:43.840 --> 1:18:48.559
<v Speaker 2>with Fran and Fran escapes his fucking evil spiral. You know,

1:18:48.680 --> 1:18:52.400
<v Speaker 2>like he will continue to be fine indefinitely, which is

1:18:52.479 --> 1:18:55.639
<v Speaker 2>true of the time and true basically still now.

1:18:56.760 --> 1:18:59.320
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's like anyone who decides like I have a

1:18:59.360 --> 1:19:01.920
<v Speaker 3>moral conscience about what's happening and I'm going to tap

1:19:01.960 --> 1:19:05.800
<v Speaker 3>out is lost from the company. Yeah, like they are

1:19:05.840 --> 1:19:08.960
<v Speaker 3>all exiled, and she's one of those people who's like,

1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:12.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm out. I guess because I exposed what's happening.

1:19:13.360 --> 1:19:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, which tracks because men are obsessed with getting rid

1:19:18.439 --> 1:19:23.800
<v Speaker 1>of anyone who will not comply with their horrible behavior.

1:19:24.560 --> 1:19:27.920
<v Speaker 2>I had a little bit about because like we've sort

1:19:27.960 --> 1:19:31.200
<v Speaker 2>of been talking about for a while now, like how

1:19:31.439 --> 1:19:36.599
<v Speaker 2>this movie was marketed successfully as a comedy and also

1:19:36.720 --> 1:19:41.800
<v Speaker 2>prominently features a suicide attempt. I think, I mean that

1:19:42.280 --> 1:19:44.519
<v Speaker 2>was certainly like hinted at in many movies. I think

1:19:44.520 --> 1:19:47.080
<v Speaker 2>this is one of the more famous examples of a

1:19:47.120 --> 1:19:51.519
<v Speaker 2>suicide attempt being a major plot point. There was a

1:19:51.560 --> 1:19:55.080
<v Speaker 2>really good retrospective piece that came out in twenty twenty,

1:19:55.560 --> 1:20:02.120
<v Speaker 2>remember that in The av Club Bike Caroline Seed that

1:20:02.479 --> 1:20:06.680
<v Speaker 2>touches on sort of how the theme of suicide is

1:20:06.720 --> 1:20:11.080
<v Speaker 2>touched upon. I think that in some ways, fran makes

1:20:11.240 --> 1:20:16.439
<v Speaker 2>what appears to be like an unplanned attempt on her

1:20:16.520 --> 1:20:21.280
<v Speaker 2>life after mister Sheldrake leaves in truly the most horrific

1:20:21.320 --> 1:20:24.439
<v Speaker 2>way possible, like he's a He's just like such a

1:20:24.439 --> 1:20:28.240
<v Speaker 2>fucking piece of shit. And as she is recovered from that,

1:20:28.280 --> 1:20:32.080
<v Speaker 2>I felt like the movie didn't judge her in the

1:20:32.120 --> 1:20:34.519
<v Speaker 2>way that I would expect a movie of this time

1:20:35.479 --> 1:20:38.200
<v Speaker 2>to judge her. I think that where I get a

1:20:38.240 --> 1:20:41.799
<v Speaker 2>little trick is like she is portrayed as so naive

1:20:42.120 --> 1:20:45.360
<v Speaker 2>during her recovery. I want to be generous with her there,

1:20:45.439 --> 1:20:49.839
<v Speaker 2>because she is recovering from something extremely traumatic and extremely

1:20:49.880 --> 1:20:52.000
<v Speaker 2>horrific and she's still sort of coming back to who

1:20:52.000 --> 1:20:55.840
<v Speaker 2>she is. The moment that really sticks with me is

1:20:55.880 --> 1:20:58.920
<v Speaker 2>that she's not judged by Baxter and I'm not like

1:20:59.320 --> 1:21:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Team back, but I think the way that he handled

1:21:02.280 --> 1:21:06.920
<v Speaker 2>the immediate aftermath was thoughtful, especially in the scene where

1:21:07.000 --> 1:21:10.080
<v Speaker 2>he I think that up until this point in the

1:21:10.120 --> 1:21:12.960
<v Speaker 2>movie that I don't know how to correctly phrase this,

1:21:13.400 --> 1:21:16.800
<v Speaker 2>but that you wouldn't see this scenario with a man

1:21:17.160 --> 1:21:19.920
<v Speaker 2>because of how we have been trained by this movie

1:21:20.000 --> 1:21:23.519
<v Speaker 2>and by society at the time to think that men

1:21:23.640 --> 1:21:28.320
<v Speaker 2>are knowingly dogs and women are unknowingly deceived, and that

1:21:28.479 --> 1:21:30.960
<v Speaker 2>is like the binary we've been presented with. And so

1:21:31.080 --> 1:21:35.280
<v Speaker 2>when Baxter comes to her very honestly and is like,

1:21:35.439 --> 1:21:38.599
<v Speaker 2>I once almost made an attempt on my life, also

1:21:38.720 --> 1:21:42.040
<v Speaker 2>over a relationship, and I'm so glad I didn't, and

1:21:42.360 --> 1:21:46.200
<v Speaker 2>here's why, and all of this, and having that be

1:21:46.400 --> 1:21:50.960
<v Speaker 2>like a moment of healing and recognition, even though you know,

1:21:51.000 --> 1:21:53.400
<v Speaker 2>I think realistically she's still not out of the woods

1:21:53.439 --> 1:21:56.880
<v Speaker 2>with navigating her feelings on this. I thought that scene

1:21:56.920 --> 1:22:00.400
<v Speaker 2>is really beautiful and nice.

