WEBVTT - #341 Jason Flom with John Giuca Pt.2 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:07.760 In part one of our coverage of John Juker, you 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:10.440 heard about how a corrupt investigation turned a group of 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.880 friends against one of their own, producing initially three and 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.560 eventually a fourth false and conflicting testimony that led to 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:22.079 John's arrest and conviction. Now hear about his continuing fight 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.479 for freedom and where the case stands today. 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:29.920 They're taking thing from me that I'll never get back. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:31.040 You know. 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:33.720 They took all my twenties and now all my thirties soup, 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.320 and now they're going to start working on the forties 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:42.560 unless something happens. When I came up States, they automatically 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:44.559 started trying to go to the Low Library alive. But 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:46.400 it's hard to even get up out of bed in 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.159 the morning knowing what's being done to you. But you 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.240 want to just try to keep going on at which 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:53.880 I did, and I try to. I was going to 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.160 the Low Library every day at one point, trying to 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:57.840 get to know the law. And that's when I saw 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:02.160 that my prosecutor, NICOLASI is the prescatorial misconduct handbook of 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.640 like a playbook, even though all those things are considered 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.360 the gregious misconduct. And my lawyer, whose name was Lloyd 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.039 Epstein at the time said that that's your major issue 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.480 right here, because there's so much here. This is just 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.440 a case based off of words, and so they had 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.319 to beat their piece with misconduct and pull in every 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.240 dirty move. That because she suppressed evidence more than once 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:29.440 that we could prove between coursing witnesses, misstating the full record, 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:31.800 or even misstating the law. She told the jury that 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.479 and this was in my first appeal that what Lornen 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.080 said alone is enough to convict me of fill any murder. 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.959 And that's not really true either, but it's all that 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.880 is moot now because of the recantations. But the major 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.919 one was, besides her polygraph trade, was a whitewashed drug 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.960 program violations documents that they gave us. So they literally 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:56.840 whitewashed records that they gave us for John of Veto. 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.520 They put him up on a stand and got him 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.280 to say that he wasn't getting anything and didn't want 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.640 anything in return for his testimony, no leniency and no 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.440 benefits at all. Meanwhile, he just fucked up seven or 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.040 eight drug programs and got like all these violations and 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.440 he just got violated like a couple of days before 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:18.800 he was on the stand up there, but they gave 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:23.200 us drug program violation reports that didn't have any of 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.280 that stuff on there. And then later when we got 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.200 the case file, we got the real copy of the 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.720 exact same document. It's the same document. It's not a 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.960 different document. It's the exact same If you've pulled them 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.280 up to each other, they are the same document, but 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:41.920 they have more sentences in them. So somebody just highlighted 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.000 that part presidently and printed it out and gave it 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.880 to us. Then the Supreme Court judges have said for 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.440 years that is huge. That's the major that the jury 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:56.120 knows the credibility of someone and what their motive is 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.280 for testifying against someone. They just propped them up there 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.160 and made it look like he was just testifying to 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.520 be a good citizen and that he didn't want anything 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.919 in change for his testimony. It was a total wife. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.520 She even showed up to one of his court appearances 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.640 and made sure he didn't go to jail. That was 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.600 my first appeal of the prospratorial and misconduct stuff. But 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:18.400 then really those early years were more about my jura 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:19.680 misconduct issue. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:21.799 I understand that one of your friends was with your 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.919 mom and noticed somebody in the jury that he recognized. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:26.200 Do I have that right? 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.920 Yeah, I'm pretty sure. It was the day the verdict. 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.520 Someone came in to support me and he saw one 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:34.480 of the jurors and he was like, holy shit, I 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.080 know this guy from the neighborhood and he hangs out 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.080 at the Wenvil's house, and that's the same place John 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.480 always hangs out. How the fuck does this guy not 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.480 know John or no of John or something? You know, how, 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:45.320 this is weird. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:47.480 So he told my mother, and then your mom puts 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:52.480 on her literal superhero cape and goes and you gotta 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.720 hearing the audience. Now, you're gonna have to hear this 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.000 to believe it. She's unbelievable. I can't say enough about 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:00.600 Doreen tried to go. 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.400 Through a private investigator. First, she got ripped. Dolph tried 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.600 multiple private investigators, and she just had to take matters 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:09.400 into her own hands, and she did. And then I 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.760 think they found out through a barber or something like that, 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:14.960 exactly where he was from and who he was. 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.320 She watched him for a period of time and eventually 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.680 started communicating with him and they started hanging out. Now, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.640 of course, she was not known to him to be 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:31.200 John Jukea's mother, but she recorded her interactions with him. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.279 They began an ostensible friendship, and after a period of time, 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:40.440 she started talking about the case, and this guy Alo 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.680 started saying things that would make your jaw drop or 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.279 make you spit out your morning coffee if you're talking 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.839 about due process and having a fair and impartial jury. 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.280 He said that he written newspapers and watched TV all 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.560 about the case, even though the judge won them. I 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.120 think it was like thirteen or fifteen times not to 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.880 and he's that bullshit. He said that he couldn't get 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.160 off of work because his boss really didn't want him 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:06.920 to take off of curiate duty, but once he told 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.280 them about which case it was, his boss gave him 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:10.920 off and said, I want to see that fucking kid. 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.520 Fry told him he'll give him off with pay something 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:13.920 like that. 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.960 All kinds of things were coming out of this guy's mouth, 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.920 including admitting that he never should have been on the 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.160 jury because he knew some of the people. I've heard 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:24.520 of this crowd of kids. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.039 He said that his cousin who also used to hang 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.640 out at a house that I hung out at before, 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.760 and knew those guys, and she thought I was guilty, 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:35.800 so she told him that I was guilty. He said 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.080 his cousin wouldn't lie to me about something like that. 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:39.240 Another thing was that. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.160 He said, which is, guys that I used to hang 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.640 out with used to bully his brother. I didn't even 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.559 recognize the names that he was talking about, but guys 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.400 that I knew or that who knew me used to 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.359 bully his brother. So it was like revenge. He had 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:51.120 an accident rhyme. 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:56.400 And he also basically said that he didn't like Jews. Obviously, 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.960 the name Juka sounds like jew but it's very Italian, 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:02.279 not Jewish. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.760 He's not even a competent anti semi. He's wrong on 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:14.559 every conceivable way, morally bankrupt, mentally deficient. Just can't even 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:16.400 process this. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:21.480 And there is that famous cringe inducing interview on twenty 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.080 twenty where when this became public, Jason Alo actually made 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.000 the very ill advised decision to defend himself on TV 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:32.279 and he was interviewed by Martin Basher if you remember him, 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.919 and you know he was denying a lot of this, 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.920 where Basher's reading the transcript and playing the recording for 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.520 anyone and everyone to hear, and there's just no question 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.560 that the case should have been tossed because of the 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:47.640 German's conduct. 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.240 He said that pushed your other jurors in to a 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.479 guilty verdict. He even admitted it, and he was pushing 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.640 these other jurors into a guilty person. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.600 When they filed a motion to reverse the conviction on 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:16.400 that issue. The recordings were not authenticated. There are rules 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.880 of evidence in a courtroom. You can't just take someone's 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:24.160 word for it, and for whatever reason, those recordings were 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.080 not authenticated in the proper way, and so the motion 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.720 was denied on procedural grounds. But the judge who denied 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.200 the motion went farther and said, even if it was proper, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.400 I would deny it on the merits, because this is, 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.000 you know, an assault on the judicial system for somebody 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.880 to be going after a jur So the criticism was 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:46.400 actually leveled entirely at Doreen for exposing this, rather than 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.880 the juror who clearly had no business being on the case. 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.240 She didn't do anything wrong, she didn't commit any crimes. 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.200 It was just she dug for the truth that she 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.000 got it, and they didn't like what they found out 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:56.960 what they heard. 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.800 So I got involved in this in two thousand and 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:04.360 two twelve was contacted by Doreen John's mother or whose 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.560 some Noah's mother justice because of what she did trying 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:10.280 to unravel the conviction. When she showed up in my 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:14.400 office with just stacks of papers, the first piece of 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.400 paper that was on top of this whole pile was 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.920 a transcript in the People of the State of New 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.760 York versus John Avito, not John Juca, And it was 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.840 the court appearance in which a veto had gone to 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:32.160 court after he started meeting with John's prosecutor. Now, on 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.320 the cover of any transcript, it's gonna list the caption 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.880 of the case, the name of who appears for the 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.520 DA's office, who appears for the defense, that sort of thing, 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.200 and the appearance for the DA on the cover of 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.160 this transcript in June thirteenth of two thousand and five 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:53.080 was Anna Sega Nicolozzi, who was John's prosecutor. And there 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:57.240 was no reason why a homicide prosecutor on the biggest 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.120 murder case in New York City would be appearing on 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:05.360 a mundane, meaningless return on warrant for some mope who 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:09.080 had a burglary sentence. Because he violated a drug program 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:13.160 other than the fact he had to be cooperating in 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.600 the murder case, and so I knew within the first 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.480 day I met Doreen that this case was sideways. 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.440 And all of this is happening in the ramp up 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.480 to the historic run of Ken Thompson. It seemed like 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.640 he was really ready to change things for good in Brooklyn. 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.560 There was some story in the press during the election 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.160 in twenty twelve thirteen, because we were in the process 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.680 of trying to get Juca's conviction overturned, and a lot 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:40.920 of this news about angel di Pietro came out, and 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.520 again the idea that she could be hired by Hines 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.679 as a prosecutor and be Nicolozzi's colleague years later just 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.880 so absurd on his face that he asked me about 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.640 what is all this? In my view, he wanted to 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.440 campaign on Juka. Ironically enough, and maybe it was my 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.880 mistake at the time, but I told him, I don't 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.400 want to talk to you about anything Jukeer related because 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.000 you're probably going to be the next DA And I'm 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:09.840 telling you right now, I'm going to be coming to 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.800 you to right this wrong. And I look back and 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.000 one of my sins in this case is probably not 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.439 unloading to him because ironically what he would have probably 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:19.720 done is campaigned on it. 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.920 So Ken Thompson challenges Hines against long Eyes in the primary. 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:27.680 He wins, and what does Joe Hines do. He's got 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.720 to go to the GOP King's County Executive Committee and 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.640 get the Wilson Pacula waiver to allow him to run 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:34.400 as a Republican. 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.000 He pulled the sneaky political move and he used that 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.280 card when he needed it. So it was something that 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.120 he was always getting during all of his elections, just 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.680 in case he needed it. But in twenty thirteen he 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.800 actually needed it and used it and ran as Republicans 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.400 to take a second bite at the apple and tried 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.880 to win the race even though he lost the primary. 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.600 So now, Mark, at this point, you're thinking, this is 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:00.400 your time. You got Ken Thompson in. It's time to 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:01.800 resolve this once and for awe. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:06.719 Yeah, the idea here was to convince the incoming administration 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.760 of the Brooklyn Thea's Office that the Hinz crowd got 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.959 this wrong and here's a chance to do right. When 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.760 we did bring the case to the Conviction Review Unit, 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.480 we presented them with all kinds of evidence, including literally hundreds, 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.720 if not thousands, of pages of medical records of John 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.520 Jukeas Senior, who had the strokes that we talked about, 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.120 which meant that the Avido's story couldn't have happened. We 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.079 presented them with the sworn affidavits of the two women 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.559 who were at that jailhouse visit, who denied that conversation 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:41.040 ever took place. We presented them with overwhelming proof of 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:46.120 how Angel and Albert clearly testified falsely, and how it 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.120 contradicted what they told the police and contradicted all the 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.800 other available evidence. We presented them with sworn affidavits of 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.720 the residents of Argyle Road who explained how they heard 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.280 the car door, the voice of the young woman, the 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.240 car fleeing the location. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.840 And while this is in the cru we're talking twenty thirteen, 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.880 twenty fourteen. Amazingly, this is when the recantations start rolling in. 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.160 So in twenty fourteen, Lauren Calciano recanted, and I have 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.720 some excerpts here that I want to share, she said, 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:16.679 and this is a long quote, So hang in there 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.800 with me, because you have to hear every word of this. Okay, 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.040 here's her quote. I have regretted this testimony since I 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.800 was first pressured to claim this by law enforcement officials. 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.240 I repeatedly told them that he did not have any 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.240 information regarding John's a legend involvement in this crime. Law 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.600 enforcement pressured and frightened me to the point that I 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.839 ultimately relented and told them what they wanted to hear. Specifically, 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.720 I was pressured to admit that John had told me 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.440 that he gave Tony Russell a gun before Tony shot 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:44.920 and killed Mark Fisher. She goes on to say, law 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.800 enforcement officials suggested that I was involved in the after 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.280 method the crime by telling me that Albert Cleary had 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.000 told them that I removed a gun bag or evidence 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.640 from John's house. Although this was untrue, I recognized the 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.480 seriousness of this claim. Law enforcement officers threatened me with 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.080 jail and told me that I could be charged with 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.320 obstruction and or perjury. Ada Nicolazzi told me that if 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.079 I did not cooperate with her, the police would show 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.240 open my place of employment with a subpoena. Ada Nicolozzi 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.720 referenced a very personal issue between John and me, which 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.480 was discussed only in our private letter she told me, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.720 you do not want this to come out of trial. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.719 I interpreted this as a not so subtle threat that 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.880 I would be publicly humiliated by the DA if I 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.040 did not cooperate. Ada Nicolozzi and detectives told me that 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.240 they were aware that my father was in prison and 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.960 that by not cooperating with them, I was quote going 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.000 to make this hard on him and my family. More 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.760 than any other factor, this threat influenced me to testify 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.280 in the manner that they desired. Now, this thing goes 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.240 on for eight full pages, and it completely shreds the 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:43.040 state's case. 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:47.000 She also, in her affidavit, explained how Albert Cleary lied 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.640 and that his testimony was false because I was there 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.360 and he didn't say that either. In other words, what 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.600 I said was not true, but what he said was 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:58.240 not true either. And she also gave a little insight 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.800 into what ghetto mafia were. Now, she didn't testify to 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.000 what it was because she wasn't asked, but in her 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.240 sworn recantation she said I was around these people during 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.360 this time period. In ghetto mafia is the name of 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:14.320 a bunch of local kids and knuckleheads, not some sophisticated 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.360 street gang. We also gave them a sworn affidavit from 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.920 if you recall when we talked about Albert Cleary, the 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.160 guy that he said was the boss of the gang 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.760 who had spoken to John about let's catch a body, 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.320 and that's why maybe Mark Fisher was shot. And he 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.360 very calmly explained under oath that I was going to 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.120 college in North Carolina and I was not the leader 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.280 of a gang, and John and I did not discuss 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.000 how to get a body or anything like that. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.480 And then John Avito recants. 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.200 He did and a Veto was very seriously mentally ill, 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.760 and he was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. We got all 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.560 of his Riker's Island jail records and sure enough, he 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.760 was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who had been taken a 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:06.680 number of drugs psychotropic drugs, including Sarahquill, and part of 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.920 his symptoms and what Sarahquill treats our people who suffer 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:16.240 auditory hallucinations, which Avido was. So it turns out that 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.960 the guy who says I overheard a man who can't 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:24.440 speak ask questions about a murder. You can't make this up, 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:30.040 had a history of actually hearing voices and seeing snakes 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:48.920 was another one of his visual hallucinations. We had many 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:53.320 many meetings with their conviction review unit, including one in 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.000 the summer I want to say a twenty fourteen, which 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.240 was chaired by Ericnzalis, who at the time was not 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:03.840 the DA. Obviously, Eric was overseeing the process, so he 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.479 knew exactly what was going on here, and they declined 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.840 to overturn the conviction, either on innocence or on any 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.560 constitutional violations. They had Mark Hale call me to tell me, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.320 I believe the words were that the district Attorney is 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.120 not going to disturb the conviction. I have to be 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.800 honest with you. I was a little surprised for a 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.920 couple of reasons. One because the decision is wrong. But 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.720 I know Ken, and I would have expected that call 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.560 to come from him given what this was. And I 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.080 said that to Mark, and I asked, I'd like to 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.360 hear that from Ken. So I was hoping to get 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.440 in touch with Ken, and instead I got a call 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.640 from Eric, who at the time was you know, the 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.200 number two guy. Eric's a nice guy. We had a 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.960 conversation and I told him I was disappointed that Ken 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.400 couldn't find the time to tell me himself and explain 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.680 his reasoning, and this was in late fourteen, and by 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.360 the first couple of months and fifteen we filed the motion. 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.480 It's just really disappointing is not as strong enough word. 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.159 It's devastating, And even with Ken Thompson in there, they 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.680 just for some reason had some sort of a block 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:14.720 against doing this. 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:17.160 The worst part about it for me was that all 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.760 these other guys, they were like when Ken Thompson took over, 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.119 there were twenty five generations and that gave me so 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.480 much hope, and at this point I've almost ceased to 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.600 hope because of what they did to me. Although the 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.920 difference between me and all those other guys is that 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.640 the ada that put them in jail doesn't work there anymore. 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.280 But when it came to me, when Ken Thompson got elected, 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.160 he didn't fire Nicolazi, so she did still work there, 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.480 and they covered for her instead of doing justice like 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.560 they should have. I mean, there was all a pile 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:53.919 of mountain of evidence that pointed away from me, and 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.520 they just didn't care. They denied me and use what 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:57.920 we gave them to try to counter me. 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.399 They knew that there was no way in hell that 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.159 if they denied his review, that there wasn't going to 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.199 be a post conviction motion. So I believe that they 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:12.920 exploited our petition to gather evidence, to cross examine witnesses 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:17.040 and use it as discovery. And when Johonavito and Lauren 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:22.520 Calciano and others at risk to themselves, they're controverting sworn 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.480 testimony with new sworn testimony. 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:25.400 When they went in to. 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.080 See the conviction Review unit, what the DA did was 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.840 record them, swear them in, make transcripts, and put them 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:38.600 under oath. When the Brooklyn DA witnesses were interviewed Anne Sega, Nicolozzi, others, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.560 they weren't sworn. There's no record of their interviews, and 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.600 the report has never been made public. It's never been shared, 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.320 like so many others that they do share. But it's 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:53.280 as if they viewed the Djuka conviction review as an 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:57.960 exercise in preparing for a post conviction motion and locking 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:02.000 down these witnesses to cross examined them if they testify 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:02.720 for the defense. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:08.080 So now, after the cru decided for reasons i'll never understand, 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.000 to pass, you got set up to file a four forty. 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:17.440 Motion that culminated in a reversal in February of twenty eighteen. 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:19.840 Yeah, I got an unanonymous decision this ski should be 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.480 reversed and he should get a new trial. Well, I 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.840 got the reversal of the John of Vito issue and 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.679 the fact that NICOLASI did give him benefits. The DA 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.760 showed up to want a witnesses court hearing and kept 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.320 him from going to jail, and that is leniency in 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.040 a change for cestimony. My jury should have known about that. 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.000 And then I go back down to Rugas Island and 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:42.000 I sit there for a year. 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.879 And a half when the DA was contemplating a retrial. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.840 They actually so desperate to get Juka okay that they 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.399 set these detectives up there to interview Russo for one reason. 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:53.879 They want to. 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:58.480 Secure his cooperation to testify against John. Now, Antonio Russo 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.160 is the murderer in this case. Everybody knows it. 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:03.239 They know it. 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:08.560 Antonio Russo carried a gun, threatened people. Yet when it 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.040 came time to potentially retry the case, they went up 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.000 there for the purpose of trying to flip Russo to 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.159 testify against Juca. And instead, what he tells them is 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:22.320 I did it alone with my own gun, and that 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:27.880 was the end of their discussions with Antonio Russo. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.320 So now you're back at Rikers for a couple months, 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:44.119 and during the discovery process you discover this recording that 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.000 was made with a guy named Ingram. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.200 Ada NIKOLASI made a recording in two thousand and five 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.520 before the trial that was recorded, and this was a 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.240 guy who was probably trying to help himself somehow, you know. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.240 He told them he had information and she said things 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:05.560 that she didn't want to hear because it did pretty 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:08.679 much clear me. So they what held it for? I 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:10.080 think what was it thirteen years? 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.840 This tape was not disclosed prior to trial. It was 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:19.320 disclosed to me in twenty eighteen and Joseph Ingram was 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.560 in the same cell block as John and traveled to 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:27.439 Bellevue for medical treatment one day with Antonio Russo and 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:30.200 him and Russo were on the bus chit chatting, he said. 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:33.600 Russo admitted he did this alone. I wasn't there. I 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.000 had nothing to do with it, none of that. 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:39.720 And Russo admitted to Ingram that I tried to get 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.119 John to take the gun after the murder. I went 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.280 to his house and he wouldn't do it. He told 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:49.320 me leave go no, And this was the exact opposite 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:51.640 of what the trial evidence was. Again, but Harry says 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:55.359