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Speaker 1: Burn attention Beck to cast listeners.

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Speaker 2: We're going on tour.

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Speaker 1: We really are. And it's not just any tour. It's

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Speaker 1: a tour in the UK and it's a tour where

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Speaker 1: we are covering Titanic and.

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Speaker 2: Shrek brilliantly titled the Shrek Tannic Tour. Yes, Shrek Tornic.

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Speaker 2: We're working on it. There's a couple there's a couple

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Speaker 2: months before the tour, but yes, we're really excited. We're

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Speaker 2: currently doing five shows in the UK, with more shows

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Speaker 2: to be added. Stay tuned at the end of May.

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Speaker 1: Yes, starting with two shows in London on May twenty second,

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Speaker 1: once at six point thirty that's a Shrek show, one

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Speaker 1: at nine pm that is a Titanic show. Then we

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Speaker 1: are scooting over to Oxford on May twenty fourth we

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Speaker 1: are covering Titanic. Okay, Then we're scooting up to Edinburgh

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Speaker 1: on May twenty sixth and doing Strek.

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Speaker 2: If you're a Scottish Titanic fan, you are going to

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Speaker 2: have to commute. And I know that that's not but listen, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you live in Edinburgh recovering Shrek.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but also you're welcome. And then

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Speaker 1: if you do want to see Titanic, you can head

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Speaker 1: down to Manchester. We're doing a show on May twenty eighth,

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Speaker 1: and that's a Titanic show.

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Speaker 2: So as your Bechdel Cast allies in the US can

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Speaker 2: attest to. Our live shows are super fun. It is

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Speaker 2: like a live episode plus a bunch of fun stuff.

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Speaker 2: We dress up, we bring audience members on stage sometimes

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Speaker 2: we do. It's just it's big and goofy and silly.

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Speaker 2: And we're covering two of our favorite movies that are

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Speaker 2: Bechtel Cast canon, so we want to have a good time.

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Speaker 2: We'll be bringing exclusive merch and we will be doing

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Speaker 2: meet and greets before and after the show. We want

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Speaker 2: to meet everybody and we're really really excited. So if

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Speaker 2: you if you live in those areas, get those dang

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Speaker 2: tickets because these shows will sell.

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Speaker 1: Out, Yes they will, So head over to our link

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Speaker 1: Tree link Tree slash Bechdel Cast. All the tickets are

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Speaker 1: posted there. And like we said, we're working on at

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Speaker 1: least one more show in a different city, so stay tuned.

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Speaker 1: We're hoping to announce that soon. And otherwise, grab your

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Speaker 1: tickets for the Shrektanic.

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Speaker 2: And enjoy the episode on the Bechdel cast.

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Speaker 3: The questions asked if movies have.

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Speaker 4: Women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 4: husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephi

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Speaker 4: bast start changing with the Bechdel cast.

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Speaker 1: Hey, mister Jamie, Yes, mister Caitlyn, I'm mister Caitlin to you,

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: Yes, mister Kaitlin, I'm gonna.

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Speaker 1: Need you to give me the key to your apartment

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Speaker 1: so I can fu a bunch of people there, and

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Speaker 1: then I'll give you a promotion.

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Speaker 2: Maybe Okay, Well, here's the thing. You'll never see me

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Speaker 2: change the sheets. It's maybe implied that I did, but

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Speaker 2: it's not really implied that I did. So if you're

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Speaker 2: cool with me getting promoted and maybe sleeping on your com,

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Speaker 2: that's okay with me, mister Caitlin. Is Jack Lemon sleeping

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Speaker 2: on his boss has come the whole mooks? So he

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Speaker 2: comes home and he's so tired, and I like his

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Speaker 2: posture isn't that of someone who has the energy to

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Speaker 2: change their sheets?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? No, yeah, so he's sleeping and come and I

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Speaker 1: don't care about that. I just care that you buy

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Speaker 1: me a bunch of alcohol.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming you're not paying me enough to keep the

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Speaker 2: var stocked. But like you know, fingers crossed for a promotion,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to boy boss my way to the top

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Speaker 2: of insurance.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand the logistics of the sex apartment economy,

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Speaker 1: but what I.

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Speaker 2: I love it. It's so movie where who knows why

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Speaker 2: they need to fucket his apartment but he's sleeping, got

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Speaker 2: his bosses come that. Really, I couldn't stop thinking about

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Speaker 2: that the whole time because then Shirley McClain, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: now she's in the cum sheets on the worst day

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Speaker 2: of her life. Come on, I know, I hope he

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Speaker 2: changed the sheets for her. Doubt it, Jesus doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: like it, because the scenes moved so quickly. I hope

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Speaker 2: the doctor insisted. I feel like he, of anyone in

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Speaker 2: the movie, would be like, hold on, maybe we should

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Speaker 2: change the sheets. Anyways. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My

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Speaker 2: name's Jamie Loftis.

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Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Derante. This is our show where

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Speaker 1: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate

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Speaker 1: larger conversations but the Bechdel Test, Yes, what is it?

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Speaker 2: Well, Caitlyn, I can tell you, as I've said close

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Speaker 2: to five hundred times before. Isn't that scared? Anyways, They're Bechdel.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm going to fuck it up. The bechel Test

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Speaker 2: is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel, often

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Speaker 2: called the Bechdel Wallace Test because she co created it

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Speaker 2: with her friend Liz Wallace. Originally appeared in Alison Bechdel's

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Speaker 2: iconic comic collection Dykes to Watch out For and was

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Speaker 2: originally about a more intersectional test than it tends to

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Speaker 2: be used, as it was pointing out that women rarely

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Speaker 2: speak to each other in movies as a way of

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Speaker 2: talking about how queer women are never in movies and

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Speaker 2: never have relationships with each other. In any case, it

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Speaker 2: was written as a bit and then became a metric

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Speaker 2: that people used to this day. The version we used

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Speaker 2: to start the discussion is or end the discussion, really

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Speaker 2: is we require that there be two characters of a

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Speaker 2: marginalized gender with names who talk to each other about

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Speaker 2: something other than a man for more than two lines

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Speaker 2: of dialogue, and it should be meaningful dialogue. For example,

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Speaker 2: if you are the doctor's his wife and you're talking

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Speaker 2: about chicken soup with Charlie McClain.

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Speaker 1: That may be a.

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Speaker 2: Pass wow, but today we are continuing. It's been a

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Speaker 2: Billy Wilder year for us. It really is.

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Speaker 1: It's true because we just covered Sunset Boulevard not long ago.

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Speaker 1: Looks like we will be covering if we haven't already

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Speaker 1: by the time this episode gets released. But it's a

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Speaker 1: classic movie march on our Matreon and it appears as

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Speaker 1: though the two movies that are going to win the

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Speaker 1: poll are Singing in the Rain and Billy Wilder's Some

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Speaker 1: Like It Hot.

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Speaker 2: And today we're covering the Apartment with an incredible guest.

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Speaker 2: Let's get her in the mix.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. She's a comedian, TV writer, and host

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Speaker 1: of the upcoming Jeopardy podcast entitled What Is a Jeopardy Podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can also check out her Comedy Central special Ice

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Speaker 1: Thickeners and her album Pasta. It's Emily Hiller. Welcome back.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me so excited

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Speaker 3: to be talking about this, especially as someone who I think,

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Speaker 3: prior to this past year, had seen zero Billy Wilder

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Speaker 3: movies and now I think I've seen like five wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So it's like it's been a Billy Wilder year for

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Speaker 3: me too nice.

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Speaker 2: What brought it out? It feels like he's back. He's

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Speaker 2: with us again.

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Speaker 3: What he's not?

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Speaker 2: Like he's Jesus, He's back. What threw you into the

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Speaker 2: Billy Wilder expanded universe?

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Speaker 3: So I'm like, famously not a movie person.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Yes, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: I should not be here.

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Speaker 3: I so it like it kind of takes a lot

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Speaker 3: for me to like get into watching movies, but I

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Speaker 3: recently sort of decided I want to learn how to

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Speaker 3: write a farce movie, and so I just have been

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Speaker 3: watching a ton and so I've been getting recommendations for

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Speaker 3: people and like working my way through lists, and it

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Speaker 3: just so happens that Billy Wilder is like a master

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Speaker 3: of that genre also, and so we watch some like

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Speaker 3: it hot, we watch Midnight.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I haven't seen that.

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Speaker 3: It's so good and so farcy and so wild is

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Speaker 3: it Wilder?

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Speaker 2: Though? Thank you for taking that. I was like, are

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Speaker 2: we going to leave it on the floor?

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Speaker 1: No, I'm going to pick it up and put it

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Speaker 1: where it belongs.

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Speaker 2: They're professional.

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Speaker 3: It's like the most complicated farst plot ever, where it's

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Speaker 3: like this like woman gambler drifter comes into town and

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Speaker 3: sneaks into this high society event and she gets sniffed

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Speaker 3: out by this guy who then hires her to seduce

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Speaker 3: away the man who is culding him. Whoa, And she's

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Speaker 3: pretending to be like a duchess the whole time. And

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Speaker 3: meanwhile there is this like taxi driver who has fallen

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Speaker 3: in love with her, who's like hunting her down, and

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Speaker 3: it's just the it culminates in this like incredible ballroom scene.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's really it's really great. But then yeah,

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Speaker 3: we also watched Sunset Boulevard and The Apartment was one

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Speaker 3: of the ones where it had been kind of recommended

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Speaker 3: for the farce list. But it's not a farce. It's

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Speaker 3: absolutely not a farce.

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Speaker 2: No, it's like, I love how like ambiguous it is

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Speaker 2: in genre too, because it like switches a couple of

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Speaker 2: different times.

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Speaker 3: Yes, there are some like real hard cuts between like

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Speaker 3: genre scenes too, where you're like it'll go from the

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Speaker 3: most dramatic moment of the movie to like one of

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Speaker 3: the funniest visuals of the whole thing. But it does

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Speaker 3: have like a lot in common with his other like

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Speaker 3: farce films or just it's just like the very tight

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Speaker 3: writing and the very efficient character intros and stuff like

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Speaker 3: he's just so good at that for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so excited that you've done so many I

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Speaker 2: want to much Midnight now, right.

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Speaker 3: It's so good. Yeah, it's kind of a b side

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Speaker 3: of his Yeah, it was really. It was like one

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Speaker 3: of those ones where it was like a bunch of

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Speaker 3: the movies on the list, like something like it Hot.

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Speaker 3: It was very easy to find where to stream that,

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Speaker 3: but Midnight I feel like we ended up watching it

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Speaker 3: like streaming on some like weird Russian like YouTube or something,

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Speaker 3: so it's harder to track down because I mean the

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Speaker 3: ending I don't I think is like maybe not that good.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's not like a classic. But yeah, there

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Speaker 3: are some others on the list that I can recommend

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Speaker 3: as well. But yeah, I'm still watching farce as. I'm

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Speaker 3: still enjoying them. But it has gotten me to watch

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Speaker 3: more movies, which like, for some reason it needs to

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Speaker 3: be part of a series like TV's really easy for

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Speaker 3: me because I'm like, I understand where this fits in

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Speaker 3: with everything else I'm watching, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: But for movies, it just feels like, I don't know

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Speaker 3: why it's so hard for me to like get hard

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Speaker 3: for a movie.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love it. I'm like, give me just a

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Speaker 1: single isolated story that I don't have to keep watching

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Speaker 1: these characters again.

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Speaker 2: The things Caitlin has seen in theaters who would turn

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Speaker 2: your head around three hundred and sixty years it's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I saw stump the yard and theaters twice hell yea wow,

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Speaker 1: you know, and others. But anyway, well, before we talk

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Speaker 1: much more about Billy Wilder and the Apartment, tell us

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Speaker 1: about your podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very excited. I'm starting a new podcast with

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Speaker 3: my friend John Colin called What Is a Jeopardy Podcast,

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Speaker 3: which was sort of born out of the fact that

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Speaker 3: like John and I became friends because we are Jeopardy.

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Speaker 2: Fans, Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, it was like I was just like on

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Speaker 3: Twitter looking for someone to say something about something that

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Speaker 3: was like grinding my gears about a certain Jeopardy contestant,

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Speaker 3: and I found John tweeting about it. And we also

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Speaker 3: realized that there are no Jeopardy podcasts. There's just the

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Speaker 3: official one and that's it.

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Speaker 2: Really.

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Speaker 3: There are no like good I mean there have been

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Speaker 3: like a few that have like no listeners. Wow, burn

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Speaker 3: I listened to like one or two of them, and

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Speaker 3: they sound like they're being done at gunpoint.

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Speaker 2: That is always I'm always, like really delighted to find

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Speaker 2: that there are podcasts that still do not exist, and

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Speaker 2: especially because now I get to listen to you talking

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Speaker 2: about Jeopardy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's no comedy podcast about Jeopardy. Forgive me.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong, but work

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Speaker 3: on your pr if that's the case, because I didn't

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Speaker 3: find you.

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Speaker 2: Come on the show.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm very excited, especially just because weirdly, Jeopardy

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Speaker 3: has gone through a few changes in the last few years,

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Speaker 3: aside from just like the death of Alex Trebek, which

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Speaker 3: led to that like very tumultuous search for a new host,

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Speaker 3: but they also have new executive producers who have been

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Speaker 3: developing this like sort of more tournament forward culture there

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Speaker 3: I guess where they're really sort of fostering more like

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Speaker 3: Jeopardy celebs, like personalities who they keep bringing back for

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Speaker 3: various tournaments and stuff, so you get more familiar with

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Speaker 3: the people who are on the show, and it just

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Speaker 3: feels like, there is a lot to talk about, and

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Speaker 3: we're launching with the start of the Tournament of Champions,

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Speaker 3: which was delayed because of the writers strike and is

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Speaker 3: the biggest pool of contestants that they've ever had in

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Speaker 3: the Tournament of Champions. Also, for the first time in

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Speaker 3: Jeopardy history, the winner of Celebrity Jeopardy is competing in

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Speaker 3: the regular Tournament of Champions.