1:22:00.720 --> 1:22:05.080
<v Speaker 1>I agree, and I also found it surprising, again based

1:22:05.120 --> 1:22:08.719
<v Speaker 1>on the context of the time and the just sort

1:22:08.720 --> 1:22:16.800
<v Speaker 1>of cultural mentality toward suicide and it's misunderstanding of mental

1:22:16.880 --> 1:22:21.439
<v Speaker 1>health and all of that. So yeah, I found the

1:22:21.479 --> 1:22:26.160
<v Speaker 1>movie to be like very generous with its handling of that,

1:22:26.320 --> 1:22:27.800
<v Speaker 1>especially for the time.

1:22:28.200 --> 1:22:30.599
<v Speaker 2>I love friend, and I also think that someone showing

1:22:30.720 --> 1:22:33.280
<v Speaker 2>up for you in that moment does not mean that

1:22:33.680 --> 1:22:36.640
<v Speaker 2>you have to be their girlfriend. That's where I have

1:22:36.720 --> 1:22:37.799
<v Speaker 2>a hard time.

1:22:39.240 --> 1:22:41.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, to be fair, she does go back to

1:22:41.560 --> 1:22:46.839
<v Speaker 1>shell Drake for reasons. I mean, who among us hasn't

1:22:46.960 --> 1:22:52.920
<v Speaker 1>gone back to a bad relationship, even though we you know,

1:22:53.040 --> 1:22:57.120
<v Speaker 1>logically you know better, but emotionally at that exact moment,

1:22:57.240 --> 1:23:00.000
<v Speaker 1>maybe you don't. So we won't blame her for that.

1:23:00.439 --> 1:23:05.120
<v Speaker 1>But the very jarring thing to me about the recovery

1:23:05.280 --> 1:23:09.440
<v Speaker 1>of the suicide attempt is the scene where the doctor

1:23:09.920 --> 1:23:12.960
<v Speaker 1>is like treating her and then like I think, giving

1:23:13.000 --> 1:23:16.760
<v Speaker 1>her smelling salts or something to help her getting consciousness,

1:23:16.800 --> 1:23:20.439
<v Speaker 1>and then he slaps her across the face multiple times

1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:22.920
<v Speaker 1>to try to wake her up. I'm sure that was

1:23:23.360 --> 1:23:28.360
<v Speaker 1>standard medical practice four the time, a little.

1:23:28.640 --> 1:23:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, necessary to show, I would say.

1:23:33.920 --> 1:23:37.559
<v Speaker 1>No, it was not necessary to see a man slapping

1:23:37.600 --> 1:23:40.120
<v Speaker 1>a woman across the face like six times in a.

1:23:40.160 --> 1:23:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Row, especially as he was about to become the moral

1:23:43.960 --> 1:23:47.479
<v Speaker 2>compass of the movie not two minutes later.

1:23:48.280 --> 1:23:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you know. Nineteen sixty Although when I had

1:23:54.960 --> 1:23:58.600
<v Speaker 1>my gallbladder surgery in twenty nineteen, and I was like,

1:23:58.640 --> 1:24:01.519
<v Speaker 1>coming out of the anesthesia, I was woken up to

1:24:01.640 --> 1:24:04.280
<v Speaker 1>a doctor slapping me across the face. What so maybe

1:24:04.320 --> 1:24:07.840
<v Speaker 1>it is Yeah, it was like traumatizing and I was like,

1:24:07.960 --> 1:24:12.200
<v Speaker 1>excuse me, is that necessary? But a doctor was slapping

1:24:12.240 --> 1:24:14.120
<v Speaker 1>me in the face to wake me up because they

1:24:14.120 --> 1:24:17.760
<v Speaker 1>thought I was dying because my heart rate was low.

1:24:17.920 --> 1:24:18.559
<v Speaker 1>And then they're like.

1:24:18.600 --> 1:24:20.560
<v Speaker 2>Went vampire mode.

1:24:20.960 --> 1:24:23.840
<v Speaker 1>They were like, they're like, are you a runner? Like

1:24:23.840 --> 1:24:27.559
<v Speaker 1>do you exercise? I was like yes, and they're like, well,

1:24:27.600 --> 1:24:30.599
<v Speaker 1>your heart rate is alarmingly low. But if you're a runner,

1:24:30.640 --> 1:24:33.320
<v Speaker 1>that's actually kind of normal. But if you're not, we

1:24:33.400 --> 1:24:38.840
<v Speaker 1>thought you were dying. So they slapped me just in case.

1:24:38.880 --> 1:24:44.519
<v Speaker 3>And medical slap sometimes I mean like, and we know

1:24:44.600 --> 1:24:47.320
<v Speaker 3>the medical system is so fucked is sobody ways.

1:24:47.120 --> 1:24:49.599
<v Speaker 2>But sometimes I don't know, Like there were times over

1:24:49.640 --> 1:24:51.360
<v Speaker 2>the summer where I was with a doctor. I'm like,

1:24:51.439 --> 1:24:57.160
<v Speaker 2>you're describing like witchcraft. You're just being like, ultimately, we

1:24:57.280 --> 1:25:00.240
<v Speaker 2>don't know, we're gonna throw some leaves at it, and

1:25:00.439 --> 1:25:03.360
<v Speaker 2>guy knows what happens. I'm like, I don't feel secure

1:25:04.280 --> 1:25:08.679
<v Speaker 2>in your abilities. I don't trust you live off love.

