1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: In part one of our coverage of John Juker, you 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: heard about how a corrupt investigation turned a group of 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: friends against one of their own, producing initially three and 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: eventually a fourth false and conflicting testimony that led to 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: John's arrest and conviction. Now hear about his continuing fight 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: for freedom and where the case stands today. 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 2: They're taking thing from me that I'll never get back. 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: You know. 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: They took all my twenties and now all my thirties soup, 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: and now they're going to start working on the forties 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 2: unless something happens. When I came up States, they automatically 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 2: started trying to go to the Low Library alive. But 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: it's hard to even get up out of bed in 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: the morning knowing what's being done to you. But you 15 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: want to just try to keep going on at which 16 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: I did, and I try to. I was going to 17 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 2: the Low Library every day at one point, trying to 18 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: get to know the law. And that's when I saw 19 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: that my prosecutor, NICOLASI is the prescatorial misconduct handbook of 20 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: like a playbook, even though all those things are considered 21 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: the gregious misconduct. And my lawyer, whose name was Lloyd 22 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 2: Epstein at the time said that that's your major issue 23 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: right here, because there's so much here. This is just 24 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: a case based off of words, and so they had 25 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: to beat their piece with misconduct and pull in every 26 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: dirty move. That because she suppressed evidence more than once 27 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: that we could prove between coursing witnesses, misstating the full record, 28 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: or even misstating the law. She told the jury that 29 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 2: and this was in my first appeal that what Lornen 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: said alone is enough to convict me of fill any murder. 31 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 2: And that's not really true either, but it's all that 32 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: is moot now because of the recantations. But the major 33 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,919 Speaker 2: one was, besides her polygraph trade, was a whitewashed drug 34 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: program violations documents that they gave us. So they literally 35 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: whitewashed records that they gave us for John of Veto. 36 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: They put him up on a stand and got him 37 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: to say that he wasn't getting anything and didn't want 38 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: anything in return for his testimony, no leniency and no 39 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: benefits at all. Meanwhile, he just fucked up seven or 40 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: eight drug programs and got like all these violations and 41 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: he just got violated like a couple of days before 42 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: he was on the stand up there, but they gave 43 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: us drug program violation reports that didn't have any of 44 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: that stuff on there. And then later when we got 45 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: the case file, we got the real copy of the 46 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 2: exact same document. It's the same document. It's not a 47 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: different document. It's the exact same If you've pulled them 48 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: up to each other, they are the same document, but 49 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: they have more sentences in them. So somebody just highlighted 50 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: that part presidently and printed it out and gave it 51 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: to us. Then the Supreme Court judges have said for 52 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: years that is huge. That's the major that the jury 53 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: knows the credibility of someone and what their motive is 54 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: for testifying against someone. They just propped them up there 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: and made it look like he was just testifying to 56 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 2: be a good citizen and that he didn't want anything 57 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 2: in change for his testimony. It was a total wife. 58 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 2: She even showed up to one of his court appearances 59 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: and made sure he didn't go to jail. That was 60 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: my first appeal of the prospratorial and misconduct stuff. But 61 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: then really those early years were more about my jura 62 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: misconduct issue. 63 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: I understand that one of your friends was with your 64 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: mom and noticed somebody in the jury that he recognized. 65 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: Do I have that right? 66 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty sure. It was the day the verdict. 67 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: Someone came in to support me and he saw one 68 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: of the jurors and he was like, holy shit, I 69 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: know this guy from the neighborhood and he hangs out 70 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: at the Wenvil's house, and that's the same place John 71 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: always hangs out. How the fuck does this guy not 72 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: know John or no of John or something? You know, how, 73 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: this is weird. 74 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: So he told my mother, and then your mom puts 75 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: on her literal superhero cape and goes and you gotta 76 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: hearing the audience. Now, you're gonna have to hear this 77 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: to believe it. She's unbelievable. I can't say enough about 78 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: Doreen tried to go. 79 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: Through a private investigator. First, she got ripped. Dolph tried 80 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: multiple private investigators, and she just had to take matters 81 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: into her own hands, and she did. And then I 82 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: think they found out through a barber or something like that, 83 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: exactly where he was from and who he was. 84 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: She watched him for a period of time and eventually 85 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 3: started communicating with him and they started hanging out. Now, 86 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: of course, she was not known to him to be 87 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 3: John Jukea's mother, but she recorded her interactions with him. 88 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 3: They began an ostensible friendship, and after a period of time, 89 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 3: she started talking about the case, and this guy Alo 90 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: started saying things that would make your jaw drop or 91 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 3: make you spit out your morning coffee if you're talking 92 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 3: about due process and having a fair and impartial jury. 93 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: He said that he written newspapers and watched TV all 94 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: about the case, even though the judge won them. I 95 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: think it was like thirteen or fifteen times not to 96 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: and he's that bullshit. He said that he couldn't get 97 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: off of work because his boss really didn't want him 98 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 2: to take off of curiate duty, but once he told 99 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 2: them about which case it was, his boss gave him 100 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 2: off and said, I want to see that fucking kid. 101 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: Fry told him he'll give him off with pay something 102 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: like that. 103 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 3: All kinds of things were coming out of this guy's mouth, 104 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 3: including admitting that he never should have been on the 105 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 3: jury because he knew some of the people. I've heard 106 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: of this crowd of kids. 107 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 2: He said that his cousin who also used to hang 108 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: out at a house that I hung out at before, 109 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: and knew those guys, and she thought I was guilty, 110 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: so she told him that I was guilty. He said 111 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: his cousin wouldn't lie to me about something like that. 112 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: Another thing was that. 113 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 2: He said, which is, guys that I used to hang 114 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: out with used to bully his brother. I didn't even 115 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 2: recognize the names that he was talking about, but guys 116 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: that I knew or that who knew me used to 117 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 2: bully his brother. So it was like revenge. He had 118 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: an accident rhyme. 119 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 3: And he also basically said that he didn't like Jews. Obviously, 120 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: the name Juka sounds like jew but it's very Italian, 121 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 3: not Jewish. 122 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: He's not even a competent anti semi. He's wrong on 123 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:14,559 Speaker 1: every conceivable way, morally bankrupt, mentally deficient. Just can't even 124 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: process this. 125 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 3: And there is that famous cringe inducing interview on twenty 126 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: twenty where when this became public, Jason Alo actually made 127 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 3: the very ill advised decision to defend himself on TV 128 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 3: and he was interviewed by Martin Basher if you remember him, 129 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 3: and you know he was denying a lot of this, 130 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 3: where Basher's reading the transcript and playing the recording for 131 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 3: anyone and everyone to hear, and there's just no question 132 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 3: that the case should have been tossed because of the 133 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: German's conduct. 134 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: He said that pushed your other jurors in to a 135 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: guilty verdict. He even admitted it, and he was pushing 136 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: these other jurors into a guilty person. 137 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 3: When they filed a motion to reverse the conviction on 138 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: that issue. The recordings were not authenticated. There are rules 139 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 3: of evidence in a courtroom. You can't just take someone's 140 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: word for it, and for whatever reason, those recordings were 141 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: not authenticated in the proper way, and so the motion 142 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: was denied on procedural grounds. But the judge who denied 143 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 3: the motion went farther and said, even if it was proper, 144 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 3: I would deny it on the merits, because this is, 145 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 3: you know, an assault on the judicial system for somebody 146 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: to be going after a jur So the criticism was 147 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 3: actually leveled entirely at Doreen for exposing this, rather than 148 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: the juror who clearly had no business being on the case. 149 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: She didn't do anything wrong, she didn't commit any crimes. 150 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: It was just she dug for the truth that she 151 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: got it, and they didn't like what they found out 152 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: what they heard. 153 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 3: So I got involved in this in two thousand and 154 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: two twelve was contacted by Doreen John's mother or whose 155 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: some Noah's mother justice because of what she did trying 156 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: to unravel the conviction. When she showed up in my 157 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: office with just stacks of papers, the first piece of 158 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: paper that was on top of this whole pile was 159 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: a transcript in the People of the State of New 160 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: York versus John Avito, not John Juca, And it was 161 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 3: the court appearance in which a veto had gone to 162 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: court after he started meeting with John's prosecutor. Now, on 163 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 3: the cover of any transcript, it's gonna list the caption 164 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: of the case, the name of who appears for the 165 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 3: DA's office, who appears for the defense, that sort of thing, 166 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 3: and the appearance for the DA on the cover of 167 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: this transcript in June thirteenth of two thousand and five 168 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 3: was Anna Sega Nicolozzi, who was John's prosecutor. And there 169 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 3: was no reason why a homicide prosecutor on the biggest 170 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 3: murder case in New York City would be appearing on 171 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: a mundane, meaningless return on warrant for some mope who 172 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 3: had a burglary sentence. Because he violated a drug program 173 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 3: other than the fact he had to be cooperating in 174 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: the murder case, and so I knew within the first 175 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 3: day I met Doreen that this case was sideways. 176 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: And all of this is happening in the ramp up 177 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: to the historic run of Ken Thompson. It seemed like 178 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: he was really ready to change things for good in Brooklyn. 179 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 3: There was some story in the press during the election 180 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: in twenty twelve thirteen, because we were in the process 181 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 3: of trying to get Juca's conviction overturned, and a lot 182 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: of this news about angel di Pietro came out, and 183 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 3: again the idea that she could be hired by Hines 184 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 3: as a prosecutor and be Nicolozzi's colleague years later just 185 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 3: so absurd on his face that he asked me about 186 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: what is all this? In my view, he wanted to 187 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 3: campaign on Juka. Ironically enough, and maybe it was my 188 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 3: mistake at the time, but I told him, I don't 189 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 3: want to talk to you about anything Jukeer related because 190 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 3: you're probably going to be the next DA And I'm 191 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 3: telling you right now, I'm going to be coming to 192 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 3: you to right this wrong. And I look back and 193 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 3: one of my sins in this case is probably not 194 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 3: unloading to him because ironically what he would have probably 195 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 3: done is campaigned on it. 196 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: So Ken Thompson challenges Hines against long Eyes in the primary. 197 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: He wins, and what does Joe Hines do. He's got 198 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: to go to the GOP King's County Executive Committee and 199 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: get the Wilson Pacula waiver to allow him to run 200 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: as a Republican. 201 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: He pulled the sneaky political move and he used that 202 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: card when he needed it. So it was something that 203 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: he was always getting during all of his elections, just 204 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: in case he needed it. But in twenty thirteen he 205 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: actually needed it and used it and ran as Republicans 206 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: to take a second bite at the apple and tried 207 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: to win the race even though he lost the primary. 208 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: So now, Mark, at this point, you're thinking, this is 209 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: your time. You got Ken Thompson in. It's time to 210 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: resolve this once and for awe. 211 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, the idea here was to convince the incoming administration 212 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 3: of the Brooklyn Thea's Office that the Hinz crowd got 213 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 3: this wrong and here's a chance to do right. When 214 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: we did bring the case to the Conviction Review Unit, 215 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 3: we presented them with all kinds of evidence, including literally hundreds, 216 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 3: if not thousands, of pages of medical records of John 217 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 3: Jukeas Senior, who had the strokes that we talked about, 218 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 3: which meant that the Avido's story couldn't have happened. We 219 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 3: presented them with the sworn affidavits of the two women 220 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 3: who were at that jailhouse visit, who denied that conversation 221 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 3: ever took place. We presented them with overwhelming proof of 222 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 3: how Angel and Albert clearly testified falsely, and how it 223 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 3: contradicted what they told the police and contradicted all the 224 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 3: other available evidence. We presented them with sworn affidavits of 225 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 3: the residents of Argyle Road who explained how they heard 226 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 3: the car door, the voice of the young woman, the 227 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: car fleeing the location. 228 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: And while this is in the cru we're talking twenty thirteen, 229 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Amazingly, this is when the recantations start rolling in. 230 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: So in twenty fourteen, Lauren Calciano recanted, and I have 231 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: some excerpts here that I want to share, she said, 232 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: and this is a long quote, So hang in there 233 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: with me, because you have to hear every word of this. Okay, 234 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: here's her quote. I have regretted this testimony since I 235 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: was first pressured to claim this by law enforcement officials. 