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Speaker 2: Wait, they're throwing a celebrity out into yeah, among the normies.

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Speaker 3: The winner of Celebrity Jeopardy for season thirty nine was

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Speaker 3: Ike Barenholtz, and they invited him to compete in the

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Speaker 3: Tournament of Champions.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Ike Barenholtz, that skins. Oh yeah, he has the

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Speaker 2: vibe of someone who would excel at Jeopardy. I'm calling

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Speaker 2: him a dork.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Well, he had auditioned for Jeopardy before he

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Speaker 3: was famous.

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Speaker 2: H that's cool.

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Speaker 3: So he was like, he trained, he was excited, he

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Speaker 3: was ready and yeah. So he's competing and like he's

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Speaker 3: matched up against one of like the top five seeds

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Speaker 3: of the season, so he's gonna get his ass handed

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Speaker 3: to him. And it's very exciting, amazing. But it's like

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Speaker 3: the guy who's probably gonna beat him is like one

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Speaker 3: of clearly the nicest people who you will ever see

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Speaker 3: on Jeopardy. And he's also the guy who helped not

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Speaker 3: scab for the TOC.

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Speaker 2: He's like, oh, okay, I was curious because I know

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Speaker 2: that that was a huge thing with Jeopardy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was a huge thing this year where they

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Speaker 3: were going to proceed with the Tournament of Champions even

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Speaker 3: as the Jeopardy writers were on strike, and they were

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Speaker 3: going to do it using reused clues, so they were

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Speaker 3: going to do it without the writers. And ray La Land,

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Speaker 3: who is a professional set decorator from Canada, went online

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Speaker 3: and was like, as a union man, I cannot in

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Speaker 3: good conscience compete in the Tournament of Champions if it's

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Speaker 3: going to happen without the participation of the Guild writers.

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Speaker 3: And all of the other top seeds of the tournament

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Speaker 3: were like, we're with you, ray I love that, and

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Speaker 3: so yeah, it was like a beautiful nerdy snowball that

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Speaker 3: really warmed my heart. And that's the guy who's probably

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Speaker 3: gonna kick Ike's ass in the first round.

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Speaker 2: Good for him. I hope that, you know. I Barenholtz

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Speaker 2: is like, you know, I mean if you got to

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Speaker 2: get your ass handed to you by someone. It might

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Speaker 2: as well be a good person.

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Speaker 3: Might as well be ray La Land, the sweetest man

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Speaker 3: in Jeopardy history. But yeah, so I'm I'm very excited.

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Speaker 3: Our first episode is going to air the week after

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Speaker 3: the first full week of the Tournament of Champions, so

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Speaker 3: we're going to get right into it. Two very big

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Speaker 3: Jeopardy fans who are not smart enough to be on

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Speaker 3: Jeopardy just talking shit about everyone's favorite game show.

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Speaker 1: Love it.

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Speaker 2: Hell, yes, Oh, I'm so excited to listen. I also

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Speaker 2: like it's always like when I'm listening to a podcast

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Speaker 2: about a show, I'm always fifty thousand times more likely

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Speaker 2: to actually engage with the show and like have a

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Speaker 2: ritual and oh, I'm so excited.

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Speaker 3: Oh good. Yeah, we're hoping that it will still be

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Speaker 3: like appealing to people who haven't watched every episode from

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Speaker 3: the week before. Like it's gonna be fast moving, it's

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Speaker 3: gonna be basically covering the games from the week before,

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Speaker 3: but there's always stuff that John catches that I missed,

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Speaker 3: and like hopefully there are things that I catch that

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Speaker 3: John missed, And then there's just like general Jeopardy chat

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Speaker 3: and like we end every episode with some like deep

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Speaker 3: dive on one of the topics from Final Jeopardy, just

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Speaker 3: so we can learn more about it and hopefully be

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Speaker 3: better at trivia in the future. So hopefully there's enough

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Speaker 3: in there even if you aren't like a diehard Jeopardy fan.

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Speaker 2: Loveully, I'm excited.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Well, back to the Apartment, I guess seamless seamless?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, wonderful dismount.

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Speaker 2: What is a nineteen sixty movie that was marketed as

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Speaker 2: a comedy but also takes a hard turn in the

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Speaker 2: second act?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What is the Apartment? Anyway? So, Emily, you had not

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Speaker 1: seen it until pretty recently, is that right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I watched it on Monday, Okay, well there you go.

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Speaker 3: Or Tuesday, Yeah, I watched it very recently. Yes, I

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Speaker 3: watched it this week. I'm very excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the folds.

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Speaker 3: And weirdly, I watched it on Tuesday night and Tuesday

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Speaker 3: in the morning, I was like talking to one of

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Speaker 3: my coworkers and I was like, how's it going, what

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Speaker 3: did you get up to last night? And he was like,

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Speaker 3: I watched The Apartment was so good, And I was

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Speaker 3: like Oh my gosh, I'm about to watch it.

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Speaker 1: What a coincidence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, something's in the air. Billy Wilder is like, I've

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Speaker 2: been seeing that a lot of my friends are watching

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Speaker 2: his stuff on letterbox. I'm like, I don't know what

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Speaker 2: it is, but he's back. He's back, He's.

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Speaker 1: Back his ghost.

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Speaker 2: I hope the farce is back. I feel like it's

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Speaker 2: been a slow push and return to farce appreciation.

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Speaker 3: I have a lot of reason to think that Farce

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Speaker 3: is coming back.

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Speaker 2: God that would fucking rock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope. So, not to brag or anything, but

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Speaker 1: Jamie and I moderated a Q and a panel for

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Speaker 1: bottoms and bottoms feels very farcy to me.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I've got to see it. I still haven't seen it,

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Speaker 3: but that is a good argument for me to see

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Speaker 3: it now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's aesome.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that my you know, not to

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Speaker 3: defer to what a man says, but one of the

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Speaker 3: things that my that my husband said that as we've

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Speaker 3: been talking about Farce just sort of incessantly for the

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Speaker 3: last year and a half, is he was like, I

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Speaker 3: feel like the fact that maximalism is so big now

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Speaker 3: means that it is the right time for first to

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Speaker 3: come back, because fars movies are about like just so

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Speaker 3: many plots coming in and coming together, like it's things

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Speaker 3: piled on things. But again, this movie is not a farce.

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Speaker 1: Right, But we'll cover more farces in the future on

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Speaker 1: the podcasts. We will, Jamie, what is your history with

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Speaker 1: The Apartment?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I have a pretty extensive history with this movie.

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Speaker 2: I know that because we just covered Sunset Boulevard. I

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Speaker 2: will glaze over it quickly. But I took a class

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Speaker 2: in college bravely called Wilder, Allen and Kaufman, a concept

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Speaker 2: that has aged really well across the board. But where,

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Speaker 2: oh my cat's here? Where everyone Casper is present? Casper? Okay, listeners.

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Speaker 2: Casper's newer to the mix, so you might be on

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Speaker 2: a first name basis with him, as you are with Flea. However,

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Speaker 2: Casper's superpower is that he can watch whole movies with me.

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Speaker 2: He can sit motionless for two hours, eyes locked like Casp.

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Speaker 2: I made him a letterboxed account because he is watching it.

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Speaker 2: His system is five stars if he did fall asleep,

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Speaker 2: one star if he did And that's his system. But

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Speaker 2: we watched The Apartment.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I took a class where there was

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Speaker 2: a whole sort of like section. We talked about Billy

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Speaker 2: Wilder movies for a month and I really really loved it.

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Speaker 2: The Alan portion of the class I got in trouble

390
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Speaker 2: a couple of times, but the Wilder part was my favorite.

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Speaker 2: I really kind of fell in love with Sunset Boulevard.

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Speaker 2: I really loved the Apartment. I mean we were sort

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Speaker 2: of covering the hits. I wish we had been encouraged

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Speaker 2: to watch the b sides. Maybe we were and I

395
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Speaker 2: was drunk, I don't know, like I was twenty, I

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Speaker 2: don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but the.

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Speaker 2: Apartment was one of my favorites that we covered. I

399
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Speaker 2: really loved it. I had never seen a movie quite

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Speaker 2: like it at the time, And yeah, I have watched

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Speaker 2: it a couple of times over the years since then,

402
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Speaker 2: and it very least cemented my permanent and enduring love

403
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Speaker 2: of Shirley maclain. Just such a rare, wonderful like every

404
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: era of her career is unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: I mean, especially for me, who, like, for the first

406
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Speaker 3: thirty years of my life, the only thing I knew

407
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Speaker 3: about Shirley McLain I knew from the Animaniacs opening theme

408
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 3: songs that she maybe uses a crystal ball that was

409
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 3: all about her that for many years, it's still the

410
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Speaker 3: first thing I think about when I hear her name,

411
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Speaker 3: because I was just the exact right age for the

412
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Speaker 3: animaniacs to imprint on me that same Shirley McLain was

413
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Speaker 3: like a woo woo psychic god bless.

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Speaker 2: I remember that now, but I haven't thought about that

415
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 2: in like twenty years. That's so before college. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: familiar with anything she had done when she was younger.

417
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Speaker 2: And she's incredible in this movie. I really love. I

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Speaker 2: feel like, for its time, it's doing so many things

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Speaker 2: that no movies are doing, which is how I feel

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Speaker 2: about most Billy Wilder movies. And yeah, I really enjoyed

421
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Speaker 2: this movie. I was really excited that you wanted to

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Speaker 2: revisit it with us, And there's so much to talk about.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's stuff that this movie does that feels

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Speaker 2: very dated, but there's a lot of stuff this movie

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Speaker 2: does that I feel like rarely shows up in movies.

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Speaker 2: Now it's wild It's Wilder, we have to do that.

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Speaker 3: Every time we do.

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Speaker 1: Or or Billy Wilder's ghost who is just haunting the

429
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Speaker 1: world and compelling us to watch all of his movies

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Speaker 1: will kill us.

431
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Speaker 2: He's so back. Yeah, it's true. We are being haunted

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Speaker 2: by Billy Wilder's ghost. That's just like a new marketing

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Speaker 2: thing we're trying. Long story short, I really love and

434
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Speaker 2: appreciate this movie. Can't Live was your history with The Apartment?

435
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Speaker 1: I had only seen it once before in my span

436
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Speaker 1: of the two or three years where I was in

437
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Speaker 1: undergrad getting my first of many degrees in film. I

438
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Speaker 1: don't talk about it as much because it's not nearly

439
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: as impressive as my master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University.

440
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: It is exceptional, thank you so much.

441
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 2: Never done anything like it.

442
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: In any case. When I was in undergrad, I took

443
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: it upon myself to just try to watch basically every

444
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: movie that was ever referenced in any of my textbooks

445
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: or just that had any historical significance. So I would

446
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: watch like three movies a day. I don't know how

447
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: I managed it, because these days it takes me three

448
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: days to watch a movie. And so I watched The Apartment,

449
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: and it's not my favorite among Billy Wilder's OOVRA. I

450
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: think it's because I find Jack Lemon's character to be

451
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: a spineless pooh poo head wow, get his ass, I will.

452
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: I just he rubbed me the wrong way. And I

453
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: love Shirley McLay, but her character, I just wish she

454
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: was more active or just was given the opportunity to

455
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: be more active in this movie. There were things about

456
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: it that didn't appeal to my sensibilities very much. So

457
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: I think it's a good movie, and I think it's

458
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: well written in everything. But if I have to choose

459
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: a movie that I want that I'm gonna have a

460
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: fun time watching, it's probably not going to be The Apartment. Sorry.

461
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 2: Well, to be fair, I don't think anyone's coming to

462
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: this movie for a fun time necessarily.

463
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.

464
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 3: It's chocolate Block with characters where you're like you want

465
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 3: to grab them by the shoulders and shake them and

466
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 3: be like what are you doing?

467
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: Yes?

468
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, CC In particular, you're just like, oh my god,

469
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 2: we are still caping for like mister Pep at this

470
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: late hour in the movie, we're still like, well, maybe

471
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: mister Pep is a good guy.

472
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, CC Baxter more like Pep Baxter.

473
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 2: See, I wouldn't go that far. I don't hate CEC.

474
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: I like CC. I feel like he grows a lot.

475
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: I don't think that the end line of the movie

476
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 2: is good. The ending of the movie is very movie.

477
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: I don't know.

478
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it.

479
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of like it belongs in the sort

480
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 3: of like historical canon of the like nice guy protagonists

481
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 3: like nice Guy are slash nice guys.

482
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 5: Uh.

483
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 3: But I felt like it was weirdly like a better

484
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 3: take on that than like even more modern films like

485
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 3: you root for him more than you do for like

486
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 3: Ducky from.

487
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: Like Yes, I was thinking about Pretty in Pink a

488
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: lot during this movie. Okay, I mean, I guess partially

489
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 2: just because this movie is now my dad's age, dosing

490
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: him much like CC docs and stocks fran Oh god. Yeah,

491
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: So I mean it's like old and it's hard to

492
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: not watch this movie by like not comparing it to

493
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 2: other movies. But yeah, I feel like CC is at

494
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: least a more well. He is deeply imperfect, and I

495
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 2: feel like let off the hook for things that a

496
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: modern good movie would not let him off the hook for.