1:25:09.800 --> 1:25:11.320
<v Speaker 2>I think, Okay, the last thing I have to say

1:25:11.320 --> 1:25:14.599
<v Speaker 2>about Baxter, yeah, is that again I think that this

1:25:14.720 --> 1:25:20.240
<v Speaker 2>is done unevenly throughout the movie. But I appreciated where

1:25:20.400 --> 1:25:25.760
<v Speaker 2>we talk so much on this freaking show about patriarchy

1:25:25.840 --> 1:25:30.200
<v Speaker 2>the guy, and there's one guy who represents all the patriarchy,

1:25:30.240 --> 1:25:33.720
<v Speaker 2>and if we vanquished this one guy, the world will

1:25:33.760 --> 1:25:38.000
<v Speaker 2>be solved, and we will. We've also seen racism the guy,

1:25:38.400 --> 1:25:41.840
<v Speaker 2>and you vanquished racism the guy or it racism the

1:25:41.920 --> 1:25:46.080
<v Speaker 2>lady Brave, and then racism is helved, you know. So

1:25:46.280 --> 1:25:49.120
<v Speaker 2>it's like very clean movie solutions. I like that this

1:25:49.240 --> 1:25:52.640
<v Speaker 2>movie does not subscribe to that. I think that the

1:25:52.760 --> 1:25:56.400
<v Speaker 2>tricky thing is that in the guys who aren't Shell

1:25:56.479 --> 1:26:00.040
<v Speaker 2>Drake who go to the apartment, as well as the

1:26:00.120 --> 1:26:02.320
<v Speaker 2>women who go with them, are made to be comic

1:26:02.400 --> 1:26:05.160
<v Speaker 2>relief in a way that is funny but kind of

1:26:05.360 --> 1:26:11.200
<v Speaker 2>ultimately a little dissonant. But with Baxter, I really like

1:26:11.280 --> 1:26:14.479
<v Speaker 2>that he is I think the movie knows he is

1:26:14.479 --> 1:26:17.480
<v Speaker 2>like an agent of the patriarchy because he's quite literally

1:26:17.680 --> 1:26:23.160
<v Speaker 2>an agent of the patriarchy. He is like sharing his

1:26:23.560 --> 1:26:28.120
<v Speaker 2>bed sheets with them for advancement. He is knowingly benefiting

1:26:28.400 --> 1:26:31.920
<v Speaker 2>from this and doesn't give a shit about anyone in

1:26:31.960 --> 1:26:35.800
<v Speaker 2>the equation until it's someone who he cares about who

1:26:36.000 --> 1:26:38.439
<v Speaker 2>is being negatively affected by it. I feel like we

1:26:38.720 --> 1:26:43.320
<v Speaker 2>don't really see characters like that very frequently in a

1:26:43.439 --> 1:26:45.720
<v Speaker 2>knowing way. I think where that gets tricky is the

1:26:45.880 --> 1:26:49.920
<v Speaker 2>ending implication that possibly like it almost like positions Shirley

1:26:50.000 --> 1:26:53.080
<v Speaker 2>mcclan as the reward for realizing he was an agent

1:26:53.120 --> 1:26:55.639
<v Speaker 2>of the patriarchy, where he's like, now that he has

1:26:55.680 --> 1:27:01.160
<v Speaker 2>abandoned the toxic workplace, that he has walked away from it,

1:27:01.640 --> 1:27:06.040
<v Speaker 2>he can have girlfriend and at the end of the day,

1:27:06.800 --> 1:27:10.280
<v Speaker 2>isn't that what it was all for? Blah blah blah.

1:27:10.320 --> 1:27:13.200
<v Speaker 2>So that that's a little you know, and again that's

1:27:13.240 --> 1:27:16.080
<v Speaker 2>open to interpretation. We've talked about different interpretations of that,

1:27:16.280 --> 1:27:19.679
<v Speaker 2>but I just appreciated that, like normally, when we see

1:27:19.760 --> 1:27:24.480
<v Speaker 2>characters like that, the movie completely absolves them of everything,

1:27:25.360 --> 1:27:27.479
<v Speaker 2>and it's like, at the end, he does get the

1:27:27.520 --> 1:27:30.880
<v Speaker 2>promotion and he's gonna solve insurance from the inside, and

1:27:30.920 --> 1:27:34.400
<v Speaker 2>this movie is smarter than that, right, And I love

1:27:34.520 --> 1:27:35.000
<v Speaker 2>it for that.

1:27:35.360 --> 1:27:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it still does reward him with at least

1:27:39.520 --> 1:27:45.320
<v Speaker 1>like a woman's tension for that night, unclear if they'll

1:27:45.439 --> 1:27:49.759
<v Speaker 1>like get together romantically. But again it begs the question

1:27:49.880 --> 1:27:54.240
<v Speaker 1>to me, what does she like about him? Besides the

1:27:54.240 --> 1:27:57.040
<v Speaker 1>fact that he's respectful enough to take off his hat

1:27:57.160 --> 1:28:00.880
<v Speaker 1>in the elevator, like, she's given no indication that she's

1:28:00.960 --> 1:28:04.680
<v Speaker 1>romantically interested in him. And I don't know. Maybe you

1:28:04.680 --> 1:28:07.719
<v Speaker 1>can make the argument that through this journey of her

1:28:08.560 --> 1:28:12.920
<v Speaker 1>relationship with shell Drake and she finally comes to realize, Oh,

1:28:13.560 --> 1:28:17.439
<v Speaker 1>this man doesn't respect me or care for me the

1:28:17.479 --> 1:28:21.960
<v Speaker 1>way a person should. And it seems like Baxter, based

1:28:22.000 --> 1:28:24.600
<v Speaker 1>on the way he took care of me after my

1:28:24.720 --> 1:28:28.480
<v Speaker 1>suicide attempt, he's the better option. I don't know exactly

1:28:29.720 --> 1:28:32.439
<v Speaker 1>what the implications all are.

1:28:32.760 --> 1:28:35.200
<v Speaker 2>I like that it doesn't tell you what it is, too,

1:28:35.200 --> 1:28:38.759
<v Speaker 2>because then it makes it easier to love this movie

1:28:38.840 --> 1:28:42.519
<v Speaker 2>on a longer timeline, which I want to.

1:28:43.640 --> 1:28:46.320
<v Speaker 1>That is fair, I because I don't have as much

1:28:46.320 --> 1:28:50.160
<v Speaker 1>of an attachment to it, and I don't feel like

1:28:50.240 --> 1:28:52.479
<v Speaker 1>at this point, or at least at the point where

1:28:52.479 --> 1:28:57.640
<v Speaker 1>the movie ends, that Cec Baxter earned the redemption that

1:28:57.680 --> 1:29:01.200
<v Speaker 1>he appears to get by being able to hang out

1:29:01.240 --> 1:29:02.639
<v Speaker 1>with friend.

