Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This is park Landia
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. We sold our loft in Chicago,
Speaker 1: moved into an r V, and now we're talking in
Speaker 1: the country full time with our dog Finn, exploring America's
Speaker 1: national parks, and today we're talking about ecology with our
Speaker 1: shows researcher Jescelyn Shields. Why don't you introduce yourself and
Speaker 1: what you do? Hi, you guys. I'm happy to be
Speaker 1: here today. I am a freelance science writer. I work
Speaker 1: a lot for how stuff works, and I am the
Speaker 1: researcher for your show. I love it. And you've been
Speaker 1: adding such a wonderful segment about wildlife and ecology and
Speaker 1: really helping us learn and understand the nuances that each
Speaker 1: national park is facing. Um, when it comes to that,
Speaker 1: the importance of each of those ecosystems and the wildlife. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: it's fascinating stuff and I love diving into it with
Speaker 1: you guys. So we have to start off, what are
Speaker 1: some of the things that ecologists study? Well, Um, it
Speaker 1: depends on the ecologists that you ask. Um. Ecologists would
Speaker 1: probably say they study the interaction of organisms with their environment.
Speaker 1: But the truth is this is such a huge complicated
Speaker 1: thing to focus on that most ecologists look at ecology
Speaker 1: through a specific lens. Oh, like a population ecologist. That's
Speaker 1: exactly right, um. Population ecologists study the population of a
Speaker 1: single organism, So how they're distributed over ecosystem. What factors
Speaker 1: contribute to a population growing or shrinking? Um? Why the
Speaker 1: organism does what it does? So that could be an elk,
Speaker 1: or it could be mushroom. Interesting. Um. Can you give
Speaker 1: us another example of this, um? Yeah. For instance, UM,
Speaker 1: salmon dies after it reproduces UM. So when you're studying
Speaker 1: all the salmon and what they're doing together that a
Speaker 1: population ecologist would do at um. Or you know, there
Speaker 1: might be a huge explosion to mosquitoes in a certain
Speaker 1: place and population ecologists would study that too. Wow. So
Speaker 1: these are the type of questions that population ecologists try
Speaker 1: to answer. That's right. And actually there is one step
Speaker 1: up from a population, which is a community. So community
Speaker 1: ecologists look at how different organisms within the ecosystem interact.
Speaker 1: So this would be like how the wolves and yellow
Speaker 1: stones suddenly change the interactions between the other animals and
Speaker 1: plants in the ecosystem totally. That's a great example Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the existence of top predators that impacts change the
Speaker 1: interaction of all the other organisms in the ecosystem. So,
Speaker 1: for example, you get elk acting different leak when you
Speaker 1: introduce wolves. Um, so that means that riverside willows grow bigger,
Speaker 1: which attracts beavers because they make these dams, which makes
Speaker 1: more habitat for otters and fish and ray waiting birds. Um.
Speaker 1: And the wolves go after coyotes, and coyotes sort of
Speaker 1: um compete with things like hawks and foxes, so they
Speaker 1: do their thing. Yeah. So basically, community ecologists are interested
Speaker 1: in why and how these behaviors affect those interactions. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's and you know, however, the interactions between like the
Speaker 1: plants and the micro rise in the soil everything, Um,
Speaker 1: how they all interact and why. Wow. Yeah. Another thing
Speaker 1: I find fascinating is ecosystem ecology and how it takes
Speaker 1: all that population and community ecology can teach us and
Speaker 1: add the layer of non living things like whether soil chemistry,
Speaker 1: how energy flows. Yes, so, an ecosystem is an area
Speaker 1: that houses a specific set of organisms and also non
Speaker 1: living elements like you know, dirt water that work together
Speaker 1: to create its own special thing. Whether it be what
Speaker 1: you find in the Mohabi desert or among the giants
Speaker 1: a quiz. So the borders that contain an ecosystem are
Speaker 1: really blurry though, and they are mostly defined by humans.
Speaker 1: So organisms find little places to live and work. And
Speaker 1: even in the borders of ecosystems. Um, like in a
Speaker 1: tide pool on the beach. It's in the water and
Speaker 1: it's not really that much like the forest that's just
Speaker 1: ten ms away, but they still affect each other. Um.
Speaker 1: They bleed into each other more than you might think. Also,
Speaker 1: because ecosystem science takes into consideration a biotic or non
Speaker 1: living stuff that impacts the system, ecologists who study them
Speaker 1: often examine how ecosystems are changing due to things like
Speaker 1: climate change or um how we change the use of
Speaker 1: the land, like a forest that turned into an agricultural field,
Speaker 1: for instance. Right, So it college to study populations of organisms,
Speaker 1: communities of organisms, and ecosystems, which include both living and
Speaker 1: non living things interacting in a particular place. Is the
Speaker 1: ecosystem of the largest unit of ecology. If ecosystems bleed
Speaker 1: into each other, it seems like there might be even
Speaker 1: bigger systems to study. That's a great question. Um. Yes,
Speaker 1: one thing the science of ecology teaches us is that
Speaker 1: there is no disconnecting one thing from another thing on
Speaker 1: this whole planet. So if we use our current climate
Speaker 1: situation as an example, decisions made by one nation state
Speaker 1: regarding something like coal fired power plants can affect both
Speaker 1: living and non living things thousands of miles across the
Speaker 1: ocean in really big ways. So ecologists talk about two
Speaker 1: other levels or units of space and interaction, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So they talked about the a biome, which is confused
Speaker 1: with an ecosystem a lot of times. It's just a
Speaker 1: general term to describe habitat type where organisms in their
Speaker 1: environment interact and generally the same way, but it's not
Speaker 1: specific to any one place on the globe. Um. For instance,
Speaker 1: a desert is always going to have plenty of extreme
Speaker 1: temperature fluctuations and not much water and not very many
Speaker 1: large plants. So the organisms in a desert are going
Speaker 1: to be adapted to those conditions, and there's a good
Speaker 1: chance they've evolved to act and looked look like organisms
Speaker 1: and other desert biomas all over the world, So like
Speaker 1: animals that we talked about earlier in this season, like
Speaker 1: that life exclusively in caves, who are generally small, with
Speaker 1: slow metabolisms and sightless, but with good hearing, touch and smell. Yes,
Speaker 1: they got that way because their surroundings required them to
Speaker 1: evolve in this direction. Another example is like in North America,
Speaker 1: we have that North American kangaroo rat, which um is
Speaker 1: an Arches National park. Um. So it evolved under the
Speaker 1: same or similar conditions to this little mouse in Austria
Speaker 1: called the Australian hopping mouse in the out back. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I really wish we saw one of those in the Arches.
Speaker 1: That would have been such a great thing to Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're really they're really adorable. Um. And so there's also
Speaker 1: this little jumping rodent in North Africa and Asia and
Speaker 1: the Middle East called the Jeroba and it's very very
Speaker 1: similar to those and so they you know, evolved similar
Speaker 1: ways of being through just living in similar types of places.
Speaker 1: That's really fascinating. So what would be the next level
Speaker 1: up from a BioMA, Well, basically it's Earth. One level
Speaker 1: up from there. It's the last level that you call
Speaker 1: it just concerned themselves with, and it's called the bias sphere,
Speaker 1: which is Earth. Um, it's atmosphere the geology and everything
Speaker 1: that hangs out on this planet. Um. Although Earth isn't
Speaker 1: like entirely a closed system. Yeah, because my beloved Jurassic
Speaker 1: Park dinosaurs were wiped out by a meteor. Right, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm not over condolence this, um exactly. And so a
Speaker 1: lot of water got here to our planet, um through
Speaker 1: just being brought here by asteroids when the planet was
Speaker 1: being formed. Um. The biosphere, like an ecosystem, has to
Speaker 1: draw a sort of artificial boundary around what we call
Speaker 1: this planet, um. And that's what ecologists got. We've got
Speaker 1: this planet, and so that's what that's what they call
Speaker 1: the biosphere. Huh. So, what are some aspects of an
Speaker 1: ecosystem or a biome that make it is what it is?