497
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: I still think he's like doing laps around the quote

498
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 2: unquote underdog loser characters of the eighties who are like,

499
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: you know, Revenge of the nerds, like murdering and assaulting

500
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: women and still coming out on top where it's a

501
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 2: bad yardstick.

502
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you get the feeling that he doesn't feel as

503
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 3: entitled to anything like Yeah, he still wants it to

504
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 3: go a different way, but it feels like he takes

505
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: no for an answer a little bit better than other

506
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: movie characters. Still not as well as he should but better. Yeah.

507
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 1: Better.

508
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 2: We'll get into CC.

509
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

510
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so much to talk I mean, this movie

511
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 2: has shades of gray that are like challenging in ways

512
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: that I'm like, I don't know if they were intended

513
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: to be challenging at the time, but I'm excited to

514
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:57,479
Speaker 2: talk about it.

515
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. So let's take a quick break and then we'll

516
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: come back for the recap. And we're back, okay, So

517
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: here is the recap for the Apartment. I will place

518
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: a content warning at the top here for suicide. So

519
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,479
Speaker 1: we are in New York City. Ever heard of it?

520
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: And it's about the same time that the movie came out.

521
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: The movie came out in nineteen sixty I think the

522
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,239
Speaker 1: movie takes place in late nineteen fifty nine. We are

523
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: getting voiceover from C. C. Baxter play by Jack Lemon.

524
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: He works at a large insurance company, and he often

525
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: stays late at the office until it's all right for

526
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: him to go home because he rents out his apartment

527
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: the titular apartment too, and then from his company who

528
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: are having extramarital affairs and who need a discreete place

529
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: to fuck.

530
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 5: Right.

531
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 2: But he's kind of like renting for aspirational cloud, Like

532
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: he is not charging for this service, right while he

533
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: is fully stocking, like he's providing the services of the Marriotte,

534
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: but he is not being paid. It seems like he's

535
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: working ahead a loss. It's like doing stand up comedy, right.

536
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of the rotisserie chicken at Costco where

537
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: you're like, it's a lost leader, but it gets people

538
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: in the door, exactly same with the hot dogs.

539
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: I was curious if he was charging or what. But

540
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: I'm also like, I don't think so. These men are

541
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: all higher above him in this like hierarchy at the office.

542
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: They presumably get paid better. They're like, you know, middle

543
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: or up or management. Why don't they just like go

544
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: split se on an apartment that they would have more

545
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: easy access to. I don't know. I had some logistical questions.

546
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: I was thinking about that the whole movie, and I

547
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 3: think it really it ultimately boils down to the fact that, like,

548
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: it probably just started with one guy and then it snowballed. Yeah,

549
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 3: So I think at if the movie took place over

550
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: a longer period of time, we'd eventually get to the

551
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: point where it's like, you guys, just get your own place,

552
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: you know, seriously, But we're at a moment in this

553
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: guy's life where it has just sort of gotten a

554
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: little out of control, and it was maybe a more

555
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: manageable number of people before.

556
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: I was wondering about that, and I was also like,

557
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I think probably ultimately the apartment thing is

558
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: just a you know, a movie thing to keep you

559
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: in the story. But logistically, yeah, logistically it's troubling, and

560
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, are we.

561
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 6: To believe, which I do believe that all of these

562
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 6: upper executives are like not firing enough sign aps to

563
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 6: understand that they should all share a spot if this

564
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 6: is the case, And.

565
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: Also that CC probably wouldn't point that out to them

566
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: because he wants to be promoted, and that's like his

567
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: whole journey is that it takes him so deep in

568
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: the movie to give up this idea of professional advancement

569
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: regardless of like who gets hurt or deceived along the way.

570
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 2: They should just all rent an apartment, Like it seems

571
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: like they can afford it.

572
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: That's what I kept thinking.

573
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I guess I was like location is everything

574
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: or something?

575
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: Right, the apartment is one of the characters.

576
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: Well, I do think that they are also probably I

577
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: don't know if it was explicit or not, but like

578
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 3: some of these men do sort of pretend like like

579
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: it's their apartment. Yes, that too, Like there is an

580
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: amount of deception there are, Like I think some of

581
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 3: the women who end up there are people for whom,

582
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: like going to a hotel would maybe raise alarm bells

583
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: that these guys don't want to raise.

584
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: True, right, I was wondering.

585
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: I was like credit card statements? Was that a thing

586
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixteen? Credit cards?

587
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: Their wives would not get to see what they were

588
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: spending their money on, like that part of it where

589
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: I was like, no, that would they would very easily

590
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 3: be able to do that.

591
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: But in any case, so we've got the sex apartment

592
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: that CC Baxter is like borrowing out, not even renting

593
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: out his neighbors, including a doctor. Dreyfus are always like, hey, Baxter,

594
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: what's going on in there? It sounds like you're constantly

595
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: fucking you sneaky little slut.

596
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: And he's also like that's me. He's like, yep, mister

597
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: fuck I thought that was a really funny runner. I

598
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: mean it is. It ties into like the greater thieves

599
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: of masculinity that surround this movie, but the fact that

600
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: he at every opportunity even when it gets you know,

601
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: in sometime he's being valiant about it, but other times

602
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: it's like he doesn't mind being thought of as mister

603
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 2: fuck right.

604
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay. So then Baxter arrives home after one

605
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: such night where he has let a guy use his apartment.

606
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: In this case, it's Al Kirkby, someone from upper management

607
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: at his company, and Kirkaby is like, yeah, I'll put

608
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: in a good word for you for this possible promotion.

609
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: Later that night, another guy who Baxter works with this

610
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: is mister Dobish, calls and he's like, hey, I met

611
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: this woman who looks like Marilyn Monroe and I need

612
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: to fuck her immediately, get out of bed, even though

613
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: it's eleven o'clock, and let me use your apartment.

614
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: Right, which is like a winky nod to the fact

615
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: that Billy Wildser just worked with Marilyn Monroe the previous

616
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: year and some like get hot and also seven year itch.

617
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: I don't know when the seven year itch came out.

618
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: I think it was before this could be anything.

619
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: I think it was the fifties. Anyways, like it would

620
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: seem more misogynousts than it is if you didn't know

621
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: that they had this working relationship.

622
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: True in any case, Baxter gets out of bed, he

623
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: goes and waits outside, but mister Dobish leaves the wrong

624
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: key after he leaves, so Baxter can't get back into

625
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: his apartment, and he catches a cold. So the next

626
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: day at work, he's like all sniffily and he chats

627
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: to the elevator operator fran Kubilick played by Shirley maclain,

628
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: and they're talking about colds, and it's like kind of flirty,

629
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: or at least he's trying to be flirty with her.

630
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: It's flirty, it's friendy. I feel like he is like

631
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: many men before him, and people of all genders, but

632
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: I will single out men in this regard, interpreting friendly behavior.

633
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: As romantic interest.

634
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: She's obsessed with me.

635
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that does tend to happen, doesn't it. And

636
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: then Al Kirkaby, the guy from the night before, is like, oh, Baxter,

637
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: I saw you talking to miss Kouba. Look, I'd like

638
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: to take her out, but she always refuses my advances

639
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: for some reason. And it's like, yeah, maybe because you

640
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: regularly assault her.

641
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: We just saw you assault her. Yeah.

642
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: So then Baxter cancels the sex appointment that night for

643
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: this other guy because he wents to stay home and

644
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 1: rest because of his cold. So he has to make

645
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: all these adjustments with the sex apartment schedule to shift

646
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: people around, and then he gets called to the office

647
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: of mister Sheldrake played by Fred McMurray, who we talked

648
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: about in the Double Indemnity episode. Oh yes, yes, in

649
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: any case. So he's the head of personnel at the

650
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: insurance company, and Baxter's like, Hm, is this about my

651
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: promotion that's been floated? And then mister Sheldrake is like,

652
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: I know all about your little arrangement with your sex apartment,

653
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: and I want in on it too.

654
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 2: He's a dog. I think that one of the great

655
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: bait and switches this movie does is like, really, expose

656
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: mister Sheldrike for how slick he thinks he is versus

657
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: how slick he actually is, where he's like, I'm not

658
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: like the other men that have no respect for my wife.

659
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 2: I'm built different and like he isn't And the movie

660
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 2: knows that. And I think the way that that rolls

661
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: out is really smart.

662
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, they really misdirect what his feelings are going to

663
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: be about the apartment, Like you feel like he's in

664
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 3: trouble at first for what he's doing, which sets him

665
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 3: up as a person with like integrity even though he's

666
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: immediately about to be like I also want it right,

667
00:35:58,719 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah right.

668
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 2: I mean it's clear that he thinks he's better than

669
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 2: the other men, who are also like deceiving both. I

670
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: feel like this movie does a good job of the

671
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: twohander like deceiving their their wives and also deceiving the

672
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: women that they are with by just lying out their

673
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: asses all the time. True, but shell Drake kind of

674
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 2: the worst of all because he thinks he's smart. At

675
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 2: least the other guys don't seem to be suffering that delution.

676
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to tell. We don't get to know them.

677
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: Very well, but their comic relief.

678
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. So then Baxter catches on and he gives

679
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: shell Drake the key for that night in exchange for

680
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: two tickets to see The Music Man. So Baxter is like, hey,

681
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: miss Kuberlic, do you want to go with me to

682
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: the play? And she agrees to meet him there, but

683
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: first she's like, I have to go meet an old

684
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: boyfriend for a drink. And it turns out to be

685
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: mister shell Drake, who she had had an affair with

686
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: over this summer. But again, he's married, and it seems

687
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: pretty clear that that relationship was never going to go

688
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 1: anywhere between Fran and shell Drake, but he's also trying

689
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: to rekindle things and he's like, no, I am gonna

690
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: divorce my wife actually, And Fran still loves him and

691
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: she wants to spend time with him, so she bails

692
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: on the date with Baxter to see the Music Man,

693
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: and she goes off with shell Drake two Baxter's apartment,

694
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: not knowing it's Baxter's apartment. We cut to Baxter being

695
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: stood up at the theater and he's all sad and

696
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: he doesn't know either that you know, Fran is at

697
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: his apartment with another man.

698
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: You know it's the worst. I had this sort of

699
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: instinct like when have you ever been watching TV? And

700
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 2: then you do the very like annoying modern thing where

701
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: you like swipe at something that cannot be swiped at,

702
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: be like next thing. I was like, she should have

703
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: texted him, And I was like, now, hold on, my

704
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: father is an infant, Like there is no way for

705
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: her to reach out. Never mind.

706
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: It's true. So then at work, Baxter has gotten his

707
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 1: promotion that he's been promised, and he moves into his

708
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: own office, but he also starts kind of withholding access

709
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: to the sex apartment for those like four men who

710
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: helped him get the promotion, and he's withholding this access

711
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: to everyone except for mister Sheldrake. There's this scene where

712
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: Baxter's like, hey, Sheldrake, I think your lady friend left

713
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: this broken compact mirror at my apartment.

714
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: And Chekhov's broken compact mirror. That is exactly and also

715
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: it doubles as a little metaphor for the state of

716
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: the human condition. Hello what I'm cheering, and that.

717
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 3: She probably considers herself permanently damaged by this relationship in

718
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 3: a way that cannot be repaired.

719
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

720
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: Wow, I was like, Wow, that's the moment Billy Wilder

721
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: won his oscar for this one broken mirror to represent

722
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: damaged character. Boom, what what critics are calling it subtle?

723
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 2: It's wild it's wilder, It's really wilder.

724
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: Yes, So Baxter doesn't know that shel Drake's lady love

725
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: is Fran still until the holiday party a few weeks later,

726
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: where Fran lends Baxter the same broken mirror so that

727
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: he can look at his ugly bowler hat. Got sorry

728
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: about it.

729
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: That bowler hat really cracked me up. He's like, I'm

730
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 3: a big shot. Now check out my new hat. And

731
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 3: it's like, you look like Charlie Chaplin.

732
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, yeah, I wrote down red flag there when

733
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: a guy gets really drunk, He's like, check out this

734
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: cool hat I bought.

735
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: Should we go out run away?

736
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, is like a sign of hubris to be

737
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 3: like I'm trying a new kind of hat. It's a

738
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: sign that the character is like on a decline morally.

739
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gotta like let someone else fix him and

740
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, circle back in a couple of years see

741
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 2: how he's doing.

742
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. But Baxter sees the broken mirror that

743
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: Fran has and he puts two and two together. Meanwhile,

744
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: Fran is very sad because mister Sheldrake's secretary just told

745
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: Fran about the several other women who he has had

746
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: affairs with over the years and who he has lied

747
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: to about how he's going to divorce his wife for them,

748
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: so Fran is really upset. Baxter is really upset because

749
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: his crush is sleeping with his boss, so he leaves

750
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: the party and he goes to a bar and gets

751
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: super drunk. Meanwhile, at Baxter's apartment, Fran is there with

752
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: shel Drake and she's crying because of his shitty behavior.

753
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: He has to leave to catch a train to be

754
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: with his wife, and Fran stays behind. We kind of

755
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: cut back to Baxter, who's coming back to his apartment

756
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: with a woman he met at the bar. He discovers

757
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: Fran in bed. She has taken a lot of sleeping

758
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: pills and she's not waking up, so Baxter panics. He

759
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: goes and calls the doctor neighbor over to his apartment.