1:29:03.200 --> 1:29:05.760
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he he did give up everything he had,

1:29:06.240 --> 1:29:10.599
<v Speaker 3>He did this is jet including the apartment, and he

1:29:10.680 --> 1:29:15.679
<v Speaker 3>did get punched really hard and gave up his apartment

1:29:15.720 --> 1:29:19.719
<v Speaker 3>and his job and his career and like literally has nothing.

1:29:20.240 --> 1:29:23.920
<v Speaker 1>I guess I just think that, yeah, I'm like, men

1:29:23.960 --> 1:29:28.520
<v Speaker 1>should give up that and more to deserve any redemption.

1:29:29.600 --> 1:29:33.320
<v Speaker 2>So I think that again, it is very connected to

1:29:33.800 --> 1:29:37.880
<v Speaker 2>that moment of human connection between the two of them

1:29:38.560 --> 1:29:42.040
<v Speaker 2>when they are sharing this experience of like they have

1:29:42.160 --> 1:29:46.160
<v Speaker 2>both been at an extremely low point and like, please

1:29:46.240 --> 1:29:48.400
<v Speaker 2>let me share my experience with you, that you might

1:29:48.479 --> 1:29:51.799
<v Speaker 2>take something from it to get through this difficult experience

1:29:52.040 --> 1:29:54.640
<v Speaker 2>for me. Honestly, I think the movie is heightened if

1:29:54.680 --> 1:29:58.360
<v Speaker 2>they don't end up, or even it being implied that

1:29:58.360 --> 1:30:01.439
<v Speaker 2>they end up together. But the generous interpretation at the

1:30:01.520 --> 1:30:04.600
<v Speaker 2>ending for me is that again he says I love you,

1:30:04.640 --> 1:30:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I love you so much, and she says, okay, let's

1:30:07.000 --> 1:30:10.759
<v Speaker 2>play cards. I feel like it is like weird thinking

1:30:10.800 --> 1:30:13.559
<v Speaker 2>they are going to get together. But I just what

1:30:13.640 --> 1:30:15.800
<v Speaker 2>I would have loved is just yeah, like another moment

1:30:15.880 --> 1:30:18.080
<v Speaker 2>of like the moments of human connection between the two

1:30:18.080 --> 1:30:21.839
<v Speaker 2>of them. I like, I've had moments of human connections

1:30:21.960 --> 1:30:25.640
<v Speaker 2>with guys who kind of sucked that have been impactful.

1:30:26.479 --> 1:30:29.439
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I don't think that his life should

1:30:29.439 --> 1:30:32.559
<v Speaker 2>be totally but his life even he's like also not

1:30:32.600 --> 1:30:34.880
<v Speaker 2>for nothing. He is fucked and like that that's not

1:30:34.920 --> 1:30:38.080
<v Speaker 2>what movies are interested in, nor should they be. But like,

1:30:38.520 --> 1:30:41.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's fucked, Like he what is he gonna

1:30:41.920 --> 1:30:45.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's he's a guy. He'll bounce bounce back though,

1:30:45.560 --> 1:30:48.120
<v Speaker 2>and I do believe that she will as well. Something

1:30:48.120 --> 1:30:50.320
<v Speaker 2>I like about her character as we're not led to

1:30:50.360 --> 1:30:53.439
<v Speaker 2>believe that like I'm just doing this job until I

1:30:53.479 --> 1:30:55.680
<v Speaker 2>find a husband, Like it seems like she wants to

1:30:55.720 --> 1:30:58.880
<v Speaker 2>have a career like it that's never brought up as

1:30:58.920 --> 1:31:02.000
<v Speaker 2>something that is like a temporary thing for her, and

1:31:02.200 --> 1:31:05.160
<v Speaker 2>judgment isn't passed on her for it. I don't know

1:31:05.200 --> 1:31:07.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm becoming defensive of this movie, but I think that

1:31:07.560 --> 1:31:11.280
<v Speaker 2>like C. C. Baxter, I'm friends with people like C. C. Baxter,

1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:16.320
<v Speaker 2>and the trick is never fuck them. M that's the yeah.

1:31:16.360 --> 1:31:19.639
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I do think that this movie is more

1:31:19.760 --> 1:31:25.679
<v Speaker 3>critical of the sort of social understandings of the time

1:31:26.080 --> 1:31:29.439
<v Speaker 3>than it has to be, yeah, to tell the story,

1:31:29.479 --> 1:31:31.559
<v Speaker 3>and I think that it is like it doesn't let

1:31:31.600 --> 1:31:33.240
<v Speaker 3>this guy off the hook, even though he's not the

1:31:33.280 --> 1:31:34.880
<v Speaker 3>one cheating on his wife, you know what I mean,

1:31:35.000 --> 1:31:37.880
<v Speaker 3>Like he gets all of the consequences that are coming

1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:41.920
<v Speaker 3>to those guys that they never experience because he's standing

1:31:41.920 --> 1:31:44.439
<v Speaker 3>in and saying like, yes, I'm fucking all these women,

1:31:44.560 --> 1:31:48.360
<v Speaker 3>Like he doesn't get to, you know, correct the record

1:31:48.600 --> 1:31:51.800
<v Speaker 3>about like I wasn't actually fucking all those women. Other

1:31:51.840 --> 1:31:53.640
<v Speaker 3>men were doing that in my bed, you know what

1:31:53.640 --> 1:31:56.200
<v Speaker 3>I mean. And he still pays the price for it,

1:31:56.240 --> 1:31:58.800
<v Speaker 3>and it is still like, well he does owe something, but.

