1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Justice Clarence Thomas is no stranger to being maligned by 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: the left. He faced one of the nastiest and most 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: evil character assassinations during his confirmation hearing. 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 2: He famously said this about it. Listen, I think that 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 2: this today is a travel steer. 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 3: I think that it is disgusting. I think that this 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 3: hearing should never occur in America. I think something is 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 3: dreadfully wrong with this country when any person, any person 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 3: in this free country would be subjected to this. 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 4: This is a circus. 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: It's a national. 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 3: Disgrace, and from my standpoint as of a black American, 13 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 3: as far as I'm concerned, it is a high attack lynching. 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: He is not once again on the receiving end of 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: attacks from the left. This time they are questioning his 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: financial disclosures. It also comes at a time when other 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: conservative justice are under attack by the media as well. 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: This is clearly an orchestrated, coordinated attack to delegitimize the 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. So who's behind this smear of conservative justices 20 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: and what exactly are they trying to accomplish. Carrie Severino, 21 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: president of JCN and the author of Justice on Trial, joins. 22 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: Me to get to the BOTB of it. 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: Stay tuned, Carrie, It's such an honor to have you 24 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: on the show. 25 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: I've worked in DC or did. 26 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: I no longer work in DC, but did work in 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: politics long enough to know a coordinated attack when I 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: see one. We've seen hits recently on Justice Clarence Thomas 29 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: Gorsuch Roberts. 30 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: This is coordinated, is it not? 31 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's pretty obvious. Again, if this 32 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 5: has all the hallmarks of that. Suddenly, out of the 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 5: blue we go from zero to sixty on people doing 34 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 5: deep dives and going through with a fine tooth. Come 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 5: the financial files of not every justice, but a select justices, 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 5: and wouldn't you know it's all the conservative justices. And 37 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 5: then there's this, you know, staged release of the opinions. 38 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 5: And it's even interesting, you know, things like Justice Chief 39 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 5: Justice Roberts is invited to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee, 40 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 5: which in itself is very unusual. 41 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 4: They want to try to question the Chief. 42 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 5: Justice, and then as soon as he declines the next 43 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 5: day there's a piece about his wife and suggesting that, 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 5: you know that her job as a legal recruiter or 45 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 5: somehow improper. So it's all of these things are just 46 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 5: very clearly targeting the conservative justices in the court, and 47 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 5: they're clearly I think, there to try to intimidate the 48 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 5: justices saying, hey, if you don't follow the direction that 49 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 5: we want, we finally don't have a court that is 50 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 5: just doing the bidding of the left. Now we're going 51 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 5: to come after you, and we're going to try these 52 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 5: personal attacks to delegitimize those justices and or remove them 53 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 5: from the court or from the cases. 54 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 2: Why now do you think I think it's you. 55 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 5: Know, coincidence that we're seeing this at the same time 56 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 5: as we are seeing the first time in living memory 57 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 5: that we have a court that has a majority of 58 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 5: originalist justices. For again, all of living memory, we've had 59 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 5: a court that has been effectively willing to give the 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 5: left what it wants on some of the major issues 61 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 5: that come before it. Issues in some cases there are 62 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 5: the ones that should be decided in the political realm, 63 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 5: but that they can't get done what they want to, 64 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 5: and so then they are relying on the court to 65 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 5: play back up and kind of get things over the 66 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 5: finish line they couldn't get done legislatively and trying to 67 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 5: open the doors for liberal policies to be enacted via 68 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 5: the court. We have a court that's not playing that game. 69 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 5: Their job is to look at the constitution and what 70 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 5: the law says. 71 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 4: They know it. 72 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 5: And so as soon as you have a court that 73 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 5: isn't playing by their game, they start attacking the court 74 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 5: itself because they're so frustrated to see justices whose first 75 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 5: duty is not to trying to achieve these liberal policy 76 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 5: goals but relate to the constitution and the rule of law. 77 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: Now, we've seen attacks on the Supreme Court before, you know, 78 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: throughout history. Are these attacks different than what we've seen before. 79 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 5: There have been examples in history where similar types of 80 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 5: things have happened. I think we certainly have a focus 81 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 5: on it more than other times. I'm thinking of, you know, 82 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 5: the last big time we saw this that comes to 83 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 5: mind might be when President Franklin Delan Roosevelt was really 84 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 5: frustrated with the Court because he's enacting all of his 85 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 5: you know, New Deal programs. 86 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 4: The court was saying, hey, you know, we think some of. 87 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 5: These have real constitutional problems, and he's going, how can 88 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 5: I get rid of these justices? 89 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 4: And that's when he proposed for. 90 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 5: The first time, you know again that I can think 91 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 5: of just a purely political thing saying let's pack the court, 92 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 5: let's add justices, so that I, as the president, get 93 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 5: to pick more of these justices to shift the direction 94 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 5: the court is going. And even with a overwhelming majority 95 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 5: and a huge mandate from the Democratic controlled Congress, he 96 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 5: couldn't get that done because they said that's. 97 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 4: Beyond the pale. 98 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 5: So we're seeing attacks like that that failed so spectacularly 99 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 5: in nineteen thirty seven being brought back now, but additional 100 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 5: things as well, so that we're getting these personal attacks 101 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 5: on the justices. I think we saw hints of this 102 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 5: in Justice Thomas's confirmation in nineteen ninety, in the Justice 103 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 5: Kavanaugh confirmation in twenty eighteen, So all of these are 104 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 5: sort of just increasing in volume and increasing in focus, 105 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 5: and we're seeing things that I don't know have ever 106 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 5: happened in American history, like the dosing of the justices. 