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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. My name is Max, my

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Speaker 1: name isn't all they called me Ben. We are joined

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Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Deckett. Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 1: You are you, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. Today's episode deals with some issues

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Speaker 1: that people may find, uh personally very disturbing. But we

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Speaker 1: are here to shed a little bit of daylight into

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Speaker 1: a murky world and a a catastrophic occurrence that the U.

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Speaker 1: S and other countries are experiencing as we record the

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Speaker 1: episode today, the subject Conspiracy Realist is drugs, drug use,

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Speaker 1: drug abuse, manufacturing and manufacturing. Oh that's the most important part. Yes,

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Speaker 1: whether we are talking legal drugs, illegal, recreational or purely medicinal,

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Speaker 1: it's no secret there is huge business, a multibillion dollar business.

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Speaker 1: And each day across this planet of ours, millions of

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Speaker 1: people depend on some form of drug to either what

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Speaker 1: prolonged their lives, to combat an ongoing incurable disease or condition,

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Speaker 1: or to escape their problems, whatever those may be. In

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Speaker 1: many cases, consumption of recreational drugs leads to injury or death.

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Speaker 1: And depending on where you're from, there's a question for everyone. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you may have grown up in a school system with

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Speaker 1: an anti drug program. I think we the three of

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Speaker 1: us mentioned it before on the show Dare Here in

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Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They had to call

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Speaker 1: it scare because I have this really distinct memory of

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Speaker 1: being in elementary school and somebody giving this speech about

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Speaker 1: when they were addicted to crack cocaine and talking about like,

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Speaker 1: and I looked in the mirror one day and what

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Speaker 1: I saw was a skeleton looking back at me. And

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Speaker 1: in my third grade mind or whatever grade mind, I

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Speaker 1: thought he meant really like he saw a spooky skeleton

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Speaker 1: looking back at him in the mirror, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: drugs are terrifying. Yeah. Yeah, the old drug abuse resistance

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Speaker 1: education program it was. It was rampant in my school.

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Speaker 1: Dare to Say No Yes, Dare to keep a kid

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Speaker 1: off drugs, Dare to give a kids some hope. These

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Speaker 1: are lyrics from the song They Make You See. Now

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Speaker 1: it's just been relegated to a trendy hipster thrift store shirt. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can get your hands on one of those. You're

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Speaker 1: living large. Yeah, Yeah, I think it's it's great to

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Speaker 1: have him. I still have some of my old Dare shirts,

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Speaker 1: and I would say, I I'm not against this idea

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Speaker 1: of having drug abuse resistant programs within schools, but there's

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Speaker 1: there's more to that story, but we can get it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm not against it either in theory. It's I'm

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Speaker 1: torn because I think in many cases some of those

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Speaker 1: programs encouraged kids to experiment with drugs. Well, they did

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Speaker 1: it throughout my education high school too, And I remember

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Speaker 1: in high school somebody came in with this like suitcase

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Speaker 1: with replicas of all the drugs, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I want to try that. I want to try that.

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Speaker 1: I want to try not really, but it's it just

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Speaker 1: it has this like candy vibe to it, where everything

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Speaker 1: looks like a fun little thing you want to check out.

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Speaker 1: It's a little weird and and their success remains a

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Speaker 1: matter of debate to date. These sorts of programs. You know,

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Speaker 1: how many of those how many of those kids in

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Speaker 1: high school would well, like, Okay. The joke at a

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Speaker 1: school I attended briefly was that you could tell all

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Speaker 1: the kids who won the essay awards for Dare because

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Speaker 1: they were the biggest potheads by senior year. Wow, every

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Speaker 1: single one. And uh and maybe that's just that school, right.

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Speaker 1: But today we're talking about a certain type of drug,

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Speaker 1: one that you may have seen in that suitcase that

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Speaker 1: Noel had just mentioned if when you were a child,

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Speaker 1: One that previously launched numerous wars, one that has shaped

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Speaker 1: a lot of human civilization and experienced the sinister renaissance

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Speaker 1: in the modern age. Today we're talking about opium, specifically

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Speaker 1: the opioid crisis. So here are the facts. First, what

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Speaker 1: what is opium? What what is opium? What is an opioid?

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Speaker 1: How do they how do they measure? Up right? Opium

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Speaker 1: is this old substance that's been around for forever. It's

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Speaker 1: a bitter, brownish, addictive narcotic drug. It consists of the

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Speaker 1: dry to latex that's that surrounds immature seed capsules in

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Speaker 1: this this happy little flower plant called an opium poppy.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting to me because a lot of like marijuana

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Speaker 1: legalization advocates, one of their arguments is will it grows

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Speaker 1: from the ground, so it's gotta be okay? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: so do poppies, and so do the coca plants, so

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Speaker 1: kind of kills that argument dead. Yeah, that's a good point.

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Speaker 1: And also, of course hashtag not all poppies. The matt

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Speaker 1: is that there's a specific type of poppy, the opium poppy,

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Speaker 1: that is used to create this substance, and it has

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Speaker 1: been cultivated over millennia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it dates way back,

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Speaker 1: and people loved it when they first discovered it because

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Speaker 1: it produces a lower state of anxiety and increased sense

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Speaker 1: of well being. You get drowsy, you get a little apathetic,

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Speaker 1: it's tough to concentrate, and there are physical effects that

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Speaker 1: you will hear people relay as ways to encounter, ways

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Speaker 1: to tell physically if someone is under the influence of

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Speaker 1: opium or an opioid. Like a lot of law enforcement

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Speaker 1: spends time teaching their officials to diagnose on the lie,

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Speaker 1: which is relatively unscientific. I think it caused causes constriction

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Speaker 1: of the pupils, for example, they getting very tiny. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's also a euphoria associated with it when taken

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Speaker 1: at certain levels of doses. Yeah, that's why people chase

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Speaker 1: the dragon, right, So they've been chasing this dragon, and

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Speaker 1: people who use opium have been chasing it for more

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Speaker 1: than five thousand years. The first references to growth and

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Speaker 1: use date back to three thousand, four hundred b c E,

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Speaker 1: when Mesopotamians cultivated the opium poppy. Mesopotamia is more or

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Speaker 1: less where we would picture Southwest Asia today, and Samarians

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Speaker 1: referred to it as whole gil the joy plant, which

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Speaker 1: makes sense. They passed it on to the Assyrians. The

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Speaker 1: Assyrians passed it onto the Egyptians, Greco Romans. Of course

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Speaker 1: we're in the game. They also they saw it as

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Speaker 1: a both a painkiller and a some thing to do

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Speaker 1: with bowels. I can't remember if it was supposed to,

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Speaker 1: uh stop you up or let you go. I think

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Speaker 1: it stops you up. I think that effect of opiate

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Speaker 1: addiction is chronic constipation. So they understood its medicinal use

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Speaker 1: in that regard. But of course, what you want to

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Speaker 1: do that if you had like diarrhearia, you know you

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Speaker 1: had some kind of you die from diarrhea. But but

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Speaker 1: regardless of the the primary appeal of the substance had

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Speaker 1: has always been the way it makes you feel right,

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Speaker 1: uh pooper non poopa side and the demand for this

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Speaker 1: increased internationally, and early international trade opium played an increasingly

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Speaker 1: significant role. It It's easy to grow, so people in

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Speaker 1: the right climate would say, why do I have to

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Speaker 1: buy this stuff from this shady you know, the shady

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Speaker 1: Roman or the shady Assyrian or whatever, when I can

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Speaker 1: just take a poppy and then grow my own and

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Speaker 1: maybe you know, take care of my supply and then

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Speaker 1: sell it. So other countries began to grow this industry

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Speaker 1: and they expanded its availability. The old rule of supply

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Speaker 1: and demand still played a role here, so opium got

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Speaker 1: cheaper too as more countries were growing it, and it

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Speaker 1: quickly becomes a cash crop for a lot of places. Yes,

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Speaker 1: perhaps it remains so today, places that maybe lacked other

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Speaker 1: um means of making money because of climate or location,

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Speaker 1: rocky terrain. And I think that's part of what makes

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Speaker 1: opium so appealing to grow, is because it's pretty adaptable

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Speaker 1: or it can grow and not the most ideal of

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Speaker 1: situation circumstances. And also it's easy to transport, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's a big thing. So people began cultivating it all

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Speaker 1: along the various trade routes through Eurasia, which are collectively

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Speaker 1: known today as the Silk Road. So from the Mediterranean

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Speaker 1: through Asia finally to China, opium was growing at this point.

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Speaker 1: Let's fast forward. That's a very high level look. There's

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Speaker 1: some excellent history podcast about this growth of opium and

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Speaker 1: ancient history right to us. If you want to hear them, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll send them along. I I can safely uh say

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Speaker 1: that these are great because we didn't do them, so

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Speaker 1: it's not us bracket. They're they're objectively good. But one

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Speaker 1: of the first and most historically significant conflicts or catastrophes

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Speaker 1: caused directly by opium, it was a series of conflicts

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Speaker 1: known as the Opium Wars. The first one occurred in

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Speaker 1: eighteen thirty nine through ninety two between China and Britain,

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Speaker 1: and the second Opium War occurred shortly after that in

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty six to eighteen sixty uh The this was

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Speaker 1: sometimes called the Arrow War, and in that second one,

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Speaker 1: Britain and France teamed up against China. In each case

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Speaker 1: the Western Powers were victorious, and in each case the

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Speaker 1: Western Powers were the bad guys. Categorically, they're the ones

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Speaker 1: that were They were pushing the opium trade on back

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Speaker 1: onto China because China was trying to get away or

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Speaker 1: stop the opium crisis that was occurring within their country,

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Speaker 1: because this when they would have had like these opium

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Speaker 1: dens or opium clubs or whatever, where people were recreationally

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Speaker 1: using it and it had become a problem socially in

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Speaker 1: the country. Yeah uh there, and in India adjacent to China,

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Speaker 1: would essentially happen was a trade imbalance. So there was

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Speaker 1: a huge demand for certain Chinese produced goods silk, porcelain, jade,

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, and the West wanted this stuff. It's

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Speaker 1: consumers wanted it. By consumers at this point for those

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Speaker 1: kinds of goods I generally mean the really wealthy people,

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Speaker 1: the heuristic hats and such. But the problem was there

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Speaker 1: was no reciprocity. China didn't want anything that France and

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Speaker 1: Britain were making, but they did. But Britain particularly did

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Speaker 1: control these opium producing regions, and they knew that they

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Speaker 1: could engage a more successful trade if they if they

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Speaker 1: had something that the population of China wanted. Even more importantly,

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Speaker 1: if they could create the demand for something, if they

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Speaker 1: could make people want it. And can we just go

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Speaker 1: back and just say they were controlling those regions through

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Speaker 1: colonial means yes, through capturing regions that were resource rich

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Speaker 1: or in this case poppy rich, right like the East

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Speaker 1: India Company and one of the most one of the

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Speaker 1: first globally successful corporations and definitely one of the most brutal.

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Speaker 1: So the addiction rate amongst the Chinese population soared. They

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Speaker 1: they said, look, we're banning all opium, don't bring it in.

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Speaker 1: Britain started smuggling it through the areas they controlled in India,

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Speaker 1: and then, uh, they decided to fight dirty. Ultimately, when

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Speaker 1: they were victorious, what they got where trade concessions and

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Speaker 1: some subjugation. But they didn't they did not succeed in colonizing.

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Speaker 1: China's too big and not as not as vulnerable in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways the other nations were. They also

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Speaker 1: had no interest in uh, in the spread of Western religion.

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Speaker 1: There you go, and I mean that's a huge deal.

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Speaker 1: You got to indoctrinate as you move forward and colonize.

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Speaker 1: And we we have made two videos on this subject.

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Speaker 1: Uh they're available on YouTube and our website. One of

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Speaker 1: them is called have Countries really fought Wars over Opium?

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Speaker 1: And the second one is do the Opium Wars continue today?

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Speaker 1: And they're highly informative videos and they pull on a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff that other our colleagues have done on

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Speaker 1: the awards in the past, right, like stuff you missed

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Speaker 1: in history class stuff you should know all hits, all classics. Hey,

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Speaker 1: matth do those just questions you did those videos still

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Speaker 1: hold up? Would you say there's still relevant in definitely? Well?

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Speaker 1: And these are historical accounts of the opium wars, so

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Speaker 1: the first one is at least and the second one

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Speaker 1: really has to do with kind of what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about today. Ah, I see, yeah, And speaking of today,

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Speaker 1: what is the legal status of opium? Right? This thing

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Speaker 1: that launched so many wars like an evil helen of Troy. Today,

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Speaker 1: opium is considered illegal in most countries, including, oddly enough,

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Speaker 1: the countries where tons and tons literal tons of it

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Speaker 1: are produced each year, such as Afghanistan. It's still illegal there.

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Speaker 1: And again you're talking about substance that can fund anything

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Speaker 1: else in the country because there is so much money

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Speaker 1: to be made and not a lot of other resources

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Speaker 1: to be produced. Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, that is

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Speaker 1: a crucial point here. I think. So in the US,

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Speaker 1: most opiates and synthetic opioids are considered scheduled to narcotics

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Speaker 1: by the d E A Drug Enforcement Administration, and because

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Speaker 1: of this they have to be prescribed by a physician.

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Speaker 1: They are highly regulated currently. Of all the opiates opiate

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Speaker 1: or opioid being something derived from actual opium, of all

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Speaker 1: of those things, heroin is the only one that is

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Speaker 1: Schedule one, which means the US government Uncle SAM considers

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Speaker 1: that it has a high potential for abuse with little,

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Speaker 1: relatively little real medicinal value. Like to the US, this

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Speaker 1: is just a drug that does damage just when it's

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Speaker 1: harrowing and it's so fascinating, which is interesting. Take a

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Speaker 1: half a step, and then you've got all the other

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Speaker 1: drugs we're gonna be talking about today. And of the

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Speaker 1: estimated global opium production, almost half of it is legally

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Speaker 1: produced for processing into these medicines that you just mentioned, Matt.

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Speaker 1: Any country can do this. Any country in the world

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Speaker 1: can apply to the u N. They've got a thing

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Speaker 1: called the Commission on Narcotic Drugs to cultivate, produce and

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Speaker 1: trade opium legally. UH because of this convention signed in

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Speaker 1: ninety one, the u N Single Convention on Narcotics Drugs,

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Speaker 1: and they'll have some supervision from another U N body.

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Speaker 1: But as of two thousand one, there were eighteen countries

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Speaker 1: that do this legally, including countries you might expect like

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Speaker 1: Turkey or India, who which historically produced opium. That's I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing a stereotype, just based on historical precedent. But

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Speaker 1: then other countries like Australia and the United Kingdom also

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Speaker 1: fall under this, so they're also producing opium. I just

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Speaker 1: want to be clear about that. So, so that's opium,

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Speaker 1: but we're we're going toward opioids. What what exactly is

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Speaker 1: an opioid? Yeah, opioids it's kind of like this overarching

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Speaker 1: umbrella term, but it's used to describe um substances that

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Speaker 1: tick at least three of the opium receptors in the

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Speaker 1: brain that interact with them. It's a class of drug

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Speaker 1: that includes illegal, illegal narcotic heroine, but it also includes

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Speaker 1: synthetic opioids like fentanyl, um and other pain medications that

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Speaker 1: can be obtained legally with the prescription, like oxycodone. We've

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Speaker 1: got some brand names here, which is OxyContin, hydrocodone, or vicodin, codeine, morphine,

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Speaker 1: and tons of more. So, Okay, a little more on

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Speaker 1: the way the US and the d e A schedules drugs,

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Speaker 1: there's a system in place. Opioids vary from Schedule one

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Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, heroin being the only one that

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Speaker 1: is considered that meaning it has no medicinal use whatsoever

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Speaker 1: and high potential for abuse, um and it goes to

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Speaker 1: Schedule five and depending on it's all depending on this

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Speaker 1: proced eived medical usefulness, abuse potential, safety, drug dependence profile,

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Speaker 1: which sounds like a very high level way of saying addictability, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is different from abuse potential. Abuse potential is how

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Speaker 1: likely would someone go overboard to chase a particular effect

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Speaker 1: to the and dependency is how likely would somebody have

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Speaker 1: to be normal with it? And dependency and the argument

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Speaker 1: or discussion surrounding that is a huge part of today's story,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get more into in a bit um And

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Speaker 1: heroin remains completely illegal to distribute, purchase, or use outside

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Speaker 1: of any kind of medical research, where I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that would look like. Medical research in this sense

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Speaker 1: would mean that a board like clinical researchers or groups

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Speaker 1: of doctors, often through a university or government sponsored treatment center,

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Speaker 1: will be able to access opium or create heroin from

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Speaker 1: it for the purpose of creating maybe a new opioid

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Speaker 1: for the purpose of learning more about how heroin itself

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Speaker 1: affects users. And it's kind of similar to the like

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Speaker 1: testing some of the hallucinogens right now, see how they

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Speaker 1: affect people with either post traumatic stress disorder or something

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Speaker 1: and something like M D M A R. Yes, And

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Speaker 1: speaking of users, we would say, one of the most

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Speaker 1: important parts of this story, let's learn a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about usage statistics for opium and opioids. After a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, Okay, everyone, this is the point

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Speaker 1: where we dive into some numbers which are fascinating and damning.

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Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, and important, and please try do

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Speaker 1: your best not to gloss over and soak these in.

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Speaker 1: There a lot of numbers in this this section we're

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Speaker 1: coming onto, but they are highly important. So we dug

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Speaker 1: up some relatively recent numbers. Just going back a few years,

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Speaker 1: the International Narcotics Control Board reported that in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: point seven percent of the world's hydro codeon, known by

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Speaker 1: its brand name Vikadin, was consumed in the US alone.

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Speaker 1: Point three percent of the world's vikadin is consumed outside

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Speaker 1: of the U S. It's insane. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: has anything to do with our ability within this country

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Speaker 1: to promote drugs through advertising? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we've

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Speaker 1: mentioned it before. We should mention it again. Will you

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Speaker 1: break that down for anyone who didn't hear this in

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Speaker 1: earlier episodes? And is it from the States? In a

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Speaker 1: lot of places outside of our grand little experiment here

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Speaker 1: you are on, you're not allowed. It is illegal to

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Speaker 1: market prescription drugs to people, to try and sell it

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Speaker 1: as a product to purchase or to use. Wait, so

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Speaker 1: you're not allowed to have a happy housewife dancing blissfully

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Speaker 1: across the playground to her child waiting on the swing set. Yes,

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Speaker 1: no matter how many precautions you put at the end

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Speaker 1: of your ad, you cannot show it in many places

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Speaker 1: with neon green grass and perfectly as your blue skies

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Speaker 1: and very very vague. It's only allowed in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: In the US bonkers. And I was even gonna bring up, like,

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Speaker 1: what's what's that conversation like where you decide we're gonna

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Speaker 1: call it vicaden? Is there any etymology in the names

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Speaker 1: of these drugs ever at all? I've always wondered the

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Speaker 1: case by case. It's similar to so because this is

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Speaker 1: private industry, there's the marketing decision really comes down to

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Speaker 1: a conversation between the CEOs, the PR firms, and maybe

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Speaker 1: the people who actually made the drug. But I don't

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Speaker 1: think the FDA would have any any weigh in potentially

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Speaker 1: because there because these groups present it to the FDA. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the FDA often is this series. They will have

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Speaker 1: some guidelines about this, but the f D a in

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Speaker 1: theory on paper and the FDA and practice are two

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Speaker 1: very very different organizations, unfortunately for most residents of this country.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's true. It's a case by case thing,

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Speaker 1: so they'll have there will be some policy conventions. There's

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Speaker 1: not a law, but there will be policy conventions such

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Speaker 1: as you can't name this, UH can't secure happy fun

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Speaker 1: fun pills? Right right, right? But I would argue that

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Speaker 1: things like Lyrica are pushing the line on that sounds nice.

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Speaker 1: Just saying it out loud makes me have a warm,

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Speaker 1: fuzzy feeling, right, So it's it does go down to marketing.

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Speaker 1: If you're listening to this, and you are you have

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Speaker 1: participated the naming of a drug, we would love to

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Speaker 1: hear your process. Absolutely, Yeah, Tayland, I'll get at us right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Ecce is a good one because you had the root

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Speaker 1: of excel in there. That's an excellent Uh. So throughout,

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Speaker 1: regardless of what the names for these drugs were, there

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Speaker 1: were more than sixty three thousand, six hundred overdose deaths

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Speaker 1: in the US. Of those, sixty three thousand, six hundred,

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Speaker 1: forty two thousand, two forty nine involved an opioid. That's

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Speaker 1: sixty six percent. That's over sixty and that if we

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Speaker 1: want to math it out a little bit, that equates

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Speaker 1: to an average of one hundred and fifteen overdose deaths

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Speaker 1: just from opioids every single day in Do we have

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Speaker 1: a statistic as to whether there were street opioids or

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Speaker 1: prescription opioids and I would love to see a breakdown

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Speaker 1: of that. Probably hard to tell, well, yeah, because they

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Speaker 1: gather that information when they assess cause of death, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes it might be difficult to figure out how that

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Speaker 1: got in their system. So I bet, I bet you

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Speaker 1: if we drill down enough we can we can find

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Speaker 1: something there, or we can find a good guess. But

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Speaker 1: at that at that statistic is just some sort of opioid. Still,

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Speaker 1: it's they're dead. But given the prescription rate and the numbers,

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Speaker 1: it sure feels like a big chunk of those are

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Speaker 1: probably legally obtained and prescribed or sold by someone who

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Speaker 1: legally obtained and prescribed them to someone who maybe shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have had them from what they call pill mills pill mills.

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Speaker 1: Considering those numbers, we said at the top of the

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Speaker 1: show about how many people in this country rely on

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Speaker 1: prescription medication. Yeah, and we do have stats on the

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Speaker 1: number of opioid prescriptions in. This is troubling. It goes

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Speaker 1: to your question about how we could ascertain which particular

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Speaker 1: type of opioid because people were trying like street or

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Speaker 1: prescription in there were a hundred and twelve million prescriptions

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Speaker 1: written for some sort of opioid by two thousand and

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Speaker 1: twelve that it peaked to two hundred and eighty two million.

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Speaker 1: Sorry what yeah, per year, not per day. Well over doubled. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well over doubled. The good news is it began to

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Speaker 1: decline after that, but but not by that much. Two

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Speaker 1: hundred something million is the new normal now in the

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Speaker 1: number had fallen to two thirty six million, so it's

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Speaker 1: still more than doubled. Oh gosh, yeah, and surely it's

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Speaker 1: not a product of some kind of massive population boom.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we definitely obviously know our population is

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Speaker 1: growing to certainly not by that kind of number. And

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Speaker 1: you're asking about a number that you could point to

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Speaker 1: to how many prescription deaths there have been so from

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Speaker 1: up until they are a roughly in estimated one dred

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Speaker 1: and eighty three thousand deaths from prescription overdoses opiate overdoses,

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Speaker 1: which means that's what an average of ninety one overdose

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Speaker 1: deaths per day since And as a result, to put

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Speaker 1: this in perspective, this means we have have a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks who listened to this show while they're driving.

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Speaker 1: So this might be good news for you. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: are more likely to die of an opioid overdose than

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Speaker 1: a car crash. Yeah, so you're you're safer in your

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Speaker 1: car at least. Man, you know, driving and work today.

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Speaker 1: Four cars ahead of me, some dude was trying to

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Speaker 1: get off at the street exit coming south on eight five.

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Speaker 1: This is for all you Atlanta listeners. Um, and as

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Speaker 1: he's trying to get over, he's trying to do it,

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Speaker 1: you know, right at the end, right before there's the

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Speaker 1: guardrail and and he couldn't make it, so he like

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Speaker 1: swung his car back to the left, made another car

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Speaker 1: get out of the way of him, and ran into

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Speaker 1: a truck just a couple of cars ahead of me.

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Speaker 1: And um, so even in Atlanta traffic, you're safer in

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Speaker 1: your car and you are taking prescription opious. Yes, in

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Speaker 1: a crazy place like this statistically speaking at least, right,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, that's that's a sobering point. And as of

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Speaker 1: more than two million American residents have become either dependent

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Speaker 1: on or have abused prescription pain pills and street drugs.

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Speaker 1: So luckily, at least that's the total for the illegal

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Speaker 1: trade as well as the quote unquote legal one. And

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Speaker 1: we have to ask ourselves, at what point does this

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Speaker 1: become an epidemic. Most would argue that having this many

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Speaker 1: people addicted to some derivative of opium or a similar

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Speaker 1: narcotic means we're already in a crisis. But but if

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Speaker 1: that doesn't tip the scale, if two million is not enough,

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Speaker 1: then what does move the needle? More deaths, a higher

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Speaker 1: rate of addiction. Is it a crisis when it's five

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Speaker 1: million people? Is it not a crisis until it's ten million? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who decides that. Well, I think recently the current president

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Speaker 1: did declare that there was a crisis. Right well, there

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Speaker 1: there have been cries to call it a crisis for

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Speaker 1: a long time, and the news, the media has been

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Speaker 1: calling it a crisis for years and years and um,

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Speaker 1: but didn't he stop just short of their being really

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Speaker 1: any real action behind it? Like I think declaring a

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Speaker 1: state of emergency or something allows some kind of federal

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Speaker 1: money to kick in to help mitigate a problem. And

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Speaker 1: I think his declarations stopped just short of anything real happening.

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Speaker 1: It was more of a symbolic gesture anything. Well, yeah,

427
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 1: it's a question of do we use tax money to

428
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: actually combat it, or do we say, yes, it's a

429
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: crisis and let's get more private institutions working on it.

430
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: And right now that fight is going state by state,

431
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: and it leads us to another question, how did this

432
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: all happen? What caused this? It's sort of like that,

433
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: uh that trope in film and television where you get

434
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: to a freeze frame and someone you hear a voice

435
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: over say, you're probably wondering how I got here? That's

436
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: our question what brought us here? Here's where it gets crazy.

437
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: According to numerous critics, policy rea searchers, government officials, medical experts,

438
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: and more, the cause of the current opioid epidemic isn't

439
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: solely the fault of say, like some illegal drug cartel

440
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: over the border or in the Golden Triangles somewhere. It's

441
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: not street level dealers like Pooky and the Wire. Instead,

442
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: they argue the blame for the present crisis falls squarely

443
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: at the feet of the pharmaceutical industry, the lobbyisted employees,

444
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: and the government officials with whom these lobbyists interact. I mean,

445
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: if we take a closer look, nearly seventy five of

446
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: people who are receiving treatment for heroin addiction didn't just

447
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: start doing heroin. They didn't wake up one day and say,

448
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: you know what, carpe diem. They began their addiction by

449
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: being prescribed opioid painkillers, typically for a pain killing thing, right.

450
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: And these these are often people who don't have a

451
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: his stree of drug abuse, and many times it has

452
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: to do with being prescribed a certain amount of opioid

453
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: so over a threshold of days. I think the safe

454
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: threshold is like seven or something around that, and many

455
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: many of these begin when you get like two weeks,

456
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: three weeks worth of prescription pain killers. Yeah. And the

457
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: weird thing is that this statistic that seventy I think

458
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: the number may have increased now that the vast majority

459
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: of people are in treatment for heroin addiction in the

460
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: US started heroin after they could no longer get legal

461
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 1: opioid prescriptions. This this is absolutely a well known fact,

462
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: but it still has yet to stop the rise in

463
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: opioid prescriptions for pain relief. That over the past ten

464
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: years the number of prescriptions handed out has risen by

465
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: three We'll get this. There's an article coal from the

466
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: Washington Post from two thousand fifteen, so not incredibly up

467
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: to date, but still the headline is why a bag

468
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: of heroin costs less than a pack of cigarettes, and

469
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: it has a map for the entire country showing about

470
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: how much a bag of heroin costs. And by bag,

471
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: we're saying that's that's about a dose. Maybe it's two doses,

472
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Point being, it's between seven and ten

473
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: dollars for an amount of heroine that could potentially kill

474
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: you and would be enough to completely put you put

475
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: your but butt in the dirt, you know what I mean.

476
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: But how much does that? How much does a heavy

477
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: heroin user use per day? Surely more than water two doses?

478
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. And here's the thing too, I just looked

479
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: up oxycontent pill price um and it says when legally sold,

480
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: a ten milligram tab of oxy cotton is about a

481
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: buck twenty five and an eighty milligram tablet will cost

482
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: six dollars. When illegally sold on the street, it can

483
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: cost between ten dollars and eighty dollars for one pill,

484
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: depending on the dose. So it's usually about a dollar

485
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: a milligram, So an eighty milligram oxy content is about

486
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: eighty dollars and a tab is just a pill. So

487
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: you can see maybe if you can't get it legally

488
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: prescribed and you're relying on those pill mills or buying

489
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: it illegally from someone who does have the prescription, which

490
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: is certainly how a lot of the stuff gets into circulation,

491
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: you could see the the attraction of buying those seven

492
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: dollar bags of heroin if you're really addicted to that

493
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: particular you know, buzz, And then people would say, well,

494
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm doing this is a stop gap, right

495
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to shoot it up. I'm not

496
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: going to take it intravenously. I'm not ann insulfate or whatever.

497
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: I'm just going to maybe smoke it there snorted. Yeah, yeah, right,

498
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: maybe get to snorting it, but never shooting it. So

499
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: one of the big there's some demographics that fall into

500
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: us to that we would be remiss if we didn't mention.

501
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: We'll get to him by the end of the episode,

502
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: but for now we can say that opiate manufacturers know

503
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: how much money is at stake. They've spent more than

504
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: eight hundred and eighty million over the past ten years

505
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: just to not to make new drugs, but just to

506
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: keep control over the making and distribution of these substances. Yeah,

507
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: we we almost said products. Want to momit a little bit.

508
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: It's true. And this money, where did this massive amount

509
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: of cash uh come from? Where do we get this number?