1:32:00.280 --> 1:32:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Anyway, I think that the one hundred dollars

1:32:06.360 --> 1:32:09.600
<v Speaker 1>that Shell Drake gives to Fran that she should have

1:32:09.720 --> 1:32:17.320
<v Speaker 1>kept it because uh men, oh women money you read

1:32:18.240 --> 1:32:18.719
<v Speaker 1>It's true.

1:32:18.760 --> 1:32:20.559
<v Speaker 2>I would have. I mean, if if I were a friend,

1:32:20.560 --> 1:32:23.160
<v Speaker 2>I would not have made a statement by not keeping

1:32:23.200 --> 1:32:25.679
<v Speaker 2>the money. I'd be like, thank you and goodbye forever.

1:32:25.720 --> 1:32:28.160
<v Speaker 1>This is mine. I deserve this one hundred dollars in

1:32:28.240 --> 1:32:31.280
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixties money that is one thousand dollars roughly in

1:32:31.320 --> 1:32:32.000
<v Speaker 1>today's money.

1:32:32.040 --> 1:32:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Buddy, let's freaking go to be fair.

1:32:34.240 --> 1:32:36.200
<v Speaker 3>She thought she was going to be dead, that's true,

1:32:36.280 --> 1:32:38.679
<v Speaker 3>so when she left the money, she had no use

1:32:38.760 --> 1:32:40.960
<v Speaker 3>for it. The only use for the money was to

1:32:40.960 --> 1:32:43.519
<v Speaker 3>say I don't forgive you feel bad that I'm dead,

1:32:44.000 --> 1:32:46.240
<v Speaker 3>which I'm like, Yeah, if she knew she was going

1:32:46.320 --> 1:32:48.599
<v Speaker 3>to live, yeah keep the money. But she didn't, and

1:32:48.640 --> 1:32:50.080
<v Speaker 3>so she got to use it as a fuck you,

1:32:50.320 --> 1:32:50.920
<v Speaker 3>which is cool.

1:32:51.000 --> 1:32:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Another example of Baxter big pro shell Drake where he's like,

1:32:54.720 --> 1:32:56.920
<v Speaker 2>I got one hundred dollars for you, where it's like, well,

1:32:57.640 --> 1:32:59.120
<v Speaker 2>just let her have, you know, like.

1:32:59.320 --> 1:33:02.120
<v Speaker 1>When she survived. It seems like the money gets returned

1:33:02.160 --> 1:33:04.920
<v Speaker 1>to chldreake again, but it's like, no, like, you're alive,

1:33:05.200 --> 1:33:07.880
<v Speaker 1>keep it, use it. It's one thousand dollars in twenty

1:33:07.880 --> 1:33:08.479
<v Speaker 1>twenty four men.

1:33:08.560 --> 1:33:11.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well he didn't really know what the money was

1:33:11.080 --> 1:33:11.799
<v Speaker 3>at that point.

1:33:11.960 --> 1:33:12.800
<v Speaker 1>That's true.

1:33:13.120 --> 1:33:15.719
<v Speaker 2>Uh, this movie passes the Bechdel test, folks.

1:33:15.760 --> 1:33:18.200
<v Speaker 1>It does good for it.

1:33:18.200 --> 1:33:24.040
<v Speaker 2>It passes primarily between Mildred and Fran when they are

1:33:24.160 --> 1:33:27.120
<v Speaker 2>talking about her recovery, which I feel like is very

1:33:27.160 --> 1:33:30.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, plat relevant, So it passes. I do think

1:33:30.320 --> 1:33:34.679
<v Speaker 2>that Fran again, like most women we see in movies

1:33:34.720 --> 1:33:38.120
<v Speaker 2>to this day, like it would be really cool if

1:33:38.160 --> 1:33:42.280
<v Speaker 2>she had a female friend. Yes, there's no shortage of

1:33:42.400 --> 1:33:45.479
<v Speaker 2>women in this workplace who are marginalized in much the

1:33:45.520 --> 1:33:47.800
<v Speaker 2>same way she is for her to talk to, And

1:33:47.840 --> 1:33:49.600
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that is the way in which it

1:33:49.680 --> 1:33:53.559
<v Speaker 2>sort of plays into a very like sparse story character

1:33:53.640 --> 1:33:57.400
<v Speaker 2>wise but also just how I think. So often, like

1:33:58.080 --> 1:34:03.840
<v Speaker 2>iconic women characters in older movies are often in a

1:34:03.960 --> 1:34:07.720
<v Speaker 2>bubble where they are the woman, where we know that

1:34:07.800 --> 1:34:09.800
<v Speaker 2>she lives with her sister, We assume that she has

1:34:09.880 --> 1:34:12.960
<v Speaker 2>some sort of close relationship with her sister, even though

1:34:12.960 --> 1:34:14.360
<v Speaker 2>it's like the only thing we know is like, your

1:34:14.360 --> 1:34:16.280
<v Speaker 2>sister thinks you're a lady. So it's like, well, maybe

1:34:16.280 --> 1:34:18.679
<v Speaker 2>her sister would slut shame her for being a person

1:34:18.720 --> 1:34:21.840
<v Speaker 2>who knows, But we're surrounded by all of these potential

1:34:22.160 --> 1:34:24.800
<v Speaker 2>women for her to be allied with. We don't really

1:34:24.840 --> 1:34:27.960
<v Speaker 2>see those conversations, and when we do, like with ms

1:34:28.040 --> 1:34:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Olsen and Friend, it's strictly, you know, centered on the

1:34:31.320 --> 1:34:34.720
<v Speaker 2>shell Drake issue, right, but it does pass. So there

1:34:34.760 --> 1:34:35.000
<v Speaker 2>you go.

1:34:35.200 --> 1:34:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Well, because this movie's only interested in Fran to the

1:34:39.200 --> 1:34:46.519
<v Speaker 1>extent that she has a blossoming relationship with C. C. Baxter,

1:34:46.880 --> 1:34:50.680
<v Speaker 1>and outside of that, the movie doesn't really have any interests.