107 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 5: Not just their homes, which is bad enough, but often 108 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 5: they're places of worship, the places their children go to school, 109 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 5: and that additional threat level, so it's not just an 110 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 5: attack on them personally their reputation, but even physically. And 111 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 5: we saw, of course an attempted assassination that we now 112 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 5: know was and just targeting Justice Kavanaugh, but actually he 113 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 5: was going to try to take out three justices that 114 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 5: night if he was able to. So some of those 115 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 5: things really are new. And to have the White House 116 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 5: and Democratic members of the Senate really encouraging that type 117 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 5: of behavior makes it takes it again to the next 118 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 5: level into something that I don't know that we've ever 119 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 5: seen before. 120 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: To that point. 121 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you had Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer on 122 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court steps in March of twenty twenty about 123 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: Justices Gorsage in Kavanaugh saying that they had released the whirlwind, 124 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: that they would pay the price if they continue to 125 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: make awful decisions. And you had Sheldon white House not 126 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: too long ago also attacked the Supreme Court saying it 127 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: is not well, the people know it, perhaps the Court 128 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: can heal itself, or basically making the threat that they'll 129 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: have to do something about it. So just overt verbal threats, 130 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: even from our Democrat leaders. 131 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 5: Absolutely, it's really outrageous to see that. And then you 132 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 5: they have the guts to say, wow, there's something wrong, 133 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 5: because for some reason, the American people believe there's an 134 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 5: appearance of improprietary. They have record low levels of confidence. 135 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 4: In the Supreme Court, and you're going, it's because you 136 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 4: have been. 137 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 5: And now we're moving into several years of a focused 138 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 5: campaign trying to tell the American people that the Court 139 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 5: is acting politically and is not behaving properly, which is 140 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 5: just lies. So they're trying to find they're creating the 141 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 5: problem itself of American people not trusting the Court really 142 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 5: to provide the excuse that they would need to do 143 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 5: things like pack the court, to do things like trying 144 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 5: to you know, they're talks about trying to even add 145 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 5: term limits on justices or create new ethical standards that 146 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 5: really we know are just a form of them trying 147 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 5: to bully the justices because any of these ethical concerns 148 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 5: is not something that's being applied even handedly. They're basically 149 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 5: inventing new ethic standards out of whole cloth, not people 150 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 5: haven't run a foul of the actual ethic standards that 151 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 5: are out there. They're inventing new standards, but they're only 152 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 5: inventing them for a subset of the justices. So all 153 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 5: of these things, they're really targeting the justices that they 154 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 5: know we're going to get attacked in the media and 155 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 5: get attacked by these same unscrupulous members of Congress. 156 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: What are those duties look like for the Supreme Court 157 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: justices to disclose finances? 158 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: You know, what does that look like? 159 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: And are any of these allegations that have been made 160 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: against you know, Thomas or some of the other justices, 161 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: do any of these run a foul to what their 162 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: responsibility is? 163 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 4: What we have seid, So justices do have. 164 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 5: There's one fallacy that's out there that's again intentional misrepresentation, 165 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 5: suggesting that while it's just the wild west of the 166 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 5: Supreme Court, they can do whatever the heck they want, 167 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 5: there's nothing that governs it. That's not true. They do 168 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 5: have annual disclosures they have to file. They do have 169 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 5: a recusal statutes that do govern them and that they follow, 170 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 5: and that they consult each other in terms of determining, Okay, 171 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 5: at what point should I recuse in this case type 172 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 5: case or that type of case. So there absolutely are 173 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 5: standards that the justices are following. Now are they followed 174 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 5: perfectly every time? 175 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 4: No? But what we're seeing here is nitpicking on errors. 176 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 5: Just as if any one of us, if you had 177 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 5: someone in fact not just someone, a team of someone's, 178 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 5: a team of highly financed from media, from dark money 179 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 5: groups in the left wing going through your tax returns, 180 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 5: for example, and said with a fine tooth comb, I 181 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 5: bet they could find a typo or two. 182 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 4: Right. 183 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 5: Does that mean that you are somehow maliciously doing these things? No, 184 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 5: it's just a complicated form. So what we've seen historically 185 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 5: is absolutely there are justices who have forgotten to disclose 186 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 5: things or incorrectly disclose things, but those justices. 187 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 4: Actually do run the gamut. 188 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 5: Justice Ginsberg, for example, sat on dozens of cases inadvertently 189 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 5: in which her husband owned stock. Now, normally that would 190 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 5: be just an easy given if you or your spouse 191 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 5: owned stock and something you have to recuse. And I 192 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 5: don't think at all that for a minute she was 193 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 5: voting differently in those cases because her husband owned stock. 194 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 4: I don't think she knew or she would have recused herself. 195 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 5: But it's that type of thing that when it happens 196 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 5: to a left wing justice or justice Jackson just neglected 197 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 5: to disclose certain aspects of her income, her husband's medical 198 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 5: malpractice work that she just forgotten then later amended her filings, 199 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 5: and that's viewed as kind of like, oh, okay, they 200 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 5: just amended this great, and I think that's right. This 201 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 5: wasn't malicious, there wasn't real corruption. But those same levels 202 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 5: of things on the right are being treated as if 203 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 5: there is a corrupt mafia running the institution and that 204 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 5: these justices are up for sale, which is patently false. 205 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 5: And even when the Senate Judiciary Committee had a hearing 206 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 5: last week talking about this, even the liberal witnesses on 207 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 5: their side, after making all of these suggestions and kind 208 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 5: of eyebrow raising and suggesting and inferring that these justices 209 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 5: are up for sale, when they were directly asked, are 210 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 5: you wait, who are you saying has sold their votes? 211 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 4: Who are you saying is actually corrupt the guys? Oh 212 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 4: I didn't. I know, I wouldn't. 213 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 5: I wouldn't actually accuse them because that would be slanderous. 214 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 4: I mean, that's not what's happening. 215 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 5: It's people trying to exploit minor issues or things that 216 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 5: they're saying, Hey, I wish the diskills the rules were different. 217 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 5: You follow the rules, but I think you should disclose more. Okay, 218 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 5: we can talk about that, but don't pretend that people 219 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 5: who follow the rules now somehow we're doing something inappropriate 220 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 5: when that's not true. 221 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break more with Carrie Savarino 222 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: on the other side, If you look at Joe Biden, 223 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: it seems like some of the most discrediting and some 224 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: of the biggest attacks on Supreme Court nominees or the 225 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: Supreme Court itself have come under his watch. 226 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: I mean, you look at right now. He's part of 227 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: the United States. 228 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: He's at the helm of two of the nastiest Supreme 229 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: Court confirmation hearings, whether it was Clarence Thomas or Robert Borke. 230 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 2: So, I mean, how much does that have to do 231 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: with it? Oh? 232 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean Biden has been part of the ringleader 233 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 5: of this crazy judicial intimidation circus from day one. 234 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 4: I mean he was around during the Bork era. Eve. 235 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 5: I mean this is like very early on in this process. 236 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 5: He was leading the Judiciary Committee during the Thomas hearings. 237 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 5: He he is definitely part of the problem, and we're 238 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 5: seeing under his administration things like him going from saying 239 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 5: court packing is a bonehead idea, which was correct, that's 240 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 5: what he said in nineteen eighty two, to then saying, actually, 241 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 5: maybe it's something we should consider it. Well, we should 242 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 5: consider it when maybe it gives me extra people to 243 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 5: put on the court. 244 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 4: Right, It's a very clear shift there. 245 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 5: You've seen him, you know, say one thing about Justice Thomas, 246 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 5: don't worry. I realize these charges are you know, unfounded, 247 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 5: and then going and helping lead the three wing circus 248 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 5: against him during his confirmation hearings. 249 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 4: He is willing to play multiple sides of it. 250 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 5: You know, when Justice were being docksed again and people 251 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 5: are making threats against them, you had his spokeswoman saying, 252 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 5: you know, we wish really support people's First Amendment rights 253 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 5: and we're proud of a maybe American right to protest. 254 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 5: What is the message being sent when people are violating 255 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 5: federal law by trying to intimidate the justices regarding an 256 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 5: active case, because they were doing this intentionally to try 257 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 5: to change the justice's vote on the Dobbs opinion last year. 258 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 5: They basically said, we support this, we endorse this, and 259 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 5: that's that is a huge message that's being sent by 260 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 5: this administration. And I think the bottom line is he's 261 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 5: willing to say and do whatever it is to get 262 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 5: more power, including more power over the Supreme Court. 263 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 264 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to talk about ethics, Joe 265 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: Biden has none. And you know, if there's any question 266 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: that this isn't coordinated, you had mentioned the Senate Judiciaries 267 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: Committee hearing called Supreme Court Ethics reform after these articles 268 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: had surfaced, so you know it clearly is this coordinated attempt? 269 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: You know, Carrie, from your perspective, obviously you follow this 270 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: closer than anyone in the Supreme Court. Has this impacted 271 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: any of the decision making these threats the you know, 272 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: people outside of the justices' homes, or even assassination attempt 273 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: Have you noticed has it been working, this attimidation? 274 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 4: You know, I think it definitely. It clearly didn't. 275 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 5: In the case of the Dobbs decision, right, we saw 276 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 5: a decision that was leaked May second last year, and 277 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 5: then came out in substantially the same form at the 278 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 5: end of June June twenty fourth, and they I think 279 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 5: they were consciously. 280 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 4: Saying we are not going to bow to this pressure. 281 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 5: Were there were some changes that were just not changes, 282 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 5: additions addressing concerns brought up by the dissent, for example, 283 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 5: that wasn't available at the time, but they basically said, no, 284 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 5: we are not changing our position and I think that's 285 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 5: what the Court has been doing. 286 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 4: Now. 287 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 5: One thing that I wonder is is this slowing down 288 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 5: their work. We've seen this court this term has been 289 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 5: one of the slowest release of opinions. We have tons 290 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 5: of opinions still to come out, and there's really just 291 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 5: over a month left. And maybe some of the extra 292 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 5: security protocols and the extra difficulty of knowing who they 293 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 5: can trust, even internally, maybe I think that could be 294 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 5: slowing down the ability to work. I think there has 295 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 5: to be trust rebuilt within the court elf amongst each other, 296 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 5: amongst the clerks and the staff, and I think that 297 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 5: is a real shame and a tragedy. I worry that 298 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 5: it could influence justices saying, hey, this is you know, 299 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 5: there's a whole lot of really important issues that are 300 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 5: always coming up. I hope they're not looking at cases 301 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 5: going wow, that is an issue that in a vacuum, 302 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 5: I would say the Court has to address, but we 303 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 5: just don't need any more pressure this year. I hope 304 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 5: that's not happening. But we know one hundred percent that 305 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 5: is the goal of all of this. They know that, 306 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 5: for example, these threats against Justice Thomas, like trying to 307 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 5: get him to move. Come on, nobody can move Justice 308 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 5: Thomas from what he knows is the right thing mandated 309 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 5: the content by the Constitution. That man has a spine 310 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 5: of steel. But I think they're trying to hope to 311 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 5: influence the other justices and say, maybe we just want 312 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 5: to stay a little farther back here. 313 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 4: I don't think that has worked, but I want I 314 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 4: think we need to be. 315 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 5: Really out there ensuring that it doesn't have a chance 316 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 5: to work, and that people shouldn't be keeping this kind 317 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 5: of pressure up because no one, for the sake of 318 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 5: doing their job and enforcing the Constitution should have to 319 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 5: sacrifice their personal privacy and the safety of themselves and 320 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 5: their family. 321 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: Well, and you know, not many people have the kind 322 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: of integrity Justice Clarence does, or can face the sort 323 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: of character assassination that he faced, you know, even from 324 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: the beginning during his confirmation hearings up until you know 325 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: this point. Not that many people are that rock ribbed 326 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: and just strong in their beliefs to be able to 327 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: withstand that kind of slander. 328 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 329 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 5: Absolutely, And I think it has so many layers to 330 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 5: it because they love to make his life miserable. I 331 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 5: I feel like that's bonus points for them, but it 332 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 5: sends a message to other judges, justices. It sends a 333 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 5: message to other judges who might one day think, Okay, 334 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 5: I could theoretically be aligned for the Supreme Court. 335 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 4: Do I want that position? 336 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: You know? 337 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 5: Do I want to put my family and my own 338 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 5: reputation in life through the ringer or that it's going 339 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 5: to be to in order to do that. And again, 340 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 5: that shouldn't be part of the calculus. We want our 341 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 5: best men women on the bench to want this job 342 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 5: and not to say, Okay, I'm going to take this 343 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 5: knowing that I'm going to have to like sacrifice myself. 344 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 4: On the altar of the Constitution. This isn't that. 345 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 5: That shouldn't be the cost we are demanding, and we 346 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 5: should be requiring our representatives, especially you think, gosh, these senators, 347 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 5: these supposed to be representing American people. I know there 348 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,959 Speaker 5: are radicals out there who really do want the Court intimidated, 349 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 5: but I don't think that's where most of America is. 350 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 5: And I think that those people who are part of 351 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 5: this process ought to be held to account, and the 352 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 5: American people should stand up, just like it did in 353 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 5: nineteen thirty seven. To say, you know what, Okay, politics 354 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 5: is politics, and maybe I don't agree with some of 355 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 5: the decisions the Court makes, but no one should be 356 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 5: trying to undermine the institution of the Court the way 357 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 5: that they are and trying to drag the good names 358 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 5: of our justices through the mud. 359 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: That's really the point in the direction all this is heading. 360 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: As you pointed that, you know, good candidates might be like, hey, 361 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: this isn't worth it. You know, I don't want to 362 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: have to go through this. I mean, that's why they're 363 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: doing this to Trump as well. Whey they've tried to 364 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: destroy his life so that future Republican candidates are like, 365 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: you know what, I just this isn't worth it. I 366 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: don't want to drag my family through the mud. I 367 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: don't drag myself through the mud. And you know, it's 368 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: the intimidation fact that they're intentionally trying to do. I 369 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: do worry that it'll it'll work in the future. I'm 370 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: sure people have probably given pause to stick their knock 371 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: out there in these various positions. 372 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 5: This is not the way our American system of the 373 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 5: rule of law should operate. The reason our Constitution gave 374 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 5: justicees life tenure was so that they would be able 375 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 5: to have an independent judgment, that they wouldn't have to 376 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 5: rule on cases thinking, Okay, I want to make this 377 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 5: person mad because I might need to ask them for 378 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 5: a job later. I don't want to alienate this industry 379 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 5: or this you know, this party because I'm going to 380 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 5: be back in the loop again. 381 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 4: Sometimes they said, you know, we want you off the table. 382 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 4: You are just. 383 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 5: Focusing on doing what's right as a matter of law. 384 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 5: So our constitution realized, we want people to be independent 385 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 5: thinker and not be prone to having to make people happy. 386 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:05,959 Speaker 4: Here's the challenge. 387 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 5: They're still trying to use whatever lovers of power they can, 388 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 5: and it's increasingly people are saying the quiet part out loud, 389 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 5: and you've got people on the left tweeting about and 390 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 5: writing about how yeah, the goal should be to try 391 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 5: to make them worried, either for their safety or for 392 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 5: their for their good name, we should our goal should 393 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 5: be to cancel people and drum them out of polite society. 394 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 5: They shouldn't be allowed to speak at a law school, 395 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 5: go out to dinner, you know, you name it, because 396 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 5: we want them to be punished for their positions. That 397 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 5: is contrary to our constitution envisions that role of trying 398 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 5: to have someone independent and I think the justice as 399 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 5: we do have are going to, you know, still try 400 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 5: to stay the course and stay firm, but we should 401 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 5: not make that harder for them in the process. We 402 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 5: want a our court to be free of that pressure. 403 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 5: And just think about it, particularly respect to the threats 404 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 5: to security. And now you have the senators who are 405 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 5: again just they said, well, if if you're not going 406 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 5: to adopt the ethics code that we want, maybe we'll 407 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 5: just cut your funding. And oh, coincidentally, we're going to 408 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 5: cut it the same amount of the funding that you're 409 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 5: asking for security increases for the court. 410 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 4: You know why they need the security increases because of 411 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 4: this intimidation campaign. 412 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 5: And so it's almost making this direct link of if 413 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 5: you don't do what we want, we're going to put 414 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 5: your security at risk. That is the kind of intimidation 415 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 5: and you know, problems with separation of powers. 416 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 4: I might expect somewhere like of Venezuela. 417 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 5: I might expect that in Cuba, threats from you know, 418 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 5: the administration or from the legislature to the court. If 419 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 5: you don't know what we want, your safety is at risk. 420 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 5: We might not be able to protect you. That's not 421 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 5: what I would expect in the United States of America. 422 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 5: We want our justices to be making their decisions based 423 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 5: on what they know to be right according to the 424 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 5: rule of law, their best estimate of that, their best understanding, 425 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 5: and what the law requires, not based on I am 426 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 5: concerned for what will happen to me personally if I 427 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 5: rule one way or the other. 428 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: Although we're very increasingly looking like a different country than 429 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: or founding fathers had envisioned, and unfortunately looking you know, 430 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: closer to Venezuela or China or some of these other 431 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: authoritarian nations in a variety of ways. You'd mentioned some 432 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: of the intimidation. I mean, we saw senators face this 433 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: as well during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing. I mean, I 434 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: know that I got incredibly fired up during that because 435 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: not only is it wrong to smear an innocent man, 436 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: which he clearly was, and it was very clear that 437 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: Christine Ford was lying, but you know, we had senators 438 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: face death threats, have to have security during that time 439 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: period as well, I mean, they their lives were threatened. 440 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, and some of this comes from the over the 441 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 5: hyper rhetoric about these things. People saying, oh my gosh, 442 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 5: these justices are trying to end democracy as we know it. 443 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 5: So you kind of amp this up. And look, we 444 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 5: know that even in terms of some of the people 445 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 5: who are doing these protests or even the ones in 446 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 5: front of their homes, thank god, the vast majority of 447 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 5: the people aren't actually violent. 448 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 4: But we also know there are crazy people out there. 449 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 5: When you see this kind of rhetoric and you and 450 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 5: you tell these lies about people, is it surprising that 451 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 5: you do get every once in a while a crazy 452 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 5: person who then you know, packs his bags, puts in 453 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 5: the zip ties and the gun and the knife and 454 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 5: the everything, and flies across the country hoping to kill 455 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 5: a justice. 456 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 4: That is, you know, it is really reckless. 457 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 5: And to have, as we've talked about before, members of 458 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 5: the Senate who are throwing these threats out there and 459 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 5: who are telling lies, saying that these justices are actually 460 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 5: just you know, bought and paid for and this is 461 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 5: that's that is you know, criminal, and it's and it's 462 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 5: incredibly destructive to our national fabric to be trying to 463 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 5: seed this, you know, these lies into the American people. 464 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 5: We should be trying to encourage them to support the justices, 465 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 5: and if you have arguments you want to make before 466 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 5: the court, great, there are ways to do that. That's 467 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 5: why we have an adversary process. There's always strong arguments 468 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 5: on both sides of these important cases. Make your arguments 469 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 5: to the justices in the courtroom. Don't try to make 470 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 5: it to them with threats on. 471 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 4: Their front lawn. 472 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: Quick break and then more on the effort to delegitimize 473 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. 474 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 2: It's not the rule of law under attack. 475 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I think most conservatives at least would say 476 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: that we have an unequal application of the law. If 477 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: you look at the way you know, the January sixth 478 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: defendants are being treated versus you know, the George Floyd rioters, 479 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: or you look at what they've done to pro lafers 480 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: in America, well seemingly disinterested in fighting people who are 481 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: firebombing pregnancy centers, or the treatment of Hillary Clinton versus 482 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: the treatment of Trump people. You know, like, there's just 483 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: so many examples of this broader sentiment that there is 484 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: no equal application of the law anymore, and it is 485 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: being weaponized against us. 486 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, that is why the Supreme Court is 487 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 5: so important to have in there as a check because 488 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 5: there are, and you know, unfortunately there's in any system. 489 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 5: This is why we have the constitutional system we do, 490 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 5: because the founders new there is that temptation. Anytime you 491 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 5: put a human being with this level of authority, there's 492 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 5: going to be the temptation to say, weaponize it against 493 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 5: your political enemies and not against your friends. This is why, 494 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 5: for example, the First Amendment is supposed to be so 495 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 5: strictly you know, equal viewpoint neutral. So you don't have 496 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 5: the government saying some speech is more equal than others. Right, 497 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 5: We're to let some. 498 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 4: People speak, but not others. 499 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 5: We need to be able to have this apply across 500 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 5: the board, and so the Supreme Court's role is often 501 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,239 Speaker 5: to step in and say, okay, wait a minute. You know, 502 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 5: I might even agree with what these people are saying, 503 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 5: but I'm not going to allow them to weaponize the government. 504 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 5: And we need to ensure that due process is being done, 505 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 5: the law is being fairly applied, or you know, you 506 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 5: fill in the blank issue that we're seeing happen. One 507 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 5: of the key factors of a rule of law is 508 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 5: that laws of the same laws apply to people regardless 509 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 5: of whether you agree or disagree, regardless of whether they 510 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,719 Speaker 5: are a minority group or a majority group. And I think, unfortunately, 511 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 5: there's a lot of aspects of our society that are 512 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 5: really calling that into question right now, the idea of 513 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 5: even handedness, whether it's the First Amendment and free speech 514 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 5: or freedom of religion, or even the Fourteenth Amendment and 515 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 5: equal protection. 516 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 4: Hey, well some races are more equal than others. 517 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 5: Nope, Nope, that's not that's not what the fourteenth the 518 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 5: Mement says. And you know, regardless of whether you say, well, 519 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 5: I've got benign reasons for applying it this way because 520 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 5: I think I'm trying to just help good groups. 521 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 4: You're okay, great, but that's again, that's not the rule 522 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 4: of law. 523 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 5: A rule of law means we have to apply all 524 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 5: of these things even handedly and equally across the board. 525 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 5: So I think that's why it's so important to have 526 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 5: a court that can be independent and can provide that 527 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 5: check when the elected branches aren't maybe don't follow their 528 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 5: better angels in these cases, and are allowing themselves to 529 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 5: weaponize our system. 530 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: I understand that point. 531 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: I guess what concerns me is, you know, we live 532 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: in a country where it seems like, you know, some 533 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: percentage of the country believes in the Constitution adheres to 534 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: the Constitution, while the other percentage they want to set 535 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: it on fire. 536 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 5: Some of these really outspoken people on the left, you've 537 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 5: heard even again, they're saying the quiet parwer out loud. 538 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 5: It's explicitly saying, hey, the Constitution is trash and you 539 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 5: know it needs to be changed or gotten rid of, 540 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 5: and that is really dangerous. I think there's people who 541 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 5: are treating the Constitution as a speed bump in terms 542 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 5: of getting to where they want to go, rather than 543 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,479 Speaker 5: actually recognizing that the values it represents are important. And 544 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 5: you know that can happen on either side, and there 545 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 5: are some people in the extremes on either side who 546 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 5: who forget that these protections are here to protect all 547 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 5: of us and we need to hold them even handedly. 548 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 5: I think the challenge is trying to I do think 549 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 5: most Americans, even those on the on you know, on 550 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 5: the left where people are some people are saying the 551 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 5: Constitution needs to be shifted or changed if it's getting 552 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 5: in the way of us enacting the policies we want. 553 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 5: I think at the end of the day, most people 554 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 5: do respect that, and I think this is part of 555 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 5: the reason it's so important to make sure that we 556 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 5: are actually teaching real civics to our kids, because these 557 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 5: are such important lessons that, hey, even if we disagree 558 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 5: on how to get to whatever result, we have to 559 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 5: respect our constitutional system and the process. And I'm not 560 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 5: sure that's being taught to our kids the way it 561 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 5: was taught when when we were in school. So I 562 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 5: think it's it's so important for them to learn that 563 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 5: those values are core to our system and into it 564 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 5: being able to function. And that's what allows us then 565 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 5: to talk to our neighbors to try to, you know, 566 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 5: adamantly argue for our opinions about the best policies while recognizing, 567 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 5: you know, the the that their opinions actually get get 568 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 5: to be heard in the public as well. That's that 569 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 5: is not appreciated as well as should be nowadays. And 570 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 5: I am hoping that we can do our best to 571 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 5: reignite these values, because I do think that's what most 572 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 5: people want at the end of the day, if they 573 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 5: can stop and really think through the implications of these 574 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 5: different systems. 575 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: I do think it's with intention that kids are not 576 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: being taught some of these things, because a dumb society 577 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: is more easily indoctrinated. And I think that's the intention 578 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: of what's happening in a lot of our schools these days. 579 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: And to your point, it does seem like, you know, 580 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: these attacks have been going on for a long time, 581 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: but it's just or more overt now. I mean, there's 582 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: no they're they're saying the quiet part out loud. There's 583 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: no intention anymore to try. 584 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: To conceal the attacks. It's just out in the open. 585 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 586 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 5: In some ways it makes it easier because it's like, Wow, 587 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 5: I don't have to tell you that this is their 588 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 5: goal because they're saying it right. But I hope that 589 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 5: maybe some people that'll give some people pause and say, wait, 590 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 5: is that is that really how I want to live? 591 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 5: Is that really the society that I want my children 592 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 5: growing up in. I just hope that we can turn 593 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 5: that around and remind people of those key foundational values 594 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 5: before it's too late, before we lose them. 595 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: Why do you think they haven't been able to find 596 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: the dobs leaker? It doesn't seem like that would be 597 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: that hard to be able to track the individual down. 598 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting. 599 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 5: Justice Alito just gave an interview in which he suggested 600 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 5: that he pretty much knows who the Dobbs leaker is, 601 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 5: and if he knows, I'm sure all the justices have 602 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 5: a pretty good idea. I think their challenge is they 603 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 5: don't have enough evidence to prove it to enough level 604 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 5: that they would be able to, consistent with due process, 605 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 5: actually publicize that person's name or really bring them to justice, 606 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 5: because we know that they have committed it multiple I'm 607 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 5: sure different potentially criminal offenses by leaking that. And it's 608 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 5: interesting when the Marshall, the US Marshals gave the report 609 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 5: on it, they listed all of the different statutes that 610 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 5: were potentially violated by this leaker. So this is someone 611 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 5: who in order to be really brought to justice, they're 612 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 5: going to need an extra level of proof against I think. 613 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 5: I think my guess is that not enough was done 614 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 5: quickly enough. I think what we've seen from some of 615 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 5: the marshals report and the information out there is that 616 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 5: there were not enough procedures in place that would have 617 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 5: allowed them to collect that evidence. I'm assuming those procedures 618 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 5: have been put in place now so that you would know, 619 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 5: say who's printed or save defile, or be able to 620 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 5: follow the complete chain of custody of those documents in 621 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 5: a way that they just didn't have in the system 622 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 5: at all, which unfortunately, I think the Court really wasn't 623 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 5: up to its game on the security. But I think 624 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 5: I'm sure they're implementing some of those things now. I 625 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 5: hope it's not too late, but I think they really 626 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 5: did miss their main window for finding the person when 627 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 5: everyone was still in the building, because by now, you 628 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 5: know those clerks who are working that year, and the 629 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 5: assumption it is a clerk, and even some of the 630 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 5: more shorter terms chamber staff. 631 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 4: Will have been gone long gone from the. 632 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 5: Court at this point, So how do you have any 633 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 5: more leverage over them? And we know that the staff 634 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 5: of the court was all asked to swear under oath 635 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 5: that they didn't have any knowledge of what happened. So 636 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 5: someone out there has perjured him or herself, assuming that 637 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 5: it was an internal court employee, which I think is 638 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 5: almost almost certain, So that's it's going to be a 639 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 5: real challenge. I think at this point we might not 640 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 5: find out until that person outs him or herself, and 641 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 5: that might be you know, they're gonna have to wait 642 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 5: till after the Statute of Limitations runs on these crimes, 643 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 5: they have committed if they don't want to get in 644 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 5: a lot of trouble. So I think they're going to 645 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 5: wait till they can cash in their New York Times 646 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 5: best selling tell All. But it might not be for 647 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 5: many years to come if they have to wait till, 648 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 5: you know, the Statute of limitations runs on their actions here. 649 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 2: I feel like this is just speculation. 650 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: I obviously have no insider not on it, but I 651 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: feel like it was a leftist justice and that's why 652 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: there's such an effort to conceal it. I think if 653 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: it was a staffer, they would have thrown that individual 654 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: under the bus. That's just my own I literally have 655 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: just purely speculative. I've got nothing, nothing to back it 656 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: up besides guts. 657 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 5: We know well, look, we know there are justices who 658 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 5: regularly leaked the press because. 659 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 4: We have seen reports. 660 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 5: You know, there was a book recently by a CNN 661 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 5: reporter that clearly has and going through from the Obamacare 662 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 5: case on, we've had indications of what was going on 663 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 5: behind closed doors that clearly only a justice would have known. 664 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 5: So there are leakers among the justices and that's a 665 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 5: real concern. What Justice Alito suggested, and maybe he's optimistic 666 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 5: in this. He said, well, gosh, this is something that 667 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 5: literally put the lives of six of the justices at risk. 668 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 5: And he was responding to the fact that some people 669 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 5: have just laughably suggested maybe he was the leaker or something. 670 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 5: I'm like, he's like, you know, I had to go 671 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 5: into hiding because to this leak. I don't think I 672 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 5: would have leaked that that opinion, even to try to 673 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 5: keep a justice from flipping at the last minute. And 674 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 5: so what he I think was saying there too is 675 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 5: if it was a justice, it was a justice who 676 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 5: was acting with complete, reckless disregard for the lives of 677 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 5: their colleagues. I think to me that suggests a little 678 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 5: more was a clerk, because it was clearly a very 679 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 5: naive move from someone who did not have a real 680 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 5: interest in the institution of the court or even in 681 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 5: the safety of the other justices. But you know that 682 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 5: maybe that doesn't rule that out. 683 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 4: I think. I hope we know someday, but it might 684 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 4: not be for a while yet. 685 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: You know, before we go carry, you know, a lot 686 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: of people, a lot of Americans are facing a lot 687 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: right now. You know, their minds are on being able 688 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: to put food on the table, these different issues that 689 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: are before them. Why is it important for people to 690 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: be paying attention to maintaining the integrity of the Supreme Court? 691 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 5: Well, whatever other issues you are concerned about, and obviously 692 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 5: you know, this is the challenge in a situation where 693 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 5: we are right now, where the economy is so bad, 694 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 5: people are having a lot of you know, big deal issues, 695 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 5: but all of those these problems, Ultimately, if we don't 696 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 5: have a functional Supreme Court, we are not going to 697 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 5: have that check that's going to keep the constitutional system 698 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 5: in place, that's going to make sure that we have 699 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 5: a country where you can be, you know, working in safety, 700 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 5: trying to recover our economy. The rule of law is 701 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 5: the reason we have We have had a good economy 702 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 5: compare it worldwide standards up until now. If we lose that, 703 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 5: we're going to lose all of these things. So whatever 704 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 5: issue it is that you are really concerned about, you know, 705 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 5: whether it's life, whether it's you know, your your right 706 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 5: to keep in bear arms, whether it's equal protection, you know, 707 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 5: whether it's the overgrowth of the administrative state which gets 708 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 5: into all these different areas. That's what's underlying a lot 709 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 5: of these problems. You saw issues with the mandatory COVID 710 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 5: masking and vaccines, and you had issues with the with 711 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 5: immigration law going you know which every which way you've 712 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 5: had immigrations, with the student loan. 713 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 4: Things. 714 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 5: All of these issues are coming back to the court 715 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 5: because the court's the one that's making sure the government 716 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,879 Speaker 5: stays within the boundaries of what the Constitution lays out 717 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 5: for it. 718 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 4: So, unfortunately, we can't. 719 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 5: Afford to allow the court to just be to slip 720 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 5: into being again an instrument of the left imposing it's 721 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 5: it's policies on the country because all of those things 722 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 5: are going to go with it if the court's not 723 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 5: willing to be a check on the rest of the government. 724 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 5: So I think it's still such a key issue, and 725 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 5: think about it. You know, President Trump had so many 726 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 5: different initiatives who was working on. He had a lot 727 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 5: of great executive orders, all this stuff. Those things are 728 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 5: basically wiped out already. The only impact, the biggest impact 729 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 5: he had that still remains are the judges and the 730 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 5: justices that he put on the court who will be 731 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 5: there for a generation. The Left is going crazy about it. 732 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 5: That's why we're seeing such a focus. They're so angry 733 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 5: at this lasting legacy that we have on the courts, 734 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 5: and this is why we need to just keep on 735 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 5: focusing on that in the future, because that is one 736 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 5: of the most long lasting and impactful things any president 737 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 5: has the opportunity to do. So I'm very grateful we 738 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 5: have that, but again President Biden's trying to undo it 739 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 5: every day and he's nominating all sorts of crazy people. 740 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 5: We just have to try to continue to elect people 741 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 5: who will bring us judges and justices who can continue 742 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 5: to be that check on our constitutional system. 743 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: Well, it's also just really important as we see our 744 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: liberties and freedoms under attack and we are increasingly living 745 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: in a chaotic world, we need things like the Supreme 746 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: Court to maintain order. Otherwise we will go the way 747 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: of Venezuela and some of these other countries that we've mentioned, 748 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 1: which seems to be the dream of the left, but 749 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: would not be good for anyone listening us. So, Carrie Severino, 750 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: President of JCN, I appreciate you taking the time to 751 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: break down this important issue to the audience. I know 752 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: you're busy, so I appreciate your time. 753 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 4: Thanks talking to you. 754 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: So that was Carrie. 755 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: Severino, President of JCN, breaking down this attempt to delegitimize 756 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 1: the Court. I mean, we really can't have this happen, 757 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: as the Supreme Court is really one of the last 758 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: institutions people have any faith in whatsoever, also pivotal to 759 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: the rule of law in America. But I appreciate her 760 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: joining the show. Appreciate you guys as always listening to 761 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: the show. What do I thank John Cassio and my producer 762 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: for putting it together every Monday and Thursday. 763 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 2: You can listen throughout the week until next time.