760
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: The doctor saves Fran's life, and Baxter calls shell Drake

761
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: and tells him about the incident, but shell Drake doesn't

762
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: really want to be bothered with it, especially it's Christmas Day,

763
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: spending the day with his family, And finally Fran wakes

764
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: up and Baxter tends to her. He gets her fed,

765
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: they play cards together, but she still feels awful, both

766
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: physically and emotionally, and she's still in love with and

767
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: heartbroken over shell Drake. Meanwhile, Fran's family is worried because

768
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: they haven't seen or heard from her in a couple days.

769
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: Which I'm like, that's one of the things with me.

770
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 2: For Baxter, I'm just like, you gotta like I understand.

771
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 2: He's like, well, you know, don't call people while you

772
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 2: are like before you kind of get your head back

773
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: on straight sort of. But then at some point it's

774
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 2: starting to like before her brother in law arrives and

775
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: he sucks as well, but like before her brother in

776
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: law rise, it's starting to feel somewhat hostile. Yes, where

777
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 2: it feels like like a baby it's cold outside style hostage. Yeah,

778
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: where he's like, well, you know, you're not quite ready.

779
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: I mean he's covering Sheldrake's ass, like exactly.

780
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

781
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 3: He knows that the discretion of the situation will affect

782
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 3: his relationship with Sheldrake, so it's not purely like him

783
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 3: taking care of her. It's him being like, I have

784
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 3: to keep her quiet about this.

785
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I kind of On this watch it was like, Wow,

786
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: Baxter is like a cad deeper into this movie than

787
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: I remembered.

788
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: That's why I don't like him very much anyway, So

789
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 1: her family's worried about her. Her brother in law, Carl,

790
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: finds out where Fran is and he shows up at

791
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: Baxter's apartment assumes that Baxter is a sleazy guy who's

792
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: taking advantage of Fran, which isn't exactly right, but you know,

793
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: Baxter is no saint in this situation and any case,

794
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: Carl punches Baxter and takes Fran home, and Baxter is

795
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: all like, damn, I'm in love with Fran. So the

796
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: next day he goes to work prepared to confront shell

797
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: Drake and tell him that he should forget about Fran

798
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: because Baxter wants to be with her. But shell Drake

799
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: is like, actually, my wife left me because she found

800
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: out about all my affairs, So I'm going to be

801
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: with Fran. By the way, here's another big promotion for

802
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: all your trouble.

803
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 2: This scene is so fucked in, so many different directions

804
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 2: that it's wild but like it's wilder, wilder. I'm sorry, sorry,

805
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: it's wilder, but yeah, I mean particularly, I was like

806
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: sort of surprised by the sort of like nakedness that

807
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 2: mister Sheldrake presents, like, well, obviously, if I'm alone, I

808
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: will die, so because I've been rejected by someone rightfully,

809
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: I must enter this new relationship under false pretenses, and

810
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 2: like he just presents it like of course, of course said.

811
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: It's gonna happen.

812
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

813
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 3: What I really appreciated about this scene too, is that,

814
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 3: like you get into it with watching CC practicing the

815
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 3: speech she's gonna give to Sheldrake of like, I'll take

816
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 3: her off your hands for you. And whenever you see

817
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 3: someone practicing a speech they're about to give, you know

818
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: that they're not going to successfully give the speech, right,

819
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 3: good trope, and so you kind of watch that being like, Okay,

820
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: I get it, we're not going to hear this, like,

821
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 3: but then you do hear the speech, it's just that

822
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 3: shell Drake says the exact same words. He's like, I'll

823
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 3: take her off your hands, And I thought that that

824
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 3: was like an impressive way of like subverting that trope

825
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 3: to make it feel new, and I was just like, wow,

826
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 3: that's really skillful, because I was kind of rolling my eyes.

827
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and no, I'm not anymore.

828
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: Totally, I mean, and I feel like it gets at

829
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 2: something that I think this movie's doing really well, which

830
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 2: is like drawing your attention to the fact that they

831
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: both view her as meat. But yeah, they view themselves

832
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 2: somewhat differently. They both think that they're ultimately good people,

833
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 2: and neither of them are consulting with the woman that

834
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: they are laying claim to, like she is property in

835
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: both of their eyes, and both of them think, well,

836
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: the way that I view her as property is good.

837
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, which is obviously a major reflection of the

838
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 1: mentality of the time and how women were viewed by

839
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: most men. Totally, but it's frustrating to watch. Nonetheless. Anyway,

840
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: Baxter takes the promotion that shell Drake offers, but sometime later,

841
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: Baxter bumps into Fran at work. She's gotten back together

842
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: with shell Drake, who is making arrangements to divorce his

843
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: wife and to marry Fran allegedly, and Baxter's like, oh, yeah,

844
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: I was just using shell Drake this whole time to

845
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: get a promotion, I don't even care about you being

846
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: with shell Drake, and also I have a big date tonight.

847
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: We find out he's lying about all of this. Then

848
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: there's a conversation between Baxter and shell Drake where shell

849
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: Drake wants to borrow the key to Baxter's apartment again

850
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: so he can take Fran there. But Baxter has finally

851
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: had enough so he quits. He goes home and packs

852
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: up the apartment. He doesn't know what he's gonna do,

853
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: but he just knows he has to get out of

854
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: this place. Meanwhile, Fran is at a New Year's Eve

855
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: celebration with shell Drake, and he's all like, we're gonna

856
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: go to Atlantic City to go to a hotel tonight

857
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: because Baxter won't even give me the key to his

858
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 1: apartment anymore, especially if I'm taking you there the apartment

859
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: his the apartment. And she's like, wait a minute, does

860
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: that mean that Baxter loves me? So she runs through

861
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: the streets as everyone is ringing in the New Year,

862
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay. When Harry met Sally certain saw

863
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: this movie and has some homage to pay. And Fran

864
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: goes to Baxter's apartment and he's like, Wow, I'm so

865
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 1: glad you're here. I love you, and she's like uh huh.

866
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: And then they finished their card game from earlier, and

867
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: then I guess they're gonna be together the end.

868
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 2: Woooooooo see.

869
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 3: I actually interpreted her hearing that Baxter had quit his

870
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 3: job less as like, oh, my god, he loves me.

871
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: I feel like she knows he loves her throughout. I

872
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: took this to me and her being like, oh, he

873
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 3: decided to stop being complicit in this horrible scheme.

874
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

875
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 3: Maybe it's giving the movie too much credit, but to me,

876
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 3: I sort of felt like the movie was not like

877
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,959
Speaker 3: sympathetic to Baxter's complicity in it. It's like, only once

878
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 3: he decides to stop being complicit in it does he

879
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 3: get what he wants.

880
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: True. I think that interpretation works well. I was interpreted

881
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: interpretating wow, okay, awesome job, Caitlin with your brain interpret well, Now,

882
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:12,280
Speaker 1: I don't know what the word is interpreting likes okay.

883
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: So I thought that because because you see her face

884
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: like lighten up as he's like, yeah, he won't even

885
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: give me the key anymore, especially if I'm taking you there.

886
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: So maybe it's like a combination of both because she's like,

887
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: oh wait, he doesn't want me to be with another man.

888
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: He wants to be with me. But I might just

889
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: be having too simple of an interpretation.

890
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 2: Yeay, Kaitlyn. I feel like both reads, if it makes sense.

891
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: And I also think that it feels kind of intended

892
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 2: that it's left a little bit open ended, because if

893
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 2: it it wasn't intended to be open ended, I feel

894
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 2: like you would have gotten, you know, like a kiss

895
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: or something. All we really know is that she is

896
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: like willing to I think the most generous read I

897
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 2: was able to get to on the ending, which I

898
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: didn't love, but the ending shot is such a banger,

899
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 2: Like it's hard to not love the ending shot, but yeah,

900
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: the most generous read I was able to get to

901
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: is that at very least Shirley McLean's character is really

902
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: happy that he did not sell her out. Further, I

903
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 2: think like, I think that it could be seen as like, Wow,

904
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 2: this is the first time in at least the course

905
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: of this movie and possibly her adult life, that she

906
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: has not been put out as property and as an

907
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: opportunity versus a person. And I feel like that connects

908
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 2: back to like the be men, sh be a human

909
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 2: being theme that the movie seems to want to do.

910
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 2: But I also think you're supposed to think they get

911
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: together at the end of As with many movies, I

912
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 2: sort of hope that the ending to this movie is

913
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 2: that they hook up for a month and then break

914
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 2: up and remain friends. That's my wish for most couples

915
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,959
Speaker 2: in most movies, is that they fucked for a month

916
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 2: and stay friends for their whole lives.

917
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean to me, I'm like, the happy ending

918
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 3: of this movie is not that they get together. It's

919
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 3: that she is allowed to consider that there is something

920
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 3: else that's possible outside of the system that she has

921
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,720
Speaker 3: been sort of ground down to accept.

922
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: True. Yeah, I agree. Let's discuss further after this break.

923
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 5: Woo and we're back where back Emily, where would you

924
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 5: like to start the discussion?

925
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: What's jumping out to you?

926
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: Oh?

927
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 3: My gosh, I don't even know where to start. I mean,

928
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 3: the first thing that I want to say about this

929
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 3: movie is that I just I really appreciated how everything

930
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 3: was paying something off, Like there was nothing new introduced

931
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 3: that was like important that we didn't already know about,

932
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 3: Like even the sleeping pills, where it's like they're introduced

933
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 3: when he's like, I can't give you the Apartment tonight.

934
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: I'm sick. I already took a sleeping pill, like, and

935
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 3: it doesn't feel clunky. It feels like, oh, it's serving

936
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 3: a purpose there. You don't expect it to come back.

937
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 3: But then when it does come back, when she takes

938
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 3: the full bottle, You're like, oh, that was just so efficient,

939
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 3: so well done, very good writing. Yeah, and the mirror

940
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 3: coming back.

941
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 2: This wilder, he's got a big future ahead. Yeah.

942
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 3: And I also love the like that's how it crumbles

943
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 3: cookie wise, Oh my.

944
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: Gosh, I was thinking, was anyone anyone in the chat

945
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: a big fan of Bruce Almighty?

946
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: Wouldn't call myself a big fan.

947
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 2: I've seen it, Okay, for all my brust almighty heads.

948
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: That's how the cookie crumbles is very much the Jim

949
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 2: Carrey character's slogan throughout the movie. And I believe that

950
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 2: it is a clear reference to The Apartment.

951
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: Oh it could be the end.

952
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: Brussel Mighty heads shout out wow. But I was feeling

953
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: the Brusse Almighty the movie. Had seen Apartment the movie.

954
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of movies have seen the movie

955
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: The Apartment when Harry met Sally.

956
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 2: Movies are people, and that's how we engage with them.

957
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: One thing that I appreciate about this movie is that

958
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: I think it's a good example of how men fail

959
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: upwards and get promotions that they don't deserve, and how

960
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: women are often overlooked for promotions and opportunities in general,

961
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: because men are obsessed with looking out for each other

962
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: when they engage in bad behavior. And I think that's

963
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: one of the many reasons that the patriarchy has perpetuated

964
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: itself for centuries. I don't think the movie is commenting

965
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: on that, but it is presenting it.

966
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: I think it is like presenting it pretty effectively. I

967
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 2: don't know how I would suggest it be shifted, but

968
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, you're given many elements of this

969
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: like workplace patriarchy, and as a viewer, like you're sort

970
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 2: of expected to put it together yourself. The movie doesn't

971
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 2: really do that, and then at moments I think it

972
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 2: kind of fails its characters. But it's weird because I

973
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: feel like there is like all these shades of gray

974
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 2: where it's based on what we see of CC Baxter,

975
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 2: Like it's not that he is bad at his job,

976
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 2: it's that he recognizes that the only way to get

977
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 2: ahead is to cater to everyone around him's basest, worst,

978
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 2: most manipulative instincts to the people around them, and he's

979
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,879
Speaker 2: fine with that. So it's like a lot of male

980
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,280
Speaker 2: characters we've talked about over the years, he is both

981
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: subject to the patriarchy because he's so in the middle,

982
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 2: and he's also being uplifted by it at the same

983
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 2: time and is okay with that.

984
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 3: Right, And you see the alternative. He has that coworker

985
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 3: who works at the next desk over, who's been there

986
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 3: longer than him, who has done probably more better work

987
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 3: than him, because he's so distracted taking care of the

988
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 3: apartment anyway, we.

989
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 2: Don't see him work ever.

990
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that guy is never going to get a promotion,

991
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 3: and he begrudgingly congratulates Ceci when he gets the promotion

992
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 3: that he earned through dubious means. And you recognize that, like,

993
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 3: the alternative to participating in the sort of corrupt hierarchy

994
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 3: of this institution is just languishing in the position that

995
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,479
Speaker 3: you're in. And so it both like lets Baxter off

996
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 3: the hook for his choices in some way, but it

997
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 3: also indicts the institution.

998
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and then I feel like, on Frand's side,

999
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: I'm curious what everyone thinks about it, because I didn't

1000
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 2: remember that they tell you that she did have higher

1001
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 2: career aspirations but was held back, which it seems like

1002
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 2: she I mean, I would guess that she and Baxter

1003
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: are like they're intellectually matched, but Baxter has the credentials

1004
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 2: the fact that he is a white man and the

1005
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 2: fact that he because he's a white man, he has

1006
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: the opportunities to advance. And they were like, well, sorry,

1007
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 2: you like can't spell well enough, so you're stuck in

1008
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 2: this very feminized working class position of this time indefinitely,

1009
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 2: which seems to be I mean, among other things. But

1010
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 2: it does seem that like part of her depression comes

1011
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: from the fact that the world that she's in does

1012
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: not offer her opportunities for advancement, like nefarious or otherwise.