1:34:50.200 --> 1:34:53.040
<v Speaker 2>And I disagree, I disagree.

1:34:53.479 --> 1:34:55.920
<v Speaker 3>I disagree that's not true at all.

1:34:56.439 --> 1:34:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Then why don't we see her at home, having an

1:34:58.920 --> 1:35:01.680
<v Speaker 1>interior life, having friendships, Like what.

1:35:01.880 --> 1:35:03.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that she's the protagonist, but I don't

1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:06.160
<v Speaker 2>think that means the movie is disinterested in her.

1:35:06.439 --> 1:35:08.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I think it's interested in her outside of

1:35:08.560 --> 1:35:11.400
<v Speaker 3>her relationship with Baxter, because I think that it's like

1:35:12.080 --> 1:35:15.280
<v Speaker 3>it understands that there's things about her that Baxter doesn't

1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:18.400
<v Speaker 3>understand because of his preoccupation with a relationship with her,

1:35:18.680 --> 1:35:21.120
<v Speaker 3>that she has all these other dimensions that he's not

1:35:21.240 --> 1:35:25.439
<v Speaker 3>seeing even though he has access to her insurance file,

1:35:26.080 --> 1:35:29.160
<v Speaker 3>Like he gets surprised with information about her that we

1:35:29.240 --> 1:35:31.960
<v Speaker 3>as the audience know, And I think that it's like

1:35:32.080 --> 1:35:34.280
<v Speaker 3>that shows that the movie has more of an interest

1:35:34.320 --> 1:35:35.479
<v Speaker 3>than he does in her.

1:35:36.520 --> 1:35:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I guess I wish we just saw more of

1:35:42.160 --> 1:35:46.120
<v Speaker 1>her life outside of what we see in the movie.

1:35:46.439 --> 1:35:49.120
<v Speaker 2>I very much would have liked to see her and

1:35:49.160 --> 1:35:51.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it would even take away from where

1:35:51.080 --> 1:35:52.960
<v Speaker 2>the focus of the movie seems to want to be.

1:35:53.160 --> 1:35:56.960
<v Speaker 2>To see her interact with other people at work and again,

1:35:57.040 --> 1:36:01.320
<v Speaker 2>like have a friendship. That seems like a fault of

1:36:01.360 --> 1:36:04.719
<v Speaker 2>the movie, especially because it's Billy Wilder movie. It should

1:36:04.720 --> 1:36:07.559
<v Speaker 2>be operating at a higher level, we are introduced to

1:36:07.800 --> 1:36:11.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of women, So for the interactions between women

1:36:11.080 --> 1:36:14.240
<v Speaker 2>to be so sparse feels telling about like where his

1:36:14.439 --> 1:36:16.639
<v Speaker 2>interests lie. But I don't think that that means that

1:36:16.680 --> 1:36:18.080
<v Speaker 2>the story is disinterested in her.

1:36:18.360 --> 1:36:21.160
<v Speaker 3>And I also think that thematically the movie is like

1:36:21.360 --> 1:36:25.479
<v Speaker 3>it's about this collection of some people who are who

1:36:25.520 --> 1:36:30.040
<v Speaker 3>when Christmas comes around, they're not needed anywhere, Like that's

1:36:30.160 --> 1:36:33.400
<v Speaker 3>part of why, Like he is an observer of other

1:36:33.400 --> 1:36:37.439
<v Speaker 3>people's lives who just like is doing like the insurance

1:36:37.479 --> 1:36:40.759
<v Speaker 3>information about like people who actually have families and things

1:36:40.800 --> 1:36:43.720
<v Speaker 3>going on, but he doesn't have that for himself. And

1:36:43.760 --> 1:36:48.120
<v Speaker 3>she is literally an elevator operator who's like she takes

1:36:48.160 --> 1:36:50.479
<v Speaker 3>people who have somewhere to go to the places that

1:36:50.520 --> 1:36:53.360
<v Speaker 3>they need to go, and she herself doesn't have those things.

1:36:53.760 --> 1:36:56.280
<v Speaker 3>And so I think even the fact that she has

1:36:56.320 --> 1:36:59.479
<v Speaker 3>a family the reason, Like it would be great to

1:36:59.520 --> 1:37:01.920
<v Speaker 3>see her with her family. But I feel like what's

1:37:02.120 --> 1:37:04.559
<v Speaker 3>important about her character in this movie is that like

1:37:05.280 --> 1:37:08.640
<v Speaker 3>she is being kept on the outside of life in

1:37:08.680 --> 1:37:12.000
<v Speaker 3>the same way that he is, and that like she

1:37:12.200 --> 1:37:15.600
<v Speaker 3>is unable to develop those relationships that you're asking to

1:37:15.640 --> 1:37:19.439
<v Speaker 3>see because of being held in this limbo with this

1:37:19.520 --> 1:37:23.240
<v Speaker 3>relationship with Sheldrake and just like being sort of an

1:37:23.240 --> 1:37:25.960
<v Speaker 3>intermediary in other people's lives, Like that's part of what

1:37:26.280 --> 1:37:27.679
<v Speaker 3>she's struggling with in the movie.

1:37:28.400 --> 1:37:33.880
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, well, with that mind, let's get to our metric,

1:37:34.040 --> 1:37:36.559
<v Speaker 2>the nipple scale. Yes, how you feel about the movie

1:37:36.640 --> 1:37:38.879
<v Speaker 2>on a scale of one to five nipples based on how.

1:37:38.960 --> 1:37:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Zero if sorry, wow, Jamie, we've had five hundred.

1:37:44.040 --> 1:37:48.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm so tired. You don't understand. So based on how

1:37:48.160 --> 1:37:51.120
<v Speaker 2>it deals with intersexual feminist themes.