236 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: I repeatedly told them that he did not have any 237 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: information regarding John's a legend involvement in this crime. Law 238 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: enforcement pressured and frightened me to the point that I 239 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: ultimately relented and told them what they wanted to hear. Specifically, 240 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: I was pressured to admit that John had told me 241 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: that he gave Tony Russell a gun before Tony shot 242 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: and killed Mark Fisher. She goes on to say, law 243 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: enforcement officials suggested that I was involved in the after 244 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: method the crime by telling me that Albert Cleary had 245 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: told them that I removed a gun bag or evidence 246 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: from John's house. Although this was untrue, I recognized the 247 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: seriousness of this claim. Law enforcement officers threatened me with 248 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: jail and told me that I could be charged with 249 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: obstruction and or perjury. Ada Nicolazzi told me that if 250 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: I did not cooperate with her, the police would show 251 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: open my place of employment with a subpoena. Ada Nicolozzi 252 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: referenced a very personal issue between John and me, which 253 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: was discussed only in our private letter she told me, 254 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: you do not want this to come out of trial. 255 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: I interpreted this as a not so subtle threat that 256 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: I would be publicly humiliated by the DA if I 257 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: did not cooperate. Ada Nicolozzi and detectives told me that 258 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: they were aware that my father was in prison and 259 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: that by not cooperating with them, I was quote going 260 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: to make this hard on him and my family. More 261 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: than any other factor, this threat influenced me to testify 262 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: in the manner that they desired. Now, this thing goes 263 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: on for eight full pages, and it completely shreds the 264 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: state's case. 265 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 3: She also, in her affidavit, explained how Albert Cleary lied 266 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 3: and that his testimony was false because I was there 267 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 3: and he didn't say that either. In other words, what 268 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 3: I said was not true, but what he said was 269 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: not true either. And she also gave a little insight 270 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: into what ghetto mafia were. Now, she didn't testify to 271 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: what it was because she wasn't asked, but in her 272 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 3: sworn recantation she said I was around these people during 273 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 3: this time period. In ghetto mafia is the name of 274 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 3: a bunch of local kids and knuckleheads, not some sophisticated 275 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 3: street gang. We also gave them a sworn affidavit from 276 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 3: if you recall when we talked about Albert Cleary, the 277 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 3: guy that he said was the boss of the gang 278 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 3: who had spoken to John about let's catch a body, 279 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 3: and that's why maybe Mark Fisher was shot. And he 280 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 3: very calmly explained under oath that I was going to 281 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: college in North Carolina and I was not the leader 282 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 3: of a gang, and John and I did not discuss 283 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 3: how to get a body or anything like that. 284 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: And then John Avito recants. 285 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 3: He did and a Veto was very seriously mentally ill, 286 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 3: and he was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. We got all 287 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: of his Riker's Island jail records and sure enough, he 288 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 3: was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who had been taken a 289 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 3: number of drugs psychotropic drugs, including Sarahquill, and part of 290 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 3: his symptoms and what Sarahquill treats our people who suffer 291 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: auditory hallucinations, which Avido was. So it turns out that 292 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 3: the guy who says I overheard a man who can't 293 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: speak ask questions about a murder. You can't make this up, 294 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 3: had a history of actually hearing voices and seeing snakes 295 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 3: was another one of his visual hallucinations. We had many 296 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 3: many meetings with their conviction review unit, including one in 297 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: the summer I want to say a twenty fourteen, which 298 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 3: was chaired by Ericnzalis, who at the time was not 299 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: the DA. Obviously, Eric was overseeing the process, so he 300 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,479 Speaker 3: knew exactly what was going on here, and they declined 301 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 3: to overturn the conviction, either on innocence or on any 302 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: constitutional violations. They had Mark Hale call me to tell me, 303 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 3: I believe the words were that the district Attorney is 304 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 3: not going to disturb the conviction. I have to be 305 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 3: honest with you. I was a little surprised for a 306 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 3: couple of reasons. One because the decision is wrong. But 307 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 3: I know Ken, and I would have expected that call 308 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 3: to come from him given what this was. And I 309 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 3: said that to Mark, and I asked, I'd like to 310 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 3: hear that from Ken. So I was hoping to get 311 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: in touch with Ken, and instead I got a call 312 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 3: from Eric, who at the time was you know, the 313 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 3: number two guy. Eric's a nice guy. We had a 314 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: conversation and I told him I was disappointed that Ken 315 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 3: couldn't find the time to tell me himself and explain 316 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 3: his reasoning, and this was in late fourteen, and by 317 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 3: the first couple of months and fifteen we filed the motion. 318 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: It's just really disappointing is not as strong enough word. 319 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: It's devastating, And even with Ken Thompson in there, they 320 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: just for some reason had some sort of a block 321 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: against doing this. 322 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 2: The worst part about it for me was that all 323 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: these other guys, they were like when Ken Thompson took over, 324 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 2: there were twenty five generations and that gave me so 325 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 2: much hope, and at this point I've almost ceased to 326 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: hope because of what they did to me. Although the 327 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: difference between me and all those other guys is that 328 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 2: the ada that put them in jail doesn't work there anymore. 329 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 2: But when it came to me, when Ken Thompson got elected, 330 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 2: he didn't fire Nicolazi, so she did still work there, 331 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: and they covered for her instead of doing justice like 332 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: they should have. I mean, there was all a pile 333 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 2: of mountain of evidence that pointed away from me, and 334 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: they just didn't care. They denied me and use what 335 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 2: we gave them to try to counter me. 336 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 3: They knew that there was no way in hell that 337 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 3: if they denied his review, that there wasn't going to 338 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 3: be a post conviction motion. So I believe that they 339 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 3: exploited our petition to gather evidence, to cross examine witnesses 340 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 3: and use it as discovery. And when Johonavito and Lauren 341 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 3: Calciano and others at risk to themselves, they're controverting sworn 342 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 3: testimony with new sworn testimony. 343 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: When they went in to. 344 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 3: See the conviction Review unit, what the DA did was 345 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 3: record them, swear them in, make transcripts, and put them 346 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 3: under oath. When the Brooklyn DA witnesses were interviewed Anne Sega, Nicolozzi, others, 347 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 3: they weren't sworn. There's no record of their interviews, and 348 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 3: the report has never been made public. It's never been shared, 349 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 3: like so many others that they do share. But it's 350 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: as if they viewed the Djuka conviction review as an 351 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: exercise in preparing for a post conviction motion and locking 352 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 3: down these witnesses to cross examined them if they testify 353 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 3: for the defense. 354 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: So now, after the cru decided for reasons i'll never understand, 355 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: to pass, you got set up to file a four forty. 356 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 3: Motion that culminated in a reversal in February of twenty eighteen. 357 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got an unanonymous decision this ski should be 358 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: reversed and he should get a new trial. Well, I 359 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: got the reversal of the John of Vito issue and 360 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 2: the fact that NICOLASI did give him benefits. The DA 361 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: showed up to want a witnesses court hearing and kept 362 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: him from going to jail, and that is leniency in 363 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 2: a change for cestimony. My jury should have known about that. 364 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: And then I go back down to Rugas Island and 365 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: I sit there for a year. 366 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 3: And a half when the DA was contemplating a retrial. 367 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: They actually so desperate to get Juka okay that they 368 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 3: set these detectives up there to interview Russo for one reason. 369 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: They want to. 370 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 3: Secure his cooperation to testify against John. Now, Antonio Russo 371 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 3: is the murderer in this case. Everybody knows it. 372 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 1: They know it. 373 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 3: Antonio Russo carried a gun, threatened people. Yet when it 374 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: came time to potentially retry the case, they went up 375 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 3: there for the purpose of trying to flip Russo to 376 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 3: testify against Juca. And instead, what he tells them is 377 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 3: I did it alone with my own gun, and that 378 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 3: was the end of their discussions with Antonio Russo. 379 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: So now you're back at Rikers for a couple months, 380 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: and during the discovery process you discover this recording that 381 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: was made with a guy named Ingram. 382 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 2: Ada NIKOLASI made a recording in two thousand and five 383 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 2: before the trial that was recorded, and this was a 384 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: guy who was probably trying to help himself somehow, you know. 385 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 2: He told them he had information and she said things 386 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: that she didn't want to hear because it did pretty 387 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 2: much clear me. So they what held it for? I 388 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 2: think what was it thirteen years? 389 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 3: This tape was not disclosed prior to trial. It was 390 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 3: disclosed to me in twenty eighteen and Joseph Ingram was 391 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 3: in the same cell block as John and traveled to 392 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 3: Bellevue for medical treatment one day with Antonio Russo and 393 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 3: him and Russo were on the bus chit chatting, he said. 394 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: Russo admitted he did this alone. I wasn't there. I 395 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it, none of that. 396 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 3: And Russo admitted to Ingram that I tried to get 397 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 3: John to take the gun after the murder. I went 398 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 3: to his house and he wouldn't do it. He told 399 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 3: me leave go no, And this was the exact opposite 400 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 3: of what the trial evidence was. Again, but Harry says 401 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 3: John got rid of a gun. Antonio Russo told Joseph 402 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: Ingram John would not take the gun. 403 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: But the new trial was never actualized. For now they 404 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: didn't have to contend with this evidence. In June twenty nineteen, 405 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: the New York Court of Appeals reinstated the conviction that 406 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: you had reversed in twenty eighteen, and John went back 407 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: to state prison. 408 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: The New York State Court of Appeals authored a decision 409 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: that is so absurd defined logic, and it was obvious 410 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: by the decision that they didn't know the facts of 411 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 2: the case. 412 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 3: Although they agreed with us that Nicolazzi suppressed evidence, they 413 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 3: argued it was not material to the outcome of trial, 414 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 3: which is reasoning, which is mind boggling, given that Nicolozzi's 415 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 3: whole summation, as I told you earlier, was about how 416 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 3: critical a witness A. Vito was, and how credible he was, 417 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 3: and how altruistic he was, and how he established the 418 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 3: real theory of what happened. And one would think that 419 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,719 Speaker 3: if the defense had known the full story about his credibility, 420 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 3: and demolished him as it should have been that would 421 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 3: somehow have impacted the significance of his testimony. But in 422 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 3: the five to one opinion against us, they argued it 423 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 3: wasn't material because a veto had been impeached about other things. 424 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,959 Speaker 3: And it was Judge Rivera, in a very lengthy descent, 425 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 3: who explained why that reasoning was flawed and why his 426 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 3: credibility on this particular issue is so important, and why 427 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 3: the behavior of the trial prosecutor was intended to mislead 428 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 3: the judge, the jury and defense. You don't usually see 429 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 3: a judge of the Court of Appeals call out a 430 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 3: prosecutor and essentially say you engaged in deliberate misconduct in 431 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 3: violation of your ethical responsibilities. But again in Brooklyn, what's 432 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: for dinner? Nobody cares. 433 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: They do care, it seems though, about bending over backwards 434 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: and doing mental gymnastics to maintain this inexplicable wrongful conviction, 435 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: which it seems they did when you were able to 436 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: get a hearing on this Brady material, this recording that 437 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: was made with a guy named Ingram in front of 438 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: Justice Danny Chun. 439 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 3: Now, I have sworn statements and there's been sworn testimony 440 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 3: from Russo's lawyer and from Sam Gregory that they didn't 441 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 3: get this evidence and they would have remembered it if 442 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 3: they did. And then we had testimony from Nicolotzi who said, 443 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 3: I can't say whether I did or didn't, but if 444 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: I did, it wasn't on purpose, but I probably did. 445 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 3: And this was litigated a couple of years ago in 446 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 3: front of Justice Chun, who found that the DA probably 447 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 3: disclosed it, notwithstanding the fact that they explained why this 448 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 3: would have been significant evidence and steps they would have 449 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 3: taken had they known about it back then. But nevertheless, 450 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 3: Justice Chun found that we did not satisfy our burden 451 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 3: that it wasn't disclosed. And I just respectfully because I 452 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 3: like him personally, but the ruling on that case is 453 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 3: just flat out one hundred percent wrong. 454 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: So that's where this is at. What can any of 455 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: us do? 456 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 2: The help Writing to the governor is probably best right now, 457 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 2: because I really don't see myself getting justice in Brooklyn 458 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 2: in these with these judges and with this DA, so 459 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 2: I need to get a special prosecutor appointed, and the 460 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: only one who can do that for me is the governor. 461 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: That's my next motion. I'm pretty sure. 462 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to link your website and Instagram 463 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: account to keep our audience abreast of all future developments 464 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: and action steps, as well as if they wanted to 465 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: learn more about your case. 466 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got briefs, transcripts, exhibits. One thing we definitely 467 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 3: believe in is shining a bright light on this and with. 468 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: That we go to closing arguments. This, of course, is 469 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: the part of the show where I'm going to put 470 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: my microphone down, leave my headphones on, kick back in 471 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: my chair, close my eyes, and just take a couple 472 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: of deep breaths because I need it after this, and 473 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: listen to anything else you guys want to share. So Mark, 474 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: what if you take it from here and then hand 475 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: the mic off to John. And John you have the 476 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: last word, and you know my last word is I 477 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: just wish you all the best, and I hope we 478 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: see you back in the free world home with your 479 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: family where you belong, really really soon. 480 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 3: We are always investigating, gathering and doing things as I 481 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 3: said these John, his mother, his family, his supporters. Sometimes 482 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 3: they fade out of the public eye a little bit, 483 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 3: but we're always getting ready to fight, and we are 484 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 3: still looking into certain things, which, as I said, I 485 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 3: think will at some point lead us back. They want 486 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 3: us to be gone, but we're not going anywhere. I 487 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 3: know that. You know, in the eyes of the Brooklyn 488 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 3: DA at this point, they just wish we would go 489 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 3: away and fade away, and he would do his time 490 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 3: and Doreen would stop fighting. And why did they get 491 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 3: better row to help them? How can he fall for 492 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 3: this nonsense? 493 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: You know? 494 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 3: I know that's kind of how they perceive my involvement 495 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 3: of this, and they couldn't be more wrong. I believe 496 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 3: in this one hundred percent. I have no doubt that 497 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 3: John was wrongfully convicted. I have confidence in his actual innocence. 498 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 3: I believe to my core that he didn't commit this crime, 499 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 3: and that's after reviewing all the evidence. And I certainly 500 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 3: believe and know, based on my review of the evidence 501 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 3: of the law that his rights were violated several different ways, 502 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 3: and that this was not a trial. What happened in 503 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 3: two thousand and five, it was a railroading. It was 504 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 3: just Brooklyn style justice in the Charles Hines administration, and 505 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 3: those skeletons are still there. It's not so far past 506 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 3: where people are going to be willing to forget about it, 507 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 3: and certainly we aren't, and we're not going anywhere. 508 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 2: It's just been too much suffering for too long. 509 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: You know. 510 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: It's wrong on top of wrong, on top of injustice 511 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 2: on top of injustices, but an ongoing tragedy. This is 512 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 2: not only am I being affected, but my family is 513 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: being crushed from this. It took my youth from me 514 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 2: and all the experiences I would have had it, and 515 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 2: I feel like a financial burden on my family too. 516 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 2: I can anchor around the neck, and my mother's getting 517 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 2: older now. I'm afraid she. I pray every day that 518 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: she could come home while she's still alive, and she 519 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: makes it. And they took all that time away from 520 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 2: me that I was supposed to have with her. And 521 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: being in prison wrongfully is much different than being here 522 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 2: for something you actually did. That's what me and a 523 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 2: lot of these other guys have already been on your 524 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 2: show have in common, I think, is them we understand 525 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 2: what it feels like. That's why I feel it's not 526 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 2: a kinship with them, some of them who I even 527 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 2: never met, Because when you're here for something you actually did, 528 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 2: I see it. These other guys, they get into a 529 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 2: routine and they just say they accept it. But when 530 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 2: you hear wrongfully, it's impossible for you to accept. You 531 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: just really can't accept it, So every day it becomes torture. 532 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction Special thanks to 533 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: our amazing production team Connor Hall, Annie Chelsea, Jeff Clyburn, 534 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: and Kevin Watis, with research by Lyla Robinson. The music 535 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time Oscar nominated 536 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph To follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, 537 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at 538 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On 539 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow on TikTok and 540 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: Instagram at its Jason Flamm. That's its Jason Flamm. Wrongful 541 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 542 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one