1013
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I also wonder what the implication was supposed

1014
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 3: to be of the fact that, like, Baxter's neighbors are Jews,

1015
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 3: and there was like a class implication there that like,

1016
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 3: even though that guy is a doctor, they live in

1017
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 3: this like kind of shitty apartment building with this bachelor

1018
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 3: and there is like for him and for why can't

1019
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 3: I remember her name, Shirley McLean's character, Why can't I

1020
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 3: go for Fran Yeah, that they both don't have the

1021
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 3: same privileges that other people around them do, and so

1022
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 3: they are kind of like scraping to get by. Yeah.

1023
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 2: I was curious about that too. I mean, I know

1024
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 2: that Billy Wilder was a Jewish writer and included other

1025
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: Jewish characters in his films. I don't know. I mean

1026
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: that sort of brings me into like some of the

1027
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: context for the way that this movie was produced. There's

1028
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 2: not a ton of it that I think is super

1029
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 2: relevant to talk about. But the things that I guess

1030
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 2: I would want to talk about is the fact that

1031
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 2: like Billy Wilder had like started in noir and you know,

1032
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: like did Double Indemnity in the fifties. He does all

1033
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 2: of these wacky comedies, and then in the sixties. It

1034
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 2: seems like this is the first example of him getting

1035
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 2: two ideas he wanted to produce in the forties but

1036
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: wasn't allowed to because of the Hayes Code until the sixties.

1037
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 2: So this was like an idea he'd been noodling around

1038
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,439
Speaker 2: with since the forties, but this was the first time

1039
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: he actually got clearance to do it, and I don't know,

1040
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to find a lot about the writing

1041
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 2: of the movie itself. It was co written with a

1042
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: common collaborator, Il Diamond. This movie takes place in nineteen

1043
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 2: fifty nine, but it also feels like a little bit

1044
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: out of time.

1045
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it feels really modern in a lot

1046
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 3: of ways, and it's sort of like cynicism about sex

1047
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 3: and everything, which I think is a little bit of

1048
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 3: like a Billy Wilder homemark, Like his movies are a

1049
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 3: lot about like cynical people finding joy in spite of

1050
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 3: themselves and in spite of like them feeling sort of

1051
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 3: above the morays of the time. But I also kept

1052
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 3: thinking about, like what it would be like to watch

1053
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 3: this movie if I hadn't already seen mad Men. Ooh, right,

1054
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 3: because I feel like mad Men was so like, oh

1055
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 3: my god, this was so normalized and we're blowing your

1056
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 3: mind with that, and it feels like this must have

1057
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 3: felt a bit more radical to see before that was

1058
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 3: like the common understanding of what these types of businessmen

1059
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 3: were up.

1060
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: To, especially because the production code was still in effect

1061
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: when this movie was being developed and released, the kind

1062
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: of parameters of it were getting more lax as time

1063
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: went on, and I think it was in nineteen sixty

1064
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: that the Hayes production code was like officially dissolved and

1065
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: replaced with the rating system, but it was still enforced

1066
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: to some degree when this movie came out. And so

1067
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 1: I was surprised that there were things that this movie

1068
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: got away with that I wouldn't have expected. Did it

1069
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: to be able to talk about and like pretty directly

1070
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: and explicitly addressed, such as suicide and suicidal ideation and infidelity, slash,

1071
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: sex out of wedlock and abortion? Oh wait, what's the

1072
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: abortion component?

1073
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,919
Speaker 3: So I mean, it's not as explicit as talking about

1074
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 3: the suicide, but there's a moment when her brother in

1075
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,479
Speaker 3: law comes to the apartment to retrieve her and he

1076
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 3: introduces Dreyfus. He's like, this is her doctor, and the

1077
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 3: guy like almost punches him and he's like, not that

1078
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 3: kind of doctor.

1079
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Okay, I did not connect that.

1080
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, the implication being that like she's recovering from an

1081
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 3: abortion versus and obviously they don't say it, but it

1082
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 3: is strongly implied that like, oh yeah, that would be

1083
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: the other thing that the doctor would be there treating

1084
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 3: her for at home.

1085
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that totally makes sense. God, that did not register

1086
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: for me at all.

1087
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I barely caught it.

1088
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 2: This Vivie is really good, folks. But getting back to

1089
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 2: your original point, Emily, Yeah, I thought it was interesting

1090
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 2: that the only character that I think, like we know

1091
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 2: is Jewish is also the moral center of the movie.

1092
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 2: And also yeah, like of a higher class and profession

1093
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 2: than our protagonist. Yeah, but I really liked I don't know,

1094
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 2: I like doctor Dryfus.

1095
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 3: And his wife.

1096
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: His wife, I hate that, like we have his her

1097
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 2: name is Mildred, we do hear her name, so for

1098
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 2: Bechdel test purposes, she just skates through, although she is

1099
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: mostly referred to as his wife. But I also was

1100
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: like pleasantly surprised that Jack Krushian, who played doctor Dryfus,

1101
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,439
Speaker 2: was nominated for an Oscar for that part. Jack Lemon,

1102
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 2: Charley McLain, and Jack krushn are all nominated for Oscars.

1103
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: This movie was nominated for a million Oscars and won

1104
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: a bunch, not for acting. But in any case, I

1105
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: felt like doctor Dryfus, I don't know, he was interesting

1106
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 2: to be because in some ways he and certainly Mildred

1107
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 2: are allies to Fran based on what they know about

1108
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: the situation, but they also have very like nineteen sixties

1109
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 2: views of sex and promiscuity in general, which I feel

1110
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: like this movie is sort of playing around with and

1111
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 2: referencing how older generations versus younger generations view sex and

1112
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 2: promiscuity at this time.

1113
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean they're not as disgusted with him

1114
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 3: as they could be, I suppose because they were like,

1115
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 3: not in a position to be, but you are like, oh,

1116
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 3: they have sympathy for her, even if they don't have

1117
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 3: sympathy for Baxter, right, which I.

1118
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: Was surprised about because so much of slut shaming and

1119
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: like promiscuity shaming is directed toward women. And there's of

1120
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: course the famous double standard of oh, if you're a

1121
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: man who's fucking all the time, you're awesome, and if

1122
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: you're a woman who's doing that, you're a horrible, dirty,

1123
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: disgusting person.

1124
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 2: Or it's just like fundamentally assumed that you're being deceived

1125
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: versus participating, right.

1126
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 1: Right, that too, and so for like doctor Dreyfuss's his

1127
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: wife Mildred, She's like, yes, I'll fix some breakfast for her.

1128
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do anything for you, CEC Baxter, because you're

1129
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: a dirty, rotten scoundrel.

1130
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 2: He's a dog.

1131
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:36,479
Speaker 1: But for her because I think she almost views Fran

1132
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: as a victim, almost of like CC Baxter's constant parade.

1133
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: What they perceive is like a constant parade of like

1134
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: women coming and going out of his apartment.

1135
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she's assuming that Fran has overdosed as a

1136
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: result of CC. She is going off of right.

1137
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 3: She knows right, Yes, who knows where her sympathies would

1138
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 3: be if there wasn't a suicide attun true exactly.

1139
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was something that was on my mind because

1140
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: this is the first time and I let like doctor

1141
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 2: Dreyfus does not hesitate to intervene. It's not like he's

1142
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 2: unwilling to help someone who he has moral questions about,

1143
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 2: which is what doctor should do, not necessarily what they

1144
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 2: always do. But I wondered how Mildred's opinion of Frian

1145
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 2: would change if she was not in this position. Right,

1146
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 2: But I also think it's fair to assume that Ceci's

1147
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 2: a liar because he is, So that's something to keep

1148
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 2: in mind.

1149
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: Can we explore the romance between Baxter and Fran a bit.

1150
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we should.

1151
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: Because I find it fascinating. So she's introduced in the elevator.

1152
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 1: You know, he's trying to be flirty with her. He

1153
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: asks her for lunch. She like smiles but doesn't express

1154
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: any interest and like kind of shoes him out of

1155
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: the elevator.

1156
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1157
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 2: I would say it's friendly, but it's not. Yes, mortatious

1158
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 2: as he interprets it right.

1159
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: As fire as my interpretation, Wow, I did it without

1160
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: even trying. I said the word. She is being cordial

1161
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: and professional, and maybe that's why she's like not being

1162
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: flirtatious in return, because she's like, we're colleagues, you know

1163
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: that would be inappropriate. But in any case, she's showing

1164
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: no romantic interest. Not long after that, he asks her

1165
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 1: to go to the theater. She declines, saying that she

1166
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: has another date with another man, but Baxter kind of

1167
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: like wears her down a little bit, and she's like, Okay, fine,

1168
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: I'll go with you. It's right here. When we get

1169
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: the I Know where you live conversation.

1170
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the part of the movie that for

1171
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 2: Vah is the worst, real bad, it's bad.

1172
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: One of their earlier conversations in the movie is Baxter

1173
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, you know, we're gonna go to this play,

1174
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: then we'll go out dancing. I know this great spot

1175
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: right around the corner from where you live. And she's like,

1176
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: oh sounds great. Wait a minute, how do you know

1177
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: where I live? And then rather than him being like, oh, yeah,

1178
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 1: she's right, is creepy that I know where she lives

1179
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: and that I just told her that and acted like

1180
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: it was no big deal that I told her that.

1181
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,479
Speaker 1: Instead he's like, not only do I know where you live,

1182
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: I know who you live with. I know where and

1183
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: when you were born. I know your height, your weight,

1184
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: your Social Security number, and your entire medical history because

1185
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: I looked up your file at the office. And she's like,

1186
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: uh huh.

1187
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 2: She's like, hah okay, this, yes, I remember this for

1188
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 2: the first time I watched it, being like, well, that's

1189
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 2: certainly disqualifying, yes, you would think, and yet well that's it.

1190
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 2: I feel like, well, I think that there is so

1191
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 2: much to love about this character and will continue talking

1192
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 2: about her. I feel like there are moments of inconsistency

1193
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 2: where there is like naivete I think like ascribed to

1194
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 2: her character that feels wildly unreasonable, where it's like, yes,

1195
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 2: she is young, she's in her early twenties, but like

1196
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 2: people in their early twenties know, it's scary to do that.

1197
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: Like that's maybe not the guy, particularly if you are

1198
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 2: already famously not attracted to them. Like it sort of

1199
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 2: lends itself to the wearing one down thing.

1200
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he's benefiting here from comparison to the

1201
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 3: men who are physically assaulting her in the workplace. Right, Yes,

1202
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 3: he's the least bad guy. Yes, And like I think

1203
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 3: also like in that first scene where she gets spanked

1204
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 3: by that guy and she's sort of like tells him

1205
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 3: off a little bit, you are kind of like, oh, well,

1206
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 3: she's someone who will like stand up for herself if

1207
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 3: you're doing something wrong to her kind of. And then

1208
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 3: so when she doesn't do it to him, you're like, well,

1209
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 3: she's not just placating him. Maybe she's okay with it.

1210
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he must be the guy.

1211
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, But at the same time, I'm like, as creepy

1212
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 3: as that is and as not okay as it is

1213
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 3: that he does that, I do think that the film

1214
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,600
Speaker 3: is sort of like not necessarily like judging him or

1215
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 3: holding him accountable for it, but it is sort of

1216
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 3: presenting the fact that he is an observer of the

1217
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 3: lives of others and not a participant even in his

1218
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 3: own life, Like he doesn't even occupy his own apartment, right,

1219
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 3: and that is like the main problem that he needs

1220
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 3: to sort of rectify throughout the movie. So it is like, yeah,

1221
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 3: this is like kind of a messed up way to

1222
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 3: like see what life.

1223
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 2: Is all about.

1224
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, by like reading people's insurance files. But yeah, that's

1225
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 3: giving him a lot of credit.

1226
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, but yeah, that was a tricky

1227
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,839
Speaker 2: one for me. I do like feel like that moment

1228
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 2: has potential to be I was like sort of hoping

1229
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 2: it would be called back on in a more meaningful

1230
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 2: way later, because it's like, if this guy is our

1231
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 2: the guy we're rooting for, and that's the way that

1232
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 2: he understands how to interface with people where people are

1233
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 2: kind of numbers and obstacles to be overcome to get

1234
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 2: to where he wants to be. I just wish that

1235
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 2: that specific PLoP boy was called back to because it's

1236
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 2: just like age is bad.

1237
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 3: I mean they did call back to it, they do,

1238
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:35,720
Speaker 3: but not in a super meaningful way.

1239
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 2: Not No, way that felt critical of him.

1240
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 3: Really, yes, they call back to it when she's like,

1241
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 3: you know, she calls back like, oh, you don't want

1242
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 3: people to get the wrong idea about how I know

1243
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 3: about that?

1244
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 2: Like right, It just felt like a flirtatious callback versus like, Hey,

1245
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 2: that thing you did earlier was fucking weird. Like yeah,

1246
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 2: which is weird because she does selectively call him out

1247
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 2: on certain things, but it's everything that you know, we

1248
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 2: have to keep him our lead, So yeah, right.