1:37:50.960 --> 1:37:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Ooh, this is going to be a tricky one for me. Again,

1:37:55.360 --> 1:37:59.160
<v Speaker 1>of the women we do see on screen, it feels

1:37:59.240 --> 1:38:04.720
<v Speaker 1>like they're is like one or two respectable women, and

1:38:04.720 --> 1:38:10.120
<v Speaker 1>everyone else can't be taken seriously because they're the flings

1:38:10.200 --> 1:38:13.679
<v Speaker 1>of the men who are having these extra marital affairs.

1:38:13.720 --> 1:38:15.320
<v Speaker 1>And I just feel like a lot of kind of

1:38:15.360 --> 1:38:19.840
<v Speaker 1>tropes that were popular of women of the time are

1:38:19.880 --> 1:38:22.800
<v Speaker 1>present with a lot of these characters. I do like

1:38:23.439 --> 1:38:27.600
<v Speaker 1>fran as a character a lot. I just wish we

1:38:28.320 --> 1:38:32.599
<v Speaker 1>knew more about her, and maybe I think I also

1:38:32.760 --> 1:38:41.599
<v Speaker 1>just like don't have the language to understand what movies

1:38:41.640 --> 1:38:46.160
<v Speaker 1>from this era are trying to telegraph. To audiences as

1:38:46.240 --> 1:38:48.800
<v Speaker 1>much as I should, because there's a lot of stuff

1:38:48.800 --> 1:38:51.040
<v Speaker 1>that I just don't really pick up on and that

1:38:51.120 --> 1:38:55.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't interpret correctly. This happens every time I watch

1:38:55.040 --> 1:38:56.599
<v Speaker 1>an older movie. I'm just like, what are they even

1:38:56.640 --> 1:38:58.720
<v Speaker 1>trying to say? What are they telling me? Because I

1:38:58.800 --> 1:39:01.800
<v Speaker 1>just like my brain doesn't operate that way, I think. So,

1:39:02.720 --> 1:39:06.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how I feel about this movie. I

1:39:06.280 --> 1:39:09.280
<v Speaker 1>do want to say that, as is very typical of

1:39:09.920 --> 1:39:12.680
<v Speaker 1>movies of this era, which is a major reflection of

1:39:12.760 --> 1:39:18.439
<v Speaker 1>the rampant racism of the time. This is an entirely

1:39:18.479 --> 1:39:22.160
<v Speaker 1>white cast. There, I think, is one black man you

1:39:22.200 --> 1:39:24.200
<v Speaker 1>see on screen in the entire movie that's like the

1:39:24.240 --> 1:39:28.120
<v Speaker 1>only person of color that you would clock throughout the

1:39:28.280 --> 1:39:31.320
<v Speaker 1>entire movie. And again, as is typical of the movies

1:39:31.320 --> 1:39:34.439
<v Speaker 1>of this era, he's in a service role. He's shining

1:39:34.479 --> 1:39:37.360
<v Speaker 1>the shoes of mister Sheldrake. Aside from that, it's an

1:39:37.520 --> 1:39:39.160
<v Speaker 1>entirely white movie.

1:39:39.320 --> 1:39:42.960
<v Speaker 3>So, and there's the guy playing piano oh at the

1:39:43.080 --> 1:39:46.240
<v Speaker 3>Chinese restaurant who they do have a like his record

1:39:46.800 --> 1:39:48.880
<v Speaker 3>which is called Rickshaw Boy.

1:39:49.280 --> 1:39:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Uh not great, not good, not good.

1:39:53.160 --> 1:39:56.559
<v Speaker 1>There's a number of scenes at a Chinese restaurant. That right,

1:39:56.640 --> 1:39:59.360
<v Speaker 1>you do see some other people of color in the

1:39:59.400 --> 1:40:03.800
<v Speaker 1>background of those scenes. Again, no one really has any

1:40:03.840 --> 1:40:07.000
<v Speaker 1>significant speaking roles or anything like that unless you're a

1:40:07.000 --> 1:40:13.720
<v Speaker 1>white character in this movie. So I'll give the movie.

1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:17.880
<v Speaker 1>I honestly have no idea. I'll give it three nipples,

1:40:18.520 --> 1:40:22.160
<v Speaker 1>question Mark, two nipples, one nipple, four nipples. I have

1:40:22.320 --> 1:40:26.160
<v Speaker 1>no idea. I don't know how to watch movies from

1:40:26.200 --> 1:40:29.320
<v Speaker 1>before nineteen eighty the end.

1:40:29.880 --> 1:40:33.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go three Okay, nice, Yeah,

1:40:33.960 --> 1:40:35.559
<v Speaker 2>who would you like to give your nipples to.

1:40:36.040 --> 1:40:39.519
<v Speaker 1>I'll give one to Shirley McLain, I will give one

1:40:40.080 --> 1:40:45.880
<v Speaker 1>to missus Dreyfus, and I'll give my final nipple to

1:40:45.920 --> 1:40:50.080
<v Speaker 1>miss Olsen because again I feel like I projected some

1:40:50.120 --> 1:40:53.880
<v Speaker 1>stuff onto her and that was not fair of me

1:40:54.360 --> 1:40:54.600
<v Speaker 1>to do.

1:40:56.120 --> 1:40:57.320
<v Speaker 3>It's good to be honest.

1:40:57.560 --> 1:40:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'll settle on three nipples, and I have no

1:40:59.760 --> 1:41:03.280
<v Speaker 1>idea if that's actually how I feel or not, because

1:41:03.560 --> 1:41:06.559
<v Speaker 1>again I don't know how to watch old movies.