510
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: It comes from their lobbying and campaign contributions. And this

511
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: has been used in large settlements with anyone looking to

512
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: challenge what what is commonly called big pharma. I know,

513
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: when you hear that phrase, it makes it easy to

514
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: dismiss this as uh, some looney tunes conspiracy theory. But

515
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: there is a huge end to street it's real. Call

516
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: it big farm, and call it whatever you want. It's

517
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: not going to stop them. A small group of very

518
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: profitable companies and very powerful and they have, you know,

519
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: a lot of money for lobbyists to wield legislative influence

520
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: and make sure that that pill money keeps on a flowing. Yeah.

521
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: In the nineteen nineties, pharmaceutical companies reassured the medical community, doctors, researchers, hospitals,

522
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: medical institutions that patients would not become addicted to prescription

523
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: opioid pain relievers. Is that this is different from heroin.

524
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: This is or morphine right, or opium. This is f

525
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: d A approved this. We have specifically made this to

526
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: uh mitigate or ameliorate some of those concerns about the

527
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: possibility of addiction. And then healthcare providers began to prescribe

528
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: them at these drugs rather at greater rates. And when

529
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: they say they persuaded them and reassured them that that's

530
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: where money comes into play. It's a little bit of

531
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: a euphemistic thing. Well, you know our mouse pads, right, Well,

532
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: I think we just have to say right here at

533
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: the top that there are a lot of people everywhere

534
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: on this planet that are in constant pain, that just

535
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: kind of live in in some kind of pain that

536
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: exists and it subsists, and the invention of these products

537
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 1: what is and was kind of this amazing miracle thing

538
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: for people who are just constantly in pain. I mean,

539
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: I can take a pill and I don't hurt always. Right.

540
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: It's not a cure, but it's a it's it's not

541
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: it lessens the curse chronic and curable pain. It almost

542
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: the the idea of it at least gives the lives

543
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: back to people who are taking it. Right. That's powerful.

544
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: So you can see you can kind of see here

545
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: where a lot of it is mental from the manufacturers

546
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: to the end user of I'm I'm doing something good

547
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: or this is helping me, this is giving me my

548
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: life back. I just want to throw that in that

549
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: any brilliant point in the nineties, everyone wanted to believe

550
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: these statements by the pharmaceutical companies, and perhaps you know what,

551
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: you know what, man, perhaps they believed it too. Yeah.

552
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: Let's just look, maybe they did either way, whether they

553
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: were purposely being deceptive or whether they honestly just somehow

554
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: didn't do even the most cursory research on this stuff.

555
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: Whatever happened, uh, it led to the misuse of these

556
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: medications and eventually became clear that they were highly addictive

557
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: and anyone who said otherwise was either lying or cartoonishly wrong.

558
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: And first, it is valid for defenders of these companies

559
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: to say you cannot blame drug companies for legally selling

560
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: something the FDA approved. But the problem with that is

561
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies didn't just sell these opioids. They also brutally

562
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: suppressed legislation that would have limited addiction among patients, including,

563
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: for instance, bill in Tennessee that was designed to reduce

564
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: the number of newborns who were born addicted to opiates.

565
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: For some reason, the drug companies heavily lobbied to kill

566
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: that bill and successfully. In New Mexico, there was another

567
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: proposed bill that was supposed to limit the initial prescription

568
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: of opioids for acute pain to your point, Matt to

569
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: seven days to a week, and that would make addiction

570
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: less likely and produce fewer leftover pills, which a big problem.

571
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: But that legislation got killed as well. And let's be

572
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: even more fair here, they didn't just kill certain bills

573
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: or proposals. Don't want to make it sound like that

574
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: they were instrumental. In fact, this might surprise some people

575
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: in supporting several key pieces of legislation related to opioids.

576
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 1: They were huge fans of a bill in Maine that

577
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: required insurers to cover the company's abuse deterrent pain killers.

578
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: Do you like that phrase abuse deterrence? Right? Wait? What

579
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: are what are these abuse to turrent pain killers? This

580
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: special version? Well, the the idea is that they aren't there,

581
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: you're less likely to get addicted again. That's how they were.

582
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: Things like time release kind of like stuff like that,

583
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: because I know that like early on you would always

584
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: read that with oxycontent, for example, you could crush them

585
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: up and and snort them like we were talking about,

586
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: and we we we found out that the doctor that

587
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: the companies knew that that was being done, that there

588
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: was that kind of abuse. But then later there were

589
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: versions of them that you could not do that with.

590
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: They had some special coding that you would not break

591
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: or it would fundamentally change the nature of the drug

592
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: and it prevented you from doing this the kind of

593
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: stuff you're talking about. Yeah, those those would be a

594
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: couple of examples. And I don't know if there's anything

595
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: that's industry wide with that, because again, these are all

596
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: private companies, but it would be stuff like time release

597
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: for instance, or something. Um, that coding you mentioned is

598
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: fast and you know everyone to read more about that.

599
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,479
Speaker 1: But I'm glad you're bringing up specific examples because we'll

600
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: get to some specific examples of instances wherein these pharmaceutical

601
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 1: companies became let's say, controversial after a word from our sponsors. Alright, okay,

602
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm there. Let's see what's going on. Um, it's it's

603
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: it's about a year ago. Oh, you're right, Okay, much

604
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: much the same. What's going on? First? We love the

605
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: what what season of Game of Thrones are we on

606
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: at that plant? Right? Right? Uh? Is it still wrapping

607
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: up the last one? Right? I think so? Yeah? And uh,

608
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: you know, the four of us are all still devastatingly handsome,

609
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: reasonably witty man, you devil, I'm a sly one, right. Uh.

610
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: And there's also a Senator named Claire mccaskell, uh, Democrat

611
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: out of Missouri who releases a report about an Arizona

612
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: based drug maker named insists I N S Y S Yes. Uh.

613
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: They make an opioid called subsiss s U b s

614
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: y s H. It contains fentanyl. And in this senator's

615
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: report again this, there are a ton of internal documents

616
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 1: from the company from Insists itself describing how it works

617
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: to get over these barriers called prior authorizations. Subsist the

618
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: drug is meant for one thing and one thing alone,

619
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: for cancer related pain. If you want to get it

620
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: for anything else, you have to get prior authorization from

621
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: your doctor. So it turns out internally Insists had a

622
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: whole department within the company just for doing this, just

623
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: for getting these prior authorizations, and it was not above board, no, no, no.

624
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: The employees in this department would call uh pharmacy benefit managers,

625
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: who are in charge of these prior authorizations. You gotta

626
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: love the terms, yea, and they would pretend they were

627
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: with a doctor's office to get the sign off for

628
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: Subsist to be prescribed to a patient who did not

629
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: have cancer. Wow. So my question is is that not fraud?

630
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: I think it is. I would argue that it was

631
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: like the definition of fraud. It's illegal for us to

632
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: call a pharmacy and pretend to be a doctor's office. Yeah,

633
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: all right, is it? We see you Insists and then

634
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: there's there's another example, which is one that I think

635
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: really stood out to all of us. This company is

636
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: one of the most well known cases of we're going

637
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: to be a literate of pharmaceutical perfidy. Oh wait, word

638
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: of the day, perfidy? What does it mean? It's deceitful, untrustworthy, treacherous,

639
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: duplicitus perfecty, you're a word of the day. Okay, thank you,

640
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: Matt So. Purdue Pharma is a company that aggressively marketed oxycotton.

641
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: And they made it. They made it, and that's the

642
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: brand name. Is it hydro codone or is that vikiddin?

643
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: I think it's oxycodon. Isn't it oxycodone? Yes, you're you're correct,

644
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 1: Thank you um. Oxy Hunting, marketed by Perdue, was claimed

645
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: to be one of those things that was going to

646
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: be less addictive, right than heroin and have all same

647
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: great benefits, same great taste, far fewer calories. Very American

648
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: in the marketing, right, but they also claimed the company

649
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: claimed that they were unaware of the growing abuse of OxyContin,

650
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: which I think is also called in some some parts

651
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: of Appalachia at least it's called hillbilly heroin. And I

652
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: spoiled a little bit of this earlier, but let's get

653
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: into some details here. So it turns out that a

654
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: copy of a confidential Justice Department report surfaced, and it

655
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: shows that federal prosecutors investigating Purdue found that Purdue knew

656
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: about quote significant abuse of this drug, in particular in

657
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: the first few years after they introduced it, and then

658
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: they covered it up. They were aware that people would

659
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: do insane things to satisfy oxyconton. They saw that pills

660
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: were being sold illegally and then crushed and snorted or

661
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: cut with other stuff, you know, and that they would

662
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: be stolen from pharmacies, sometimes in violent robberies like drug

663
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: store cowboy style if you've ever seen that Gus fans

664
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: a movie, and then they would, Uh. Some doctors were

665
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: being charged with just selling prescriptions. Just come into my

666
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: pill mill where the address changes every few years, give

667
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: me fifty bucks, tell me what you want. It's despicable.

668
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: And guess what they did. They went on ahead, they

669
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: pushed for and they said no, no, no oxyconton. Guys,

670
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: this is less prone to addiction than other prescription opioids.

671
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: It's the better choice for you and your family. And

672
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: then family yeah, exactly. And today Produe maintains that it

673
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 1: had absolutely no knowledge of the abuse potential until two thousand,

674
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: again despite internal memos from the higher ups, multiple memos

675
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: and conversations that clearly contradict this. Can we go ahead

676
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: and just talk about the Sackler family, Yeah, lay it

677
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: on the it's just really fast. So the Sackler family,

678
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: ultimately they're the owners of Purdue. Yeah, there's they're about

679
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 1: twenty individuals that share the wealth of this one family

680
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: that owns Perdue. And it's it's fascinating. I think they

681
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: have a net income or a net family worth of

682
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: around thirteen billion dollars right now. Um, at least that's

683
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: according to Forbes. They're taking pillion dollars. But yes, they

684
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: they bought this this drug manufacturer a long time ago

685
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty two, the one that was just kind

686
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: of around it's fledgling young stop drug manufacturing two. And

687
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: they were making things again according to Forbes, like uh

688
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: earwax remover and laxative tonics, no doubt. Yeah you know

689
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: think well, I mean it's two they're making. They're making

690
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: prescripture drugs and stuff like that too. And I'm sure

691
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: mother's little helper. But yeah, but apparently they didn't have

692
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: really much going on, as you know, a way of

693
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: bringing money into the company until they made this drug, oxyconton,

694
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: And that's when they officially were making it or like

695
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: made it, and from that point on that was the thing.

696
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's literally the cash cow or the heroin

697
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 1: that they came upon more like oxy cachan. I mean,

698
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: there we go, yes, yes, worth it. Yeah, but they're

699
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: the number nineteen most wealthy family in the world right now,

700
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: insane and they made that money. They made the bulk

701
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:55,959
Speaker 1: of it off of this particular product. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry,

702
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: number nineteen in the in America, in the world. Here

703
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: we go. You know, it's still uh kudos to you,

704
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: uh Sacklers. If you want to dig a little deeper

705
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: into that, there's an article in The New Yorker with

706
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: a fabulous headline, It's the family that built an Empire

707
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 1: of pain. The Sackler Dynasty's ruthless marketing of pain killers

708
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: has generated billions of dollars and millions of addicts. That's

709
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: a great title and surprisingly accurate. Let's look at those

710
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: distributions statistics between two thousand seven and twenty sixteen, the

711
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: most widely prescribed opioid was actually it was an oxycodon,

712
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: not this time. No, it's hydrocode o vicoated, which you

713
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: might remember from uh, some of Eminem's earlier lyrics and

714
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: you know movies from the eighties. Yes, or you know,

715
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: just any of your relatives or friends who have been

716
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: prescribed it. Yeah. In twenty sixteen, six point two billion

717
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: hydrocodon and pills were distributed across this nation. Six point

718
00:46:54,960 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: two billion oxycodons, not even the UH or OxyContin. Rather,

719
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: it's not even the second most prevalent. The second most

720
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: prevalent is another version of oxy codeon, percocet that that

721
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: topped out at five billion tablets or pills distributed in

722
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: the US. Oh my god. People have been taking notice,

723
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: you know, not just not just us, not just a

724
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: couple of reporters here and there, but the government to

725
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 1: In two thousand and six, after a four year investigation,

726
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: the Justice Department and the prosecutors recommended that three top

727
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: executives at Perdue be indicted on felony charges, including conspiracy

728
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: to defraud the United States. Uh. And this would have

729
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: resulted in prison time if these people have been convicted

730
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 1: this case so that it just go ahead. That reminds

731
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: me of maybe the market crash two thousand seven, two thoight,

732
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: where all the guys in charge we're supposed to get

733
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: indicted and and charged and they'd be in trouble. Yeah,

734
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: I'm glad it am mind you that. So I'm hopefully

735
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: just just like that situation, all those guys went to prison,

736
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: right boy? Yeah, okay, So what had happened was officials

737
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: in the George W. H. Bush administration did not support

738
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:24,879
Speaker 1: this prosecutorial move. Instead, they settled the case in two

739
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: thousand seven. And we have a quote from a New

740
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: York Times article on on this debacle some would call it.

741
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: Produce Pharma pleaded guilty to a felony charge of miss

742
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 1: branding and oxyconton while marketing the drug by misrepresenting, among

743
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: other things, it's risk of addiction and potential to be abused.

744
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: So there were three executives, the company's chief executive, Michael Friedman,

745
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: it's top medical officer, Dr. Paul D. Goldenheim, and Mr Udell,

746
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 1: a gentleman who died in all of these guys pleaded

747
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: guilty to misdemeanor miss branding. Yeah, and solely held them

748
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: liable as produes Perdue Farmers responsible executives and did not

749
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: accuse them of any wrongdoing, and the company had to

750
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: pay along with the executives paid six hundred thirty four

751
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: point five million dollars and fines, and although they did

752
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,439
Speaker 1: not go to jail, they were required to perform get

753
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: this community service. Uh no, no member. By by the way,

754
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: the prosecutors did not accuse any Sackler family members of wrongdoing.

755
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: Let's just remember that. You know, six thirty four mill

756
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 1: seems like a ton of cash, but this family is

757
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: worth upwards of thirteen bill well and at the time

758
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: they were they were raking in about one point six

759
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: billion dollars a year with their farming industry. So it's

760
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: like with banking regulations. That just the cost of doing

761
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: business at this point, I mean it's a huge cost.

762
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: It's like over one third of your your cost of

763
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: doing business. But still but in those payments are negotiable

764
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: to it's essentially a layaway payment plan or they can

765
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: they can appeal that and see what they did, make

766
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: a settlement. That's the problem. So they are on the

767
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: hook somehow to pay it. But once that stuff gets

768
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: out of the news. You would be surprised how amenable

769
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,479
Speaker 1: both parties can be behind the scene. And yet Ben,

770
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: if I get a parking ticket, I got to pay

771
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 1: that thing in full. Yeah, or any kind of moving

772
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: violation or misdemean whatever it might be. Like, I've been

773
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: the court only for parking and traffic stuff, but you

774
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: have to pay it before you leave unless you give

775
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: some kind of crazy mitigating circumstances. You know your your

776
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: local government appreciates your business. Well, yeah, that's how it feels.

777
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: But it's so crazy to me thinking about the back

778
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: room scenarios that would go into scheduling payments for an

779
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: astronomical amount like this when the company can totally afford it.

780
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just just rubs me the wrong way. Sacklers.

781
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: And there's a pretty interesting anecdote, uh that I think

782
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: you foundell about protest with Purdue and the Sackler's. Yeah.

783
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about this on another episode previously,

784
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: but I think this is a really nice way to

785
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: tie this thing up. Um. Earlier this year, an art

786
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 1: gallery owner in Connecticut got arrested after he placed an

787
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: enormous sculpture of a heroin spoon. Um, you might have

788
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: seen this in movies. And so you take a spoon

789
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: and you bend it backwards on top of itself so

790
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 1: that you can take the powdered heroin. You place it

791
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: in the spoon and you you light a match or

792
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: a lighter or a candle and it boils it up

793
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: or burn you put water in it. It becomes an

794
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: injectable substance as opposed to a powder. And this notion

795
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: of being addicted, it's kind of an icon of addiction

796
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: to heroin. Very specifically. So this gallery owner um placed

797
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 1: an enormous sculpture of one of these heroin spoons right

798
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: outside in the walkway of the home office of Do

799
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: Pharma in Stanford, Connecticut. And yeah, like the owner of

800
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: the gallery was named Fernando Luis Alvarez, and he collaborated

801
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: with a Boston based artist named Dominique Esposito to commission

802
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: this piece. And he has a great quote here, Um,

803
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: Ben if you didn't mind, right, he told Time magazine,

804
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: the justice department in the country has to start putting

805
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: some of these people behind bars because they go on

806
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: and make a lot of money and then they pay

807
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: a fine and so be it as just not the

808
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: way it should be, and he got charged by the

809
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: police I think, yeah, for obstruction of free passage because

810
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't even in traffic, it was a footpath, and

811
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: also for interfering with the police after he refused to

812
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: remove the sculpture um and it sounds like he's going

813
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: to be charged, you know, whatever goes along with those

814
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,959
Speaker 1: misdemeanor violations, and also the cost of removing it because

815
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: it looks like it was like bolted down to the concrete,

816
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: so he's probably gonna have to pay some fees to

817
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: patch up the i'd walk where he put it in,

818
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 1: and removal of this thing would be no joke because

819
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: it's it's about ten and a half feet long, and

820
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: they had to you know, the city government I guess

821
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: or law enforcement had to remove it and also store it.

822
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: So you know, this guy is gonna get pretty hefty

823
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: fined for that. Whatever. However, we are a pretty resourceful team.

824
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 1: Conspiracy realist, if you're listening to this, you happen to

825
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: be in the area and you practice law, why not

826
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: accept his payment that gigantic sculpture, get the guy out

827
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: of out of court, and then plant it back sequel.

828
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: There's we're going a little bit long on today's episode

829
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: because first, because this is incredibly important and it doesn't

830
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 1: matter what your personal beliefs are. The numbers are real

831
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 1: and they have no opinion. There's something else we wanted

832
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: to mention that we were talking about with our super

833
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: producer Paul, who bought up a great point. This is

834
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: obviously not only is it not the first opium crisis

835
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: in the world, it's not the first drug crisis in

836
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: the US. In the eighties, there was the crack cocaine epidemic,

837
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: and the government handled it in a very different way.

838
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 1: They didn't They didn't say, let's sort of soft foot

839
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: around on a federal level, holding pharmaceutical companies responsible, right,

840
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: because all all the powerful legislation for this stuff, we

841
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: should say, is coming state by state. Uh, And we

842
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: can tell you a little bit more about that later.

843
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: But what they did instead in the War on drugs

844
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: was add things like mandatory sentencing, add things like three

845
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: strike laws for stuff relatively innocuous, like possession, not even

846
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 1: with intent to district, for the end user, for the

847
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: end user, not the supplier. Someone who was addicted to

848
00:54:53,600 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 1: smoking crack is probably not also pressuring lobbyists right to

849
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: to let the market cocaine more effectively. So one of

850
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: the huge differences here that you can also see in

851
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,280
Speaker 1: various news articles such as MPRS wise, the opioid epidemic

852
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly white. Some some of the uh really, I would

853
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 1: say revelatory radio research in this thing is tracing it

854
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 1: to the demographic of the end user. Right, Because crack

855
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 1: cocaine's user base was portrayed as predominantly people of color,

856
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: and the opioid epidemic is portrayed predominantly as white people.

857
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 1: It's a really I mean, it's an unfortunate point, and

858
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: it just see you can see how it's shaped the

859
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: entire both of the entire processes. One thing we do

860
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: have to point out here is that the crack cocaine

861
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: epidemic is in a legal substance solely peddled illegally. Right,

862
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: there's no there's no legal prescription version of cocaine or

863
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: crack cocaine um. And in this case, I think it's

864
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: kind of the the same point you're making, Ben. In

865
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: this case you've got somehow the same illegal substance changed

866
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: just enough that it can become a product that can

867
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: be sold legally. Yeah, I think that anything. The takeaway

868
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: here is is the is the money. Yeah. Well, there's

869
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 1: also there's also an interesting thing in this article that

870
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 1: that is profoundly disturbing, and it goes back into stereotypes.

871
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: Medical professionals have patients based on what they perceive the

872
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: patient's identity to be. Uh. There's a drug abuse expert

873
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: in this interview on NPR named Dr Andrew Clodny apologies

874
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:45,919
Speaker 1: if I'm mispronouncing your name, Doctor, and Colodni notes that

875
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: one thing he's seen is that doctors tend to prescribe

876
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: is a quote here, doctors tend to prescribe narcotics more

877
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: cautiously to their non white patients because it seems that

878
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: doctors themselves have stereotypes about addiction. So really, yeah, so

879
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: that that sort of racially based or motivated attitude on

880
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: the part of the medical professional maybe played a role.

881
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: To geez, there's an interesting analog or with something that's

882
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: going on in the news right now, Matt. You mentioned

883
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: that the difference between or one of the differences in

884
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: the way that the government handled it is the fact

885
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: that heroin and opiates, there's a legal version of it

886
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: that you can be prescribed. No analog exists for crack

887
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 1: cocaine or or cocaine what have you. Since they took

888
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: it out of they took ahead of coca cola and

889
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, Mommy's Little Helpers or whatever. Right um. And

890
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: I've talked about this before and it's just interesting because

891
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: it it really is an ongoing story. There is um.

892
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: What's what's kind of build as an herbal supplement called cretum.

893
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: It's a it's a round up um leaf from a

894
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: tree that's indigenous to like Malaysia or some somewhere Thailand.

895
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: That's that's correct. And it has been on the d

896
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: e a S Watch list for a long time now

897
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: because it has supposedly and a law analogous um sensations

898
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: and effects to opioids, and a lot of people take it.

899
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: There's a whole you know, it's it's it's a billion

900
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: dollar industry and there's all like an organization that is

901
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: like the advocate for this substance um and people to

902
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: say how they take it to get off of prescription

903
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 1: pain killers or to treat some of the things that

904
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: prescription kills would be you know, prescribed for and what

905
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: have you. And then of course there is also a

906
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: people take it for anxiety, what have you button, there's

907
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: also potential for abuse. But the latest is that the

908
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 1: d e A is finally really cracking down on it,

909
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: and it looks like they may make it federally illegal

910
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: um sooner rather than later. Schedule it. Schedule it, make

911
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: a schedule one. And you know how many deaths have

912
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: been attributed to this substance. And I don't know the

913
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: details about that, but how many deaths did we say

914
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: we're attributed to prescription pain killers? Thousands? So why is

915
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: the attitude so different? Why is this substance on the

916
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: chopping block, and yet the the others that we have

917
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: massive amounts of data that show it is in fact

918
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: deadly are not. I think it comes down to big

919
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: Pharma is piste that this legal substance that you can

920
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: buy in head shops and online or what have you,

921
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: is potentially taking away taking money out of their pocket. Yeah,

922
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: I want to, I want to. I think that's a

923
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: fantastic point. I want to go back though, and make

924
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: sure we don't miss the point with what this doctor

925
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: was saying about the way we handle these epidemics. And

926
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: I think they tie in because in the Doctor Coladney

927
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: was saying that in this epidemic where we do see

928
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: these legal analogs. Uh, He's saying, we're hearing from policymakers,

929
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: even conservative politicians, when they talked about the crisis, they

930
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: begin by saying, we cannot arrest our way out of this.

931
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: We can see that people whore addicted can access effective treatment.

932
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: We did not hear that during the crack cocaine epidemic.

933
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 1: It's good that we're hearing it now, but it's too

934
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 1: bad we didn't hear it then. And if cretum is

935
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: a possible way to help people in need, then it

936
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: seems just objectively, it seems pretty counterintuitive to remove that

937
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: from the conversation. Absolutely, I didn't mean to derail the

938
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: the racial tones to this comparison. I think that is

939
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: absolutely accurate. I think this is almost It just really

940
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: goes to show that there is not only that bias

941
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: in place in this discussion, but also that whole lining

942
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: of the pockets element that I think there's hand in hand. Yeah,

943
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: but here's the thing. Does does create um? Then do

944
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: you get cretum clinics like method clinics, And well, that's

945
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: here's what the d e A has to say about this.

946
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: One of their big beefs is that it's being supposedly

947
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: marketed for those things that I mentioned earlier, withdrawal from opiates, um,

948
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: treating things that would require a more professional medical opinion, etcetera. Supposedly,

949
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: they say it's being marketed that way. So it says, quote,

950
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: the FDA knows people are using creating to treat conditions

951
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: like pain, anxiety, and depression, which are serious medical conditions

952
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: that require proper diagnosis and oversight from a licensed healthcare provider.

953
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: We also know that the substances being actively market and

954
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: distributed for these purposes. Importantly, evidence shows that creative has

955
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: similar effects to narcotics like opioids and carry similar risks

956
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: of abuse, addiction, and in some cases death. But then

957
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 1: you have people that use it and talk about it

958
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: very openly that are part of these organizations that say

959
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: it's just not the same. That they were able to

960
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 1: use it because that a similar effect to narcotics, but

961
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: that they it literally allowed them to kind of integrate

962
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: back into society in a way that is weren't able

963
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: to do with the narcotics that they were on the

964
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: heavy doses of narcotics, so m d A, m D

965
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: m A and PTSD. Right, what we need is a

966
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: prescription version that we can sell for eighty dollars a

967
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: tablet and then it's good to go. No cures, only treatments.

968
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: You know, I know, we're wrapping up. We're going way

969
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: too long. We didn't even really get into the fentonyl

970
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 1: thing that's happening right now as part of the crisis,

971
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: Like the reason why so many people are dying right

972
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: now today while we're recording this because the heroin supply

973
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: that is illegal that people are getting rather than the

974
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: prescription drugs, is laced with this thing that's deadly in

975
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: very very very small doses. Yeah, can you tell us

976
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: a little bit about that. Well, it's just it's just

977
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,479
Speaker 1: a fact. Fentanyl is a drug that's being laced within

978
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: supplies of heroin coming into the United States, and it

979
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: maybe it's a whole different episode for another show where

980
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: we talk about like why is that happening? Is it

981
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: just to save cost on the manufacturer's side? How does

982
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: heroin get into the States? Yeah? Yeah, and and and

983
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: what is the difference between fentanyl and all this stuff?

984
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: And who would just who would be putting it in there.

985
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: There's a there's a photo in this article from stat

986
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 1: news dot com. The headline is why fententyl is deadier

987
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: than heroin in a single photo, and it's these two

988
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: inch tall vials. On the left is heroin and it

989
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: has about a centimeter of powder in the bottom of it,

990
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: and then the next to it is sentinel and it

991
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: just looks like residue. Like there's like maybe ten grains

992
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: that you can see. It looks like the leftovers in

993
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: like a sault shaker. And that's an equivalent dose. Yeah,

994
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 1: oh my god, certified. So maybe that is a future

995
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: episode for us. Today, we want to thank you for

996
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: thank you for taking this strange journey with us. It's

997
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: only the beginning of something that has been ongoing for

998
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, not just since maybe since the nineteen nineties

999
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: here in the States, but ongoing for thousands of years

1000
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: in terms of our species struggle with opium. So, in

1001
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: short answer for today's question, yes, the opium epidemic in

1002
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: the US is at least part really the result of

1003
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: an active and very successful conspiracy on the part of

1004
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies, some of them, not all of them, to

1005
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: twist the law or circumvented entirely and push these painkillers

1006
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:15,120
Speaker 1: on innocent patients. To biggest factors in this are private

1007
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: partnerships with politicians, with holding or suppressing of important information,

1008
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: and nowadays multiple companies claim they are in fact combating

1009
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 1: the crisis they or companies like them, did play a

1010
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 1: role in creating. None of these companies to date have

1011
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: acknowledged that they played this role, even when internal memos

1012
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: show that they consciously did so. It's pretty easy to

1013
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 1: see how critics don't trust these statements. Currently, the attorneys

1014
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: general of forty one different U. S States, inspired by

1015
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: aggressive legislation from Ohio, are joining forces to investigate these companies.

1016
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: The ultimate goal of these lawsuits is to force the

1017
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: manufacturers to change their marketing tactics offer better warnings as

1018
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 1: how addictive these things can be. So far, all of

1019
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: these cases have been civil and not criminal, and well, gosh,

1020
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: we have more. As a final As a final word,

1021
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. What are the consequences

1022
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 1: for these companies? What should they be? How can societies

1023
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: and grips of these epidemics hope to combat them? The

1024
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,439
Speaker 1: answers have a have a wide range of approach and plausibility,

1025
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: but one thing is for sure. At the rate people

1026
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: who are overdosing here, at least in our neck of

1027
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 1: the Global Woods, are projected, five hundred thousand Americans could

1028
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: die from opioid misuse in the next ten years. If

1029
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: you are one of the millions of Americans struggling within

1030
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: an addiction to opioid drugs, please reach out directly to

1031
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: one of the many free treatment centers in your area.

1032
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: There are numbers you can call. We guarantee you are

1033
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: worth it, and your time is worth it. At the

1034
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: time of your loved ones is worth it as well.

1035
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: We'd also like to hear your story, and we promise

1036
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: we won't share it unless you give us the okay

1037
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: to do so. So write to us. We're on Instagram

1038
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: and Facebook and Twitter. Those are pretty easy social media things.

1039
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: You can get ahold of us. You can call us

1040
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: and leave a message if you want to do that,

1041
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: we can play it on the show. We're not just

1042
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: depending on what you'd like us to do with it.

1043
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: Just mention it. Have we played one yet? No, we

1044
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,439
Speaker 1: haven't played one yet. We need to do it, well,

1045
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: we will. You can call one eight three three st

1046
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 1: d w y t K if you want to try

1047
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: that out, and if if you don't want to do that,

1048
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: you can go ahead and send us an email. We

1049
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 1: are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com