1249
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: I think it boils down to I just wish that

1250
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: she had been afforded more agency and perspective throughout the movie,

1251
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: because I mean, I also want to talk about how

1252
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: she's presented in comparison to the other women who are

1253
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 1: in the movie, mainly the women who the men are

1254
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 1: having the affairs with, because she's like the one respectable

1255
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: woman quote unquote. It's like the nineteen sixty version of like,

1256
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 1: she is not like the other girls. But I still

1257
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 1: find the way their romance plays out to be, you know,

1258
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:50,520
Speaker 1: not great, because it's a lot of her politely declining

1259
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: or not showing any interest him kind of barreling past

1260
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 1: that and wearing her down. And then there's the scene

1261
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 1: where he has put the two and two together about oh,

1262
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:06,640
Speaker 1: the person who my boss is taking to my apartment

1263
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: is fran He finds this out at the holiday party,

1264
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 1: and he gets so upset about it. And I feel

1265
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 1: like it's maybe some combination of like, oh, well, I'm

1266
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: jealous that the woman who I want to belong to

1267
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: me can't belong to me because another man has claimed

1268
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: ownership of her, and this is maybe me reaching a

1269
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: little bit, but I'm also just like pulling from the

1270
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: context of this era of like, oh, she's like a

1271
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 1: tainted one. She's damaged goods. You know, she's not this like.

1272
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 2: Oh, I see, I didn't read it that. Okay, I

1273
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:48,640
Speaker 2: read it as it's still not a super charitable interpretation

1274
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 2: of Baxter. But I read that as like, oh, now

1275
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 2: I care that people's lives are being affected because I

1276
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 2: like this person, and I like that was how I

1277
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 2: read that seen, where it was like people are just

1278
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 2: numbers and bimbos and this is just how the world

1279
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 2: works until suddenly someone that you like is involved, and

1280
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden it matters, and yeah, well

1281
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 2: that's not a negative thing inherently to realize that if

1282
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 2: someone is being emotionally, like deceived or harmed is an

1283
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 2: important thing. It does sort of reveal him to be

1284
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 2: like someone who is kind of selfish, and that is

1285
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 2: who he is, Like, he's like, well, I only care

1286
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:34,640
Speaker 2: if someone I like is affected, which is part of

1287
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 2: what he has to get over that. I feel like,

1288
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 2: you know, you could argue whether he actually makes that

1289
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 2: journey fully but yeah.

1290
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 3: Right, but yeah, it's left a little ambiguous, like what

1291
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 3: it is about.

1292
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: That that affects him, right, Yeah, yeah, it's hard to say.

1293
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 1: But he gets so upset about it that he goes

1294
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: to a bar and gets drunk and picks up another woman.

1295
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 1: Which I'm not casting any judgment on any of that

1296
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: because it sounds like something I would do.

1297
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 2: No, they're lonely and hanging out. I always remember just

1298
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 2: the image of them, like soul loosely dancing cheeksh to cheek,

1299
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:12,639
Speaker 2: Like it's so funny.

1300
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,679
Speaker 3: It's so funny, And it is that hard cut from

1301
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 3: her making her suicide attempt to them dancing cheek to cheek,

1302
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 3: and you're like, the darkest moment and the funniest moment

1303
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 3: in this movie is just like back to back.

1304
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that stark image of like loneliness and like,

1305
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 2: I feel like it could have been way more. I

1306
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 2: think that in general, women who are not Shirley maclain

1307
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 2: are made out to be kind of well a few

1308
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 2: are made out to be kind of like bimbos that

1309
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 2: are like, what do you mean You're not gonna blah

1310
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 2: blah blah. But I think the exception to that sort

1311
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 2: of trope is Shell Drake's secretary. I feel like we

1312
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 2: do get some interiority for her, and I liked that

1313
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 2: in the scene at the holiday party, we have Shell

1314
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 2: Drake's I forget what her name is, we do get

1315
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,840
Speaker 2: a name for her, Miss Olsen, miss Olsen. I was

1316
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 2: calling her Elizabeth Olsen in my mind because that is

1317
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 2: a famous person I've heard of. But miss Olsen, I

1318
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 2: thought the way that she presented that information to Fran

1319
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 2: while it was like drunk and like not super well,

1320
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 2: presented the way you wouldn't when you're drunk. I thought

1321
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:25,600
Speaker 2: that that was like more than I expected, because I

1322
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 2: feel like it would have been very easy in this setting,

1323
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 2: in this time to have it turned into a rivalry

1324
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:36,520
Speaker 2: and a shameful thing, where I think like miss Olsen's

1325
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 2: anger is well placed. It's at shell Drake. She knows

1326
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 2: he's a piece of shit, and she literally says to

1327
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 2: Fran like, there's nothing to be ashamed of. He is

1328
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 2: we've seen him do this, like you are not. And

1329
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 2: as someone who has been young, naive and in that

1330
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 2: position being told by someone like hey, this guy you're with,

1331
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 2: he's a piece of shit. I've been in your position too,

1332
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 2: it never feels good. And seeing it written by two

1333
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 2: men is never quite on. But those like hey, just

1334
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 2: so you know, I see what you're going through, and

1335
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:13,599
Speaker 2: this guy's a piece of shit.

1336
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 3: You're part of a pattern. You're not special. This is

1337
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 3: like he's going to do this again. Yes, totally, it

1338
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 3: is a true warning. She's not saying it to be

1339
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:26,040
Speaker 3: like fuck you, like yeah, she is saying it to

1340
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 3: be like I am the ghost of Christmas past.

1341
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 2: And totally yeah, Having now been on both sides of

1342
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 2: that equation, that is a very meaningful interaction that we're

1343
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 2: seeing there. And the fact that that is what puts

1344
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 2: her over the edge and sends her into suicidal ideation

1345
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 2: is like, we should talk about that also, something that

1346
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 2: certainly happens. I don't know. I was surprised by that

1347
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 2: moment watching it this time, because I feel like in

1348
01:15:57,400 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 2: a movie in nineteen sixty I would assume that it

1349
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 2: be like a woman shaming another woman of like, how

1350
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 2: could you be so naive? How could you blah blah

1351
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:09,600
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, But instead it was like a callous,

1352
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 2: imperfect moment of recognition.

1353
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tend to agree that her intention is, you know,

1354
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 1: looking out for her fellow woman who is going through

1355
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 1: something that she already went through. But that character is

1356
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 1: also established to be someone who seems like kind of

1357
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: devious in the sense that she's like always sneaking around.

1358
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:38,599
Speaker 1: She's very nosy, she's trying to like stir things up.

1359
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: Because we also see her call mister Sheldrake's his wife

1360
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: and you know, arranged to get together for lunch to

1361
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 1: tell her about all of shell Drake's affairs.

1362
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 2: I don't think the movie judges her for that.

1363
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 3: Though now I felt like that was it was like

1364
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,520
Speaker 3: a twist to reveal that she had had a relationship

1365
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 3: with Shell Drake, because at first you are like, oh, yeah,

1366
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 3: she's one of those nosy people and that's why they

1367
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 3: need to hide it, and then it sort of is

1368
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 3: like a reveal of like, oh, he's talking about her

1369
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 3: like she's nosy, but really she's scorned, and like it

1370
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 3: is a situation that he created, not a situation that

1371
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:14,759
Speaker 3: she created.

1372
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I.

1373
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,680
Speaker 1: Was just because so many of the other women were

1374
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:24,760
Speaker 1: presented as being like ditzy, fluozy or like naggy in

1375
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,160
Speaker 1: some way that I just sort of carried some of

1376
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: that into that character, because I do feel like a

1377
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 1: lot of those other I think.

1378
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 2: The women who are brought into the apartment are right, yeah,

1379
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 2: there is.

1380
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: It seems a lot of judgment cast on them by

1381
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:41,559
Speaker 1: the movie. And maybe I was just carrying some of

1382
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 1: that and projecting it onto the Miss Sulsen character.

1383
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 2: I will wave a flag for miss Olsen. I think Missulsen,

1384
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 2: you know, she she did it imperfectly, but all of

1385
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,680
Speaker 2: her motivations to be made sense, Like it wasn't just

1386
01:17:55,720 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 2: like she was a spiteful, nosy person, like she was

1387
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 2: fucked over by her bot, like she was presumably harassed

1388
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 2: at work, ended up in this relationship, and then for

1389
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 2: her own livelihood, forced to stay and watch him do

1390
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 2: this to other women. And then we see her make

1391
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 2: a drunken attempt to acknowledge one of those other women to.

1392
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:21,839
Speaker 3: Break the cycle.

1393
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, which, unfortunately, what happens like that I don't think

1394
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 2: can be pinned on miss Olsen. Again, this is all

1395
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:33,720
Speaker 2: traced back to Sheldrake and him thinking that he is untouchable,

1396
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 2: which I feel like made it hit even harder and

1397
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:40,680
Speaker 2: more frustrating that at the end, you know, he's always

1398
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 2: going to be fine even though he doesn't end up

1399
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 2: with Fran and Fran escapes his fucking evil spiral. You know,

1400
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 2: like he will continue to be fine indefinitely, which is

1401
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 2: true of the time and true basically still now.

1402
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 3: Well, it's like anyone who decides like I have a

1403
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 3: moral conscience about what's happening and I'm going to tap

1404
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 3: out is lost from the company. Yeah, like they are

1405
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 3: all exiled, and she's one of those people who's like,

1406
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:12,720
Speaker 3: I'm out. I guess because I exposed what's happening.

1407
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: Right, which tracks because men are obsessed with getting rid

1408
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 1: of anyone who will not comply with their horrible behavior.

1409
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 2: I had a little bit about because like we've sort

1410
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 2: of been talking about for a while now, like how

1411
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 2: this movie was marketed successfully as a comedy and also

1412
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 2: prominently features a suicide attempt. I think, I mean that

1413
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 2: was certainly like hinted at in many movies. I think

1414
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,080
Speaker 2: this is one of the more famous examples of a

1415
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 2: suicide attempt being a major plot point. There was a

1416
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 2: really good retrospective piece that came out in twenty twenty,

1417
01:19:55,560 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 2: remember that in The av Club Bike Caroline Seed that

1418
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 2: touches on sort of how the theme of suicide is

1419
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:11,080
Speaker 2: touched upon. I think that in some ways, fran makes

1420
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 2: what appears to be like an unplanned attempt on her

1421
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 2: life after mister Sheldrake leaves in truly the most horrific

1422
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 2: way possible, like he's a He's just like such a

1423
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:28,240
Speaker 2: fucking piece of shit. And as she is recovered from that,

1424
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:32,080
Speaker 2: I felt like the movie didn't judge her in the

1425
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 2: way that I would expect a movie of this time

1426
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 2: to judge her. I think that where I get a

1427
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,799
Speaker 2: little trick is like she is portrayed as so naive

1428
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 2: during her recovery. I want to be generous with her there,

1429
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:49,839
Speaker 2: because she is recovering from something extremely traumatic and extremely

1430
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 2: horrific and she's still sort of coming back to who

1431
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 2: she is. The moment that really sticks with me is

1432
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 2: that she's not judged by Baxter and I'm not like

1433
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 2: Team back, but I think the way that he handled

1434
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 2: the immediate aftermath was thoughtful, especially in the scene where

1435
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 2: he I think that up until this point in the

1436
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 2: movie that I don't know how to correctly phrase this,

1437
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 2: but that you wouldn't see this scenario with a man

1438
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 2: because of how we have been trained by this movie

1439
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 2: and by society at the time to think that men

1440
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 2: are knowingly dogs and women are unknowingly deceived, and that

1441
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 2: is like the binary we've been presented with. And so

1442
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 2: when Baxter comes to her very honestly and is like,

1443
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:38,599
Speaker 2: I once almost made an attempt on my life, also

1444
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 2: over a relationship, and I'm so glad I didn't, and

1445
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 2: here's why, and all of this, and having that be

1446
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 2: like a moment of healing and recognition, even though you know,

1447
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 2: I think realistically she's still not out of the woods

1448
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 2: with navigating her feelings on this. I thought that scene

1449
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 2: is really beautiful and nice.

1450
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:05,080
Speaker 1: I agree, and I also found it surprising, again based

1451
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:08,719
Speaker 1: on the context of the time and the just sort

1452
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:16,800
Speaker 1: of cultural mentality toward suicide and it's misunderstanding of mental

1453
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 1: health and all of that. So yeah, I found the

1454
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: movie to be like very generous with its handling of that,

1455
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:27,800
Speaker 1: especially for the time.

1456
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:30,599
Speaker 2: I love friend, and I also think that someone showing

1457
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 2: up for you in that moment does not mean that

1458
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,640
Speaker 2: you have to be their girlfriend. That's where I have

1459
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:37,799
Speaker 2: a hard time.

1460
01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 1: I mean, to be fair, she does go back to

1461
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:46,839
Speaker 1: shell Drake for reasons. I mean, who among us hasn't

1462
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:52,920
Speaker 1: gone back to a bad relationship, even though we you know,

1463
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 1: logically you know better, but emotionally at that exact moment,

1464
01:22:57,240 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: maybe you don't. So we won't blame her for that.

1465
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 1: But the very jarring thing to me about the recovery

1466
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:09,440
Speaker 1: of the suicide attempt is the scene where the doctor

1467
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 1: is like treating her and then like I think, giving

1468
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:16,760
Speaker 1: her smelling salts or something to help her getting consciousness,

1469
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: and then he slaps her across the face multiple times

1470
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:22,920
Speaker 1: to try to wake her up. I'm sure that was

1471
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: standard medical practice four the time, a little.

1472
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god, necessary to show, I would say.

1473
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,559
Speaker 1: No, it was not necessary to see a man slapping

1474
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:40,120
Speaker 1: a woman across the face like six times in a.

1475
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:43,679
Speaker 2: Row, especially as he was about to become the moral

1476
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:47,479
Speaker 2: compass of the movie not two minutes later.

1477
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know. Nineteen sixty Although when I had

1478
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,600
Speaker 1: my gallbladder surgery in twenty nineteen, and I was like,

1479
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 1: coming out of the anesthesia, I was woken up to

1480
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 1: a doctor slapping me across the face. What so maybe

1481
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 1: it is Yeah, it was like traumatizing and I was like,

1482
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 1: excuse me, is that necessary? But a doctor was slapping

1483
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 1: me in the face to wake me up because they

1484
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 1: thought I was dying because my heart rate was low.

1485
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:18,559
Speaker 1: And then they're like.

1486
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:20,560
Speaker 2: Went vampire mode.

1487
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,840
Speaker 1: They were like, they're like, are you a runner? Like

1488
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:27,559
Speaker 1: do you exercise? I was like yes, and they're like, well,

1489
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,599
Speaker 1: your heart rate is alarmingly low. But if you're a runner,

1490
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 1: that's actually kind of normal. But if you're not, we

1491
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: thought you were dying. So they slapped me just in case.

1492
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 3: And medical slap sometimes I mean like, and we know

1493
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 3: the medical system is so fucked is sobody ways.

1494
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:49,599
Speaker 2: But sometimes I don't know, Like there were times over

1495
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 2: the summer where I was with a doctor. I'm like,

1496
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 2: you're describing like witchcraft. You're just being like, ultimately, we

1497
01:24:57,280 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 2: don't know, we're gonna throw some leaves at it, and

1498
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 2: guy knows what happens. I'm like, I don't feel secure

1499
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:08,679
Speaker 2: in your abilities. I don't trust you live off love.

1500
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:11,320
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, the last thing I have to say

1501
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:14,599
Speaker 2: about Baxter, yeah, is that again I think that this

1502
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 2: is done unevenly throughout the movie. But I appreciated where

1503
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:25,760
Speaker 2: we talk so much on this freaking show about patriarchy

1504
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 2: the guy, and there's one guy who represents all the patriarchy,

1505
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 2: and if we vanquished this one guy, the world will

1506
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 2: be solved, and we will. We've also seen racism the guy,

1507
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:41,840
Speaker 2: and you vanquished racism the guy or it racism the

1508
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 2: lady Brave, and then racism is helved, you know. So

1509
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 2: it's like very clean movie solutions. I like that this

1510
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 2: movie does not subscribe to that. I think that the

1511
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 2: tricky thing is that in the guys who aren't Shell

1512
01:25:56,479 --> 01:26:00,040
Speaker 2: Drake who go to the apartment, as well as the

1513
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 2: women who go with them, are made to be comic

1514
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 2: relief in a way that is funny but kind of

1515
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:11,200
Speaker 2: ultimately a little dissonant. But with Baxter, I really like

1516
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 2: that he is I think the movie knows he is

1517
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,480
Speaker 2: like an agent of the patriarchy because he's quite literally

1518
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 2: an agent of the patriarchy. He is like sharing his

1519
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 2: bed sheets with them for advancement. He is knowingly benefiting

1520
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 2: from this and doesn't give a shit about anyone in

1521
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:35,800
Speaker 2: the equation until it's someone who he cares about who

1522
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 2: is being negatively affected by it. I feel like we

1523
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:43,320
Speaker 2: don't really see characters like that very frequently in a

1524
01:26:43,439 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 2: knowing way. I think where that gets tricky is the

1525
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 2: ending implication that possibly like it almost like positions Shirley

1526
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,080
Speaker 2: mcclan as the reward for realizing he was an agent

1527
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:55,639
Speaker 2: of the patriarchy, where he's like, now that he has

1528
01:26:55,680 --> 01:27:01,160
Speaker 2: abandoned the toxic workplace, that he has walked away from it,

1529
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 2: he can have girlfriend and at the end of the day,

1530
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 2: isn't that what it was all for? Blah blah blah.

1531
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:13,200
Speaker 2: So that that's a little you know, and again that's

1532
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:16,080
Speaker 2: open to interpretation. We've talked about different interpretations of that,

1533
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:19,679
Speaker 2: but I just appreciated that, like normally, when we see

1534
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:24,480
Speaker 2: characters like that, the movie completely absolves them of everything,

1535
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:27,479
Speaker 2: and it's like, at the end, he does get the

1536
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 2: promotion and he's gonna solve insurance from the inside, and

1537
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:34,400
Speaker 2: this movie is smarter than that, right, And I love

1538
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 2: it for that.

1539
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:39,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it still does reward him with at least

1540
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 1: like a woman's tension for that night, unclear if they'll

1541
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:49,759
Speaker 1: like get together romantically. But again it begs the question

1542
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:54,240
Speaker 1: to me, what does she like about him? Besides the

1543
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 1: fact that he's respectful enough to take off his hat

1544
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 1: in the elevator, like, she's given no indication that she's

1545
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:04,680
Speaker 1: romantically interested in him. And I don't know. Maybe you

1546
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,719
Speaker 1: can make the argument that through this journey of her

1547
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 1: relationship with shell Drake and she finally comes to realize, Oh,

1548
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 1: this man doesn't respect me or care for me the

1549
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 1: way a person should. And it seems like Baxter, based

1550
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,600
Speaker 1: on the way he took care of me after my

1551
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:28,480
Speaker 1: suicide attempt, he's the better option. I don't know exactly

1552
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 1: what the implications all are.

1553
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 2: I like that it doesn't tell you what it is, too,

1554
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:38,759
Speaker 2: because then it makes it easier to love this movie

1555
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 2: on a longer timeline, which I want to.

1556
01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:46,320
Speaker 1: That is fair, I because I don't have as much

1557
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 1: of an attachment to it, and I don't feel like

1558
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: at this point, or at least at the point where

1559
01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:57,640
Speaker 1: the movie ends, that Cec Baxter earned the redemption that

1560
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:01,200
Speaker 1: he appears to get by being able to hang out

1561
01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:02,639
Speaker 1: with friend.

1562
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:05,760
Speaker 3: I mean, he he did give up everything he had,

1563
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:10,599
Speaker 3: He did this is jet including the apartment, and he

1564
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:15,679
Speaker 3: did get punched really hard and gave up his apartment

1565
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:19,719
Speaker 3: and his job and his career and like literally has nothing.

1566
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:23,920
Speaker 1: I guess I just think that, yeah, I'm like, men

1567
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:28,520
Speaker 1: should give up that and more to deserve any redemption.

1568
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 2: So I think that again, it is very connected to

1569
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:37,880
Speaker 2: that moment of human connection between the two of them

1570
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:42,040
Speaker 2: when they are sharing this experience of like they have

1571
01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 2: both been at an extremely low point and like, please

1572
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:48,400
Speaker 2: let me share my experience with you, that you might

1573
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:51,799
Speaker 2: take something from it to get through this difficult experience

1574
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,640
Speaker 2: for me. Honestly, I think the movie is heightened if

1575
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 2: they don't end up, or even it being implied that

1576
01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 2: they end up together. But the generous interpretation at the

1577
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:04,600
Speaker 2: ending for me is that again he says I love you,

1578
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 2: I love you so much, and she says, okay, let's

1579
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:10,759
Speaker 2: play cards. I feel like it is like weird thinking

1580
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:13,559
Speaker 2: they are going to get together. But I just what

1581
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 2: I would have loved is just yeah, like another moment

1582
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 2: of like the moments of human connection between the two

1583
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:21,839
Speaker 2: of them. I like, I've had moments of human connections

1584
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:25,640
Speaker 2: with guys who kind of sucked that have been impactful.

1585
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't think that his life should

1586
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,559
Speaker 2: be totally but his life even he's like also not

1587
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 2: for nothing. He is fucked and like that that's not

1588
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,080
Speaker 2: what movies are interested in, nor should they be. But like,

1589
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 2: you know, he's fucked, Like he what is he gonna

1590
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 2: you know, he's he's a guy. He'll bounce bounce back though,

1591
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 2: and I do believe that she will as well. Something

1592
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:50,320
Speaker 2: I like about her character as we're not led to

1593
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:53,439
Speaker 2: believe that like I'm just doing this job until I

1594
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:55,680
Speaker 2: find a husband, Like it seems like she wants to

1595
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:58,880
Speaker 2: have a career like it that's never brought up as

1596
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 2: something that is like a temporary thing for her, and

1597
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:05,160
Speaker 2: judgment isn't passed on her for it. I don't know

1598
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 2: I'm becoming defensive of this movie, but I think that

1599
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:11,280
Speaker 2: like C. C. Baxter, I'm friends with people like C. C. Baxter,

1600
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 2: and the trick is never fuck them. M that's the yeah.

1601
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:19,639
Speaker 3: I mean, I do think that this movie is more

1602
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:25,679
Speaker 3: critical of the sort of social understandings of the time

1603
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:29,439
Speaker 3: than it has to be, yeah, to tell the story,

1604
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:31,559
Speaker 3: and I think that it is like it doesn't let

1605
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 3: this guy off the hook, even though he's not the

1606
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:34,880
Speaker 3: one cheating on his wife, you know what I mean,

1607
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 3: Like he gets all of the consequences that are coming

1608
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:41,920
Speaker 3: to those guys that they never experience because he's standing

1609
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 3: in and saying like, yes, I'm fucking all these women,

1610
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 3: Like he doesn't get to, you know, correct the record

1611
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 3: about like I wasn't actually fucking all those women. Other

1612
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:53,640
Speaker 3: men were doing that in my bed, you know what

1613
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:56,200
Speaker 3: I mean. And he still pays the price for it,

1614
01:31:56,240 --> 01:31:58,800
Speaker 3: and it is still like, well he does owe something, but.

1615
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Anyway, I think that the one hundred dollars

1616
01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:09,600
Speaker 1: that Shell Drake gives to Fran that she should have

1617
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 1: kept it because uh men, oh women money you read

1618
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:18,719
Speaker 1: It's true.

1619
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:20,559
Speaker 2: I would have. I mean, if if I were a friend,

1620
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 2: I would not have made a statement by not keeping

1621
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:25,679
Speaker 2: the money. I'd be like, thank you and goodbye forever.

1622
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:28,160
Speaker 1: This is mine. I deserve this one hundred dollars in

1623
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties money that is one thousand dollars roughly in

1624
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 1: today's money.

1625
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 2: Buddy, let's freaking go to be fair.

1626
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 3: She thought she was going to be dead, that's true,

1627
01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:38,679
Speaker 3: so when she left the money, she had no use

1628
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:40,960
Speaker 3: for it. The only use for the money was to

1629
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:43,519
Speaker 3: say I don't forgive you feel bad that I'm dead,

1630
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 3: which I'm like, Yeah, if she knew she was going

1631
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 3: to live, yeah keep the money. But she didn't, and

1632
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 3: so she got to use it as a fuck you,

1633
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 3: which is cool.

1634
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:54,680
Speaker 2: Another example of Baxter big pro shell Drake where he's like,

1635
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:56,920
Speaker 2: I got one hundred dollars for you, where it's like, well,

1636
01:32:57,640 --> 01:32:59,120
Speaker 2: just let her have, you know, like.

1637
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 1: When she survived. It seems like the money gets returned

1638
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: to chldreake again, but it's like, no, like, you're alive,

1639
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:07,880
Speaker 1: keep it, use it. It's one thousand dollars in twenty

1640
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:08,479
Speaker 1: twenty four men.

1641
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, well he didn't really know what the money was

1642
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:11,799
Speaker 3: at that point.

1643
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:12,800
Speaker 1: That's true.

1644
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:15,719
Speaker 2: Uh, this movie passes the Bechdel test, folks.

1645
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 1: It does good for it.

1646
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 2: It passes primarily between Mildred and Fran when they are

1647
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:27,120
Speaker 2: talking about her recovery, which I feel like is very

1648
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 2: you know, plat relevant, So it passes. I do think

1649
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:34,679
Speaker 2: that Fran again, like most women we see in movies

1650
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 2: to this day, like it would be really cool if

1651
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 2: she had a female friend. Yes, there's no shortage of

1652
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 2: women in this workplace who are marginalized in much the

1653
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 2: same way she is for her to talk to, And

1654
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:49,600
Speaker 2: I feel like that is the way in which it

1655
01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:53,559
Speaker 2: sort of plays into a very like sparse story character

1656
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:57,400
Speaker 2: wise but also just how I think. So often, like

1657
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:03,840
Speaker 2: iconic women characters in older movies are often in a

1658
01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:07,720
Speaker 2: bubble where they are the woman, where we know that

1659
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:09,800
Speaker 2: she lives with her sister, We assume that she has

1660
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:12,960
Speaker 2: some sort of close relationship with her sister, even though

1661
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 2: it's like the only thing we know is like, your

1662
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:16,280
Speaker 2: sister thinks you're a lady. So it's like, well, maybe

1663
01:34:16,280 --> 01:34:18,679
Speaker 2: her sister would slut shame her for being a person

1664
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:21,840
Speaker 2: who knows, But we're surrounded by all of these potential

1665
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,800
Speaker 2: women for her to be allied with. We don't really

1666
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 2: see those conversations, and when we do, like with ms

1667
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 2: Olsen and Friend, it's strictly, you know, centered on the

1668
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:34,720
Speaker 2: shell Drake issue, right, but it does pass. So there

1669
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:35,000
Speaker 2: you go.

1670
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 1: Well, because this movie's only interested in Fran to the

1671
01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:46,519
Speaker 1: extent that she has a blossoming relationship with C. C. Baxter,

1672
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:50,680
Speaker 1: and outside of that, the movie doesn't really have any interests.