1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:10.639
<v Speaker 3>I think you're overthinking it. I think you're like wondering

1:41:10.640 --> 1:41:12.680
<v Speaker 3>what this movie is trying to telegraph, and it's not

1:41:12.760 --> 1:41:15.680
<v Speaker 3>trying to say something like it's trying to make you

1:41:15.760 --> 1:41:19.519
<v Speaker 3>think about questions. I think it's like it feels like

1:41:19.600 --> 1:41:24.879
<v Speaker 3>it's trying to challenge, like who's getting left behind? Yeah,

1:41:24.920 --> 1:41:27.000
<v Speaker 3>and make you think about that, you know what I mean.

1:41:27.240 --> 1:41:30.040
<v Speaker 3>Like it's talking about what's happening at the margins, you

1:41:30.040 --> 1:41:30.559
<v Speaker 3>know what I mean.

1:41:31.280 --> 1:41:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Which I enjoy stories the center, those characters and that

1:41:36.000 --> 1:41:39.519
<v Speaker 1>type of narrative. But I don't know, like, at the

1:41:39.600 --> 1:41:41.400
<v Speaker 1>end of the day, while I do think the movie

1:41:41.400 --> 1:41:46.120
<v Speaker 1>is well written, I just it's just not really for

1:41:46.280 --> 1:41:50.360
<v Speaker 1>me and I have nothing else to say about it.

1:41:50.640 --> 1:41:52.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm going for a nipples. Yeah, I have nothing else

1:41:52.520 --> 1:41:55.479
<v Speaker 2>to say because I have to pee and leave, so

1:41:56.400 --> 1:42:00.559
<v Speaker 2>I and I'm going to give one to you Fran,

1:42:01.200 --> 1:42:04.960
<v Speaker 2>one to miss Olsen, and I'm gonna give one to

1:42:05.720 --> 1:42:08.479
<v Speaker 2>missus Sheldrake while I'm at it, because I hope she

1:42:08.600 --> 1:42:12.320
<v Speaker 2>was on to bigger, better, less piece of shit flop

1:42:12.520 --> 1:42:17.559
<v Speaker 2>husband type activities hell yeah, following this movie, and those

1:42:17.560 --> 1:42:18.720
<v Speaker 2>are where my nipples are gonna go.

1:42:18.880 --> 1:42:21.960
<v Speaker 3>Nice Emily, I'm gonna give it three nipples. I'm gonna

1:42:21.960 --> 1:42:23.519
<v Speaker 3>give one to Fran and then I'm going to give

1:42:23.520 --> 1:42:25.960
<v Speaker 3>the other two to that woman whose jockey husband was

1:42:26.000 --> 1:42:29.519
<v Speaker 3>being held hostage in Cuba because she was supposed to

1:42:29.560 --> 1:42:32.040
<v Speaker 3>have sex that night and she didn't get to have sex.

1:42:32.560 --> 1:42:35.240
<v Speaker 2>And she was appropriately pissed off about it, where she

1:42:35.360 --> 1:42:38.000
<v Speaker 2>was like, we made the lonely person's packed.

1:42:38.360 --> 1:42:43.840
<v Speaker 3>How could you? What the hell is going on here?

1:42:44.280 --> 1:42:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and she was so excited that she was gonna

1:42:46.360 --> 1:42:49.240
<v Speaker 1>fuck the guy who's like, I'm a sex pot. She's like,

1:42:49.240 --> 1:42:50.200
<v Speaker 1>you're a sex pot.

1:42:50.320 --> 1:42:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Woo. Yeah, which I feel like the movie's and on

1:42:53.760 --> 1:42:56.360
<v Speaker 2>the joke, like the number one indication that someone is

1:42:56.400 --> 1:42:59.040
<v Speaker 2>not actually a sex pot is if they cannot stop

1:42:59.080 --> 1:43:04.160
<v Speaker 2>saying that. Yeah, it's always who you least suspect. Yeah,

1:43:04.200 --> 1:43:06.799
<v Speaker 2>all right, well that's the apartment Everily, thank.

1:43:06.680 --> 1:43:08.640
<v Speaker 3>You so much for joining us, my gosh, thank you

1:43:08.680 --> 1:43:10.519
<v Speaker 3>for having me, and thank you for getting me to

1:43:10.560 --> 1:43:13.280
<v Speaker 3>watch this movie that I probably wouldn't have watched us

1:43:13.360 --> 1:43:14.680
<v Speaker 3>quickly because I loved it.

1:43:14.760 --> 1:43:19.240
<v Speaker 1>Any time? Where can people check out your podcast? Follow

1:43:19.240 --> 1:43:20.679
<v Speaker 1>you on social media, et cetera.

1:43:21.280 --> 1:43:24.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm at mister Emily Heller on all social media, and

1:43:24.200 --> 1:43:28.000
<v Speaker 3>you can subscribe to what is a Jeopardy Podcast wherever

1:43:28.080 --> 1:43:29.760
<v Speaker 3>you get your podcasts oooh.

1:43:31.080 --> 1:43:34.559
<v Speaker 1>You can follow us on social media as while at

1:43:34.560 --> 1:43:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Bechdel Cast. You can go to our link tree link

1:43:37.960 --> 1:43:41.640
<v Speaker 1>tree slash Bechtel Cast and grab tickets to our upcoming

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<v Speaker 1>tour in the UK at the end of May. And

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<v Speaker 1>you can go to our Patreon Patreon dot com slash

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<v Speaker 1>Bechdel Cast, where you get two bonus episodes every month

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<v Speaker 1>plus access to the Beck catalog for five dollars a month.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, And you can get our merch over at tipublic

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<v Speaker 2>dot com slash v Bechdel Cast. Get our tickets to

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<v Speaker 2>our upcoming tour in the UK if you haven't already

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<v Speaker 2>on our link tree. And with that, let's give up

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<v Speaker 2>our apartment and wander into the unknown.

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<v Speaker 1>Woo Hi Hi. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,

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<v Speaker 1>hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman,

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<v Speaker 1>edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Volskrosensky. Our logo in

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<v Speaker 1>merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks

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<v Speaker 1>to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please

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<v Speaker 1>visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast