Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. What's up to everybody?
Speaker 1: Thank you for checking in. We have another wonderful episode.
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful that y'all continue to check in and
Speaker 1: subscribe and download our podcast now today, I'm so excited
Speaker 1: I've said that word about three times already in the
Speaker 1: span of one minute to have this beautiful guest checking
Speaker 1: in with us. Her name is David Brown. When I
Speaker 1: tell y'all, she is so soothing. She focuses on mental health,
Speaker 1: you know, an advocate for healing. She is an author,
Speaker 1: a successful podcaster, master educator, and y'all, she works for
Speaker 1: organizations such as Chase, Microsoft, Chopra, and other Fortune five companies.
Speaker 1: Please welcome Debbie Brown. Yeah, I'm so happy to be
Speaker 1: here girl. Okay, y'all, I've been following Dabby for a
Speaker 1: couple of years now. She inspires me as someone with
Speaker 1: consistency about what her calling is. And as much as
Speaker 1: we could veer off and be tempted because social media
Speaker 1: will make you feel like you're supposed to be a healer,
Speaker 1: a mental health advocate, a gardener, a singer. Uh hor wash,
Speaker 1: then I feel like, Okay, I didn't clean my shoper
Speaker 1: good enough. Because Timorrow Bradshaw, she's on Instagram. She uses
Speaker 1: these rubbers and she got Amazon links to where you
Speaker 1: can buy all these cleaning supplies. But Debbie, you just
Speaker 1: you know, you're an educator and you do amazing healing work,
Speaker 1: not only for individuals, but fortune companies call on you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for this reflection. I feel so seen girl, right,
Speaker 1: I so know what you're speaking to. And I think
Speaker 1: so many were in this kind of vacuum for really
Speaker 1: the last decade, since we all started actively using Instagram
Speaker 1: and social media so regularly, like it changed the way people.
Speaker 1: I think we're able to adult because we were in
Speaker 1: this vacuum of comparison kind of without our consent. It
Speaker 1: started out as like excitement of like, wow, there's so
Speaker 1: many different people, people live so differently, or wow, I
Speaker 1: can get this knowledge or information here. I found my tribe,
Speaker 1: and then it turned into I think for so many
Speaker 1: living a life of not enoughness, a feeling like everything
Speaker 1: had to be documented, everything you had to teach because
Speaker 1: you did it once, or you know, everything has to
Speaker 1: be compared to well, am I doing great? If I
Speaker 1: look at that person and and I think it's just
Speaker 1: a very unnatural, really twisted, unhelpful and healthy way to live.
Speaker 1: And so like the way I am on social media,
Speaker 1: I just I want to be very clear because I'm
Speaker 1: not an influencer. I'm not here for the people. I'm
Speaker 1: here to share the work God calls me to and
Speaker 1: I'm here to share things that I find interesting and
Speaker 1: hopefully the people that find me. You know, we can
Speaker 1: kind of speak the same language. But I'm not looking
Speaker 1: to attract everyone. I'm not looking to build my following.
Speaker 1: I'm looking to live my work where you always okay
Speaker 1: with that, where you ever tempted to, like say, like,
Speaker 1: I'll okay, y'all, she's gorgeous, aesthetically right, where you ever
Speaker 1: tempted to be like, you know what, I could get
Speaker 1: a red can deal for my curls. Who ever see
Speaker 1: if they call you, please, if shame moister, whoever wants
Speaker 1: to invest in you, please, ma'am, go for it. But
Speaker 1: always bring it back to healing. Always bring it back
Speaker 1: to heal. You know, absolutely, yes, you know. To answer
Speaker 1: your question, I think I'll be really honest with you,
Speaker 1: Like I think we're in the age of authenticity. I
Speaker 1: think that we are in a new era of women
Speaker 1: of ways that were allowed to be multi hyphen it, multidimensional,
Speaker 1: And I think because of that now it feels more
Speaker 1: comfortable for me to be myself on social. But I
Speaker 1: had a hard time. I'm not naturally pulled to do
Speaker 1: things I see other people doing, like my spirit kind
Speaker 1: of rejects it, maybe in an over the top way sometimes.