1673
01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 2: And I disagree, I disagree.

1674
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:55,920
Speaker 3: I disagree that's not true at all.

1675
01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:58,920
Speaker 1: Then why don't we see her at home, having an

1676
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:01,680
Speaker 1: interior life, having friendships, Like what.

1677
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:03,880
Speaker 2: I don't think that she's the protagonist, but I don't

1678
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:06,160
Speaker 2: think that means the movie is disinterested in her.

1679
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:08,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's interested in her outside of

1680
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:11,400
Speaker 3: her relationship with Baxter, because I think that it's like

1681
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:15,280
Speaker 3: it understands that there's things about her that Baxter doesn't

1682
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,400
Speaker 3: understand because of his preoccupation with a relationship with her,

1683
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:21,120
Speaker 3: that she has all these other dimensions that he's not

1684
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 3: seeing even though he has access to her insurance file,

1685
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:29,160
Speaker 3: Like he gets surprised with information about her that we

1686
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:31,960
Speaker 3: as the audience know, And I think that it's like

1687
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:34,280
Speaker 3: that shows that the movie has more of an interest

1688
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:35,479
Speaker 3: than he does in her.

1689
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I wish we just saw more of

1690
01:35:42,160 --> 01:35:46,120
Speaker 1: her life outside of what we see in the movie.

1691
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 2: I very much would have liked to see her and

1692
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 2: I don't think it would even take away from where

1693
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:52,960
Speaker 2: the focus of the movie seems to want to be.

1694
01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:56,960
Speaker 2: To see her interact with other people at work and again,

1695
01:35:57,040 --> 01:36:01,320
Speaker 2: like have a friendship. That seems like a fault of

1696
01:36:01,360 --> 01:36:04,719
Speaker 2: the movie, especially because it's Billy Wilder movie. It should

1697
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:07,559
Speaker 2: be operating at a higher level, we are introduced to

1698
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 2: a lot of women, So for the interactions between women

1699
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:14,240
Speaker 2: to be so sparse feels telling about like where his

1700
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:16,639
Speaker 2: interests lie. But I don't think that that means that

1701
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:18,080
Speaker 2: the story is disinterested in her.

1702
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:21,160
Speaker 3: And I also think that thematically the movie is like

1703
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:25,479
Speaker 3: it's about this collection of some people who are who

1704
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:30,040
Speaker 3: when Christmas comes around, they're not needed anywhere, Like that's

1705
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:33,400
Speaker 3: part of why, Like he is an observer of other

1706
01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 3: people's lives who just like is doing like the insurance

1707
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:40,759
Speaker 3: information about like people who actually have families and things

1708
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:43,720
Speaker 3: going on, but he doesn't have that for himself. And

1709
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 3: she is literally an elevator operator who's like she takes

1710
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:50,479
Speaker 3: people who have somewhere to go to the places that

1711
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:53,360
Speaker 3: they need to go, and she herself doesn't have those things.

1712
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:56,280
Speaker 3: And so I think even the fact that she has

1713
01:36:56,320 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 3: a family the reason, Like it would be great to

1714
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 3: see her with her family. But I feel like what's

1715
01:37:02,120 --> 01:37:04,559
Speaker 3: important about her character in this movie is that like

1716
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:08,640
Speaker 3: she is being kept on the outside of life in

1717
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:12,000
Speaker 3: the same way that he is, and that like she

1718
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:15,600
Speaker 3: is unable to develop those relationships that you're asking to

1719
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:19,439
Speaker 3: see because of being held in this limbo with this

1720
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 3: relationship with Sheldrake and just like being sort of an

1721
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 3: intermediary in other people's lives, Like that's part of what

1722
01:37:26,280 --> 01:37:27,679
Speaker 3: she's struggling with in the movie.

1723
01:37:28,400 --> 01:37:33,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, with that mind, let's get to our metric,

1724
01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:36,559
Speaker 2: the nipple scale. Yes, how you feel about the movie

1725
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:38,879
Speaker 2: on a scale of one to five nipples based on how.

1726
01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 1: Zero if sorry, wow, Jamie, we've had five hundred.

1727
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:48,120
Speaker 2: I'm so tired. You don't understand. So based on how

1728
01:37:48,160 --> 01:37:51,120
Speaker 2: it deals with intersexual feminist themes.

1729
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:54,920
Speaker 1: Ooh, this is going to be a tricky one for me. Again,

1730
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 1: of the women we do see on screen, it feels

1731
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:04,720
Speaker 1: like they're is like one or two respectable women, and

1732
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:10,120
Speaker 1: everyone else can't be taken seriously because they're the flings

1733
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:13,679
Speaker 1: of the men who are having these extra marital affairs.

1734
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 1: And I just feel like a lot of kind of

1735
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:19,840
Speaker 1: tropes that were popular of women of the time are

1736
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:22,800
Speaker 1: present with a lot of these characters. I do like

1737
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:27,600
Speaker 1: fran as a character a lot. I just wish we

1738
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:32,599
Speaker 1: knew more about her, and maybe I think I also

1739
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:41,599
Speaker 1: just like don't have the language to understand what movies

1740
01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:46,160
Speaker 1: from this era are trying to telegraph. To audiences as

1741
01:38:46,240 --> 01:38:48,800
Speaker 1: much as I should, because there's a lot of stuff

1742
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:51,040
Speaker 1: that I just don't really pick up on and that

1743
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 1: I don't interpret correctly. This happens every time I watch

1744
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 1: an older movie. I'm just like, what are they even

1745
01:38:56,640 --> 01:38:58,720
Speaker 1: trying to say? What are they telling me? Because I

1746
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:01,800
Speaker 1: just like my brain doesn't operate that way, I think. So,

1747
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:06,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about this movie. I

1748
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:09,280
Speaker 1: do want to say that, as is very typical of

1749
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:12,680
Speaker 1: movies of this era, which is a major reflection of

1750
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:18,439
Speaker 1: the rampant racism of the time. This is an entirely

1751
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:22,160
Speaker 1: white cast. There, I think, is one black man you

1752
01:39:22,200 --> 01:39:24,200
Speaker 1: see on screen in the entire movie that's like the

1753
01:39:24,240 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 1: only person of color that you would clock throughout the

1754
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 1: entire movie. And again, as is typical of the movies

1755
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:34,439
Speaker 1: of this era, he's in a service role. He's shining

1756
01:39:34,479 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 1: the shoes of mister Sheldrake. Aside from that, it's an

1757
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:39,160
Speaker 1: entirely white movie.

1758
01:39:39,320 --> 01:39:42,960
Speaker 3: So, and there's the guy playing piano oh at the

1759
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:46,240
Speaker 3: Chinese restaurant who they do have a like his record

1760
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:48,880
Speaker 3: which is called Rickshaw Boy.

1761
01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 2: Uh not great, not good, not good.

1762
01:39:53,160 --> 01:39:56,559
Speaker 1: There's a number of scenes at a Chinese restaurant. That right,

1763
01:39:56,640 --> 01:39:59,360
Speaker 1: you do see some other people of color in the

1764
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:03,800
Speaker 1: background of those scenes. Again, no one really has any

1765
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 1: significant speaking roles or anything like that unless you're a

1766
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:13,720
Speaker 1: white character in this movie. So I'll give the movie.

1767
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:17,880
Speaker 1: I honestly have no idea. I'll give it three nipples,

1768
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 1: question Mark, two nipples, one nipple, four nipples. I have

1769
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:26,160
Speaker 1: no idea. I don't know how to watch movies from

1770
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:29,320
Speaker 1: before nineteen eighty the end.

1771
01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:33,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go three Okay, nice, Yeah,

1772
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:35,559
Speaker 2: who would you like to give your nipples to.

1773
01:40:36,040 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 1: I'll give one to Shirley McLain, I will give one

1774
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:45,880
Speaker 1: to missus Dreyfus, and I'll give my final nipple to

1775
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:50,080
Speaker 1: miss Olsen because again I feel like I projected some

1776
01:40:50,120 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 1: stuff onto her and that was not fair of me

1777
01:40:54,360 --> 01:40:54,600
Speaker 1: to do.

1778
01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 3: It's good to be honest.

1779
01:40:57,560 --> 01:40:59,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll settle on three nipples, and I have no

1780
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:03,280
Speaker 1: idea if that's actually how I feel or not, because

1781
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:06,559
Speaker 1: again I don't know how to watch old movies.

1782
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:10,639
Speaker 3: I think you're overthinking it. I think you're like wondering

1783
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:12,680
Speaker 3: what this movie is trying to telegraph, and it's not

1784
01:41:12,760 --> 01:41:15,680
Speaker 3: trying to say something like it's trying to make you

1785
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:19,519
Speaker 3: think about questions. I think it's like it feels like

1786
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:24,879
Speaker 3: it's trying to challenge, like who's getting left behind? Yeah,

1787
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:27,000
Speaker 3: and make you think about that, you know what I mean.

1788
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:30,040
Speaker 3: Like it's talking about what's happening at the margins, you

1789
01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:30,559
Speaker 3: know what I mean.

1790
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 1: Which I enjoy stories the center, those characters and that

1791
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:39,519
Speaker 1: type of narrative. But I don't know, like, at the

1792
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:41,400
Speaker 1: end of the day, while I do think the movie

1793
01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:46,120
Speaker 1: is well written, I just it's just not really for

1794
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:50,360
Speaker 1: me and I have nothing else to say about it.

1795
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:52,479
Speaker 2: I'm going for a nipples. Yeah, I have nothing else

1796
01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:55,479
Speaker 2: to say because I have to pee and leave, so

1797
01:41:56,400 --> 01:42:00,559
Speaker 2: I and I'm going to give one to you Fran,

1798
01:42:01,200 --> 01:42:04,960
Speaker 2: one to miss Olsen, and I'm gonna give one to

1799
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:08,479
Speaker 2: missus Sheldrake while I'm at it, because I hope she

1800
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 2: was on to bigger, better, less piece of shit flop

1801
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:17,559
Speaker 2: husband type activities hell yeah, following this movie, and those

1802
01:42:17,560 --> 01:42:18,720
Speaker 2: are where my nipples are gonna go.

1803
01:42:18,880 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 3: Nice Emily, I'm gonna give it three nipples. I'm gonna

1804
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 3: give one to Fran and then I'm going to give

1805
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:25,960
Speaker 3: the other two to that woman whose jockey husband was

1806
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:29,519
Speaker 3: being held hostage in Cuba because she was supposed to

1807
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 3: have sex that night and she didn't get to have sex.

1808
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:35,240
Speaker 2: And she was appropriately pissed off about it, where she

1809
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:38,000
Speaker 2: was like, we made the lonely person's packed.

1810
01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 3: How could you? What the hell is going on here?

1811
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was so excited that she was gonna

1812
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:49,240
Speaker 1: fuck the guy who's like, I'm a sex pot. She's like,

1813
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:50,200
Speaker 1: you're a sex pot.

1814
01:42:50,320 --> 01:42:53,720
Speaker 2: Woo. Yeah, which I feel like the movie's and on

1815
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:56,360
Speaker 2: the joke, like the number one indication that someone is

1816
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:59,040
Speaker 2: not actually a sex pot is if they cannot stop

1817
01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 2: saying that. Yeah, it's always who you least suspect. Yeah,

1818
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:06,799
Speaker 2: all right, well that's the apartment Everily, thank.

1819
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:08,640
Speaker 3: You so much for joining us, my gosh, thank you

1820
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:10,519
Speaker 3: for having me, and thank you for getting me to

1821
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:13,280
Speaker 3: watch this movie that I probably wouldn't have watched us

1822
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:14,680
Speaker 3: quickly because I loved it.

1823
01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:19,240
Speaker 1: Any time? Where can people check out your podcast? Follow

1824
01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:20,679
Speaker 1: you on social media, et cetera.

1825
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:24,000
Speaker 3: I'm at mister Emily Heller on all social media, and

1826
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:28,000
Speaker 3: you can subscribe to what is a Jeopardy Podcast wherever

1827
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:29,760
Speaker 3: you get your podcasts oooh.

1828
01:43:31,080 --> 01:43:34,559
Speaker 1: You can follow us on social media as while at

1829
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast. You can go to our link tree link

1830
01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:41,640
Speaker 1: tree slash Bechtel Cast and grab tickets to our upcoming

1831
01:43:41,680 --> 01:43:46,439
Speaker 1: tour in the UK at the end of May. And

1832
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:49,360
Speaker 1: you can go to our Patreon Patreon dot com slash

1833
01:43:49,400 --> 01:43:52,479
Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast, where you get two bonus episodes every month

1834
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:57,960
Speaker 1: plus access to the Beck catalog for five dollars a month.

1835
01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:01,000
Speaker 2: Wow, And you can get our merch over at tipublic

1836
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:05,280
Speaker 2: dot com slash v Bechdel Cast. Get our tickets to

1837
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:08,479
Speaker 2: our upcoming tour in the UK if you haven't already

1838
01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:12,519
Speaker 2: on our link tree. And with that, let's give up

1839
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 2: our apartment and wander into the unknown.

1840
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:24,720
Speaker 1: Woo Hi Hi. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,

1841
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:28,679
Speaker 1: hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman,

1842
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:32,360
Speaker 1: edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by

1843
01:44:32,400 --> 01:44:36,680
Speaker 1: Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Volskrosensky. Our logo in

1844
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 1: merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks

1845
01:44:40,120 --> 01:44:44,320
Speaker 1: to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please

1846
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:46,720
Speaker 1: visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast