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Speaker 1: Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at

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Speaker 1: the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal

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Speaker 1: the common threads that bind them all.

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Speaker 2: So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what

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Speaker 2: we've been trying to get to for almost thirty years.

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Speaker 1: From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.

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Speaker 3: Kamin Clark broke the all time single game assists record.

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Speaker 3: This is crazy for rookies to be doing.

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Speaker 1: Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms

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Speaker 1: and the community we create. And each episode we'll sit

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Speaker 1: down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at

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Speaker 1: the core of it all, how we see one issue

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Speaker 1: shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, everybody, Welcome to Naked Sports.

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Speaker 1: Today's podcast asked, is with one of my faves, Jammel Hill.

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Speaker 1: No surprise there. But what was interesting was that I

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Speaker 1: called her and I said, I want to just do

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Speaker 1: a recap. I want to do a recap of the

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Speaker 1: Final Four, which is more about women's college basketball the

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Speaker 1: season at large. And I also because we haven't had

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to talk about this the way I wanted to.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about steven A versus Lebron. It

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Speaker 1: may be old news, but the way in which I

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Speaker 1: wanted to discuss this with her was just about our

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Speaker 1: obligation as journalist. Oftentimes stephen A said something that I

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Speaker 1: thought was really interesting. Oftentimes journalists don't report everything that

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Speaker 1: they know, and they shouldn't. Sometimes there's just no benefit

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Speaker 1: to doing that. But the case is also true for

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Speaker 1: athletes who know things about journalists. Sometimes you know things

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Speaker 1: about people who cover you that you don't often talk

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Speaker 1: about as well. And to me, in today's age where

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Speaker 1: everybody wants information and everybody loves the mess, it's really

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Speaker 1: difficult not and sometimes not necessarily difficult, but it's really

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Speaker 1: hard not to get caught up in the mess because

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Speaker 1: it's so tempting to go there. It just is. So

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Speaker 1: we get into that conversation. But as we begin to

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Speaker 1: record this podcast, they fired the GM and the head

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Speaker 1: coach of the Denver Nuggets, and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: guess if we can't get along, everybody gotta go. Nobody's safe.

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Speaker 1: This is on the heels of the Memphis coach being fired,

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Speaker 1: Luca being traded, and my thought process was, we live

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Speaker 1: in a world today where nobody is safe. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about your job, my job. As we can see, they're

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Speaker 1: coming for government jobs. I'm watching people who do what

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Speaker 1: I do for a living. If they go to if

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Speaker 1: they get too far into the DEI and the criticism

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Speaker 1: of the current administration, they're losing their jobs. And we

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Speaker 1: live in a world, quite frankly, where I just believe,

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Speaker 1: no matter what your profession is, nobody's safe. We have

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Speaker 1: the great Jamel Hill on the podcast and we begin

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Speaker 1: with a day of firings. Hope you enjoy Jamil, so

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Speaker 1: listen breaking news as we are recording this podcast. I

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Speaker 1: just want to get your first thoughts, first, blush thoughts.

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Speaker 1: The Dinner Nuggets have fired Mike Malone, just a couple

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Speaker 1: of years removed after he brought them a championship. Is

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Speaker 1: that too soon?

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Speaker 2: It feels a little premature, I'll say that especially.

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Speaker 3: I mean the playoffs are about to start.

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Speaker 2: And when it happened, I was actually texting with a

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Speaker 2: friend of mine who covers the league, and as soon

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Speaker 2: as it crossed, as soon as Sham's reported it or

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Speaker 2: as a Shams, I think it might be Shams. As

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Speaker 2: soon as he reported it, I texted my buddy and

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Speaker 2: I was just like, Yo, what's up with this? And

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Speaker 2: at least the little bit of insight he was able

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Speaker 2: to give me was there's always been beat between Mike

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Speaker 2: Malone and the GM Calvin Booth, So maybe it was

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Speaker 2: a situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, parents do this with siblings.

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Speaker 2: It's like they're sick of y'all both fighting, so they're like, okay, both,

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Speaker 2: y'all on punishment. Since y'all can't figure out who's right

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Speaker 2: who's wrong, y'all can't get along, and instead of being

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Speaker 2: on punishment, it led to a permanent punishment that they

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Speaker 2: both got fired. So the GM and the coach both gone,

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Speaker 2: and apparently they had not spoken in some time and

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Speaker 2: their relationship was not very good. It just is the

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Speaker 2: timing of this is just so strange, because the playoffs

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Speaker 2: are about to start, and I realized lately the Nuggets

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Speaker 2: haven't played great, But it just seemed like y'all couldn't

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Speaker 2: wait a second, like maybe they just maybe they feel

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Speaker 2: like they have what they need right now in both

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Speaker 2: the players and the remaining coaches that are on the bench.

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Speaker 1: It had to be to the point where It was

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Speaker 1: catastrophic in the simple sense that they just could not bear.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't wait till the end of the season. They

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Speaker 1: couldn't wait for this playoff push because am I wrong

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Speaker 1: or the Nuggets they are in the playoffs? Are they not?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they're the playoffs and they're a

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Speaker 2: team I think. I mean, you have a cluster of

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Speaker 2: teams that are kind of right around the same level.

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Speaker 3: Some are separating themselves a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I think your Los Angeles Lakers are starting to separate

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Speaker 2: themselves a little bit. Oklahoma City and Houston I think

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Speaker 2: have sort of been separating themselves all season.

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Speaker 3: They have a longer track record with it.

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Speaker 2: But you have a cluster teams that are around the

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Speaker 2: same and I think a lot of people circle Denver

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Speaker 2: as a potentially dangerous team because they have the experience

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Speaker 2: they have. You know, some would say the best player

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Speaker 2: in the world and Yokic, but it just seems strange.

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Speaker 2: But we've seen some of that during this NBA season.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Memphis fired their coach a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: so well, I guess everbody is like Craig got caught

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Speaker 2: steal in boxers, trying to build a clubhouse, so they

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Speaker 2: getting fired on the day off off.

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Speaker 3: You know what.

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Speaker 1: But this leads to a bigger issue that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about, among various things. As we live in

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Speaker 1: this intersection of sports culture and politics, no one and

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Speaker 1: what I have found out, and this goes across our board,

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Speaker 1: all industries, but more specifically in the NBA sports, no

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Speaker 1: one is safe. Once Luca was traded, I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: ain't nobody safe?

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Speaker 3: We safe? We safe?

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Speaker 1: We ain't safe because it just didn't make sense to me.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like right now, what we're seeing and

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Speaker 1: I could be taking two different instances, maybe three different instances,

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Speaker 1: and they're timing uh and making more out of it.

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Speaker 1: But it feels like to me that nothing is guaranteed

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Speaker 1: unless maybe your name is Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James. Right,

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Speaker 1: there are very few people who have played in this

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Speaker 1: league where I felt they were like, there's just no

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Speaker 1: way that could happen to me. Maybe she killed you.

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Speaker 2: But even then, listen, what it uh? What's the old song?

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Speaker 2: These holes ain't loyal?

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Speaker 3: I mean, like it's just so loyal like old sauce.

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Speaker 3: This is sports.

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Speaker 2: Uh, this is a transactional business by nature is performance based,

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Speaker 2: and that in that performance doesn't always have to be

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Speaker 2: Your performance could actually be fine, but they have There's

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Speaker 2: always other factors that contribute to some of these, you know,

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Speaker 2: moves that are being made with Luca. I feel like

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Speaker 2: we still don't know the full story. I mean, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of conspiracy theories that have floated around about

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Speaker 2: you know, ownership of wanting to build a new arena

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Speaker 2: with a casino, facing some political blockades there in Dallas,

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Speaker 2: and that was why they did it, Because this is

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Speaker 2: really about them trying to mastermind their way to Las

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Speaker 2: Vegas that we all know they want an NBA team,

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Speaker 2: Or is it about the fact that they felt giving

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Speaker 2: Luca the kind of money he's going to command was

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Speaker 2: a mistake because he is not the most conditioned athlete

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Speaker 2: to athlete at times, the discipline they're worried about, you know.

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Speaker 3: Just sort of other factors.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know that we'll ever get to

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Speaker 2: the bottom of that story. But yes, in sports, especially

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Speaker 2: as we see more and more money being in invested,

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Speaker 2: the salaries are rising, They're only going to get higher.

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Speaker 2: I think that's going to make people not as patient

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Speaker 2: and the demand of what that player or coach is

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Speaker 2: supposed to do is only going to go up. So

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Speaker 2: a lot of ownership groups are thinking a lot of

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Speaker 2: people in charge and decision makers there. I think their

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Speaker 2: thought process is not just what have you done for

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Speaker 2: me lately? I think it is like, if we don't

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Speaker 2: see an immediate ROI return on our investment you have here,

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Speaker 2: and however they're able to, you know, sort of put

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Speaker 2: what that investment is in perspective.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's the nature of the game now.

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Speaker 1: And that's for everything. Though. I just feel like the world,

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Speaker 1: the businesses are changing right in front of our eyes.

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Speaker 1: Your position, where you thought was what your job was,

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Speaker 1: is something totally different. I have never seen more of

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Speaker 1: a hostage situation than Jason Kidds sitting with the GM

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Speaker 1: of the Dallas Mavericks pretending like he was all in

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Speaker 1: on this deal. I was just like, this is not happening.

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Speaker 1: Was it the G or the president? What's O boy's name? Uh?

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Speaker 3: Nico who I know?

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Speaker 2: And Nico's a good dude, man. I feel so bad

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Speaker 2: for him because he is just public enemy number one

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Speaker 2: in Dallas right now.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of ain safe, of course, he is right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah he is.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure he was well aware that this is

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Speaker 2: part of what comes with that job, is that you're

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Speaker 2: gonna sometimes make unpopular decisions. Didn't expect him to make

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Speaker 2: one this deeply unpopular, but hey, it is what it is.

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Speaker 2: And now the Dallas fans are going to have to

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Speaker 2: suffer through seeing the Lakers as they kind of feel

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Speaker 2: like they're rounding in the form.

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Speaker 3: And if the.

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Speaker 2: Lakers, if they make any kind of deep run in

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Speaker 2: the playoffs, man, those Mavericks fans are going to.

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Speaker 3: Be beyond them.

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Speaker 2: They're already mad, right, they beyond They already upset it.

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Speaker 3: Then they got hit with the fact that I believe

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Speaker 3: ticket prices are going up next year. Man, they had

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Speaker 3: his fish creasing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that just isn't changing.

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Speaker 3: Time to be a Mavericks fan.

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Speaker 1: I cannot wait for the thirty for thirty. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait for the real story to come out. I you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I wanted you on here

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Speaker 1: is because I I wanted to just talk about what

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Speaker 1: had been going on in our universe. And you and

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Speaker 1: I both worked with a gentleman by the name of

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Speaker 1: Stephen A. Smith, and I hosted a show. Oh god,

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Speaker 1: I know where this is going. Where is this going?

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Speaker 1: Where we go?

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Speaker 3: Where we want to ask me about this presidency?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 3: Are you about to? Okay, go ahead, Carrie, ask your question.

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Speaker 1: Do you not want me to ask you a question?

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Speaker 3: Ask me?

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't. I'm scared I will all the smoke.

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Speaker 2: You know, go ahead, ask me, ask me.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's just take it a few a few

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Speaker 1: minutes back, a couple of weeks ago, well even a

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Speaker 1: few weeks ago. Steven A was getting into it with

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Speaker 1: this player because his name is Lebron James. Have you

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Speaker 1: heard of him?

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Speaker 3: I have, I'm familiar.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So Lebron James went up to steven A at

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Speaker 1: a game and basically say, I keep my son's name

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Speaker 1: out of your mouth, and Lebron walked away. What Lebron

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Speaker 1: did was very intentional because he did it while stephen

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Speaker 1: A was courtsied. On the day that his one hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollar deal was signed and delivered and made known

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Speaker 1: to the public. Stephen A was sitting next to the

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Speaker 1: president of wm E William Morris Endeavor agency. His agency

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Speaker 1: and some other well known notables were within earshot of

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Speaker 1: said don't keep my son's name out of your mouth,

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Speaker 1: back and forth. Steven A goes on TV, talks about

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Speaker 1: it the next day, says he doesn't want to address it.

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Speaker 1: We all know that's not true, but since it was

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Speaker 1: caught on camera, he thought he'd just go ahead and

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Speaker 1: let us in on it, you know. And it was

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Speaker 1: this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, somehow we got

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Speaker 1: into the conversation of whether or not Lebron James attended

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Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant's funeral, and you and I talked about that offline,

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Speaker 1: but for me, that got into some weird territory of disrespectful,

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable and why is this even relevant right now? How'd

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Speaker 1: you feel about I don't care about the back and

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Speaker 1: forth whether he was wrong or right. Stephen A's job

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Speaker 1: is to criticize, is to critique, is to analyze. He

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Speaker 1: gets paid to talk about people who play basketball, and

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Speaker 1: if Lebron James' son, Bronnie, wasn't playing, we also be it.

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Speaker 1: But then it went into whether or not Lebron was

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Speaker 1: a good father. But then it escalated into something I

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Speaker 1: think that both of these men are probably disappointed in themselves.

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Speaker 1: If you certainly, you know, if you take a look back,

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Speaker 1: I think they're probably both very disappointed in how they

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Speaker 1: handle this, you think, because.

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Speaker 3: I don't get that impression.

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Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, like, I think they're perfectly fine

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Speaker 2: with how they handle it.

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Speaker 3: Are you serious? I do, Like I don't. I don't

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Speaker 3: think they have any regrets.

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Speaker 2: I mean, certainly Lebron does it because as far as

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Speaker 2: he's concerned, he was just standing up.

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Speaker 3: For his him and his ian mines Marc. He's concerned. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's that's how he sees That's how he saw.

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Speaker 2: That, and he's he's He repeated that when he went

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Speaker 2: on the Pat McAfee show.

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Speaker 3: What I would say is.

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Speaker 2: I think once stephen A, I got uncomfortable, you know,

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Speaker 2: and and I this, and I approached this as a

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Speaker 2: career journalist, been in the game decades now, I'm old

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Speaker 2: and I just yeah, right, I was like, I'm old, same, same,

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Speaker 2: And I realize when you're not in the thick of it,

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Speaker 2: you probably have the benefit of being able to assess

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Speaker 2: it a little less emotionally because it's not my name

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Speaker 2: out there.

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Speaker 3: I'm not the one being confronted by NBA player.

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Speaker 2: So and I'm not going to pretend like I don't

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Speaker 2: have petty levers because there's some people that roll up

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Speaker 2: on me and I it might be about something, right,

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Speaker 2: So I understand that we all don't get the benefit

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Speaker 2: of reacting with our best, you know, sort of with

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Speaker 2: our best mature responses. I get that, But when he

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Speaker 2: brought up the pard, I was like, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I could go there, and I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it was befitting of him to do that, because one,

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Speaker 2: you're talking about somebody who's no longer here. Two you're

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Speaker 2: also then we're getting into questions of character because him

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Speaker 2: calling him out about the funeral then is saying that

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Speaker 2: he wasn't there with d Wade's Hall of Fame announcement.

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Speaker 2: Let's be real, what that really was You basically saying

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Speaker 2: Lebron is.

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Speaker 3: A phony and a shitty friend. That's what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: That's what you're telling people, right, So then we get

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Speaker 2: into a whole nother territory where you're coming at somebody

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Speaker 2: over how they have presented themselves and how they deal

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Speaker 2: with their personal relationships. And I would be wildly uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: going there. And I thought it was not a good

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Speaker 2: moment for Steven Asmith, like, I gotta be honest, I

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Speaker 2: didn't really And once he brought that up, then suddenly

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Speaker 2: the focus becomes, well did he go to the funeral?

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Speaker 2: And then we have this whole investigative Twitter detectives out

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Speaker 2: like everybody like did he?

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Speaker 3: People pulling footage?

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Speaker 2: You know, I saw this one piece of footage where

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Speaker 2: when Diana Tarassi when she.

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Speaker 3: Was Pablo finds it. Pablo, Yes, our former colleague Pablo

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Speaker 3: Torri went.

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Speaker 2: He went all dateline on it, okay, And I'm like, man, like,

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Speaker 2: how did we kind of get here? And I guess

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Speaker 2: you know, I live in La, you're from La.

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Speaker 3: You know this the levels of grief people still feel about.

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Speaker 2: Kobe not being here. I was like, man, I just

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Speaker 2: I just would not have been comfortable going there. So

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Speaker 2: that everybody's different. I'm not here to judge anybody's professional ethics,

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Speaker 2: but I personally was not comfortable watching this all unfold.

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Speaker 1: I was not only was I uncomfortable when Pablo posted that,

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Speaker 1: I you know, and it's not for me to criticize

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Speaker 1: other colleagues. I just don't do it. I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't think there's any any real gain and I've done

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Speaker 1: it several times, maybe three times in the past, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, maybe I should have thought twice about

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Speaker 1: what I said, but I immediately posted on that. I said, enough,

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Speaker 1: this man is dead. Let him rest in peace. This

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Speaker 1: has gone beyond what's going on with Steven aans And

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Speaker 1: and Lebron. You're talking about a grieving wife widow. You're

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Speaker 1: talking about kids who are very well aware of what's

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Speaker 1: being said about their father and and quite frankly, this

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with where we started. The argument

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Speaker 1: has been lost. We've jumped the shark, as they say, like,

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Speaker 1: this is what is this we're talking about now? And

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Speaker 1: I know you're saying it's alluding to his character, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think and I said this on my show,

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Speaker 1: I don't think any one of them should play thee

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Speaker 1: I know who you are a game, I know what

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Speaker 1: you I know who people, I know what people think

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Speaker 1: about you game. Nobody is without some books, and no

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Speaker 1: one is perfect. So I don't want to know about

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Speaker 1: their personal lives. I don't want to know about their

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Speaker 1: character off camera or off court that should not be

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Speaker 1: made public knowledge. There is something about the level of

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Speaker 1: discretion that I think we all need to keep to

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Speaker 1: maintain some maintain some level of professionalism. And I was

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Speaker 1: getting uncomfortable. I was like, this is getting into territory

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Speaker 1: that might end up in a space where we know

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Speaker 1: too much about these men that we don't even need

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Speaker 1: to know about them. Does that make sense? And I

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Speaker 1: know that's so high brow because people live.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean, but I'm not trying to go back.

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of with you because look, Harry, I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you and I wanted to tell it, we could

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Speaker 2: tell it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if we wanted to tell it, we

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Speaker 3: could tell it.

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Speaker 1: Right. We just crossed my legs.

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Speaker 3: Now you get nervous. I'm like, we all have.

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Speaker 1: Something to say about everyone in this business, and there's

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Speaker 1: just no need. There's just no need.

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Speaker 2: And it is it because I don't think any of

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Speaker 2: us would feel comfortable if that spotlight came in our direction, correct, right,

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Speaker 2: the real the one that's showing all the skeletal bones.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the skeletal bones go ahead, doctor hill Wallace.

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Speaker 3: No, we would not want that spotlight. And so.

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Speaker 2: There was something that Stephen A said in one of

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Speaker 2: his many responses, and that is true. Is that a

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Speaker 2: lot of times us as journalists. We the things we

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Speaker 2: don't report, the things we don't say. It's significant because

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of stuff that we could say that

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Speaker 2: we do not say. And I think most of us

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Speaker 2: are mature enough to not say those things because we

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Speaker 2: know we're not perfect, and we know that a lot

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Speaker 2: of times while our professional careers, we may feel like, okay,

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Speaker 2: it would it would stand up to some scrutiny, but

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Speaker 2: we done all made some mistakes, all is, don't nobody

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Speaker 2: else know about?

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Speaker 1: Yes, for sure?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: And so because of that, yes, it is got to

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Speaker 2: be some honor among thieves. There is there got to

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Speaker 2: be some honor among thieves. It's gotta be we gotta

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Speaker 2: we gotta uphold certain tenets of his game.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: And we can't be out here just wildly snitching on

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Speaker 2: focks like.

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Speaker 3: Hey, hey man, like you know that ain't cool.

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Speaker 1: We can't be out here wildly snitching on folks because

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Speaker 1: it's not cool, because I don't want nobody to snitch

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Speaker 1: on me, like you know what I mean, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: all set like not that anything. And and and by

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Speaker 1: the way, there are levels, right, I'm sure the level

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Speaker 1: of things that we're talking about don't match other levels

380
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Speaker 1: of what people have to hide, But there's just no

381
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Speaker 1: point and it was just so disrespectful on so many

382
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Speaker 1: levels to my favorite player of all time. And this

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00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 1: is an emotional take. Kobe would if he were here

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Speaker 1: and anybody said anything of that nature, if he's watching

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Speaker 1: from heaven or wherever he may be, wherever people think

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Speaker 1: he may be, who knows, whatever, My point being is

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00:19:58,240 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: that he would be like, is this what we're doing?

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Speaker 1: Is is this the level that we've devolved to that

389
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 1: you all are out here there? And by the way,

390
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,959
Speaker 1: he's had some you know, may he recipes, he had

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Speaker 1: some moments where I'm sure he wished he could take

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Speaker 1: things back, things that he had said. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, we just don't need to get

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Speaker 1: into that game. And then now we find ourselves. Now

395
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: we find ourselves in this moment where and I think

396
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,679
Speaker 1: maybe did the NBA need that storyline because there was

397
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Speaker 1: nothing happening? People are so interested now and who said

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Speaker 1: because let me tell you, it felt boring. It felt

399
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: like there was nothing to talk about. Now. I got

400
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: people like, well, what's going on with you know what

401
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: I mean? People not interested all of a sudden and

402
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 1: not wild it's wild to me.

403
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,160
Speaker 3: So this is a discussion that I had on YouTube.

404
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 3: Is that?

405
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 2: And I see this a lot when it comes to

406
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Speaker 2: wider discussion about what we consume.

407
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 3: As a public.

408
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 2: Everybody out here likes to act like or pretend like

409
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Speaker 2: they all watching PBS all the time.

410
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 3: We all out here.

411
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 2: Watching documentaries and only eyebrow entertainment. It's like people, y'all

412
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 2: live for the mess and I wish y'all stop lying

413
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 2: and saying we just want to hear about basketball. If

414
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 2: you wanted to just hear about basketball.

415
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Speaker 3: Steven A. Smith wouldn't exist.

416
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 2: And it's like, not on this status level. And I

417
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 2: find this especially true among male sports fans who act

418
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 2: like Dane as messy as everybody else. I'm like, y'all

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00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: be messy. Okay, let's see you know. I quickly brought

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00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: up as this was going back and forth, that conversation

421
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 2: we were having about the w NBA when it came

422
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: to Caitlin Clark and pettiness, all these male sports broadcasting

423
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 2: y'all women solf, petty, blah blah blah.

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Speaker 3: I rest my case. That's all I got to say.

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Speaker 3: You're on her as you're on her.

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Speaker 1: She rests her case. You're on her. You ain't ever

427
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Speaker 1: lie friend.

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00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 2: Exhibit abcd E mg h ijk elemental.

429
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 1: Right there, I say, look, this is gonna be wildly

430
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: unpoppy there. Men are the messiest. They love the mess.

431
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: They stay in the mess. You and I on some

432
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: private group text talked about the biggest gossips. We know

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00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 1: it's a.

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Speaker 3: Man, ain't it.

435
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 2: It's like, what what?

436
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 3: What?

437
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 1: What are we doing here? We're gonna take a quick

438
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be

439
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: right back in just a few moments. You bring up

440
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark, which brings me to my next topic, which

441
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: is great. It's almost as if we practice this. I

442
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: had today released on my podcast. I I this this

443
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: podcast that I most recently dropped. I just wanted to

444
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: give a little love, uh to Paige Becker's and we

445
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 1: have talked about page you know, on camera, off camera,

446
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: her skill set, the season that she was able to

447
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: have this year, her re entry, if you will, back

448
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: into the stratosphere of being one of the greatest players

449
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: in college in college ball after she was injured, because

450
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: it took some time for her to come back. So

451
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: there are two things that I'm thinking that are great here. One.

452
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: I get encouraged when I think about how I've watched

453
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: her story take shape and how it ultimately ended in

454
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: terms of her college career winning a championship, because I

455
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: was really really sad for Juju. It really bummed me out.

456
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: I was really disheartened at the fact that she had

457
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: tour a cl and I'm like, good grief, how long

458
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: is that going to take? Two seasons? But we've seen,

459
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: We've seen and living proof someone who was badly injured

460
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: came back, found their way, won a championship, and did

461
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: great things for college ball women's sports in general. I

462
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: hope the same is true for Juju because we saw

463
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 1: it with Pagebeckers. But I talked about just her background.

464
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people knew who she

465
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: was or how she was raised, and just let's just

466
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: take a moment to talk about. To me, what I

467
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: see is someone who did not receive the same amount

468
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: of tension as a Caitlyn Clark did. And now there

469
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: are these conversations about the reason why she didn't receive

470
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: she being Pagebeckers didn't receive the same amount of tension

471
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: that Caitlyn Clark did. Was one, Kaitlyn Clark is a

472
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: better player. That's the first thing that people are saying.

473
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: And then the second thing is there's a group of

474
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: people who were saying because her bonus mom, her stepmom,

475
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,239
Speaker 1: whatever you would like to call it, is black. And

476
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: she was very well aware or very familiar with the

477
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: black community and always spoke up for black women, that

478
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: the media decided to sideline her. What say you, Jamal?

479
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: First of all, we refer to her in our community

480
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 2: as Deaconesschers.

481
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 3: Okay, because Page be preaching she do to be governed

482
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 3: with that guy. She tell you where you hello?

483
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: Because she was like, over here we serve. Our strength

484
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: is in the Lord. I was like, go ahead, over here,

485
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: our strengthens.

486
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: Page is like Marvin saff You know what I'm saying.

487
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: She coming, She is coming with it all right?

488
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: Is she closing the doors? Is she closing the doors

489
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: of the church? Want to get closed?

490
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 3: So I think Page will let you free.

491
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 2: But yes, Paige, w I need to buy my old

492
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: my old school.

493
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: Christians know about that one.

494
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: But but no, I do think some of it is

495
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: the fact that you know Paige as a freshman one

496
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: National Player of the Year, she was certainly on a

497
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: certain trajectory in terms of stardom in the league and

498
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: or in college ball rather and she you know, it

499
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: was derailed by injuries, as you pointed out, but I think,

500
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 2: you know, Kaitlyn clark playing styles matter to people. And

501
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 2: when you think about the game that today's fan is

502
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: accustomed to seeing, they are used to seeing a Steph

503
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: Curry esque game from guards, you know, launching the long shots.

504
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 2: You know, this high level of excitement that I think

505
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: Kitlyn Clark brought. Sports is about performance, but it is

506
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: also about narratives. I think that there was an underdog

507
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 2: element to Kitlyn Clark, even though she was a five

508
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: star recruit. I mean like she was somebody that a

509
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: lot of schools wanted, Okay, and she chose to go

510
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 2: to Iowa, and I think for a lot of people

511
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: that mattered the fact that Iowa, though they do have

512
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 2: a women's basketball legacy, it's not the traditional one that

513
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 2: we're accustomed to hearing about.

514
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 3: So she's paid for a school that.

515
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 2: Is not regularly regularly on the women's college basketball map.

516
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 3: People look at Yukon as they should. It's true blue blood.

517
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: They just won a twelfth championship. So there's this expectation

518
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 2: that anybody there is great. So to some degree, the

519
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: greatness of when you're playing for Yukon is frankly probably

520
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 2: looked at as water is wet. I don't think it's

521
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 2: as I don't think it's it's celebrated, but not in

522
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: not like a novelty. Caitlin Clark has been treated like

523
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 2: a novelty, and so she has a different narrative than

524
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 2: Paige Beckers. Now is there something to this fact that

525
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 2: Paige Becker's very early when she received an sp she

526
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: made that a tribute to black women and about how

527
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: she has learned from them about how they deserve more attention.

528
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: She understood the roots of the game, and there we

529
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: would be lying to ourselves if we said, in our

530
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: very racialized society that these alliances don't impact how.

531
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 3: People see people.

532
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: And I think you can tell in the way Page

533
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 2: plays the game, in her demeanor, the fact that, as

534
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: you pointed out, she has a black step mother, black

535
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: step brothers, that that in itself for some people, not

536
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: saying everybody, because people get all crazy and think I'm

537
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: saying this and totality is that for some people.

538
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 3: That was.

539
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to say disqualifying, but they were like, eh,

540
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, I feel about that, right, And so

541
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: I do think there's some of that that is there,

542
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: But I also believe that this is mostly about different

543
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: playing styles and people have tried to sort of compare

544
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: them and I was like, they're just even though they

545
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: both are guards, they're just they're very different in terms

546
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: of what their physical gifts are, what their basketball gifts

547
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: actually are, and so so yeah, I mean, I think

548
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: it was a lot of it was a mixture of

549
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: those elements.

550
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: But the overwhelming, the overwhelming thought from if I can,

551
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: if I can, I don't know suggest what you're saying

552
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: is that Caitlin has a much more electric playing style

553
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: that makes people want to that makes her more mainstream friendly.

554
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, And I think that's correct. I

555
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: think it does make her more mainstream friendly. And this

556
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: is not and this is not a criticism.

557
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 3: Of Caitlyn Clark.

558
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: She plays how she plays, and I think with her

559
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: representing Iowa, that's another big part.

560
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: This is Middle.

561
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: America and there is a level of fixation on who

562
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: Middical America is. There's a level of sort of quaintness

563
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: and you know that's real America, that sort of thing,

564
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: that kind of engine that is behind Caitlyn Clark in

565
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: a very different way. But I think to some degree

566
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: we said this about Juju as well. You know, prior

567
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: to her injury, I mean, the scoring pace that she

568
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: was on is that she would be threatening that all

569
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: time scoring record. I mean, she broke Kaitlyn color Clark's

570
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: freshman scoring record already, and so this was just her

571
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: second season and she was THEMN near average thirty a game.

572
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if she would have gotten there, but

573
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: she would have come well within reach to the point

574
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: where it might have been a real pursuit. And a

575
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: lot of us were wondering, like, well, when Juju gets close,

576
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: if she's with an earshot, if it looks like she

577
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: might break this record, will there be the same level

578
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: of media attention?

579
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 3: And there won't be.

580
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: And I knew that there wouldn't be, even though Juju

581
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: is a star and you already know how La treats,

582
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 2: you know, her brilliance is like she got celebrities at

583
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 2: her game all the time, right, Like this is this

584
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: is not new, This is not a new space for

585
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: Juju to be in. But I do think what does

586
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: often happen? And people can debate me. I'm sure they will.

587
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure they'll call me all the usual names they

588
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: call me.

589
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: But the kind important.

590
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: I gotta tell myself this you is implant is.

591
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: But the reality is that when it comes to sports,

592
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: and especially when it comes to back basketball, I think

593
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: that there is sometimes a well, a good black player

594
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: is supposed to play like that, like you know. What

595
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: I'm saying is that the part of the net we.

596
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: Have a novelty element in us.

597
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: And that's as I say, all players like of course

598
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: everybody loves Cheryl Miller.

599
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: I could go through maya more people appreciate it.

600
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: That I'm not saying that they didn't, But I do

601
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: think that there are different expectations for great black players,

602
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: and there are when we have someone white who is

603
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: also great.

604
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 3: There's a different kind of fixation with white players.

605
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: Because even though in women's college basketball, I don't think

606
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: black players make up the majority of women's college basketball.

607
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: They don't.

608
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: I think that's it's just under yeah, there's just under

609
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: fifty percent. So even though we have seen white girls

610
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: dominate before and they have received the justified attention, there

611
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,239
Speaker 2: is a little extra put on it because there is

612
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: this idea that this is a space where black athletes dominate.

613
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: So if a white girl is able to dominate in

614
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: this space, that is special, that is different. And I

615
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: think the public has to be honest about sometimes how

616
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: they see and kind of play into these racial narratives,

617
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: you know, So we just have to be honest about it.

618
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do believe, and I don't think it's necessarily

619
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: because she she being Pagebeckers. Okay, So what I want

620
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: to just make sure I'm digesting what you're saying. Where

621
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: Kaitlyn's entire origin story is very Middle America, and in

622
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: it was very mainstream in terms of how they can

623
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: get on board the way she plays the game, where

624
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: she comes from her being a Catholic, a heterosexual, to

625
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: our knowledge, white woman out here living her life doing

626
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: the things that she wants to do playing basketball. Not

627
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: that that has never happened before, but it was the

628
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: way in which she was playing basketball. But I also

629
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: believe that the Angel Reson narrative also helped, not that

630
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: it propelled to.

631
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: The next I didn't mean to dismiss that part, and

632
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: you're correct, and I it wasn't She got a rival,

633
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: and I would say, And it was funny because, like

634
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: I recently had the same conversation prior to her injury

635
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: about Juju about how like Juju really needs a rival, right.

636
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: And people have such back on that. Like I was

637
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: on a just side note, I did the podcast with

638
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: Tarika and Cheryl Swoops, the Great Cheryl Swoops, and they

639
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: were like, no, I don't think so. They they disagreed,

640
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think Juju needs a rival

641
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: to make the story interesting. And her rival isn't Paige Becker's,

642
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: but she needed a rival, or she needs one. I think, yeah.

643
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: I mean, look, we saw this.

644
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: Maybe it didn't blast off to the degree obviously it

645
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: didn't of Angel Reese, but when Paige and Caitlin met

646
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: each other last year in the NCAA tournament that did

647
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: record numbers too. A lot of it is because people

648
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: are like, ooh, I mean you know again, be honest,

649
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, this was the original white girl

650
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: four years ago.

651
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: Here's the new white girl. We got.

652
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: We got us ourselves a battle, right, And so I

653
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: think these narratives do sell, you know, games, like part

654
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: of the reason why even though we knew the championship

655
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: game between South Carolina and Yukon wasn't gonna be what

656
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: it was last year. But it's a great number of

657
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: absent of Caitlin Clark because you have the narrative of

658
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: Dawn Stay representing sort of the new Yukon if you will,

659
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: you know, with the number of championships she's won and

660
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: Yukon trying to get back. Like people were loving that

661
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: narrative right or even last year when it was Caitlin

662
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: Clark against an undefeated South Carolina team like that was

663
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 2: something juicy. Like people dig into those kind of narratives,

664
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: So you need they'd like to see athletes and teams

665
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: that people love. They love to see them go against

666
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: some level of inertia. They love this, like we need

667
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: to see the athlete get to the mountaintop and they

668
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: gotta climb up hill and they gotta walk through snow

669
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: and they got to get it out the mud and

670
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: they gotta finally get there.

671
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: And it makes us appreciate their journeys so much more.

672
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, we kind of need to see that. So

673
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 2: to your point, Caitlin Clark was putting up Hella numbers

674
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: freshman year, Hella numbers sophomore year, but the point of

675
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: explosion was Angel Reeves taught her, and then then suddenly

676
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: every single game needs two play now leading into the

677
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 2: W A B A became prime time appointment doing.

678
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: And to your point, you believe if Juju when she

679
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: comes back, had had a rival that met her at

680
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: that same level, that would provide a much more explosive

681
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: storyline around who Juju is and whomever that ex player

682
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: would be.

683
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: Yes, I do, and it helps if it's some spice

684
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: to it, you know, I'm saying it helps, Like if

685
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: it's because she's like a little elbow, yeah, it helps.

686
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: Juju's very very mid like you don't see she displays

687
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: the game. It's that one thing I do what I

688
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: what I see in her. I also saw in Caitlin

689
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: Clark as a college player, was like I trash talk,

690
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: but I really am here just the ball, Like I'm

691
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 1: just here to play that other stuff I'm not really

692
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: consumed with. But I'm gonna let you know I'm better

693
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: than you. Like when we went to the UCLA and

694
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: USC game that I got us court side tickets to

695
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: that you totally decided where you want to just speak

696
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: to everybody on the USC side, even though U c

697
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: l A had provided youre UCLA had provided you with

698
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: said tickets through wah and you walking up there talking

699
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: to USC people. I wouldn't let y'all know. I had

700
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: to pull.

701
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 3: I had to, I had to pull my girls.

702
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: I was like, you, really, you've been real disrespectful. You

703
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: treat your lady wrong. Right now. If we was in

704
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: a relationship, Jamil, it'd be over you lucky, you married broke.

705
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: I would have broke up with you. You lucky because

706
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: you you did your girl dirty.

707
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: But Friday night I got to fight the I love to.

708
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: You every night. But what I what I realized was

709
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: that when we were clearly, as in UCLA, going to

710
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: lose the game, juju let us know. She let all

711
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: the fans know as we were yelling and screams shell,

712
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to this side right here, and let

713
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: y'all know y'all lost ball this way. She was like

714
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: ball this way. I was like, gotcha, I hear you.

715
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: We lost. And I love that because it was such

716
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: a quiet confidence that I also think Caitlin plays with. However, However,

717
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: I will say this, you talk about that inertia, what

718
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: Paige Becker's in Yukon did was very special, But did

719
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: you notice the way those girls was playing? And I

720
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 1: am old enough to remember when Gino Arima, the great

721
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: Gino Arima, who now has twelve championships, jumped on a

722
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: microphone after don Staley and Crewe beat down his team

723
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: and said, I don't know what that was. That wasn't basketball,

724
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: referring to the fact that Don Staley and her players

725
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: played too tough, too aggressive. It was some sort of

726
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: basketball that this legend in Gino Arima was unfamiliar with,

727
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: and he couldn't understand what the game was doing. Fast

728
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: forward to twenty twenty four in Tampa. I watched them

729
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,959
Speaker 1: girls get after it. His team, led by his pagebackers.

730
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: Those girls was playing the most aggressive ball that I

731
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: have ever seen Yukon play within the last few years,

732
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: and it won them that chip. And it's so interesting

733
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: how he complained about don Staley and Crewe and the

734
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: way her team played, but he definitely took a page

735
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: out of her book to learn how to win.

736
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again, this is part of that mountaintop,

737
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: that climb uphill that we see. I mean, it's kind

738
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: of weird to look at Yukon and any kind of

739
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 2: underdog role given what their history is. But they came

740
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: out there and played like they had something to lose.

741
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: I mean, not that they have something to lose, but

742
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: they something to prove. Excuse me, they came out there

743
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: like they had something to prove. They wanted to prove

744
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 2: we could be physical, we could be tough, and they

745
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 2: were playing with an edge like we ain't going home

746
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 2: without this championship period.

747
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 3: And you could tell that from the start of the game.

748
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: And I've never seen a Don Staley coach team or

749
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: it's been a long time I'll say long team say never.

750
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: It's been a very long time since I've seen a

751
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: Don Staley team kind of shook.

752
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 3: They were shook, they were.

753
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: Discombobulated, they didn't know, they had no answer for anything.

754
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 3: You kind did asy fudd.

755
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 2: She came out there with bad intentions. Like the whole game,

756
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, this one is not.

757
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 3: Playing you know what I'm saying. She spent so.

758
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean she she was incredible, and as was

759
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 2: Sarah Strong.

760
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: Obviously who Alison Feaster, that's her daughter, which I had

761
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: no idea this just standing, Oh mom, is Alison Feaster

762
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: with the Celtics. Did you know that? No, you didn't

763
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: see that post.

764
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: She was like, I missed it.

765
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: I was like, you raised a special one. She is special,

766
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: but going so, let me let.

767
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 3: Me tell you.

768
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: I remember Alisond feastera in college when she I remember

769
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: her when she played in college and her team she

770
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 2: played for Harvard. I believe right, and she I believe

771
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: it's I'm pretty sure it's still true. The only time

772
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: in the men's and women's tournament was team be to one.

773
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: They'd be number one Stanford and Stanford had some injuries.

774
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: That was you know, they were a little depleted for sure,

775
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 2: but like nobody thought that they were gonna beat Stanford.

776
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 1: And by the way, she still has a post successful career.

777
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: They show pictures of her when she was playing in

778
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: the league and she was playing college ball with her daughter,

779
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, her daughter who we are now watching.

780
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: And then at the end of the championship game when

781
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: they went to Sarah Seawan, they have some comments. She

782
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: was just like and I just you know, we did

783
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: what we had to do. I was like, oh, she

784
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: about her business. I'm a woman. A few words, I'm

785
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: not about to be up here, and just like I

786
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: just want to play. She's just a freshman. It was

787
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: so it was special. It's just it's a very special

788
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: time in women's sports, and I hope everyone can connect

789
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: the dots and see the storylines and understand where we

790
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: were and where we are and what is to come.

791
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: I think that I was. I was genuinely disappointed and

792
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 1: said my team did not win, but I was glad

793
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: that they got the breaks beat off of them by

794
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: the team that ultimately became the champion. So maybe maybe

795
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: you saw them do it to somebody else. Now, I

796
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, so that's just what they came to do.

797
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. And they didn't cut They didn't cut

798
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: down the nets during the Elite Eight because they said

799
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: that's not what they came to celebrate. And they waited.

800
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: I remember that was one big thing. They were like,

801
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: you didn't cut down the nets like everybody else did

802
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: when you made it to the final four. They were like,

803
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: this is not the one or waiting for the one,

804
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: and they did have something to prove, and I felt

805
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: like it was a very special storyline for page. Becker's

806
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: shout out to UCLA. Though We're gonna take a quick

807
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be

808
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: right back in just a few moments. UCLA, let's talk

809
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: about them for a minute. Corey Corey Close is the coach.

810
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: Say it three times fast. She's been at that program.

811
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: She's taken that program to the final four or four times.

812
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: She's probably the longest tenured coach that they've had. And

813
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: I just want to say, playing in Westwood under the

814
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 1: shadow of John Wooden, it's not easy to do one,

815
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: even if you are at head of the men's program,

816
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: right but being head of the women's program, you have

817
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: always been the afterthought the other. And for her to

818
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: really figure it out, because I think she had a

819
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: lot of pressure on her this year to be popular,

820
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: to do more social media, to do all the things

821
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: that now don't really include coaching, which is why this

822
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: is a young man and young women's game. Coaches are

823
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: jumping out of this league because are out of college ball,

824
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: because it's so difficult to coach. You are recruiting your

825
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: players consistently while they're playing on the roster. You know,

826
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: right now, we've seen it a few teams with it.

827
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: No one's coming back an entire roster. Notre Dame. Maybe

828
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: they have two returning players at Notre Dame women's basketball

829
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: players are leaving and they're going to other places because

830
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: they want more money, they want more attention, they want

831
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: more social media, right, and it's just hard to keep

832
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: the main thing the main thing. So I take a

833
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: few minutes out to say to coach Close, who's figuring

834
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: it out? Because she's an old school coach, right, she's

835
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: her job is changing right before her eyes, much like

836
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: our job is changing right before our eyes, and we're

837
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: learning to figure it out in real time. So love

838
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: to her, Love to my bruins. Tough, tough loss. I

839
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 1: was very disappointed, but I thank you Jamal for being

840
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: some sort of support with your trade.

841
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 3: Did support you all?

842
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: Remember that said you went over there to hug you

843
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: ju or whatever.

844
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, the the USC, they looked out when State came

845
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: to play and we got the breaks beat off us

846
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 2: and no one. It was actually somewhat of a close game,

847
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 2: but a little bit of a close game. But uh no, listen,

848
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 2: I UCLA has a lot to be proud of this season,

849
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 2: and now this is part of their journey because I

850
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: I think you guys got everybody coming back just about yeah,

851
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: you get just you got just about everybody coming back.

852
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: They're not gonna forget this experience, and I think that's

853
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: a good thing. Yeah, now they know what it feels like.

854
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: And now you know they what you guys were number

855
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 2: one this season. I mean you you checked a lot

856
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: of milestones and to me, where you really showed your

857
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: character because after that game we went to where you

858
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: all got the breaks, reet off you by USC.

859
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: You come back in the Big.

860
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 2: Ten tournament and you return to favor and when you

861
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 2: all played them that second played them again, I should

862
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 2: say that third time it would be you can't. Y'all

863
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: came out there with bad attentions and I just like

864
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,479
Speaker 2: to see that. To me, Lauren, look, Laura Betts should

865
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: touch the ball seventy two times a game like she's

866
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: just absolutely should you see how you how South Carolina

867
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: used Carmela Cardosa.

868
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 3: They need to do that with Laura Bett's.

869
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: It's like everything And I'm not saying that they don't,

870
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: but there are definitely times and stretches in the game.

871
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 2: I greet forget about her. I'm like, yo, she needs

872
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 2: to be out there damn near averaging forty.

873
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: Also, though she has the big woman problem, the big

874
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 1: girl problem, the shock problem that the refs aren't calling,

875
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: they're they're dragging her. Did they triple team in her?

876
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: They doing all the things that she doesn't get a

877
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: lot of calls. She definitely didn't get a lot of

878
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: calls in that final four game against Connecticut, and they

879
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: were playing very aggressive, very physically, which is what they

880
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: should do, very physical. But I look, I get it she.

881
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: I think if I, you know, everybody's a coach, a

882
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: Monday morning quarterback, I think that it's just the toughness.

883
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: It's just that mental fortitude that that that switch that

884
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 1: needs to be turned on. Like they they're going to double,

885
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: they're going to triple you. You're not going to get

886
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: the call. You got to get back on defense. You're

887
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: not gonna make the shot. You got to get back

888
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: on defense. You got to bully your way in there,

889
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: you know. And I think I think that bully mentality helps,

890
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,959
Speaker 1: Like you know, I you know, I'll take the page

891
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 1: out of our art. We just talked about our colleague

892
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: Stephen A. Smith. He would always be like, y'all need

893
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: a goon, y'all need somebody to give away five files,

894
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: y'all need a goon. And I was like we need

895
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: a goon. We need to We need a goon, and

896
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, that's what we need.

897
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: So shout out to UCLA. Very proud of y'all. Positions changing.

898
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: We are our last topic because we don't hit fifteen

899
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: of them. Positions changing as a journalist, and I've had

900
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: this conversation with fellow journalist Kelly Carter and other people

901
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: in the world. Shout out to our girl, Kelly, your

902
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: best friend, our job as journal as a journalist, it's changing.

903
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean the foundation of what we do has changed.

904
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: Like we are obligated to speak truth to power. We

905
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: are obligated to be truthful. But the medium in which

906
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: we are doing it, or that we're allowed to do

907
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: it on for that matter, seems to be going away.

908
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: Legacy media seems to be falling apart left and right.

909
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: I don't think legacy media will last. I don't know.

910
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to be destructive, but five years I'd

911
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: be surprised to see where legacy media is in five years,

912
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: more specifically, black legendary. You know, anchors and analysts who

913
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: do news, not necessarily sports, we're seeing them, you know,

914
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: we're seeing we're seeing what happens when you speak truth

915
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: to power on a legacy outlet like an MSNBC. Our

916
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,959
Speaker 1: friend Joy Read was fired for or let go rather

917
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: for whatever reasons. Right, you can name a list before that.

918
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: It was Don Lemon, and we can go on and

919
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: go on and go on. Where do you see journalism

920
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: and legacy media in the next few years?

921
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 3: So I do agree.

922
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: I agree with you that legacy media has a major problem,

923
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: you know, especially, I think there's always going to be

924
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: a certain amount of people who do watch legacy media, like,

925
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: because you know, as much as people watch things on

926
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 2: their phone, there is a huge contingent of people who

927
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: do not actually like to watch things on their phone,

928
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 2: who prefer still that big, flat, scaring TV and being

929
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: able to see it, and so just the comfort of

930
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 2: being able to turn into CNN or MSNBC or even

931
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 2: local moves, right, Like, that's a part of legacy media.

932
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 3: So I think there's going to always be an audience there.

933
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: It's just that the audience is being is getting smaller

934
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 2: and right now, I think the move for most of

935
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: us who come from legacy media backgrounds is to do

936
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 2: exactly what Don Lemon has done. Yeah, is to do

937
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: what some of these other conservatives have done, Megan Kelly,

938
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 2: all of those they've gone independent, that's what they've done.

939
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: And you know, I certainly have redirect did a lot

940
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: of my focus and attention to my YouTube channel.

941
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: And it is because.

942
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 2: That has probably in terms of monetizing, that's probably the

943
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 2: best model.

944
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 3: Is why a lot of these same people are on substack.

945
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 2: It's like, now, if you have been in a position

946
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 2: to actually build an audience through like a cmdia, an

947
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: audience that you can take with you wherever you go,

948
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: then you then have an opportunity to monetize the people

949
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 2: that mess with you.

950
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,959
Speaker 3: And so like that's where it's going.

951
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: It's like we're going to all just be sort of

952
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 2: independent companies that we're providing a service to people who

953
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: care about what we have to say, who care about

954
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 2: the kind of journalism that we care about and the

955
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 2: kind of reporting and all those other things.

956
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 3: And it is a new model.

957
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: As you said, the method which we gather information doesn't change,

958
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: but we're going to have to become today's journalist has

959
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: to be more business minded than probably journalism minded.

960
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 3: Scary to say, but it's true.

961
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: In order for us to be able to stay in

962
00:48:59,320 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: this space.

963
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 3: You look at what Roland Martin did. I think that's

964
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: probably going to be the model.

965
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 2: Maybe not creating an entire network as he has done,

966
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: but he created an independent platform for himself.

967
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 3: Yep. That is where we have to get to.

968
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: That is what the head of the game, that's what

969
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: he was ahead of the game. And he's always like,

970
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: I did it first. We're like, you're right, but the first,

971
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: always the first. I agree with that, and we all thought, Okay,

972
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: that's not where we want to be because it required

973
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: a little more thought than we probably had the attention

974
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: to give. But now we are required to give it

975
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: attention and we have to learn it in real time,

976
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: in real time. How does that make you feel tired? Exhausted?

977
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: Yes, if I'm being one hundred percent, is tired is

978
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 2: how it makes me feel. But at the same time,

979
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: it's that I've we've had to think about it.

980
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 3: Over the course of our careers.

981
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 2: We've seen our business change a lot, and we've had

982
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 2: to adapt every single time. When I first got to

983
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: the business, it was a panic button. The panic button

984
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 2: was already being hit because newspapers, while they were very profitable,

985
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: there was a lot of anxiety over whether or not

986
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 2: they would be able to maintain the level of incredible

987
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: profit margins they had been provided. There was this transitioning

988
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 2: happening where family owned media companies were then selling out

989
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: to corporations and so it was becoming more corporate owned

990
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 2: media instead of family owned media, and it was a

991
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 2: big difference in approach. And when it became more about

992
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: prioritizing profit, that's when you saw the cracks in journalism.

993
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 2: That's when they started. And then it just was accelerated,

994
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 2: probably every.

995
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 3: Three to five years.

996
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: And when I got to ESPN, the newspaper culture i'd

997
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 2: been a part of was really on life support.

998
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 3: And this is in two thousand and.

999
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: Six, and so by the time I left ESPN, you

1000
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: had local papers that were no longer printing every day

1001
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,439
Speaker 2: of the week. You had a whole bunch of things

1002
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 2: that were happening everything, you know, getting rid of entire

1003
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 2: copy a desk and editors and all the sorts of things.

1004
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 3: And it used to.

1005
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: Be that newspapers like the La Times, they covered everything.

1006
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: They went to the you know, they still do do

1007
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 2: the Olympics, but they went to cover major, big sporting

1008
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: events that didn't always involve LA teams because they felt

1009
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 2: like that was part of the coverage.

1010
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 3: Now you read a lot of sports sections.

1011
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: It's wired copy right, and so our jobs are constantly changing.

1012
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: But the crazy party is our jobs are changing, our.

1013
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,439
Speaker 2: Business is shrinking, but the people need the information more

1014
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 2: now than they ever have. This is about we have

1015
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 2: to be in the mode of wartime journalism. We are

1016
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 2: in wartime. We got to be about that, and so

1017
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 2: we're just in a interesting crossroads. But people are going

1018
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 2: to always need information. They canna always need people who

1019
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: know not to gather it, put it into context, and

1020
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 2: can bring some institutional knowledge to it.

1021
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: Wartime journalism define that.

1022
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: So it's really easy to report under optimal conditions. It

1023
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: reminds me of when I was in when I was

1024
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: a sideline reporter for a college football season back in

1025
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:14,439
Speaker 2: I think this would have been twenty twelve, right, Very

1026
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: easy to report when it's seventy eighty degrees and you

1027
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 2: on the sidelines. So much difficult when the wind is

1028
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: kicking your ass, your hair look a mess, and your

1029
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: makeup is running because it is frigid conditions. But that

1030
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: is when you really prove how much you love this

1031
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: profession and the mission of it.

1032
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 3: And so right now, as there is an assault on history,

1033
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 3: on truth.

1034
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: On the ethics that our profession was built on, is

1035
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: when we need to stay on the strongest. We can't

1036
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: be the ones capitulating in advance. It's never what this

1037
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 2: was supposed to be about. Journalism from the very start

1038
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 2: was always about disruption. And if you can't disrupt in wartime,

1039
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 2: you can't be a journalist.

1040
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 3: It's just that simple.

1041
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 2: So we're in wartime right now, and we will be

1042
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 2: under attack more than ever, and it'll be a government lad.

1043
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 3: Attack as it is.

1044
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 2: And so because of this is when I actually think

1045
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 2: it's kind of a good thing that so many of

1046
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: us are branching off and being independent, because I don't

1047
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 2: know that we need the stress all the time we listen.

1048
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: I love to consistent paycheck like everybody else when it

1049
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 2: comes to legacy media, So I'm not denying that part.

1050
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: But there's a level of stress in this time that

1051
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 2: that's gonna come with that I think most of us

1052
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 2: probably don't need.

1053
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 3: And so, yeah, we're gonna be exhausted.

1054
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 2: Yes, this new age is going to require us to

1055
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 2: do more, to put out more content constantly feeding these

1056
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 2: short attention spans with what we think is valuable information.

1057
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 3: But we got to be ready for this wartime.

1058
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,919
Speaker 1: Jamelle Hill has provided us with the ted talk. You take,

1059
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: that you run with. That that was so encouraging to me,

1060
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: Fran because I often say to myself, should I be

1061
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: making candles now? Should I be putting flowers on bacon?

1062
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: Should girl?

1063
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 3: The way these tarrors about to hit? I don't know,

1064
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 3: could you?

1065
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 2: Because we're gonna all have to learn apparently to churn

1066
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 2: butter and be snapping.

1067
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: Peas because apparently, because apparently so apparent.

1068
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 2: Going back to they like, yeah, you're gonna have to

1069
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: go through a little bit of paid I'm like, oh

1070
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 2: my god, Am I gonna be washing clothes.

1071
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 3: At the river?

1072
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: Like yes, yes, get your washboard out. That's where we're head.

1073
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: That is where we're headed. I'm gonna be Jesus help us.

1074
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: Jamel Hill, you are wonderful. Your YouTube pages what so

1075
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: people can go and listen to it.

1076
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 3: It's called very simple. It's Jamel Hill and.

1077
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: Jamelill I T S I T S that's right. No apostrophy, okay,

1078
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: mine is it's Carrie Champion. I'm sending people there as well,

1079
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: because I just I'm trying to do what you're doing. Friend,

1080
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm learning these we just real aunties trying to go

1081
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: on the live.

1082
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 3: Is this working?

1083
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: Is this yeah? Can y'all see?

1084
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 3: Yay?

1085
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: Right, hey, turn this on for your mama. Get this

1086
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: right here.

1087
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 3: Okay.

1088
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: Now that's how Don Living first started. And now he

1089
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: just live everywhere. He live from the bathroom, he live

1090
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 1: from a shoe box, he live walking down the street.

1091
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: He live in the middle of the theater. I'm like, ah,

1092
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: so you now you now you're millennial, Okay, DoD you

1093
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 1: know from Baby Boom merchant, millennial and up here telling

1094
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: us how to do it. All right, I got you.

1095
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 1: I'll get there. I'll get there. Thank you so much

1096
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,479
Speaker 1: for being on Naked Sports. I appreciate you, my friend.

1097
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 1: So I love you and I'll talk to you soon,

1098
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: all right.

1099
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 3: Always a pleasure.

1100
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: Naked Sports written and executive produced by me Carry Champion,

1101
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 1: produced by Jockey's Thomas Sound Design, and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.

1102
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 1: Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effects podcast

1103
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: network in iHeartMedia.