Speaker 1: But I felt like, honestly, like I didn't belong on
Speaker 1: social for years because there was this whole era where
Speaker 1: the in thing to do was to share how good
Speaker 1: you were at tearing another person down, you know, like
Speaker 1: there was this error or anything that you would say someone,
Speaker 1: some stranger in a distant land or somewhere else would
Speaker 1: just meet you with negativity. And it was years of that,
Speaker 1: and anytime I try to poke my up and be
Speaker 1: myself on social, I'd get these comments that would say,
Speaker 1: so many you're stupid, you're ugly, you're this, or oh,
Speaker 1: you think like the most irrational things. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: as someone that does not believe in tearing people down,
Speaker 1: for someone that it doesn't occur to to try to
Speaker 1: show off my language and my vocabulary by how painful
Speaker 1: it can be for someone else. Yeah, And I was
Speaker 1: sharing that I've been sharing the same stuff for years,
Speaker 1: but it just wasn't resonating because we were in a
Speaker 1: different moment as a society. Either we weren't ready or
Speaker 1: it just wasn't God's time. How many people have been
Speaker 1: doing this for years and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: one thing that they said resonates with millions or it
Speaker 1: goes viral. But you're like, I've been talking to talk
Speaker 1: for ten years. I've been doing this, you know. And
Speaker 1: so I love timing. I love God's timing. I love
Speaker 1: when he knows that something that you have to share
Speaker 1: is me did on a broad scale in the world
Speaker 1: and in this earth, and God makes it happen. That
Speaker 1: makes it happen. I love to see the elevation of
Speaker 1: people in which I can spot and say God did that.
Speaker 1: They didn't manipulate it themselves. God did that. That is
Speaker 1: so beautiful everything that you're saying, it's just like this
Speaker 1: morning I was I was driving back from dropping my
Speaker 1: son at preschool, and I just felt so overwhelmingly grateful
Speaker 1: for the divine timing of God, you know, And and
Speaker 1: every time that I was irritated in my life, or
Speaker 1: felt like things weren't fast enough for that it should
Speaker 1: be now, or like this, I just felt so grateful
Speaker 1: for every time I didn't get my way because it
Speaker 1: wasn't right. It's not right until it's right. And you
Speaker 1: can't see that into the patients, like the surrender that
Speaker 1: the cultivating a deep practice of patients. People don't speak
Speaker 1: to the challenge of it enough. But it's hard. It's hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard to be patient when you think you know,
Speaker 1: it's hard to be patient when the world is moving
Speaker 1: at a particular speed or frequency. But it is always
Speaker 1: in divine time, always, And it's amazing when you talk
Speaker 1: about the world is moving at a particular speed. Yes,
Speaker 1: the world is moving at a particular speed, but you
Speaker 1: still have a soul, you still have a physical part
Speaker 1: of the body. And I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: us were stressed and burnt out because we're trying to
Speaker 1: move at the speed. It's like we're on a freeway.
Speaker 1: Say the speed limit is seventy okay, on seventy okay,
Speaker 1: maybe seventy five, but then there's a car, other cars
Speaker 1: are going and it's we're naturally inclined. At least I
Speaker 1: am to be like, oh, I've got to go with
Speaker 1: the flow of traffic. When I mean the flow of traffic,
Speaker 1: how fast traffic is going. So I like in what
Speaker 1: we see on a daily basis, say on social media,
Speaker 1: they almost dictate other cars how fast you're spooks to
Speaker 1: be and it has you out of time altgorithm. You
Speaker 1: might arrive to your destination early and you ain't ready
Speaker 1: to be there so early, or you get out the
Speaker 1: car and the door is locked because you ain't supposed
Speaker 1: to be there right now. It's you early. They ain't
Speaker 1: even unlock the doors yet. But I got here early,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, versus at the right time.
Speaker 1: And I'm excited to talk to you about healing and
Speaker 1: timing of it. That was so beautiful. Yes, yes, yes, y'all.
Speaker 1: I met Debbie in person as Charlemagne's Mental Wealth Summit
Speaker 1: in New York and um, there were so many amazing
Speaker 1: people in the room practitioners, psychiatrist, psychologists, and therapist. But
Speaker 1: your process might be a little different in the healing
Speaker 1: space than that of traditional therapy. Get us into your
Speaker 1: process of how it's different than traditional therapy. I really
Speaker 1: believe that to truly heal, to truly release things, to
Speaker 1: truly call in more for your life, a higher vision,
Speaker 1: to come into the real remembrance of your wholeness, to
Speaker 1: expand in who you are. It is never one thing.
Speaker 1: So I think therapy is phenomenal psychiatry. It's phenomenal. Praise
Speaker 1: God for the ways that these fields have been able
Speaker 1: to evolve over the centuries, for for the kind of
Speaker 1: knowledge we're able to come to about ourselves now. And
Speaker 1: just that won't get you there. It won't, I won't,
Speaker 1: And I think everyone really knows that. You know, sometimes
Speaker 1: you get caught up in loops and therapy. Now, this
Speaker 1: is a separate conversation from the conversation about de stigmatizing
Speaker 1: mental health. That we still need to be talking about
Speaker 1: access to therapy, accessed um to group therapy, cognitive therapy,
Speaker 1: somatic therapy, all of them. And once you've begun that journey,
Speaker 1: now there's a separate conversation of how to elevate even higher,
Speaker 1: how to become even more yourself, how to heal even deeper.
Speaker 1: I don't think healing is sustainable in our lives. To
Speaker 1: create a new practice, a new set of experiences without
Speaker 1: a holistic approach, you have to look at the mental, physical, emotional,
Speaker 1: and spiritual view of yourself, and you have to come
Speaker 1: into healing of all four of those components. And this
Speaker 1: is in no way a criticism of wherever anyone is at.
Speaker 1: This is just letting everyone know there's more available. You know,
Speaker 1: the thing about therapy, depending on what type you're getting.
Speaker 1: Most people, the first access point of therapy is cognitive therapy,
Speaker 1: which is talk therapy, and it's a powerful tool. But
Speaker 1: after a while, once it equips you with the language
Speaker 1: that you need to express yourself, once it equips you
Speaker 1: with the understanding of things that have happened to you
Speaker 1: and you've had the space to express them, to get
Speaker 1: why is expert counsel on them, then there's more because
Speaker 1: you can always get stuck in a roumin nation. Now
Speaker 1: you have the language, and then you find five years
Speaker 1: later you're still chewing on the same things you uncovered.
Speaker 1: If anyone finds themselves in that where you are still
Speaker 1: talking about the same patterns in therapy all the time,
Speaker 1: you're still stuck on perhaps one of the facets of
Speaker 1: your healing, or you're just repeating the pattern with new people,
Speaker 1: and so you're going in there to work the same
Speaker 1: process but with new relationships, it's time to elevate, it's
Speaker 1: time to expand, it's time to push yourself more. And
Speaker 1: then I would really recommend that people find a somatic approach.
Speaker 1: I believe in blending psychology and spirituality. I think that
Speaker 1: regardless of belief system, it's incredibly powerful for everyone to
Speaker 1: have a devotional practice. You know, there is nothing about
Speaker 1: my life that moves without God. There is not a thing.
Speaker 1: Everything about my relationship with Creator informs all the other
Speaker 1: work that I do, everything and every way that I'm
Speaker 1: able to heal whatever goal I'm currently working on with that, so,
Speaker 1: I think everyone can deeply, transformationally, mind blowingly connect with
Speaker 1: the most elevated versions of themselves when they look at
Speaker 1: a holistic approach, start getting curious, start seeing some of
Speaker 1: the phenomenal healing modalities and ancient wisdom that we have
Speaker 1: had for centuries at our fingertips. It's a little bit science,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit expertise, and then it's a little
Speaker 1: bit mystery. I'm still glad you talked about science and spirituality.
Speaker 1: We are spirits. We have a body that houses the soul.
Speaker 1: We are a spirit, and a lot of us we
Speaker 1: work on the physical. We look good, we go to
Speaker 1: the gym, we eat all the right things. But then
Speaker 1: it's like, man, if we can get that spiritual side
Speaker 1: to match the physical, and how self aware you'll become.
Speaker 1: I believe you will treat people better. I've even become
Speaker 1: so much more aware because of spending time spiritually in
Speaker 1: the morning. I call it my first fruit. Or I
Speaker 1: don't do anything in the morning before I've done a
Speaker 1: devotional prayer or something, and then it makes me not
Speaker 1: want to look at stuff on the internet that's gonna
Speaker 1: like desecrate everything that I've done, you know, to get
Speaker 1: my day started. We're like sponges, Debbie, you agree, like
Speaker 1: our spirits take on and we feel everything, and if
Speaker 1: you don't, you're just hardened. And I used to be
Speaker 1: that hardened person. A friend of mine, April Mason, said
Speaker 1: the other day that maybe we have faith for a car,
Speaker 1: maybe we have faith for a new house or to
Speaker 1: get that degree. Right, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get it. I'm gonna get it. But we don't use
Speaker 1: that same faith and say, man, I also deserve wholeness,
Speaker 1: and you you always say, seek the path that demands
Speaker 1: your whole being. M I'm gonna get this car, honey, Oh,
Speaker 1: who want to get me a husband or a wife?
Speaker 1: And but we need some healing so we can maintain
Speaker 1: these things that were, these other things we've got faith for. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you know, Okay, First, I would say the quote
Speaker 1: that you just spoke to it comes from the Great
Speaker 1: Sufi mystic Roomy. Roomy's poetry was ten twelve years ago
Speaker 1: my first foray into being with myself, into opening to like, joy,
Speaker 1: to beauty, too deeper understanding. And that quote changed the
Speaker 1: course of my life when I first heard it. And
Speaker 1: the full quote is seek the wisdom that will untie
Speaker 1: your not seek the path that demands your whole being.
Speaker 1: And when I heard that, it's like your whole being,
Speaker 1: so seeking a path that is requiring all of you.
Speaker 1: It's requiring you to operate on all cylinders as all
Speaker 1: of who you are, which is what God wants for us.
Speaker 1: And seek the path that demands your whole being, like
Speaker 1: live the life with people in circumstances that require you
Speaker 1: to be in wholeness, that require you to be your
Speaker 1: elevated self. You know, I don't want to be the
Speaker 1: smartest person in the room. I don't want to be
Speaker 1: the most healed person in the room. I want to
Speaker 1: live my path, not comparatively, and continue to learn and
Speaker 1: expand with the array of information so many of us hold,
Speaker 1: and wisdom that we hold. You know, the path of wholeness.
Speaker 1: It's available to everyone, but it's not for the faint
Speaker 1: of heart. I would be really remiss if I package
Speaker 1: the way I talked about the healing of the human
Speaker 1: spirit through tips and hacks and tricks and quick little
Speaker 1: you know, like lists of things you can do each day.
Speaker 1: You have to get in the gutter with yourself. You
Speaker 1: have to be willing to surrender every thought you have
Speaker 1: about who you are. You have to be willing to
Speaker 1: look into the deepest crevices of the things that cause
Speaker 1: you pain so you can free yourself of them. And
Speaker 1: at first, so much of that sounds scary, but it's
Speaker 1: what we're built to do. We are designed to do this.
Speaker 1: We can do this big, hard work. But so often
Speaker 1: I think, and I say this with a lot of
Speaker 1: expanded reverence for what the Church has meant to so
Speaker 1: many for centuries, but some of the issues I think
Speaker 1: some people are starting to notice, especially people that have
Speaker 1: perhaps spent their entire lives going to church and know
Speaker 1: the Word and have felt God. The church hasn't always
Speaker 1: equipped people with the tools to know God for themselves.
Speaker 1: Very often, the church depending on who you're with, and
Speaker 1: I want to say, this is not a monolith. So
Speaker 1: some people have true anointed leadership that is not trying
Speaker 1: to hoard God as the middleman, and some really don't.
Speaker 1: And you know, very often you go to church and
Speaker 1: you'll hear these powerful sermons and these incredible stories from
Speaker 1: the Bible, and the way they're talking to you about
Speaker 1: it on stage is to just channel that towards the car,
Speaker 1: or towards the promotion, or towards something that is surface
Speaker 1: that God could give a damn about, you know, like
Speaker 1: God doesn't care about cars, Like these are things we invented.
Speaker 1: God knows how to speak to you through your growth,
Speaker 1: through the ways that you're able to expand your heart
Speaker 1: into love. Through that process us you're able to attract
Speaker 1: higher outcomes, which can allow for you to have the
Speaker 1: more comfortable vehicle, which can allow for you to have,
Speaker 1: you know, the job that is really speaking to your
Speaker 1: soul's purpose. But we have to stop asking for the
Speaker 1: small things and we have to ask to get unstuck
Speaker 1: from everything that's blocking us from getting what we want.
Speaker 1: So if I need a new car, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to necessarily just pray about the car. I will pray
Speaker 1: that God gives me a solution. But I'm also going
Speaker 1: to pray God, what is my work? What am I
Speaker 1: avoiding in myself? What are the decisions I need to
Speaker 1: make to position myself to have the receptivity to bring
Speaker 1: that car and to bring the better life in. But
Speaker 1: it's everything else, you know, It's your relationship with yourself,
Speaker 1: it's your understanding of your childhood. The thing that is
Speaker 1: so interesting to me is sometimes I'll, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: speak to people that are so beautifully equipped with the word,
Speaker 1: they memory rised it, but their ability to live it
Speaker 1: is so limited. And very often, you know, everyone wants
Speaker 1: to speak to the power of Christ, of Jesus, but
Speaker 1: are not actually in practice to walk the path Christ
Speaker 1: existed to show us how to live. To be christ like,
Speaker 1: and to be christ Like doesn't mean to be this
Speaker 1: saint up on a shelf. It means to make honorable choices.
Speaker 1: It means to love yourself. It means to be in
Speaker 1: relationship with God every single day. To be in relationship
Speaker 1: with God every single day will look different for it
Speaker 1: very body. And I am finding that. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: one of the ones that you're talking about. I grew
Speaker 1: up in church every single day. It was my foundation.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I started traveling on the road
Speaker 1: professionally that I had to cultivate a relationship with God
Speaker 1: for myself because I didn't have a church to go
Speaker 1: to every Sunday on the road, right, Sometimes we had
Speaker 1: shows on Sunday. Sometimes Sunday was a travel day to
Speaker 1: prepare us for Monday. Right. So I think my growth,
Speaker 1: my strength came from well, church being my foundation. But
Speaker 1: church is different, the church being where we went to fellowship,
Speaker 1: where I believe is community what we need even from slavery,
Speaker 1: we found a community to go to the praise, sing
Speaker 1: songs of worship. Right, But then what happens when you
Speaker 1: go outside those four walls of churches Monday? Right? And
Speaker 1: so learning that I couldn't depend on just the pastor's
Speaker 1: sermon on Sunday, I needed to apply that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,
Speaker 1: Saturday in time for Sunday. And if maybe you go
Speaker 1: to We went to Bible study during the week. We
Speaker 1: also went to a a quire hours and during the week,
Speaker 1: so I was there in the physical four walls of
Speaker 1: the church all the time. But like I said, the
Speaker 1: real relationship with God, because those were just doings, right,
Speaker 1: but the real relationship with God to where I learned
Speaker 1: him who I am. It's happened for me outside of
Speaker 1: the actual sanctuary. My home had to become my sanctuary.
Speaker 1: My bedroom had to become a sanctuary, my hotel room
Speaker 1: had to become a sanctuary. Tour bus had to become
Speaker 1: a freaking sanctuary. Lord, I didn't mean to say freaking sanctuary.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, uh, But and on that path things happen.
Speaker 1: Relationships break apart. Certain things that you've wanted in your
Speaker 1: life and career you didn't get and so a piece
Speaker 1: of you get broken, broken, broken every single day, and
Speaker 1: you're not whole. Can a person be completely whole? Or
Speaker 1: is it just wholeness and healing? Are just gonna be journeys?
Speaker 1: And will we be completely old and or healed? I
Speaker 1: think yes, I believe yes, to be fully hold and healed.
Speaker 1: It does not mean that the circumstances of life are
Speaker 1: necessarily going to be that much easier. Earth is a
Speaker 1: challenging place. We just hit eight billion in our population,
Speaker 1: and the majority of that eight billion are unconscious. It's
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are not going to do
Speaker 1: their work while they're alive. And so you're going to
Speaker 1: do all this work of healing of wholeness and you're
Speaker 1: still going to be living here. It justice and I
Speaker 1: think that's where acceptance comes in, and I think we
Speaker 1: can I think there are deep levels of enlightenment that
Speaker 1: a very rare few meet in their lifetimes, right Like,
Speaker 1: there's some you think of the Dali Llama. I think
Speaker 1: it's pretty safe to say he was always intended to
Speaker 1: be this enlightened being that shares consciousness in the way
Speaker 1: that he does. I can't imagine the Dalai Lama with
Speaker 1: a teenage life like mine. You know, Like, there are
Speaker 1: some beings that I think hold space for the rest
Speaker 1: of the world to uplift too. But then I also think,
Speaker 1: you know, people ask me all the time, like do
Speaker 1: you have bad days? Right Like do you get really angry?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, I'm a human being, Like I'm
Speaker 1: meant to feel all the full spectrum of emotion. I
Speaker 1: don't have less crazy ship that happens to me. I'll
Speaker 1: say that I don't have, probably less than most, but
Speaker 1: the way I relate to it is completely different. You know,
Speaker 1: if if something doesn't happen in the way that I
Speaker 1: visualized it, I think my wholeness really displays itself as
Speaker 1: the deep faith that well, then that was the right choice.
Speaker 1: You know. If that wasn't mine, then it's not mine.
Speaker 1: If this didn't happen the way I wanted it to,
Speaker 1: even if I really thought so, then that is not
Speaker 1: the path. And so whenever I pray for something, I
Speaker 1: say something very specific. I may ask for X, Y,
Speaker 1: and z. As in the prayer, I say this or
Speaker 1: something better for the highest good? God, Can I please
Speaker 1: have this or something better for the highest good? Because
Speaker 1: I also don't want to place limits on God. That's
Speaker 1: so good this or better than this or the highest good.
Speaker 1: Would you say an indicator of healing and wholeness is
Speaker 1: in your response to the shenanigans of yes, oh my God,
Speaker 1: God gave you my answer, I was like, who ah,
Speaker 1: wholeness is maybe not even a feeling. Healing is not
Speaker 1: a feeling. Yes, how you, Oh my God, that's good? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: because that's the thing. It's it's once you get a healing,
Speaker 1: once you get kind of that new depth of yourself,
Speaker 1: it's about building a life that supports it, that continues
Speaker 1: to make that true. So that does mean you don't
Speaker 1: really stay in the life that you had. Ever a
Speaker 1: thing has to change with you, and sometimes that means
Speaker 1: casting some people aside, walking away from some circumstances, jobs, people, places, things.
Speaker 1: But if there is a trust, and if there is
Speaker 1: a commitment to living a healed whole life, you adjust.
Speaker 1: We are highly adaptable beings, adjust trusted enough to leave
Speaker 1: behind things even if you don't understand why. Oh this
Speaker 1: leads to my next question. I read something where you
Speaker 1: were saying, I'm paraphrasing, but you're an expert at boundaries,
Speaker 1: setting boundaries. Yeah, oh I love boundaries, she said. I
Speaker 1: love boundaries. You said it as if you said, oh,
Speaker 1: my love almond joys or kids. I love kind bars,
Speaker 1: Oh I love bread putting God. I love boundaries of
Speaker 1: truly because every time I have the opportunity to feel
Speaker 1: discomfort and set a boundary anyway, I unlock a new
Speaker 1: layer of myself in my life. I am always, always,
Speaker 1: always met with a better outcome than I could have imagined.
Speaker 1: And it takes work. You know the thing about boundaries,
Speaker 1: it took years of practice to love them. There was
Speaker 1: a time one. It's hard to admit that your life
Speaker 1: has lacked boundaries, right, especially if you are somebody that
Speaker 1: shows up powerfully in other, you know, avenues of your life.
Speaker 1: It's hard to say, oh, whoa, but in this area,
Speaker 1: Holy shit, I've been letting everybody get away with things.
Speaker 1: You know. It's challenging to look at that, but to
Speaker 1: look at it and get curious and say, well, why
Speaker 1: the hell have I been doing that? Why have I
Speaker 1: been doing that? Can I make another choice? Making that
Speaker 1: choice is so uncomfortable, let me still make it anyway,
Speaker 1: and let me just privately scream it out. When I
Speaker 1: started setting injuries in my personal life, it then led
Speaker 1: me to realize that I needed to set boundaries in
Speaker 1: my work life. I needed to set boundaries in every
Speaker 1: facet of how I interact with people Like you get
Speaker 1: this beautiful kind of revolving door of practice when you
Speaker 1: commit to it. And the first you know I knew
Speaker 1: walking in that I was doing things that I wasn't
Speaker 1: good at. I knew that I was going to have
Speaker 1: to practice a new way of being. That really triggered me,
Speaker 1: That really made me uncomfortable, That really made me look
Speaker 1: at more painful parts of my own past of oh, wow,
Speaker 1: you've you've actually let yourself down quite a bit, you know.
Speaker 1: I had to really look at that. I had to
Speaker 1: look at my role in my choices, my role in
Speaker 1: people overstepping my boundaries. And it's hard. It's hard because
Speaker 1: it it's always a two way street. It is never
Speaker 1: just what someone else is doing. It is never just
Speaker 1: that they won't respect you, that they won't this. Why
Speaker 1: do you allow it? What are you allowing? You know,
Speaker 1: It's always a two way street. You have to look
Speaker 1: at both sides. And the first when I first started
Speaker 1: realizing I needed to set boundaries in my life, I
Speaker 1: would I would do it, and then I would be
Speaker 1: consumed with anxiety and I'd be thinking of, oh my god,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna think this about me and then this,
Speaker 1: and I would literally just say, grin and Barrett, you
Speaker 1: will not change your response. You will not send another message,
Speaker 1: you will not be passive aggressive, you will not song
Speaker 1: and dance. And I would grab a pillow and I'd
Speaker 1: go into the other room, and sometimes I would scream.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I would cry because I hated that it was
Speaker 1: so hard for me. It felt embarrassing, It felt like
Speaker 1: what the hell? Who am I? And then it quickly
Speaker 1: gets better. The second you say yes to yourself, the
Speaker 1: second you enforced that first boundary and do not change
Speaker 1: your stance, life opens up. You got you get more
Speaker 1: and more opportunities every day to practice. Now you're staying
Speaker 1: no twenty five times a day, and you probably hadn't
Speaker 1: said no in ten years, and that practice opens up,
Speaker 1: and before you know it, a couple of months have
Speaker 1: past and you are your own personal expert at protecting yourself,
Speaker 1: at setting boundaries and at making better choices. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: I told a friend of mine that you don't have
Speaker 1: to announce when you set a boundary. M Dr Darius
Speaker 1: Daniels says it as well. He was like, every adjustment
Speaker 1: don't need to be announced either, right, So some of
Speaker 1: that anxiety about setting a boundary and or making that
Speaker 1: adjustment for me has subsided. When I when I reminded
Speaker 1: myself and the friend, like, you don't have to announce it,
Speaker 1: just subtly m make the adjustment and guess what Debbie,
Speaker 1: I've been on the receiving end of someone setting boundaries
Speaker 1: with me. How does it feel? It don't feel good.
Speaker 1: I learned I was spoiled entitled Wow, yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: like okay. So for someone that said a boundary with me, yeah,
Speaker 1: I almost okay. It made me want to be a
Speaker 1: safe person. And it also made me because you talk
Speaker 1: about the passive aggressive. I was very passive aggressive, which
Speaker 1: can irritate the other person, like why don't you just
Speaker 1: say what's your chest? Say? Or don't come to me?
Speaker 1: Five days later with the circumstance, and you've been him
Speaker 1: and a a harn dancing like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So we talked about girls that boundaries with people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but be ready for when a person sets a boundary
Speaker 1: with you, make the apologies, create a safe environment so
Speaker 1: that person can maybe adjust the boundary because they're entitled
Speaker 1: to adjusting the boundaries as they see it. Are you
Speaker 1: a safe person with them? Dr? Henry Cloud, John Towns
Speaker 1: and the book Safe People. I remember reading the book.
Speaker 1: I remember, I can't wait to read this book because
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be able to tell my ex all about himself.