Speaker 1: It seems like deserts end up with strangely, strangely familiar
Speaker 1: features like animals and plants, regardless of where you are
Speaker 1: in the world. Ecology seems pretty complicated. But can you
Speaker 1: built it down to a couple of elements that make
Speaker 1: an ecosystem what it is? That's a tough question, um,
Speaker 1: And you're right. Ecology is difficult to study because everything
Speaker 1: you look at within the discipline of ecology is so
Speaker 1: tangled up and interconnected and everything is affecting everything else.
Speaker 1: There are biotic factors that decide what specific place is
Speaker 1: going to be like, so, um, what kind of predators
Speaker 1: hang out? What kind of animals and plants provide competition
Speaker 1: or some sort of benefit for each other like food
Speaker 1: or shelter. Wow, So these biotic factors are part of
Speaker 1: what makeup who can live and survive there? Yes? Um,
Speaker 1: And then there's also a biotic factors like nonliving things,
Speaker 1: which include temperature, moisture, sunlight, elevation. So these are the
Speaker 1: elements that have nothing to do with organisms in the
Speaker 1: ecosystem right, Um, but they influence them just as much
Speaker 1: as living things do. And on top of that, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's even hard to know where one organism ends and
Speaker 1: the other begins, or where an organism ends and the
Speaker 1: environment begins. Um. But yeah, I think you can generalize
Speaker 1: very broadly and say there are two elements that drive ecology,
Speaker 1: that make an ecosystem what it is. Can you guess
Speaker 1: what they are? M? No, But that's why we wanted
Speaker 1: you on to help exactly. And I can't wait to
Speaker 1: get to this after a really quick short break. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This is park Landia and
Speaker 1: today we're talking with our researcher Jesslyn Shields about ecology.
Speaker 1: So right before the break, you asked us what two
Speaker 1: elements drive ecology? You left us stumped because we're trying
Speaker 1: to retain this and really really pack it in. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a hint and I bet
Speaker 1: you're going to guess what they are on like the
Speaker 1: next fifteen seconds. Perfect. Let's take a really extreme place
Speaker 1: like the Majabi Desert where Death Valley National Park is.
Speaker 1: Have you ever driven through Death Valley? Um? We haven't
Speaker 1: driven through Death Death Valley, but my predeployment training took
Speaker 1: place in Twin Palms in California, also own as the Stumps. Um, Well,
Speaker 1: what do you think of when you think of twenty
Speaker 1: nine Palms or Death Valley National Park? Exactly? You basically
Speaker 1: just cracked half the ecology code. So temperature, right, Um,
Speaker 1: Because animals and plants have biological requirements, mostly having to
Speaker 1: do with the enzymes that act as catalysts that make
Speaker 1: their bodies work. Never underestimate the power of chemistry, y'all. Um.
Speaker 1: These enzymes only work within a range of temperatures, so
Speaker 1: the chemical reactions that make an American pike as body
Speaker 1: work crap out, like when the temperature gets above seventy
Speaker 1: five degrees faheit. Um. Other animals like grizzly bears and
Speaker 1: yellow stone don't have internal chemistry that functions that well
Speaker 1: in the cold, so they pack on the pounds during
Speaker 1: the summer to insulate them and then they find a
Speaker 1: nice warm place to hibernate over the winter. UM. So
Speaker 1: you'll notice that most of the bid diversity in the world,
Speaker 1: so bidovers means um, the most of the different types
Speaker 1: of living things on this planet and live in one place,
Speaker 1: which um is the tropical places on the equator. And
Speaker 1: that's because the tropics stay nice and warm. It's a
Speaker 1: good temperature for most plants and animal animal ends times
Speaker 1: to function. Wow, what do you think the other element
Speaker 1: that drives an ecosystem is Well, if we're talking about
Speaker 1: a desert like Death Valley, which is really hot but
Speaker 1: it's also really dry, that's exactly right. Water and temperature
Speaker 1: are the two main things that decide what type of
Speaker 1: ecosystem is going to be in a particular place. UM.
Speaker 1: So the water situation also has to do with chemistry. Actually,
Speaker 1: because plants are at the base of basically every food
Speaker 1: chain on the entire planet, and because plants require both
Speaker 1: sunlight and water to photosynthesize, that's where they make their
Speaker 1: own food exactly. Um. See I paid attention in school. Yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean animals need water are to make a t
Speaker 1: P um, and so do plants. UM. A t P
Speaker 1: is an enzyme found in all living things that carries
Speaker 1: energy around on ourselves. So in biomas with very little water,
Speaker 1: like the desert and the tundra, the plants will be
Speaker 1: smaller and fewer and farther between UM, and as a result,
Speaker 1: so all the animals. So what about like rainforest type
Speaker 1: environments like Olympic National Park. Well, Olympic National Park is
Speaker 1: a temperate rainforest. Um, so you're gonna have like lower
Speaker 1: temperatures than you would like in the Amazon rainforest. The
Speaker 1: Amazon is real warm and um. Olympic National Park has
Speaker 1: like a like plenty of water. So um, A lot
Speaker 1: of animals and plants and fungi and all kinds of
Speaker 1: things are gonna want to live there, but not quite
Speaker 1: as many as like around the equator. Gotcha, Um, there's
Speaker 1: not enough room in the tropical rainforests for all the
Speaker 1: animals and plants to live there. So organisms adapt to
Speaker 1: the place where there's some space open. And the crazy
Speaker 1: thing about this planet is there's literally something living and
Speaker 1: almost every nook and cranny on this planet. UM. I
Speaker 1: think that there's one place that there was a paper
Speaker 1: that just came out that there is a geothermal spring
Speaker 1: in Ethiopia that they couldn't find anything, not even little
Speaker 1: extreme of file micro organisms. UM. If you think about
Speaker 1: the way that our planet, life on the planet evolved,
Speaker 1: like it was pretty crappy place to live for a
Speaker 1: really long time. So you know, like things are good
Speaker 1: at living all sorts of places, like even in Yellowstone
Speaker 1: and those like crazy UM and that crazy volcanic environment
Speaker 1: is just like things are living everywhere. That's um. And
Speaker 1: speaking of you'll notice when you look at a globe,
Speaker 1: the three four of the planet is covered with salty water. Um.
Speaker 1: You really don't want to live there, but some things do. UM.
Speaker 1: Since water availability is an issue in the ocean, marine
Speaker 1: biomas differ in things like temperature, pressure, oxygen content, light availability,
Speaker 1: all kinds of things like that, UM, but water is
Speaker 1: not generally a problem for them. UM. So basically that's ecology.
Speaker 1: Insert shrucking emoji from me. That's a lot to go over.
Speaker 1: I mean that was just like a what a role
Speaker 1: one of knowledge and excitement. Um, yeah, for sure. We
Speaker 1: went over so many amazing lessons and this is just
Speaker 1: psychology one o one, Yeah, this is just the beginning.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to park Landia, a show about national parks.
Speaker 1: Park landis a production of by Heart Radio, created by
Speaker 1: Matt Carouac, Brad Carouac and Christopher has e otis produced
Speaker 1: and edited by Mike John's. Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis.
Speaker 1: Our researchers Jecelyn Shield. A special thing goes out to
Speaker 1: Gabrielle Collin's Crystal Waters and the rest of the Parklandia
Speaker 1: crew and Hey listeners. If you're enjoying the show, leave
Speaker 1: us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps other people
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Speaker 1: us on social media as well. Check out our photos
Speaker 1: from our travels on Instagram at parkla India pod and
Speaker 1: join in on the conversation in our Facebook group Parklandia Rangers.
Speaker 1: From our podcast my Heart Radio, visit the heart Radio
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Speaker 1: and as always, thank you for listening.