Speaker 1: The first few chapters of the book it was telling
Speaker 1: me about me, So I want to encourage people like Yo,
Speaker 1: it's it feels good to set those boundaries. But I'm
Speaker 1: telling you, don't be so high in might even and
Speaker 1: think you're so perfect that somebody is out there is
Speaker 1: gonna have to set a boundary with you. It don't
Speaker 1: feel good, But imagine they don't feel good to them
Speaker 1: when you set a boundary with them as well. That
Speaker 1: is so so so beautiful and so powerful. Like if
Speaker 1: everyone listening could do both of these things we just
Speaker 1: spoke to. Your life changes radically, urgently, completely, And I think,
Speaker 1: like what you just spoke to about even giving that
Speaker 1: grace when you're not getting your way is so amazing
Speaker 1: and something I think of, you know, something I really
Speaker 1: try to do intuitively. You can notice people in your
Speaker 1: life that are trying to make a new way for
Speaker 1: themselves right, that are are making themselves uncomfortable, that are
Speaker 1: testing out boundaries as you said, and really working your
Speaker 1: process inside so you can be a soft place to
Speaker 1: land for them is so important. You know, being able
Speaker 1: to give people the kind of response that you would
Speaker 1: crave to receive from people when you are looking to
Speaker 1: try on new ways of being. It is one of
Speaker 1: the greatest gifts we can give ourselves and others, you know.
Speaker 1: And and sometimes because I move really fast, I process
Speaker 1: things really fast. I talk a lot. I'm very descriptive
Speaker 1: and expressive. But that's also my gift. That's not a
Speaker 1: way of being that everyone has. And so for me,
Speaker 1: a lot of my work, when I'm in conversation with
Speaker 1: people I love, it's to slow down and to be quiet,
Speaker 1: and to not speak their words for them, and to
Speaker 1: notice when I feel like I have to add something,
Speaker 1: to just instead sit in my own body and take
Speaker 1: a deep breath and give that person the dignity of
Speaker 1: their process. It's just so beautiful, Debby, this is so
Speaker 1: on time. Literally yesterday I was on the phone with
Speaker 1: someone and they were sharing some things with me, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say for the first time, but I felt
Speaker 1: so bad. I didn't have a lot to say, but
Speaker 1: I intentionally said, let's sit here in this silence. Just
Speaker 1: you being present is enough. M h. We don't have
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, things happen for a reason. Oh
Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay to them right now, they don't
Speaker 1: feel like it's gonna be okay. Yeah, So sitting if
Speaker 1: it was so awkward debby to not have the solution
Speaker 1: or the or in the answer, or the scripture or
Speaker 1: the prayer right up front or the church e is
Speaker 1: M's we just had to sit in silence. Hated that
Speaker 1: it was over the phone versus I felt like it
Speaker 1: would have been better in person to just sit in
Speaker 1: silence with this person, But over the phone it was
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know, that's so powerful because when
Speaker 1: you have supportive silence, not silent treatment, not someone being
Speaker 1: silent because they are minimizing, dismissing or don't want to
Speaker 1: be a part of your process, and the feeling is
Speaker 1: different from healthy silence to nonhealthy silence, but supportive silence
Speaker 1: that you just heard of out It allows someone to
Speaker 1: build their trust in themselves. It allows want to build
Speaker 1: their own emotional intelligence to trust themselves. How often can
Speaker 1: we actually really give solutions to people's individual unique problems,
Speaker 1: you know, truly like a good one. It's not something
Speaker 1: we can think about at the top of our heads
Speaker 1: on command in a thirty minute conversation. And we shouldn't try.
Speaker 1: We should just offer support. We should offer freedom, We
Speaker 1: should offer non judgment for someone as they're walking your process.
Speaker 1: If you have something that is just a divine unique fit,
Speaker 1: you'll know it. But if you're just trying to come
Speaker 1: up with something because of your own awkwardness, because of
Speaker 1: your discomfort with that person's pain, you are doing them
Speaker 1: a disservice, You are causing them harm, and you're jeopardizing
Speaker 1: your relationship with them. You'll say some of the most
Speaker 1: foolish things like foot and mouthfully, did I didn't mean that?
Speaker 1: Pivoting back to boundary, these boundaries versus discarding people, it's
Speaker 1: completely different, and it's a felt difference. If there's anger
Speaker 1: behind your boundary, then that is a completely different mechanism happening,
Speaker 1: which you may need to happen right, because some people
Speaker 1: need angry boundaries. If you're being harmed, if you're being abused,
Speaker 1: if you are being mistreated, there is a harsh line
Speaker 1: of boundary. So sometimes the boundary has to be a
Speaker 1: barbed wire fence for unsafe people. For other people that
Speaker 1: just maybe unconscious or not as emotionally intelligent as you
Speaker 1: or I've had different kinds of traumas and triggers, the
Speaker 1: boundary can be more like a velvet fence. A velvet sword.
Speaker 1: It can be just a line, a visual line in
Speaker 1: the sand. But it doesn't have to be a cinder
Speaker 1: block wall, you know. And I think when we're creating boundaries,
Speaker 1: the boundary is less about the other person and it's
Speaker 1: not individualized to every person. You're creating a set of
Speaker 1: boundaries of what is honorable for your unique life. Then
Speaker 1: that boundary applies to anyone that comes up to you, friends, family, currents,
Speaker 1: x as. Everybody can get the boundary. Because the boundary
Speaker 1: is about the way you care for yourself life as
Speaker 1: a whole, everybody can get it. And so when I
Speaker 1: set a boundary, I think part of the reason that
Speaker 1: allows it to not feel so charged anymore for me
Speaker 1: is that when someone is upset, I can honestly really
Speaker 1: look at them and say, well, this has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with you. This is the boundary for my life.
Speaker 1: This isn't personal about you as a person as a soul,
Speaker 1: but this is what's required from my life, and it
Speaker 1: gets applied to everyone. So good, Devy, absolutely amazing. You
Speaker 1: talk about naming your wounds and how there's strength in it,
Speaker 1: and thank you for that. M How does a person
Speaker 1: name their wounds? It is a long, slow, beautiful process.
Speaker 1: Our healing is a lot of things, but one thing
Speaker 1: it isn't is like a one weekend session of something right.
Speaker 1: It is the continued practice. It is building a system
Speaker 1: of curiosity with the way that you view yourself in
Speaker 1: your life. And so self awareness is what allows us
Speaker 1: to come into our healing. And the more self aware
Speaker 1: we become, the more we're able to look at the
Speaker 1: things that have really hurt us in our lives, the
Speaker 1: easier it is to look at our own behaviors and
Speaker 1: not be in judgment of them. Sometimes it's really hard
Speaker 1: for people to come into self awareness because being honest
Speaker 1: with yourself hurts, you know, it can feel really defeating.
Speaker 1: For some people that have had traumatic backgrounds. It also
Speaker 1: means meeting experiences in their lives that didn't receive their consent,
Speaker 1: that they didn't deserve, and looking at that stuff is hard.
Speaker 1: It does feel easier to pretend things didn't happen. It
Speaker 1: does feel easier to bypass that and to just try
Speaker 1: to instantly push yourself into a positive thought, but it
Speaker 1: is not sustainable. Everyone who has ever tried that knows
Speaker 1: you may be projecting a look of yourself to the world,
Speaker 1: but you're not feeling it in your own heart. You
Speaker 1: deserve more. You deserve more. You deserve real healing, not
Speaker 1: performative healing. For that to happen, we just have to
Speaker 1: really be willing gently to look at the truth of
Speaker 1: our individual lives, the truth of our behavior, the truth
Speaker 1: of our experiences, as soon as we're able to do that.
Speaker 1: And for anyone listening that may have a story that
Speaker 1: you think that makes sense for everyone else, but not me,
Speaker 1: because this happened to me, I hear you. And it's
Speaker 1: about releasing yourself from that cell. It's about saying it
Speaker 1: out loud. It is about saying it and sharing it
Speaker 1: with trusted people who give you this space to talk
Speaker 1: about yourself without trying to cover you with their discomfort
Speaker 1: or their advice or their spiritual bypassing. It's about giving yourself,
Speaker 1: however much time you need to say it out loud,
Speaker 1: but saying it out loud so it can free you
Speaker 1: and you can release it and you can reframe the
Speaker 1: narrative of who you are and how you became that
Speaker 1: m as we hold our hearts and what you might
Speaker 1: want to call your abdomen or your stomach, just take
Speaker 1: this hold is let this disbstable center. In this last
Speaker 1: I closed my eyes as Debbie was talking, and I
Speaker 1: received it as a prayer, a prayer for myself and
Speaker 1: as a prayer for the person listening, and as a
Speaker 1: prayer for Debby as she continues this healing work through
Speaker 1: individuals and for corporations into the world that we continue healing.
Speaker 1: It is deserved. It's not for the rich person, it's
Speaker 1: not for the person that's never been abused. It is
Speaker 1: for you, and it's for me. You are loved. Know
Speaker 1: that I don't care what you're abuse in trauma. I
Speaker 1: don't care what the lie say to you. You are loved.
Speaker 1: We're with you. You're not alone. Release, release, releasem You deserve,
Speaker 1: you deserve, and you deserve. Who do you want to be?
Speaker 1: Who are you being called to become? Grace and ease
Speaker 1: will cover you? Say yes? M hm yes, wow ah
Speaker 1: that was so be the book. Oh my god. Wow.
Speaker 1: This is what checking in the Foundation must be about
Speaker 1: and must continue to do this. And thank you Debby
Speaker 1: for joining us today. Thank you. I really don't know
Speaker 1: if a close is necessary, so I'm just gonna leave
Speaker 1: it here. We're just gonna let it Breathe. Checking In
Speaker 1: with Michelle Williams is a production of I heart Radio
Speaker 1: and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.